August 22, 2025 • 36 mins
Kelly and Chip get curious (and a little cheeky) about what our bodies reveal without us ever saying a word. From the truth about eye contact to whether “resting face” really sends the wrong message, they explore the everyday signals we all miss—and how to spot them. Inspired by their recent chat with expert Adrianne Carter, this is body language decoded in a way that’s equal parts fun, relatable, and surprisingly useful.
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HOSTS:
Kelly Henderson // @velvetsedge // velvetsedge.com
Chip Dorsch // @chipdorsch
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Oh, good morning, sunshine, good morning. I have been on
a string of morning podcasts, and it's it feels very like, well,
let's see how it goes. Let's fuck around and find out,
you know, because I'm.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Funny both holding our coffee.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
As I say that, we're both sipping on our coffee.
I actually enjoy it because it just gets my day going,
you know. And also there's not all the things that
happen throughout your days, so then you're going into a
recording at the end of the day like stressed or
anything like that. But my brain just does not fire
exactly the same in the morning, like sometimes you know,
you're just having that moment where you can think the word,
(00:50):
but you can't get it to come out of your mouth.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
I've been up for a couple of hours, so I'm
hoping my brain is turned on. It's crazy how fast
two hours. Like I woke up, I was like, oh,
I have two hours, and then I was like, wait,
I have five minutes. Where the fuck did all that time.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Go In the morning. I know, my boyfriend makes fun
of me because like, if we have to be somewhere
by nine, He's like, so you need to get up
at five thirty because I am such a like I
want to have the slow morning. I love a slow morning,
and if I don't get my slow morning, it just
kind of throws my whole day off. So because I
have like rituals, you know, like I wake up, I
(01:26):
do a meditation, I do my guasha. What is It's
like a stone that you massage your face. So I'm
trying to think of the massage your face was to
get your limps to drain. It's like if you know
when you wake up some mornings and your face just
looks swollen, it's just backed up fluid basically. So it
(01:47):
really also kind of like sculpture face. And you know,
I've been off botox, as I was telling you guys,
so I haven't done it. I think it's been like
eight eight or nine months, is what I ended up
figuring out. And there's a lot of different things happening
to me my skin. But that's okay, Like I'm just
I'm trying to adjust. I also just needed to reset,
like I'm not sure I'm never gonna get botox again.
It's just more of that. I needed it all to
(02:08):
kind of fade out, to have a fresh start. So
I've been doing things like fish you're working with Yeah,
kind of see where I'm at at forty three. So
I've been doing face tape at night, guash it in
the morning. I do this little like face gym, these
exercises also, So I'm sipping all my coffee doing all
the things, and my boyfriend's like, okay, so i'll see
you in two hours.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
We need the video of you doing your face exercises.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Oh god, it's so embarrassing. I swear. I don't know
if it's placebo effect or what, but when I'm doing it,
I swear it does tighten everything up and kind of
like wake up your face in a way.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
I mean it would make sense like your face is
like forty seven muscles or something like how do you
know that? Because I listened to your podcast or maybe
it was in it, because maybe it was sin your podcast,
maybe it was her Ted talk.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Oh the body language experts. Yeah, oh interesting, okay, yeah,
and your.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Face can make sixteen hundred, Like it can make sixteen
hundred I think facial expressions.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
What kind of stats guy are you today?
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Ollow statistician over here?
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Wow? But if we do interviews are I'm sorry podcast
because I'm not interviewing. We do podcasts in the morning.
Chip turns into status.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
I've got my clipboard ready.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Yeah yeah, but that's why I started doing the face
isn't it interesting to think about? Okay, so when we
want to tone our bodies, we do what.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
We work out.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Yeah, right, you lift weights, you exercise, you walk, you run,
you whatever. But in our face it just started to
dawn on me. I'm like, but in my face, I'm
injecting something to freeze my muscles, So what happens to them?
You know, It's like what happens to muscles that you're
not using, They go into actual atrophy.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Us, it started to dawn on me of how weird
it was this method, Like is it ultimately long term
actually helping our muscles? I mean, I think it's probably
helping our skin with wrinkles, but I don't know. So anyway,
I'm trying out the face gym stuff to see kind
of what happens if I do it consistently. I was
doing it consistently like back in January, and I'm telling
(04:21):
you it was very interesting to see in the face
tape too. I'm not opposed to any of this now,
So we'll see. I don't know. Maybe I'll get botox
like once a year instead of I was getting it
like every two or three months. That's just too much.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Oh that's a lot.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Yeah, well it's fucking expensive for one.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Now I'm mind starting to wear off. So you got
to see what I want to do. Yeah, I only
do it in my forehead though, been around my eyes things.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
You're doing stuff right now that people can't see. Watching
so I can see his wrinkles. Yeah, I guess you
got to watch on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
But the statistician needs to make some updates. It's actually
forty three muscles and ten thousand facial expressions.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
That's still a lot that you're pretty close. Forty seven
forty three, forty three muscles in our face. Interesting. Well,
let's just get into that now, because this is a
really good transition. I love that you tied it into
me not getting botox. But we did talk about that
in the podcast. On Wednesday's podcast, I had body language
experts Adrianne Carter. I always want to say, Adrian Adrianne.
(05:22):
She's British, so.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Okay, it makes sense.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Adrian Adrian Adrian Calza. I watched too much Loveday yeah,
so she was on. It was a fascinating conversation. If
you guys haven't listened yet, that was one of my
favorite podcasts I've done in a while, just because I
found her so intriguing. But the things that she was
talking about were just about the day to day life
(05:46):
ways that we're communicating with each other all the time
with our facial expressions, our body movements, and we don't
know it, you know, we think communication just involves words,
and that's literally at maybe fifty percent maximum.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
I mean, think about a baby, they don't have.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Them exactly, and they're You said, you can't not communicate.
I loved that, Yeah, you can't not so should. We
really talked through some different things like how to tell
if people are lying, but also the impact of botox
and all this plastic surgery like facelifts are huge right now,
it's such a buzzword. So she said, all of that
(06:22):
is really impacting how people can read your face. And
the interesting thing is is when you can't move your
face or if people can't read your face, they want
to be away from you, like instinctively, we don't want
to be around people that we can't read. So I'm
sure it's like a safety thing within our body. But
I thought that's so interesting about our culture as a whole, Like,
if we're doing all these things to freeze our face,
(06:44):
are we deterring human connection in a way?
Speaker 2 (06:47):
You know? So anyway, it's truly interesting. Yeah, yeah, that
probably maybe that's why I'm single. It's the botox.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Has to be stop getting botox already. God, that has
to be it.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Here.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Oh boy, Well we want to talk about that too.
But Chip and I were kind of just talking through
the day to day ways that body language is impacting
us that we're not even thinking about, and just to
kind of bring them into our awareness. We have some
questions we were going to ask each other and see
how they play out, because it is fascinating to think about.
I don't really think about my face as this big communicator,
(07:24):
but it makes total sense when I actually think about it,
because I am not good at not expressing how I feel. Like,
it's really difficult for me to show up to something
where there's this underlying feeling and I'm gonna be like, hey, right,
we're also.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Good at spotting it too. Like I've definitely had moments
where I've been out with Kelly, and then I'll get
the call later that night and be like, Hey, what's
going on with you? And I'm like, what do you
mean She's liked you weren't the same today?
Speaker 1 (07:53):
I just read everything.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Well.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
That was what was really interesting for me to listen
to Adrian because she was talking about the connection between
emotional intelligence and being able to read people. And I
don't even think about it, but I am reading all
the time, and like, I think it is because I'm
such an emotional person and I'm so in touch with feelings,
you know, Like I can't explain it, but I walk
(08:15):
into your room and I sense things, so like you
could be saying you're fine, and I'll be like, no,
you're fucking not, Like I'll know, yeah. And I think
certain people just have that skill set or whatever you
want to call it. I don't know, but she was
talking about it in ways that I think you could
train yourself to learn more to be more aware. I
mean she went to school for this, which I thought
(08:36):
was an interesting to think about that class, Like.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Who's the teacher for that?
Speaker 1 (08:39):
I don't know? And what do you do in it?
Like it was very fascinating to think about for me.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
You just look at pictures all day and you're like
mad happy lying.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Her eyebrow lifted one point two centimeters or something. She
must be thinking she hates you.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Well, I wonder, you know, before we get into it, like,
think about when you're preparing to go to core.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Well, I don't typically prepare to go to court.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Well, I mean I haven't either, but you know I
watch TV and people go to court all the time.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Oh okay, but like are we talking about like dateline
or where?
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Well, yeah, I mean, wouldn't it be like, wouldn't it
be smart for lawyers to like study this too, to
be able to read faces or how to coach their clients, Like, Hey,
you do this thing with your eyebrow that we need
to work on, like because it is a tell and
like you might not even be aware that you're.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Doing it, or you're sitting with your arms crossed, you're
doing it right now. And she talks specifically about that.
She was like a lot of times that one gets
misread because I believe you're just doing it right now
because it's comfortable.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
It's comfortable.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Yeah, but she's said all the time, Yeah, And she
said a lot of people misinterpret that as closed off.
I actually have always heard that if you're closing your
arms like that, you're trying to block out other energies.
So maybe you're sensing my energy too much.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
You're like, no, it's actually my I think I'm just
doing it because my chair isn't that comfortable, and it's yeah,
you have to lean forward or across your arms back.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Yeah, yeah, and that's what she said. She's like a
lot of people want to read more into that one,
but in reality, oftentimes people are just sitting that way
because it's comfortable.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
What's also, it's kind of like a trope of being mad,
Like in the movies, they're always like, yeah you bed,
you know, like the arms crossed mom, like golding a kid.
But no, this is actually just comfortable for me.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Okay, I wonder if.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
It's like there's also some sort of like if you know,
obviously I'm sitting in my own home, I'm comfortable whatever.
But if you're out at a club, like holding yourself
close or something like if you're.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
In a crowded space walking energy.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Yeah, but also like hugging yourself, you know, I don't.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Think of Yeah, that's true. I do do that in
the morning. See, that's another thing Hugglebaddye think about when
you're in a fight and you're sitting across She said,
sitting across from someone is actually the confrontational position to
be in, which I thought was so fascinating. Like, if
you're in an argument with someone, she says, a lot
of times, it's better to sit next to them so
you're not interpreting the body language as a whole nother
(11:11):
realm of communication, right, because if you're trying to work
through it and someone's pissed, they might be sitting with
their arms crossed, or they might be giving off an
energy with their face like scowling or frowning like you
are right now, And if you're sitting next to them,
you wouldn't necessarily absorb that part of the communication. You're
going to actually listen to what they're saying.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
I hope that they're telling you the truth, because if
you're not looking and they've got their lying face on
up or whatever.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Wasn't that interesting?
Speaker 2 (11:38):
It's so wild. Like when we were prepping for this,
Kelly was sending me some ideas and I was just like,
I'm so not aware of a lot of the things
that my body.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Does yeah, Well that's why we're going to ask these questions. Yeah,
because it's a lot about your own communication with your body,
not just like other people. I wanted to touch really
fast because you said the thing about lawyers. I thought
about too. She said, poker players are obviously the best
at controlling their body language because they have to be.
But think about like criminals and stuff. I was I
(12:10):
was posting about how to spot a liar that she
basically taught me, and I'm thinking, I'm also just helping
liars get to be better liars? Is this what I
want to advertise?
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Well, I mean, think about like the Jeffrey Dahmers and
those kind of sociopaths of the world that are like,
are able to get away with the same thing over
and over and over again for a long time. Like
I mean, I wonder if there's something about them being
somewhat cut off emotionally and their body doesn't even work
the right way.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Yeah, she said. In the podcasts that asked her that,
I said, I know you mentioned poker players, but what
about like sociopaths, psychopaths, serial killers, And she said, well,
often for them, the reason it's not being communicated with
their body is because they're not actually feeling it, Like
they don't feel the emotions that we assume they would
feel from killing someone, right, Like that.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Regular person build the build up to killing someone, like
going to the bar to meet them or whatever.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Yeah, that they can do wild.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
But what's wild is that they're also able to turn
on the like I mean, in Jeffrey Dahmer's specific case,
like he was able to go out and turn on
the charm and like meet guys at bars to convince
them to come home or to have him go home
with them. But then like doesn't have access to the
other emotions when you're like chopping up a body and
(13:28):
putting it in your freezer.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
I don't think he probably felt anything with that either,
other than it was a means to the end of killing.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Them, unless he was like it was like a sexual
arousal thing and that's all he felt was that side
of things. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
I love that this podcast has turned into.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Jeffrey Today on a very special blossom.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
You love to do that blossom love blossom. All right,
So let's go through some of these questions because I'm
curious what your answers will be. What's the biggest tell
when you're lying or uncomfortable. And do you think other
(14:11):
people notice?
Speaker 2 (14:13):
You know, it's funny because this isn't necessarily a facial expression,
but I turn red and I get blotchy if I'm lying,
I get like blotchy skin, and you.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Do, especially on that. Yeah, interesting, what do you think
it is? It's like your body is rejecting the lie.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Yeah. I've never, like even since I was a little kid,
Like my sister is a really fucking good liar, Like
it is her life is like built on a house
of cards. It's crazy. And I watched her lie, you know,
all the time as a kid, and I would try
to do it and then like an hour later I
would come bawling to my mom and tell on myself.
(14:51):
So I've never been a great liar.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Not a good liar either.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
I can definitely think of like great scenarios to lie,
even though I've studied improv. When it comes to real
life shit, Like, I can't even be in a bar
and like make up a fake job about myself. I'm
just like at a certain point, I either will get
blotchy or I'll just start laughing.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
So yeah, usually it's like I'll laugh, But the blotchy
thing is like it happens more often, like when it's
like a serious thing that I'm lying about, or like
I know I've heard somebody and I'm trying to like
soften it or whatever, like and I don't know if
that's just my body being like just be honest, you know,
like it's so much harder on your bar. Yeah, yeah,
like because I probably on a cellular level, it must
(15:36):
lying must do something to us.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Well, you must have to disconnect or disassociate or something
from feelings. And I think both of us, for the
astrology folk out there, we're both by these moons, and
I do think that that plays into it, Like I
think we're too sensitive. Like I cannot lie and not
feel guilty. I feel guilty as fuck everything I've lied.
I'm like you were all have to come clean or
(15:59):
I just can't do it, Like I literally can't do
it in the moment. So then I'll break down and
cry and just tell the truth because I don't. I
don't want to hurt people's feelings. But I also am
like that feels so far from like who I am.
I guess I can't feel good about it. I don't
know how do people sleep at night? Like I can't
get I just really don't understand.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Yeah, when you were saying that I don't want to
hurt someone's feelings, it made me think of the saying
the truth hurts, and we're so quick to say that,
you know, because it's true, Like, sometimes the truth is
going to hurt you. I feel like for both parties,
it's actually the healthier thing to do, even though it's
not might not be easy and might not be what
(16:41):
anyone wants to say or hear. But I feel like,
in terms of going and putting your head down on
the pillow at night, having the truth or saying the
truth is always much better for your body as a whole.
I'd be splotchy going to bed splotchy.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
And you're just like fives all the time.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
All right, you wait, what's your tell?
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Oh? I just think you can tell I'm lying when
I'm doing it. I just don't think i'm good at it.
I've never been good at it. I know growing up,
I wasn't good at it. Anytime I lied to my mom,
I got busted. I mean, I just don't think i'm
very good at it in general. So I don't have
very much practice to even say to you. This is
what happens because literally, like when I lie, people will
(17:25):
be like, I don't think that's true, and I'm like,
it's not like it's just like.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
The they're so kind that they're not like you're lying.
They're like I don't think that's.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
True, or just like is that is that right? And
I'll be like, no, it probably wasn't like that. I
don't know. I'm just like, yeah, like I literally can't
do it. I think I more so get quiet when
I don't want to say the truth, right, you know,
So that's.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
When I mean, that's a great tactic, you know, if
you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything else.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Yeah, I think I probably just avoid space. Yeah, I
don't want to say the truth. But then eventually that
comes out too, So I don't know, I just don't
think that that's I've never I've literally never been good
at it.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
It's just the whole Well, you know what's funny is
when I cannot lie and I have to say a
hard truth, my eyes will well up for me. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Yeah. We talked about this on the podcast, and I
actually posted a clip about this on Instagram today. But
we were talking about eye contact with lying, because we
often associate people looking you in the eye as that's
going to be the signal they're not lying. And she
was like, it's actually the opposite, which made so much
sense to me because I've been I was taught thinking
about like ex boyfriends or whatever, but I've been in
(18:33):
multiple situations where they have literally looked me in the face,
like looked me in the eye, dead in the eyes
and said that the lie, or you know, said the
opposite of the truth, and I knew in my body
it wasn't true, just intuition or whatever, but it made
sense to me. Maybe I was picking up on the
over eye contact even as like, Okay, something's not right here.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Yeah, You're like, you don't look at me like this
when we're having sex, don't.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yeah. Yeah, I thought it was interesting to tells she
said about lying because she said the eye contact thing.
She said, people often like squench their nose up, or
they lift one shoulder, not both, but one shoulder, kind
of like a shrug situation.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Yes, for that one, interesting one, the.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Big one for me that I think I instinctively noticed,
but I didn't really realize this is what was happening.
But when people change their behavior, like if they're a fidgetter,
like they shake their knee a lot or something, and
then all of a sudden they're just sitting really calm,
They're probably lying because it's something in their body. Is
like they need to be very conscious of every move
(19:42):
they're making. So I think it's probably like paying attention
to the differences in ways people are acting. Do you
think your resting face matches your personality or do you
think people often misread you?
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Now? I think mine does because I'm generally pretty a
pretty happy person. I'm one of those people that smiles
at strangers on streets. I feel like, I like walk
around with a smile on.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Have you ever seen that meme? This is kind of
a sad tangent, but have you ever seen that meme?
It's like about white people walking and it's like you
walk by you you like whisper high to everyone walking
by you. I'm like, I fucking do that. I notice
it all the time now.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Yeah, I mean, I grew up in a small town,
so we waved at everybody too, you know. Like, but
I feel like, generally, like I'm pretty smiling even when
I'm not like actively trying to look happy. When I
give myself away the most is when I stop paying attention,
like when I get distracted because my face goes like
it's like a weird blank thing, and you're.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Right, I just go on this podcast.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
I know, yeah, because I'll get a text from a
client or something, and I'm just like, I can't do
two things at once. Fair I'm like, I should be
a lot better at it because I've had a multi
time so much.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
I don't think men are good at it.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
I'm just not good. Our friend Mary Hilliard is the
best at it. Like she can hear full conversations and
read an email at the same time, and I'm like,
I can't do that. I would read read it wrong
or hear it wrong.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
It's actually a wiring thing with women, like we. I
don't know if it's learned behavior or if it's actually
in our wiring. But I talked about it with Bonnie
Hammer a couple of weeks ago, because she was like,
that's one of the qualities that women as leaders should
be leaning into more and like taking ownership of the
fact that we can multitask because men really can't y'all
are very linear, and y'all think of one thing at
(21:27):
a time. I try to tell this to my boyfriend
all the time because he'll you know, he's a director
and so he'll be like editing some video or something
while we're on the phone, and I'm like, okay, well
I'm gonna let you go because you see it. And
he's like, I can talk to you while i'll do this,
it's just editing. I'm like, no, you fucking.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Can't you for three minutes.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
I'm like, it might be working for you, but it's
not for me. Like I'm bored over here. So and
you're in the same exact way. Yeah, I just like, ohways,
like put your phone away, turn off all your notifications
because if it comes up, you can't.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Find focus, Like I really can't.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Yeah, so that's all the male thing.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
And my face goes real blank too, like I'll be
trying to.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Act like you go maha, you start saying to huh
a lot. Yeah, so bad. I was thinking about this.
I think I get misread very often. I think I
come across as a way bigger bitch than I.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Actually, well, you're also tall, okay, which I think makes
you more noticeable. So you're I think you're being seen
by more people than you're seeing. Okay, you know what
I mean. And so, like I think that is it's
an easy way to get.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Like misread, misread. I just think it's like if I'm
thinking or processing something, I probably have a blank stare too,
and it comes off as bitchy. You know. It's also
because I'm a woman, and like it's.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
An as an easier insult. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Yes, Also, I think I've noticed this about like my job,
and so people just assume that people in my part
of the business, like the beauty world, are just vain
and cold or only care you know, just very surface
or whatever.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Right.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Yeah, we just get misread a lot because we like
hearing makeup and close. It doesn't mean we're all assholes, No.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
It's she and I talked about. I had a coworker
at a former job that every year she got in
her review with her male boss, was told that she
needed to work on her resting bitch face, like literally,
she needed to smile more.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
You could never in twenty twenty five say that, No,
she could grass.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Yeah, she probably should have and could have sued. Then
I wonder how what the statute of limitation.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Is all that six years. Trust me, I've looked.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Into sug shit well too late.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Typically, I don't know. It might be different with some things.
You could never get away with that now, So you
need to smile more, the.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Bitch, you need to stop wearing ugly jeans, is what
I should have said back.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Have you ever realized your body language was saying the
opposite of what you were actually trying to project? Have
you ever realized your body language was saying the opposite
of what you were actually trying to project?
Speaker 2 (24:22):
I think in sort of romantic situations, you know, I
always say like I want like to fall in love
and live in a rom com, Like that's what I want.
Like I can think like a screenwriter and think of
like really romantic rom COMI things to say, but then
getting them to like cross my lips is really hard
(24:43):
because it feels cheesy. So I feel like any moments
where I've like found the courage to say that, my
body language is still in the nervous phase and doesn't
move the same way as like the words are, so
it always is very awkward, which then makes me more
(25:04):
hesitant to do it. But I also think that that's
cute and rom call.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Me it is. So do you do it anyway or not?
Speaker 2 (25:12):
I mean sometimes not all the time, but it's definitely
like my body is doing one thing while I'm trying
to say something.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Else say another.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Well, I was gonna ask the question next of what
does your body do when you're nervous versus your confident?
And I think my answer actually ties into that because
I feel like people always tell me I would never
know that you were feeling nervous or you were like
I think I come across even when I'm nervous, like
I actually go more internal and so it looks outside
like very stoic when inside I'm going crazy, you know, right, Yeah,
(25:44):
part of my tourist rising energy is like we just
present very steady. So I can be feeling very nervous
and very like oh my god, oh my god, just
second guessing everything in my head, but I'll still project
this outward like confidence. I guess that's what it looks like.
I don't know, stoicism, whatever it is, steadiness. Those are
(26:06):
the things I would think about if, yeah, that I'm
feeling something different and it's projecting outward. Do you feel
like you're nervous different when you're nervous versus confident.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
I definitely I feel like you can tell if I'm
nervous because I'm generally like so all over the place
that I'm not thinking about anything but just like cracking
a joke or whatever. Right, But when I'm like put
on display, I get nervous, and I think I reduce myself.
I try to make myself smaller.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
I do the same thing.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Yeah, but I don't know if people can read that
or not. I definitely feel it with you.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
I don't think so you could. You don't, you know,
you come across more like boisterous and confident. This is
kind of why the whole topic of body language was
so fascinating to me. In talking to her, I was
just thinking, isn't it so interesting how we push ourselves
to like project something different than what we're feeling, or
to say even sometimes we'll say words that our body
(27:02):
is going to be like, yeah, you don't fucking mean that,
like right, Just the interesting piece of feeling like we
have to perform versus just being and saying and doing
everything authentically. Like, it's just very interesting, well, you.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Know, and a lot of it is subconscious too, Like
it's not like we're like nervous to go into a
party where we don't know any I'm trying to think
of like an example, like I don't love walking into
a party where I don't know who's going to be there,
like or if I already know I'm not going to
really know anyone but the host, Like I hate that.
It's not like I'm consciously like being like all right,
(27:37):
hold your shoulders back, like confidence, you've got this, Like
I don't do that, but like it all happens together
in this like weird way. Yeah. Then I think about
like you know, an athlete at the Olympics, like where
you see or even like before a major league a
major league NFL like football gameing like you see them
like getting in tune with their bodies, you know, like yeah,
(27:58):
because it all has to work together. Their mind and
their body has to be completely in sync for the
things to work. Or swimmers the way that they're so
aware of every inch of their body and they're stretching
in whatever. That's what I feel like I need to
be like when I'm going into a party, so that
it's like all in line, I feel great, boom, but
(28:19):
I you know, you start doing some stretches, calistonics, like
people are like, look at me on the law and
they're like, what is that weirdo doing?
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Okay, speaking of like morning routines and body I follow
this guy his name is Jules Horn on Instagram if
anybody wants to go look. But he's very much into
the holistic. It does a lot of like Chinese medicine,
like traditional Chinese medicine kind of stuff. And he has
this one thing that he's been posting about recently to
help you drain your limps in the morning and also
(28:48):
like kick in your metabolism. He says, you can do
these six minutes of exercises and it's equal to walking
for an hour as far as like burning calories and
metabolism and all that stuff. Because if you are getting
your fascia, I think, is that yeah, how you say it,
which is all the stuff that like is connecting our muscles.
If you get that moving and letting go of inflammation
(29:11):
and stuff, that is more productive. We just don't do
these kind of things anyway. I'm probably explaining it wrong.
Go follow hime on Instagram. But I've been doing these
things in the morning and then at night, I've been
doing this somatic work with this girl called the Workout,
which on Instagram, and she helps your nervous system calm
down through your body. But it's really helping me in
so many more ways than just I'm doing that for
(29:33):
sleep and to try to release like any additional trauma
stuff that I might have, because there's all these like
health benefits to that too, you know, like if we
hold if we hold stuff in our bodies, feelings in
our bodies, we just get inflammation, which is the cause
of all disease. So anyway, both of those things are
really helping me to like release and help my muscles
release and tension. It's amazing how it's helped my anxiety,
it is helping my sleep, But it just made me
(29:56):
think of how disconnected we are from our bodies so often,
and like that, doing those exercises in the morning and
at night, it's just putting me more in touch with
my body on all levels, like in general, walking through
the day in general, like doing anything connecting with my partner.
Like it's just it's it's amazing the ways that I
can disassociate out of my body if I'm not doing
(30:19):
stuff like that, like intentional work to actually connect to
my body.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Yeah, how long is the thing at night?
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Oh? It's like, I mean the maximum one is twenty
minutes and that you just But it's like I have
the hip program. It's a hip release program, and she
has all different kinds of programs like shoulder. I think
there's like a jaw release one. It's really really amazing.
I've it's very beneficial. I'm gonna do a different program
after I finished the hip when they're not expensive either.
I think they're like forty bucks a package. So but
(30:48):
it's just crazy that we don't talk about our bodies
and our movements and like the language that's happening just
all of the time in so many different ways. Like
we mentioned the eye contact thing, and I was in
and say, do you actually believe that eye contact is
what we think it is? Like do you believe it
can help with intimacy or do you think that it's
(31:08):
a telltale of liars? Like what's your thought on eye contact?
Speaker 2 (31:12):
I mean, I think it can be used in different ways,
and I think when liars use it as a weaponization
of what it really is. Look that looking into somebody's
soul and telling you you love them and meaning it.
There's a lot of weight to that. You know. It's
when you when you watch two people get married and
they're promising their lives to each other and they're like
(31:33):
looking at each other like losing it. Like that's real,
Like that is uncontrollable emotion that you're seeing. But I
think we all know that. So, you know, sociopaths who
want to sit and like lie to you, to your face,
that is the shield that they're using to sort of
cloak their lie. I read, you know, you know, I'm
(31:54):
a dog person. I read that making eye contact with
your dog is like to them feels like a hug.
Really yeah, which is really interesting. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Me Adrianne said on the podcast Wednesday that looking she
said she's read a study and she was like, I
don't know, I don't have enough research to fully back this,
but there's some study that says you can fall in
love with someone if you look deep in their eyes
for four minutes, like your body actually connects to them
like love. And I have done an exercise where it's
(32:26):
like you do left eye to left eye and you
do it for seven minutes, like with your partner, and
it's it's a part of like TNTRA, But it really
is supposed to connect you in a deeper way, like
your souls see each other. If you do left eye
to left eye for seven minutes straight, And I'm telling you,
seven minutes doesn't sound like a lot.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
It's a long time when you're doing so long.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
When you're doing that, and like you go through a
range of emotion when you're doing it, because you're like,
I want to look away, but then you don't want
to disconnect, and so then you have to go in
deeper to yourself and deeper with them. Like it's a
really interesting thing.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Do you like did you laugh?
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Yeah, they've done it a couple times, but like, yes,
I've laughed before, But I think you really want to
try to be present in the moment, you know, as
much as you can. It's very fascinating. And also have
you ever tried to look in the mirror?
Speaker 2 (33:15):
No, but I've heard that part of your podcast. I've
thought about doing it last night before I went to bed,
but I.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Did try it and report back to us week.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
How long is she said to try for thirty seconds
or something?
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Yeah, I mean she was saying her client had worked
up to one minute and that was like a big accomplishment.
So yeah, I think you could just set a timer
and try.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
It and then try to see how long.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
You can do it.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Yeah. Yeah, I think what she said was try for
five seconds, and if you can do that, the next day,
do six.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
I would be really interested to hear how it goes
for you. The times that I've done it, it's been
part of like a therapeutic experience, and every single time,
whether it's tied to mantras or whatever, when I'm doing it,
if I look myself in the eye, I think it's
because it actually connects you to your body. Like some
of the exercises I was just talking about, I start
crying because I think it's like you can you see yourself.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
We're good?
Speaker 1 (34:09):
I mean, maybe you know, like there's a lot of
emotions that can come up a lot of times. For me,
it's also maybe it's been because of the times I've
done it in my life, but it's been sort of
this like I look at myself and I see what
the girl has been through, you know what I mean.
Whereas like when you're living it, you kind of can
disassociate from how hard things have been or how painful
(34:30):
or whatever. Then you look in the mirror and you're like,
I see you, like this warrior that's walked through battle,
you know. Like so it's almost this deep respect in
love I found for myself. But it's uncomfortable because I
don't think we almost have that intimacy with ourselves sometimes,
which is so bizarre.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
We take ourselves for granted.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
Yeah, we really do. Anyway, I think all this is so,
I mean, we could do a million questions about this,
but we're running out of time. So if you guys
have not listened to the podcast with Adriann yet, go
check that out. I thought she was so well spoken to.
So she was just like a fun conversation that was
on Wednesday. And if you have any sort of insight
into your own experiences with eye contact, body language, any
(35:11):
of this stuff, email us at the Edge at velvetedge
dot com. You can also slide into my DMS. I'm
at Velvet.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Edge, Chip, I'm at Chip Doors. It's Chip d O
r scch. Oh.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Also, you guys can go follow our Velvet Edge podcast Instagram.
We're growing chip. We're up to like two hundred people.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Now, oh wow, look at that.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
It's so interesting. How hard it is to grow stuff
on Instagram now, Like back in the day when I started,
you just would pop off, you know, and now it's
like everyone's so oversaturated.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
But do we need to start a tickle tackle.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
I have a TikTok up for Edge podcast.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
It just clips.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
I really want to venture into substack. That's kind of
my next goal. But for to now, you guys, go
follow along on the Velvet Edge Podcast Instagram. There's a
lot more info about each podcast. And also we're going
to start doing some like tangible tools for you guys,
so you can have some takeaways to work with. Yeah, whizzes,
you know, I love like a tangible Google so journal prompts,
(36:07):
things like that. We're working on all of those things.
So go follow us at Velvet's Edge Podcast. And as
you guys go into the weekends and you're living on
the edge, I hope you always remember too
Speaker 2 (36:18):
A casual bye.
Oh, good morning, sunshine, good morning. I have been on
a string of morning podcasts, and it's it feels very like, well,
let's see how it goes. Let's fuck around and find out,
you know, because I'm.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Funny both holding our coffee.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
As I say that, we're both sipping on our coffee.
I actually enjoy it because it just gets my day going,
you know. And also there's not all the things that
happen throughout your days, so then you're going into a
recording at the end of the day like stressed or
anything like that. But my brain just does not fire
exactly the same in the morning, like sometimes you know,
you're just having that moment where you can think the word,
(00:50):
but you can't get it to come out of your mouth.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
I've been up for a couple of hours, so I'm
hoping my brain is turned on. It's crazy how fast
two hours. Like I woke up, I was like, oh,
I have two hours, and then I was like, wait,
I have five minutes. Where the fuck did all that time.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Go In the morning. I know, my boyfriend makes fun
of me because like, if we have to be somewhere
by nine, He's like, so you need to get up
at five thirty because I am such a like I
want to have the slow morning. I love a slow morning,
and if I don't get my slow morning, it just
kind of throws my whole day off. So because I
have like rituals, you know, like I wake up, I
(01:26):
do a meditation, I do my guasha. What is It's
like a stone that you massage your face. So I'm
trying to think of the massage your face was to
get your limps to drain. It's like if you know
when you wake up some mornings and your face just
looks swollen, it's just backed up fluid basically. So it
(01:47):
really also kind of like sculpture face. And you know,
I've been off botox, as I was telling you guys,
so I haven't done it. I think it's been like
eight eight or nine months, is what I ended up
figuring out. And there's a lot of different things happening
to me my skin. But that's okay, Like I'm just
I'm trying to adjust. I also just needed to reset,
like I'm not sure I'm never gonna get botox again.
It's just more of that. I needed it all to
(02:08):
kind of fade out, to have a fresh start. So
I've been doing things like fish you're working with Yeah,
kind of see where I'm at at forty three. So
I've been doing face tape at night, guash it in
the morning. I do this little like face gym, these
exercises also, So I'm sipping all my coffee doing all
the things, and my boyfriend's like, okay, so i'll see
you in two hours.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
We need the video of you doing your face exercises.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Oh god, it's so embarrassing. I swear. I don't know
if it's placebo effect or what, but when I'm doing it,
I swear it does tighten everything up and kind of
like wake up your face in a way.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
I mean it would make sense like your face is
like forty seven muscles or something like how do you
know that? Because I listened to your podcast or maybe
it was in it, because maybe it was sin your podcast,
maybe it was her Ted talk.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Oh the body language experts. Yeah, oh interesting, okay, yeah,
and your.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Face can make sixteen hundred, Like it can make sixteen
hundred I think facial expressions.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
What kind of stats guy are you today?
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Ollow statistician over here?
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Wow? But if we do interviews are I'm sorry podcast
because I'm not interviewing. We do podcasts in the morning.
Chip turns into status.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
I've got my clipboard ready.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Yeah yeah, but that's why I started doing the face
isn't it interesting to think about? Okay, so when we
want to tone our bodies, we do what.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
We work out.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Yeah, right, you lift weights, you exercise, you walk, you run,
you whatever. But in our face it just started to
dawn on me. I'm like, but in my face, I'm
injecting something to freeze my muscles, So what happens to them?
You know, It's like what happens to muscles that you're
not using, They go into actual atrophy.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Us, it started to dawn on me of how weird
it was this method, Like is it ultimately long term
actually helping our muscles? I mean, I think it's probably
helping our skin with wrinkles, but I don't know. So anyway,
I'm trying out the face gym stuff to see kind
of what happens if I do it consistently. I was
doing it consistently like back in January, and I'm telling
(04:21):
you it was very interesting to see in the face
tape too. I'm not opposed to any of this now,
So we'll see. I don't know. Maybe I'll get botox
like once a year instead of I was getting it
like every two or three months. That's just too much.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Oh that's a lot.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Yeah, well it's fucking expensive for one.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Now I'm mind starting to wear off. So you got
to see what I want to do. Yeah, I only
do it in my forehead though, been around my eyes things.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
You're doing stuff right now that people can't see. Watching
so I can see his wrinkles. Yeah, I guess you
got to watch on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
But the statistician needs to make some updates. It's actually
forty three muscles and ten thousand facial expressions.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
That's still a lot that you're pretty close. Forty seven
forty three, forty three muscles in our face. Interesting. Well,
let's just get into that now, because this is a
really good transition. I love that you tied it into
me not getting botox. But we did talk about that
in the podcast. On Wednesday's podcast, I had body language
experts Adrianne Carter. I always want to say, Adrian Adrianne.
(05:22):
She's British, so.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Okay, it makes sense.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Adrian Adrian Adrian Calza. I watched too much Loveday yeah,
so she was on. It was a fascinating conversation. If
you guys haven't listened yet, that was one of my
favorite podcasts I've done in a while, just because I
found her so intriguing. But the things that she was
talking about were just about the day to day life
(05:46):
ways that we're communicating with each other all the time
with our facial expressions, our body movements, and we don't
know it, you know, we think communication just involves words,
and that's literally at maybe fifty percent maximum.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
I mean, think about a baby, they don't have.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Them exactly, and they're You said, you can't not communicate.
I loved that, Yeah, you can't not so should. We
really talked through some different things like how to tell
if people are lying, but also the impact of botox
and all this plastic surgery like facelifts are huge right now,
it's such a buzzword. So she said, all of that
(06:22):
is really impacting how people can read your face. And
the interesting thing is is when you can't move your
face or if people can't read your face, they want
to be away from you, like instinctively, we don't want
to be around people that we can't read. So I'm
sure it's like a safety thing within our body. But
I thought that's so interesting about our culture as a whole, Like,
if we're doing all these things to freeze our face,
(06:44):
are we deterring human connection in a way?
Speaker 2 (06:47):
You know? So anyway, it's truly interesting. Yeah, yeah, that
probably maybe that's why I'm single. It's the botox.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Has to be stop getting botox already. God, that has
to be it.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Here.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Oh boy, Well we want to talk about that too.
But Chip and I were kind of just talking through
the day to day ways that body language is impacting
us that we're not even thinking about, and just to
kind of bring them into our awareness. We have some
questions we were going to ask each other and see
how they play out, because it is fascinating to think about.
I don't really think about my face as this big communicator,
(07:24):
but it makes total sense when I actually think about it,
because I am not good at not expressing how I feel. Like,
it's really difficult for me to show up to something
where there's this underlying feeling and I'm gonna be like, hey, right,
we're also.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Good at spotting it too. Like I've definitely had moments
where I've been out with Kelly, and then I'll get
the call later that night and be like, Hey, what's
going on with you? And I'm like, what do you
mean She's liked you weren't the same today?
Speaker 1 (07:53):
I just read everything.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Well.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
That was what was really interesting for me to listen
to Adrian because she was talking about the connection between
emotional intelligence and being able to read people. And I
don't even think about it, but I am reading all
the time, and like, I think it is because I'm
such an emotional person and I'm so in touch with feelings,
you know, Like I can't explain it, but I walk
(08:15):
into your room and I sense things, so like you
could be saying you're fine, and I'll be like, no,
you're fucking not, Like I'll know, yeah. And I think
certain people just have that skill set or whatever you
want to call it. I don't know, but she was
talking about it in ways that I think you could
train yourself to learn more to be more aware. I
mean she went to school for this, which I thought
(08:36):
was an interesting to think about that class, Like.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Who's the teacher for that?
Speaker 1 (08:39):
I don't know? And what do you do in it?
Like it was very fascinating to think about for me.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
You just look at pictures all day and you're like
mad happy lying.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Her eyebrow lifted one point two centimeters or something. She
must be thinking she hates you.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Well, I wonder, you know, before we get into it, like,
think about when you're preparing to go to core.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Well, I don't typically prepare to go to court.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Well, I mean I haven't either, but you know I
watch TV and people go to court all the time.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Oh okay, but like are we talking about like dateline
or where?
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Well, yeah, I mean, wouldn't it be like, wouldn't it
be smart for lawyers to like study this too, to
be able to read faces or how to coach their clients, Like, Hey,
you do this thing with your eyebrow that we need
to work on, like because it is a tell and
like you might not even be aware that you're.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Doing it, or you're sitting with your arms crossed, you're
doing it right now. And she talks specifically about that.
She was like a lot of times that one gets
misread because I believe you're just doing it right now
because it's comfortable.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
It's comfortable.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Yeah, but she's said all the time, Yeah, And she
said a lot of people misinterpret that as closed off.
I actually have always heard that if you're closing your
arms like that, you're trying to block out other energies.
So maybe you're sensing my energy too much.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
You're like, no, it's actually my I think I'm just
doing it because my chair isn't that comfortable, and it's yeah,
you have to lean forward or across your arms back.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Yeah, yeah, and that's what she said. She's like a
lot of people want to read more into that one,
but in reality, oftentimes people are just sitting that way
because it's comfortable.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
What's also, it's kind of like a trope of being mad,
Like in the movies, they're always like, yeah you bed,
you know, like the arms crossed mom, like golding a kid.
But no, this is actually just comfortable for me.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Okay, I wonder if.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
It's like there's also some sort of like if you know,
obviously I'm sitting in my own home, I'm comfortable whatever.
But if you're out at a club, like holding yourself
close or something like if you're.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
In a crowded space walking energy.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Yeah, but also like hugging yourself, you know, I don't.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Think of Yeah, that's true. I do do that in
the morning. See, that's another thing Hugglebaddye think about when
you're in a fight and you're sitting across She said,
sitting across from someone is actually the confrontational position to
be in, which I thought was so fascinating. Like, if
you're in an argument with someone, she says, a lot
of times, it's better to sit next to them so
you're not interpreting the body language as a whole nother
(11:11):
realm of communication, right, because if you're trying to work
through it and someone's pissed, they might be sitting with
their arms crossed, or they might be giving off an
energy with their face like scowling or frowning like you
are right now, And if you're sitting next to them,
you wouldn't necessarily absorb that part of the communication. You're
going to actually listen to what they're saying.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
I hope that they're telling you the truth, because if
you're not looking and they've got their lying face on
up or whatever.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Wasn't that interesting?
Speaker 2 (11:38):
It's so wild. Like when we were prepping for this,
Kelly was sending me some ideas and I was just like,
I'm so not aware of a lot of the things
that my body.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Does yeah, Well that's why we're going to ask these questions. Yeah,
because it's a lot about your own communication with your body,
not just like other people. I wanted to touch really
fast because you said the thing about lawyers. I thought
about too. She said, poker players are obviously the best
at controlling their body language because they have to be.
But think about like criminals and stuff. I was I
(12:10):
was posting about how to spot a liar that she
basically taught me, and I'm thinking, I'm also just helping
liars get to be better liars? Is this what I
want to advertise?
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Well, I mean, think about like the Jeffrey Dahmers and
those kind of sociopaths of the world that are like,
are able to get away with the same thing over
and over and over again for a long time. Like
I mean, I wonder if there's something about them being
somewhat cut off emotionally and their body doesn't even work
the right way.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Yeah, she said. In the podcasts that asked her that,
I said, I know you mentioned poker players, but what
about like sociopaths, psychopaths, serial killers, And she said, well,
often for them, the reason it's not being communicated with
their body is because they're not actually feeling it, Like
they don't feel the emotions that we assume they would
feel from killing someone, right, Like that.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Regular person build the build up to killing someone, like
going to the bar to meet them or whatever.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Yeah, that they can do wild.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
But what's wild is that they're also able to turn
on the like I mean, in Jeffrey Dahmer's specific case,
like he was able to go out and turn on
the charm and like meet guys at bars to convince
them to come home or to have him go home
with them. But then like doesn't have access to the
other emotions when you're like chopping up a body and
(13:28):
putting it in your freezer.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
I don't think he probably felt anything with that either,
other than it was a means to the end of killing.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Them, unless he was like it was like a sexual
arousal thing and that's all he felt was that side
of things. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
I love that this podcast has turned into.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Jeffrey Today on a very special blossom.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
You love to do that blossom love blossom. All right,
So let's go through some of these questions because I'm
curious what your answers will be. What's the biggest tell
when you're lying or uncomfortable. And do you think other
(14:11):
people notice?
Speaker 2 (14:13):
You know, it's funny because this isn't necessarily a facial expression,
but I turn red and I get blotchy if I'm lying,
I get like blotchy skin, and you.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Do, especially on that. Yeah, interesting, what do you think
it is? It's like your body is rejecting the lie.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Yeah. I've never, like even since I was a little kid,
Like my sister is a really fucking good liar, Like
it is her life is like built on a house
of cards. It's crazy. And I watched her lie, you know,
all the time as a kid, and I would try
to do it and then like an hour later I
would come bawling to my mom and tell on myself.
(14:51):
So I've never been a great liar.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Not a good liar either.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
I can definitely think of like great scenarios to lie,
even though I've studied improv. When it comes to real
life shit, Like, I can't even be in a bar
and like make up a fake job about myself. I'm
just like at a certain point, I either will get
blotchy or I'll just start laughing.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
So yeah, usually it's like I'll laugh, But the blotchy
thing is like it happens more often, like when it's
like a serious thing that I'm lying about, or like
I know I've heard somebody and I'm trying to like
soften it or whatever, like and I don't know if
that's just my body being like just be honest, you know,
like it's so much harder on your bar. Yeah, yeah,
like because I probably on a cellular level, it must
(15:36):
lying must do something to us.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Well, you must have to disconnect or disassociate or something
from feelings. And I think both of us, for the
astrology folk out there, we're both by these moons, and
I do think that that plays into it, Like I
think we're too sensitive. Like I cannot lie and not
feel guilty. I feel guilty as fuck everything I've lied.
I'm like you were all have to come clean or
(15:59):
I just can't do it, Like I literally can't do
it in the moment. So then I'll break down and
cry and just tell the truth because I don't. I
don't want to hurt people's feelings. But I also am
like that feels so far from like who I am.
I guess I can't feel good about it. I don't
know how do people sleep at night? Like I can't
get I just really don't understand.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Yeah, when you were saying that I don't want to
hurt someone's feelings, it made me think of the saying
the truth hurts, and we're so quick to say that,
you know, because it's true, Like, sometimes the truth is
going to hurt you. I feel like for both parties,
it's actually the healthier thing to do, even though it's
not might not be easy and might not be what
(16:41):
anyone wants to say or hear. But I feel like,
in terms of going and putting your head down on
the pillow at night, having the truth or saying the
truth is always much better for your body as a whole.
I'd be splotchy going to bed splotchy.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
And you're just like fives all the time.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
All right, you wait, what's your tell?
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Oh? I just think you can tell I'm lying when
I'm doing it. I just don't think i'm good at it.
I've never been good at it. I know growing up,
I wasn't good at it. Anytime I lied to my mom,
I got busted. I mean, I just don't think i'm
very good at it in general. So I don't have
very much practice to even say to you. This is
what happens because literally, like when I lie, people will
(17:25):
be like, I don't think that's true, and I'm like,
it's not like it's just like.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
The they're so kind that they're not like you're lying.
They're like I don't think that's.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
True, or just like is that is that right? And
I'll be like, no, it probably wasn't like that. I
don't know. I'm just like, yeah, like I literally can't
do it. I think I more so get quiet when
I don't want to say the truth, right, you know,
So that's.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
When I mean, that's a great tactic, you know, if
you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything else.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Yeah, I think I probably just avoid space. Yeah, I
don't want to say the truth. But then eventually that
comes out too, So I don't know, I just don't
think that that's I've never I've literally never been good
at it.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
It's just the whole Well, you know what's funny is
when I cannot lie and I have to say a
hard truth, my eyes will well up for me. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Yeah. We talked about this on the podcast, and I
actually posted a clip about this on Instagram today. But
we were talking about eye contact with lying, because we
often associate people looking you in the eye as that's
going to be the signal they're not lying. And she
was like, it's actually the opposite, which made so much
sense to me because I've been I was taught thinking
about like ex boyfriends or whatever, but I've been in
(18:33):
multiple situations where they have literally looked me in the face,
like looked me in the eye, dead in the eyes
and said that the lie, or you know, said the
opposite of the truth, and I knew in my body
it wasn't true, just intuition or whatever, but it made
sense to me. Maybe I was picking up on the
over eye contact even as like, Okay, something's not right here.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Yeah, You're like, you don't look at me like this
when we're having sex, don't.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yeah. Yeah, I thought it was interesting to tells she
said about lying because she said the eye contact thing.
She said, people often like squench their nose up, or
they lift one shoulder, not both, but one shoulder, kind
of like a shrug situation.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Yes, for that one, interesting one, the.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Big one for me that I think I instinctively noticed,
but I didn't really realize this is what was happening.
But when people change their behavior, like if they're a fidgetter,
like they shake their knee a lot or something, and
then all of a sudden they're just sitting really calm,
They're probably lying because it's something in their body. Is
like they need to be very conscious of every move
(19:42):
they're making. So I think it's probably like paying attention
to the differences in ways people are acting. Do you
think your resting face matches your personality or do you
think people often misread you?
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Now? I think mine does because I'm generally pretty a
pretty happy person. I'm one of those people that smiles
at strangers on streets. I feel like, I like walk
around with a smile on.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Have you ever seen that meme? This is kind of
a sad tangent, but have you ever seen that meme?
It's like about white people walking and it's like you
walk by you you like whisper high to everyone walking
by you. I'm like, I fucking do that. I notice
it all the time now.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Yeah, I mean, I grew up in a small town,
so we waved at everybody too, you know. Like, but
I feel like, generally, like I'm pretty smiling even when
I'm not like actively trying to look happy. When I
give myself away the most is when I stop paying attention,
like when I get distracted because my face goes like
it's like a weird blank thing, and you're.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Right, I just go on this podcast.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
I know, yeah, because I'll get a text from a
client or something, and I'm just like, I can't do
two things at once. Fair I'm like, I should be
a lot better at it because I've had a multi
time so much.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
I don't think men are good at it.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
I'm just not good. Our friend Mary Hilliard is the
best at it. Like she can hear full conversations and
read an email at the same time, and I'm like,
I can't do that. I would read read it wrong
or hear it wrong.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
It's actually a wiring thing with women, like we. I
don't know if it's learned behavior or if it's actually
in our wiring. But I talked about it with Bonnie
Hammer a couple of weeks ago, because she was like,
that's one of the qualities that women as leaders should
be leaning into more and like taking ownership of the
fact that we can multitask because men really can't y'all
are very linear, and y'all think of one thing at
(21:27):
a time. I try to tell this to my boyfriend
all the time because he'll you know, he's a director
and so he'll be like editing some video or something
while we're on the phone, and I'm like, okay, well
I'm gonna let you go because you see it. And
he's like, I can talk to you while i'll do this,
it's just editing. I'm like, no, you fucking.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Can't you for three minutes.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
I'm like, it might be working for you, but it's
not for me. Like I'm bored over here. So and
you're in the same exact way. Yeah, I just like, ohways,
like put your phone away, turn off all your notifications
because if it comes up, you can't.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Find focus, Like I really can't.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Yeah, so that's all the male thing.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
And my face goes real blank too, like I'll be
trying to.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Act like you go maha, you start saying to huh
a lot. Yeah, so bad. I was thinking about this.
I think I get misread very often. I think I
come across as a way bigger bitch than I.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Actually, well, you're also tall, okay, which I think makes
you more noticeable. So you're I think you're being seen
by more people than you're seeing. Okay, you know what
I mean. And so, like I think that is it's
an easy way to get.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Like misread, misread. I just think it's like if I'm
thinking or processing something, I probably have a blank stare too,
and it comes off as bitchy. You know. It's also
because I'm a woman, and like it's.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
An as an easier insult. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Yes, Also, I think I've noticed this about like my job,
and so people just assume that people in my part
of the business, like the beauty world, are just vain
and cold or only care you know, just very surface
or whatever.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Right.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Yeah, we just get misread a lot because we like
hearing makeup and close. It doesn't mean we're all assholes, No.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
It's she and I talked about. I had a coworker
at a former job that every year she got in
her review with her male boss, was told that she
needed to work on her resting bitch face, like literally,
she needed to smile more.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
You could never in twenty twenty five say that, No,
she could grass.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Yeah, she probably should have and could have sued. Then
I wonder how what the statute of limitation.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Is all that six years. Trust me, I've looked.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Into sug shit well too late.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Typically, I don't know. It might be different with some things.
You could never get away with that now, So you
need to smile more, the.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Bitch, you need to stop wearing ugly jeans, is what
I should have said back.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Have you ever realized your body language was saying the
opposite of what you were actually trying to project? Have
you ever realized your body language was saying the opposite
of what you were actually trying to project?
Speaker 2 (24:22):
I think in sort of romantic situations, you know, I
always say like I want like to fall in love
and live in a rom com, Like that's what I want.
Like I can think like a screenwriter and think of
like really romantic rom COMI things to say, but then
getting them to like cross my lips is really hard
(24:43):
because it feels cheesy. So I feel like any moments
where I've like found the courage to say that, my
body language is still in the nervous phase and doesn't
move the same way as like the words are, so
it always is very awkward, which then makes me more
(25:04):
hesitant to do it. But I also think that that's
cute and rom call.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Me it is. So do you do it anyway or not?
Speaker 2 (25:12):
I mean sometimes not all the time, but it's definitely
like my body is doing one thing while I'm trying
to say something.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Else say another.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Well, I was gonna ask the question next of what
does your body do when you're nervous versus your confident?
And I think my answer actually ties into that because
I feel like people always tell me I would never
know that you were feeling nervous or you were like
I think I come across even when I'm nervous, like
I actually go more internal and so it looks outside
like very stoic when inside I'm going crazy, you know, right, Yeah,
(25:44):
part of my tourist rising energy is like we just
present very steady. So I can be feeling very nervous
and very like oh my god, oh my god, just
second guessing everything in my head, but I'll still project
this outward like confidence. I guess that's what it looks like.
I don't know, stoicism, whatever it is, steadiness. Those are
(26:06):
the things I would think about if, yeah, that I'm
feeling something different and it's projecting outward. Do you feel
like you're nervous different when you're nervous versus confident.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
I definitely I feel like you can tell if I'm
nervous because I'm generally like so all over the place
that I'm not thinking about anything but just like cracking
a joke or whatever. Right, But when I'm like put
on display, I get nervous, and I think I reduce myself.
I try to make myself smaller.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
I do the same thing.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Yeah, but I don't know if people can read that
or not. I definitely feel it with you.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
I don't think so you could. You don't, you know,
you come across more like boisterous and confident. This is
kind of why the whole topic of body language was
so fascinating to me. In talking to her, I was
just thinking, isn't it so interesting how we push ourselves
to like project something different than what we're feeling, or
to say even sometimes we'll say words that our body
(27:02):
is going to be like, yeah, you don't fucking mean that,
like right, Just the interesting piece of feeling like we
have to perform versus just being and saying and doing
everything authentically. Like, it's just very interesting, well, you.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Know, and a lot of it is subconscious too, Like
it's not like we're like nervous to go into a
party where we don't know any I'm trying to think
of like an example, like I don't love walking into
a party where I don't know who's going to be there,
like or if I already know I'm not going to
really know anyone but the host, Like I hate that.
It's not like I'm consciously like being like all right,
(27:37):
hold your shoulders back, like confidence, you've got this, Like
I don't do that, but like it all happens together
in this like weird way. Yeah. Then I think about
like you know, an athlete at the Olympics, like where
you see or even like before a major league a
major league NFL like football gameing like you see them
like getting in tune with their bodies, you know, like yeah,
(27:58):
because it all has to work together. Their mind and
their body has to be completely in sync for the
things to work. Or swimmers the way that they're so
aware of every inch of their body and they're stretching
in whatever. That's what I feel like I need to
be like when I'm going into a party, so that
it's like all in line, I feel great, boom, but
(28:19):
I you know, you start doing some stretches, calistonics, like
people are like, look at me on the law and
they're like, what is that weirdo doing?
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Okay, speaking of like morning routines and body I follow
this guy his name is Jules Horn on Instagram if
anybody wants to go look. But he's very much into
the holistic. It does a lot of like Chinese medicine,
like traditional Chinese medicine kind of stuff. And he has
this one thing that he's been posting about recently to
help you drain your limps in the morning and also
(28:48):
like kick in your metabolism. He says, you can do
these six minutes of exercises and it's equal to walking
for an hour as far as like burning calories and
metabolism and all that stuff. Because if you are getting
your fascia, I think, is that yeah, how you say it,
which is all the stuff that like is connecting our muscles.
If you get that moving and letting go of inflammation
(29:11):
and stuff, that is more productive. We just don't do
these kind of things anyway. I'm probably explaining it wrong.
Go follow hime on Instagram. But I've been doing these
things in the morning and then at night, I've been
doing this somatic work with this girl called the Workout,
which on Instagram, and she helps your nervous system calm
down through your body. But it's really helping me in
so many more ways than just I'm doing that for
(29:33):
sleep and to try to release like any additional trauma
stuff that I might have, because there's all these like
health benefits to that too, you know, like if we
hold if we hold stuff in our bodies, feelings in
our bodies, we just get inflammation, which is the cause
of all disease. So anyway, both of those things are
really helping me to like release and help my muscles
release and tension. It's amazing how it's helped my anxiety,
it is helping my sleep, But it just made me
(29:56):
think of how disconnected we are from our bodies so often,
and like that, doing those exercises in the morning and
at night, it's just putting me more in touch with
my body on all levels, like in general, walking through
the day in general, like doing anything connecting with my partner.
Like it's just it's it's amazing the ways that I
can disassociate out of my body if I'm not doing
(30:19):
stuff like that, like intentional work to actually connect to
my body.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Yeah, how long is the thing at night?
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Oh? It's like, I mean the maximum one is twenty
minutes and that you just But it's like I have
the hip program. It's a hip release program, and she
has all different kinds of programs like shoulder. I think
there's like a jaw release one. It's really really amazing.
I've it's very beneficial. I'm gonna do a different program
after I finished the hip when they're not expensive either.
I think they're like forty bucks a package. So but
(30:48):
it's just crazy that we don't talk about our bodies
and our movements and like the language that's happening just
all of the time in so many different ways. Like
we mentioned the eye contact thing, and I was in
and say, do you actually believe that eye contact is
what we think it is? Like do you believe it
can help with intimacy or do you think that it's
(31:08):
a telltale of liars? Like what's your thought on eye contact?
Speaker 2 (31:12):
I mean, I think it can be used in different ways,
and I think when liars use it as a weaponization
of what it really is. Look that looking into somebody's
soul and telling you you love them and meaning it.
There's a lot of weight to that. You know. It's
when you when you watch two people get married and
they're promising their lives to each other and they're like
(31:33):
looking at each other like losing it. Like that's real,
Like that is uncontrollable emotion that you're seeing. But I
think we all know that. So, you know, sociopaths who
want to sit and like lie to you, to your face,
that is the shield that they're using to sort of
cloak their lie. I read, you know, you know, I'm
(31:54):
a dog person. I read that making eye contact with
your dog is like to them feels like a hug.
Really yeah, which is really interesting. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Me Adrianne said on the podcast Wednesday that looking she
said she's read a study and she was like, I
don't know, I don't have enough research to fully back this,
but there's some study that says you can fall in
love with someone if you look deep in their eyes
for four minutes, like your body actually connects to them
like love. And I have done an exercise where it's
(32:26):
like you do left eye to left eye and you
do it for seven minutes, like with your partner, and
it's it's a part of like TNTRA, But it really
is supposed to connect you in a deeper way, like
your souls see each other. If you do left eye
to left eye for seven minutes straight, And I'm telling you,
seven minutes doesn't sound like a lot.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
It's a long time when you're doing so long.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
When you're doing that, and like you go through a
range of emotion when you're doing it, because you're like,
I want to look away, but then you don't want
to disconnect, and so then you have to go in
deeper to yourself and deeper with them. Like it's a
really interesting thing.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Do you like did you laugh?
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Yeah, they've done it a couple times, but like, yes,
I've laughed before, But I think you really want to
try to be present in the moment, you know, as
much as you can. It's very fascinating. And also have
you ever tried to look in the mirror?
Speaker 2 (33:15):
No, but I've heard that part of your podcast. I've
thought about doing it last night before I went to bed,
but I.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Did try it and report back to us week.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
How long is she said to try for thirty seconds
or something?
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Yeah, I mean she was saying her client had worked
up to one minute and that was like a big accomplishment.
So yeah, I think you could just set a timer
and try.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
It and then try to see how long.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
You can do it.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Yeah. Yeah, I think what she said was try for
five seconds, and if you can do that, the next day,
do six.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
I would be really interested to hear how it goes
for you. The times that I've done it, it's been
part of like a therapeutic experience, and every single time,
whether it's tied to mantras or whatever, when I'm doing it,
if I look myself in the eye, I think it's
because it actually connects you to your body. Like some
of the exercises I was just talking about, I start
crying because I think it's like you can you see yourself.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
We're good?
Speaker 1 (34:09):
I mean, maybe you know, like there's a lot of
emotions that can come up a lot of times. For me,
it's also maybe it's been because of the times I've
done it in my life, but it's been sort of
this like I look at myself and I see what
the girl has been through, you know what I mean.
Whereas like when you're living it, you kind of can
disassociate from how hard things have been or how painful
(34:30):
or whatever. Then you look in the mirror and you're like,
I see you, like this warrior that's walked through battle,
you know. Like so it's almost this deep respect in
love I found for myself. But it's uncomfortable because I
don't think we almost have that intimacy with ourselves sometimes,
which is so bizarre.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
We take ourselves for granted.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
Yeah, we really do. Anyway, I think all this is so,
I mean, we could do a million questions about this,
but we're running out of time. So if you guys
have not listened to the podcast with Adriann yet, go
check that out. I thought she was so well spoken to.
So she was just like a fun conversation that was
on Wednesday. And if you have any sort of insight
into your own experiences with eye contact, body language, any
(35:11):
of this stuff, email us at the Edge at velvetedge
dot com. You can also slide into my DMS. I'm
at Velvet.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Edge, Chip, I'm at Chip Doors. It's Chip d O
r scch. Oh.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Also, you guys can go follow our Velvet Edge podcast Instagram.
We're growing chip. We're up to like two hundred people.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Now, oh wow, look at that.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
It's so interesting. How hard it is to grow stuff
on Instagram now, Like back in the day when I started,
you just would pop off, you know, and now it's
like everyone's so oversaturated.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
But do we need to start a tickle tackle.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
I have a TikTok up for Edge podcast.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
It just clips.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
I really want to venture into substack. That's kind of
my next goal. But for to now, you guys, go
follow along on the Velvet Edge Podcast Instagram. There's a
lot more info about each podcast. And also we're going
to start doing some like tangible tools for you guys,
so you can have some takeaways to work with. Yeah, whizzes,
you know, I love like a tangible Google so journal prompts,
(36:07):
things like that. We're working on all of those things.
So go follow us at Velvet's Edge Podcast. And as
you guys go into the weekends and you're living on
the edge, I hope you always remember too
Speaker 2 (36:18):
A casual bye.
Host
Kelly Henderson
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