August 15, 2025 • 51 mins
In this episode, Kelly and Chip follow up on Kelly’s inspiring conversation with Bonnie Hammer—legendary media executive and author of 15 Lies Women Are Told at Work… and the Truth We Need to Succeed. From the leaders who challenged us in all the right (and sometimes wrong) ways, to the leadership traits that inspire us most, we unpack the lessons that stick. Plus, we share our favorite “truths vs. myths” from Bonnie’s book and why they hit so hard in our own careers and lives.
All Things Bonnie: bonnie-hammer.com
Watch us on YouTube! (By clicking this)
Email us: theedge@velvetsedge.com
Follow the podcast on Instagram: @VelvetsEdgePodcast
HOSTS:
Kelly Henderson // @velvetsedge // velvetsedge.com
Chip Dorsch // @chipdorsch
Follow Velvet's Edge on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/velvetsedge/
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
I still feel so good in this filter. Whenever I
opened up my zoom, I was like, oh there, I kind.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Of forgot that it stay the setting stay.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
I didn't because it adjusted. It made my skin look smoother.
If you guys want to see go watch us on YouTube.
And you really should watch this part because I feel
like Chip is about to lose his shit? Is that right?
I can't.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I mean, I kind of lost it already. I can't
believe that I didn't notice. It's been there for a day.
I didn't notice until right now.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
I oh my, do you want to tell the listeners closed?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
I mean, Dax Shepherd liked my comment. I don't even
know what else to do.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Okay, so you commented on one of Dax's pictures, and
if anybody is new to the podcast, there has been
a long term obsession for Chip. With Dak Shepherd, you
were the probably number one fan of the armchair iPhone chair.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
I'm an arm cherry.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
An arm cherry, yeah, I don't even know the name. Okay,
he was definitely an arm arm. I can't say that
word armchair. Arm cherry. And you have always had kind
of like a friend crush. I would say, it's not
even like it's not like you like have a crush
crush on Dax. No, I mean his friends.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
I want to be his friend so bad. Yeah, and
he'd look, they bought property. They have a house in
like Hendersonville. I think now like they've spent a lot
of time in Nashville this summer.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Me and all the old listeners know because you've been
talking about.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
But they're finally here. And he keeps posting stuff. But anyway,
he posted a photo the other day of they had
Shack on their podcast, and it's a photo of him,
Monica and Shack. And you know, Dax is a big dude.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Shack is a giant.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
He makes he makes Dax look like it's his little son,
and then Monica looks like a Shack's holding a doll
and and I just commented, I'm going to tell my
kids this is a I.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Like, do you think it was him or do you
think someone would do social media?
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Okay, I think it's him. I believe it's him.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Have you gone and seen if he likes everyone's.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
He does not like everyone?
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Oh my god? So what's next for you? I mean,
what's next?
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Oh? I already taught so his Kristen's publicist. I know
because he works in music stuff and I've told him
about my man crush and he was like, oh, next
time they're in town and I'll introduce y'all. And I
haven't taken him up on it, but like I might
have to send send and be like I've already done it.
(02:40):
You were friends.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Services will no longer be needed. Yeah, that actually introduced me.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Yeah, I like, let's make it happen.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah, Well, maybe you're just laying the groundwork, because, like
you know, sometimes if someone hits you up on social media,
you don't know if you can trust if they're not
like a freak or a weirdo or a stalker or something.
But like you're laying the ground where so maybe he'll
notice you and then a friend can comment and introduce you.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Guys, he'll be like, you're the dude that made the
AI comment.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
That was for sure he'll remember daxcellent is However, many
comments a day followers, Yeah, that was the funniest comment
I've ever read.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Ever.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Ever, it only.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Has one like to like No, none of the other
people that follow him have liked it.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
But it only has the most important like do you
care about anyone else.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Isn't it funny that like the seratonin that just him
like hitting somebody, probably not him. Maybe it's highly likely
that it's not. What that does to us.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
The hit, Yeah, they like, we'll talk us through it.
What's happening to you right now?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
I mean, I'm just excited. I was like, holy shit,
you know, like and obviously I work in this industry,
so I get it too, and I really truly like
believe it. Probably it might not be him. It's probably
a social media person doing right. But I did notice
I look to see if it's like every comment and
it's not. But that doesn't mean it's him. I just
(04:11):
want to believe that it's him.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
I was gonna say, you already look immediately deflated as you.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
But you know, I think it's harder for like someone
who is just like a fan of whatever celebrity, whether
it's a singer or whatever, to believe that it's not them.
You know.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Yeah, Well it was so interesting to me, Like back
when I was like way more active on social media
and I was on the show and stuff, like people
would always say, I know, you're never gonna see this
in your DMS, and I was like, I can see everything.
I see it, I don't like, I don't know, and
I mean I don't have millions of followers obviously, but
like if you're actively because I had a blog at
(04:48):
the time too, so like you are engaging with people constantly.
And yes, I had an assistant that helped me run that,
but for the most part I saw pretty much everything
like you're you see the comments coming in and the
DM's coming in. Some of them you're not able to
respond to you But like you don't miss stuff as
much as I think people think you do.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
I always check my random requests, not like I'm not
constantly checking them, but the program knows the difference between
like a legit message and hey, by my yarn, you know,
like the weird They separate those out, so you know,
I take the time to like look for this for
people that are just sliding in ship. I might meet
(05:29):
my husband that way.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Well, look, your best.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Liked my comment, So why is my husband responding.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Exactly, he's next, He's next to kill it. Maybe Dax
will introduce you to somebody. Maybe that would be a
full circle moment.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
God, and then Zach's could Dax can marry us?
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Oh my god?
Speaker 2 (05:48):
He's speaking things into the universe.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Yeah, okay, well there you go. Anyway, Chips Day is made.
Maybe week, maybe life, maybe year. I don't know all
of the things you were. We were text a lot
today and obviously we talked earlier because you did go
listen to the Bonnie Hammer podcast and if you guys
haven't listened to the Wednesday podcast yet, I had former
vice chair of NBC Universal, Bonnie Hammer on. She was amazing,
(06:14):
Like I learned so much. I was kind of geeking
out because she got on the podcast and she obviously,
like I was on a show that was under an
NBC Universal umbrella, and so we did a lot of
stuff with them, like I would go do different events
and stuff like that, and she knew who I was
from the show, and she actually gave me really good
feedback because you know, like when you're on a reality
(06:36):
TV show, I don't think that you feel all the time.
Maybe it's me because I know so much of the
backside of the entertainment industry, Like I didn't necessarily feel
like that was the most respected industry within TV. You know, like, right,
does that make sense? Like there's a big actors and
movie people and producers and all these things, and sad
reality TV can sometimes look at as like you're sort
of like do they respect me at all? That just
(06:58):
was so validating to me because that experience. Obviously I've
had not the most positive feedback or like, I don't
speak about it as positively, and I've always kind of
looked at it as, oh God, that really was not
the right move, but had taught me so much. After
my conversation with her, I was like, you know, there's
no mistakes in life, Like then, the things that happen
(07:21):
in our careers and our lives and our relationships, they
do all lead you to the next thing if you
use them for growth. And that was such a growth
moment for me on all kinds of different levels. And
I can look at it now and say that, and
then having that feedback from her, a person who I
was just kind of in awe of honestly, like I
kind of was geeking out. It's kind of funny who
(07:42):
will really like shock me and make me nervous to
talk to, But she was one of them. And it
was because I just respected her career so much, and
then after our conversation I even loved her even more.
So what did you take from the conversation.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
First of all, I kind of expected her have lived
in Los Angeles, but she's in New York her just
because I can envision the NBC Universal building in Studio City,
So I was thinking she was LA based. But then
I'm listening to her, and she reminded me so much
of my first boss, whose name was Vicky, at Atlantic
Records in New York, and she was a New Yorker.
(08:15):
And Vicky had been at at the time I started
working at Atlantic in ninety four. She had been working
at Atlantic at the point at that point for twenty
some years and had come up in that business. And
she was like a tough cookie, like a lot of
people were really scared of her. But like I was
her assistant, so I got to know her really well
on a personal level too, and there was a sensitive
(08:36):
side to her that I got to see. I don't
know that it was as thought out as the way
that Bonnie talked about it, because you know, Bonnie said
on the in the podcast that she the pandemic happened,
she had a lot more free time because she wasn't
commuting four hours a day, and that gave her the
opportunity to write the book because she had the time
to think about it, and it was a really it
(08:57):
was she wrote it from a more reflective place. Some
of the stuff that she learned, she didn't realize she
had learned until she sat back and reflected. Yeah, so
I think that's probably the case with Vicky too, Like
she didn't know exactly why she was operating the way
that she was operating. But I think she operated similarly
as Bonnie did. Yeah, as a leader, I mean it
(09:20):
was like she was tough, you wouldn't cross her, but
she also was sensitive. She cheered us on like a
win for me was a win for her. She promoted
me several times, like when someone tried to poach me,
she wouldn't let me like. She made me feel really important.
She made me feel seen. I mean, I call her
my second I'm still friends with her. I called her
my second mother. Yeah, we still text and share memes.
(09:42):
And I think my career would be very different if
it weren't for her. So listening to the Bonnie thing,
it made me love and miss Vicky and fall in
love with Bonnie. And you know, it's like I've had
a lot of I know that the book is specif Women,
and she said that she wanted it to be more broad,
(10:03):
but her publisher was like, we have to market this,
so it's like, you make it about women. But I've
had a lot of female leadership in my career, so
I can't speak that strongly to like what it's like
to have a male leader, because most of my bosses
have been female. And even when I was at Atlantic,
most of the department heads were female. Like the c
(10:25):
suite was all men, but like the all the SVPs
were women, which was really interesting. That is because at
the end of the day, they're the run ones. The
SVPs are the ones running the show. You know, the
C suite is making a lot of the decisions that
inform them on how to run the show, but like
the day to day operations are happening from the the
(10:48):
SVPs down and so I, you know, I have a
ton of respect for women in power. I've learned a
lot from them. So it was awesome to hear Bonnie's
journey in her evolution and what she's leaned from that.
So I really liked her. Like I texted Kelly this
morning and I was like, you should ask her to
be your mentor.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
I mean that would be a dream truly. I mean,
I just have so much respect for her and the
same that you're saying. I learned so much just in
that conversation in general, one from the perspective of how
she got to where she was and just the striving
and having to you know, kind of develop that tough skin.
And I think that's a mixed bag these days because
there's so much going on with HR. We were talking
(11:31):
about this a little bit on the podcast. I don't
know if you heard her say that, but like in
twenty twenty five, obviously you can't get away with a
whole lot like saying the things that we used to
hear all the time, or acting the way that we
used to act or be treated. And that's good on
so many levels, Like there were things that needed to
be put into place, and there is this other part
(11:52):
of it that's like, well, people are getting so soft
that everything offends everybody, you know, and we have we
don't know how to take constructive criticism anymore. And in
Bonnie's explanation of that, I actually realized that, you know,
I've faced a lot of those kind of bosses in
my younger days or even like my basketball coach when
(12:13):
I was in high school, and it did help me
to really kind of get more disciplined, learn, you know,
how to keep going with my drive to really stand
in my truth on certain things. And so there is
sort of this thing to say for the tough boss
that's going to challenge you. I guess I've posted something
today even about her talking about that piece of it, like,
(12:34):
if you just have just the cheerleader, it's not always
even to your benefit, because you need feedback, you need
constructive criticism, you need all of those things. And so
I loved hearing about her journey through that with her mentor,
but then also her reflection back after being a leader
for so many years, and how so much of what
(12:55):
she ended up ending her career with was kindness, empathy,
the team mentality, you know, wanting to work together and
build each other up, giving constructive feedback, but also making
sure to also honor and value the people and what
they were giving to the team, you know. And I
just think that's such a holistic approach to leadership that
(13:16):
is very difficult to find but also very difficult to
encompass as a leader.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Totally. Yeah, Yeah, I mean I loved the moment that
she said something about for the women on her team.
She let that if they had kids, they didn't have
to come into the office on Friday. Yeah, and you no,
it was just like in general, like if you had children,
you did not have to work on like you had
to get your work done. Also, she was like, if
(13:42):
you need to go to a soccer game, go to
the soccer game and don't feel like you need to
lie to me and act like you're in a meeting. Right,
tell me you're going to the soccer game, but get
your work done. And it fostered like she was like
that didn't scare people away, it actually made them want
to stay. And you know, because that falseter's a team mentality.
You know, it's like, if your goal as a leader
(14:06):
is to only have your team be successful when they're
in your building, you're not looking at them as human
human beings. You're not looking at them as whole human being.
You're looking at them as an ingredient to get your
goals done. And I think if you shad a point,
if you can think of them as a whole human
being that needs to show up and be excited to
(14:26):
be there and be excited to be a part of
your team and to help you succeed by them succeeding.
Then that sounds like a ship that rises with the tides,
you know, Like.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Yeah, well, it probably depends on the kind of person
you are, though, because if you're a workaholic who just
only cares about work, who doesn't have a family, who
doesn't want to do anything but build the business, that's
probably what you're going to expect from the people who
work under you. But if you want to be treated
as a whole person, then you do have to kind
of take that into consideration with your employees. But it's hard,
(14:57):
you know, it's hard. We were talking before the podcast
and and when I've had assistance who work for me,
or the team that was running the Velvet s Edge
blog with me, and stuff like, it is very difficult
because as the leader, you have so much more on
your plate than anybody realizes, and you're managing people, and
you're managing all of like those factors that you just mentioned,
(15:19):
like if somebody gets sick or whatever, all the responsibility
falls on you. So I just remember feeling like, wow,
this is a lot harder to balance being kind, being considerate,
of another human being and also getting my needs met
that I need them to do from their job, you
know what I mean, and what I needed off my
plate so that I could do my part of the job.
And at the end of the day, when you're in
(15:41):
the leadership position, you do get a lot more praise maybe,
but also so much more falls on you. So it's
like I see the hard line, and like, I think
her mentality of the team winning is probably helpful for
even that piece that I just said, because then maybe
people want to work a little bit harder or make baby.
You don't have to get all the praise or the
(16:05):
detriment stuff, do you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Like I mean, it's kind of like, you know, to
give it a sports analogy, because you know, everyone knows
I love sports ball. It's like if the quarterback only
wanted to run the ball all the time and didn't
throw it to anybody. It's like if the quarterback only
(16:30):
wanted to run the ball all the time, it didn't
throw it to anybody, right, you know, like that was
his tactic to win every game, versus being like I've
got an amazing defense, I've got an amazing offense, and
I'm going to let all of them work to the
best of their ability so that I can be the
best quarterback I can be. Then it's exciting because everyone's
contributing to the win and.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
At the end of the game, everybody, everyone gets celebrated.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Yeah, so you know it's it is true. Analogy it
could be can you believe that you're a quarterback?
Speaker 1 (17:03):
I mean a new quarterback probably because you probably do.
They're cute, but I'm like you, I love their uniforms
and that was a lot.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Yeah, but yeah, it's like I'm sure most people have
had that fucking asshole boss that you work for that
you just do because you don't want to put up
with their reaction to anything. And when I think back
to those moments, if I'm placating a boss because I'm
scared of a reaction, I am just going to get
(17:30):
it done, but I'm not going to do it to
the best of my ability. I'm going to get it
done so that I don't have to deal with a
negative reaction. But I would much rather have someone look
at my work and be like, holy fucking shit, you
knock this out of the park. And in order for
me to do things at the best of my ability.
I have to rely on my teammates because I can't
(17:52):
do everything myself and any and sort of in any situation,
so I would have to have have relied on everyone
and help to manage everybody to like get this thing
to be amazing. So then the boss freaks out and
then it is a team win. Yeah, Whereas if you're
dealing with that asshole, I'm like, I'm just gonna get
this fucking done and move on, and then where's the
(18:15):
heart and that that's not success.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Yeah. I mean, I don't know if you remember this part,
but she was talking about her mentor I cannot remember
his name, maybe Barry.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Barry Diller Diller, okay, yes, And.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
He was talking about a show she presented about the
psychic medium John Edwards, who I also love. I'm dying
to get him on the podcast. Maybe I'll get Bonnie.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
To call your mentor, Bonnie, I know.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
But yeah, so I think that she was talking about
she had brought the show idea to him with John Edwards,
and he challenged it. And what I liked about that,
in correlation to what you just said, is him challenging
her and then her standing up for it gave her
more investment in it.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Right.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
I find that I'm more motivated if I feel really
invested in something and if I feel like I'm just
going through the motions to please another person. Like you said,
it's hard for me to find as much passion, excitement,
drive because you're just full it's a paycheck then, you know,
whereas like if you feel some ownership to it at
(19:15):
the end of the day, there's so much more connection.
You're so much more passionate, you give so much more
of yourself, your energy, all of the things, and then
it's so much more satisfying at the end too. And
I felt like she really kind of had learned the
ways to get that herself, but also to give that
to her team, right.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Yeah. And I also think too, like if the first
way that you look at something is the only way
that you're willing to do go about doing it, whether
it's a television show or writing a script or baking
a fucking pie, Yeah, then you're probably not looking for
the full experience of like learning through your experience of
whatever it is that you're doing, because you're not willing
(19:54):
to be challenged. And that's where you learn and grow
is when you hit a wall and you're like, wait, oh,
I need to think about this differently, or I need
to look at it from another side, or maybe this
isn't the right fit or whatever it is, because otherwise
you're just looking for the easy out on everything and
that's no fun, you know, like right, well, at the
end of the day, of course, we want our lives
(20:16):
to be easy, but like challenges are not necessarily a
bad thing. It's like where we get better.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
I think we get a little off with work. Is
like I remember when I first remember when I first
graduated college. You know, I think you're in college and
everyone's kind of like pumping you up, like oh, you're
gonna be so great at that or you you know,
have all these wins, and by the time you graduate,
there's all these people under you too. And I was
in a sorority, so you kind of like are the
mentor for the younger kids. And I remember like getting
(20:44):
to Nashville and being like, why does nobody give a fuck?
Like what like I'm amazing guys, don't you know.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
You know, like I have a little sister.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
But then I think it's like we have this expectation
when we're younger that you're just gonna walk in and
know how to do every thing and like be as
amazing as you were at school and in these smaller ponds,
and then you get out into the big pond and
you realize, like the order you get you start to
kind of go, I don't know shit, you know, Like
I just that has been the biggest helper in my
(21:14):
life is to realize that life is this ever evolving
wheel that we're on and you're just kind of always
growing and always learning, and you're never going to know everything. Also,
like you're not expected to as much pressure as we
put on ourselves. Like that wouldn't be right either. So
I guess where I was going with that was just
to say that if you can't take constructive criticism, then
(21:35):
you're never going to grow, and also like you're only
holding yourself back from where you want to go, probably
if you can't look at it that way. But what
I do really believe is that there's a difference between
like an abusive environment and constructive criticism. So and that's
what's weird about this time frame where it's like in
twenty twenty five you can't say anything, but back in
(21:56):
the day you could probably say too much. So I
don't know, I don't really know which one's better. I
wish we could find some middle ground somewhere.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Well, I mean it's just as simple as like you idiot,
Like that is a dumb idea would never fly today, you.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Know what I mean? Should That's like, if anyone's giving
an idea, is that actually helpful feedback? Probably not? No,
But I also think finding the holes in it?
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Yeah, But I also think too that like that is
also just a very easy, like first way to phrase
something like that's stupid, like let's let's look at it
this way also does not mean like you're stupid, see stupid? Yeah,
and look, trust me, I probably would too. But I'm
you know, thinking back to like the way that people
(22:42):
used to talk and the way that people talk now.
I survived that, you know, like it's not and it doesn't.
It didn't breed that in me. I would never use
that language. I also have, you know, prided myself while
not being stupid. I also have suffered from like wanting
people to think that I know how to do everything
or that I know everything. And I hate the feeling
(23:04):
of not knowing everything, even though I know it's realistic
to not. But yeah, I mean the whole hr piece
of it is really interesting because I do think it
is forcing people to be different, a different kind of
leader now, and it's breeding softness in the workplace. I mean,
I I used to fear getting fired every day, and
(23:27):
I don't know why I don't have that fear now,
but as a younger person, and I think maybe it
was because, like I was doing exactly what I knew
I wanted to do, so it was like the idea
of like losing the opportunity was what drove me to
try and be excellent.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Well, you're also at a different stage of your career though,
because now that is true established so like if you
lost this job, you would have connections I would find
out there, whereas back in the day you don't. You
probably like that was your one shot, right, oh right.
I just think there's a balance, Like I think it's
as a leader, what I really grow from is someone
who has high expectations of me, that does have that
(24:06):
gives me feedback when I don't meet the expectations, but
also values me enough and I know it, so they're
telling me also when it is you know, you're getting
the positive feedback as well, or the value is shown
to you in some different kind of way, like you're
acknowledged in some sort of way. Like I think we
all need that, like we need to feel seen and appreciated. Yeah,
(24:29):
but I do think we're still kind of sorting out
I think what the line is because I think it's
like we've swung to this opposite end of the pendulum
right now, and we need to kind of figure out
how are we going to benefit ourselves the most with growth,
with actually like getting the job done, and with not
just being totally abusive to people so that they're insirable
(24:50):
state in their life.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Well, really, truly constructive criticism would be delivered in a
way that recognizes that you're capable of actually doing they're
asking you to do. You just haven't done it yet,
So you know, it's not like that's why I'm Constructive
criticism wouldn't be like you fucking idiot, you're never going
to do this, get out of my way, Like that's
not constructive. But to be like that's stupid. Why don't
(25:14):
you think about it this way? It's not necessarily an insult,
it's just the wrong choice of words.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Yeah, you know what I mean like stupid, though, what
do you keep going back?
Speaker 2 (25:22):
I don't know, like you.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Really want to get in idiot and stupid somewhere so
we see them on a box.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
I've been called that at some point. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Well, I think you can give feedback in the ways,
like challenging is not bad, especially if you if you're
in a leadership position, like if you've been in the
business longer than me and you see a hole in
something I'm doing, I do appreciate that, Like I actually
appreciate feedback. But I'm a person that also really wants
(25:50):
to grow and so like if there's something you see
that I could do better, I always want to know,
Like that's just how I've been wired forever. But when
I don't understand and you're just being a dick about it,
that's when it's like, what does this help anybody? Because
then I get too scared to show up at all,
Like it's like I can't.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Oh, that's so funny. All, yeah, that brings up. I
just started watching do you know the show the Rehearsal?
Speaker 1 (26:14):
I do not.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Okay, it's a second season is on HBO Max. I
just started watching it last night. I couldn't watch the
first season. It's it's with this comedian named Nathan Felder.
The second season it is very different. The first season
was each episode was about a specific subject. This one
is he studied airplane crashes throughout history, and he noticed
(26:38):
from the data and the flight recordings that the thing
that they all had in common was that the co
pilot was too scared to speak up to the captain.
And it's so interesting, like apparently he like gets his
pilot license throughout this whole season. But he found this
guy that used to run the NTSB and it has
(26:59):
gotten him and he's like an older gentleman and he
says something to him and he was like, Yeah, I
think that there there's a lack of training in the
I don't know, pilot school or whatever it is where
these people are in the shit that they don't focus
enough on the co pilot also being in command on
the plane. Yeah, And I mean they they have tapes
(27:20):
where they listen to like what was happening in the
cockpit before these crashes, and like some of them are
it's like, you know, a male captain and a female
co pilot where he's like saying things that are really
like out of line, and it's diminished her to wear
the fact that she's too scared to say something when
her fucking life is on the line.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
That's insane, it's crazy. I get it. I mean, I
do believe that it can be crippling when you're That's
why I'm saying the words like the words idiot and
stupid are probably not right.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Yeah, I get that.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Yeah, because it just like that would make someone feel
like I don't want to speak up because I'm going
to be reprimanded in this way that makes me feel
so terrible, Like why would I want to keep walking
into the fire, you know. So I think anyway, I
think all of this is way trickier to navigate than
we're making it sound right now, which is why I
(28:12):
had so much respect Just to circle back to Bonnie
for her, like, I have so much respect for someone
in a leadership position who is a great leader, because
I think that is such a high skill set that
not everyone can do. I really do, Like, yeah, it's
it's very admirable to me to see a really great leader.
(28:32):
So she was one of them.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Also, it also sounded like, you know, when Barry would
challenge her, he didn't always win, like.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Well, challenge if the challenge wasn't.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Just to be challenging, it was because he saw holes,
and then it would take It would mean that she
would have to go think about her position and she
could come back and challenge him. And there were definitely
times where she won the.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Fight absolutely, And I think that's that's the important piece, right,
Like if in your copilot analogy or story, it's like
if the co pilot had spoken up and Ben had
positive feedback from that sometimes or it had been the
right thing and they said, yeah, thanks for saying that
you're right or whatever. That's the thing that then when
the shit hits the fan or they're noticing something that
(29:18):
could actually be potentially dangerous, they would then have the
confidence to stand up.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Right.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
So anyway, it's a fine line to walk. If anyone
out there is listening that's in this leadership position, mad
respect to you. I think that it's a huge, huge
position and it's a lot easier said than done. So
Bonnie is amazing. If you do, you want to go
check out that podcast that was up on Wednesday. She
wrote a book called Fifteen Lies Women Are Told at
Work and the Truth We Need to succeed. And I
(29:47):
love the way she structured this book. I mean, we
talked about it a little bit on Wednesday, and I
gave you the you guys, the one example, But Chip
and I went through all fifteen and we picked our
two top favorites each because I want you to see,
first of all, how she structured this book, so you
can know what the layout is. But these things wrung
so true to me because they are so easily said
in our world, like they're just common phrases that we
(30:10):
hear all the time and don't even notice we're hearing them.
And I think she is so right that they're inaccurate often,
you know, so she kind of busts the myths and
then she comes in with these truths. So I want
to know, Chip, what were the two that really stood
out to you, because let's talk about them.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
First of all, all of them rang true, okay, But
the number six is fake it till you make it,
And the truth to that is face it till you
make it, okay. And the reason why that one spoke
to me was because I am a people pleaser and
I often catch myself faking it until I make it.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
So saying yes me.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Yeah. I even will catch myself in a conversation where
someone's like, you know, blah blah blah, Linda Johnson, you
know Linda, right, and I'll be like, yeah, I don't
know fucking Linda, Like I don't know why I said yeah,
you know what I mean, Like it makes no sense
to me. But then I'll go fucking google Linda Johnson
and figure out who she is. Linda. I'm like, good
(31:21):
old Linda. I love that curly hair, and they're like
she's bald. Yeah, but yeah, I mean, I catch myself
faking it until I make it, and it has worked
for me in the past. But I also think that
I can see how in those moments, I'm not growing
like it doesn't I'm avoiding the uncomfortable of just being like, no,
(31:41):
I don't know who's Linda, and because it makes me
look like I don't know something and like, of course
I can't know every person in the world. So I
loved seeing this because it's like I feel like I
got a lesson from it, like face it until.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
You make It's what's because it's like what.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Good is faking it? Like even in my example with
Linda Johnson, like so then now i go away from
the conversation and I've learned who Linda Johnson is, Like
what's the value in that? You know?
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Also, you're setting yourself up for so much embarrassment later
because what if that person goes to Linda and they're like, oh,
you know chip doors and they're like, oh yeah, so you.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Know, I do think the moral of that Linda Johnson's
story is like it is okay to not know everything.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
You do not have to know everything.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
You don't have to fake anything. You can be I mean,
it's like there was a time when I didn't know
how to walk, I didn't know how to ride a bike,
you know, I didn't know how to wipe my own ass. Yeah,
and that's fine. You learn these things and if you
face things, you can face them with curiosity and passion
and zest and actually like walk away learning something rather
(32:50):
than just faking your way through a conversation just to
feel comfortable.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Yes, And like it's so interesting because as you were talking,
I was thinking about people that I respect in business
in general, and they are the most curious people. Consistently
across the board, the people that I respect the most
stay curious, so they're always learning, They're always willing to
learn more, and that comes from asking questions. And it
(33:17):
also it's like that doesn't have to mean either that
you're bad at your job. Like if there's certain things
that you don't know, you can say I don't know that,
but I'm going to go research that and get back
to you or like that was one of the tricks
somebody taught me along the way, was just to say
I'm going to go look it up and I'll get
back to you. Like, we don't have to do everything
with such urgency all the time that I think we
feel pressured too, So like it was helpful to me
(33:39):
to have that little saying kind of in the back pocket,
because yeah, you don't want to look stupid or that
you don't know what you're doing. I'm like that because like,
for instance, with my job with hair and makeup, there
is a new makeup product or a new hair product.
I mean every fucking.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
Day, right one, There's a million every day.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
There's just so many, and so it's impossible to keep
up with all of the new products that come out
all the time. But I used to feel like if
I didn't know every single one in someone especially someone
like not in the business, Like just a regular person
that wears makeup would bring something up to me about
how much they love it, and I didn't know what
it was. I was like, oh my god, that would
(34:18):
show that I am not good at my job or something.
But the reality is, it's like I have now been
doing this job so long that I have found so
many of my favor products.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
Does that work for you?
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Yeah? And like the truth is is, like recently even
this has come up with some people in my agency,
like cause we'll be co collaborating on something like working
together on a job, and they'll ask me questions about
my mixtures and I was like, oh my god, I
created my own fucking makeup, so right, It's just crazy
that I would let that make me feel so down played,
(34:50):
if that makes sense, instead of being like, oh, I've
actually made my own concoction that I love using on
guys and this is why, and then talking about it
from that experience or learn thing about something new that
might do the same thing as this concoction that I created,
you know, like it's just this ever evolving thing. And
I think the more that we can feel confident in
our own skin and stay curious to keep learning more
(35:12):
because every job is ever evolving as far as I know,
at least in this age. It is then yeah, like
just what does she say, face the what is it?
Speaker 2 (35:21):
Face it until you face it.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
Until you make it. I just love that because it's
like very I think that's a very inspirational way to
do it. Okay, what's your other one?
Speaker 2 (35:29):
My other one is myth number nine, which is good
things come to those who wait, Okay, And the truth
to that is great things come to those who act.
And I can from experience say that that is just
the truth. There is the truth. I mean, I was
just a little kid in Personet's Virginia who had a
dream of working in the music business. And I didn't
(35:52):
know how to do that. And that's funny because she
talked on the podcast about follow your dreams, but she
said the truth that is follow your opportunities, right, And
I had a dream, but I had no idea how
I was going to make it happen. And then I
met somebody who opened a portal and I followed the opportunity.
So that one really rang true to me. But this
is also it plays into that because I could have
(36:14):
just met that person and not. You know, she said, hey,
do you want to do this thing for me? And
I said, yeah, I'll do that. And I was willing
to do anything I could for free. I took action
to make my dream come true, and then suddenly it
wasn't a dream, it was a reality that I then
had proven to myself that action makes things happen, right,
(36:35):
And so now I live a life of action when
it comes to my work. Like I mean, it's if
there's a client that I want to sign or work with,
like I can't just sit there and wait for them
to discover me. I'd have to go after them. Or
if there's an opportunity that I want for one of
my artists, I can't wait for that opportunity just to
come to the artist. I have to go make that happen,
(36:57):
whether that's through relationship building or force. And so it
is funny to think that like we sit back and
say good things come to those who wait.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
I know, I wonder who created that.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
I mean, that is the most bullshit line I've ever
heard in my life. And you know how many times
I've probably said it, you know, just as like aquip
to say, like you know, someone will be like I
never thought I would get married at fifty six. I'm like,
good things come to those who wait, No.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Because you could have you don't have a journey before
that that's not heard to that place or him to
that place or whatever. I think, Yeah, I think good
things come to those who wait. Could be a good
mentality if you are working really hard on something day
to day and it's not quite clicking at first, right,
you know, like keep going and see but it's.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
But that's action, that's not waiting.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Exactly, That's what I'm saying. It's like I just don't
know that. Like you can ever sit back or sit
on your couch and just think something's going to PLoP in.
It's like we used to say this about dating apps.
Remember it was like none of us really wanted to
be on dating apps, But how else do you meet
people nowadays? And if you're just sitting at home bitching
about not being in a relationship, like that ain't the
(38:08):
way you're going to find it. What do you think,
like some stork is going to come drop off Prince Charming,
like that's how this works.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
No, I really like that too, And I've had a
very similar experience in my life, and I love what
you mentioned, like the working for free, being willing to
show up and do the hard work, because I think
that's how we came up in the industry. And that's
a bit different now too, Like there's an expectation that
you should just rise to the top because you can
go viral on TikTok these days, you know, And like,
(38:35):
I think that's kind of playing out interestingly though, because
it doesn't. It's it is backfiring in a lot of situations.
So just being willing to like follow what opportunities come
your way is very That's one of the biggest pieces
of advice. I would say, Well, I.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Think anything, any successful business or you know, effort, whatever
it is, has to be built on a strong foundation.
Things that happen really quickly tend to be fleeting. And
that's not to say, like, look, if something great starts happening,
don't lean into it, but know that like along the way,
(39:12):
you have to like think about what the foundation is. Yes,
whether it's a career, it's a piece of art, a relationship,
you know, like how many times have we fallen in
love the first love at first sight? Like yes, but
if you if you just lean into that and don't
like put anything underneath that it's not going to be
(39:32):
a long term relationship.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
Yeah, for sure, the foundation has to be there. I
agree with you, Okay, mine where myth number two says,
don't just know your worth, the truth being work on
your worth. I find that to be really helpful because
people say that's like one of those flippant statements. Right,
it's just like, well you got to know your worth,
and it's just like what does that even fucking mean? Like, right,
(39:55):
what does it mean? And do I not have my worth?
Like I just remember back in the day like well
I know my worth, you know, or I whatever. But
the truth was is like I didn't really I didn't
really have like a true sense of confidence and worth.
I feel like I operate and under this kind of
false confidence or whatever like you were talking about even
(40:16):
with acting like you know everything, you know, like all
of those things are fleeting and they're not real, and
so if they get challenged, it can break you. Whereas
if you're working on your worth and looking at that
as something that's ever evolving as well, Like you know,
there's times where it's just like you're so full and
confident and you know deep in your bones your worth,
(40:39):
like you just know it and you're not going to
sway from that. And then life happens and that can
change and challenge that, and you've got to keep working
on it. And that's for me, it's a daily thing,
like I start every morning with these certain affirmations that
I do, and that's been so helpful for me and
I needed it. Like it's not like I just wake
up every morning just loving myself easily like that is.
(41:00):
It's a challenge for me sometimes and so and I
think people are always surprised to hear that, but I
think it's just like that we're all human and we
all have you know, in my astrology that makes sense
if anything about your Kirn wound.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
But I also think too, it's like I don't think
that we can just know our worth, Like I think
you have to literally work at everything and take note
of your worth along the way, because if it's as
flippant as like know your worth, then if you can't
(41:34):
describe what you're worth, like why you are worthy in
certain situations, then you don't know your worth. And if
you've worked really hard at your worth and continue to
like grow your worth, then you'll be able to be
like you need me for these reasons.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Yes, And also it's not necessarily because of the accomplishments
or the job title or the blah blah blah, like
the external thing, Like your worth comes from such a
deeper place inside and it's because you fucking woke up
in the morning and your name is Chip, like that
makes you worthy. But you have to believe that, like
(42:14):
you have to know what you bring as a human
being and what your insides are and what you can
offer someone else. And then yes, like you're saying, if
someone asks you, you can tell them all the ways.
But it's also like it doesn't matter if they agree
with it or not, because you're so worthy within yourself. Yes,
but I used to think that if I built up
(42:36):
all this stuff, then I would feel worthy.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
That was that was it.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
If I could just get to this place, then I
would feel like I belonged or I would feel like
I was worthy of being here or whatever. And you know,
just like the more imposter syndrome type feelings. And now
it's like I think when you if you lose things
or you do that, and then it goes away, Like
I think everyone probably experienced a love of that during COVID.
(43:01):
I know we all did, because it was like your
identity was challenged when your work goes away, It's just
like who am I then? Because I've been defining myself
by all these things, and so that was a big
time where I had to really start working on my
worth because I couldn't build it from external validation, like
(43:22):
the worth had to come from within. And so anyway,
that to me, that one was a really good one
because it's just said so flippantly, and I just don't
think that we can just poof know our worth like
it's a day to day thing and you just work
on it and it ebbs and flows throughout your life,
and there's gonna be highs of it, and there's gonna
be loads of it. There's gonna be days where it's
easy and days where it's hard, and that's normal.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
You know what. And sometimes you might not be worthy
of that moment and that's okay.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
Yeah, Oh you're saying like if you got an opportunity.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
Or whatever that moment is, you know, it's like there
are going to be moments where it's like you aren't
worthy and recognizing the fact that you aren't worthy probably
is to say.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
Say that though it's not that you're not worthy, because
you're always worthy. Like worth to me is something of
like a not external thing. But maybe you're not the
right fit, or you're not that's not the right position.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
Or you might not feel worthy, And I think it's
important like to recognize that so that you know that
you're making the right decisions for you, not because you
want external validation from something. It's kind of what I
was getting at, Yeah, because that does like that shows
that you recognize your worth to be like, I really
appreciate the offer, but that's not for me. You know,
(44:34):
that's knowing your worth, and it might be like that
I'm in over my head there. I don't want to
do that.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
When I started dating after not the current relationship I'm in,
but like after the last relationship I was in, I
had hit such a bad low, maybe the lowest I've
ever been in my life after that relationship because it
was so toxic for me. But I remember going into
dating and there was this guy who was so perfect
on paper, Like any girl that met this guy would
(45:02):
just be like, oh my god. He was very handsome,
he had a really great job, he was so nice
to me, He was funny, he was like easy to
talk to. Everything seemed like it was there, and I
could not click with him like in me, like I
think he clicked with me, but and it's like on paper,
we should have clicked perfectly, but I didn't feel the thing,
(45:23):
you know. And I remember that being such a moment
of worth for me to know that I was worthy
enough to walk away from this guy who everybody would
probably be like, what the fuck You're gonna walk away
from that?
Speaker 2 (45:36):
Right?
Speaker 1 (45:36):
But that didn't mean that I was like that I
wasn't good enough or I was messed up or whatever.
It just wasn't the right fit. And like I didn't
let it challenge who I was. We were just on
different journeys in life, you know, Like does that make sense?
Just that was just That's been one of my big
experiences in dating, is like just really understanding like I'm
(45:59):
worthy of the greatest love of all time just because
I'm me and you are too, just because you're you.
And we don't have to like compromise or not listen
to ourselves, go against whatever because the external forces are
there that would make us be like, oh, you got
to do this. You can't walk away from that, You're crazy.
And then now, look, I'm in the happiest relationship I've
(46:21):
been in, So it was the right move. There you go,
which kind of leads me to my next one, which
is trust your gut is the myth, and then the
truth is check your gut. And I love this one
because I think it gets thrown around so often. And
I'm such a big talker about intuition. You guys know this,
but like, there's so many things when you're learning how
(46:41):
to trust your intuition that can be factors. And the
more I've learned about trauma and triggers and all of
these pieces that come into our brains, like psychologically, it's
so easy to confuse intuition and like a traumatic trigger, right, So,
I think it's thrown around in our culture so often
(47:03):
while I'm just just trusting my gut, I'm just gonna
follow my gut, And you're not always operating from a
sound place, like if you haven't done a lot of
your work, or even if you have, like we're all
so human that sometimes there can be these things coming in,
like old narratives you didn't know you still believed, or
a past experience could have gone terribly with something similar,
(47:25):
So you're acting out of that place because your body
hasn't you know, released that trauma and that's not actually
what's happening in this situation. And so I always have
found it to be so helpful as a part of
like since I've been working on myself journey, which is
I don't know, over a decade now, of like the
therapy and doing twelve step work and stuff, but like
(47:46):
checking myself with someone like that, like checking yourself with
someone who you trust, who is a safe place, who
you can run by you know what your gut is
really screaming at you, and then make the decision. Like
I just really found that to be such an important
part of my life and my journey. And I think
so often if we're just operating in a silo, we
(48:09):
are gonna make some decisions that are led by false narratives,
by trauma from the past, and it's going to fuck
up current situations. And I've been on the other side
of that too, and that is a wild experience because
you're like fighting a demon that isn't even there for you,
you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (48:27):
Totally well, also too. Let's not forget that, like fear
and excitement feel the same thing in our gut, and
so sometimes when we think that something really scary is coming,
it's actually excitement, but we are talking ourselves out of
it because we don't think we're worthy or whatever it is.
And so you have to check your gut because you
(48:48):
can be like, wait a minute, why is my body
telling me not to do this, or is my body
telling me to do this? Exactly that point when I
read it, like, it didn't hit me really until you
started talking about and I was like, oh, no, it's
really fucking clear, like because I do think that, like
there are a lot of people that would just like
feel their gut and be like, no, I can't do that.
(49:10):
It's I'm not good enough, I'm not smart.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
Enough, i don't know enough, which is the narrative. Yeah,
that's not it's not reality, and it's yeah, so it's
just helpful. I will say it's very very important to
make sure you have a safe person though, because I've
also been in the scenario where you're running things by
someone who has a motive and real that isn't obviously
going to be good for you and your gut can
be saying something else and you're like, well, who do
(49:34):
I trust and whatever, and like it is important to
be able to trust yourself. And then also the more
I've practiced this, obviously, like I can kind of recognize
the difference now more, you know, like I just think
you can. You can start to really trust yourself a
lot more the more practice you do. But yeah, I
just find I found that to be a really good
point of not just blindly trusting your gut all the time,
(49:57):
because sometimes you could be operating from a place of
narratives and old triggers or things like that. So yeah, anyway,
Bonnie Hammer was an amazing guest. The book is called
fifteen Lives Women are Told at Work and the truth
we need to succeed. I also am like Bonnie and
believe that men could benefit greatly. You really enjoyed the podcast,
so I'm assuming you would really enjoy the book as well.
(50:19):
So this is not just for women. We're saying men
and women can go read. I think she just speaks
from the perspective of a woman obviously, and like she said,
her publisher wanted to market it more so. But you
guys can reach out to us at the Edge at
velvetedge dot com. You can hit me up on Instagram.
I'm at Velvet's Edge, Chip, I'm at chip Doors.
Speaker 2 (50:38):
It's Chip d r scch.
Speaker 1 (50:41):
And did you notice that I got the velvest Edge
podcast Instagram up?
Speaker 2 (50:45):
I sure did.
Speaker 1 (50:47):
We are up and running, so go check us out there.
It's going to be a lot more intensive with just
more information about the podcast. So about each podcast, We're
gonna have like different prompts for you guys on there,
different things that you can kind of work with, like
tangible tools that we get. You know, I love a
tangible tip. I'm always saying that on the podcast. So
those will also be on that social media, just to
(51:09):
make it more streamline, make it more easy for you
guys to access and to keep up with us and
this podcast and to engage with us, Like we just
need a space that we can all talk to each other.
I feel so at Velvet Edge podcast is that Instagram
and go follow and talk to us and message and
let us know what you guys are thinking and feeling
(51:30):
and living and yeah, okay, I'm going to stop now
here and all the things as you guys go into
the weekend and you're living on the edge. I hope
you always remember too.
Speaker 2 (51:40):
A casual I'll bye.
I still feel so good in this filter. Whenever I
opened up my zoom, I was like, oh there, I kind.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Of forgot that it stay the setting stay.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
I didn't because it adjusted. It made my skin look smoother.
If you guys want to see go watch us on YouTube.
And you really should watch this part because I feel
like Chip is about to lose his shit? Is that right?
I can't.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I mean, I kind of lost it already. I can't
believe that I didn't notice. It's been there for a day.
I didn't notice until right now.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
I oh my, do you want to tell the listeners closed?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
I mean, Dax Shepherd liked my comment. I don't even
know what else to do.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Okay, so you commented on one of Dax's pictures, and
if anybody is new to the podcast, there has been
a long term obsession for Chip. With Dak Shepherd, you
were the probably number one fan of the armchair iPhone chair.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
I'm an arm cherry.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
An arm cherry, yeah, I don't even know the name. Okay,
he was definitely an arm arm. I can't say that
word armchair. Arm cherry. And you have always had kind
of like a friend crush. I would say, it's not
even like it's not like you like have a crush
crush on Dax. No, I mean his friends.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
I want to be his friend so bad. Yeah, and
he'd look, they bought property. They have a house in
like Hendersonville. I think now like they've spent a lot
of time in Nashville this summer.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Me and all the old listeners know because you've been
talking about.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
But they're finally here. And he keeps posting stuff. But anyway,
he posted a photo the other day of they had
Shack on their podcast, and it's a photo of him,
Monica and Shack. And you know, Dax is a big dude.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Shack is a giant.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
He makes he makes Dax look like it's his little son,
and then Monica looks like a Shack's holding a doll
and and I just commented, I'm going to tell my
kids this is a I.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Like, do you think it was him or do you
think someone would do social media?
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Okay, I think it's him. I believe it's him.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Have you gone and seen if he likes everyone's.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
He does not like everyone?
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Oh my god? So what's next for you? I mean,
what's next?
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Oh? I already taught so his Kristen's publicist. I know
because he works in music stuff and I've told him
about my man crush and he was like, oh, next
time they're in town and I'll introduce y'all. And I
haven't taken him up on it, but like I might
have to send send and be like I've already done it.
(02:40):
You were friends.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Services will no longer be needed. Yeah, that actually introduced me.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Yeah, I like, let's make it happen.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah, Well, maybe you're just laying the groundwork, because, like
you know, sometimes if someone hits you up on social media,
you don't know if you can trust if they're not
like a freak or a weirdo or a stalker or something.
But like you're laying the ground where so maybe he'll
notice you and then a friend can comment and introduce you.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Guys, he'll be like, you're the dude that made the
AI comment.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
That was for sure he'll remember daxcellent is However, many
comments a day followers, Yeah, that was the funniest comment
I've ever read.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Ever.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Ever, it only.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Has one like to like No, none of the other
people that follow him have liked it.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
But it only has the most important like do you
care about anyone else.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Isn't it funny that like the seratonin that just him
like hitting somebody, probably not him. Maybe it's highly likely
that it's not. What that does to us.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
The hit, Yeah, they like, we'll talk us through it.
What's happening to you right now?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
I mean, I'm just excited. I was like, holy shit,
you know, like and obviously I work in this industry,
so I get it too, and I really truly like
believe it. Probably it might not be him. It's probably
a social media person doing right. But I did notice
I look to see if it's like every comment and
it's not. But that doesn't mean it's him. I just
(04:11):
want to believe that it's him.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
I was gonna say, you already look immediately deflated as you.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
But you know, I think it's harder for like someone
who is just like a fan of whatever celebrity, whether
it's a singer or whatever, to believe that it's not them.
You know.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Yeah, Well it was so interesting to me, Like back
when I was like way more active on social media
and I was on the show and stuff, like people
would always say, I know, you're never gonna see this
in your DMS, and I was like, I can see everything.
I see it, I don't like, I don't know, and
I mean I don't have millions of followers obviously, but
like if you're actively because I had a blog at
(04:48):
the time too, so like you are engaging with people constantly.
And yes, I had an assistant that helped me run that,
but for the most part I saw pretty much everything
like you're you see the comments coming in and the
DM's coming in. Some of them you're not able to
respond to you But like you don't miss stuff as
much as I think people think you do.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
I always check my random requests, not like I'm not
constantly checking them, but the program knows the difference between
like a legit message and hey, by my yarn, you know,
like the weird They separate those out, so you know,
I take the time to like look for this for
people that are just sliding in ship. I might meet
(05:29):
my husband that way.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Well, look, your best.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Liked my comment, So why is my husband responding.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Exactly, he's next, He's next to kill it. Maybe Dax
will introduce you to somebody. Maybe that would be a
full circle moment.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
God, and then Zach's could Dax can marry us?
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Oh my god?
Speaker 2 (05:48):
He's speaking things into the universe.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Yeah, okay, well there you go. Anyway, Chips Day is made.
Maybe week, maybe life, maybe year. I don't know all
of the things you were. We were text a lot
today and obviously we talked earlier because you did go
listen to the Bonnie Hammer podcast and if you guys
haven't listened to the Wednesday podcast yet, I had former
vice chair of NBC Universal, Bonnie Hammer on. She was amazing,
(06:14):
Like I learned so much. I was kind of geeking
out because she got on the podcast and she obviously,
like I was on a show that was under an
NBC Universal umbrella, and so we did a lot of
stuff with them, like I would go do different events
and stuff like that, and she knew who I was
from the show, and she actually gave me really good
feedback because you know, like when you're on a reality
(06:36):
TV show, I don't think that you feel all the time.
Maybe it's me because I know so much of the
backside of the entertainment industry, Like I didn't necessarily feel
like that was the most respected industry within TV. You know, like, right,
does that make sense? Like there's a big actors and
movie people and producers and all these things, and sad
reality TV can sometimes look at as like you're sort
of like do they respect me at all? That just
(06:58):
was so validating to me because that experience. Obviously I've
had not the most positive feedback or like, I don't
speak about it as positively, and I've always kind of
looked at it as, oh God, that really was not
the right move, but had taught me so much. After
my conversation with her, I was like, you know, there's
no mistakes in life, Like then, the things that happen
(07:21):
in our careers and our lives and our relationships, they
do all lead you to the next thing if you
use them for growth. And that was such a growth
moment for me on all kinds of different levels. And
I can look at it now and say that, and
then having that feedback from her, a person who I
was just kind of in awe of honestly, like I
kind of was geeking out. It's kind of funny who
(07:42):
will really like shock me and make me nervous to
talk to, But she was one of them. And it
was because I just respected her career so much, and
then after our conversation I even loved her even more.
So what did you take from the conversation.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
First of all, I kind of expected her have lived
in Los Angeles, but she's in New York her just
because I can envision the NBC Universal building in Studio City,
So I was thinking she was LA based. But then
I'm listening to her, and she reminded me so much
of my first boss, whose name was Vicky, at Atlantic
Records in New York, and she was a New Yorker.
(08:15):
And Vicky had been at at the time I started
working at Atlantic in ninety four. She had been working
at Atlantic at the point at that point for twenty
some years and had come up in that business. And
she was like a tough cookie, like a lot of
people were really scared of her. But like I was
her assistant, so I got to know her really well
on a personal level too, and there was a sensitive
(08:36):
side to her that I got to see. I don't
know that it was as thought out as the way
that Bonnie talked about it, because you know, Bonnie said
on the in the podcast that she the pandemic happened,
she had a lot more free time because she wasn't
commuting four hours a day, and that gave her the
opportunity to write the book because she had the time
to think about it, and it was a really it
(08:57):
was she wrote it from a more reflective place. Some
of the stuff that she learned, she didn't realize she
had learned until she sat back and reflected. Yeah, so
I think that's probably the case with Vicky too, Like
she didn't know exactly why she was operating the way
that she was operating. But I think she operated similarly
as Bonnie did. Yeah, as a leader, I mean it
(09:20):
was like she was tough, you wouldn't cross her, but
she also was sensitive. She cheered us on like a
win for me was a win for her. She promoted
me several times, like when someone tried to poach me,
she wouldn't let me like. She made me feel really important.
She made me feel seen. I mean, I call her
my second I'm still friends with her. I called her
my second mother. Yeah, we still text and share memes.
(09:42):
And I think my career would be very different if
it weren't for her. So listening to the Bonnie thing,
it made me love and miss Vicky and fall in
love with Bonnie. And you know, it's like I've had
a lot of I know that the book is specif Women,
and she said that she wanted it to be more broad,
(10:03):
but her publisher was like, we have to market this,
so it's like, you make it about women. But I've
had a lot of female leadership in my career, so
I can't speak that strongly to like what it's like
to have a male leader, because most of my bosses
have been female. And even when I was at Atlantic,
most of the department heads were female. Like the c
(10:25):
suite was all men, but like the all the SVPs
were women, which was really interesting. That is because at
the end of the day, they're the run ones. The
SVPs are the ones running the show. You know, the
C suite is making a lot of the decisions that
inform them on how to run the show, but like
the day to day operations are happening from the the
(10:48):
SVPs down and so I, you know, I have a
ton of respect for women in power. I've learned a
lot from them. So it was awesome to hear Bonnie's
journey in her evolution and what she's leaned from that.
So I really liked her. Like I texted Kelly this
morning and I was like, you should ask her to
be your mentor.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
I mean that would be a dream truly. I mean,
I just have so much respect for her and the
same that you're saying. I learned so much just in
that conversation in general, one from the perspective of how
she got to where she was and just the striving
and having to you know, kind of develop that tough skin.
And I think that's a mixed bag these days because
there's so much going on with HR. We were talking
(11:31):
about this a little bit on the podcast. I don't
know if you heard her say that, but like in
twenty twenty five, obviously you can't get away with a
whole lot like saying the things that we used to
hear all the time, or acting the way that we
used to act or be treated. And that's good on
so many levels, Like there were things that needed to
be put into place, and there is this other part
(11:52):
of it that's like, well, people are getting so soft
that everything offends everybody, you know, and we have we
don't know how to take constructive criticism anymore. And in
Bonnie's explanation of that, I actually realized that, you know,
I've faced a lot of those kind of bosses in
my younger days or even like my basketball coach when
(12:13):
I was in high school, and it did help me
to really kind of get more disciplined, learn, you know,
how to keep going with my drive to really stand
in my truth on certain things. And so there is
sort of this thing to say for the tough boss
that's going to challenge you. I guess I've posted something
today even about her talking about that piece of it, like,
(12:34):
if you just have just the cheerleader, it's not always
even to your benefit, because you need feedback, you need
constructive criticism, you need all of those things. And so
I loved hearing about her journey through that with her mentor,
but then also her reflection back after being a leader
for so many years, and how so much of what
(12:55):
she ended up ending her career with was kindness, empathy,
the team mentality, you know, wanting to work together and
build each other up, giving constructive feedback, but also making
sure to also honor and value the people and what
they were giving to the team, you know. And I
just think that's such a holistic approach to leadership that
(13:16):
is very difficult to find but also very difficult to
encompass as a leader.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Totally. Yeah, Yeah, I mean I loved the moment that
she said something about for the women on her team.
She let that if they had kids, they didn't have
to come into the office on Friday. Yeah, and you no,
it was just like in general, like if you had children,
you did not have to work on like you had
to get your work done. Also, she was like, if
(13:42):
you need to go to a soccer game, go to
the soccer game and don't feel like you need to
lie to me and act like you're in a meeting. Right,
tell me you're going to the soccer game, but get
your work done. And it fostered like she was like
that didn't scare people away, it actually made them want
to stay. And you know, because that falseter's a team mentality.
You know, it's like, if your goal as a leader
(14:06):
is to only have your team be successful when they're
in your building, you're not looking at them as human
human beings. You're not looking at them as whole human being.
You're looking at them as an ingredient to get your
goals done. And I think if you shad a point,
if you can think of them as a whole human
being that needs to show up and be excited to
(14:26):
be there and be excited to be a part of
your team and to help you succeed by them succeeding.
Then that sounds like a ship that rises with the tides,
you know, Like.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Yeah, well, it probably depends on the kind of person
you are, though, because if you're a workaholic who just
only cares about work, who doesn't have a family, who
doesn't want to do anything but build the business, that's
probably what you're going to expect from the people who
work under you. But if you want to be treated
as a whole person, then you do have to kind
of take that into consideration with your employees. But it's hard,
(14:57):
you know, it's hard. We were talking before the podcast
and and when I've had assistance who work for me,
or the team that was running the Velvet s Edge
blog with me, and stuff like, it is very difficult
because as the leader, you have so much more on
your plate than anybody realizes, and you're managing people, and
you're managing all of like those factors that you just mentioned,
(15:19):
like if somebody gets sick or whatever, all the responsibility
falls on you. So I just remember feeling like, wow,
this is a lot harder to balance being kind, being considerate,
of another human being and also getting my needs met
that I need them to do from their job, you
know what I mean, and what I needed off my
plate so that I could do my part of the job.
And at the end of the day, when you're in
(15:41):
the leadership position, you do get a lot more praise maybe,
but also so much more falls on you. So it's
like I see the hard line, and like, I think
her mentality of the team winning is probably helpful for
even that piece that I just said, because then maybe
people want to work a little bit harder or make baby.
You don't have to get all the praise or the
(16:05):
detriment stuff, do you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Like I mean, it's kind of like, you know, to
give it a sports analogy, because you know, everyone knows
I love sports ball. It's like if the quarterback only
wanted to run the ball all the time and didn't
throw it to anybody. It's like if the quarterback only
(16:30):
wanted to run the ball all the time, it didn't
throw it to anybody, right, you know, like that was
his tactic to win every game, versus being like I've
got an amazing defense, I've got an amazing offense, and
I'm going to let all of them work to the
best of their ability so that I can be the
best quarterback I can be. Then it's exciting because everyone's
contributing to the win and.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
At the end of the game, everybody, everyone gets celebrated.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Yeah, so you know it's it is true. Analogy it
could be can you believe that you're a quarterback?
Speaker 1 (17:03):
I mean a new quarterback probably because you probably do.
They're cute, but I'm like you, I love their uniforms
and that was a lot.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Yeah, but yeah, it's like I'm sure most people have
had that fucking asshole boss that you work for that
you just do because you don't want to put up
with their reaction to anything. And when I think back
to those moments, if I'm placating a boss because I'm
scared of a reaction, I am just going to get
(17:30):
it done, but I'm not going to do it to
the best of my ability. I'm going to get it
done so that I don't have to deal with a
negative reaction. But I would much rather have someone look
at my work and be like, holy fucking shit, you
knock this out of the park. And in order for
me to do things at the best of my ability.
I have to rely on my teammates because I can't
(17:52):
do everything myself and any and sort of in any situation,
so I would have to have have relied on everyone
and help to manage everybody to like get this thing
to be amazing. So then the boss freaks out and
then it is a team win. Yeah, Whereas if you're
dealing with that asshole, I'm like, I'm just gonna get
this fucking done and move on, and then where's the
(18:15):
heart and that that's not success.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Yeah. I mean, I don't know if you remember this part,
but she was talking about her mentor I cannot remember
his name, maybe Barry.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Barry Diller Diller, okay, yes, And.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
He was talking about a show she presented about the
psychic medium John Edwards, who I also love. I'm dying
to get him on the podcast. Maybe I'll get Bonnie.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
To call your mentor, Bonnie, I know.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
But yeah, so I think that she was talking about
she had brought the show idea to him with John Edwards,
and he challenged it. And what I liked about that,
in correlation to what you just said, is him challenging
her and then her standing up for it gave her
more investment in it.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Right.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
I find that I'm more motivated if I feel really
invested in something and if I feel like I'm just
going through the motions to please another person. Like you said,
it's hard for me to find as much passion, excitement,
drive because you're just full it's a paycheck then, you know,
whereas like if you feel some ownership to it at
(19:15):
the end of the day, there's so much more connection.
You're so much more passionate, you give so much more
of yourself, your energy, all of the things, and then
it's so much more satisfying at the end too. And
I felt like she really kind of had learned the
ways to get that herself, but also to give that
to her team, right.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Yeah. And I also think too, like if the first
way that you look at something is the only way
that you're willing to do go about doing it, whether
it's a television show or writing a script or baking
a fucking pie, Yeah, then you're probably not looking for
the full experience of like learning through your experience of
whatever it is that you're doing, because you're not willing
(19:54):
to be challenged. And that's where you learn and grow
is when you hit a wall and you're like, wait, oh,
I need to think about this differently, or I need
to look at it from another side, or maybe this
isn't the right fit or whatever it is, because otherwise
you're just looking for the easy out on everything and
that's no fun, you know, like right, well, at the
end of the day, of course, we want our lives
(20:16):
to be easy, but like challenges are not necessarily a
bad thing. It's like where we get better.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
I think we get a little off with work. Is
like I remember when I first remember when I first
graduated college. You know, I think you're in college and
everyone's kind of like pumping you up, like oh, you're
gonna be so great at that or you you know,
have all these wins, and by the time you graduate,
there's all these people under you too. And I was
in a sorority, so you kind of like are the
mentor for the younger kids. And I remember like getting
(20:44):
to Nashville and being like, why does nobody give a fuck?
Like what like I'm amazing guys, don't you know.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
You know, like I have a little sister.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
But then I think it's like we have this expectation
when we're younger that you're just gonna walk in and
know how to do every thing and like be as
amazing as you were at school and in these smaller ponds,
and then you get out into the big pond and
you realize, like the order you get you start to
kind of go, I don't know shit, you know, Like
I just that has been the biggest helper in my
(21:14):
life is to realize that life is this ever evolving
wheel that we're on and you're just kind of always
growing and always learning, and you're never going to know everything. Also,
like you're not expected to as much pressure as we
put on ourselves. Like that wouldn't be right either. So
I guess where I was going with that was just
to say that if you can't take constructive criticism, then
(21:35):
you're never going to grow, and also like you're only
holding yourself back from where you want to go, probably
if you can't look at it that way. But what
I do really believe is that there's a difference between
like an abusive environment and constructive criticism. So and that's
what's weird about this time frame where it's like in
twenty twenty five you can't say anything, but back in
(21:56):
the day you could probably say too much. So I
don't know, I don't really know which one's better. I
wish we could find some middle ground somewhere.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Well, I mean it's just as simple as like you idiot,
Like that is a dumb idea would never fly today, you.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Know what I mean? Should That's like, if anyone's giving
an idea, is that actually helpful feedback? Probably not? No,
But I also think finding the holes in it?
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Yeah, But I also think too that like that is
also just a very easy, like first way to phrase
something like that's stupid, like let's let's look at it
this way also does not mean like you're stupid, see stupid? Yeah,
and look, trust me, I probably would too. But I'm
you know, thinking back to like the way that people
(22:42):
used to talk and the way that people talk now.
I survived that, you know, like it's not and it doesn't.
It didn't breed that in me. I would never use
that language. I also have, you know, prided myself while
not being stupid. I also have suffered from like wanting
people to think that I know how to do everything
or that I know everything. And I hate the feeling
(23:04):
of not knowing everything, even though I know it's realistic
to not. But yeah, I mean the whole hr piece
of it is really interesting because I do think it
is forcing people to be different, a different kind of
leader now, and it's breeding softness in the workplace. I mean,
I I used to fear getting fired every day, and
(23:27):
I don't know why I don't have that fear now,
but as a younger person, and I think maybe it
was because, like I was doing exactly what I knew
I wanted to do, so it was like the idea
of like losing the opportunity was what drove me to
try and be excellent.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Well, you're also at a different stage of your career though,
because now that is true established so like if you
lost this job, you would have connections I would find
out there, whereas back in the day you don't. You
probably like that was your one shot, right, oh right.
I just think there's a balance, Like I think it's
as a leader, what I really grow from is someone
who has high expectations of me, that does have that
(24:06):
gives me feedback when I don't meet the expectations, but
also values me enough and I know it, so they're
telling me also when it is you know, you're getting
the positive feedback as well, or the value is shown
to you in some different kind of way, like you're
acknowledged in some sort of way. Like I think we
all need that, like we need to feel seen and appreciated. Yeah,
(24:29):
but I do think we're still kind of sorting out
I think what the line is because I think it's
like we've swung to this opposite end of the pendulum
right now, and we need to kind of figure out
how are we going to benefit ourselves the most with growth,
with actually like getting the job done, and with not
just being totally abusive to people so that they're insirable
(24:50):
state in their life.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Well, really, truly constructive criticism would be delivered in a
way that recognizes that you're capable of actually doing they're
asking you to do. You just haven't done it yet,
So you know, it's not like that's why I'm Constructive
criticism wouldn't be like you fucking idiot, you're never going
to do this, get out of my way, Like that's
not constructive. But to be like that's stupid. Why don't
(25:14):
you think about it this way? It's not necessarily an insult,
it's just the wrong choice of words.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Yeah, you know what I mean like stupid, though, what
do you keep going back?
Speaker 2 (25:22):
I don't know, like you.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Really want to get in idiot and stupid somewhere so
we see them on a box.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
I've been called that at some point. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Well, I think you can give feedback in the ways,
like challenging is not bad, especially if you if you're
in a leadership position, like if you've been in the
business longer than me and you see a hole in
something I'm doing, I do appreciate that, Like I actually
appreciate feedback. But I'm a person that also really wants
(25:50):
to grow and so like if there's something you see
that I could do better, I always want to know,
Like that's just how I've been wired forever. But when
I don't understand and you're just being a dick about it,
that's when it's like, what does this help anybody? Because
then I get too scared to show up at all,
Like it's like I can't.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Oh, that's so funny. All, yeah, that brings up. I
just started watching do you know the show the Rehearsal?
Speaker 1 (26:14):
I do not.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Okay, it's a second season is on HBO Max. I
just started watching it last night. I couldn't watch the
first season. It's it's with this comedian named Nathan Felder.
The second season it is very different. The first season
was each episode was about a specific subject. This one
is he studied airplane crashes throughout history, and he noticed
(26:38):
from the data and the flight recordings that the thing
that they all had in common was that the co
pilot was too scared to speak up to the captain.
And it's so interesting, like apparently he like gets his
pilot license throughout this whole season. But he found this
guy that used to run the NTSB and it has
(26:59):
gotten him and he's like an older gentleman and he
says something to him and he was like, Yeah, I
think that there there's a lack of training in the
I don't know, pilot school or whatever it is where
these people are in the shit that they don't focus
enough on the co pilot also being in command on
the plane. Yeah, And I mean they they have tapes
(27:20):
where they listen to like what was happening in the
cockpit before these crashes, and like some of them are
it's like, you know, a male captain and a female
co pilot where he's like saying things that are really
like out of line, and it's diminished her to wear
the fact that she's too scared to say something when
her fucking life is on the line.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
That's insane, it's crazy. I get it. I mean, I
do believe that it can be crippling when you're That's
why I'm saying the words like the words idiot and
stupid are probably not right.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Yeah, I get that.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Yeah, because it just like that would make someone feel
like I don't want to speak up because I'm going
to be reprimanded in this way that makes me feel
so terrible, Like why would I want to keep walking
into the fire, you know. So I think anyway, I
think all of this is way trickier to navigate than
we're making it sound right now, which is why I
(28:12):
had so much respect Just to circle back to Bonnie
for her, like, I have so much respect for someone
in a leadership position who is a great leader, because
I think that is such a high skill set that
not everyone can do. I really do, Like, yeah, it's
it's very admirable to me to see a really great leader.
(28:32):
So she was one of them.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Also, it also sounded like, you know, when Barry would
challenge her, he didn't always win, like.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Well, challenge if the challenge wasn't.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Just to be challenging, it was because he saw holes,
and then it would take It would mean that she
would have to go think about her position and she
could come back and challenge him. And there were definitely
times where she won the.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Fight absolutely, And I think that's that's the important piece, right,
Like if in your copilot analogy or story, it's like
if the co pilot had spoken up and Ben had
positive feedback from that sometimes or it had been the
right thing and they said, yeah, thanks for saying that
you're right or whatever. That's the thing that then when
the shit hits the fan or they're noticing something that
(29:18):
could actually be potentially dangerous, they would then have the
confidence to stand up.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Right.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
So anyway, it's a fine line to walk. If anyone
out there is listening that's in this leadership position, mad
respect to you. I think that it's a huge, huge
position and it's a lot easier said than done. So
Bonnie is amazing. If you do, you want to go
check out that podcast that was up on Wednesday. She
wrote a book called Fifteen Lies Women Are Told at
Work and the Truth We Need to succeed. And I
(29:47):
love the way she structured this book. I mean, we
talked about it a little bit on Wednesday, and I
gave you the you guys, the one example, But Chip
and I went through all fifteen and we picked our
two top favorites each because I want you to see,
first of all, how she structured this book, so you
can know what the layout is. But these things wrung
so true to me because they are so easily said
in our world, like they're just common phrases that we
(30:10):
hear all the time and don't even notice we're hearing them.
And I think she is so right that they're inaccurate often,
you know, so she kind of busts the myths and
then she comes in with these truths. So I want
to know, Chip, what were the two that really stood
out to you, because let's talk about them.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
First of all, all of them rang true, okay, But
the number six is fake it till you make it,
And the truth to that is face it till you
make it, okay. And the reason why that one spoke
to me was because I am a people pleaser and
I often catch myself faking it until I make it.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
So saying yes me.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Yeah. I even will catch myself in a conversation where
someone's like, you know, blah blah blah, Linda Johnson, you
know Linda, right, and I'll be like, yeah, I don't
know fucking Linda, Like I don't know why I said yeah,
you know what I mean, Like it makes no sense
to me. But then I'll go fucking google Linda Johnson
and figure out who she is. Linda. I'm like, good
(31:21):
old Linda. I love that curly hair, and they're like
she's bald. Yeah, but yeah, I mean, I catch myself
faking it until I make it, and it has worked
for me in the past. But I also think that
I can see how in those moments, I'm not growing
like it doesn't I'm avoiding the uncomfortable of just being like, no,
(31:41):
I don't know who's Linda, and because it makes me
look like I don't know something and like, of course
I can't know every person in the world. So I
loved seeing this because it's like I feel like I
got a lesson from it, like face it until.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
You make It's what's because it's like what.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Good is faking it? Like even in my example with
Linda Johnson, like so then now i go away from
the conversation and I've learned who Linda Johnson is, Like
what's the value in that? You know?
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Also, you're setting yourself up for so much embarrassment later
because what if that person goes to Linda and they're like, oh,
you know chip doors and they're like, oh yeah, so you.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Know, I do think the moral of that Linda Johnson's
story is like it is okay to not know everything.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
You do not have to know everything.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
You don't have to fake anything. You can be I mean,
it's like there was a time when I didn't know
how to walk, I didn't know how to ride a bike,
you know, I didn't know how to wipe my own ass. Yeah,
and that's fine. You learn these things and if you
face things, you can face them with curiosity and passion
and zest and actually like walk away learning something rather
(32:50):
than just faking your way through a conversation just to
feel comfortable.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Yes, And like it's so interesting because as you were talking,
I was thinking about people that I respect in business
in general, and they are the most curious people. Consistently
across the board, the people that I respect the most
stay curious, so they're always learning, They're always willing to
learn more, and that comes from asking questions. And it
(33:17):
also it's like that doesn't have to mean either that
you're bad at your job. Like if there's certain things
that you don't know, you can say I don't know that,
but I'm going to go research that and get back
to you or like that was one of the tricks
somebody taught me along the way, was just to say
I'm going to go look it up and I'll get
back to you. Like, we don't have to do everything
with such urgency all the time that I think we
feel pressured too, So like it was helpful to me
(33:39):
to have that little saying kind of in the back pocket,
because yeah, you don't want to look stupid or that
you don't know what you're doing. I'm like that because like,
for instance, with my job with hair and makeup, there
is a new makeup product or a new hair product.
I mean every fucking.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
Day, right one, There's a million every day.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
There's just so many, and so it's impossible to keep
up with all of the new products that come out
all the time. But I used to feel like if
I didn't know every single one in someone especially someone
like not in the business, Like just a regular person
that wears makeup would bring something up to me about
how much they love it, and I didn't know what
it was. I was like, oh my god, that would
(34:18):
show that I am not good at my job or something.
But the reality is, it's like I have now been
doing this job so long that I have found so
many of my favor products.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
Does that work for you?
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Yeah? And like the truth is is, like recently even
this has come up with some people in my agency,
like cause we'll be co collaborating on something like working
together on a job, and they'll ask me questions about
my mixtures and I was like, oh my god, I
created my own fucking makeup, so right, It's just crazy
that I would let that make me feel so down played,
(34:50):
if that makes sense, instead of being like, oh, I've
actually made my own concoction that I love using on
guys and this is why, and then talking about it
from that experience or learn thing about something new that
might do the same thing as this concoction that I created,
you know, like it's just this ever evolving thing. And
I think the more that we can feel confident in
our own skin and stay curious to keep learning more
(35:12):
because every job is ever evolving as far as I know,
at least in this age. It is then yeah, like
just what does she say, face the what is it?
Speaker 2 (35:21):
Face it until you face it.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
Until you make it. I just love that because it's
like very I think that's a very inspirational way to
do it. Okay, what's your other one?
Speaker 2 (35:29):
My other one is myth number nine, which is good
things come to those who wait, Okay, And the truth
to that is great things come to those who act.
And I can from experience say that that is just
the truth. There is the truth. I mean, I was
just a little kid in Personet's Virginia who had a
dream of working in the music business. And I didn't
(35:52):
know how to do that. And that's funny because she
talked on the podcast about follow your dreams, but she
said the truth that is follow your opportunities, right, And
I had a dream, but I had no idea how
I was going to make it happen. And then I
met somebody who opened a portal and I followed the opportunity.
So that one really rang true to me. But this
is also it plays into that because I could have
(36:14):
just met that person and not. You know, she said, hey,
do you want to do this thing for me? And
I said, yeah, I'll do that. And I was willing
to do anything I could for free. I took action
to make my dream come true, and then suddenly it
wasn't a dream, it was a reality that I then
had proven to myself that action makes things happen, right,
(36:35):
And so now I live a life of action when
it comes to my work. Like I mean, it's if
there's a client that I want to sign or work with,
like I can't just sit there and wait for them
to discover me. I'd have to go after them. Or
if there's an opportunity that I want for one of
my artists, I can't wait for that opportunity just to
come to the artist. I have to go make that happen,
(36:57):
whether that's through relationship building or force. And so it
is funny to think that like we sit back and
say good things come to those who wait.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
I know, I wonder who created that.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
I mean, that is the most bullshit line I've ever
heard in my life. And you know how many times
I've probably said it, you know, just as like aquip
to say, like you know, someone will be like I
never thought I would get married at fifty six. I'm like,
good things come to those who wait, No.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Because you could have you don't have a journey before
that that's not heard to that place or him to
that place or whatever. I think, Yeah, I think good
things come to those who wait. Could be a good
mentality if you are working really hard on something day
to day and it's not quite clicking at first, right,
you know, like keep going and see but it's.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
But that's action, that's not waiting.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Exactly, That's what I'm saying. It's like I just don't
know that. Like you can ever sit back or sit
on your couch and just think something's going to PLoP in.
It's like we used to say this about dating apps.
Remember it was like none of us really wanted to
be on dating apps, But how else do you meet
people nowadays? And if you're just sitting at home bitching
about not being in a relationship, like that ain't the
(38:08):
way you're going to find it. What do you think,
like some stork is going to come drop off Prince Charming,
like that's how this works.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
No, I really like that too, And I've had a
very similar experience in my life, and I love what
you mentioned, like the working for free, being willing to
show up and do the hard work, because I think
that's how we came up in the industry. And that's
a bit different now too, Like there's an expectation that
you should just rise to the top because you can
go viral on TikTok these days, you know, And like,
(38:35):
I think that's kind of playing out interestingly though, because
it doesn't. It's it is backfiring in a lot of situations.
So just being willing to like follow what opportunities come
your way is very That's one of the biggest pieces
of advice. I would say, Well, I.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Think anything, any successful business or you know, effort, whatever
it is, has to be built on a strong foundation.
Things that happen really quickly tend to be fleeting. And
that's not to say, like, look, if something great starts happening,
don't lean into it, but know that like along the way,
(39:12):
you have to like think about what the foundation is. Yes,
whether it's a career, it's a piece of art, a relationship,
you know, like how many times have we fallen in
love the first love at first sight? Like yes, but
if you if you just lean into that and don't
like put anything underneath that it's not going to be
(39:32):
a long term relationship.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
Yeah, for sure, the foundation has to be there. I
agree with you, Okay, mine where myth number two says,
don't just know your worth, the truth being work on
your worth. I find that to be really helpful because
people say that's like one of those flippant statements. Right,
it's just like, well you got to know your worth,
and it's just like what does that even fucking mean? Like, right,
(39:55):
what does it mean? And do I not have my worth?
Like I just remember back in the day like well
I know my worth, you know, or I whatever. But
the truth was is like I didn't really I didn't
really have like a true sense of confidence and worth.
I feel like I operate and under this kind of
false confidence or whatever like you were talking about even
(40:16):
with acting like you know everything, you know, like all
of those things are fleeting and they're not real, and
so if they get challenged, it can break you. Whereas
if you're working on your worth and looking at that
as something that's ever evolving as well, Like you know,
there's times where it's just like you're so full and
confident and you know deep in your bones your worth,
(40:39):
like you just know it and you're not going to
sway from that. And then life happens and that can
change and challenge that, and you've got to keep working
on it. And that's for me, it's a daily thing,
like I start every morning with these certain affirmations that
I do, and that's been so helpful for me and
I needed it. Like it's not like I just wake
up every morning just loving myself easily like that is.
(41:00):
It's a challenge for me sometimes and so and I
think people are always surprised to hear that, but I
think it's just like that we're all human and we
all have you know, in my astrology that makes sense
if anything about your Kirn wound.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
But I also think too, it's like I don't think
that we can just know our worth, Like I think
you have to literally work at everything and take note
of your worth along the way, because if it's as
flippant as like know your worth, then if you can't
(41:34):
describe what you're worth, like why you are worthy in
certain situations, then you don't know your worth. And if
you've worked really hard at your worth and continue to
like grow your worth, then you'll be able to be
like you need me for these reasons.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Yes, And also it's not necessarily because of the accomplishments
or the job title or the blah blah blah, like
the external thing, Like your worth comes from such a
deeper place inside and it's because you fucking woke up
in the morning and your name is Chip, like that
makes you worthy. But you have to believe that, like
(42:14):
you have to know what you bring as a human
being and what your insides are and what you can
offer someone else. And then yes, like you're saying, if
someone asks you, you can tell them all the ways.
But it's also like it doesn't matter if they agree
with it or not, because you're so worthy within yourself. Yes,
but I used to think that if I built up
(42:36):
all this stuff, then I would feel worthy.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
That was that was it.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
If I could just get to this place, then I
would feel like I belonged or I would feel like
I was worthy of being here or whatever. And you know,
just like the more imposter syndrome type feelings. And now
it's like I think when you if you lose things
or you do that, and then it goes away, Like
I think everyone probably experienced a love of that during COVID.
(43:01):
I know we all did, because it was like your
identity was challenged when your work goes away, It's just
like who am I then? Because I've been defining myself
by all these things, and so that was a big
time where I had to really start working on my
worth because I couldn't build it from external validation, like
(43:22):
the worth had to come from within. And so anyway,
that to me, that one was a really good one
because it's just said so flippantly, and I just don't
think that we can just poof know our worth like
it's a day to day thing and you just work
on it and it ebbs and flows throughout your life,
and there's gonna be highs of it, and there's gonna
be loads of it. There's gonna be days where it's
easy and days where it's hard, and that's normal.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
You know what. And sometimes you might not be worthy
of that moment and that's okay.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
Yeah, Oh you're saying like if you got an opportunity.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
Or whatever that moment is, you know, it's like there
are going to be moments where it's like you aren't
worthy and recognizing the fact that you aren't worthy probably
is to say.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
Say that though it's not that you're not worthy, because
you're always worthy. Like worth to me is something of
like a not external thing. But maybe you're not the
right fit, or you're not that's not the right position.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
Or you might not feel worthy, And I think it's
important like to recognize that so that you know that
you're making the right decisions for you, not because you
want external validation from something. It's kind of what I
was getting at, Yeah, because that does like that shows
that you recognize your worth to be like, I really
appreciate the offer, but that's not for me. You know,
(44:34):
that's knowing your worth, and it might be like that
I'm in over my head there. I don't want to
do that.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
When I started dating after not the current relationship I'm in,
but like after the last relationship I was in, I
had hit such a bad low, maybe the lowest I've
ever been in my life after that relationship because it
was so toxic for me. But I remember going into
dating and there was this guy who was so perfect
on paper, Like any girl that met this guy would
(45:02):
just be like, oh my god. He was very handsome,
he had a really great job, he was so nice
to me, He was funny, he was like easy to
talk to. Everything seemed like it was there, and I
could not click with him like in me, like I
think he clicked with me, but and it's like on paper,
we should have clicked perfectly, but I didn't feel the thing,
(45:23):
you know. And I remember that being such a moment
of worth for me to know that I was worthy
enough to walk away from this guy who everybody would
probably be like, what the fuck You're gonna walk away
from that?
Speaker 2 (45:36):
Right?
Speaker 1 (45:36):
But that didn't mean that I was like that I
wasn't good enough or I was messed up or whatever.
It just wasn't the right fit. And like I didn't
let it challenge who I was. We were just on
different journeys in life, you know, Like does that make sense?
Just that was just That's been one of my big
experiences in dating, is like just really understanding like I'm
(45:59):
worthy of the greatest love of all time just because
I'm me and you are too, just because you're you.
And we don't have to like compromise or not listen
to ourselves, go against whatever because the external forces are
there that would make us be like, oh, you got
to do this. You can't walk away from that, You're crazy.
And then now, look, I'm in the happiest relationship I've
(46:21):
been in, So it was the right move. There you go,
which kind of leads me to my next one, which
is trust your gut is the myth, and then the
truth is check your gut. And I love this one
because I think it gets thrown around so often. And
I'm such a big talker about intuition. You guys know this,
but like, there's so many things when you're learning how
(46:41):
to trust your intuition that can be factors. And the
more I've learned about trauma and triggers and all of
these pieces that come into our brains, like psychologically, it's
so easy to confuse intuition and like a traumatic trigger, right, So,
I think it's thrown around in our culture so often
(47:03):
while I'm just just trusting my gut, I'm just gonna
follow my gut, And you're not always operating from a
sound place, like if you haven't done a lot of
your work, or even if you have, like we're all
so human that sometimes there can be these things coming in,
like old narratives you didn't know you still believed, or
a past experience could have gone terribly with something similar,
(47:25):
So you're acting out of that place because your body
hasn't you know, released that trauma and that's not actually
what's happening in this situation. And so I always have
found it to be so helpful as a part of
like since I've been working on myself journey, which is
I don't know, over a decade now, of like the
therapy and doing twelve step work and stuff, but like
(47:46):
checking myself with someone like that, like checking yourself with
someone who you trust, who is a safe place, who
you can run by you know what your gut is
really screaming at you, and then make the decision. Like
I just really found that to be such an important
part of my life and my journey. And I think
so often if we're just operating in a silo, we
(48:09):
are gonna make some decisions that are led by false narratives,
by trauma from the past, and it's going to fuck
up current situations. And I've been on the other side
of that too, and that is a wild experience because
you're like fighting a demon that isn't even there for you,
you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (48:27):
Totally well, also too. Let's not forget that, like fear
and excitement feel the same thing in our gut, and
so sometimes when we think that something really scary is coming,
it's actually excitement, but we are talking ourselves out of
it because we don't think we're worthy or whatever it is.
And so you have to check your gut because you
(48:48):
can be like, wait a minute, why is my body
telling me not to do this, or is my body
telling me to do this? Exactly that point when I
read it, like, it didn't hit me really until you
started talking about and I was like, oh, no, it's
really fucking clear, like because I do think that, like
there are a lot of people that would just like
feel their gut and be like, no, I can't do that.
(49:10):
It's I'm not good enough, I'm not smart.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
Enough, i don't know enough, which is the narrative. Yeah,
that's not it's not reality, and it's yeah, so it's
just helpful. I will say it's very very important to
make sure you have a safe person though, because I've
also been in the scenario where you're running things by
someone who has a motive and real that isn't obviously
going to be good for you and your gut can
be saying something else and you're like, well, who do
(49:34):
I trust and whatever, and like it is important to
be able to trust yourself. And then also the more
I've practiced this, obviously, like I can kind of recognize
the difference now more, you know, like I just think
you can. You can start to really trust yourself a
lot more the more practice you do. But yeah, I
just find I found that to be a really good
point of not just blindly trusting your gut all the time,
(49:57):
because sometimes you could be operating from a place of
narratives and old triggers or things like that. So yeah, anyway,
Bonnie Hammer was an amazing guest. The book is called
fifteen Lives Women are Told at Work and the truth
we need to succeed. I also am like Bonnie and
believe that men could benefit greatly. You really enjoyed the podcast,
so I'm assuming you would really enjoy the book as well.
(50:19):
So this is not just for women. We're saying men
and women can go read. I think she just speaks
from the perspective of a woman obviously, and like she said,
her publisher wanted to market it more so. But you
guys can reach out to us at the Edge at
velvetedge dot com. You can hit me up on Instagram.
I'm at Velvet's Edge, Chip, I'm at chip Doors.
Speaker 2 (50:38):
It's Chip d r scch.
Speaker 1 (50:41):
And did you notice that I got the velvest Edge
podcast Instagram up?
Speaker 2 (50:45):
I sure did.
Speaker 1 (50:47):
We are up and running, so go check us out there.
It's going to be a lot more intensive with just
more information about the podcast. So about each podcast, We're
gonna have like different prompts for you guys on there,
different things that you can kind of work with, like
tangible tools that we get. You know, I love a
tangible tip. I'm always saying that on the podcast. So
those will also be on that social media, just to
(51:09):
make it more streamline, make it more easy for you
guys to access and to keep up with us and
this podcast and to engage with us, Like we just
need a space that we can all talk to each other.
I feel so at Velvet Edge podcast is that Instagram
and go follow and talk to us and message and
let us know what you guys are thinking and feeling
(51:30):
and living and yeah, okay, I'm going to stop now
here and all the things as you guys go into
the weekend and you're living on the edge. I hope
you always remember too.
Speaker 2 (51:40):
A casual I'll bye.
Host
Kelly Henderson
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.