October 17, 2024 • 22 mins
Wellington mayor Tory Whanau met with local government minister Simeon Brown this morning as he awaits advice on whether he should intervene at Wellington City Council. But is the council actually at the point where intervention is needed?
Also, ACC is facing a $7.2 billion deficit. How did it get to this point, and are increased levies the only answer?
To face those questions, Labour's health and Wellington issues spokesperson Ayesha Verrall and National's MP for Otaki Tim Costley joined Nick Mills for Politics Thursday.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk Said B focusing in on the issues
that matter politics Thursday on Wellington Mornings. News Talk said Bil.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
For politics this Thursday as Labour's health and Wellington's issues.
Spokesperson is Shaverral Good morning, I Sha, and O teke Mp.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Tim Costly, Good morning, Tim, Yes, good morning sir.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
We're just having a conversation or fair about the different
ratings of intelligence between the three of us. And I said,
one of you can fix my health, the other one
can fly me home, so I'm coming third pretty quickly.
And then the discussion went to could you Tim Costly?
I mean, I know that you're a helicopter pilot, but
if I was on a seven three seven and a
(01:01):
airbus flying to Auckland and both pilots went down and
I'm sitting next to you, could you out the front
and land?
Speaker 4 (01:07):
Well, I probably beat myself more than me more than
you might beat yourself. I did spend a bit of
time flying planes and teaching people to fly planes in
the Air Force as well. But you've got to bat
yourself to have a go, don't you know. That's part
of being a pilot is just ruthless confidence.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
And if I had a heart attack, I sure you'd
be able to start doing something to me to try
and keep me alive, wouldn't you.
Speaker 5 (01:24):
Absolutely I had a baby, I could probably deliver it
at a streach too.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
I reckon you have real trouble delivering a baby from me.
I think even you as powerful and it's as as smart,
as good a doctor as you. I think if you
could deliver a baby from me, I show you should
be somewhere else rather than there talking to me.
Speaker 6 (01:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Right, Let's talk about some very serious matters. Let's start
with the Worlington City Council. Mayor Tory Farno has just
met with local government Minister Simi and Brown this morning
after the government essentially threatened intervening. Nikola Willis called the
council as shambles, Chris Bishop called it chamozzle, but Tori
says everything is fine. I'll start with you on this.
(02:04):
Iha as you are Willington's issues spokesperson. Is the point
where government needs to get involved?
Speaker 5 (02:11):
No, I don't think so. But let's take a step
back and say Wellington does have serious problems. Some of
them relate two assues that the Council needs to work on.
That includes the state of our infrastructure, and they seem
to have some particular challenges around around insurance, but some
(02:32):
of them are the governments creating, including the state of
our economy because of the public sector layoffs that we've had.
What seems to be going on now is that we've
had a democratic decision to not sell the airport shares,
and that's created a situation where the Council needs to
go back and make some decisions for its long term plan.
That is not the end of the world. Neither is
(02:54):
any of this conversation that's going on about appointing a
commissioner or a Crown well, a Crown observer. I mean,
that will be just a sort of bureaucratic step to
make it look like some thing is being done. So
I think there's In the last forty eight hours, there's
been a lot of hype about this story, with those
comments from Nikola Willis and Chris Bishop sort of ramping
(03:14):
up the hype. Few meetings yesterday made it seem like
it's all all a big deal. But the fact is
the Council, and I'm pleased to hear they're heading in
this direction. Need to sit down and get into the
boring work of writing a new plan.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Have you had any intervention whatsoever? You are the oppositions
Willington's issue, spokessiness.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Have you called Torri and had a chat to it?
Speaker 5 (03:33):
I haven't called her since yesterday. No, but we've talked
through these issues and meetings before.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Okay, good on you, Tim, you're a lecterer. They must
be sitting back because they're our neighbors and they look
at us as a big brother, and they'll be sitting
there laughing at us, are they.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
Ah, Look, I'm I'm I'm glad I live in hot
A Fenna and companies.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
You've got to pla town too. You've got to place
in town too.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
Remember, Well, look, I think it's the consistent feedback I
hear on the streets here is that that people are
genuinely concerned about this. Right, Everything's not fine. This is
this is significant when there's a four to six hundred
million dollar a gap now in the in the long
term plan. There there appears to be, you know, significant
dysfunction of the council, very confusing messaging coming out over
the last few weeks through you know, including interviews on
(04:16):
this show, which probably haven't helped. So I think people
are genuinely concerned about what the future means and what
that means for their rates bill.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
And do you think the government will take it seriously
enough or not?
Speaker 6 (04:26):
I think we are taking it seriously. You know, well
we haven't.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
We haven't, to be fair to them, we haven't seen
anything yet. We've seen a lot of talk.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
Well, I think you know it's it's a very high
threshold for a minister to intervene. And that's and that's
what you just heard from from Asher as well, to
be fair, So I don't think you want everyone just
leaping in at the first moment. But this is absolutely serious.
The Minister is monitoring it closely. The one thing we
know isn't causing this. Just to pick up what I
just said, is is the state of the economy right.
(04:53):
The economy is doing great. We've got inflation down. I
don't know how you could try and attribute this.
Speaker 5 (04:59):
Great. We've had a number of businesses shut down and
it's because the customers are out of work.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Yeah, And I mean you can't re Beyonnest with a
straight face tell us that things are good and wanting
to with all those staff that have.
Speaker 6 (05:10):
Lost jobs across the country. But everything's taken some of.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
It's responsible for you guys for getting rid of some
staff too, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Are you not taking that on the chin?
Speaker 4 (05:20):
Well, I'm taking on the chin that we made the
tough decisions, which is why we now have inflation down
at two point two percent, a year ahead of where
it would have been on all productions even a year ago.
So absolutely we made some tough decisions. Yes, that has
an impact on maybe a local cafe that sees a
few less people coming in. You, we have to do
this to get the country, to rebuild the economy and
(05:40):
to get get all that in the right direction.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Get all that, I get all that talk, But I mean,
are you trying to tell us that everything's okay in Wellington?
The economy in Wellington's okay, and everything's fixed and we're
back to normal.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Now.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
What I'm telling you is that the dysfunction we're seeing
a council is not caused by the decisions that our
government is making. What we are interested in is seeing
council come out now and provide some certainty to rate
payers and in what the long term plan is going
to look like and how they can deliver that over
the next ten years in a way that is fiscally
responsible and not going to just drive uprates.
Speaker 5 (06:13):
Yeah, but the challenge there is Wellington's got some of
the most acute infrastructure challenges because of the pipes in
the country. Our council needed an affordable solution for water
infrastructure in government. We offered that that has been repelled
by this government. So the challenge for our council and
(06:33):
the fact that our rates are going up in Wellington
is very much because of the decisions made by the
national government and I think you have to owned that too,
as well as the state of the local economy.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
Well I absolutely own getting rid of their three Waters
plan and bringing local water done well because you can't
say that you're saving money by the taxpayer bailing people out.
The taxpayer the rate payer of the same person, right,
We have to look at how we can use the
funds that are available more effectively so we don't drive
up inflation and drive up costs and make life harder
for every day key.
Speaker 5 (07:04):
We so using the balance sheet of the to make
the water infrastructure. Take the water infrastructure off the council box.
Was the purpose of the affordable water reforms. We haven't
seen the local solution and so we are still at
risk of considerable rate increases in Wellington.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
I want to ask you both very quickly what your
decision would have been, because this has all stemmed from
the fact that the airport shares didn't sell. This is
where the problem's been created. Do you think we Washington
should sell the city council should have actually sold the
shares in Wellington Airport?
Speaker 5 (07:34):
No, I don't. It is a strategic asset for the city.
It brings a return to the city that otherwise would
be on rate payers, and I have not seen a
compelling argument about how this insurance proposal is going to work,
(07:56):
which is the counter argument that proposal hasn't totally stacked
up in my mind.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Jim Costly, do you think Wonnington should have sold the shares?
Speaker 4 (08:04):
I'm just not jumping into that councilor elected to make
those decisions on behalf of the community. Now, what they
need to do is actually deliver a long term plan
that can keep rights under control and deliver for the
local people here.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Do you both, either of you have an opinion on
whether Torifano can actually lead us out of this? Do
you think that she's the right person to get us
through the next period of type.
Speaker 5 (08:25):
Actually, it's funny how I was just I just think
council politics are so much harder than parliamentary politics because
if you're in government in parliament, that means you've got
a majority in parliament. But of course being a mere
looks just incredibly tough. Is my conclusion from this whole set.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
It wasn't really the question do you think that she
can lead us through? You've just said you spoke to
her yesterday.
Speaker 5 (08:45):
I think that is not a question just on Tory.
That is a question on all the councilors, including those
from the left and from the right, to be more collaborative.
The city needs them to do that now.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
But isn't that a leadership thing.
Speaker 5 (08:57):
It's not just a leadership if it does require every
councilor now to think we do need to get a
long term plan and the best interests.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Of the Sorry, I'll put it a little bit more
simply so, because I really want to get an answer
from you, Aisha, because you are Wellington's you know, a
spokesperson for your party, is Tory Fano a good mayor
for Wellington.
Speaker 5 (09:17):
I think she can be, but she will need the
collaboration of her counselors to get a plan.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Okay, so she's not a good mayor right now, but.
Speaker 5 (09:24):
Could we I think she's It's a real difficult situation
she's in. That's fork, that's for sure. But I don't
think the blame for this situation that the city or
the long term plan is in can be helped put
at the feet of entirely one person.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Tim COSTI what do you think.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
I think it's not helpful if I start racing meyors
one way or the other. You know, I understand why
people have.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
You've got a gut feeling. You live half your life
in the city. Now you've got a place in town,
so you spend a bit of time in here. I mean,
do you feel that the city's under it's right guidance
and the Tory is the right person to do it?
Speaker 3 (09:54):
Either yes or no.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
I think the city's facing challenges. I think we need
to see more leadership. I mean, I think you've seen
the mayor come out and say she can understand why
people are concerned and she's not going to fight any
decisions that are made from here. You know that this
is the time that we need to see leaders step up.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Okay, Tim, I want to start with you on this.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Inflation's down to its last level in three years, hitting
two point two percent. How big a news is, How
big a deal is it actually for the economy?
Speaker 4 (10:17):
That's huge? Right, this is huge. Everone in the room
will be smiling. We are finally back down in that
target ban one to three percent. This is amazing. You know,
we came in at the election we campaign on and
we'll give them one key job above all the others,
which was to tackle the cost of living and rebuild
the economy. This is the point at which all the
bleeding has been stopped. We're back down to where we
should be.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
It is taking the credit for something that reserve bank
here sounds.
Speaker 5 (10:40):
Like it isn't it.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
Absolutely, we're taking the credit because the very first thing
we did when we came in was send them back
to a single mandate, because that's how important it is.
We've cut the wasteful spending. We're prioritizing where the money
goes and making the tough decisions that we talked about
just in the last section about how you know people
saying well, you've done things that had an.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Sorry to interrupt that to them, but you have spent
more than labor did well.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
But we're spending it in the right areas. It's not
inflationary spending. It's targeted to provide those better pub services,
to restore or in order to deliver better health care
and education. Getting this inflation down to the right level
is so critical because it means, as we've already seen
interest rates coming down and they will come down further.
That means mortgage holders have a few more dollars at
(11:22):
the end of the week, businesses can invest the money
they need create that growth. This is such a fantastic
news and really critical in something our government's incredibly proud of.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Does the Reserve Bank now need to get really bold
seventy five points in November? Do you reckon they really
need to get bold now or does that make them
out to be that they made the mistake in the
first place.
Speaker 5 (11:42):
Lock I'm not a renowned commentator on the Reserve Bank.
I think the New Zealanders will welcome the interest rates
coming down, and they have come down as they were
predicted to come down before the elections. I think that's
a bit of a to the spin cycle over there.
This is exactly as it was tracking before the election.
(12:03):
The challenge for people going about their everyday lives is
our economy is still really really sluggish. Yes, inflation on
tradeables down, but not on non tradeables. People are still
finding rates are high, rents are high, and we've got
increasing unemployment. It's still projected to go up further because
(12:23):
of these decisions at the Reserve banker is making to
bring down inflation. So it's not at all as rosy picture,
and the government has a lot of work to do
if it is to see that some of its policy
initiatives coming through into real growth in our economy.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
It's interesting that inflation would have actually been much low
if it wasn't for council rates across the country. They
increased by twelve point two percent, and warnington's a hell
of a lot worse than that last year. Our rates
now becoming a big problem here with inflation.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
I think the cost of living generally has been a
real challenge for keys. That's why this is so important
that we tackle this.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
And I want to specifically talk about rates.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
I mean, how do we get the local bodies to
get those under controlled actually to generally help those people
in the pocket.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
Well, part of it is going to be about targeting
that spending in the right areas. And you know, as
you I could give you examples. I mean that you
see around whether it's around Wellington, whether it's around the
regions I come from, where councils are having to make
tough decisions, whether they have or haven't. One of the
ones that hits the papers recently has been Hodefena's decision
not to mow booms and mowing lawns turns out to
(13:29):
be a big issue for some people, right, but they
have made the decision that actually the feedback, overwhelming feedback
they had was people would rather have lower rates than
pay for counselor to go and mow the lawns on booms.
That's a good example of council making a tough decision.
You know, as I look at Molesworth Street and Wellington
and see that we've lost half the lanes and most
of the car parks for the odd cyclist, you know,
(13:51):
I have to question if that's money well spent.
Speaker 5 (13:53):
Yeah. So this is how we end up with big
problems in our countries is where politicians get hooked on
distractions like isshoes that are fifty thousand dollars here or
there in a council's balance sheet, and not on the
big picture, which is that our councils, particularly in Wellington,
are under massive pressure because of the water infrastructure costs,
absolutely massive.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
What do you think of that moles Re Street? You've
been out there lately?
Speaker 5 (14:15):
I have not. It's on my to do list because i've.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Heard it left instead of dirty. Right, You've come out
of the Parliament, You've got to go, You've got to
go through it.
Speaker 5 (14:24):
Yeah. Sorry, I well, if you come out of the
car park, Oh sorry, I'm sorry. Yeah. Yeah. So the
so the challenges because the government's water program now does
not include the ability for councils to use the Crown
balance sheet to borrow for their water. Water infrastructure has
become more expensive and that is what is driving up
(14:46):
our rates in Wellington. So we can I couldn't think
of a better example of government directly driving up costs
for for rate payers in New Zealand than this decision.
Speaker 6 (14:59):
So that's that's not what's happened now. Local Water Dunwell
tackles that.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
But look, the key point here is then inflation coming
down brings down in sustrates, it brings down costs for envigie.
Prices have actually dropped over the last year under our government.
You know, costs are coming down. Keys are left and
when you with more at the end of the week.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
And when you.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
Couple that with the tax relief that we delivered at
the budget, the tax relief that was opposed by labor.
When you deliver you when you deliver that alongside things
like our early childhood family boost payment that goes back
to families, Actually a lot of keys are going to
find that they are starting to be better off under
any government. That's absolutely true. And when we deliver that,
(15:37):
they said, oh, if you're going to get tax relief,
it's going to be inflation reaf rate. Flation has come down.
People have more money left at the end of the week.
Speaker 5 (15:45):
This is absolutely this is the easiest rubbish to oppose
I've ever had. You ask any well in Coronia. Is
their plate increases anywhere near compensated for by tax tax cuts?
Absolutely not. That decision Affordable water.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
One maybe one and a half percent off mortgage rate
by the end of the year. That is a significant
amount that will potentially be more saving than it than
it is. You know, that could be one hundred bucks
a week if you're on a five hundred thousand dollars mortgage,
and there'll be many people here on more than that.
Speaker 6 (16:19):
Actually, this is significant.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Right, Let's move on. I thought the Reserve Bank besides that,
not the government. But anyway, let's let's not split hairs
on this one. TV and Z poll on Monday night,
Nationals on thirty seven percent, Labors on twenty nine percent.
When it comes to popularity, thirty seven percent seems pretty
low for a government, major party, and is that a
little bit disappointing.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
For you to not?
Speaker 4 (16:42):
I think look to show that our supporters held up
through the last year. We've just been talking about some
of the tough decisions we had to make, and the
impact of those is just starting to be felt. With
those interest rates coming down, with the economy in a
position to rebuild.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
What are you going to boost those numbers though you
really need those numbers too well.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
I think people are really going to see the impact
of these decisions over the next couple of years. And
it takes time to feed through and to turn this
big ship around, but the early signs are there. It's
really encouraging, and you don't have to look far off
shore to see governments that in their first term have
really struggled to even maintain support from the election. So
I'm really confident in what we are doing as a
(17:19):
government to rebuild the economy, to restore law in order
to deliver better health and education, and over the next
couple of years that will just continue to shine through
and I think we'll see that bill as we get
closer to the election.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
HI show only fifty four percent of people thought and
that poll that Chris Hipkins would remain as Labor leader.
Do you think he'll be there? He had a bet
with me, not only that he would be there, but
he would be Prime Minister at the next election.
Speaker 5 (17:42):
Yeah. Well, I'm looking forward to you giving one thousand
dollars to a good local charity.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
I'll get you involved in that charity.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
You could be involved with that too.
Speaker 5 (17:50):
Yeah, no, that'll be fun. But look, and the other
finding of that poll was that seventy five percent of
Labor supporters back to Chris Hopkins, and I think he's
correct that we are where we need to be. We
had a big defeat at the election. That's sure a
year on, our polling is creeping up where slightly narrowing
the gap that we had. So if you look at
the second six months of this term, they're better for
(18:13):
us in the first six months, and we just need
to keep building on that solidly to get a platform
you campaign on in twenty.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Six Okay, sorry to interrupt there. I was a bit
rood of me I really wanted and I've got a
bit excited. I really want to ask you why the
name Karen mcinaughty does not disappear. It just keeps coming back. Now,
that just can't be media. It's got to be somewhere.
Someone's getting that from somewhere.
Speaker 5 (18:34):
Yeah, well it's not from within the Labor Party, I
can tell you, because Karen's an absolute loyal trooper helps
Christen innumerable ways, and I've not seen anything that suggests
to me that he's interested in anything other than doing
the good job he's doing.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Are you hearing that too too? You're not going to
say anything. You're one of those bloody guys that says
on the fence, have you had it?
Speaker 6 (18:56):
Look, I just have very little interest in what the
Labor Party's up to.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Well, it's not very nice is it. Fifteen percent of
people have their have him as their per third prime minister,
while twenty five percent have had luxed them lux them.
So obviously Chris Sipson's got a problem.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
I assuran, it's just not going away.
Speaker 5 (19:15):
I don't I don't think so. I think when New
Zealanders reflect on some of the antics of this government
tax breaks for tobacco companies, rolling back gun laws, dirty
deals on environmental projects in the fast Track Bill, I
think they're going to look to someone who is more
(19:36):
reliable and trusted and see them as a positive option.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
I really want to ask you this. I shall will
you here and I'll get Tim's view on it too.
There's been a lot of talk about the hospital board
sending out memos saying you can't speak what language and
what you can and what you can't. Now you've worked
in this environment, you know what's going on. Have I
got anything to be concerned about? I I've got a
couple of people speaking a foreign language at my bedside.
Speaker 5 (19:58):
Well, I think if they're at your bedside, and for example,
one nurse is saying to the other next year is
antibiotics at four that should be in English, so that
you can understand it just in case something else happens
and you want to speak up at four o'clock and say, hey, nurse,
my antibiotics I do. However, there will be times when
people are just saying, hey, how are you. I haven't
(20:20):
seen you in a while, and that might well be
in front of patients. Nurses spend their entire day in
front of patients, so I think those sorts of.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
So should it concern you when you were in the hospitals,
When you were working in the hospitals, did you get
concerned when a couple of nurses were talking in their
own native language in front of you, around you?
Speaker 5 (20:40):
No, because because people have other languages and we are
a very multicultural workforce. But absolutely parts of the conversation
that are about patient safety, whether that's to the patient
or around the patient, that has to be a language.
Everyone understands. What's gone wrong here is that Health New
(21:00):
Zealand has a workforce that include is very multicultural. The
workforce is under considerable will pressure because of the nursing cuts,
and I think managers have sort of over rigged it
in their letter and not being particularly sensitive that we
need overseas workers looking after our people right now, and
we're lucking.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
To have them.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Tim, have you got any thoughts on this when you
saw it, or did you concern you or did you think, oh,
that's happened to me a couple of times in life, or.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
Now, Look, I'm not concerned. I understand the safety aspect.
You know that has been highlighted through this about why
communication is important.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
You know this, Or you're an ex air force pilot.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
So if you're flying in foreign countries, apparently it's all
in English, is that right?
Speaker 4 (21:42):
So that's this And it's the same reason that they
use English here, right, is because around the world, if
you take off out of Paris and land in Berlin,
you'll still be speaking English because there needs to be
clear communication. And actually, in the medical field has adopted
a lot of the aviation procedures around human factors. Training
and communication is really important. I was helping a local
constituent recently who'd had some issues with the health system
(22:04):
and she was struggling to navigate it even with that
in English. It was about understanding why she had to
have a second operation after some pathology results. And when
I went and spoke to the professionals and explained to me.
I was like, okay, I understand now I could have
that conversation, but it just highlighted to me how important
is that people understand their treatment and what they're going through.
And the point actually makes about, you know, having those
(22:27):
conversations in a way that the patient can understand. The
language is obviously a big part of that, but just
in a way that they can understand what they're going through,
because for a lot of people this can be really
overwhelming there in a situation they're not they've never been
in before. So I do think that's important. But equally
we want to celebrate the diversity.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
Here we are. We're a diverse country. Thank you both
very much.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
I know you both got to go Aishaverel and Tim
Costly joined us for Politics Thursday. Thanks for taking your
time and coming into the studio. It's wonderful to see
you both.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
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You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk Said B focusing in on the issues
that matter politics Thursday on Wellington Mornings. News Talk said Bil.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
For politics this Thursday as Labour's health and Wellington's issues.
Spokesperson is Shaverral Good morning, I Sha, and O teke Mp.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Tim Costly, Good morning, Tim, Yes, good morning sir.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
We're just having a conversation or fair about the different
ratings of intelligence between the three of us. And I said,
one of you can fix my health, the other one
can fly me home, so I'm coming third pretty quickly.
And then the discussion went to could you Tim Costly?
I mean, I know that you're a helicopter pilot, but
if I was on a seven three seven and a
(01:01):
airbus flying to Auckland and both pilots went down and
I'm sitting next to you, could you out the front
and land?
Speaker 4 (01:07):
Well, I probably beat myself more than me more than
you might beat yourself. I did spend a bit of
time flying planes and teaching people to fly planes in
the Air Force as well. But you've got to bat
yourself to have a go, don't you know. That's part
of being a pilot is just ruthless confidence.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
And if I had a heart attack, I sure you'd
be able to start doing something to me to try
and keep me alive, wouldn't you.
Speaker 5 (01:24):
Absolutely I had a baby, I could probably deliver it
at a streach too.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
I reckon you have real trouble delivering a baby from me.
I think even you as powerful and it's as as smart,
as good a doctor as you. I think if you
could deliver a baby from me, I show you should
be somewhere else rather than there talking to me.
Speaker 6 (01:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Right, Let's talk about some very serious matters. Let's start
with the Worlington City Council. Mayor Tory Farno has just
met with local government Minister Simi and Brown this morning
after the government essentially threatened intervening. Nikola Willis called the
council as shambles, Chris Bishop called it chamozzle, but Tori
says everything is fine. I'll start with you on this.
(02:04):
Iha as you are Willington's issues spokesperson. Is the point
where government needs to get involved?
Speaker 5 (02:11):
No, I don't think so. But let's take a step
back and say Wellington does have serious problems. Some of
them relate two assues that the Council needs to work on.
That includes the state of our infrastructure, and they seem
to have some particular challenges around around insurance, but some
(02:32):
of them are the governments creating, including the state of
our economy because of the public sector layoffs that we've had.
What seems to be going on now is that we've
had a democratic decision to not sell the airport shares,
and that's created a situation where the Council needs to
go back and make some decisions for its long term plan.
That is not the end of the world. Neither is
(02:54):
any of this conversation that's going on about appointing a
commissioner or a Crown well, a Crown observer. I mean,
that will be just a sort of bureaucratic step to
make it look like some thing is being done. So
I think there's In the last forty eight hours, there's
been a lot of hype about this story, with those
comments from Nikola Willis and Chris Bishop sort of ramping
(03:14):
up the hype. Few meetings yesterday made it seem like
it's all all a big deal. But the fact is
the Council, and I'm pleased to hear they're heading in
this direction. Need to sit down and get into the
boring work of writing a new plan.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Have you had any intervention whatsoever? You are the oppositions
Willington's issue, spokessiness.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Have you called Torri and had a chat to it?
Speaker 5 (03:33):
I haven't called her since yesterday. No, but we've talked
through these issues and meetings before.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Okay, good on you, Tim, you're a lecterer. They must
be sitting back because they're our neighbors and they look
at us as a big brother, and they'll be sitting
there laughing at us, are they.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
Ah, Look, I'm I'm I'm glad I live in hot
A Fenna and companies.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
You've got to pla town too. You've got to place
in town too.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
Remember, Well, look, I think it's the consistent feedback I
hear on the streets here is that that people are
genuinely concerned about this. Right, Everything's not fine. This is
this is significant when there's a four to six hundred
million dollar a gap now in the in the long
term plan. There there appears to be, you know, significant
dysfunction of the council, very confusing messaging coming out over
the last few weeks through you know, including interviews on
(04:16):
this show, which probably haven't helped. So I think people
are genuinely concerned about what the future means and what
that means for their rates bill.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
And do you think the government will take it seriously
enough or not?
Speaker 6 (04:26):
I think we are taking it seriously. You know, well
we haven't.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
We haven't, to be fair to them, we haven't seen
anything yet. We've seen a lot of talk.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
Well, I think you know it's it's a very high
threshold for a minister to intervene. And that's and that's
what you just heard from from Asher as well, to
be fair, So I don't think you want everyone just
leaping in at the first moment. But this is absolutely serious.
The Minister is monitoring it closely. The one thing we
know isn't causing this. Just to pick up what I
just said, is is the state of the economy right.
(04:53):
The economy is doing great. We've got inflation down. I
don't know how you could try and attribute this.
Speaker 5 (04:59):
Great. We've had a number of businesses shut down and
it's because the customers are out of work.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Yeah, And I mean you can't re Beyonnest with a
straight face tell us that things are good and wanting
to with all those staff that have.
Speaker 6 (05:10):
Lost jobs across the country. But everything's taken some of.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
It's responsible for you guys for getting rid of some
staff too, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Are you not taking that on the chin?
Speaker 4 (05:20):
Well, I'm taking on the chin that we made the
tough decisions, which is why we now have inflation down
at two point two percent, a year ahead of where
it would have been on all productions even a year ago.
So absolutely we made some tough decisions. Yes, that has
an impact on maybe a local cafe that sees a
few less people coming in. You, we have to do
this to get the country, to rebuild the economy and
(05:40):
to get get all that in the right direction.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Get all that, I get all that talk, But I mean,
are you trying to tell us that everything's okay in Wellington?
The economy in Wellington's okay, and everything's fixed and we're
back to normal.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Now.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
What I'm telling you is that the dysfunction we're seeing
a council is not caused by the decisions that our
government is making. What we are interested in is seeing
council come out now and provide some certainty to rate
payers and in what the long term plan is going
to look like and how they can deliver that over
the next ten years in a way that is fiscally
responsible and not going to just drive uprates.
Speaker 5 (06:13):
Yeah, but the challenge there is Wellington's got some of
the most acute infrastructure challenges because of the pipes in
the country. Our council needed an affordable solution for water
infrastructure in government. We offered that that has been repelled
by this government. So the challenge for our council and
(06:33):
the fact that our rates are going up in Wellington
is very much because of the decisions made by the
national government and I think you have to owned that too,
as well as the state of the local economy.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
Well I absolutely own getting rid of their three Waters
plan and bringing local water done well because you can't
say that you're saving money by the taxpayer bailing people out.
The taxpayer the rate payer of the same person, right,
We have to look at how we can use the
funds that are available more effectively so we don't drive
up inflation and drive up costs and make life harder
for every day key.
Speaker 5 (07:04):
We so using the balance sheet of the to make
the water infrastructure. Take the water infrastructure off the council box.
Was the purpose of the affordable water reforms. We haven't
seen the local solution and so we are still at
risk of considerable rate increases in Wellington.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
I want to ask you both very quickly what your
decision would have been, because this has all stemmed from
the fact that the airport shares didn't sell. This is
where the problem's been created. Do you think we Washington
should sell the city council should have actually sold the
shares in Wellington Airport?
Speaker 5 (07:34):
No, I don't. It is a strategic asset for the city.
It brings a return to the city that otherwise would
be on rate payers, and I have not seen a
compelling argument about how this insurance proposal is going to work,
(07:56):
which is the counter argument that proposal hasn't totally stacked
up in my mind.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Jim Costly, do you think Wonnington should have sold the shares?
Speaker 4 (08:04):
I'm just not jumping into that councilor elected to make
those decisions on behalf of the community. Now, what they
need to do is actually deliver a long term plan
that can keep rights under control and deliver for the
local people here.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Do you both, either of you have an opinion on
whether Torifano can actually lead us out of this? Do
you think that she's the right person to get us
through the next period of type.
Speaker 5 (08:25):
Actually, it's funny how I was just I just think
council politics are so much harder than parliamentary politics because
if you're in government in parliament, that means you've got
a majority in parliament. But of course being a mere
looks just incredibly tough. Is my conclusion from this whole set.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
It wasn't really the question do you think that she
can lead us through? You've just said you spoke to
her yesterday.
Speaker 5 (08:45):
I think that is not a question just on Tory.
That is a question on all the councilors, including those
from the left and from the right, to be more collaborative.
The city needs them to do that now.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
But isn't that a leadership thing.
Speaker 5 (08:57):
It's not just a leadership if it does require every
councilor now to think we do need to get a
long term plan and the best interests.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Of the Sorry, I'll put it a little bit more
simply so, because I really want to get an answer
from you, Aisha, because you are Wellington's you know, a
spokesperson for your party, is Tory Fano a good mayor
for Wellington.
Speaker 5 (09:17):
I think she can be, but she will need the
collaboration of her counselors to get a plan.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Okay, so she's not a good mayor right now, but.
Speaker 5 (09:24):
Could we I think she's It's a real difficult situation
she's in. That's fork, that's for sure. But I don't
think the blame for this situation that the city or
the long term plan is in can be helped put
at the feet of entirely one person.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Tim COSTI what do you think.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
I think it's not helpful if I start racing meyors
one way or the other. You know, I understand why
people have.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
You've got a gut feeling. You live half your life
in the city. Now you've got a place in town,
so you spend a bit of time in here. I mean,
do you feel that the city's under it's right guidance
and the Tory is the right person to do it?
Speaker 3 (09:54):
Either yes or no.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
I think the city's facing challenges. I think we need
to see more leadership. I mean, I think you've seen
the mayor come out and say she can understand why
people are concerned and she's not going to fight any
decisions that are made from here. You know that this
is the time that we need to see leaders step up.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Okay, Tim, I want to start with you on this.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Inflation's down to its last level in three years, hitting
two point two percent. How big a news is, How
big a deal is it actually for the economy?
Speaker 4 (10:17):
That's huge? Right, this is huge. Everone in the room
will be smiling. We are finally back down in that
target ban one to three percent. This is amazing. You know,
we came in at the election we campaign on and
we'll give them one key job above all the others,
which was to tackle the cost of living and rebuild
the economy. This is the point at which all the
bleeding has been stopped. We're back down to where we
should be.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
It is taking the credit for something that reserve bank
here sounds.
Speaker 5 (10:40):
Like it isn't it.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
Absolutely, we're taking the credit because the very first thing
we did when we came in was send them back
to a single mandate, because that's how important it is.
We've cut the wasteful spending. We're prioritizing where the money
goes and making the tough decisions that we talked about
just in the last section about how you know people
saying well, you've done things that had an.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Sorry to interrupt that to them, but you have spent
more than labor did well.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
But we're spending it in the right areas. It's not
inflationary spending. It's targeted to provide those better pub services,
to restore or in order to deliver better health care
and education. Getting this inflation down to the right level
is so critical because it means, as we've already seen
interest rates coming down and they will come down further.
That means mortgage holders have a few more dollars at
(11:22):
the end of the week, businesses can invest the money
they need create that growth. This is such a fantastic
news and really critical in something our government's incredibly proud of.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Does the Reserve Bank now need to get really bold
seventy five points in November? Do you reckon they really
need to get bold now or does that make them
out to be that they made the mistake in the
first place.
Speaker 5 (11:42):
Lock I'm not a renowned commentator on the Reserve Bank.
I think the New Zealanders will welcome the interest rates
coming down, and they have come down as they were
predicted to come down before the elections. I think that's
a bit of a to the spin cycle over there.
This is exactly as it was tracking before the election.
(12:03):
The challenge for people going about their everyday lives is
our economy is still really really sluggish. Yes, inflation on
tradeables down, but not on non tradeables. People are still
finding rates are high, rents are high, and we've got
increasing unemployment. It's still projected to go up further because
(12:23):
of these decisions at the Reserve banker is making to
bring down inflation. So it's not at all as rosy picture,
and the government has a lot of work to do
if it is to see that some of its policy
initiatives coming through into real growth in our economy.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
It's interesting that inflation would have actually been much low
if it wasn't for council rates across the country. They
increased by twelve point two percent, and warnington's a hell
of a lot worse than that last year. Our rates
now becoming a big problem here with inflation.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
I think the cost of living generally has been a
real challenge for keys. That's why this is so important
that we tackle this.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
And I want to specifically talk about rates.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
I mean, how do we get the local bodies to
get those under controlled actually to generally help those people
in the pocket.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
Well, part of it is going to be about targeting
that spending in the right areas. And you know, as
you I could give you examples. I mean that you
see around whether it's around Wellington, whether it's around the
regions I come from, where councils are having to make
tough decisions, whether they have or haven't. One of the
ones that hits the papers recently has been Hodefena's decision
not to mow booms and mowing lawns turns out to
(13:29):
be a big issue for some people, right, but they
have made the decision that actually the feedback, overwhelming feedback
they had was people would rather have lower rates than
pay for counselor to go and mow the lawns on booms.
That's a good example of council making a tough decision.
You know, as I look at Molesworth Street and Wellington
and see that we've lost half the lanes and most
of the car parks for the odd cyclist, you know,
(13:51):
I have to question if that's money well spent.
Speaker 5 (13:53):
Yeah. So this is how we end up with big
problems in our countries is where politicians get hooked on
distractions like isshoes that are fifty thousand dollars here or
there in a council's balance sheet, and not on the
big picture, which is that our councils, particularly in Wellington,
are under massive pressure because of the water infrastructure costs,
absolutely massive.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
What do you think of that moles Re Street? You've
been out there lately?
Speaker 5 (14:15):
I have not. It's on my to do list because i've.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Heard it left instead of dirty. Right, You've come out
of the Parliament, You've got to go, You've got to
go through it.
Speaker 5 (14:24):
Yeah. Sorry, I well, if you come out of the
car park, Oh sorry, I'm sorry. Yeah. Yeah. So the
so the challenges because the government's water program now does
not include the ability for councils to use the Crown
balance sheet to borrow for their water. Water infrastructure has
become more expensive and that is what is driving up
(14:46):
our rates in Wellington. So we can I couldn't think
of a better example of government directly driving up costs
for for rate payers in New Zealand than this decision.
Speaker 6 (14:59):
So that's that's not what's happened now. Local Water Dunwell
tackles that.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
But look, the key point here is then inflation coming
down brings down in sustrates, it brings down costs for envigie.
Prices have actually dropped over the last year under our government.
You know, costs are coming down. Keys are left and
when you with more at the end of the week.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
And when you.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
Couple that with the tax relief that we delivered at
the budget, the tax relief that was opposed by labor.
When you deliver you when you deliver that alongside things
like our early childhood family boost payment that goes back
to families, Actually a lot of keys are going to
find that they are starting to be better off under
any government. That's absolutely true. And when we deliver that,
(15:37):
they said, oh, if you're going to get tax relief,
it's going to be inflation reaf rate. Flation has come down.
People have more money left at the end of the week.
Speaker 5 (15:45):
This is absolutely this is the easiest rubbish to oppose
I've ever had. You ask any well in Coronia. Is
their plate increases anywhere near compensated for by tax tax cuts?
Absolutely not. That decision Affordable water.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
One maybe one and a half percent off mortgage rate
by the end of the year. That is a significant
amount that will potentially be more saving than it than
it is. You know, that could be one hundred bucks
a week if you're on a five hundred thousand dollars mortgage,
and there'll be many people here on more than that.
Speaker 6 (16:19):
Actually, this is significant.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Right, Let's move on. I thought the Reserve Bank besides that,
not the government. But anyway, let's let's not split hairs
on this one. TV and Z poll on Monday night,
Nationals on thirty seven percent, Labors on twenty nine percent.
When it comes to popularity, thirty seven percent seems pretty
low for a government, major party, and is that a
little bit disappointing.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
For you to not?
Speaker 4 (16:42):
I think look to show that our supporters held up
through the last year. We've just been talking about some
of the tough decisions we had to make, and the
impact of those is just starting to be felt. With
those interest rates coming down, with the economy in a
position to rebuild.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
What are you going to boost those numbers though you
really need those numbers too well.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
I think people are really going to see the impact
of these decisions over the next couple of years. And
it takes time to feed through and to turn this
big ship around, but the early signs are there. It's
really encouraging, and you don't have to look far off
shore to see governments that in their first term have
really struggled to even maintain support from the election. So
I'm really confident in what we are doing as a
(17:19):
government to rebuild the economy, to restore law in order
to deliver better health and education, and over the next
couple of years that will just continue to shine through
and I think we'll see that bill as we get
closer to the election.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
HI show only fifty four percent of people thought and
that poll that Chris Hipkins would remain as Labor leader.
Do you think he'll be there? He had a bet
with me, not only that he would be there, but
he would be Prime Minister at the next election.
Speaker 5 (17:42):
Yeah. Well, I'm looking forward to you giving one thousand
dollars to a good local charity.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
I'll get you involved in that charity.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
You could be involved with that too.
Speaker 5 (17:50):
Yeah, no, that'll be fun. But look, and the other
finding of that poll was that seventy five percent of
Labor supporters back to Chris Hopkins, and I think he's
correct that we are where we need to be. We
had a big defeat at the election. That's sure a
year on, our polling is creeping up where slightly narrowing
the gap that we had. So if you look at
the second six months of this term, they're better for
(18:13):
us in the first six months, and we just need
to keep building on that solidly to get a platform
you campaign on in twenty.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Six Okay, sorry to interrupt there. I was a bit
rood of me I really wanted and I've got a
bit excited. I really want to ask you why the
name Karen mcinaughty does not disappear. It just keeps coming back. Now,
that just can't be media. It's got to be somewhere.
Someone's getting that from somewhere.
Speaker 5 (18:34):
Yeah, well it's not from within the Labor Party, I
can tell you, because Karen's an absolute loyal trooper helps
Christen innumerable ways, and I've not seen anything that suggests
to me that he's interested in anything other than doing
the good job he's doing.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Are you hearing that too too? You're not going to
say anything. You're one of those bloody guys that says
on the fence, have you had it?
Speaker 6 (18:56):
Look, I just have very little interest in what the
Labor Party's up to.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Well, it's not very nice is it. Fifteen percent of
people have their have him as their per third prime minister,
while twenty five percent have had luxed them lux them.
So obviously Chris Sipson's got a problem.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
I assuran, it's just not going away.
Speaker 5 (19:15):
I don't I don't think so. I think when New
Zealanders reflect on some of the antics of this government
tax breaks for tobacco companies, rolling back gun laws, dirty
deals on environmental projects in the fast Track Bill, I
think they're going to look to someone who is more
(19:36):
reliable and trusted and see them as a positive option.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
I really want to ask you this. I shall will
you here and I'll get Tim's view on it too.
There's been a lot of talk about the hospital board
sending out memos saying you can't speak what language and
what you can and what you can't. Now you've worked
in this environment, you know what's going on. Have I
got anything to be concerned about? I I've got a
couple of people speaking a foreign language at my bedside.
Speaker 5 (19:58):
Well, I think if they're at your bedside, and for example,
one nurse is saying to the other next year is
antibiotics at four that should be in English, so that
you can understand it just in case something else happens
and you want to speak up at four o'clock and say, hey, nurse,
my antibiotics I do. However, there will be times when
people are just saying, hey, how are you. I haven't
(20:20):
seen you in a while, and that might well be
in front of patients. Nurses spend their entire day in
front of patients, so I think those sorts of.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
So should it concern you when you were in the hospitals,
When you were working in the hospitals, did you get
concerned when a couple of nurses were talking in their
own native language in front of you, around you?
Speaker 5 (20:40):
No, because because people have other languages and we are
a very multicultural workforce. But absolutely parts of the conversation
that are about patient safety, whether that's to the patient
or around the patient, that has to be a language.
Everyone understands. What's gone wrong here is that Health New
(21:00):
Zealand has a workforce that include is very multicultural. The
workforce is under considerable will pressure because of the nursing cuts,
and I think managers have sort of over rigged it
in their letter and not being particularly sensitive that we
need overseas workers looking after our people right now, and
we're lucking.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
To have them.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Tim, have you got any thoughts on this when you
saw it, or did you concern you or did you think, oh,
that's happened to me a couple of times in life, or.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
Now, Look, I'm not concerned. I understand the safety aspect.
You know that has been highlighted through this about why
communication is important.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
You know this, Or you're an ex air force pilot.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
So if you're flying in foreign countries, apparently it's all
in English, is that right?
Speaker 4 (21:42):
So that's this And it's the same reason that they
use English here, right, is because around the world, if
you take off out of Paris and land in Berlin,
you'll still be speaking English because there needs to be
clear communication. And actually, in the medical field has adopted
a lot of the aviation procedures around human factors. Training
and communication is really important. I was helping a local
constituent recently who'd had some issues with the health system
(22:04):
and she was struggling to navigate it even with that
in English. It was about understanding why she had to
have a second operation after some pathology results. And when
I went and spoke to the professionals and explained to me.
I was like, okay, I understand now I could have
that conversation, but it just highlighted to me how important
is that people understand their treatment and what they're going through.
And the point actually makes about, you know, having those
(22:27):
conversations in a way that the patient can understand. The
language is obviously a big part of that, but just
in a way that they can understand what they're going through,
because for a lot of people this can be really
overwhelming there in a situation they're not they've never been
in before. So I do think that's important. But equally
we want to celebrate the diversity.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
Here we are. We're a diverse country. Thank you both
very much.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
I know you both got to go Aishaverel and Tim
Costly joined us for Politics Thursday. Thanks for taking your
time and coming into the studio. It's wonderful to see
you both.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
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Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.