Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Gary and Shannon and you're listening to KFI
AM six forty, the Gary and Shannon Show on demand
on the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
We went through and found some of our recent segments
that we thought you might want to redo, you know,
revisit in your own head so enjoy this one. A
lot of headlines lately involve Iran tangentially because of the
connection to President Trump's recent trip to Middle East, to
the Israel Gaza conflict that's playing out, any potential relationship
(00:29):
that Iran has with Russia in terms of Russia and Ukraine.
Right now, Iran's got it's kind of got its feelers
in a lot of a lot of things that are
going on around the world. The Supreme Leader in Iran
last out at President Trump in a televised address, said
he's a disgrace, said he was dishonest, declared that he
lies about claims to use American power for peace. All
(00:52):
of this showed up on Iranian state television, and because
this is so relevant right now, we wanted to talk
with Nick Berg, who at times was living in Iran
and is an author about a great book that's a
semi autobiographical I suppose called Shadows of Tehran from Irani
(01:14):
and rebel to American Special Forces. And it's a story
that the shadows Nick's own life. So joining us now
to talk about all of this is Nick Berg.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Nick. Thanks for taking time for us today.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
Thank you, Gary, I really appreciate being on your show.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Explain explain early life. What was baby Nick like and
where were you?
Speaker 4 (01:36):
Yeah, so I grew up in Iran. I actually grew
up in Tehran. My mom is Irani and my father
is American. And this was pre revolution, pre all of that.
During the when the Shaw was in Iran and I
grew up, I came to United States for a short period,
went back to Iran and lived through the revolution, the
(01:58):
Iran and Iraq War, and all of that until I
had to really get out of Iran because of certain
things I did against the Islamic government of Iran, and
basically moved to the United States. So the book is
about living in kind of two different worlds my whole life.
In Iran, I was considered the American kid, and in
(02:20):
America I was considered the Iranian. So they were really
having a home and really understanding where I belong. So
the book is about all of that, but it's kind
of fiction is historical. There's a lot of fiction in
it as well, so it's kind of a blend of
all of those things. I wanted to really show how
(02:42):
people like me, that immigrants as well as being living
in a country like Iran, feels like during those times.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
How old were when you were you when you came
to the US for good?
Speaker 4 (02:56):
I was nineteen years old, So how do.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
You make that decision that's right about the time that
you would have to enlist in the military.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
How do you make that decision?
Speaker 4 (03:05):
Well, when I when I came to the United States
able to just part times to say the least is
uh uh. I befriended an army recruiter and he basically said,
you want three meals a day and a place to sleep,
I got it for you. Sign up here. So that's
what I did.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
And you you make your way through which branch of
the military are you serving? I was in the Army
and then you made your way up to special operations?
Speaker 3 (03:32):
What was that? What was that? Did you?
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Is that what your the plan was when you enlisted
or did it just kind of come through your trials
and tribulations in the Army.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
It just came through trials and tribulations in the army.
When I first took the as test, I aced everything
except the English because English I had. I was still
learned in English at that point, and the only thing
I qualified for was infantry. So that's where I started,
and that's where I started, and kind of one after
(04:02):
the other, it just kind of happened. I ended up
in special operations.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
After the military, you get out of the army and
you you get into the world of technology. What was
that tell us about that transition?
Speaker 4 (04:17):
Yeah, the transition wasn't wasn't easy. But I started working
for IBM in Saudi Arabia because I speak Arabic as well,
So I started working for IBM in Saudi Arabia and
that was my first introduction into UH into the civilian world.
(04:38):
I learned how different it is than the military world,
and how working as a civilian in a big corporation
kind of feels like. And I kind of liked it,
and I kind of took off from there just working there.
But the biggest difference was is just learning how to
operate in a civilian world and learning the culture in
(04:59):
the civilian world.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
We're talking with Nick Berg, American author former special operations
in the US Army, a new book called Shadows of Tehran,
and as Nick mentioned, sort of a semi autobiographical story
about a young guy born and raised in Iran but
comes to the United States. Your your travels back to
(05:21):
the Middle East as an American having served in the
military but with Iranian roots, how are you received by
members of other Arab countries?
Speaker 4 (05:31):
Well, the Arab countries? It was. It was interesting because
my first trip back into Saudi Arabia was during First
Golf War. I was still in the army and being
in the Army and working as a operator and a
translator at the same time during those times, and going
(05:52):
was one of the first teams that inside of Kuwait
City and all of that, and they kind of they
were very receptive to me at that time because it
was they kind of saw me as a guy that
understands at least their culture and their environment and those
types of things. Because nowadays we got the Internet and
everything else, people are a lot more educated about different cultures,
(06:15):
but back then it wasn't as prevalent. Like a lot
of the troops that I went through that I never
seen a mosk in their life before the prayer calls
that will come on, they had no idea what that was.
And so that cultural understanding it was really important and
(06:37):
it helped working with our solid counterparts during that time.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Did you feel that kind of brings up a question
that I thought of was did you feel like you
had to Obviously, as a courtesy you would explain some
of these things to the people in your unit, but
that you became a cultural translator as opposed to just
a language translator. You had to explain why things were
the way they were where you guys were.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
Yeah. Absolutely absolutely. I remember an incident that we were
driving in a military truck downtown Real and there was
two guys walking down the street holding hands and a
lot of the guys looked at me and like, did
they allow gay people here? I'm like, no, this is
not about sexuality at all. It's a cultural thing. It's
okay for guys to hold hands and walk around the
(07:28):
streets with each other. And that was like a funny
thing that everybody started looking at me like is that real.
I'm like, yeah, it's not a gay thing at all.
It's just that's how the culture here kind of works.
And there was a lot of those types of incidents.
Another incident was we were at the center that we
(07:50):
were kind of there allowed us to camp at the center,
and we were talking to people from Saudi Arabia over there,
and one of the guys walked up to a bookshelf
and after Quran and started looking at it. And then
the Saudi is completely freaked out and I have to
explain to the saw these these guys don't understand what
it is, and they don't know that you have to
wash before you touch the Koran. And it was a
(08:13):
really interesting time to kind of explain it to both
sides of the teams of how to kind of interact
with each other and how all of that kind of works.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
All right, Nick, do you have another segment? Can you
stick around for a few more minutes? Sure, Okay, because
I have some questions specifically about life in Iran. You
came out, like you said, right before the revolution, so
there is a difference just after. Okay, So but there, Yeah,
there's a different world there now than there was forty
(08:47):
five years ago. So we'll talk about that and some
of the current events that are going on.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Again.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
We're talking with Nick Berg, author, former special operations operator
for the US Army born in Tehran specifically.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
I hope you're.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Enjoying this special Memorial Day weekend recap some of our
best stuff that we've done over the last couple of weeks.
Speaker 5 (09:07):
You're listening to Gary and Shannon on demand from KFI
AM six forty.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Special Memorial Day edition of the show. Today, I'm not here,
Shannon's not here. We'll both be back tomorrow. I give
you all the updated news about what's going on. So
this is one of our best of segments.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Enjoy.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
We're talking with the author of a new book called
Shadows of Tehran.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
I think it's called auto fiction, sort of.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Truth based fictional story about a guy who was born
in Tehran. Life is thrown into chaos when his American
father abandons the family just as the Revolution of nineteen
seventy nine is breaking out in Iran, and it echoes
a lot of what nick Berg went through in his
early life. In the book, Ricardo of course joined Special Forces,
(09:59):
as does as does nick Berg in real life. And
Nick I wanted to ask you, if you can answer
the question without giving away secrets, when was the last
time you were in Iran?
Speaker 4 (10:12):
Last time I was I was in Iran officially was
nineteen eighty seven. Official officially, I can say that.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
That's kind of what I figured.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Well, I mean, obviously you were old enough to absorb
and to be an observer of Iranian culture, especially since
that's obviously where you grew up. And then you compare
it to American culture. What do you think are some
misconceptions about Iranian culture that Americans or other people in
the world don't quite understand.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
I think one of the biggest misconceptions is that Iran
is kind of like the rest of the most of
the other Arabian countries in the Persian Gulf, Iran has
a very unique culture that is very different than the
rest of the Arabian countries. Iranians are Persians, which is
very different culture as Loam was kind of forced upon
(11:09):
them in a long, long time ago, and they still
maintained that culture. The original Iranian or Persian religion was Russianism,
and there's stills Russians in Iran that lived there, And
so there's a lot of misconception that Iranians are like
(11:31):
the rest of the world. And one thing I would
say about Iran is, even though the government is hostile
to America and to the rest of the Western world.
Their people are not. I would probably say, even because
I still have a lot of contacts in Iran, eighty
to ninety percent of Iranian people are supporters of America
and supporters of what the American lifestyle. They're very progressive country,
(11:57):
even though the government is not. It's kind of the
opposite of the rest of the Arabian countries that most
people are very conservative in their religion and in their views,
and the government is pro Western and pro America. It's
the opposite in Iran.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
Why is that? If that's the case.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
If eighty to ninety percent of America of Iranians are
pro America and the hostility between Iran and the United
States is government level, how come there hasn't been a
successful attempt to overthrow that government and get rid of
the Molas.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
There has been a lot of so going back a
little bit in history, the nineteen seventy nine revolution in
Iran was a really bloody revolution, and that is still
on a lot of people's minds. A lot of people
died in the streets, a lot of people got shot,
and all of that, and that is still on people's mind.
And then right after that, Giron and Iraq War started
(12:54):
and that was a really bloody conflict in that process.
So there's a lot of violence that has happened in there.
And since then there has been a lot of uprising.
The Green movement that happened, the woman Life Freedom movement
that happened, a lot of those things, and it was
put down viciously by the government of Iran. A lot
(13:15):
of people still today. I mean, Iran is one of
the countries that has the highest number of executions. There's
a there's a really strong force in Iran that is
basically scaring people of coming out and uprising. And every
time they thought that it almost it was almost there,
(13:36):
it kind of fell apart again. I think right now
in Iran, in today's Iran is the prime time. And
if if the US administration doesn't give them the reprieve
and they keep with the sanctions, this is the prime
time that right now they're dealing with a lot of
(13:57):
power out it just every day there's a lot of
protests going on. The country went backward, and even with
Trump being in the Middle East and showing basically what
the rest of the Gulf countries have become compared to
how backward Iran has stayed, basically stayed in the last
forty eight what it was in the last forty eight years,
(14:18):
no progress whatsoever. It's really waking people up that they
need to do something. And this was the prime time
right now.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
So the United States and Iranian officials wrapped up what
they said was the fourth round of talks in Oman
just earlier this month, speaking about the escalation of the
nuclear program there in Iran. What's your gut feeling on that?
Is there going to be some breakthrough? President Trump appeared
to be pretty positive towards the idea that we would
(14:48):
continue these discussions, we would continue to you know, sort
of reach an olive branch out to Iran, but that
they've got to come to the table and stop their
nuclear program. Where do you where do you see this going?
Speaker 4 (15:00):
I just don't think that's going to happen. I just
I'm not hopeful in that. And I just don't think
because Iran's government is really good at procrastinating. They have
for years have done maybe we'll talk, maybe they go
a little uh here, and then they take one step
forward and five steps back, And that has been their
(15:22):
strategy all along as they get a little bit of reprieve,
they clamp down internally on the people that are trying
to rise against them. They do all of that, and
then they go back to the to the old ways.
I think it's the time to just cut the head
of the snake right now, because they are the problem
in the whole world. The his Woe Lad, the Hamas,
(15:44):
the Whoti is. All of these guys are being supported
by Iran, and without that money, those guys would have
no power in the world. And just with Syria, what
happened is Syria, I think Persian Trump's move by taking
away the sanctions of a Siah was a very clever
process because Iran was hoping that Syria would stay under
(16:04):
those sanctions and they can't re re establish their base
over there with money, but President just took away that
from them. So I really don't think there's going to
be a resolution to this unless they Iranian government stoppem
nick Berg.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
The name of the book is Shadows of Tehran, a
new book that just came out based on his life story.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
P n Berg b E R G.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
P Nburg dot Com is where you're gonna find out
information about Nick You can also order the book Shadows
of Tehran all the information about the great charitable work
that you're doing as well. Hey, what a great a
great time. Thanks for thanks for letting us meet you.
Uh and thanks for your time today.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
I really appreciate it. Gary, thanks for having me on
your show.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Thanks neck appreciate it. Yeah again. P n Burg nick Burg.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
P ndburg dot com is where you're going to find
information about Nick about the book as well. My favorite
part though, is when he said officially the last time
he was in Iran and unofficially he can't comment. Yeah,
you're right, that was some of the best stuff we've
done recently.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
You're listening to Gary and Shannon on demand from KFI
AM six forty.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Have a great Memorial Day. We'll of course be back
at work tomorrow. But it's one of the segments we
did recently that we thought, you know, came in near
the top of the list when it came to good segments.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
So have fun.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Nowadays, there's a reliance on cell phones, right, everybody's got one.
Some weird number like ninety four percent of Americans over
the age of fifteen I think have cell phones. Yeah,
and we were talking earlier in the show about sort
of lamenting the loss of phone etiquette that if you're
under the age of say, I want to say, like thirty,
(17:53):
you probably never developed those skills of phone etiquette of
having to make phone calls. I think back when it
was in elementary school or junior high, high school, something
like that, and we would do a fundraiser for whatever,
and you're selling chocolates for the band or something. You
would have to get on the phone and you'd have
(18:15):
to contact Grandma, Grandpa, maybe a couple of neighbors or
family friends or stuff like that and ask them if
they'd be willing to support you.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
I remember going door to door for stuff like that,
door to door also, I also remember thinking this is
an awful idea. I'm eight, who are even these people?
Speaker 2 (18:31):
But we've gotten away from that very much so now,
and to the point where kids don't even know what
old phones look like in many cases, or why there's
a core attached like a rotary phone, why it's got
to be stuck on the wall, why you can't just
walk around the house with it. There is a push
(18:52):
for some parents of young kids, especially to use an
old landline to teach kids the very basics of phone etiquette.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Well, what's and I go back to my initial question
is why do you need a landline to teach phone etiquette?
Speaker 3 (19:07):
That's a good question.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
They said that if nothing else, the old school landline
was easier to install. And then again we're talking about
if you're if you're thirty five, and you're doing this
with your kids, you may find it easier to simply
plug in a landline phone. I don't know where you're
gonna find one, but to plug in a landline phone
(19:29):
and then to set up a whole internet.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
However, you would do it at your house.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
I guess it's because you when it's a landline, you
don't know who the person's calling. For a good point,
and you don't know who the person is when your
landline rings, it rings, but you don't know who that
who it is on the other end, and you don't
know who they're trying to reach. It could be anybody.
It's a real freaking surprise box. So you pick up
(19:55):
the phone and you say in a polite way, because
it could be the irs, It could be your grandmother,
it could be your friend Jessica from across the street,
but it could be any of these people. So you
have to respond like this, Hello. You can't be you
can't pick up the phone and go what's what the
F do you want? Or like what's up Grandma?
Speaker 4 (20:19):
Go?
Speaker 3 (20:20):
Or yeah, go for Gary, Go for Gary. You have to.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Talk to somebody, at least initially, like they could be
a variety of people in the world.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
Yeah. That that I didn't think about.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
The idea that you don't have caller ID on I mean,
I remember that was a if you had a phone
that had a separate box that somehow had caller ID
still didn't tell you a name, but it would give
you a number.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
See, you didn't need all these things to stimulate your
brain like candy crush. It was a stimulation when the
phone rang because you didn't know what that phone call
was about or who it was for. Was it for you?
Was it for your brother? I don't know, was it
for your mom? Is it your mom's friend? Doing the
thing with the mail? The mail used to be what's
in the mailbox?
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Did you race to the phone when it would ring?
Speaker 1 (21:09):
It depends. There were times when you did not want
the phone to ring. There were times when you did.
I remember when I was in high school, it was
a big deal to have your.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
Own line, yes, in your room, and.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
That was like, oh, you mean like your own separate
phone number and everything.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Well, it was first to have your own phone in
your room, which was something that my parents did capitulate too.
But that was essentially the same thing as having your
own line in my house, right. But the kids that
did have their own line, they were always kind of
like the dangerous crowd or like the spoiled or place.
(21:47):
Uh no, but just like maybe a little faster maybe,
you know, a little.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Faster touching your nose up like that, a little faster.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
You know, why do you need your own phone number
as a teenage girl.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Like I said, come on selling something.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
But yeah, and I remember everyone had when they were
getting their own phones in the room, and they were
those see through phones.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
Those were like the thing to get, oh, to see
the internal workings of the phone.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Yeah, those were very in.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
I found an old phone in my parents closet one time,
I mean like thirties forties old telephone, yeah, and was
able to hook it up to the phone jack in
my room, and that was the phone I had for
months until I got a cheap o radio check.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Well, in portable and this was all so exciting, and
it's like, now, it's so funny because you think about, well,
of course it's exciting because you think about, now you
can do whatever you want on your phone.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
You have all this freedom.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
But when the portable phone came out, you could take
the portable phone like to your room or whatever. And
was that a thing that you were allowed to join? Yeah, so,
like you didn't have to stand in the kitchen talking
to your friend in front of like family coming and
going or whatever, you know, and like the freedom of
being able to talk to your best friend in your
room and talk about like whatever was incredible. Like that
(23:05):
was that I can still feel the feeling of that
being a freedom. And now kids can do god knows
what and you never even know about it.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
And with that, we'll wrap up that segment.
Speaker 5 (23:20):
You're listening to Gary and Shannon on Demand from KFI
AM six forty.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
Shannon's not here today.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
I mean technically I'm not here today either because it
is Memorial Day and it is a federal holiday. But
we went through and found some of our recent segments
that we thought you might want to redo, you know,
revisit in your own head. So enjoy this one. Morgan
Latrelle had never smoked anything, never tried drugs in his life.
(23:48):
So this guy, former Navy seal, had to ask a
nurse for guidance on how to inhale ibogain.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
I think that's how you say it.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
This psychedelic drug that's part of a final step of
an intense three day experimental therapy. He had gone to
Mexico in twenty eighteen to take eyebo gain, which is illegal.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Here in the United States but.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Is gaining a reputation as being a potential treatment for PTSD.
Inhaling a separate drug called DMT was the final step
in this process.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Now here's what's interesting about Morgan Latrelle.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Not the fact that he suffered PTSD that's pretty common,
and not the fact that he has turned to psychedelics
to deal with PTSD that's actually becoming more common. It's
that this guy is now in his second term in
Congress and trying to use that platform as a way
(24:54):
to open doors for other military vets and others who
have suffered from PTSD to use psychedelics in their treatment.
He explains this is he said his journey was a
last resort for people who feel trapped within their own minds.
And he said that this would have been the religious equivalent,
(25:16):
would be an exorcism. Yeah, he threw up a lot,
he said, after repeated vomiting, he lay on a small
mattress at an indoor facility along with other Prince participants.
His eyes were closed. There were a flurry of colors, numbers,
and then math equations that were appearing in his head.
And he said it was liking it was a movie screen,
(25:37):
but it's a movie screen of my life. And he
said he saw flashes from his past, but that those
flashes helped him get a new perspective on some of
the life experiences that he had, the painful life experiences,
and that it helped him reborn, and he says it
helped save his marriage. Now, Congressman Morgan Latrelle out of
(26:03):
Texas is in a position where he didn't expect to be.
He wants to see his party, specifically more open towards
what he says could be life saving treatments that are
currently illegal in the United States. He's among a growing
group of lawmakers Republican lawmakers, many of them veteran Republican
(26:27):
lawmakers who are making the case for drugs at Day's
say can help address issues like PTSD and depression and
substance abuse that can be rampant among people who are
still suffering suffering from their experiences in their life in
the military, he said. In an interview, he said, I
had the inability to let the previous part of my
(26:48):
life go and to understand that my current life is
what's most important, and he argued that the path forward
needs to be medically based. Proponents want to see a
whole lot more research and funding in this. I don't
know how you wouldn't. I'm not a fan of psychedelics,
but I also don't take aspirin when I don't need to.
I'm not the one who is going to be deciding
(27:10):
this kind of a thing. And if you are dealing
with PTSD, how would you not want to use what
has worked in some people, or at least give it
a shot if science supports their claims. Some of these
members of Congress say they hope that the administration is
going to back their push to allow use of these
drugs in medically controlled environments. It's not a free for all,
(27:34):
it's a medically controlled environment. And they said that They
hope that these drugs can become part of structured treatments
with the ultimate goal of curbing the suicide epidemic that
has racked the veteran community. And you're talking drugs like IBA, gain, psilocybin, mushrooms,
of course, MDMA, MOLLI. There are some trials for psychedelics
(27:57):
that happen in various corners of the private sector of
the government. There are a handful of them in Veterans'
affairs as well as the Pentagon. But the FDA last
year rejected an md MDMA drug. They said they were
uncertain about the data, in a major setback at the
(28:18):
time for veterans groups. Doctor Joseph Ross, professor of medicine
at Yale, says he started a plenty of stories of
psychedelics having a dramatically positive impact on people's lives, but said,
you got to do this slowly, you got to do
it carefully. That trials so far had left a tremendous
amount of uncertainty before we're going to push the regulator
(28:40):
to approve it, the regular being the FDA, or have
the VA pay for it and expose a large number
of people to potential harms or sometimes sometimes the medicine
just doesn't work. Sometimes these therapies don't have the positive
impact that you're looking for. Double Blind studies can be
(29:02):
difficult where not only the doctor doesn't know what drug
you're getting, but you don't know what drug you're getting
because participants and the researchers could tell if they're receiving
the drug rather than a placebo. Because the immediate mental
effects and physical effects of these drugs in many cases,
and there is also a fear that if you make
these things available too much, too broadly to publicly, it
(29:26):
could be adding to the problems of recreational psychedelic use,
unsafe use, improper use, and that's going to set everything back.
But again, the ultimate goal being to cut down on
the number of suicides we have seen in the veteran
community over the last several years, which continue to rise.
(29:46):
In twenty twenty two, a report from the VA in
twenty twenty two, there were six thy, four hundred and
seven veteran suicide deaths in twenty twenty two, and the
rate for veteran suicides is about double that of non
veterans according to that report. So if this is if
this gets any sort of any sort of momentum, I
(30:07):
think you have to credit Morgan Latrelle, who himself has
gone through.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
It and is now a member of Congress.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Well look at that. Another hour in the books. We'll
come back with more of the best of the Gary
and Shannon Show right after this. You've been listening to
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