February 4, 2025 • 27 mins
Gary and Shannon have the latest trending stories during What’s Happening. Gary and Shannon also bring you a couple of odd stories during #TrueCrimeTuesday.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Gary and Shannon and you're listening to KFI
AM six forty, the Gary and Shannon Show on demand
on the iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
AP Gary and Shannon, would you like or share on
one of the prisons in l Salvador? Question mark, if
you saw a story about a prison in El Salvador,
would you like or share that?
Speaker 3 (00:22):
And why and why not?
Speaker 4 (00:25):
I'm not sure what the question.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
I think the question is is because you and I
both alluded to the fact that prison in Al Salvador
is not a club fed place to be. It's not
an easy amount of time to serve. I would imagine
wants us to show our math. He wants us to
show our math on that.
Speaker 5 (00:45):
One place to look. I saw a report from earlier
this morning on CNN. David Culver, one of the reporters,
spent some time in a place called say Kote, one
of the high security facilities that is terrifying. They actually
call it a prison for terrorists, a correctional center for terrorists.
But again that was on CNN. That's that's easy to
(01:07):
look up. David Culver is the reporter's name.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Gary, you are just the weirdest personality. I can't I
can't put my finger on it. But you know you
got like you got.
Speaker 6 (01:18):
No.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
I don't know if empathy is a right worry, but
you're just I don't know. You're just out there. You're
almost as bad as handle whoa. You know, You're just
no empathy or anything from anybody, just all you you, you,
you you?
Speaker 6 (01:35):
Oh.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
Do you get that from me? You're here four hours
a day? No, I do not. Are you saying that
just because I'm sitting here? No, you're not selling that.
Speaker 7 (01:44):
I absolutely don't get that from you.
Speaker 6 (01:47):
But I can always count on Gilt.
Speaker 7 (01:48):
I will say this.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Sometimes you mask or hide said empathy, but it exists.
Speaker 6 (01:57):
You can always count on Gary and Channon to be
anti work from oh for the Live Listen, we were
always on the trajectory for work from home. It was
inevitable that was going to happen at some point. The
pandemic just expedited it. And you know what, not every
single person needs to be in the office.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
That's what we said.
Speaker 6 (02:14):
If you have a job that you don't require to
be in the office, there's no reason for you to
be on the roads, clogging up the roads, so on
and so forth. Work from home be done.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
With this sounds like someone who's well socialized and in
his underwear.
Speaker 7 (02:27):
What else is going on?
Speaker 4 (02:29):
Time for what's happening? I can see the cheeto stains
on your tee shir, that's me.
Speaker 5 (02:39):
That's what we did say. You can work from home. Great,
I said, it works for you. It was fantastic. But
don't fool yourself into shoehorning your way into a work
from home position when you don't have one. And it's
very rare to have a work from home position that
(03:00):
is successful if you've got one. More power to you
and luck be on your side for with from evermore
or something. Rain's coming in, Rain's coming in later tonight.
We'll see cooler temperatures tonight into tomorrow and then Thursday
night into Friday night, another batch of rain. That of
course means PCH is going to close again just after
(03:22):
it reopens. They said that they will close the beginning
three am only essential workers, law enforcement, utility cruiser recover
agencies on Pacific Coast Highway that is between Chautauqua and
Carbon Beach. Terrace Palisades residents are going to be able
to access their homes via Chautauqua.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
If you've got the right.
Speaker 7 (03:45):
There you go again with all your information, just you, you, you.
Speaker 6 (03:50):
You.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Donations are still coming into fire Aid. Mildly offended by
that on your behalf or gonna as a UUU person?
I can tell you you are not a u u
U person. Organizers of last week Star Studied fire Aid
benefit concerts say that they're going to raise more than
one hundred million dollars for LA wildfire recovery.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
Pretty crazy, yeah.
Speaker 5 (04:15):
A couple of prosecutors from the DA's office who recommended
the release of the Menendez brothers say they were then
demoted by the new DA Nathan Hakman, and then defamed,
they alleged, by one of his close allies.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Oh come on, this is what happens in a lot
of offices. If you are going to do the bidding
for the predecessor and some but a new boss comes in,
you probably are not going to have the same job
you had under a guy with wildly different agenda ideas.
Speaker 5 (04:45):
They said, after Hawkman won over Gascon, they were demoted
to lower roles in the DA's office, mocked and ridiculed
in online posts made by Deputy d John Lewin. It's
not unusual for the new DA to shuffle decks when
assuming office. Because by the way, that's what George Gascone did,
what they all did and received praise for it. Remember right,
(05:09):
oh keto key.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Jurors just now this coming in. Jurors have reached a
verdict in the trial of that producer in Hollywood, David Pierce.
This was the guy charged with murder and the drug
overdosese of the two young women a model in her friend.
Verdict expected to be read within about an hour. They
did not reach a verdict on charges against a codefendant
(05:33):
who's accused of being an accessory after the fact. But
these were the two girls who went out in Hollywood.
They went to an after hours party, then they went
to this guy's house. Some more drugs were taken, and
they were both dropped off at a couple hospitals by
guys in masks that said that they were good Samaritans.
And so it's interesting to me because even if these
(05:56):
women took the drugs at their own behest, is it
the dude's fault that he dropped them off with a pulse?
Speaker 7 (06:04):
Did he wait to?
Speaker 1 (06:05):
I mean, I don't know, I don't know where blame
comes with that kind of a situation. Were they drugged
or did they take the drugs on their own? All
of that probably came into I'm sure that they I
think the evidence that I remember was they were partying,
they were taking drugs on their own, went to the
house for the after party, and then things went sour
(06:25):
whatever way, too many drugs, but both ended up dead.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
And he has a response? What response?
Speaker 7 (06:29):
What responsibility does he have?
Speaker 4 (06:31):
Right?
Speaker 5 (06:32):
Interesting wide receiver Cooper cup says, the Rams are trying
to trade him. He's been with the Rams for eight years.
Speaker 7 (06:39):
How old is he now?
Speaker 4 (06:40):
Yeah, he was a little old. Oh.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
I would just say for a wide receiver, you didn't
get to be thirty one thirty two.
Speaker 7 (06:47):
I'm assuming he is.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
What has he fallen off? I thought this year he
had a relatively good year.
Speaker 5 (06:52):
I mean, Pooka Nakoup is probably outpacing him and gets
a shelf life.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
But he was offensive Player of the Years just a
few years ago. Twenty one.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Yeah, that's a long time in wide receips, in any
wild players years maybe unless you're alignment. The waffle house
is adding an egg surcharge to underline the bird flew
egg shortage situation. If the waffle house does it. You
know it's a problem when the waffle house closes.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
You know that the the hurricane is coming.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Fifty cents per egg surcharge to all menus. It's funny
because I don't eat eggs all the time. I do
love the eggs, but I've been craving eggs because I
know I can't get them, because that's just my little
contrarian mind.
Speaker 5 (07:35):
Because you're seeing the headlines about them all, seeing them
all the time, and you think to yourself, boy, those
expensive eggs must eggs. Big orexia is considered a psychological condition,
a type of body dysmorphic disorder, which involves a distorted
self image that focuses specifically on your muscle size and
your physical appearance. Now they call it big orexia.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
They say the afflicted person is obsessed with becoming more
muscular and preoccupied with the idea that their body isn't
brawny enough, even if they actually have the physique of
a bodybuilder.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
I was gonna say with boys.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
They say this is is on the rise, particularly among boys.
But I remember my brother, for example, when he was
in high school, trying to bulk up just because he
was scared. You know, boys go through that growth sport
thirteen fourteen fifteen, and they sprout up like a weed
and then they're skinny, and then if they want to
be in sports, or they were into sports, suddenly it's
(08:32):
kind of more difficult, especially with physical sports.
Speaker 5 (08:34):
And with the difference between just different people at different ages, right.
I mean, you could have a we had a kid
in our eighth grade class. We had a mustache. I
mean he was six feet two probably at a mustache.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
And now he works Wednesday mornings at the Star Garden
as the bouncer.
Speaker 5 (08:50):
But they were also when you get to high school,
the difference is that much greater, right, because you have
kids who developed you're thirteen, fourteen fifteen. When you get
into high school and you've got kids that are seniors
that are seventeen, eighteen nineteen in some cases, and they've
done all the growth, they've been in football for fourty years,
(09:12):
they've been working out the whole time, and they just
don't look the way you do, and you think that
that's what you should look like. The issue becomes the
infatuation with that sort of body type. And as much
as anarexia is a big thing where you constantly feel
like you're bigger than you actually are. The big eurexia
(09:34):
makes it seem like you constantly believe you're smaller than
you actually are. And when you lift weights like that
at that young and age, you do some potential damage
to not just physically damage to your muscles and your bones,
but you could really screw yourself up mentally.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
I know that there's this big push on social media,
YouTube or whatever for skincare. One of my girlfriends she
has a ten year old daughter her and she says that,
you know, her daughter's very much into skincare routines, and
she's like, I try to tell her she doesn't need
that right now that she's maybe even doing more damage.
She's in exfoliators and things like that, which can it
(10:14):
certainly just actually lead to acne and things that you
normally would not have had if you didn't mess with
the pH balance or whatever it is going off with
your skin.
Speaker 7 (10:22):
And I'm wondering if that's all.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
I mean, it happens with every generation, right there's a
push to get kids into X, Y or Z whatever
is being advertised at the moment, but you know there's
I read an article the other day about kids pretty
pubescent girl's birthday parties at Sephora. Okay, you know it's like,
you know, I wasn't allowed to wear makeup in junior high.
(10:45):
I don't think even you know, And it's like now
it's you know, you're you're eleven years old and you're
having your skincare routine and your makeup and all that
done is wild.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
The reference.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
I wonder if boys are being made to buy like
protein powders and things like that. I'm just wondering because
it used to be like, you're in your twenties when
guys were into that kind of thing, and now I
just wonder if if the needles moved to make.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
It it's shifted even younger.
Speaker 6 (11:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (11:11):
Well, they refer to Hugh Jackman as a celebrity influencer,
not through his not that he's trying to be, but
that just who he is and the movies that he's
been in and his notoriety. He influences people's decisions. But
remember Hugh Jackman when he's training for Wolvergarine, for example,
he trains for hours a day, he undergoes supervised dehydration
(11:34):
regimens to transform his body. But if you're fifteen years old.
You think I could do that?
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Yep.
Speaker 5 (11:40):
You don't have the will power or the intelligence to
figure out a lot of times, you don't to figure
out what is nutritious for your body. You see that
he does dehydration regimen, so you try to do the
same thing. I remember wrestlers in our high school. I
assume this is still going on. Wrestlers in our high
school when they were trying to make weight would have
(12:01):
the most ridiculous, totally practices.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Well, and they would show up to school in three
pairs of sweats, three pairs of sweats, and the bottom
layer the closest to their skin is a garbage bag,
so that they would sweat it all out and then
you know, maintain that heat.
Speaker 5 (12:16):
Then they would constantly spit into cups because they thought
the reducing their saliva volume was gonna was going to
impact their weight enough that it was going to make them,
you know, get the weight class that.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
They wanted to.
Speaker 5 (12:29):
And while the wrestling coach, mister Pliler never encouraged that,
he also didn't discourage it right, And then the rumors
got you know, I could do this thing where I
would I could go, I could go throw up a
couple times before I wad in or I could do this,
or I'm not going to eat for a day and
a half before I have this ridiculously difficult wrestling marriage.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
If you're interested, there's a great TV series called Kingdom.
I believe it was maybe ten years ago about MMA.
Yeah dropping away and really was eye opening. Yeah, maybe
I should be an MMA fighter.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
You've got to be able to say it first, right, So.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
No, Well, one of the survivors of the fire happened
to be one seventy five seventy five Pacific Coast Highway.
It is a nineteen twenties Mediterranean style home, imposing architecture
(13:29):
it is said to have and it is the scene
of our True Crime Tuesday.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
The story is true, that's true.
Speaker 6 (13:39):
No, it sounds made up.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
I don't know. Perry and Shannon present True Crime.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Now.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
One seventy five seventy five pch has stood for almost
one hundred years. It has lasted the test of time.
Many stories come out of this property as well. Like
I said, it's a Mediterranean style building, arches resembling gateways
to a lost world. You've driven by it, but not
(14:12):
everybody who was driven by it knows the story of Thelmatod.
Thelma Tod died mysteriously one cold night in nineteen thirty
five in the foggy streets of castele Mayre above.
Speaker 7 (14:27):
Is that how I say It's still a mayor.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
At the time, it was one of the most widely
covered stories in LA history. Her last night was haunted,
and it has confounded La for almost a century. It
was December sixteenth, nineteen thirty five, and Thelmatad was twenty nine.
(14:51):
She was leaving home for a party with her mother.
She descended the stairs in her beautiful Glowe slimmering blue
evening gown, blue heels, and mink coat draped around her shoulders.
Her chocolate brown Lincoln convertible was parked in the streets
above the restaurant, the sidewalk cafe there that was actually
(15:14):
called the Velmouth Todd Sidewalk Cafe. It was her car,
the Lincoln, in the garage of her lover and business partner,
filmmaker Roland West.
Speaker 7 (15:27):
He puts Helma Todd.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
And her mother into the car for the night, and
he tells her to be back by two am because
remember they're going to a party.
Speaker 7 (15:37):
She was going to drop her mom off on sunset
on the way.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
She gives him a look, rolls her eyes and says, well,
then I'll be back at two five.
Speaker 5 (15:46):
Well, he says, just so you know, the door's going
to be locked into Missy or something along those lines.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
Uh. This party.
Speaker 5 (15:57):
They had become business partners, by the way, when they
opened a cafe on the ground floor of a community
center for a sort of a neighborhood that never really
took off over there. It was far enough away from
the amenities of Hollywood and the burgeoning West Side of
la that it never really gained the sort of notoriety
(16:19):
that it would decades later after the heydays of Hollywood,
after the Depression, et cetera. So nineteen thirty four they
opened this Thelmatod's sidewalk cafe and hoping that it would
draw people from Hollywood down around the corner of the
Palisades and get them some tourism business.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
Among other things. She was the hostess of the restaurant.
Speaker 5 (16:40):
She would welcome people with this warmth that they had
seen her display as her career as an actress on screen,
and for about a year and a half they actually
said this was sort of a great description, a great
example of what could happen post depression.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
They say that this was an early vision of everything
that Pasific Palisades would eventually represent. A glamorous and close
knit community in Paradise.
Speaker 5 (17:07):
Yeah, close knit because, among other things, Roland West's first wife,
whom he was estranged from, still lived in his house.
She stayed in a tower above the house, and he
moved into the living quarters above the cafe so he
could keep an eye in the business. But of course
she Felma Todd moves into her own quarters, also on
(17:29):
the second floor.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
Hmmm.
Speaker 5 (17:31):
And while they weren't married, they were probably doing married things.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Now, who was Selma Todd? Well, she had been a
film star since nineteen twenty five, so for about ten years.
After she left her career as a school teacher in Massachusetts,
she signed with Paramount. She was known for her work
in comedy. She would play the straight woman with the beauty.
She was a foil. She was in Laurel and Hearty things.
(17:57):
She worked with the Marx Brothers and things like that.
They say that she kind of embodied the emergency, emerging
kind of modern woman. That she played socialites, but socialites
with an elegant knowingness and wit that they say, would
become the hallmark of people like Carol Lombard, Jean Harlowe.
They said that her beauty was as classical as the
(18:19):
statue of Venus. She had become though America's ice cream blonde.
She was the epitome of new society. So that's where
she was when she was operating this sidewalk cafe with
the lever Roland West, with the ex wife and the
tower above.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
So she.
Speaker 5 (18:42):
Goes to the party December sixteenth, nineteen thirty five. Her
chauffeur drives her to the Trocadero nightclub on sunset for
this party thrown by a couple of high profile actors
and their daughter, a seventeen year old daughter, the future
actor Ida Lupino. So she goes from table to table.
(19:03):
She's a star, she's been in movies. She's saying hello
to everybody. She sees her ex husband there, Pat the Chichio,
the chicchio, the Chichio, Chichio. I think we learned okay.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
He was an actor's agent.
Speaker 5 (19:18):
He was a full time mob guy turned playboy, been
pretty cruel to her during their marriage and when they divorced,
that's when she went over and started hooking up with
Roland West. Well, they said that a bunch of people
said that they appeared to kind of have bitterness between them, Yeah,
because it's their exes.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Well, and he had a date with him, and he
shouldn't even have been invited to that party. Allegedly, some
say that she just left, that Thelmatad just left, but
some did report the bitterness that you talk about. That
the daughter of the Stars throwing the party later testified
that she and Uh and Thelma Toad had a private
(19:58):
conversation in the loo, where Thelma Todd had been beside herself,
very upset over the whole thing.
Speaker 5 (20:05):
So she eventually goes back out to her car. It's
about three in the morning. She slides into the backseat.
Her chauffeur says that she is unusually quiet. They say
they don't know how much champagne that she had. It
would have been anybody's guess.
Speaker 4 (20:19):
So he offers.
Speaker 5 (20:22):
The chauffeur offers to drop her off at her house,
and she asks to be let out just past where
sunset meets pch Again. This is nineteen thirty five. There's
no street lights out there. The only sound is the
wind through the cypress trees, the waves crashing just a
short time to just short short distance south. It was
(20:43):
a little after three forty five. In her evening gown,
she climbs up that flight of stairs through the mist
towards the second floor of her restaurant. That was the
last anybody saw her alive.
Speaker 4 (20:56):
Is that what it right?
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Yeah, we're in the midst of our true crime Tuesday.
It is the mystery of what happened to Thelma Tod
Where we left you. Thelma Todd was with filmmaker Roland West.
They lived in the Pacific Paliside Palisades area. She was
shacking up with him. His ex wife lived in a
tower above. They ran thelmatod sidewalk cafe there, very popular
(21:25):
little eatery there, which they said would come to define
the Pacific Palisades in terms of tight knit glamour. And
she left for a party December nineteen thirty five. She
had her mother with her and she was going to
drop her mom off on sunset. Makes her way to
the party, finds her ex husband is there with a date.
She is upset, doesn't roll back into her car with
(21:49):
the chauffeur till about three am. By all accounts, maybe
some tipsy, some tipsiness. So anyway, she at the time
refer used the chauffeurs offered a drop her off at
her doorstep and asked to be let out just past
where sunset meets Pch. No street lights are on the
(22:09):
road in nineteen thirty five, only the sound of wind
and the waves. This was a little after three p
forty five am. She was in her blue sparkling evening gown,
and she began the slow ascent up the flight of
stairs to PCH from sunset through the mist towards the
second floor of her restaurant. I should say, from PCH
(22:31):
up to the property.
Speaker 5 (22:33):
That same blue evening gown is what she was wearing
when she was found dead the next day behind the
wheel of her Lincoln in the garage below the building.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
She looked flawless. She looked as if she had fallen asleep.
No violence had been done to her.
Speaker 5 (22:51):
Now her death was ruled accident caused by carbon monoxide poison.
The assumption was she got home, she's locked out maybe,
and then goes back into the stairs, up the stairs
to try to find shelter in the unlocked garage, might
have turned on the car to get warm, she's in
the closed space carbon monoxide.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
That sounds like Okham's razor, right, But this is Hollywood,
so there has to be conspiracy theories and rumors, doesn't there, Yes,
there does. Rumors quickly spread that the filmmaker guy was
in a jealous rage and that he killed her, maybe
in their apartment or even on his yacht, then took
her to the car to make it look like an
a an accident. Then there was the conspiracy theory that
(23:37):
he the filmmaker, and his ex wife conspired together and
killed her. There was gossip that Thelma Todd was involved
with a bad crowd through that previous marriage to the
guy she saw that night. He was connected to the mafia,
and they said that it was the mob's revenge for
her saying no when they wanted to open up gambling
(23:57):
tables at the sidewalk cafe.
Speaker 5 (24:02):
All of this comes to a head with this inquest
where the director lover, his estranged former film star wife,
the maid, the chauffeur, the ex husband with the gangster ties.
Every single one of them takes turns testifying about her death.
But the facts seemed to unravel when you looked at
him a little bit closer, some small element would throw
(24:24):
the investigation into shambles, like there were drops of blood
on the running board outside of the car, the long
climb from pch to the garage, the lack of any
physical trauma on Thelma. There was testimony also from a
friend of Thelma's who claimed that she'd received a phone
call from her on Sunday at four pm, hours after
(24:44):
she would have died and would have already been lifeless
in that Lincoln in the.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Garage murder accident or suicide. The filmmaker, by the way,
that she was banging around with, tried to reopen Thelma
Todd's sidewalk cafe just days after her body.
Speaker 7 (25:00):
He was found.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Tourists, conspiracy theorists flooded the place. They stole souvenirs from
the restaurant. They wanted to walk up those fateful stairs.
They wanted to come to their own conclusions. See, we
don't change that much that much, folks. One hundred years
later we do the same damn thing. Guests recalled the
eeriness of being seated by the filmmaker himself while lover
(25:24):
came back to me played on a duke box. Cafe
closed after a few months it never reopened to the public.
Speaker 5 (25:33):
Did you see the part there were At one point
Shelley Winters was taken by Howard Hughes to that cafe
on a date that when there was no one else there.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Sounds about right for Howard Hughes, the odd fellow that
he was.
Speaker 4 (25:48):
Where it is klean xboxes on his feet.
Speaker 5 (25:51):
Now, the flames from the Palisades fire came close to
Castillo del Mar, the home, but they said that it
is still standing, and the turquoise blue garage doors, which
are still visible from outside what would have been the
last place.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
She was alive in that car still standing.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
So what do you think it was? I think it
was the carbon monoxide. I think that's probably the best. Yeah,
you're right, it's Aukham's raised. The easiest, easiest explanation is
probably she's in her party dress. She's already got a
little attitude, telling the guy, well, i'll be him at
two o five if you're going to lock the door too.
Speaker 7 (26:30):
There's already a power struggle going on there.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
And she doesn't come home till three forty five.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Three forty five, and she's full of champagne, and why
wouldn't you lock your door by three forty five am
and the you know she wants to stay warm, so
she goes in the car some.
Speaker 5 (26:44):
Time when guys didn't give gals their house key.
Speaker 7 (26:50):
Are you kidding?
Speaker 4 (26:51):
I don't.
Speaker 7 (26:51):
I don't even have a house key.
Speaker 4 (26:53):
And it's twenty twenty four safer that way for him.
You've been listening to The Gary and Shannon Show.
Speaker 5 (27:00):
You can always hear us live on KFI AM six
forty nine am to one pm every Monday through Friday,
and anytime on demand on the iHeartRadio app.
This is Gary and Shannon and you're listening to KFI
AM six forty, the Gary and Shannon Show on demand
on the iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
AP Gary and Shannon, would you like or share on
one of the prisons in l Salvador? Question mark, if
you saw a story about a prison in El Salvador,
would you like or share that?
Speaker 3 (00:22):
And why and why not?
Speaker 4 (00:25):
I'm not sure what the question.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
I think the question is is because you and I
both alluded to the fact that prison in Al Salvador
is not a club fed place to be. It's not
an easy amount of time to serve. I would imagine
wants us to show our math. He wants us to
show our math on that.
Speaker 5 (00:45):
One place to look. I saw a report from earlier
this morning on CNN. David Culver, one of the reporters,
spent some time in a place called say Kote, one
of the high security facilities that is terrifying. They actually
call it a prison for terrorists, a correctional center for terrorists.
But again that was on CNN. That's that's easy to
(01:07):
look up. David Culver is the reporter's name.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Gary, you are just the weirdest personality. I can't I
can't put my finger on it. But you know you
got like you got.
Speaker 6 (01:18):
No.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
I don't know if empathy is a right worry, but
you're just I don't know. You're just out there. You're
almost as bad as handle whoa. You know, You're just
no empathy or anything from anybody, just all you you, you,
you you?
Speaker 6 (01:35):
Oh.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
Do you get that from me? You're here four hours
a day? No, I do not. Are you saying that
just because I'm sitting here? No, you're not selling that.
Speaker 7 (01:44):
I absolutely don't get that from you.
Speaker 6 (01:47):
But I can always count on Gilt.
Speaker 7 (01:48):
I will say this.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Sometimes you mask or hide said empathy, but it exists.
Speaker 6 (01:57):
You can always count on Gary and Channon to be
anti work from oh for the Live Listen, we were
always on the trajectory for work from home. It was
inevitable that was going to happen at some point. The
pandemic just expedited it. And you know what, not every
single person needs to be in the office.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
That's what we said.
Speaker 6 (02:14):
If you have a job that you don't require to
be in the office, there's no reason for you to
be on the roads, clogging up the roads, so on
and so forth. Work from home be done.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
With this sounds like someone who's well socialized and in
his underwear.
Speaker 7 (02:27):
What else is going on?
Speaker 4 (02:29):
Time for what's happening? I can see the cheeto stains
on your tee shir, that's me.
Speaker 5 (02:39):
That's what we did say. You can work from home. Great,
I said, it works for you. It was fantastic. But
don't fool yourself into shoehorning your way into a work
from home position when you don't have one. And it's
very rare to have a work from home position that
(03:00):
is successful if you've got one. More power to you
and luck be on your side for with from evermore
or something. Rain's coming in, Rain's coming in later tonight.
We'll see cooler temperatures tonight into tomorrow and then Thursday
night into Friday night, another batch of rain. That of
course means PCH is going to close again just after
(03:22):
it reopens. They said that they will close the beginning
three am only essential workers, law enforcement, utility cruiser recover
agencies on Pacific Coast Highway that is between Chautauqua and
Carbon Beach. Terrace Palisades residents are going to be able
to access their homes via Chautauqua.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
If you've got the right.
Speaker 7 (03:45):
There you go again with all your information, just you, you, you.
Speaker 6 (03:50):
You.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Donations are still coming into fire Aid. Mildly offended by
that on your behalf or gonna as a UUU person?
I can tell you you are not a u u
U person. Organizers of last week Star Studied fire Aid
benefit concerts say that they're going to raise more than
one hundred million dollars for LA wildfire recovery.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
Pretty crazy, yeah.
Speaker 5 (04:15):
A couple of prosecutors from the DA's office who recommended
the release of the Menendez brothers say they were then
demoted by the new DA Nathan Hakman, and then defamed,
they alleged, by one of his close allies.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Oh come on, this is what happens in a lot
of offices. If you are going to do the bidding
for the predecessor and some but a new boss comes in,
you probably are not going to have the same job
you had under a guy with wildly different agenda ideas.
Speaker 5 (04:45):
They said, after Hawkman won over Gascon, they were demoted
to lower roles in the DA's office, mocked and ridiculed
in online posts made by Deputy d John Lewin. It's
not unusual for the new DA to shuffle decks when
assuming office. Because by the way, that's what George Gascone did,
what they all did and received praise for it. Remember right,
(05:09):
oh keto key.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Jurors just now this coming in. Jurors have reached a
verdict in the trial of that producer in Hollywood, David Pierce.
This was the guy charged with murder and the drug
overdosese of the two young women a model in her friend.
Verdict expected to be read within about an hour. They
did not reach a verdict on charges against a codefendant
(05:33):
who's accused of being an accessory after the fact. But
these were the two girls who went out in Hollywood.
They went to an after hours party, then they went
to this guy's house. Some more drugs were taken, and
they were both dropped off at a couple hospitals by
guys in masks that said that they were good Samaritans.
And so it's interesting to me because even if these
(05:56):
women took the drugs at their own behest, is it
the dude's fault that he dropped them off with a pulse?
Speaker 7 (06:04):
Did he wait to?
Speaker 1 (06:05):
I mean, I don't know, I don't know where blame
comes with that kind of a situation. Were they drugged
or did they take the drugs on their own? All
of that probably came into I'm sure that they I
think the evidence that I remember was they were partying,
they were taking drugs on their own, went to the
house for the after party, and then things went sour
(06:25):
whatever way, too many drugs, but both ended up dead.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
And he has a response? What response?
Speaker 7 (06:29):
What responsibility does he have?
Speaker 4 (06:31):
Right?
Speaker 5 (06:32):
Interesting wide receiver Cooper cup says, the Rams are trying
to trade him. He's been with the Rams for eight years.
Speaker 7 (06:39):
How old is he now?
Speaker 4 (06:40):
Yeah, he was a little old. Oh.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
I would just say for a wide receiver, you didn't
get to be thirty one thirty two.
Speaker 7 (06:47):
I'm assuming he is.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
What has he fallen off? I thought this year he
had a relatively good year.
Speaker 5 (06:52):
I mean, Pooka Nakoup is probably outpacing him and gets
a shelf life.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
But he was offensive Player of the Years just a
few years ago. Twenty one.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Yeah, that's a long time in wide receips, in any
wild players years maybe unless you're alignment. The waffle house
is adding an egg surcharge to underline the bird flew
egg shortage situation. If the waffle house does it. You
know it's a problem when the waffle house closes.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
You know that the the hurricane is coming.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Fifty cents per egg surcharge to all menus. It's funny
because I don't eat eggs all the time. I do
love the eggs, but I've been craving eggs because I
know I can't get them, because that's just my little
contrarian mind.
Speaker 5 (07:35):
Because you're seeing the headlines about them all, seeing them
all the time, and you think to yourself, boy, those
expensive eggs must eggs. Big orexia is considered a psychological condition,
a type of body dysmorphic disorder, which involves a distorted
self image that focuses specifically on your muscle size and
your physical appearance. Now they call it big orexia.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
They say the afflicted person is obsessed with becoming more
muscular and preoccupied with the idea that their body isn't
brawny enough, even if they actually have the physique of
a bodybuilder.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
I was gonna say with boys.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
They say this is is on the rise, particularly among boys.
But I remember my brother, for example, when he was
in high school, trying to bulk up just because he
was scared. You know, boys go through that growth sport
thirteen fourteen fifteen, and they sprout up like a weed
and then they're skinny, and then if they want to
be in sports, or they were into sports, suddenly it's
(08:32):
kind of more difficult, especially with physical sports.
Speaker 5 (08:34):
And with the difference between just different people at different ages, right.
I mean, you could have a we had a kid
in our eighth grade class. We had a mustache. I
mean he was six feet two probably at a mustache.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
And now he works Wednesday mornings at the Star Garden
as the bouncer.
Speaker 5 (08:50):
But they were also when you get to high school,
the difference is that much greater, right, because you have
kids who developed you're thirteen, fourteen fifteen. When you get
into high school and you've got kids that are seniors
that are seventeen, eighteen nineteen in some cases, and they've
done all the growth, they've been in football for fourty years,
(09:12):
they've been working out the whole time, and they just
don't look the way you do, and you think that
that's what you should look like. The issue becomes the
infatuation with that sort of body type. And as much
as anarexia is a big thing where you constantly feel
like you're bigger than you actually are. The big eurexia
(09:34):
makes it seem like you constantly believe you're smaller than
you actually are. And when you lift weights like that
at that young and age, you do some potential damage
to not just physically damage to your muscles and your bones,
but you could really screw yourself up mentally.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
I know that there's this big push on social media,
YouTube or whatever for skincare. One of my girlfriends she
has a ten year old daughter her and she says that,
you know, her daughter's very much into skincare routines, and
she's like, I try to tell her she doesn't need
that right now that she's maybe even doing more damage.
She's in exfoliators and things like that, which can it
(10:14):
certainly just actually lead to acne and things that you
normally would not have had if you didn't mess with
the pH balance or whatever it is going off with
your skin.
Speaker 7 (10:22):
And I'm wondering if that's all.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
I mean, it happens with every generation, right there's a
push to get kids into X, Y or Z whatever
is being advertised at the moment, but you know there's
I read an article the other day about kids pretty
pubescent girl's birthday parties at Sephora. Okay, you know it's like,
you know, I wasn't allowed to wear makeup in junior high.
(10:45):
I don't think even you know, And it's like now
it's you know, you're you're eleven years old and you're
having your skincare routine and your makeup and all that
done is wild.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
The reference.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
I wonder if boys are being made to buy like
protein powders and things like that. I'm just wondering because
it used to be like, you're in your twenties when
guys were into that kind of thing, and now I
just wonder if if the needles moved to make.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
It it's shifted even younger.
Speaker 6 (11:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (11:11):
Well, they refer to Hugh Jackman as a celebrity influencer,
not through his not that he's trying to be, but
that just who he is and the movies that he's
been in and his notoriety. He influences people's decisions. But
remember Hugh Jackman when he's training for Wolvergarine, for example,
he trains for hours a day, he undergoes supervised dehydration
(11:34):
regimens to transform his body. But if you're fifteen years old.
You think I could do that?
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Yep.
Speaker 5 (11:40):
You don't have the will power or the intelligence to
figure out a lot of times, you don't to figure
out what is nutritious for your body. You see that
he does dehydration regimen, so you try to do the
same thing. I remember wrestlers in our high school. I
assume this is still going on. Wrestlers in our high
school when they were trying to make weight would have
(12:01):
the most ridiculous, totally practices.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Well, and they would show up to school in three
pairs of sweats, three pairs of sweats, and the bottom
layer the closest to their skin is a garbage bag,
so that they would sweat it all out and then
you know, maintain that heat.
Speaker 5 (12:16):
Then they would constantly spit into cups because they thought
the reducing their saliva volume was gonna was going to
impact their weight enough that it was going to make them,
you know, get the weight class that.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
They wanted to.
Speaker 5 (12:29):
And while the wrestling coach, mister Pliler never encouraged that,
he also didn't discourage it right, And then the rumors
got you know, I could do this thing where I
would I could go, I could go throw up a
couple times before I wad in or I could do this,
or I'm not going to eat for a day and
a half before I have this ridiculously difficult wrestling marriage.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
If you're interested, there's a great TV series called Kingdom.
I believe it was maybe ten years ago about MMA.
Yeah dropping away and really was eye opening. Yeah, maybe
I should be an MMA fighter.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
You've got to be able to say it first, right, So.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
No, Well, one of the survivors of the fire happened
to be one seventy five seventy five Pacific Coast Highway.
It is a nineteen twenties Mediterranean style home, imposing architecture
(13:29):
it is said to have and it is the scene
of our True Crime Tuesday.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
The story is true, that's true.
Speaker 6 (13:39):
No, it sounds made up.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
I don't know. Perry and Shannon present True Crime.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Now.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
One seventy five seventy five pch has stood for almost
one hundred years. It has lasted the test of time.
Many stories come out of this property as well. Like
I said, it's a Mediterranean style building, arches resembling gateways
to a lost world. You've driven by it, but not
(14:12):
everybody who was driven by it knows the story of Thelmatod.
Thelma Tod died mysteriously one cold night in nineteen thirty
five in the foggy streets of castele Mayre above.
Speaker 7 (14:27):
Is that how I say It's still a mayor.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
At the time, it was one of the most widely
covered stories in LA history. Her last night was haunted,
and it has confounded La for almost a century. It
was December sixteenth, nineteen thirty five, and Thelmatad was twenty nine.
(14:51):
She was leaving home for a party with her mother.
She descended the stairs in her beautiful Glowe slimmering blue
evening gown, blue heels, and mink coat draped around her shoulders.
Her chocolate brown Lincoln convertible was parked in the streets
above the restaurant, the sidewalk cafe there that was actually
(15:14):
called the Velmouth Todd Sidewalk Cafe. It was her car,
the Lincoln, in the garage of her lover and business partner,
filmmaker Roland West.
Speaker 7 (15:27):
He puts Helma Todd.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
And her mother into the car for the night, and
he tells her to be back by two am because
remember they're going to a party.
Speaker 7 (15:37):
She was going to drop her mom off on sunset
on the way.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
She gives him a look, rolls her eyes and says, well,
then I'll be back at two five.
Speaker 5 (15:46):
Well, he says, just so you know, the door's going
to be locked into Missy or something along those lines.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
Uh. This party.
Speaker 5 (15:57):
They had become business partners, by the way, when they
opened a cafe on the ground floor of a community
center for a sort of a neighborhood that never really
took off over there. It was far enough away from
the amenities of Hollywood and the burgeoning West Side of
la that it never really gained the sort of notoriety
(16:19):
that it would decades later after the heydays of Hollywood,
after the Depression, et cetera. So nineteen thirty four they
opened this Thelmatod's sidewalk cafe and hoping that it would
draw people from Hollywood down around the corner of the
Palisades and get them some tourism business.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
Among other things. She was the hostess of the restaurant.
Speaker 5 (16:40):
She would welcome people with this warmth that they had
seen her display as her career as an actress on screen,
and for about a year and a half they actually
said this was sort of a great description, a great
example of what could happen post depression.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
They say that this was an early vision of everything
that Pasific Palisades would eventually represent. A glamorous and close
knit community in Paradise.
Speaker 5 (17:07):
Yeah, close knit because, among other things, Roland West's first wife,
whom he was estranged from, still lived in his house.
She stayed in a tower above the house, and he
moved into the living quarters above the cafe so he
could keep an eye in the business. But of course
she Felma Todd moves into her own quarters, also on
(17:29):
the second floor.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
Hmmm.
Speaker 5 (17:31):
And while they weren't married, they were probably doing married things.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Now, who was Selma Todd? Well, she had been a
film star since nineteen twenty five, so for about ten years.
After she left her career as a school teacher in Massachusetts,
she signed with Paramount. She was known for her work
in comedy. She would play the straight woman with the beauty.
She was a foil. She was in Laurel and Hearty things.
(17:57):
She worked with the Marx Brothers and things like that.
They say that she kind of embodied the emergency, emerging
kind of modern woman. That she played socialites, but socialites
with an elegant knowingness and wit that they say, would
become the hallmark of people like Carol Lombard, Jean Harlowe.
They said that her beauty was as classical as the
(18:19):
statue of Venus. She had become though America's ice cream blonde.
She was the epitome of new society. So that's where
she was when she was operating this sidewalk cafe with
the lever Roland West, with the ex wife and the
tower above.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
So she.
Speaker 5 (18:42):
Goes to the party December sixteenth, nineteen thirty five. Her
chauffeur drives her to the Trocadero nightclub on sunset for
this party thrown by a couple of high profile actors
and their daughter, a seventeen year old daughter, the future
actor Ida Lupino. So she goes from table to table.
(19:03):
She's a star, she's been in movies. She's saying hello
to everybody. She sees her ex husband there, Pat the Chichio,
the chicchio, the Chichio, Chichio. I think we learned okay.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
He was an actor's agent.
Speaker 5 (19:18):
He was a full time mob guy turned playboy, been
pretty cruel to her during their marriage and when they divorced,
that's when she went over and started hooking up with
Roland West. Well, they said that a bunch of people
said that they appeared to kind of have bitterness between them, Yeah,
because it's their exes.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Well, and he had a date with him, and he
shouldn't even have been invited to that party. Allegedly, some
say that she just left, that Thelmatad just left, but
some did report the bitterness that you talk about. That
the daughter of the Stars throwing the party later testified
that she and Uh and Thelma Toad had a private
(19:58):
conversation in the loo, where Thelma Todd had been beside herself,
very upset over the whole thing.
Speaker 5 (20:05):
So she eventually goes back out to her car. It's
about three in the morning. She slides into the backseat.
Her chauffeur says that she is unusually quiet. They say
they don't know how much champagne that she had. It
would have been anybody's guess.
Speaker 4 (20:19):
So he offers.
Speaker 5 (20:22):
The chauffeur offers to drop her off at her house,
and she asks to be let out just past where
sunset meets pch Again. This is nineteen thirty five. There's
no street lights out there. The only sound is the
wind through the cypress trees, the waves crashing just a
short time to just short short distance south. It was
(20:43):
a little after three forty five. In her evening gown,
she climbs up that flight of stairs through the mist
towards the second floor of her restaurant. That was the
last anybody saw her alive.
Speaker 4 (20:56):
Is that what it right?
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Yeah, we're in the midst of our true crime Tuesday.
It is the mystery of what happened to Thelma Tod
Where we left you. Thelma Todd was with filmmaker Roland West.
They lived in the Pacific Paliside Palisades area. She was
shacking up with him. His ex wife lived in a
tower above. They ran thelmatod sidewalk cafe there, very popular
(21:25):
little eatery there, which they said would come to define
the Pacific Palisades in terms of tight knit glamour. And
she left for a party December nineteen thirty five. She
had her mother with her and she was going to
drop her mom off on sunset. Makes her way to
the party, finds her ex husband is there with a date.
She is upset, doesn't roll back into her car with
(21:49):
the chauffeur till about three am. By all accounts, maybe
some tipsy, some tipsiness. So anyway, she at the time
refer used the chauffeurs offered a drop her off at
her doorstep and asked to be let out just past
where sunset meets Pch. No street lights are on the
(22:09):
road in nineteen thirty five, only the sound of wind
and the waves. This was a little after three p
forty five am. She was in her blue sparkling evening gown,
and she began the slow ascent up the flight of
stairs to PCH from sunset through the mist towards the
second floor of her restaurant. I should say, from PCH
(22:31):
up to the property.
Speaker 5 (22:33):
That same blue evening gown is what she was wearing
when she was found dead the next day behind the
wheel of her Lincoln in the garage below the building.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
She looked flawless. She looked as if she had fallen asleep.
No violence had been done to her.
Speaker 5 (22:51):
Now her death was ruled accident caused by carbon monoxide poison.
The assumption was she got home, she's locked out maybe,
and then goes back into the stairs, up the stairs
to try to find shelter in the unlocked garage, might
have turned on the car to get warm, she's in
the closed space carbon monoxide.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
That sounds like Okham's razor, right, But this is Hollywood,
so there has to be conspiracy theories and rumors, doesn't there, Yes,
there does. Rumors quickly spread that the filmmaker guy was
in a jealous rage and that he killed her, maybe
in their apartment or even on his yacht, then took
her to the car to make it look like an
a an accident. Then there was the conspiracy theory that
(23:37):
he the filmmaker, and his ex wife conspired together and
killed her. There was gossip that Thelma Todd was involved
with a bad crowd through that previous marriage to the
guy she saw that night. He was connected to the mafia,
and they said that it was the mob's revenge for
her saying no when they wanted to open up gambling
(23:57):
tables at the sidewalk cafe.
Speaker 5 (24:02):
All of this comes to a head with this inquest
where the director lover, his estranged former film star wife,
the maid, the chauffeur, the ex husband with the gangster ties.
Every single one of them takes turns testifying about her death.
But the facts seemed to unravel when you looked at
him a little bit closer, some small element would throw
(24:24):
the investigation into shambles, like there were drops of blood
on the running board outside of the car, the long
climb from pch to the garage, the lack of any
physical trauma on Thelma. There was testimony also from a
friend of Thelma's who claimed that she'd received a phone
call from her on Sunday at four pm, hours after
(24:44):
she would have died and would have already been lifeless
in that Lincoln in the.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Garage murder accident or suicide. The filmmaker, by the way,
that she was banging around with, tried to reopen Thelma
Todd's sidewalk cafe just days after her body.
Speaker 7 (25:00):
He was found.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Tourists, conspiracy theorists flooded the place. They stole souvenirs from
the restaurant. They wanted to walk up those fateful stairs.
They wanted to come to their own conclusions. See, we
don't change that much that much, folks. One hundred years
later we do the same damn thing. Guests recalled the
eeriness of being seated by the filmmaker himself while lover
(25:24):
came back to me played on a duke box. Cafe
closed after a few months it never reopened to the public.
Speaker 5 (25:33):
Did you see the part there were At one point
Shelley Winters was taken by Howard Hughes to that cafe
on a date that when there was no one else there.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Sounds about right for Howard Hughes, the odd fellow that
he was.
Speaker 4 (25:48):
Where it is klean xboxes on his feet.
Speaker 5 (25:51):
Now, the flames from the Palisades fire came close to
Castillo del Mar, the home, but they said that it
is still standing, and the turquoise blue garage doors, which
are still visible from outside what would have been the
last place.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
She was alive in that car still standing.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
So what do you think it was? I think it
was the carbon monoxide. I think that's probably the best. Yeah,
you're right, it's Aukham's raised. The easiest, easiest explanation is
probably she's in her party dress. She's already got a
little attitude, telling the guy, well, i'll be him at
two o five if you're going to lock the door too.
Speaker 7 (26:30):
There's already a power struggle going on there.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
And she doesn't come home till three forty five.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Three forty five, and she's full of champagne, and why
wouldn't you lock your door by three forty five am
and the you know she wants to stay warm, so
she goes in the car some.
Speaker 5 (26:44):
Time when guys didn't give gals their house key.
Speaker 7 (26:50):
Are you kidding?
Speaker 4 (26:51):
I don't.
Speaker 7 (26:51):
I don't even have a house key.
Speaker 4 (26:53):
And it's twenty twenty four safer that way for him.
You've been listening to The Gary and Shannon Show.
Speaker 5 (27:00):
You can always hear us live on KFI AM six
forty nine am to one pm every Monday through Friday,
and anytime on demand on the iHeartRadio app.
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True Crime Tonight
If you eat, sleep, and breathe true crime, TRUE CRIME TONIGHT is serving up your nightly fix. Five nights a week, KT STUDIOS & iHEART RADIO invite listeners to pull up a seat for an unfiltered look at the biggest cases making headlines, celebrity scandals, and the trials everyone is watching. With a mix of expert analysis, hot takes, and listener call-ins, TRUE CRIME TONIGHT goes beyond the headlines to uncover the twists, turns, and unanswered questions that keep us all obsessed—because, at TRUE CRIME TONIGHT, there’s a seat for everyone. Whether breaking down crime scene forensics, scrutinizing serial killers, or debating the most binge-worthy true crime docs, True Crime Tonight is the fresh, fast-paced, and slightly addictive home for true crime lovers.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.