Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to KFI AM six forty on demand. Happy
to be with you on this Christmas Eve, as we
do every single year our special Live Christmas Eve Show
here on KFI AM six forty. We'll be opening up
the phones in a little bit at eight hundred five
two zero one five three four. That's eight hundred five
(00:23):
to two zero one five three four. Tis the season
and there is a lot that goes into that statement.
Some think, well, the weather's changing and that's part of
the season, and as the year winds down, the next
season is looking forward to what the next year will bring.
(00:48):
And to others, there is deep symbolism in all of
the acts and holiday gift giving and trees and lights
and adornments, but they all tie back to the same
(01:10):
point that the celebration that will take place tomorrow, many
of you going to a midnight mass or going to
be with family tonight, that it ties in to my birth,
(01:34):
the birth of a child, the birth of salvation that
was spoken about in scripture. Now all the things that
today brings in the holidays, the hustle and bustle and
a lot of the pushing and shoving and ugliness that
goes with humanity over shadows the simplicity and the importance
(02:00):
of the message. And that is simply to you, A
child was born. This child was born to humanity. This
child was born to pay the ultimate price, a sacrifice
(02:27):
for those who choose to accept, to receive that second birth,
not of the flesh, but of the spirit. While walking
around the other day looking at some of the Christmas decorations,
(02:47):
I saw the ever available visual of a Christmas tree,
pretty traditional, running long, long, ungated triangle. But this wasn't
a tree. It was a tree made of something. It
(03:10):
was built as a symbol of the holiday in the
form of a tree, but it was made up of presents,
So it was simply gift boxes stacked on top of
gift boxes, stacked on top of gift boxes to appear
(03:34):
to be a Christmas tree. Now, to someone with an
artistic eye, might be appreciated for the tying of the
symbolism of giving gifts in the tree all into one.
But to me, I saw the replacing of Yes, even
(03:56):
something that comes from paganism, like the Christmas tree, but
the symbolism of these things being replaced by gift boxes.
Are gifts bad? Absolutely not. Gifts are magical in their
proper order, in the proper intent, they are a thing
(04:20):
of beauty, acknowledging the life of someone else, in appreciation
as to who they are, not out of mandate because
of a date on a calendar, but the date on
the calendar should be a reminder of, Hey, I want
to do something nice for someone in my life. But
(04:44):
it's almost as if the gift giving superseded, transcended even
the other symbolism that others have argued cause confusion to
the Holy Day, just the whole the Holy Day. So
(05:04):
it makes one think about gift giving as a whole.
Of course, it's not wrong to give gifts, and no,
it does not get in the way of understanding the
importance or what is often referred to as the reason
for the season. It can, but it doesn't have to.
(05:29):
Gifts should have purpose, Gifts should have meaning. We've talked
about on this program before how it's gone from wrapping
gifts to tossing them in a bag. Not to say
that there isn't a time and a place for that,
but it used to be the wrapping of them was
part of was part of the symbol of you are important,
(05:54):
I want you to be surprised. This is something that
I'm doing for you rather than I just got to
rote it into a bag. So what do gifts mean?
What do the gifts that were given to me mean
(06:15):
those two thousand plus years ago. I'll explain more on
the Jesus Christ Show. Gifts. Gifts are part of this
particular holiday. Why while it ties back to many things,
(06:36):
one of which were the gifts that were given to
me by the magi. Now, there's a lot of misconceptions
as to who the magi were or how many they
there were. There are a lot of things that are
passed down generations to generations that aren't in Biblical They
don't The Bible does not say something specific, one of
which it never refers to them as kings. It never
(06:57):
says that there were three of them. It merely is magi,
which is plural, and so the plurality denotes there were
at least two. However, the assumption is because of the
gifts that were brought three gold, frank, consense, and mirr
that there were three that brought them. But nowhere in
(07:19):
scripture does it say that. A lot of misconceptions that
go on, one of which is because of the Old
timy nature of scripture, and well that's you know, from antiquity.
You kind of blow off the fact that all right, gold, frank, consense,
and murr. I guess that was the you know, that
(07:43):
was the PS. Five of then, right, that's those were
the gifts to bring. But just like you should keep
in mind who you're giving a gift to and the
intent behind that, the Magi brought forth these three gifts
that may not be specifically broken down in scripture, but
(08:06):
it has been question and it has been thought about
by scholars throughout the centuries. Gold is a pretty easy one.
It's a precious metal, has been for a long times,
still is a precious metal and a valuable commodity. And
(08:26):
some think, well, it could help finance the trip of
Joseph and Mary, that it could be helpful in many ways,
like giving money to someone who just had a child.
Here's for the child, Here's to a prosperous life. Now,
the Bible again doesn't say specifically that any of these
(08:48):
have deeper meaning, but others have gone on to look
at why these three gifts, what might be learned by
the symbolism of these gifts that were chosen by the magi. Well,
gold is symbolic of divinity. As a matter of fact,
(09:15):
it says in scripture that the arc of the Covenant
was overlaid with gold in Exodus twenty five. Pagan idols
were often made from gold because its spiritual significance and
divinity because of its preciousness. Frank incense is an interesting one.
(09:35):
It's kind of like a gum of sorts, and not
altogether different from how modern day syrup makers harvest it
from a tree. This gum, this white gum frank andcense
(09:58):
was similar obtained by making incisions in the bark of
this tree, and the gum would flow out very fragrant,
and when it's burned, it's used for worship because of
its fragrance. It's burned as a pleasant offering to God,
(10:23):
right Exodus thirty thirty four. So with that that spirituality
that comes with holiness, righteousness, spiritual cleansing, that frankensense can
be seen as this gift to the Christ child, as
(10:48):
a burnt offering, if you will. But Murr that ends
up causing a lot of questions, Well, what is murr
old kind of obvious frank andcense incense spirituality? Maybe that's
obvious as well, but murr is a strange one. It
(11:13):
also is obtained by a tree, very similar to the
way frankincense is harvested, but it's a spice of sorts
that was used in embalming. Sometimes it was even used
as a bit of a gall like if you remember
in Matthew twenty seven thirty four, when I was on
(11:39):
the cross in pain, the gall was brought to my lips,
but they didn't drink it. So sometimes it's mingled with
wine and used as something to drink.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
But that.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
One part of it being used for embalming that points
to something altogether different. The goal might be seen as
something that points to pain, something that points to suffering,
but also the embalming part that it was often used
(12:25):
in the preserving and wrapping of the body of someone
who passed. So now you have three gifts, one that
could point to divinity, one that is a form of
worship like a burnt offering, and one that deals with
(12:50):
bitterness or suffering or even death. And in these gifts
you have the beginning, the middle, and the ending of
the actual reason for the season. So the stories throughout
(13:17):
scripture are passed down. Now they're written, of course, and
there are many, many manuscripts, more manuscripts of what is
referred to as the New Testament than any other work
of antiquity. Yet still people will pass down verbally from
(13:41):
one another, or you'll hear stories, or artists will paint
or design or sculpt something, and that becomes basically how
people know a story. And my story is no different.
The story of my birth is no different. If I
(14:03):
were to say that my mother Mary rode to Bethleham
on a you would think a donkey, and that's a possibility.
But it doesn't say that. And so the imagery that
(14:24):
comes with this is based on, you know, many people
putting forth their own thoughts, the thought of the imagery
that you see during this time of year on Christmas
cards and the like, in specials, animated or otherwise.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
You have.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Mary arriving in Bethlehem the night that she gave birth
to me, but doesn't say that could have arrived weeks
and weeks earlier. It simply states while they were there
in Bethlhem, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered.
(15:15):
Arriving in town well before her due date makes more sense.
The innkeeper you remember, there's no room at the end.
There were innkeepers, of course, but there's no biblical reason.
(15:37):
There's no biblical evidence or writings that said anything about
an innkeeper, even though in every play that you see
on Christmas there is a part that is played by
someone who is the innkeeper saying sorry, there's no room
(15:59):
at the end. And it's more likely that Mary and
Joseph stayed with relatives. And these things are not written
in scripture either, but as far as likelihood, in the
(16:20):
statements that were made, there's talk about whether I was
born in a stable or a cave, a barn, and
yet there's nothing specific mentioned in scripture. The only thing
that is mentioned in scripture is a manger, and that's it.
(16:47):
It simply says that they laid me in a manger
because there was no room in what could be translated
as a guest room. Kataluma is the Greek word. It
(17:10):
could mean a handful of things. A lot of ancient
languages were that way. Ancient Hebrew is similar, where one
word can mean many different things depending on its context.
Same with English, but even more so in some of
the earlier languages. So kataluma could mean lodging place or
(17:31):
an end, but also could just mean a guest chamber.
This word is used again in scripture in what is
referred to as the New Testament, and it just meant
a large furnished room with a private house. It is
(17:52):
translated as guest chamber, but it's not translated as in Bible.
Archaeology experts believe that I was most likely born in
a house of some relatives, but not in the normal
(18:16):
guess quarters or living quarters, and so the you know,
the descriptions that go on in scripture are and not
as flowery flowery, I guess, or it's not. It doesn't
make for a good song. I suppose you know, you
(18:38):
hear things like away in the manger, the baby awakes,
the little Lord Jesus, no crying, he makes pretty song.
But there's nothing in scriptures said whether I cried or
didn't cry, or anything like that. So many of the
visuals that you see today are not necessarily, not necessarily
(19:03):
what were in scripture, and the reason why is clear
in many ways, because they're not important. The important thing
was the birth. Why. Just like any writing, any writings,
any storytelling, you put in what's important and you leave
(19:29):
out what is not. That's why the gifts that we
talked about were important because they point to something. They
tell part of the story of who the magi I
believed I was. Those things are important. The journey was important,
(19:51):
that seventy mile journey that was taking place between Nazareth
and Bethlehem. These are important and often people want to
read into scripture, then have scripture read to them give
what they need to know, and this becomes part of
(20:13):
the skill of learning how to understand scripture rather than
reading into it. Happy to be with you this Christmas Eve,
for our Christmas Eve special, every single Christmas Eve, we
(20:33):
go live here on KFI to talk to you and
celebrate this special Christian holiday coinciding with Hanukkah first time
and some time that tomorrow will mark both Christmas and Hanukkah.
Blessings and joy to our Jewish brothers and sisters celebrating
(20:56):
Hanuka tomorrow. If you have a question, theology question, or
a life situation question anywhere in the US of A
eight hundred and five to zero one five three four,
eight hundred five to zero one five three four, George Anne,
Welcome to Jesus Christchild.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Thank you. I understand from when I've heard that you
weren't actually born in December, that it used to be
a Headich holiday and the church change of de December
to get rid of the other holiday, that you were
born some lane and sometime in summer fall. Is that true?
And can you talk to me about it?
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Sure? Yeah, that's actually a good summation that you just gave.
The accounts in scripture talk about shepherds in their fields
and the like, and just not possible really in the
scheme of things about how that worked and at what
times shepherds were in their fields, and the would put
(22:01):
it more likely around September, which is the majority belief
amongst scholars, would put it in September. However, the Church,
as it often does, gets involved in things, and whether
it's political or trying to push its way around for
its own views, did that very thing. So there are
other traditions out there. March twenty fifth was believed to
(22:24):
be the anniversary of the creation of the world, and
then that kind of pushed into other dates. December twenty fifth,
as you pointed out, specifically had other traditions, so it
had a pagan festival, it dealt and tied into winter solstice.
(22:47):
So the Church, basically, in their view, we're giving Christian
alternative to pagan festivities and kind of usurped lot of
those symbols and actions and turn them into Christian symbols, basically,
(23:10):
just kind of taking them in and associating them now
with Christianity. So a lot of the things, as far
as the trees and the lights and many of these things,
although they can be tied to some symbolism in scripture,
it really was more of a forced fit and that
type of thing, and it was one of those things
(23:31):
that the Church not only did then, but did at
other times as well. So you also have Easter, which
takes from a lot of pagan symbolism and things going
on with the spring and ties them to rebirth and
the like, tying into the resurrection. So it's not the
(23:53):
first time the Church did it. That has come many
times throughout history. Keep in mind that sometimes it was
is sometimes it was tied into the politics and the
nature of the Church, quite honestly, and with that forcing
beliefs and trying to make beliefs more attractive. And the
(24:16):
Church has done things like this throughout the years and
continues to do it. Trying to make i don't know,
the church hip or cool or updated with the times,
whatever it might be. But in those days you had
a lot of festivals and a lot of events that
tied around pagan activities and beliefs, and so if you're
(24:39):
gonna try and keep people's attention, the thought was you
have to tie something. So it wasn't until much later
that that happened. Probably the first time it really pops
up is about the third century or something like that.
It's it happens in the church once tied into that
(25:05):
that these things become more and more popular because the
church wants to make them popular or stand on their
own rather than battle against other belief systems, in this
particular case, Pagans. And keep in mind that Pagans, it's
an ancient belief system that had been around for a
(25:25):
long time that ties into worship of earth and nature.
And so there was a lot of festivals in out
outward symbolism because of nature and being out in nature
and being out in public that were very prominent. And therefore,
you know, the Church didn't always know how to counter that.
(25:48):
As a matter of fact, if you go back through
history in Europe, of Christmas wasn't what you think it
is now. It was filled with a lot of debauchery,
a lot of drinking, a lot of sex, and all
kinds of things. The holiday that you see today and
(26:12):
the kind of Norman Rockwellian imagery is much different than
some of the early days because of the shuffling of
the deck and trying to make it something that it
was important, but it wasn't. For a long time, it
wasn't a major major holiday. But September is more likely
the time of my birth, and that is what is
(26:34):
considered to be the belief among scholars currently. KFI AM
six forty on demand
You're listening to KFI AM six forty on demand. Happy
to be with you on this Christmas Eve, as we
do every single year our special Live Christmas Eve Show
here on KFI AM six forty. We'll be opening up
the phones in a little bit at eight hundred five
two zero one five three four. That's eight hundred five
(00:23):
to two zero one five three four. Tis the season
and there is a lot that goes into that statement.
Some think, well, the weather's changing and that's part of
the season, and as the year winds down, the next
season is looking forward to what the next year will bring.
(00:48):
And to others, there is deep symbolism in all of
the acts and holiday gift giving and trees and lights
and adornments, but they all tie back to the same
(01:10):
point that the celebration that will take place tomorrow, many
of you going to a midnight mass or going to
be with family tonight, that it ties in to my birth,
(01:34):
the birth of a child, the birth of salvation that
was spoken about in scripture. Now all the things that
today brings in the holidays, the hustle and bustle and
a lot of the pushing and shoving and ugliness that
goes with humanity over shadows the simplicity and the importance
(02:00):
of the message. And that is simply to you, A
child was born. This child was born to humanity. This
child was born to pay the ultimate price, a sacrifice
(02:27):
for those who choose to accept, to receive that second birth,
not of the flesh, but of the spirit. While walking
around the other day looking at some of the Christmas decorations,
(02:47):
I saw the ever available visual of a Christmas tree,
pretty traditional, running long, long, ungated triangle. But this wasn't
a tree. It was a tree made of something. It
(03:10):
was built as a symbol of the holiday in the
form of a tree, but it was made up of presents,
So it was simply gift boxes stacked on top of
gift boxes, stacked on top of gift boxes to appear
(03:34):
to be a Christmas tree. Now, to someone with an
artistic eye, might be appreciated for the tying of the
symbolism of giving gifts in the tree all into one.
But to me, I saw the replacing of Yes, even
(03:56):
something that comes from paganism, like the Christmas tree, but
the symbolism of these things being replaced by gift boxes.
Are gifts bad? Absolutely not. Gifts are magical in their
proper order, in the proper intent, they are a thing
(04:20):
of beauty, acknowledging the life of someone else, in appreciation
as to who they are, not out of mandate because
of a date on a calendar, but the date on
the calendar should be a reminder of, Hey, I want
to do something nice for someone in my life. But
(04:44):
it's almost as if the gift giving superseded, transcended even
the other symbolism that others have argued cause confusion to
the Holy Day, just the whole the Holy Day. So
(05:04):
it makes one think about gift giving as a whole.
Of course, it's not wrong to give gifts, and no,
it does not get in the way of understanding the
importance or what is often referred to as the reason
for the season. It can, but it doesn't have to.
(05:29):
Gifts should have purpose, Gifts should have meaning. We've talked
about on this program before how it's gone from wrapping
gifts to tossing them in a bag. Not to say
that there isn't a time and a place for that,
but it used to be the wrapping of them was
part of was part of the symbol of you are important,
(05:54):
I want you to be surprised. This is something that
I'm doing for you rather than I just got to
rote it into a bag. So what do gifts mean?
What do the gifts that were given to me mean
(06:15):
those two thousand plus years ago. I'll explain more on
the Jesus Christ Show. Gifts. Gifts are part of this
particular holiday. Why while it ties back to many things,
(06:36):
one of which were the gifts that were given to
me by the magi. Now, there's a lot of misconceptions
as to who the magi were or how many they
there were. There are a lot of things that are
passed down generations to generations that aren't in Biblical They
don't The Bible does not say something specific, one of
which it never refers to them as kings. It never
(06:57):
says that there were three of them. It merely is magi,
which is plural, and so the plurality denotes there were
at least two. However, the assumption is because of the
gifts that were brought three gold, frank, consense, and mirr
that there were three that brought them. But nowhere in
(07:19):
scripture does it say that. A lot of misconceptions that
go on, one of which is because of the Old
timy nature of scripture, and well that's you know, from antiquity.
You kind of blow off the fact that all right, gold, frank, consense,
and murr. I guess that was the you know, that
(07:43):
was the PS. Five of then, right, that's those were
the gifts to bring. But just like you should keep
in mind who you're giving a gift to and the
intent behind that, the Magi brought forth these three gifts
that may not be specifically broken down in scripture, but
(08:06):
it has been question and it has been thought about
by scholars throughout the centuries. Gold is a pretty easy one.
It's a precious metal, has been for a long times,
still is a precious metal and a valuable commodity. And
(08:26):
some think, well, it could help finance the trip of
Joseph and Mary, that it could be helpful in many ways,
like giving money to someone who just had a child.
Here's for the child, Here's to a prosperous life. Now,
the Bible again doesn't say specifically that any of these
(08:48):
have deeper meaning, but others have gone on to look
at why these three gifts, what might be learned by
the symbolism of these gifts that were chosen by the magi. Well,
gold is symbolic of divinity. As a matter of fact,
(09:15):
it says in scripture that the arc of the Covenant
was overlaid with gold in Exodus twenty five. Pagan idols
were often made from gold because its spiritual significance and
divinity because of its preciousness. Frank incense is an interesting one.
(09:35):
It's kind of like a gum of sorts, and not
altogether different from how modern day syrup makers harvest it
from a tree. This gum, this white gum frank andcense
(09:58):
was similar obtained by making incisions in the bark of
this tree, and the gum would flow out very fragrant,
and when it's burned, it's used for worship because of
its fragrance. It's burned as a pleasant offering to God,
(10:23):
right Exodus thirty thirty four. So with that that spirituality
that comes with holiness, righteousness, spiritual cleansing, that frankensense can
be seen as this gift to the Christ child, as
(10:48):
a burnt offering, if you will. But Murr that ends
up causing a lot of questions, Well, what is murr
old kind of obvious frank andcense incense spirituality? Maybe that's
obvious as well, but murr is a strange one. It
(11:13):
also is obtained by a tree, very similar to the
way frankincense is harvested, but it's a spice of sorts
that was used in embalming. Sometimes it was even used
as a bit of a gall like if you remember
in Matthew twenty seven thirty four, when I was on
(11:39):
the cross in pain, the gall was brought to my lips,
but they didn't drink it. So sometimes it's mingled with
wine and used as something to drink.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
But that.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
One part of it being used for embalming that points
to something altogether different. The goal might be seen as
something that points to pain, something that points to suffering,
but also the embalming part that it was often used
(12:25):
in the preserving and wrapping of the body of someone
who passed. So now you have three gifts, one that
could point to divinity, one that is a form of
worship like a burnt offering, and one that deals with
(12:50):
bitterness or suffering or even death. And in these gifts
you have the beginning, the middle, and the ending of
the actual reason for the season. So the stories throughout
(13:17):
scripture are passed down. Now they're written, of course, and
there are many, many manuscripts, more manuscripts of what is
referred to as the New Testament than any other work
of antiquity. Yet still people will pass down verbally from
(13:41):
one another, or you'll hear stories, or artists will paint
or design or sculpt something, and that becomes basically how
people know a story. And my story is no different.
The story of my birth is no different. If I
(14:03):
were to say that my mother Mary rode to Bethleham
on a you would think a donkey, and that's a possibility.
But it doesn't say that. And so the imagery that
(14:24):
comes with this is based on, you know, many people
putting forth their own thoughts, the thought of the imagery
that you see during this time of year on Christmas
cards and the like, in specials, animated or otherwise.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
You have.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Mary arriving in Bethlehem the night that she gave birth
to me, but doesn't say that could have arrived weeks
and weeks earlier. It simply states while they were there
in Bethlhem, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered.
(15:15):
Arriving in town well before her due date makes more sense.
The innkeeper you remember, there's no room at the end.
There were innkeepers, of course, but there's no biblical reason.
(15:37):
There's no biblical evidence or writings that said anything about
an innkeeper, even though in every play that you see
on Christmas there is a part that is played by
someone who is the innkeeper saying sorry, there's no room
(15:59):
at the end. And it's more likely that Mary and
Joseph stayed with relatives. And these things are not written
in scripture either, but as far as likelihood, in the
(16:20):
statements that were made, there's talk about whether I was
born in a stable or a cave, a barn, and
yet there's nothing specific mentioned in scripture. The only thing
that is mentioned in scripture is a manger, and that's it.
(16:47):
It simply says that they laid me in a manger
because there was no room in what could be translated
as a guest room. Kataluma is the Greek word. It
(17:10):
could mean a handful of things. A lot of ancient
languages were that way. Ancient Hebrew is similar, where one
word can mean many different things depending on its context.
Same with English, but even more so in some of
the earlier languages. So kataluma could mean lodging place or
(17:31):
an end, but also could just mean a guest chamber.
This word is used again in scripture in what is
referred to as the New Testament, and it just meant
a large furnished room with a private house. It is
(17:52):
translated as guest chamber, but it's not translated as in Bible.
Archaeology experts believe that I was most likely born in
a house of some relatives, but not in the normal
(18:16):
guess quarters or living quarters, and so the you know,
the descriptions that go on in scripture are and not
as flowery flowery, I guess, or it's not. It doesn't
make for a good song. I suppose you know, you
(18:38):
hear things like away in the manger, the baby awakes,
the little Lord Jesus, no crying, he makes pretty song.
But there's nothing in scriptures said whether I cried or
didn't cry, or anything like that. So many of the
visuals that you see today are not necessarily, not necessarily
(19:03):
what were in scripture, and the reason why is clear
in many ways, because they're not important. The important thing
was the birth. Why. Just like any writing, any writings,
any storytelling, you put in what's important and you leave
(19:29):
out what is not. That's why the gifts that we
talked about were important because they point to something. They
tell part of the story of who the magi I
believed I was. Those things are important. The journey was important,
(19:51):
that seventy mile journey that was taking place between Nazareth
and Bethlehem. These are important and often people want to
read into scripture, then have scripture read to them give
what they need to know, and this becomes part of
(20:13):
the skill of learning how to understand scripture rather than
reading into it. Happy to be with you this Christmas Eve,
for our Christmas Eve special, every single Christmas Eve, we
(20:33):
go live here on KFI to talk to you and
celebrate this special Christian holiday coinciding with Hanukkah first time
and some time that tomorrow will mark both Christmas and Hanukkah.
Blessings and joy to our Jewish brothers and sisters celebrating
(20:56):
Hanuka tomorrow. If you have a question, theology question, or
a life situation question anywhere in the US of A
eight hundred and five to zero one five three four,
eight hundred five to zero one five three four, George Anne,
Welcome to Jesus Christchild.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Thank you. I understand from when I've heard that you
weren't actually born in December, that it used to be
a Headich holiday and the church change of de December
to get rid of the other holiday, that you were
born some lane and sometime in summer fall. Is that true?
And can you talk to me about it?
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Sure? Yeah, that's actually a good summation that you just gave.
The accounts in scripture talk about shepherds in their fields
and the like, and just not possible really in the
scheme of things about how that worked and at what
times shepherds were in their fields, and the would put
(22:01):
it more likely around September, which is the majority belief
amongst scholars, would put it in September. However, the Church,
as it often does, gets involved in things, and whether
it's political or trying to push its way around for
its own views, did that very thing. So there are
other traditions out there. March twenty fifth was believed to
(22:24):
be the anniversary of the creation of the world, and
then that kind of pushed into other dates. December twenty fifth,
as you pointed out, specifically had other traditions, so it
had a pagan festival, it dealt and tied into winter solstice.
(22:47):
So the Church, basically, in their view, we're giving Christian
alternative to pagan festivities and kind of usurped lot of
those symbols and actions and turn them into Christian symbols, basically,
(23:10):
just kind of taking them in and associating them now
with Christianity. So a lot of the things, as far
as the trees and the lights and many of these things,
although they can be tied to some symbolism in scripture,
it really was more of a forced fit and that
type of thing, and it was one of those things
(23:31):
that the Church not only did then, but did at
other times as well. So you also have Easter, which
takes from a lot of pagan symbolism and things going
on with the spring and ties them to rebirth and
the like, tying into the resurrection. So it's not the
(23:53):
first time the Church did it. That has come many
times throughout history. Keep in mind that sometimes it was
is sometimes it was tied into the politics and the
nature of the Church, quite honestly, and with that forcing
beliefs and trying to make beliefs more attractive. And the
(24:16):
Church has done things like this throughout the years and
continues to do it. Trying to make i don't know,
the church hip or cool or updated with the times,
whatever it might be. But in those days you had
a lot of festivals and a lot of events that
tied around pagan activities and beliefs, and so if you're
(24:39):
gonna try and keep people's attention, the thought was you
have to tie something. So it wasn't until much later
that that happened. Probably the first time it really pops
up is about the third century or something like that.
It's it happens in the church once tied into that
(25:05):
that these things become more and more popular because the
church wants to make them popular or stand on their
own rather than battle against other belief systems, in this
particular case, Pagans. And keep in mind that Pagans, it's
an ancient belief system that had been around for a
(25:25):
long time that ties into worship of earth and nature.
And so there was a lot of festivals in out
outward symbolism because of nature and being out in nature
and being out in public that were very prominent. And therefore,
you know, the Church didn't always know how to counter that.
(25:48):
As a matter of fact, if you go back through
history in Europe, of Christmas wasn't what you think it
is now. It was filled with a lot of debauchery,
a lot of drinking, a lot of sex, and all
kinds of things. The holiday that you see today and
(26:12):
the kind of Norman Rockwellian imagery is much different than
some of the early days because of the shuffling of
the deck and trying to make it something that it
was important, but it wasn't. For a long time, it
wasn't a major major holiday. But September is more likely
the time of my birth, and that is what is
(26:34):
considered to be the belief among scholars currently. KFI AM
six forty on demand
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