October 20, 2024 • 30 mins
Looking to join a church for the wrong reasons
People that are old souls
Wife Murdered their child
People that are old souls
Wife Murdered their child
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to KFI AM six forty on demand. Jay,
Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Hi Jesus, Hi J. I want to join a church
because for all the wrong reasons, oh boy, because I
don't want to join a country club. I'm sick of
golf and tennis. I'm looking for a little fellowship. And yeah,
maybe I'm doing it for all the wrong reasons. But
I think once I get through the door and I
(00:30):
get in there in part of the program, I think
things will start to happen. What do you think.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
I think that's a great idea. There's nothing wrong with me.
I mean, yeah, you're saying because you're you fall into
the realm of skepticism.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
I've always been a skeptic.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Okay, well, do you know what the philosophy of skepticism.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Is, boy, i'ould like to hear it.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
It is to suspend judgment upon all things. Okay, Okay, yeah, exactly.
That's what's funny about it, is like I guess you
suspend judgment on all things.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Accept skepticism.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
So it's it's one of those kind of belief systems
that that is can be healthy if it's propelling you forward,
if You can't sit in skepticism because by the very
nature that means you accept, you are accepting skepticism, which
is a non skeptical thing to do.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
So I'm not just a guy.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Yeah that could be as well.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
So the important thing is is that you're moving forward
in life and try it out. What can I hurt
sit but receive it. If you sit there in a
restaurant and you don't want to taste anything, and you
don't want to really experience anything, then you're not it's
not going to do you any good. You might catch
the eye of somebody and you might have a chat
and that'll be fine, but you're not going to experience
(01:44):
the truly the restaurant unless you're consuming of its goods.
So I'm hoping that if if you go in, you're
going in to receive and to see what's there and
truly experience it. I don't think that is against skepticism,
some honest skepticism in any way, shape or form. But
to sit in your skeptic bubble, it's not a it's
(02:09):
not productive because the skeptic is still seeking has to
be well.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
I kind of like the idea of fellowship among people
that that believe in, you know, high self esteem. You
know in certain in certain areas that you go to,
there are people there that genuinely feel good about themselves.
And I think that's kind of a step in the
right direction.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Yes, and often, and I'm not a fan of churches
that do that, pretending with the smiles and everybody's always
honky to orient all that. But if there's genuine peace,
Scripture says that there's a piece that surpasses understanding that
it's it's not based on what most people experience jay,
which is happiness, and happiness is a momentary feeling of
(02:54):
joy due to a happening. So if something goes on,
you have cake, you have a party, somebody it's nice
to you, and you get this boost or this rush
of this like little window to joy, and then it
goes away, Whereas a true believer should be finding that
that place of joy, which is something you experienced regardless
of the circumstances around you or whether things are good
(03:16):
or bad. It should be joy based on the sheer
existence and understanding that you're created by a creator who
has a purpose, and.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
That there are people that that tend to flock together
in groups like there's people that are well with skeptics,
of course, but then there's people that are just down
on everything. They tend to get into groups, and then
there's people that are up more upbeat, and they tend
to hang out together.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Well, yes, that can be the case. It's different like
different chemicals that bond together, or different textures that fit together,
or different colors that fit together, and things like that.
But with human beings, quite often it's much easier to
bring someone down than it is to bring someone up.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
So even in a.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Group where there's a lot of positivity or happiness or
true joy, it's it can be difficult if somebody comes
in who's a black cloud and really trying to bring
the room down. And you've seen that happen as well,
you can. It seems it seems that the darkness can
suck the light out of a room sometimes, but the
(04:27):
grouping can meet different ways. I've seen people come in
in very dark places in their life, jay very ugly, ugly,
ugly dark places in their life, and come into a
room with genuine believers, good godly people who don't have
weird agendas, who aren't just about the church and this
weird Churchianity or any of these things. But genuine believers
(04:51):
that have come to understand God, that that just penetrate
deep inside that person, and you wouldn't recognize is them
night and day weeks later, and they'll tell you the
same that it just being around those that are you know,
in tune. You can tell if you've ever been around
an instrument that's out of tune it. I don't care
(05:13):
if you know about instruments or not. You can hear it.
You can feel it in your bones that something's wrong,
even if you can't place your finger on it. And likewise,
you know when something is in tune, and that harmony
of God and the Creator and everything else, it just
it can be, It could be seen, it could be felt.
(05:33):
And as much as you wouldn't argue necessarily the Christian
experience theologically to somebody, especially a skeptic, because experiences are
hard to quantify, you've got to at least give it
a nod and say, well, something is taking place there
and it is worthy of investigation.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Well, you can tell a lot about a place just
by the landscaping.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Yeah, you sure can, which you know what a lot
of police department feel the same way. And a lot
of neighborhoods are very adamant about the way the front
yards look because they say, once windows are broken or
somebody puts a car on the front lawn or they
don't mow their lawn, that that crime actually creeps in.
And uh, my producer Neil recently before he moved, he
(06:19):
was in an apartment complex and he watched, he did
a study, watched that one piece of trash because he's
kind of big on going around and picking up trash
and things like that. That one piece of trash when
left on this one corner of the property, and a
couple of days became two pieces of trash, then became
(06:39):
a broken couch, then became a broken couch and a
broken table, then became a broken couch, a broken table,
and a broken television set, then became bags of canine,
fecal matter, h and all in a matter of one week.
It sounds like, yeah, so that can happen, you know
(07:02):
it it it it tends to perpetuate. People are looking
for permission to do wrong in life quite often, or justification.
And if you turn that on you, you look like
you're you sound like you're on a really good quest Jay,
to find that balance and and to find out what
makes people tick and in the church, and you find
(07:23):
a good church church, and you have that fellowship and
you have good, healthy discussions, and maybe even find one
that that has a you know, an apologetics program or
something where they would enjoy having those types of discussions
with you, or maybe talking about skepticism or you know,
the health of questioning things and those ideas, and you might.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
I'm only I'm only a part time skeptic.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
I see.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
Okay, well that's that's convenient. Yeah, way, I'm curious is
that on your business card? Two things I want to
leave you with as we're up against the clockcare Jay.
First scripture talks about that It says live a life
that people will come up to you and ask why,
you know, why do you have that hope? Why do
(08:07):
you have a hope deep inside you when things are
a mess. And secondly, I want you to think about
a belief system like Christianity that started that started Jay
with a death and being nailed to a cross, that
started on a note on death, on the one thing
that everybody fears equally on earth, that says that that's
(08:30):
the last straw that's the end of it all. It
started there. That was the seed, that was the birth
of this faith. And you won't get any lower than that.
And starting from that, the presumed ashes of that event
blooms the most resilient and arguably this is the Jesus
(08:51):
Christ Show, most beautiful faith on the planet. Pat Welcome
to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Thank you Jesus. Frequently or occasionally, as a teacher, you
come across a young student who's not only intelligent, but
shows a wisdom beyond their years, and they're referred to
sometimes as like an old soul. And I was wondering,
(09:26):
you know what you had to say about reincarnation.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Well, scripture is very clear.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
There's their reincarnation is not playing to the Judeo Christian scriptures.
It says in Hebrews, and this is in Hebrews chapter nine,
verse twenty seven, inasmuch as it is appointed for men
to die once and after this comes judgment. Paul also said,
to be absent from the body is to be present
with the Lord. It says nothing of the sumsoraw or
(09:53):
the cycle of life and coming back and all of
those things. I will tell you that the old soul
concept The interesting thing is is if if you came
across a child who seemed stronger than normal, you wouldn't
think they were reincarnated.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
You'd think that.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Physically, physiologically, they were created in such a way that
they had greater strength. Maybe they were going to become
an athlete or something, but they had greater strength. Intelligence
is one of those things that people think, oh, well,
if they're smart, or if they're a good painter, they
must have been you know, Picasso in another lifetime. And
the funny thing was, I heard somebody say this once.
(10:26):
There was a young girl, a very talented painter, that
painted very similar to Picasso. She was quite young, and
the early comments were, oh my gosh, she's Picasso reincarnated. However,
if you look at Picasso's history and you look the
way he propelled himself in his art, that he was
constantly changing and creating new things, not going backwards, but
(10:50):
going forward, as many artists do, trying new things. A
lot of times artists become known for a particular style
of art, but really they have gone through many different
styles to get to that place. So if Picasso is
going to reincarnate, why start back on a style that
he was died propelling from that he was actually leaving
(11:11):
at the time. I think it's more human for people
to look at that and think, oh, well, they've come
back and have this ability, when really it's just a
child who is exceptionally bright or observant and taking in
more of their surroundings and repeating them. You say wisdom,
(11:34):
but a lot of times it's not wisdom, it's parroting.
It's children hearing things. Maybe they're around smart people, or
they're very observant, or are very aware and take in
all of the elements around them, learning words quicker, learning
ideas quicker. Maybe they're a deep feeler and they feel
emotion in a way and are able to articulate that,
(11:55):
and so it appears that they're actually an old but
really it's just a child. They still, you know, can't drive.
Put them behind a wheel. You put an old soul
behind a wheel, they won't know how to drive. And
I don't recommend trying that, by the way, But there
are things that you could put them, situations you could
put them in that would that they would fail at
(12:17):
as children. They would be exactly like what you'd expect
a child to do. So it's if it was reincarnation,
they would still know how to drive, or they'd still
know how to do this, or they still know how
to do that, and it doesn't play out that way.
I think it's just easier to read into it sometimes
as adults that children aren't as dumb as some adults
(12:38):
think they are, and so when they stand up and
they say something smart, I think it's kind of partly
based on the bias of the adult, assuming that the
child's not going to say something smart, and because the
child happens to be exceptionally observant. Reincarnation is a really
(12:58):
there's more to it than that, but scripture doesn't allow
for it. There's no place in scripture. Wasn't taken out
of scripture, as some people contend. Either on its face,
there are problems with reincarnation. The westernized reincarnation really is
a manufactured want to be based on the actual Eastern
belief and Westerners believe, oh, well, gosh, it's like a
(13:21):
do over. That's not what it's there for. Reincarnation is
not considered a good thing in most Eastern beliefs. It's
a refinement of sort, but it means you didn't get
it right the first time. Greg, Welcome to the Jesus
Christ Show.
Speaker 5 (13:39):
Hello Jesus Hik.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Greg.
Speaker 5 (13:42):
I've got a unique situation and I'm not sure how
to ask my question or question my wife. Last year
she murdered my infant son, my toddler, and she has
a trial coming up here soon. And for what I
unders stand her defense. She's pleading insanity, and her defense,
(14:07):
of course, was a comment on trial. But I think
that she feels that she was speaking with God and
that God instructed her to help my son go to heaven.
And I guess my question basically is a couple a
couple of lines of thought here. First, if it's reasonably
(14:32):
sane to speak to God, and why under certain circumstances
is it considered insane if he speaks to you. And secondly,
if someone firmly believes that God is instructing him to
do something, even something that is horrendous, but they believe it,
(15:01):
is it possible that that is doing God's will? Yeah,
I don't know how to put the thword.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
No, I think you're doing it. I think you're doing
an amazing job. Actually, you ask a question that's part
theology but really seated in one of the most horrific
life experiences anyone can go through. So imagine where I sit.
(15:36):
There's answers I want to give you, and I will.
But when you're telling me that your wife killed your
your son because she heard God tell her, So that's
that's outside of the realm of academics, wouldn't you say?
Speaker 5 (15:59):
Oh? Thinks so. And I'm trying to approach this from
an academic perspective because if I dive into the emotion
and the feeling, it would rip me to shreds more so,
and I think it's a protective mechanism for me.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Are you a person of faith?
Speaker 5 (16:16):
Greg? It's questionable right now. Sure, let's just put it
that way. I'm into sciences.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
That's okay. They're not mutually exclusive.
Speaker 5 (16:24):
Now they are not, and most people don't understand that.
But you know, I h there was after the murder,
a lady with the best intentions of the world. You know,
she's trying to find solace. But when she said that
this was God's will, that really hurt. And if this
is God's will, I look forward to having a talk
(16:45):
with him at some point.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Yeah, I would imagine that would be completely legitimate. Yeah,
I'll tell you this. There are there are things in
scripture people will point to Abraham and Isaac and the
calling of him to kill his son. And the interesting
part when you go into that in scripture is the
(17:10):
words that Abraham uses. He's supposed to go up on
the mountain and take the life of his son, so
commanded by God. The words he uses as he tells
the guys at the base of the mountain is here,
hold this, watch this, I and my son will return shortly.
(17:31):
Now this is someone who's been commanded to kill their son,
and yet his statement was that they're both going to return,
which is the belief in his mind that either God
was not going to have him follow through with it,
or that God would rectify it and reverse it if necessary.
(17:54):
There is not any examples that you're going to go
through in scripture that's going to meet the experience that
you are going through currently. But I will tell you
this that there are specific usages of that kind of
dialogue with God, but they don't exist in the New Testament,
(18:15):
and they would not exist except under the most extreme
of circumstances here on this earth at this time in
this way, So it would be the equivalent of somebody
knowing you, Greg and saying, Greg, is this type of person? Well,
if somebody called me and sounded like you, Greg and
told me to do something that was so out of
(18:37):
character of everything I knew about you, I would automatically
know that it wasn't you telling me.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
And in this.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Particular case, your wife was battling with what is thought
to be a severe bipolar.
Speaker 5 (18:53):
Correct, that's one of the rumors that got started. She
was never diagnosed to my knowledge, okay, And some of
these facts will come out in the trial obviously, and
so there.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Was no sign of any mental illness prior.
Speaker 5 (19:08):
Well, she was troubled and what do you but.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
What do you mean by troubled?
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Right?
Speaker 5 (19:12):
She Well, I don't want to get into the specifics
because of the trial. But no, but the last month
to two months she.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
She had some issues that they.
Speaker 5 (19:25):
Began a downward spiral and it became it was pretty hard.
And then she what she evidently had done was and
it's like after the fact, when you see a jigsaw
puzzled it together. The pieces don't make sense beforehand, Sure
it makes sense afterwards. And she was telling different people
different things and then collectively a huge red flag was up,
(19:48):
but I missed it, and other people that were close
to her missed it. But she I remember one he
I mean, she told me that God had given her
the secrets to the universe. And it was a It
ended up being a heated discussion in that she did
(20:11):
not think that I would ever understand, and so she
got very defensive and very upset with me, and so
at that point she stopped really talking to me about
any of this stuff. And so, you know, she also
had another son who was home on the day of
(20:32):
the murder, and he's he's living through his own personal
health right.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Now, Now, did the boy see the aftermath or yes?
There's no words, Greg that are going to comfort you
(21:02):
in the sense that your child is gone. Your boy
was killed at the hands of his mother, and we're
talking about a mother taking the life of her child.
Speaker 5 (21:16):
I didn't call for I didn't think there were words,
and I really don't know why I called, but I
was Are you mad at God? I've got anger? Absolutely,
I'm mad at myself for not seeing the science.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
But what signence?
Speaker 3 (21:38):
What what does a sign like that look like to
a sane human being?
Speaker 5 (21:43):
It doesn't you're trying to rationalize something that's irrational.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
If you could think like that, you'd be the one
with the issue. True, there's now if you let something
go on and go on and go on. But when
you're in you know, we say this on the program
a lot, that the the lifeguard is out of the
pool for a reason. You know, you can't you're in
the middle of it.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Greg.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
And there's times where I've had people on the air
and we've been talking and when they experienced something and
you know that they're at the end of a long
journey of stupid decisions and you look at them and
you say, didn't you see this? And they say, yeah,
I saw this and this and this and this, and
they saw a huge line of them that you can
(22:30):
look them in the eye and say, shame on you.
You knew this from before you got into this place.
But your wife being in hur late thirties at the time. Correct,
There are this it's outside of the scope of this program,
But there are psychological problems that tend to manifest in
(22:52):
the thirties, and there are things that can come up
that weren't there before. And there are changes chemically that
can go on in a person's uh head and their
brain can go from one speed to another speed. And
it's an ugly part of truth and life as you
(23:17):
know it and experience it. And you had someone that
you knew in love, that you brought a child into
this world with, and that you created a family with
that became a monster of outrageous proportions unfathomable by your
(23:40):
average human being. And how are you going to see
the signs of that unless they are so drastic, I mean,
talking about God or even having bizarre concepts of God.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
That doesn't that doesn't make you crazy, you know.
Speaker 5 (23:56):
There.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
My producer Neil often says that not everybody in the
which is crazy, but everybody that's crazy is in the church.
Because there's something about religion that brings that, that tends
to attract that or combine with that or whatever it is.
And in this particular case, you're seeing the most ugly
(24:19):
signs of that that combination. Greg, hold on a second
as we take a break, because I still want to
talk to you. All right, hold on, Greg, you're still there.
Thanks for holding. Obviously, your story is so is so
(24:41):
outside of normalcy to even you know, even the things
I hear, and trust me, I hear a lot and
I'm overwhelmed by your your courage to make the call
and to bring people up to speed. Greg's wife took
(25:06):
the life of they're seventeen month old boy with their
own hands. You're still sitting with a lot of questions,
and I know that you're going to be angry. You're
going to be angry at God, You're going to be
angry at your wife and confused. This is the woman
(25:29):
you love, that you wanted to have a family with,
and now to try and make sense of it. Something
definitely was going wrong. As far as your question, Greg,
about if people can talk with God, and God can
talk with people, and God can tell people things and
motivate them and encourage them down directions, why couldn't God
(25:53):
say something so heinous? And the simple response is that
it's against the nature of God as he stands now,
as he's shown himself in scripture and revelation. There is
what they call special revelation and general revelation. So general
(26:15):
revelation is that when you look at the universe, Greg,
and when you observe even through the sciences, when.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
You look at creation.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
The whole reason why believers say they believe in creation
is that when you look at Mount Rushmore, for instance,
you don't look at that as a reasonable person and
say that happened because of erosion. It doesn't make sense.
It has design and specificity in its very nature. So
(26:44):
that's general revelation that you can look at something and
you can tell a lot about it by just observing
it as it is. You can tell that a watch
didn't just happen because of ore and metals and silicone
and all these things come together. You look at it
and you say, this is handcrafted. And then there's specific
(27:05):
revelation that is the Bible, That is that there are
specific things said by God and that have been passed
down to man, and in both those they scream against
the harming of one another in nature and creation. It
cannot perpetuate if you had that kind of blatant disregard.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
For your children.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
And God is never going to tell you to do
something that is against the very nature of God. Thou
shalt not kill? Really is thou shalt not murder? The
word there in the Hebrews rat shah It means to
dice into pieces the innocent. And everything that your wife
(27:58):
did was contrary to the word of God in its
current stand in its current form and its current teachings.
So it is no more different than, as I said,
for you to say something that was out of character
so much so that I would disregard it on its face,
because it's outside of the character and the realm and
(28:20):
structure and understanding that I have of who you are.
Something went wrong with your wife, whether that's chemical or whatever.
That's not for the scope of this show. That does
happen to some, but it certainly would never excuse such
a heinous act to take place. And you know, I'm
(28:43):
not a big fan of the pleading when it comes to.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Insanity.
Speaker 5 (28:55):
From what I understand, the legal definitions are paramount and
only through the trial, of course. Well, I mean, obviously
there's my opinion there's something wrong with her, But whether
that alleviates her from her responsibility, of course, that's up
(29:16):
to the jury, you know, to decide.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
Sure, And there needs to be a level of accountability always,
And the things of the spiritual nature, the things of
God are different, and there's a difference between the price
that needs to be paid here on earth versus what
will take place in heaven is a whole other issue.
But I know that time goes by quickly on the
(29:41):
program and our time has cut short. But I want
to talk to you off the air if you can
hang tight just for a moment, as I'd like to
pray with you as well
Speaker 1 (29:55):
On demand
You're listening to KFI AM six forty on demand. Jay,
Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Hi Jesus, Hi J. I want to join a church
because for all the wrong reasons, oh boy, because I
don't want to join a country club. I'm sick of
golf and tennis. I'm looking for a little fellowship. And yeah,
maybe I'm doing it for all the wrong reasons. But
I think once I get through the door and I
(00:30):
get in there in part of the program, I think
things will start to happen. What do you think.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
I think that's a great idea. There's nothing wrong with me.
I mean, yeah, you're saying because you're you fall into
the realm of skepticism.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
I've always been a skeptic.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Okay, well, do you know what the philosophy of skepticism.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Is, boy, i'ould like to hear it.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
It is to suspend judgment upon all things. Okay, Okay, yeah, exactly.
That's what's funny about it, is like I guess you
suspend judgment on all things.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Accept skepticism.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
So it's it's one of those kind of belief systems
that that is can be healthy if it's propelling you forward,
if You can't sit in skepticism because by the very
nature that means you accept, you are accepting skepticism, which
is a non skeptical thing to do.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
So I'm not just a guy.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Yeah that could be as well.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
So the important thing is is that you're moving forward
in life and try it out. What can I hurt
sit but receive it. If you sit there in a
restaurant and you don't want to taste anything, and you
don't want to really experience anything, then you're not it's
not going to do you any good. You might catch
the eye of somebody and you might have a chat
and that'll be fine, but you're not going to experience
(01:44):
the truly the restaurant unless you're consuming of its goods.
So I'm hoping that if if you go in, you're
going in to receive and to see what's there and
truly experience it. I don't think that is against skepticism,
some honest skepticism in any way, shape or form. But
to sit in your skeptic bubble, it's not a it's
(02:09):
not productive because the skeptic is still seeking has to
be well.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
I kind of like the idea of fellowship among people
that that believe in, you know, high self esteem. You
know in certain in certain areas that you go to,
there are people there that genuinely feel good about themselves.
And I think that's kind of a step in the
right direction.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Yes, and often, and I'm not a fan of churches
that do that, pretending with the smiles and everybody's always
honky to orient all that. But if there's genuine peace,
Scripture says that there's a piece that surpasses understanding that
it's it's not based on what most people experience jay,
which is happiness, and happiness is a momentary feeling of
(02:54):
joy due to a happening. So if something goes on,
you have cake, you have a party, somebody it's nice
to you, and you get this boost or this rush
of this like little window to joy, and then it
goes away, Whereas a true believer should be finding that
that place of joy, which is something you experienced regardless
of the circumstances around you or whether things are good
(03:16):
or bad. It should be joy based on the sheer
existence and understanding that you're created by a creator who
has a purpose, and.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
That there are people that that tend to flock together
in groups like there's people that are well with skeptics,
of course, but then there's people that are just down
on everything. They tend to get into groups, and then
there's people that are up more upbeat, and they tend
to hang out together.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Well, yes, that can be the case. It's different like
different chemicals that bond together, or different textures that fit together,
or different colors that fit together, and things like that.
But with human beings, quite often it's much easier to
bring someone down than it is to bring someone up.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
So even in a.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Group where there's a lot of positivity or happiness or
true joy, it's it can be difficult if somebody comes
in who's a black cloud and really trying to bring
the room down. And you've seen that happen as well,
you can. It seems it seems that the darkness can
suck the light out of a room sometimes, but the
(04:27):
grouping can meet different ways. I've seen people come in
in very dark places in their life, jay very ugly, ugly,
ugly dark places in their life, and come into a
room with genuine believers, good godly people who don't have
weird agendas, who aren't just about the church and this
weird Churchianity or any of these things. But genuine believers
(04:51):
that have come to understand God, that that just penetrate
deep inside that person, and you wouldn't recognize is them
night and day weeks later, and they'll tell you the
same that it just being around those that are you know,
in tune. You can tell if you've ever been around
an instrument that's out of tune it. I don't care
(05:13):
if you know about instruments or not. You can hear it.
You can feel it in your bones that something's wrong,
even if you can't place your finger on it. And likewise,
you know when something is in tune, and that harmony
of God and the Creator and everything else, it just
it can be, It could be seen, it could be felt.
(05:33):
And as much as you wouldn't argue necessarily the Christian
experience theologically to somebody, especially a skeptic, because experiences are
hard to quantify, you've got to at least give it
a nod and say, well, something is taking place there
and it is worthy of investigation.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Well, you can tell a lot about a place just
by the landscaping.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Yeah, you sure can, which you know what a lot
of police department feel the same way. And a lot
of neighborhoods are very adamant about the way the front
yards look because they say, once windows are broken or
somebody puts a car on the front lawn or they
don't mow their lawn, that that crime actually creeps in.
And uh, my producer Neil recently before he moved, he
(06:19):
was in an apartment complex and he watched, he did
a study, watched that one piece of trash because he's
kind of big on going around and picking up trash
and things like that. That one piece of trash when
left on this one corner of the property, and a
couple of days became two pieces of trash, then became
(06:39):
a broken couch, then became a broken couch and a
broken table, then became a broken couch, a broken table,
and a broken television set, then became bags of canine,
fecal matter, h and all in a matter of one week.
It sounds like, yeah, so that can happen, you know
(07:02):
it it it it tends to perpetuate. People are looking
for permission to do wrong in life quite often, or justification.
And if you turn that on you, you look like
you're you sound like you're on a really good quest Jay,
to find that balance and and to find out what
makes people tick and in the church, and you find
(07:23):
a good church church, and you have that fellowship and
you have good, healthy discussions, and maybe even find one
that that has a you know, an apologetics program or
something where they would enjoy having those types of discussions
with you, or maybe talking about skepticism or you know,
the health of questioning things and those ideas, and you might.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
I'm only I'm only a part time skeptic.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
I see.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
Okay, well that's that's convenient. Yeah, way, I'm curious is
that on your business card? Two things I want to
leave you with as we're up against the clockcare Jay.
First scripture talks about that It says live a life
that people will come up to you and ask why,
you know, why do you have that hope? Why do
(08:07):
you have a hope deep inside you when things are
a mess. And secondly, I want you to think about
a belief system like Christianity that started that started Jay
with a death and being nailed to a cross, that
started on a note on death, on the one thing
that everybody fears equally on earth, that says that that's
(08:30):
the last straw that's the end of it all. It
started there. That was the seed, that was the birth
of this faith. And you won't get any lower than that.
And starting from that, the presumed ashes of that event
blooms the most resilient and arguably this is the Jesus
(08:51):
Christ Show, most beautiful faith on the planet. Pat Welcome
to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Thank you Jesus. Frequently or occasionally, as a teacher, you
come across a young student who's not only intelligent, but
shows a wisdom beyond their years, and they're referred to
sometimes as like an old soul. And I was wondering,
(09:26):
you know what you had to say about reincarnation.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Well, scripture is very clear.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
There's their reincarnation is not playing to the Judeo Christian scriptures.
It says in Hebrews, and this is in Hebrews chapter nine,
verse twenty seven, inasmuch as it is appointed for men
to die once and after this comes judgment. Paul also said,
to be absent from the body is to be present
with the Lord. It says nothing of the sumsoraw or
(09:53):
the cycle of life and coming back and all of
those things. I will tell you that the old soul
concept The interesting thing is is if if you came
across a child who seemed stronger than normal, you wouldn't
think they were reincarnated.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
You'd think that.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Physically, physiologically, they were created in such a way that
they had greater strength. Maybe they were going to become
an athlete or something, but they had greater strength. Intelligence
is one of those things that people think, oh, well,
if they're smart, or if they're a good painter, they
must have been you know, Picasso in another lifetime. And
the funny thing was, I heard somebody say this once.
(10:26):
There was a young girl, a very talented painter, that
painted very similar to Picasso. She was quite young, and
the early comments were, oh my gosh, she's Picasso reincarnated. However,
if you look at Picasso's history and you look the
way he propelled himself in his art, that he was
constantly changing and creating new things, not going backwards, but
(10:50):
going forward, as many artists do, trying new things. A
lot of times artists become known for a particular style
of art, but really they have gone through many different
styles to get to that place. So if Picasso is
going to reincarnate, why start back on a style that
he was died propelling from that he was actually leaving
(11:11):
at the time. I think it's more human for people
to look at that and think, oh, well, they've come
back and have this ability, when really it's just a
child who is exceptionally bright or observant and taking in
more of their surroundings and repeating them. You say wisdom,
(11:34):
but a lot of times it's not wisdom, it's parroting.
It's children hearing things. Maybe they're around smart people, or
they're very observant, or are very aware and take in
all of the elements around them, learning words quicker, learning
ideas quicker. Maybe they're a deep feeler and they feel
emotion in a way and are able to articulate that,
(11:55):
and so it appears that they're actually an old but
really it's just a child. They still, you know, can't drive.
Put them behind a wheel. You put an old soul
behind a wheel, they won't know how to drive. And
I don't recommend trying that, by the way, But there
are things that you could put them, situations you could
put them in that would that they would fail at
(12:17):
as children. They would be exactly like what you'd expect
a child to do. So it's if it was reincarnation,
they would still know how to drive, or they'd still
know how to do this, or they still know how
to do that, and it doesn't play out that way.
I think it's just easier to read into it sometimes
as adults that children aren't as dumb as some adults
(12:38):
think they are, and so when they stand up and
they say something smart, I think it's kind of partly
based on the bias of the adult, assuming that the
child's not going to say something smart, and because the
child happens to be exceptionally observant. Reincarnation is a really
(12:58):
there's more to it than that, but scripture doesn't allow
for it. There's no place in scripture. Wasn't taken out
of scripture, as some people contend. Either on its face,
there are problems with reincarnation. The westernized reincarnation really is
a manufactured want to be based on the actual Eastern
belief and Westerners believe, oh, well, gosh, it's like a
(13:21):
do over. That's not what it's there for. Reincarnation is
not considered a good thing in most Eastern beliefs. It's
a refinement of sort, but it means you didn't get
it right the first time. Greg, Welcome to the Jesus
Christ Show.
Speaker 5 (13:39):
Hello Jesus Hik.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Greg.
Speaker 5 (13:42):
I've got a unique situation and I'm not sure how
to ask my question or question my wife. Last year
she murdered my infant son, my toddler, and she has
a trial coming up here soon. And for what I
unders stand her defense. She's pleading insanity, and her defense,
(14:07):
of course, was a comment on trial. But I think
that she feels that she was speaking with God and
that God instructed her to help my son go to heaven.
And I guess my question basically is a couple a
couple of lines of thought here. First, if it's reasonably
(14:32):
sane to speak to God, and why under certain circumstances
is it considered insane if he speaks to you. And secondly,
if someone firmly believes that God is instructing him to
do something, even something that is horrendous, but they believe it,
(15:01):
is it possible that that is doing God's will? Yeah,
I don't know how to put the thword.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
No, I think you're doing it. I think you're doing
an amazing job. Actually, you ask a question that's part
theology but really seated in one of the most horrific
life experiences anyone can go through. So imagine where I sit.
(15:36):
There's answers I want to give you, and I will.
But when you're telling me that your wife killed your
your son because she heard God tell her, So that's
that's outside of the realm of academics, wouldn't you say?
Speaker 5 (15:59):
Oh? Thinks so. And I'm trying to approach this from
an academic perspective because if I dive into the emotion
and the feeling, it would rip me to shreds more so,
and I think it's a protective mechanism for me.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Are you a person of faith?
Speaker 5 (16:16):
Greg? It's questionable right now. Sure, let's just put it
that way. I'm into sciences.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
That's okay. They're not mutually exclusive.
Speaker 5 (16:24):
Now they are not, and most people don't understand that.
But you know, I h there was after the murder,
a lady with the best intentions of the world. You know,
she's trying to find solace. But when she said that
this was God's will, that really hurt. And if this
is God's will, I look forward to having a talk
(16:45):
with him at some point.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Yeah, I would imagine that would be completely legitimate. Yeah,
I'll tell you this. There are there are things in
scripture people will point to Abraham and Isaac and the
calling of him to kill his son. And the interesting
part when you go into that in scripture is the
(17:10):
words that Abraham uses. He's supposed to go up on
the mountain and take the life of his son, so
commanded by God. The words he uses as he tells
the guys at the base of the mountain is here,
hold this, watch this, I and my son will return shortly.
(17:31):
Now this is someone who's been commanded to kill their son,
and yet his statement was that they're both going to return,
which is the belief in his mind that either God
was not going to have him follow through with it,
or that God would rectify it and reverse it if necessary.
(17:54):
There is not any examples that you're going to go
through in scripture that's going to meet the experience that
you are going through currently. But I will tell you
this that there are specific usages of that kind of
dialogue with God, but they don't exist in the New Testament,
(18:15):
and they would not exist except under the most extreme
of circumstances here on this earth at this time in
this way, So it would be the equivalent of somebody
knowing you, Greg and saying, Greg, is this type of person? Well,
if somebody called me and sounded like you, Greg and
told me to do something that was so out of
(18:37):
character of everything I knew about you, I would automatically
know that it wasn't you telling me.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
And in this.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Particular case, your wife was battling with what is thought
to be a severe bipolar.
Speaker 5 (18:53):
Correct, that's one of the rumors that got started. She
was never diagnosed to my knowledge, okay, And some of
these facts will come out in the trial obviously, and
so there.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Was no sign of any mental illness prior.
Speaker 5 (19:08):
Well, she was troubled and what do you but.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
What do you mean by troubled?
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Right?
Speaker 5 (19:12):
She Well, I don't want to get into the specifics
because of the trial. But no, but the last month
to two months she.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
She had some issues that they.
Speaker 5 (19:25):
Began a downward spiral and it became it was pretty hard.
And then she what she evidently had done was and
it's like after the fact, when you see a jigsaw
puzzled it together. The pieces don't make sense beforehand, Sure
it makes sense afterwards. And she was telling different people
different things and then collectively a huge red flag was up,
(19:48):
but I missed it, and other people that were close
to her missed it. But she I remember one he
I mean, she told me that God had given her
the secrets to the universe. And it was a It
ended up being a heated discussion in that she did
(20:11):
not think that I would ever understand, and so she
got very defensive and very upset with me, and so
at that point she stopped really talking to me about
any of this stuff. And so, you know, she also
had another son who was home on the day of
(20:32):
the murder, and he's he's living through his own personal
health right.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Now, Now, did the boy see the aftermath or yes?
There's no words, Greg that are going to comfort you
(21:02):
in the sense that your child is gone. Your boy
was killed at the hands of his mother, and we're
talking about a mother taking the life of her child.
Speaker 5 (21:16):
I didn't call for I didn't think there were words,
and I really don't know why I called, but I
was Are you mad at God? I've got anger? Absolutely,
I'm mad at myself for not seeing the science.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
But what signence?
Speaker 3 (21:38):
What what does a sign like that look like to
a sane human being?
Speaker 5 (21:43):
It doesn't you're trying to rationalize something that's irrational.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
If you could think like that, you'd be the one
with the issue. True, there's now if you let something
go on and go on and go on. But when
you're in you know, we say this on the program
a lot, that the the lifeguard is out of the
pool for a reason. You know, you can't you're in
the middle of it.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Greg.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
And there's times where I've had people on the air
and we've been talking and when they experienced something and
you know that they're at the end of a long
journey of stupid decisions and you look at them and
you say, didn't you see this? And they say, yeah,
I saw this and this and this and this, and
they saw a huge line of them that you can
(22:30):
look them in the eye and say, shame on you.
You knew this from before you got into this place.
But your wife being in hur late thirties at the time. Correct,
There are this it's outside of the scope of this program,
But there are psychological problems that tend to manifest in
(22:52):
the thirties, and there are things that can come up
that weren't there before. And there are changes chemically that
can go on in a person's uh head and their
brain can go from one speed to another speed. And
it's an ugly part of truth and life as you
(23:17):
know it and experience it. And you had someone that
you knew in love, that you brought a child into
this world with, and that you created a family with
that became a monster of outrageous proportions unfathomable by your
(23:40):
average human being. And how are you going to see
the signs of that unless they are so drastic, I mean,
talking about God or even having bizarre concepts of God.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
That doesn't that doesn't make you crazy, you know.
Speaker 5 (23:56):
There.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
My producer Neil often says that not everybody in the
which is crazy, but everybody that's crazy is in the church.
Because there's something about religion that brings that, that tends
to attract that or combine with that or whatever it is.
And in this particular case, you're seeing the most ugly
(24:19):
signs of that that combination. Greg, hold on a second
as we take a break, because I still want to
talk to you. All right, hold on, Greg, you're still there.
Thanks for holding. Obviously, your story is so is so
(24:41):
outside of normalcy to even you know, even the things
I hear, and trust me, I hear a lot and
I'm overwhelmed by your your courage to make the call
and to bring people up to speed. Greg's wife took
(25:06):
the life of they're seventeen month old boy with their
own hands. You're still sitting with a lot of questions,
and I know that you're going to be angry. You're
going to be angry at God, You're going to be
angry at your wife and confused. This is the woman
(25:29):
you love, that you wanted to have a family with,
and now to try and make sense of it. Something
definitely was going wrong. As far as your question, Greg,
about if people can talk with God, and God can
talk with people, and God can tell people things and
motivate them and encourage them down directions, why couldn't God
(25:53):
say something so heinous? And the simple response is that
it's against the nature of God as he stands now,
as he's shown himself in scripture and revelation. There is
what they call special revelation and general revelation. So general
(26:15):
revelation is that when you look at the universe, Greg,
and when you observe even through the sciences, when.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
You look at creation.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
The whole reason why believers say they believe in creation
is that when you look at Mount Rushmore, for instance,
you don't look at that as a reasonable person and
say that happened because of erosion. It doesn't make sense.
It has design and specificity in its very nature. So
(26:44):
that's general revelation that you can look at something and
you can tell a lot about it by just observing
it as it is. You can tell that a watch
didn't just happen because of ore and metals and silicone
and all these things come together. You look at it
and you say, this is handcrafted. And then there's specific
(27:05):
revelation that is the Bible, That is that there are
specific things said by God and that have been passed
down to man, and in both those they scream against
the harming of one another in nature and creation. It
cannot perpetuate if you had that kind of blatant disregard.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
For your children.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
And God is never going to tell you to do
something that is against the very nature of God. Thou
shalt not kill? Really is thou shalt not murder? The
word there in the Hebrews rat shah It means to
dice into pieces the innocent. And everything that your wife
(27:58):
did was contrary to the word of God in its
current stand in its current form and its current teachings.
So it is no more different than, as I said,
for you to say something that was out of character
so much so that I would disregard it on its face,
because it's outside of the character and the realm and
(28:20):
structure and understanding that I have of who you are.
Something went wrong with your wife, whether that's chemical or whatever.
That's not for the scope of this show. That does
happen to some, but it certainly would never excuse such
a heinous act to take place. And you know, I'm
(28:43):
not a big fan of the pleading when it comes to.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Insanity.
Speaker 5 (28:55):
From what I understand, the legal definitions are paramount and
only through the trial, of course. Well, I mean, obviously
there's my opinion there's something wrong with her, But whether
that alleviates her from her responsibility, of course, that's up
(29:16):
to the jury, you know, to decide.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
Sure, And there needs to be a level of accountability always,
And the things of the spiritual nature, the things of
God are different, and there's a difference between the price
that needs to be paid here on earth versus what
will take place in heaven is a whole other issue.
But I know that time goes by quickly on the
(29:41):
program and our time has cut short. But I want
to talk to you off the air if you can
hang tight just for a moment, as I'd like to
pray with you as well
Speaker 1 (29:55):
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