December 8, 2024 • 29 mins
Why Was Jesus Sacrifice Nessary
Spirits and Ghosts
Divorced But Still Live Together is it a Sin
Spirits and Ghosts
Divorced But Still Live Together is it a Sin
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to KFI A six forty on demand.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Kerrie, Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hi Lord, Hi, how you doing?
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I am well and you doing pretty good.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Here's my question. It's bothered me ever since I've learned
anything about Christianity. Why if God wants us all to
come to him, to come back to him, was the
blood sacrifice of his own son necessary? To whom were
you sacrificed? And couldn't he just wave a magic wand
(00:36):
and bring us all back? I don't understand the vicarious
atonement thing.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Yeah, it gets a little odd and it's certainly a
little bloody.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Wouldn't you say, yeah, yeah, I'm a parent, you know
I wouldn't do that to my own son for anything.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
No, but you you have to think of well, think
of it this way. There there's a movie. We even
talked about it on the website as well. But there's
a movie. And if you've an old analogy that's used
(01:12):
for people to understand, and it's pretty weighty. But let's
say you worked for a train company and it was
your job to flip this switch to make sure that
the bridge came down every day at the same time,
and This train was an incredibly popular train, and thousands
of people were on it every single day, men, women, children,
(01:36):
of all different kinds of walks of life. And one
day the train's coming and you looked for your son,
and you go running into the control room to go
and flip that switch to prepare for the bridge to
come down so this train could cross safely. At the
(02:00):
last moment, you look up and you see that your
son has ran off and is now in the gears
playing around of this bridge. And you either flip the
switch that would most certainly take the life of your child,
(02:21):
or leave it open, which would most certainly take the
life of every man, woman, and child on that train.
As a human, your desire is going to save your
child alone. Probably you may say, well, you know what, hey,
my child's more important. However, the repercussions of that aren't done.
(02:45):
Just at that moment. The child would now know forever
and ever that the weight and the blood of all
those people were on him. There are other problems that
could come when it comes to this ultimate sacrifice. You
have throughout Scripture Leviticus seventeen eleven fourteen the concept of
(03:11):
life being blood. That blood really is what is considered
the life stream of every living human, and in this
also sin is a bound. Genesis two talks about how
Adam and Eve and the bloodline gets tainted. So in
(03:34):
this particular case, the only way to pay for it
is blood sacrifice, because that is the payment, that is
the method of payment. However, the sacrificial lambs and the
spotless lambs and all this it was only temporary, always
(03:55):
only temporary, like writing checks. The only true way to
do it was to have someone sinless make the payment
for all, once and for all, a true payment.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
I understand that. It just seems to me the question
I have is the payment to whom? And if that
whom is God, couldn't he just make it happen without that?
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Well, that's the human thing. That's the human thing, because
the humans are always looking for the way out? What's
the angle? Where's the loophole? God doesn't God does things
righteously solely. Now, if you'll bear through another analogy, if
you could imagine, let's say a judge. Now you're a judge. Boy,
you have a lot of jobs today. So now you're
a judge, and you put on that robe and you're
(04:47):
sitting there and on the docket. You look and it's
your son again that comes in and has caused a
considerable amount of damage tens of thousands of dollars. As
a judge, you have to do the full extent of
the law because that is the righteous thing to do.
(05:08):
But as a father, there's nothing wrong with you taking
that robe off, or a mother in this case, taking
that robe off, going down off of the bench and
paying that for him. But you couldn't just waive it
because that would be unrighteous. It would be unjust to
just wave it. So what you have here is God
(05:33):
sticking to the letter of the law and the righteousness
of that law, but also being so loving that he
makes the payment himself.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
So it's really the pillars of justice and mercies.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Absolutely, It's just not the way humans deal with it,
because humans are always looking for the loophole. Well, isn't
there a way God could know? Because that magic wand
that you talk about, if God waived that magic wand,
all it would be eracing? Is justice? Do you really
want justice erased?
Speaker 1 (06:08):
I understand.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
So when years ago, when the horrible happenings of Katrina
took place, we got calls, We got people calling and say,
how could you let something like this happen? Now, hurricanes
are caused by water, hot air, cold air, So which
would you have me remove? No water, no hot air,
(06:32):
no cold air. You must understand that really, even though
there are bad things that take place on this planet,
they weren't originally set out that way. But through you know,
decisions and pollution and all kinds of things, things get muted.
And that's kind of the way the bloodline was going.
But ultimately, all these things have a purpose, and justice
(06:54):
has a purpose. And you can't just sidestep justice because
it's inconvenient. That's that then it without justice. Trust me,
there'll be plenty more inconvenience that are that are larger.
And so this concept of God sidestepping the rules or
not participate, or saying well, I'll just make wave my
magic wand and it won't matter this time, would just
(07:16):
change the concept of justice and then everybody's in the doghouse.
This way is a beautiful bridge that is perfection to
get back into the arms of God, set forth by
(07:38):
God and yes, paid for by God as well. Sequoia,
welcome to the Jesus Christ Show. Hi, I am well, Sequoia,
How how are you?
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Oh, I'm good. Do you remember me from two years ago?
Speaker 2 (08:00):
How can you forget a name like Sequoia?
Speaker 4 (08:03):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Okay, I was I was just checking and you remember.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
I always ask if your if your parents know that
you're calling?
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
And do they know that you're calling?
Speaker 3 (08:13):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Excellent? Okay, How can I help you?
Speaker 3 (08:17):
I had a question about spiritual world because I've been here,
I've been hearing a lot of stories that spirit some
spirits are afraid of people. So I was I was
gonna ask, like, do do spirits do they like? Do
(08:41):
they do they act like humans? Like like say, if
some someone saw ghosts, like they make a big fuss
about it, like ohs and all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Gotcha? Well, it depends what you mean by spirit because, uh,
a lot of a lot of times there shows that
I don't recommend. There's a lot of these paranormal shows
and things like that on television and where they go
or ghost hunters and things like that where they're going
to look for ghosts this program, this show here. We
(09:14):
don't believe that there's ghosts. We don't believe that there
is disembodied humans walking the earth. And so when we
talk about spirits, on this show, we're talking about angels,
and you have two classifications basically of angels, and you
have those that are elect or still in heaven with
the Father, and then you have those that have parted
(09:35):
and broke their union with God and now are yeah,
fallen angels exactly, and they're called demons. So those are
the two classes. So when we talk about spirits on
this program, that's what we're talking about. We're not talking
about ghosts. And when you hear terms like the holy
ghost and things like that, or someone gave up the
(09:56):
ghost or things like that, that's usually talking about the spirit,
but not like on television when they're talking about ghosts,
are actually human beings that have died and then don't
have their bodies anymore and they're walking around. So we
don't believe on this program that those exist. We don't
believe in those types of ghosts. So if you're talking
about are there spirits like angels that are afraid of humans, No,
(10:20):
they're respectful of humans because humans are God's creation and
although angels are God's creation as well, there is a
special relationship between God and man, and angels respect that.
Now demons don't respect that. The same, but still respect
the power of God. So they would be afraid of
(10:42):
a Christian absolutely, because a Christian has the power of
God in their heart and therefore can call upon the
angels to defend them, the good angels. So in that sense,
they might be afraid.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Yeah, because I've been hearing a bunch of these a
bunch of these radio shows that talk about like spirits
that like that haven't got their wings that yet, like
the angels that haven't got their wings yet. They're like
scared of humans that like they go, oh, it's a
(11:17):
ghost and all.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
That stuff like Scooby Doo or something. Yeah, yeah, that's
that's not what we believe. And and there's a lot
of shows out there believe it or not. Not Everything
on radio should be received as truth.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
And yeah, because I I really don't think that angel
I don't really think that angels would go, oh, it's
a ghost, because like, angels and humans are basically the
same thing, except like the angels, they have one more
part that we don't have yet. And what's that that's
(11:57):
that's like the smart.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
And the well, it's interesting. There are definitely similarities between
humans and angels, but we are very different. The set
apart as far as dealing with my humanity is very
different than an angel, and so your humanity is very different,
but there are similar similarities. Some people say that's because
of the intellect, will and emotion is what separates them.
(12:22):
But unfortunately we run out of time, Sequoia. But it's
always so nice to talk to you. Will you call
again sometime?
Speaker 3 (12:29):
Yes, I'll call, like how we're supposed to six months
after Yeah, there you.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Go, or you could call us you've obviously been prepped well,
or during our Christmas Eve show combing up. You're absolutely
welcome to call there. And I'd love to hear from
you again. How precious I now some of you because
you listen at different times. You listen to the show
(12:57):
at different times. Sometimes you'll hear more of the first hour,
or the second hour, more the third hour, whatever it
might be that you might miss something. So I want
to talk to Jane and her hundred her husband Patrick
in just a moment. But before I do that, I
want so you understand where this came from. That Jane
called me and we spoke briefly, but we came up
(13:21):
against the clock and I thought that there was a
better solution for this, so give us a listen real
quick before we bring Jane back on. Jane, Welcome to
Jesus Christ show my name. Hi, you've been so patient.
We have just a couple of moments. How can I
help you?
Speaker 5 (13:36):
My husband and I are divorced nine years but yet
we still lived together. Am I committing a sin?
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Why are you guys living together?
Speaker 5 (13:46):
Because nine years ago our daughter was still in high
school and we didn't want to make her choose, so
we decided to be adults and raise her together. Okay,
but now she's twenty one and we're still living together.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Well, you guys, uh don't have physical relations or anything,
do you?
Speaker 5 (14:02):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Oh you do? Why?
Speaker 5 (14:05):
Because we love one another?
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Well, then why aren't you married?
Speaker 5 (14:09):
Why did why not get married? I don't know, you'd
have to ask him.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
I think, well, why did you guys get a divorce?
Speaker 5 (14:15):
Why? Because I thought it was the same thing to
do while in the midst of my addictions, which it wasn't,
but at the time I thought it was okay.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
So under duress and you know, being a little confused
and where you were, you made some bad decisions, A
lot of bad decisions. Make it right.
Speaker 5 (14:31):
I've been trying. I've been an example. I pray every
day to the Lord to soften his heart.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
And what does your husband say, what's his reason for
not doing it?
Speaker 5 (14:40):
He's afraid that I'll just do it again and leave him.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
M hm. So that's where we left it. Jane you there, yes, okay?
And uh, Patrick you there, I'm here. Excellent. I want
to thank both of you for being so bold and
brave as we say on the program to call in together.
And Patrick, you got to hear a little bit about
(15:07):
what Jane and I spoke about last week, and a
lot of questions arise and life, you know, life has
sharp edges, and you know, nooks and crannies and not
everything is so perfectly laid out. And I know that
some people on their high horses point out things and say, well,
you should have done this, and you should have done that.
That's not the concern of this program. The concern of
(15:29):
this program is really trying to look at the decisions
that are made in light of scripture and see what
the best and most efficient and the most righteous thing
to do in a given situation. And people of faith
often wrestle with their own decisions as everyone else does,
and that's okay. But here you have a long relationship
(15:53):
of marriage and there's some problems. Jane. You went through addiction. Correct,
kind of addiction?
Speaker 5 (16:00):
Was that alcohol and drugs?
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Okay? And what kind of drugs?
Speaker 5 (16:07):
Speak?
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Uh? Huh and uh? And this must have been incredibly
difficult on you, Patrick, correct. Yes, And it's it's scary
to see somebody who you know, who's in control to
be out of control, and especially if there's nothing you
can do for them. But uh, and I can understand
(16:34):
that give makes you kind of gunshy with with dealing
with Jane, But why and staying together for the kids.
But if you're afraid of of what might happen or
the unknown, you wouldn't want that around a child, even
a growing child. So why did you guys decide to
stay together at all?
Speaker 4 (16:55):
She went through reab and and we had all the
kids at home and she had gottenfgether.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Okay, So she's so And how long has she had
her life together?
Speaker 4 (17:12):
Over nine years?
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Okay?
Speaker 5 (17:15):
You know.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
And if you're still together and you're still physical and
having those relations and truly having a relationship, why not
just get married and make things right again and consider
it a detour.
Speaker 4 (17:29):
I kind of feel like I'm safer, like we've already
done that so that, you know, maybe it's a safety
and mechanism for my heart, but it.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Really isn't, because ultimately you're no one looks back at
the piece of paper and says, Wow, that piece of
paper really did it. It's all about the heart issues anyways.
It's about the physicality of it. It's about giving yourself
to her and her giving herself to you, and all
of those things are the real part of it. The
other is the judicial part of it. That's the courts
(18:02):
and the like, the civil aspect. That's how a community works.
They say, we want to know who are married people are,
and you go through a ceremony and we stamp it
and that makes it legal. But really that's not what
gives you the emotional ties. The emotional ties comes from
being together, going through thick and thin, going through the
(18:22):
ups and downs, and barreling through it. Right. Isn't that
what makes a marriage a marriage, not just the piece
of paper. Yes, and you both are experiencing that now
without the piece of paper, yes, yes, yeah, So there's
no protection there at all. Patrick, I mean, if anything,
(18:44):
it's it's a foolish place for you to be in
your head to think that there is a safety net there.
There isn't and there isn't a safety net in any marriage,
none whatsoever. And even if these nine years had been
you know, peaches and cream, they haven't been. But even
(19:05):
if they were, there is no safety net. So I'm
I'm not sure. I mean, I understand that the gun
shy aspect of things when there's been something traumatic and
you know, you you watch. Was there was there any
usage prior to getting together Patrick.
Speaker 5 (19:25):
When we were eighteen and nineteen?
Speaker 4 (19:27):
Okay, so this is the recreational use by both of us.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Okay, when we were younger.
Speaker 5 (19:36):
Yeah, with Niche for thirty five years.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
And did did Patrick? Did you just get bored with
the concept of drinking and drugs and Jane got more interested? Yes?
And Jane, why do you think that that drugs and
alcohol became so interesting to you?
Speaker 5 (19:58):
I think it was just a way to escape out
of my head. I didn't have a bad childhood. I
had a great marriage. I had a man that loved me.
I don't I have nine years, never.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Been able to put.
Speaker 5 (20:14):
The hammer on the nail to know exactly why I
did it, but it just overtook me.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
What's going on in your head that you wanted to
get away from it?
Speaker 5 (20:25):
I wish I knew I had a wonderful life. I
think I just it just became easier to be outside
of myself.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Okay, I'm the Lord, and that has changed your usage,
I'm assumed.
Speaker 5 (20:42):
No, at first, it took me, even after finding him
and accepting him as my Lord and savior, it still
took me another rehab to really truly get on my
knees and bring him into my life.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Nothing wrong with that, nothing wrong with that at all.
But you're at a place stability now.
Speaker 5 (21:01):
Yes, Yes, I have a job, I have money in
the bank, I have a home, I have my family
all back, I have everything back in my life. My
life is so blessed. I don't even know why. I
know the Lord loves me, but I don't know why
he loves me this much. The only one true thing
that is missing in my life is my husband. But
(21:25):
it's every day it makes me sad that I know
my life would probably be a tenfold if I just
wasn't committing this one since and it's hard for me
to tell my daughter not to live in sin with
someone or to wait for marriage when mom's doing it.
How can I be an example to my children if
I'm not walking with the Lord and doing.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
What he says to do, understood? And I don't want
to be the big hand coming out of the clouds
waving its finger going that's not that's not my purpose.
My purpose is that there's reasons that people do things.
Sometimes they are good reasons, oftentimes they're bad reasons. But
there's reasons that make people make the decisions they make
(22:08):
and do the things they do. And Patrick obviously is
a man of strength. You know, he didn't bail and
he could have. And it's obviously not a question of love,
because again, he could be much easier for him not
to deal with any of this at all, and I'm
(22:28):
not sure anybody would blame him. So there's obviously love there.
There's a desire to do the right thing, because there
would have been easy opportunities for either of you to
do the wrong thing and just continue down that path.
So I see two people that love each other, that
want to do the right thing, that are holding back
on this one particular area of their life which really
(22:52):
could be even better. And yes, take the weight off
you of kind of partially doing it. Patrick, you realize
there are no there are no safety nets. There's never
going to be a.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
Second I realized that, and a lot of that maybe
was we went through a divorce into the monetary thing
and and it's all legal, you know now. It was
to me it was do you really need that piece
of paper?
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Well before God in that sense, in the big, big
sense of things, No, that is a piece of paper. However,
God does say that you were to live by the
laws of the land, and right now, if you guys,
you know you share children at all, it is more
efficient and a better way to go to have yourself tied. Plus,
(23:43):
I think it puts you in a different mental frame
of mind. Exits are fine, but if you have this
kind of eternal exit on your shoulder in this relationship,
then you're never You're always going to have that strange
body language if somebody who's trying to get up from
talking with you, that like one legs kind of part
(24:05):
in the other direction and one leg's kind of focused
on you, and are they listening to me? Do they care?
Do they not care? And that's kind of the state
that you're in right now, you're sort of there, and
I'm saying that it's really a game you're playing with yourself.
You are in it now and there would be a
mess to separate it now, So you might as well
(24:25):
do it right and engage each other and support the
good things that each other has done and the good
decisions each other has done, and be a part of
the process of not going back, just making that, you know,
the decision that both of you are in we just
(24:46):
will not go back to that place. And we are
going to protect each other by doing X, Y and
Z and covering ourselves because otherwise having sex and doing
all that and doing the play pretend kind of phony
marriage isn't helping anyone. Are you really, Patrick, going to
go run out and find yourself another woman? Oh? Okay, Jane,
you're going to go out and find yourself another man? No,
(25:08):
then what are you doing?
Speaker 5 (25:11):
I'm waiting?
Speaker 2 (25:13):
So Patrick, really it's in your court at this point.
And I just really wanted to hear it from you.
So often people will call and will go down a
path and it's not fair to the other person, and
I just really wanted to hear from you as to
where you stand. And I think it's a legitimate fear,
but it's a fear nonetheless, And there's a lot of fears.
(25:35):
Whether you're just getting married, whether you've been married for
twenty years, whether you've been married for thirty years. There's
always going to be fears. There's always going to be
what ifs, There's always going to be problems or the
thought of problems. And if you're going to go down
this path and live this way, then I suggest you
do the right thing and get married. And if you're
(25:57):
not going to take it seriously in that content text,
then then don't get to reap the benefits and separate
from one another in that context, and not because there
may be somebody that will engage with either of you
on a way and a level that would be more real.
(26:20):
I just think dancing around the obvious doesn't really help anybody,
and it doesn't protect you. If I thought there was
any protection here for you, Patrick, or something where I
thought you'd actually really gain from it is one thing,
but really it's semantics at this point. It's the world
(26:41):
sees it one way, and the problem is it doesn't
glorify God. And if that's even a concern of yours,
if it's not, then so be it. But if that's
a concern of yours, there's just another way to do this.
And it doesn't change anything in its current setting except
that it glorifies God.
Speaker 4 (27:02):
That that's what I need to do.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Well, I leave. That's that's all I'm focused on. Otherwise,
you're right, it's just a piece of paper. However, God
says live by the laws of the land. Those are
the laws of the land. And in doing that, this
is a tremendous witness. It already is. I mean, just
the character of the two of you already is an
amazing witness. Imagine if you just have that one part
(27:27):
of that ending.
Speaker 5 (27:28):
But our lives will be wonderful.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
That just shows the commitment that's all committed to each other,
committed to this goal, committed to that health. And if
that's what you guys, so choose. I would love to
hear back from you guys again. Okay, okay, thank you
both for being so brave and calling in, you know,
(27:53):
to hear truly here, when people want to do something right,
you can't help but appreciate that. And it doesn't mean
that it's going to come easy or anything like that.
It's just a matter of knowing that the character of
individuals to stay together, to work towards or work through
(28:14):
is just an amazing thing. And I asked that you
continue to pray for them, give them strength. Life can
be a very difficult thing, and I know some people
say that marriage is difficult. Marriage is not difficult. Being
selfless is difficult. Marriage is much easier you've got another person,
You've got a partner to help work through things. Two
(28:35):
heads are better than one. It's set up to be
easier when done right. It's when someone is selfish and
goes down a different path and brings ugliness into the
situation or both parties can quite often that it starts
to spin out of control. And you have to remember
(28:57):
that everything that you do from now on you're married
is for the other person, and the balance is that
they should be doing the same, and if they're doing
the same, then everybody gets taken care of. When you
start feeling when you see part of the relationships slip
into well, I'm just going to do this and take
care of myself, that's when the balance has been thrown out,
(29:17):
and that's when there should be great concern. Be good
to each other, be kind, to each other during this season,
and remember, more importantly than all the craziness that's going
on during this holiday season, remember these words, I Am
with you Always.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
KFI AM six forty on demand
You're listening to KFI A six forty on demand.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Kerrie, Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hi Lord, Hi, how you doing?
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I am well and you doing pretty good.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Here's my question. It's bothered me ever since I've learned
anything about Christianity. Why if God wants us all to
come to him, to come back to him, was the
blood sacrifice of his own son necessary? To whom were
you sacrificed? And couldn't he just wave a magic wand
(00:36):
and bring us all back? I don't understand the vicarious
atonement thing.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Yeah, it gets a little odd and it's certainly a
little bloody.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Wouldn't you say, yeah, yeah, I'm a parent, you know
I wouldn't do that to my own son for anything.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
No, but you you have to think of well, think
of it this way. There there's a movie. We even
talked about it on the website as well. But there's
a movie. And if you've an old analogy that's used
(01:12):
for people to understand, and it's pretty weighty. But let's
say you worked for a train company and it was
your job to flip this switch to make sure that
the bridge came down every day at the same time,
and This train was an incredibly popular train, and thousands
of people were on it every single day, men, women, children,
(01:36):
of all different kinds of walks of life. And one
day the train's coming and you looked for your son,
and you go running into the control room to go
and flip that switch to prepare for the bridge to
come down so this train could cross safely. At the
(02:00):
last moment, you look up and you see that your
son has ran off and is now in the gears
playing around of this bridge. And you either flip the
switch that would most certainly take the life of your child,
(02:21):
or leave it open, which would most certainly take the
life of every man, woman, and child on that train.
As a human, your desire is going to save your
child alone. Probably you may say, well, you know what, hey,
my child's more important. However, the repercussions of that aren't done.
(02:45):
Just at that moment. The child would now know forever
and ever that the weight and the blood of all
those people were on him. There are other problems that
could come when it comes to this ultimate sacrifice. You
have throughout Scripture Leviticus seventeen eleven fourteen the concept of
(03:11):
life being blood. That blood really is what is considered
the life stream of every living human, and in this
also sin is a bound. Genesis two talks about how
Adam and Eve and the bloodline gets tainted. So in
(03:34):
this particular case, the only way to pay for it
is blood sacrifice, because that is the payment, that is
the method of payment. However, the sacrificial lambs and the
spotless lambs and all this it was only temporary, always
(03:55):
only temporary, like writing checks. The only true way to
do it was to have someone sinless make the payment
for all, once and for all, a true payment.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
I understand that. It just seems to me the question
I have is the payment to whom? And if that
whom is God, couldn't he just make it happen without that?
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Well, that's the human thing. That's the human thing, because
the humans are always looking for the way out? What's
the angle? Where's the loophole? God doesn't God does things
righteously solely. Now, if you'll bear through another analogy, if
you could imagine, let's say a judge. Now you're a judge. Boy,
you have a lot of jobs today. So now you're
a judge, and you put on that robe and you're
(04:47):
sitting there and on the docket. You look and it's
your son again that comes in and has caused a
considerable amount of damage tens of thousands of dollars. As
a judge, you have to do the full extent of
the law because that is the righteous thing to do.
(05:08):
But as a father, there's nothing wrong with you taking
that robe off, or a mother in this case, taking
that robe off, going down off of the bench and
paying that for him. But you couldn't just waive it
because that would be unrighteous. It would be unjust to
just wave it. So what you have here is God
(05:33):
sticking to the letter of the law and the righteousness
of that law, but also being so loving that he
makes the payment himself.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
So it's really the pillars of justice and mercies.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Absolutely, It's just not the way humans deal with it,
because humans are always looking for the loophole. Well, isn't
there a way God could know? Because that magic wand
that you talk about, if God waived that magic wand,
all it would be eracing? Is justice? Do you really
want justice erased?
Speaker 1 (06:08):
I understand.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
So when years ago, when the horrible happenings of Katrina
took place, we got calls, We got people calling and say,
how could you let something like this happen? Now, hurricanes
are caused by water, hot air, cold air, So which
would you have me remove? No water, no hot air,
(06:32):
no cold air. You must understand that really, even though
there are bad things that take place on this planet,
they weren't originally set out that way. But through you know,
decisions and pollution and all kinds of things, things get muted.
And that's kind of the way the bloodline was going.
But ultimately, all these things have a purpose, and justice
(06:54):
has a purpose. And you can't just sidestep justice because
it's inconvenient. That's that then it without justice. Trust me,
there'll be plenty more inconvenience that are that are larger.
And so this concept of God sidestepping the rules or
not participate, or saying well, I'll just make wave my
magic wand and it won't matter this time, would just
(07:16):
change the concept of justice and then everybody's in the doghouse.
This way is a beautiful bridge that is perfection to
get back into the arms of God, set forth by
(07:38):
God and yes, paid for by God as well. Sequoia,
welcome to the Jesus Christ Show. Hi, I am well, Sequoia,
How how are you?
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Oh, I'm good. Do you remember me from two years ago?
Speaker 2 (08:00):
How can you forget a name like Sequoia?
Speaker 4 (08:03):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Okay, I was I was just checking and you remember.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
I always ask if your if your parents know that
you're calling?
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
And do they know that you're calling?
Speaker 3 (08:13):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Excellent? Okay, How can I help you?
Speaker 3 (08:17):
I had a question about spiritual world because I've been here,
I've been hearing a lot of stories that spirit some
spirits are afraid of people. So I was I was
gonna ask, like, do do spirits do they like? Do
(08:41):
they do they act like humans? Like like say, if
some someone saw ghosts, like they make a big fuss
about it, like ohs and all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Gotcha? Well, it depends what you mean by spirit because, uh,
a lot of a lot of times there shows that
I don't recommend. There's a lot of these paranormal shows
and things like that on television and where they go
or ghost hunters and things like that where they're going
to look for ghosts this program, this show here. We
(09:14):
don't believe that there's ghosts. We don't believe that there
is disembodied humans walking the earth. And so when we
talk about spirits, on this show, we're talking about angels,
and you have two classifications basically of angels, and you
have those that are elect or still in heaven with
the Father, and then you have those that have parted
(09:35):
and broke their union with God and now are yeah,
fallen angels exactly, and they're called demons. So those are
the two classes. So when we talk about spirits on
this program, that's what we're talking about. We're not talking
about ghosts. And when you hear terms like the holy
ghost and things like that, or someone gave up the
(09:56):
ghost or things like that, that's usually talking about the spirit,
but not like on television when they're talking about ghosts,
are actually human beings that have died and then don't
have their bodies anymore and they're walking around. So we
don't believe on this program that those exist. We don't
believe in those types of ghosts. So if you're talking
about are there spirits like angels that are afraid of humans, No,
(10:20):
they're respectful of humans because humans are God's creation and
although angels are God's creation as well, there is a
special relationship between God and man, and angels respect that.
Now demons don't respect that. The same, but still respect
the power of God. So they would be afraid of
(10:42):
a Christian absolutely, because a Christian has the power of
God in their heart and therefore can call upon the
angels to defend them, the good angels. So in that sense,
they might be afraid.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Yeah, because I've been hearing a bunch of these a
bunch of these radio shows that talk about like spirits
that like that haven't got their wings that yet, like
the angels that haven't got their wings yet. They're like
scared of humans that like they go, oh, it's a
(11:17):
ghost and all.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
That stuff like Scooby Doo or something. Yeah, yeah, that's
that's not what we believe. And and there's a lot
of shows out there believe it or not. Not Everything
on radio should be received as truth.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
And yeah, because I I really don't think that angel
I don't really think that angels would go, oh, it's
a ghost, because like, angels and humans are basically the
same thing, except like the angels, they have one more
part that we don't have yet. And what's that that's
(11:57):
that's like the smart.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
And the well, it's interesting. There are definitely similarities between
humans and angels, but we are very different. The set
apart as far as dealing with my humanity is very
different than an angel, and so your humanity is very different,
but there are similar similarities. Some people say that's because
of the intellect, will and emotion is what separates them.
(12:22):
But unfortunately we run out of time, Sequoia. But it's
always so nice to talk to you. Will you call
again sometime?
Speaker 3 (12:29):
Yes, I'll call, like how we're supposed to six months
after Yeah, there you.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Go, or you could call us you've obviously been prepped well,
or during our Christmas Eve show combing up. You're absolutely
welcome to call there. And I'd love to hear from
you again. How precious I now some of you because
you listen at different times. You listen to the show
(12:57):
at different times. Sometimes you'll hear more of the first hour,
or the second hour, more the third hour, whatever it
might be that you might miss something. So I want
to talk to Jane and her hundred her husband Patrick
in just a moment. But before I do that, I
want so you understand where this came from. That Jane
called me and we spoke briefly, but we came up
(13:21):
against the clock and I thought that there was a
better solution for this, so give us a listen real
quick before we bring Jane back on. Jane, Welcome to
Jesus Christ show my name. Hi, you've been so patient.
We have just a couple of moments. How can I
help you?
Speaker 5 (13:36):
My husband and I are divorced nine years but yet
we still lived together. Am I committing a sin?
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Why are you guys living together?
Speaker 5 (13:46):
Because nine years ago our daughter was still in high
school and we didn't want to make her choose, so
we decided to be adults and raise her together. Okay,
but now she's twenty one and we're still living together.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Well, you guys, uh don't have physical relations or anything,
do you?
Speaker 5 (14:02):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Oh you do? Why?
Speaker 5 (14:05):
Because we love one another?
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Well, then why aren't you married?
Speaker 5 (14:09):
Why did why not get married? I don't know, you'd
have to ask him.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
I think, well, why did you guys get a divorce?
Speaker 5 (14:15):
Why? Because I thought it was the same thing to
do while in the midst of my addictions, which it wasn't,
but at the time I thought it was okay.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
So under duress and you know, being a little confused
and where you were, you made some bad decisions, A
lot of bad decisions. Make it right.
Speaker 5 (14:31):
I've been trying. I've been an example. I pray every
day to the Lord to soften his heart.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
And what does your husband say, what's his reason for
not doing it?
Speaker 5 (14:40):
He's afraid that I'll just do it again and leave him.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
M hm. So that's where we left it. Jane you there, yes, okay?
And uh, Patrick you there, I'm here. Excellent. I want
to thank both of you for being so bold and
brave as we say on the program to call in together.
And Patrick, you got to hear a little bit about
(15:07):
what Jane and I spoke about last week, and a
lot of questions arise and life, you know, life has
sharp edges, and you know, nooks and crannies and not
everything is so perfectly laid out. And I know that
some people on their high horses point out things and say, well,
you should have done this, and you should have done that.
That's not the concern of this program. The concern of
(15:29):
this program is really trying to look at the decisions
that are made in light of scripture and see what
the best and most efficient and the most righteous thing
to do in a given situation. And people of faith
often wrestle with their own decisions as everyone else does,
and that's okay. But here you have a long relationship
(15:53):
of marriage and there's some problems. Jane. You went through addiction. Correct,
kind of addiction?
Speaker 5 (16:00):
Was that alcohol and drugs?
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Okay? And what kind of drugs?
Speaker 5 (16:07):
Speak?
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Uh? Huh and uh? And this must have been incredibly
difficult on you, Patrick, correct. Yes, And it's it's scary
to see somebody who you know, who's in control to
be out of control, and especially if there's nothing you
can do for them. But uh, and I can understand
(16:34):
that give makes you kind of gunshy with with dealing
with Jane, But why and staying together for the kids.
But if you're afraid of of what might happen or
the unknown, you wouldn't want that around a child, even
a growing child. So why did you guys decide to
stay together at all?
Speaker 4 (16:55):
She went through reab and and we had all the
kids at home and she had gottenfgether.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Okay, So she's so And how long has she had
her life together?
Speaker 4 (17:12):
Over nine years?
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Okay?
Speaker 5 (17:15):
You know.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
And if you're still together and you're still physical and
having those relations and truly having a relationship, why not
just get married and make things right again and consider
it a detour.
Speaker 4 (17:29):
I kind of feel like I'm safer, like we've already
done that so that, you know, maybe it's a safety
and mechanism for my heart, but it.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Really isn't, because ultimately you're no one looks back at
the piece of paper and says, Wow, that piece of
paper really did it. It's all about the heart issues anyways.
It's about the physicality of it. It's about giving yourself
to her and her giving herself to you, and all
of those things are the real part of it. The
other is the judicial part of it. That's the courts
(18:02):
and the like, the civil aspect. That's how a community works.
They say, we want to know who are married people are,
and you go through a ceremony and we stamp it
and that makes it legal. But really that's not what
gives you the emotional ties. The emotional ties comes from
being together, going through thick and thin, going through the
(18:22):
ups and downs, and barreling through it. Right. Isn't that
what makes a marriage a marriage, not just the piece
of paper. Yes, and you both are experiencing that now
without the piece of paper, yes, yes, yeah, So there's
no protection there at all. Patrick, I mean, if anything,
(18:44):
it's it's a foolish place for you to be in
your head to think that there is a safety net there.
There isn't and there isn't a safety net in any marriage,
none whatsoever. And even if these nine years had been
you know, peaches and cream, they haven't been. But even
(19:05):
if they were, there is no safety net. So I'm
I'm not sure. I mean, I understand that the gun
shy aspect of things when there's been something traumatic and
you know, you you watch. Was there was there any
usage prior to getting together Patrick.
Speaker 5 (19:25):
When we were eighteen and nineteen?
Speaker 4 (19:27):
Okay, so this is the recreational use by both of us.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Okay, when we were younger.
Speaker 5 (19:36):
Yeah, with Niche for thirty five years.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
And did did Patrick? Did you just get bored with
the concept of drinking and drugs and Jane got more interested? Yes?
And Jane, why do you think that that drugs and
alcohol became so interesting to you?
Speaker 5 (19:58):
I think it was just a way to escape out
of my head. I didn't have a bad childhood. I
had a great marriage. I had a man that loved me.
I don't I have nine years, never.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Been able to put.
Speaker 5 (20:14):
The hammer on the nail to know exactly why I
did it, but it just overtook me.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
What's going on in your head that you wanted to
get away from it?
Speaker 5 (20:25):
I wish I knew I had a wonderful life. I
think I just it just became easier to be outside
of myself.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Okay, I'm the Lord, and that has changed your usage,
I'm assumed.
Speaker 5 (20:42):
No, at first, it took me, even after finding him
and accepting him as my Lord and savior, it still
took me another rehab to really truly get on my
knees and bring him into my life.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Nothing wrong with that, nothing wrong with that at all.
But you're at a place stability now.
Speaker 5 (21:01):
Yes, Yes, I have a job, I have money in
the bank, I have a home, I have my family
all back, I have everything back in my life. My
life is so blessed. I don't even know why. I
know the Lord loves me, but I don't know why
he loves me this much. The only one true thing
that is missing in my life is my husband. But
(21:25):
it's every day it makes me sad that I know
my life would probably be a tenfold if I just
wasn't committing this one since and it's hard for me
to tell my daughter not to live in sin with
someone or to wait for marriage when mom's doing it.
How can I be an example to my children if
I'm not walking with the Lord and doing.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
What he says to do, understood? And I don't want
to be the big hand coming out of the clouds
waving its finger going that's not that's not my purpose.
My purpose is that there's reasons that people do things.
Sometimes they are good reasons, oftentimes they're bad reasons. But
there's reasons that make people make the decisions they make
(22:08):
and do the things they do. And Patrick obviously is
a man of strength. You know, he didn't bail and
he could have. And it's obviously not a question of love,
because again, he could be much easier for him not
to deal with any of this at all, and I'm
(22:28):
not sure anybody would blame him. So there's obviously love there.
There's a desire to do the right thing, because there
would have been easy opportunities for either of you to
do the wrong thing and just continue down that path.
So I see two people that love each other, that
want to do the right thing, that are holding back
on this one particular area of their life which really
(22:52):
could be even better. And yes, take the weight off
you of kind of partially doing it. Patrick, you realize
there are no there are no safety nets. There's never
going to be a.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
Second I realized that, and a lot of that maybe
was we went through a divorce into the monetary thing
and and it's all legal, you know now. It was
to me it was do you really need that piece
of paper?
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Well before God in that sense, in the big, big
sense of things, No, that is a piece of paper. However,
God does say that you were to live by the
laws of the land, and right now, if you guys,
you know you share children at all, it is more
efficient and a better way to go to have yourself tied. Plus,
(23:43):
I think it puts you in a different mental frame
of mind. Exits are fine, but if you have this
kind of eternal exit on your shoulder in this relationship,
then you're never You're always going to have that strange
body language if somebody who's trying to get up from
talking with you, that like one legs kind of part
(24:05):
in the other direction and one leg's kind of focused
on you, and are they listening to me? Do they care?
Do they not care? And that's kind of the state
that you're in right now, you're sort of there, and
I'm saying that it's really a game you're playing with yourself.
You are in it now and there would be a
mess to separate it now, So you might as well
(24:25):
do it right and engage each other and support the
good things that each other has done and the good
decisions each other has done, and be a part of
the process of not going back, just making that, you know,
the decision that both of you are in we just
(24:46):
will not go back to that place. And we are
going to protect each other by doing X, Y and
Z and covering ourselves because otherwise having sex and doing
all that and doing the play pretend kind of phony
marriage isn't helping anyone. Are you really, Patrick, going to
go run out and find yourself another woman? Oh? Okay, Jane,
you're going to go out and find yourself another man? No,
(25:08):
then what are you doing?
Speaker 5 (25:11):
I'm waiting?
Speaker 2 (25:13):
So Patrick, really it's in your court at this point.
And I just really wanted to hear it from you.
So often people will call and will go down a
path and it's not fair to the other person, and
I just really wanted to hear from you as to
where you stand. And I think it's a legitimate fear,
but it's a fear nonetheless, And there's a lot of fears.
(25:35):
Whether you're just getting married, whether you've been married for
twenty years, whether you've been married for thirty years. There's
always going to be fears. There's always going to be
what ifs, There's always going to be problems or the
thought of problems. And if you're going to go down
this path and live this way, then I suggest you
do the right thing and get married. And if you're
(25:57):
not going to take it seriously in that content text,
then then don't get to reap the benefits and separate
from one another in that context, and not because there
may be somebody that will engage with either of you
on a way and a level that would be more real.
(26:20):
I just think dancing around the obvious doesn't really help anybody,
and it doesn't protect you. If I thought there was
any protection here for you, Patrick, or something where I
thought you'd actually really gain from it is one thing,
but really it's semantics at this point. It's the world
(26:41):
sees it one way, and the problem is it doesn't
glorify God. And if that's even a concern of yours,
if it's not, then so be it. But if that's
a concern of yours, there's just another way to do this.
And it doesn't change anything in its current setting except
that it glorifies God.
Speaker 4 (27:02):
That that's what I need to do.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Well, I leave. That's that's all I'm focused on. Otherwise,
you're right, it's just a piece of paper. However, God
says live by the laws of the land. Those are
the laws of the land. And in doing that, this
is a tremendous witness. It already is. I mean, just
the character of the two of you already is an
amazing witness. Imagine if you just have that one part
(27:27):
of that ending.
Speaker 5 (27:28):
But our lives will be wonderful.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
That just shows the commitment that's all committed to each other,
committed to this goal, committed to that health. And if
that's what you guys, so choose. I would love to
hear back from you guys again. Okay, okay, thank you
both for being so brave and calling in, you know,
(27:53):
to hear truly here, when people want to do something right,
you can't help but appreciate that. And it doesn't mean
that it's going to come easy or anything like that.
It's just a matter of knowing that the character of
individuals to stay together, to work towards or work through
(28:14):
is just an amazing thing. And I asked that you
continue to pray for them, give them strength. Life can
be a very difficult thing, and I know some people
say that marriage is difficult. Marriage is not difficult. Being
selfless is difficult. Marriage is much easier you've got another person,
You've got a partner to help work through things. Two
(28:35):
heads are better than one. It's set up to be
easier when done right. It's when someone is selfish and
goes down a different path and brings ugliness into the
situation or both parties can quite often that it starts
to spin out of control. And you have to remember
(28:57):
that everything that you do from now on you're married
is for the other person, and the balance is that
they should be doing the same, and if they're doing
the same, then everybody gets taken care of. When you
start feeling when you see part of the relationships slip
into well, I'm just going to do this and take
care of myself, that's when the balance has been thrown out,
(29:17):
and that's when there should be great concern. Be good
to each other, be kind, to each other during this season,
and remember, more importantly than all the craziness that's going
on during this holiday season, remember these words, I Am
with you Always.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
KFI AM six forty on demand
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