December 8, 2024 • 27 mins
The Sinners Prayer
Will There be Family Missing in Heaven
The World Feels Like Its Getting Worse
Will There be Family Missing in Heaven
The World Feels Like Its Getting Worse
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to KFI AM six forty on demand. Gwyneth,
Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Yes, thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
How can I help you?
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I have a son that's I tried to call in
at a cell phone, couldn't get through, so he asked
me to call. What he wants to know is where
did a sinner's prayer of repentance come from? Oh boy,
of saying Jesus come into my life. Yeah, I've told
him and that it's like the Trinity and rapture. It's there,
but not in those words, but.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Well sort of but different conceptually. There's there's a lot
of theological argumentation against it as well. It's gone, it's
gone through many forms. It's been around for a long time,
but it doesn't really date back to Scripture. It's kind
of a tool that's been modified many times by different
theologians and preachers to motivate people and to activate them
(00:54):
to receive God into their lives. Okay, now, the scripture
points out that that need to be done for forgiveness
of sins and for having this relationship with God. And
you kind of put them all together because you have well,
first and foremost repent repent, the big fancy word that
(01:16):
just means to turn away from truly change your mind.
Talks about being immersed. And now people will argue whether
you need to be baptized to be saved. Some will
say that it's a work and therefore it's not necessary,
but does play a part in the outward showing of
the inward goal, which is salvation, So it is a
(01:38):
part of it. And the forgiveness of sins talks about
in Acts two thirty eight about that, and about you
need that in order to enjoy relationship with Christ and
be a part of his spiritual body. So there's all
these things that really, over and over, the one thing
(02:00):
that stands out above anything else is the term believe.
You have to believe. Now, part of believing is confessing.
Part of confessing is saying it out loud so that
others here, so that you're accountable for what you're saying
and what you're going to be doing. And to live
the gospel, to live and obey the things of the gospel.
(02:23):
So that's really what salvation is about. And what happened
is people have tried over the years to encapsulate it,
to make it simple. They've kind of tried to make
these tools to so that somebody just say, well, if
I did this, then I'm saved. And it's really even
when we use the term the sinner's prayer on the show,
(02:46):
I don't mean the sinner's prayer that most people think.
I mean the concept of actualizing your desire to be
with God and making it happen by believing and repenting
and applying and obeying the words of Scripture in your life.
But the Lord's prayer that's kind of has kind of
(03:09):
become this prayer or what they call hot seat salvation
where people, you know, they do the alter calls and
people are kind of put on the hot seat and
they feel like, wow, maybe I've got to do this. Well.
Sometimes people react to that, and sometimes they don't. Also,
sometimes people react to that emotionally and then they fall
away later because it's never it's never been a part
(03:32):
of their life, truly. Luke sixty six says, and why
do you call me lord, Lord? And do not the
things that I say?
Speaker 3 (03:44):
So?
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Actually participating and obeying the things of God are the
most important. So obedience important, belief important, turning away, repenting,
turning away from those things that are not the will
of God, to the things that are will of God.
That's what's important. The prayer, the concept of the prayer
(04:07):
has a hang up in two basic places. Some say, well,
God isn't listening to the prayers of the unsaved, so
how do you get bypassed that? And there's those that
would argue, well, this is a prayer for salvation, therefore
God would hear it. All these things go back and forth.
So if you just skin off all the theological mumbo jumbo,
(04:28):
really it comes down to believing, truly, believing in your heart,
not just with your mouth, and applying it to your
life by being obedient to the word of God, specifically
obedient to the gospels and the things that are taught,
and repenting and turning away from those things, and baptized,
being baptized not for salvation, but as part of that salvation.
(04:52):
Meaning your wedding rings are not your marriage, they're a
sign of that marriage. So baptism is a sign of
that which you believe in, that which you've applied to
your life. But the sinner's prayer it's not in scripture,
and it's not even loose you could are you Well, well,
(05:12):
you're supposed to do this, this, that, and then and
we put it into a nice package where you can
do all that. But really the sinner's prayer is not
necessary in that context. What is necessary is believing, obedience, repentance,
and finally baptism. That's what's important. The sinner's prayer. People
get caught up in that and it becomes kind of
a political thing and this is the way we do it,
(05:34):
and searching for the right words to motivate, and then
it becomes like a marketing or sales tool, and it
can become kind of strange. But Scripture doesn't talk about
any prayer like that. There is no verse you're going
to find that it talks about that sinner's prayer. It's
more about conceptually, these are the things that need to
(05:56):
be done, and people will call on God. But some
sort of formulaic prayer something like that, it's not in there.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Wonderful.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
I hope that that helps. I know it's a lot
of information, but it's one of those topics, Gwyneth, that
people don't often ask. I'm very very proud that you asked,
because it's probably, oh gosh, one of a handful of
times small handful of times that it's even been approached.
Now we've prayed the Sinner's prayer once or twice on
(06:28):
the program with somebody who requested. But again, because of
its kind of bite sized usage, it became practical for
the way we do the program, and it's not something
we normally do to begin with. But so it's not
that it's evil or bad. And I know that you
can find all kinds of information where people say, oh,
(06:50):
this is horrible, and some attribute it to being proliferated
by Billy Graham. Yet it precedes Billy Graham quite a bit,
with all kinds of different people changing it a little
bit and saying, well, here's the four spiritual laws and
if you adhere to these, and really those things aren't
necessarily in Scripture chapter and verse where you're going to
(07:12):
be able to go to them. But conceptually, yes, the
things that are in there that are important to understand
don't have to come via a sinner's prayer. They have
to come through a pure and receiving heart that is obedient,
that desires to have God in their life, that rejects
(07:32):
the old ways, repents and turns towards those things which
are God given, which are God willed that truly to
be in that mindset of receiving God's will.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
To believe.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Over and over, that term is used in scripture to believe.
And I know that sounds like some corny movie where
it's like all you have to do is believe, but
really that act of of belief becomes that hardcore act
of faith to believe something, especially these days when you
are faced with all kinds of bizarre opposition. There's so
(08:10):
much garbage on the Internet alone that really is just
it's just garbage that is repackaged and trying to be
sold as truth that it's hard to even get to
that point of belief. And that's a huge act in
itself to participate. So does that mean that if you
(08:31):
said the Sinner's prayer years ago or today or anything
like that, that you're not a Christian. No, that's not
my point. The point is is that there is not
some spiritual tie to the sinner's prayer, and there's not
a place in scripture that you're going to find well,
this is the sinner's prayer and this is what needs
to be done for salvation. It was kind of a
(08:52):
one stop shop method to get people to understand what
needed to be done and to focus them. But I
think that if you believe, you first believe, and you
get into scripture and you really read, you participate, and
you show the world, and you confess with your mouth,
and you show the world in your with your actions.
You confess with your actions with your mouth, and you
(09:15):
were baptized and all those things are a part of
that experience. It's just none of those works are something
that you're doing, a work in what you're doing, and
then you're being rewarded for That's not what it is.
It is holy and solely a free gift. Warren, Welcome
(09:37):
to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Hi, Good morning, Jesus. Hi there Hi. Just just a
question for you, and as I'm starting to think about
having more and more every day, you know, as this
place of course, the unimaginable beauty and love and all
of those things that we were taught over the years
about it. But the question I have is, and it
(10:02):
relates to just a brief story. I have a had
a brother who passed away a number of years ago
in prison and for all intents and purposes, was just
not a not a good person. Heard a lot of
people spent more than half of his life in prison,
died in prison, and as I'd like to think about,
(10:23):
heaven again is having all these thoughts And obviously, like
I said, with my brother not being a good person
at all, he was still my brother and still loved
by me and the entire family. And when that day comes,
and hopefully as a family we're all in that special
place together understanding the possibility that, you know, let's face it,
(10:45):
he he just won't be there. And if heaven is
a place without regrets, without sorrows, and and and all
of these things, how can you not feel the regret?
How can you not feel sorry? And how can you
go on, you know, throughout eternity with this void, that
(11:07):
this specific loved one is not there and won't be
there because of the way he lived his life, which,
like I said, he lived like an animal and he
died like an animal. But that was our brother, that
was my parent son, and we loved him. Sure, But
how do you cope with that?
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Well, yeah, this is a great question, and we're since
we're up against the clock, I'm going to ask you
to hold on. I know you've been very patient, but
I want to talk to you some more about this
and give you time rather than just throwing out a
ten second answer to you. So can you hold on? Yes, Yeah,
just hanging tight and when we come back, I'll explain
the difference and what really will be going on in
heaven and why it's so hard for humans to grasp
(11:48):
that here talking with Warren. Warren, thanks for holding on.
Thank you. You say that your brother was in jail.
Not a good guy died in jail. Your question really
goes to the heart of a lot of people's fears,
(12:09):
and that's heaven. And what are you going to do
in heaven when there's going to be people missing, people
that you loved, and how do you reconcile that with
a place like heaven? Is that really the the nut
in the shell?
Speaker 2 (12:21):
There? It is?
Speaker 3 (12:23):
It is, and it's so painful because you know, my
parents did a great job raising my other siblings. He's
just you know, the one that got away, and yeah,
caused a lot of pain with them because they did
the best that they could with all of us. You
know him him aside, but don't know what happened to him,
(12:46):
the bad seed. I guess whatever you want to say,
but you know, he really caused them a lot of grief.
They stood by him, and as now, they're both in
their eighties, and you know, they're not going to be here,
you know, much longer, longer. They are Christians, and they
have their beliefs that they'll be in that special place,
(13:07):
and I have no doubt about it, as well as
myself and my other siblings. But you know, I like
to think of heaven as this beautiful, wonderful place. When
I get there one day, I'll meet the grandparents that
you know, died long before I was born, and we'll
all be together and we'll all be happy. But there's
this one person that is not going to be there.
(13:28):
If it was anyone other than my brother, if it
was a neighbor or something like that, I would say, well,
I know where this person is, you know, no doubt
about it. They're burning in hell because of the life
that they lived and the pain and suffering that they
caused on others. But because it is my brother, I'd
like to believe that there's some hope that God had
a plan for him, as hard as that is to imagine,
(13:50):
because of, like I said, the pain and suffering that
he caused on others. I'm sure God wouldn't want that
on anyone, But you know, how do you cope with that?
If Heaven's this place where there's no sorrow, no grief,
how do you not feel that?
Speaker 1 (14:05):
And this is this is really about applying very human
traits and beliefs and you know, feelings to Heaven. And
in Revelation twenty one, it says that he will, speaking
of God, he will wipe every tear from their eyes.
There will be no more death or mourning or crying
(14:27):
or pain, for the old order of things has passed away. Now,
the old order of things passing away is really an
important part of that, just as much as the wiping
of the tears and so on. Years ago, someone called up,
I don't know if they were trying to stump me
or something, called up and said I've got a riddle
for you. And I said okay. And the riddle was,
where are the two places where there are no hope?
(14:49):
And I replied quickly that Heaven and Hell? Hell there
is no hope because there is no there's nothing that
will satiate, there's nothing that will quench your thirst. And
it is the full absence of hope is what hell is.
And heaven because there's no need for it. It is
(15:11):
the fulfillment of hope. So you've got this place that's unique,
it's you can't compare it to any other experience. But
what I do want to do is apply some understandings
that you have here on earth. One, you can't know
where your brother is. You can guess, make a very
(15:31):
good educated guess based on the life he led and
who he was, But no one's there in those moments
of death. For one, and for two, a moment to
God is longer because God is outside of time. So
the things that to you might be the blink of
an eye can be a lifetime to God to experience
(15:57):
or extract that moment needed for somebody to fully see
and understand. Because heaven is not about ignorance. Getting to
heaven or Hell is not about ignorance. It's about acceptance
or rejection. So it's not while they didn't I didn't know,
I didn't know what was really like that, and gosh,
now I'm missing out. It won't be like that is
people are saying, no, I don't want to spend time
(16:19):
with you here on earth. I don't want to spend
time with you in heaven. Heaven is not just a bigger, better,
prettier in your case, Tampa, Florida. It's not just home
like that. It's beyond that, and it supersedes and transcends
all of those understandings. It's not just a homecoming between
you and your family. It has nothing to do with that.
(16:41):
What it is is a homecoming between you and your
maker and them and their maker. And in that case,
you're all equal. You're not just family members to one another,
you're family members to the whole. Yes, So imagine this
when you see those pictures, paintings, whatever, that are captured
(17:01):
moments captured in time from wartime of people coming home,
and some of them are so iconographic that they just
you can see them right now, the sailor in the
embrace with his girl and they're holding each other. Now,
this is after wartime and the experience of heinous things.
(17:24):
Now that moment will subside, and through the realities of life,
the loss and the things that they saw will slowly
seep in. But in that moment, that pure moment of
wrapping yourself around another human being that you've loved and
missed and you're happy to see in a way that
(17:44):
you can't explain to people that have been separated for
years by strange circumstances. A mother and child who have
been separated via certain circumstances, when you see them come together,
there is no one else in that room. There is
nothing else in existence except that moment of being reunited.
(18:05):
That is heaven. It's that moment. It's not what comes after,
it's not any of that. It's that moment of being
reunited with the Maker. And when you are in the
presence of God and you are wrapped in his glory,
there is nothing, no family member, nothing that compares to
(18:27):
that moment. And I think that it is so outside
of comprehension and the day to day experiences that you
or anybody else on this planet has, that it's hard
to really understand what it's like to be captured in
that moment for eternity, that homecoming moment, that embrace, that
where the tears are so intense and there is nothing
(18:49):
else in the world. You can't you don't hear sounds,
you don't smell anything. You're just locked in that moment
of coming home.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
And it is very difficult. Well, because we were at
family gatherings. Now he's been. Uh he's been gone now
for you know, over eight years. And you know, at
family gatherings, Thanksgiving, you know, Christmas, we all get around,
we say a prayer and you know one of the
things we of course we do, is we pray for him.
And you know, just wondering if at that point, you know,
(19:21):
is it is it is it doing any good? You
know to do that?
Speaker 2 (19:25):
What?
Speaker 1 (19:25):
What?
Speaker 3 (19:25):
Because like I said, uh, he was a bad guy,
had really no redeemable qualities. That he was older than me.
But I just remember him as as we were growing up,
as as always in jail, always uh, causing difficulties. But
you know, we we pray for him as we say, okay,
we're gonna he's not here, We're going to stay a
prayer for him as a family. And you know, uh what,
(19:49):
what is there any good in that? I mean, are
those are those prayers being heard? And if so, is
it is it causing him in the afterlife?
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (19:57):
You know, any any comforts?
Speaker 1 (19:59):
You know, things like nothing, there's nothing like that concept
of reaching into the afterlife. Nothing. Your prayers go to God.
And as far as comfort, the only comfort in the
afterlife is that it's a decision that's made holdheartedly with
all the information you could possibly have, and the decision
(20:20):
to be away from God or to be absent from
God is the equivalent of him being in jail. I mean,
he rejected the ways of the world and society and
thought it was better to be locked up in jail. Ultimately,
even though they don't want to get caught, con still
know that that is a huge possibility and likelihood that
(20:41):
they will at some point end up in jail, and
that was still a better plan than being in the
world the way everyone else was. He made that choice.
So likewise, it's that way with heaven and hell that
it's people who say, I just don't want God, I
don't want to be a part of it. I don't
want to be account. I want to live the way
(21:01):
I want to live, and I want to do what
I want to do. And if that means being away
from God for eternity after this life, so be it.
And so they are. Now that is hell. From being
absent from the salvation power of God is hell. Now
as far as whether someone can be saved after all
that ugliness, all I have to say is that one
(21:22):
drop of my blood on that cross supersedes anything that
can be done by any man or woman. So these
people that say, oh, the such an ugly person, I
get that, and by human standards understood. But the death
(21:44):
on the cross, the death of perfection on the cross,
the blood that was shed on that cross, and the
resurrection to stamp that paid in full, supersedes anything that
can be done by man, no matter how heinous. The
thing is that when someone goes down that path, it's
(22:06):
usually down that path of rejection of God's will to
begin with. They don't want to do things right, they
don't want to the laws of man, as scripture says,
have to be obeyed. So that's that's essentially the will
of God. So if you're rejecting those, and you're continually
(22:26):
rejecting truth and the will of God, then most likely
you're going to continue to reject that. But you don't know.
All you need to know is that as harsh as
this sounds, people don't grasp Heaven. You won't care, it
won't matter, it doesn't matter, And when you're there in
(22:49):
the presence of God, it's going to be about the
reunion between you and God. That's it for eternity and
that moment that's same type of moment where you see
two people just come together and embrace one another. It's
and this is by no means a desire to be
(23:11):
crass or vulgar, but I want you to think about
one of the most intense feelings that a human can
feel is an orgasm. Can you imagine that a husband
and wife coming to climax at the same time thinking
about their taxes. It's not gonna happen. There is nothing
you are going to think about in that moment, and
there's Theologically there are many that say that that is
(23:32):
a tiny morsel of understanding of heaven in the physical realm.
So and I know people will pollute that statement, but
what I'm trying to get across is that there are
times on this earth when you are so euphoric and
so enraptured that you aren't thinking about anything else but
(23:54):
being in that moment. And those are tastes. Those are
tastes of the joy and the intensity of eternity that
you'll experience. You won't be thinking about anything else. There
won't be that space, there won't be sadness, there won't
be any of those things, because you will be in
the moment without beginning middle or end in that moment
(24:16):
with God for eternity, and it's that moment of being
reunited with the Maker, coming home in a way like
you've never come home before. And so I think that
it's healthy and normal to be thinking these thoughts. But ultimately, Warren,
it comes down to this, you just won't care. Maria,
(24:41):
Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Hi, Jesus Christ.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Hi Maria.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
I have a question. I know things out in the
world swift among us, and so is Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
And I know the world seems like it's well to me.
It seems like it's getting the Little Word in a
lot of ways. And I was kind of wondering.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
I'm a Christian. I believe in Jesus Christ with all
my heart, Okay at it, and I've just been so
a little scared.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
How is it that.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Jesus doesn't let sane hurt us in this world?
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Right?
Speaker 3 (25:17):
He protects us? We believe in him.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Well, you're not protected against all things in that way,
because there are things that there are adversity and things
in life that are good for you, that are healthy
and part of the process. Now, Scripture doesn't say that
nothing's going to happen to you in this sense that
you're never going to have a problem. But it does
(25:41):
say specifically in Romans eight twenty eight, and I think
this is a good verse for you, says we know
that all things work together for good to those who
love God. So it's not about only good things happening
to you. It's that all will work out for the good,
and that not to be looking for the devil under
(26:02):
every stone. The fact is that it says in scripture,
greater is He that is in me than he that
is in the world. So God is inside you. Greater
is the God that is inside you than the devil
that is roaming this earth. And you should trust that
and know that there's power in that. However, don't assume
(26:24):
that there's never going to be anything bad happening to you.
The Good Book says that it rains on the just
and the unjust alike. So there's going to be good
and bad days. But the most important part of that
is knowing that God will turn all things around for
his glory and for good to those who believe. And
(26:50):
when those bad things come your way and you're thinking
why is God allowing this, know that there's going to
be something, there's a bigger part of the picture that
will show itself or that will be part of the
importance of whatever is going on. But absolutely bad things
happen to Christians all the time. There are horrible, gut
wrenching stories that I hear all the time on this
(27:13):
program to believers. But it's not so you live in fear.
If you live in fear, then really the enemy is
more important in your life than he needs to be.
You have to live in confidence and knowing that whatever
does happen in your life, that God is in control ultimately,
and that God will turn all those instances in those
(27:35):
things around for something good and powerful if you allow it,
if you believe in God, and that knowing that and
having that in your heart is more important than looking
for the devil under every stone.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
KFI A six on demand
You're listening to KFI AM six forty on demand. Gwyneth,
Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Yes, thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
How can I help you?
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I have a son that's I tried to call in
at a cell phone, couldn't get through, so he asked
me to call. What he wants to know is where
did a sinner's prayer of repentance come from? Oh boy,
of saying Jesus come into my life. Yeah, I've told
him and that it's like the Trinity and rapture. It's there,
but not in those words, but.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Well sort of but different conceptually. There's there's a lot
of theological argumentation against it as well. It's gone, it's
gone through many forms. It's been around for a long time,
but it doesn't really date back to Scripture. It's kind
of a tool that's been modified many times by different
theologians and preachers to motivate people and to activate them
(00:54):
to receive God into their lives. Okay, now, the scripture
points out that that need to be done for forgiveness
of sins and for having this relationship with God. And
you kind of put them all together because you have well,
first and foremost repent repent, the big fancy word that
(01:16):
just means to turn away from truly change your mind.
Talks about being immersed. And now people will argue whether
you need to be baptized to be saved. Some will
say that it's a work and therefore it's not necessary,
but does play a part in the outward showing of
the inward goal, which is salvation, So it is a
(01:38):
part of it. And the forgiveness of sins talks about
in Acts two thirty eight about that, and about you
need that in order to enjoy relationship with Christ and
be a part of his spiritual body. So there's all
these things that really, over and over, the one thing
(02:00):
that stands out above anything else is the term believe.
You have to believe. Now, part of believing is confessing.
Part of confessing is saying it out loud so that
others here, so that you're accountable for what you're saying
and what you're going to be doing. And to live
the gospel, to live and obey the things of the gospel.
(02:23):
So that's really what salvation is about. And what happened
is people have tried over the years to encapsulate it,
to make it simple. They've kind of tried to make
these tools to so that somebody just say, well, if
I did this, then I'm saved. And it's really even
when we use the term the sinner's prayer on the show,
(02:46):
I don't mean the sinner's prayer that most people think.
I mean the concept of actualizing your desire to be
with God and making it happen by believing and repenting
and applying and obeying the words of Scripture in your life.
But the Lord's prayer that's kind of has kind of
(03:09):
become this prayer or what they call hot seat salvation
where people, you know, they do the alter calls and
people are kind of put on the hot seat and
they feel like, wow, maybe I've got to do this. Well.
Sometimes people react to that, and sometimes they don't. Also,
sometimes people react to that emotionally and then they fall
away later because it's never it's never been a part
(03:32):
of their life, truly. Luke sixty six says, and why
do you call me lord, Lord? And do not the
things that I say?
Speaker 3 (03:44):
So?
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Actually participating and obeying the things of God are the
most important. So obedience important, belief important, turning away, repenting,
turning away from those things that are not the will
of God, to the things that are will of God.
That's what's important. The prayer, the concept of the prayer
(04:07):
has a hang up in two basic places. Some say, well,
God isn't listening to the prayers of the unsaved, so
how do you get bypassed that? And there's those that
would argue, well, this is a prayer for salvation, therefore
God would hear it. All these things go back and forth.
So if you just skin off all the theological mumbo jumbo,
(04:28):
really it comes down to believing, truly, believing in your heart,
not just with your mouth, and applying it to your
life by being obedient to the word of God, specifically
obedient to the gospels and the things that are taught,
and repenting and turning away from those things, and baptized,
being baptized not for salvation, but as part of that salvation.
(04:52):
Meaning your wedding rings are not your marriage, they're a
sign of that marriage. So baptism is a sign of
that which you believe in, that which you've applied to
your life. But the sinner's prayer it's not in scripture,
and it's not even loose you could are you Well, well,
(05:12):
you're supposed to do this, this, that, and then and
we put it into a nice package where you can
do all that. But really the sinner's prayer is not
necessary in that context. What is necessary is believing, obedience, repentance,
and finally baptism. That's what's important. The sinner's prayer. People
get caught up in that and it becomes kind of
a political thing and this is the way we do it,
(05:34):
and searching for the right words to motivate, and then
it becomes like a marketing or sales tool, and it
can become kind of strange. But Scripture doesn't talk about
any prayer like that. There is no verse you're going
to find that it talks about that sinner's prayer. It's
more about conceptually, these are the things that need to
(05:56):
be done, and people will call on God. But some
sort of formulaic prayer something like that, it's not in there.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Wonderful.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
I hope that that helps. I know it's a lot
of information, but it's one of those topics, Gwyneth, that
people don't often ask. I'm very very proud that you asked,
because it's probably, oh gosh, one of a handful of
times small handful of times that it's even been approached.
Now we've prayed the Sinner's prayer once or twice on
(06:28):
the program with somebody who requested. But again, because of
its kind of bite sized usage, it became practical for
the way we do the program, and it's not something
we normally do to begin with. But so it's not
that it's evil or bad. And I know that you
can find all kinds of information where people say, oh,
(06:50):
this is horrible, and some attribute it to being proliferated
by Billy Graham. Yet it precedes Billy Graham quite a bit,
with all kinds of different people changing it a little
bit and saying, well, here's the four spiritual laws and
if you adhere to these, and really those things aren't
necessarily in Scripture chapter and verse where you're going to
(07:12):
be able to go to them. But conceptually, yes, the
things that are in there that are important to understand
don't have to come via a sinner's prayer. They have
to come through a pure and receiving heart that is obedient,
that desires to have God in their life, that rejects
(07:32):
the old ways, repents and turns towards those things which
are God given, which are God willed that truly to
be in that mindset of receiving God's will.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
To believe.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Over and over, that term is used in scripture to believe.
And I know that sounds like some corny movie where
it's like all you have to do is believe, but
really that act of of belief becomes that hardcore act
of faith to believe something, especially these days when you
are faced with all kinds of bizarre opposition. There's so
(08:10):
much garbage on the Internet alone that really is just
it's just garbage that is repackaged and trying to be
sold as truth that it's hard to even get to
that point of belief. And that's a huge act in
itself to participate. So does that mean that if you
(08:31):
said the Sinner's prayer years ago or today or anything
like that, that you're not a Christian. No, that's not
my point. The point is is that there is not
some spiritual tie to the sinner's prayer, and there's not
a place in scripture that you're going to find well,
this is the sinner's prayer and this is what needs
to be done for salvation. It was kind of a
(08:52):
one stop shop method to get people to understand what
needed to be done and to focus them. But I
think that if you believe, you first believe, and you
get into scripture and you really read, you participate, and
you show the world, and you confess with your mouth,
and you show the world in your with your actions.
You confess with your actions with your mouth, and you
(09:15):
were baptized and all those things are a part of
that experience. It's just none of those works are something
that you're doing, a work in what you're doing, and
then you're being rewarded for That's not what it is.
It is holy and solely a free gift. Warren, Welcome
(09:37):
to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Hi, Good morning, Jesus. Hi there Hi. Just just a
question for you, and as I'm starting to think about
having more and more every day, you know, as this
place of course, the unimaginable beauty and love and all
of those things that we were taught over the years
about it. But the question I have is, and it
(10:02):
relates to just a brief story. I have a had
a brother who passed away a number of years ago
in prison and for all intents and purposes, was just
not a not a good person. Heard a lot of
people spent more than half of his life in prison,
died in prison, and as I'd like to think about,
(10:23):
heaven again is having all these thoughts And obviously, like
I said, with my brother not being a good person
at all, he was still my brother and still loved
by me and the entire family. And when that day comes,
and hopefully as a family we're all in that special
place together understanding the possibility that, you know, let's face it,
(10:45):
he he just won't be there. And if heaven is
a place without regrets, without sorrows, and and and all
of these things, how can you not feel the regret?
How can you not feel sorry? And how can you
go on, you know, throughout eternity with this void, that
(11:07):
this specific loved one is not there and won't be
there because of the way he lived his life, which,
like I said, he lived like an animal and he
died like an animal. But that was our brother, that
was my parent son, and we loved him. Sure, But
how do you cope with that?
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Well, yeah, this is a great question, and we're since
we're up against the clock, I'm going to ask you
to hold on. I know you've been very patient, but
I want to talk to you some more about this
and give you time rather than just throwing out a
ten second answer to you. So can you hold on? Yes, Yeah,
just hanging tight and when we come back, I'll explain
the difference and what really will be going on in
heaven and why it's so hard for humans to grasp
(11:48):
that here talking with Warren. Warren, thanks for holding on.
Thank you. You say that your brother was in jail.
Not a good guy died in jail. Your question really
goes to the heart of a lot of people's fears,
(12:09):
and that's heaven. And what are you going to do
in heaven when there's going to be people missing, people
that you loved, and how do you reconcile that with
a place like heaven? Is that really the the nut
in the shell?
Speaker 2 (12:21):
There? It is?
Speaker 3 (12:23):
It is, and it's so painful because you know, my
parents did a great job raising my other siblings. He's
just you know, the one that got away, and yeah,
caused a lot of pain with them because they did
the best that they could with all of us. You
know him him aside, but don't know what happened to him,
(12:46):
the bad seed. I guess whatever you want to say,
but you know, he really caused them a lot of grief.
They stood by him, and as now, they're both in
their eighties, and you know, they're not going to be here,
you know, much longer, longer. They are Christians, and they
have their beliefs that they'll be in that special place,
(13:07):
and I have no doubt about it, as well as
myself and my other siblings. But you know, I like
to think of heaven as this beautiful, wonderful place. When
I get there one day, I'll meet the grandparents that
you know, died long before I was born, and we'll
all be together and we'll all be happy. But there's
this one person that is not going to be there.
(13:28):
If it was anyone other than my brother, if it
was a neighbor or something like that, I would say, well,
I know where this person is, you know, no doubt
about it. They're burning in hell because of the life
that they lived and the pain and suffering that they
caused on others. But because it is my brother, I'd
like to believe that there's some hope that God had
a plan for him, as hard as that is to imagine,
(13:50):
because of, like I said, the pain and suffering that
he caused on others. I'm sure God wouldn't want that
on anyone, But you know, how do you cope with that?
If Heaven's this place where there's no sorrow, no grief,
how do you not feel that?
Speaker 1 (14:05):
And this is this is really about applying very human
traits and beliefs and you know, feelings to Heaven. And
in Revelation twenty one, it says that he will, speaking
of God, he will wipe every tear from their eyes.
There will be no more death or mourning or crying
(14:27):
or pain, for the old order of things has passed away. Now,
the old order of things passing away is really an
important part of that, just as much as the wiping
of the tears and so on. Years ago, someone called up,
I don't know if they were trying to stump me
or something, called up and said I've got a riddle
for you. And I said okay. And the riddle was,
where are the two places where there are no hope?
(14:49):
And I replied quickly that Heaven and Hell? Hell there
is no hope because there is no there's nothing that
will satiate, there's nothing that will quench your thirst. And
it is the full absence of hope is what hell is.
And heaven because there's no need for it. It is
(15:11):
the fulfillment of hope. So you've got this place that's unique,
it's you can't compare it to any other experience. But
what I do want to do is apply some understandings
that you have here on earth. One, you can't know
where your brother is. You can guess, make a very
(15:31):
good educated guess based on the life he led and
who he was, But no one's there in those moments
of death. For one, and for two, a moment to
God is longer because God is outside of time. So
the things that to you might be the blink of
an eye can be a lifetime to God to experience
(15:57):
or extract that moment needed for somebody to fully see
and understand. Because heaven is not about ignorance. Getting to
heaven or Hell is not about ignorance. It's about acceptance
or rejection. So it's not while they didn't I didn't know,
I didn't know what was really like that, and gosh,
now I'm missing out. It won't be like that is
people are saying, no, I don't want to spend time
(16:19):
with you here on earth. I don't want to spend
time with you in heaven. Heaven is not just a bigger, better,
prettier in your case, Tampa, Florida. It's not just home
like that. It's beyond that, and it supersedes and transcends
all of those understandings. It's not just a homecoming between
you and your family. It has nothing to do with that.
(16:41):
What it is is a homecoming between you and your
maker and them and their maker. And in that case,
you're all equal. You're not just family members to one another,
you're family members to the whole. Yes, So imagine this
when you see those pictures, paintings, whatever, that are captured
(17:01):
moments captured in time from wartime of people coming home,
and some of them are so iconographic that they just
you can see them right now, the sailor in the
embrace with his girl and they're holding each other. Now,
this is after wartime and the experience of heinous things.
(17:24):
Now that moment will subside, and through the realities of life,
the loss and the things that they saw will slowly
seep in. But in that moment, that pure moment of
wrapping yourself around another human being that you've loved and
missed and you're happy to see in a way that
(17:44):
you can't explain to people that have been separated for
years by strange circumstances. A mother and child who have
been separated via certain circumstances, when you see them come together,
there is no one else in that room. There is
nothing else in existence except that moment of being reunited.
(18:05):
That is heaven. It's that moment. It's not what comes after,
it's not any of that. It's that moment of being
reunited with the Maker. And when you are in the
presence of God and you are wrapped in his glory,
there is nothing, no family member, nothing that compares to
(18:27):
that moment. And I think that it is so outside
of comprehension and the day to day experiences that you
or anybody else on this planet has, that it's hard
to really understand what it's like to be captured in
that moment for eternity, that homecoming moment, that embrace, that
where the tears are so intense and there is nothing
(18:49):
else in the world. You can't you don't hear sounds,
you don't smell anything. You're just locked in that moment
of coming home.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
And it is very difficult. Well, because we were at
family gatherings. Now he's been. Uh he's been gone now
for you know, over eight years. And you know, at
family gatherings, Thanksgiving, you know, Christmas, we all get around,
we say a prayer and you know one of the
things we of course we do, is we pray for him.
And you know, just wondering if at that point, you know,
(19:21):
is it is it is it doing any good? You
know to do that?
Speaker 2 (19:25):
What?
Speaker 1 (19:25):
What?
Speaker 3 (19:25):
Because like I said, uh, he was a bad guy,
had really no redeemable qualities. That he was older than me.
But I just remember him as as we were growing up,
as as always in jail, always uh, causing difficulties. But
you know, we we pray for him as we say, okay,
we're gonna he's not here, We're going to stay a
prayer for him as a family. And you know, uh what,
(19:49):
what is there any good in that? I mean, are
those are those prayers being heard? And if so, is
it is it causing him in the afterlife?
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (19:57):
You know, any any comforts?
Speaker 1 (19:59):
You know, things like nothing, there's nothing like that concept
of reaching into the afterlife. Nothing. Your prayers go to God.
And as far as comfort, the only comfort in the
afterlife is that it's a decision that's made holdheartedly with
all the information you could possibly have, and the decision
(20:20):
to be away from God or to be absent from
God is the equivalent of him being in jail. I mean,
he rejected the ways of the world and society and
thought it was better to be locked up in jail. Ultimately,
even though they don't want to get caught, con still
know that that is a huge possibility and likelihood that
(20:41):
they will at some point end up in jail, and
that was still a better plan than being in the
world the way everyone else was. He made that choice.
So likewise, it's that way with heaven and hell that
it's people who say, I just don't want God, I
don't want to be a part of it. I don't
want to be account. I want to live the way
(21:01):
I want to live, and I want to do what
I want to do. And if that means being away
from God for eternity after this life, so be it.
And so they are. Now that is hell. From being
absent from the salvation power of God is hell. Now
as far as whether someone can be saved after all
that ugliness, all I have to say is that one
(21:22):
drop of my blood on that cross supersedes anything that
can be done by any man or woman. So these
people that say, oh, the such an ugly person, I
get that, and by human standards understood. But the death
(21:44):
on the cross, the death of perfection on the cross,
the blood that was shed on that cross, and the
resurrection to stamp that paid in full, supersedes anything that
can be done by man, no matter how heinous. The
thing is that when someone goes down that path, it's
(22:06):
usually down that path of rejection of God's will to
begin with. They don't want to do things right, they
don't want to the laws of man, as scripture says,
have to be obeyed. So that's that's essentially the will
of God. So if you're rejecting those, and you're continually
(22:26):
rejecting truth and the will of God, then most likely
you're going to continue to reject that. But you don't know.
All you need to know is that as harsh as
this sounds, people don't grasp Heaven. You won't care, it
won't matter, it doesn't matter, And when you're there in
(22:49):
the presence of God, it's going to be about the
reunion between you and God. That's it for eternity and
that moment that's same type of moment where you see
two people just come together and embrace one another. It's
and this is by no means a desire to be
(23:11):
crass or vulgar, but I want you to think about
one of the most intense feelings that a human can
feel is an orgasm. Can you imagine that a husband
and wife coming to climax at the same time thinking
about their taxes. It's not gonna happen. There is nothing
you are going to think about in that moment, and
there's Theologically there are many that say that that is
(23:32):
a tiny morsel of understanding of heaven in the physical realm.
So and I know people will pollute that statement, but
what I'm trying to get across is that there are
times on this earth when you are so euphoric and
so enraptured that you aren't thinking about anything else but
(23:54):
being in that moment. And those are tastes. Those are
tastes of the joy and the intensity of eternity that
you'll experience. You won't be thinking about anything else. There
won't be that space, there won't be sadness, there won't
be any of those things, because you will be in
the moment without beginning middle or end in that moment
(24:16):
with God for eternity, and it's that moment of being
reunited with the Maker, coming home in a way like
you've never come home before. And so I think that
it's healthy and normal to be thinking these thoughts. But ultimately, Warren,
it comes down to this, you just won't care. Maria,
(24:41):
Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Hi, Jesus Christ.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Hi Maria.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
I have a question. I know things out in the
world swift among us, and so is Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
And I know the world seems like it's well to me.
It seems like it's getting the Little Word in a
lot of ways. And I was kind of wondering.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
I'm a Christian. I believe in Jesus Christ with all
my heart, Okay at it, and I've just been so
a little scared.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
How is it that.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Jesus doesn't let sane hurt us in this world?
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Right?
Speaker 3 (25:17):
He protects us? We believe in him.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Well, you're not protected against all things in that way,
because there are things that there are adversity and things
in life that are good for you, that are healthy
and part of the process. Now, Scripture doesn't say that
nothing's going to happen to you in this sense that
you're never going to have a problem. But it does
(25:41):
say specifically in Romans eight twenty eight, and I think
this is a good verse for you, says we know
that all things work together for good to those who
love God. So it's not about only good things happening
to you. It's that all will work out for the good,
and that not to be looking for the devil under
(26:02):
every stone. The fact is that it says in scripture,
greater is He that is in me than he that
is in the world. So God is inside you. Greater
is the God that is inside you than the devil
that is roaming this earth. And you should trust that
and know that there's power in that. However, don't assume
(26:24):
that there's never going to be anything bad happening to you.
The Good Book says that it rains on the just
and the unjust alike. So there's going to be good
and bad days. But the most important part of that
is knowing that God will turn all things around for
his glory and for good to those who believe. And
(26:50):
when those bad things come your way and you're thinking
why is God allowing this, know that there's going to
be something, there's a bigger part of the picture that
will show itself or that will be part of the
importance of whatever is going on. But absolutely bad things
happen to Christians all the time. There are horrible, gut
wrenching stories that I hear all the time on this
(27:13):
program to believers. But it's not so you live in fear.
If you live in fear, then really the enemy is
more important in your life than he needs to be.
You have to live in confidence and knowing that whatever
does happen in your life, that God is in control ultimately,
and that God will turn all those instances in those
(27:35):
things around for something good and powerful if you allow it,
if you believe in God, and that knowing that and
having that in your heart is more important than looking
for the devil under every stone.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
KFI A six on demand
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