March 16, 2025 • 29 mins
Why do People Use Illegal Labor
Being Called to Ministry
In love with a Muslim Woman
Being Called to Ministry
In love with a Muslim Woman
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to KFI A six on demand. Jim, Welcome
to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Hello. Have a very hard question that I'm having a
hard time getting answer out of some of my Christian brothers.
I got out of public school teaching because of the
hypocrisy and the troubles within the public school. And I
know that's probably selfish, but I had seventeen years i'd
have enough of the craziness. But now I'm start of
(00:30):
three landscape business in South Texas. I've discovered you cannot
run on these businesses without using cheap labor. And my
question is someone who's redeemed, saved, born again, the question
would be why do people use their legal labor. I
(00:51):
think it's because it's cheaper, sure, and would someone who
has saved use it for that reason? And our church
was built partially by illegal labor, and I know it's
because we could get it done cheaper. So that's the question,
is that right? I understand taking care of my brothers.
(01:12):
If I was from Mexico, I'd bring my family over
here to you, no problem. I understand that.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
The American citizens that are now I understand why you
left slavery in the Bible because it makes more sense
to me.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Now, there are major problems with using illegal labor knowingly.
Now in the state of affairs in the United States currently,
it can be very difficult to every single time try
to vet a company in your hopes or that they're
(01:44):
vetting them and so on. But knowingly, So let's go
with the knowingly part. Knowingly using illegal labor is wrong
for a Christian. Absolutely, Scripturally you deal with the laws
of man. It says that you're to follow the laws
of man. And if the law says that they are
in a state of legality, and that's not a pejorative,
(02:05):
that is the actual legal term is that they are
legal aliens. If they are legal aliens not here properly
with the proper paperwork and all of that, then you
are are trying to buck the system, and in doing that,
you're breaking the law. And if you're breaking the law,
(02:26):
that's ungodly. For one. For two, the process of using
illegal labors is taking advantage of their situation, and it's
not about them learning. Like let's say a younger person
or someone new to a company, they're in the process
of learning, so you may give them less money as
(02:47):
they climb up the ladder. But this is different. Oftentimes
it's seen as an opportunity to exploit these workers because
they're i llegal and they can't tell or they can't
defend themselves, which is equally as ugly. So both those
(03:08):
things would be a problem scripturally. And if your church
was using labor that they knew was not in the
United States legally, shame on them. That doesn't bring glory
to God. So there's going to be times where you
can't know. There's been times where I've seen people that
(03:29):
have met with you a company, have seen all their
paperwork and made agreements, and then when the work starts,
it seems that there's a whole new set of people
that are doing the work. It gets very difficult to
start trying to vet all of those things specifically, but
it can be done to a certain degree, and you
(03:49):
should do it within the best of your ability to
make sure it's on the up and up, because all
that happens is you've got these quixotes that are bringing
people to across the border, that are using them for
slave labor. You've got them gouging them for money, You've
got them turning some of the people into prostitutes. You've
(04:12):
got ugly things going on, because now the people have
become a commodity, and coming to the United States has
become a commodity, and it creates a bunch of ugliness.
So that supply and demand is part of the problem
and becomes ugliness. And at the core of it, human
beings are treated like cattle. And so that has to
(04:34):
be above all, above border issues, above any of those
things and here legally illegally, and all those arguments going on.
Above all humanity is involved. Human beings are involved and
are being not seen as human beings. They're being seen
(04:56):
as day laborers. And that's a problem as well, so
on both. Just because somebody is doing something that is
illegal on the books coming to the country of the
United States doesn't mean that somebody who is a citizen
of the United States is right for exploiting that. I
(05:20):
don't think that that would be I don't think that
that would be a healthy way for a Christian to
express their faith. I know it's very difficult out there,
and I know that a lot of general contractors and
contractors of every ilk I have issues with this, and
(05:41):
it becomes a problem. But if you want something done right,
and you want a process to be a righteous process,
then you've got to partake in it as well. You know,
you don't every time somebody speeds past you on the
freeways and you look at them and go, oh, what
a jerk. Yet when you speed, oh, it's because while
(06:04):
I really need to get somewhere and I was running
a little late, and it's very important, And there's all
kinds of excuses and reasons. You can't look at life
that way. You can't look at the world that it's
you know, everything you do is okay, but it's not
okay when other people do it, and there's within reason.
You know there's going to be times or opportunities where
(06:26):
you don't know and it's inappropriate to ask, you know,
a neighbor or something like that. You might feel inappropriate,
but if there's a way, an honest way to check,
you should, just like you would the license number of
somebody of a contractor who says they're going to be
working on something, you want to know. You want to
(06:47):
make sure that they're licensed. You would no more walk
into a situation with a company and pretend like you
had a license, because it's too expensive to take the
test or it's too expensive to get licensed every year
or every two years, you know, and times are tough
(07:07):
right now and I can't renew that or whatever it
might be. I don't think that that's a legitimate reason
for a Christian to do anything. And abiding by the
law is important for the believer. People are watching you
if you claim to be Christian, people are watching you differently. Now.
Some people may be obnoxious about it, and they may
(07:29):
try and nitpick you. And if that's the case, you
know what, move on, don't bother listening to them. But
within those reasons and your ability to continue to hone
who you are. You know, Christians often say I'm a
work in progress. Of course you are. But through that
process you should be doing things that benefit you and
(07:50):
everyone else and that are productive and that are honest.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
You know.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
This lies back to many different scriptures, including Proverbs, where
it says that God hates a false weight, and that
dealt with the merchants, the merchants that would load rocks
in the scales or modify the scale so that you
were you thought you were getting more, therefore you paid more,
but they weren't. How is that any different? Because very
(08:18):
rarely does that get passed passed along to the client.
And so you got to keep those things in mind.
How you're making the money and at what cost. You
don't want to do it, participate in anything illegal, because
then it's for not doesn't glorify God. So your only
reward is that money at the end of the day. Jake,
(08:43):
Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
I have a two part questions for you here, sort
of a response to Tom Okay who.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Had called earlier in regards to UH forfeiting his pastoral
stance by having an affair.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Okay, what qualifies a person to be a pastor and
how does one know when they are called?
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Well, I think you have, you know, an urgency in
your heart and in your spirit to do the things
of God first and foremost. They say that that man
is ordained by God, and that's recognized by man. So
it's not the other way around where people feel like, well,
like a church has to say, Okay, you're led to
(09:31):
do this, not the truth. If you feel moved to
to preach or to teach in that context, the first
you'd imagine, the first start would be of that particular
path would be to study to go to school, to
you know, audit classes, do it on your own, whatever
(09:53):
it is, but to study and to show yourself approved
in the knowledge first. The same way if you said,
you know what, I really want to be a carpenter, well,
first learn how to be a carpenter and study that.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
The reason I called to get your opinion on it
is because I'm I'm very very conflicted about this. So well,
how to put it. Let's see, I grew up in
church in a fundamental you know, literal interpretation, not legalistic,
(10:34):
but fundamentalist church, and so I believe the Bible as
it is written, and I also believe that being behind
the pulpit is Yes, it is a high calling, and
it's an honor and a privilege and also carrious with
it a great responsibility. As you were saying, you have
to be beyond reproach.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Absolutely, So what's your concern.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
I am not beyond reproach. I mean, you know, I'm not.
I'm married, you know, But.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
As far as have you had an affair? Yeah, okay,
well it's not it's they're specifics that it's talking about
in that it's not just about it to be a
beyond reproach doesn't mean stop being a human being being
something superhuman. That wasn't my point with Tom either. My
(11:25):
point was that Tom specifically, well, he was a pastor,
had an affair on his wife, and you don't get
to be a pastor anymore. But if you are saying
that there are things that you need to work out
in your life, will work them out, you know, make them,
work through them, and and make yourself a whole as
you stand before God. But it doesn't mean that everything
(11:47):
you preach you're going to be excellent at. You're just
you're not. You're dealing with the perfection in the Word
of God. There was a specific situation though, about being
the husband of one one wife and above reproach means
within reason, an understandable reason, uh, in your life. And
(12:08):
if you can't do that, then then no, it's probably
not the best thing for you. Being called to ministry.
There's a lot of people that are called the ministry
and you hear all kinds of different stories. Oh, I
had this this moment and it's like, well, how do
you how I read these signs that in my life?
(12:31):
What do they mean? Where does God want me? What
would he have me do? Well? Scripture is very specific
about being called to that particular part as overseer. It says,
an overseer then must be above reproach, the husband of
one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not
(12:53):
addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, uncontentious, for from
the love of money. He must be one who manages
his own household well, keeping his children under control with
all dignity. But all of these things point to part
(13:15):
of that calling. And I know sometimes there's a certain
glittery appeal to being in these positions of power. And
sometimes people go, gosh, I want to be this, or
I want to be an actor, I want to be
a writer, I want to be this, whatever it might be.
Sometimes if there's a position of authority, it becomes it has,
(13:37):
you know, a sex appeal to it, where where you're
engaged by it just because of the position, and you
have to kind of check that and vet that and
make sure that that's not part of the equation. Well,
I speak well, and I talk very good, and I
do this, and I do all these things, and that
may not matter to God. There's been times where there
were people that did not speak well in scripture, and
(14:01):
you know, Moses kept trying to push that off and say, uh,
you know what, you may be my brother because I
don't speak so good and really don't have a way
with people. And it's like no, I say you. So,
it's not about that, not just about those things. It's
about finding something that you're so compelled to do that
it presses you to want to be better as a
(14:23):
human being, and that that plays a part it. They're
just you meet people that just are different, They just
don't have those desires and check themselves a little differently
than you do, and them being in a place of
leadership makes the most sense. You don't want to put
yourself in a position that you can't handle because it
(14:43):
will end up swallowing you and taking down the faith
with it, and that's not what I want. Gracie. Welcome
to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
Yes, how you doing good?
Speaker 1 (14:56):
How can I help you? Gracy?
Speaker 4 (14:58):
Well, I wanted to ask question. Its something about marriaging. Okay,
because I have a stepfather that sixty five years old.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Okay, turned down your radio in the back there, Racy,
will you turned down the radio on the back there,
Dear Okay. I'm sure you've never heard anybody on the
radio tell you that before, but I appreciate it now,
thank you. Okay.
Speaker 4 (15:22):
Well, he's sixty five, I'm fifty three.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
Back in the eighties, by seventy nine till ninety nine,
he was with my mother and he wasn't married to
her or anything, but he was living with her. He
took care of her. They lived together for twenty five years,
I guess, and she passed away. So I haven't seen
(15:48):
him for about five or six years until he decided
to come back. He was living with my brother before.
But now he's telling me that he's interested in me,
he wants to make a.
Speaker 5 (16:00):
Life with me.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
But I don't think it's I don't feel comfortable. She
is my mother, she was my best friend, she's my love.
She was everything to me. You know.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
That's that's it. You don't feel comfortable with that, That's
that's the biggest response you have to that.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
Yes, And I don't feel like it's right because I'm
a Catholic. Well, I'm a spiritual Catholic, and I believe
that if her spirit is floating around and she's with seven,
she watches everything and everything that we do is say,
you know, I just.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Don't feel like what is what does spiritual Catholic mean.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
That her angel is watching over us and looking over us?
And I feel that if I do something like that
to my own mother that would make me she will punish, well,
not her, but I feel like I would.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Be punnished for doing first of all, But Catholics don't
teach that people become angels. But having said that, let's
let's look at at the response. You should be more
flipped out about this than you are. Thanks you're going
on doesn't sit right with me, and I feel like
I might be punished. Are all the wrong answers, And
(17:09):
you should be disgusted by this on its face, and
and and and you actually told enough about the the
circumstances leading up to this that shows you the type
of man this is. And what's your what your mom
brought into her home and into your life? Uh, this
was a man who was noncommitted to begin with, who
(17:30):
didn't want to commit and merely lived with your mom,
and then you know, lived with your brother and now
sniffing around your your part of town seeing if you're
interested not a good person. Oh, I'm I'm sorry to
(17:50):
be the one to have to tell you that, but.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
They wanted to hear the whole.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
But you should just be disgusted by it. We covered
that if I.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
Do something like that, that would be my disgusting city
that I would.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Have insite me because it's disgusting. Now, it doesn't mean
there haven't been circumstances that happen in life that socially
somebody might say is, oh, this is you know, unacceptable,
but biblically, there's not a problem with it. What I'm
saying is that your particular, your particular specific context that
you told me about. I'm not sure why you're not
(18:28):
more flipped out about it. I am more concerned.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
I am, but then I am I feel sorry for him,
But then I don't feel like I should do anything
like that with him.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
You should run, not walk, to the nearest exit. You
shouldn't have this man in your life at all, and
tell him that that he's made you feel uncomfortable if
that is the case, and that that you don't wish
to have any contact with him. Leave it at that, Okay, okay, yes,
and say good night, Gracie, good night, all right, thank you?
(19:04):
That the important thing there is to have the ability
the discernmant to see when people are using you or
being predatory. Now I this this man hasn't called in,
so he's not here to defend himself. We're going strictly
on the story, but on the on the story as
it stands. I know that people fall in love with
(19:26):
one another for different reasons, but in this case, it's
obvious that you can look around and say, here is
somebody who was with your mother for a long period time,
didn't even marry her, and now he's coming around looking
at you. That's odd. He should have the same feelings.
I mean, there could be misplaced feelings. That's that's normal,
(19:47):
misplaced feelings that you remind me of your mother. I
was so in love with her. The way you laugh,
your appearance, certain things about you, these types of things
you too. To have those feelings normal, but to understand
them in their context and to say this is not
(20:08):
okay and not appropriate to pursue would be where you
come in as an adult and say this is not okay.
So on both sides, as the daughter and as the
pretend husband, that it's not okay, and it brings a
lot of a lot of ugliness into the situation. That's
(20:33):
I don't know why you wouldn't just cut that off
and say no, I'm disgusted that you'd even ask me
that or pursue me like that. I love and I
miss my mother, and I know you meant something to her.
You do not mean that to me, and I prefer
that we don't have any contact. I don't know what's
so difficult about that, that kind of running your toes
in the sand, going well, maybe this or maybe that.
(20:57):
And the guy's been gone for five or six years,
so it's not like there was a relationship that was
built up and now you're curious about exploring it. It's
it had died and now it comes back and going hey, maybe,
I don't know. I would just expected a whole different
response out of that one. I expected a more upset, angry,
(21:19):
frustrated response. Okay, Don, welcome to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 5 (21:37):
Thank you, Savior.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
How are you, Don?
Speaker 5 (21:41):
I'm pretty good, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
What's going on?
Speaker 5 (21:43):
Well, I'm very much in love and in fact engaged
to a Muslim girl. And my preacher tells me that
in the Bible it says to yoke myself with a
non believer. I have a friend in church that told
(22:10):
me that he read and I can't remember where he said,
but that it was okay. I'm just kind of paraphrasing
this that it's okay as long as you're trying to
lead her to Christ, lead her to you.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Well, that's a and both of those conclusions I think
are based on their own biased So I will tell
you this. Yeah, scripture talks about being unequally yoked, but
it's not talking about marriage. I know a lot of
people put that in there, but it's not specifically talking
(22:49):
about marriage and relationships in context. Well, not necessarily, because
there's more to it than that. And yes, you should
be seeking the salvation of others by being a wonderful
example and sharing your faith when asked about the hope
that lies within you. Yes, but in addition to that,
pragmatically both with your faith and with your life. To
(23:13):
be involved with somebody of a differing faith can be
a huge problem. Now, if you guys are more seasoned
in your citizenry and you're not going to have children,
it becomes less of a problem.
Speaker 5 (23:29):
Yes, well we're pastor. She has a daughter thirteen, but
we don't have plans to have any children. And I'm
I'm sixty three and she's forty four.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Okay, so that's not what you're seeking. There's a major
age discrepancy. Why is there so much distance in the age?
Speaker 5 (23:53):
Pardon me?
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Why are you so much older than she?
Speaker 5 (23:57):
Well, we met in a nursing home that I was
in for a short while, and we were attracted to
each other and it's been we've been in a ongoing
relationship for over two years now.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Okay, So where do you connect? I mean, where is
that part that you connect If it's not the age,
I mean, you don't have the same references growing up.
If it's not the faith, where are you connecting to her?
To each other?
Speaker 5 (24:31):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Is it just physical? You like the way she looks?
She makes you laugh?
Speaker 5 (24:36):
Oh no, no, no, no no, It's much deeper than that.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Okay, But in what context If it's not your faith
and it's not your upbringing references because you're brought.
Speaker 5 (24:46):
Up, it's like we can almost read each other's minds.
She's also somewhat of a caregiver to me. Not a lot.
I don't require a lot.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Okay, but are you sure you haven't fallen in love?
With that concept of somebody that's taking care of you.
Speaker 5 (25:09):
I've so searched about that very question.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Well, that means that it's something of great importance.
Speaker 5 (25:16):
And I haven't been or I haven't felt closer and
as much in love with anyone in my life as
I am with her.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Okay, But we started out this program with John seven
twenty four, and that's stop judging by mere appearances and
make the right judgment. So that's not necessarily on just
the things you feel or see or think, well, this
appears to be this way. I appear to have these feelings,
and that's and I don't want to belittle them. I
understand love is a wonderful thing and that it, but
(25:53):
it makes it clouds people's judgment and vision. Sometimes I
think that every case is unique and that as individuals
you're not going to be having children. Then that leaves
the child rearing out of the equation, and that's where
it becomes the biggest problem. However, when you start having
(26:14):
images of and worshiping of different faiths going on inside
the house, that might be uncomfortable or one will win out.
Usually there's kind of a wrestling match, whether it's obvious
or not. So obvious and one can win out. There's
a lot of problems that go with the with the
mixed faith. So as far as getting a stamp of
(26:34):
approval on it and saying, well, God's going to condone this, No,
that's not necessarily. What's the way it's going to go down? However,
you're not sinning necessarily by being with somebody of a
different faith, nor are you sinning to marry someone of
a different faith. The sinning comes, that's good to know.
Speaker 5 (26:53):
That's comforting.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Well, it's only comforting in as much as you practice that.
If it takes you away from your faith at all,
if it distracts you from your faith, if it makes
you veer away from any of your practices or understanding,
then yes, it becomes sinning.
Speaker 5 (27:10):
No, I will tell you Jesus that just about the
opposite has occurred. My faith has grown stronger because she
has agreed to go with me to church.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
And are you going to go with her and pray
as well?
Speaker 5 (27:36):
To her church?
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Not a church?
Speaker 5 (27:38):
But yes, her she doesn't attend.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Okay, so she may not be someone of a particularly
strong faith.
Speaker 5 (27:50):
No, but people just she's Indonesian, and it's just that's
what she was brought up with.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Okay, well, there's going to be different variables that are
going to change this situation, and now we don't have
time to go through every single one of them. So
I want to give you kind of an outline, and
the outline is to protect yourself and to protect your faith.
That if you've fallen in love with somebody, and I
hear these terms all the time about oh I've fallen
in love or I've never had this experience, you can
(28:21):
move forward. You have free will to move forward in
any of those things as a Christian, as a human being,
as an American. The thing you need to protect is
your faith. People do change when they get married. Sometimes
the faith can be bolstered by someone of the opposite
faith reminds you of why you believe, and sometimes not.
(28:41):
And she may not be that interested in her faith now,
but maybe she will be later and it may become
a problem. So you just need to know going into
these things. I know a lot of people would it'd
be easier if it was just a sin flat out,
but really, when it's talking about being unequally yoked, it's
talking about not intertwining. I know, on a daily basis,
with people in a way that's going to drag you down,
(29:05):
And you could absolutely apply that to marriage. But to
say that marroring somebody of a different faith or something
like that is a sin, you're not necessarily going to
find that in scripture. People may twist things to say that,
but it's not super productive. If you have children, it
can be a horrible problem and it takes its toll.
There's enough problems in marriage as it is, and enough
(29:28):
difficulties that you have to figure your way around and
negotiate that. To add this to the equation can just
be more problems than you think it is once you're
in it. KFI AM six forty on demand
You're listening to KFI A six on demand. Jim, Welcome
to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Hello. Have a very hard question that I'm having a
hard time getting answer out of some of my Christian brothers.
I got out of public school teaching because of the
hypocrisy and the troubles within the public school. And I
know that's probably selfish, but I had seventeen years i'd
have enough of the craziness. But now I'm start of
(00:30):
three landscape business in South Texas. I've discovered you cannot
run on these businesses without using cheap labor. And my
question is someone who's redeemed, saved, born again, the question
would be why do people use their legal labor. I
(00:51):
think it's because it's cheaper, sure, and would someone who
has saved use it for that reason? And our church
was built partially by illegal labor, and I know it's
because we could get it done cheaper. So that's the question,
is that right? I understand taking care of my brothers.
(01:12):
If I was from Mexico, I'd bring my family over
here to you, no problem. I understand that.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
The American citizens that are now I understand why you
left slavery in the Bible because it makes more sense
to me.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Now, there are major problems with using illegal labor knowingly.
Now in the state of affairs in the United States currently,
it can be very difficult to every single time try
to vet a company in your hopes or that they're
(01:44):
vetting them and so on. But knowingly, So let's go
with the knowingly part. Knowingly using illegal labor is wrong
for a Christian. Absolutely, Scripturally you deal with the laws
of man. It says that you're to follow the laws
of man. And if the law says that they are
in a state of legality, and that's not a pejorative,
(02:05):
that is the actual legal term is that they are
legal aliens. If they are legal aliens not here properly
with the proper paperwork and all of that, then you
are are trying to buck the system, and in doing that,
you're breaking the law. And if you're breaking the law,
(02:26):
that's ungodly. For one. For two, the process of using
illegal labors is taking advantage of their situation, and it's
not about them learning. Like let's say a younger person
or someone new to a company, they're in the process
of learning, so you may give them less money as
(02:47):
they climb up the ladder. But this is different. Oftentimes
it's seen as an opportunity to exploit these workers because
they're i llegal and they can't tell or they can't
defend themselves, which is equally as ugly. So both those
(03:08):
things would be a problem scripturally. And if your church
was using labor that they knew was not in the
United States legally, shame on them. That doesn't bring glory
to God. So there's going to be times where you
can't know. There's been times where I've seen people that
(03:29):
have met with you a company, have seen all their
paperwork and made agreements, and then when the work starts,
it seems that there's a whole new set of people
that are doing the work. It gets very difficult to
start trying to vet all of those things specifically, but
it can be done to a certain degree, and you
(03:49):
should do it within the best of your ability to
make sure it's on the up and up, because all
that happens is you've got these quixotes that are bringing
people to across the border, that are using them for
slave labor. You've got them gouging them for money, You've
got them turning some of the people into prostitutes. You've
(04:12):
got ugly things going on, because now the people have
become a commodity, and coming to the United States has
become a commodity, and it creates a bunch of ugliness.
So that supply and demand is part of the problem
and becomes ugliness. And at the core of it, human
beings are treated like cattle. And so that has to
(04:34):
be above all, above border issues, above any of those
things and here legally illegally, and all those arguments going on.
Above all humanity is involved. Human beings are involved and
are being not seen as human beings. They're being seen
(04:56):
as day laborers. And that's a problem as well, so
on both. Just because somebody is doing something that is
illegal on the books coming to the country of the
United States doesn't mean that somebody who is a citizen
of the United States is right for exploiting that. I
(05:20):
don't think that that would be I don't think that
that would be a healthy way for a Christian to
express their faith. I know it's very difficult out there,
and I know that a lot of general contractors and
contractors of every ilk I have issues with this, and
(05:41):
it becomes a problem. But if you want something done right,
and you want a process to be a righteous process,
then you've got to partake in it as well. You know,
you don't every time somebody speeds past you on the
freeways and you look at them and go, oh, what
a jerk. Yet when you speed, oh, it's because while
(06:04):
I really need to get somewhere and I was running
a little late, and it's very important, And there's all
kinds of excuses and reasons. You can't look at life
that way. You can't look at the world that it's
you know, everything you do is okay, but it's not
okay when other people do it, and there's within reason.
You know there's going to be times or opportunities where
(06:26):
you don't know and it's inappropriate to ask, you know,
a neighbor or something like that. You might feel inappropriate,
but if there's a way, an honest way to check,
you should, just like you would the license number of
somebody of a contractor who says they're going to be
working on something, you want to know. You want to
(06:47):
make sure that they're licensed. You would no more walk
into a situation with a company and pretend like you
had a license, because it's too expensive to take the
test or it's too expensive to get licensed every year
or every two years, you know, and times are tough
(07:07):
right now and I can't renew that or whatever it
might be. I don't think that that's a legitimate reason
for a Christian to do anything. And abiding by the
law is important for the believer. People are watching you
if you claim to be Christian, people are watching you differently. Now.
Some people may be obnoxious about it, and they may
(07:29):
try and nitpick you. And if that's the case, you
know what, move on, don't bother listening to them. But
within those reasons and your ability to continue to hone
who you are. You know, Christians often say I'm a
work in progress. Of course you are. But through that
process you should be doing things that benefit you and
(07:50):
everyone else and that are productive and that are honest.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
You know.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
This lies back to many different scriptures, including Proverbs, where
it says that God hates a false weight, and that
dealt with the merchants, the merchants that would load rocks
in the scales or modify the scale so that you
were you thought you were getting more, therefore you paid more,
but they weren't. How is that any different? Because very
(08:18):
rarely does that get passed passed along to the client.
And so you got to keep those things in mind.
How you're making the money and at what cost. You
don't want to do it, participate in anything illegal, because
then it's for not doesn't glorify God. So your only
reward is that money at the end of the day. Jake,
(08:43):
Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
I have a two part questions for you here, sort
of a response to Tom Okay who.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Had called earlier in regards to UH forfeiting his pastoral
stance by having an affair.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Okay, what qualifies a person to be a pastor and
how does one know when they are called?
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Well, I think you have, you know, an urgency in
your heart and in your spirit to do the things
of God first and foremost. They say that that man
is ordained by God, and that's recognized by man. So
it's not the other way around where people feel like, well,
like a church has to say, Okay, you're led to
(09:31):
do this, not the truth. If you feel moved to
to preach or to teach in that context, the first
you'd imagine, the first start would be of that particular
path would be to study to go to school, to
you know, audit classes, do it on your own, whatever
(09:53):
it is, but to study and to show yourself approved
in the knowledge first. The same way if you said,
you know what, I really want to be a carpenter, well,
first learn how to be a carpenter and study that.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
The reason I called to get your opinion on it
is because I'm I'm very very conflicted about this. So well,
how to put it. Let's see, I grew up in
church in a fundamental you know, literal interpretation, not legalistic,
(10:34):
but fundamentalist church, and so I believe the Bible as
it is written, and I also believe that being behind
the pulpit is Yes, it is a high calling, and
it's an honor and a privilege and also carrious with
it a great responsibility. As you were saying, you have
to be beyond reproach.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Absolutely, So what's your concern.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
I am not beyond reproach. I mean, you know, I'm not.
I'm married, you know, But.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
As far as have you had an affair? Yeah, okay,
well it's not it's they're specifics that it's talking about
in that it's not just about it to be a
beyond reproach doesn't mean stop being a human being being
something superhuman. That wasn't my point with Tom either. My
(11:25):
point was that Tom specifically, well, he was a pastor,
had an affair on his wife, and you don't get
to be a pastor anymore. But if you are saying
that there are things that you need to work out
in your life, will work them out, you know, make them,
work through them, and and make yourself a whole as
you stand before God. But it doesn't mean that everything
(11:47):
you preach you're going to be excellent at. You're just
you're not. You're dealing with the perfection in the Word
of God. There was a specific situation though, about being
the husband of one one wife and above reproach means
within reason, an understandable reason, uh, in your life. And
(12:08):
if you can't do that, then then no, it's probably
not the best thing for you. Being called to ministry.
There's a lot of people that are called the ministry
and you hear all kinds of different stories. Oh, I
had this this moment and it's like, well, how do
you how I read these signs that in my life?
(12:31):
What do they mean? Where does God want me? What
would he have me do? Well? Scripture is very specific
about being called to that particular part as overseer. It says,
an overseer then must be above reproach, the husband of
one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not
(12:53):
addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, uncontentious, for from
the love of money. He must be one who manages
his own household well, keeping his children under control with
all dignity. But all of these things point to part
(13:15):
of that calling. And I know sometimes there's a certain
glittery appeal to being in these positions of power. And
sometimes people go, gosh, I want to be this, or
I want to be an actor, I want to be
a writer, I want to be this, whatever it might be.
Sometimes if there's a position of authority, it becomes it has,
(13:37):
you know, a sex appeal to it, where where you're
engaged by it just because of the position, and you
have to kind of check that and vet that and
make sure that that's not part of the equation. Well,
I speak well, and I talk very good, and I
do this, and I do all these things, and that
may not matter to God. There's been times where there
were people that did not speak well in scripture, and
(14:01):
you know, Moses kept trying to push that off and say, uh,
you know what, you may be my brother because I
don't speak so good and really don't have a way
with people. And it's like no, I say you. So,
it's not about that, not just about those things. It's
about finding something that you're so compelled to do that
it presses you to want to be better as a
(14:23):
human being, and that that plays a part it. They're
just you meet people that just are different, They just
don't have those desires and check themselves a little differently
than you do, and them being in a place of
leadership makes the most sense. You don't want to put
yourself in a position that you can't handle because it
(14:43):
will end up swallowing you and taking down the faith
with it, and that's not what I want. Gracie. Welcome
to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
Yes, how you doing good?
Speaker 1 (14:56):
How can I help you? Gracy?
Speaker 4 (14:58):
Well, I wanted to ask question. Its something about marriaging. Okay,
because I have a stepfather that sixty five years old.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Okay, turned down your radio in the back there, Racy,
will you turned down the radio on the back there,
Dear Okay. I'm sure you've never heard anybody on the
radio tell you that before, but I appreciate it now,
thank you. Okay.
Speaker 4 (15:22):
Well, he's sixty five, I'm fifty three.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
Back in the eighties, by seventy nine till ninety nine,
he was with my mother and he wasn't married to
her or anything, but he was living with her. He
took care of her. They lived together for twenty five years,
I guess, and she passed away. So I haven't seen
(15:48):
him for about five or six years until he decided
to come back. He was living with my brother before.
But now he's telling me that he's interested in me,
he wants to make a.
Speaker 5 (16:00):
Life with me.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
But I don't think it's I don't feel comfortable. She
is my mother, she was my best friend, she's my love.
She was everything to me. You know.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
That's that's it. You don't feel comfortable with that, That's
that's the biggest response you have to that.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
Yes, And I don't feel like it's right because I'm
a Catholic. Well, I'm a spiritual Catholic, and I believe
that if her spirit is floating around and she's with seven,
she watches everything and everything that we do is say,
you know, I just.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Don't feel like what is what does spiritual Catholic mean.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
That her angel is watching over us and looking over us?
And I feel that if I do something like that
to my own mother that would make me she will punish, well,
not her, but I feel like I would.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Be punnished for doing first of all, But Catholics don't
teach that people become angels. But having said that, let's
let's look at at the response. You should be more
flipped out about this than you are. Thanks you're going
on doesn't sit right with me, and I feel like
I might be punished. Are all the wrong answers, And
(17:09):
you should be disgusted by this on its face, and
and and and you actually told enough about the the
circumstances leading up to this that shows you the type
of man this is. And what's your what your mom
brought into her home and into your life? Uh, this
was a man who was noncommitted to begin with, who
(17:30):
didn't want to commit and merely lived with your mom,
and then you know, lived with your brother and now
sniffing around your your part of town seeing if you're
interested not a good person. Oh, I'm I'm sorry to
(17:50):
be the one to have to tell you that, but.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
They wanted to hear the whole.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
But you should just be disgusted by it. We covered
that if I.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
Do something like that, that would be my disgusting city
that I would.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Have insite me because it's disgusting. Now, it doesn't mean
there haven't been circumstances that happen in life that socially
somebody might say is, oh, this is you know, unacceptable,
but biblically, there's not a problem with it. What I'm
saying is that your particular, your particular specific context that
you told me about. I'm not sure why you're not
(18:28):
more flipped out about it. I am more concerned.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
I am, but then I am I feel sorry for him,
But then I don't feel like I should do anything
like that with him.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
You should run, not walk, to the nearest exit. You
shouldn't have this man in your life at all, and
tell him that that he's made you feel uncomfortable if
that is the case, and that that you don't wish
to have any contact with him. Leave it at that, Okay, okay, yes,
and say good night, Gracie, good night, all right, thank you?
(19:04):
That the important thing there is to have the ability
the discernmant to see when people are using you or
being predatory. Now I this this man hasn't called in,
so he's not here to defend himself. We're going strictly
on the story, but on the on the story as
it stands. I know that people fall in love with
(19:26):
one another for different reasons, but in this case, it's
obvious that you can look around and say, here is
somebody who was with your mother for a long period time,
didn't even marry her, and now he's coming around looking
at you. That's odd. He should have the same feelings.
I mean, there could be misplaced feelings. That's that's normal,
(19:47):
misplaced feelings that you remind me of your mother. I
was so in love with her. The way you laugh,
your appearance, certain things about you, these types of things
you too. To have those feelings normal, but to understand
them in their context and to say this is not
(20:08):
okay and not appropriate to pursue would be where you
come in as an adult and say this is not okay.
So on both sides, as the daughter and as the
pretend husband, that it's not okay, and it brings a
lot of a lot of ugliness into the situation. That's
(20:33):
I don't know why you wouldn't just cut that off
and say no, I'm disgusted that you'd even ask me
that or pursue me like that. I love and I
miss my mother, and I know you meant something to her.
You do not mean that to me, and I prefer
that we don't have any contact. I don't know what's
so difficult about that, that kind of running your toes
in the sand, going well, maybe this or maybe that.
(20:57):
And the guy's been gone for five or six years,
so it's not like there was a relationship that was
built up and now you're curious about exploring it. It's
it had died and now it comes back and going hey, maybe,
I don't know. I would just expected a whole different
response out of that one. I expected a more upset, angry,
(21:19):
frustrated response. Okay, Don, welcome to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 5 (21:37):
Thank you, Savior.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
How are you, Don?
Speaker 5 (21:41):
I'm pretty good, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
What's going on?
Speaker 5 (21:43):
Well, I'm very much in love and in fact engaged
to a Muslim girl. And my preacher tells me that
in the Bible it says to yoke myself with a
non believer. I have a friend in church that told
(22:10):
me that he read and I can't remember where he said,
but that it was okay. I'm just kind of paraphrasing
this that it's okay as long as you're trying to
lead her to Christ, lead her to you.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Well, that's a and both of those conclusions I think
are based on their own biased So I will tell
you this. Yeah, scripture talks about being unequally yoked, but
it's not talking about marriage. I know a lot of
people put that in there, but it's not specifically talking
(22:49):
about marriage and relationships in context. Well, not necessarily, because
there's more to it than that. And yes, you should
be seeking the salvation of others by being a wonderful
example and sharing your faith when asked about the hope
that lies within you. Yes, but in addition to that,
pragmatically both with your faith and with your life. To
(23:13):
be involved with somebody of a differing faith can be
a huge problem. Now, if you guys are more seasoned
in your citizenry and you're not going to have children,
it becomes less of a problem.
Speaker 5 (23:29):
Yes, well we're pastor. She has a daughter thirteen, but
we don't have plans to have any children. And I'm
I'm sixty three and she's forty four.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Okay, so that's not what you're seeking. There's a major
age discrepancy. Why is there so much distance in the age?
Speaker 5 (23:53):
Pardon me?
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Why are you so much older than she?
Speaker 5 (23:57):
Well, we met in a nursing home that I was
in for a short while, and we were attracted to
each other and it's been we've been in a ongoing
relationship for over two years now.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Okay, So where do you connect? I mean, where is
that part that you connect If it's not the age,
I mean, you don't have the same references growing up.
If it's not the faith, where are you connecting to her?
To each other?
Speaker 5 (24:31):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Is it just physical? You like the way she looks?
She makes you laugh?
Speaker 5 (24:36):
Oh no, no, no, no no, It's much deeper than that.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Okay, But in what context If it's not your faith
and it's not your upbringing references because you're brought.
Speaker 5 (24:46):
Up, it's like we can almost read each other's minds.
She's also somewhat of a caregiver to me. Not a lot.
I don't require a lot.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Okay, but are you sure you haven't fallen in love?
With that concept of somebody that's taking care of you.
Speaker 5 (25:09):
I've so searched about that very question.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Well, that means that it's something of great importance.
Speaker 5 (25:16):
And I haven't been or I haven't felt closer and
as much in love with anyone in my life as
I am with her.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Okay, But we started out this program with John seven
twenty four, and that's stop judging by mere appearances and
make the right judgment. So that's not necessarily on just
the things you feel or see or think, well, this
appears to be this way. I appear to have these feelings,
and that's and I don't want to belittle them. I
understand love is a wonderful thing and that it, but
(25:53):
it makes it clouds people's judgment and vision. Sometimes I
think that every case is unique and that as individuals
you're not going to be having children. Then that leaves
the child rearing out of the equation, and that's where
it becomes the biggest problem. However, when you start having
(26:14):
images of and worshiping of different faiths going on inside
the house, that might be uncomfortable or one will win out.
Usually there's kind of a wrestling match, whether it's obvious
or not. So obvious and one can win out. There's
a lot of problems that go with the with the
mixed faith. So as far as getting a stamp of
(26:34):
approval on it and saying, well, God's going to condone this, No,
that's not necessarily. What's the way it's going to go down? However,
you're not sinning necessarily by being with somebody of a
different faith, nor are you sinning to marry someone of
a different faith. The sinning comes, that's good to know.
Speaker 5 (26:53):
That's comforting.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Well, it's only comforting in as much as you practice that.
If it takes you away from your faith at all,
if it distracts you from your faith, if it makes
you veer away from any of your practices or understanding,
then yes, it becomes sinning.
Speaker 5 (27:10):
No, I will tell you Jesus that just about the
opposite has occurred. My faith has grown stronger because she
has agreed to go with me to church.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
And are you going to go with her and pray
as well?
Speaker 5 (27:36):
To her church?
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Not a church?
Speaker 5 (27:38):
But yes, her she doesn't attend.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Okay, so she may not be someone of a particularly
strong faith.
Speaker 5 (27:50):
No, but people just she's Indonesian, and it's just that's
what she was brought up with.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Okay, well, there's going to be different variables that are
going to change this situation, and now we don't have
time to go through every single one of them. So
I want to give you kind of an outline, and
the outline is to protect yourself and to protect your faith.
That if you've fallen in love with somebody, and I
hear these terms all the time about oh I've fallen
in love or I've never had this experience, you can
(28:21):
move forward. You have free will to move forward in
any of those things as a Christian, as a human being,
as an American. The thing you need to protect is
your faith. People do change when they get married. Sometimes
the faith can be bolstered by someone of the opposite
faith reminds you of why you believe, and sometimes not.
(28:41):
And she may not be that interested in her faith now,
but maybe she will be later and it may become
a problem. So you just need to know going into
these things. I know a lot of people would it'd
be easier if it was just a sin flat out,
but really, when it's talking about being unequally yoked, it's
talking about not intertwining. I know, on a daily basis,
with people in a way that's going to drag you down,
(29:05):
And you could absolutely apply that to marriage. But to
say that marroring somebody of a different faith or something
like that is a sin, you're not necessarily going to
find that in scripture. People may twist things to say that,
but it's not super productive. If you have children, it
can be a horrible problem and it takes its toll.
There's enough problems in marriage as it is, and enough
(29:28):
difficulties that you have to figure your way around and
negotiate that. To add this to the equation can just
be more problems than you think it is once you're
in it. KFI AM six forty on demand
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