January 27, 2025 • 30 mins
Why Do the Innocent Suffer
can shamanism mix with christianity
sister and whole family alcholic. will she get to heaven
forgiveness vs reconcilliation
can shamanism mix with christianity
sister and whole family alcholic. will she get to heaven
forgiveness vs reconcilliation
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to KFI AM sixty on demand.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Joshua, Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
My lord, Hello, I have been a student of yours
for forty years, and I have one question for you.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
There's one thing that challenges my pay and that is
the suffering of the innocent.
Speaker 4 (00:20):
Okay, well, that that weighs on a lot of people, obviously,
But tooth academically, it's it's easier to look at and
I know that when you're going through pain, or when
you see a child dying or something like this, that
it becomes a whole different question with emotions involved.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
But if you're looking.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
Strictly, strictly with scripture, there is no one innocent. For one,
there's no such thing as an innocent. Scripture says that
all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
Speaker 5 (00:52):
All.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
It doesn't say everyone except this group or everyone that
group now innocent by human standards. Becomes kind of contest
of well, I'm not as bad as that person, so
it stops being innocent, and it's it, it starts being
well less guilty than the last person. Now, having said that,
that's theologically and academically looking at you know what innocence is. Uh,
(01:18):
And there's oftentimes and you may have heard this on
the program that if you go and you listen to
the program, you'll hear people call up and say, well,
this happened to me, and why bad things keep happening
to me? And you spend enough time and you start
to unravel them, and.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
You'll see where.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Where you play a larger part and the things that
go on in your life than you think. Now everybody
blames God, but really you you sit there and drink
broken glass and then complain to God that you have
blood in your stool, there's an issue. It's really Uh,
it's really about the things that you do in your
life as well as being in a world with others
(01:54):
that do wrong. So you can, for instance, be a
wonderful driver and you know, play by the rules, and
someone else can drink and t bone you when you're
in an intersection and cause harm or death. So what
you do in this life reflects on others as well. Now,
(02:15):
all of those things are really by human standards. When
people say, well it's not fair or how can bad
things happen? Well, really, the concept of bad is defined
by what has to be defined outside of just what
your desire of good and bad is, because it has
to be bigger than that. There are some people that
(02:36):
think that it's okay to harm children. Well, it's not
okay to harm children. Why because God says it's not
okay to harm children. And there needs to be a
transcendent law giver that's above all those things to begin with,
from what you can even judge what good and bad is.
So these standards that you're using, in one sense, are
(02:56):
God's standards. You're saying this is right or this is wrong,
and the bad things are happening. But also God says
that there are times where there are things in your
life that you may think are bad. There's a lot
of things that come with pain in life. The hedonistic
belief system was that that which felt good was good
and that which felt bad was bad. But you know
(03:18):
in this world that not everything that feels bad is
bad and not everything that feels good is good. So
you start looking at the standard differently and how it
plays a part in your life. You know, the sweat
of your brow when you're working could be tiresome or painful,
but it's productive and helpful.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Saying if you work out.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
When you work out, you're actually tearing your muscles apart
and letting them grow back together. It feels like destruction.
And there's all kinds of things in your life that
don't feel good or may seem bad that aren't. Now
when truly horrible things happen, everyone looks at the person
that they perceive to be innocent and says, this person
(04:02):
didn't deserve it. However, you need to look at the
other person that's causing it or the other things that
are going on, to see what decisions were made there
in inflicting that on someone else. If everyone went by
the will of God, there wouldn't be any of those.
Sure there would be hurricanes, there would be earthquakes and
(04:23):
things like that, but those still have ecological purpose on
this earth. What doesn't have ecological purpose is creating higher towers,
or living closer together, or all kinds of things that
actually cause problems and not just necessarily natural disasters. So
(04:44):
really it's about understanding that this is not the best world,
but the best way to the best possible world, which
is Heaven. Terry, Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 5 (04:58):
Good morning, Hi. I have a life situation going on
right now, what's going on? I have a sixty five
year old sister who's been alcoholics since were teenagers. She
married mid thirties to an alcoholic. He's now mid seventies,
just getting out of detox today. Actually, they had twin
girls who are now twenty eight. Both of them are alcoholics.
(05:20):
Oh boy, they're also down and out. Okay, my husband
and I just hear a little history. Took these girls
in when they were three. These guys got them back
when they were ten, so that was just holy help. Anyway,
my sister's on her deathbed now and the girls, of course,
are devastated, and she's my rock. I mean, it's just far.
(05:41):
But my question to you is you are all forgiving? Correct?
Do you take her to heaven? And my other question
is these girls, one of them can't walk and refusing
all medical treatment and I mean we even got her
into the ear with the doctor. Bottom line, she refused
any test. So I feel completely helpless with them. So
(06:03):
between those two questions, maybe you can help me.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
Wow, well, there's a lot going on there. That is
the death depending death of your sister involved. Is the
alcohol involved in that?
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Oh yes?
Speaker 5 (06:15):
Completely? Heart attack? Several struggles. Now she's just emaciated completely well,
a wheelchair bound for the last three years, but drank
until the day she went. As far as I.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
Know, as far as forgiveness, God forgives all, but only
reconciles with those that reconcile with God. So there is
a difference between forgiveness and reconciliation. You can forgive somebody,
but it doesn't mean you reconcile. You can forgive something
that does somebody something horrible to you, doesn't mean you
let them back into your home. Forgiveness is for you,
(06:47):
not for the person you're forgiving.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
So in.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
You know, human human case, in God's case, God forgives
because it's righteous and just to those that ask.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
So when it comes to.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
Her, you know final place is she going to be
in heaven? That depends on where her heart is and
if she's received me in her life. And it's not
if you're asking, does somebody in the state of sin.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Not go to heaven?
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Well, everybody is in a state of some kind of
sin when they die, So it's a matter of where
they are in their life and their heart specifically, not
just the circumstances or the things they've brought on and
God judges those things in context, and it's not some
sort of, you know, some sort of gray scale where
(07:40):
it's like, I'm sorry, if you just rank you know,
this much less you'd get in. It's not about that.
It's about where someone's heart is and have they received
And in this particular case, when it comes to addiction,
it's not the traditional act of rebellion where somebody can
stop and doesn't. This is something that has a foothold.
(08:01):
It's given the enemy a foothold. So first and foremost
you have to not you have to trust God for that.
Continue to pray, pray with her, to be available to her,
and to ask her outright if you'd like and say,
you know, where's your heart with God? If you'd like
to get her better equipped for that. As far as
(08:22):
the children are concerned, if they're in a state where
everyone in their life, in their immediate family is in
this state of you know, disrepair, completely falling apart due
to alcohol, and they still don't see a need for it,
they're going to be a tough nut to crack to
try and get them to see their need for help.
(08:46):
The best thing you can do in times like that
is just not be a negative support, and that is
somebody who just in your desire to show love to
family members or loved ones when they're going through things.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Sometimes people do the wrong things.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
They give them money when they shouldn't be giving them money,
or sometimes even giving them shelter when they don't need shelter,
because really they're just using it as a place of
stops in between doing what they're doing. So it becomes
difficult for you to weed out terry and to kind
of filter as to what is the best thing to
do and how you can help them, but never do
(09:26):
anything that would perpetuate their illness or somehow.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Continue them down that path.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
You have to do things that are going to keep
them away or direct them away from those things, and that's.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Going to be difficult. Sherry, Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show. Hi,
Jesus Hi.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
I have a question about the practice of shamanism. Is
that mutually exclusive to Christianity.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
Yeah, Shamanism and Christianity in their purest forms not mix.
And unfortunately a lot of times people adhere to certain
things and then they become Christians and well they're new Christians,
they kind of continue to do everything they were doing anyways,
but call themselves Christians, and so throughout the centuries, actually
(10:18):
this has taken place and created whole new belief systems
because people kind of were either forced to be Christians
or socially were Christians or whatever, and they adapt all
these other things. Well, the Shamanism takes many different forms,
way too many for us to actually get into any
real detail on the program, but they adhere to some
(10:40):
things that absolutely would be Christian healing. You know, doing
spiritual healings is not opposed to Christianity or vice versa.
Shamans believe they can communicate with the spirit world Christians
can pray to God. So there might be similarities where
people would go, Oh, they don't really contradict. The shaman
(11:02):
believes in the supernatural, believes all these things. But they
also deal with images of animals, dealing with omens and
spirit guides and all these things. They deal with trances,
putting people into trances for all kinds of reasons, or
these vision quest type things that would completely contradict stuff
(11:25):
that takes place in scripture or what scripture calls you
to do. Is there some reason this pops up in
your life?
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Well, I'm an anthropology student and I have an interest
in shamanism, and as far as trances go, I'm also
a massage therapist, and so I'm really interested in the
healing arts, the healing aspects of shamanism. And when I
think when people when you give massages, it induces a
(11:53):
trans white state for a somatic therapy.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
Okay, you're you're kind of stretching, because one could be
an actual physiological response to what's going on and where
shamanism is talking specifically, and sometimes even using drugs or
what Scripture refers to as sorcery translates from the word
pharmacia in the Greek. It actually means it's where you
(12:17):
get the word pharmacy. Now, a lot of the sorcery
or those types of vision quest things in Scripture were
provoked by the use of drugs and stimulants, different than
a physical reaction to being put in a RESTful state.
Because Scripture also talks about proper meditation as well. So
there's times of meditation, or there's times with connecting with
(12:39):
God or spiritual things, fasting, prayer, all these things. Okay,
I'll put to you this way. For the lack of time,
is that there's going to be similarities in things, but
it doesn't make them compatible. For instance, in logic, they
call this category informal logical fallacies when things don't mix
(13:02):
right logically. For instance, all cops carry guns. Does that
mean that everyone that carries a gun is a cop.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
No. So, although there's going.
Speaker 4 (13:13):
To be similarities between Shamanism and Christianity, and there are
spiritual aspects to the both of them, and there's good things,
and there's healing, there's things like that, they aren't really compatible.
There are similarities and in part of the quests and
some of the attributes, but they ultimately in their truest form,
do not mix. One is going to be watered down
(13:35):
or changed completely for you to be able to interchange them.
Shamanism is I think it's wonderful that you're studying it,
and as an anthropology student, I think it's a fascinating study.
But it as far as melding completely with Christianity or
your Christianity, it doesn't work that way. And I know
that in this takes place a lot in school. This
(13:56):
is one of the important things about going to college,
and going to school is exciting diffferent parts of your
interests and curiosities. But what ends up happening is if
something becomes sexy or interesting and people try and cram
it into their belief system, and that doesn't always work.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
There are some things, like.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
You know, that you could practice that wouldn't cause a problem,
but something like this in its truest form, absolutely would. Flora,
Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 6 (14:27):
Hi, good morning, Hi.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
How can I help you?
Speaker 5 (14:31):
I have a.
Speaker 6 (14:33):
Dilemma with a family situation. I have a nineteen year
old who has a friend that I'm not very I
don't want to be judgmental, but I don't feel he's
a good influence on my son, and it situation is
getting awkward.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
Okay, well tell me about the kid.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Why don't you like the kid?
Speaker 6 (14:59):
Okay, about twenty three years old. He's been incarcerated twice.
I'm not sure what the first time was for, but
I know the second time was for stealing a car. Okay,
that's no, it's not And I just don't I just
(15:19):
don't think he's a good influence on my son. I
think he he is trouble. But if the situation got
awkward because yesterday we were out and my step son
invited him over while we were gone, and he knows
he's not supposed to have friends over were out. So
(15:40):
this young man was outside our home talking to him
when we arrived, and so I immediately told him that,
you know, he needed to tell his ask his friend
to leave. And so my husband was kind of upset
with me because I guess he was in there.
Speaker 5 (16:00):
That I was.
Speaker 6 (16:01):
So I said it openly and his he feels that
I should give this kid a chance, and I don't.
And I don't know at what point do you say, Okay,
this person is not good, I don't want them around,
or we need to give you know, as Christians, we
need to not be judgmental and see, you know, if
(16:24):
this kid's going to change. So that's my dilemma. I
don't know how to handle it. I don't know. I
don't know what to do.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
You know, it's interesting, you there's a judicial system where
people are incarcerated from time to time, and the frustration
is that people do their time and they're supposed to
be let out and the system is supposed to say
that they're ready to come back into society, but no
one seems to want to let them do So, Okay,
(16:56):
and I get that. I get the reasons why, because
this system's faulty, and all too often the system puts
people back on the street because they don't have space.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Or what have you.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
I would be curious as to why he was in
jail the first time, and I would say that it's
completely legitimate for you to bring this boy over to
your home and sit him down with your son and
your husband and say, you know what, I acted kind
of short with you the other day, and I wanted
to explain myself. I would like to know more about
(17:28):
your situation, because all I know is this, and I
think that's why I reacted that way. And you're a
friend of my sons, and I want you guys to
be able to have a relationship and friendship and all
of that stuff. But this is my home and this
is my child, and I'm concerned as to why you
were in the first time and what you think you
(17:49):
learned from both of these trips to jail, and if
I can have your word that you're not going to
bring that stuff around my home and at least it
gives you an opportunity. I know it sounds like a
corny Brady Bunch moment, but but parents will do all
kinds of heavy duty lifting outside of the situation, but
(18:14):
nothing that is uncomfortable inside. So instead of going, okay,
and we're going to chain down our son, take away
his phone, do all these things so he now he's
in prison so that he can't have contact, it's face
it and then see if you get a reading, an
honest reading, not just of wow, it's scary because the
guy's been to jail because nobody was an angel. Now,
(18:37):
I'm not saying everybody had to steal a car and
that's not, you know, a great thing to have done. However,
I do know people who have stolen cars in their
youth and are perfectly wonderful people that you would invite
to your home. Okay, so I think that your initial
(18:58):
reaction is a wonderful one, one of protection for your home.
I'm curious as to why your husband is your husband
pretty relaxed about the situation.
Speaker 6 (19:09):
Well, I kind of feel that that that is another
underlying family issue. I kind of feel like he's comfortable
with letting me be the bad guy, and he sits
back and.
Speaker 4 (19:23):
Allows me.
Speaker 6 (19:24):
You know, he he doesn't like conflict, so especially you
see if that's the dilemma with blended families. Also, he
doesn't like to have conflict with my step son because
he's always he's always uh holding that guilt that he
doesn't want to alienate him because he didn't really he
(19:47):
wasn't with his son, he didn't really raise him. So
now that they have a relationship, as you know, he's older,
but the guilt is always there. So he does not
like to have conflict with him. And and I honestly,
I think then he he wants to avoid it, so
he allows me to be.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
The Well, technically, technically you're the parent, and so that's
a whole different layer of you know, confusion and frustration.
So technically you are the disciplinarian in this context. Also,
just to shed a little light on how males work,
(20:29):
and a lot of women don't understand this, is that
men women fight differently than men. Women fight emotionally, and
if you're honest with yourself, you know that that women
will fight emotionally with one another.
Speaker 6 (20:44):
I have to agree that I do my I'm right
off the cuff, I'm you know exactly where I'm coming
from exactly.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
And that's that's it's a wonderful trait actually, and men
tend to learn at a very young age that the
slightest thing can get go to fisticuffs or a physical
altercation immediately as young boys. They learn that young girls
won't sit there necessarily pull hair and go through all
(21:12):
that stuff on the playground, but boys will scrap and
throw things and punch each other in the face at
a very young age. And so a lot of men
come across to their wives sometimes as being laxadaisical, or
lazy or too relaxed about certain situations, whereas a lot
of men know they're just kind of balancing it saying,
(21:33):
you know what, I have a first gear and I
have a sixth gear, and I will go from zero
point one into a physical altercation because that's the world
that I was taught as a boy. That always, no
matter what, even if you try and rationalize it and go, well,
you know what and be diplomatic, boys will throw punches.
And that doesn't happen in most cases to women. And
(21:57):
so a lot of times women don't understand that, and
they'll go they'll run up to somebody in a public
situation start yelling, and the man's like, honey, honey, stand down,
stand down. Because the man, because a woman's going, no
one's gonna sit, you know, haul off and punch me.
And it's good that you don't think that the world
shouldn't be that way, but the guy is going. You
(22:18):
know what, this can go from you being upset because
someone pushed you to an all out brawl with police
involved in one second once a man gets involved. So
sometimes men tend to be a little too relaxed because
of the fear and concern the way they were brought up.
Always things can go from zero to sixty because now
(22:41):
when men get involved, now it becomes a pride issue
and you know, testecular fortitude comes in and you know,
are you saying that I'm a wimp and all this
stuff and it gets blown out of proportion. So sometimes
that affects it. But really truth is, he didn't raise
the boy, but you are the parent in this circumstance,
(23:03):
and what you say goes now. He needs to support
you as your husband to give you the strength and
the tools you need. So in this case, I think
confronting the situation head on and being reasonable with this
twenty something year old and saying, you.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Know, you come in my house.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
I have fears and concerns, and you've got to understand that,
and he'll probably probably will go yeah, absolutely, So I
just want to know who you are, and you know
how long? If have they known each other all of
these things and asked that said, okay, well, you know,
we'd be happy to have you around in this context.
But if I hear anything, I'm going to put an
(23:47):
end to it. And not because I'm trying to be
the lord of all, but because I care very much
about my son. And learn about his parents if you can,
and as much as you can, and make decisions based
on the whole pick. Sure, I know it's scary proposition,
but know all the information first and then make a
decision as to what you're going to do. Jim, Welcome
(24:13):
to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Someone has committed just toy, Someone has committed a mortal
sin like suicide.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Does that mean that like it's pointless to even pray
for them in hell? Or if they did commit a
mortal sin, maybe like one second before they passed away
they repented. Does that make any difference? Is it there
gone forever and it's no point even thinking about them?
What are your thoughts?
Speaker 4 (24:39):
Well, you have to kind of argue depending on where
you're standing. Protestants would have a different point of view
than Catholics most certainly, so there's doctrine involved as well.
But I would say this that there is no reason
to think that there is not something very intimate going
on between man and God that in what you would
(25:01):
call a second could be an eternity outside of this world,
and everyone gets a proper opportunity to accept or reject God.
It's not based on ignorance. It's either you accept or
you reject knowingly. And when it comes to suicide, it's
one of those very ugly things because it's the last
(25:23):
act of freedom that abolishes all other acts of freedom.
It's a well, it's a crime. It's a crime against
the gift of God, most certainly. Now, this is not
to belittle the pain of people that contemplate as many
many do, or to belittle the pains that go on
(25:44):
in the world that make people frustrated or want to
leave this planet. But what it is is to look
at this act and see that there is nothing Sadly,
many people think of suicide because they're trying to themselves
of pain, but really suicide doesn't end pain. It merely
(26:04):
pushes it off to the people that are living. And
so there's no way to eradicate that you work through pain,
you don't. There's no way to really eradicate it in
that sense, which is said.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
What about purgatory with someone like that, go to purgatory
or I know, I think that's more of a Catholic doctrina.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Most certainly purgatory.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
But do most faiths in Christian in the Christian religion
believe in purgatory or is it just something that was
established out of.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
From theologians purgatory.
Speaker 4 (26:38):
Purgatory is a sticky one because there are different belief systems,
most certainly, and there are things that maybe the Protestants
would say, yes, I believe that there's this period here,
whereas Catholics might say, no, it's a it's a literal
place going through the purification process. The problem with many
of these views is that it adds an asterisk to
(27:00):
the death on the cross, so it's well, is there,
what's the payment? And one of the things I said
at the very very end on the cross is to
tell usty and through you know, contortions of translation and
understanding of the term it gets translated into the end,
(27:21):
it is finished, paid in full, all these different things,
but ultimately it sounds vinal. So there are many that
wrestle with that concept. And there are some concepts of
purgatory that are kind of with a small p that
may fit into scripture, and there are others that may not.
Outside of that, I want you to think about your
(27:43):
main question and that as if someone commits this sin
of suicide, and this suicide is self murder, can one
still pray for them? And one would have to go
to scripture and see that Scripture says that it's appointed
for man to die once and then the judgment, So
really to be praying for them is at the point
(28:06):
of where they're being judged, is really an act of
individual preference. Then it is something in scripture that says
this is what you should be doing. You should always
trust God and know Jim that God has a plan
that you could not even fathom, and that anyone who
has the opportunity to receive will make that choice with
(28:28):
the best of who they are, and God knows that.
And there are things that could take place in the moments.
One of the reason why many in the Christian faith
in different denominations feel that suicide is the unpardonable sin
is because there's no way to repent from it, there's
no way to turn away from that. But you could
(28:50):
argue that about murder too.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
You can't. Can't.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
You could stop murdering, but you can't unmurder somebody that
you murdered. So I think that there's there is room
for argument that in those moments what seem like seconds,
as somebody passes, even by their own hand, that God
is in communication with them, and that during that process
(29:12):
God can absolutely reach out and to be with that individual.
Having said that, I will state over and over the
obvious on this program that suicide is obviously frowned upon
by God.
Speaker 6 (29:33):
It is.
Speaker 4 (29:35):
An ugly, the ugliest returning of a gift that you
could possibly imagine or conjure, and to look on in
the face and say thank you, no, thank you, can
be a horrible and ugly act of rebellion. And as
(29:55):
this show has had the pleasure of coming across people
who have once thought those things and now we'll write
emails and keep in contact, that they're no longer in
that state. And we say here over and over again
that we call them life circum circumstances, because they do change.
(30:16):
Is that often those things do change. And as we
say over and over that if you don't wait for
the end of the movie, you don't get the happy ending.
Love one another to day, go out and be kind
to each other, and remember, although we only have this
little time together each Sunday. More importantly than all the
craziness these words.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
I Am with You
Speaker 1 (30:39):
Always, KF I am six forty on demand
You're listening to KFI AM sixty on demand.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Joshua, Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
My lord, Hello, I have been a student of yours
for forty years, and I have one question for you.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
There's one thing that challenges my pay and that is
the suffering of the innocent.
Speaker 4 (00:20):
Okay, well, that that weighs on a lot of people, obviously,
But tooth academically, it's it's easier to look at and
I know that when you're going through pain, or when
you see a child dying or something like this, that
it becomes a whole different question with emotions involved.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
But if you're looking.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
Strictly, strictly with scripture, there is no one innocent. For one,
there's no such thing as an innocent. Scripture says that
all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
Speaker 5 (00:52):
All.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
It doesn't say everyone except this group or everyone that
group now innocent by human standards. Becomes kind of contest
of well, I'm not as bad as that person, so
it stops being innocent, and it's it, it starts being
well less guilty than the last person. Now, having said that,
that's theologically and academically looking at you know what innocence is. Uh,
(01:18):
And there's oftentimes and you may have heard this on
the program that if you go and you listen to
the program, you'll hear people call up and say, well,
this happened to me, and why bad things keep happening
to me? And you spend enough time and you start
to unravel them, and.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
You'll see where.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Where you play a larger part and the things that
go on in your life than you think. Now everybody
blames God, but really you you sit there and drink
broken glass and then complain to God that you have
blood in your stool, there's an issue. It's really Uh,
it's really about the things that you do in your
life as well as being in a world with others
(01:54):
that do wrong. So you can, for instance, be a
wonderful driver and you know, play by the rules, and
someone else can drink and t bone you when you're
in an intersection and cause harm or death. So what
you do in this life reflects on others as well. Now,
(02:15):
all of those things are really by human standards. When
people say, well it's not fair or how can bad
things happen? Well, really, the concept of bad is defined
by what has to be defined outside of just what
your desire of good and bad is, because it has
to be bigger than that. There are some people that
(02:36):
think that it's okay to harm children. Well, it's not
okay to harm children. Why because God says it's not
okay to harm children. And there needs to be a
transcendent law giver that's above all those things to begin with,
from what you can even judge what good and bad is.
So these standards that you're using, in one sense, are
(02:56):
God's standards. You're saying this is right or this is wrong,
and the bad things are happening. But also God says
that there are times where there are things in your
life that you may think are bad. There's a lot
of things that come with pain in life. The hedonistic
belief system was that that which felt good was good
and that which felt bad was bad. But you know
(03:18):
in this world that not everything that feels bad is
bad and not everything that feels good is good. So
you start looking at the standard differently and how it
plays a part in your life. You know, the sweat
of your brow when you're working could be tiresome or painful,
but it's productive and helpful.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Saying if you work out.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
When you work out, you're actually tearing your muscles apart
and letting them grow back together. It feels like destruction.
And there's all kinds of things in your life that
don't feel good or may seem bad that aren't. Now
when truly horrible things happen, everyone looks at the person
that they perceive to be innocent and says, this person
(04:02):
didn't deserve it. However, you need to look at the
other person that's causing it or the other things that
are going on, to see what decisions were made there
in inflicting that on someone else. If everyone went by
the will of God, there wouldn't be any of those.
Sure there would be hurricanes, there would be earthquakes and
(04:23):
things like that, but those still have ecological purpose on
this earth. What doesn't have ecological purpose is creating higher towers,
or living closer together, or all kinds of things that
actually cause problems and not just necessarily natural disasters. So
(04:44):
really it's about understanding that this is not the best world,
but the best way to the best possible world, which
is Heaven. Terry, Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 5 (04:58):
Good morning, Hi. I have a life situation going on
right now, what's going on? I have a sixty five
year old sister who's been alcoholics since were teenagers. She
married mid thirties to an alcoholic. He's now mid seventies,
just getting out of detox today. Actually, they had twin
girls who are now twenty eight. Both of them are alcoholics.
(05:20):
Oh boy, they're also down and out. Okay, my husband
and I just hear a little history. Took these girls
in when they were three. These guys got them back
when they were ten, so that was just holy help. Anyway,
my sister's on her deathbed now and the girls, of course,
are devastated, and she's my rock. I mean, it's just far.
(05:41):
But my question to you is you are all forgiving? Correct?
Do you take her to heaven? And my other question
is these girls, one of them can't walk and refusing
all medical treatment and I mean we even got her
into the ear with the doctor. Bottom line, she refused
any test. So I feel completely helpless with them. So
(06:03):
between those two questions, maybe you can help me.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
Wow, well, there's a lot going on there. That is
the death depending death of your sister involved. Is the
alcohol involved in that?
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Oh yes?
Speaker 5 (06:15):
Completely? Heart attack? Several struggles. Now she's just emaciated completely well,
a wheelchair bound for the last three years, but drank
until the day she went. As far as I.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
Know, as far as forgiveness, God forgives all, but only
reconciles with those that reconcile with God. So there is
a difference between forgiveness and reconciliation. You can forgive somebody,
but it doesn't mean you reconcile. You can forgive something
that does somebody something horrible to you, doesn't mean you
let them back into your home. Forgiveness is for you,
(06:47):
not for the person you're forgiving.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
So in.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
You know, human human case, in God's case, God forgives
because it's righteous and just to those that ask.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
So when it comes to.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
Her, you know final place is she going to be
in heaven? That depends on where her heart is and
if she's received me in her life. And it's not
if you're asking, does somebody in the state of sin.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Not go to heaven?
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Well, everybody is in a state of some kind of
sin when they die, So it's a matter of where
they are in their life and their heart specifically, not
just the circumstances or the things they've brought on and
God judges those things in context, and it's not some
sort of, you know, some sort of gray scale where
(07:40):
it's like, I'm sorry, if you just rank you know,
this much less you'd get in. It's not about that.
It's about where someone's heart is and have they received
And in this particular case, when it comes to addiction,
it's not the traditional act of rebellion where somebody can
stop and doesn't. This is something that has a foothold.
(08:01):
It's given the enemy a foothold. So first and foremost
you have to not you have to trust God for that.
Continue to pray, pray with her, to be available to her,
and to ask her outright if you'd like and say,
you know, where's your heart with God? If you'd like
to get her better equipped for that. As far as
(08:22):
the children are concerned, if they're in a state where
everyone in their life, in their immediate family is in
this state of you know, disrepair, completely falling apart due
to alcohol, and they still don't see a need for it,
they're going to be a tough nut to crack to
try and get them to see their need for help.
(08:46):
The best thing you can do in times like that
is just not be a negative support, and that is
somebody who just in your desire to show love to
family members or loved ones when they're going through things.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Sometimes people do the wrong things.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
They give them money when they shouldn't be giving them money,
or sometimes even giving them shelter when they don't need shelter,
because really they're just using it as a place of
stops in between doing what they're doing. So it becomes
difficult for you to weed out terry and to kind
of filter as to what is the best thing to
do and how you can help them, but never do
(09:26):
anything that would perpetuate their illness or somehow.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Continue them down that path.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
You have to do things that are going to keep
them away or direct them away from those things, and that's.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Going to be difficult. Sherry, Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show. Hi,
Jesus Hi.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
I have a question about the practice of shamanism. Is
that mutually exclusive to Christianity.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
Yeah, Shamanism and Christianity in their purest forms not mix.
And unfortunately a lot of times people adhere to certain
things and then they become Christians and well they're new Christians,
they kind of continue to do everything they were doing anyways,
but call themselves Christians, and so throughout the centuries, actually
(10:18):
this has taken place and created whole new belief systems
because people kind of were either forced to be Christians
or socially were Christians or whatever, and they adapt all
these other things. Well, the Shamanism takes many different forms,
way too many for us to actually get into any
real detail on the program, but they adhere to some
(10:40):
things that absolutely would be Christian healing. You know, doing
spiritual healings is not opposed to Christianity or vice versa.
Shamans believe they can communicate with the spirit world Christians
can pray to God. So there might be similarities where
people would go, Oh, they don't really contradict. The shaman
(11:02):
believes in the supernatural, believes all these things. But they
also deal with images of animals, dealing with omens and
spirit guides and all these things. They deal with trances,
putting people into trances for all kinds of reasons, or
these vision quest type things that would completely contradict stuff
(11:25):
that takes place in scripture or what scripture calls you
to do. Is there some reason this pops up in
your life?
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Well, I'm an anthropology student and I have an interest
in shamanism, and as far as trances go, I'm also
a massage therapist, and so I'm really interested in the
healing arts, the healing aspects of shamanism. And when I
think when people when you give massages, it induces a
(11:53):
trans white state for a somatic therapy.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
Okay, you're you're kind of stretching, because one could be
an actual physiological response to what's going on and where
shamanism is talking specifically, and sometimes even using drugs or
what Scripture refers to as sorcery translates from the word
pharmacia in the Greek. It actually means it's where you
(12:17):
get the word pharmacy. Now, a lot of the sorcery
or those types of vision quest things in Scripture were
provoked by the use of drugs and stimulants, different than
a physical reaction to being put in a RESTful state.
Because Scripture also talks about proper meditation as well. So
there's times of meditation, or there's times with connecting with
(12:39):
God or spiritual things, fasting, prayer, all these things. Okay,
I'll put to you this way. For the lack of time,
is that there's going to be similarities in things, but
it doesn't make them compatible. For instance, in logic, they
call this category informal logical fallacies when things don't mix
(13:02):
right logically. For instance, all cops carry guns. Does that
mean that everyone that carries a gun is a cop.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
No. So, although there's going.
Speaker 4 (13:13):
To be similarities between Shamanism and Christianity, and there are
spiritual aspects to the both of them, and there's good things,
and there's healing, there's things like that, they aren't really compatible.
There are similarities and in part of the quests and
some of the attributes, but they ultimately in their truest form,
do not mix. One is going to be watered down
(13:35):
or changed completely for you to be able to interchange them.
Shamanism is I think it's wonderful that you're studying it,
and as an anthropology student, I think it's a fascinating study.
But it as far as melding completely with Christianity or
your Christianity, it doesn't work that way. And I know
that in this takes place a lot in school. This
(13:56):
is one of the important things about going to college,
and going to school is exciting diffferent parts of your
interests and curiosities. But what ends up happening is if
something becomes sexy or interesting and people try and cram
it into their belief system, and that doesn't always work.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
There are some things, like.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
You know, that you could practice that wouldn't cause a problem,
but something like this in its truest form, absolutely would. Flora,
Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 6 (14:27):
Hi, good morning, Hi.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
How can I help you?
Speaker 5 (14:31):
I have a.
Speaker 6 (14:33):
Dilemma with a family situation. I have a nineteen year
old who has a friend that I'm not very I
don't want to be judgmental, but I don't feel he's
a good influence on my son, and it situation is
getting awkward.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
Okay, well tell me about the kid.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Why don't you like the kid?
Speaker 6 (14:59):
Okay, about twenty three years old. He's been incarcerated twice.
I'm not sure what the first time was for, but
I know the second time was for stealing a car. Okay,
that's no, it's not And I just don't I just
(15:19):
don't think he's a good influence on my son. I
think he he is trouble. But if the situation got
awkward because yesterday we were out and my step son
invited him over while we were gone, and he knows
he's not supposed to have friends over were out. So
(15:40):
this young man was outside our home talking to him
when we arrived, and so I immediately told him that,
you know, he needed to tell his ask his friend
to leave. And so my husband was kind of upset
with me because I guess he was in there.
Speaker 5 (16:00):
That I was.
Speaker 6 (16:01):
So I said it openly and his he feels that
I should give this kid a chance, and I don't.
And I don't know at what point do you say, Okay,
this person is not good, I don't want them around,
or we need to give you know, as Christians, we
need to not be judgmental and see, you know, if
(16:24):
this kid's going to change. So that's my dilemma. I
don't know how to handle it. I don't know. I
don't know what to do.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
You know, it's interesting, you there's a judicial system where
people are incarcerated from time to time, and the frustration
is that people do their time and they're supposed to
be let out and the system is supposed to say
that they're ready to come back into society, but no
one seems to want to let them do So, Okay,
(16:56):
and I get that. I get the reasons why, because
this system's faulty, and all too often the system puts
people back on the street because they don't have space.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Or what have you.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
I would be curious as to why he was in
jail the first time, and I would say that it's
completely legitimate for you to bring this boy over to
your home and sit him down with your son and
your husband and say, you know what, I acted kind
of short with you the other day, and I wanted
to explain myself. I would like to know more about
(17:28):
your situation, because all I know is this, and I
think that's why I reacted that way. And you're a
friend of my sons, and I want you guys to
be able to have a relationship and friendship and all
of that stuff. But this is my home and this
is my child, and I'm concerned as to why you
were in the first time and what you think you
(17:49):
learned from both of these trips to jail, and if
I can have your word that you're not going to
bring that stuff around my home and at least it
gives you an opportunity. I know it sounds like a
corny Brady Bunch moment, but but parents will do all
kinds of heavy duty lifting outside of the situation, but
(18:14):
nothing that is uncomfortable inside. So instead of going, okay,
and we're going to chain down our son, take away
his phone, do all these things so he now he's
in prison so that he can't have contact, it's face
it and then see if you get a reading, an
honest reading, not just of wow, it's scary because the
guy's been to jail because nobody was an angel. Now,
(18:37):
I'm not saying everybody had to steal a car and
that's not, you know, a great thing to have done. However,
I do know people who have stolen cars in their
youth and are perfectly wonderful people that you would invite
to your home. Okay, so I think that your initial
(18:58):
reaction is a wonderful one, one of protection for your home.
I'm curious as to why your husband is your husband
pretty relaxed about the situation.
Speaker 6 (19:09):
Well, I kind of feel that that that is another
underlying family issue. I kind of feel like he's comfortable
with letting me be the bad guy, and he sits
back and.
Speaker 4 (19:23):
Allows me.
Speaker 6 (19:24):
You know, he he doesn't like conflict, so especially you
see if that's the dilemma with blended families. Also, he
doesn't like to have conflict with my step son because
he's always he's always uh holding that guilt that he
doesn't want to alienate him because he didn't really he
(19:47):
wasn't with his son, he didn't really raise him. So
now that they have a relationship, as you know, he's older,
but the guilt is always there. So he does not
like to have conflict with him. And and I honestly,
I think then he he wants to avoid it, so
he allows me to be.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
The Well, technically, technically you're the parent, and so that's
a whole different layer of you know, confusion and frustration.
So technically you are the disciplinarian in this context. Also,
just to shed a little light on how males work,
(20:29):
and a lot of women don't understand this, is that
men women fight differently than men. Women fight emotionally, and
if you're honest with yourself, you know that that women
will fight emotionally with one another.
Speaker 6 (20:44):
I have to agree that I do my I'm right
off the cuff, I'm you know exactly where I'm coming
from exactly.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
And that's that's it's a wonderful trait actually, and men
tend to learn at a very young age that the
slightest thing can get go to fisticuffs or a physical
altercation immediately as young boys. They learn that young girls
won't sit there necessarily pull hair and go through all
(21:12):
that stuff on the playground, but boys will scrap and
throw things and punch each other in the face at
a very young age. And so a lot of men
come across to their wives sometimes as being laxadaisical, or
lazy or too relaxed about certain situations, whereas a lot
of men know they're just kind of balancing it saying,
(21:33):
you know what, I have a first gear and I
have a sixth gear, and I will go from zero
point one into a physical altercation because that's the world
that I was taught as a boy. That always, no
matter what, even if you try and rationalize it and go, well,
you know what and be diplomatic, boys will throw punches.
And that doesn't happen in most cases to women. And
(21:57):
so a lot of times women don't understand that, and
they'll go they'll run up to somebody in a public
situation start yelling, and the man's like, honey, honey, stand down,
stand down. Because the man, because a woman's going, no
one's gonna sit, you know, haul off and punch me.
And it's good that you don't think that the world
shouldn't be that way, but the guy is going. You
(22:18):
know what, this can go from you being upset because
someone pushed you to an all out brawl with police
involved in one second once a man gets involved. So
sometimes men tend to be a little too relaxed because
of the fear and concern the way they were brought up.
Always things can go from zero to sixty because now
(22:41):
when men get involved, now it becomes a pride issue
and you know, testecular fortitude comes in and you know,
are you saying that I'm a wimp and all this
stuff and it gets blown out of proportion. So sometimes
that affects it. But really truth is, he didn't raise
the boy, but you are the parent in this circumstance,
(23:03):
and what you say goes now. He needs to support
you as your husband to give you the strength and
the tools you need. So in this case, I think
confronting the situation head on and being reasonable with this
twenty something year old and saying, you.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Know, you come in my house.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
I have fears and concerns, and you've got to understand that,
and he'll probably probably will go yeah, absolutely, So I
just want to know who you are, and you know
how long? If have they known each other all of
these things and asked that said, okay, well, you know,
we'd be happy to have you around in this context.
But if I hear anything, I'm going to put an
(23:47):
end to it. And not because I'm trying to be
the lord of all, but because I care very much
about my son. And learn about his parents if you can,
and as much as you can, and make decisions based
on the whole pick. Sure, I know it's scary proposition,
but know all the information first and then make a
decision as to what you're going to do. Jim, Welcome
(24:13):
to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Someone has committed just toy, Someone has committed a mortal
sin like suicide.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Does that mean that like it's pointless to even pray
for them in hell? Or if they did commit a
mortal sin, maybe like one second before they passed away
they repented. Does that make any difference? Is it there
gone forever and it's no point even thinking about them?
What are your thoughts?
Speaker 4 (24:39):
Well, you have to kind of argue depending on where
you're standing. Protestants would have a different point of view
than Catholics most certainly, so there's doctrine involved as well.
But I would say this that there is no reason
to think that there is not something very intimate going
on between man and God that in what you would
(25:01):
call a second could be an eternity outside of this world,
and everyone gets a proper opportunity to accept or reject God.
It's not based on ignorance. It's either you accept or
you reject knowingly. And when it comes to suicide, it's
one of those very ugly things because it's the last
(25:23):
act of freedom that abolishes all other acts of freedom.
It's a well, it's a crime. It's a crime against
the gift of God, most certainly. Now, this is not
to belittle the pain of people that contemplate as many
many do, or to belittle the pains that go on
(25:44):
in the world that make people frustrated or want to
leave this planet. But what it is is to look
at this act and see that there is nothing Sadly,
many people think of suicide because they're trying to themselves
of pain, but really suicide doesn't end pain. It merely
(26:04):
pushes it off to the people that are living. And
so there's no way to eradicate that you work through pain,
you don't. There's no way to really eradicate it in
that sense, which is said.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
What about purgatory with someone like that, go to purgatory
or I know, I think that's more of a Catholic doctrina.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Most certainly purgatory.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
But do most faiths in Christian in the Christian religion
believe in purgatory or is it just something that was
established out of.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
From theologians purgatory.
Speaker 4 (26:38):
Purgatory is a sticky one because there are different belief systems,
most certainly, and there are things that maybe the Protestants
would say, yes, I believe that there's this period here,
whereas Catholics might say, no, it's a it's a literal
place going through the purification process. The problem with many
of these views is that it adds an asterisk to
(27:00):
the death on the cross, so it's well, is there,
what's the payment? And one of the things I said
at the very very end on the cross is to
tell usty and through you know, contortions of translation and
understanding of the term it gets translated into the end,
(27:21):
it is finished, paid in full, all these different things,
but ultimately it sounds vinal. So there are many that
wrestle with that concept. And there are some concepts of
purgatory that are kind of with a small p that
may fit into scripture, and there are others that may not.
Outside of that, I want you to think about your
(27:43):
main question and that as if someone commits this sin
of suicide, and this suicide is self murder, can one
still pray for them? And one would have to go
to scripture and see that Scripture says that it's appointed
for man to die once and then the judgment, So
really to be praying for them is at the point
(28:06):
of where they're being judged, is really an act of
individual preference. Then it is something in scripture that says
this is what you should be doing. You should always
trust God and know Jim that God has a plan
that you could not even fathom, and that anyone who
has the opportunity to receive will make that choice with
(28:28):
the best of who they are, and God knows that.
And there are things that could take place in the moments.
One of the reason why many in the Christian faith
in different denominations feel that suicide is the unpardonable sin
is because there's no way to repent from it, there's
no way to turn away from that. But you could
(28:50):
argue that about murder too.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
You can't. Can't.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
You could stop murdering, but you can't unmurder somebody that
you murdered. So I think that there's there is room
for argument that in those moments what seem like seconds,
as somebody passes, even by their own hand, that God
is in communication with them, and that during that process
(29:12):
God can absolutely reach out and to be with that individual.
Having said that, I will state over and over the
obvious on this program that suicide is obviously frowned upon
by God.
Speaker 6 (29:33):
It is.
Speaker 4 (29:35):
An ugly, the ugliest returning of a gift that you
could possibly imagine or conjure, and to look on in
the face and say thank you, no, thank you, can
be a horrible and ugly act of rebellion. And as
(29:55):
this show has had the pleasure of coming across people
who have once thought those things and now we'll write
emails and keep in contact, that they're no longer in
that state. And we say here over and over again
that we call them life circum circumstances, because they do change.
(30:16):
Is that often those things do change. And as we
say over and over that if you don't wait for
the end of the movie, you don't get the happy ending.
Love one another to day, go out and be kind
to each other, and remember, although we only have this
little time together each Sunday. More importantly than all the
craziness these words.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
I Am with You
Speaker 1 (30:39):
Always, KF I am six forty on demand
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.