Chargers Weekly: Brandon Staley Takeaways, Intriguing Draft Prospects and More with Daniel Popper

Matt "Money" Smith and Chris Hayre are joined by The Athletic's Daniel Popper, who is in Indianapolis for the 2023 NFL Scouting Combine (00:11). The guys discuss takeaways from Brandon Staley's session with the media (00:11), the team's cap situation (01:05) and intriguing prospects at No. 21 overall (37.28).

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
As the late fifteen ten touchdown. What's up? Guys, Welcome
into an NFL Combine edition of Chargers Weekly, as always,
joined by Matt money Smith money raining here in southern California.
All the action is in Indianapolis and our guy Daniel

(00:24):
Popper on the scenes in pop. I want to ask
you about brand at Staley and everything that's going on there,
But I just saw a tweet from you regarding Keenan
Allen and his status with the Chargers, and I guess
we could just start there. Why don't you as a
leaping off point. It's just kind of detail which you tweeted. Yeah,

(00:45):
So got to meet with Tom Salasko here at the
Combine and pray he said explicitly that Keenan Allen is
not going anywhere. Obviously, there was some speculation. I think
it got a little bit overblown, just that's how meet
it works these days. But you know, the Chargers had
the possibility of cutting Keenan Allen or trading him and
saving some money against the cap. Of course, we all

(01:06):
know that they're, you know, over twenty million dollars over
the cap and they're gonna have to make some moves
here to get cap compliant by the new league year,
so you know, people are throwing out options for how
they can get there. One option was moving on from
Keenan Allen. There are a lot of other options that
they could go down, and it sounds like they're going
to take these other avenues to try and keep the
roster is close to what it was last year as
they can, because they believe they have a really good team.

(01:27):
So that's where things stand, and it's obviously good news
because Keenan Allen is a fantastic player. I think we
can all agree on that. You know, I think the
development of what's happened with wide receiver salaries, you know,
made it less likely. You know, if if wide receiver
salaries are still in that you know, twelve to eighteen
and the high end gets twenty, then yeah, I think

(01:48):
it sort of started to make sense. It's like, wow,
we've got the second highest you know earning wide receiver
and he's on the wrong side of thirty. Should we
rethink this? But looking at what it's going to cost
or a place a guy in free agent and see,
you know, now that it's gone north of twenty five,
it's sniffing thirty per year. I think that's one component. Two.
I think Herbert's a big part of this. You know,

(02:09):
when when Keenan came back, that was his guy. I mean,
it was all the targets again, it was all the
third downs again. So I think there's that that component.
And I do think, you know, there's there's an element
of sort of trust that this is gonna sound crazy,
but that I don't know if like they have with
the other wide receivers. You know, I don't want to

(02:29):
explicitly say Mike William's name, but I I think if
you were to kind of say, hey, point blank, let's
let's put him in order, I wouldn't be surprised if
Keenan came in at number one, even though we know
how explosive Mike is in those big plays. And I
think the way they look at that wide receiver room,
if you're slotting guys, I think you would probably put Keenan.
I think the team, the front office would probably put

(02:50):
Keenan one. Mike too. I just think that's the pecking order,
and you don't want to get rid of your number one. Yeah.
I mean I don't think anyone was arguing that Keenan,
you know, is trending in the wrong direction. You know,
he had a injured season last year, But what he
does doesn't necessarily get valued by the outside world in
the same way that maybe you know a Tyreek Hill

(03:10):
or a Jalen Waddle, guys with speed, the guys that
make these explosive plays, like Keenan's really good at like
converting like third and fours. You know, he's really good
in the red zone. He makes a lot of big
plays on money downs, but he's not this explosive receiver
that's gonna show up on the highlight rail. But in
terms of what teams team's value, you know, being highly
productive in those key situations, being able to separate against

(03:32):
man coverage on third down in the short and intermediate
area of the field, like that's extremely important, you know.
But like I think the reason it became a story
is because you have to look at the cap situation
and figure out, right, right, there's only so many ways
you can do it. Like it's not like you can
just you know, reassemble your cap sheet every single year.
There's certain levers that you can pull, and this was
one lever that they could pull. I think I wrote

(03:54):
in my column about it that. You know, the cap
math gets more difficult if you keep Keenan, but not impossible,
and that's the direction they're going there. It's a little
bit more difficult and they're gonna have to make some
decisions in terms of restructuring contracts. But you know, Keenan
at that number still makes sense. Like he's still worth
that money. Twenty four million dollars is the Capit like
that he's still worth that if he plays a full,
healthy season, and I think that's what the charges are expecting.

(04:16):
He's still a fantastic player, and it's increase real quick.
I would just I would just add, like Poper or
Chris if you want to ask, like, I wouldn't be
surprised if they restructure and they extend and they just
kind of convert some of that to signing bonus and
you can back end it and say, hey man, we'll
cut you a check for your twenty four Now we'll
tack two on the back. Whether or not you see that,

(04:37):
you know you can play that game and at least
try to take seven eight million bucks off that number
and just scratch out a big check to him here,
you know, before the season starts, and see if you
can work it that way, and that's you know, how
you can shave, like we said, because that's what you're
gonna have to do. Right, it looks like they're gonna
probably try to piece all this together, and I would
I would guess a lot of it's by restructuring and

(04:58):
extending and tack and on years that some of these
players aren't going to see. Yeah, those are all levers
that they can pull, and there's various contracts that they
can do it with. You know, Joey Bosa has another
contract they can do it with. But the one point
I want to make is that when you do that,
the money just doesn't disappear from the cap. You have
to wear that eventually in future seasons. Every dollar that
you know, guarantee dollar that gets paid, you have to

(05:20):
wear on the cap at some point. And so yeah,
you can curly said that about the Saints for ten
years pop. That's the thing, Like every single year we
say it is the year the Saints got to pay
that check, and it's like every year they figure out how,
no they don't. When's the last time the Saints were
actually like a Super Bowl contender, I mean three years ago? Yeah,
So I mean, I think I think the last I mean,

(05:42):
you know, when before when Drew Brees retired right as
long as he was their quarterback for ten years, we
heard how they got to pay the bill and they
never same with the Rams. You know. Now, look, the
Rams had to pay the bill this year because Andrew
Whitworth retired right in their offensive line got completely destroyed.
But I just feel like the I feel like the
Chargers don't pull the levers that you're talking about, or

(06:06):
at least haven't in the past enough. And I think
this may be the year we finally see them pull
some of those levels that other teams have for Yeah,
I think so, I think you're I think you're right,
But you do eventually have to wear it, like you
know that, you know, the Saints had had to trade CJ.
Gardner Johnson to the Eagles, Like that's a really good
player that they had to offload for cap reasons. You know,
they haven't been particularly in the mix in recent years.
I think like you're seeing them sort of, you know,

(06:28):
pay the bill that they kept off putting the year
after year after years. So it does come around. The
other part of it is that you have to have
the cash to do it as well, you know, like
like if you do can, if you convert you know,
fifteen million dollars of base alary and designing bonus, Like
that's a check you gotta pay year one versus paying
it down the road. So like it's there's obviously a
lot of machinations here, but like there's a reason that

(06:49):
teams are able to massage it and get into the cap.
Like it's not a huge issue. It's just like how
much cash are you gonna pay up front? And then
how much dead money are you willing to wear in
future seasons? And those are the two questions you have
to answer. If if you're willing to you know, pay
that money future seasons, and you have the cash to
do it, then absolutely you can pull these levers to
kick the can down the road. I saw a quote
this morning where Tom Telesco said that he's our Charlie Joyner,

(07:12):
He's our Andre Reid, and you know, you could be
prisoner at the moment and see, hey, he missed a
lot of time this year. There was no player in
the Charges franchise over the first five years in LA
more consistent than Keenan Allen. He played in nearly every
single game, a thousand yards seasons, one hundred plus catches,
six to eight touchdowns a season, and Justin sortly missed

(07:33):
him when he was hurt and didn't have Keenan to
rely upon. So I do think it makes sense. But
if you take Keenan out of the equation popper, they
are going to have to make some moves. They are
going to have to either restructure contracts or cut guys outright.
And I'm looking at the Khalil Mack contract and I
just wonder what do they do with Khalil Mack? Do

(07:55):
they try to restructure his deal? He has a big
cap number. I think Matt Feiler has a decent cap number.
What other players are we looking at here? Yeah, I
mean the timing of it's going to be pretty interesting
to me. You know, they're twenty million and change over
the cap right now, and they have that's the money
they have to clear to get cap compliant by one

(08:15):
pm Pacific time I'm March fifteenth. They can do that
with two moves, cutting Matt file, restructuring Joey with the
maximum amount of savings on the restructure that gets them
cap compliant by the newly year and then they can
sort of just operate and you know, make decisions and
pull levers based on different deadlines. You know. I go
back to like when they cut Brian Bloga last offseason,
they kind of waited until they had made a bunch

(08:35):
of moves and free agency before they felt like, Okay,
we need a little bit more space to round out
this roster. And then they made that move like three
days before Brian Blog's roster bonus was due. So I
think you'll sort of see the moves trickle out over time,
depending on what they feel like they need to do.
But you can start with those two moves, get cap
compliant by you know, March fifteenth, and then and then
move from there. You know. The one thing I'll say
is I don't really expect them to be particularly active

(08:58):
in free agency, Like I don't think there's any scenario
where they're able to really make decisions like they did
in previous seasons, like and I think on top of that,
I don't think they're gonna have enough space to really
round out the roster with veterans, like they're going to
be looking toward this draft class that they're bringing in
with the seven picks that they have to bolster that
depth and then they might be able to find some
bargains on the open market. But that's sort of what

(09:19):
you're looking at in terms of, you know, how they're
going to operate moving forward. But I would start there
with restructuring Joey because you know, borrowing from the Bank
of Bosa, and then you know, cutting Matt Filer, who
was outstanding in his first season but took us a
little bit of a step back last year. They can
save six and a half million there and then sort
of see what levers you want to pull moving forward
in terms of restructuring, in terms of cutting other players,

(09:40):
whether that's you know, restructuring Kalil again. I mean, they
did restructure Kalil after they traded for him, so there
was no guaranteed money remaining on that deal. Now there
is some guaranteed money nine million dollars in dead money
that they that they restructured to future seasons, so they
could potentially do that again. They could restructure Sebastian Joseph Day,
you know, Gerald Everett can get cutting. You can say
four point two five million dollars, lot of different levers

(10:00):
that you can put, you can pull and I'm just
kind of fascinated to see which levers they decided to
pull and when they decided to do them, And that's
sort of what we'll find out over the coming weeks. Yeah,
I think Hunter, you know, it's impossible not to agree
with you. They don't have the money to dip deep
into the free agent pull. They did it last year.
You know. Last year was their big swing. That was,
you know, we feel like we have the offense, Brandon,

(10:21):
what do you need on defense? Will go buy it
and let's see if we can make the super Bowl.
And that's what they did. And they spent a grip
of cash on Khalil Mack on JC Jackson, filled out
the roster with Austin and Sebastian and look, it just
didn't work, you know, and it got him a twenty
seven zero lead in the first half of the playoffs
and they made the playoffs, and that's certainly his success.
But I think just kind of going back to is

(10:43):
we try to figure out how they're you know, the
question you ask Chris is how do they do this?
Going back to Jacksonville, I do think there's you know,
however you want to describe it recency by a scar tissue.
You know, they couldn't get a first down and they
couldn't get off the field on third down. And I
think that's what they've got to figure out through the draft.
Through they're going to resign through who gets to stay
and who goes? And I think that's Hey, we were

(11:05):
good enough to win ten games, probably could have won eleven,
you know, depending on how they would have approached that
second half of the Broncos game or how into that
game they really would have been. So I do think,
you know, you don't want to take nineteen or you know,
eighteen games and focus on one half. But I think
that's going to go a long way because it was

(11:26):
a problem all year. You know that the pass rush
had issues all year because of injury. The run game
was essentially non existent on design runs when you needed
to run the ball to win football games. So I,
you know, Pop, as I look at it through that,
I'm looking at it through that lens. You know, what
what is it that they can do? Who is it
that can go and can stay? You mentioned Filer. It's

(11:48):
just seems so obvious if you can get Trey Pipkins
figure that out. To kick Jamari inside he's your guard.
And now you've got a whole line with you know,
three rookies and two vetter and you know, that's an
affordable offensive line now moving forward for the next couple
of years, and a good offensive line, you know, Restructuring Bosa,
you know, probably drafting two maybe three bass ructures to

(12:12):
try to get some depth in that room. You know,
makes sense keeping Khalil and hoping that Rump can get
healthy and take you know, all the like. That's sort
of the way I'm trying to view you know, free
agents or you know, the restructuring. Who gets to say
who goes and what to draft? And and you mentioned
Gerald Everett. To me, that seems obvious. I just think
that's and look, a lot of it is going to

(12:33):
depend on how the draft breaks. But we've heard everybody
say it. It's a great tight end draft, Chris, We've
talked about it repeatedly. You know, I have not been
bashful about my Dalton Kincaid Bias, haven't called that one
game that it was the greatest tight end game in
the history of the clubhouse guy, right exactly. I was
in after I was getting on the plane home, texting Talasco,

(12:56):
not really like, hey, I got your guy. He just
absolutely destroy USC. So you know, look there's tight ends
that they can draft, and I think that's an if
you want to shift there or whatever. You know, maybe
I'm jumping it here, you know, when it comes to
that first round pick, it it just seems like maybe
it all lays out all right for them the way
thish thing could break with what they have to do

(13:16):
and what might be available. I think the other thing
I'd add is injuries were such a big part of
what happened to this team last year, you know, and
I think I wrote it during the season. You know,
there's a difference to me between explanations and excuses. I
think people in the football world hate to, you know,
talk about injuries because they view it as an excuse.
But for me as an objective observer, you know, trying
to explain what happened, like injuries were an explanation for why,

(13:40):
you know, this team maybe didn't reach expectations throughout the season.
And I think there's a feeling that, you know, the
Chargers want to see this product in its complete form,
and they don't feel like they really ever got to
see that last year. You know, Rashaun Slater never returned.
You know, one of the best left tackles inball. You
had Justin Herbert battling rib injuries all ye you had

(14:02):
Keen and out, you had Mike Williams out. JC Jackson
goes down with an injury, you know, the defensive line
gets cleaned out, like it's you can go down the
list of all of these injuries that they had, and
so they felt like they build a really really good roster,
super Bowl caliber roster last year and then never really
got to see it come to fruition now, like, obviously
you're not going to stay fully healthy across the board
all year. But I think we can all agree that
last year was crazy insane, you know, And so I

(14:25):
think that's factoring into how they're making some of these
decisions too, Like, hey, if we can pull some of
these levers and you know, kick the can down the
road a little bit, just to see this group play
together for a full season and see what they are
actually capable of. I think that's a big motivation here
and and sort of how they're going to build this
thing and move forward. But I agree, like, you know,

(14:45):
three positions that I would throw out, you know, I
feel like they need an edge rusher, feel like they
need a tight end, and I like I would add
a receiver, like I think you should be drafting. You
should be drafting a receiver early every single year when
you have justin Herbert, because you never know what weapon
is going to take the offense over the top, Like
you can never have have enough weapons. So I think
like tight end, wide, receiver, edge, those three. If you
can add those three pieces in the early rounds, I
think you're in in decent shape. If you can keep

(15:07):
the nucleus together, you know, by managing the cap in
a specific way. Popping your article, you mentioned some of
the guys that are free agents that they have to
take care of potentially we don't know exactly who they're
going to take care of. It sounds like in you know,
I don't. I was just kind of reading between the
lines that did naz atonly maybe on his way to

(15:28):
test free agency and be on another team in twenty
twenty three? Is that accurate? And is Drew Tranquil? How
much of a priority is Drew Tranquil and bringing him back? Yeah? Well,
starting with this year at I think the way a
Lohee Gilman played, and more importantly, how the defense played.

(15:48):
When a loohe Gilman got a lot of snaps and
was a starter, I think gives you a good indication
of like what they're feeling about this safety group. You know,
Nas always had a ton of talent and just never
really read the level that I thought he was capable of.
You know, we all saw the ball production that he
had at Delaware, but there was just some inconsistencies there,
lapses at certain times, whether that was in run defense

(16:10):
and coverage and how he was taking angles. Never became
the playmaker that I thought he was capable of. And
Alo he did a lot of those things. He's not
the same, you know as the sire Atalie in terms
of physical talent, but he's an extremely smart player, physical
and dependable, and so I think they're really comfortable rolling
with Derwin and Aloe next year at safety, and then

(16:31):
I think they're expecting a huge jump from J. T. Woods.
You know, he has every tool in the toolbox. You know,
obviously we saw him a little bit last year, but
I think they're hoping that year one to year two
there's going to be a huge jump there. So I
think in terms of safety, you know, they're pretty comfortable
with that, you know. For me, like, I think that
Trey Pipkins is a great player, Like I really do.

(16:51):
Like it was he finally realized, you know, it took
four years, but he finally realized what Tom and his
staff saw when they drafted him. And his first season
was my first season covering the team he had been
drafted in, you know, end of April. I'd started covering
the team, you know, that July. And so I've seen,
like I've seen him grow and it's just I give
him so much credit for you know, making the decision

(17:14):
to go to Dallas and working with Duke many Weather
and really like molding himself in his game to become
a starting caliber tackle. And like those are always the
players that Tom Talesco likes to reward, you know, being
tough of playing through an MCLA and still being like
a starting caliber player when he had you know, three
different setbacks when he kept getting rolled up on that
left knee, like and before he got hurt, he was

(17:35):
playing at a super super high level. And so like
I feel like that's a guy that you'd want to resign.
But again, it's all gonna you know, come down to
how much space they have. And the same thing with
Drew Right fourth round pick um. You know, they felt
like he could develop into a real leader, vocal leader.
They felt like he could develop into like, you know,
an all around Mike linebacker who would be that that
captain the defenses, which is what he turned into this

(17:57):
season when he became the signal caller in Week four
and held to that role. You know, there is no
real weakness in his game. In my opinion. He can
rush the passer, he's great in coverage. I think he's
a discipline run defender. His size shows up a little
bit in that area. But like if you want to
knock him in one area would be that. But I
think he's a really reliable player. The question is, like,
can you clear enough space to bring those two guys back,
Like they're both going to have markets out here, especially

(18:19):
Trey Pipkins as a starting tackle, and so like we
just have to wait and see, honestly, to see what
the cap space situation is, what those guys markets end
up being, and if the Chargers can fit them into
the cap sheet and if they think that they can
have a solution without bringing those guys back. You know,
I think they could potentially have a solution for Drew.
You know, they have some guys in the roster, and
you know, you can play with more defensive backs and

(18:40):
do different things to take some of the value away
from the inside linebacker. But like right tackles a really
important position. It's okay, Like you don't resign Trey, you
kicked Jamari out there, Sallier, Does that mean you have
to keep Matt Filer at left guard? That means you
can't clear the six and a half million dollars in
space you know they're in. Then you end up going
down a rabbit hole. So but I think both of
them are really good play and deserve second contracts wherever

(19:01):
they end up. I think, you know, for me, I
you know, I totally understood when Kaiser left Lush Drews
like I'd get it, you know, I get it. But
for me, Drew is I would hate to see him go.
You know, we had a front row seat for the
difference between athletic traits and instincts at that position, and
you want to talk about a glaring difference. That is

(19:23):
a position where instincts are the premium, and you better
have him because if you don't wholly hell does it
get ugly in a hurry, and they will attack the
heck out of you. And we saw it. We saw
it in that second half, and I think to be
able to keep him around, you know, that's I think
you can just talk about the floor of a defense,
right if that the floor can drop out in a hurry,

(19:46):
if if that position is not quick to diagnose, you
can really attack it. And so, like you said, Daniel,
the trick is going to be what's his market He's
I would not be surprised if Drew got offered some
money somewhere else and and the Chargers got to figure
out how to get as close to it as possible.
You know, he started his family here. I think he

(20:07):
likes it here, and I think it's trying to find
that that spot where where you can make it work.
Trade to me is obvious. We've heard Tom say it,
you know, there's he said it repeatedly. Almost nobody in
the NFL has two starting caliber tackles. If you just
go through rosters, there's almost no teams that have two
good tackles. They have one and then it's like, okay, yeah,

(20:29):
we can get by with this one and we'll just
shade our help that way and we'll run plays away
from when you can have two, it really changes the calculus.
So even though you'd feel good about putting Shamari over there,
I think to me it to be able to And
it goes back to our conversation we had Chris about
the Andrew Luck podcast and what Tom got to witness,

(20:50):
you know, and how important offensive line is and the
fact that they ignored that position repeatedly in Indianapolis or
swung and miss repeatedly in Indianapolis, and what it meant
like to me. Priority on get justin figured out. Priority
two is make sure he's good up front. Let's make
sure that we keep our guy right, especially after shoulder
surgery and a rib injury. Let's when when Corey Lindsley

(21:10):
went out of the game. Let's make sure our old
line is right. So I think I think you hit
it on the head, Pop. I think at nas, I
just don't see it. Trey is gonna be priority one.
I think Trank will be priority two. And then we
got to get into you know, is it possible to
bring back Morgan Fox, Kyle van Noy, like, are those possibilities?
What's the market going to look like for those guys
who seemed to really enjoy their time here as well.

(21:31):
Money real quick on Trey before you answer, paper, it
would be a real shame if the Chargers wouldn't get
something done with Trey after develop or developing him and
investing so much in him as a young raw player,
right to see him flourish this year and then go
somewhere else and flourish for another team on a pretty
big contract. It would it would be tough, I think

(21:53):
for the Chargers to see him somewhere else after they
invested a third round pick on a small school kid.
No way that it was gonna take some time. He
finally figures it out, and then he goes somewhere else.
That would be tough. I mean, it's it's just math,
you know. Look, the Raiders are sixty million dollars under
the cap and can use the right tackle. You know,
if they decide they're gonna give him twenty million bucks
a year, it makes it hard, you know, when you're

(22:16):
already twenty million. That's the problem is, like I just said,
teams don't have quality tackles. So Trey's gonna hit the
market and Tray's gonna gonna assuming I'm not gonna get offers,
no doubt that. I just say it's gonna be. It's
gonna be tough, to tough, pill to swallow. Right, what
are the Bears one hundred and ten million bucks under
the cap or something? I mean, the Bears need to

(22:36):
rebuild an entire offensive a ton of money, That's what
I mean. So it's yeah, and he's an ascending player too, exactly,
not like you're paying for a thirty year old finished
product like Trays. Right, Tray's best football is still in
front of him because he's playing through this injury last year.
If you get like an even remotely healthy season out
of him, it's gonna be even better than he was
last year. He's gonna be what he was in the
first four weeks of the season. Now here's an interesting
one because, and look, is it fair to Tray, No,

(22:58):
but franchise tag is not for tackles. It's for a lineman,
and it averages out across the entire offensive line. So again,
I don't know how he would respond to that. But
you tag him and you're talking about a year at
I don't know what the number is it's like maybe
thirteen fourteen million bucks, and it's again not fair. Probably

(23:23):
would not go over well in the Pipkins camp. But
to me, that's like everyone's talking about franchise tag. That's
one that I would would keep it. I could probably
type it in right now and try to figure out
what that number is, but I'm pretty sure if I
remember right, I do believe that's the way the NFL
franchise tag works. It is not tackle guard, center, it
is offensive line. Is the franchise number. So okay either way, though,

(23:44):
if you tag a player that salary is all cap hit, right,
and they don't like you don't They don't have the
space to take on a thirteen million dollar capit, a
twelve million dollars for a point and eleven million dollar capit,
Like they're better off extending him, give me him a
four year deal, getting a four million dollar capit in
year one, restructuring it in the back, you know, give
them the signing back. That's the game they're playing now.
Like they don't have like t the way Brown franchise

(24:10):
here by the Chiefs. That's right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah no, No,
Tea might get franchised again. Who knows. Yeah, with what
the tyle market is, I don't know. I'm fascinated to
see what trades market ends up being, you know, because
they maybe we overvalue them here because we saw the development.
It's very possible. Yeah, yeah, And I think, like you know,

(24:32):
for people on the outside, it will be difficult to
separate the performance from the injury. I think for us,
like we know what he was dealing with, and we're
factoring that context into like, Okay, yeah, he gave a
couple pressures in this game, but he can barely move
his left leg, and like the fact that he's playing
so well in pass protection despite that is really impressive.
I don't know if that context, you know, really factors

(24:53):
in at a high level and when other teams are
sort of evaluating a guy on film, but maybe maybe
they do. Maybe they do that type of due diligence,
so they could probably various from team to team. But yeah,
like this is why you end up bringing up guys
like Khalil Mack, like Keenan Allen where you have a
potential to save money and save cap space because the
mats starts to get very difficult when you talk about

(25:14):
resigning some of these guys. You know, whether it's Trey,
whether it's true, whether it's Kyle Van Noy, Morgan, Fox,
Bryce Callan, all key contributors and starters in this team
last year. How many of those guys are end up
back next year? I mean, here's your you know, it's
thirty one for Joey. That's an obvious restructure that's going
to happen. Khalil twenty seven four, Keenan twenty one seven,

(25:34):
Mike nineteen, JC just got signed. There's way too much
dead money there unless you restructure it and you try
to rebuild that things. That one is risking to me
because they have no idea how he's going to respond
for the century. So the one that they could do
is Sebastian because that's more of a known quantity, and
you feel like, yeah, nine million, he's got two two
years left. At a high level, I think that's like

(25:54):
a safer bet than saying, Okay, we're gonna restructure JC. Yeah,
and a race our ability to get out of that
contract after next year if you come there back. You know,
so what about what about mac in restructure? Do you
think that's a possibility. You said there was some guaranteed
money already there. Right. Yeah, again, like if they are,
if they're shifting how they operate, then anything is possible.

(26:15):
If they're really going down this road of like we're
going to keep this window open. I know Tom hates
using that turn, but if we're going to keep this
window open with this group as long as possible, then
anything's on the table, you know, from a in terms
of like you know, financial responsibility, like restructuring a contract
year over year a year is how you end up
in a situation where you have a ton of dead
money and it gives you less flexibility in terms of

(26:35):
moving on from a player. And so in Khalil's case,
you know, they restructured it last year. They spread you know,
thirteen and a half million over three years. That created
nine million over the final two years of the deal
and dead money that they would now have to wear
against their cap if they were to move on from
Khalil this offseason. If they hadn't restructured it, there would
have been no dead money and they could have gotten
out of the deal and had had nothing charged against

(26:57):
the cap. And so that's sort of how that works.
So right now it's a nine dead my charge if
they turned more base salary and to signing bonus and
spread it over the final two years of the deal.
They'll be even more dead money than nine million dollars.
And then eventually you have to wear that money against
the cap, you know, and like four apps continues to
go up right like that. That's where you get the
relief is you know, we just had the cap jump.

(27:18):
It was it sixteen million this last year or something
like that. Then the granted a lot of that was
built into the COVID and slowly getting that escalator. But
I think we have one more big money deal coming in,
you know, to the league. So that's the other thing
to remember is you can and that's why these quarterback
numbers that are nuts. And you know if Joe, if
just an average is fifty million a year, what forty

(27:40):
eight million, that number is just going to grow. So
it's not going to be as big of a percentage
and as big of a concern. And that's why I like,
you know, you look at the Patrick Mahomes contract and
it's just like it seems so ridiculous when it was done,
but now you look at the percentage of the cap
and it's you end up getting away with it. So
that's you know, where where it all comes in. But
I think you said something earlier, Pop that that people

(28:00):
need to remember is guaranteed money asked to go into escrow,
and you've got and we know what the check is
gonna look like going into escrow for Justin Herbert this offseason.
You know, the Spanos family is going to have to
write a one hundred and fifty hundred and whatever that
number's gonna be, you know, you know, one hundred and

(28:21):
twenty million dollars. I don't know what the guaranteed money's
gonna be, but it's gonna be in that range. You know,
it's gonna be one money. Yeah, I think I projected
it like one hundred thirty five FILLI guaranteed it's signing,
so that yeah, that's gotta you gotta have that. You've
got to have that money. It's just the it's it's
a ridiculous rule that the NFL won't get rid of
because owners can hide behind it and say, well, come on,
I can't give you two hundred and sixty million guaranteed

(28:41):
because I gotta write a check into escrow. And that's
how they kind of play that game. But they should
lose it. The league makes waste too much money. Now
that freaking Washington is going to sell their team for
seven billion dollars, it's like it doesn't matter anymore like
it used to. Yeah, but that's that's the reality is.
You know, there are not many owners that can write
a check for two hundred and fifty million dollars, you know,

(29:02):
on Tuesday in April and just drop it into a
bank and never see it again. And that's and that's
the reality of the way this league operates. So that's
where a lot of it gets tricky when you're talking
about restructuring and converting salary into you know, bonus for
Khalil Mack or Joey Bosa and as it as it

(29:23):
you know, pairs with the signing bonus for Justin Herbert
that's coming this year. Pope. I appreciate you breaking that
down too, especially with with Khalil's situation what they did
in the first year of his deal with the Chargers
and how they kind of move some of that money around. Um,
and it just kind of puts them in this current position. Um.

(29:44):
You know, we talked about Filer, we talked about Keenan
and money to your point. Look at look at some
of the cap space. The Bears have ninety eight million
dollars in cap space, and look at the spot check
right now. Atlanta has sixty six million, The Raiders have
forty six million, The Giants who are in the playoffs
last year forty three million. New England has thirty six million,
Cincinnati has thirty six million, Houston has thirty four million,

(30:07):
Baltimore twenty five, Seattle twenty four. So there's a lot
of there's a lot of teams that well, a everyone
needs to tackle at all times, right, whether it's for
death purposes or to have a starter a guy like Drew.
You know, all those teams you can find a home
for Drew probably among those top ten teams with cap
space two. So it's an interesting offseason for the Chargers

(30:30):
because not much turnover will happen in terms of a
lot of the starters. You're really gonna have to hit
on your draft picks and you're gonna have to be
very selective and free agency how you use that money. Yeah,
And I think the one thing about the NFL and
really any professional sports league is for fans to understand,

(30:51):
you know that your career is fleeting. It's a capricious
occupation because everything can change in one play. Yeah, so,
you know, loyalty, there's just that it doesn't even it's
it's a word that doesn't belong in professional sports. You
just you can't afford to be loyal. You know, you
have to take the biggest check out there, especially in

(31:11):
football because of the way the contracts are structured, the
length of the contracts. Rarely will you find a team,
you know, give you X number of years with a
giant number attached to it, unless you're a quarterback or
a super elite player. So for players like Trade and Drew,
that's just the reality of it. You know, this is
your opportunity. You have made your way to the pot

(31:34):
of gold. You know, you've you've slid down that rainbow
and I know you enjoyed the ride. But the reality
is you almost never, I mean it is maybe one
percent of one percent will you see a player go
or stay somewhere because they really liked it instead of
taking the most money. You just so that's that's where
a lot of this when you're trying to kind of

(31:55):
put odds on it, you know, they may be a
little bit longer than charge your fans hope because it
is you know, it's very hard. They took their swing
last year, you know, and look, I credit and I
think that's something too that's important to remember if if
fans get upset, how can you let these guys walk
You're so cheap. They were not cheap last year. They
wrote giant checks last year because they felt like, we're ready,

(32:15):
we're gonna take the swing. We think we can win
a super Bowl. Let's go, you know, spend the money.
And they did, and now, you know, to your point,
pop to some degree, the Bills do this year because
of what they did last year. You know, it really
was a swing for twenty twenty two. It was a
huge swing. And I think the oil restructure is a
good example of that because they didn't have to do that,

(32:36):
but they cleared another nine million in space that they
ended up using to sign Gerald Everett and Conoy and
Morgan Fox and Bryce Callahan. And how important were those
pieces to having the necessary depth, you know, to ride
through these injuries and still make the playoffs, you know,
because that would be my concern about how they're building
it this year is let's say, okay, we need rookie contrast,
because we need cheap, cheap players to add to his

(32:59):
cap sheet. Can you build the same kind of depth
that you built last year when he made some of
these really good bargain deals in the free agent market.
You know, if you if you lean toward rookie contracts
as your depth pieces as opposed to veteran free agents
as your death pieces, there's an inherently a lot more
risk there because you don't know how that players you're
kind of transition to the NFL. You know, you know,

(33:21):
Bryce had some injury, some injury history, you know, Kyle
van Noy, you know, we didn't fully expect, you know
what what he was gonna be able to do. But
it was a little bit more of a known quantity
than bringing in a fourth round draft pick to be
your third edge treasure or you know, a fifth round
pick to be your backup outside corner or whatever it
ends up being. You know, And so I feel like

(33:41):
it's inherently a little bit more risky to go that route,
But it's what they have to do, you know, It's
what they have to think the easy way to to
work that exercise, Poppets, Let's just look at last year.
You know. First round Zion great, Second round was Khalil great,
Third round, j T. Woods didn't play a lick. Fourth round,
Isaiah Spiller doesn't play a lick. Fifth round, Tito great,
you know, great, depth piece started to come on, became

(34:02):
a starter, gets hurt. Sixth round, Josh Sire you know,
and Jamari you know, and you get one really giant
contribution and one solid contribution, and then Dean Leonard it is,
you know, and four author you know, very small contributors
or you know, solid. So I think that's what you
can expect from a draft, right, and that was probably

(34:24):
really good. I think what you got out of the
draft last year was probably higher than you should expect. Now,
look at what the Chief scott four defensive starters, but
that's ridiculous like that, you know what the Jet Scott,
what the Seahawks scot that that's an outlier. Yeah. So
I think sixteen starts at left tackle out of your
six round pick, I think, yeah, that's a huge win. Yeah.
So I think it's when you look at the draft

(34:45):
this year, they're not going to get any compensation picks
because of all the free agents they signed last year.
So their seven picks are their seven picks. I would
not be surprised in the least to see them try
to add more if that's what you're talking about. Pop.
I know Talsco does not trade down a lot, but
you know, that's a real I think that might be
a real possibility. If you're talking about trying to build depth,

(35:06):
you want more bites at the apple. So I think
this could be one of those years where hey, yeah,
I'd love to take the speed receiver here. It's not
a great wide receiver class. I don't know what kind
of run we're going to see. You know, do you
feel like you can get that tight end by trading
out of twenty one in the second round? Maybe Musgrave
slides back there or something like, you know what I

(35:26):
mean as opposed to Mayor or Kinkaid or I wouldn't
be surprised if they take that approach, you know, to
just to try to rebuild that depth and reset that
cap number. But as you said, that's a huge gamble
with how much talent they have on this team right now,
the age of that talent and kind of where they

(35:47):
see themselves in the in the pecking order in the AFC.
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awaits only with on Location. So Pop, I look at
Bosa and Mack and that was the plan last year,
was to have those guys be together for a full season.

(36:55):
Didn't work out that way. Khalil did play the entire season.
Those guys are turning, let's say, for the sake of
this conversation, both those guys return, you're still very light
at edge rusher. Behind those guys, do you think it
may be worth looking at edge rusher in the first
round knowing that you can't get a guy in free
agency that that's going to make that big of an

(37:17):
impact with the money situation, UM, looking at what the
edge rusher class looks like in that first round, in
the mid to late first round, do you think that
may be worth a gamble to go after a pass rusher? Absolutely? Yeah,
I think any anyway, with three positions in the first round,

(37:37):
I think they can do tight end, wide receiver, edge
like those are the three places that I think they
can go. Um, there should be some options there. I mean,
it sort of depends how it falls. As a guy
like Lucas VanNess At at an Iowa fall that far. Typically,
you know, when you get closer to the draft, these
edge rushers end up going earlier than you expect because
you know Money was saying everyone's looking for a tackle,
everyone's also looking for an edge rusher, you know, and

(37:59):
tackle right exactly, and so they end up getting I
don't want to say overdrafted, but maybe they go ahead
of where people expect um. So just it depends on
how it checks out. But like, I think it's usually
a good indication of roster health when you can say, okay,
we can go any of three positions in the first round,
you know, versus like we need this position, which has
been the case with this team in the past, like

(38:19):
the year they drafted rashawns Later and Assante in the
first two rounds, like they had to go tackle corner,
like they whatever, you know, order it ended up being
those two positions they had to get in the first
two rounds. We got big hits, Yeah, both big hits.
I mean one of them was, you know, a five
hundred foot home run and the yeah yeah, and then
grand Slam bottom of the nine. Yeah. And Asante does
a lot of things really well. And he's a flawed player,

(38:41):
but you know, a lot of cornerbacks are flawed. I
think he's he's perfectly fine. He's a great number two corner.
But yeah, like you don't want to be in that situation,
situation if you can avoid it. I think a lot
of teams will always be like best player available. But
it's that to me, is a myth. Like every team
has needs, you're hoping that you can address any of
a few needs in those early rounds and have some
versatility in terms of how you go about it. Edge

(39:02):
to me is in that conversation because you need to
have a backup plan in case one of those two
guys is not there, because we saw what happened last
year and yeah, Kylevin I picked it up down the stretch.
He played is that, you know, played outstanding football down
the stretch, but it took him a while to get
there and to get into his comfort zone. And you know,
if you look at the season as a whole, like

(39:23):
the pressure numbers weren't really there, especially from the edge
rushing group, and so I think they have to add
an edge rusher early on in this draft because you
don't know exactly what Chris Rump is going to be
and you need to have depth and a contingency plan
at that position, you know, which I brought this up
pop a couple of weeks ago, and in just watching

(39:45):
Philadelphia that had the greatest pass rush that we've seen
in thirty years, seventy sacks in it being completely nullified
by Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs and the Super Bowl.
I said, you know what, I just don't care. I
just you know if that's because you know, we talked about, Look,
you've got grades on players, and the Chargers are going
to go into the draft with probably seventeen or fifteen

(40:08):
or maybe if it's a really good draft, twenty first
round grades. And that's where needs come in. When you
talk about best pair player available, they're going to end
up having seven or eight players that have almost identical grades.
And that's how needs come into play. Right, So technically
they can still say, yeah, we're taking the best player available,
but we had all of these guys lined up very
very close to one another, and we need the edge,
or we need the receiver, we need the tenants. We

(40:29):
plucked that particular player. But I said, I would just
load up on offense. I think, you know, I like
to me, I would much rather with what they have
on offense with Herbert, with the offensive line, with Keenan
and Austin Eck. Just give me more offense, give me
absolutely yeah, give me an up unstoppable offense versus trying
to plug this hole on defense that I know ultimately

(40:52):
is probably going to be taken advantage of because of
the rules and because of Joe Burrow and Patrick Mahomes
and Josh Allen quarterbacks that you're gonna have to go through.
It's gonna it's almost impossible to build a defense to
stop them. Like, I just that that's sort of the
way I feel the NFL has shifted and the way
the game is gone. It is so hard to slow

(41:14):
these elite quarterbacks down that I would rather make sure
the offense has every single weapon available to just freaking
heavy way fight heymaker it out and see if you
can win that game like the Chiefs did with your
opponent's scoring thirty in the Super Bowl, you know. Like
to me, that's I just think with Burrow and Mahomes
and Allen and all of these guys in this conference, Like, honestly,

(41:39):
how realistic is it that your defense is going to
is going to keep all of them like they, Oh,
you're gonna build a defense to slow those guys down
round after round after round. To me, I'd rather just
build the offense. That's like, hey, let's go, let's just
see how this plays out. Roll the ball out, and
let's see what we can do. Yeah, you know, she's

(41:59):
also lost Super Bowl because they couldn't protect bat you Mahomes,
so right, you know, friends, that's what I mean, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no,
I see what you're saying. I still I mean maybe
it was me, you know, growing up watching those Giants
teams with us see you and your Michael Strahan, and
that was how I go. Yeah, but I like, yeah, no,
I forty nine ers got there, but ultimately, you know,

(42:22):
they ended up losing, you know. And and yes, the
two years ago Mahomes got destroyed by that Tampa front
in the in the Super Bowl. But how explosive was
that offense with Tom Brady? You know, I mean that
thing was paired with an offense that was a wrecking machine.
And you know, I like, and that's not me saying

(42:42):
ignor the defense. I'm just saying, Hey, if I'm sitting
at twenty one and I'm Tom and I see you
know either, hey, we really here's here's our first round grades.
We've got a first round grade on Kincaid. We've got
a first round grade on Breefe or whatever edge is there.
We've got a first round grade on Addison. Give me
the offensive player. I would just much rather take the

(43:03):
offensive player there and try to find that defensive player
in the next round. I like to me, I'd rather
make the offense ye whole as possible. Yeah, I think
you're making points. What's your take on? Hold on, let
me say this very quick. Go for it money. Make
your case to the uh, the defensive play calling head coach,

(43:25):
and let me know what he says about about that strategy. Um, honestly,
like you know what I would say, Hey, man, coach
him up, coach him up. You know, offense wins in
this league. Defense is expected to be coached up. And
you see it, right, look at look, here's my case
to it. Here's my coach case to coach Staley. Uh,
let's look at Seattle. You know where where was Tarik

(43:47):
wool And drafted? You know, and he ends up getting coach.
Let's talk about the the Chiefs. You got four starters
on defense, and yeah, two of them were first rounders,
but they're late first rounders, and Carloftis and McDuffie and
and then you had a guy in a sixth round
that's starting a secondary They figured out how to coach
him up. You know. Let's let's let's go to Philadelphia,
like coach him up, dude, because you know I'll give you.

(44:09):
I'm gonna give you an offense. That's if I give
you an offense, that's it's it's almost like the Big twelve. Right, Hey,
I'm gonna give you an offense that can score X
number of points. You know what I need out of you?
I need two stops. That's all I need. If you
can give me two stops, we're gonna win a game.
And um, I know DJ's been talking about it a lot,
and I remember here, I was sitting at the table

(44:31):
when he said it. You know, going into that Chief's game,
Gus Bradley said, if we can hold him to seven
a quarter, we got a chance to win. That's saying, Hey,
I'm gonna give up twenty eight points to the Chiefs,
and I'm gonna feel good about that because we got
justin Herbert and I expect our offense to score thirty one.
And I think that's like, to me, that's just a
very realistic approach to Now, you have to defeat the

(44:54):
king of the King of the hill, the king that's
in your that's they always say draft like that, that
it's impossible. Like Tom says, this all the time when
he's asked, when he's interviewed. When he was with the Colts, Yeah,
we drafted for our division and teams drafted to stop us.
So if you're drafting for your division, what do you
think the right like I'm asking. I'm not saying that

(45:15):
my answer is right. I'm just saying, if you're drafting
for your division, what do you think is the right
approach to knock the Chiefs off the perch? Is it
more defense or is it making Herbert more lethal? Like,
I don't know that yet. That's my opinion what the
answer is. I don't know what yours is. I don't
know what the right answer is. Yeah, my opinion, I'm
with you. I think you invest offensively and just keep

(45:38):
getting as many weapons, whether that's weapons to protect us
and Herbru on the offensive line, or weapons to attack
downfield in the passing game. But I think you have
a head coach who believes that if he has the
right pieces and the right game plan, that he can
stop the Chiefs, and so I think that's going to
be a factor in how they make decisions here as
far as like drafting or building a team to play

(45:58):
against the Chiefs and Patrick Mahomes. Sorry, Chris, that's his
scheme though, right he believes in his scheme. Yeah, yep, exactly.
So scheming up coach scheme it up popa as would
be a running game. Yeah, okay, my answer would be
a running game besides Austin Ekeler, Like what a pacheco
do in the playoffs? Like, where do you find that guy?

(46:20):
Do you find him in the first round? Do you
get if the kid from Texas is there at twenty one?
You'll do it? Never in a million years, So I
drafted running back in the first round. I apologize to
Austin and all running backs out there. I enjoy watching
you guys play, But if I'm running a team, I
would never, ever, ever, ever who's the answer running back
in the first round? I'll make a counterpoint to that. Okay, okay,

(46:43):
what do we talk about with Jackson? Though Austin Eckler
rush for negative three yards, Jean Robinson is a special player.
I mean, this is we're not talking about, Hey, this
is the number one running back on the board. We're
talking about Sequon Barkley. We are talking about Zeke Elliott.
Like that's the level of this guy coming out of college.
You know, so if you feel like you're there, like

(47:07):
if if you feel like, hey, we're gonna be able
to bring back Trey. We've got this offensive line now,
Slater is going to be healthy, Slater, Sawyer, Lindsley, Zion,
Trey is upfront. We've kept all three receivers. We feel
good about getting a receiver in the second round. I
am now going to drop in a three down do everything,

(47:28):
hammer between the tackles, catches the ball out of the backfield,
wiggle when he gets into open space. Like that's that's
where it comes into the conversation. If it's by the way,
it makes your franchise quarterback even more lethal. Yeah, I mean,
like to me, Pop, the reason you do it is
if you believe it's the final piece, Like we've got
everything else. Yes, so let's drop Robinson in there and

(47:51):
so like that's I think that's where maybe you can
make a case if a top across the board, everybody
you ask says this is a top five player in
the draft. Did the talent wise, like this is the
best running back we've seen come out? Probably? I mean
since say que like that's how talented he is? Like
there there has not been anyone that's been remotely close

(48:12):
to this talented. He's all Popper's board. No, it's not
that he's I agree with what Money's saying. If you
feel like you're a running back away, that's what I'm saying.
This roster's not a running back, then that's that's the end.
That's not you know, like they have to be able
to block at tight end for running back to have
any sort of impact like that, to me is a
more important position to draft than than running back. You know,

(48:37):
I don't know, maybe, but they also drafted a running
back in the fourth rond last year, who's the youngest
player in the draft, and they're so waiting to see
what he's going to be, right, we should have seen
him in Week eighteen. And you know, I personally think
that that Josh Kelly is an ascending player, Like I don't.
I just don't feel like they're they're running back away.
And I don't think that a running back individually can
affect the game without help like you need, Like you

(49:02):
can be the most counted running back in the world,
but if you can't block chargers, do the chargers have
that help help? I don't know. I don't I'm not
confident in how they can block it tight end. We
don't know if Trey Pipkins is going to be back.
And then I also feel like, listen, Jamari saw you
was did a commendable job last year. We have not
really seen him play guard. We saw it a little

(49:24):
bit in training camp. And it's not like he was
like an all pro player at left tackle either, And like, listen,
super commendable job to be able to be a functional
player at left tackle as a six round pick when
no one expected it from you. I give him a
ton of credit, but it's not like he was this excellent,
excellent player out there. He was. He was serviceable, right,
And I think we've gotten ahead of ourselves in terms
of what he actually was out there. Like he did

(49:45):
have some issues against faster rushers with his movement skills,
the stuff that people said, hey, we don't think this
is like, this is why we don't think he can
play tackle in the NFL. He proved a lot of
that wrong with just his positioning, his strength and all
that kind of stuff. But I don't think it's a shoe.
And to be like, Okay, you throw Jamari at at
left guard and bring Trey Pipkins back, and this is
gonna be like an elite run blocking unit. You know,
obviously having Rashaan back is a big deal. But I

(50:07):
don't know because of some of those concerns, I don't
know if this offense and this team in general is
like one star running back away from being like, you know,
a super Bowl team. I'm like I said, I was
just asking, yeah, But to me, that's that's where the
value of Robinson comes in. Yeah, if you drop him
onto a team that's ready, he's he's going to be
a lethal weapon. Is it has to be addressed. It

(50:31):
has to be addressed at some point this year because
because the first two years Brett has been the head coach,
they have not been able to run the ball effectively
outside Austin neck CLOrk. So you know, we we spent
all that first year saying, is it gonna be Justin Jackson?
Is gonna be Josh mcklly. These guys have been hurt
this past year, you know, you know, Josh got hurt,
but Josh had some nice moments. We didn't see Isaiah

(50:51):
Spiller at all, so we don't really even know what
he is right now as an NFL player, Um, they
have to figure out something. So if it's not a
superstar in the draft, do you get a guy in
the third or fourth round like you've done the last
couple of years or the last you know, maybe like
two out of the last five years. Or do you
get a veteran like a Leonard Fournette who was just
released or you know, a Tony Pollard who is coming

(51:14):
off an injury. Like what do you do? Because Kellen
Moore has proven that he can run a really effective
offense with two running backs and get the ball down
the field. Yeah, I mean, I I'm maybe, yeah, we
might be far apart on this, but I'm pretty comfortable
with the running back group. Like I don't look at Okay,
they couldn't run the ball last year, it's because of
the running backs. Like, I think Austin's a really special player.

(51:37):
I loved what I saw from Josh Kelly. And you
have a really young player and Isaiah Spiller that you
know they're hoping will make some huge jump from year
one to year two, which I think is seven yards
seven yards in the second half of a wildcard playoff
game is unacceptable. Yeah, yeah, But pinning that exclusively on
the running backs is I don't think fair to them,
Like a lot of it's blocking. A lot of it
is like the committee runs that were not successful all

(52:02):
year long. Like that's so that's where look Popper Again,
I was making more of a general argument for when
you would draft the running back in the first round,
as opposed to saying the Chargers should draft him at
twenty one. I think it'd be interesting because if in fact,
it'd be a great opportunity for Tom Talesco to prove,
oh yeah, we are a best player available team, because
I can promise you if he is there at twenty one,

(52:24):
there is not going to be a player that is
considered better than him at twenty one. It's just not
going to happen. So that'll put that to the test.
I would much rather see a Dalton Kincaid there, a
Jordan Addison there, if they're available one hundred percent, you know,
one of the edge rushers there, if one hundred percent,
like not not even close, is but but I would

(52:48):
that would certainly put it to the test. Is if
he's let's just say there's Nolan Smith, Jordan Addison, Dalton
Kincaid and Jehan Robinson are there Okay, well, now now
we're really putting that to the test. I don't know
if you drafted the best player available. I suppose you
drafted for need. Yeah. I think I think they feel
like in terms of the running game, that Kellen Moore
is going to be able to schematically and design wise

(53:09):
get that thing going in a way that I agree
that Joe Lombardi was never able to from a commitment standpoint,
play calling standpoint, how they're preparing, like all of that
stuff was a big issue, um with Joe, and it's
a big reason why they moved on from him. Um,
it's gonna look different, there's gonna be a different commitment
to it. And they're putting a lot on Kellen Moore's
taking this offensive coordinator job as to why they think

(53:32):
the running game you know, will improve and you know,
having Rashaan Slater back at left tackle will help too.
I think, Helse, do you think, hey, do you think
Isaiah Spillard can be the guy? It's Austin not the guy.
This guy's go twenty touchdowns and back to back. He's
talking about a Yeah, I think, yeah, yeah, I think
for aust guy, I'm talking about what I'm talking about
a guy who can compliment Austin consistently so he's healthy.

(53:53):
At the end of Josh can be that guy. Do
you guys not think Josh can be that guy? I do?
I do? I look, like I said, my big issue, like,
I just don't understand what I don't know how many
games we had Larry round treactive like that. That's something
that'll never make sense to me. Never like the fact

(54:15):
that Isaiah, especially in week eighteen. I just that that's
one thing I cannot reconcile. I just I'll never understand
the thinking behind that. And I know they keep saying, well,
we didn't know the outcome of that game, you know
when we had to turn in you know, our rosters.
But they were up by ten with like six minutes

(54:35):
left when you had to turn in your inactives. Yes,
games can get weird or they were up by like
fourteen or something. And it's like, I need to see
what Isaiah Spiller can do, man, I need to see something.
This is a perfect opportunity to get that and to
keep Austin healthy. So I think, like, to me, it's
not I look, it'd be ridiculous to doubt Austin. We've

(54:56):
talked about it all the time, the fact that he's
not an all pros asinine, but you know, like to me,
it's keeping him healthy for and I think that's what
even Austin has talked about. He's like, hey man, I
need one of these guys to raise their hand because
he gets the crap kicked out of them, you know.
And and he we say it all the time, right,
he refuses to go down in first contact, so he
really gets beat up through the course of a season.

(55:18):
And you need to have a Tony Pollard Zeke Elliott
kind of deal I think with Austin to even make
him more effective. Not to mention, if you're Kellen Moore,
you think you've got to believe he wants to have
him freaking set up in the slot or outside wide
of the numbers if he can have a hammer back
there and now you're really affecting the math. I would
love to see more of that, like we saw with Shane.

(55:39):
I remember Shane would do it all the time and
it was awesome. You know. You see that that linebacker
trot out there with Austin, It's like, oh, you're dead,
you know, and it was I think you need to
see some more of that. But I'm with you. I
think it's on. I just don't think they know you
know that, Like, I'm not sure. I'm not sure if
they it's the like to me, Chris to your point,
I don't think the answers in the third round or

(56:01):
the fourth round. They've already got enough of those guys.
Josh Kelly's that guy. Isaiah Spiller could be that guy.
To me, it's it's, hey, do we believe we're close enough?
Holy kle how did this guy fall into our lap?
You know, that's where the conversation would come in. That's
that's the only one. To me, I think this conversation
would be a little bit different if Josh hadn't, you know,
sprained his mcl on the kickoff return blocking in a

(56:23):
week five and then missus four weeks Cleveland game, Like, yeah,
you know, I really have a lot of belief in
him as a player from what I've seen, and then
and then you can expect dramatic improvement from Isaiah Spiller,
the youngest player in the draft, who now is a
full offseason to get bigger. Like That's one thing Joe
Lombardi talked a lot about when they draft him like
it's gonna take some time for him to fill into

(56:44):
his body because he's twenty years old, you know when
they drafted him. And so I'm I'm more comfortable with
it than I think you guys are. Like, I think
they have a decent room, and I think they've got
a lot of potential in that room as well, where
like you know, drafting another running back doesn't make a
whole ton of sense to me. But and you know what, Chris,
you asked about Pacheco, Like Timmy, that's Josh Kelly. You know, Pacheco,
straight line, straight line speed power. You're just gonna run

(57:06):
you over. You know, you're not gonna not a lot
of wiggle there, but you know, tell him where the
hole is. You're gonna hit it and it's gonna be painting.
He asked to bring him down. And that's what Pacheco was.
It's not like he was some sort of dynamic runner.
You know that. You can't believe everybody missed on until
the seventh round. The Chiefs used him perfectly for what
they needed. And I think I'm with you, Poblok. I
have no problems with the running back room. I just
wish I knew more about it. Yeah, you know, I

(57:27):
wish I That's that's my only issue that too. You know,
I was so high on Isaiah Spiller just looking at
what he did at A and M, you know, and
and the fact that we didn't see him this year
was disappointing because now you go into year two and
you're like, well, why why didn't he get more run? Like,
you know, especially if they had trouble running the football?
Why didn't he get more run last year? So you

(57:48):
know a lot of this offseason Pop is just gonna
be kind of projection when it comes to um Spiller.
But I'm with you, like, like we saw in Money,
and I sat down with Josh in training camp and
he looked like a different dude. He was joking that
he dropped the raising canes and you know, changed his
diet and everything, and you could definitely see that, Yeah

(58:09):
that was all real. He was not joking like he
did all like he himself. Yeah. Yeah, but yeah, you're right,
I think injuries basically the charges. They need to figure
out what that plan is though week one and make
sure that that's a successful plane. Pop, let's just say,
you know, not being ridiculous, you know Jalen Carter's not

(58:31):
fall into twenty one, but just give us a name,
like who would you like to see it, like realistic, realistic,
Who would you like to see a twenty one that
you think could be there? Jordan Addison, Yeah, that's the guy.
Like I'm I'm with you money, Like like the case
you were making about just add weapons, Just give me weapons,
just invest in this offense. Because they tried to run
this run the thing back year over year. They didn't

(58:53):
really make a ton of changes. You know, they added
Zion and Gerald Everett, but that was pretty much it.
Like if you have a quarterback that's that good and
you're in a division with Patrick Mahomes, like, just get weapons,
elite weapons, and if the you know a lot of
people have him as the top receiver on the board,
if you can get him at twenty one, like got
some big playability, can make some plays after the catch,

(59:13):
like create some explosivity with your offense. Here's one you know,
that's what that's the direction. Now would go Yeah, all right,
Chris Kincaide and Addison are both available at twenty one.
Now I'm taking the tight end, right, I think I'm
taking kincaide. Yeah right, I get my own, give me,
give me my own Kelsey exactly. And look, it's stupid
to say he's Travis Kelsey, whos arguably be going to

(59:35):
go down as the greatest pass catching tight end of
all time. But I'm with everybody talked about, oh what
are you gonna do with Tyreek Hill? Gone, yeah, you
can't cover Travis Kelsey. You can't. It's not possible. And
I think, um, but I just don't know if he's
gonna Yeah, there there is a case for him to slide, right,
he's what twenty four, I think he's twenty four, twenty

(59:55):
five had the injuries. But man, you look at that
production and it's eight touchdowns, eleven touchdowns, eleven touchdowns, like
sixteen touchdowns year after year after It's crazy what the
production is. It's so Kelsey ask but I'm I'm with you,
two pop. I think Addison of all the guys. You know,
people are excited about the speed of Hyatt. It's little

(01:00:17):
bit too much of a one trick pony. I'd be
a little worried about that. And it's a one year deal.
You know. The look if Lane Kiffin was still the
head coach at at USC Addison would have had two
hundred catches for six thousand yards. That's the way they
can fend him, you know. But but Lincoln is more
of a coach that's fine with just telling Caleb Ay

(01:00:39):
just wherever the open guy is, that's where you're gonna
put it. So he didn't have that season, and I'm
hoping that leads him to get pushed down. I think
Kim Kaid ends up getting drafted inside the top fifteen.
I just I there's too much Travis Kelsey to his
game for that to happen. But I think you're right
on Addison. I think that's I think that's a realistic
fusibility that and a lot of it's gonna depend on

(01:01:01):
what he runs. You know, if he runs in the
low four fours, then zero chance. Um if he ends
up being that high. You know, if that low four five,
maybe maybe maybe maybe watch out for tight end though
it's gonna be a big part of this this offense
that Kellen Moore is building thinking which they had in Dallas.

(01:01:21):
So like they need they need all like legit, all
around tight ends that can play as run blockers, pass catchers,
like that's gonna be a big point of emphasis while
they build this offense. Guys, what's the drop off? What
do you think to drop Maybe not drop off because
there's kind of two different players, but Mayor from Notre
Dame versus Kincaid, You know what would your Mayor is
the full tight end Kincaid's he does the Kaids Travis Kelsey.

(01:01:45):
Mayor is more your Hackinson Um. You know, if you
watch Mayor, he's he's great, but like it just it
doesn't look like Kinkaid Kincaid. There's separation, there's no receivers,
there's nobody around him, and they're trying to stop him,
and all of a sudden you just it's like Kelsey.
It's like, you know, that's the guy you have to stop,
and yet why is he wide open? Because that's just
how good he is. That's how Kincaid's been at Utah. Mayor,

(01:02:07):
you know, you put him on the edge and he
can block, but when he catches the ball, there's guys
around him and there's not that suddenness, and it's just
he's still great. Hockinson is great. You know, he's a
great player. I just think that's at least that's kind
of how I would classify it is. I think that's
you're talking about. If you want to say, what's their ceiling,

(01:02:28):
I think it's Hawkinson Mayor and you know Kelsey Kincaid.
Those are the more of the style of tight we're
talking about, and that's again ceiling. That's best case. It
all works out perfectly for these first round tight ends.
I just think that's the style that you're talking about.
Pop will get you out of here on this. We're

(01:02:49):
not there in Indy. You are beyond the combine. Just
where are you eating? Are you doing a hops with pop?
You have a special Indianapolis beer that you're going to
break out, like what's been going on at night in Indianapolis?
That's where all the fun happens. Yeah, just you know
you're schmoozing, well Prime forty seven Action, well, uh, Saint

(01:03:09):
Elmo's action. Too much steak, too much mashed potatoes. I
need a salad. Someone please send me a salad. I
forgot your lead beer guy. I mean, like, yeah, I
I but that's just that's that's just I like I
like to have. Yeah, I'm not like a snobby like okay,
you know, I'll yeah, I like I drink bud light, Okay,

(01:03:31):
and I feel like it, you know, so I'm not
like that snobby like, you know, but I like a
good I PA. You know, there's a the best IPA
in my opinion or in the conversation in the world,
is based in Indiana. It is UH. And they cannot
ship UH domestically. They can only stay in states that
touch Indiana. So you can only get it if you're

(01:03:51):
you know, in Indiana or Kentucky or Illinois or Ohio
or Wisconsin or Michigan. You get the point. Uh. It's
three floyds and it's called Zombie Dust. So I've had
while your while you're you've had it, I'm appreciate. Well, yeah,
I would. I would imagine you could while you're or
Alpha King if you want to get something a little
bit heavier, if you like the heavier ip and the
Alpha king is they're heavier. Zombie Dust is there kind

(01:04:12):
of straight down the middle IPA Alpha kan Is they're
a little heavier. All right, I'll keep an eye out
for it. And you know what, space Station middle Finger
also very good. That's another indie beer. That's another They're
all three floyds, they're on a Monthster Indiana, Northwest Indiana.
All right, great, great stuff. I'll look it after that, huh.
I will partner Popper best in the business, buddy. We

(01:04:34):
appreciate you. It's been in an hour with us, my goodness. Yeah,
no problem. We had to catch up. We had a
lot to get to and I'm sure we'll do it
again soon. And guess what, we still don't know anything.
We don't know what. Yeah, best time of the year
to speculate until you're until you get a horse from
yelling about different things, and then you're not gonna know
until Marsh fifteenth anyway. So yeah, it's great, all right

(01:04:58):
from Indie for money, I'm Chris. This is has been
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