April 13, 2023 • 43 mins
Matt "Money" Smith and Chris Hayre are joined by The Film Room’s Brett Kollmann to discuss his latest deep dive into what offensive coordinator Kellen Moore will bring to Los Angeles, best fits for the Chargers in the 2023 NFL Draft, the AFC West landscape and more.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The late fifteen ten touchdown. What's up, guys, Welcome into
a brand new episode of Chargers Weekly, as always, joined
by Matt Bunny Smith. We are two weeks away from
the twenty twenty three NFL Draft and Muddy, Big and
(00:22):
housby yesterday, you and you and Adrian gonna be hosting
that draft party, Agains. Tell me about it. You know,
we've done it a few different times now, and it's
always impressive. Charger fans come out, they hang out, they
wait for the pick, whether it was on the Santa
Monica Pier and they waited all the way until twenty
eight or last year. It's so far with you know,
(00:43):
just Snoop Dogg and I mean a heck of a party.
Probably had thirty thousand people in there. I don't think
I'm exaggerating. You know, twenty thirty thousand people in there
for the Snoop Dogg performance drafted Zion, So you know,
why not keep it going and we'll be outside. It'll
be kind of that atrium area of the Century City Westfield,
so I'm assuming you can pack a few thousand people
in there. Petros and I gonna come out do three
(01:04):
to five pm. It's kind of a warm up. Hopefully
get Coach Staley and Tom and maybe Justin and Derwin
out there and uh Atrian and I and you know
can also have him up there. So it's an opportunity
for you to come out, celebrate the Chargers and see
some of your favorite players, Justin, Herbert, Irwin, James including
It's exciting twenty one overall too. We don't know what
the Chargers are gonna do on that thing. They trade out,
(01:25):
it'll be a hell of a talk about a celebration.
Trade it out. They're gonna trade out drinking, get a
pair of twos, and money's gonna buy everybody. Right, I'm
gonna start dancing at jig is what I'm gonna do exactly. Look,
I'm looking forward to it. Um. Hey Chargers fans, they
know who Brett Coleman is. Brett just did an awesome
(01:46):
breakdown of Kellen Moore's offense, I think part one of two,
and brought a perfect person to have on He joins
us now as we get closer to the draft, and
Brett first, thanks for joining us, man, And I want
to start with that video because it was super oppressive.
It was highly produced and I think Chargers fans really
got to kick out of it. What was it like
(02:07):
putting that together? It was awesome just because the Chargers
media folks are incredibly talented, and you know, working with Andrew,
we go sit down over at Golden Road and we
were sketching out exactly how we wanted to come out.
And you know, he had worked on detail with Peyton.
He's an NFL Films alum. So honestly, I didn't have
(02:29):
to do a whole lot. I show up, I record
my script, I gave it to Andrew and then he
makes it the most beautiful thing I had ever been
involved with. Like, it's just it's insane talent that the
Chargers have in their media team, you guys included. So
I'm just happy to be along for the ride. It's
a listen Charger fans if you haven't seen it, it's
Chargers dot Com. As you said, the ie candy is great,
(02:52):
but the breakdown is great. Bretton, I think if you
don't mind, just maybe walk through. I know it's not
the same without the visual and the exo of Ale
to you, but if you can just walk through, you know,
the personnel groupings, the different types of runs, that Kellen
Moore uses and why it's been so effective since he
took over, no matter who was running the ball Tony
polytter Zeke in Texas. Yeah, and they were kind of
(03:14):
a fascinating offense to study last year. And when I
took an even deeper dive obviously, you know, through a
Charger's lens of like what can we expect from Kellen
and I found myself shocked that he was even available
in the first place. I'm like, Okay, this was a
top four team in scoring. They were incredible in the
red zone, they were incredible generating explosive plays. I was like, this,
(03:38):
this is a phenomenal offense. And then when you think
about the fact that they did that without their starting
quarterback for a big chunk of the year, you know,
sustaining a whole bunch of offensive line injuries, and I'm like,
this was a masterful performance by an offensive coordinator and
kind of translating what he did with them to the Chargers,
(03:59):
I think this might be one of the best Chargers offenses,
you know, assuming everybody stays healthy. Obviously, I think in
terms of system fit with talent, this is I think
going to be one of the best Chargers offenses since
probably like oh six, like Prime, mid twenty tens Chargers,
because it's highly adaptable, it's highly aggressive. You know, he's
(04:20):
gonna let Justin be justin, meaning throw the ball down
the field. Obviously, we've got to get some deep speed
in the draft in the offseason, but like they prioritize
that the passing game, we are going to create conflict
and turn zone coverages into man coverage because once everything's
twenty yards down the field, it turns into man anyway, right,
So let's let Justin be Justin exploit that. And then
(04:42):
in the run game, you know, it's so versatile and
adaptable in terms of how he runs the ball against
specific fronts. Obviously they're gonna major in outside zone and
inside zone, but if you start seeing fronts that are
good against outside zone, like a bare front or a
tight front, he's gonna switch it up. He's gonna call count,
and he's gonna gash you with that. So he doesn't
just lean on one concept. He leans on everything. And
(05:06):
it sounds weird to say, take what the defense gives
you with the run game, but that's what he does,
and he's he's not he doesn't have such an ego
that he's like, I'm I'm gonna call what I'm gonna
call and it's gonna work. It's like, no, he scouts
what a defense does well, he adapts the middle of
the game, and he is such a wide variety of
plays that eventually there's not a whole lot you can
(05:29):
do against Kellen Moore's offense because eventually he's gonna get
into his group and he's gonna exploit what you don't
do well. And that's how they ended up at least
last year in Dallas as a top five scoring team
with a backup quarterback Brett. We talked about the personnel
did the Chargers have, especially up front. We know Rashaun
Slater missed most of the last year, there were some
injuries across the line. As we sit here today, Austin
(05:52):
Eckler's future still kind of up in the air with
the Chargers. Do you think, let's assume Austin comes back,
do you think that the personnel is there for Kellen
Moore to do what he did in Dallas with the
run game. You know, what he did with Zeke and
Pollard was remarkable. Did the Chargers have that sort of
personnel currently on their roster. I personally believe they do. Obviously,
(06:16):
I'd still love to get more depth. I don't think
you can have enough depth. But you know, some combination
of a starting five with Rashaan, Jamari, Lindsley, Zion and
then Pipkins like that starting five, you can absolutely run
the crap out of the ball with that, and it
also should be a pretty good pass protecting starting five
as well. You know, Jamari stepped in last year in
(06:40):
a huge spot that was almost impossible shoes to fill,
and he filled them. Now I'm not quite sure what
side he's going to play on or what position he's
going to play on this year because Rashaan is coming back.
But the fact that we know he can do it
and we know that they'll sort that out over the
summer of like, let's just get the best five in
the field, that gives me a lot of think. It
sounds like he's gonna go right guard Bread is sort
of what they alluded to. I think they're gonna kick
(07:02):
Zion left, so he'll be sandwiched between Corey and Rashaan,
going back to his original position at BC, And they've
kind of said it at least that's what it looks
like they're gonna do. They've sort of alluded to that
that Jamari will slot in right guard, you know, inside
a tray there, and like you said, you know, it's
that five, and that's perfectly fine with me. And honestly,
that's probably the best Chargers offensive line that we've seen
(07:23):
in a while. Again, still need some depth behind that
in case guys get hurt, but you can absolutely, you know,
run the ball against numbers with that starting five because
they're so good and we are going to see a
lot of people drop safeties in the box. They're gonna
have eight in the box, and you would think that
just counting numbers, you shouldn't run the ball against that,
(07:45):
But if you're calling the right run against the right front,
the numbers kind of don't matter as much. You just
have to have a good offensive line and know how
to execute, and they absolutely have that. Really, the one
thing I think they need to complete this whole thing
is just like a deep threat to take things over
the top. Like Mike is a good deep threat, but
it's more in the sense of like winning fifty fifty
(08:05):
balls and body control and all that kind of stuff.
You know, Keena is a phenomenal route runner. He's mister
third down, but like we really need like that one
guy with gas to threaten things over the top. And
that's kind of it. Other than that, I think the
offense is good to go and something you know, a
unit that I think could put up thirty plus points
a game. You mentioned it in the in the video,
(08:28):
just the personnel groupings and how they're running a lot
of a twelve or two tight ends and you kind
of look at the tight end room and you know,
Trey McKitty was drafted as kind of that blocking let's
hope he can kind of get a little receiving action
going Gerald Everett. We kind of know what he is.
He's been in the league long enough. It feels like
Donald Palm is still evolving in perhaps becoming that complete
(08:50):
tight end. When you look at that group and you
kind of think of what might be available, like, well,
I'll just start there. Do you think they need to
add to that group based on what Kellen Moore had
in Dallas last year and how he uses those tight ends.
It's possible, but they would have to have like a
monster grade on one of these guys coming out whether
(09:13):
it's Dalton Kinkaid, Darnel Washington, Musgrave mayor from Notre Dame
Laporta from Iowa. Like to me, them taking a tight
end early would be because they are just so smitten
with one of those guys that they can't leave home
without him. And it's possible Kinkaid is that guy. I
(09:33):
wouldn't be surprised. He's generally seen as like the most
dangerous tight end in this class. But I also like,
I'm fine with the group they have now if they
end up going in a different direction. You know, let's
say we need a nickel, we need a safety, or both.
When it comes to Brian Branch, Let's say we invest
in a a receiver early, offensive line depth, defensive line depth.
(09:54):
If tight end is the one position they just don't
get to, they'll be fine with this group. But that
being said, I wouldn't be sad to see Justin throwing
at Dalton Kincaid on Sundays either, because he is just
a ridiculous receiving tat end talent. So then just the
flip side of that, Bret is the receiver. Because you
kind of just talk about pass catchers in general in
(10:17):
terms of what might be there at twenty one or
if you when you say speakers for people who don't
know Bret, you do incredible work breaking down draft prospects
as well, so you know all of these players when
you just look at the wide receivers that are available,
kind of the way it's been described, at least my
interpretation of it is it's a deep class. It's not
necessarily an elite class. So what's available to them in
(10:39):
rounds two, three, four, whatever, versus what might be available
to them at twenty one. Say it's Za Flowers, Jordan Addison,
you know, versus again just kind of just pure speed
that might be available to them later in the draft,
and what might be the better path there to me?
I mean, my wide receiver one of this class is
a Flowers. You know, watch him on tape. He's the
(11:01):
most complete package of vertical explosiveness combined with ability to
beat press coverage. I know people bring up the weight
he went up to one eighty three in the offseason.
I don't think it particularly matters, because even if a
press corner is bigger and stronger than you, if they
can't touch you, doesn't really matter that much. And corners
really struggle touching him off the line. He's so quick
(11:23):
and so fluid and so explosive. Great route runner, you know,
has a few concentration drops here and there, but I
would still say he has good hands and he's a
crazy good threat after the catch two. In terms of
talent verse fit, he's the best one in this class.
I think for the Chargers specifically, you know, getting that
complimentary guy to Mike and Keenan who eventually could could
(11:46):
grow into being even more than just a compliment. He
could be a focal point if they don't get Zay Flowers,
which I think is possible because I think he could
go as high as like fourteen to the Patriots if
he's not on the board. Addison is also possible. I
feel like he and Keenan do a lot of similar things,
(12:08):
so you know, maybe he doesn't bring like quite the
different dimension in terms of like pure speed, but he's
still a great player. He'd still be a great charger
if we just want like a pure speed player, you know,
looking at day two, day three, that's where I'm probably
looking at, Like Marvin Mims from Oklahoma, Jaden Reid from
(12:29):
Michigan State to me, is just like another t Y Hilton, Like,
I kind of just have him to the Chargers in
pencil right now if they don't take receiver in the
first round, because he is perfect for them, legit, low
four four speed, great ball skills, great route runner. Again,
he's smaller, so he's gonna go lower, but like he
fills the role. And then in terms of like super
(12:50):
late guys, I would probably well not even super late,
like Jonathan Mingo from Ole Miss. He does bring that
that speed element, but he's also a lot bigger. He's
one of those typical old Miss receivers. It's like two
hundred and thirty pounds, it runs four four and we
have no idea how he defies physics. But he's another
guy would consider in the third round for them, And
I think you kind of hit the nail on the head.
(13:10):
It's not an elite receiver class, but there's just a
ton of dudes in the top one fifty, so if
they don't get one early, they're still fine. But boy,
I really love Za Flowers in powder blue. That's kind
of like my main one right there. Yeah, Money Money
mentioned that yesterday we were not yesterday last week. We're
(13:33):
guessing who the charge would select the twenty one right
one of you had Zaza Flowers at twenty one there,
maybe it's trying to manifest or something, Brett, can you
set the scene for us in this first round? So
the Chargers select twenty one. Overall, there's a chance five
quarterbacks go in the first round. Who knows. Outside of
(13:55):
those quarterbacks, it kind of moves the Chargers up to seventeen.
Let's say there is a lot of position groups that
I think would be ideal for the Chargers. I look
at edge with Joey and Khalil's age. If somebody drops there.
We talked about wide receiver and tight end. What are
some of the stronger position groups in this draft, and
(14:16):
maybe a couple of guys that you wouldn't be surprised
if they were there at twenty one that that maybe
a little bit better than than twenty one. Overall, I
think in terms of strength of this draft class, the
best three or I guess technically four positions would be
tight end, edge, corner, and running back. That those have
(14:38):
the best combination of like top end talent plus depth,
and it's it's a good year for the Chargers because
I think they could use another corner. They could use potentially,
depending on what happens with Austin Eckler, they might be
in need of a running back over the next couple
of weeks. Here tight end is a maybe we went
over that, I think, And then I guess it depends
(15:02):
on how you qualify nickel versus corner and everything like that,
because I know that the Chargers specifically like they could
take an outside corner, they could take a nickel, because
it's not take can do both. It really just depends
on who's on the board, where they where they value guys.
And I think that you know, the strength of this
draft class line up well with what the Chargers need,
especially if they're looking for another edge, you know, to
(15:23):
go behind Joey and Khalil as well. One one position
that I don't think has been considered enough for the
Chargers depending on how the first round breaks is outside corner.
And this is kind of roundabout logic for me when
you go back to the playoff game and I don't
want to I don't want to belavor it too much
(15:43):
because I know it hurts. The Michael Davis injury changed
that game, and if Michael Davis didn't get hurt, they
without a doubt would have won that game because when
Michael Davis went out all of a sudden, they didn't
have a bigger, longer press corner that told play the
backside against all those three by one looks that the
chart or that the Jaguars were throwing at them, and
(16:05):
so you know, they moved to Sante around they brought
into Seer, and it's just it changed the types of
coverages they could call. And even though yes, nickel is
a need and safety is a need and Brian Branch
would fill both of those roles, I think back to
if Michael Davis knock On Wood isn't on the field, again,
(16:29):
do they have anybody that can do that? And I
don't necessarily think they do, And so I think having
another press man corner in the first round just in
their back pocket as a sneaky like breake glass in
case of emergency pick, it's absolutely possible. Like Deante Banks
from Maryland, you know, if Joey Porter Junior falls that far,
like he's a perfect fit because when we go into nickel,
(16:52):
you can always kick a Sante inside and he can
play nickel for you. And then you just have these
two big, hulking press corners on the outside. Brandon would
love because that gives him more flexibility in terms of
how he can call the coverage as he wants to call.
So I know that we're infatuated with the receiver and
I would love that. And I know we're infatuated with
like hybrid safety Nickel like Brian Branch. I would love
(17:14):
that even And I want to pause you right there
just because when you evaluate the one thing about Branch
and I know, the measurables or the measurables, Man, he
plays big like he is a I hate saying it,
but he's a dog like that dude will bust your ass. Like,
how how do you do How do you think teams
evaluate that? Like, yeah, I know he's you know, like
(17:36):
the whole teams have I'm not taking a corner under
five eleven or I'm not taking a corner under one
hundred ninety five. They have those benchmarks. But man, when
you just watch that guy on tape, it just looks
like he's gonna rough you up, like you are not
going to get the better of him. So how you
how do you value that when you're trying to because
like for us, I think we've seen it so many times.
(17:56):
It's not just the press man, it's the corner, it's
making a tackle. It's thinking back to week you know,
thinking back to week eighteen two years ago with Jacobs,
you know, carrying Assante as a backpack for eight yards
to put him into field goal range even though he
was there to make the stop. You know, like you
said last year, same thing. It's a third one. They
(18:18):
run the jet sweep and you can't make the tackle. So, like,
how does that come into the evaluation process for someone
like Branch that it felt like was really getting a
lot of love and was getting pushed up in the
middle of that first round and now for whatever reason,
we're seeing him perhaps be devalued. And who knows what
is a smokescreen and what's not. And Branch is a
classic example of people getting way to beholden to testing
(18:39):
numbers and they forget what their eyes said, which is
this is a really good football player who, like you said,
makes an impact on all three downs. And what people
don't realize is as a like nicol is the hardest
spot to play on defense? You ask anybody, like, it's
the hardest spot because you have two way go and
(19:00):
coverage constantly. You have to be involved in the run
fit on every single play. You're involved in the past
rushes of Blitzer like Nickel is the spot and if
you don't have a good one, you don't have a
good defense, quite frankly, and I think when people watch
Brian Branch play and they see the impact that he
had on Alabama, everybody was all in and all of
a sudden, you know, he goes out and has these
(19:21):
testing numbers, and people like forget that for six months,
we're like, oh, this is a top fifteen player in
the draft. And I'll say this, I think the difference
between you know, fan perception and team perception is teams
these days, especially once with fleshed out analytics departments, they
get all the GPS data from the pads and they
(19:43):
use that to model play speed into like a projected
forty yard dash time, Like teams do that these days.
So like forty yard dashes are like quote unquote important,
but not really because if your model says, hey, this
guy plays at a four to four eight when he
has pads on, you don't really care if he runs
for six in spandex because you now have the ability
(20:04):
to quantify game speed in ways that you didn't be
able to do ten years ago. And Brian Branch's game
speed is insane, So I think that he's going to
go higher than maybe fans expect because teams have numbers
to back up what their I'd say, Brett, you know,
the one thing I think about with Corner two is
(20:24):
just the uncertainty around J. C. Jackson and when he's
going to be ready, because you know, there's a lot
of money invested in him and at this point we
don't know when he's gonna be ready. So you know,
that's why I think to your point, Corner is a
is a sneaky knee that you know. Money brought up
a great point too about having to pay Michael Davis
here in a couple of years and having to pay
(20:45):
Asante after that and this year. Yeah, you got you
gotta get younger at Corner and plan for the future
while at the same time kind of work on this
parallel paths of getting justin everything he needs offensively so
they can compete for a Super Bowl. So you know,
I guess we've been going back and forth, but hey,
just load up on offense, right, you know, money has
(21:07):
the philosophy which I agree with, is, hey, you got
you gotta outscore the Chiefs and the Bills and everybody
else in the AFC. So you're not stopping them, and
you're not stopping them. Yeah, you're not stopping him. So
so at twenty one, do you think offense weighs a
little heavier with all that being said, knowing what you're
competing against in the a f C this year, It does,
(21:31):
but it also has to be the right guy, right,
Like if Bijean Robinson falls into our lap, I'm just
I'm looking up and saying thank you, But I also
don't expect him to. You know that a lot on
this podcast. But do people think that Bijean's going to
be there? Some do? Um? I think they're at least
(21:52):
it feels like the Eagles make sense at ten right
for how they want to play and what they want
to do. And then after that, it feels like maybe
the Patriots the way they draft the value they don't
give a damn about what the rules are. Right in
the draft, you could see that. But I guess the
Lions with their second pick, right, we know the offense
they want to run. So yeah, Brad, I'd be surprised.
(22:14):
You know what though, So if you can you know
Chris's point there about about Bijean and adding to the offense.
I saw the breakdown you did with your I think
it was the hidden Gems and you had Roshan Johnson
and you were taught the way you were framing the conversation.
You used the Chargers. That was the team that you used,
like hey, yes, here's Bijean, but then here's this other
(22:36):
guy that you could get in the second or the
third instead, And this is how it would really work
in an offense like say the Chargers. And that's what's
unfortunate about Roshan as he was on a team with
Bijean for all that time. Right when if he goes
to any other team, you know, he's probably looked at
as like an easy top hundred pick. And I still
(22:57):
think he will be a top hundred pick. But he
reminds me a lot of like Brian Robinson from Alabama
last year, where it's this overlooked guy who didn't really
you know, and Brian Robinson didn't get his full shot
till his last year's senior year, and he stuck it
out and he waited behind a whole bunch of dudes,
and Roshan unfortunately was behind Bijean for the last three years,
but he was still putting up a six yards to
carry and he's a former quarterback, so you could do
(23:18):
some real funky stuff in the red zone, like you know,
if we're getting into wildcat and all that kind of
stuff you want to call something weird, you pick Roshan Johnson,
But he's a way better athlete than he's given credit for.
Good pass protector, good receiver, absolutely runs over people, great size,
extremely solid running back. Again, I still in terms of
like projected pick, he's gonna go ninety picks behind Bijan
(23:41):
for a reason. But if they don't get Bijean, I
would be all over Roshan Johnson in like the third
round and just love it if he was in La Brett.
Do you remember your evaluation of Isaiah Spiller. I was
actually I wasn't. I wasn't the biggest Isaiah Spiller guy.
(24:02):
It doesn't mean that I have like a low grade
on him. I just happened to have some really really
high grades on a whole bunch of guys ahead of him. Honestly,
what was what was hard about my Spiller evaluation was
he was running being green who was just caving in
defensive lines and giving like these eight yard canyons. And
I was like, I know, he can make a move,
(24:23):
but he just hasn't really had too because the Texas
Texas anim offensive line was absolutely obliterating people. But I
thought he was like a really solid prospect, you know,
potentially a three down guy, you know, your classic like
number two that if Austin needed a blow on the sideline,
you could put Spiller in there and be totally fine.
(24:44):
I never necessarily saw like game breaking ability, but I
definitely thought he thought he was really solid. So if
just kind of going back and Chris, sorry, I got
off the question you're asking there. So let's let's say
that you know, Zay is there, Bijan is there. Um,
(25:05):
you're not going to get one of the top two
corners there, whether Spoon Agnsalis, they won't be there. Um,
so what if it is those two? You know, and
and you've got a joke you've got to kind of
choose between Za and Bijean, and you kind of know
what those it's just you know, that's that's a to me,
that's a tough one. It's extraordinarily tough. Um. By the way,
(25:27):
it's an exceptional problem to have too. Yeah, right, so
let's go sign me up for that problem. Great problem
to have. I know the analytics would say go receiver
every single time. I understand that. But I also I
understand the type of coach that that Brandon's Daley is.
And this is somebody who really loves to establish pace
(25:49):
in the game and establish physicality in the game and
uses the run game um to to kind of get
the game into a groove, right, um to get justin
into a group to give second and six, not second
and eight. And Bijan's the type of running back that
will get you second and six even if it's blocked
for a second and eight, right. And I think having
(26:12):
the type of running back which they haven't necessarily had
over the last few years, of somebody who can get
fifteen carries and five catches or fifteen carries and ten
catches and you get twenty plus touches, which is a
very rare thing in the NFL these days. It's very
few backs that ever average twenty plus touches a game.
Bijean is one of the guys that I think can
(26:33):
do it, but he can do it in multiple ways.
He can do it as a receiver or as a runner.
You can give him low red zone carries, you can
give him high leverage, short yardage carries. Third and seven,
say go out there and win, not just against linebackers,
but against safeties. He can do that. And I think
having that type of running back that we know Staley
likes to establish pace and control of a game in
(26:55):
addition to having explosive game breaking ability, it's a rare
thing to have. And I think you can still get
that speed element in the receiving core, like we talked
about with some of those guys on Day two, in
Day three, because there are a bunch of them, I
don't necessarily think you can get a b John Robinson
in Day two or Day three. And he's one of
the three best players in this draft class. So I'm
(27:17):
not going to look a gift horse in the mouth. Hey,
let's take a quick break, and we got a couple
more questions for Brett all right, guys, is the official
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(27:37):
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and Germany for the twenty twenty three NFL International Games.
(28:00):
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(28:21):
You know Brett, Because we talk about Bijan, it doesn't
mean that we don't love Austin Ekeler. And if he
is back and you have those two guys in the backfield,
I mean we've seen Austin, especially especially during like the
Melvin Gordon days. We've seen him line up on the outside.
You can use Austin everywhere too, So I don't know
if you could just talk about what this offense could
look like, especially with Kellen Moore calling the plays, having
(28:43):
a guy like Bijan or somebody comparable with Austin Ekeler.
And we saw what they did last year in Dallas
with Pollard and Zeke on the field at the same time. Yeah,
and they ran a whole bunch of two back runs
with two halfbacks, not a fullback, but a half back
because they would use Zeke to block for Tony. And
if you can run a twenty one personnel run with
(29:05):
two guys on the field that could both potentially get
the rock and house that thing, it completely changes how
a defense reacts because let's just say, you know, we
get we get Bijean and Austro on the field at
the same time. Austin's in the slot, Bijean's in the backfield.
You know, we get Trey McKitty at the why, and
(29:28):
then all of a sudden, we put Austin in the backfield,
we move Bijean up to be a fullback. You're still
not quite trusting that it's going to be a two
back run because all of a sudden, we can run
fullback scene with Beijean Robinson. He can house it for
sixty yards, so you're still kind of slow to get
downhill and play against. You know, let's say we're calling
like two back power or something like that, because we
(29:49):
know Bijan can and will block like he's all about that.
But if if the linebacker just hesitates a little bit
all of a sudden, that creates a massive crack, not
to mention, you can do some really fun stuff off
play action with that. You know, you can go. You
can go four strong. They did that in Dallas with
(30:10):
Zeke and Pollard running four strong, meaning four to the
strong side one guy you know, which is probably be
Mike on the backside. Like, you can do some wild
stuff with both of them on the field. It's not
an either or, it's a yes and and I if
Austin comes back, I would love that because him and
Bijon together would be I'm not even kidding, the best
(30:31):
running back duel in the league day one. So that
this works to go into this conversation, Chris alluded to
it a little bit earlier Brett, and look, you can
call it. It's not confirmation or recency bias. Maybe it's
just scar tissue. I've seen, you know, calling games for
the Chargers since twenty seventeen. I can't tell you how
(30:51):
many four point three point leads that I've seen against
top offenses in this league, particularly the Chiefs. There's no
better way to punch your ticket into the tournament and
to win the division. That don't hold they lead, they
lose the lead. You know how it's gonna end. You're
just waiting for the other shoe to drop. It's nothing
against Brandon Staley or this Chargers defense, because he does
(31:13):
it to everybody. You know. He did it to the
Eagles who had seventy sacks in the year and scored
thirty five points and couldn't prevent them from scoring thirty eight.
What's I've made the case just offense that you've got
Joey Boza, Khalil Mack, Derwin James, you have got a
stacked defense that DC's would line up to be able
to coach, and they can't stop him. So what's the
(31:35):
point of even adding to it. Why not just say
screw it, we got to score thirty eight. Thirty one
is not going to do it, and that's the way
we've got to win the AFC. West does that make
sense to you, because I'm sure it doesn't for Brandon Staley,
defensive minded coach. But that's sort of the predicament that
I'm trying to put him in. I mean, so I
was at the Chargers Chiefs game and so far last year. Yeah,
(31:57):
I was down to a Lower Bowl for that game,
and it was the first time I've ever seen Mahomes live.
Obviously you've seen him live many times at this point,
and there's this almost like sense of dread and inevitability,
you know, when he gets the percent two minutes And
I would really prefer that script be flipped, where don't
(32:18):
you dare give Justin Herbert the ball with two minutes left, which,
to a degree it already is like I think the
Chiefs the only team they're really scared of is the
Chargers because the Chargers play them better than anybody consistently. Yeah,
And I would really love it if if we just
kind of lean into Justin Herbert is the big bad wolf.
Give him everything he needs, and as long as he
(32:40):
has the ball last, we're good. We're winning the game.
It's the big twelve, literally twelve, that's it. Just let
him score. Make sure you leave us sixty five seconds
and you're good, You'll win the game. It just it feels,
it feels as though in the AFC right now, on
that path to the Super Bowl, it's Burrow, it's Josh Allen,
(33:03):
it's Patrick Mahomes, and it's only gonna get tougher, you know,
it's it's only it's only going to get harder. It's
so I think, you know, not to just reiterate, it's
you've already said it all, but like that, it just
feels like that's the right approach, Like it's it's it's
foolish to think your defense is gonna shut all of
these offenses down and route to a Super Bowl berth.
(33:24):
And we haven't even got to twenty twenty four when
Kayleb Williams and Drake May are coming like exactly the
two Yeah, like what do you do? NFC? Yeah? And
bread the face. You know. It's it's funny too, because
we've been talking about Lamar and where's Lamar gonna go?
And all of a sudden, I guess ob J makes
everything fine. I don't know, I mean, I guess Lamar
is gonna stay in the AFC. So there's yet another
(33:45):
another threat in the conference at the quarterback position. You
mentioned Kayleb Williams and in May coming out next year. Um,
I'm with money, man, I just think you have to
load up offensively. Um, we're kind of in that third
and fourth and fifth wave of free agency coming. I
guess over the next month. Is there anybody out there,
especially at the wide receiver position, with speed that you
(34:08):
think could be a nice fit for this offense? Oh Man?
In terms of still available, Um, off top, here's a
reason they're still available, right, Yeah? Yeah, yeah. I mean
defensively last year they made some big moves getting Morgan
Fox and Kyle Vannoy late and and those guys all
contributed late in the year. But offensively, I think it's
(34:31):
a little bit more of a challenge. Yeah, because if
you can run four four, you're gonna have a job
usually before April starts. Yeah, So I think if they
are going to get that, it is going to be
through the draft. Luckily for them, there's a million dudes
in this class that can run four four. I'm looking,
I don't see him. I'm on Greg Rosenthal's top one
hundred still available. There's not a single receiver. So I
(34:54):
think they've they've all been uh, they've all been snatched up.
And it's like you said that the good news is
depth in the in the draft. Let's say, you know what, Brett,
let's let's at least entertain the idea that that Brandon
Staley's got some pull in that war room when twenty
one is up there, and look, there's there's some interesting
(35:17):
defensive players. We already talked about Brian Branch you mentioned more.
We have not talked about the defensive lineman. I think
the one that a lot of people have kind of
sort of at least put a pin in and kind
of said, oh, you know, Brandon Staleaklijah Cancy, Is he
Aaron Donald? No? But you know there are some of
those at least characteristic, same uniform, same penetrating ability. Just
(35:41):
kind of your thoughts of maybe the players defensively that
might be available that could make a big impact on
a team that has its sights set on the Super
Bowl this year. You know, I think a big thing is, Okay,
we're prioritizing insider outside because it's two very different skill sets.
If they're looking at an edge or really just a
(36:03):
either an outside linebacker or or like a true defensive end.
If we're looking there, I would I would kind of
like to find Staley's new version of Leonard Floyd, like
a young Leonard Floyd, somebody who can play that Sam
linebacker role, which really is like a jack of all trades,
master of none type thing, like obviously contributes as a
pass rusher, drops in coverage quite frequently, you know, especially
(36:28):
when they're doing like all the bonus fire zone stuff,
like they need somebody who can handle that type of
load going backward and forward. Tennessee's Byron Young, I think,
is somebody who I look for at that spot because
he's ultra athletic, like insanely athletic, super fluid would have
to be coached up a little bit. But in terms
(36:48):
of like here's the ball of clay and Brandon just
gets to work with that and turn it into like
Leonard Floyd with a jet pack, I think Buyer and Young,
the Tennessee Byron Young, not the Alabama Buyer and Young.
I know, very confused because the same thing. But he's
one I'll be looking at. In terms of interior guys,
I'm looking at Okay, who can play anything from a
(37:08):
two eye to a five technique. You know Fox, He's
gonna you know, hold down the Ford as like a
five technique to four eye. But who's somebody who I
could potentially kick even further inside? And I look at
Keanu Benton from Wisconsin, who, to me, reminds me a
lot of Cam Hayward. You know, he's got a wrestling background,
fantastic pass rusher, really good athlete, but also as the
(37:32):
size and the nastiness that you know, if we're playing
like a four down flex front where we have him
as a two eye and then you know, really any
any of the other Chargers defensive Linman company three technique
on the other side, I think Keanu Benton being that
super quick, physical two eye that can also provide pass
(37:52):
rush fertilities is a piece that Brandon would really really
love to have. And then in terms of like, Okay,
who's the best pass rusher. Let's say, God forbid, Joey
goes down, Kleu goes down. Who's somebody that we can
bring in right now and get after the past or
rushed the pastor two day. I would look at probably,
(38:16):
oh God, who would even be there at twenty one
to a plot Nolan Smith. I probably expect to be
top fifteen Polo too, I think at least has a
decent shot of being there. He has inside outside versatility.
Derek Hall from Auburn. I would love Will McDonald from
Iowa State who I know Brandon would love Will McDonald
(38:37):
because he's a five tech that played played two hundred
and sixty pound five technique Like that's catnip for Staley.
Also super Bendi and all these guys potentially could be
there at twenty one. So in terms of like big
big picture in terms of where the Chargers can go
in the draft, the answers anywhere they have them out
(38:58):
by the way, just trade back and they probably talked
about the depth, that's what that that that'd be the
best case. To me, they probably will just because I
think that the two guys that you can't really pass
on RS and Bijan if they're not there, like might
as well get value and go yeah. Yeah. But the
last one for me, and this is kind of shifting
(39:19):
out of the draft and focusing on the division. Just
your thoughts on what the division has done so far
this offseason, obviously with the Broncos and Sean Payton that
fit with Russell Wilson, McDaniels, getting Garoppolo and some guys
that I think better fit what he wants to do.
Where do the Chargers kind of fit in this pecking
(39:42):
order in the AFC West? Knowing the Chiefs of the
Chiefs and kind of the drastic moves that have been
made with the with Denver in Vegas, I still have them. Uh, Like,
if I was going to project wins right now pre draft,
I would still have them above Denver. I would still
have them above the Raiders. The Chiefs is like maybe
because they're the Chiefs, But the Chargers right now, on paper,
(40:05):
I think are the only team that could really go
toe to toe with KC. And I think that that
kind of bared itself out in the regular season two
right like they they gave them the worst scares, and
if they were healthy, they probably would have at least
split and made the playoffs and seen them again in
January or gone gone past, gone past the round and
(40:27):
seen them again later in January. I've obviously, you know,
the Michael Davis injury, like we alluded to, was big
for them. But like, the Chargers are the threat to
KC to me because not only are they talented, but
schematically like when I watch as an aside, there was
a video that I did during the season about like
the goal line shovel pass that Kansas City runs all
(40:48):
the time, and how they are literally the only team
in the NFL that's good at it, like the only one,
and even then their success rate is still like forty
everybody else is like half. That they're the only team
that makes it work, the only team that plays against
their shovel pass well, and the only reason why they're
below fifty percent is because they called it a bunch
(41:08):
of times against the Chargers, and the Chargers stopped at
every single time. So like, even from a schematic standpoint,
the Chargers are the only team that really understands Andy
Reid and really understands Spagnolo, and from a schematic standpoint,
they play against them, it's a dog fight every single time,
and the Chiefs know that they know they're in for
a brawl. And if the Chargers should stay healthy, truly
(41:31):
just stay healthy. Their combination of talent and I think
you know the quality of their coaching staff in terms
of game planning against case, they are the threat to
the Chiefs, and I think the Chiefs know that I'm good.
Follow them, Brett Coleman two Tis two L's two ends
YouTube channels. Great, you're going to see those videos. The
(41:52):
one is already up breaking down the run. I would
assume we're pretty much going to get the one on
the pass here and day now at chargers dot com.
So they're great. Videos are great. Get you ready for
the draft? Awesome insight. Really enjoyed it, Brett, Thanks man,
Thank you for having me. Brett. You're the man that's
gonna do it for us. We got two more weeks.
(42:12):
We'll get another guest on next week. Get you closer
to the twenty twenty three draft. Chargers like twenty one overall,
and if they don't use the pick and trade out
money and drinks for everybody, get the atrium right about that?
I don't know about that. We'll drink together. We'll have
a drink together. How about that. I'll I'll buy a
(42:34):
handful of them, but not all of them. I think
they're supposed to be thousands of people, so that could
set me back. I still got kids in college, for
God's sakes. Yeah, I can't do that to you, all right?
For Brett and buddy up Chris has a bit chargers weekly.
All Right, Guys is the official hospitality partner of the NFL.
On Location offers unrivaled access to experience all premiere NFL
events like never before. On Location brings you up close
(42:57):
for all the action, providing fans with unforget moments from
Draft Day to Super Bowl Sunday and everything in between.
On Location thrilled to announce its new partnership with the
Pro Football Hall of Fame this August kick off football
season and can't Ohio and be there live to witness
the class of twenty twenty three enshrinment. The NFL also
headed back to London and Germany for the twenty twenty
(43:19):
three NFL International Games. On Location official packages will feature
game tickets to luxe hotel, accommodations, private tours, pregame hospitality,
end end planning, and much more. Be sure to secure
your priority access today visit NFL onlocation dot com or
search NFL on Location today. Your football experience of a
lifetime awaits only with on Location
The late fifteen ten touchdown. What's up, guys, Welcome into
a brand new episode of Chargers Weekly, as always, joined
by Matt Bunny Smith. We are two weeks away from
the twenty twenty three NFL Draft and Muddy, Big and
(00:22):
housby yesterday, you and you and Adrian gonna be hosting
that draft party, Agains. Tell me about it. You know,
we've done it a few different times now, and it's
always impressive. Charger fans come out, they hang out, they
wait for the pick, whether it was on the Santa
Monica Pier and they waited all the way until twenty
eight or last year. It's so far with you know,
(00:43):
just Snoop Dogg and I mean a heck of a party.
Probably had thirty thousand people in there. I don't think
I'm exaggerating. You know, twenty thirty thousand people in there
for the Snoop Dogg performance drafted Zion, So you know,
why not keep it going and we'll be outside. It'll
be kind of that atrium area of the Century City Westfield,
so I'm assuming you can pack a few thousand people
in there. Petros and I gonna come out do three
(01:04):
to five pm. It's kind of a warm up. Hopefully
get Coach Staley and Tom and maybe Justin and Derwin
out there and uh Atrian and I and you know
can also have him up there. So it's an opportunity
for you to come out, celebrate the Chargers and see
some of your favorite players, Justin, Herbert, Irwin, James including
It's exciting twenty one overall too. We don't know what
the Chargers are gonna do on that thing. They trade out,
(01:25):
it'll be a hell of a talk about a celebration.
Trade it out. They're gonna trade out drinking, get a
pair of twos, and money's gonna buy everybody. Right, I'm
gonna start dancing at jig is what I'm gonna do exactly. Look,
I'm looking forward to it. Um. Hey Chargers fans, they
know who Brett Coleman is. Brett just did an awesome
(01:46):
breakdown of Kellen Moore's offense, I think part one of two,
and brought a perfect person to have on He joins
us now as we get closer to the draft, and
Brett first, thanks for joining us, man, And I want
to start with that video because it was super oppressive.
It was highly produced and I think Chargers fans really
got to kick out of it. What was it like
(02:07):
putting that together? It was awesome just because the Chargers
media folks are incredibly talented, and you know, working with Andrew,
we go sit down over at Golden Road and we
were sketching out exactly how we wanted to come out.
And you know, he had worked on detail with Peyton.
He's an NFL Films alum. So honestly, I didn't have
(02:29):
to do a whole lot. I show up, I record
my script, I gave it to Andrew and then he
makes it the most beautiful thing I had ever been
involved with. Like, it's just it's insane talent that the
Chargers have in their media team, you guys included. So
I'm just happy to be along for the ride. It's
a listen Charger fans if you haven't seen it, it's
Chargers dot Com. As you said, the ie candy is great,
(02:52):
but the breakdown is great. Bretton, I think if you
don't mind, just maybe walk through. I know it's not
the same without the visual and the exo of Ale
to you, but if you can just walk through, you know,
the personnel groupings, the different types of runs, that Kellen
Moore uses and why it's been so effective since he
took over, no matter who was running the ball Tony
polytter Zeke in Texas. Yeah, and they were kind of
(03:14):
a fascinating offense to study last year. And when I
took an even deeper dive obviously, you know, through a
Charger's lens of like what can we expect from Kellen
and I found myself shocked that he was even available
in the first place. I'm like, Okay, this was a
top four team in scoring. They were incredible in the
red zone, they were incredible generating explosive plays. I was like, this,
(03:38):
this is a phenomenal offense. And then when you think
about the fact that they did that without their starting
quarterback for a big chunk of the year, you know,
sustaining a whole bunch of offensive line injuries, and I'm like,
this was a masterful performance by an offensive coordinator and
kind of translating what he did with them to the Chargers,
(03:59):
I think this might be one of the best Chargers offenses,
you know, assuming everybody stays healthy. Obviously, I think in
terms of system fit with talent, this is I think
going to be one of the best Chargers offenses since
probably like oh six, like Prime, mid twenty tens Chargers,
because it's highly adaptable, it's highly aggressive. You know, he's
(04:20):
gonna let Justin be justin, meaning throw the ball down
the field. Obviously, we've got to get some deep speed
in the draft in the offseason, but like they prioritize
that the passing game, we are going to create conflict
and turn zone coverages into man coverage because once everything's
twenty yards down the field, it turns into man anyway, right,
So let's let Justin be Justin exploit that. And then
(04:42):
in the run game, you know, it's so versatile and
adaptable in terms of how he runs the ball against
specific fronts. Obviously they're gonna major in outside zone and
inside zone, but if you start seeing fronts that are
good against outside zone, like a bare front or a
tight front, he's gonna switch it up. He's gonna call count,
and he's gonna gash you with that. So he doesn't
just lean on one concept. He leans on everything. And
(05:06):
it sounds weird to say, take what the defense gives
you with the run game, but that's what he does,
and he's he's not he doesn't have such an ego
that he's like, I'm I'm gonna call what I'm gonna
call and it's gonna work. It's like, no, he scouts
what a defense does well, he adapts the middle of
the game, and he is such a wide variety of
plays that eventually there's not a whole lot you can
(05:29):
do against Kellen Moore's offense because eventually he's gonna get
into his group and he's gonna exploit what you don't
do well. And that's how they ended up at least
last year in Dallas as a top five scoring team
with a backup quarterback Brett. We talked about the personnel
did the Chargers have, especially up front. We know Rashaun
Slater missed most of the last year, there were some
injuries across the line. As we sit here today, Austin
(05:52):
Eckler's future still kind of up in the air with
the Chargers. Do you think, let's assume Austin comes back,
do you think that the personnel is there for Kellen
Moore to do what he did in Dallas with the
run game. You know, what he did with Zeke and
Pollard was remarkable. Did the Chargers have that sort of
personnel currently on their roster. I personally believe they do. Obviously,
(06:16):
I'd still love to get more depth. I don't think
you can have enough depth. But you know, some combination
of a starting five with Rashaan, Jamari, Lindsley, Zion and
then Pipkins like that starting five, you can absolutely run
the crap out of the ball with that, and it
also should be a pretty good pass protecting starting five
as well. You know, Jamari stepped in last year in
(06:40):
a huge spot that was almost impossible shoes to fill,
and he filled them. Now I'm not quite sure what
side he's going to play on or what position he's
going to play on this year because Rashaan is coming back.
But the fact that we know he can do it
and we know that they'll sort that out over the
summer of like, let's just get the best five in
the field, that gives me a lot of think. It
sounds like he's gonna go right guard Bread is sort
of what they alluded to. I think they're gonna kick
(07:02):
Zion left, so he'll be sandwiched between Corey and Rashaan,
going back to his original position at BC, And they've
kind of said it at least that's what it looks
like they're gonna do. They've sort of alluded to that
that Jamari will slot in right guard, you know, inside
a tray there, and like you said, you know, it's
that five, and that's perfectly fine with me. And honestly,
that's probably the best Chargers offensive line that we've seen
(07:23):
in a while. Again, still need some depth behind that
in case guys get hurt, but you can absolutely, you know,
run the ball against numbers with that starting five because
they're so good and we are going to see a
lot of people drop safeties in the box. They're gonna
have eight in the box, and you would think that
just counting numbers, you shouldn't run the ball against that,
(07:45):
But if you're calling the right run against the right front,
the numbers kind of don't matter as much. You just
have to have a good offensive line and know how
to execute, and they absolutely have that. Really, the one
thing I think they need to complete this whole thing
is just like a deep threat to take things over
the top. Like Mike is a good deep threat, but
it's more in the sense of like winning fifty fifty
(08:05):
balls and body control and all that kind of stuff.
You know, Keena is a phenomenal route runner. He's mister
third down, but like we really need like that one
guy with gas to threaten things over the top. And
that's kind of it. Other than that, I think the
offense is good to go and something you know, a
unit that I think could put up thirty plus points
a game. You mentioned it in the in the video,
(08:28):
just the personnel groupings and how they're running a lot
of a twelve or two tight ends and you kind
of look at the tight end room and you know,
Trey McKitty was drafted as kind of that blocking let's
hope he can kind of get a little receiving action
going Gerald Everett. We kind of know what he is.
He's been in the league long enough. It feels like
Donald Palm is still evolving in perhaps becoming that complete
(08:50):
tight end. When you look at that group and you
kind of think of what might be available, like, well,
I'll just start there. Do you think they need to
add to that group based on what Kellen Moore had
in Dallas last year and how he uses those tight ends.
It's possible, but they would have to have like a
monster grade on one of these guys coming out whether
(09:13):
it's Dalton Kinkaid, Darnel Washington, Musgrave mayor from Notre Dame
Laporta from Iowa. Like to me, them taking a tight
end early would be because they are just so smitten
with one of those guys that they can't leave home
without him. And it's possible Kinkaid is that guy. I
(09:33):
wouldn't be surprised. He's generally seen as like the most
dangerous tight end in this class. But I also like,
I'm fine with the group they have now if they
end up going in a different direction. You know, let's
say we need a nickel, we need a safety, or both.
When it comes to Brian Branch, Let's say we invest
in a a receiver early, offensive line depth, defensive line depth.
(09:54):
If tight end is the one position they just don't
get to, they'll be fine with this group. But that
being said, I wouldn't be sad to see Justin throwing
at Dalton Kincaid on Sundays either, because he is just
a ridiculous receiving tat end talent. So then just the
flip side of that, Bret is the receiver. Because you
kind of just talk about pass catchers in general in
(10:17):
terms of what might be there at twenty one or
if you when you say speakers for people who don't
know Bret, you do incredible work breaking down draft prospects
as well, so you know all of these players when
you just look at the wide receivers that are available,
kind of the way it's been described, at least my
interpretation of it is it's a deep class. It's not
necessarily an elite class. So what's available to them in
(10:39):
rounds two, three, four, whatever, versus what might be available
to them at twenty one. Say it's Za Flowers, Jordan Addison,
you know, versus again just kind of just pure speed
that might be available to them later in the draft,
and what might be the better path there to me?
I mean, my wide receiver one of this class is
a Flowers. You know, watch him on tape. He's the
(11:01):
most complete package of vertical explosiveness combined with ability to
beat press coverage. I know people bring up the weight
he went up to one eighty three in the offseason.
I don't think it particularly matters, because even if a
press corner is bigger and stronger than you, if they
can't touch you, doesn't really matter that much. And corners
really struggle touching him off the line. He's so quick
(11:23):
and so fluid and so explosive. Great route runner, you know,
has a few concentration drops here and there, but I
would still say he has good hands and he's a
crazy good threat after the catch two. In terms of
talent verse fit, he's the best one in this class.
I think for the Chargers specifically, you know, getting that
complimentary guy to Mike and Keenan who eventually could could
(11:46):
grow into being even more than just a compliment. He
could be a focal point if they don't get Zay Flowers,
which I think is possible because I think he could
go as high as like fourteen to the Patriots if
he's not on the board. Addison is also possible. I
feel like he and Keenan do a lot of similar things,
(12:08):
so you know, maybe he doesn't bring like quite the
different dimension in terms of like pure speed, but he's
still a great player. He'd still be a great charger
if we just want like a pure speed player, you know,
looking at day two, day three, that's where I'm probably
looking at, Like Marvin Mims from Oklahoma, Jaden Reid from
(12:29):
Michigan State to me, is just like another t Y Hilton, Like,
I kind of just have him to the Chargers in
pencil right now if they don't take receiver in the
first round, because he is perfect for them, legit, low
four four speed, great ball skills, great route runner. Again,
he's smaller, so he's gonna go lower, but like he
fills the role. And then in terms of like super
(12:50):
late guys, I would probably well not even super late,
like Jonathan Mingo from Ole Miss. He does bring that
that speed element, but he's also a lot bigger. He's
one of those typical old Miss receivers. It's like two
hundred and thirty pounds, it runs four four and we
have no idea how he defies physics. But he's another
guy would consider in the third round for them, And
I think you kind of hit the nail on the head.
(13:10):
It's not an elite receiver class, but there's just a
ton of dudes in the top one fifty, so if
they don't get one early, they're still fine. But boy,
I really love Za Flowers in powder blue. That's kind
of like my main one right there. Yeah, Money Money
mentioned that yesterday we were not yesterday last week. We're
(13:33):
guessing who the charge would select the twenty one right
one of you had Zaza Flowers at twenty one there,
maybe it's trying to manifest or something, Brett, can you
set the scene for us in this first round? So
the Chargers select twenty one. Overall, there's a chance five
quarterbacks go in the first round. Who knows. Outside of
(13:55):
those quarterbacks, it kind of moves the Chargers up to seventeen.
Let's say there is a lot of position groups that
I think would be ideal for the Chargers. I look
at edge with Joey and Khalil's age. If somebody drops there.
We talked about wide receiver and tight end. What are
some of the stronger position groups in this draft, and
(14:16):
maybe a couple of guys that you wouldn't be surprised
if they were there at twenty one that that maybe
a little bit better than than twenty one. Overall, I
think in terms of strength of this draft class, the
best three or I guess technically four positions would be
tight end, edge, corner, and running back. That those have
(14:38):
the best combination of like top end talent plus depth,
and it's it's a good year for the Chargers because
I think they could use another corner. They could use potentially,
depending on what happens with Austin Eckler, they might be
in need of a running back over the next couple
of weeks. Here tight end is a maybe we went
over that, I think, And then I guess it depends
(15:02):
on how you qualify nickel versus corner and everything like that,
because I know that the Chargers specifically like they could
take an outside corner, they could take a nickel, because
it's not take can do both. It really just depends
on who's on the board, where they where they value guys.
And I think that you know, the strength of this
draft class line up well with what the Chargers need,
especially if they're looking for another edge, you know, to
(15:23):
go behind Joey and Khalil as well. One one position
that I don't think has been considered enough for the
Chargers depending on how the first round breaks is outside corner.
And this is kind of roundabout logic for me when
you go back to the playoff game and I don't
want to I don't want to belavor it too much
(15:43):
because I know it hurts. The Michael Davis injury changed
that game, and if Michael Davis didn't get hurt, they
without a doubt would have won that game because when
Michael Davis went out all of a sudden, they didn't
have a bigger, longer press corner that told play the
backside against all those three by one looks that the
chart or that the Jaguars were throwing at them, and
(16:05):
so you know, they moved to Sante around they brought
into Seer, and it's just it changed the types of
coverages they could call. And even though yes, nickel is
a need and safety is a need and Brian Branch
would fill both of those roles, I think back to
if Michael Davis knock On Wood isn't on the field, again,
(16:29):
do they have anybody that can do that? And I
don't necessarily think they do, And so I think having
another press man corner in the first round just in
their back pocket as a sneaky like breake glass in
case of emergency pick, it's absolutely possible. Like Deante Banks
from Maryland, you know, if Joey Porter Junior falls that far,
like he's a perfect fit because when we go into nickel,
(16:52):
you can always kick a Sante inside and he can
play nickel for you. And then you just have these
two big, hulking press corners on the outside. Brandon would
love because that gives him more flexibility in terms of
how he can call the coverage as he wants to call.
So I know that we're infatuated with the receiver and
I would love that. And I know we're infatuated with
like hybrid safety Nickel like Brian Branch. I would love
(17:14):
that even And I want to pause you right there
just because when you evaluate the one thing about Branch
and I know, the measurables or the measurables, Man, he
plays big like he is a I hate saying it,
but he's a dog like that dude will bust your ass. Like,
how how do you do How do you think teams
evaluate that? Like, yeah, I know he's you know, like
(17:36):
the whole teams have I'm not taking a corner under
five eleven or I'm not taking a corner under one
hundred ninety five. They have those benchmarks. But man, when
you just watch that guy on tape, it just looks
like he's gonna rough you up, like you are not
going to get the better of him. So how you
how do you value that when you're trying to because
like for us, I think we've seen it so many times.
(17:56):
It's not just the press man, it's the corner, it's
making a tackle. It's thinking back to week you know,
thinking back to week eighteen two years ago with Jacobs,
you know, carrying Assante as a backpack for eight yards
to put him into field goal range even though he
was there to make the stop. You know, like you
said last year, same thing. It's a third one. They
(18:18):
run the jet sweep and you can't make the tackle. So, like,
how does that come into the evaluation process for someone
like Branch that it felt like was really getting a
lot of love and was getting pushed up in the
middle of that first round and now for whatever reason,
we're seeing him perhaps be devalued. And who knows what
is a smokescreen and what's not. And Branch is a
classic example of people getting way to beholden to testing
(18:39):
numbers and they forget what their eyes said, which is
this is a really good football player who, like you said,
makes an impact on all three downs. And what people
don't realize is as a like nicol is the hardest
spot to play on defense? You ask anybody, like, it's
the hardest spot because you have two way go and
(19:00):
coverage constantly. You have to be involved in the run
fit on every single play. You're involved in the past
rushes of Blitzer like Nickel is the spot and if
you don't have a good one, you don't have a
good defense, quite frankly, and I think when people watch
Brian Branch play and they see the impact that he
had on Alabama, everybody was all in and all of
a sudden, you know, he goes out and has these
(19:21):
testing numbers, and people like forget that for six months,
we're like, oh, this is a top fifteen player in
the draft. And I'll say this, I think the difference
between you know, fan perception and team perception is teams
these days, especially once with fleshed out analytics departments, they
get all the GPS data from the pads and they
(19:43):
use that to model play speed into like a projected
forty yard dash time, Like teams do that these days.
So like forty yard dashes are like quote unquote important,
but not really because if your model says, hey, this
guy plays at a four to four eight when he
has pads on, you don't really care if he runs
for six in spandex because you now have the ability
(20:04):
to quantify game speed in ways that you didn't be
able to do ten years ago. And Brian Branch's game
speed is insane, So I think that he's going to
go higher than maybe fans expect because teams have numbers
to back up what their I'd say, Brett, you know,
the one thing I think about with Corner two is
(20:24):
just the uncertainty around J. C. Jackson and when he's
going to be ready, because you know, there's a lot
of money invested in him and at this point we
don't know when he's gonna be ready. So you know,
that's why I think to your point, Corner is a
is a sneaky knee that you know. Money brought up
a great point too about having to pay Michael Davis
here in a couple of years and having to pay
(20:45):
Asante after that and this year. Yeah, you got you
gotta get younger at Corner and plan for the future
while at the same time kind of work on this
parallel paths of getting justin everything he needs offensively so
they can compete for a Super Bowl. So you know,
I guess we've been going back and forth, but hey,
just load up on offense, right, you know, money has
(21:07):
the philosophy which I agree with, is, hey, you got
you gotta outscore the Chiefs and the Bills and everybody
else in the AFC. So you're not stopping them, and
you're not stopping them. Yeah, you're not stopping him. So
so at twenty one, do you think offense weighs a
little heavier with all that being said, knowing what you're
competing against in the a f C this year, It does,
(21:31):
but it also has to be the right guy, right,
Like if Bijean Robinson falls into our lap, I'm just
I'm looking up and saying thank you, But I also
don't expect him to. You know that a lot on
this podcast. But do people think that Bijean's going to
be there? Some do? Um? I think they're at least
(21:52):
it feels like the Eagles make sense at ten right
for how they want to play and what they want
to do. And then after that, it feels like maybe
the Patriots the way they draft the value they don't
give a damn about what the rules are. Right in
the draft, you could see that. But I guess the
Lions with their second pick, right, we know the offense
they want to run. So yeah, Brad, I'd be surprised.
(22:14):
You know what though, So if you can you know
Chris's point there about about Bijean and adding to the offense.
I saw the breakdown you did with your I think
it was the hidden Gems and you had Roshan Johnson
and you were taught the way you were framing the conversation.
You used the Chargers. That was the team that you used,
like hey, yes, here's Bijean, but then here's this other
(22:36):
guy that you could get in the second or the
third instead, And this is how it would really work
in an offense like say the Chargers. And that's what's
unfortunate about Roshan as he was on a team with
Bijean for all that time. Right when if he goes
to any other team, you know, he's probably looked at
as like an easy top hundred pick. And I still
(22:57):
think he will be a top hundred pick. But he
reminds me a lot of like Brian Robinson from Alabama
last year, where it's this overlooked guy who didn't really
you know, and Brian Robinson didn't get his full shot
till his last year's senior year, and he stuck it
out and he waited behind a whole bunch of dudes,
and Roshan unfortunately was behind Bijean for the last three years,
but he was still putting up a six yards to
carry and he's a former quarterback, so you could do
(23:18):
some real funky stuff in the red zone, like you know,
if we're getting into wildcat and all that kind of
stuff you want to call something weird, you pick Roshan Johnson,
But he's a way better athlete than he's given credit for.
Good pass protector, good receiver, absolutely runs over people, great size,
extremely solid running back. Again, I still in terms of
like projected pick, he's gonna go ninety picks behind Bijan
(23:41):
for a reason. But if they don't get Bijean, I
would be all over Roshan Johnson in like the third
round and just love it if he was in La Brett.
Do you remember your evaluation of Isaiah Spiller. I was
actually I wasn't. I wasn't the biggest Isaiah Spiller guy.
(24:02):
It doesn't mean that I have like a low grade
on him. I just happened to have some really really
high grades on a whole bunch of guys ahead of him. Honestly,
what was what was hard about my Spiller evaluation was
he was running being green who was just caving in
defensive lines and giving like these eight yard canyons. And
I was like, I know, he can make a move,
(24:23):
but he just hasn't really had too because the Texas
Texas anim offensive line was absolutely obliterating people. But I
thought he was like a really solid prospect, you know,
potentially a three down guy, you know, your classic like
number two that if Austin needed a blow on the sideline,
you could put Spiller in there and be totally fine.
(24:44):
I never necessarily saw like game breaking ability, but I
definitely thought he thought he was really solid. So if
just kind of going back and Chris, sorry, I got
off the question you're asking there. So let's let's say
that you know, Zay is there, Bijan is there. Um,
(25:05):
you're not going to get one of the top two
corners there, whether Spoon Agnsalis, they won't be there. Um,
so what if it is those two? You know, and
and you've got a joke you've got to kind of
choose between Za and Bijean, and you kind of know
what those it's just you know, that's that's a to me,
that's a tough one. It's extraordinarily tough. Um. By the way,
(25:27):
it's an exceptional problem to have too. Yeah, right, so
let's go sign me up for that problem. Great problem
to have. I know the analytics would say go receiver
every single time. I understand that. But I also I
understand the type of coach that that Brandon's Daley is.
And this is somebody who really loves to establish pace
(25:49):
in the game and establish physicality in the game and
uses the run game um to to kind of get
the game into a groove, right, um to get justin
into a group to give second and six, not second
and eight. And Bijan's the type of running back that
will get you second and six even if it's blocked
for a second and eight, right. And I think having
(26:12):
the type of running back which they haven't necessarily had
over the last few years, of somebody who can get
fifteen carries and five catches or fifteen carries and ten
catches and you get twenty plus touches, which is a
very rare thing in the NFL these days. It's very
few backs that ever average twenty plus touches a game.
Bijean is one of the guys that I think can
(26:33):
do it, but he can do it in multiple ways.
He can do it as a receiver or as a runner.
You can give him low red zone carries, you can
give him high leverage, short yardage carries. Third and seven,
say go out there and win, not just against linebackers,
but against safeties. He can do that. And I think
having that type of running back that we know Staley
likes to establish pace and control of a game in
(26:55):
addition to having explosive game breaking ability, it's a rare
thing to have. And I think you can still get
that speed element in the receiving core, like we talked
about with some of those guys on Day two, in
Day three, because there are a bunch of them, I
don't necessarily think you can get a b John Robinson
in Day two or Day three. And he's one of
the three best players in this draft class. So I'm
(27:17):
not going to look a gift horse in the mouth. Hey,
let's take a quick break, and we got a couple
more questions for Brett all right, guys, is the official
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(28:21):
You know Brett, Because we talk about Bijan, it doesn't
mean that we don't love Austin Ekeler. And if he
is back and you have those two guys in the backfield,
I mean we've seen Austin, especially especially during like the
Melvin Gordon days. We've seen him line up on the outside.
You can use Austin everywhere too, So I don't know
if you could just talk about what this offense could
look like, especially with Kellen Moore calling the plays, having
(28:43):
a guy like Bijan or somebody comparable with Austin Ekeler.
And we saw what they did last year in Dallas
with Pollard and Zeke on the field at the same time. Yeah,
and they ran a whole bunch of two back runs
with two halfbacks, not a fullback, but a half back
because they would use Zeke to block for Tony. And
if you can run a twenty one personnel run with
(29:05):
two guys on the field that could both potentially get
the rock and house that thing, it completely changes how
a defense reacts because let's just say, you know, we
get we get Bijean and Austro on the field at
the same time. Austin's in the slot, Bijean's in the backfield.
You know, we get Trey McKitty at the why, and
(29:28):
then all of a sudden, we put Austin in the backfield,
we move Bijean up to be a fullback. You're still
not quite trusting that it's going to be a two
back run because all of a sudden, we can run
fullback scene with Beijean Robinson. He can house it for
sixty yards, so you're still kind of slow to get
downhill and play against. You know, let's say we're calling
like two back power or something like that, because we
(29:49):
know Bijan can and will block like he's all about that.
But if if the linebacker just hesitates a little bit
all of a sudden, that creates a massive crack, not
to mention, you can do some really fun stuff off
play action with that. You know, you can go. You
can go four strong. They did that in Dallas with
(30:10):
Zeke and Pollard running four strong, meaning four to the
strong side one guy you know, which is probably be
Mike on the backside. Like, you can do some wild
stuff with both of them on the field. It's not
an either or, it's a yes and and I if
Austin comes back, I would love that because him and
Bijon together would be I'm not even kidding, the best
(30:31):
running back duel in the league day one. So that
this works to go into this conversation, Chris alluded to
it a little bit earlier Brett, and look, you can
call it. It's not confirmation or recency bias. Maybe it's
just scar tissue. I've seen, you know, calling games for
the Chargers since twenty seventeen. I can't tell you how
(30:51):
many four point three point leads that I've seen against
top offenses in this league, particularly the Chiefs. There's no
better way to punch your ticket into the tournament and
to win the division. That don't hold they lead, they
lose the lead. You know how it's gonna end. You're
just waiting for the other shoe to drop. It's nothing
against Brandon Staley or this Chargers defense, because he does
(31:13):
it to everybody. You know. He did it to the
Eagles who had seventy sacks in the year and scored
thirty five points and couldn't prevent them from scoring thirty eight.
What's I've made the case just offense that you've got
Joey Boza, Khalil Mack, Derwin James, you have got a
stacked defense that DC's would line up to be able
to coach, and they can't stop him. So what's the
(31:35):
point of even adding to it. Why not just say
screw it, we got to score thirty eight. Thirty one
is not going to do it, and that's the way
we've got to win the AFC. West does that make
sense to you, because I'm sure it doesn't for Brandon Staley,
defensive minded coach. But that's sort of the predicament that
I'm trying to put him in. I mean, so I
was at the Chargers Chiefs game and so far last year. Yeah,
(31:57):
I was down to a Lower Bowl for that game,
and it was the first time I've ever seen Mahomes live.
Obviously you've seen him live many times at this point,
and there's this almost like sense of dread and inevitability,
you know, when he gets the percent two minutes And
I would really prefer that script be flipped, where don't
(32:18):
you dare give Justin Herbert the ball with two minutes left, which,
to a degree it already is like I think the
Chiefs the only team they're really scared of is the
Chargers because the Chargers play them better than anybody consistently. Yeah,
And I would really love it if if we just
kind of lean into Justin Herbert is the big bad wolf.
Give him everything he needs, and as long as he
(32:40):
has the ball last, we're good. We're winning the game.
It's the big twelve, literally twelve, that's it. Just let
him score. Make sure you leave us sixty five seconds
and you're good, You'll win the game. It just it feels,
it feels as though in the AFC right now, on
that path to the Super Bowl, it's Burrow, it's Josh Allen,
(33:03):
it's Patrick Mahomes, and it's only gonna get tougher, you know,
it's it's only it's only going to get harder. It's
so I think, you know, not to just reiterate, it's
you've already said it all, but like that, it just
feels like that's the right approach, Like it's it's it's
foolish to think your defense is gonna shut all of
these offenses down and route to a Super Bowl berth.
(33:24):
And we haven't even got to twenty twenty four when
Kayleb Williams and Drake May are coming like exactly the
two Yeah, like what do you do? NFC? Yeah? And
bread the face. You know. It's it's funny too, because
we've been talking about Lamar and where's Lamar gonna go?
And all of a sudden, I guess ob J makes
everything fine. I don't know, I mean, I guess Lamar
is gonna stay in the AFC. So there's yet another
(33:45):
another threat in the conference at the quarterback position. You
mentioned Kayleb Williams and in May coming out next year. Um,
I'm with money, man, I just think you have to
load up offensively. Um, we're kind of in that third
and fourth and fifth wave of free agency coming. I
guess over the next month. Is there anybody out there,
especially at the wide receiver position, with speed that you
(34:08):
think could be a nice fit for this offense? Oh Man?
In terms of still available, Um, off top, here's a
reason they're still available, right, Yeah? Yeah, yeah. I mean
defensively last year they made some big moves getting Morgan
Fox and Kyle Vannoy late and and those guys all
contributed late in the year. But offensively, I think it's
(34:31):
a little bit more of a challenge. Yeah, because if
you can run four four, you're gonna have a job
usually before April starts. Yeah, So I think if they
are going to get that, it is going to be
through the draft. Luckily for them, there's a million dudes
in this class that can run four four. I'm looking,
I don't see him. I'm on Greg Rosenthal's top one
hundred still available. There's not a single receiver. So I
(34:54):
think they've they've all been uh, they've all been snatched up.
And it's like you said that the good news is
depth in the in the draft. Let's say, you know what, Brett,
let's let's at least entertain the idea that that Brandon
Staley's got some pull in that war room when twenty
one is up there, and look, there's there's some interesting
(35:17):
defensive players. We already talked about Brian Branch you mentioned more.
We have not talked about the defensive lineman. I think
the one that a lot of people have kind of
sort of at least put a pin in and kind
of said, oh, you know, Brandon Staleaklijah Cancy, Is he
Aaron Donald? No? But you know there are some of
those at least characteristic, same uniform, same penetrating ability. Just
(35:41):
kind of your thoughts of maybe the players defensively that
might be available that could make a big impact on
a team that has its sights set on the Super
Bowl this year. You know, I think a big thing is, Okay,
we're prioritizing insider outside because it's two very different skill sets.
If they're looking at an edge or really just a
(36:03):
either an outside linebacker or or like a true defensive end.
If we're looking there, I would I would kind of
like to find Staley's new version of Leonard Floyd, like
a young Leonard Floyd, somebody who can play that Sam
linebacker role, which really is like a jack of all trades,
master of none type thing, like obviously contributes as a
pass rusher, drops in coverage quite frequently, you know, especially
(36:28):
when they're doing like all the bonus fire zone stuff,
like they need somebody who can handle that type of
load going backward and forward. Tennessee's Byron Young, I think,
is somebody who I look for at that spot because
he's ultra athletic, like insanely athletic, super fluid would have
to be coached up a little bit. But in terms
(36:48):
of like here's the ball of clay and Brandon just
gets to work with that and turn it into like
Leonard Floyd with a jet pack, I think Buyer and Young,
the Tennessee Byron Young, not the Alabama Buyer and Young.
I know, very confused because the same thing. But he's
one I'll be looking at. In terms of interior guys,
I'm looking at Okay, who can play anything from a
(37:08):
two eye to a five technique. You know Fox, He's
gonna you know, hold down the Ford as like a
five technique to four eye. But who's somebody who I
could potentially kick even further inside? And I look at
Keanu Benton from Wisconsin, who, to me, reminds me a
lot of Cam Hayward. You know, he's got a wrestling background,
fantastic pass rusher, really good athlete, but also as the
(37:32):
size and the nastiness that you know, if we're playing
like a four down flex front where we have him
as a two eye and then you know, really any
any of the other Chargers defensive Linman company three technique
on the other side, I think Keanu Benton being that
super quick, physical two eye that can also provide pass
(37:52):
rush fertilities is a piece that Brandon would really really
love to have. And then in terms of like, Okay,
who's the best pass rusher. Let's say, God forbid, Joey
goes down, Kleu goes down. Who's somebody that we can
bring in right now and get after the past or
rushed the pastor two day. I would look at probably,
(38:16):
oh God, who would even be there at twenty one
to a plot Nolan Smith. I probably expect to be
top fifteen Polo too, I think at least has a
decent shot of being there. He has inside outside versatility.
Derek Hall from Auburn. I would love Will McDonald from
Iowa State who I know Brandon would love Will McDonald
(38:37):
because he's a five tech that played played two hundred
and sixty pound five technique Like that's catnip for Staley.
Also super Bendi and all these guys potentially could be
there at twenty one. So in terms of like big
big picture in terms of where the Chargers can go
in the draft, the answers anywhere they have them out
(38:58):
by the way, just trade back and they probably talked
about the depth, that's what that that that'd be the
best case. To me, they probably will just because I
think that the two guys that you can't really pass
on RS and Bijan if they're not there, like might
as well get value and go yeah. Yeah. But the
last one for me, and this is kind of shifting
(39:19):
out of the draft and focusing on the division. Just
your thoughts on what the division has done so far
this offseason, obviously with the Broncos and Sean Payton that
fit with Russell Wilson, McDaniels, getting Garoppolo and some guys
that I think better fit what he wants to do.
Where do the Chargers kind of fit in this pecking
(39:42):
order in the AFC West? Knowing the Chiefs of the
Chiefs and kind of the drastic moves that have been
made with the with Denver in Vegas, I still have them. Uh, Like,
if I was going to project wins right now pre draft,
I would still have them above Denver. I would still
have them above the Raiders. The Chiefs is like maybe
because they're the Chiefs, But the Chargers right now, on paper,
(40:05):
I think are the only team that could really go
toe to toe with KC. And I think that that
kind of bared itself out in the regular season two
right like they they gave them the worst scares, and
if they were healthy, they probably would have at least
split and made the playoffs and seen them again in
January or gone gone past, gone past the round and
(40:27):
seen them again later in January. I've obviously, you know,
the Michael Davis injury, like we alluded to, was big
for them. But like, the Chargers are the threat to
KC to me because not only are they talented, but
schematically like when I watch as an aside, there was
a video that I did during the season about like
the goal line shovel pass that Kansas City runs all
(40:48):
the time, and how they are literally the only team
in the NFL that's good at it, like the only one,
and even then their success rate is still like forty
everybody else is like half. That they're the only team
that makes it work, the only team that plays against
their shovel pass well, and the only reason why they're
below fifty percent is because they called it a bunch
(41:08):
of times against the Chargers, and the Chargers stopped at
every single time. So like, even from a schematic standpoint,
the Chargers are the only team that really understands Andy
Reid and really understands Spagnolo, and from a schematic standpoint,
they play against them, it's a dog fight every single time,
and the Chiefs know that they know they're in for
a brawl. And if the Chargers should stay healthy, truly
(41:31):
just stay healthy. Their combination of talent and I think
you know the quality of their coaching staff in terms
of game planning against case, they are the threat to
the Chiefs, and I think the Chiefs know that I'm good.
Follow them, Brett Coleman two Tis two L's two ends
YouTube channels. Great, you're going to see those videos. The
(41:52):
one is already up breaking down the run. I would
assume we're pretty much going to get the one on
the pass here and day now at chargers dot com.
So they're great. Videos are great. Get you ready for
the draft? Awesome insight. Really enjoyed it, Brett, Thanks man,
Thank you for having me. Brett. You're the man that's
gonna do it for us. We got two more weeks.
(42:12):
We'll get another guest on next week. Get you closer
to the twenty twenty three draft. Chargers like twenty one overall,
and if they don't use the pick and trade out
money and drinks for everybody, get the atrium right about that?
I don't know about that. We'll drink together. We'll have
a drink together. How about that. I'll I'll buy a
(42:34):
handful of them, but not all of them. I think
they're supposed to be thousands of people, so that could
set me back. I still got kids in college, for
God's sakes. Yeah, I can't do that to you, all right?
For Brett and buddy up Chris has a bit chargers weekly.
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