Chargers Weekly: Mock Drafts, Kellen Moore's Offense and Fan Q&A

With the 2023 NFL Draft three weeks away, Matt "Money" Smith and Chris Hayre discuss the latest expert mock drafts and the Chargers.com breakdown of Kellen Moore's offense before answering fan questions.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The late fifteen ten touchdowns. What's up, guys? Welcome into
a brand new episode of Chargers Weekly, three weeks away
from the twenty twenty three NFL Draft to Kansas City,
as always, joined by Matt, Buddy Smith and Buddy. The

(00:23):
build up is just kind of feeling it now a
little bit. Yeah, I've been talking to Mike last week. Actually,
I saw Mike's updated mock draft and the podbust have
been fresh at his mic and his Dalton KEKs a
charge out his mind. You know, Yeah, a lot more,
a lot more mock drafts, a lot more draft shows,
a lot more draft columns, a lot more draft pods.
I don't know if the picture is any clear than

(00:45):
it was a week ago, but you know, teams, teams
are going to leak out what they want to leak out.
For the most part, they're they're playing straight, they're doing
their due diligence. They've got their board, they've got their
first round grades. I think that's what most people that
are listening to us are focused on, not so much
what are the Chargers going to do in the fourth, fifth, sixth,
and seventh, but sort of what are these first three

(01:06):
picks going to look like and where are they going
to be? And I still think the one development that
affects them a little bit is the emergence of Hendon
Hooker as a potential first round draft pick and the
potential slide of Will Levis as some are projecting. So
that's between what we were talking about, you know, the

(01:27):
conversation we had last week and the conversation we're having
this week. That's perhaps the one development that bodes well
for the Chargers is if Levis slips, Canny slip all
the way to twenty one, Hendon Hooker, is he a
first round pick? How many teams have them on their board?
Is their quarterback of the future willing to invest a
first round pick in? And would he be there at

(01:48):
twenty one? And those are things that would benefit the
Chargers if they want to trade back. And it seemed
like Tom and Brandon both alluded to that, and it's
something that we brought up a couple of weeks ago, right,
is you only have so many first round aids, and
once you get out of those first round round graded players,
you're more open to trade back. It's just is there
another team that has a first round grade on one

(02:09):
of those players that's sitting there when you're slated to
pick at twenty one. You know, I try to take
ourselves back to last year when we were trying to
predict who the charges we're going to select, and we
mentioned Dion Johnson a few times, but we didn't I mean,
you and I weren't saying, hey, Zion Johnson, look out
for him. He's gonna be the pick. So you know,
there's always things that happen on draft night too where

(02:31):
you don't expect. Henn and Hooker and Will Levis. I
think those are things to keep an eye on. I
think maybe trades. Who knows what Lamar Jackson situation is
going to be, like, uh, you know, does that develop
on draft night? Does it develop after Draft night? I
think those are all fair questions as we kind of
look ahead to Round one, But at twenty one overall,

(02:52):
you know, first of all, did you see the breakdown
that Brett Coleman did on Kellen Moore's Yeah, on Kellen
Moore's offense, a lot of twelve you know, the twelve
verses eleven, what he likes to run and that perhaps
is the one thing that I overlooked is probably the
best word you know, the receiving numbers are almost identical.
But Gerald Everett is not a blocker. He's a He's

(03:16):
a pass catching tight end. Dalton schultzkin block. He's not
an elite blocker, but he's a blocker, and I think
that's something to keep an eye on. The with the
Chargers is they drafted Trey McKitty as more of a
blocking tight end with some receiving skills, and I think
they're still searching for those blocking skills to show up.

(03:37):
We know Donald Parham came in with very little ability
to block, and he's progressed nicely as a more complete
tight end than just a receiving threat, particularly in the
red zone. So they'll continue to develop him. But that's
where sort of the Michael Mayer versus Dalton kincaide versus
Darnell Washington all come into play. Is tight ends are different.

(04:03):
It depends what you're looking for. And the one thing
I would would suggest for people that think, well you've
got to go Mayor instead of kincaid, because he's more
of an all round tight end as opposed to just
a big receiver that's going to be covered by backers
or safeties. The Chiefs don't really have that blocking tighten.

(04:23):
You can find those extra blockers and you know what,
a lot more teams and even the Chargers did this
pretty regular not regularly, but we'd see it maybe once,
maybe two, three times a game run out a sixth
offensive lineman. You know, it's if you're just going to
keep a tight end to block and there don't have
that many you know, they don't have not elite but

(04:44):
just average receiving skills, then just bring in your sixth
offensive lineman. And they were doing that with Storm as
a sixth offensive lineman. They've done it multiple year. They
did it with Trey before he became their starting right tackle,
he was always their sixth offensive lineman. So they can
do that if if you're concerned about drafting Kinkaid to
go with Everett and what is it that that Callen

(05:07):
Moore's looking for? But yes, a great breakdown hit it
up at the Chargers YouTube channel with Brady did a
really great job of explaining kind of what Kellen Moore
likes to run. Yeah, it gives you a pause a
little bit to think, Okay, is Washington or is is
Mayor a better fit? Like on its face in twenty
twenty three, knowing that Gerald Everett and Dalton Kinkai kind

(05:28):
of have similar skill sets and that you know their
weapons in the passing game. But I'm with you in that, Hey,
Justin Herbert and Dalton kinka could be a lethal combination
for a long long time with the Chargers. And it's
it's not it's not worth saying. Okay, you know, forget it.

(05:48):
We have Gerald Everett this year. Let's focus on Washington
or Mayor. At the same time what you said two
weeks ago, and I agree with trading back and maybe
getting a Darnell Washington to go with another second or
a third round pick. Maybe that's the move, you know.
So it's I think it brings a little bit Musgrave
or Sam Laporter, Like if you if you only have

(06:11):
one first round grade or two. Let's say you have
two first round grades on a tight end on Kincaid
and Mayor and they're both gone. But you know, so
that's when you start, Okay, well, we don't want to
draft Washington here, we don't want to draft Musgrave here.
We don't feel that there's value with the twenty one
pick in that player. Now, let's move on to our
wide receivers. Do we have a first round grade on

(06:33):
any of these wide receivers? Is there a first round
grade on Quinton Johnson? Is there a first round grade
on Jay Jordan Addison? On Zay Flowers? That's the question.
It's not just fit this player. And remember they need
someone to trade with them. They need someone that wants
to give up their third to come up to one,

(06:53):
give up their two and their three for you to
move back. Like the Chargers did when they jumped to
get Kenneth Murray. Remember they gave up their two and
they're three to move to twenty six. I think it
was to draft Canna. So that's that's the kind of
deal you're you're looking at. You're going to swap your
one for their two and you're going to get there three.
Is there a team that's willing to do that? And
how far back is there too? And their three? But

(07:15):
I'd be up for it just to get that one
extra pick to slide back a little bit. If a
lot of those players are on the board, and again,
remember everybody hasn't graded differently, and there's so many. If
Tom Tolesco is true to his word that he is
the best player available, Well, that puts everybody into play.
You may end up having a first round grade on
an interior lineman that's sitting there for you at twenty

(07:37):
one and you say, well, I know we got Sol
you're there, but it hadn't hurt to just keep building
or defensive line or interior line or edge rush or linebacker.
What if you've got a first round grade on Nolan
Smith and he's sitting there and it's not someone we're
really thinking about. So to me, that's that's sort of
the interesting that that's the riddle of the draft is

(07:57):
you just you don't have You don't have the answers.
You don't even have the slightest bit of an answer.
You have no idea what the teams think. You know
what you think the players are that fit and should
be ranked high enough for you to draft at twenty one,
But you have no idea what Tom Talsko and his
staff think and Brandon Staley think when when that pick
is when when the clock starts and they're sitting at
twenty one. One, thing we both know is that they

(08:19):
need speed still on offense, and I don't know whether
that's going to come from And I would think it
would come from the draft. It would come early in
the draft, knowing the debt was something that was lacking
last year. I want to go to this mock draft
tracker and guys, we have a bunch of questions that
we'll get to in a little bit, but just look
at it. What some of the experts around UH media circles. Funny,

(08:41):
have your guy Cancy from Pittsburgh. Todd McShay has him
going to the Chargers and if he slides back. That's
one interesting I've said offense, offense, offense, but the more
and I hadn't really dug into him. I did after
we were talking with Mike Rent last week, and it's explosive.

(09:02):
It jumps off I mean it really jumps off the
screen when you're watching him, how quickly he splits, just
the strength. There's one play I think it was against
West Virginia where he's inside, he's in the B gap
and he splits the center guard, just dusts the guard
to the right and the running back tries to pick

(09:23):
him up and he basically throws the running back into
the quarterback for the sacks. It's that kind of play,
the stuff we see with Joey and Khalil last year.
I remember there was that in that first game Khalil
against the Raiders. Essentially, I don't remember which back was
in there. I can't imagine be Jacobs, he's too strong,
but just basically grabbed the running back and tackled Derek

(09:44):
Carr and the running back for a sack. Like that's
the kind of power we're talking about with Kalijah Cancy
and just the quicks. So yeah, McShay, I think if
if he's sitting there at twenty one, I can only
imagine that Brandon Stale will be jumping on the table
begging Tom to take him to help this defense out.
So Renner updated his mock yesterday. He's got Dalton Kincaid,

(10:07):
Michael Middlehurst, Schwartz from USA Today, Dalton Kincaid, Ryan Wilson,
CBS Sports, Jordan Addison. That's interesting. If Jordan Addison's there
at twenty one, and that's something you got to think
long and hard about. He's starting to slide a little bit. Yeah,
for whatever reason, and maybe the pro day wasn't fair.
It was in that monsoon we had out here that
they were out there doing their pro day. But for

(10:28):
whatever reason, Addison has taken a bit of a tumble
down the board. You're starting to hear more Quinton Johnston,
you're here and a little bit more is a Flowers
Smith Na Jigma seems to be the number one receiver
now on just about everybody's board. Don't know if that's
really a fit with the Chargers for what they have.
And again, you can't just think about twenty twenty three.

(10:52):
You've got to think about the next five years with
these first round picks. So potentially, yeah, you could. He's
just very similar to Keenan, where he's so good and
strong and he's one speed in every one of his cuts.
He's not the fastest guy, but like Keenan, everything's at
the same speeds. You have no idea where he's going,
and he's just explosive like Keenan is in and out

(11:14):
of his breaks. He's very similar. So you'd be drafting
a similar player as opposed to Zay who played a
lot on the outside. You know, Johnson, who played a ton.
I mean that's what he is, right, He's just a
giant dude. Johnston's a giant freak of nature. DK Metcalf,
you know, not that swoll, but that tall and that long.
So that's and we talk about that all the time
with wide receivers. You'r DJ has that line. You're building

(11:37):
a basketball team, point guard, you know, swing your your forward,
do you have a center for the red zone for
those for those you know, jump balls like that's what
you're trying to build. So of all those players, to me,
Za is the one that really jumps out, just because
he's the most explosive. I think dynamic was the word

(11:57):
that that are, you know that Mike Renner used last week,
And that's that's the one thing that jumps you know.
I love Josh downs at the combine, just so smooth
and also looked explosive. But he's essentially a slot. I
think you got to think about somebody on that that
you know that that's lined up outside opposite Mike Bleacher Report,

(12:22):
Scottie Department, Zay Flowers. There you go, Boston College, Kyle Stackpole,
has Miles Murphy at Clemson, our friends Cynthia Freeland, Michael
Mayer uh and you know we just brought that up.
He's probably the most complete tight end just nowhere near
the receiver. Kincaid is not even close. He's He's good
Kincaid's a great receiver as a tight end, great elite

(12:46):
receiver as a tight end. Mayor is more of you're
all around good block or good receiver. And Christier Pasto
has b John Robinson going to the Chargers, and I
don't you know, we spent so much time on the
running back. But I'll just say this, this debate about
drafted one in the first round, I think I've completely
come to the side of you absolutely should if it's
a game changer, because he enters your program in his prime.

(13:09):
You're gonna have this guy for four or five years
on your team with a guy like Justin Herbert. You know,
if you have Bijean Robinson in the backfield with Justin Herbert,
it makes your offense star near unstoppable. Really, in my opinion,
I just I think a dead he's that type of player.

(13:29):
We've talked about it a lot. One of the things
that I've brought up through social media and engaging with
the fans and some people around the Chargers that do
maybe you know, satellite podcast stuff like that, is don't
think of it as a running back. Think of it
as just one of eleven that helps. How does this
one of or I should say ten. If Justin Herbert

(13:50):
is your number one, right, how do the other ten
players compliment that quarterback? And that's something that Mike Renner
brought up. I want Justin throwing the ball more. That's fine,
not telling, not saying that you have to hand the
ball to Robinson every every play because Bi catch too,
by the way, that's when he's on the field. He's
a receiver, he's in past protection, he's a play action

(14:12):
weapon for Justin Herbert. So like that's what people have
to remember when you have an elite running back. Well,
now your play actions being honored a lot more. Now
you can't now you're stacking the box because Bijan's just
ripped off four or five runs for six seven yards
a carry. The big debate comes in. There's two debates
that I think people fail to follow with the should

(14:35):
I or should I not draft the running back in
the first round. The first is what's the drop off?
What is this separation between Robinson and the player that
I'm going to get in the next round. So from
what's the drop off from Bijean? If I can get
Jamir Gibbs in the second round, if I can get Charbonnet.
If I can get you know, Tank Biggs beat that

(14:56):
that Mike was talking about, what is my pass pro receiving?
What is my drop off there? If it's not that big,
then yeah, let's wait. Now, if Bijan is so far
and away ahead of them, then that's where that conversation
comes into play. The second thing is money. So why
do you want to draft defensive lineman offensive lineman? And

(15:19):
now what the and this goes into the tight end conversation. Right,
wide receivers are not getting paid twenty to twenty five
million bucks a year if you're elite. Offensive lineman are
getting paid twenty to twenty five million dollars a year
if you're elite. Defensive edge rushers are getting paid thirty
million dollars a year if you are elite. So it's
not just the player, it's the money. So if you

(15:41):
feel like this is an elite edge rusher, I'm going
to have him for five years, and I believe he's
going to be elite from the jump. Well, now I'm
paying a guy four million bucks a year instead of
thirty million dollars a year offensive lineman. I believe this
is a starting tackle for the next five year as
well Ermy Tunsel just got twenty five. Landa Brown just

(16:02):
got twenty. Jowan Taylor just got twenty two. Like that's
that's what we're talking about. That and that's what I
think those guys twenty one overall though money, but that's
what I mean. So, like, that's why if you believe
and look that we Renter set it, it's a deep
offensive line class, it's a deep defensive line class. So now, okay,

(16:23):
what's what's cancy? If he's what we think he's gonna be,
what is that guy gonna cost me? If he's as
as we believe he's going to be in year three?
Because guess what, we're not paying him thirty five million
bucks like Aaron Donald's getting. We're paying him three million dollars.
And now we've got that other thirty two million bucks
to go spend on our team in our defense, and
we've got this elite player. So that's the one thing

(16:43):
you have to remember is that money does come into play.
Your top shelf running backs are getting paid twelve million
dollars a year, so you're gonna pay your running back.
You're not saving that much money. The gap, isn't that wide.
And that's the other part of that conversation. Yeah, how
many close games have the Chargers been in the last
two years? All of them? And what would a guy

(17:05):
like Jean Robinson do in terms of assaulting the game
away and icing the game and running the football when
you absolutely have to run the football. I think that
I think about that because we know, listen, Justine still
going to throw the ball forty plus times a game, right,
But if you have someone who can close the game,
who can Mariano Rivera the game for you in the
fourth quarter with six minutes left, I mean, I would

(17:27):
say that's a pretty good asset to have on your offense.
That's it, you know, I don't. I know it'll probably
come off as pointing fingers. I don't mean it to
I just to me. The offense, specifically, the run offense
is going to be so much better with this coordinator.
I was not a fan of the designed runs, even
when the offense was operating at very high level two
years ago. I know it wasn't nearly as effective last year,

(17:50):
but the running game just was not good. And that
could be personnel, it could be play calling. There was
not near enough play action. There weren't nearly enough shot
plays to open things up to let your running game
have a chance. So with Josh and with Austin and
with now what you what you hope is going to

(18:10):
be a healthy offensive line slater Johnson Lindsley saw your Pipkins.
To me, with what you have, you can still have
a very effective running game. You don't you don't necessarily
need be John Robinson to do that. Again, I leave
isayh out just because I don't know. I do know
from what I saw last year that Josh took a step.

(18:31):
Joshua Kelly took a step and looked like a violent
He's gonna bring the pain when he gets that ball.
If you give him a crease, He's not He's not
gonna make you miss. He's not gonna stretch it. And
that's the one interesting thing about Kellen Moore that check
out at the Charger's YouTube channel. What Brett broke down
is the outside zone and being able to stretch, stretch, stretch,

(18:52):
find that gap and you might have to cut back
and run a Kylary you. I don't know how that's
gonna fit. Josh. That's the other thing to keep in mind,
how do these backs that are on the roster fit
into that outside zone scheme that we did not see
a lot of last year. Yeah, and we're not in
those meetings with Brandon Sailing, Kelly Moore, and Tom Tolesco.
They may say, Hey, we're good with Isaiah Spiller, We're

(19:12):
good with Eckler and Josh Kelly, Like Bejan Robinson is
not even in the conversation because we have guys on
the roster that we think can maximize their potential onto
Kellen Moore. So were you know, you're just talking to
talk here at this point with three weeks ago in
the NFL Draft. But there's so many different options and
we had so many questions that you guys submit via Twitter.

(19:34):
Take a quick break and we'll answer them on the
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All right, Bunny, let's get to some of these questions.
This one was directed towards you. I know Money wants

(20:37):
all offense, but what defender would you both consider a
twenty one given lack of depth at corner, edge, linebacker
and future cap Well, I think we already mentioned one
and in Kalijah Cancy, that's, to me is a no brainer.
The interesting one is Nolan Smith. I think he's going

(20:59):
to be there. He just doesn't necessarily fit the profile
of what Brandon Staley likes. Staley likes big, long rushers.
He's he's you know, Nolan is not a big guy,
but man, he is strong. He is nasty, physical, quick
as hell. He's just small, you know, he's like two

(21:21):
hundred and forty pounds and he's not six four. So
that's that's one I think. I think van Ness is
an interesting one at edge because to me, that's where
they would look. I think you're talking about somebody who impacts,
impacts the game from a rush the quarterback sort of.

(21:43):
I don't think you'll get a corner that falls there.
I don't think Wheer, Spooner, Gonzalez or those elite corners
are going to fall. Branches interesting because he's so versatile
and he's starting to slide a little bit after his
pro day, and he can play nickel, he can play safety.
We know how much they value sort of them be
styled defensive back, and how they want to use Derwin
and how they used Gilman, you know, be it high

(22:06):
or low. How they're moving Asante inside outside. So that
branch is an interesting one, just because he slipped a
little bit coming off of his pro day, and I
know some people had him at the start of this
whole process. Is their number one corner, just as their
number one defensive back. They just thought that highly of them,
So that'd be an interesting one where I could see
them maybe having a first round grade on him based

(22:26):
on his tape where he could slide. But van Ness
is an interesting one just because he's a freak. He's
just like one of those you know, Roman statues that
chiseled from marble, that that's out there playing and you know,
is he bodied beautiful or is he you know, this
freak of an athlete that's also a really good player
because he didn't that that that production part if it

(22:47):
wasn't really there. So that's a couple names I think
on the defensive side that maybe if for whatever reason,
Gonzalez where it's been, I don't think they're going to
be their branch is probably the interesting one. At at corner,
can's Nolan Smith. Some people have Miles Murphy there. I
don't know if they'd have a first round grade on him.
So there's a couple names to maybe think about him

(23:09):
there you go more than a couple, and you know,
from a cornerback perspective, I think sometimes we forget that J. C.
Jackson is rehabbing right now. We don't know when he's
gonna be ready, But it's a nice segue into the
next question High Chris and Money. I see JC Jackson
on social media working diligently to recover as soon as
he can from this serious injury. Also read no timeline
for his return. When does he finally return? How much

(23:30):
will that injury affect his level of play from prior
to it? All good questions. I don't have the answer
to any of them. Us are tough ones to answer.
Those are tough ones, and I'm hopeful that JC can
contribute in a meaningful way at some point during the season.
You know, you sawwa Zon did in the in the
playoff game. Michael Davis was fantastic in Jac's absence. Bryce

(23:53):
Callahan's fill a free agent, I think he was signed
by the Chargers in May after the draft last year,
So maybe that quarterback room isn't done yet. Money, But
to what extent we can count on Jc, I think
right now as we sit here April fifth, I don't
know no idea. Just know that after the injury was

(24:13):
described as a really bad injury. That's pretty much all
I know is they said it was a bad one.
So we see him. Though you mentioned you see the
videos talking to guys that are going into the office
every day. They're like, yeah, see here every day, working out,
starting to put a lot of weight on it, starting
to get along, you know, a lot further in his
rehab process. So you need him. There's no depth in

(24:33):
that cornerback room, so you definitely need him. And that's
a lot of money tied up that you're not walking
away from anytime soon. He's here for at least another
two years, so it's it's one of those just cross
your fingers. The interesting thing is going to be what
do you do with Mikey's last year of his deal?
So how do you play that when you've got JC
on that type of number. Assante is going to be

(24:54):
going in to his Asante is going into his third year,
so next year will be his fourth year and then
he'll be a free agent. So that really sort of
flips the corner room on its head, which is why
you might see it when it comes to the draft. Okay,
do they You hate to say it, but do they
have to go corner? You know, because of just the

(25:14):
timing of all of this. What's Michael Davis worth on
the free agent market? And can the Chargers afford it
with the amount of money they already have tied up
in Derwin James and J. C. Jackson. Alloie Gilman is
going to be a free agent at the end of
this year. What if he has a really good year?
So is I kind of go through the board here
of of corners, you have Joey Porters there, Maybe you

(25:36):
take Joey Porter at twenty one. If Deante Banks is there,
maybe you take Deante Banks at at twenty one. So
that's sort of an interesting I think it's I don't
I don't know kind of what the what the approach
would be. Brian Branch should be an interesting one because he's,
like we said, he's so versatile. You can play him

(25:57):
at safety, you can play him at slot, you know.
So that's that's one I think to keep an eye on.
But that is I'm talking through it now. It starts
to make a little more sense. Yeah, corner could be
what you end up doing there in the first round,
just because of the timing on these contracts and these
players that are coming up. That's a good point. That
question was from Crumbo. All right, Charters, Aaron, Yeah, who
would be some dark horse offensive guys already on the

(26:20):
team that should benefit the most from Kellen Moore. He said,
for me, param and Spiller, I think those are two
really good ones. Especially you know, I think Parham still
just scratching the surface head injury history. And we just
mentioned the big question mark around Isaiah Spiller. Maybe he
is a guy who can think of league Well, I
know it's not sexy, but how about the five guys

(26:41):
up front? The Cowboys offensive line is regularly cited as
the best in the league. Now is that because they
have the talent they've invested Zach Martin, best guard, Tyrn Smith,
one of the best left tackles. But when guys went
down and Steele had to step in, these guys are
playing ball. So yeah, to me, that's something to keep
an eye on. Is how good that offensive line was

(27:06):
year in and year out? How is that the offensive
coordinator's job? Not really the offensive line coach tends to
operate on his own separate But how do you use
the offensive line? How are they blocking in your run scheme?
How are they blocking? How are they pass blocking? So
you know, what kind of plays are you calling? What
kind of pass plays are you calling? To help your

(27:28):
offensive line out? So instead of just thinking to the
skill positions, to me, you could also think about the
five guys up front and how they benefit with him
calling plays versus Joe Lombardi the last two years. Certainly
you look at the running backs, you know, and what
Tony Pollard turned into under Kellen, So that's an obvious

(27:49):
place to look. And for everything else, we're just looking
at the continued development of young players. Josh Palmer, Donald Parham,
Trey McKitty. He's a guy that likes to use a
lot of twelve. We talked about that. That means two
tight ends, one running back, two tight ends. So does
that mean the development or Trey McKitty Moore, because he's
got to be out there more and Kellen's gonna be
able to coach him up make him a better tight end.

(28:10):
It's not like Dalton Schultz was a household name when
he when he turned in one of the better all
around tight ends in the league. It was something that
was coached up by Kellen Moore. Yeah, and that's why
they drafted Trey McKitty in the third round. So yeah,
mere cat manner, Why do you guys have such a
preference for tight end? The only tight ends taking in
the first round. That had a big impact since two

(28:31):
thousand have been Verdon Davis and Jeremy Shocky. Even guys
that have been called aliens or generational haven't lived up
to the hype. E. G. Pitts and Joeku, etc. I
won't speak for you money, I'll just I'll start by saying,
I don't think any of those guys had a quarterback
named Justin Herbert, and I think that's that's the intrigue,
is pairing a guy like Dalton kink with somebody like

(28:53):
Justin Herbert. You know, Kyle Pitts is still figuring out
because he doesn't have a quarterback. David and Joeku I
don't remember who his was when he was drafted to Cleveland,
but Cliffland hasn't had a lot of success at the
quarterback position. So Justin Herbert is the reason I think
we are intrigued by Dalton Kincaid, Michael Mayer, and Washington
from Georgia. It's a fair question. My answer would be

(29:16):
that you can apply it to any position. It's it's
all an unknown. It's one great unknown. You're in so
much of it you alluded to it. Chris is circumstance.
What team are you being drafted? You know, to what
team are you being drafted, who's your quarterback, who's thrown
you the passes? What kind of offense are you in?

(29:36):
It's the tight end featured. What division are you in?
How fast are the linebackers, how good are the safeties?
So there's a lot that goes into it. The one
thing I'll say is the tight end position has changed
dramatically the last five years. It has become a true
weapon in the pass game. A because so many teams

(29:57):
are playing thirteen where you've got one tight end, three
wide receivers, and you don't have enough defensive backs. So
typically one of those guys is being covered by a safety.
Your tight end is being covered by a safety that's
too small or a linebacker that's too slow. When you've
got a really good one, and they can really impact

(30:18):
a team's offense because it's a constant mismatch. And there's
a reason why young quarterbacks Jalen Hurts, Lamar Jackson just
go through these young quarterbacks. When last year the Jags
went out and got Evan Ingram, that's it's a it's
an easy completion. That so when so that's your floor.

(30:42):
Your floor is middle of the field, easy completion, red zone,
giant catch radius, big body can help you out as
a blocker and then release. And then when you combine
that with someone that you think has elite skills, well
that's it's almost impossible to cover. And that's why people
get so excited about Dalton Kincaide because just trying to

(31:06):
imagine how is a defense going to stop It's everybody
knew Travis Kelsey was kind of all they had this year.
Tyree Hill was gone. You know, you're content with letting
mvs or juju hurt you in the in the past game,
you just couldn't let Kelsey beach and he still did.
And he's still beat teams to a pulp because he's
that good, because he's that tough of a cover. He's

(31:28):
too big for corners and safeties and he's too fast
for linebackers. So when you can find one of those players,
it's why you see these guys go so high. Now
do they always pan out? No, but just go through
the Okay, let's super Bowl Dallas Goddard Travis Kelsey two
of the best NFC Championship game. George Kittle Dallas Goddard. Obviously,

(31:49):
Joe Burrow can make anybody good, but he's had solid
tight ends there, and they've been searching year in and
you know from Uzama who left last year Croft, they
have regularly been searching for really good tight ends there.
So that's why you do it. This one is from
Andrew with Jason Moore, Michael Bandy, DeAndre Carter not coming back,

(32:11):
and Jalen Guiden still a free agent. How many wide
receivers do you think the Chargers take in the draft? Well,
this is what we do know, right, you got Palmer,
you got Keenan, you got Mike. You got Keenan and
Mike at a very big number in twenty twenty four,
and you don't have speed at the moment at the
wide receiver position. So if they address it in the

(32:34):
first two rounds, three rounds, I wouldn't be the least
bit surprised. I don't know who else is really out
there money and that that third fourth wave of free
agency was speed, because I think that's what they're missing
at this point. Yeah, so you know, I wouldn't be
surprised if there was a wide receiver. There are twenty
one that they liked that that had that juice, you know,
like like as a Flowers who knows well the players

(32:59):
we all just listen were signed as undrafted free agents
or veteran minimums. DeAndre Carter very low money deal late
in the free agent process. Jason Moore was an undrafted,
Michael Bandy was an undrafted. Aj Giten was an undrafted
so Tyrant Johnson was an undrafted That's so there, yeah,
there they'll pull from that pool. They'll they'll bring in

(33:19):
some guys, some college free priority college free agents that
they have their eye on on the back end of
this draft and maybe the first round and maybe the
second and maybe the third the jail. I know, our
friend Lancer Line had Jalen Hyatt going to the Chargers
at twenty one. That seems a little rich based on
everything we're hearing. It was just a monster game against Alabama,
had a good game against I think Akron and one

(33:41):
other smaller school, and everything else was just fair to middling.
So I think that seems a little rich for a
guy that really is I hate to say, like a
one trick pony, but that's hey, go that way real fast.
If the ball comes your way, catch it. And sometimes
he does and sometimes he doesn't. That's that's that's the
speed is elite, elite. Take the top off speed and

(34:03):
it would certainly help the offense, but it seemed like
that might be a little rich for twenty one. You're
trying to force something. So they'll draft the receiver. If
I were a general manager, I would draft the receiver
every single year. Every year I would draft. I would
invest a value pick. I'm talking first four rounds in
a wide receiver. I just think they are that important

(34:23):
now in this game, the way it's played, the way
that it's called. So drafted Josh Palmer two years ago
in the third round. They're not strangers to it. They'll
they'll invest in Mike Williams was drafted number seven overall.
Keenan Allen was a third rounder. They'll draft guys, and
I suspect they'll do the same this year. If maybe
Higat's there in the second, if it's at Perry, it's

(34:45):
some of the guys that we talked about with Renner
last week. So there are players that they can go
get in the second and third round. It's a deep
wide receiver class. It's the way I've heard it describe
is it's not an elite wide receiver class. It's a
deep wide receiver class. Yeah, so maybe maybe second, third,
fourth round is where you see wide receiver. We've talked
about so many different position groups. That's why this draft

(35:06):
is such an unknown. Money you mentioned, Hey, if Tom
is staying true to his board in a guard or
a tackle, it's best available. Maybe you take that. We
talked about edge and you know the age of Khalil
Mack and Joey Bosa. We talked about corner, and you
brought up a great point about having to pay Michael Davison.
It's not a Samuel having the unknown with with J. C. Jackson.

(35:26):
We talked about wide receiver, We've talked about tight end,
We've talked about running back. So at twenty one overall,
I mean, I don't know if there's a specific position
that you're like, man, we have to get this. I
think everything you have to see where the board goes. Yeah, exactly.
This is from our guy, our guys at Charger Chat podcast. Hey,
Chris and Money, this Echolo situation is something you never

(35:49):
want to see with him now taking the negotiations personally,
with his most recent statements, how will this affect the
team and do you think he will be able to
assimilate back in without distractions. Listen, Austin is a professional.
This is a business. I think both sides realize that
this is a business, and sometimes feelings are hurt in business.

(36:11):
But at the end of the day, you gotta show
up to work and you know, honor your contract. And
I think the Chargers allowed Austin to go seek a
trade and that's that's kind of where they are right now.
So again, April Fifth, who knows, But you know, if
it comes down to him being back with the Chargers,
I have no doubt that Austin will maintain his professionalism

(36:33):
and give his his all and one hundred percent to
being the best back he can be for the Chargers.
You would hope, certainly. It's it's a position that carries
a lot of violence, you know, a lot of incoming
violence to it. So to me, it's hard to expect
someone to not have that in the back of their mind.
I've got to go out and get a new contract.
I've got a couple more prime earning years. I can't

(36:56):
afford to get hurt. We know Austin took on all
commerce you know he never went down on first contact.
You hope that's still the case. The one thing I'll
say you mentioned it, he's professional. He's still making six
and a half million bucks from the Chargers is a
lot of money that he's getting paid this year for
his services, and he's got to prove to other teams
that he's still got it. If his thought is I'm

(37:18):
going to be a free agent, I want to get
a big money deal and I'm going to go into
the open market next year and make that money, well
now you got to show it, and you've got to
show that you still got it, so that it's essentially
a free agent prove it year for him that he
is going to be the touchdown leader and back to
back to back seasons and continue to be that touchdown maker.
He's gonna want those carries and he's gonna want those numbers.

(37:41):
So he's gonna want to try to get to a
hundred catches again. So he's gonna be out there making
his point to the other teams that are going to
be interested in him at this time next year. If
the Chargers aren't selfishly and it's not my money and
it's not my cap, that I have to manage. I
would love it if they could figure out a way
to tack on a year. To me, that'd be the
best case. Can you take him it was age twenty
nine year, give them a little bit more money, and

(38:04):
that way you kind of meet in the middle. Hey,
you're not getting a three year deal at twenty eight.
It's teams just aren't going to do it. They're not
going to give you big money into that year thirty
age thirty age thirty one year. But we'll give you
a little bit more as thank you for the previous
two years, and we believe you can still be an
effective back for at least the next two. So here's
a little something makes feel better. I wonder if that

(38:26):
you know, unfortunately time has pat that ship is sailed,
and that's not going to happen. But to me, that
and again, I'm not the one that's got to figure
out how to make all this cap work and get
everything to fit with all the needs and the depth.
You know, you've already got the guy for six point
two five, and there's really no reason to do it
other than I'm not operating from just a straight business standpoint.
I guess I'm operating from a bit of an emotional

(38:48):
standpoint as well, But to me, that would be the
best case. Winning also raises your profile, right, So if
this is the last year of his deal and the
Chargers in and he does everything he's done in the
last two years, it'll make him that much more attractive
on the open market too. If if that's what it's
going to be in twenty twenty four, we love aust

(39:10):
and I think they'll go ahead. On the flip side
of that too, Chris is he may not want that.
Maybe the Chargers already offered it. It's possible the Chargers
are like, hey, we'll give you a year, and he
and his agent said, that's not what we're looking for.
We're willing for long term. We do not want a year.
The last thing that they may say, the last thing
that they want is to take him into his year
twenty nine. They're trying to get that three years at

(39:32):
twenty eight because now that he's taken through twenty nine O,
there's no chance we're getting another deal after this. That's
not you know, in the minimum range. So it's possible
that they're just not interested in that too. I don't
want to make that a one sided position of well,
the Chargers should just do this. Aculer may not want
it that. They may have said, we'll give you one
extra year, we'll give you a bump up to let's
say nine million bucks or something, and they said, no,
not interested. Yep, that's that's something that is TBD. Again,

(39:59):
we're at the beginning of April, got a long way
to go until training camp at the end of July. So, um,
this is from Brandon aside from John Johnson. What free
agents would you like to see the team pursue either
pre or post draft. Keep in mind guys like Kyle
van Noy and Morgan Fox and Bryce Callahan. I believe
they were all signed after the draft last year money,

(40:20):
So um, I would listen, there's a there's a lot
of decent players I shouldn't say decent, A lot of
good players that are still available in this like third, fourth,
fifth wave of free agency. UM, I don't know if
there's anybody that stands out to you. I was taking
a look at, you know, even up pulling up Greg
Rosenthal's top one hundred right now and dock Ways out there.

(40:43):
I'm gonna saying Dockways that one name that stood out
to me the most. Jadeveon Clowney really good on the
edge to help with the run, but not they not
necessarily the best pass rusher Rocky is scene at corner.
Reisner interior or Isaiah Wynn, who's just been a disaster.

(41:04):
Marcus Peters interesting coming off the ACLA. Now. Leonard Floyd's
interesting because we know we know Brandon Staley loves him.
He's not someone that's gonna come cheap. But if you
can figure out a way to craft the contract. We
know that Staley loves that guy, had him in Chicago,
had him in LA. So that's possibility. Old friend alert

(41:26):
Melvin Ingram. Would he want to come back and play
his last year on the charge unit? Situational pass Rodger
at thirty five. Frank Clark was let go by the
by the Chiefs, so he's out there. Heck, we know
full well what he can do, as having to face
him a couple of times. You already mentioned Bryce Callahan
is still out there. I'm sure Brandon Staley wants John

(41:48):
Johnson to me, that's I think that's a lowise position.
I think they're comfortable with that. They don't want to
spend the money so to me, those are me those
are just like what is it going to cost you?
What are we what are we looking at? How much
do you want? How long do you want? Can we
make it work? Sort of thing? But yeah, one of

(42:10):
those edge rushers in Gockway, Clark, Um Floyd, I'm a
super cheap side of thing Ingram. So it's bottom line,
there's guys. Yeah, there's players out there. Yeah, there's there's
definitely players out there from Louise who would be a

(42:31):
good replacement for Carter as a punt returner wide receiver. Ford.
Do you think they could double dip and draft two
wide receivers? You know, last week we talked about DeAndre
Carter and I think somebody somebody made mention that we
like it was overblown. How how big of a loss
it is. I'll just say this, the special teams the
last three or four years before DeAndre Carter and Andre

(42:53):
Roberts got into that position, it was tough. It was tough,
and when you stabilize it, obviously you want to make
sure you have somebody who can you could pass the
torch too. I don't know who that guy is. I'm
sure Ryan Ficken does. And Ryan Ficken has a plan
and Brandon Salia has a plan. Uh, I don't know
if that guy's on the roster right now, buddy. Maybe
it's somebody they do draft possible. You know. It's it's

(43:15):
typically not a position player because you want those guys
to it's it's a very dangerous position that tends to, unfortunately,
face a lot of injury. I'm just going through I'm
going through player statistics here, so let's go returning. Um,
how who are our best return that's for team. The

(43:36):
thing that's interesting is when you go through it, it's
not like we mentioned this last year, last year, last week.
It's not like there's a ton of a ton of
elite players out there. So I think that's that's something
to keep in mind as I'm looking for like Keishan Nixon. Right,

(43:56):
these aren't household names m waganu Wanagu. There we go,
guy from Minnesota, Brandon Powell, Jerome for these are the
top returners in terms of sort of who you know,
Marcus Jones A mir Abdulah, think about plucking him off
the scrap heap as a backup running back. Returner DeAndre

(44:16):
Carter was seventh tied for seventh in kickoff returns. In
punt returns, you had let's see Keyshaan Nixon at twelve seven,
Marcus Jones at twelve five. DeAndre Carter was fourth at
eleven seven, but really third because Pharaoh Cooper at the
top and only returned twelve of them in five games. So,

(44:37):
Braxton Barrios, what I'm getting at is, these are all Ray,
Ray McLeod. These are a lot of these are free agents,
you know, inexpensive free agents that are signed, and that's
something that you should be able to find. And maybe
a lot of it is more about Thicken and his
system and the blocking and getting that part of it right,
and the returner a sort of the cherry on the

(44:58):
on the Sunday. All right, this is for money I
fear most likely Chargers win fourteen games or a top
three offense. This is for Matt money Smith. Fourteens a
lot of games. Did anybody win fourteen games last year?
I don't think so. Right, Oh my god? How many
won fourteen games last year? Right? Yeah? I think thirteen

(45:21):
was was the high. I want to say. Yeah. The
Bills were third. Oh no, the Eagles went fourteen and three.
So considering one out of thirty two did it last year?
I'm gonna say fourteen and three gonna be tough in
a division with Patrick Mahomes in a conference with where
where you're going. Let's see the Chargers, if I remember right,

(45:43):
they're going to play the AFC East, so they've got
to play Josh Allen, Miami, Bill Belichick, the Jet Robert
Salas Jets defense. I think they get what are our
I can't remember it's the NFC North this year, so
maybe you catch a little bit of a break there,
but you got a lot of teams on the com Yeah,
fourteen seems a little it seems very unlikely. I'll just

(46:05):
I'll leave it at that. As far as the offense,
I expect the offense to be very good. I do.
I think Kellen Moore is the right guy, Justin Herbert
is an elite quarterback, still has Mike Williams, Keenan Allen,
Austin Eckler, a solid offensive line. I would not be
surprised if I'm so fourteen. I'm going through all of
these now, No, no, no, it's better than all of these,
better than all of these, better than all of these.

(46:28):
Eagles offense could end up better than the Chargers. Cowboys
lose Kellen Moore and Mike McCarthy's talking about running the
ball more now better than that. So right now I've
got one potential I think in the NFC in the Eagles, Denver,
no Raiders, no Chargers, Chiefs Okay, So maybe that's a
second offense that's ahead of them through the South, and

(46:48):
Jacksonville would be the would be the only one in
the North. The Bengals, we know, the Ravens, it's all
Lamar dependent. Don't know what's going to happen there. And
the Browns interesting full season with the Shawn Watson, all
the weapons they have there, Nick Chubb, Maury Cooper, they
got a lot going on in Cleveland. Or the Charger

(47:10):
is going to be better than the Bills on offense.
So yeah, I'll go top five, top five offense for
the Chargers next season. I feel good about that, all right. Chris,
does this team view defensive line as a need? It's
a good question, I think with Austin Johnason coming back, Sebaston,
Joseph Day, Morgan, Fox, Tito a Bonia, I think everyone
forgot Tito got hurt too, So that's a nice nucleus,

(47:32):
but you can never have enough, and you know, maybe
maybe it is a neat in the draft money. Huge
need just because we talked about it, you know, I
think you really wanted Chris Rump to take that next
step and unfortunately got banged up again. He had flashes,
that's for sure, but so it's a huge need. Joey

(47:52):
Bosa was injured for nearly the entire season and it
was a struggle to replace him. Van noy finally started
come on on in the back, and I'm hopeful I
didn't mention Van Noi as a free agent. I'm very
hopeful because we hear he wants to stay out here.
So I'm hoping they can figure something out with Kyle
to come back because he really started to settle into

(48:13):
that role as an edge as opposed to an inside linebacker.
So they need, yes, they need help. Don't know when
Austin Johnson or Tito We're going to be back. Braden
Fijocos out there shopping for a deal from a team. Yes,
they defensive line. Braydon signed with the Steelers yesterday, So
that's Steelers signed with the Steelers. Yeah, that's right, So

(48:35):
he's gone. Um, Yeah, I think especially at edge, especially
at edge, because I don't know if you can fully
go into twenty twenty three confident that that Joey and
Khalil are going to be on the field for all
seventeen and Rump is your third guy. And so love
that they brought back Morgan Fox. Yes, it is a priority.
They need another edge rusher. They could probably use another

(48:57):
body or two on the inside. They like Chris Hinton
a lot. They really liked what he did when he
came on a couple last I don't know, four or
five games and then into the playoffs. So I think
that's why Fijoko was let go. They decided to keep
hitting and between those two. So all right, this is
from bull Fit twenty four. Oh no, no it's not.
I already did that one, Alvaro. If American Kaide and

(49:20):
Robinson are out of the first should the Chargers trade
back to get more draft capital and hope on getting
Gibbs Washington Hyatt. We kind of talked about, Yes, we
talked about that. My preference is that they trade backs.
That's what my preference is. I think they need to
get deeper, they need depth. We just talked about that.

(49:42):
Defensive line. They need bodies on the defensive line. I
would love to see another offensive lineman draft at high
I'd love to see wide receivers like I want everything,
and unfortunately they don't have thirty picks. So I'm trying
to get more picks to get as much as if
I'm the Chargers, I'm trying to get more picks to
get more players, more bites at the apple to try
to find starters. This is from Gerald Garrow. We haven't

(50:05):
talked about Darwin that much, so this is a good question.
Do you think Darwin James will play near the line
of scrimmage this season instead of moving him all around
the defense from last season. I think people are saying
Darwin playing close to the line will help better benefit
the defense, so instead of using him as Yeah, so
it's but yeah, it's not. It's not on the line

(50:27):
of scrimmage, Chris, it's just close to the ball that
the I get why you put him up high, But
to me, the idea of being able to move him
around just speaks to how elite of a player he is.
That you can stack him opposite Travis Kelsey, that you
can put him on a team's best receiver on their
tight end. We saw him on Davante Adams at the
end of that Raider game when it started getting close,

(50:48):
like that's that's what. He's a special player, no matter
what he's doing, if he's rushing the pastor if he's
on the line of scrimmage to stop the run. But
you're gonna lose a little bit by just leaving him,
by just treating him as a box safety. He can
play slot, he can play high, he can he can
play edge. So that's that's why they use them the
way they do. To me, the more interesting question, you know,

(51:12):
apologies to I don't remember who you said asked it.
I don't mean to reframe your question, but are we
going to see him closer to the line of scrimmage
more often? Don't for me, I don't want to remember.
The vision last year was we're drafting JT. Woods, We're
going to play JT and Nas high. That's going to
allow us to put Drwin wherever we want, and it

(51:33):
just didn't come to fruition. So my hope is Allowie
and JT now can play high, and Derwin can do
what we thought he was going to have a shot
to do last year that JT with a year of
trying to figure this thing out. Because we know he's
got the we know he's got the trades, he's got
the speed, he's got the ability. He just did not
quite have the vision and the instincts last year. And

(51:56):
that's very It's a lot to ask of a high safety.
So I'm hoping what full year of being able to
take in very complicated defense that Brandon Staley runs, that
JT is going to be ready for that role and
we're going to see a lot more of Derwin close
to the line of scrimmage all over the field with
those two guys high. Yeah, three months from now when
we do our training camp storylines, j T woods big

(52:19):
one leap from year one of the year two is
going to be one of the main storylines. Foa Heli.
Speaking of Alohe, what are we expecting from Gilman and
Nick Nieman this year? Both guys stepped out towards the
end of the year and played well. Do we see
extended roles for them? You mentioned Alohe and how it's
probably his job listen. Nieman's been great on special teams.
Is that somebody who maybe get a little bit more

(52:40):
run and linebacker, not with the signing of Kendricks, because
coach Daley plays a ton of just one linebacker six
defensive back sort of sets right with Derwin acting as
that second linebacker. So could you see him, Yeah, I
mean that would mean he's not taken away reps from
Eric Kendricks. Eric's gonna be the green dot, would be

(53:01):
my guest. He'll essentially be the play caller on that
defensive side of the ball. That's why they brought him in.
They talked about not just his ability, but his intellect
and what they wanted from him. So he's going to
be on the field like Drew was last year every
single play, which means you're now talking about Nieman instead
of Kenneth Murray. And that would mean that Nick took
a big step and Kenneth didn't. So is that possible. Yeah,

(53:25):
it's possible, but I'd be very surprised. He's an elite
special teams player and those guys are important. Gosh, we
know that. So he'll continue to be an elite special
teams player. But if he's playing more, it's probably a
product of Kenneth not progressing and not playing well. That's
my vision of how he would get on the field.

(53:47):
I don't really see any other path for him. Guys,
thank you for all your questions. I don't know if
we got to all of them. We got to most
of them. What about Lindsay's Well, you have to think
we're any of him this one. So yeah, our good
friend Lindsay theory. Um, who are they taking with the
twenty first overall pick? I figured that's your Chris money.
Is that? Is that me? That's is that me? Okay?

(54:08):
So so twenty first overall on April fifth. I don't
think the running back's gonna be there. I don't think
Kincaide's gonna be there. I'm gonna say Michael Mayer because
of past Notre Dame players who have been drafted by
the Chargers, it's a safe batman, it's a safe bet

(54:29):
and uh and he's gonna do it all tight end
and listen. I think I think Brett's video maybe influenced
me a little bit too. And I think he can
he can do a lot of the things that Dalton
can do. He maybe not his skilled with with the
ball skills, but um, Michael Mayer overall solid tight end
for Justin Herbert. What about you money, I'm gonna go

(54:52):
zay Flowers today on April fifth, I go Zay Flowers.
Just need to have I like I like the zay
Flowers pick. Yeah, I need to have explained very head
players on this on this offense need it desperately. I
want to see more balls getting pushed down field, and
I think Say would would encourage that. At the same time,
I wouldn't mind an old lineman. I wouldn't mind a

(55:13):
d lineman. I wouldn't know. There's a lot of things
I wouldn't mind whatever, But yeah, thanks Lindsay. Yep, that
was Lindsay actually chimed in first two, which I really
appreciate it. I think I think I put this sweet
at eight thirty and her time stip is eight thirty.
So there you go, thank you, perfect time. A Uh, well,

(55:33):
you know we should do another one the day before
the draft. We'll do another Q and a day before
the draft. Maybe we'll get somebody onto to help answer
some of these questions. Money, I'll work on a guest
for next week. I always appreciate your time, brother, We'll
see you next week. All right, all right, guys, all right, guys,
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