Guilty as Charged: Full 2023 AFC Preview

Steven Haglund and Tyler Schoon of the Guilty as Charged podcast are bringing their insights and perspective to the Chargers podcast network, every Tuesday! This week, they preview where the Bolts stand in the AFC for the 2023 NFL season, break down the biggest offseason moves in the conference (3:00), and sort the AFC contenders into tiers (29:00).

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:13):
Hey, what is up everybody? Welcome to the Guiltiest Charge Podcast,
presented by the Chargers Podcast Network. My name is Steven.
I am the host. Before anybody says anything, this is
at a University of Utah t shirt. Family friend is
on the Utah softball team. I have to give them
a shout out today as they're in the big tournament
up there in Salt Lake City. So I just had
to throw that out there. You know, Utah shirt is

(00:34):
definitely not a cheap shirt. Utah shirt one hundred percent
of the way. Tyler's joining me as well. Man, Tyler,
what's up man? How are you doing this afternoon?

Speaker 2 (00:41):
I'm okay. I'm still sick.

Speaker 3 (00:42):
I feel like I've been hit by the Dallas Cowboys
media bus.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
But I've got my tea here, I've.

Speaker 3 (00:48):
Got my Chargers Pajamason and so you know, I get
knocked down, but I will get up again.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
There you go, There you go. You know, we were
joking the other day that we always get sick of
our break. So it's the beauty of working in education.
I feel like, as you just get you always get
sick on breaks. You know, it is what it is.
So I got a fun show plan for you guys. Today,
we're gonna be running through some of the biggest moves
of the off season in the AFC, and then we're
gonna be kind of trying to sort how we view

(01:16):
these teams in this conference. So now that we've had
a few weeks removed from the drafts we've had, you know,
most of these teams are about ninety five ninety eight
percent of the way done. We'll see some minor moves
here and there, like the Chargers did with Nick Williams
picking him up this past week, but for the most part,
the dust has settled on the conference and it's a
stacked conference. So I'm very curious to see how this

(01:38):
has shaken out between the two of us, so excited
to dive in. Of of course, we're gonna put a
lot of Chargers spin on things and the Charge we'll
be mentioned in terms of the off season moves, in
terms of you know, sorting, that's where we're gonna spend
the majority of our time is seeing how the charters
stack up against the rest of these teams. So it's
gonna be a lot of fun. As always, Tyler and

(02:00):
I are fans, we are independent content creators for the
Chargers channel. We are not employees of the team, so
the opinions that we share on this channel during this
video are not reflective of the franchise and the organization's view.
So we're excited to be here today as always, we're
excited to dive into this show. But we are fans
just like you guys. We just happen to be making
this kind of content. So before we get started as well,

(02:23):
make sure and do us a favor and go subscribe
to the channel here on the Chargers Feed, as well
as our own on the Guiltiest Charged, where we have
plenty of other content throughout the week. We do really
appreciate that, all right, Tyler. That being said, we're going
to dive into the five biggest, juiciest, most relevant moves
of the off season for AFC teams and how it

(02:44):
could impact our rankings as well as ultimately the season.
I think you and I were kind of on the
same page in terms of the biggest move I think
everybody kind of is, and that's the Jets acquisition of
Aaron Rodgers, Jets ultimately sending the Packers a pick swap
this year at least one second round pick from this
past year's draft, and then a potential first round pick

(03:08):
next year, assuming Aaron Rodgers meets some snap count threshold.
So how do you think Aaron Rodgers impacts the Jets
this year? Because I think the perception from the Jets
and what they're sending is that, hey, where you feel
like we're a quarterback away from really making some noise
in the AFC. Do you share that same opinion? And
how do you think Aaron maybe might take them a

(03:29):
step further than just like making the playoffs.

Speaker 3 (03:32):
Yeah, No, I do think that this is a team
that can be considered a quarterback away because I do
think they have enough pieces on offense, and they certainly
had a really good defense. But it really did come
down to the quarterback play, which was both shaky and inconsistent.
I mean, there was no set quarterback for them. It
was well, hopefully it was gonna be Zach Wilson, but
then it was White, and then it was Flacco, and

(03:52):
it was just like, who can we have but Zach Wilson?
And then there was that debacle with the whole locker
room thing, and you know, did you feel like it.

Speaker 2 (03:59):
Was on the offense at all that sort of thing.

Speaker 3 (04:01):
So bringing in someone like Aaron Rodgers, the difference is significant. Like,
no matter what the Jets last year were with the
thirty sixth and Epapril played with Flacou, thirty fifth with
Wilson Rogers in his last year with the Packers, even
though it wasn't a great year, was still twenty third.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
Is that elite? Is that top five? No?

Speaker 3 (04:19):
But I do feel like he can return more towards
that upper tier.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
I don't think he's gonna hang in the twenties this year.
And the Jets are a very good They have very
good defense, and not the defense. I know that your
defense wins.

Speaker 3 (04:33):
Championships is the big you know thing that we've always
heard our whole lives, but not really anymore. But having
a good defense and a solid offense is certainly very helpful.
Jet Rodgers can certainly help with the Jets. Jets defense
was sixth and epa per played last year, fifth and
dv away, So you know, how good does he have
to be?

Speaker 2 (04:52):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (04:52):
It's certainly not the easiest division anymore. It used to
just kind of be the one team and everybody else.
Now it seems like a lot of these teams are
reloading in the AFC East. But you know, at minimum,
I never would have considered the Jets a contender before this,
or not a contender a playoff team before this, and
now I kind of have to because if everything plays
together like it should and Rogers does hit, it's a

(05:15):
very overall talented team that I do feel as a
quarterback away from playoff contention.

Speaker 1 (05:22):
Yeah, I think you look at the Jets in twenty
twenty two and you see, obviously the quarterback position was
kind of a debacle for them with Zach Wilson and
you know the guys that you mentioned. So they ended
the season twenty sixth in DVWAY on offense, and it
was like all those teams at the end, we're all
jumbled right next to each other. So they could have
easily been thirty second. They had a solid run game

(05:44):
for what it's worth, with the Floor Brother and Brece
Hall and offensive line, so that kind of, you know,
booy them up a little bit more than I think
people would would think. And so you know, defensively, they
were a top five union on DVOA as well last season.
So whether or not that can be sustainable for this
team remains to be seen. You know, defense is really

(06:06):
you know, it's recently fluctuated pretty heavily for in terms
of production and E p A and dv A like,
it's very hard to sustain a top five defense. So
what's the best way to combat that? You go and
improve your offense every single year. And so the Jets
have done a pretty good job, in my opinion, investing
in offensive line play, investing in skill positions. You know this,

(06:26):
this wide receiver unit led by Garrett Wilson, who was
the offensive Rookie of the Year last year, should certainly
be better than what Aaron Rodgers was dealing with last
year in Green Bay because you already have a guy
like Wilson, you obviously bring over Lazard from Green Bay.
You have Corey Davis in that room as well. So
I've got a good tight end group with Jack Tyler
Conklin almost said Jack Conklin, that's the tackle for the Browns.

(06:49):
Tyler Conklin and c j Uzama both really good veteran
tight ends. Briest Hall. They drafted Izzy Yaba, I can't
pronounce his last name, but the running back from Pittsburgh
they drafted this year, who a lot of people were
fans of so the offense should be better just by talent.
And then you drop in Aaron Rodgers into that picture,
who I think is past his prime but still should

(07:11):
have enough to play. And we've seen Aaron in the
past be very motivated by certain things, and you know
that led to some MVP seasons from him. So I
still like, we'll see how we sort the Jets ultimately,
but I'm still a little hesitant to buy fully in
to what Aaron has been. You know, over the last
few months, he seems more bought in with the Jets,

(07:33):
but I'm still a little skeptical myself of what he's
going to bring to the Jets.

Speaker 2 (07:38):
Yeah, and that's completely fine.

Speaker 3 (07:40):
It's it's he's an interesting person to try to figure out,
that's for sure. So we don't know what's going to happen.
And you know, the Jets, I don't even sure if
he's going to be their quarterback the following year. Like
there's there's so much uncertainty there with him and his situation.
And last year we saw all these teams get quarterbacks
and acquire things in the AFC arms race.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
And end up being the Chiefs again.

Speaker 1 (08:01):
So you know, guys like.

Speaker 3 (08:02):
Russell Wilson de Shawn Watson for very different reasons, various
reasons it didn't work out, So I would understand the skepticism.

Speaker 1 (08:09):
Yeah, and at the end of the day, I respect
the Jets for going out and taking a big swing.
I mean, they very easily signed Derek Carr. They could
have traded for Ryan Tannehill, but they clearly wanted to
take a big swing and ended up getting Aaron Rodgers.
So it should be a lot of fun. Man, this
is gonna be the first time Justin Herbert gets to
play against Aaron Rodgers, although in New York as opposed
to in Green Bay. So of course, the one season

(08:31):
the Chargers are scheduled playing Green Bay, Aaron Rodgers is
not the quarterback there, but should be fun to see
what he brings to the Jets. Second one here, what's
the second move of the offseason in terms of AC
teams that you wanted to highlight.

Speaker 3 (08:44):
Yeah, it's gotta be Sean Pitton to the Broncos. I
guess it almost has to be by default. After that,
I feel like there's a cluster of things we could
talk about, but that's the big one. I think in theory,
the Broncos should start better than they did last year.
There won't be those you know, time management gaffs, those
end of the game gaffs that I Hackett had, which

(09:05):
is kind of a national embarrassment for them.

Speaker 2 (09:07):
I am assuming that that's not gonna happen with Sean Payton.

Speaker 3 (09:11):
What's really interesting here for this year and really moving
forward is the dynamic between Peyden and Wilson, two guys
who kind of want to have their way. I mean,
not that we know everything about Russell Wilson. Some of
its speculation, some of it's you know, gossip, that sort
of thing. But you know, Peyton is entering this organization
they traded for him. He's going to get his way.

(09:32):
Russell Wilson is, in theory, like used to having his
way and things didn't end in Seattle so hot.

Speaker 2 (09:38):
So I think the floor for.

Speaker 3 (09:39):
This team is potentially raised, with the exception of there
could be a disaster point in here where these two
personalities maybe don't clash, things don't work out. Suddenly there's
finger pointing and Sean Payton goes, Nope, not the quarterback.
I want to run my offense in the end, So
again I do think the floor is raised. I think
they start better than they did. They certainly finished I

(10:00):
think pretty strong. They took it to the Chargers in
week eighteen, they took it to the Chiefs twice and
like almost back to back weeks. So there there's good
players and a good team in there, I think somewhere.
But I'm more skeptical of the Broncos than i am
the Jets because I feel like there's there's a potential
powder cake scenario in there too.

Speaker 1 (10:19):
Yeah, I mean obviously some of that too is how
you feel about the quarterback. I mean I would I would.
I would probably take the Jets defense and a vacuum
over the Broncos defense. But Sean Payton definitely raises the
floor of the Denver Broncos. Like you mentioned the end
of game scenarios, and also just like they you know,
hack it and that coaching staff is and they don't
have the same kind of like cache, if you will,

(10:40):
of saying like hey, like we've been there, done that,
and you know we're gonna do this our way. There
reports coming out of training camp that it was like
this is Russ's offense and we're like we're leaning all
the way into like the Russ approach, and obviously you
know the he had like his own office on the
coaching the coaching staff floor and like everything like that.
So I just like the way that they approached that

(11:01):
season just was kind of set up for failure from
the beginning. That's not gonna be the case with Sean Payne,
and I think some of that is also reflective in
how they approached their draft, their free agency. I mean,
they signed two big contracts in terms of offensive linemen,
in terms of Mike McGlinchey and Ben Powers, and those
are two guys who are better run blockers than pass protectors.
They draft another running back in this class, you have

(11:23):
Javonte Williams coming back, they signed some magic p Ryn,
So Sean Payne's kind of telling us like, hey, we're
gonna run the ball and we're gonna get back to
how Russ was successful probably early on in his career.
So the Broncos are going to be more formidable than
this past year. But statistically, Russ really hasn't been Russ
since twenty twenty. So how the Broncos handle this season,

(11:46):
I think it's gonna be very insightful to how they
view Russell Wilson down the road because there's like some
injury guarantees similar to how Derek Carr's contract was set up,
and so the Broncos could get to, you know, we
twelve and they could be, you know, below five hundred
and decide hey, like let's let's hang Russ up and

(12:06):
then we don't have to pay him this money and
then we can move on in the offseason. So, like
you mentioned, I do agree for like the Broncos this
year their floor will be higher. But I'm more concerned
from a Chargers perspective about the Broncos in the future
with Sean Payton than I am immediately in twenty twenty three.

Speaker 3 (12:23):
Ooh yeah, I like that, And that doesn't make some
sense because we've It's tough to say because last time
we saw Russell Wilson against.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
The Chargers it was not pretty for the Chargers. So
we'll see.

Speaker 3 (12:34):
But yeah, there's only so much longer this can continue.
I don't know how much more there is to salvage
with Russell Wilson, but yeah, I could see that moving forward.
Just whoever Sean Payton brings in next that new era
that is certainly more concerning, especially if they can do
it really quickly as early as next year while the
defense is relatively young and really good.

Speaker 1 (12:53):
Yeah, I will. I'm curious about like the negative outcome
probability here, because the last time we saw Sean Payton
coaching the New Orleans Saints offense in twenty twenty one
was not exactly great. I understand that was after the
Drew Brees era, but the twenty twenty one Saints were
twenty third in offensive DVA that year, So it wasn't

(13:14):
like Sean Payton like went out on top and then
retired and then decided to come back. Like, how likely
do you think this does not work out for the
Broncos in the way that they're hoping. I mean, I'm
not gonna say like they're they're probably hoping that this
sends in a Super Bowl win at some point in
the future. But like a lot of Broncos fans are
very very excited about this upcoming twenty twenty three season.

(13:36):
And obviously we talked about Russell. But what are the
chances that you think Sean Payton is just kind of
maybe being a little slightly overvalued right now?

Speaker 2 (13:45):
Hmmm. I don't know what the percentage would be there.

Speaker 3 (13:50):
It's certainly possible, and I don't know if he will
ever be able to answer that if he finds out
or really the Broncos find out that Russell Wilson isn't
their guy.

Speaker 2 (13:59):
So it's possible, It's very possible.

Speaker 3 (14:05):
I don't know if that this is the greatest Broncos
offensive corps, you know, compared to what he had with
the saintsman when they were at their peaks.

Speaker 2 (14:12):
So we'll see, we'll see.

Speaker 1 (14:16):
Yeah, should be interesting to see Brandon State's defense go
up against the Saints' offense in Denver twice next season,
So I'm excited for those games this year, all right.
Next one here that we wanted to get to, obviously
the Miami Dolphins. There's a lot of interesting discussion between

(14:36):
the Chargers and Dolphins on social media, mostly regarding the quarterbacks.
But you know, the Dolphins ultimately winning the Vic Vangio
sweepstakes this year. Reportedly, Vic had like eight teams lining
up to offer him contracts, and he's making more money
than a bunch of head coaches in the league this
year to be Miami's defensive coordinator. Pretty drastic change too

(14:59):
from the Patriot It's type defense that they've been employing previously.
And we're gonna two part this as well, because the
Dolphins traded for Jalen Ramsey to kind of, you know,
take their big swing of the offseason. So, Tyler, what
do you make of the Dolphins approach getting Vic Vangio
and Jalen Ramsey this year?

Speaker 2 (15:18):
Pretty darn smart.

Speaker 3 (15:19):
I mean, Fangio was the hot commodity out there in
terms of this coaching cycle, and I don't recall if
he interviewed for a head coaching job or not, but
he was certainly the hottest coordinator candidate out there until
maybe Kellen Moore became available.

Speaker 2 (15:31):
This is in the pairing with Jalen Ramsey. This is
big for them, and.

Speaker 3 (15:36):
It's sort of opposite of the Jets Roger situation, where
the offense was really solid, they just needed they never
really put it together on defense.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
There's too much talent.

Speaker 3 (15:45):
Kind of reminds me of like the Browns, where there's
so much talent on that defense, but you look at
the numbers and it's like fifteenth and dv away, twenty
fourth and EPA per play, Like it's not where they
really should have been and it's not like that division.

Speaker 2 (15:58):
Last year it was all that.

Speaker 3 (16:00):
Great on offense where it's like, oh my gosh, we
just you know, the numbers aren't so hot because we're
playing really great offenses every week. Not really, so, you know,
I guess in some sense, their own offense made it
difficult for their defense because they were consistent shootouts. But
getting Fangio, getting Ramsey, you know, a proven coordinator in

(16:20):
the AFC, Ramsey a proven cornerback in the AFC and NFC.
You know, Ramsey sure not his prime self, but still
a very good corner it could be potentially dangerous. I
don't know what to make of them because even though
I think this is a slam dunk awesome set of
moves for them, it all comes down to the quarterback.
So what does that mean for their outlook? I'm not sure,

(16:42):
but we'll talk about that in a bit.

Speaker 1 (16:45):
Yeah, I think it's a smart approach from them, because
I think the defense was pretty clearly the weak part
of their team last year outside of like backup quarterback.
So you get big Vangie to come in and I
think just provide a little bit more of a higher floor,
similar to conversation to like on painting here, with Vic Vangio,
and like that could have been enough. Honestly, like they
could have been a much improved unit with just hiring

(17:07):
Big Vangio. I mean, they've got a good amount of talent,
you know, Javon Holland. I think Zavian Howard's kind of
passed his prime, but still still a quality football player,
Bradley Chubb, Jalen Phillips. They signed David Long, the linebacker
from Tennessee to play that. You know, obviously, Christian Wilkins
one of the best defensive tackles in the league, So
they could have just said, looked at his defense that hey,

(17:27):
we just need like a better voice in the room
and we can call it good on that defensive side
of the ball. But going out and getting Jalen Ramsey,
I think was a big move. I asked Quinton Johnson
on our show or on our channel last week, which
corner he was most excited to go up against. He said,
Jalen Ramsey. So that matchup in Week one, I think

(17:49):
there's gonna be a lot of focus on like Tua
and Justin Herbert and stuff like that. But on this
channel last week, we talked about Michael Davis versus Tyreek Hill.
You know, Big Van g versus Brandon Stadie, Like, there's
a lot of great storylines in that matchup. So this
Miami Dolphins defense is way more interesting with Vic and
Jalen Ramsey than I think it was previously. And when

(18:11):
you have Josh Allen and division, we have Aaron Rodgers
in division and generally playing the AFC, like, it does
make sense to load up on defensive talent too.

Speaker 3 (18:21):
Quit A Johnson versus Jalen Ramsey. How many times are
we going to get that?

Speaker 2 (18:25):
Do you think? Because I don't know.

Speaker 1 (18:26):
I don't think very much. I don't think very much.
You know, the approach with the Dolphins and Jalen is
going to be really interesting to see how he kind
of shadows people. He had obviously one of his best
seasons under Brandon Stay in twenty twenty, and one of
the things that made that marriage, if you will, so
great was that Jayleen would play in the slot a
lot more often than he previously had. So Jalen's a

(18:50):
guy that is not going to be afraid to go
up against a team's number one receiver if it's a
slot receiver, and so we might see him glued to
Keenan Allen's hip, but I think we'll see it occasionally,
depending on like receiver rotation.

Speaker 3 (19:01):
Yeah, I was just wondering because in terms of the hierarchy,
no offense to Quinton Johnston, but I'm going after the
other two guys that are making twenty million.

Speaker 2 (19:08):
Dollars a year that are pretty good.

Speaker 3 (19:10):
I don't know if you can tell by week one
what Quentin Johnson's gonna be and if that's like, Okay,
that's the guy we're going to take out. Guy we
have no film on that they just drafted. Who's not
Keenan out or Mike Williams. No offense to him, but
I just hey, take you know, take a bantge of
your matchups. If you want to get two hundred yards
on two plays against Jialan Ramsey, I'm all for it.

Speaker 1 (19:29):
That would be a great way to start your rookie season. Man,
go up against Jayles Ramsey, give him a a couple
of bills. That'd be great. All right, Next one here,
we're kind of lumping Ravens offseason in general here. Obviously,
the Lamar Jackson stuff really was the headliner for the Ravens,
but they hired Todd Mounkin from away from Georgia. The
last time we had seen Todd Mounkin in the NFL

(19:51):
was down in Tampa Bay with Jameis Winston and Ryan
Fitzpatrick and all those guys. And I think we've seen
a very successful Georgia offense over the last few seas.
And so again like just replacing Greg Roman with Todd Mnkin,
that would have been enough. You get the Lamar extension,
you obviously signed Odell Beckham junior, and then you draft
say Flowers in the first round as well. So this

(20:14):
Ravens passing attack is really going to look very different
in twenty twenty three than it did in twenty twenty
two and previously.

Speaker 2 (20:20):
Yeah, it's a good group.

Speaker 3 (20:21):
So you have Bateman, Ode Beckham Junior, Dave Flowers, Devin Duvernet,
Nelson Agalore, a really good tight.

Speaker 2 (20:27):
End room with Andrews of course leading the way.

Speaker 3 (20:29):
But then Isaiah likely you're tight end h back sort
of type, Charlie Kohlar. It's a really really good group.
So you know, we'll see all things go to start
the season. Of course, you know, just like the Chargers
in Kellen Moore got to iron some things out, you
got to learn the offense, gotta work together, that sort
of thing. But it's a really really good group and
I really do like that. You know, I don't know
if it's too late for the Ravens, but they certainly.

(20:51):
I love the way that they've you know, gather on
their quarterback as they should have. The money's there in theory,
the quarter the coordinator, excuse me, is there, and that
the receiving talent is there.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
So a lot of pressure, I guess, no excuses because
you have basically everything that you would want. So yeah,
I think the Raymonds are that sneaky, very dangerous team.

Speaker 1 (21:13):
Yeah, one hundred percent. And it's gonna be interesting to
see what happens with their rushing game because I mean,
we've seen Lamar rush for over one thousand yards previously.
Is that something that goes away? Now that they have
paid him a bunch of money guaranteed a bunch of
long term money as well. You have more passing options
as well, like we talked about. So the Raymonds are

(21:34):
an interesting team. I think they're gonna look very different
than what we are used to seeing with Greg Roman.
Because Greg Roman's thing is like I'm gonna build a
rushing offense. First, I need me a mobile quarterback. I
need a great running back or two, and we're just
gonna run the piss out of the ball. Essentially. That's
not Todd Munkins Forte if you will. I mean, like

(21:56):
I mentioned his experiences with Jamis Winston and Ryan where like,
we're gonna throw fifty times a game, and we're gonna
let our guys air it out. A little bit different
down in Georgia. But I do think whence when the
Ravens come to town with the charters, they'll they'll look
very different.

Speaker 2 (22:14):
I think so.

Speaker 3 (22:14):
But then if the if the Ravens come to down
they should just be running the football. So maybe they
will just call it Greg Roman for a game and
rush it fifty times.

Speaker 1 (22:23):
That's certainly possible, certainly possible, all right. So we wanted
to frame our initial discussion here in this way because
there's been you know, some thought that like the Chargers
haven't done enough to keep up with these teams in
the off season. But if you really kind of take
a step back and look at the AFC moves as
a whole, the Chargers Landy Kellen Moore I think is

(22:44):
right up there with biggest moves of the offseason. Certainly
one of the best non head coach play callers in
the NFL from what we've seen over the past few
years with the Dallas Cowboys. So, Tyler, does this move
belong in the same vein we have replaced it with
like the you know, like the Browns going in all
in on the defensive line for example, that's one thing

(23:06):
we mentioned, or you know, the Chiefs going after Juwan Taylor.
How do you feel like we can justify Kellen Moore
Kellen Moore's edition being in this space too.

Speaker 3 (23:17):
I would say it's the third biggest move of the
AFC and the whole offseason.

Speaker 2 (23:20):
I think, you know, Rogers going to the Jets is huge.

Speaker 3 (23:23):
Payton to the Broncos is huge, sure, but after that,
I really think Kellen Moore to the Chargers is that
third biggest move. It's it's huge for the Chargers, I think,
because I mean, the Chargers asked the question, what if
we got a coordinator who's.

Speaker 2 (23:35):
Had a top five at worst top.

Speaker 3 (23:37):
Ten offense every single year. What if we took that
coordinator compaired him with the quarterback who's.

Speaker 2 (23:43):
An MVP candidate, And so.

Speaker 3 (23:46):
There's really nothing to look at that and even just
looking at the numbers when we first started diving into
this when they hired him, EPA looks great. DVOA looks great.
Red zone offense was the best in the league last year.
They're a balanced team, they spread their formations out more.
Everything's so great about this That does that mean the
Chargers are Super Bowl contenders because of the one thing?

Speaker 2 (24:07):
Not necessarily it does have to work.

Speaker 3 (24:10):
But this move is potentially huge because you know, we'll
see what happens with the defense for the Chargers. There's
a lot of potential there, but we don't quite know.
We know that Herbert can be an MVP quarterback. We
know that Kellen Moore can coordinate a really really good
offense at minimum. Pairing these two together, I mean, this
is how the Charges make the postseason. This is how
the Chargers become Super Bowl contenders. Is how they win

(24:31):
the Super Bowl? Like, this is a huge move. I know,
I'm a Chargers fans, of course I'm gonna feel like
it's a big move, but right, like the.

Speaker 2 (24:38):
Switch from running an offense that.

Speaker 3 (24:41):
Probably didn't work for the players that you had and
the quarterback that you had that didn't function so well
situationally that wasn't great in rushing last year. Taking that
and going to someone who is going to really get
this offense to reflect what it should be, what it
could be, that's huge, I mean, and that's coaching.

Speaker 1 (24:58):
That's teaching.

Speaker 2 (24:59):
You want the most.

Speaker 3 (25:00):
Out of your players, your students, whatever as you can.
You want to set them in the best positions to succeed.
And I think that the Charges were able to do
that a bit in twenty twenty one and in twenty
twenty as well. Twenty twenty two is a whole mess,
but it really feels like not everything's going away right
because Kellen Moore came out and said, listen, there are
things that they did well that we're going to continue doing.

(25:22):
I think some things in the short game that Justin
Herbert has learned how to do is really really big.
I think the way they use certain players, I'm sure
they'll use them kind of similarly in cerfent situations, but
just the extra notch the Chargers can jump up because
of their offense, because of Kellen Moore, I think it
makes it the third biggest move of the AFC.

Speaker 1 (25:40):
Yeah, I tend to agree, and I think you can
look at offensive coordinators or play callers in general in
a similar vein as how you look at quarterbacks, in
the sense of there are certain coordinators who or play
callers that you win because of that. Like, regardless of
who what kind of players you have in that system,
that coordinator play caller is going to truly elevate every

(26:03):
player in that system. We've seen that with Kyle Shanahan,
regardless of who he has at quarterback. I mean, he
made the Cleveland Browns offense look functional for a year.
You know he was down in Houston. I mean, he
made Matt Ryan an MVP candidate and an MVP winner.
You know, we've seen him time and time again in
San Francisco. Same thing with Andy Reid, whether it was
like Kevin Cobb for a year or Jeff Garcia. You know,

(26:25):
like certain offensive play callers just know how to have
a functional unit, regardless of who is playing quarterback and
vice versa. There are play callers who need that talent
in order to be functional, and then if you lose
that talent, the bottom kind of falls out, and I
think the charters previously had the latter with Joe Lombardy

(26:46):
not to like make this a Joel Lombardi hate thing.
That's not the goal here. But Kellen Moore, Like, if
you really look objectively at who the Cowboys have had
on offense over the last few years, I think he
is a coordinator that can truly elevate players in his system.
And I'm not just talking about Dak Like we saw
them maintain a top fifteen offense with Cooper Rush. Yep,

(27:07):
it wasn't as great with Andy Dalton. Like objectively, I
don't know like what happened there, but you know, you
look at the offensive line injuries, you look at the
lack of receiving talent. I mean last year, like really
it was Ceedee Lamb and Dalton Schultzen. It wasn't much else,
and they still had a top ten passing offense. And
so you look at what Kellen Moore can do in
terms of elevating an offense, and you pair him with

(27:30):
a quarterback who is capable of elevating an offense, and
I think this charged offense is going to be legitimately
a top five unit. And that's even before you talk
about like adding Quentin Johnson getting a healthier offense around
Justin Herbert. So I agree I think this Kellen Moore
pairing like it's kind of simmer down. There hasn't been
a ton of national attention on it recently, but I

(27:52):
think it is one of the moves that will help
define the twenty twenty three season in the AFC. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (27:57):
Absolutely, And you've already started to see some of the
influences of this. I would not have thought they'd go
get another receiver in the first round and go three
wide receiver sets, and then the way that they're probably
going to have six wide receivers on this roster ins
that of five or really like four and a half
or even four, you know, the previous years with just
the pure returner types. It just seems like that Kellen

(28:17):
Moore's coming in to change things in a way that
it's just a little bit different than it was before,
just in terms of roster management. And so if that's
kind of how things are shaping up, it's going to
be a big change on the field.

Speaker 1 (28:28):
Yeah, I one hundred percent agree. And we've seen some
great breakdowns from Brett Coleman on this channel of the
x's and o's and things like that. But just philosophically,
I think the Chargers are really going to be, you know,
in a much better standing point with Kellen Moore. And
I think, like we've talked about before, like adaptability is
something that Kellen Moore is really going to bring to

(28:50):
this team. And that's something that I had really probably
since Ken was a Hunt was around, you know, back
in twenty eighteen with that team. So Chargs fans have
kind of settle down on the Kellen More hype, but
I think hopefully after this show they can kind of
you know, get back into this into the swing of
things in that regard. Absolutely all right, So for the

(29:12):
second part of our show, we're going to share our
screen here. We're gonna bring up the handy downy tear maker,
and we're gonna sort some of these teams out, some
of these moves and see how these teams really stack up.
We're not gonna spend a ton of time talking about
the teams that we really like know a lot about
in terms of like being bad or being good. So

(29:34):
we have this tearmaker sorted out here. Again, this is
AFC only, so we're gonna sort it into Super Bowl
contender that's the top tier. Obviously, teams that were pretty
confident are playoff teams, teams that are a fringe playoff team,
teams that are kind of a middle of the pack team,
and then Tyler has it in the back. Hello, Caleb Williams.

(29:54):
You know teams who we think are going to be
pretty bad. Although some of the teams that are bad
are just drafted the quarterback. We'll see how that one goes. Tyler,
let's talk about the teams quickly that we're like very
confident in their placement. I think we can all pretty
confidently say the Chiefs are the super Bowl contender. They're
the champs. They've won the AFC West eight years in

(30:15):
a row. Like, they have the best quarterback, the best coach,
So it has been so very comfortably. Chiefs are a
super Bowl contender. Who else do you think is a
super Bowl contener in the AFC?

Speaker 3 (30:28):
Yeah, the one that consistently seems to outperform themselves in
the playoffs, and that's the Bengals. So I think of
the AFC, I think the Chiefs and the Bengals are
one and two. I think the Bills kind of like
last year, you could make the case that they're maybe
more talented or of the better quarterback or whatever, But
the Bengals just been hanging in there and.

Speaker 2 (30:46):
The Bills for whatever reason.

Speaker 3 (30:48):
Granted it wasn't like Josh Allen's fault they lost to
the Chiefs. That was just a shootout that somebody had
to lose the two years ago. But I think these
two are are the class of the AFC right now.

Speaker 1 (30:59):
Yeah, in terms of sure things, one hundred percent, I
agree there you mentioned next seeding expectations. I think the
Bills for whatever reason, have just not been able to
get over that hump. You know, trading for or signing
von Miller rather was supposed to be that move, and
then Vaughn ultimately got injured, so maybe that changes. You know,
they obviously drafted my guy, Dalton Kinkay this year, but

(31:22):
until they really proved, I think we kind of have
to cool down a little bit on the Bills hype. Okay,
so you have them that playoff team, I would have
them at for sure playoff team. Yeah, I would still
pick them to win their division, but in terms of
like they're one hundred percent of Super Bowl contender, I
think we have to My personal opinion is that we
should cool down a little bit on that hype.

Speaker 3 (31:44):
Okay, yeah, I agree. I thought I was going to
be the only one saying that. So, yeah, I agree,
there very talented team here, but like Super the Chargers,
ish you got to prove it.

Speaker 1 (31:54):
Yeah, there's not. There's like no holes on that team.
Like their offensive line is good, they have good running back,
they have obviously Josh Allen. Their receiver room is good.
I think they're tight end room now with with Kincaid
and Dawson Knox is good. Defensive line is you know,
runs ten deep. The linebackers are solid. I just like
they just kind of have to like do it for
me first. All right, let's for sure bad teams. I

(32:17):
think we can definitely pencil in the Colts and the
Texans there. Personally, some people think the Colts can be
pretty maybe a middle of the pack team, but I
think they're gonna be bad, and I think the Texans
are gonna be bad as well.

Speaker 3 (32:28):
Yeah, it's so tough because the strength of schedule. I
think for all four of the AFC South teams is
like five best because they play each other. And so
I think that, you know, there's a team that can
maybe like like if I had to pick it, it would
be the Colts to kind of jump to middling team
hopefully believe in like Shane Styke and Richardson and stuff
like that, they do have a good nucleus of talent,

(32:50):
but they're also like, it's so tough to say because
it was so such a dysfunctional franchise last year with
the hiring of Jeff Saturday. You know, we saw the
Charges play them and you know, Austin Eckle even laughed
at the idea that they were going to continue with
the quarterback the next week because of how bad it
like a decision that was really bad. Then Yeah, right,
so you know, we'll certainly see. But I think that's fair.

Speaker 2 (33:16):
It's the halo.

Speaker 3 (33:16):
Hello, Caleb Williams. Slot They're not going to go get
Caleb Williams, I don't think.

Speaker 2 (33:21):
But yeah, they're they're they're. If I had to pick
two teams to be the bond of be these.

Speaker 1 (33:25):
Two that that specific phrasing is probably a little bit
more applicable to the NFC teams, But I think the
principals is is fair. I think I could understand an
argument for the Titans to be in that conversation. But
Mike Rabel's such a good head coach. They still have
Tarrick Henry and they still have Tannel. I would probably

(33:45):
make them a for sure middling team. Like I think
they'll probably end up like a seven and ten kind
of thing. What do you what do you make of them? Yeah?
I would agree.

Speaker 3 (33:52):
It's it's sort of Mike Tomlin with the Steelers. I
think the Steelers are better this year, but the way
that they just consistent can assistancy for that team. I mean,
that Titans team was pretty down and out and they
really battled with the Chargers till the very end at
home or at the Chargers.

Speaker 2 (34:07):
Home and so far. So yeah, I'll say middling.

Speaker 3 (34:10):
It wouldn't surprise me if suddenly we see them winning
games and oh my gosh, look at that. They're you know,
ten and seven, nine and eight or something. But I
think middling team is fair.

Speaker 1 (34:21):
All right. Anybody else that you think is definitely a
middling team or definitely a bad team.

Speaker 2 (34:27):
Ooh.

Speaker 3 (34:29):
I think the Raiders are a middling team, which my
dad's not gonna look like. But I'm gonna add them
there because I don't really know what the quarterback move
does for them.

Speaker 2 (34:40):
I don't know if that makes them better or worse.
They certainly think it's gonna.

Speaker 3 (34:43):
Make them better, but I don't. I just don't really.
There's too Like we talked about on our recent show,
there's gonna be potentially five of their draft picks that
could start by Week one, two or three because they
have so many holes on the roster, and so that's
great for a rookie class, but it's just not the
greatest team. Uncertain about the coach, and I think when

(35:05):
it comes to record, they are going to be the
third or fourth team in the AFC West, So I
think they're gonna kind of hang around middling team and
the Broncos. I barely feel more confident about them. To
be honest, I'd be fine putting them in middling or fringe.

Speaker 1 (35:23):
Yeah, we'll get to them in a second, But I
think the Raiders like they have too much talent right
now to be a bad team outright. In my opinion,
if they had gone out and drafted a one of
these rookie quarterbacks, I think that maybe changes things. But
Jimmy g is solid enough where I think that's not
going to take their offense. And then you're talking about

(35:43):
Devontae Adams, You're talking about Hunter Renfro, Colton Miller, Jacobe Myers,
like Josh Jacobs, Like, that's a pretty good to potentially
very good, you know, supporting cast defensively, I think their
defenses is a big time working progress. But you still
have Max cross Be, you still have Chandler Jones, Like.
They have some pieces that I think will keep them

(36:04):
from totally bottoming out as long as they stay decently healthy.

Speaker 3 (36:09):
Yeah, I think they'll like they're not beating the Chiefs
this year. My dad thinks the Chargers gonna beat them twice.

Speaker 2 (36:15):
We'll see the Broncos.

Speaker 3 (36:17):
They've somehow maintained a great record against the Broncos over
the last few years. But yeah, I just think they're
gonna win some games that maybe they shouldn't, but then
they're gonna lose a lot of games that they should.

Speaker 2 (36:27):
Middling team, Yeah, I think that's fair.

Speaker 1 (36:31):
All right, let's sort through some of these other teams here, Tyler,
who do you want to start with in terms of
this bottomer because I think this is the meat of
the AFC, if you will, there's a lot of teams,
a lot of you know, overcrowded fighting for playoff spots here.
Who do you want to start with next.

Speaker 2 (36:48):
Yeah, there really is.

Speaker 3 (36:49):
I was trying to run through this earlier today, and
there's so many good teams in the AFC, it's really frightening.

Speaker 2 (36:56):
I'll start with the Steelers, and I.

Speaker 3 (36:59):
Think that because they have two other teams in their
division that are I think going to be better than
they are, that that makes them a fringe playoff team.

Speaker 1 (37:08):
But that's kind of what they are.

Speaker 3 (37:09):
I mean, that's that's the Mike Tomlin Steelers is they're
this fringe playoff team. And think of the draft that
they just had with Joey Porter, Junior, Broderick Jones, Darneld Washington,
Keanu Benton, Corey Trice, Like they had one heck of
a draft, arguably the best draft onto a very competitive
team with a very good football coach. So, you know,

(37:31):
I think guys like their teams, like the Ravens, like
the Bengals, like we talked about, they're probably going to
be better, and I would assume that they would be.

Speaker 2 (37:38):
It really comes down to the quarterback, right.

Speaker 3 (37:40):
You put Lamar Jackson on the Steelers, very different conversation,
but Joe Burn the Steelers, very different conversation. But Kenny Pickett,
you know, wasn't awful for them. There's a lot of
positives there, but I think just this, the floor of
this team is just so high with Mike Tomlin that
they have to be a fringe playoff team, especially after
the draft they just had.

Speaker 1 (38:00):
Yeah, I mean I thought that last year like was
gonna be the year where they you know, ruined their
streak of never having a losing season. Yeah, they ended
up winning nine games, So I mean Mike Tomlin is like,
like you mentioned the definition of a fringe playoff team
at this point in time, I do think that there's
a chance they could make the playoffs for sure. You know,

(38:21):
the AFC is stacked, right, but you know, Mike Tomlin
has just provides such stability with that team that, like,
I probably would pick them to be that team who
missed the playoffs last year that will make it into
the next year over teams who have, you know, more
uncertainty like some of the ones there at the bottom.

Speaker 2 (38:38):
Absolutely, where do you want to go next?

Speaker 1 (38:40):
Uh? Yeah, let's I'm gonna put the Ravens in the
playoff team you mentioned, then we'll kind of go AFC
North year.

Speaker 2 (38:46):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (38:47):
You know, Lamar Jackson has like an eighty percent winning
percentage as a starter since he's been in the NFL.
So it's we just know what we're gonna get with
this Ravens team under John Harbaugh. I think the defense
is gonna be better. I think we'll see a big
step from Kyle Hamilton. I mean, Tyler Linnerbaum, their starting center,
should take a step forward. And then I just believe
in like what they've done, like I mentioned in the

(39:08):
passing attack with Todd Monkain with Odell who I don't
think is I don't think he's worth of the worthy
of the contract they gave him, but I think he'll
be Like I mean, we're talking about a team that
was like Devin Duvernet was their wide receiver to down
a playoff stretch last year, like he's he's going to
elevate the floor. And then you have to say Flowers
as well. So I just really believe in in their

(39:29):
passing attack as well as you're talking about JK. Dobbins
on on on the ground. So I'm a believer of
the Ravens, maybe a little bit too much, but I
think we can pencil them in as a for sure
playoff team.

Speaker 3 (39:41):
Yeah, No, I think that's completely fair for them because
it's a good football team and and sort of like
Tomlin harbod, this team's gonna be pretty consistent as well,
so Lamar, all things are good, no distractions at this point.
You know, the hell should be their good offense. So
you know, I think the kind of there's a couple
of teams to talk about in the playoff team tier

(40:02):
that are really jocking for like who's that third team?

Speaker 2 (40:05):
I think the Rains are a really good strong case.

Speaker 1 (40:08):
Yeah, I would say next. I don't think they're in
the same kind of tier in terms of like how
much I trust them, But the Jags are alone. There's
no way that the Jaguars are not a playoff team.
So I think we kind of just have to put
them in it because like these other teams, they're all
gonna be bad, like the Tennessee Titans, Like maybe they
win seven eight games, but maybe the Colts wins seven

(40:29):
eight games. But the Jaguars are gonna kakuwalk to a
playoff spot. Man.

Speaker 3 (40:33):
Yeah, they're They're at minimum a well coached team. It
seems like Tremor Warre's taking that step forward. If Calvin
really hits this is a team that could go pretty
far in the playoff playoffs.

Speaker 1 (40:44):
Yeah, I mean the Calvin Ridley move was a move
that we thought about talking about in terms of the
biggest moves of the offseason, even though it happened like
during the season, you know, they they had three pass
catchers go over eight hundred yards or something like that,
and it was like guys that people were not super
high on, Like Calvin Ridley is a bona fide wide
receiver one, So I think that's gonna pay some dividends

(41:05):
for them. All right, Tyler, who do you want to
go to next?

Speaker 2 (41:09):
Let's go to the Miami Dolphins.

Speaker 3 (41:11):
So I think we should try to get seven teams,
like two Super Bowl contenders, and then five in the
playoff team tier because there's gonna be seven playoff teams.
I think the Dolphins fit there as a playoff team.
I again don't know about the quarterback situation, but this
kind of comes down to like the forty nine Ers
Shanahan thing, where listen, the system is the system, and

(41:32):
the system is good and the system works and has worked.
Really comes down to health obviously, But I think I
would consider them fringe if not for guys like Fangio
and Ramsey.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
That just changes things for me.

Speaker 3 (41:44):
If you can crank out somehow a top twelve defense
maintain that same offensive efficiency, I think you're considered a
playoff team.

Speaker 1 (41:53):
I don't know how them. I don't know if what
they did on offense is really sustainable because so reliant
on explosive plays and big time touchdowns from Tyreek Hill
and Jayson Model in particular. Like the NFL posted a
clip of Tyreek Hill and his touchdowns last year and
like three of them were like the defender fell down,
like against Michael Davis, the fumble thing, you know, Like,

(42:18):
I just don't know how sustainable the Miami Dolphins offense is.
And they don't really have like a counter punch like
that was the thing with their offense last year, is
like when push came to shove and you couldn't get
those explosive plays, like what is your alternative? And they
they lean more into the explosive plays. They drafted Devon
h Chin, who's another speedy guy, and like, ye, that's

(42:39):
their thing. But I'm a little skeptical of the Dolphins
this year, at least on offense. Like we just talked
about the defense, and I think defense is gonna be better.
But then you also add in the fact that the
AFC East is there's not a bad team in the
AFC East. Man Like, it's gonna be difficult for these
teams to really kind of elevate themselves. So I personally
would put the Dolphins into fringe off team.

Speaker 3 (43:00):
Is there an AFC team you put over them?

Speaker 1 (43:05):
Yeah, I think it is the Jets. Unfortunately. I just
I think Aaron Rodgers is gonna come out for for souls,
as Scotland Maddock.

Speaker 3 (43:14):
Would say, yeah, the notable, great legend Scott Scott Matlin.

Speaker 2 (43:21):
I don't mind that. I don't mind that fringe playoff team. Again,
on record, I think playoff team.

Speaker 3 (43:25):
But I understand why the Jets would be considered a
playoff team because we just talked about that's a that's
a huge move for them, and you know, significantly more
even a new situation about Rogers than.

Speaker 1 (43:34):
You do to a Yeah, and I think there's just
gonna be better synergy there. I mean, Nathanie Hackett is
is he failed in Denver pretty miserably, but you know
he's Aaron's guy, So I think there's gonna be some
good synergy there. How much are you buying the Sean
payn hype ten Let's let's go there next.

Speaker 2 (43:53):
I will go for.

Speaker 3 (43:57):
Jeez luise, Okay, we got we left ourselves with the
teams other than the Chargers that I feel like are
the most difficult to figure out for various reasons.

Speaker 2 (44:06):
I think the floor is going to be higher.

Speaker 3 (44:08):
But I either have them at fringe or middling team.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
I don't know if I can consider I don't. I
don't consider them a playoff team.

Speaker 3 (44:17):
Personally, They're not a bad team. I just feel like
it's the team that I have to see it. So
if I had to guess, because their defense is already
so good, I'd say fringe playoff team.

Speaker 2 (44:31):
But things have to work, and like we talked about earlier,
I don't know if they will.

Speaker 1 (44:36):
Yeah, I think that's fair, and that's probably where I
would put them as well. I don't like Sean Payton
is going to be good for the Broncos. I just
I still don't think they have enough to like have
a super high ceiling with Russell Wilson at quarterback in
the way that he's played, so I think that's fair.
The Patriots, I think also like the Steelers we kind
of just have to put them as a fringe playoff team.

(44:57):
I think that defense is so good to the point where,
like we know that they're gonna be a top ten defense.
And you know, Bill O'Brien, I don't think is a
great play caller, but he's certainly better than Matt Patricia.
So you know, I think the Patriots, until proven otherwise,
are at least a fringe playoff team.

Speaker 2 (45:14):
Yeah, that's fair.

Speaker 3 (45:15):
And man, they got Gonzales. Like I almost considered Gonzalez
one of the biggest moves of the AFC because if
you could have and a Sauce Gardner kind of effect
for that defense, that's huge for this defense in Bill Belichick.
So but a fringe playoff team again kind of in
everybody in this year, it's all about the quarterback question marks, right,

(45:36):
we don't really know about the quarterbacks.

Speaker 2 (45:38):
So not a bonafied playoff team.

Speaker 1 (45:41):
Yeah, And to your point, I mean we've seen Bill
Belichick turn undrafted free agents into elite corners. Man, Like,
what's he gonna do with Gonzalez? I cannot wait to
see ye? All right, Browns, I personally would put the
Browns in middling team just because what we saw from
Deshaun Watson last year was so bad that it wasn't
just like it wasn't like, oh, like there's some clear

(46:03):
rest like he was like one of the worst quarterbacks
in the league last year. So that's where I would
put them personally. I tweeted out the question of like,
which of the non playoff teams would you pick to
make the playoffs, and a lot of people said the Browns,
And I understand why. They've got a very talented roster.
They added Elijah Moore in the offseason, who we both
really liked in the draft. Yeah, but until we see

(46:24):
otherwise from Deshaun Watson, I just I cannot trust him because,
like Jacoby Brissette was a clearly superior quarterback in Cleveland
last year. So I just I'm hesitant on the Browns
to say the least.

Speaker 3 (46:36):
Yeah, I feel like there's just so much talent that
I would clean fringe playoff team.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
But then Deshaun Watson stuff.

Speaker 3 (46:44):
Man, there was a good but three weeks to start
the season where it was like one touchdown maybe, Yeah,
you could bear like the defense is finally playing Okay,
they couldn't get anything going, So there's definitely a scare there,
but I think the trade for Smith, the trade for
Elijah Moore, I think that does help things. They have
so much talent on defense. I just the coordinator has
never really put it together. So I'm fine with them

(47:06):
at middling team. I could see them being a fringe
playoff team. But they're also in the division with the Bengals,
the Ravens, the Steelers, who I think are better than
they are or are more consistent than they are, So
I think middling team is fair.

Speaker 1 (47:18):
Yeah, all right, Tyler, we'll spend our last few minutes
here talking about the Chargers. Where are you placing them
as of May twenty first, twenty.

Speaker 3 (47:27):
Twenty three, Well, thanks for making me go first, I'm
going to place the Chargers as a playoff team. I
think they are easily a playoff team. I think anything
less than that it was certainly a failure. But I
believe in the Chargers team to be a playoff team.
The question just comes down and see whether I believe
they're a super Bowl contender or not. I can run

(47:48):
through enough permutations where I say you do this, this happens,
and this happens. Yeah, super Bowl contenders. The Chargers could
go out and beat the Chiefs. They couldn't go out
and beat the Bengals. They've done that, right, But it
comes down to proving yourself at this point. So if
the Chargers had won a game in the playoffs last year,
gone a little bit further and shown over the last

(48:09):
two years, three years or whatever with Herbert that they're
consistently a good team, a playoff team, a prepared team,
and a team that can win big games in big
moments in the postseason, then yeah, super Bowl contender because
this is a really, really, really talented team that I
mean they drafted a wide receiver three for their offense
because they're really stacked overall, and that wide receiver three

(48:30):
is gonna be really solid for them. It's just about
proving yourself. And I think this group that playoff team group,
and I think the Chargers are kind of with the Bills,
where this is a really freaking talented team and if
they have the MVP on their team and they're a
top three team in the league and they win the
one seed and they make it far in the playoffs,
totally makes sense. But you just got to prove it.

(48:51):
And I think that the Chiefs are the class of
the AFC. I think the Chiefs win the division. So
I have the Chargers just below them as a playoff team.

Speaker 1 (49:00):
I think that's fair. And you know, I think the
Chargers certainly have the ceiling to get to that Super
Bowl contender. There's just like, there's no way for me
to look at the Chargers as if they stay relatively healthy.
It's a big geft for every single team, right, But
if the Chargers stay relatively healthy, they're going to be
better than they were last year. I Mean, we just
spend you know, ten minutes talking about Kellen Moore and

(49:21):
how he elevates the ceiling, how he's going to be
one of the moves that defines the offseason. So how
can you not have them as a playoff team, right?
I Mean, Justin Herbert is going to be healthy this year.
You know, the odds are that Keenan Allen, Mike Williams
are not going to miss as many games as they
did last year. Joey Bosa the same kind of thing.
So this this team has such a high ceiling because
of the quarterback, because of the skilled players around him,

(49:43):
because of the talent on defense, and I think, like,
like it's hard for me to envision a scenario where
they don't make the playoffs. I know it's may I
know that's it's on paper, everything like that, But I'm
just I'm such a believer in what Kellen Moore can
bring to this table. Year. At this time, we were
talking about Justin Herbert as like our pick for MVP, right,

(50:04):
because we were such a big believer in what leap
he could have in year two in that system. It's
a better system around him. This year. He's not gonna
have broken ribs, He's not gonna have a torn labram
like Justin Herbert, is gonna be healthier, and I think
he's gonna put up huge numbers for this team. So
the schedule is more difficult. I think the AFC is better,

(50:27):
but I think the Chargers are going to be better.
I think they're gonna be more explosive. I think they're
gonna be more efficient on offense. I think they're gonna
have better talent on defense. And so it's just it's
hard for me to put them in another spot. And again,
we're on the Chargers channel, we're Chargers fans. Of course
we're gonna say this kind of thing. Sure, but it's
if you look objectively at this team, they have too
much talent for me not to put them as a

(50:49):
clear cut playoff team.

Speaker 3 (50:50):
Yeah, easy decision for me. It really comes down to it.
And we'll get into this on another show where they
actually rank among these teams. So we have them in
a tier with five other teams. But are they more
three or are they more seventh? That's another conversation.

Speaker 1 (51:03):
Yeah, you mentioned h that was a great point too,
But you mentioned like having to prove it. How much
time are you giving the Chargers before you buy into
the hype again? Like is this something like mid season?
Is this like I gotta wait until the playoffs? What's
your timeline in terms of like, Okay, at this point,
I could see myself buying them as a as a

(51:23):
super Bowl contender.

Speaker 3 (51:25):
It's gonna be weird, But there's there's a point in
Week one where if they win that game, which seems
really early, but you're playing a team with a lot
on the line, a very you know, solid team. I
consider them a playoff team, you consider them a fringe
playoff team. That's one point where things have to start.
You win that game, I think my outlook for the
season changes, But In terms of buying them as a

(51:48):
legit contender and getting back into that hype, you need
to win.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
A playoff game. You win the playoff game.

Speaker 3 (51:53):
Almos dropped my tee. You win that first playoff game,
and then I can start believing in it. And frankly,
I think that overall with the Chargers, it's going to
take well, either a super Bowl win this year for
me to believe in as contenders or consistent showing up
in the postseason at least in the divisional round every
single year, because that's what they should be doing. This

(52:14):
is a really talented team with a really talented quarterback.
So in terms of buying what their outlook for most
of the year, you know, yeah, win Week one and
I will like, hey, that's great. This is a really
talented team, a good offense. You just faced you just
checked a ton of boxes. That probably means that Kellen
Moore had a really solid opening and showing Herbert looks healthy.

Speaker 1 (52:34):
So I feel good about the rest of the season.

Speaker 3 (52:36):
But in terms of buying the hype, got to win
a playoff game, like it's going it's going to have
to take a playoff win for me to believe in them.

Speaker 2 (52:42):
And then they just have two more to win or
one more to win or whatever to get to the
super Bowl.

Speaker 1 (52:48):
Yeah, I totally get that. In terms of the Week one,
that's definitely gonna set the tone for the season. I
think that's a very important game. I think by the
time that we see the Chargers against the Ravens and
the Jets, I think we'll know about it the team
for this upcoming season. I think we'll know really how
confident to feel about this team making a playoff front

(53:08):
the end of the schedule is very difficult. But if
they are sitting or if they leave the Meadowlands, you know,
on Monday Night football and they are what's that Week nine?
Are they six and two? Are they seven and one,
or are they kind of four and four, five and
three kind of situation. So we'll know by the Jets game,
like how confident we should be in this team heading

(53:31):
down the home stretch. And I think we'll be pretty
confident at that point. But again, like you said, I
totally understand you want to see them in the playoffs.
Kind of a tone for that loss against the Jaguars.
How fun would it be if they got to repeat that?
Man got to really just go back to Jacksonville and
come out on top next time. That'd be a lot
of fun.

Speaker 3 (53:49):
No, you're gonna send me it's an early heart attack,
so never say that again.

Speaker 2 (53:55):
It's on the show.

Speaker 1 (53:57):
Sorry, sorry, all right, that is going to do it
for us today. So hopefully you guys appreciated the content
and the conversations there. I always like to kind of
take stock of where the team is at after everything
the dust has settled, before training camp starts and everything
like that. So hope you guys enjoyed it. Tyler, any
final thoughts before we head out. Nope, thanks for having

(54:19):
us all yep. Appreciate the Chargers as always for having
us on here. Appreciate Greg for producing today as always,
make sure and subscribe to the Charters channel, subscribe to
our channel as well. We appreciate all you guys over there.
That's going to do it for us. We'll see you
next time.

Speaker 2 (54:36):
Hold up,