January 20, 2025 • 29 mins
Summary:
Kate Nash joins Jim Burgoon on "Grace in the Grind" to discuss the transformative journey from the corporate world to entrepreneurship, highlighting the emotional challenges that often accompany such a shift. With over 18 years of experience as an instructional designer, Kate emphasizes the importance of authenticity and vulnerability in building a successful business. She candidly shares her struggles with childhood trauma and self-esteem, revealing how these experiences have shaped her approach to creating impactful online courses. The conversation dives into the nuances of course creation, stressing that understanding the problems faced by clients is crucial to delivering high-value content. Kate's insights encourage listeners to embrace their unique stories and challenges as they navigate their own paths in the entrepreneurial landscape.
Show Notes:
Navigating the corporate landscape can be a challenging journey, especially when it comes to personal growth and professional identity. Kate Nash, a seasoned instructional designer and course creator, shares her unique experiences in the corporate world, particularly her time at Radio Shack. With over 18 years in corporate training, she discusses the rewards and pitfalls of working in a male-dominated environment, emphasizing the struggle against hierarchical posturing and the importance of genuine contributions over mere visibility in meetings. Kate highlights how the corporate culture often prioritizes who can present the best ideas rather than who has the best ideas, which can stifle innovation and authenticity. Her transition from the corporate world into entrepreneurship marked a significant shift in mindset; she reflects on the need to embrace vulnerability and authenticity in her new role while learning to navigate the complexities of running a business and marketing herself effectively. Kate's journey is a testament to the resilience required to let go of ingrained corporate behaviors and adapt to the entrepreneurial landscape, showcasing the importance of self-awareness and personal growth in achieving professional success.
Key Takeaways:
- Fall in Love with the Problem: Understand the root cause of challenges to create meaningful solutions.
- Transitioning from Corporate: Mindset shifts are critical for moving from a structured environment to entrepreneurship.
- Course Creation Tips: Balancing niche focus and effective scoping ensures audience relevance and course success.
- Emotional Healing: Addressing past trauma is essential for personal growth and confidence as a leader.
- Resilience in Business: Difficult days are finite; perseverance and faith help you endure and thrive.
Kate Nash
Kate Nash has been an instructional designer since 2002, where she created a variety of different training and leadership development programs with Fortune 500 companies for 18 years. In 2020, she left the corporate world to help online course creators deliver programs, courses, and workshops their clients and customers love.
Copyright 2025 Jim Burgoon
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to Grace and theGrind, the podcast where we dive
deep into the journeys ofheart centered and purpose driven
leaders and entrepreneurs.We're here to equip and encourage
you on your journey. So let'sget started and find the grace within
the grind. This is Grace inthe Grind. And now your host, Jim
(00:21):
Burgoon.
Welcome to Grace in the Grindwhere we're here to equip, to empower,
and to encourage you to do allthat that God has for you in this
life. And today, we're soexcited to have Kate Nash, a friend
on the show. Kate, welcome tothe show.
Thank you. I'm so delighted tobe here with you.
So why don't you take about 90seconds and let the audience know
who you are and what you do.
(00:43):
I'm Kate. Nice to meet youall. I am an instructional designer
for a lot of people who don'tknow what that means. It means I'm
the one responsible forcreating a lot of the training that
people go through when they dotheir jobs and stuff, which sometimes
can seem kind of boring. Anddon't, don't raise your fist at me.
I only create really goodtraining. But I did that for 18 years
and then I left the corporatespace and now I create digital online
(01:06):
courses. I've been a certifiedinstructional designer, or course
creator, if that's what yousay, since 2007.
And so. So you left thecorporate space, you started your
own, your own thing, right?
Yeah.
How was it, how was it likeworking in the corporate? Let's start
there. Let's start with thecorporate. And then I want to talk
about transition.
There are parts of corporatethat are like a dream. I remember
(01:26):
when I took my last job, I waslike, I can't believe they pay me
to do all this fun stuff. Igot to go into, see a variety of
different jobs that peoplewere doing and speak to experts and
figure out how to make thetraining. So it was, you know, the
most efficient, efficient,most effective. So the people. Of
course, I'm really allergic toboring stuff, so I wanted to make
(01:48):
it interesting. You'll have toask me about the drain cleaning video
here in a second. But Ireally, really loved the variety
of things that you could doworking in corporate environment.
And sometimes it just feelslike it's carte blanc, like whatever
you want to do, you can do it.In some cases, it can seem like there's
so many resources availableand so many experiences to do. So
(02:10):
I did a lot of differenttraining in a lot of different areas.
So I worked for a Publicsupermarket for the last 13 years
in the corporate space. Andthen for five years I worked for
my very beloved Radio Shack.Five years in the training department
and then 10 years in thestores before I was in training.
And I really loved working forRadio Shack too is also. It was just
(02:31):
like a dream to do all thosethings. Now I did not necessarily
like corporate politics andthat does exist and it is a thing
and it is part of the reason Ileft. But I did love the experience
and the variety of work I gotto do and the clients I got to work
with and the employees I gotto help. It was amazing.
Now I want to say first andforemost, I haven't heard the name
Radio Shack in a number in aminute. That's been a while since
(02:53):
man, that's cool. That's.
That is my life. That is mylife. I, I got hired there when I
was 19 and I worked thereuntil I was about 32. It was on and
off again. I did, you know,before college, after college and
all over the place. But Iloved working there.
So. So in the midst of all ofthis, right, you're. You're coming
up in the corporate world. Youknow, there's a lot of talk around
(03:15):
being, you know, male versusfemale dominated. And then. So what
were some of the challenges.
You faced in Radio Shack withit being male dominated or just,
just in.
Corporate world in generalwith, with that type of overtone
that's been talked about overthe years. So how. What were some
of the challenges you faced?
I think part of the, theprobably the biggest challenge, if
(03:35):
I was going to say this is it.And of course I'm much older now
and five years ago my. So issomething different. And in five
years I might say somethingdifferent yet. So I'm still growing
and evolving. But if I was topoint my finger and, and say this
is the, this is the problemand the breakdown with a lot of working
in corporate environments,it's that hierarchy. It's that positioning
(03:56):
or the feeling that you haveto be better than somebody else and
somebody else might be betteror the fear that somebody else might
be better than you. A lot ofposturing and it sometimes the way
that corporate invol way thatcorporate and corporate isn't alone.
The way that a lot oforganizations reward what they see
as desired behaviors is basedon what they observe in a person.
(04:20):
And a lot of thoseobservations, for instance, you're
in a meeting whose idea wins.It's not the best idea, it's the
best positioned idea. And soyou'll Find people who are very brilliant,
who aren't really good atmaybe posturing, and they'll get
out done by somebody who'sbrilliant at getting up in front
of people. I don't thinkthere's a way to say these are our
(04:43):
people. And instead ofmeasuring and I've done this and
I've hated it, but I've beenin meetings when I was a manager
where I was told I had to rankall the people and my associates,
who's the best and who's theworst. And I don't like looking at
people that way. I likesaying, this is Cheryl. I never had
a Cheryl working for me, souse that name on purpose. Here's
(05:04):
Cheryl. This is what makesCheryl great. These are the projects
she does really well with.Here's where she needs help. Instead
of saying, Cheryl is betterthan Betty and Betty is better than
Carl.
So, so, like, in thisenvironment, like, I find this fascinating.
How did you navigate theenvironment without losing yourself?
Well, I, I, well, I'm notthere anymore. And part of the reason
(05:26):
is I pushed back against a lotof those expectations. I decided
to run my team my own way. Butin that it wasn't a fit for the company.
It just wasn't a fit for theway they did business. And I can
see now, looking from theiraspect to me, you know, I wasn't
somebody who is innovative andcoming up with a cool solution. And
in doing something different,I was rogue. I was, I was deviant,
(05:49):
you know, deviant to the.Deviating from the expectation.
Yeah, so that's, that'sinteresting to be, to be labeled
the rogue or something justbecause you're doing your thing.
I mean, I'm sure you'reproducing results, but because you
weren't playing the game.Yeah, that's, that's so, so amazing
results.
But they didn't look at thoselike, they were just looking at their
culture and how I was. Theydidn't say I was a threat to their
(06:12):
culture. But that is, lookingback, I think that's what it was.
I was a threat to the culture.
Yeah. So. So you're navigatingall of this and then you decide the
transition. So what, first andforemost, what was the first, like,
nail in the coffin, per se?That was like, I'm. I'm gonna go
do my own thing.
This is okay. I told you therewas nothing off limits. But I don't
know how you zeroed in on theone thing I really, really am hesitant
(06:34):
to talk about. But let's justsay, and I want to Keep everything
kind of like this is. Other,other people are involved in it.
So I just want to keep it kindof. But let's just say it was made
very clear to me that I wouldnot find any progression in the company.
And so I felt like I cannotprove, you know, how people like
(06:55):
see what they expect to see.And so if they expect to see you
fail, they're not looking atall the successes that you had. I
can't promise. I startedthinking about myself. Like I don't
think I can be the person I amand move forward in trying. I love
experimenting and we talkedabout dabbling in AI. I'm not an
expert in it, but I loveexperimenting and trying new things.
(07:15):
I cannot guarantee that Iwon't make a mistake because I like
to experiment and try new things.
Right.
And they're looking for me tomake a mistake.
So, so, so, so we're, we'retransitioning out now. You know,
how did you, how did you likemanage corporate mindset into like
now you're an entrepreneur nowyou're trying to build your own business.
(07:35):
Like there's a mindset shiftin the two. Like they're not the
same. So how did you managemaking that shift? Like what were
some of the things you had to do?
It's a huge mindset shift. Iwas, I'm an expert in instructional
design. I'm an expert coursecreator. You give me any course to
do and I am your, you know,I'm your go to person. But I'm not
really good at running abusiness. You know, like I didn't
(07:57):
know like marketing. I didn'tknow what it meant to make CEO type
decisions. So that was a huge,huge gap. And for some reason I thought
there's all these coursesbeing done online. I'll just hang
up my shingle and people go,oh, our salvation is here. I can't
wait to work with Kate. Shecan make my course great, you know.
And that was, that was notthe, that was not how it happened.
(08:19):
Right.
Yeah.
So, so then what, what waslike what were the, what was the
process to help you make thattransition? Like walk us through
because there's a lot ofpeople on, on, on the listening who
maybe want to leave their nineto five, want to leave their, you
know, their, maybe they haveown a brick and mortar business or
in corporate and they'retrying to leave, but they're stuck
in that mindset. Like what aresome of the things that you can say?
(08:41):
Like this is what I had to doin order to make that Transition.
Yeah. With working incorporate, there's always this idea
of giving and there's never anexpectation that I'm going to ask
you for anything other thanthe stuff that I need to do the job.
Working for yourself, it'slike you cannot give without also
(09:01):
asking for payment. So thatwas like a really big mindset shift.
I'm going to, oh, sure, I cando this for you. It's going to cost
you $2,500 or whatever the,you know, the fee is going to be.
That was a huge mindset shift.It used to be like, whatever you
want to do, I'll do that andmore, I'll, I'll exceed your expectations.
This idea of over prom, underpromising and over delivering was
(09:24):
really, really big incorporate. But you can't do that
when you're working foryourself. You can't under promise
everybody's promising more andyou can't over deliver because it,
there's a cost to over delivery.
Right.
You know, I can't just go, oh,you know, client a, what's this?
But I can do even more becausethat even more is going to cost me
a lot of time. And I could beusing that for marketing or I could
(09:47):
be using that on anotherclient. So that was like a huge shift
for me. And it feels like Idon't want to leave my clients with
like a less than type thing.So that has been, you know, a struggle
and still an ongoing struggle.I still fortunately have never had
a client who hasn't been fullysatisfied with what I've done. You
know, so even with pullingback, I'm still, people are still
(10:08):
very satisfied. I am a veryhard worker and that is one of the
things I did learn forcorporate from corporate. But the
other, the biggest thing toois I thought, you know, I would just
hang out my shingle and thatwould work. And then my second iteration
of working for myself was Ihave to find the right strategy or
the magic word so people willbuy from me. And then it really took
the hard work of realizingwhat's really holding me back more
(10:31):
than anything is I don't wantto be authentic in front of people
or vulnerable in front ofpeople. There's so much self esteem
issues I have to work through.So it isn't some magic strategy or
magic words. It's really a lotof healing.
Yeah, that's, that's, thatalone is an incredibly vulnerable
statement. I don't want to beauthentic in people and I want to
(10:51):
honor that because that's,that's powerful to say that and having
to work through that. And thenwhen you said. You said, I still
struggle, one of the things Ithink I appreciate the most is when
people are able to openlyadmit, hey, listen, I'm gaining ground,
but I still got a ways to go.Like, so I just want to take a second
to honor that. That's. Wow.And so I want to go some lines of
(11:11):
questions in these things, butbefore I do, I want to take a pause
for a second because you hadmentioned the. The Dream Cleaner
video or something like that.The dream. And I want to go back
to that because I. I want todive into some of the feelings and
I want to dive into whatyou're doing now and how you learned
to over, you know, learn theskills. So first and foremost, let's
hit up the drain clean thingthat you mentioned.
(11:33):
This is a drain cleaner video.This was a. We had to do a quick
training because we changedthe drain cleaning procedures at
the last place I worked. Andthe old drain cleaning procedure
had to do with putting, like,what looked like a toilet bowl brush
underneath a plastic bag andspraying some sanitizer down the
drain and plunging it severaltimes to clean that drain really
(11:55):
well. And it was this wholeprocess that was very messy, you
know, very, very messy. Andthen they came up with this, what
seems like a magical projectwhere you just spray it for eight
seconds and you just let it belike, you have to clean out the.
The top of the drain, but youdon't have to do any of those plastic
bags or stuff. But we decidedto do the train, the drain cleaning
(12:16):
video and do it really fun.And it was this very short video
that was, I think it was likefive minutes. And it was an infomercial
for a product where this guywent over the top and he talked about
how amazing this, you know,set it and forget it. We just took
all the best of all theinfomercials, and it was so entertaining.
So people loved watching thisdrain cleaning video whether they
(12:37):
had to clean drains or not.And every time we took that video
down, we would get a requestto put that video back up. But it
was just using that as anopportunity to say, not all draining,
not all training has to beboring. It can be fun and interesting
and make people laugh andstill teach what needs to be taught
or make them cry, as the casemay be.
Yeah, I love that. Theemotional grab. So let's. Let's.
(12:58):
Thank you for sharing that.Because I wrote it down. I circled.
I was like, all right, now Iam interested and curious. So we're
Gonna do that. And let's goback to some of the things you know
about, you know, sharing andstruggles and stuff, because I find
this incredibly fascinatingbecause you're an incredibly talented
individual. Right. So withthat being said, how did you learn
(13:20):
some of the skills to, youknow, run your own business as opposed
to just running to anothercorporate. Like, how did you get
through that? Like, what wereyou, what was your process? What
were your, what were theskills that. Or how did you learn
those skills quickly, let'ssay it that way.
I did a couple of coachingprograms with a number of different
people and I learned from allover the place. As an instructional
designer, learning is kind oflike second nature to me. I know
(13:42):
how to do research, I know howto find information. That part wasn't
that hard to do. I mean, Iknow how to make decisions and do,
you know, cost benefitanalysis and Ben Franklin's and leadership
skills and that sort of thing.It really was about the emotional
healing that was the hardestpart. It was the recovery from a
lot of abuse in my childhoodand stuff like that that cropped
(14:05):
up whenever I had to go outand sell myself, whenever I had to
tell people why I'm the rightchoice that I.
So that brings up some reallyimportant lines of thinking here
because there's a lot ofpeople that still struggle with that.
The childhood trauma, theinsecurities, the inferiorities,
the. All of that. What was abreakthrough moment that helped you,
(14:25):
like really say, I can see, Ican do this, I can sell and be and
feel good about it. Like, whatwas a breakthrough moment for you?
There were a few of them. Onewas this idea that I. I'm embarrassed
to admit that I was in my 40swhen I realized, late 40s before
I realized that thoughts wereoption optional. Like you don't have
to believe the voices that arein your head. I didn't really even,
(14:48):
maybe even think about it. Ithought it was normal. That was one
of the breakthrough momentsfor me. Another one was this need
to be right. Like I thoughtthat being right was the. Was desirable,
you know, kind of like it. Youhad to be right about everything.
And I started thinking like,why is it so important to be right
all the time? Just askingmyself that question help me uncover
(15:11):
some of the reasons why I tieda lot of personal self esteem to
being right. If I was wrong,then I'm not worth of anything, so
I have to be right. Does thatkind of make sense?
It makes perfect sense. No, itdoesn't kind of. It makes perfect
sense because as somebody whois I. I love to say I'm a recovering
people pleaser, recoveringperfectionist because of my own trauma
(15:33):
growing up. And so a lot oftimes when you have people who are
in the entrepreneur space, wevery much get our. All of our validation
and our worth from externalthings. If the external thing doesn't
work, we don't work. If theexternal thing is crap, we're crap.
Like, we. We make thosejudgments in those parallels, but
(15:54):
they're not true because myworth doesn't depend on what I produce.
It's already in there. Sothat's a breakthrough that I had
over the last couple yearsmyself. So, no, you're right on.
You're right on. And I'm surethe listeners are loving this because
a lot of the listeners,particularly my audience, deal with
some levels of this.
Yeah.
You know, and so, so here's.Like, this brings up some real. I
(16:15):
love what you said. Thoughtsare optional. Like, okay, we can
just like, close everythingdown there. That's like, pow. Right?
Here's the question thatreally comes to things. So you're
dealing with your childhoodtrauma, you're dealing with the.
The mindsets of corporatetransitioning into, you know, your
own business. Have to havethis uphill battle of learning while
(16:35):
dealing with the nonsense,while dealing with the emotions.
How did you not quit?
I am not a quitter. I'm justnot. I have been through some really
difficult situations. I justsee it through to the end. I mean
that to be said, like, I sayI'm not a quitter, and I have been
through a divorce and I didquit my job. So there are times when
I'm like, clearly I need tostart seeking an exit strategy. But
(16:55):
like most situations, I justpower through or just wait through.
And I recognize that thedifficult days are numbered. There's
going to be. They're finite.It's. It's going to be like, I'm
gonna last. And also kind oflike, what am I always ask myself
too, if I'm tempted to justquit or give up or run, what am I
(17:15):
running from? And what do Iexpect to find, you know, on the
other side?
So, so in the midst of that,then. Then what were you. What would
you say would be a key or two?That how you built that internal.
What's the word I'm lookingfor? The internal resilience. Was
it just something you'vealways had or did some. Is that something
you've had to say, boom. Like,what were that?
(17:37):
I think that's a gift ofchildhood trauma. So it leaves you
with some childhood traumaleaves you with some wounds for sure,
and some scars and some. Somethings that make you question your
worth, but they're also kindof like. And this is maybe not even
the healthiest thing, but youthink, well, I'm not worth anything
anyway, so I'm just going tostick it out. So you end up sticking
out some situations that youprobably should leave. So. I have
(18:01):
learned to endure difficultsituations. Yay. Go me. I think it
just takes a lot of wisdom ofsaying, is it the right time to quit
or should I just keep going? Ican usually it from my experiences,
I find it usually pretty easyto continue going. I think I have
a harder time saying it's timeto exit the situation. If I had,
(18:22):
I would have probably exitedsome of the situations a lot sooner
than I did.
Right. And I think that's alot of growth and wisdom in itself.
So let's switch over to, like,what you're doing in content creation.
You know, seems like every dayis, Is. Is everybody wants to make
a course, things like that.What is it, what is it like when
you come to the table andyou're making your courses, like,
(18:44):
what causes your courses or,you know, what you do for people
to really stand out in themidst of the sea of courses.
Yeah, I think experience saysa lot. And I've created probably
close to a thousand differentcourses. And what that gives me is
a lot of. A lot of situationsthat I've walked through previously
where if somebody says, hey, Iwant to do this, and I'm like, oh,
(19:07):
I had this situation that wassimilar to that. I have an activity
that works really well, orthey can say, I want to do this activity.
I'm like, well, I tried that acouple of times and it didn't work.
And here's why it didn't work.Let's try this instead. So sometimes
that experience of having gonethrough so many different courses
really, really does help. ButI think that I. I think it's really
(19:28):
kind of knowing what levers topush and kind of what. Where the
important decision points arewhen you're creating that course
really helps. I'm also notrushing to get it done. Like a lot
of people say, get your coursedone in 72 hours or get your course
done in a weekend, or I'veseen all sorts of crazy things. Yes,
you can get a course done thatquickly. I don't know that would
(19:49):
benefit you or anybody else. Ithink also differentiating when it
comes to. Sorry if I'm talkingtoo much, but no, you're fine about
courses and digital onlinecourses. It's really good to differentiate
it from educational spaces andcorporate spaces because some things
are similar. People learnpretty much the same, but their motivations
for taking your course aregoing to be different. And the way
(20:09):
they evaluate or judge successis going to be different too. So
recognizing where digitalcourses are in that triangle between
corporate training, which isdifferent from education, or academic,
you know, typical formaleducation, and then digital online
courses is really helpful as well.
Yeah, that's awesome. So, andyou don't have to apologize. Like,
listen, you're here for thelisteners because these are the questions
(20:31):
the listeners I think reallywant to hear and so definitely love,
love your insight and thingslike that. So, all right, just so,
so say I'm, I'm brand new tocourses. I'm going to make my first
course course and I've got5,000 ideas. What would you say like
would be something that peoplewould be like, all right, how do
I hone in on an idea? And atwhat point would I, would I decide
(20:55):
to work with somebody like you?
Okay, so that's a greatquestion. When it comes to choosing
your course topic that is soimportant, you want to think about
two things. One, we talk a lotin the marketing world about niching,
so that's like having thatexact audience that you're looking
for. But when it comes tocourses, you also want to do scoping.
Like how big is the topic thatyou want to cover? If you make a
(21:16):
very narrow, hyper specifictype topic, then you're going to
have a little bit of work. Ifyour topic gets larger, it's going
to create a lot of work. So ifyou're niching that that's really
going to be. Niching andscoping are both important. The other
thing is to find a topic thatis something that you really love
to do, something that is veryhigh value for your clients. They're
(21:38):
like, oh my gosh, this is whatI've been wanting to do. So a lot
of people are like, I havesome really good thoughts about mindfulness,
so I want to do a journal. Butdoes your person, does your audience,
would they see a mindfulnessjournal as a really high value? You
know, like, is that somethingthey would really want to pay money
for? Because if it's not superhigh value, then that's probably
not a good idea. And then thethird thing you want to look at is
(21:59):
the effort is how much effortis required to create the course.
And I have a, I have a freeworkshop that I do on, on choosing
your course topic. And it goesthrough kind of like the, the things
I just said, the how specificthe topic is, why you want to do
something that's scoped aswell as niched. And I have a spreadsheet
that helps you determine kindof like score several of your top
(22:21):
topics to figure out which onewould make the best choice for you
to move forward with.
Awesome. And then to thelistener out, we'll make sure to
put that, those things in theshow notes for you guys for easy
access, things like that. Sothen second part question to that
was, at what point should Isay, you know what, I need somebody
to help me, let me hire Kate.At what point do you think in the
(22:42):
process do I need to startthinking about that?
Yeah, that really is going todepend on. Of course, things like
this always depend on a lot offactors, but it's really going to
depend on a couple of thingswhen you're creating a course. And
I think a course always worksbest when you have this. I have a
three phase approach. Thefirst is the ID8 where you're trying
to figure out what does itlook like, what am I trying to do?
I'm going to do my analysis,I'm going to call people, I'm going
(23:04):
to talk to people and makesure that this is actually a good
idea. The second phase is whenyou're leading it live so you can
test it, check it, make sureit works, change things, experiment.
You know, I love toexperiment, try things that might
fail to see how they couldwork or make, maybe even make it
better. I have put some prettyimpressive and crazy things in my
(23:24):
courses before and some ofthem have turned out incredibly well.
So if you can experimentinstead of trying to feel like I
have to make this perfect so Ihave to like withhold any interesting
or whatever, just throw allthe experiments in that live group
where you're getting, you'reable to guarantee results for people
because you're working withthem in, in real life and changing
(23:46):
things as needed and then youcan put it into the course. So if
you have a hard time coming inwith activities and stuff like that,
I might be a good choice. Youknow, during that ID 8, when you're
ready to go to the groupprogram, a live launch part, if you
have a group program that'sworked really well, but you're not
sure how to transition it toan online digital course, a lot of
people are really hesitant.They're like, what I do is magic.
(24:08):
I don't know that I can bottleit up and put it into A recorded
course. I guarantee you youcan. It's absolutely possible. It.
I've yet to find anythingthat's so secret sauce that you can't
at least automate through adigital online course, about 90%
of it. I mean, I mean, I'mkind of making an estimate here and
I'm willing for people toprove me wrong. But I think most
(24:32):
of it you can put into digitalonline course as long as the production
is there and the quality isthere and you're anticipating your,
your audience and you're notrecording your video like a monologue,
you're recording it like adialogue. So they're involved in
it. You can bottle up thatmagic sauce.
So I, I love that you saidthat. Like I have so much magic,
I can't bottle it. Like I lovebecause. And I laugh that at some
(24:53):
point. But now, can I tell youwhat that is?
Can I tell you what that is?Have you seen, have you seen that
diagram that has the, theunconscious competence? Yeah, you
go from you. Whenever youstart something, you start it unconsciously
incompetent. And then you goto consciously competent. And then
you go to consciouslycompetent. You can figure it out,
(25:14):
but you have to think aboutit. And then you go to unconsciously
competent. The unconsciouslycompetent people are the experts.
They do it and it feels likemagic to them because they're unconscious.
It's an unconscious process atthat point. You see, if you're a
connoisseur of something, youcan see something and go, that's
good and that's not good, butyou might not be able to articulate
why. So that's where I willoften come in and talk with somebody
(25:36):
who's an expert and say, Ijust have this secret sauce. And
so I see what they do, I watchthem, and then I break it down. Why
is this good and why is thisbad? We'll ask the questions and
we can identify theingredients in the secret sauce.
So I love that because. And Imay actually be calling you on that
one because one of the thingsfor me, one of the things for me,
like I used to always say,well, I'm just a free spirit, which,
(25:57):
that's my personality type.Right. But I, I've really come to
thing and through my wife'shelp and through overcoming some
of those traumas, I'maccepting the parts of me that I
didn't want to accept, whichis like my zone of genius is understanding
people. And it has been sinceI was a kid. But I've always never
thought about it that wayuntil in recent months, and now it's
(26:17):
kind of going to be more andmore coming out that I'm accepting
that. So you say that. And I'mactually going to probably, probably
hit you up at some point toget that for that, because I do.
I do it so effortlessly. Yes,I do want to make a course out of
it. So we're going to betalking, which leads into a great
transition point of saying,how do people find you?
(26:39):
I'm on Facebook. I tried otherplatforms. I just can't do it. So
you put. If you put my link,you know how to get me on Facebook.
That is. That's the best way.I like to have conversations with
real people. So I don't havelike a. A gatekeeper or anything
like that. People can reachout, they can talk to me.
Awesome. And yes, to thelistener. We are going to put all
the things in the show notes,how to find people, how to connect
(27:02):
with them, even the free classthat she offers for you guys, just,
just as an added bonus. Sothat way you can connect on multiple
different levels. And if youwant to write a course, do a course,
make a course, I highlysuggest that you contact Kate. If
for anything, just have theconversation and see where you are.
With that being said, as westart closing down the show for today,
(27:22):
you know, with every show, wedo hashtag wisdombomb. And this is
where we do a portable truthwhere the guest says one sentence
to the. To say, here's awisdom bomb for the audience to take
with them. Kate, what would bea wisdom bomb? You would leave.
I'm going to say, fall in lovewith the problem. And that is if
you're. If you're trying tounderstand yourself or if you're
trying to understand like acourse and empathize with the people.
(27:45):
A lot of times we have thistendency to fall in love with the
solution, and it sometimesblinds us to the nuances and all
of the things that are causingthat problem. And a lot of times
what we try to do with acourse or with ourselves is we try
to attack it at the surfacelevel. But if we are empathically
and compassionately looking atwhat is this problem and why does
(28:07):
it exist and what are thenuances of why it's here? The more
we seek to understand it, themore we love it. And I'm not saying
to love the discomfort or tolove what happened to you, but it's
a problem in your life or aproblem in your course or the way
that people are acting andbehaving. Fall in love with that
problem so that you understandit and you see all the nuances of
it so that then you can dealwith the root cause.
(28:30):
I love that. Thank you forsharing that. And to the listener,
if you've made it this far inthe episode, do me a favor, just
share this with somebody youthink could you really use this episode,
do all the things, whateverplatform you're on, Whether it be
YouTube or Facebook, hit thelikes, hit the shares. Let's just
get the message out and shareand share with the world the expertise
of the guest. And Kate todayis an expert in course creation and
(28:53):
all the things that surroundit. So let's make sure we do the
thing and get her out there.And if you've really been listening,
hit me up on the next episode.Or if you have any questions, contact
me and I'll. We'll, we'll,we'll chat. With that being said,
you have been listening toGrace in the Grind, where we equip,
empower and encourage peopleto do all that God has called them
to. I appreciate you beinghere and we'll see you on the next
(29:14):
episode.
This has been Grace in theGrind. Whether you're a Christian
leader looking for guidance oran entrepreneur seeking inspiration,
it's Jim's passion to equipand encourage you. Make sure to check
out Jim's solo episodes wherehe shares practical leadership insights
grounded in a biblicalperspective. We hope you've enjoyed
the show. If you did, makesure to like, rate and review and
(29:38):
we'll be back soon. But in themeantime, find us on social media
at Lead with Jim and you canalso hit the website at www.leadwithjim.com.
take care of yourself andwe'll see you next time on Grace
in the Grind.
Welcome to Grace and theGrind, the podcast where we dive
deep into the journeys ofheart centered and purpose driven
leaders and entrepreneurs.We're here to equip and encourage
you on your journey. So let'sget started and find the grace within
the grind. This is Grace inthe Grind. And now your host, Jim
(00:21):
Burgoon.
Welcome to Grace in the Grindwhere we're here to equip, to empower,
and to encourage you to do allthat that God has for you in this
life. And today, we're soexcited to have Kate Nash, a friend
on the show. Kate, welcome tothe show.
Thank you. I'm so delighted tobe here with you.
So why don't you take about 90seconds and let the audience know
who you are and what you do.
(00:43):
I'm Kate. Nice to meet youall. I am an instructional designer
for a lot of people who don'tknow what that means. It means I'm
the one responsible forcreating a lot of the training that
people go through when they dotheir jobs and stuff, which sometimes
can seem kind of boring. Anddon't, don't raise your fist at me.
I only create really goodtraining. But I did that for 18 years
and then I left the corporatespace and now I create digital online
(01:06):
courses. I've been a certifiedinstructional designer, or course
creator, if that's what yousay, since 2007.
And so. So you left thecorporate space, you started your
own, your own thing, right?
Yeah.
How was it, how was it likeworking in the corporate? Let's start
there. Let's start with thecorporate. And then I want to talk
about transition.
There are parts of corporatethat are like a dream. I remember
(01:26):
when I took my last job, I waslike, I can't believe they pay me
to do all this fun stuff. Igot to go into, see a variety of
different jobs that peoplewere doing and speak to experts and
figure out how to make thetraining. So it was, you know, the
most efficient, efficient,most effective. So the people. Of
course, I'm really allergic toboring stuff, so I wanted to make
(01:48):
it interesting. You'll have toask me about the drain cleaning video
here in a second. But Ireally, really loved the variety
of things that you could doworking in corporate environment.
And sometimes it just feelslike it's carte blanc, like whatever
you want to do, you can do it.In some cases, it can seem like there's
so many resources availableand so many experiences to do. So
(02:10):
I did a lot of differenttraining in a lot of different areas.
So I worked for a Publicsupermarket for the last 13 years
in the corporate space. Andthen for five years I worked for
my very beloved Radio Shack.Five years in the training department
and then 10 years in thestores before I was in training.
And I really loved working forRadio Shack too is also. It was just
(02:31):
like a dream to do all thosethings. Now I did not necessarily
like corporate politics andthat does exist and it is a thing
and it is part of the reason Ileft. But I did love the experience
and the variety of work I gotto do and the clients I got to work
with and the employees I gotto help. It was amazing.
Now I want to say first andforemost, I haven't heard the name
Radio Shack in a number in aminute. That's been a while since
(02:53):
man, that's cool. That's.
That is my life. That is mylife. I, I got hired there when I
was 19 and I worked thereuntil I was about 32. It was on and
off again. I did, you know,before college, after college and
all over the place. But Iloved working there.
So. So in the midst of all ofthis, right, you're. You're coming
up in the corporate world. Youknow, there's a lot of talk around
(03:15):
being, you know, male versusfemale dominated. And then. So what
were some of the challenges.
You faced in Radio Shack withit being male dominated or just,
just in.
Corporate world in generalwith, with that type of overtone
that's been talked about overthe years. So how. What were some
of the challenges you faced?
I think part of the, theprobably the biggest challenge, if
(03:35):
I was going to say this is it.And of course I'm much older now
and five years ago my. So issomething different. And in five
years I might say somethingdifferent yet. So I'm still growing
and evolving. But if I was topoint my finger and, and say this
is the, this is the problemand the breakdown with a lot of working
in corporate environments,it's that hierarchy. It's that positioning
(03:56):
or the feeling that you haveto be better than somebody else and
somebody else might be betteror the fear that somebody else might
be better than you. A lot ofposturing and it sometimes the way
that corporate invol way thatcorporate and corporate isn't alone.
The way that a lot oforganizations reward what they see
as desired behaviors is basedon what they observe in a person.
(04:20):
And a lot of thoseobservations, for instance, you're
in a meeting whose idea wins.It's not the best idea, it's the
best positioned idea. And soyou'll Find people who are very brilliant,
who aren't really good atmaybe posturing, and they'll get
out done by somebody who'sbrilliant at getting up in front
of people. I don't thinkthere's a way to say these are our
(04:43):
people. And instead ofmeasuring and I've done this and
I've hated it, but I've beenin meetings when I was a manager
where I was told I had to rankall the people and my associates,
who's the best and who's theworst. And I don't like looking at
people that way. I likesaying, this is Cheryl. I never had
a Cheryl working for me, souse that name on purpose. Here's
(05:04):
Cheryl. This is what makesCheryl great. These are the projects
she does really well with.Here's where she needs help. Instead
of saying, Cheryl is betterthan Betty and Betty is better than
Carl.
So, so, like, in thisenvironment, like, I find this fascinating.
How did you navigate theenvironment without losing yourself?
Well, I, I, well, I'm notthere anymore. And part of the reason
(05:26):
is I pushed back against a lotof those expectations. I decided
to run my team my own way. Butin that it wasn't a fit for the company.
It just wasn't a fit for theway they did business. And I can
see now, looking from theiraspect to me, you know, I wasn't
somebody who is innovative andcoming up with a cool solution. And
in doing something different,I was rogue. I was, I was deviant,
(05:49):
you know, deviant to the.Deviating from the expectation.
Yeah, so that's, that'sinteresting to be, to be labeled
the rogue or something justbecause you're doing your thing.
I mean, I'm sure you'reproducing results, but because you
weren't playing the game.Yeah, that's, that's so, so amazing
results.
But they didn't look at thoselike, they were just looking at their
culture and how I was. Theydidn't say I was a threat to their
(06:12):
culture. But that is, lookingback, I think that's what it was.
I was a threat to the culture.
Yeah. So. So you're navigatingall of this and then you decide the
transition. So what, first andforemost, what was the first, like,
nail in the coffin, per se?That was like, I'm. I'm gonna go
do my own thing.
This is okay. I told you therewas nothing off limits. But I don't
know how you zeroed in on theone thing I really, really am hesitant
(06:34):
to talk about. But let's justsay, and I want to Keep everything
kind of like this is. Other,other people are involved in it.
So I just want to keep it kindof. But let's just say it was made
very clear to me that I wouldnot find any progression in the company.
And so I felt like I cannotprove, you know, how people like
(06:55):
see what they expect to see.And so if they expect to see you
fail, they're not looking atall the successes that you had. I
can't promise. I startedthinking about myself. Like I don't
think I can be the person I amand move forward in trying. I love
experimenting and we talkedabout dabbling in AI. I'm not an
expert in it, but I loveexperimenting and trying new things.
(07:15):
I cannot guarantee that Iwon't make a mistake because I like
to experiment and try new things.
Right.
And they're looking for me tomake a mistake.
So, so, so, so we're, we'retransitioning out now. You know,
how did you, how did you likemanage corporate mindset into like
now you're an entrepreneur nowyou're trying to build your own business.
(07:35):
Like there's a mindset shiftin the two. Like they're not the
same. So how did you managemaking that shift? Like what were
some of the things you had to do?
It's a huge mindset shift. Iwas, I'm an expert in instructional
design. I'm an expert coursecreator. You give me any course to
do and I am your, you know,I'm your go to person. But I'm not
really good at running abusiness. You know, like I didn't
(07:57):
know like marketing. I didn'tknow what it meant to make CEO type
decisions. So that was a huge,huge gap. And for some reason I thought
there's all these coursesbeing done online. I'll just hang
up my shingle and people go,oh, our salvation is here. I can't
wait to work with Kate. Shecan make my course great, you know.
And that was, that was notthe, that was not how it happened.
(08:19):
Right.
Yeah.
So, so then what, what waslike what were the, what was the
process to help you make thattransition? Like walk us through
because there's a lot ofpeople on, on, on the listening who
maybe want to leave their nineto five, want to leave their, you
know, their, maybe they haveown a brick and mortar business or
in corporate and they'retrying to leave, but they're stuck
in that mindset. Like what aresome of the things that you can say?
(08:41):
Like this is what I had to doin order to make that Transition.
Yeah. With working incorporate, there's always this idea
of giving and there's never anexpectation that I'm going to ask
you for anything other thanthe stuff that I need to do the job.
Working for yourself, it'slike you cannot give without also
(09:01):
asking for payment. So thatwas like a really big mindset shift.
I'm going to, oh, sure, I cando this for you. It's going to cost
you $2,500 or whatever the,you know, the fee is going to be.
That was a huge mindset shift.It used to be like, whatever you
want to do, I'll do that andmore, I'll, I'll exceed your expectations.
This idea of over prom, underpromising and over delivering was
(09:24):
really, really big incorporate. But you can't do that
when you're working foryourself. You can't under promise
everybody's promising more andyou can't over deliver because it,
there's a cost to over delivery.
Right.
You know, I can't just go, oh,you know, client a, what's this?
But I can do even more becausethat even more is going to cost me
a lot of time. And I could beusing that for marketing or I could
(09:47):
be using that on anotherclient. So that was like a huge shift
for me. And it feels like Idon't want to leave my clients with
like a less than type thing.So that has been, you know, a struggle
and still an ongoing struggle.I still fortunately have never had
a client who hasn't been fullysatisfied with what I've done. You
know, so even with pullingback, I'm still, people are still
(10:08):
very satisfied. I am a veryhard worker and that is one of the
things I did learn forcorporate from corporate. But the
other, the biggest thing toois I thought, you know, I would just
hang out my shingle and thatwould work. And then my second iteration
of working for myself was Ihave to find the right strategy or
the magic word so people willbuy from me. And then it really took
the hard work of realizingwhat's really holding me back more
(10:31):
than anything is I don't wantto be authentic in front of people
or vulnerable in front ofpeople. There's so much self esteem
issues I have to work through.So it isn't some magic strategy or
magic words. It's really a lotof healing.
Yeah, that's, that's, thatalone is an incredibly vulnerable
statement. I don't want to beauthentic in people and I want to
(10:51):
honor that because that's,that's powerful to say that and having
to work through that. And thenwhen you said. You said, I still
struggle, one of the things Ithink I appreciate the most is when
people are able to openlyadmit, hey, listen, I'm gaining ground,
but I still got a ways to go.Like, so I just want to take a second
to honor that. That's. Wow.And so I want to go some lines of
(11:11):
questions in these things, butbefore I do, I want to take a pause
for a second because you hadmentioned the. The Dream Cleaner
video or something like that.The dream. And I want to go back
to that because I. I want todive into some of the feelings and
I want to dive into whatyou're doing now and how you learned
to over, you know, learn theskills. So first and foremost, let's
hit up the drain clean thingthat you mentioned.
(11:33):
This is a drain cleaner video.This was a. We had to do a quick
training because we changedthe drain cleaning procedures at
the last place I worked. Andthe old drain cleaning procedure
had to do with putting, like,what looked like a toilet bowl brush
underneath a plastic bag andspraying some sanitizer down the
drain and plunging it severaltimes to clean that drain really
(11:55):
well. And it was this wholeprocess that was very messy, you
know, very, very messy. Andthen they came up with this, what
seems like a magical projectwhere you just spray it for eight
seconds and you just let it belike, you have to clean out the.
The top of the drain, but youdon't have to do any of those plastic
bags or stuff. But we decidedto do the train, the drain cleaning
(12:16):
video and do it really fun.And it was this very short video
that was, I think it was likefive minutes. And it was an infomercial
for a product where this guywent over the top and he talked about
how amazing this, you know,set it and forget it. We just took
all the best of all theinfomercials, and it was so entertaining.
So people loved watching thisdrain cleaning video whether they
(12:37):
had to clean drains or not.And every time we took that video
down, we would get a requestto put that video back up. But it
was just using that as anopportunity to say, not all draining,
not all training has to beboring. It can be fun and interesting
and make people laugh andstill teach what needs to be taught
or make them cry, as the casemay be.
Yeah, I love that. Theemotional grab. So let's. Let's.
(12:58):
Thank you for sharing that.Because I wrote it down. I circled.
I was like, all right, now Iam interested and curious. So we're
Gonna do that. And let's goback to some of the things you know
about, you know, sharing andstruggles and stuff, because I find
this incredibly fascinatingbecause you're an incredibly talented
individual. Right. So withthat being said, how did you learn
(13:20):
some of the skills to, youknow, run your own business as opposed
to just running to anothercorporate. Like, how did you get
through that? Like, what wereyou, what was your process? What
were your, what were theskills that. Or how did you learn
those skills quickly, let'ssay it that way.
I did a couple of coachingprograms with a number of different
people and I learned from allover the place. As an instructional
designer, learning is kind oflike second nature to me. I know
(13:42):
how to do research, I know howto find information. That part wasn't
that hard to do. I mean, Iknow how to make decisions and do,
you know, cost benefitanalysis and Ben Franklin's and leadership
skills and that sort of thing.It really was about the emotional
healing that was the hardestpart. It was the recovery from a
lot of abuse in my childhoodand stuff like that that cropped
(14:05):
up whenever I had to go outand sell myself, whenever I had to
tell people why I'm the rightchoice that I.
So that brings up some reallyimportant lines of thinking here
because there's a lot ofpeople that still struggle with that.
The childhood trauma, theinsecurities, the inferiorities,
the. All of that. What was abreakthrough moment that helped you,
(14:25):
like really say, I can see, Ican do this, I can sell and be and
feel good about it. Like, whatwas a breakthrough moment for you?
There were a few of them. Onewas this idea that I. I'm embarrassed
to admit that I was in my 40swhen I realized, late 40s before
I realized that thoughts wereoption optional. Like you don't have
to believe the voices that arein your head. I didn't really even,
(14:48):
maybe even think about it. Ithought it was normal. That was one
of the breakthrough momentsfor me. Another one was this need
to be right. Like I thoughtthat being right was the. Was desirable,
you know, kind of like it. Youhad to be right about everything.
And I started thinking like,why is it so important to be right
all the time? Just askingmyself that question help me uncover
(15:11):
some of the reasons why I tieda lot of personal self esteem to
being right. If I was wrong,then I'm not worth of anything, so
I have to be right. Does thatkind of make sense?
It makes perfect sense. No, itdoesn't kind of. It makes perfect
sense because as somebody whois I. I love to say I'm a recovering
people pleaser, recoveringperfectionist because of my own trauma
(15:33):
growing up. And so a lot oftimes when you have people who are
in the entrepreneur space, wevery much get our. All of our validation
and our worth from externalthings. If the external thing doesn't
work, we don't work. If theexternal thing is crap, we're crap.
Like, we. We make thosejudgments in those parallels, but
(15:54):
they're not true because myworth doesn't depend on what I produce.
It's already in there. Sothat's a breakthrough that I had
over the last couple yearsmyself. So, no, you're right on.
You're right on. And I'm surethe listeners are loving this because
a lot of the listeners,particularly my audience, deal with
some levels of this.
Yeah.
You know, and so, so here's.Like, this brings up some real. I
(16:15):
love what you said. Thoughtsare optional. Like, okay, we can
just like, close everythingdown there. That's like, pow. Right?
Here's the question thatreally comes to things. So you're
dealing with your childhoodtrauma, you're dealing with the.
The mindsets of corporatetransitioning into, you know, your
own business. Have to havethis uphill battle of learning while
(16:35):
dealing with the nonsense,while dealing with the emotions.
How did you not quit?
I am not a quitter. I'm justnot. I have been through some really
difficult situations. I justsee it through to the end. I mean
that to be said, like, I sayI'm not a quitter, and I have been
through a divorce and I didquit my job. So there are times when
I'm like, clearly I need tostart seeking an exit strategy. But
(16:55):
like most situations, I justpower through or just wait through.
And I recognize that thedifficult days are numbered. There's
going to be. They're finite.It's. It's going to be like, I'm
gonna last. And also kind oflike, what am I always ask myself
too, if I'm tempted to justquit or give up or run, what am I
(17:15):
running from? And what do Iexpect to find, you know, on the
other side?
So, so in the midst of that,then. Then what were you. What would
you say would be a key or two?That how you built that internal.
What's the word I'm lookingfor? The internal resilience. Was
it just something you'vealways had or did some. Is that something
you've had to say, boom. Like,what were that?
(17:37):
I think that's a gift ofchildhood trauma. So it leaves you
with some childhood traumaleaves you with some wounds for sure,
and some scars and some. Somethings that make you question your
worth, but they're also kindof like. And this is maybe not even
the healthiest thing, but youthink, well, I'm not worth anything
anyway, so I'm just going tostick it out. So you end up sticking
out some situations that youprobably should leave. So. I have
(18:01):
learned to endure difficultsituations. Yay. Go me. I think it
just takes a lot of wisdom ofsaying, is it the right time to quit
or should I just keep going? Ican usually it from my experiences,
I find it usually pretty easyto continue going. I think I have
a harder time saying it's timeto exit the situation. If I had,
(18:22):
I would have probably exitedsome of the situations a lot sooner
than I did.
Right. And I think that's alot of growth and wisdom in itself.
So let's switch over to, like,what you're doing in content creation.
You know, seems like every dayis, Is. Is everybody wants to make
a course, things like that.What is it, what is it like when
you come to the table andyou're making your courses, like,
(18:44):
what causes your courses or,you know, what you do for people
to really stand out in themidst of the sea of courses.
Yeah, I think experience saysa lot. And I've created probably
close to a thousand differentcourses. And what that gives me is
a lot of. A lot of situationsthat I've walked through previously
where if somebody says, hey, Iwant to do this, and I'm like, oh,
(19:07):
I had this situation that wassimilar to that. I have an activity
that works really well, orthey can say, I want to do this activity.
I'm like, well, I tried that acouple of times and it didn't work.
And here's why it didn't work.Let's try this instead. So sometimes
that experience of having gonethrough so many different courses
really, really does help. ButI think that I. I think it's really
(19:28):
kind of knowing what levers topush and kind of what. Where the
important decision points arewhen you're creating that course
really helps. I'm also notrushing to get it done. Like a lot
of people say, get your coursedone in 72 hours or get your course
done in a weekend, or I'veseen all sorts of crazy things. Yes,
you can get a course done thatquickly. I don't know that would
(19:49):
benefit you or anybody else. Ithink also differentiating when it
comes to. Sorry if I'm talkingtoo much, but no, you're fine about
courses and digital onlinecourses. It's really good to differentiate
it from educational spaces andcorporate spaces because some things
are similar. People learnpretty much the same, but their motivations
for taking your course aregoing to be different. And the way
(20:09):
they evaluate or judge successis going to be different too. So
recognizing where digitalcourses are in that triangle between
corporate training, which isdifferent from education, or academic,
you know, typical formaleducation, and then digital online
courses is really helpful as well.
Yeah, that's awesome. So, andyou don't have to apologize. Like,
listen, you're here for thelisteners because these are the questions
(20:31):
the listeners I think reallywant to hear and so definitely love,
love your insight and thingslike that. So, all right, just so,
so say I'm, I'm brand new tocourses. I'm going to make my first
course course and I've got5,000 ideas. What would you say like
would be something that peoplewould be like, all right, how do
I hone in on an idea? And atwhat point would I, would I decide
(20:55):
to work with somebody like you?
Okay, so that's a greatquestion. When it comes to choosing
your course topic that is soimportant, you want to think about
two things. One, we talk a lotin the marketing world about niching,
so that's like having thatexact audience that you're looking
for. But when it comes tocourses, you also want to do scoping.
Like how big is the topic thatyou want to cover? If you make a
(21:16):
very narrow, hyper specifictype topic, then you're going to
have a little bit of work. Ifyour topic gets larger, it's going
to create a lot of work. So ifyou're niching that that's really
going to be. Niching andscoping are both important. The other
thing is to find a topic thatis something that you really love
to do, something that is veryhigh value for your clients. They're
(21:38):
like, oh my gosh, this is whatI've been wanting to do. So a lot
of people are like, I havesome really good thoughts about mindfulness,
so I want to do a journal. Butdoes your person, does your audience,
would they see a mindfulnessjournal as a really high value? You
know, like, is that somethingthey would really want to pay money
for? Because if it's not superhigh value, then that's probably
not a good idea. And then thethird thing you want to look at is
(21:59):
the effort is how much effortis required to create the course.
And I have a, I have a freeworkshop that I do on, on choosing
your course topic. And it goesthrough kind of like the, the things
I just said, the how specificthe topic is, why you want to do
something that's scoped aswell as niched. And I have a spreadsheet
that helps you determine kindof like score several of your top
(22:21):
topics to figure out which onewould make the best choice for you
to move forward with.
Awesome. And then to thelistener out, we'll make sure to
put that, those things in theshow notes for you guys for easy
access, things like that. Sothen second part question to that
was, at what point should Isay, you know what, I need somebody
to help me, let me hire Kate.At what point do you think in the
(22:42):
process do I need to startthinking about that?
Yeah, that really is going todepend on. Of course, things like
this always depend on a lot offactors, but it's really going to
depend on a couple of thingswhen you're creating a course. And
I think a course always worksbest when you have this. I have a
three phase approach. Thefirst is the ID8 where you're trying
to figure out what does itlook like, what am I trying to do?
I'm going to do my analysis,I'm going to call people, I'm going
(23:04):
to talk to people and makesure that this is actually a good
idea. The second phase is whenyou're leading it live so you can
test it, check it, make sureit works, change things, experiment.
You know, I love toexperiment, try things that might
fail to see how they couldwork or make, maybe even make it
better. I have put some prettyimpressive and crazy things in my
(23:24):
courses before and some ofthem have turned out incredibly well.
So if you can experimentinstead of trying to feel like I
have to make this perfect so Ihave to like withhold any interesting
or whatever, just throw allthe experiments in that live group
where you're getting, you'reable to guarantee results for people
because you're working withthem in, in real life and changing
(23:46):
things as needed and then youcan put it into the course. So if
you have a hard time coming inwith activities and stuff like that,
I might be a good choice. Youknow, during that ID 8, when you're
ready to go to the groupprogram, a live launch part, if you
have a group program that'sworked really well, but you're not
sure how to transition it toan online digital course, a lot of
people are really hesitant.They're like, what I do is magic.
(24:08):
I don't know that I can bottleit up and put it into A recorded
course. I guarantee you youcan. It's absolutely possible. It.
I've yet to find anythingthat's so secret sauce that you can't
at least automate through adigital online course, about 90%
of it. I mean, I mean, I'mkind of making an estimate here and
I'm willing for people toprove me wrong. But I think most
(24:32):
of it you can put into digitalonline course as long as the production
is there and the quality isthere and you're anticipating your,
your audience and you're notrecording your video like a monologue,
you're recording it like adialogue. So they're involved in
it. You can bottle up thatmagic sauce.
So I, I love that you saidthat. Like I have so much magic,
I can't bottle it. Like I lovebecause. And I laugh that at some
(24:53):
point. But now, can I tell youwhat that is?
Can I tell you what that is?Have you seen, have you seen that
diagram that has the, theunconscious competence? Yeah, you
go from you. Whenever youstart something, you start it unconsciously
incompetent. And then you goto consciously competent. And then
you go to consciouslycompetent. You can figure it out,
(25:14):
but you have to think aboutit. And then you go to unconsciously
competent. The unconsciouslycompetent people are the experts.
They do it and it feels likemagic to them because they're unconscious.
It's an unconscious process atthat point. You see, if you're a
connoisseur of something, youcan see something and go, that's
good and that's not good, butyou might not be able to articulate
why. So that's where I willoften come in and talk with somebody
(25:36):
who's an expert and say, Ijust have this secret sauce. And
so I see what they do, I watchthem, and then I break it down. Why
is this good and why is thisbad? We'll ask the questions and
we can identify theingredients in the secret sauce.
So I love that because. And Imay actually be calling you on that
one because one of the thingsfor me, one of the things for me,
like I used to always say,well, I'm just a free spirit, which,
(25:57):
that's my personality type.Right. But I, I've really come to
thing and through my wife'shelp and through overcoming some
of those traumas, I'maccepting the parts of me that I
didn't want to accept, whichis like my zone of genius is understanding
people. And it has been sinceI was a kid. But I've always never
thought about it that wayuntil in recent months, and now it's
(26:17):
kind of going to be more andmore coming out that I'm accepting
that. So you say that. And I'mactually going to probably, probably
hit you up at some point toget that for that, because I do.
I do it so effortlessly. Yes,I do want to make a course out of
it. So we're going to betalking, which leads into a great
transition point of saying,how do people find you?
(26:39):
I'm on Facebook. I tried otherplatforms. I just can't do it. So
you put. If you put my link,you know how to get me on Facebook.
That is. That's the best way.I like to have conversations with
real people. So I don't havelike a. A gatekeeper or anything
like that. People can reachout, they can talk to me.
Awesome. And yes, to thelistener. We are going to put all
the things in the show notes,how to find people, how to connect
(27:02):
with them, even the free classthat she offers for you guys, just,
just as an added bonus. Sothat way you can connect on multiple
different levels. And if youwant to write a course, do a course,
make a course, I highlysuggest that you contact Kate. If
for anything, just have theconversation and see where you are.
With that being said, as westart closing down the show for today,
(27:22):
you know, with every show, wedo hashtag wisdombomb. And this is
where we do a portable truthwhere the guest says one sentence
to the. To say, here's awisdom bomb for the audience to take
with them. Kate, what would bea wisdom bomb? You would leave.
I'm going to say, fall in lovewith the problem. And that is if
you're. If you're trying tounderstand yourself or if you're
trying to understand like acourse and empathize with the people.
(27:45):
A lot of times we have thistendency to fall in love with the
solution, and it sometimesblinds us to the nuances and all
of the things that are causingthat problem. And a lot of times
what we try to do with acourse or with ourselves is we try
to attack it at the surfacelevel. But if we are empathically
and compassionately looking atwhat is this problem and why does
(28:07):
it exist and what are thenuances of why it's here? The more
we seek to understand it, themore we love it. And I'm not saying
to love the discomfort or tolove what happened to you, but it's
a problem in your life or aproblem in your course or the way
that people are acting andbehaving. Fall in love with that
problem so that you understandit and you see all the nuances of
it so that then you can dealwith the root cause.
(28:30):
I love that. Thank you forsharing that. And to the listener,
if you've made it this far inthe episode, do me a favor, just
share this with somebody youthink could you really use this episode,
do all the things, whateverplatform you're on, Whether it be
YouTube or Facebook, hit thelikes, hit the shares. Let's just
get the message out and shareand share with the world the expertise
of the guest. And Kate todayis an expert in course creation and
(28:53):
all the things that surroundit. So let's make sure we do the
thing and get her out there.And if you've really been listening,
hit me up on the next episode.Or if you have any questions, contact
me and I'll. We'll, we'll,we'll chat. With that being said,
you have been listening toGrace in the Grind, where we equip,
empower and encourage peopleto do all that God has called them
to. I appreciate you beinghere and we'll see you on the next
(29:14):
episode.
This has been Grace in theGrind. Whether you're a Christian
leader looking for guidance oran entrepreneur seeking inspiration,
it's Jim's passion to equipand encourage you. Make sure to check
out Jim's solo episodes wherehe shares practical leadership insights
grounded in a biblicalperspective. We hope you've enjoyed
the show. If you did, makesure to like, rate and review and
(29:38):
we'll be back soon. But in themeantime, find us on social media
at Lead with Jim and you canalso hit the website at www.leadwithjim.com.
take care of yourself andwe'll see you next time on Grace
in the Grind.
Host
Jim Burgoon
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