December 30, 2024 • 23 mins
Anthony Nelson Jr. joins Jim Burgoon on Grace in the Grind to discuss the vital role of leadership development in minority-owned businesses. Anthony shares his journey from growing up in a single-parent household to serving in the Air Force and eventually establishing his own leadership company and Christian clothing line. He emphasizes the importance of treating people well and fostering effective communication within organizations to drive growth. The conversation explores how leaders can shift their focus from products to people, highlighting the necessity of emotional intelligence and practical applications of leadership principles. Anthony also introduces his framework of the "three L's"—listen, learn, and lead—as essential tools for personal and professional growth.
Anthony Nelson Jr. takes center stage on Grace in the Grind, sharing a compelling narrative that intertwines personal experiences with profound insights into leadership and community engagement. Growing up in a single-parent home, Anthony’s journey has been marked by resilience and a strong sense of purpose, which he now channels into his work as a leadership coach and entrepreneur. His military background in the Air Force not only instilled discipline but also highlighted the importance of emotional intelligence in leadership. This episode dives into how these life lessons have shaped his approach to developing healthier workplace cultures that prioritize empathy, communication, and respect.
The discussion delves into the struggles that minority-owned businesses face in today’s market, especially regarding effective communication and the perception of legitimacy. Anthony identifies these barriers and emphasizes the importance of understanding one’s role as a business leader—not merely selling products but nurturing the growth of one’s team and community. His insights are particularly relevant for entrepreneurs looking to create sustainable practices that enhance both their business and their employees' well-being. By fostering strong relationships and encouraging open dialogue, Anthony believes leaders can create a positive ripple effect that extends beyond the workplace.
In closing, Anthony offers invaluable advice on personal growth and leadership development. Through his framework of being teachable, coachable, and non-defensive, he encourages listeners to adopt a mindset of continual learning. This transformative perspective not only empowers individuals to confront their assumptions but also fosters an environment where collaboration and understanding thrive. The episode serves as a powerful reminder that effective leadership is not just about authority but about building connections and guiding others towards collective success.
Takeaways:
- Anthony Nelson Jr. shares how growing up in a single-parent household shaped his leadership journey and resilience.
- He emphasizes the importance of being a better follower to become a stronger leader in any field.
- Nelson's experience in the military taught him the value of communication and connection in leadership.
- His clothing line aims to inspire and empower individuals through Christian messages and principles.
- The three L's of leadership—listen, learn, and lead—are essential for personal and professional growth.
- He advocates for minority-owned businesses to recognize their value and engage in effective communication strategies.
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Cultivate Network Leadership
anthony nelson
Anthony Nelson Jr., is the founder of Cultivate Network Leadership and Called Out Ones clothing brand. In his role, he provides coaching and leadership skills developed to empower those underserved companies and communities by providing life skills through resilience talks, key notes, public speaking, leadership. His background spans 20+ years of military...
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to Grace in the Grind,the podcast where we dive deep into
the journeys of heart centeredand purpose driven leaders and entrepreneurs.
We're here to equip andencourage you on your journey.
So let's get started and findthe grace within the grind.
This is Grace in the Grind.
And now your host, Jim Burgoon.
(00:22):
Welcome to this episode ofGrace in the Grind where we're here
to empower, to encourage andto equip Christians in business to
do all that God has for themto do.
And today we have a new friendto the show, Anthony.
Welcome to the show.
Hey, thanks for having me, Jim.
I appreciate it.
So let's do this.
At the first segment, wealways ask our guests, because you
are the best expert of you,why don't you take 60 to 90 seconds
(00:44):
and just tell the audience whoyou are and what you do?
Yeah, absolutely.
So I am a product of a singleparent household, stereotypical African
American household in theUnited States.
I am a product of that.
I'm also a product of thepublic school system in Newport News,
(01:07):
Virginia.
I'm also a product of the Air Force.
20 years, did that and retired.
So what am I doing now?
Today I run two companies.
I run a leadership companyaimed at encouraging business owners
to treat their people betterand learn how to communicate with
(01:27):
them better.
And also I own a clothingline, Christian clothing line.
A lot of slogans andstatements, but with these two power
together, my aim is tocultivate a network of leaders to
let people know that you are a leader.
You're also a follower.
So in order to be a betterleader, you got to be a better follower.
(01:50):
That's great stuff.
So you actually, when as youwere talking, you opened up a really
great line of questioningsthat I think a lot of our listeners
may benefit from, which is yougrew up in a single parent home and
I know that brings a lot of challenges.
So let's first start talk of that.
Growing up in a home and anenvironment like that, with a single
parent coming into adultadulthood, what were some of the
(02:12):
challenges you faced?
Yeah, having the presence ofa, a two parent home is incredible,
right?
Knowing that God institutedthat from the beginning definitely
says that there's power andauthority and protection and covering
with that.
So not having that kind ofleaves you out there for the wild,
(02:33):
right?
For the wolves, so to speak.
So I definitely endured in myshare of temptations, vices, and
just being African Americanmale in the late 90s, early 2000s
as a teenager and adolescent,definitely challenges in school,
challenges in the neighborhood.
(02:55):
But I will say most peopletend to leave out or not even bring
awareness to the parent thatwasn't there.
So even though my father wasnot there, he still loved us, my
sister and I.
He still showed up when hecould, given this situation.
So even though my mother andfather were no longer together, he
(03:15):
still loved us.
So then growing up in that.
And you know what?
I'm grateful that your dadstill loved you.
My dad left.
I haven't seen him in 43 years.
He left when I was like 6.
So with that being said,mindset is everything.
And developing the mindsetwithin this context, when a father
is absent, the mindset tendsto be very challenging.
(03:35):
Right.
Like you tend to have much more.
I'm not going to win, I'm notgoing to compete.
I'm not this really almostpassive mindset when a father isn't
present.
Yeah.
How did you get through someof the challenges of those type of
things to be successful inwhat you've done?
Yeah, absolutely.
So in my life, I'm definitelyaware of God's presence and his hand
(04:00):
and covering over my life,even though my father wasn't there.
I had an older brother.
He was 19 years older.
But when he wasn't in my life,I've always had uncles, older cousins,
a good friend, childhoodfriend of mine, jt.
Shout out.
Jt.
I love him and he was like abig brother to me.
But I've always had male rolemodels in my life.
(04:22):
Whether that was like a deaconat a church, a coach, a mentor, a
teacher, I've always had thatmale figure cover me and guide me
along the way.
And I understand that's noteveryone's story, but when I reflect
back, I'm grateful because itkept me from a lot of things that
could have hurt me.
(04:42):
So when did you meet God?
Because you've mentioned thatin our conversation, God has been
the guiding factor, which,praise God, that you've had those
male influences.
But when did you meet God onyour journey?
Yeah.
So I like to tell people I.
I've never done drugs, butgrowing up I did have a drug problem
and that problem was my momdrug us to church.
(05:03):
Right.
I was like, wait, this is interesting.
No, I got you.
I like this.
Yeah.
So I don't really ascribe tothe fact that we grew up in church.
Like there was a life event.
Right.
My mother and father got adivorce and then we started to go
to church, but church wasn'tin us.
So really it wasn't until Ijoined the Air Force and got out
(05:24):
on My own.
To live life, as you say, in 2005.
Yeah, 2005 is really when Ibegan to walk with the Lord and be
serious.
And he joined me with thefamily when I was stationed in Alaska.
That kind of took me in.
I still talk to him today.
Beth and Derek Whitaker, andthey just showed me the love of Christ,
(05:48):
man.
In practical terms.
It wasn't beat me up withtheological terms, even though there
were time for Bible studiesand things like that, but just a
love of Christ, man.
And it really challenged mebecause what I saw in the military
and what I read in the Word,it felt like it was opposite.
It felt like, yo, you can't bea Christian and be in the Air Force
(06:11):
or military, because this iswhat I'm seeing promoted in the barracks
or in the dorms.
So how can one live a lifethat is honoring to God but still
serve his country, but stillidentify with elements of his upbringing
that he's still a part of?
Right?
So I grew up listening to hiphop and playing sports and stuff.
(06:34):
How can you be a Christian andstill do these things?
The Whitakers were one familythat showed me how I could still
do that.
1 Honor God, to represent himin the workplace or the marketplace.
So what prompted you gettinginto the military?
Sorry, I'm laughing becausepeople are gonna really enjoy this.
I was involved with a younglady and I was out there doing things
(06:59):
that only married peopleshould do.
And we thought we would be expecting.
So that kind of put a littlefire in me to be proactive.
And hey, if we're going downthis road, I need to be able to provide.
So talked to the recruiter started.
That's really what spark theinterest in.
(07:20):
In going to the military anddoing something with my life.
So why the Air Force?
Of all the branches, man, the good.
Story, My father retired army,so I saw a lot with that.
And I would say most of myfamily, specifically on my father's
side, joined the Army.
I would say a strong 95% ofthose family members that joined
(07:45):
the Army.
So I had a few join theMarines, Navy here and there.
But when I went to therecruiter, they had a battle buddy
system, right?
Like you can join with yourfriend and get all this money and
bonus and all that stuff.
So I remember driving him tothe recruiter's office, and the recruiter
was very aggressive, great salesman.
(08:06):
And we drove in on a Monday,and he was talking all this talk
and was like, hey, I can haveyou out by Thursday.
And I said, Thursday, this week.
And he's yeah, no, man, that'stoo early, too soon.
I'm a senior in high school.
I'm trying to figure out life.
Like I need some time to thinkabout this.
I understand why they do itnow, but at that point it pushed
(08:27):
me away from the army and thenthe jobs they were offering me.
I got some insight from afather who's retired army as well
as other family members.
And this was around 2003.
So they said, hey, if you dothese particular jobs, where do you
think you're going to end up?
And I said, oh, okay.
I pick up what you're putting down.
(08:47):
So with the job, what job,first and foremost, what job did
you have in the Air Force andare you doing the job that you had?
Yeah, so the job I had in theAir Force, it came out as a basic
still photographer.
So I was a photographer.
And then fast forward, yearslater, we merged to another career
field, became a photojournalist.
(09:09):
After photo, we merged intopublic affairs.
So if you think about anythingthat your local news station is doing,
we did that and more.
So now this brings up someinteresting side things.
Number one, as a priormilitary guy too, I didn't know that
photography was an option.
Oh yeah, it would have done.
Signed up for that one anyway.
(09:29):
That's.
I'll stop being salty there,but so photography, photojournalism,
public affairs, clothing line.
Yeah, yeah.
Or even the leadership brand.
That's an arc.
That doesn't.
Doesn't compute.
Well, so tell me the journeyto that.
Yeah, man, absolutely.
So with respect to my careerfield, I always felt I was one of
(09:53):
the anomalies.
Right.
So my career field ispredominantly female, predominantly
Caucasian.
And it is, it can be very selfcentered in a way.
Right.
Like it's about you, aboutyour articles, your photos, your
(10:14):
videos, all these things.
You communicating with senior leaders.
And while that's important ina way, I always felt drawn to helping
others.
Right.
Communicating with others,being the bridge.
And really before it wasreally before the time that, that
we have right now where peopleare identifying it as emotional intelligence.
(10:36):
I always worked in the factthat I need to know about the person
I'm working with.
Right.
I need to be able to help them.
How can I help them?
So that's what started thiswhole leadership journey.
When I reflect on my careerand I was transitioning out the military,
I said, what can I do to stillbe who I am, right.
And bring my skills, myknowledge, my experience to the workforce.
(11:00):
And then with the clothingline, I felt like it was birth way
back when I was living in thedorms in Alaska and pressing T shirts
in.
In the dorm, Christian Tshirts, things that kind of stand
out.
And I, I began doing that andthen I.
There was a season where I stopped.
I got married, had kids andall that.
And then I felt it was time tobring it back.
(11:20):
And that's what I did duringthe pandemic.
So that's where I'm at now.
And I'm very excited for whatthe future holds with both of those
companies.
Absolutely.
Same here.
And so this, the reallyinteresting part is, so you chose
to help people throughleadership development.
Why leadership development?
And as a career leadershipdevelopment guy, I've been doing
(11:42):
it for about a little over 20 years.
Like, why that?
As opposed to social work oreven pastoring or something like
that.
But leadership development's awhole other.
Why that, right?
Yeah, exactly.
So I feel like you can do allof those that you just mentioned,
right?
They're all important.
They all have their niche.
(12:03):
But what I found is thatpeople may not read their Bible,
right?
But you may be the only Biblethey read.
So whether you're in themarketplace, you're in the church
setting, the pews, or thecongregation, like you need to represent
Christ.
So we need Christ out there inthe marketplace.
Right.
Other people need to know thatthere is.
(12:25):
I'm sorry, there are peoplewith integrity, there are people
with values.
There are people that careabout other things in the bottom
line.
Right.
So care about their soul, careabout their ego, emotions and how
they are understanding and howthey're communicating.
So I wanted to do that and bea bridge because I felt I can be
an extension and arepresentation of a local church
(12:49):
in the business sector.
And again, no shade to pastorsor anything like that.
They definitely hold a specialplace in my heart for a lot of reasons.
But I also felt like I couldbe the bridge, right?
Communicating with the churchmeeting, also communicating with
the business world and beingable to draw the two together.
So in your leadershipdevelopment, I'm, I'm fascinated
(13:11):
now with the line of thinking here.
So with leadershipdevelopment, do you specifically
focus in a niche or do youfocus just in general?
Like, where is your littlelike, line in the sand that you drew
for, for your audience?
Yes.
So we're growing it as we speak.
And the goal and idea is totarget minority owned businesses,
(13:33):
small to medium sizedbusinesses, providing them with leadership
development.
So leadership lessons thatI've learned through my faith, through
my service in the Air Force,and just my upbringing, principles
and concepts, and apply it to business.
So where do you find?
Let's just talk about theminority owned businesses.
I think that's a beautifulfocus to have.
(13:55):
What do you find is thebiggest struggles they're having?
Oh man, that's a good one.
I say two things I'm going totread lightly because I don't want
it to be misinterpreted sometimes.
One, it is just communication, right?
Communicating with youremployees, communicating with your
(14:15):
customers in a way that isrespectful but also in a way that's
professional.
Then the second one I think isunderstanding that you are a business,
right?
You're not doing it out theback of your trunk or on the side
of the road like you want tobe seen as a legitimate business.
(14:37):
Then there are things that youneed to do, there's ways that you
need to operate and present yourself.
And I think I pull a littlebit of that from a public affairs
side.
Being a strategiccommunicator, understanding branding
and social media and articlesand photos and how you represent,
so trying to communicate thatwhole package to a company.
(14:59):
So when you're working withthem on this stuff, do you work with
primarily brand new businesseslike or businesses that haven't started
but they want to start abusiness, Right.
So we're targeting businessesthat have already started and that
are trying to grow and maybeunderstand that man, in order to,
for me to grow, instead of melooking at say this product, right,
(15:23):
Maybe I should look internally.
How can I grow my people?
If I grow my people then verywell it could happen that my product
or my service will increase.
Let me grow them, let meinvest in them.
So working one on one or insmall team settings to help the business
understand things likecommunication, personality, things
(15:45):
of that nature.
So what is the biggestresistance you have faced when they're
trying, when you're trying tohelp them switch from a product based
to a people based man.
Everybody knows everything in,in the age of social media and the
Internet, everyone knows anything.
Oh yeah, I read that article,I read that book.
I understand.
But how do you apply it?
(16:05):
How do we extract somepractical application here?
Sometimes even as a parent, Imay say one thing to a child.
They don't listen.
But if their teacher says it adifferent way, they may hold on to
it.
So I'm not really sayinganything that they don't know already.
I'm just putting it out therein a different way so they're like,
(16:29):
oh, I didn't think about it inthat way.
So a lot of times they mightsay I don't like Susie.
Susie is getting on My nerves.
She's terrible.
I want to fire her.
Is Susie really the problem?
Yeah, Susie's problem.
Could it be your communicationwith Susie, how you communicate?
Could your timing be off?
(16:49):
Bottom line is this.
I understand it, but could youcommunicate that differently?
Why are you having thatconversation via text message and
not in person?
I love that.
So all these differentelements of emotional intelligence
and then just understandingpractical applications of these big
principles.
Hey, let's break it down.
(17:11):
And being resilient, which I'ma fan of that word, but I'm also
a growing fan of endurance.
I think we need to build endurance.
Oftentimes, from what I'veseen in my experience, resilience
gets a negative viewpoint.
Right, Right.
So you're not good enoughbecause you don't have enough resilience.
We need to build thatendurance muscle.
(17:32):
We need to work on it.
We need to put some practicalthings in place so then when hard
times come, we can build offwhat we've already started.
That's powerful.
That's very powerful and fun.
Fun fact.
I.
I love how we're drivingbecause I literally did a live this
week.
And if you guys who arelistening, head to the YouTube channel
at lead with Jim.
Number one on it was like 10reasons why you're not growing.
(17:54):
Number one was you're a knowit all.
That was like legit.
First one, like number one.
So if we man, will the know itall, we could start growing again.
AB so with all this, you're inthese businesses, you're helping
them shift, you're doing these things.
Lots of resistance on some things.
What are like a frameworkyou've developed to really get people
to accept this because it'shard to accept that they may be at
(18:17):
fault.
Absolutely.
So I, I'll share with you youraudience, man.
It's really something that Idiscovered and developed first in
my family, and I share thiswith my kids all the time.
Three L's, I, I come from anathletic background.
Right.
So playing sports, growing up,playing sports in the military.
(18:38):
Right.
We want to get those dubs orthose W's, those wins.
We hate those L's, Right.
We hate the losses.
But I think three L's that youneed to take every single day to
make you better in a three are.
Three Ls are listen, learn and lead.
If you listen more, right,then you can know how to lead.
(19:00):
And then listening, you'relearning what's working, what's not
working.
And then therefore, you canlead a whole lot better.
Because one thing that Idiscovered through a Very good friend
of mine, and I will shout him out.
Drew Carson, he taught me this.
He said, learn to inter.
Sorry, let me repeat that.
(19:21):
He taught me to learn tointerrogate your assumptions and
not interrogate people.
I love that.
I love that.
Yay.
If you're gonna quotesomebody, gotta quote them, right?
Because they know they'regonna be listening.
Yeah, absolutely.
No, that's great.
Learn to interrogate yourassumptions, not people.
I think that's a beautifulstatement, man.
That's powerful.
And to you guys who arelistening, make sure that you take
(19:44):
hold of that particular statement.
In general, if we spent moretime interrogating ourselves than
we do judging others, oh, my gosh.
Could.
How much growth could we have?
Yeah.
When we.
As we come down towards theend of the episode, as we come down
ToWards this, there's three things.
Ask number one, how do peoplefind you?
Yes, I'm on LinkedIn.
You can just search AnthonyNelson Jr.
I'm on LinkedIn.
(20:05):
Post up there pretty frequently.
The company has an Instagrampage, cultivate network leadership.
And a Facebook page, cultivatenetwork leadership as well.
Awesome.
And for you listeners, we willhave that in the show notes.
All of those links make itsuper easy to just click and go to
make sure to connect with them.
(20:25):
So the.
This is the part of thesegment as we shut down where we
call hashtag wisdom bomb.
If you follow me on Lead withJim, we.
And you've dropped a lot ofwisdom bombs through a lot through
this episode already.
Oh, we do this because I'vebeen doing this since, I think, 2019,
where I do a daily wisdom bombfor people.
It's a portable truth.
A truth people can take andapply to their life.
What is one portable truth,one hashtag wisdom bomb that you
(20:48):
would leave with the audience.
Man, you put me on the spot.
I.
I need a.
A second or two to think aboutthis one.
Leave the audience withsomething good, man.
I already gave you three L's.
That was, that was pretty good.
Let's see, what would I leavethe audience with?
I leave the audience withthis, which through my conversations
with a pastor of mine that Isat under for 10 years, Abraham Chin
(21:13):
Jr.
He used to always tell us tobe teachable, coachable and non defensive,
Right?
So if you want to grow in anyarea of your life, any relationships,
anything, you got to be teachable.
Realize that you don't know it all.
What you know is valuable.
What you know is important,but you don't know it all, right?
(21:35):
So be teachable.
Also be correctable.
Understand that you could havea portion of the truth, but not a
whole truth.
You can have a portion of theequation, but not the whole equation.
Right?
So be teachable, correctable.
And the last one is to be nondefensive, right?
So the reality is we choose tobe offensive.
(21:59):
This person called me, thisname, this, this company is doing
this.
We choose to be offensive.
So make the conscious effortto be non defensive.
Try to see things outside ofyourself so that you can have a better
perspective on what's really happening.
Powerful.
See you elevated the three Ls.
(22:20):
We got the dub, man.
We got the dub.
We elevated it.
Good job.
Let's go.
That's it, man.
So you guys, for you guys whoare here on Grace and the Grind,
we appreciate you listening inand checking out the episodes and
with my guests.
We're so grateful for Anthonyto be here today.
Sir, thank you for having thisconversation and for all you guys.
Remember, you're we're here.
We exist in Grace in the Grindto help you, actually, not just to
(22:42):
help you, but to encourage, toequip and to empower you to do all
that God has created you to do.
So make sure, you know, hitall the things.
Share this out and then gocheck some of the other episodes
out because we always love toengage with you.
And if you have any ideas orthoughts on any other episodes that
you might like to hear, let meknow in one of the comments on the
place that you heard this.
With that being said, we loveyou and we'll talk to you on the
(23:04):
next.
This has been Grace in the Grind.
Whether you're a Christianleader looking for guidance or an
entrepreneur seekinginspiration, it's Jim's passion to
equip and encourage you.
Make sure to check out Jim'ssolo episodes where he shares practical
leadership insights groundedin a biblical perspective.
We hope you've enjoyed the show.
(23:26):
If you did, make sure to likerate and review and we'll be back
soon.
But in the meantime, find uson social media eadwithjim and you
can also hit the website at www.leadwithjim.com.
take care of your yourself andwe'll see you next time on Grace
(23:46):
in the Grind.
Welcome to Grace in the Grind,the podcast where we dive deep into
the journeys of heart centeredand purpose driven leaders and entrepreneurs.
We're here to equip andencourage you on your journey.
So let's get started and findthe grace within the grind.
This is Grace in the Grind.
And now your host, Jim Burgoon.
(00:22):
Welcome to this episode ofGrace in the Grind where we're here
to empower, to encourage andto equip Christians in business to
do all that God has for themto do.
And today we have a new friendto the show, Anthony.
Welcome to the show.
Hey, thanks for having me, Jim.
I appreciate it.
So let's do this.
At the first segment, wealways ask our guests, because you
are the best expert of you,why don't you take 60 to 90 seconds
(00:44):
and just tell the audience whoyou are and what you do?
Yeah, absolutely.
So I am a product of a singleparent household, stereotypical African
American household in theUnited States.
I am a product of that.
I'm also a product of thepublic school system in Newport News,
(01:07):
Virginia.
I'm also a product of the Air Force.
20 years, did that and retired.
So what am I doing now?
Today I run two companies.
I run a leadership companyaimed at encouraging business owners
to treat their people betterand learn how to communicate with
(01:27):
them better.
And also I own a clothingline, Christian clothing line.
A lot of slogans andstatements, but with these two power
together, my aim is tocultivate a network of leaders to
let people know that you are a leader.
You're also a follower.
So in order to be a betterleader, you got to be a better follower.
(01:50):
That's great stuff.
So you actually, when as youwere talking, you opened up a really
great line of questioningsthat I think a lot of our listeners
may benefit from, which is yougrew up in a single parent home and
I know that brings a lot of challenges.
So let's first start talk of that.
Growing up in a home and anenvironment like that, with a single
parent coming into adultadulthood, what were some of the
(02:12):
challenges you faced?
Yeah, having the presence ofa, a two parent home is incredible,
right?
Knowing that God institutedthat from the beginning definitely
says that there's power andauthority and protection and covering
with that.
So not having that kind ofleaves you out there for the wild,
(02:33):
right?
For the wolves, so to speak.
So I definitely endured in myshare of temptations, vices, and
just being African Americanmale in the late 90s, early 2000s
as a teenager and adolescent,definitely challenges in school,
challenges in the neighborhood.
(02:55):
But I will say most peopletend to leave out or not even bring
awareness to the parent thatwasn't there.
So even though my father wasnot there, he still loved us, my
sister and I.
He still showed up when hecould, given this situation.
So even though my mother andfather were no longer together, he
(03:15):
still loved us.
So then growing up in that.
And you know what?
I'm grateful that your dadstill loved you.
My dad left.
I haven't seen him in 43 years.
He left when I was like 6.
So with that being said,mindset is everything.
And developing the mindsetwithin this context, when a father
is absent, the mindset tendsto be very challenging.
(03:35):
Right.
Like you tend to have much more.
I'm not going to win, I'm notgoing to compete.
I'm not this really almostpassive mindset when a father isn't
present.
Yeah.
How did you get through someof the challenges of those type of
things to be successful inwhat you've done?
Yeah, absolutely.
So in my life, I'm definitelyaware of God's presence and his hand
(04:00):
and covering over my life,even though my father wasn't there.
I had an older brother.
He was 19 years older.
But when he wasn't in my life,I've always had uncles, older cousins,
a good friend, childhoodfriend of mine, jt.
Shout out.
Jt.
I love him and he was like abig brother to me.
But I've always had male rolemodels in my life.
(04:22):
Whether that was like a deaconat a church, a coach, a mentor, a
teacher, I've always had thatmale figure cover me and guide me
along the way.
And I understand that's noteveryone's story, but when I reflect
back, I'm grateful because itkept me from a lot of things that
could have hurt me.
(04:42):
So when did you meet God?
Because you've mentioned thatin our conversation, God has been
the guiding factor, which,praise God, that you've had those
male influences.
But when did you meet God onyour journey?
Yeah.
So I like to tell people I.
I've never done drugs, butgrowing up I did have a drug problem
and that problem was my momdrug us to church.
(05:03):
Right.
I was like, wait, this is interesting.
No, I got you.
I like this.
Yeah.
So I don't really ascribe tothe fact that we grew up in church.
Like there was a life event.
Right.
My mother and father got adivorce and then we started to go
to church, but church wasn'tin us.
So really it wasn't until Ijoined the Air Force and got out
(05:24):
on My own.
To live life, as you say, in 2005.
Yeah, 2005 is really when Ibegan to walk with the Lord and be
serious.
And he joined me with thefamily when I was stationed in Alaska.
That kind of took me in.
I still talk to him today.
Beth and Derek Whitaker, andthey just showed me the love of Christ,
(05:48):
man.
In practical terms.
It wasn't beat me up withtheological terms, even though there
were time for Bible studiesand things like that, but just a
love of Christ, man.
And it really challenged mebecause what I saw in the military
and what I read in the Word,it felt like it was opposite.
It felt like, yo, you can't bea Christian and be in the Air Force
(06:11):
or military, because this iswhat I'm seeing promoted in the barracks
or in the dorms.
So how can one live a lifethat is honoring to God but still
serve his country, but stillidentify with elements of his upbringing
that he's still a part of?
Right?
So I grew up listening to hiphop and playing sports and stuff.
(06:34):
How can you be a Christian andstill do these things?
The Whitakers were one familythat showed me how I could still
do that.
1 Honor God, to represent himin the workplace or the marketplace.
So what prompted you gettinginto the military?
Sorry, I'm laughing becausepeople are gonna really enjoy this.
I was involved with a younglady and I was out there doing things
(06:59):
that only married peopleshould do.
And we thought we would be expecting.
So that kind of put a littlefire in me to be proactive.
And hey, if we're going downthis road, I need to be able to provide.
So talked to the recruiter started.
That's really what spark theinterest in.
(07:20):
In going to the military anddoing something with my life.
So why the Air Force?
Of all the branches, man, the good.
Story, My father retired army,so I saw a lot with that.
And I would say most of myfamily, specifically on my father's
side, joined the Army.
I would say a strong 95% ofthose family members that joined
(07:45):
the Army.
So I had a few join theMarines, Navy here and there.
But when I went to therecruiter, they had a battle buddy
system, right?
Like you can join with yourfriend and get all this money and
bonus and all that stuff.
So I remember driving him tothe recruiter's office, and the recruiter
was very aggressive, great salesman.
(08:06):
And we drove in on a Monday,and he was talking all this talk
and was like, hey, I can haveyou out by Thursday.
And I said, Thursday, this week.
And he's yeah, no, man, that'stoo early, too soon.
I'm a senior in high school.
I'm trying to figure out life.
Like I need some time to thinkabout this.
I understand why they do itnow, but at that point it pushed
(08:27):
me away from the army and thenthe jobs they were offering me.
I got some insight from afather who's retired army as well
as other family members.
And this was around 2003.
So they said, hey, if you dothese particular jobs, where do you
think you're going to end up?
And I said, oh, okay.
I pick up what you're putting down.
(08:47):
So with the job, what job,first and foremost, what job did
you have in the Air Force andare you doing the job that you had?
Yeah, so the job I had in theAir Force, it came out as a basic
still photographer.
So I was a photographer.
And then fast forward, yearslater, we merged to another career
field, became a photojournalist.
(09:09):
After photo, we merged intopublic affairs.
So if you think about anythingthat your local news station is doing,
we did that and more.
So now this brings up someinteresting side things.
Number one, as a priormilitary guy too, I didn't know that
photography was an option.
Oh yeah, it would have done.
Signed up for that one anyway.
(09:29):
That's.
I'll stop being salty there,but so photography, photojournalism,
public affairs, clothing line.
Yeah, yeah.
Or even the leadership brand.
That's an arc.
That doesn't.
Doesn't compute.
Well, so tell me the journeyto that.
Yeah, man, absolutely.
So with respect to my careerfield, I always felt I was one of
(09:53):
the anomalies.
Right.
So my career field ispredominantly female, predominantly
Caucasian.
And it is, it can be very selfcentered in a way.
Right.
Like it's about you, aboutyour articles, your photos, your
(10:14):
videos, all these things.
You communicating with senior leaders.
And while that's important ina way, I always felt drawn to helping
others.
Right.
Communicating with others,being the bridge.
And really before it wasreally before the time that, that
we have right now where peopleare identifying it as emotional intelligence.
(10:36):
I always worked in the factthat I need to know about the person
I'm working with.
Right.
I need to be able to help them.
How can I help them?
So that's what started thiswhole leadership journey.
When I reflect on my careerand I was transitioning out the military,
I said, what can I do to stillbe who I am, right.
And bring my skills, myknowledge, my experience to the workforce.
(11:00):
And then with the clothingline, I felt like it was birth way
back when I was living in thedorms in Alaska and pressing T shirts
in.
In the dorm, Christian Tshirts, things that kind of stand
out.
And I, I began doing that andthen I.
There was a season where I stopped.
I got married, had kids andall that.
And then I felt it was time tobring it back.
(11:20):
And that's what I did duringthe pandemic.
So that's where I'm at now.
And I'm very excited for whatthe future holds with both of those
companies.
Absolutely.
Same here.
And so this, the reallyinteresting part is, so you chose
to help people throughleadership development.
Why leadership development?
And as a career leadershipdevelopment guy, I've been doing
(11:42):
it for about a little over 20 years.
Like, why that?
As opposed to social work oreven pastoring or something like
that.
But leadership development's awhole other.
Why that, right?
Yeah, exactly.
So I feel like you can do allof those that you just mentioned,
right?
They're all important.
They all have their niche.
(12:03):
But what I found is thatpeople may not read their Bible,
right?
But you may be the only Biblethey read.
So whether you're in themarketplace, you're in the church
setting, the pews, or thecongregation, like you need to represent
Christ.
So we need Christ out there inthe marketplace.
Right.
Other people need to know thatthere is.
(12:25):
I'm sorry, there are peoplewith integrity, there are people
with values.
There are people that careabout other things in the bottom
line.
Right.
So care about their soul, careabout their ego, emotions and how
they are understanding and howthey're communicating.
So I wanted to do that and bea bridge because I felt I can be
an extension and arepresentation of a local church
(12:49):
in the business sector.
And again, no shade to pastorsor anything like that.
They definitely hold a specialplace in my heart for a lot of reasons.
But I also felt like I couldbe the bridge, right?
Communicating with the churchmeeting, also communicating with
the business world and beingable to draw the two together.
So in your leadershipdevelopment, I'm, I'm fascinated
(13:11):
now with the line of thinking here.
So with leadershipdevelopment, do you specifically
focus in a niche or do youfocus just in general?
Like, where is your littlelike, line in the sand that you drew
for, for your audience?
Yes.
So we're growing it as we speak.
And the goal and idea is totarget minority owned businesses,
(13:33):
small to medium sizedbusinesses, providing them with leadership
development.
So leadership lessons thatI've learned through my faith, through
my service in the Air Force,and just my upbringing, principles
and concepts, and apply it to business.
So where do you find?
Let's just talk about theminority owned businesses.
I think that's a beautifulfocus to have.
(13:55):
What do you find is thebiggest struggles they're having?
Oh man, that's a good one.
I say two things I'm going totread lightly because I don't want
it to be misinterpreted sometimes.
One, it is just communication, right?
Communicating with youremployees, communicating with your
(14:15):
customers in a way that isrespectful but also in a way that's
professional.
Then the second one I think isunderstanding that you are a business,
right?
You're not doing it out theback of your trunk or on the side
of the road like you want tobe seen as a legitimate business.
(14:37):
Then there are things that youneed to do, there's ways that you
need to operate and present yourself.
And I think I pull a littlebit of that from a public affairs
side.
Being a strategiccommunicator, understanding branding
and social media and articlesand photos and how you represent,
so trying to communicate thatwhole package to a company.
(14:59):
So when you're working withthem on this stuff, do you work with
primarily brand new businesseslike or businesses that haven't started
but they want to start abusiness, Right.
So we're targeting businessesthat have already started and that
are trying to grow and maybeunderstand that man, in order to,
for me to grow, instead of melooking at say this product, right,
(15:23):
Maybe I should look internally.
How can I grow my people?
If I grow my people then verywell it could happen that my product
or my service will increase.
Let me grow them, let meinvest in them.
So working one on one or insmall team settings to help the business
understand things likecommunication, personality, things
(15:45):
of that nature.
So what is the biggestresistance you have faced when they're
trying, when you're trying tohelp them switch from a product based
to a people based man.
Everybody knows everything in,in the age of social media and the
Internet, everyone knows anything.
Oh yeah, I read that article,I read that book.
I understand.
But how do you apply it?
(16:05):
How do we extract somepractical application here?
Sometimes even as a parent, Imay say one thing to a child.
They don't listen.
But if their teacher says it adifferent way, they may hold on to
it.
So I'm not really sayinganything that they don't know already.
I'm just putting it out therein a different way so they're like,
(16:29):
oh, I didn't think about it inthat way.
So a lot of times they mightsay I don't like Susie.
Susie is getting on My nerves.
She's terrible.
I want to fire her.
Is Susie really the problem?
Yeah, Susie's problem.
Could it be your communicationwith Susie, how you communicate?
Could your timing be off?
(16:49):
Bottom line is this.
I understand it, but could youcommunicate that differently?
Why are you having thatconversation via text message and
not in person?
I love that.
So all these differentelements of emotional intelligence
and then just understandingpractical applications of these big
principles.
Hey, let's break it down.
(17:11):
And being resilient, which I'ma fan of that word, but I'm also
a growing fan of endurance.
I think we need to build endurance.
Oftentimes, from what I'veseen in my experience, resilience
gets a negative viewpoint.
Right, Right.
So you're not good enoughbecause you don't have enough resilience.
We need to build thatendurance muscle.
(17:32):
We need to work on it.
We need to put some practicalthings in place so then when hard
times come, we can build offwhat we've already started.
That's powerful.
That's very powerful and fun.
Fun fact.
I.
I love how we're drivingbecause I literally did a live this
week.
And if you guys who arelistening, head to the YouTube channel
at lead with Jim.
Number one on it was like 10reasons why you're not growing.
(17:54):
Number one was you're a knowit all.
That was like legit.
First one, like number one.
So if we man, will the know itall, we could start growing again.
AB so with all this, you're inthese businesses, you're helping
them shift, you're doing these things.
Lots of resistance on some things.
What are like a frameworkyou've developed to really get people
to accept this because it'shard to accept that they may be at
(18:17):
fault.
Absolutely.
So I, I'll share with you youraudience, man.
It's really something that Idiscovered and developed first in
my family, and I share thiswith my kids all the time.
Three L's, I, I come from anathletic background.
Right.
So playing sports, growing up,playing sports in the military.
(18:38):
Right.
We want to get those dubs orthose W's, those wins.
We hate those L's, Right.
We hate the losses.
But I think three L's that youneed to take every single day to
make you better in a three are.
Three Ls are listen, learn and lead.
If you listen more, right,then you can know how to lead.
(19:00):
And then listening, you'relearning what's working, what's not
working.
And then therefore, you canlead a whole lot better.
Because one thing that Idiscovered through a Very good friend
of mine, and I will shout him out.
Drew Carson, he taught me this.
He said, learn to inter.
Sorry, let me repeat that.
(19:21):
He taught me to learn tointerrogate your assumptions and
not interrogate people.
I love that.
I love that.
Yay.
If you're gonna quotesomebody, gotta quote them, right?
Because they know they'regonna be listening.
Yeah, absolutely.
No, that's great.
Learn to interrogate yourassumptions, not people.
I think that's a beautifulstatement, man.
That's powerful.
And to you guys who arelistening, make sure that you take
(19:44):
hold of that particular statement.
In general, if we spent moretime interrogating ourselves than
we do judging others, oh, my gosh.
Could.
How much growth could we have?
Yeah.
When we.
As we come down towards theend of the episode, as we come down
ToWards this, there's three things.
Ask number one, how do peoplefind you?
Yes, I'm on LinkedIn.
You can just search AnthonyNelson Jr.
I'm on LinkedIn.
(20:05):
Post up there pretty frequently.
The company has an Instagrampage, cultivate network leadership.
And a Facebook page, cultivatenetwork leadership as well.
Awesome.
And for you listeners, we willhave that in the show notes.
All of those links make itsuper easy to just click and go to
make sure to connect with them.
(20:25):
So the.
This is the part of thesegment as we shut down where we
call hashtag wisdom bomb.
If you follow me on Lead withJim, we.
And you've dropped a lot ofwisdom bombs through a lot through
this episode already.
Oh, we do this because I'vebeen doing this since, I think, 2019,
where I do a daily wisdom bombfor people.
It's a portable truth.
A truth people can take andapply to their life.
What is one portable truth,one hashtag wisdom bomb that you
(20:48):
would leave with the audience.
Man, you put me on the spot.
I.
I need a.
A second or two to think aboutthis one.
Leave the audience withsomething good, man.
I already gave you three L's.
That was, that was pretty good.
Let's see, what would I leavethe audience with?
I leave the audience withthis, which through my conversations
with a pastor of mine that Isat under for 10 years, Abraham Chin
(21:13):
Jr.
He used to always tell us tobe teachable, coachable and non defensive,
Right?
So if you want to grow in anyarea of your life, any relationships,
anything, you got to be teachable.
Realize that you don't know it all.
What you know is valuable.
What you know is important,but you don't know it all, right?
(21:35):
So be teachable.
Also be correctable.
Understand that you could havea portion of the truth, but not a
whole truth.
You can have a portion of theequation, but not the whole equation.
Right?
So be teachable, correctable.
And the last one is to be nondefensive, right?
So the reality is we choose tobe offensive.
(21:59):
This person called me, thisname, this, this company is doing
this.
We choose to be offensive.
So make the conscious effortto be non defensive.
Try to see things outside ofyourself so that you can have a better
perspective on what's really happening.
Powerful.
See you elevated the three Ls.
(22:20):
We got the dub, man.
We got the dub.
We elevated it.
Good job.
Let's go.
That's it, man.
So you guys, for you guys whoare here on Grace and the Grind,
we appreciate you listening inand checking out the episodes and
with my guests.
We're so grateful for Anthonyto be here today.
Sir, thank you for having thisconversation and for all you guys.
Remember, you're we're here.
We exist in Grace in the Grindto help you, actually, not just to
(22:42):
help you, but to encourage, toequip and to empower you to do all
that God has created you to do.
So make sure, you know, hitall the things.
Share this out and then gocheck some of the other episodes
out because we always love toengage with you.
And if you have any ideas orthoughts on any other episodes that
you might like to hear, let meknow in one of the comments on the
place that you heard this.
With that being said, we loveyou and we'll talk to you on the
(23:04):
next.
This has been Grace in the Grind.
Whether you're a Christianleader looking for guidance or an
entrepreneur seekinginspiration, it's Jim's passion to
equip and encourage you.
Make sure to check out Jim'ssolo episodes where he shares practical
leadership insights groundedin a biblical perspective.
We hope you've enjoyed the show.
(23:26):
If you did, make sure to likerate and review and we'll be back
soon.
But in the meantime, find uson social media eadwithjim and you
can also hit the website at www.leadwithjim.com.
take care of your yourself andwe'll see you next time on Grace
(23:46):
in the Grind.
Host
Jim Burgoon
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