Rebels to redemption: Shannon Althouse Pt.2

Ex Rebels bikie Shannon Althouse was sentenced to 10.5 years for attempted murder. Behind bars, tensions were high and violent fights were imminent. But when he was given a book about Buddhism, it changed his entire mindset. Althouse sits down with Gary Jubelin to share what prison was like, how he found his new purpose and why being released from prison two years ago was the scariest moment of his life.  

 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.
Detective sy aside of life the average person is never
exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop.
For twenty five of those years I was catching killers.
That's what I did for a living. I was a
homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead,
I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.

(00:23):
The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories
from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw
and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some
of the content and language might be confronting. That's because
no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.
Join me now as I take you into this world.

(00:46):
This is part two of my chat with Shannon Oldthouse,
former violent BIKI prisoner and meth addict. In part two,
we talk about his time in prison for a tempt
murder and his own redemption from outlaw to a person
who is making a difference in young fellas away from
the life he lived. This was a powerful conversation. Have
a listen. It might just change your perspective about Shannon. Shannon,

(01:10):
welcome back. We left you at the end of part
one and you explained the situation in which that you
were locked up. You got the sentence for ten years.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
Yeah, for ten and a half.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
Yeah, ten and a half years. At the start of
part one, we showed that assault that you committed when
you were in prison. That was pretty early in your sentence,
your ten year stint, wasn't it.

Speaker 2 (01:31):
Yeah, Yeah, that was in the first year, first half months.

Speaker 1 (01:34):
And what was the game? What we didn't talk about
it when I played the video. What was what started that?

Speaker 3 (01:41):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:41):
Yes, when he first came in.

Speaker 3 (01:43):
I remember twenty sixteen and twenty sixteen he first came
in and was all in Max block together, and he
used to walk laps with us and drink coffees and
stuff with us and tell us he's gangster life stories
and stuff like that, and you know, like he'd done
time in Yatler and South Australia, and I was saying, no,
that's a hard prison, you know, it must be must
be right, it must be a bit of a goal,

(02:04):
you know. And yeah, he was walking up for weeks
and weeks and weeks, and then he ended up getting bail.
When he got bail, one thing I didn't realize is
that he was good friends with the fellow who ran
me over and tried killing me. Right, so he started
going around spreading rumors that definitely didn't happen. Well, that's
not going to happen, you know what I mean. He
ended up he ended up doing a drug run and

(02:25):
one of his mates, his best mates, got done with
a heap of weed and gave him up. Said, look,
I'll give my mate up. I still on a drug run,
just coming down from Melbourne with some methamphetamine and you know,
just to get me off these charges. So as he's
done that, old mates come through, got done with the
methamphetamine that he had, and then he's gone informant on
he's drunk drug syndicate boss as well.

Speaker 2 (02:47):
And then that went all over.

Speaker 3 (02:49):
The anti news and stuff like that, and that just
struck a nerve, you know, really upset me.

Speaker 1 (02:56):
And so that was what was going through your mind.
And then the jaile world that you're living in, the
only way to deal with that is jail justice, and
that was jail jail justice.

Speaker 3 (03:06):
Yeah, yeah, well that's that's that's the only way I
could see it, especially because like everyone in jail, especially
all the hard. Lads all knew about it, you know,
knew what he was doing or knew what he was
saying about me, and so.

Speaker 1 (03:16):
It was making you look weak.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:18):
If I didn't do anything, then definitely one hundred percent,
you know, like they definitely would have respected me.

Speaker 1 (03:23):
So you got another four years for that, Yeah, I
got an extra four years that concurrent with your two
years were concurrent and so too on the bottom and
two on the top. Okay, So the way you're going there,
because that's early in your sence, you keep up that
type of behavior you might see the outside of the prison.

Speaker 3 (03:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
Yeah, Well I've I had a few few actual like
big prison prison fights inside still to this day, when
the correctional officers trained and rookies, they used two of
my fights in prison as a in the training, just
to show you how quick things can escalate, just in
the prison.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
Not showing it's not showing your technique.

Speaker 2 (03:59):
Or yeah, just showing you how how quick like somebody could.

Speaker 1 (04:02):
Change and how how explosive it can be.

Speaker 3 (04:05):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, and just you know, like so
you know, like it's that was the first eighteen months
two years that I was in jail, you know, it
was just yeah, things were was was all trapped in
maximum security men, I feel feel the young fellows and
all that, and anybody that came in that was obviously
you know, the child sex offender, you know, or any
sex offender or an informant or a give up or

(04:25):
any violence against crime, crime against women and children. You know,
it was they got got you know what I mean.
And that's just how it was.

Speaker 1 (04:32):
And that that was when you talked in part one
about being on edge the whole time and yeah, always
being alert and ready to go that. Yeah, they're using
you as a demonstration of how explosive prison can be.

Speaker 3 (04:45):
Yeah, yeah, definitely, and you know, like it especially maximum security,
like you just a lot of people don't understand every
single person in that in that little sector. You know,
like when you're getting unlocked, everyone's on edge and everyone's angry,
everyone's got something to prove, and there's a lot of
people that they're just mentally unstable.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
You know.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
If they get to have a ship phone call with
their misses, all.

Speaker 1 (05:05):
They're going to take it out and something yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (05:07):
You know, or if you made if you made too
much noise too early in the morning. You know what
I mean, he just kick off, like I've seen people
get half killed for that.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
You know. Were you ever on the receiving end?

Speaker 2 (05:17):
Never? Not once? Yeah? Yeah, thank god?

Speaker 1 (05:20):
But that was okay. So I'm getting the sense of
it that you carried your carriage yourself well in prison,
in that amongst in mates. Yeah, what was the catalyst
that thought, Okay, I don't want to be this person,
I've got the term of life around What how did
that come about? Because what you describing there? Yeah, I
can look after myself. Yeah, I'll deal out justice. I

(05:41):
don't get got it's to me, it's looking like it's
just going to be You're going to come out unrepentant
and more dangerous than when you went in. What changed it.

Speaker 3 (05:51):
Was when like because it was a target obviously by
the offices and stuff like that, and they just didn't
want to meet a progress. They always messed with my
I was always try to get on my nerves, trying
to get me to strike and do stupid things, you
know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (06:05):
So I was always I was always angry, Like there.

Speaker 3 (06:07):
Was every single time, like every day they came out
Max block and then I was always down the back cell,
separate confinement. You know, so twenty three hour lockdown, you know,
like I'd let you out for one phone call, fifteen
minute phone call, that's it, and then you're back in.
So after doing all that time down there, you know,
like I had a mate, I made a mine because
I had no TV nothing, and I was and I
hated reading, like I just absolutely hated. So I tried

(06:27):
reading that many books, the buile everything at that boob.
After a few pages, it's gone. And to get on
special meals, like you know, see they got like these
good cooks in the prison, and so the prison meals
was shit. But if you got on a special meal,
you'd be on like mean, it's like wickedest diet meal,
you know. And everyone's like, oh, you need to get
on the special meals.

Speaker 1 (06:47):
You know.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
I was like, how do you get on that?

Speaker 3 (06:48):
And they're like, nah, I told them I'm Muslim, you know,
it's a Neil process, no ham you know, but they
were I was like, yeah, well, I'm not Muslim.

Speaker 2 (06:54):
I can't say that, you know. So I said, I'm
going to tell them I'm Buddhist. So I went and
told him I was Buddhist.

Speaker 3 (06:58):
You know, re filled out a request for him and said, oh,
look my religions and Buddhism in stuff like that. And
then it worked, you know, so then they approved it,
and then they started giving me these like mad meals.
And then it's one young fellow he was mad as
like just punch on every day with anybody. He thought like,
he's like, oh, my brother, you know, you know you
always told me that your.

Speaker 2 (07:18):
Buddhist is a book. Read this because he reads all.

Speaker 3 (07:20):
The time, you know, And he passed this book on
Budhism through the latch and I was thinking, yeah, no worries,
thank you, my brother. And I put it on the table,
you know, I left it there for about two days.
But every day every day he's like, you read that book, kit,
it's good. And I was like, okay, you started reading it? Yeah,
and I thought, hang on, I said, this Blake's pretty
switched on, this young fellow, you know, like and if
he thinks, if he catches me out lying line to him.

Speaker 1 (07:40):
It's going to be on. You know.

Speaker 3 (07:42):
I said, I'm better start reading this book in case
he starts asking me questions. So I opened it. Yeah,
and I started reading this book, you know, on Buddha,
and I never put it down I read it to
to I finished it, and you know it's by the
time I got released from prison, I read every single
book in Alice Springs pre Corrections and Darwin on Buddhism,
arm Zen and mindfulness. And but what actually specifically changed

(08:07):
my mindset and stuff like that was one that assault too,
and I could you know, I've got an next four
years and all that, and too the fact that I
was in there for a crime I didn't commit.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
So I'm losing all those years, you know, and back.
And then I was thinking, right, I.

Speaker 3 (08:20):
Could get life, I could lose my life for this
crime I didn't commit. You know what am I going
to What's what am I going to achieve? You know
what I'm going to get out of this absolutely nothing,
you know, except for what I've got a gangster on
in jail so now, and I'm going to start changing
my life, you know. And then I sat there and
I was just in my in my room, just contemplating
to myself, thinking about it hard, you know, and I thought, Bob,
and just the light bulb just switched on and I said, no, no,

(08:41):
I'm going to start helping helping his young ladies. Because
there was a Royal Commission into the Youth Justice in.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
Don Dale in Darwin.

Speaker 3 (08:49):
I remember so and all the young fellows they started
turning eighteen now and started coming into the maximum security
and when they were turning eighty in coming to maximum security,
some of them couldn't read it right and when so
I was grabbing it their briefs and that and reading
it for them and helping them out. And some of
the stuff I read, you know, it was pretty disgusting.
So I thought, now I'm going to help these help
these young lads, you know, And I.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
Started doing that.

Speaker 3 (09:10):
So I started sitting there and helping them with their
cort proceedings and started helping them get through whatever, you know,
their conversation payouts and you know, you own guiding them
as best I can through the system, through the adult
adult system because I was different to the duties as well.
And then yeah, I just got got a real passion
for it too, you know, and I thought, hey, I
can do this on the outside, you know, because they

(09:31):
all started listening to me, and Dan had a lot
of respect for me as well.

Speaker 1 (09:34):
Did you find you found that sort of you got
something from that, like instead of being the tough guy
here you are being the teacher and guiding people and
all that was that personally you felt like it was
something worthwhile.

Speaker 3 (09:47):
Yeah yeah, no, definitely, like from where I was to
like the respect was I was getting from being the
tough guy to the respect I was.

Speaker 2 (09:56):
Getting from helping people.

Speaker 3 (09:58):
It was just like as a backflip and completely different, a
complete opposite kind of a respect, you know what I mean.
So so that's when I started just deciding to help them.
I thought no, and I made a promise to myself.
I remember in the back cells, the officers come down
and I a t the ninja turd and they're like,
all right, offhouse, put your hands for the latch.

Speaker 2 (10:15):
You know, we're going you got a visit.

Speaker 3 (10:17):
I was like, oh yeah, I put my hand through
the latch and then they escorted me to the visit
area and I was like, oh yeah, and then we dropped.
We dropped one another prisoner off there too, for Max book,
and I was like, what about me, I've got a visit?
Like yeah, your visits in reception and that's where the
detectives come to visit. Yeah, you know, so here we
got more charges or something, you know, So then they've
scored me to a reception and I was like, oh,

(10:39):
where are they know, the detectives and then he's like, no,
you know, there's no detectives waiting for you here, and
then he like made a gesture like an aeroplane, you know.
And I was thinking, Oh, I'm going to Alice Springs,
you know, and they're like yeah. I thought this is
going to be hectic, you know. So because I've never
been Alice, I didn't know anyone in Alice, even though
all my.

Speaker 1 (10:57):
Face is a prison in Alice, yeah.

Speaker 3 (11:00):
And even all my family and that like majority of
my family from Alice Springs, and I thought, nah, no,
this is next level, you know. So then I waited
there and it was it was it's a bit over overboard,
like how they I remember still remember, like I was
freaking out because they had like TRG come police like
guns and stuff, hats, guards like they like yeah, like
they chucked me shackles and all this, and then you know,

(11:22):
I only weigh like Adie kilo, you know, and they
got me on this airport escort and they've taken me
from a Holtz prison and down to down down airport
and they're floating and like coppers a block and there's
traffic off, so we can go straight through the lights
and yeah, they're all masked up, and yeah, I was
like I thought, I thought, oh, there must be like
seats or something going on around here. And then the
next light coming through and there's more than I was like,

(11:43):
hang on. And then when we pulled into the airport,
like they blocked all the roads off, so then like
the entourage can just like police escort and everything.

Speaker 2 (11:51):
Is this for me? And ibously like yeah, I was like,
this is a joke, you know.

Speaker 3 (11:55):
And they had a police plane one of the they
had an actual they chucked me on a bloody on
the government police play flew me down there by myself
to Alice Springs.

Speaker 1 (12:02):
Right, Okay, why they transfer.

Speaker 3 (12:05):
They reckonize a security risk because because of all the
fighting and I was punching on with everybody.

Speaker 1 (12:11):
And Jesus, mate, you get kicked out by your yangs,
you get kicked out of the prisons. We're going to
find the place. I want to continue on. But I'm
just curious. I've never heard someone learn about Buddhism because
they were afraid to get into trouble, because they weren't
reading a book, because they lied about being a Buddhist
to get a better meal. That's an out there story.

(12:34):
But did you take away stuff from all the reading
that you got from the books.

Speaker 3 (12:38):
Yeah, well this is where it gets interesting. When I
got to Alae Springs, what I read in those books
related to everything, like how the mind works, how you
how like your everything, your emotions.

Speaker 2 (12:49):
You know, it just tells you.

Speaker 3 (12:50):
It just gave you examples how to tap into your
mind or your different feelings, your anger, your anxiety, your
depression and all that. And then it comes up with
scenarios on how to like instead of when they first happened,
instead of like reacting this way, don't react at all
as much as you want to sit back and wait
till you calm down and then make a decision and
try going this way. And then when I got Taylor Springs,

(13:12):
I made us like in my head, I was like,
you know what, when I get here, for my entire sentence,
I'm going to get one hundred percent clean record in
Alice Springs. I'm not going to do one fight. I'm
not going to have one fight. I'm not going to
have one misconduct, not one argument. You know, I'm just
going to get through this sentence with a clean slate,
and if I can't do that, then I'm definitely when
I get out of prison, there's no way in the

(13:34):
world I'll be able to handle it outside of jail.

Speaker 1 (13:36):
You know. Okay, so you're testing yourself.

Speaker 3 (13:38):
Yeah, yeah, So as soon as I landed, I remember, yeah,
they threw me in Max Block in Alice Springs and
that was day one of testing everything, you know, because
I was still a very angry, angry follow But then
I started putting those practices that I was reading in
those books in the place, when I was put in
situations every day in that place, and before you knew it,
like six twelve eighty months, two and a half years later,

(14:00):
like I actually trained myself to like you'd feel anxiety,
like you'd feel your senses would heightened, Like if there
was tension there, you get a little bit tense. But
from when I was in Darwin, from when I first
came in, it was tense. And then I'll put it
on them. You know what, you've got a fucking problem,
or you're staring at something and you never go one,
let's go in the room, you know, to looking at

(14:20):
it things and it's like that's just you're just thinking
it and feeling it, but it's not there's nothing in it,
you know, because yeah, it just got to the point
where it just didn't even bother me in the end,
and even the officers when they're trying to make my
life hard in prison, and oh, well, you know, and
I just walk off with it. Before i'd be really
argumentive and try and prove them wrong.

Speaker 1 (14:37):
You know, simple but powerful message, isn't it. Like, And
I've heard that before, and though I tried to check
myself on it. Sometimes, don't react, stop think and then
take your time before you Yeah, you buy into something, Yeah,
a simple message, and you, in the life that you've lived,
how many times would that saved you if you adopted

(14:58):
that earlier? Every time stopped think what are you going
to do? I'm going to yeah?

Speaker 2 (15:03):
Yeah, And for months I thought this bullshit.

Speaker 3 (15:05):
You know, it's not working. It's not working. It's not working.
But but I didn't realize it.

Speaker 2 (15:09):
It works.

Speaker 3 (15:09):
Just it's just every time that you practice it, it
just you get better, just that little bit every single time,
and to the point where you'll get it to a
level where fire out like I was walking in the
situations like I remember one time we had like forty
prisoners rounding up trying to mob one of my nephews.
And my nephew come up to me, you know, and
he's like, I think all these fellows are looking at us,

(15:31):
you know, because me and my nephew was having a
conversation in the dorm and one of the other prisoners misheard,
but we'll talk eavesdropping and thought we put the other
ones on the dog. So he's gone out and told
the block, the whole block. They're like, oh, let's let's
get these day and dogs, you know, like that's how
they were, you know. And then my neph came up
to me and he's like, and I said, now you
just paranoid, you know that this is how it was,
Like this how I built myself. You know, you're just paranoid.

(15:52):
And I was all steering to it. I was like, nah,
I said, that's just how they are, you know. And
then yeah, one of my mates come over like, way,
what you what was you more talking about in there?
Early on, you know, one of the locals.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
That I'm good friends with.

Speaker 3 (16:01):
I was like, no, no, this is We're just having
a conversation about this, this, this and this and oh,
these my be are saying that you put them on
the dogs.

Speaker 2 (16:07):
And then I was like, nah, nas, I will tell
them to come out here and then come in the room,
you know. And I took him and we went in
the room and we just had just a normal conversation.

Speaker 1 (16:16):
So in that situation, the old you would have gone, well, okay,
if it's that someone will get get in first.

Speaker 3 (16:23):
Yeah, they old me I would have just walked straight
up to the first one of them and just punched
him straight in the face.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
You know.

Speaker 2 (16:26):
I would have been on like yeah.

Speaker 3 (16:28):
But this time I was like, oh, tell him, then
let's go in the room. We'll just have a chat,
you know. Own they all, I reckon. There's about ten
eleven of them came in that room and we said
what's like, what's the go you know, And they're like,
oh no, we heard that you mob were putting us
on dogs. And I was like no, no, no, no, I
said you told you this?

Speaker 2 (16:45):
Oh no, no, I said, who told you this?

Speaker 3 (16:46):
They're like, oh, that follow over there, I said, tell
him coming in and I said, I said, what makes
you think that me and my nephew here we're calling
you mob dogs? Oh no, no, no, I said, you're
just a troublemaker. I said, you my be here. I said,
you shouldn't be listening to him. I said, he calls
drumas in this prison all I said you might be.
I said, I've done years and we're years here in
Alice Springs. I said, you know the situation. You knows
what I'm like, like just coming over a yarn. You
don't come out of a chat, you know. And I

(17:07):
stopped a few more beings and that happened inside of
ALUs because of that.

Speaker 1 (17:10):
Yeah, well it's really powerful the way you've Yeah, you're
talking about your evolution when you're inside. When did you leave.

Speaker 2 (17:23):
The rebels October twenty sixteen, okay, yeah, when when you're inside?

Speaker 3 (17:27):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (17:27):
Yeah, pretty much.

Speaker 3 (17:28):
A soon as I went in, sat back, had a
good long, hard think about my life and where I
was heading it, you know, to be honest, like, not
one member come visited me.

Speaker 2 (17:38):
I didn't get a letter from any.

Speaker 3 (17:39):
Of them, stuff like that, So I just thought, why
would I want to stick around? You know, I mean
like catches see you later. And then I was out,
you know, So it was that easy.

Speaker 1 (17:47):
Okay, off the drugs at this stage? Was that another
part of it. Did you get off the get off.

Speaker 3 (17:51):
The Yeah, I've been clean nine years now, right, Yeah,
so October next you'll be ten years.

Speaker 1 (17:55):
And that was that was part of the whole package
of turning your life around.

Speaker 2 (17:58):
Yeah, clean and sober.

Speaker 1 (17:59):
Yeah. Did when you're in there being the model model prisoner,
did you get opportunities to study or do anything in
there or breathing.

Speaker 3 (18:08):
Or I didn't have any any of that. But what
I see this is this is another one where I
sat because I told everybody from day one, and you
watch this, I'm going to get out.

Speaker 2 (18:14):
I'm going to be doing podcasts.

Speaker 3 (18:16):
I'm going to be on the usual time. I'm going
to start looking after these kits. I'm going to start,
you know, and become famous, I said. And you know,
I'm not going to be involved in all that gangs
of stuff or anything of that.

Speaker 2 (18:24):
I said.

Speaker 3 (18:24):
You know what I'm going to I can see myself
doing good. You don't helping people, you know, That's that's
what I want to do. That's where my passion is,
and that's where I'm going to be walking as soon as.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
I get out of the jail.

Speaker 3 (18:32):
You watch the first day I get out of this place,
I'm not going to go back to my rehab or
whatever about that and sit back and do what everybody
else does, you know, to get back into the ship
and straight back into jail.

Speaker 1 (18:42):
You know, did you have people trying to drag you down?
Because sometimes because someone changes like that makes them feel
bad about themselves. Did you have to fight against that or.

Speaker 3 (18:51):
Yeah, yeah, understand, like I've had. I've had old brothers
and old mates and stuff like even mates that I
met in jail that were good, good in jail, try
and bring me out.

Speaker 2 (18:58):
Oh brother, let's go to the pub. Let's do this.
I said, I don't drink. I will just come.

Speaker 3 (19:03):
And I said, now, how about you get sober? I said,
you want to come, We'll catch up, go to a
gym session, or I'll take you to lunch. We'll go
somewhere and have lunch. You know, Oh no, no stuff that.
And I said, well, why would I want to come
to drink? I said, why would I want to come
to a pub when I don't drink with you? And
what you get drunk and be a slop?

Speaker 1 (19:19):
You know, if you're not drinking. There's nothing more boring
than watching people drink?

Speaker 2 (19:22):
Is it? Hanging? All over you and stuff like that,
you know.

Speaker 3 (19:26):
So I just thought, you know, I've been plenty of
situations and it was hard to had to cut of
feel my good mates off, you know, because they didn't
want to change their lives.

Speaker 2 (19:33):
They still wanted to continue to do what they're doing.

Speaker 3 (19:35):
So I'd make a decision and do what was best
for myself and my life. And I told him, Straights,
I love you. You always be my brothers, no matter
what I said. But until you're willing to change your life,
clean your act up, sober up, get off the drugs,
and you want to be a father to your children,
a family man to your family, I said, I'll help

(19:56):
you any any day of the week. I said, but
until you make that decision, I said, we're on different paths,
We're on different journeys. I'm going this way, you're going
that way.

Speaker 2 (20:04):
I said. You know, that's how it's just got to be.

Speaker 1 (20:06):
Yeah, Okay, you've got your dreams and aspirations when you're
in there and you're working towards it within yourself and
changing your outlook on the way you react to things.
What plans did you have when you were going to
be released from prison?

Speaker 3 (20:20):
Yeah? So basically in my head, I thought, I said
straight out like I'm going to get out, like I'm
going to get in contact with all these organizations in
Alice Springs because I knew I was getting proll to Alice
that do stuff for troubled kids and troubled youth or
even just anybody, like even troubled adults, you know, and
just have a yarm with them, tell them my story

(20:40):
and see if you know, like I could go in
there and have a chat to the people that are
in there and have a talk or and maybe help
them or you know, like and make it do a
regular thing and continue on with my train because I
was coaching inside of prison as well, so I was
running training programs and like training sessions and that like
them sometimes we get thirty to forty prisoners even from
warring communities and train with.

Speaker 1 (21:00):
Us just a physical training.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (21:02):
Yeah, so it was just yeah, I was just like
and the officer has seeing that, and they're like like
this prison usually fis with that prison all the time,
like they're from different warring families, you know. And then
they called me up to them one day and they're like,
how did you get these more training like together? Like
we've never seen it before. They just like the style
of training that I do, you know, like, and they
asked if I could come train, if they could come train,
I said yeah, like obviously not at the same time,

(21:23):
I said yeah, yeah, I said, it don't bring you
any bullshit.

Speaker 2 (21:26):
You know, you won't be training with us again.

Speaker 1 (21:27):
You know it's good for the mental health, isn't it?
The training to that? Yeah? Self esteem? And yeah, I
just I don't think I can ever stay that How
important of this if one hundred look after themselves physically? Yeah,
so you had that sort of in your back pocket
training and all that. So you get release, release from prison,
just tell us what it felt like first of all

(21:49):
being released and then what what you did.

Speaker 2 (21:51):
Yeah, well, to be honest, he was the scariest feeling
over out in my life. Like it was normal. It's
probably just as just as like bad and and like
you know it's good. But I had that much anxiety
and that much I'll still that afraid of being released.
It's just as much as I was getting locked up.

Speaker 1 (22:08):
Afraid of yourself, afraid of what.

Speaker 3 (22:10):
I'm just afraid of, Like, I don't know I could
be anything like or even like I said, more coppers
out there waiting for me, locking me back up, against
throwing me back and you know, I mean stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (22:21):
So you just you.

Speaker 3 (22:21):
Didn't know where you're going, You didn't know who who's
going to help. You didn't know the path that you
didn't know how easy, but you knew it was going
to be hard to you know, can I do it?
You know, like you know so and even all your
old associates and your mates, you know what I mean,
You're like, right, look what if they ask me? You know,
I don't want to be rude, because you know, some
of them that take offense to you saying that I'm
not going to catch up with you, and before you know,

(22:42):
you know that could.

Speaker 1 (22:43):
I've heard heard people get dragged back in because the
mate that they is called in the favor and they've
got caught up in the ship again.

Speaker 2 (22:50):
Yeah, yeah, and that happens quite often, you know.

Speaker 3 (22:53):
And I just thought, you know, like all right, you know,
what if you're put in a situation or anything like that,
you know, but I didn't know, like I thought I
was strong, you know, like I knew it, but I
didn't know if I hadn't been challenged like that yet
since I've been released, So I thought, if it happens,
this could really mess me up, you know what I mean,
you know, even me you're saying, you know, like you know,

(23:14):
like stuff that you know.

Speaker 1 (23:15):
So you went out there with a little bit of
trepidation and yeah, going OKAYI which way is it going
to go? Had the world changed?

Speaker 3 (23:22):
Yeah, yeah, it was pretty made Like even down down
down was massive.

Speaker 2 (23:28):
McDonald's was self serve.

Speaker 1 (23:31):
You know.

Speaker 3 (23:32):
I was used to walking up to a counter and pay,
you know, and I'm like standing around like what, like
what's everybody doing?

Speaker 1 (23:38):
The change was confusing enough being on the outside why
it was changing, So I can imagine.

Speaker 3 (23:42):
Now that's right, and you know what, to be honest,
like when I got out, I just got thrown out
on the street. No help, nothing like that, you know,
like help from the people that I asked for help,
but like they could only help me in what they
were employed to help me with, but their job roll
was you know. So yeah, I'd pretty much just feel
it all out for myself and for myself and yeah,

(24:03):
and just work and work hard, and especially being a
probably like doing a seven years and just been later,
you've got problem.

Speaker 1 (24:12):
Yeah, it's almost set up to fail.

Speaker 3 (24:16):
You know, And I actually see why a lot of
people do fail after that, Like just luckily that my
mindset was that that's set on my path where a
journey that I wanted to go is that I knew
that I could not fail.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
I knew straight out. I was like, yeah, no, no,
I can.

Speaker 1 (24:33):
I can see the commitment in your face that Okay,
this is a path I'm going. So what what did
you do when you got there?

Speaker 3 (24:40):
So when I got out, I went to a rehab there.
Da'sa owned a house. I already had a job lined up,
so I outsourced employment. While I was still in jail.
I got a mate who was friends with one of
the builders of his own company, and he's like, yep,
not tell him to come in, come see me. You know,
done everything like that, man, I like took for months
months before I got prole and outsourced everything, got everything,

(25:02):
got it all sorted, went to rehab, and then as
soon as I did that, I went into the gym,
signed up to the gym, went straight into a boxing
academy there and just asked, Hi, hit him up, you know, like, oh,
you know, like I just want to know if I
can do some training and you know, if you need
any volunteers, you know, like I'll be keen to volunteer
and help us out anyway I can, you know.

Speaker 2 (25:22):
And they're like, yeah, yeah, no worries.

Speaker 3 (25:24):
We'll see come down tomorrow and we'll see what and
what what gym was that R and a community academy.

Speaker 1 (25:31):
Okay, and how that? How that play it?

Speaker 3 (25:34):
Yeah? Yeah, Well, you know I went back and they've heard,
like the head coach that he's heard it from a
lot of paroles to plenty of times, you know, and
they've just stuffed up everything, like rocked up one session
and never come back, you know. But I rocked up,
and then the next night I rocked up, and then
the next night. Seven days a week, I was rocking it.
And then I started running the six am class there.

(25:55):
And so I was getting up from rehab, driving to their,
running the six am class, driving to work, working from
seven to four, driving back to boxing, opening it up,
and then getting when all the young lads and all
that would come, you know, made sure it's clean and that,
and that'd warm up, do some do some pad work
and stuff like that in the mag and then as
soon as soon as five thirty kick off. When would

(26:15):
all train together? You know, if I wasn't running a session,
was I was training with them?

Speaker 2 (26:19):
You know?

Speaker 1 (26:20):
So yeah, yeah, And what message were you giving the
young fellas?

Speaker 2 (26:23):
You know, just.

Speaker 3 (26:26):
Like starting the straight and narrow, you know, don't don't
get hooked on the drugs and that sort of laught.
I was thinking that this is gangs, So that's gangster,
you know what I mean, Like what you are doing now,
is that's what you want to be doing. Going to
boxing every day, you know what I mean, going to
school straight out of school, they're riding their pushbikes doing
boxing and then straight up for that they're going like
some of them even had jobs, you know, so I was,

(26:47):
you know, I was in school working and boxing full time.

Speaker 1 (26:50):
You know, people don't understand that, you know. I know
I'll get some pushback because I'm always talking boxing on
this because boxing on the podcast, Boxing is my thing.
You give kids discipline like that, and then in boxing
you see more than not more than anything, but you
see reward for effort. You don't get good unless you
put the effort in, and I think that's what points

(27:13):
people in the right direction. You get rewarded if you
put the effort in. So what you're telling me there,
like there's a lot of Yeah, we hear down here
in Sydney about the problems youth crime in the Northern
Territory and Queensland. There's problems down here as well, obviously,
but it's giving them some purpose, giving them some self
esteem and yeah, have you seen the changes in the

(27:33):
kids that you're working with?

Speaker 3 (27:35):
Yeah, well, I definitely see changes. And when I'm around
so I've seen these same kids like the ones you're
seeing all over the news, hanging out of stolen cars
with machetes and doing burnouts on the lawns and trying
to they're chasing they're chasing the cop cars.

Speaker 2 (27:47):
Yeah, it's not please aren't chasing them.

Speaker 3 (27:50):
They're actually turning around and he's a ten, eleven, twelve
thirty year old kids.

Speaker 1 (27:54):
I think that was shown the across the world, Like, yeah.

Speaker 3 (27:57):
And they're actually in the cop I remember one day,
I've seen this cop car flows straight past me and
then this car full of teens kids chasing them, and
they drove to the police station, had the compound gates open,
drove into the compound gates and got a clothes so
the kids couldn't drive through there and read them, you
know what I mean. Like, but those same kids, when
they see me, they come up and give me hugs
and knuckles and mister, can you shout us a feed?

(28:17):
Because the first day I got out, I still remember
this to today. I remember hearing about these three kids
and this and that, and I got out. I had nothing,
you know, when I went to jail. You know, I
thought the brothers that I did time for whatever, like
they would back me up and throw money in my caundle.
When I got out, I just done, you know, I
just done this thing here. I just done seven years.
And I didn't get out with nothing, you know, I
mean not even they didn't even have anything waiting for me,

(28:39):
you know what I mean. So when I got out,
I was just built what I have today, you know,
just off my own back. I still remember I drove
down to macas Are and other springs, and I've seen
about I was about no about ten, maybe ten to
fifteen kids on Pushwip's there standing at the front of makers.
And instantly I thought, oh, well, they're at the front
of a food food you know, they're just hungry, you know.
So I went through the ride through, and I pulled

(29:01):
up and I could see these people walking in, but
like anybody that gave them kind of grief or like
daggers or whatever like that, that they'll don't try and
intimidate them, you know.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
And then they was sitting there and they looked over
it me and I was like, wait, what are you young?
What are your young fellows doing? Like, oh I missed
a cool cool face, that's yeah. I was like, yeah, no,
he's hungry.

Speaker 3 (29:18):
And they're like, yeah, yeah, we're just waiting for family,
you know, in case our family drives through. Going to
ask and I buy us a feed, And I said,
I'll buy us a feed, but you've got to leave
after here. I said, dismal good people because I knew
the manager.

Speaker 2 (29:27):
And I'll go there all the time. The manager and
he's like, yeah, they are good people, you know.

Speaker 3 (29:31):
That was like, and he's like yeah, yeah, all right then.
So I went and shout them all feed, you know.
And then as I was about to jump in the
car and lead, they're like, oh, can you buy us?
Can you come down to the pedroal station and buy
us something? I was like, all right then, So I
drove in the pedroal station. And when I walked in,
all that was all they wanted was toys, you know,
so they're pulling toys.

Speaker 2 (29:48):
Off the rack and and funny and funny enough.

Speaker 3 (29:51):
Feels it was a like a cap gun, like a
police badge, and it's one of those toys, you know,
and I was thinking no, no, And then I paid
for it.

Speaker 2 (29:59):
All you know, they all took off.

Speaker 3 (30:02):
I bought them a few kind of surprises and that too,
And ever since then they've always respected me. You know,
they're always every time they see me, ala mister and
give me knuckles and need all these same kids, And
I asked him, I spumped intohim about a couple of
weeks later, I said, hey, what that can to surprise
that you?

Speaker 2 (30:16):
You know, I got you. What do you do with
that toy?

Speaker 3 (30:18):
And a couple of them like no, no, mister, we
gave it to our sister, you know, like, oh that's solid.

Speaker 1 (30:22):
Okay, Well that's Jesus like making the difference little acts
like that.

Speaker 2 (30:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:28):
Yeah, And the fact that they respect you, and maybe
it was meant to be with all the tattoos over
your face and all that, because I think the kids
will look at that they'll you've got their attention to
start with. Yeah, and if you're steering them in a
good direction. But yeah, well the youth crime up there,
what what do you think the way it could be fixed?
And that's a big question that a lot of people
have been thinking about. But where where do you reckon

(30:50):
the core of the problem is Yeah, I.

Speaker 3 (30:51):
Look to be honest, I honestly wouldn't have reckoned the
call the problems just with the adults that they're surrounding
them with.

Speaker 2 (30:58):
You know what I mean, Like for a private sale
of alcohol in.

Speaker 3 (31:03):
A community is like two hundred anywhere between could be
two hundred, two hundred and fifty dollars for a bottle
of Jim Beaman, I mean.

Speaker 2 (31:09):
Seven hundred meal bottle.

Speaker 3 (31:10):
Yeah, you know, so instead of these, instead of the
kids and all that getting fed with that money, the
adults their parents and they are going and buying you know,
like bottles and stuff like that and spending the food
money on that, and the kids got to go on
the street and fend for themselves and you know, fight
for themselves to get a feed and stuff like that,
and some of them they go back to jail juvis
because they get fed in that in thee you know

(31:32):
what I mean.

Speaker 1 (31:32):
Yeah, it's a sad said cycle, isn't it.

Speaker 2 (31:34):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (31:35):
How do you reckon you can make a difference? What
are the other stuff you've been doing? Like the boxing
that was what you got into initially. How long you've
been out for and.

Speaker 3 (31:43):
Now I've been out for nearly two and a half years. Yeah, yeah,
so January twenty twenty three I got out.

Speaker 1 (31:47):
Okay, what the other stuff are you doing?

Speaker 2 (31:49):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (31:49):
So basically all I do is, well, I've been invited
to a few forums and conferences and stuff like that
for the youth. A few programs that I've got coming up,
and ones that I pay for out of my own
pocket too, you know, like it's so I don't get
any funny and like this next one in September, you know,
like it's I had a few young lads and that
asked me if I could go up to a community
just out of Catherine and teach them how one I

(32:11):
stayed sober for nine years too, how I've left the club,
the gang life three, how how I'm still doing what
I'm doing today and how I got to do with
what I'm doing today and they want me and with
all the prison and all that I've done, you know,
they just want me to tell me teach them that
and then running through a training session in the afternoon
in the night, so you know, like I said, yeah, yeah,

(32:32):
no worries. And you know, it started off just just
me and a couple of the young lads, you know,
and then like now it's blown out, Like I've got
some really good people like wild Man, like Dame Duffey
from wild Man Adventures. He's agreed, he wants he's flat,
he's coming out. And I've got Ann Didness, comedian from
w A. You know, Shane O, Uncle SHANEO. He's agreed
to come along too. You know, a couple other big
names that.

Speaker 2 (32:51):
Again to pop up.

Speaker 3 (32:52):
And then we're going to go out there and just
run this like little program and stuff like that. And
it's not even a program, like it's just me going
there talking to them and then like we're going they're
going to teach us. I said, well how about you,
because I looked at all their photos on Instagram and
I've seen it all the hunting photo, all rangers and
that out there, I said, well, how about you just
take us out in your land. We'll go camping for
two three days, and you teach us about the land

(33:15):
culture and stuff like that, would take us fishing hunting,
I said, And when Arvo comes, I said, well, we'll
all get painted up. We'll go find a nice spot
in the floodplains, get all the boxing gloves and that out.
And I said, I've got my nephew up and down.
You know, it does a bit of boxing up there.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
I said.

Speaker 3 (33:29):
We'll run you through, you know, half an hour forty
five minute session every night that we're out there. And
then we'll go to sit down the fire while the
food's getting cooked and we'll have a yarn, and then
I'll teach you how I taught myself to be doing
the stuff that I'm doing today, and how about self
control and just living a much better life, you know
then living a drama free life, you know, so much

(33:49):
more enjoyable, that's for sure.

Speaker 1 (33:51):
I can see the Yeah, I can see the joy
in your face talking about it, your light up, talking
about making a difference like that and what you just described.
I'm just picturing that. That seems so cool. Yeah, it's
you know, them feeling a sense of worth taking you
out on their land and showing you their ways and
then you you give me back a little bit like that. Well,

(34:13):
you know, it's a ripple effect too, isn't it. You're
not going to not going to change the world, but
doing one thing if you can change one life. Yeah,
imagine if someone got hold of you early in your
life and steered you in the direction, gave you a
wake up call before you've done your ten years and yeah,
yeah and things.

Speaker 2 (34:32):
Now, that's that's that's one hundred percent.

Speaker 3 (34:33):
And you know, like I know, because it's because it's
difficult too, like you know, like trying to get to
this kid. Like I've gone to a couple of these
programs and stuff like that too, and they're just not interacting.
They just don't want to be there and things like that.

Speaker 1 (34:44):
You know.

Speaker 3 (34:44):
I've did visits to soul Bush soap bushes like a
pre release kind of pre prison for kids too. I
used to run every Friday, I run a boxing program
with them and just run through fitness fitness sessions and
that like every Friday, you know, for eighteen nearly two years,
you know. And so it's so the way I get
to it really is or get messages to everyone there

(35:05):
plus plus especially them, is TikTok, Instagram and Facebook, you know,
and it's just absolutely gone viral. A couple of videos
over that, you know, like and because I know that's bang.
As soon as they see like here all facetted up,
you know, ankle monitor bang instantly interested in what what
what look I've got to say, you know, and I'll
start watching the amount of messages and inboxes I get
from them wanting help and support, like and from follows

(35:29):
in jail that have gotten out and say from Perth
like I'm talking casualine and hate here yat.

Speaker 2 (35:34):
People just flat out like I don't even know. I'm
just hig brother, you know, my brothers.

Speaker 3 (35:37):
You know, I just got out of lock up and
casuine and your name's getting thrown around prison there, you know,
from all the Nunga lads, you know, all the all
the indigenous, like they will watch your reels and they
are like you're getting spoken about it and they want
to do what you're doing.

Speaker 2 (35:50):
You know, it's cool.

Speaker 1 (35:52):
Tell us how people can find it? How where where
can they find it? On social media? People listening to them?

Speaker 2 (35:56):
Ye yeah, it was just it's just my name and
they shatt an altouse.

Speaker 3 (35:59):
Yeah, so you know, just Google that and we'll type
that into the search box and yeah, they'll find it all.
And yeah, and because you know, like obviously finding it
difficult to get ochre cards and that because they were
the crime that I was I got done charge with.

Speaker 2 (36:15):
You know, they're violent, was a violent offense.

Speaker 3 (36:17):
And because I haven't been out of prison long enough,
so the best way to but these kids and all,
they're over So they're over TikTok and all that most
of the time anyway, So you know, you get you
get more of a message to them through that kind
of stuff than what you would.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
Okay, so you're having difficulty with the establishment to work
work with kids because yeah, yeah, yeah, this is a
different way of reaching out to them.

Speaker 2 (36:37):
Yeah yeah.

Speaker 3 (36:38):
So and it's just not just the kids too, like
it's it's every anyone, you know what I mean. I've
seen the struggles of kids and adults, you know, and
I was one of those adults, you know. So and
then I came out of it and absolutely smashing it
and loving it now, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (36:51):
So, and I know when I was in jail.

Speaker 3 (36:53):
There was a lot of my mates and a lot
of that wanted the same journey that I'm doing now,
they just keep getting trapped in that cycle.

Speaker 1 (37:03):
Well, kids, and you know it's not rocket so understand this.
But kids won't listen to someone that doesn't walk that path. Now,
if straighty one eighty goes in there and tells these kids, look,
you shouldn't be doing this, they laugh and run away.
You go in there and your life's experiences. What about
in mental health with men and mental health? You say

(37:25):
you're trying to help help adults. What's your message to adults?
Not the kids that find themselves they're thinking they can
never turn their life around.

Speaker 3 (37:35):
Yeah, it's just simple, you know, like follow my journey.
Have a look at mine and Jeffrey Morgan's, like it's
all logged, it's all recorded, you know, Like you just
google my name and it just comes up with an
article after article from my past when I was you know,
when I was a bit of a bit of running up,
you know, So the good articles that I've been doing
in the last couple of years, you know, if I

(37:57):
could do it, there's no absolutely no excuse for anybody
out there whatsoever to say that they can't, you know
what I mean, Like because the life that I had,
even through the near you know, the attempted murders.

Speaker 2 (38:08):
On myself, you know what I mean, you know, and
then you know, like and then.

Speaker 3 (38:11):
Going to jail for all those years before that crime
they didn't commit like that break that break you know,
some of the strongest blokes, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (38:18):
Yeah, yeah, well yeah, it was that. Yeah, you learn
up there or in prison, and Jesus, you came, you
came close to bath, you came. Where are you a family?
You're still in contact with family and you're in a
relationship or HER's life going for you?

Speaker 3 (38:33):
Yeah, yeah, no, so I'm I'm definitely still in contact
with my family in dawn and stuff like that, and yeah, yeah, no,
I've got a I've got a missus, you know, a
beautiful lady. She's she's in I was just on the
Gold Coast with her dad. Yeah, she's she's she's from
the Goldie but she lives in ALUs for about ten.

Speaker 2 (38:49):
To thirty years.

Speaker 3 (38:50):
Yeah so yeah, yeah, so she's she's definitely one of
a kind of love of my life.

Speaker 1 (38:57):
She's she's enjoying the journey that you going on.

Speaker 2 (39:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (39:01):
Yeah, she's the opposite. You know, she likes to be
like trapped up. And she's not a not a people's
people you know. I mean, yeah, she's like real, real reserve.
You don't.

Speaker 1 (39:13):
Provert and you're you're out there on social media.

Speaker 3 (39:15):
Yeah, I'm out there just blowing up, you know. But
you know, like she's always supportive. She always send me
some some mad messages and stuff like that, or support
loves you know, loves the fact that the reason why
I'm doing what I'm doing. You know, like she's attracted
to that too, you know.

Speaker 1 (39:29):
So I think anyone would look at this and go,
that's that's cooling, trying to make a difference, and it's
balancing the ledger, isn't it. Yeah, the stuff that you've
done and now this is what you're doing. And I'm
a big believer in it. But no one wins if
we just keep blokes like you down, Like what what's what?
What joy is that?

Speaker 2 (39:49):
Yeah? No, that's exactly right.

Speaker 3 (39:50):
And you know, like, and I've even caught up with
deputy superintendents and out of the anti corrections even wrote
a letter to the commissioner and all that and said, look,
you know, like put all the bullshit aside. You know, Yeah,
I was an ex gang member. I was an ex
prisoner and all that that shouldn't they shouldn't put a
boundary or a barrier.

Speaker 2 (40:09):
Between you and I in order for me to come
in there and have you answer these these fillers and
try to get them as behaving going the right track,
you know, and they just yeah, they just didn't want
to borrow it.

Speaker 1 (40:18):
Like yep, No, I think there's examples here in New
South Wales where they're becoming more open minded about that
and seeing the benefits of people going in and yeah,
passing on messages like that, people that have walked the path,
because it does make a big difference, doesn't it.

Speaker 2 (40:35):
Yeah, yeah, no, it definitely does.

Speaker 1 (40:36):
You know.

Speaker 3 (40:37):
Like I spent thirteen thousand dollars enough to film this.
It's only a little short doc about my life before
like when I went to jail. So it's got a
little clips and stuff like that before I went to
jail to what I'm doing today.

Speaker 1 (40:49):
You know, where where will people find that?

Speaker 2 (40:51):
On Instagram? TikTok?

Speaker 1 (40:52):
Yeah, got the title or just with your.

Speaker 3 (40:55):
Yeah, you'll see like the like it's just a video there,
but you'll see like little news articles scattered around it too.
So like you know, from when I was like chatting,
auth House, mentoring youth and Alice Springs and stuff like that.
So you see these little articles that pop up around it,
and then yeah, if you just click onto it or
just start playing, you know, and it starts off with
like a Channel nine news report when they were talking

(41:15):
about me going to jail, you know, so.

Speaker 1 (41:18):
I, well, obviously do my research before. I haven't guessed
on Jeff vouch for you one hundred percent. And I
chatted with you, and I liked the conversation we had,
and I looked online. Yeah you've got the good and
the bad. There's that ying and yang thing you got,
yeah post and yeah, yeah your violent past, the things

(41:39):
that you did. Have you got any regret or remorse
about things that happened happened in the past.

Speaker 3 (41:44):
Yeah, yeah, definitely had definitely had some some regrets and remorse.
I remember one time, actually two thousand and just before
I got ran over, I think it was two thousand
and sixteen, twenty sixteen, And this is when.

Speaker 2 (41:58):
I was still a little bit violent.

Speaker 3 (41:59):
But I remember the one There was one young fellow
likes me, but when we were younger, you know, I
punched him around and I still remember this day that
I walked into the nightclub and I've seen him and
he got frightened and he was he was all right,
like you know, I just somebody convinced me to punch
him around and yeah, just being an idiot and I
did it, and just being a follower those that was

(42:19):
back in the day, you know.

Speaker 2 (42:21):
And I went straight up to him and I apologized
to him.

Speaker 3 (42:23):
I remember that, and you know, you know, like and
you know that's like I said, I've made peace with
my enemies, you know, and stuff like that, and yeah,
I'll be quite happy even to jump on the podcast
and with them and you don't shake their hand and
front of everyone and just show like, you know, so.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
That peace can be.

Speaker 3 (42:38):
You can make peace with your pass and yourself no
matter what the situation is, no matter who what your
enemy done to you, like you can do it, you know.
And that's that's where my head is right now. Like
my head is at that stage right now where I
could literally go to the follow who tried killing me
right now and if you think we'd be sitting in
there and I'd try nothing nothing but love and shake
his hand and say, look, I've forgiven you. It's people

(43:00):
as that like you know, I hope you know nothing
but the best things for you in life.

Speaker 1 (43:03):
It's empowering, isn't it. Like I've got people that hate
with a passion, But if I let that hate go,
all of a sudden, problem problems, problems gone. Like it
is powerful to forgive. And I know we're talking talking
deep here, but yeah, there's people that I'd love to
smack their heads in, But then I think, no, I

(43:24):
just let it go. I won't let it worry me.
I forgive them, as you said, get on with their life.
They're just trying to live their life. I'll live my life.
And it takes a lot of a lot of pressure
away from you.

Speaker 2 (43:34):
Yeah, definitely. And they're just on a different journey.

Speaker 3 (43:36):
Like and their mindset, like I said, they're their education
levels of their mindset is just not as as quipped
as yours.

Speaker 1 (43:43):
Yeah, and well you're a classic example. I probably m two.
You evolve, You learn, Yeah, you make your mistakes and
you learn.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
You see reason and you see reason not to do
you know what I mean? And you.

Speaker 1 (43:58):
Why?

Speaker 2 (43:59):
But why would you? What are you going to achieve
out of this?

Speaker 1 (44:01):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (44:01):
Like, where are you're heading?

Speaker 3 (44:02):
If you do that? There's only one place. The other, well,
there's two things you're going to go probably more than
likely it's jail and with enemies.

Speaker 1 (44:09):
Now, and that's at the end of the day. Do
you feel good about it? You're not going to feel
good about it. You've taken a piece out of yourself.
So I can't believe how much you learned just because
you're lied about being I lied about being get a better,
get a meal. Maybe that's the way. Yeah, that's yeah,

(44:29):
maybe that was the way that you were meant to
meant to learn. That's a classic.

Speaker 3 (44:32):
Yeah, no, that's right, you know. And now now actually
everything that pops up on my Instagram that it's got
anything to do, what is them or mindfulness or zen
or anything, I'm straight onto it.

Speaker 1 (44:43):
Yeah, Okay, where do you hope your life will be
in ten years time?

Speaker 3 (44:50):
It's funny, like I just really really do, like, you know,
I hope that you know, I can still just continue
on doing this journey, but have have people. I'm in
the process now flying to Perth. I just came back
from the Gold Coast. I got a invite to Melbourne.
I've got to invite to South Australia to be on
a national board for what I'm doing now, you know, so,

(45:12):
and I'll try to build like a like a like
a group of us, you know what I mean, we
all can share, share our views and stuff like that,
don't together.

Speaker 2 (45:20):
And there's a few, not all of.

Speaker 3 (45:22):
Them are you know, just good good people grew up
in wealthy homes and stuff like that. Just to continue
doing that, getting the word out, getting a heap of
people follow me, and then when I go, you know,
like start a campaign through the NT and get these
kids from the streets into parks, training, getting their fitness up,
getting their education back up, you know, get them you know,

(45:43):
get them some sort of sense of life and living
and to move them. So then yeah, because they're going
to be running the country one day, you know what
I mean. So like we don't want these kids and
mess up, like because they're getting more and more and
more and more every single year, thousands and thousands of
thousands just getting worse and worse and ways.

Speaker 1 (45:58):
Well, incarceration right in Northern Territory for Indigenous kids.

Speaker 2 (46:03):
Is it's unreally Yeah, yeah, it's it's a chocker.

Speaker 1 (46:07):
I've seen the benefits down here around Redfern with stuff
that Shane Phillips and he's mob do with tribal warrior
and yeah, without prejudice, and it just yeah, it blows
my mind. And I look, I hope, yeah, I understand
the resistance from government organizations and that go will look
at his past and all that, but I hope they

(46:28):
can see past that, like, yeah, you're a classic case
is don't judge a book by its cover.

Speaker 3 (46:33):
Yeah, yeah, it's a hundred percent. And you know what's
funny too, I've had a couple of organizations, you know.
When I got out, I reached out to him and
asked him if you know, like if I could do something,
they could, you know. But now that I've blown up,
they've gotten in contact with me and asking if I
could do something. When I was straight out, I was like, yeah, no,
I was like, you want me to come do that?

(46:53):
It's going to cost you. You know, you should have
let me come in, you know, Like, well, and.

Speaker 1 (46:58):
That's the thing. And I don't think you know, I
can't give business advice. I'm not qualified for that by
any means. But yeah, the stuff that you're doing costs money,
and you've got them earn a living as well.

Speaker 2 (47:09):
So yeah, that's it.

Speaker 3 (47:09):
And you know what, Still to this day, everything I've
done is voluntary. Like this trip that I'm doing now
cost me tens of thousand dollars. The trip in September's
costing me tens of thousands of dollars. The dock I
spent out of my own money that cost me in
a thirteen towns. I've not ever got any funding or
anything whatsoever for everything I've done. Everything's been valid. I
paid for my own fuel, pay for my own travel,
my own accommodation, like for the last two and a

(47:31):
half years. You know, it's just and it just puts
me just luckily enough that the bloke who gave me
an awesome job when I got released from jail and
gave me a promotion, and he's getting another promotion, he's
paying enough money that I can just sit back and
I can I can work for you know, like a
couple of months, and then that can pay for these trips. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
Yeah, well, full full credit to you. Do you you
look back and think, Okay, I didn't get off to
the best start, But are you you happy with the
way your life's turned out there? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (47:59):
One hundred percent.

Speaker 3 (48:00):
Like, definitely didn't get off to a best start the
journey that I'm heading now and where I'm at today,
I'm just blowing away, you know what I mean, Like
the people that's that I'm surrounding myself with the people
that are getting in contact with me and willing to
help me. You know, there's a lot more a lot
of others. That's why it just goes to show, you know.
That's why I try to tell people like just follow
my journey, like you don't need other people to help you, like,

(48:23):
you know, like as in for money wise whatever like that.
You just got to know inside your own your own mind,
your own willpower, that you can be successful. You can
get out there, you can work, you can work hard,
and you can educate yourself every single day and better
your education in order to head down that direction, you
know what I mean, So to get life coaches and
stuff like that. You know, Like that's one thing reason

(48:44):
why I used to watch reels in that all the time,
like we read books on that mindful's bosom and then
now I watch reels and that on Instagram whatever like that,
and signed up with Jeffrey's online coaching and program too,
because you know, it just it helps that much in
order to take me the next step further, like and
a lot of people just don't realize that. But back
in the day, I'd be like, that's all bullshit, that's

(49:05):
all bullshit. But it wasn't until something traumatic happened to me,
like the near death experience and their near life experience
in prison that woke me up and snapped me out
of it and actually giving it a good shot, like
not just picking the book up and reading a few
pages and that's not doing nothing, or somebody giving you
a bit of advice and you practicing it for a

(49:26):
week or two or a month or two and then
it's not working. But these things take months and months
and months, not just weeks or a couple of months. Here,
no quick fixes, no, No, it's like months, not a
couple of years, you know, like years before even you
even start to see something, Like you might not see
it in the first six to twelve months, but others
do you know what I mean? And then before you
know it, like far out you're doing things that I'm
doing now, you know.

Speaker 1 (49:46):
Look, and people wanting to hear your message. I think
that's that's interesting too. Yeah, definitely at the moment, Yeah,
I heard about it I said, yeah, we want him
on and get him on the pok us. But you
know that's the way you got to spread the message
and you might inspire other other people and you're getting

(50:07):
you're getting the respect doing something that's worthwhile too. Yeah
the respect is a tough guy. And but there you
look at that and go, this is better, isn't it?

Speaker 2 (50:16):
Yeah? Most definitely.

Speaker 3 (50:17):
Yeah, it's way way more enjoyable, you know. I like,
you know, just to go out there, get out, have
a feed, go catch up with all these like all
these young lads and stuff like that, and go out
and do some training, training sessions and with them, have
a have a yarn to them and a chat and
tell them what, you know, where their life would be
heading if they go down that direction, Like you know,

(50:38):
it's it's not this. And not to glorify one of
that kind of stuff because they might think, you know,
like oh, yeah, you know, sex, drugs and money and
stuff like that. You know, that's the high life or whatever.
But that's that's just the tiniest bit of part of
what actually happens.

Speaker 2 (50:54):
You know.

Speaker 3 (50:54):
Yeah, it's more, it's all it's more you know, assaulting
or that collecting or you know, stuff that life threatening,
stuff that could end your life.

Speaker 2 (51:03):
And whether it's you know, like six foot hundred.

Speaker 1 (51:07):
Or in jail, well, you know, we've heard quite a
few redemption stories on eye catch killers. But Shannon, full
credit to you, mate, like you should be proud of
what you're doing, and thanks for being so open and
honest and talking about what you've been through in your journey.
But I wish you all the best. Yeah, No, appreciate

(51:27):
that good stuff. Keep up with good work. Yeah, it's
been great having the yarn with cheers