Avo Arrow - Featuring Canadian History Ehx

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hey, everyone. You might noticethat the better help add and my regular
introduction are missing from this episode,and that is because I had a six
hour orientation to my master's program thatI started this weekend that was due Monday.
Unfortunately, the weekend is when Ido all of this whole show.

(00:24):
Every aspect of this show happens betweenThursday night and Saturday night, so unfortunately
that six hours pretty much ate upall of my time that I had to
make an episode for this week.But fear not, our good friend Craig
from Canadian History X was willing tostep in and send an episode over for

(00:44):
us. Craig is not only anamazing podcaster and journalist, but he is
absolutely a friend of the show andhe has been a supporter of this show
since the before times when it wasa bad show, before the rebrand and
before I started taking seriously. Hewas even a fan and supporter then.
So sincerely, sincerely, I hopethat you stick around and listen to Craig's

(01:07):
episode. It is great, asare all of his episodes. I will
tag his show in the show notesso that you can find his work and
subscribe to his podcasts as well.Until next time, I will see you
guys next week, and I promiseI will have something prepared that is actually
obscure history. I had that orientationwas a bit of an unfortunate surprise,

(01:29):
but these things happen, and asmuch as I do love making this podcast,
it is not my career. Mycareer does require me to have that
master's degree. So anyways, Ihope that you guys have a fantastic week.
Please stick around for Craig's show.You will absolutely not regret it.
Greetings, and welcome to another episodeof Canadian History X. If you like,

(01:53):
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(02:16):
research, everything, So every dollaryou give I'll keep it all going,
and I truly do appreciate it,and I'll thank you on the air and
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YouTube, where I put up weeklyvideos on Canada's history. Just go to
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First, I'd like to apologize becausemy voice might be a bit off right
now battling through a sore throat,but I want to make sure that I
got an episode out, So Idrank some cough syrup and I'm ready to

(02:59):
get this episode recorded so you canall enjoy it. But I apologize if
I get gravelly or my voice breaksor anything like that, because so our
throat suck. It could be arguedthat the Avro Arrow is the most famous
aircraft in Canadian history. It isfamous not only for the fact it was
one of the most advanced aircraft ofits time, but also the unceremonious end

(03:21):
to the Avro program that moved theaircraft into legend. Today, I'm looking
at the famous Avro Arrow. Bythe nineteen fifties, the Cold War was
growing as a perceived threat to NorthAmerica. There was a concern that Soviet
bombers armed with nuclear warheads could travelto North America over the Canadian Arctic,
with some experts stating such an attackcould come as early as nineteen fifty four.

(03:45):
In order to deal with this perceivedthreat, the Royal Canadian Air Force
commissioned the Avro Company to design andbuild a new aircraft which would be an
all weather nuclear inceptor that could flyhigher and faster than any other aircraft.
It'd be known as the Avro Fone oh five, or more commonly,
the Avro Arrow. Avro Canada hadbeen created in nineteen forty five as a

(04:06):
subsidiary of Hawker Sidelhi Group. Initially, the company handled the repair and maintenance
work for aircraft at the airport thatwould become the Toronto Pearson International Airport.
One year later, the company designedCanada's first jet fighter for the Royal Canadian
Air Force, the Avro CF onehundred Canuck All Weather Interceptor. It would
take years for the aircraft enter service, which it did in nineteen fifty three,

(04:29):
and it would continue to serve arole in the Canadian military until nineteen
eighty one. Getting the contract tobuild the Arrow, Avro quickly expanded and
by nineteen fifty seven the company wasemploying twenty thousand people. This made it
one of the largest companies in Canadaand one of the most respected. On
September thirtieth, nineteen fifty three,the company would purchase a jet plant in

(04:49):
Malton, Ontario, for seventeen pointfive million dollars in order to become the
first Canadian company to build a completeaircraft from airframe to jet engines in its
factories. An Avro spokesman would stay, quote, never before has a Canadian
company being capable of building a planefrom top to bottom. We have always
had to buy various parts for theaircraft. Now we can design and put

(05:13):
one together on our own hook endquote. Leading the project would be Avro
president Crawford Gordon Junior, James C. Floyd, who was the first non
American to win the Wright Brothers Medalfor his work on jet technology. And
there was also Jennie Surakowski, apilot from Poland who served during the Battle
of Britain and would have the honorof flying the Arrow. The project was

(05:34):
massive, with the plane wing inat twenty thousand kilograms with a fifteen point
two meter wingspan. It also hadthe first computerized flight control and weapons system
in the world, and it wasgoing to be faster than any jet of
its type, able to hit twicethe speed of sound at fifty three thousand
feet. The electronic firing system contractwould be awarded to the Radio Corporation of

(05:56):
America, and there was a planto produce the Arrow called the one five
in Britain under a license with theRoyal Air Force. The time deal for
this project, which began in nineteenfifty three, was short, and instead
of having a small number of prototypeshand built and flown to test problems,
the production line was set up firstand several planes were built as production models.
Any changes would be incorporated into thedesign while testing continued, and full

(06:20):
production would start immediately once the testingwas finished. Problems were legion on the
Arrow. We had a problem,for instance, that the wing skin temperatures
at fifty thousand feet, where theaircraft was to have its comeback capability,
were forty fifty degrees higher than theboding point of water, yet inside of

(06:42):
the wing. You had the fuelwhich was cooling it down, so the
differential temperature was trying to distort thewing, and we had to tailor and
design the wing so that that distortionwas compensated and didn't affect the air dynamic
capabilities of the aircraft. We hadto be dead drive first time. There
was no flying a prototype, flyingthe problems on it, and reflecting the

(07:05):
flat back into the production drawings andissuing modifications. You had to be right,
and yet you had nothing to fallback on, no real experience to
fall back on on the design ofthe same pad. As news reports of
the new aircraft starn't hit newspapers,there were speculations that the aircraft would have
no pilot due to the speeds itwould reach. The Regina Leader Post would

(07:27):
report on September sixteenth, nineteen fiftyfive, quote, at fifteen hundred miles
an hour, a plane is approachingthe heat barrier in which ordinary metals such
as steel, tend to give way. The heat is caused by friction between
air and the aircraft. It isbelieved the pile will have little to do
then take it off and land it. That even may be done automatically.
End quote. In order to dealwith the heat created by the heat barrier,

(07:48):
the arrow carried enough refrigeration to turnout twenty three tons of ice every
day. It would also contain seventeenkilometers of wiring, and its control mechanism
was powerful enough to lift six elephantsstanding in an elevator. In order to
test the plane, nine models andone eight sides were launched on rockets over
Lake Ontario and two others over theAtlantic Ocean. These models flew and mock

(08:13):
one point seven and were initially crashedinto the water. Around the time tests
were beginning, there was a worrythat the funding from the government would be
cut. The government had nearly lostsixty million dollars that it had invested in
two post Korean defense projects, whichincluded the Avro Arrow program, and it
was a drastic action by the governmentthat prevented the failure of the two projects

(08:33):
and the money already invested. Oneof the first tests took place on August
twenty fifth, nineteen fifty five,when a miniature was mounted on the nose
of a Nike anti aircraft missile andsent to supersonic speeds to twenty four kilometers
in the air and then sent backdown after it was released from the missile.
At the same time, another modelwas mounted in a wind tunnel in

(08:54):
Buffalo and flown at speeds equally sixteenhundred kilometers an hour. This method of
testing the plane also had risks,which meant a massive testing program was needed
to mitigate the risks. By themiddle of nineteen fifty four, wind tunnel
work began on the plane, aswell as computer simulation studies. The experiments
showed that only a small number ofdesign changes were needed, and most of

(09:16):
those were changes in positioning and profileof the wings. In October of nineteen
fifty four, it was announced thatthe new Avro Arrow would be ready for
output by nineteen fifty six. Accordingto R. K. Anderson in speaking
with an international meeting of two hundredand fifty scientists, engineers and technicians.
While he did not state it wasthe Arrow, most interpreted it to be
so. In February nineteen fifty six, a full scale wooden mock up was

(09:41):
created, and the Royal Canadian AirForce soon demanded changes, including changes to
the fire control system. All ofthose work came to fruition on October fourth,
nineteen fifty seven when the Avro Arrowwas unveiled in front of twelve thousand
people at the Averro plant Ian Austin, a journalist and attendance would stay quote,
it swept back, delta wings andearly electronic flight controls gave it a

(10:03):
look of tomorrow, as did itsblinding white, matted black and day glow
orange paint endquote. Of course,what a lot of people didn't know was
that the plane was literally just painted, and one stenographer at the unveiling found
that the paint was still wet onthe jet. Air Vice Marshal Hugh Campbell
would say, quote the Arrow,including its missiles, flight trail and fire

(10:24):
control systems, we believe will becomea very important component of North American air
defense endquote. In Canada, theraps were taken off one of the most
ambitious aviation ventures ever undertaken in thiscountry, the Avro Company CF one oh
five, or as it's called,the Arrow without intercontinental ballistic missiles. The

(10:45):
CF one oh five was scheduled tobe the most important instrument of air defense
for the next ten years. Nowthis may not be sold. In any
case, when the Arrow does gointo service, it will compete with any
manned fighter anywhere in the world.One concern was raised but the plane on
the first day, and that wasthe noise it would generate. Finding a
base for the plane to be difficult, considering that anyone living within four kilometers

(11:09):
of the plane taking off would findit quite Bothersome Another issue was that,
due to its speed, it gobbledup fuel and could only fly for about
forty minutes, but in that timeit could cover a distance from Toronto to
Halifax. On the first day thatthe plane was unveiled, there was already
talk of whether or not it wouldstill be useful. The Calgary Herald would
write, quote, will the Arrow, which will not be in Squadron's service

(11:31):
until nineteen sixty one, be outdistanced soon by rockets? This is the
real contest the Arrow faces, notagainst Russian bombers, which she can magnificently
demolish, but against the time scaleof Rocke and Misselery, which is rapidly
compressing her useful fighting life. Thesame article would highlight that the program was
under review, but that it wouldlikely be safe from cuts. The article

(11:52):
stated quote, it should be said, if only for the benefit of the
twenty thousand Canadians whose jobs depend onthe project that in the current defense economy,
drive the arrow as as safe asa church endquote. There was also
concern over the fact that the Arrowwas capable of carrying a nuclear bomb,
and many questions whether or not cannedas should be involved in building bombers.

(12:13):
The Ottawassistant's headline would highlight this,stating quote Avrow's new jet as platform for
launching h bombs end quote. Zarakowski, the man who would fly here on
the first flight would say, quote, she'll do easy to fly. She'll
be the easiest flying plane ever built. Endquote. With the plane unveiled and
now fell to Zerakowski to fly forthe first time. On March twenty fifth,

(12:35):
nineteen fifty eight, at nine fiftythree a m. The plane took
flight and demonstrated excellent handling. TheWindsor's Star would write, quote, today's
flight relieved months of tension for AVROWdesigners and engineers. The Arrow snapped a
hydraulic line Saturday, minutes before wasscheduled to take off, and it took
most of Monday to repair and inspectthe plane. End quote. Zarakowski,
in very few words, would simplysay, quote it's a beauty end quote.

(13:00):
It's coming up now, slowly taxingsouthwards towards the end of a two
mile runway. I can see ABRO'sfamous test palette jan Zarikowski looking small under
the canopy of this great long aircraft. It's rather difficult to imagine how this
aircraft will fly because from this angle, if I look at the side fusilage,

(13:24):
it does not appear to have wings, only a large high tail.
It's continuing. It's taxing down therunway very quietly, by the way,
very little noise from the motor.Now the plane has disappeared over a small
hummock which obscures my view of theend of the runway. So I suppose

(13:50):
in any moment we can expect,let's see F one O five the Avro
Arrow to come rushing up the runwayand take off. Are you're a sound?

(14:26):
This is it? This is it? Here's comes it's off the ground.
That's him. Oh what a magnificentand thrilling site, like a great

(15:01):
dart taking to the air at aforty five degree angle, followed by the
two Chase planes. Well, thereit is. I suppose that took place
at about eight minutes before ten o'clock. Your's just passing over and it's banking
just passing over above us. Iarrested to estimate the height debis don't where

(15:24):
around about eight hundred defeat, followedvery closely by one of the Chase planes.
The Chase plane, by the way, is photographing every movement on motion
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(16:33):
twelve months. This first version ofthe Avro Arrow would fly sixty six times.
On the plane's third flight it wentsupersonic, and on a seventh flight
it broke sixteen hundred kilometers an hourat fifty thousand feet while climbing. A
top speed of Mach one point nineeight was reached, but that was the
limit of what it was capable of. A Mark two was in development at
the time, but unfortunately it wouldnever fly. As it turned out,

(16:56):
those initial flights would be the highpoint for the air Row and it would
be all downhill from there. Infact, the end would begin only a
week later. But I'll get tothat. Changes were a foot in Canada
when in June nineteen fifty seven,Louis Saint Laurent and the Liberals lost of
the charismatic John Diefenbaker and the ProgressiveConservatives, ending twenty two years of Liberal

(17:17):
rule dating back to nineteen thirty five. Diefenbaker had made cutbacks to federal spending
a major part of his campaign,and now that he was in power with
a minority government. He wanted tomake good on that the Avro Arrow program
was not cheap, costing four hundredmillion dollars or three point seven billion dollars
today, and it was diverting hugefunds from the Air Force. There were

(17:37):
other issues. Lieutenant General Gee Simmonsfelt that the technology used in the Arrow
was already outdated, and Diefenbaker didnot get along with Crawford Gordon Junior.
Diefenbaker did not drink, or didso very rarely, while Gordon was known
to enjoy smoking and drinking. Thetwo men would often argue and never saw
eye to eye. Another problem camefrom the Soviets themselves. The very day

(18:02):
that the Avro Arrow was unveiled,Spotnik was launched into orbit with the first
human made satellite. The focus onnuclear weapons moved from the air and into
space, and the idea of apiloted bomber became less of a concern compared
to intercontinental ballistic missiles. If theAvro Arrow, which was designed to intercept
Soviet bombers, was not going tobe used for that, now what would

(18:23):
it be used for. The AvroArrow remained the fastest jet in the world,
but France, Sweden, Great Britainin the United States had all created
planes that could fly longer and higher. The Americans were working to build their
own F one oh six, whichwas similar to the Arrow, and their
plane was only two to three yearsaway from full production, the same as
the Arrow was. With the worldchanging fast and the jet not being ready

(18:45):
for combat unto nineteen sixty two,the writings seemed to be on the wall
for the program. There is alsobelief that the United States pressure Deefenbaker to
cancel the Avro Arrow program as itwas seen as competitor to the American companies.
The true is that this has becomea myth that has grown over the
years, but is likely not rootedin much fact. The United States Air

(19:06):
Force in nineteen fifty eight at leasthad wanted to buy Arrows on behalf of
the Royal Canadian Air Force to servein continental defense. Canada refused this,
believing it was an act of charity. With pressure mounting, the company tried
to find a foreign buyer for theAvro Arrow, but countries did not want
to take on the project, especiallywith the space age now dawning. On
March thirty first, nineteen fifty eight, deepen Baker would win the largest majority

(19:29):
in Canadian history, and that wouldprove to be the beginning of the end
for the Avro Arrow. On Apriltwenty second, nineteen fifty eight, the
Defense Research Board advised the government thatthe Arrow would be a useful weapon system
for the next several years. Whatmany were waiting on was news on what
the Russians were doing. Such agovernment decision could be changed overnight if intelligence
report that of Russia provided reliable informationthat the Soviet Union planned to halt bomber

(19:53):
production soon. On August eleventh,nineteen fifty eight, George Perks, the
Minister of National Defense, requested thatthe Arrow program be canceled, but the
Cabinet Defense Committee refused to do so. In September, Perks again put forward
the request and included the installation ofBeaumark missile systems as part of the Norad
treaty can had signed in nineteen fiftyseven. The Committee accepted the installation of

(20:17):
the missile system, but again refusedto cancel the Avro Aero program. The
committee want to wait until a majorreview. On March thirty first, nineteen
fifty nine. I want to stressmost emphatically that the Arrow program has not
been canceled, nor has it beendecided not to put it into production.

(20:38):
On the contrary, the Prime Minister'sstatement says the program is to continue as
it now stands. It involves thebuilding of thirty seven aircraft and an appropriate
number of engines. This situation remainsunchanged and we are convinced when the review

(21:00):
takes place next March, the Arrowwill be ordered into production. Even as
the government was calling for the programto be canceled, the plane was still
making news for its abilities. OnAugust second, the second Avro Arrow took
flight and remained in the air forseventy five minutes. The second Arrow came
along only a few weeks after thefirst Arrow was damaged when parts of its
landing gear failed upon landing on Augusttwenty seventh. The second Arrow hit fourteen

(21:25):
hundred kilometers an hour as it wastested for instrumentation and structure, reaching fifty
thousand feet. On August twenty ninth, the plane blasted through the sound barrier
forty five thousand feet above Ottawa,causing many an Ottawa to believe an explosion
had occurred. Despite these successes,the end was near for the plane and
it would come suddenly. By Marchnineteen fifty nine, it was expected six

(21:47):
arrows would be completed, but thoseplanes would never take proper flight. On
February twentieth, nineteen fifty nine,the project was canceled and overnight, fourteen
thousand, five hundred and twenty eightpeople were out of work directly at AVROW,
while another fifteen thousand people in supplychain of Avro would lose their jobs.
Many were highly skilled engineers. Theday would become known as Black Friday

(22:07):
in the Canadian aviation in the streetshortly after the news of the dismissals had
been broadcast over the public address systemat the Avro plant at Malton. Bill
Beatty of CBC News in Toronto wasat the scene. He's beside me in
the studio. Now, what wereyour impressions of the scene? Bell?
But too many sided story, thisdeath of the arrow at Malton. A

(22:29):
funeral procession of cars, hundreds ofthem, bumpered a bumper along the roads
leading from the plant. At closingtime, you were about to hear a
recording of the words from some bittershocked people. Job's gone futures uncertain.
These are the people who left Avrothis night. Tool makers, designers,

(22:49):
maintenance men, office workers. Listen, everybody, just no warning whatsoever.
We were just work and I putit overly speaker. Everybody else home now
was laid off the plan. He'sjust shut down and we have finished as
from tonight. If everybody, everybody, everybody, what are you going to

(23:15):
do now? So? I don'tknow, lab exchange, wait and see
what comes along. There isn't anyoneto do nowadays. How long have you
worked to the plant? Six years? I've been six years, gentleman here
thirteen years, nine gen years.Yeah, and he's just put out like
an old set John deep Bigger.Isn't any good? That, my my

(23:38):
opinion, unfortunate. We hadn't hadwe have broken up this way and I
mean it can't be home. We'vehad our cars. What do you think
of it? Oh? Well,it was quite a disappointment. People are
living on half. They figured thatthere would be something come out of it,
you know, that they wouldn't getcut so drastically more. We've been
expecting this, but we didn't expectitself soon For the uncle news today,

(24:02):
Oh wonderful, but a good fishing. Now the ink of the school fishing,
I think we after for a fewdays. What are you gonna do
now to the boat by the schooler. I'm gonna draw my unemployment right till
the last broad eat. Baker ain'tgonna get it, not at long.
It didn't biggod at a minute beforeit didn't bigger it was. That's what

(24:23):
I said. I say, there'stoo much Americanism and not enough Canadianism in
the country, and were fast becominga satellite of the Americans. How long
have you been at the plant seventeenyears or other? I think it's drastic.
I think that the governments have showndisregard for the economy or I wouldn't
say actually the economy, but forthe golden welfare of the people alone.

(24:45):
I didn't think I would have beencollapsed right immediately. I figured they might
have done something to facilitated the workersand the sailing people in the plant,
like this mount here's a cripple,he's got no legs. And I think
it's a tragedy completely on the learningpeople at the only priory for the Canadian
paper. Well, there you havethe collective voices of personal disillusion Avro working

(25:07):
people recorded at random as they droveout from Avro for the last time.
Employees were told this afternoon to takeaway all personal belongings from the plant.
General Charles Folks, the Chairman ofthe Canadian Chief of Staff, would say
the end came because the high costand lack of foreign order, stating quote,

(25:29):
Therefore, because of these reasons,it is now possible that we may
have to abandon the policy of developingand producing special Canadian equipment for the limited
requirements of the Canadian forces end quote. Diefenbaker would issue a statement regarding the
cancelation later in the day on Februarytwentieth. He would stay quote, by
the middle nineteen sixties, the missileseems likely to be the major threat,

(25:51):
and the long range bomber relegated tosupplementing the major attack by these missiles.
This decision is a vivid example ofthe fact that a rapidly changing the picture
requires difficult decisions, and the governmentregrets the inevitable impact of it upon production,
employment, and engineering work in theaircraft and related industries. Prime Minister
Deefenbaker would add quote the examination hadbeen made in light of all information available

(26:15):
concerning the probable nature of threats toNorth American future years, the alternative means
defense, and the estimated costs.The conclusion is that the development of the
arrow should be terminated. Now.Quote well, mister Deefenbaker, what were
the main factors behind the government's decisionwith regard to the arrow? But as
far back as nineteen fifty two whenthe plan first got underway, it was

(26:37):
realized that from time to time itwould be subject to examination with a view
to ascertaining whether or not this typeof interceptor would be the proper instrument.
Last September I made it perfectly clearthat having regards to the development of present
taking place, particularly in intercontinental ballisticmissile, that there was a probability that

(27:02):
action would have to be taken inthis regard, and that's the reason for
the action. We were loath totake it, but responsibility rested upon us
to assure that the defense dollar expendedin Canada shall return the largest potential in
defense. And having regard to thechange in attitude of the USSR and devoting

(27:25):
itself more and more to missiles,we found that the defense that would be
available to Canada by nineteen sixty twoand when these aircraft would first be available
in general for the r CEO.By that time they would be ineffectual and
inoperative. If the missiles had beenadvanced, as we expect they will.

(27:51):
Stephen Baker would then make it clearthey can they would go ahead with the
installation of Beaumark anti aircraft missile systems, which would be fitted with nuclear warheads.
Avro management was completely caught off guardby the cancelation. They had known
that the program was in jeopardy,but they had expected it not to come
before the March review. They hadhoped to fly the Arrow mark two before

(28:12):
cancelation to set new world speed inaltitude records. Crawford Gordon Junior would state,
quote, we've received wires from thegovernment instructing us to cease all work
immediately on the Arrow and the Iroquoisprogram at Malton and by all suppliers and
subcontractors. As a result, noticeof termination of employment as being given to
all employees. We profoundly regret thisaction, but we have no alternative since

(28:36):
the company received no prior notice ofthe decision, and therefore we were unable
to plan any orderly adjustment. Enquote. The Avro management and employees were
not the only ones caught off guardby the decision. The House of Commons
was shocked as well. The OttawaJournal would report, quote, it was
evident by the hush that fell overthe House this morning that the members had
not expected the pronouncement of the arrowdeath sentence Albost six weeks ahead of deadline

(29:00):
end. Quote. Liberal leader LesterB. Pearson would call for a complete
review of defense policy in light ofthe cancelation. He would stay, quote
where are we going from now on? In this vital manner? Quote?
And my first reaction whether the decisionto end the production of the arrows was
announced in Parliament to day, twentymonths after the government came into power.

(29:22):
It's a decision important for defense,but it's important also industrially and economically for
Canada. Canadian development is to beended, and the United States produced missile
is to take its place. Wein the official Opposition, will judge this
decision by our considered view of theeffect it will have on our security and

(29:45):
on our economic and industrial development.One thing had been made clear by the
day's announcement, the absolute necessity ofa searching and complete examination by a parliamentary
committee or subcommittee. The whole questionof defense policy. Where do we go
from here? Farm out more thanthe arrow it involved in this matter,

(30:07):
which must surely mean that if theplanning and operational side are to be collective
with the United States, the developmentof resources and industrial capacity must be collective.
Also, we are approaching other vitelyimportant decision that depends polity in Parliament.
We think is entitled of far moreinformation than it has received. If
the decisions which will have to bemade are to be on a broad basis

(30:32):
of agreement, as I hope theycan be, we think it was a
very serious decision. It means thatCanadians in the last few years have been
taxed to this extent of four hundredmillion dollars. This money has now been
wasted, according to the government.It is also serious because it will result
in unemployment of perhaps between forty andfifty thousand Canadians. The CCF call and

(30:53):
the government to enunciate an alternative employmentprogram for the people involved. Asked the
government to increase pressure on the UnitedStates for increased defense orders for Canada.
And we say that our country shouldmake a greater effort for a positive piece
by cooperating with other nations in awar against disease and poverty around the world.

(31:18):
An attempt was made to provide thecompleted Avro Arrows to the National Research
Council of Canada as test aircraft,but the Council refused because it did not
have a ready supply of spare partsor staff and pilots trained for the plane.
By July of nineteen fifty nine,all of the aircraft have been cut
to pieces with blowtorches, while theblueprints, models, designs and more were
destroyed. The Victoria Times colonists reportedquote the remains were left on a concrete

(31:44):
flight apron to be taken away anddisposed of as scrap metal. Within two
months of Black Friday, five completedArrows and six more in the final stages
of production were demolished. Missus K. Shaw was there. She had been
senior designed artsman on the Arrow project. Cancelation of a military item is always

(32:05):
a possibility, and we had knownthat right from the beginning. The February
the twentieth announcement not only canceled allthat, but shortly afterwards ordered the destruction
of all the completed planes. Theyare most completed planes all the tools,
jiggers and pictures, all the documents, the research and development data, films,
pictures, records, practically everything thatcould indicate that that plane ever existed.

(32:30):
That was an act of absunity thatnobody has been able to explain.
We saw the destruction of the planesthat were in the in the shop.
The first three marked two arrows oftheotical engines were practically ready to roll.
They were expected to the first onethat expected to roll out in two or
three days. We saw those beingcut up, saw the record in the

(32:51):
documents, in the studies being collectedand piled, and the garbage cars be
taken away to be destroyed. Thefive aircraft out on the termag. No
one believed that they would be destroyed. Britain had asked to buy the five
completed arrows, and it's pretty surenauticlan Tipmoditans of Babby that they almost made

(33:12):
a political issue out of it.All that was thrown down the drain,
everything was cut up to scrap.Hamilton's scrap dealer, Sam Lacks, faithfully
carried out the orders related to himby the Department of Defense Production. The
arrow became ingots, which eventually weremelted down for Pots and Pans. Rumors

(33:37):
swirled that Deefenbaker ordered all evidence ofthe plane's merits destroyed to avoid future embarrassment,
while others said it was for securityreasons. Others would say that the
CIA were involved in termining in thearrow and removing any trace of it because
it could outperform their own top secretU two spy plane. A legend emerged
that Air Marshal Wa Curtis had hiddenaway an arrow for Prosperity in nineteen sixty

(33:59):
eight. He was asked the rumorwas true, and he would stay quote,
I don't want to answer that quote. While no intact full sized AVRO
arrow has never been found, thelegend persists that there is one somewhere in
Canada hidden away. As it istwenty twenty one and everyone involved with the
program has passed away for the mostpart, it's likely the rumor is not
true. Diefenbaker has also become thesymbol of the demise of the program,

(34:22):
especially at the time. Blair FrasierMcLean's would write quote never not. Even
In June nineteen fifty seven, asPrime Minister, Diefenbaker met the press with
such a well earned glee as whenhe announced the discontinuation of our all Canadian
supersonic fighter aircraft, the Avro Arrowend quote. Charles Lynch of the Ottawa
Citizens stated, quote, I,for one, I am convinced the program

(34:44):
would have been carried through but formister Diefenbaker's open hatred for the Avro company,
which he regarded as a pork barreloperation. End quote. Since then,
historians have come to believe that theprogram would have been canceled even with
the Liberals in power, as ithad come along when the world was changing
and the type of aircraft for itscost was no longer viable. Deeven Baker

(35:05):
would say of the program, quote, it was a beautiful aircraft, but
I had to make, in thefinality that decision. When once faced with
a problem like this, there isa higher source of strength. If one
doesn't have the strength, he cannever bear the attacks made on him.
I knew that a great industry thathad been established would be weakened, but
it was right to end it.End quote. The irony of the cost

(35:25):
of the Avro Arrow program comes inthe costs associated with its replacements. The
Canadian government would buy sixty six secondhand Voodoo fighters that could only go half
the speed of the Arrow. Thecountry then opted into the Boormack program,
a surfaced air guided missile system program. That system would be met with immense
criticism in the nineteen sixties with thegrowing anti nuclear movement, and Canada would

(35:46):
choose to abandon its armed forces fromnuclear roles and it would shut down the
Boemac system. In the end,the cost of the Voodoo aircraft and the
missile system amounted to more than theentire cost of the Arrow program. The
insulation of the program and the purchaseof the missiles and the Voodoo fighters would
hurt Diefenbaker politically as well as ProgressiveConservatives. Even three years after the cancelation,

(36:08):
Conservative candidates were dealing with angry Canadians, especially in southern Ontario, speaking
about the loss of the Arrow.By nineteen sixty two, Diefenbaker would see
his record setting majority reduced to aminority government. One year later, his
government was out of power as Liberalswere elected and would lead Canada almost uninterrupted
until nineteen eighty four. By nineteensixty seven, Diefenbaker was out as leader

(36:30):
of his party and he would spendthe rest of his life until his death
in nineteen seventy nine as a backbenchmember of Parliament. The demise of the
avaux Era was disastrous for the company. Crawford Gordon Junior will resign as president
on July second, nineteen fifty nine, and he would die from alcoholism on
January twenty sixth, nineteen sixty seven. The vice president of the company,

(36:52):
Fred Spee, resigned in nineteen fiftynine. By the time the company closed
its doors in nineteen sixty two,twenty five thousand people that lost their jobs
with assets soul for fifteen point sixmillion dollars. The greatest impact was on
the future of Canada. With theprogram canceled, many of those thousands of
engineers went to find work elsewhere,and that took him to Great Britain where

(37:14):
they worked for the Concord program,while others went to United States and began
to work for NASA. Jim Chamberlainwould take twenty five engineers to NASA's Space
Task Program to become project managers,lead engineers and more on the Mercury,
Gemini and Apollo programs. Eventually,thirty two Avro engineers were part of the
program. And the consequences. Oneof them was a shot in the arm

(37:43):
for the American Moon project. Anumber of top engineers were immediately snapped up
by NASA. Brian rb By,young engineer, developed the heat shield for
the Apollo spacecraft. Len Packham,in charge of the rocket test program with
AVRO, worked on the telemetry systemfor the first manned rocket launchings, and

(38:04):
Jim Chamberlain, chief technician at AVA, was project director for Gemini and is
now with McDonnell douglas in Houston.Engineer Ken Cook went from AVA straight to
McDonald douglas and Saint Louis. He'snow a systems engineer on the F eighteen,
which his company hopes to sell toCanada for two and a half billion

(38:25):
dollars. It seems the era ofthe Man interceptor is not over after all,
but it's unlikely we'll ever have anotherArrow. Shortly after the cancelation,
we signed a defense production sharing agreementwith the US tacitly agreeing never again to
undertake production of a major weapon systemon our own. Averro employees will also

(38:50):
hold reunions through the years, andPaul Stevens, a producer of the Future
Arrow miniseries, would say, quote, you sit there in a hotel room
full of white haired men and listenedto their testimony. These are people who
went to land a man on themoon. But they would say working on
the Arrow was the best time oftheir lives. This was the spirit of
enthusiasm and creativity at Avro that theynever felt again. You could just tell

(39:12):
it was like the Apple Corporation ofthe nineteen fifties. End quote. Pieces
of the Avro Arrow have turned upover the years and found their way into
museums. The Canadian Air and SpaceConservancy has a full sized replica of the
plane, while the Avro Museum inCalgary as a flying replica. There's also
the no section of the original arrowwith the words cut here written on it,
on display at the Canadian Aviation andSpace Museum in Ottawa. In nineteen

(39:37):
ninety seven, a miniseries called Arrowwas released on CBC. A four hour
miniseries starred Dan Ackroyd as Crawford Gordon. The miniseries was highly acclaimed by viewers
and historians and won several Gemini Awardsthat year. It also spawned a Heritage
minute about the Avro Arrow. Youknow the story when the RCAF said mack
t Fighter two placed thousand mile raginsand British said it was impossible. The

(39:58):
acts pride twice and failed, theysaid, dreaming. We said, fine,
we'll build it right here in Toronto. And now you guys, my
guys are saying that it can't bedone. That they were right. Now.
That's the rocket that we used toget the modeloupe to speed and then
the onboard. But we did itto coude into your specs. The specs

(40:19):
who changed. We didn't you careto take off. Although the government canceled

(40:40):
the project and destroyed the prototypes,the Avro Arrow remains for Canada a world
benchmark and aerospace achievement. Ackroid wouldoffer his own view of the program.
A stated quote, I can seewhy the program was canceled. Missiles were
coming in. There was pressure fromthe United States not to have an aerospace

(41:01):
program in Canada. I can't blameall devil d for that. But where
do I blame him is in thevindictive and vengeful way the planes were destroyed,
that one or two weren't saved asthe real black horror of the story.
In February two thousand and four,the pilot who took the Arrow to
the sky. Zerikowski would die ofa rare blood disorder at his home in

(41:22):
Barry's Bay, Ontario. In Septemberof two thousand seventeen, a group called
Raised the Arrow found an arrow shapedobject in Lake, Ontario. The plane
was recovered the next year and wasbelieved that it was not one of the
scale models that were built, butan earlier, smaller test plane. On
January six, twenty twenty, CBCNews announced that the original blueprints of the
Avro Arrow were kept by Ken Barnes, a senior draftsman. Ordered to destroy

(41:45):
the blueprints, he put them instorage for decades. Instead, the blueprints
were put on display at the Diefenbakercan To Center in the Touch of the
Sky, The Story of the AvrouCanada Program. In twenty twenty one,
the National Research Council of Canada digitizedand released five hundred and ninety five Avro
Arrow reports that have been stored intheir rare bookroom. The Avro Arrow Private

(42:05):
Street commemorates the plane and program atthe Ottawa McDonald Cartchay International Airport. I
hope you enjoyed that episode in myLook at the Avro Arrow. Next week
there's no episode because it's Christmas,but the following week I will be looking
at the nineteen thirty nine Royal Tour. If you like, you can email
me at Craig at Canada ehx dotcom. You can find me on Twitter.

(42:28):
My handle is Craig Baird Craig bA I R D and I'm on
Instagram at bairdow thirty seven as well. Again, if you want to support
the podcast, you can for aslittle as three dollars a month. Just
go to Patreon dot com slash Canadaeh X and you can donate to the
podcast by going to Canada eh xdot com and clicking donate. I'd also

(42:49):
like to thank all of my wonderfulpatrons, and I apologize if I get
any names incorrect vobs. Robert Page, Richard D. Colin Johnson, Katie
Caldwell, Jeff Hershey, Kyle Murray, Steve Paikin, Matthew Garthoe, Lionel
Romayne, doctor Bob Turner, ananonymous patron that I truly do appreciate,
Randy Hayden, Doug Campbell, regw Deborah Carlson, Francis Helbling, Nicksonrie,

(43:15):
Shannon Marshall, Clinton Martinez, DmitriShouw, Aaron O'Hara, Myers,
Robert Dunseeth, Todd Casey, KathyRowa, Luke s JP Bear, Jason
Hall, film Manard, and IrisGray. Information from McLean's Canadian Cyclopedia at
the Montreal Gazette, Wikipedia, theNational Post, Saskatoon Star, Phoenix,

(43:36):
Regina Leader Post, Vancouver Province,Calgary Herald, the Windsor Star, CBC,
and the Naimo Daily News. Thanks, we'll see you again next time.