May 23, 2025 • 14 mins
Is your influencer marketing compliant with FTC regulations? In this tactical episode, Emma Rainville and Ryan Poteet of Gordon Reese dissect the critical compliance missteps that could be putting your brand at risk. Discover how to navigate the FTC's Trade Regulation Rule on consumer reviews, endorsements, and testimonials, while integrating effective strategies to ensure your influencer partnerships are transparent and legally sound. With real-world examples and actionable steps, they unveil a straightforward path to aligning your influencer marketing with legal standards. Don’t miss out on the Influencer Compliance Checklist, available in the Visionary Vault—your definitive guide to flawless compliance.
Download the featured playbook inside the Visionary Vault to level up your influencer marketing game. https://specialopspodcast.com/visionary-vault
(00:00) Introduction to Influencer Marketing Compliance
(00:36) Understanding FTC Regulations
(01:59) Examples of Influencer Marketing Scenarios
(03:10) Best Practices for Influencer Partnerships
(04:47) Ensuring Proper Disclosures
(11:04) Final Thoughts and Conclusion
Explore Free Resources at the Visionary Vault:
https://specialopspodcast.com/visionary-vault
Get in Touch with Ryan Poteet:
Website: https://www.grsm.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryan-poteet-43098ba
Get in Touch with Emma Rainville:
Website: https://specialopspodcast.com/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@specialopspodcast
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/emma_rainville512/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emmarainvilleoperationsguru
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ryan (00:00):
Now granted, is that gonna get you out of a influencer?
(00:02):
Goes out there and says stuff that oneisn't truthful is false about the product.
So I see
Emma (00:06):
that and I send you a cease and desist take down notice
and you don't take it down.
Ryan (00:10):
Then the
Emma (00:10):
That's on the influencer.
Ryan (00:12):
That's gonna be at the influencer.
Because at that point, I mean if you'retalking to regulators, it's like we're
trying to actively get this down.
Like you can't just like send a letter andbe like, Hey, they'll break your links.
Break your links.
You're my lawyer,
Emma (00:22):
and you get to give me three, four steps that I need to take
every time I hire an influencer.
What is it?
Ryan (00:27):
Number one.
Make sure that.
Emma (00:33):
Did you know most influencer marketing is not legal?
Brands are paying influencerswithout proper disclosures, and
the FTC is coming after them.
I'm Emma Rainville, your co-host withRyan Pote of Gordon Reese, and we
have created a spinoff of special opspodcast called Marketing On Trial.
We've come together to help you implementtrue compliance into your direct
(00:56):
response online or e-commerce brand.
Our topic today is influencermarketing and how to be compliant.
If you stay till the end of the show,we're gonna have a checklist for you free
of charge called the Influencer compliant.
Checklist, so stay tuned for that.
Ryan, the state of influencer marketingin 2025, I actually, when we were going
(01:17):
through, we don't really plan theseout, but we were picking topics and
so when we were picking our topics,I said, ah, this one's probably gonna
be the most boring and the fastest.
And you're like, thisis the most important.
Why?
Ryan (01:28):
No?
Well, I think one of the biggestreasons is the FTCs trade
regulation rule on consumer reviews,endorsements and testimonials,
immediate access to civil penalties.
So that just ups the ante for compliance,but it's really easy to comply with.
It's just people do it incorrectly allthe time and just assume that they can
rely on the platforms or, you know,hope that their influencers are gonna
(01:50):
go out there and do exactly what.
What the brand has told them to do.
Emma (01:53):
Also, I think most brands that engage most influencers, they're
contacting each other and they haveno idea that there is compliance.
I believe that.
So can I give you a couple examples?
Sure.
We'll do three quick examples.
Hotel contacts.
Ryan, who has 120 followers because heloves fishing and he posts videos of
them fishing and he's not even reallymonetizing any of it, but the hotel
(02:14):
is on, like this fly fishing lake.
Is it a lake?
I don't know.
Um, this place where people like to fish.
And they contact you andsay, Hey, come stay for free.
Eat for free.
Drink for free.
Fish for free.
You paid to fish, I don'tknow, fish for free.
And just post about our place sothat the people who watch your
show will wanna come fish here.
Ryan (02:31):
Yeah.
That, that's gonna be a testimonialor endorsement the person is
receiving that they need to disclose.
That.
They need to disclose.
How do
Emma (02:36):
they disclose it?
Ryan (02:37):
A couple different ways.
Um, you could do it in the body of.
The endorsement.
Okay.
Or the testimonial be like, Hey, thisis Joe from Fish USA, or whatever it is.
You know, this is Joe, we're on thelake and so and so, they flew me out
here to show me this great place.
Like you're embedding this ina more organic way, saying,
Hey, like they brought me here.
I receive, yeah, I'm receiving all, sothere's a relationship with the brand and
(02:58):
that I'm being incentivized in some way.
And so that should putthe consumer on notice.
Hey, by the way, youmight want to be careful.
I mean, I'm getting something and so thismight have influenced what I'm saying.
Emma (03:07):
Okay.
Ryan (03:07):
But hopefully it's gonna reflect their experience.
Emma (03:09):
Okay.
Donut shop gets approachedby influencer who does lots
of taste tests of local food.
Mm-hmm.
Austin, Texas, where I live.
Local, tons and tonsand tons of local food.
We have a donut shop here that I won't.
Say the name, but we have a donutshop here that has the most incredibly
strange donuts you've ever seen,but they're allegedly delicious.
(03:31):
And so she contacts them and says,Hey, I'll make a TikTok of me tasting
your donut and telling everybody howamazing it is, and that if you're
visiting Austin, Texas, they should cometo Austin because I have Austin Eats.
Ryan (03:42):
Mm-hmm.
Emma (03:43):
TikTok.
Yeah, sure.
Come on and get a free donut.
I get in trouble from the FTC for that.
Ryan (03:47):
Now the second you start incentivizing them to
post something about you.
Yes.
Emma (03:50):
Even though they approached me,
Ryan (03:52):
even if they approached you, it doesn't matter.
I just
Emma (03:53):
gave 'em a free donut.
Ryan (03:54):
Doesn't matter.
Emma (03:55):
Third one.
Last one.
I'm a large brand and I sell $500 million.
And I approach a large celebrity andI pay them a hundred thousand dollars
to post my, using my brand fourtimes and they say, Ooh, I love that.
I partnered with so and so.
My skin is so much clearer now.
Ryan (04:15):
Mm-hmm.
Emma (04:16):
Compliant.
She's partnering.
Ryan (04:17):
Yeah.
I, I don't think you're gonnarun into an issue there 'cause.
I think for two reasons.
One really well-known celebrity.
Okay.
And then two, when they start, whenyou hire a really big celebrity,
Emma (04:26):
okay.
Ryan (04:27):
You know, insert famous person's name.
Sure.
And then they're like, look at mybrand of vodka or skin cream, or
whatever it is most of the time.
And there's a counter argumentfor that where the FTC address as
this and some guidance that, youknow, there, a reasonable person
would see this as like, well.
You know, you don't have like an A-listcelebrity sitting up there talking
about some product that they just loveout of the kindness of their heart.
(04:47):
They're being compensatedfor it, which is why when you
turn on the television, right?
Okay.
When you see George Clooney talkingabout an alcohol brand or the Kardashians
about something else, no reasonableperson's gonna think that they were
doing that just because they wanted.
I
Emma (05:00):
don't know that I agree with you.
Ryan (05:01):
Why,
Emma (05:02):
um, George Clooney, you know, he looks like an alcoholic to me.
Seems like, seems fair.
Just seems fair.
Maybe he's not, I don't know.
Definitely looks like he pushes some back.
But let's take the Kardashians.
There is no aspect of the Kardashian'slife that isn't lived out on tv.
From divorces to births, to lies,to big mistakes, to sisters fights,
to hair dye, to lip injections, tobotch surgeries, to mental illness.
Ryan (05:27):
Mm-hmm.
Emma (05:27):
Cheating.
Like they live everything.
They wake up in the morning,they get in their glam chairs.
You watch them get all of their stuff.
They talk about the things that theylove, their salads that they like.
Are they partnering with lemons?
Like you could certainly justtake it and think that it's
just part of their every day.
Ryan (05:44):
No, very true.
And that's why the FTC has comeout and said yes, using a celebrity
is like one of these factors,
Emma (05:50):
but saying partner is enough.
But
Ryan (05:51):
partner is not enough.
Okay.
To make a material connection,disclosure, there's really two portions.
Okay.
We need to put the consumer onnotice that there's a relationship
between you and the brand.
So we're partners.
We're partners, but then thewhether or not the person providing
that endorsement or testimonialis actually being incentivized.
So it's free for, can you believe
Emma (06:06):
I get paid to use this skincare product?
Ryan (06:09):
I think you're gonna be fine with that.
Emma (06:10):
Okay.
What if I just put hashtag ad?
Ryan (06:13):
Hashtag ad should be fine.
Okay.
Because you know I was about to do some.
Yeah, but it depends on where it's.
Where it's appearing.
So if you're on Instagram,is it below the fold?
And so is it, you know, hashtag ad atthe very end of a lengthy discussion
about the product buried amongst,you know, 15 Yeah, 80 hashtags.
That's what I was gonna say.
No, it needs to be at the top.
And the FTC says that it needs to
Emma (06:33):
be the first hashtag.
Yeah, it
Ryan (06:34):
needs to be the first hashtag, not only the first hashtag.
The FTC would say that it actuallyneeds to be above the text.
So you can get intothese debates with Okay.
Regulators over where it should be.
But the FTC is gonna saythe material connection.
Disclosure needs to be unavoidable.
You couldn't possibly miss this, that theconsumer would read this and understand,
okay, well this person's receivingsomething or it's an advertisement
or promotion for some sort of brand
Emma (06:54):
from an operational standpoint to not kill conversions.
I would choose my way where theperson is disclosing in a way that's
letting their audience who loves.
Them know that they love theproduct while still disclosing it.
Like, can you believe I got to partnerwith them and I get paid to actually do
this, or I get paid to use this product,or Can you believe that I get this product
(07:17):
for free just for posting it on here?
Like I would spendmoney on this every day.
You know what I mean, asyou're looking at yourself.
So I would certainly do it that wayfrom an, from an operational standpoint.
Ryan (07:26):
Well, yeah.
And so, so many of the platforms nowhaving the built in paid partnership.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Things like that.
Now the FTC has come out andsaid, you can't just rely on that.
But even their kind of discussionabout communic, you can't
Emma (07:36):
rely on it because it might not
Ryan (07:37):
show up
Emma (07:38):
every time.
It
Ryan (07:38):
might not show up every time, or it's not prominent enough.
Emma (07:41):
But if, if it shows up, is it enough?
Ryan (07:42):
Ryan's saying, I think it's fine, especially in the meta platforms.
I think it is very clear whenyou're using the paid partnership,
I mean, it's right at the very top.
I mean, you can't, it either
Emma (07:50):
says sponsor or paid partnership or can't.
Yeah, you can't, you can't
Ryan (07:53):
actually get to what they're saying without missing that.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, I guess if you're not,don't have your glasses on, but
I think that's pretty low risk.
Emma (07:58):
Okay.
Um, alright, so let's talk about risk.
I'm the brand, you're the influencer.
Um, we go into partnership, thedisclosures, the FTC doesn't feel
like the disclosures were enough.
They go after you or me.
Ryan (08:11):
Both could be liable, but practically it's gonna
be the brand every time.
Emma (08:14):
Okay.
Ryan (08:15):
Even if,
Emma (08:15):
even if our contract says that you're responsible.
Ryan (08:17):
Yes.
Um, I mean the contract is great to have.
Mm-hmm.
'cause you're gonna say, you know,the contract will say, I tried
Emma (08:23):
to in good faith,
Ryan (08:24):
yes.
Like, do what I'm
Emma (08:25):
supposed to do.
And this influencer'soff the fricking rails.
Ryan (08:28):
Like give them the material connection.
Disclosure and every single post thatyou put on social media about our
brand, this is what you must say.
Now granted, is that gonna get you out?
If an influencer goes out there and saysstuff that one isn't truthful is false
about the product, okay, and I see,
Emma (08:40):
I see that and I send you a cease and desist take down
notice, and you don't take it down,
Ryan (08:44):
then that's, that's on
Emma (08:45):
the influencer.
Ryan (08:46):
That's gonna be at the influencer.
Because at that point, I mean, ifyou're talking to regulators, it's like
we're trying to actively get this down.
Like you can't just likesend a letter and be
Emma (08:53):
like, Hey, but break your link.
Break your links.
Break your links that they'reusing if you do that, okay, I don't
wanna get too hung up on that.
Thank you.
That's really good information.
So if you, you're a brand andyou hire me as an influencer,
actually, I'm not gonna do that.
You're my lawyer and you going to giveme three, four steps that I need to
take every time I hire an influencer.
What is it?
Ryan (09:13):
Number one, make sure that the influencer actually uses the product.
So there have been instances whereyou have these influencers that just
like come to you and they're like,Hey, can I just promote your brand?
Can I promote your brand?
Like they just want eitherfree product or money.
They don't really carehow great the product is.
They just want to be something.
Yeah,
Emma (09:28):
absolutely.
Ryan (09:29):
Right.
So I mean, some of that goes authenticity.
I didn't know
Emma (09:31):
they had to use your brand.
Ryan (09:32):
Oh, they absolutely, they have to use the product
Emma (09:34):
at least once.
Right?
Ryan (09:35):
Well, like if they're saying if
Emma (09:36):
it's a product review,
Ryan (09:37):
well, product reviews are a little bit different.
Well,
Emma (09:40):
than product endorsements.
I understand.
We got two different,so we have two buckets.
We have two buckets.
Product review, product endorsement.
If you're gonna do a productendorsement, make sure that they're
continuously using your product.
Ryan (09:50):
Yes.
So if the endorsement'slike, I love this guy.
I love this skin cream.
This is why I use it every day.
Like, look, I don't have any wrinkles.
Like this is what I use on a daily basis.
If that's not true, then thatwhole endorsement or testimonials.
Is
Emma (10:02):
a line.
Ryan (10:03):
Yeah, exactly.
Emma (10:03):
It's, it's false.
Not false advertising.
Deceptive advertising.
Exactly.
Ryan (10:06):
Yeah.
I mean the first thing is make sure thatthey're actually gonna use your product.
Mm-hmm.
And look at what they're kind ofgonna be saying about your product.
Number two would be, if you areincentivizing any way, they need
to include a material connectiondisclosure, and that goes back to the
contract we were just talking about.
You can draft out the material connectiondisclosures that they need to present
in every single one of their ads.
Emma (10:22):
Whether it's, can you believe I get paid for this or do you believe
they send this to me for free?
Exactly.
Just 'cause I share it with you.
I'm so lucky.
Exactly.
Ryan (10:30):
And then I, I guess the third point is you might not, at certain size, you
might not be able to review every singleone of these testimonials or endorsements
that gets placed, but you need to havesome sort of audit or tracking process
in the back, on the back end of all this.
So whether it's the influenceremails and inbox somewhere that
has a link to all the ads that atleast someone at some period of.
(10:50):
Some interval is going on and youknow, either doing keyword searches
or something to figure out likewhat these people are saying.
I mean, there's an obligation onthe business to police what the
affiliates, not affiliates, what theinfluencers are saying on their behalf.
So those are the big, the threemain things that I would recommend.
Emma (11:04):
Awesome.
Before we wrap up, any final thoughts oninfluencer marketing and what's coming?
Ryan (11:09):
No, I mean, I think it's a great way to build brand engagement.
It is the most authentic way to do it, and
Emma (11:15):
brand reputation's important and
Ryan (11:17):
you know, I think we might disagree or come to, you know.
We would politely disagree onwhether or not some of these
disclosures affect conversion.
But I think at the end of the day,
Emma (11:27):
we've actually voided that in this podcast somehow.
I think that the, putting the ads,putting hashtag ad and saying nothing,
I think that will abso like I, Itrust you to share with me what you're
using is an influencer that I follow.
Yeah.
I don't follow influencers, butI'm talking about the mindset
of people who sit and watchother people's stuff constantly.
We know what I watch andit's not stuff like this.
(11:48):
Like murder mystery stuff.
But um, I think that when you bury it,and I know you, you're not burying it.
If it's the very top it says hashtag ad,I think it would have very low conversion.
I think it would have a muchhigher conversion to just
by being extremely upfront.
I am, I. Beyond blessed that this ismy life and this is my job, and I get
(12:09):
paid to share this with you all, or canyou believe that they send this stuff
to me for free just because of you?
Thank you guys for coming in and watchingand buying the products that I recommend.
Because of you, I get to do this.
Right?
So I think that that would be way higherconverting than these written disclosures.
(12:31):
Above the fold that you're talking about.
I just think that people just aren'tgonna connect with it in the same way.
They connect with, oh my goodness.
Ryan went to this hotel and they gavehim this free thing so that he could go
and he told me what to eat and he toldme what to drink and he told me where
to fish, and he was like, make sureyou thank them for sending me out here
so I could share this with all of you.
There's an authenticity that if I'm afollower, you know, they're cult-like.
(12:54):
Right.
Totally.
So if they're a follower, they'regonna follow you when you lead them.
When you try and like have thesedisclosures that don't make sense
to them, I just feel like they'relooking at it as like, they're
not even discussing it with me.
They're just getting paid andthey don't really feel this way.
Does that make sense?
It does.
I just, that's what I think.
I don't know.
I could be wrong.
Probably not though.
(13:16):
Um, so as we wrap up, thank you somuch Ryan, for doing this with me.
Um, for those of you that don'tknow, Ryan and I have created a
spinoff of my podcast, special opspodcast called Marketing on Trial
because we've had so much fun.
He's had so much fun with me.
I've had a lot of fun not paying himto ask him a bunch of questions, a
lot of money, but he is a really goodattorney, so I'm super fortunate and
(13:36):
beyond blessed to be doing this with you.
So thank you.
If you want to get.
Notifications every timewe post a new episode.
Go ahead and like and subscribeso that you can do so.
Additionally, we have co-writtena influencer compliance checklist,
which is in our visionary vaultat www.specialopspodcast.com.
(13:58):
You can check out all thetools and courses in there.
We've co-written a few things,and we'll have all the stuff about
influencer compliance and whatto look for in your own business.
Thank you, Ryan.
Thanks, Emma.
Now granted, is that gonna get you out of a influencer?
(00:02):
Goes out there and says stuff that oneisn't truthful is false about the product.
So I see
Emma (00:06):
that and I send you a cease and desist take down notice
and you don't take it down.
Ryan (00:10):
Then the
Emma (00:10):
That's on the influencer.
Ryan (00:12):
That's gonna be at the influencer.
Because at that point, I mean if you'retalking to regulators, it's like we're
trying to actively get this down.
Like you can't just like send a letter andbe like, Hey, they'll break your links.
Break your links.
You're my lawyer,
Emma (00:22):
and you get to give me three, four steps that I need to take
every time I hire an influencer.
What is it?
Ryan (00:27):
Number one.
Make sure that.
Emma (00:33):
Did you know most influencer marketing is not legal?
Brands are paying influencerswithout proper disclosures, and
the FTC is coming after them.
I'm Emma Rainville, your co-host withRyan Pote of Gordon Reese, and we
have created a spinoff of special opspodcast called Marketing On Trial.
We've come together to help you implementtrue compliance into your direct
(00:56):
response online or e-commerce brand.
Our topic today is influencermarketing and how to be compliant.
If you stay till the end of the show,we're gonna have a checklist for you free
of charge called the Influencer compliant.
Checklist, so stay tuned for that.
Ryan, the state of influencer marketingin 2025, I actually, when we were going
(01:17):
through, we don't really plan theseout, but we were picking topics and
so when we were picking our topics,I said, ah, this one's probably gonna
be the most boring and the fastest.
And you're like, thisis the most important.
Why?
Ryan (01:28):
No?
Well, I think one of the biggestreasons is the FTCs trade
regulation rule on consumer reviews,endorsements and testimonials,
immediate access to civil penalties.
So that just ups the ante for compliance,but it's really easy to comply with.
It's just people do it incorrectly allthe time and just assume that they can
rely on the platforms or, you know,hope that their influencers are gonna
(01:50):
go out there and do exactly what.
What the brand has told them to do.
Emma (01:53):
Also, I think most brands that engage most influencers, they're
contacting each other and they haveno idea that there is compliance.
I believe that.
So can I give you a couple examples?
Sure.
We'll do three quick examples.
Hotel contacts.
Ryan, who has 120 followers because heloves fishing and he posts videos of
them fishing and he's not even reallymonetizing any of it, but the hotel
(02:14):
is on, like this fly fishing lake.
Is it a lake?
I don't know.
Um, this place where people like to fish.
And they contact you andsay, Hey, come stay for free.
Eat for free.
Drink for free.
Fish for free.
You paid to fish, I don'tknow, fish for free.
And just post about our place sothat the people who watch your
show will wanna come fish here.
Ryan (02:31):
Yeah.
That, that's gonna be a testimonialor endorsement the person is
receiving that they need to disclose.
That.
They need to disclose.
How do
Emma (02:36):
they disclose it?
Ryan (02:37):
A couple different ways.
Um, you could do it in the body of.
The endorsement.
Okay.
Or the testimonial be like, Hey, thisis Joe from Fish USA, or whatever it is.
You know, this is Joe, we're on thelake and so and so, they flew me out
here to show me this great place.
Like you're embedding this ina more organic way, saying,
Hey, like they brought me here.
I receive, yeah, I'm receiving all, sothere's a relationship with the brand and
(02:58):
that I'm being incentivized in some way.
And so that should putthe consumer on notice.
Hey, by the way, youmight want to be careful.
I mean, I'm getting something and so thismight have influenced what I'm saying.
Emma (03:07):
Okay.
Ryan (03:07):
But hopefully it's gonna reflect their experience.
Emma (03:09):
Okay.
Donut shop gets approachedby influencer who does lots
of taste tests of local food.
Mm-hmm.
Austin, Texas, where I live.
Local, tons and tonsand tons of local food.
We have a donut shop here that I won't.
Say the name, but we have a donutshop here that has the most incredibly
strange donuts you've ever seen,but they're allegedly delicious.
(03:31):
And so she contacts them and says,Hey, I'll make a TikTok of me tasting
your donut and telling everybody howamazing it is, and that if you're
visiting Austin, Texas, they should cometo Austin because I have Austin Eats.
Ryan (03:42):
Mm-hmm.
Emma (03:43):
TikTok.
Yeah, sure.
Come on and get a free donut.
I get in trouble from the FTC for that.
Ryan (03:47):
Now the second you start incentivizing them to
post something about you.
Yes.
Emma (03:50):
Even though they approached me,
Ryan (03:52):
even if they approached you, it doesn't matter.
I just
Emma (03:53):
gave 'em a free donut.
Ryan (03:54):
Doesn't matter.
Emma (03:55):
Third one.
Last one.
I'm a large brand and I sell $500 million.
And I approach a large celebrity andI pay them a hundred thousand dollars
to post my, using my brand fourtimes and they say, Ooh, I love that.
I partnered with so and so.
My skin is so much clearer now.
Ryan (04:15):
Mm-hmm.
Emma (04:16):
Compliant.
She's partnering.
Ryan (04:17):
Yeah.
I, I don't think you're gonnarun into an issue there 'cause.
I think for two reasons.
One really well-known celebrity.
Okay.
And then two, when they start, whenyou hire a really big celebrity,
Emma (04:26):
okay.
Ryan (04:27):
You know, insert famous person's name.
Sure.
And then they're like, look at mybrand of vodka or skin cream, or
whatever it is most of the time.
And there's a counter argumentfor that where the FTC address as
this and some guidance that, youknow, there, a reasonable person
would see this as like, well.
You know, you don't have like an A-listcelebrity sitting up there talking
about some product that they just loveout of the kindness of their heart.
(04:47):
They're being compensatedfor it, which is why when you
turn on the television, right?
Okay.
When you see George Clooney talkingabout an alcohol brand or the Kardashians
about something else, no reasonableperson's gonna think that they were
doing that just because they wanted.
I
Emma (05:00):
don't know that I agree with you.
Ryan (05:01):
Why,
Emma (05:02):
um, George Clooney, you know, he looks like an alcoholic to me.
Seems like, seems fair.
Just seems fair.
Maybe he's not, I don't know.
Definitely looks like he pushes some back.
But let's take the Kardashians.
There is no aspect of the Kardashian'slife that isn't lived out on tv.
From divorces to births, to lies,to big mistakes, to sisters fights,
to hair dye, to lip injections, tobotch surgeries, to mental illness.
Ryan (05:27):
Mm-hmm.
Emma (05:27):
Cheating.
Like they live everything.
They wake up in the morning,they get in their glam chairs.
You watch them get all of their stuff.
They talk about the things that theylove, their salads that they like.
Are they partnering with lemons?
Like you could certainly justtake it and think that it's
just part of their every day.
Ryan (05:44):
No, very true.
And that's why the FTC has comeout and said yes, using a celebrity
is like one of these factors,
Emma (05:50):
but saying partner is enough.
But
Ryan (05:51):
partner is not enough.
Okay.
To make a material connection,disclosure, there's really two portions.
Okay.
We need to put the consumer onnotice that there's a relationship
between you and the brand.
So we're partners.
We're partners, but then thewhether or not the person providing
that endorsement or testimonialis actually being incentivized.
So it's free for, can you believe
Emma (06:06):
I get paid to use this skincare product?
Ryan (06:09):
I think you're gonna be fine with that.
Emma (06:10):
Okay.
What if I just put hashtag ad?
Ryan (06:13):
Hashtag ad should be fine.
Okay.
Because you know I was about to do some.
Yeah, but it depends on where it's.
Where it's appearing.
So if you're on Instagram,is it below the fold?
And so is it, you know, hashtag ad atthe very end of a lengthy discussion
about the product buried amongst,you know, 15 Yeah, 80 hashtags.
That's what I was gonna say.
No, it needs to be at the top.
And the FTC says that it needs to
Emma (06:33):
be the first hashtag.
Yeah, it
Ryan (06:34):
needs to be the first hashtag, not only the first hashtag.
The FTC would say that it actuallyneeds to be above the text.
So you can get intothese debates with Okay.
Regulators over where it should be.
But the FTC is gonna saythe material connection.
Disclosure needs to be unavoidable.
You couldn't possibly miss this, that theconsumer would read this and understand,
okay, well this person's receivingsomething or it's an advertisement
or promotion for some sort of brand
Emma (06:54):
from an operational standpoint to not kill conversions.
I would choose my way where theperson is disclosing in a way that's
letting their audience who loves.
Them know that they love theproduct while still disclosing it.
Like, can you believe I got to partnerwith them and I get paid to actually do
this, or I get paid to use this product,or Can you believe that I get this product
(07:17):
for free just for posting it on here?
Like I would spendmoney on this every day.
You know what I mean, asyou're looking at yourself.
So I would certainly do it that wayfrom an, from an operational standpoint.
Ryan (07:26):
Well, yeah.
And so, so many of the platforms nowhaving the built in paid partnership.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Things like that.
Now the FTC has come out andsaid, you can't just rely on that.
But even their kind of discussionabout communic, you can't
Emma (07:36):
rely on it because it might not
Ryan (07:37):
show up
Emma (07:38):
every time.
It
Ryan (07:38):
might not show up every time, or it's not prominent enough.
Emma (07:41):
But if, if it shows up, is it enough?
Ryan (07:42):
Ryan's saying, I think it's fine, especially in the meta platforms.
I think it is very clear whenyou're using the paid partnership,
I mean, it's right at the very top.
I mean, you can't, it either
Emma (07:50):
says sponsor or paid partnership or can't.
Yeah, you can't, you can't
Ryan (07:53):
actually get to what they're saying without missing that.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, I guess if you're not,don't have your glasses on, but
I think that's pretty low risk.
Emma (07:58):
Okay.
Um, alright, so let's talk about risk.
I'm the brand, you're the influencer.
Um, we go into partnership, thedisclosures, the FTC doesn't feel
like the disclosures were enough.
They go after you or me.
Ryan (08:11):
Both could be liable, but practically it's gonna
be the brand every time.
Emma (08:14):
Okay.
Ryan (08:15):
Even if,
Emma (08:15):
even if our contract says that you're responsible.
Ryan (08:17):
Yes.
Um, I mean the contract is great to have.
Mm-hmm.
'cause you're gonna say, you know,the contract will say, I tried
Emma (08:23):
to in good faith,
Ryan (08:24):
yes.
Like, do what I'm
Emma (08:25):
supposed to do.
And this influencer'soff the fricking rails.
Ryan (08:28):
Like give them the material connection.
Disclosure and every single post thatyou put on social media about our
brand, this is what you must say.
Now granted, is that gonna get you out?
If an influencer goes out there and saysstuff that one isn't truthful is false
about the product, okay, and I see,
Emma (08:40):
I see that and I send you a cease and desist take down
notice, and you don't take it down,
Ryan (08:44):
then that's, that's on
Emma (08:45):
the influencer.
Ryan (08:46):
That's gonna be at the influencer.
Because at that point, I mean, ifyou're talking to regulators, it's like
we're trying to actively get this down.
Like you can't just likesend a letter and be
Emma (08:53):
like, Hey, but break your link.
Break your links.
Break your links that they'reusing if you do that, okay, I don't
wanna get too hung up on that.
Thank you.
That's really good information.
So if you, you're a brand andyou hire me as an influencer,
actually, I'm not gonna do that.
You're my lawyer and you going to giveme three, four steps that I need to
take every time I hire an influencer.
What is it?
Ryan (09:13):
Number one, make sure that the influencer actually uses the product.
So there have been instances whereyou have these influencers that just
like come to you and they're like,Hey, can I just promote your brand?
Can I promote your brand?
Like they just want eitherfree product or money.
They don't really carehow great the product is.
They just want to be something.
Yeah,
Emma (09:28):
absolutely.
Ryan (09:29):
Right.
So I mean, some of that goes authenticity.
I didn't know
Emma (09:31):
they had to use your brand.
Ryan (09:32):
Oh, they absolutely, they have to use the product
Emma (09:34):
at least once.
Right?
Ryan (09:35):
Well, like if they're saying if
Emma (09:36):
it's a product review,
Ryan (09:37):
well, product reviews are a little bit different.
Well,
Emma (09:40):
than product endorsements.
I understand.
We got two different,so we have two buckets.
We have two buckets.
Product review, product endorsement.
If you're gonna do a productendorsement, make sure that they're
continuously using your product.
Ryan (09:50):
Yes.
So if the endorsement'slike, I love this guy.
I love this skin cream.
This is why I use it every day.
Like, look, I don't have any wrinkles.
Like this is what I use on a daily basis.
If that's not true, then thatwhole endorsement or testimonials.
Is
Emma (10:02):
a line.
Ryan (10:03):
Yeah, exactly.
Emma (10:03):
It's, it's false.
Not false advertising.
Deceptive advertising.
Exactly.
Ryan (10:06):
Yeah.
I mean the first thing is make sure thatthey're actually gonna use your product.
Mm-hmm.
And look at what they're kind ofgonna be saying about your product.
Number two would be, if you areincentivizing any way, they need
to include a material connectiondisclosure, and that goes back to the
contract we were just talking about.
You can draft out the material connectiondisclosures that they need to present
in every single one of their ads.
Emma (10:22):
Whether it's, can you believe I get paid for this or do you believe
they send this to me for free?
Exactly.
Just 'cause I share it with you.
I'm so lucky.
Exactly.
Ryan (10:30):
And then I, I guess the third point is you might not, at certain size, you
might not be able to review every singleone of these testimonials or endorsements
that gets placed, but you need to havesome sort of audit or tracking process
in the back, on the back end of all this.
So whether it's the influenceremails and inbox somewhere that
has a link to all the ads that atleast someone at some period of.
(10:50):
Some interval is going on and youknow, either doing keyword searches
or something to figure out likewhat these people are saying.
I mean, there's an obligation onthe business to police what the
affiliates, not affiliates, what theinfluencers are saying on their behalf.
So those are the big, the threemain things that I would recommend.
Emma (11:04):
Awesome.
Before we wrap up, any final thoughts oninfluencer marketing and what's coming?
Ryan (11:09):
No, I mean, I think it's a great way to build brand engagement.
It is the most authentic way to do it, and
Emma (11:15):
brand reputation's important and
Ryan (11:17):
you know, I think we might disagree or come to, you know.
We would politely disagree onwhether or not some of these
disclosures affect conversion.
But I think at the end of the day,
Emma (11:27):
we've actually voided that in this podcast somehow.
I think that the, putting the ads,putting hashtag ad and saying nothing,
I think that will abso like I, Itrust you to share with me what you're
using is an influencer that I follow.
Yeah.
I don't follow influencers, butI'm talking about the mindset
of people who sit and watchother people's stuff constantly.
We know what I watch andit's not stuff like this.
(11:48):
Like murder mystery stuff.
But um, I think that when you bury it,and I know you, you're not burying it.
If it's the very top it says hashtag ad,I think it would have very low conversion.
I think it would have a muchhigher conversion to just
by being extremely upfront.
I am, I. Beyond blessed that this ismy life and this is my job, and I get
(12:09):
paid to share this with you all, or canyou believe that they send this stuff
to me for free just because of you?
Thank you guys for coming in and watchingand buying the products that I recommend.
Because of you, I get to do this.
Right?
So I think that that would be way higherconverting than these written disclosures.
(12:31):
Above the fold that you're talking about.
I just think that people just aren'tgonna connect with it in the same way.
They connect with, oh my goodness.
Ryan went to this hotel and they gavehim this free thing so that he could go
and he told me what to eat and he toldme what to drink and he told me where
to fish, and he was like, make sureyou thank them for sending me out here
so I could share this with all of you.
There's an authenticity that if I'm afollower, you know, they're cult-like.
(12:54):
Right.
Totally.
So if they're a follower, they'regonna follow you when you lead them.
When you try and like have thesedisclosures that don't make sense
to them, I just feel like they'relooking at it as like, they're
not even discussing it with me.
They're just getting paid andthey don't really feel this way.
Does that make sense?
It does.
I just, that's what I think.
I don't know.
I could be wrong.
Probably not though.
(13:16):
Um, so as we wrap up, thank you somuch Ryan, for doing this with me.
Um, for those of you that don'tknow, Ryan and I have created a
spinoff of my podcast, special opspodcast called Marketing on Trial
because we've had so much fun.
He's had so much fun with me.
I've had a lot of fun not paying himto ask him a bunch of questions, a
lot of money, but he is a really goodattorney, so I'm super fortunate and
(13:36):
beyond blessed to be doing this with you.
So thank you.
If you want to get.
Notifications every timewe post a new episode.
Go ahead and like and subscribeso that you can do so.
Additionally, we have co-writtena influencer compliance checklist,
which is in our visionary vaultat www.specialopspodcast.com.
(13:58):
You can check out all thetools and courses in there.
We've co-written a few things,and we'll have all the stuff about
influencer compliance and whatto look for in your own business.
Thank you, Ryan.
Thanks, Emma.
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