November 16, 2025 • 55 mins
My host platform's automatic AI title suggestions for this episode were:
- The Riotous Wrap
- Turning a Closing Panel into a Playful Showdown
- When a Nutrient Density Guy Meets A Festival Founder and a Referee (guess that's me!), Chaos Ensues
- Taste as Truth
- If A Carrot Had Wi-Fi, It Would Ghost Your Microwave
Gives you an idea. Today we conclude our series from the Grounded Festival here in Australia, with a grand finale of a different flavour. Festival founder, curator, farmer, writer, broadcaster, Matthew Evans, had offered the slot to Dan Kittredge, also a farmer, and globally renowned advocate for nutrient density (you may have heard him on the podcast for episode 250 while we were still in his native US).
Dan subsequently suggested to Matthew they do something different – that Matthew join Dan on stage, to challenge him a little. Matthew then turned to me to see if I’d round out the unholy trinity, in case Dan got out of hand (not really … well, maybe). Anyway, what everyone who was there that day all agreed on, was that this turned out to be a riot – a grounded, cosmic, hysterical end to a wonderful festival. And no one was spared.
Let’s head back to Galloway Springs Farm near Bridgetown WA, one more time.
Recorded 20 September 2025.
Title image: AJ, Matthew & Dan on stage (pic: Alan Benson).
See more photos on the episode web page, and for more behind the scenes, become a supporting listener below.
Early bird tix for Grounded 2026 are out now, with a 10% discount for podcast subscribers, with thanks again to the festival team (I’ve sent the code to you on Patreon and Substack).
Music:
Rowdy, by The Lonely Ramblers (from Artlist).
Regeneration, by Amelia Barden.
The RegenNarration playlist, music chosen by guests.
The RegenNarration podcast is independent, ad-free and freely available, thanks to the generous support of listeners like you. We'd love you to join us.
Become a paid subscriber to connect with your host, other listeners and exclusive benefits, on Patreon or the new Substack.
Or donate directly via the website (avoiding fees) or PayPal.
While you can also visit The RegenNarration shop. Come to an event. And please do share, rate and review the podcast.
Thanks for your support!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Matthew (00:00):
The idea with this session was for me to go, Dan,
you talk about some weird shit.
But I know you can talk aboutsome weirder shit.
And you know how I have thisthing, you know, if you've got a
recipe and you want to test it,don't do it at a dinner party.
You know, so he and I probablyshould have done this over a
beer.
AJ (00:22):
G'day, Anthony James here for The RegenNarration, your
ad-free, freely availablelistener-supported podcast,
exploring how people areregenerating the systems and
stories we live by.
Today, we conclude our seriesfrom the Grounded Festival here
in Australia with its grandfinale.
Well, it was the last session,and it had a bit of a different
flavour.
Festival founder, curator,farmer, writer, broadcaster
(00:45):
Matthew Evans had offered theslot to Dan Kittredge, also a
farmer and a globally renownedadvocate for nutrient density.
You may have heard him on thepodcast for episode 250 while we
were still in his native US.
Dan subsequently suggested toMatthew that they do something
different, that Matthew join Danon stage to challenge him a
(01:05):
little.
Matthew then turned to me tosee if I'd round out the unholy
Trinity in case Dan got out ofhand.
Well, not really.
Well, maybe.
Anyway, what everyone who wasthere that day all agreed on was
that this turned out to be ariot.
A grounded, cosmic, hystericalend to a wonderful festival.
And no one was spared.
(01:27):
Let's head back to GallowaySprings Farm near Bridgetown WA.
One more time.
Alright, everyone.
This is uh where you shuffleout quicker than you've had to,
unfortunately, if you're notgonna be in this session.
Uh, but if you are, welcome.
This is uh gonna be a uniqueone to bring us home, although
we're gonna have open mic afterthis too, but in terms of our
(01:49):
formal presentations.
Uh the nutrient densityconundrum.
I'm gonna introduce our guests.
I mean, I know I probably don'thave to, but but I want it for
those, I don't want to assumethat everybody knows who you're
facing.
So uh I'll give a briefintroduction to both our guests
and then we can uh delve intothe unique nature of what this
session's gonna be.
So Dan Kittridge has been anorganic farmer for more than 30
(02:12):
years and is the founder andexecutive director of the
Bio-Nutrient Food Association,BFA, a non-profit whose mission
is to increase quality in thefood supply.
Known as one of the leadingexponents of nutrient density,
all the way from Massachusetts,the USA, please welcome Dan
Kittridge.
Now, the bloke next to me,Matthew Evans, is chef turned
(02:39):
farmer, writer, broadcaster, andfood activist with Sadie
Crestman.
Is Sadie here?
Everyone probably knows Sadietoo, anyway.
She's working in the bar.
Matthew (02:50):
You've sent her to the drink.
I needed someone, uh, yeah, thethe yes, yeah.
She's she's she is yeah.
She gave me one glass of wineand wouldn't give me another
one, so so she's banished to thebar.
AJ (03:03):
So with Sadie, Matthew transformed an apple orchard
into Fat Pig Farm in Tasmania'sHewing Valley and inspired by
the UK's Groundswell Festival,co-founded this festival,
launched at Fat Pig in 2024, andbrought here now.
And heads up, we're heading toVictoria in 2026.
Yeah.
(03:24):
But for now, please welcomeMatthew Evans.
Over to you, Matthew.
Matthew (03:30):
Thank you.
So just uh uh uh first up, um,hands up if you were here
yesterday and got to hear Dan.
Anyone, oh well, do it theother way around.
That's too hard.
Do it the other way around.
Anyone who wasn't hereyesterday to hear Dan.
Okay, enough.
Okay.
Maybe the best thing is to ifDan does like the the potted,
can you do the potted version ofnutrient density, what it is,
(03:51):
what you're doing?
Can you do that for like tenminutes?
So we otherwise we don't frameit properly.
Potted?
Oh, brief.
Dan (03:57):
Brief.
Um do it much more briefly thanten minutes.
I see, has anybody ever had atomato uh picked ripe out of the
garden?
Has anybody ever had a tomatouh picked off the shelf in the
middle of the winter?
Do you know the difference inyour tongue?
That's what nutrient densityis.
(04:19):
Um we are wired throughevolution to discern what is
good for us and for our thenchildren and grandchildren if we
think about it properly, andwhat is not.
Uh we have very sophisticatedinbuilt nutrient monitoring
systems called tongues and andnoses.
And uh there's a massivevariation of nutrients in food.
(04:41):
Uh even though the governmentmay tell us that all apples are
uniform or all carrots areuniform or all beef is uniform,
um, that is categorically notthe case.
And um we're wired with theability to discern what's good
for us and what's not.
We call it flavor and aroma.
Um that variation is massive.
I run an organization, an NGO,I'm not sure what you guys call
them here, charities NGOs.
(05:02):
NGOs, we are.
Yeah, um, we call themnonprofits in the U.S.
Um educational organization.
I uh coined the term nutrientdensity almost 17 years ago to
um initiate this conversationaround this nutrient variation
in food, which I thought was areally important thing once I
figured out that it was a thing,and I didn't see the organic
people talking about it, or thebiodynamic people talking about
(05:24):
it, or the permaculturaliststalking about it, or the local
wars talking about it.
Everybody was assuming theywere better, but kind of
assuming everything was uniform.
Uh, but there wasn't reallyactually any proper thought
going into this conversation.
So, yeah, we've been doing abunch of research, um,
characterizing that the scale ofthat variation.
Um, I think I talked about itin some depth yesterday.
Starting in 2017 uh through2021, we took 10,000 samples of
(05:49):
crop from two continents from 25different types of crop uh from
hundreds of farms, grocerystores, farmers' markets, and
and looked at just a fewnutrients, and we found that the
variation, depending on whichnutrient we're looking at, was
uh 5x, 10x, 20x, 40x.
Matthew (06:07):
He means times when he says X?
X.
Dan (06:09):
So five times.
If you were to I didn't knowthat when I first heard that,
just in case.
Sorry, that's a science thing.
Um or uh or a I guess maybe itwas an economics thing.
Yeah, if you were to look atthe carrot with the highest
level of sulfur, it had fourtimes as much sulfur as the one
with the lowest level.
If you look at the carrot thathad the highest level of
antioxidants, it had 40 times asmany as the one with the lowest
(06:31):
level.
So um, there's a whole bunch ofdifferent nutrients in food.
Um we're taught to think aboutcopper and zinc and vitamin C
and vitamin D, and uh those areall sort of Western rational
constructs about individualnutrients, but actually what
we're evolved to eat is food.
Um, and we try to take apartfood into its component parts.
There's hundreds of thousandsor millions or even tens of
millions of different individualnutrients in food.
(06:54):
So this whole way of trying toidentify food through numbers of
individual nutrients is a bitof a false framing, but it's the
way the culture works now, andso we're playing along with it.
But the basic point is thatvariation in food is massive.
Um it connects to our noses andour tongues, it connects to our
(07:14):
health, it connects to thefunction of our you know
systems, whether they'rephysiological, psychological,
emotional, um, connects to thehealth of our children, connects
to uh the health of the soil,um, the function of the
ecosystem, and so I think thatthat roughly cover the question.
Matthew (07:33):
Yeah, that's great.
So the way and the work Dan'sdone is trying to look at, you
know, um, is there a differencein nutrient density?
What what what you know can youmeasure it and how how you
might you know what thosenutrients are, I guess, and and
and what uh how we can influencethat through farming systems.
So would that a sort of a briefsummary of what you've been
doing?
And and uh you know, is there ahandheld device for those of
(07:54):
you that weren't here yesterdaythat that um they a prototype
that they developed that you canpoint at one carrot versus
another carrot and show umhigher nutrients in one than
another, you you know, that youcould actually in theory put on
your have you know someone puton your phone to be able to tell
in the shop before you buy umone brand of carrots or one
farmer's carrots within another.
That's about it.
Dan (08:14):
Yeah, well um the the the vision is that people who buy
food, um who in many cases wantthe best for themselves and
their families when they buyfood should have the ability to
know of the three steak optionsor milk options or potato
options on the shelf, which oneis better, which one's worse.
(08:34):
And it doesn't seem tocorrelate with organic or local
or regenerative or any of theother marketing frameworks.
Um nutritional caliber is doesnot correlate with those things.
Um how would you know?
How would you be able ifthere's I mean I use the example
of carrots in the US andthere's I say there's bunny love
and there's bolt house farmsand there's calorganic.
(08:55):
Those are just three brands ofcarrots.
Um and if you were to look atthose three and say, I want the
one that's gonna taste the best,that's gonna have the highest
level of nutrients that mychildren are most likely to eat,
it's a bit of a crapshoot.
There's no way necessarily tobe able to discern that in real
time.
But there's a science calledspectroscopy, which is that
thing which is what we use toknow what stars are made up of
(09:15):
hundreds of millions of lightyears away, um, which basically
says everything in chemistry isa vibration in physics.
Um and effectively you canflash a light at something, and
by taking a picture of the lightbouncing off of it, you can see
what it's made up of.
And so the technology seems tobe there, like it is actually
this has already been done.
(09:36):
Smartphone companies have putin the camera, in the phone, a
mini spectrometer.
So the you know, the visionbefore this decade is out is
that many, many, many, manypeople have in their smartphone
a mini spectrometer with thecalibration set so that you pull
it out of your pocket, youflush it at the bag of carrots,
(09:56):
20 out of 100, 40 out of 100, 80out of 100.
So we can use the economicincentive, money being a
powerful vector in today's dayand age, to incentivize the
supply chain to focus on qualityas opposed to volume.
Right now, the wholeagricultural system is
effectively focused on volume,aesthetic and volume, um, and is
(10:18):
driven to apply lots ofchemistry, uh, whether it's uh
fertilizers or insecticides,fungicides, etc.
And we all know about thenegative implications of that.
So um it sure looks like, aswell, from our research, that
the thing that causes the levelsof nutrients to increase in
(10:39):
food is the function of themicrobiome.
So the greater the diversity,the greater the population of
the bottom of the food chain,the people who evolved us and
the people who evolved theplants, the microbes, the more
well they're doing, the morenutrients there are in the food.
The more chemistry you apply,generally, the less well the
microbes are doing.
So there's a direct negativeincentive to apply chemistry if
(11:01):
you're focusing on nutrition.
So we use the economicincentive to transform the
supply chain.
Matthew (11:06):
So I just want to unpack that a bit, because I was
I gave a talk uh a little whileago we talked about some of
these similar things in terms ofthe human capacity to tell
what's in food.
But if you look at what plagueshumanity, uh it's not um a lack
of terpenes, is it?
It's or polyphenols, likeantioxidants.
Isn't it like vitamin Adeficiency, iron deficiency,
(11:26):
protein deficiency are the bigproblems as uh you know in terms
of nutrition from that we thathumans are getting generally?
And uh and and your stuff isobviously looking at on a much
smaller scale, but if you've gotsay 150,000 chemicals in uh uh
known chemicals in in broccoli,um like how many of them do we
(11:48):
actually know are actuallyhaving an impact on human
health?
Dan (11:52):
What is human health?
What is flourishment?
You know, I mean in the US wehave this thing called an RDA,
the recommended daily allowance.
You know, you have an RDA forvitamin C, you have an RDA for
vitamin D, you have an RDA foriron and zinc, and the way they
determine the RDA is um how muchdo you need to not be dead?
Um so you can call it the MDA,the minimum daily allowance.
(12:17):
Um but doctors prescribe, callit what they prescribe, you
know, your choice of terms.
Um once you're diagnosed withan ailment, just because you're
not diagnosable with an ailment,does that mean you're healthy?
Um I would say there's acontinuum of vitality in humans,
we can call that one to ahundred.
One of our elders in this sortof community, my who I consider
(12:40):
being an elder, a guy named Dr.
Carrie Reims, said, I think,you know, you have to be below
30% in your vitality level tohave a disease be diagnosable.
So what do you need to functionoptimally and what do you need
to not be dead are two very farapart things.
What is the potential ofhumanity?
(13:01):
If we look at indigenouscultures and their apparent
profound capacity to perceiveand communicate, you know, my
understanding is part of that isbecause of the complex
biochemistry that they'reingesting.
Um so um I can't that there's abook, I think it's called Left
in the Dark, um, about the leftbrain and the right brain and
(13:23):
and you know our evolutionaryhistory.
And when we were earlierprimates and we were having lots
of fruit that had lots of colorand lots of intense flavor, our
left brains and our rightbrains were actually working
more well together.
We weren't they weren'tseparate.
Um and and our ability toperceive more subtle realities
was was normative.
(13:45):
So um, yeah, my understandingis that those secondary
metabolites, those things wecall flavor and aroma, um call
them polyphenols, call themterpenoids, call them alkaloids,
uh that's what uh we call themin science, you know, at high
levels are foundational in ourhigher level function.
So uh I think I said thisyesterday.
(14:06):
Um I personally have a bit ofan agenda um which is raising
consciousness.
Um I think that you know thepotential of humanity is
profound and the current levelof function is far from that.
And so um I see you knowimproving quality of the food
supply, I call it a spiritualcovert op.
Um through improving the natureof who we are, by improving the
(14:32):
nature of what we build ourbodies out of, our higher
potentials are then able tobecome more and more manifest.
So I'm not particularly I Idon't particularly care about
zinc and iron and vitamin C andvitamin D.
I think those are sort ofWestern rational constructs that
are coming from a reductionistparadigm and perspective.
What I'm concerned about isthat overall coherence of the
(14:56):
thing.
Um I was having a beautifulconversation with a woman from
Uruguay, I think, earlier today,uh, about prana and and
vibration and harmonics.
And um I what's that?
Matthew (15:10):
That vibrations and harmonics as an example.
Yeah.
That's my white cover.
AJ (15:17):
No, please, then uh one please.
Dan (15:29):
No, I'm good, I'm good.
Matthew (15:30):
I'm not gonna take your time.
No rush.
Yeah, what we want is bigpicture thingy at the end of the
day.
This is supposed to be a funsession, so that's great.
That's thank you for that.
Um not done.
I was I know, but what we wantis questions.
You hesitated, so I just wantthe I was being polite and
waiting for people to stoplaughing.
Just just I'm in the middle ofa stream of thought.
I know, but you keep thatstream thought.
I got it.
But we want your questions, sowe're gonna need you to actually
(15:51):
participate, maybe not likethat, okay, in a minute.
So just while he's talking,he's going after that's good
further than he would normallygo in these sort of talks.
Dan (15:59):
Okay.
Um I like to go as far as Ipeople will let me go, so this
is great fun.
I'm already heading off to thestratosphere.
Audience (16:06):
Um spiritual covert off.
I did.
Dan (16:09):
I I saw a couple nods.
I saw a couple nods.
I think we got some covert,covert spiritual people here.
Um I it's uh it's unfortunatethat um we all have this deeper
reality which guides us, most ofus actually, that we don't feel
comfortable talking about, thatwe don't even actually
necessarily even have languagefor.
(16:30):
Um so I would say that's that'spart of the opportunity here is
is is to feel is to begin tonorm normalize that and to own
that and to feel comfortable andconfident in that.
Um but we can get back to that.
I do want to finish my topicabout the coherence.
Um I think you know vibrationalcoherence, you know, is
(16:51):
actually what I want.
When I started this vision ofbuilding a meter and building a
tool, what I wanted was acoherence meter.
I wanted a meter that couldtest the vibrational coherence
of the food.
Because I don't think itactually is about the nutrients.
I think it's about theharmonics and the vibration, the
octaves of resonance.
You know, what is the nature ofall the compounds, right?
(17:13):
This whole concept of compoundsand things, right?
Like water is considered to bea compound and protein is
considered to be a compound.
If you actually pull them allapart, there's a there's a
lipid, there's a protein,there's a whatever, DNA is a big
one.
98% of the compounds in yourbody are water.
People know about the magicthat is water?
This harmonic vibrationalresonant liquid crystal, like
(17:35):
propagating frequency, likeprojecting frequency, receiving
frequency, right?
We're actually functionallyantenna systems.
That's really what's going onhere.
Is this it's uh is life isengaging through vibration.
That's how that's how lifeseems to communicate.
The shape of a leaf looks likean antenna.
Insects on their heads haveantenna.
That's how they perceive whatplants are fit to eat and which
(17:55):
plants are not, is by theirvibe.
Right?
This is actually the way naturecommunicates, it's through
vibration.
That's how we're able tocommunicate with the trees and
the plants and the animals andthe nature spirits, is through
harmonics, is through vibration.
We have this Western rationalphysical plane paradigm where
taught is reality, and even thephysicists tell us it's only
(18:16):
90%, it's 5% of reality.
The physical plane is 5% ofreality, according to the
physicists.
95% is somewhere else.
It's not on the physical plane,it's in the these other octaves
of reality.
That is the fact, according tothe scientists, and we're all
talking about the physicalplane, as though that's
everything.
(18:36):
Right?
I mean, that's just acompletely stupid thing to do if
you think about it, but wecontinue to do it without
thinking about it because that'swhat we're trained to do.
Um I wanted a coherence meter.
Um and so's that going step bystep.
I got my end game, I know whereI'm going.
I'm playing along like, youknow, I'm in, I'm we're gonna do
(18:58):
a scientific experiment, we'regonna get everything randomized,
replicated trials, we're gonnado triplicate samples, we're
gonna look at the microbiome,we're gonna look at the
biochemistry, we're gonna dostatistical significance and
publish in nature, right?
So hide behind the Westernrational empirical framework
because that's where the that'swhere the zeitgeist is, that's
where the industry is, that'swhere you can uh achieve formal
(19:18):
legitimacy, but never stoptalking about the fact that
there's a hell of a lot moregoing on out there, and that's
where we're headed.
So um what I was saying aboutwater and harmonics and
vibration, um, you know, thevast majority of our of our body
is is that is water.
We are vibrating the liquidcrystal, and that's the vast
(19:40):
majority of what plants are,right?
It's the vast majority of whatmilk is, it's the vast majority
of what meat is.
I don't think it's so muchabout the biochemistry of the
plant.
I think it's much more aboutthe harmonic of the plant.
But that's going to be a moreexpensive, more time-consuming,
you know, down-the-trackprocess.
So um there's a big, a bigagenda here over time.
(20:02):
Really, of course, as I saidbefore, we shouldn't need
external instruments.
It's not about externalinstruments, it's about tuning
the instrument that God gaveyou.
Right?
This instrument of perception,which is the thing you carry
around with you, you beingdifferent from the instrument of
perception is the thing we needto be remembering.
Right?
(20:22):
It's not about the telescopeand the microscope and the
spectrometer, it's about thismultidimensional, multi-octave,
profound instrument that wecarry around with us, and
remembering that that is wheretruth resides.
And each of us has our owntruth.
What's right for me is notright for you.
How do I know?
Because it makes me feelbetter.
(20:44):
If something makes me feel lessgood, that's my
multidimensional instrument ofperception communicating with
me.
We're not taught to attune,attend to that perception which
is immediately available to allof us.
Right?
And we can't actually makeright decisions until we
(21:07):
actually begin to put ourattention where it belongs,
which is within.
If that thing we're carryingaround with us is vibrating out
of tune, it's having a hardertime giving us good information.
We're having a harder timetuning into it to perceive that
deeper guidance.
So strategically, we have tofigure out how to get those
(21:28):
instruments of perception, whichare the bodies we carry around
with us, to vibrate moreharmoniously, to guide us in our
deeper selves more well.
Um that's the agenda withnutrient density that I'm trying
to accomplish.
Who thought it would go there?
Well, yeah.
AJ (21:47):
I'd love to I want to come I also want to come back to you
on this.
But to pick up because you youended up where I was already
going, but I want to take thesegue from it then, Dan, that so
the material reality's well,physical plane, five percent of
reality, yet vital.
So yeah, it's interesting tohear you talk like that, but to
(22:10):
think that nutrition in our foodmatters.
It's like it's critical.
We even being a you know, aslither of reality, it's a lot
of people.
Dan (22:19):
Well, the food is not, I mean, so the harmonic of the
water in the cucumber, is itvibrating harmoniously, you
know, on five octaves?
Or did it get irradiatedbecause of food safety and now
it's like dissonant?
And it may have a properbalance of quote unquote proper
balance of polyphenols and andcopper and zinc, but the actual
(22:41):
harmonica of it's not there.
What happens when you microwavethings?
I mean, not even talking aboutwhat kind of state of mind are
you in when you eat?
Are you angry?
Did you just have a fight?
How was the cooking done?
Did you cook with love?
Were you joyfully and lovinglywith passion cooking for your
family, or were you pissed andresentful?
(23:02):
And I damn it, I had to cookagain, and I'm just gonna throw
it together.
Or was it a you know aprocessed product that in
factory you know isolated andput into a bar and is a designed
to maximize profit?
Right?
I mean these are deeperquestions about what the hell
(23:23):
where is going on here.
AJ (23:25):
Um I feel like it's a good opportunity for me to ask you a
question.
Matthew (23:29):
Oh, I'm just I've been left a long way behind in this
conversation.
AJ (23:39):
So, as the boy who was brought up by a scientist and
has talked about uh well writtenso much and talked about that,
but but I sense has come to whatyou used to call woo-woo a
little over the years.
How are you hearing that?
Matthew (23:58):
Yeah, that's a great question.
You were picking up on a lotthere.
Um anyone else clenching in theaudience as he was talking?
I don't know.
Uh yeah, look, I said tosomeone earlier, like uh, uh,
because they were saying, Oh,this is really I didn't expect
it to be like this.
Yeah, so all like kumbayarcircles and woo-woo, you know,
and here we are.
Um Heidi's session, yes, so wedid it, you know, not quite, but
(24:23):
we had a singing circle andstuff.
But like that's actually themagic.
Look, I've just read a bookcalled The Light Eaters, I don't
know if anyone's seen that, butthis is a really great book
about how plant intelligence,right?
And there's these plants inSouth America that that can
mimic other plants.
So they essentially grow, it'sa vine, it grows next to another
plant, and it can mimic theexact colour and leaf, well, not
always exact, it's hard withvariegated leaves and other
(24:44):
things, but they can they canpretty much mimic the plant next
to them, right?
How does it do that if it can'tsee?
You know, so so this bookthat's about it's all science, a
science writer out of the US,it's a pretty hard book to buy
in Australia at the moment, butum it's all stuff that that
science is having a real problemexplaining, you know, and this
idea we know we can measurethese, you know, these uh um you
(25:06):
know electromagnetic fields outyou know, distance from humans,
we know that that we don'tfinish here in in microbiome or
in our energy fields and allthat kind of stuff.
And I think a lot of us havequestions about shit that we
can't explain that science hastrouble explaining.
So I probably, you know, thisis why we want to have a session
like this, because I'dprobably, you know, I don't
Dan's the idea with this sessionwas for me to go, Dan, you talk
(25:29):
about some weird shit.
But I know you can talk aboutsome weirder shit.
And you know how I have thisthing, you know, if you've got a
recipe and you want to test it,don't do it at a dinner party,
you know.
So he and I probably shouldhave done this over a beer.
AJ (25:48):
You do get the rough draft.
Matthew (25:49):
But you're getting a rough draft, yeah, exactly.
So yeah, no, that's my view.
Is it's is like, and I knowyou're you're probably much more
attuned to this sort of stuffthan me, but when I look at the
scientific field and I look atthe stuff we can't explain, and
I look at the miracle of plants,which is what I'm delving into
at the moment, there is so muchwe cannot explain through
through the normal scientific ummethod, you know, because they
seem to be able to hear, theyseem to be able to talk, they
(26:10):
seem to be able to see, um, andyet they don't have a central
nervous system, eyes, ears, andbrains.
I d completely disagree withyou.
Dan (26:19):
Good.
The the science So thescientific method is a method,
and it you know even in formalWestern rational peer-reviewed
published papers, the science isthere to explain these things
you're talking about.
It may not be in the mainstreamuniversity literature, but go
to Russia to check out thispiece, go to you know, Brazil to
(26:42):
check out that piece.
This is whenever I teach mycourses, I spend the last hour
and a half on the literaturewhich explains the rest of it
all.
We actually do have in theWestern rational, you know,
peer-reviewed, publishedliterature formal logical uh
explanations for all thesedynamics.
(27:04):
So um that's what's exciting tome, is it actually can be
explained.
There is a logical pathway.
Give me any question and I canyou know direct you to uh uh
what it seems to me, what Ithink is actually a a very
viable you know causalrelationship for these dynamics.
AJ (27:18):
It's interesting to hear you say that today.
Dan (27:20):
I love science.
Science is beautiful.
Science is a method of of offinding truth, right?
It's it's the you know you youexperiment, you try this and see
what happens, you it try thatand see what happens, develop a
theory, you know, test it testit over and over again.
That the scientific method is ais I call it you know the
opportunity to find a linguafranca.
(27:41):
Instead of having us each haveour own perspectives, which are
all great, but they're alldifferent perspectives, the
scientific method is a way thatwe can identify what seems to be
truth.
I'm I'm a big fan of it.
I just think you know what it'slike science gets a bad name
because it's oftentimes used forpropagandistic purposes.
That makes it not science.
That makes it propaganda.
(28:03):
Right?
There's there's spiritualitywhich is profound, and then
there's religion.
Religion oftentimes pervertsspirituality, right?
Um God, I love, call what youwant to call it, I think it's a
real thing and it's reallyprofound.
A lot of things that are donein the name of God are perverse
and and dark, right?
That doesn't make them actuallyworking in the name in the
(28:24):
truth of what God is, that's aperversion of it.
So science as well is used inthat way, but that's has to do
with ego, that has to do withthe foibles of humanity, not
with the principle of the thing.
AJ (28:34):
It's really interesting to see hear you say that, Dan.
And you know, I was alreadythinking about Einstein in this
context as someone who didnominally link him up in his own
mind and how he went about eventapping creativity as he used
to talk about.
But thinking about culturalstories, and that his work was
what, a hundred years ago orsomething, yet we're still such
(28:56):
a heavily reductionist culture.
So I I take stock of whatyou're saying about that the
science is there, but it's notpervading the cultural story,
because even his science hasn'treally pervaded the cultural
story.
Dan (29:10):
To say that we are all operating from a similar culture
is is completely ridiculous.
Right?
I mean, you go into any townand any country on any
continent, and you go on a roadand you talk to the people in
each house on that road, and youtalk to each person in each
house, and they all havecompletely different
(29:31):
perspectives.
Right?
There is no uniform, dominantcultural paradigm.
Like we all each secretly haveour own perspectives.
What I find when I talk topeople, and I talk to a lot of
people in a lot of places, ismost of them are coming from a
pretty deep place.
And so we can like project ontoculture, like, oh, this bad, oh
that bad, oh, so many badthings.
But if you actually go and talkto people and you get involved
(29:53):
in a deep conversation, mostpeople, in my experience, are
operating from a pretty profoundplace.
And it's really exciting.
you know, i from a professionalposition to be now in a place
where I'm talking to people atmajor multinational
corporations, at major globalphilanthropies, at major
researchers in Washington, D.C.
(30:14):
and government in like quoteunquote places of power where
all the dark forces are and youfind the people in those places
are actually really good, deep,well-meaning people who are
operating from a very high levelin a lot of cases.
So I don't think it does us anygood to continue to say these
(30:35):
things negative about ourselves.
And that's not even talkingabout the indig indigenous
peoples right who are also here,who are completely being
ignored and othered or you knowdisappeared by that statement.
I I really don't think it helpsto have these kind of frames
and to repeat them.
Sorry, that's just a pushbackthere.
Audience (30:55):
I need to be sorry.
Dan (30:56):
Well not sorry, I don't want to be yeah whatever.
There I've said it.
Do you want to go questions?
Matthew (31:04):
I haven't seen your hands go up.
AJ (31:05):
You shut them both down so there we go to you guys.
Who's next?
Yeah.
Give me another one.
Audience (31:14):
Sorry Matt I'm gonna uh keep going with Dan on this
one.
So uh it's a great topic and Iabsolutely love it.
Um what are you doing?
This is just for me to try andunderstand on a personal level
on a day-to-day level what areyou doing to keep that vibration
um and um harmony in your lifeand in your body um not as much
as I should or could um um whatam I doing?
Dan (31:35):
I like vibrating um can we dive deeper into that something
different in America I don'tthink I've ever seen a vibrator
(31:56):
in my entire life um so um yeahI I think I touched on it
yesterday but I spent some timeearly in my life up in the
Himalayas and I practiced thescience of the East which is
thousands of years older thanthe science of the West their
books are thousands of yearsolder than our books.
(32:17):
It's profound it'smultidimensional they have a
regular practice of havingpeople achieve enlightenment as
like a sign of success in theirculture.
It's not a PhD it'senlightenment is success in that
culture.
Like for starters let's getsome humility about hey how many
of us are there Westerners andhow many non-Westerners are
(32:39):
there?
Just just just for contextright all the all the Westerners
is like one billion if you takeAustralia you take Europe you
take North America you're you'renot even quite maybe right 1.4
in India 1.4 in China anybodyever been?
Like they operate from adifferent set of assumptions
(33:00):
just so we're clear the thethings we've been trained we're
a minority those of us who areoperating from this Western
rational quote unquote paradigmis not normal.
This is not normal in humanityA in time or B in sheer number
of humans um so there's ascience of the East that is
thousands of years old whichteaches you how to cause and
effect do this have that resultdo this have that result um I
(33:24):
found it in the Vedas um thetantras the techniques are there
I can direct anybody to aseries of books which you can
buy for $10 $15 which willtransform your frickin' life
it's right there in English inprint if you want.
And so you do that for a coupleminutes a day or 10 minutes a
day or 20 minutes a day.
I did that for two winters inthe Himalayas in 99 and 2000.
(33:48):
And I'm still running on theresidual of that like I wake up
in the morning and I whateverchakra is flowing I just lay
there in bed and vibrate and Ijust let that higher octave of
vibration sort of resonatethrough my body.
So that's what I mean byvibrating.
I like it it's fun it really isdeeper pleasure than anything
(34:10):
else.
It's profound pleasure just tolay there in that octave to be
able to tune your perspective tothat octave and use this
instrument of perspectiveperception to engage like it's
it's amazing what's out there.
It's amazing what we have neverbeen exposed to that to like it
(34:30):
there's so much it's amazing tothink that the human body is
such a multidimensionalinstrument of perception and
communication you know TysonYoung Caporte is probably not a
fella you've heard of I have youhave okay Sandtalk?
AJ (34:49):
Yeah Sandtalk exactly yeah so in Sand Talk in fact there
was a line where he said there'ssomething he thinks about every
day and as I'm reading the bookand we're about to do a podcast
I'm thinking every day?
Far out so I'm gonna ask him Iask him no one's asked him about
that in a podcast before hehe's in tears about it.
(35:09):
This moment that moved him somuch and it was viewing some
footage of Andaman Islanderssome years prior.
You've heard this right I knowwhat the Andaman Islander is
yeah wow exactly I mean how theyhow they escaped the tsunami
for example they knew it wascoming and the machinery didn't
yeah that the stories can becompounded.
But Tyson remembers thisfootage of first contact no less
(35:31):
he describes it sort of likethis that there's this couple
man and woman equally as rippedas each other and with a
fierceness in their eyes youknow he says as if to say what
to the camera and he never wasable to track it down again but
he never forgot it and it was ait was a touchstone for him and
then for our conversation fromthat point on around well he
(35:54):
used the terminology superhumanbut only relative to as he would
say the fragmentation of whatwe've become in this moment.
Yeah but that that was a norm.
Dan (36:03):
And I think about that when I hear you say that's the
inherent potential of us all andthe effect of colonization is
to separate us from that.
That's the essence of everychild that's born is the and
every child that's born is thatpotential is there in them and
what we do is profound childabuse in perverting them to fit
(36:25):
into this atrocious dynamic.
So to me thinking strategicallyforward the real question is
how can we create a dynamicwhere the children that are born
are able to have their truenature become manifest.
Right?
And when where I come from wehave this um what do they call
it the the law of the sevengenerations every decision
(36:49):
that's taken has to pass musterwith the question will this
cause my descendants sevengenerations forward to be better
if I do this instead of thatevery single decision has to
pass that test.
I think I mean I'm 48 now andlike not a kid anymore.
(37:10):
I'm not getting that old yetbut I'm 50 is like close.
I'm getting to start thinkingabout this.
I'm getting to start thinkingabout this and like
strategically culturally how dowe need to be orienting
ourselves and and for me theseare the critical questions how
do we create a dynamic so thatmaybe in two generations our
(37:31):
children are not perverted soprofoundly by these dynamics of
what we call culture.
Right?
I mean because the essence ofthat brilliance of that
superhumanness is is is ourbirthright is the essence of
what each of us is and that'sjust I mean these are the things
we I I think need to be likeinstead of fighting this talking
(37:53):
bad about this like there's amillion things you can easily
get worked up about like oh thisis bad blah blah blah blah blah
how about every singleconversation is how can we
optimize?
What's the best path forward?
What can we do better?
How can I help?
Right?
I mean it's what questions youask where you put your attention
and your and your intention isthe reality you create.
(38:16):
Right we can we are brilliantprofound creators it's just the
question is what are wecreating?
Audience (38:25):
Where's Tegan?
Got someone beauty um NikolaiTesla the the father of what we
call the modern world inventedmulti-power systems but he was
all about vibrations all hiswork and a lot of that's been
suppressed my sense is thethings that are happening around
the world we're in a realtipping point in history what's
(38:46):
happening in America with theMaha movement and you know the
the the the food system we'vegot's been driven by marketing
and the media and what you'retalking about is getting back to
first principles.
How do we get that message outto the the wider population of
eaters?
We've got this thing aboutconsumerism and consumers but I
like to think we need to talkabout eaters not consumers.
Dan (39:09):
Um I'm doing what I can do um I think each of us there's
eight billion of us plus orminus each you know if we each
do what each of us can do that'sall we can do.
It's not about you know as soonas you start thinking about
other people you're missing thepoint because you can't control
other people the only thing youcan control is you and the only
(39:30):
thing you can do is the best youcan do.
So get your head out of thefuture get your head out of
other people and get into themoment and say you know what can
I do now and then say it againwhat can I do now and keep doing
that all day long every daygoing forward.
There's nothing else what can Ido now?
What is my unique calling whatam I called to do from within
(39:52):
you know we each have a piece ofthe puzzle and the more of us
that you know step into ourpieces more deeply the more
rapidly you know things wellthat is what will decide what
happens is how each of usengages our own lives I would
say but we're gettingphilosophical here not talking
about nutrient per se we had totranscend the conundrum that we
(40:16):
were put up with huh?
I have said this is the secondhalf of my career.
No one's I haven't said thatpublicly yet I haven't explained
what the second half of mycareer is yeah um thanks very
much um apologies I in terms ofsentience for trees and stuff I
think Matthew was touching onthat example but there's
actually a research study donein UWA Gagliano that proved that
(40:38):
ran the Pavlov's dog experimentwith plants and proved there is
a consciousness.
So we're the you know we justneed to accept that and get
start looking deeper into thatbut my interest is in the is the
organization of intelligencewithin beings such as plants
that that have this armory ofchemical responses and and needs
(41:00):
that so obviously it's adepository of intelligence
somewhere we we have a brain wethink the intelligence held on
the on the electric synapse butI think it's actually held in
the organisation of water and II I think one of your lecturers
at one of your nutritionalconferences was starting to deep
dive into the organise theability of water to organize and
(41:22):
to code and it do you have youkind of looked further into that
that kind of space in terms ofscience because that's pin that
really would start to pinprickwhere uh the power of intention
placed with water and obviouslyDr.
Emoto I think it was a Japaneseguy kind of proved the ability
(41:42):
to put personality so justprobably some enlightenment is
is there any more advance inthat space and your perception
of the the water as the truevessel of intelligence?
I don't think water is the truevessel of intelligence.
I think water is the is thephysical form vibrating liquid
crystal through whichcommunication comes and goes I
(42:06):
think it's the matrix that youknow holds the vibration that we
propagate into the environmentand that receives vibrations
from the environment that it's avibrating liquid crystal that's
what it that how it serves andwe're just a basically a doped
bag of water like as in we're abig bag of water with a few
other things in it.
And what we're basically doingis functioning as antenna to
(42:29):
perceive frequencies coming atus and then through the
vibrations we're holding we'repropagating frequency into the
environment.
Where intelligence is held orwhat is intelligence or is it
intelligence or is itconsciousness I think there's a
really good book called TheField.
Anyone know the field?
Yeah Lynn McTaggart thank youvery much yeah Lyndon McTaggart
(42:52):
uh was an investigativejournalist who did this research
uh talking to two uhneuroscientists asking them
where memories are stored and umanybody know where memories are
stored?
Exactly in the field uh yeah itit seems that our you know that
our our neurons these braincells right anybody know about
(43:14):
the neurons there's a bunch ofthem in their in your brain
right there's a bunch of them inyour heart there's a bunch of
them in your gut so if an organfull of neurons is a brain then
functionally we all have threebrains and that neuron is
basically this long filamentoushair which is functioning like
an antenna which is which ispicking up vibrations from the
field around it.
(43:34):
Women actually have a fourthorgan full of neurons called a
uterus so I like to say um youguys have four brains we have
three so never give us a hardtime don't say that's what they
gotta go easy don't give us ahard time don't give us a hard
time like there we go I'm withyou again no it's it's we are
(43:59):
who we are you are who you arelike don't expect us to be who
you are like we can't see whatyou can see.
Don't anyway um in Sanskritthey call it the Akashic record
the field right I mean when whenSteiner was asked how did you
figure out all these things he'slike duh it was in the Akashic
record.
What's the Akashic record?
That's a Sanskrit term.
I like to say if you were tohave a a pool of totally still
(44:23):
water and chuck a rock into itand somebody was to come around
a corner ten seconds later andlook at that pool they could see
what happened right based onthe ripples.
Well every thought you havesends a ripple into the
space-time continuum everyaction has a ripple imagine that
(44:45):
imagine that everything has aneffect right that's not too far
out of the realm of science onsome level everything you do
every heart every feeling youhave that anger that love every
idea every action effectivelyhas a ripple and what the
antenna of our brains do is readthe ripples so that's my
(45:10):
understanding um is that the soyeah I'm not sure that covers it
but still with us?
Audience (45:15):
Oh yeah I was thinking about you know what's the
dinner man that was a factionthat was trying to be a faction
picked up on the vibration soyou get over to you who we got
(45:42):
yep I'm interested more in thespectrometer given that we're
not all farmers and we need atrade so that there's the money
the capitalism how do you have aplan on like how to portray
quality of food like obviouslythis is an example and like
sharing is a big example butthen like on that you know that
(46:05):
broad scale corporate level Isuppose it which is the world
we're living in like how can thespectrometer like this is the
instrument you're going with howcan that help you or help us to
understand that this food isbetter like how can you explain
that to I don't know the the thelay person or the average
person in this world?
Dan (46:25):
I think I want to take that um and go a little bit
different direction because Iit's a big long conversation and
covered it pretty wellyesterday.
There's something I do want todo here today and I don't know
how much time we have left soI'm gonna just do it right now.
I almost never ever ever get onstage with an intention or a
plan to do anything.
That's not the case.
Today I got on stage with anintention and a plan to do
(46:47):
something and I haven't yet doneit.
Yeah.
This was just the curtain riserwhere we're going where we're
going Matt as I said a bit agoum the future doesn't exist uh
(47:12):
we can all have our sort ofgeneral like intentions or
trajectories we're aiming towardthe most important thing is now
the moment now and what can wedo now?
So in the trajectory of thevision of the spectrometer there
is something we can do now wecan have a thing in our hand
which we can use to measure thequality of food which we can
(47:34):
actually tell other people aboutand help them understand and
engage a shift in purchasingpurchasing and you know have
that begin to ripple forwardthrough the supply chain and all
of its other implications.
We are at the BFA at the finalstages of this thing we're
calling the BRICSit uh kit.
People have heard of therefractometer um it's been
(47:55):
around I think 195 years um andI don't think I need to go into
depth about what it is therefractometer measures bricks um
so effectively what we're doingat the BFA is is we're building
this app.
We're taking a refractometerand a garlic press and we built
a little a little coin that youstick in the garlic press to
keep the pulp from comingthrough.
And we built an app and sowe're inviting people to take
(48:16):
their shopping take an extra 10minutes take a chunk out of each
zucchini and carrot and tomatoand cucumber squish it and
upload onto the app the numberalong with the date of purchase
the point of purchase and thebrand and so the thought is if
you get 10 people in any giventown or city to begin doing that
(48:36):
in fairly short order you beginto have a database which says
generally this brand at thisstore is better than that brand
or generally stuff at this storeis better than that store or
generally this farmer at thefarmer's market is better than
that farmer at the farmer'smarket.
This is something we haven'tyet released.
I'm hoping we'll release itnext month but I have the
(48:57):
world's very first kit that Iwant to give to someone who I
think is extremely special.
So I think I did with a ball oflove I don't know how many
(49:26):
people go to how many events andconferences and how many places
but I go to a bunch and I justwant to say what you guys do
with this grounded event havedone now two for two is
completely epic.
Absolutely completely epic mesquirm again every single little
(49:58):
thing is thought about I I'vegot the toilet he was timing he
was timing sunset with dinnerright like every single little
thing this it's the vibe on theland, the people the speakers
the the whole thing it's so it'sso whole and I just want to
(50:22):
really acknowledge that andaffirm that and appreciate that
because it's it is really reallyunique.
AJ (50:35):
Matthew Evans Dan Kittredge Thanks guys thank you all for
being here as we wrap up themain program thanks for having
me too what a week it's been inWA huh what a week to to have
this crown that week is huge.
I want to just dig down alittle bit into the thank yous I
(50:57):
did see Georgie at the back isOllie around too but you
probably if you haven't metOllie and Georgie and Nadia the
team that accompanies Matthewwe'll probably have them up
later at the thing so yeah greatshe's just talking she won't
hear me but yeah we'll we'llmake a big deal of them later
but um but thank you to thewhole team Matthew Sadie
(51:18):
obviously and of course Teganover here thank you very much
and all the volunteers really uhwho's made this happen the
presenters obviously and thesponsors too you know you you
called it out at the top Matthewit just couldn't happen without
and much less at the pricewe're managing to access it at
uh our hosts the Johnson familyhere at Galloway Springs of
(51:38):
course yeah in fact in fact Istarted today and and bless
perhaps some of you were in herewith a massive roar to send out
across the fields to anyone whoplayed a part in making really
to now to everyone who made thishappen the way it did.
So can we sum the biggest roarand applause we can right in
(52:00):
this moment to send that out toeverybody hip hip a rady That's
a wrap for Grounded 2025.
Thank you again to the groundedcrew for generously providing
that recording and of course toyou supporting listeners for
(52:22):
making this episode possible.
Enormous thanks to Julia Holtfor your very generous support
this week sent with no way ofthanking you but this and simply
writing thanks for the podcast.
Special thanks to to two moreof the most generous supporters
of this podcast for over fouryears now Peter Bate and Ed
(52:43):
Surgeon.
So grateful for the three ofyou.
If you'd like to join us bepart of this great community get
some exclusive stuff includinga discount to the next grounded
festival all while helping tokeep the show going, I'd love
you to.
Just head to the website or theshow notes and follow the
prompts.
EarlyBird ticks for Grounded2026 are out now with a 10%
(53:06):
discount for podcast subscriberswith thanks again to the
festival team.
I've sent the code to you onPatreon and Substack for you to
see wherever you subscribe.
This will be Grounded's biggeststaging yet this time at the
legendary Stewart's farm in theOtways of Victoria in April.
You might remember KristyStewart back in episode 132 on a
(53:28):
special spot for her on thatfarm.
I'll be there fresh off ourMurray River course and hope to
see you there too.
The Grounded podcast is alsoclose at hand it'll launch soon
with all their recordings sofar.
And finally you can find a fewmore photos from today's panel
conversation on TheRegenNarration website the music
(53:50):
you're hearing is Regenerationby Amelia Barden.
My name's Anthony James thanksfor listening just request
(54:35):
because we're gonna be on washup duty so we won't get back to
the mic but we really want tojust quickly say something Oh if
you're if you're doing thewashing thank you okay so the
the question that that we put uphere is why don't I lick my
(54:57):
plate so raise of hands who herelicks their plate clean? Al
right out of everyone else whowould be willing to give it a go
to lick their plate for thegreater good?
it's the best part of the dishit has got all the oils and the
(55:25):
flavors and when you lick it offthe plate it doesn't end up in
the washing water.
It keeps it clean and great
The idea with this session was for me to go, Dan,
you talk about some weird shit.
But I know you can talk aboutsome weirder shit.
And you know how I have thisthing, you know, if you've got a
recipe and you want to test it,don't do it at a dinner party.
You know, so he and I probablyshould have done this over a
beer.
AJ (00:22):
G'day, Anthony James here for The RegenNarration, your
ad-free, freely availablelistener-supported podcast,
exploring how people areregenerating the systems and
stories we live by.
Today, we conclude our seriesfrom the Grounded Festival here
in Australia with its grandfinale.
Well, it was the last session,and it had a bit of a different
flavour.
Festival founder, curator,farmer, writer, broadcaster
(00:45):
Matthew Evans had offered theslot to Dan Kittredge, also a
farmer and a globally renownedadvocate for nutrient density.
You may have heard him on thepodcast for episode 250 while we
were still in his native US.
Dan subsequently suggested toMatthew that they do something
different, that Matthew join Danon stage to challenge him a
(01:05):
little.
Matthew then turned to me tosee if I'd round out the unholy
Trinity in case Dan got out ofhand.
Well, not really.
Well, maybe.
Anyway, what everyone who wasthere that day all agreed on was
that this turned out to be ariot.
A grounded, cosmic, hystericalend to a wonderful festival.
And no one was spared.
(01:27):
Let's head back to GallowaySprings Farm near Bridgetown WA.
One more time.
Alright, everyone.
This is uh where you shuffleout quicker than you've had to,
unfortunately, if you're notgonna be in this session.
Uh, but if you are, welcome.
This is uh gonna be a uniqueone to bring us home, although
we're gonna have open mic afterthis too, but in terms of our
(01:49):
formal presentations.
Uh the nutrient densityconundrum.
I'm gonna introduce our guests.
I mean, I know I probably don'thave to, but but I want it for
those, I don't want to assumethat everybody knows who you're
facing.
So uh I'll give a briefintroduction to both our guests
and then we can uh delve intothe unique nature of what this
session's gonna be.
So Dan Kittridge has been anorganic farmer for more than 30
(02:12):
years and is the founder andexecutive director of the
Bio-Nutrient Food Association,BFA, a non-profit whose mission
is to increase quality in thefood supply.
Known as one of the leadingexponents of nutrient density,
all the way from Massachusetts,the USA, please welcome Dan
Kittridge.
Now, the bloke next to me,Matthew Evans, is chef turned
(02:39):
farmer, writer, broadcaster, andfood activist with Sadie
Crestman.
Is Sadie here?
Everyone probably knows Sadietoo, anyway.
She's working in the bar.
Matthew (02:50):
You've sent her to the drink.
I needed someone, uh, yeah, thethe yes, yeah.
She's she's she is yeah.
She gave me one glass of wineand wouldn't give me another
one, so so she's banished to thebar.
AJ (03:03):
So with Sadie, Matthew transformed an apple orchard
into Fat Pig Farm in Tasmania'sHewing Valley and inspired by
the UK's Groundswell Festival,co-founded this festival,
launched at Fat Pig in 2024, andbrought here now.
And heads up, we're heading toVictoria in 2026.
Yeah.
(03:24):
But for now, please welcomeMatthew Evans.
Over to you, Matthew.
Matthew (03:30):
Thank you.
So just uh uh uh first up, um,hands up if you were here
yesterday and got to hear Dan.
Anyone, oh well, do it theother way around.
That's too hard.
Do it the other way around.
Anyone who wasn't hereyesterday to hear Dan.
Okay, enough.
Okay.
Maybe the best thing is to ifDan does like the the potted,
can you do the potted version ofnutrient density, what it is,
(03:51):
what you're doing?
Can you do that for like tenminutes?
So we otherwise we don't frameit properly.
Potted?
Oh, brief.
Dan (03:57):
Brief.
Um do it much more briefly thanten minutes.
I see, has anybody ever had atomato uh picked ripe out of the
garden?
Has anybody ever had a tomatouh picked off the shelf in the
middle of the winter?
Do you know the difference inyour tongue?
That's what nutrient densityis.
(04:19):
Um we are wired throughevolution to discern what is
good for us and for our thenchildren and grandchildren if we
think about it properly, andwhat is not.
Uh we have very sophisticatedinbuilt nutrient monitoring
systems called tongues and andnoses.
And uh there's a massivevariation of nutrients in food.
(04:41):
Uh even though the governmentmay tell us that all apples are
uniform or all carrots areuniform or all beef is uniform,
um, that is categorically notthe case.
And um we're wired with theability to discern what's good
for us and what's not.
We call it flavor and aroma.
Um that variation is massive.
I run an organization, an NGO,I'm not sure what you guys call
them here, charities NGOs.
(05:02):
NGOs, we are.
Yeah, um, we call themnonprofits in the U.S.
Um educational organization.
I uh coined the term nutrientdensity almost 17 years ago to
um initiate this conversationaround this nutrient variation
in food, which I thought was areally important thing once I
figured out that it was a thing,and I didn't see the organic
people talking about it, or thebiodynamic people talking about
(05:24):
it, or the permaculturaliststalking about it, or the local
wars talking about it.
Everybody was assuming theywere better, but kind of
assuming everything was uniform.
Uh, but there wasn't reallyactually any proper thought
going into this conversation.
So, yeah, we've been doing abunch of research, um,
characterizing that the scale ofthat variation.
Um, I think I talked about itin some depth yesterday.
Starting in 2017 uh through2021, we took 10,000 samples of
(05:49):
crop from two continents from 25different types of crop uh from
hundreds of farms, grocerystores, farmers' markets, and
and looked at just a fewnutrients, and we found that the
variation, depending on whichnutrient we're looking at, was
uh 5x, 10x, 20x, 40x.
Matthew (06:07):
He means times when he says X?
X.
Dan (06:09):
So five times.
If you were to I didn't knowthat when I first heard that,
just in case.
Sorry, that's a science thing.
Um or uh or a I guess maybe itwas an economics thing.
Yeah, if you were to look atthe carrot with the highest
level of sulfur, it had fourtimes as much sulfur as the one
with the lowest level.
If you look at the carrot thathad the highest level of
antioxidants, it had 40 times asmany as the one with the lowest
(06:31):
level.
So um, there's a whole bunch ofdifferent nutrients in food.
Um we're taught to think aboutcopper and zinc and vitamin C
and vitamin D, and uh those areall sort of Western rational
constructs about individualnutrients, but actually what
we're evolved to eat is food.
Um, and we try to take apartfood into its component parts.
There's hundreds of thousandsor millions or even tens of
millions of different individualnutrients in food.
(06:54):
So this whole way of trying toidentify food through numbers of
individual nutrients is a bitof a false framing, but it's the
way the culture works now, andso we're playing along with it.
But the basic point is thatvariation in food is massive.
Um it connects to our noses andour tongues, it connects to our
(07:14):
health, it connects to thefunction of our you know
systems, whether they'rephysiological, psychological,
emotional, um, connects to thehealth of our children, connects
to uh the health of the soil,um, the function of the
ecosystem, and so I think thatthat roughly cover the question.
Matthew (07:33):
Yeah, that's great.
So the way and the work Dan'sdone is trying to look at, you
know, um, is there a differencein nutrient density?
What what what you know can youmeasure it and how how you
might you know what thosenutrients are, I guess, and and
and what uh how we can influencethat through farming systems.
So would that a sort of a briefsummary of what you've been
doing?
And and uh you know, is there ahandheld device for those of
(07:54):
you that weren't here yesterdaythat that um they a prototype
that they developed that you canpoint at one carrot versus
another carrot and show umhigher nutrients in one than
another, you you know, that youcould actually in theory put on
your have you know someone puton your phone to be able to tell
in the shop before you buy umone brand of carrots or one
farmer's carrots within another.
That's about it.
Dan (08:14):
Yeah, well um the the the vision is that people who buy
food, um who in many cases wantthe best for themselves and
their families when they buyfood should have the ability to
know of the three steak optionsor milk options or potato
options on the shelf, which oneis better, which one's worse.
(08:34):
And it doesn't seem tocorrelate with organic or local
or regenerative or any of theother marketing frameworks.
Um nutritional caliber is doesnot correlate with those things.
Um how would you know?
How would you be able ifthere's I mean I use the example
of carrots in the US andthere's I say there's bunny love
and there's bolt house farmsand there's calorganic.
(08:55):
Those are just three brands ofcarrots.
Um and if you were to look atthose three and say, I want the
one that's gonna taste the best,that's gonna have the highest
level of nutrients that mychildren are most likely to eat,
it's a bit of a crapshoot.
There's no way necessarily tobe able to discern that in real
time.
But there's a science calledspectroscopy, which is that
thing which is what we use toknow what stars are made up of
(09:15):
hundreds of millions of lightyears away, um, which basically
says everything in chemistry isa vibration in physics.
Um and effectively you canflash a light at something, and
by taking a picture of the lightbouncing off of it, you can see
what it's made up of.
And so the technology seems tobe there, like it is actually
this has already been done.
(09:36):
Smartphone companies have putin the camera, in the phone, a
mini spectrometer.
So the you know, the visionbefore this decade is out is
that many, many, many, manypeople have in their smartphone
a mini spectrometer with thecalibration set so that you pull
it out of your pocket, youflush it at the bag of carrots,
(09:56):
20 out of 100, 40 out of 100, 80out of 100.
So we can use the economicincentive, money being a
powerful vector in today's dayand age, to incentivize the
supply chain to focus on qualityas opposed to volume.
Right now, the wholeagricultural system is
effectively focused on volume,aesthetic and volume, um, and is
(10:18):
driven to apply lots ofchemistry, uh, whether it's uh
fertilizers or insecticides,fungicides, etc.
And we all know about thenegative implications of that.
So um it sure looks like, aswell, from our research, that
the thing that causes the levelsof nutrients to increase in
(10:39):
food is the function of themicrobiome.
So the greater the diversity,the greater the population of
the bottom of the food chain,the people who evolved us and
the people who evolved theplants, the microbes, the more
well they're doing, the morenutrients there are in the food.
The more chemistry you apply,generally, the less well the
microbes are doing.
So there's a direct negativeincentive to apply chemistry if
(11:01):
you're focusing on nutrition.
So we use the economicincentive to transform the
supply chain.
Matthew (11:06):
So I just want to unpack that a bit, because I was
I gave a talk uh a little whileago we talked about some of
these similar things in terms ofthe human capacity to tell
what's in food.
But if you look at what plagueshumanity, uh it's not um a lack
of terpenes, is it?
It's or polyphenols, likeantioxidants.
Isn't it like vitamin Adeficiency, iron deficiency,
(11:26):
protein deficiency are the bigproblems as uh you know in terms
of nutrition from that we thathumans are getting generally?
And uh and and your stuff isobviously looking at on a much
smaller scale, but if you've gotsay 150,000 chemicals in uh uh
known chemicals in in broccoli,um like how many of them do we
(11:48):
actually know are actuallyhaving an impact on human
health?
Dan (11:52):
What is human health?
What is flourishment?
You know, I mean in the US wehave this thing called an RDA,
the recommended daily allowance.
You know, you have an RDA forvitamin C, you have an RDA for
vitamin D, you have an RDA foriron and zinc, and the way they
determine the RDA is um how muchdo you need to not be dead?
Um so you can call it the MDA,the minimum daily allowance.
(12:17):
Um but doctors prescribe, callit what they prescribe, you
know, your choice of terms.
Um once you're diagnosed withan ailment, just because you're
not diagnosable with an ailment,does that mean you're healthy?
Um I would say there's acontinuum of vitality in humans,
we can call that one to ahundred.
One of our elders in this sortof community, my who I consider
(12:40):
being an elder, a guy named Dr.
Carrie Reims, said, I think,you know, you have to be below
30% in your vitality level tohave a disease be diagnosable.
So what do you need to functionoptimally and what do you need
to not be dead are two very farapart things.
What is the potential ofhumanity?
(13:01):
If we look at indigenouscultures and their apparent
profound capacity to perceiveand communicate, you know, my
understanding is part of that isbecause of the complex
biochemistry that they'reingesting.
Um so um I can't that there's abook, I think it's called Left
in the Dark, um, about the leftbrain and the right brain and
(13:23):
and you know our evolutionaryhistory.
And when we were earlierprimates and we were having lots
of fruit that had lots of colorand lots of intense flavor, our
left brains and our rightbrains were actually working
more well together.
We weren't they weren'tseparate.
Um and and our ability toperceive more subtle realities
was was normative.
(13:45):
So um, yeah, my understandingis that those secondary
metabolites, those things wecall flavor and aroma, um call
them polyphenols, call themterpenoids, call them alkaloids,
uh that's what uh we call themin science, you know, at high
levels are foundational in ourhigher level function.
So uh I think I said thisyesterday.
(14:06):
Um I personally have a bit ofan agenda um which is raising
consciousness.
Um I think that you know thepotential of humanity is
profound and the current levelof function is far from that.
And so um I see you knowimproving quality of the food
supply, I call it a spiritualcovert op.
Um through improving the natureof who we are, by improving the
(14:32):
nature of what we build ourbodies out of, our higher
potentials are then able tobecome more and more manifest.
So I'm not particularly I Idon't particularly care about
zinc and iron and vitamin C andvitamin D.
I think those are sort ofWestern rational constructs that
are coming from a reductionistparadigm and perspective.
What I'm concerned about isthat overall coherence of the
(14:56):
thing.
Um I was having a beautifulconversation with a woman from
Uruguay, I think, earlier today,uh, about prana and and
vibration and harmonics.
And um I what's that?
Matthew (15:10):
That vibrations and harmonics as an example.
Yeah.
That's my white cover.
AJ (15:17):
No, please, then uh one please.
Dan (15:29):
No, I'm good, I'm good.
Matthew (15:30):
I'm not gonna take your time.
No rush.
Yeah, what we want is bigpicture thingy at the end of the
day.
This is supposed to be a funsession, so that's great.
That's thank you for that.
Um not done.
I was I know, but what we wantis questions.
You hesitated, so I just wantthe I was being polite and
waiting for people to stoplaughing.
Just just I'm in the middle ofa stream of thought.
I know, but you keep thatstream thought.
I got it.
But we want your questions, sowe're gonna need you to actually
(15:51):
participate, maybe not likethat, okay, in a minute.
So just while he's talking,he's going after that's good
further than he would normallygo in these sort of talks.
Dan (15:59):
Okay.
Um I like to go as far as Ipeople will let me go, so this
is great fun.
I'm already heading off to thestratosphere.
Audience (16:06):
Um spiritual covert off.
I did.
Dan (16:09):
I I saw a couple nods.
I saw a couple nods.
I think we got some covert,covert spiritual people here.
Um I it's uh it's unfortunatethat um we all have this deeper
reality which guides us, most ofus actually, that we don't feel
comfortable talking about, thatwe don't even actually
necessarily even have languagefor.
(16:30):
Um so I would say that's that'spart of the opportunity here is
is is to feel is to begin tonorm normalize that and to own
that and to feel comfortable andconfident in that.
Um but we can get back to that.
I do want to finish my topicabout the coherence.
Um I think you know vibrationalcoherence, you know, is
(16:51):
actually what I want.
When I started this vision ofbuilding a meter and building a
tool, what I wanted was acoherence meter.
I wanted a meter that couldtest the vibrational coherence
of the food.
Because I don't think itactually is about the nutrients.
I think it's about theharmonics and the vibration, the
octaves of resonance.
You know, what is the nature ofall the compounds, right?
(17:13):
This whole concept of compoundsand things, right?
Like water is considered to bea compound and protein is
considered to be a compound.
If you actually pull them allapart, there's a there's a
lipid, there's a protein,there's a whatever, DNA is a big
one.
98% of the compounds in yourbody are water.
People know about the magicthat is water?
This harmonic vibrationalresonant liquid crystal, like
(17:35):
propagating frequency, likeprojecting frequency, receiving
frequency, right?
We're actually functionallyantenna systems.
That's really what's going onhere.
Is this it's uh is life isengaging through vibration.
That's how that's how lifeseems to communicate.
The shape of a leaf looks likean antenna.
Insects on their heads haveantenna.
That's how they perceive whatplants are fit to eat and which
(17:55):
plants are not, is by theirvibe.
Right?
This is actually the way naturecommunicates, it's through
vibration.
That's how we're able tocommunicate with the trees and
the plants and the animals andthe nature spirits, is through
harmonics, is through vibration.
We have this Western rationalphysical plane paradigm where
taught is reality, and even thephysicists tell us it's only
(18:16):
90%, it's 5% of reality.
The physical plane is 5% ofreality, according to the
physicists.
95% is somewhere else.
It's not on the physical plane,it's in the these other octaves
of reality.
That is the fact, according tothe scientists, and we're all
talking about the physicalplane, as though that's
everything.
(18:36):
Right?
I mean, that's just acompletely stupid thing to do if
you think about it, but wecontinue to do it without
thinking about it because that'swhat we're trained to do.
Um I wanted a coherence meter.
Um and so's that going step bystep.
I got my end game, I know whereI'm going.
I'm playing along like, youknow, I'm in, I'm we're gonna do
(18:58):
a scientific experiment, we'regonna get everything randomized,
replicated trials, we're gonnado triplicate samples, we're
gonna look at the microbiome,we're gonna look at the
biochemistry, we're gonna dostatistical significance and
publish in nature, right?
So hide behind the Westernrational empirical framework
because that's where the that'swhere the zeitgeist is, that's
where the industry is, that'swhere you can uh achieve formal
(19:18):
legitimacy, but never stoptalking about the fact that
there's a hell of a lot moregoing on out there, and that's
where we're headed.
So um what I was saying aboutwater and harmonics and
vibration, um, you know, thevast majority of our of our body
is is that is water.
We are vibrating the liquidcrystal, and that's the vast
(19:40):
majority of what plants are,right?
It's the vast majority of whatmilk is, it's the vast majority
of what meat is.
I don't think it's so muchabout the biochemistry of the
plant.
I think it's much more aboutthe harmonic of the plant.
But that's going to be a moreexpensive, more time-consuming,
you know, down-the-trackprocess.
So um there's a big, a bigagenda here over time.
(20:02):
Really, of course, as I saidbefore, we shouldn't need
external instruments.
It's not about externalinstruments, it's about tuning
the instrument that God gaveyou.
Right?
This instrument of perception,which is the thing you carry
around with you, you beingdifferent from the instrument of
perception is the thing we needto be remembering.
Right?
(20:22):
It's not about the telescopeand the microscope and the
spectrometer, it's about thismultidimensional, multi-octave,
profound instrument that wecarry around with us, and
remembering that that is wheretruth resides.
And each of us has our owntruth.
What's right for me is notright for you.
How do I know?
Because it makes me feelbetter.
(20:44):
If something makes me feel lessgood, that's my
multidimensional instrument ofperception communicating with
me.
We're not taught to attune,attend to that perception which
is immediately available to allof us.
Right?
And we can't actually makeright decisions until we
(21:07):
actually begin to put ourattention where it belongs,
which is within.
If that thing we're carryingaround with us is vibrating out
of tune, it's having a hardertime giving us good information.
We're having a harder timetuning into it to perceive that
deeper guidance.
So strategically, we have tofigure out how to get those
(21:28):
instruments of perception, whichare the bodies we carry around
with us, to vibrate moreharmoniously, to guide us in our
deeper selves more well.
Um that's the agenda withnutrient density that I'm trying
to accomplish.
Who thought it would go there?
Well, yeah.
AJ (21:47):
I'd love to I want to come I also want to come back to you
on this.
But to pick up because you youended up where I was already
going, but I want to take thesegue from it then, Dan, that so
the material reality's well,physical plane, five percent of
reality, yet vital.
So yeah, it's interesting tohear you talk like that, but to
(22:10):
think that nutrition in our foodmatters.
It's like it's critical.
We even being a you know, aslither of reality, it's a lot
of people.
Dan (22:19):
Well, the food is not, I mean, so the harmonic of the
water in the cucumber, is itvibrating harmoniously, you
know, on five octaves?
Or did it get irradiatedbecause of food safety and now
it's like dissonant?
And it may have a properbalance of quote unquote proper
balance of polyphenols and andcopper and zinc, but the actual
(22:41):
harmonica of it's not there.
What happens when you microwavethings?
I mean, not even talking aboutwhat kind of state of mind are
you in when you eat?
Are you angry?
Did you just have a fight?
How was the cooking done?
Did you cook with love?
Were you joyfully and lovinglywith passion cooking for your
family, or were you pissed andresentful?
(23:02):
And I damn it, I had to cookagain, and I'm just gonna throw
it together.
Or was it a you know aprocessed product that in
factory you know isolated andput into a bar and is a designed
to maximize profit?
Right?
I mean these are deeperquestions about what the hell
(23:23):
where is going on here.
AJ (23:25):
Um I feel like it's a good opportunity for me to ask you a
question.
Matthew (23:29):
Oh, I'm just I've been left a long way behind in this
conversation.
AJ (23:39):
So, as the boy who was brought up by a scientist and
has talked about uh well writtenso much and talked about that,
but but I sense has come to whatyou used to call woo-woo a
little over the years.
How are you hearing that?
Matthew (23:58):
Yeah, that's a great question.
You were picking up on a lotthere.
Um anyone else clenching in theaudience as he was talking?
I don't know.
Uh yeah, look, I said tosomeone earlier, like uh, uh,
because they were saying, Oh,this is really I didn't expect
it to be like this.
Yeah, so all like kumbayarcircles and woo-woo, you know,
and here we are.
Um Heidi's session, yes, so wedid it, you know, not quite, but
(24:23):
we had a singing circle andstuff.
But like that's actually themagic.
Look, I've just read a bookcalled The Light Eaters, I don't
know if anyone's seen that, butthis is a really great book
about how plant intelligence,right?
And there's these plants inSouth America that that can
mimic other plants.
So they essentially grow, it'sa vine, it grows next to another
plant, and it can mimic theexact colour and leaf, well, not
always exact, it's hard withvariegated leaves and other
(24:44):
things, but they can they canpretty much mimic the plant next
to them, right?
How does it do that if it can'tsee?
You know, so so this bookthat's about it's all science, a
science writer out of the US,it's a pretty hard book to buy
in Australia at the moment, butum it's all stuff that that
science is having a real problemexplaining, you know, and this
idea we know we can measurethese, you know, these uh um you
(25:06):
know electromagnetic fields outyou know, distance from humans,
we know that that we don'tfinish here in in microbiome or
in our energy fields and allthat kind of stuff.
And I think a lot of us havequestions about shit that we
can't explain that science hastrouble explaining.
So I probably, you know, thisis why we want to have a session
like this, because I'dprobably, you know, I don't
Dan's the idea with this sessionwas for me to go, Dan, you talk
(25:29):
about some weird shit.
But I know you can talk aboutsome weirder shit.
And you know how I have thisthing, you know, if you've got a
recipe and you want to test it,don't do it at a dinner party,
you know.
So he and I probably shouldhave done this over a beer.
AJ (25:48):
You do get the rough draft.
Matthew (25:49):
But you're getting a rough draft, yeah, exactly.
So yeah, no, that's my view.
Is it's is like, and I knowyou're you're probably much more
attuned to this sort of stuffthan me, but when I look at the
scientific field and I look atthe stuff we can't explain, and
I look at the miracle of plants,which is what I'm delving into
at the moment, there is so muchwe cannot explain through
through the normal scientific ummethod, you know, because they
seem to be able to hear, theyseem to be able to talk, they
(26:10):
seem to be able to see, um, andyet they don't have a central
nervous system, eyes, ears, andbrains.
I d completely disagree withyou.
Dan (26:19):
Good.
The the science So thescientific method is a method,
and it you know even in formalWestern rational peer-reviewed
published papers, the science isthere to explain these things
you're talking about.
It may not be in the mainstreamuniversity literature, but go
to Russia to check out thispiece, go to you know, Brazil to
(26:42):
check out that piece.
This is whenever I teach mycourses, I spend the last hour
and a half on the literaturewhich explains the rest of it
all.
We actually do have in theWestern rational, you know,
peer-reviewed, publishedliterature formal logical uh
explanations for all thesedynamics.
(27:04):
So um that's what's exciting tome, is it actually can be
explained.
There is a logical pathway.
Give me any question and I canyou know direct you to uh uh
what it seems to me, what Ithink is actually a a very
viable you know causalrelationship for these dynamics.
AJ (27:18):
It's interesting to hear you say that today.
Dan (27:20):
I love science.
Science is beautiful.
Science is a method of of offinding truth, right?
It's it's the you know you youexperiment, you try this and see
what happens, you it try thatand see what happens, develop a
theory, you know, test it testit over and over again.
That the scientific method is ais I call it you know the
opportunity to find a linguafranca.
(27:41):
Instead of having us each haveour own perspectives, which are
all great, but they're alldifferent perspectives, the
scientific method is a way thatwe can identify what seems to be
truth.
I'm I'm a big fan of it.
I just think you know what it'slike science gets a bad name
because it's oftentimes used forpropagandistic purposes.
That makes it not science.
That makes it propaganda.
(28:03):
Right?
There's there's spiritualitywhich is profound, and then
there's religion.
Religion oftentimes pervertsspirituality, right?
Um God, I love, call what youwant to call it, I think it's a
real thing and it's reallyprofound.
A lot of things that are donein the name of God are perverse
and and dark, right?
That doesn't make them actuallyworking in the name in the
(28:24):
truth of what God is, that's aperversion of it.
So science as well is used inthat way, but that's has to do
with ego, that has to do withthe foibles of humanity, not
with the principle of the thing.
AJ (28:34):
It's really interesting to see hear you say that, Dan.
And you know, I was alreadythinking about Einstein in this
context as someone who didnominally link him up in his own
mind and how he went about eventapping creativity as he used
to talk about.
But thinking about culturalstories, and that his work was
what, a hundred years ago orsomething, yet we're still such
(28:56):
a heavily reductionist culture.
So I I take stock of whatyou're saying about that the
science is there, but it's notpervading the cultural story,
because even his science hasn'treally pervaded the cultural
story.
Dan (29:10):
To say that we are all operating from a similar culture
is is completely ridiculous.
Right?
I mean, you go into any townand any country on any
continent, and you go on a roadand you talk to the people in
each house on that road, and youtalk to each person in each
house, and they all havecompletely different
(29:31):
perspectives.
Right?
There is no uniform, dominantcultural paradigm.
Like we all each secretly haveour own perspectives.
What I find when I talk topeople, and I talk to a lot of
people in a lot of places, ismost of them are coming from a
pretty deep place.
And so we can like project ontoculture, like, oh, this bad, oh
that bad, oh, so many badthings.
But if you actually go and talkto people and you get involved
(29:53):
in a deep conversation, mostpeople, in my experience, are
operating from a pretty profoundplace.
And it's really exciting.
you know, i from a professionalposition to be now in a place
where I'm talking to people atmajor multinational
corporations, at major globalphilanthropies, at major
researchers in Washington, D.C.
(30:14):
and government in like quoteunquote places of power where
all the dark forces are and youfind the people in those places
are actually really good, deep,well-meaning people who are
operating from a very high levelin a lot of cases.
So I don't think it does us anygood to continue to say these
(30:35):
things negative about ourselves.
And that's not even talkingabout the indig indigenous
peoples right who are also here,who are completely being
ignored and othered or you knowdisappeared by that statement.
I I really don't think it helpsto have these kind of frames
and to repeat them.
Sorry, that's just a pushbackthere.
Audience (30:55):
I need to be sorry.
Dan (30:56):
Well not sorry, I don't want to be yeah whatever.
There I've said it.
Do you want to go questions?
Matthew (31:04):
I haven't seen your hands go up.
AJ (31:05):
You shut them both down so there we go to you guys.
Who's next?
Yeah.
Give me another one.
Audience (31:14):
Sorry Matt I'm gonna uh keep going with Dan on this
one.
So uh it's a great topic and Iabsolutely love it.
Um what are you doing?
This is just for me to try andunderstand on a personal level
on a day-to-day level what areyou doing to keep that vibration
um and um harmony in your lifeand in your body um not as much
as I should or could um um whatam I doing?
Dan (31:35):
I like vibrating um can we dive deeper into that something
different in America I don'tthink I've ever seen a vibrator
(31:56):
in my entire life um so um yeahI I think I touched on it
yesterday but I spent some timeearly in my life up in the
Himalayas and I practiced thescience of the East which is
thousands of years older thanthe science of the West their
books are thousands of yearsolder than our books.
(32:17):
It's profound it'smultidimensional they have a
regular practice of havingpeople achieve enlightenment as
like a sign of success in theirculture.
It's not a PhD it'senlightenment is success in that
culture.
Like for starters let's getsome humility about hey how many
of us are there Westerners andhow many non-Westerners are
(32:39):
there?
Just just just for contextright all the all the Westerners
is like one billion if you takeAustralia you take Europe you
take North America you're you'renot even quite maybe right 1.4
in India 1.4 in China anybodyever been?
Like they operate from adifferent set of assumptions
(33:00):
just so we're clear the thethings we've been trained we're
a minority those of us who areoperating from this Western
rational quote unquote paradigmis not normal.
This is not normal in humanityA in time or B in sheer number
of humans um so there's ascience of the East that is
thousands of years old whichteaches you how to cause and
effect do this have that resultdo this have that result um I
(33:24):
found it in the Vedas um thetantras the techniques are there
I can direct anybody to aseries of books which you can
buy for $10 $15 which willtransform your frickin' life
it's right there in English inprint if you want.
And so you do that for a coupleminutes a day or 10 minutes a
day or 20 minutes a day.
I did that for two winters inthe Himalayas in 99 and 2000.
(33:48):
And I'm still running on theresidual of that like I wake up
in the morning and I whateverchakra is flowing I just lay
there in bed and vibrate and Ijust let that higher octave of
vibration sort of resonatethrough my body.
So that's what I mean byvibrating.
I like it it's fun it really isdeeper pleasure than anything
(34:10):
else.
It's profound pleasure just tolay there in that octave to be
able to tune your perspective tothat octave and use this
instrument of perspectiveperception to engage like it's
it's amazing what's out there.
It's amazing what we have neverbeen exposed to that to like it
(34:30):
there's so much it's amazing tothink that the human body is
such a multidimensionalinstrument of perception and
communication you know TysonYoung Caporte is probably not a
fella you've heard of I have youhave okay Sandtalk?
AJ (34:49):
Yeah Sandtalk exactly yeah so in Sand Talk in fact there
was a line where he said there'ssomething he thinks about every
day and as I'm reading the bookand we're about to do a podcast
I'm thinking every day?
Far out so I'm gonna ask him Iask him no one's asked him about
that in a podcast before hehe's in tears about it.
(35:09):
This moment that moved him somuch and it was viewing some
footage of Andaman Islanderssome years prior.
You've heard this right I knowwhat the Andaman Islander is
yeah wow exactly I mean how theyhow they escaped the tsunami
for example they knew it wascoming and the machinery didn't
yeah that the stories can becompounded.
But Tyson remembers thisfootage of first contact no less
(35:31):
he describes it sort of likethis that there's this couple
man and woman equally as rippedas each other and with a
fierceness in their eyes youknow he says as if to say what
to the camera and he never wasable to track it down again but
he never forgot it and it was ait was a touchstone for him and
then for our conversation fromthat point on around well he
(35:54):
used the terminology superhumanbut only relative to as he would
say the fragmentation of whatwe've become in this moment.
Yeah but that that was a norm.
Dan (36:03):
And I think about that when I hear you say that's the
inherent potential of us all andthe effect of colonization is
to separate us from that.
That's the essence of everychild that's born is the and
every child that's born is thatpotential is there in them and
what we do is profound childabuse in perverting them to fit
(36:25):
into this atrocious dynamic.
So to me thinking strategicallyforward the real question is
how can we create a dynamicwhere the children that are born
are able to have their truenature become manifest.
Right?
And when where I come from wehave this um what do they call
it the the law of the sevengenerations every decision
(36:49):
that's taken has to pass musterwith the question will this
cause my descendants sevengenerations forward to be better
if I do this instead of thatevery single decision has to
pass that test.
I think I mean I'm 48 now andlike not a kid anymore.
(37:10):
I'm not getting that old yetbut I'm 50 is like close.
I'm getting to start thinkingabout this.
I'm getting to start thinkingabout this and like
strategically culturally how dowe need to be orienting
ourselves and and for me theseare the critical questions how
do we create a dynamic so thatmaybe in two generations our
(37:31):
children are not perverted soprofoundly by these dynamics of
what we call culture.
Right?
I mean because the essence ofthat brilliance of that
superhumanness is is is ourbirthright is the essence of
what each of us is and that'sjust I mean these are the things
we I I think need to be likeinstead of fighting this talking
(37:53):
bad about this like there's amillion things you can easily
get worked up about like oh thisis bad blah blah blah blah blah
how about every singleconversation is how can we
optimize?
What's the best path forward?
What can we do better?
How can I help?
Right?
I mean it's what questions youask where you put your attention
and your and your intention isthe reality you create.
(38:16):
Right we can we are brilliantprofound creators it's just the
question is what are wecreating?
Audience (38:25):
Where's Tegan?
Got someone beauty um NikolaiTesla the the father of what we
call the modern world inventedmulti-power systems but he was
all about vibrations all hiswork and a lot of that's been
suppressed my sense is thethings that are happening around
the world we're in a realtipping point in history what's
(38:46):
happening in America with theMaha movement and you know the
the the the food system we'vegot's been driven by marketing
and the media and what you'retalking about is getting back to
first principles.
How do we get that message outto the the wider population of
eaters?
We've got this thing aboutconsumerism and consumers but I
like to think we need to talkabout eaters not consumers.
Dan (39:09):
Um I'm doing what I can do um I think each of us there's
eight billion of us plus orminus each you know if we each
do what each of us can do that'sall we can do.
It's not about you know as soonas you start thinking about
other people you're missing thepoint because you can't control
other people the only thing youcan control is you and the only
(39:30):
thing you can do is the best youcan do.
So get your head out of thefuture get your head out of
other people and get into themoment and say you know what can
I do now and then say it againwhat can I do now and keep doing
that all day long every daygoing forward.
There's nothing else what can Ido now?
What is my unique calling whatam I called to do from within
(39:52):
you know we each have a piece ofthe puzzle and the more of us
that you know step into ourpieces more deeply the more
rapidly you know things wellthat is what will decide what
happens is how each of usengages our own lives I would
say but we're gettingphilosophical here not talking
about nutrient per se we had totranscend the conundrum that we
(40:16):
were put up with huh?
I have said this is the secondhalf of my career.
No one's I haven't said thatpublicly yet I haven't explained
what the second half of mycareer is yeah um thanks very
much um apologies I in terms ofsentience for trees and stuff I
think Matthew was touching onthat example but there's
actually a research study donein UWA Gagliano that proved that
(40:38):
ran the Pavlov's dog experimentwith plants and proved there is
a consciousness.
So we're the you know we justneed to accept that and get
start looking deeper into thatbut my interest is in the is the
organization of intelligencewithin beings such as plants
that that have this armory ofchemical responses and and needs
(41:00):
that so obviously it's adepository of intelligence
somewhere we we have a brain wethink the intelligence held on
the on the electric synapse butI think it's actually held in
the organisation of water and II I think one of your lecturers
at one of your nutritionalconferences was starting to deep
dive into the organise theability of water to organize and
(41:22):
to code and it do you have youkind of looked further into that
that kind of space in terms ofscience because that's pin that
really would start to pinprickwhere uh the power of intention
placed with water and obviouslyDr.
Emoto I think it was a Japaneseguy kind of proved the ability
(41:42):
to put personality so justprobably some enlightenment is
is there any more advance inthat space and your perception
of the the water as the truevessel of intelligence?
I don't think water is the truevessel of intelligence.
I think water is the is thephysical form vibrating liquid
crystal through whichcommunication comes and goes I
(42:06):
think it's the matrix that youknow holds the vibration that we
propagate into the environmentand that receives vibrations
from the environment that it's avibrating liquid crystal that's
what it that how it serves andwe're just a basically a doped
bag of water like as in we're abig bag of water with a few
other things in it.
And what we're basically doingis functioning as antenna to
(42:29):
perceive frequencies coming atus and then through the
vibrations we're holding we'repropagating frequency into the
environment.
Where intelligence is held orwhat is intelligence or is it
intelligence or is itconsciousness I think there's a
really good book called TheField.
Anyone know the field?
Yeah Lynn McTaggart thank youvery much yeah Lyndon McTaggart
(42:52):
uh was an investigativejournalist who did this research
uh talking to two uhneuroscientists asking them
where memories are stored and umanybody know where memories are
stored?
Exactly in the field uh yeah itit seems that our you know that
our our neurons these braincells right anybody know about
(43:14):
the neurons there's a bunch ofthem in their in your brain
right there's a bunch of them inyour heart there's a bunch of
them in your gut so if an organfull of neurons is a brain then
functionally we all have threebrains and that neuron is
basically this long filamentoushair which is functioning like
an antenna which is which ispicking up vibrations from the
field around it.
(43:34):
Women actually have a fourthorgan full of neurons called a
uterus so I like to say um youguys have four brains we have
three so never give us a hardtime don't say that's what they
gotta go easy don't give us ahard time don't give us a hard
time like there we go I'm withyou again no it's it's we are
(43:59):
who we are you are who you arelike don't expect us to be who
you are like we can't see whatyou can see.
Don't anyway um in Sanskritthey call it the Akashic record
the field right I mean when whenSteiner was asked how did you
figure out all these things he'slike duh it was in the Akashic
record.
What's the Akashic record?
That's a Sanskrit term.
I like to say if you were tohave a a pool of totally still
(44:23):
water and chuck a rock into itand somebody was to come around
a corner ten seconds later andlook at that pool they could see
what happened right based onthe ripples.
Well every thought you havesends a ripple into the
space-time continuum everyaction has a ripple imagine that
(44:45):
imagine that everything has aneffect right that's not too far
out of the realm of science onsome level everything you do
every heart every feeling youhave that anger that love every
idea every action effectivelyhas a ripple and what the
antenna of our brains do is readthe ripples so that's my
(45:10):
understanding um is that the soyeah I'm not sure that covers it
but still with us?
Audience (45:15):
Oh yeah I was thinking about you know what's the
dinner man that was a factionthat was trying to be a faction
picked up on the vibration soyou get over to you who we got
(45:42):
yep I'm interested more in thespectrometer given that we're
not all farmers and we need atrade so that there's the money
the capitalism how do you have aplan on like how to portray
quality of food like obviouslythis is an example and like
sharing is a big example butthen like on that you know that
(46:05):
broad scale corporate level Isuppose it which is the world
we're living in like how can thespectrometer like this is the
instrument you're going with howcan that help you or help us to
understand that this food isbetter like how can you explain
that to I don't know the the thelay person or the average
person in this world?
Dan (46:25):
I think I want to take that um and go a little bit
different direction because Iit's a big long conversation and
covered it pretty wellyesterday.
There's something I do want todo here today and I don't know
how much time we have left soI'm gonna just do it right now.
I almost never ever ever get onstage with an intention or a
plan to do anything.
That's not the case.
Today I got on stage with anintention and a plan to do
(46:47):
something and I haven't yet doneit.
Yeah.
This was just the curtain riserwhere we're going where we're
going Matt as I said a bit agoum the future doesn't exist uh
(47:12):
we can all have our sort ofgeneral like intentions or
trajectories we're aiming towardthe most important thing is now
the moment now and what can wedo now?
So in the trajectory of thevision of the spectrometer there
is something we can do now wecan have a thing in our hand
which we can use to measure thequality of food which we can
(47:34):
actually tell other people aboutand help them understand and
engage a shift in purchasingpurchasing and you know have
that begin to ripple forwardthrough the supply chain and all
of its other implications.
We are at the BFA at the finalstages of this thing we're
calling the BRICSit uh kit.
People have heard of therefractometer um it's been
(47:55):
around I think 195 years um andI don't think I need to go into
depth about what it is therefractometer measures bricks um
so effectively what we're doingat the BFA is is we're building
this app.
We're taking a refractometerand a garlic press and we built
a little a little coin that youstick in the garlic press to
keep the pulp from comingthrough.
And we built an app and sowe're inviting people to take
(48:16):
their shopping take an extra 10minutes take a chunk out of each
zucchini and carrot and tomatoand cucumber squish it and
upload onto the app the numberalong with the date of purchase
the point of purchase and thebrand and so the thought is if
you get 10 people in any giventown or city to begin doing that
(48:36):
in fairly short order you beginto have a database which says
generally this brand at thisstore is better than that brand
or generally stuff at this storeis better than that store or
generally this farmer at thefarmer's market is better than
that farmer at the farmer'smarket.
This is something we haven'tyet released.
I'm hoping we'll release itnext month but I have the
(48:57):
world's very first kit that Iwant to give to someone who I
think is extremely special.
So I think I did with a ball oflove I don't know how many
(49:26):
people go to how many events andconferences and how many places
but I go to a bunch and I justwant to say what you guys do
with this grounded event havedone now two for two is
completely epic.
Absolutely completely epic mesquirm again every single little
(49:58):
thing is thought about I I'vegot the toilet he was timing he
was timing sunset with dinnerright like every single little
thing this it's the vibe on theland, the people the speakers
the the whole thing it's so it'sso whole and I just want to
(50:22):
really acknowledge that andaffirm that and appreciate that
because it's it is really reallyunique.
AJ (50:35):
Matthew Evans Dan Kittredge Thanks guys thank you all for
being here as we wrap up themain program thanks for having
me too what a week it's been inWA huh what a week to to have
this crown that week is huge.
I want to just dig down alittle bit into the thank yous I
(50:57):
did see Georgie at the back isOllie around too but you
probably if you haven't metOllie and Georgie and Nadia the
team that accompanies Matthewwe'll probably have them up
later at the thing so yeah greatshe's just talking she won't
hear me but yeah we'll we'llmake a big deal of them later
but um but thank you to thewhole team Matthew Sadie
(51:18):
obviously and of course Teganover here thank you very much
and all the volunteers really uhwho's made this happen the
presenters obviously and thesponsors too you know you you
called it out at the top Matthewit just couldn't happen without
and much less at the pricewe're managing to access it at
uh our hosts the Johnson familyhere at Galloway Springs of
(51:38):
course yeah in fact in fact Istarted today and and bless
perhaps some of you were in herewith a massive roar to send out
across the fields to anyone whoplayed a part in making really
to now to everyone who made thishappen the way it did.
So can we sum the biggest roarand applause we can right in
(52:00):
this moment to send that out toeverybody hip hip a rady That's
a wrap for Grounded 2025.
Thank you again to the groundedcrew for generously providing
that recording and of course toyou supporting listeners for
(52:22):
making this episode possible.
Enormous thanks to Julia Holtfor your very generous support
this week sent with no way ofthanking you but this and simply
writing thanks for the podcast.
Special thanks to to two moreof the most generous supporters
of this podcast for over fouryears now Peter Bate and Ed
(52:43):
Surgeon.
So grateful for the three ofyou.
If you'd like to join us bepart of this great community get
some exclusive stuff includinga discount to the next grounded
festival all while helping tokeep the show going, I'd love
you to.
Just head to the website or theshow notes and follow the
prompts.
EarlyBird ticks for Grounded2026 are out now with a 10%
(53:06):
discount for podcast subscriberswith thanks again to the
festival team.
I've sent the code to you onPatreon and Substack for you to
see wherever you subscribe.
This will be Grounded's biggeststaging yet this time at the
legendary Stewart's farm in theOtways of Victoria in April.
You might remember KristyStewart back in episode 132 on a
(53:28):
special spot for her on thatfarm.
I'll be there fresh off ourMurray River course and hope to
see you there too.
The Grounded podcast is alsoclose at hand it'll launch soon
with all their recordings sofar.
And finally you can find a fewmore photos from today's panel
conversation on TheRegenNarration website the music
(53:50):
you're hearing is Regenerationby Amelia Barden.
My name's Anthony James thanksfor listening just request
(54:35):
because we're gonna be on washup duty so we won't get back to
the mic but we really want tojust quickly say something Oh if
you're if you're doing thewashing thank you okay so the
the question that that we put uphere is why don't I lick my
(54:57):
plate so raise of hands who herelicks their plate clean? Al
right out of everyone else whowould be willing to give it a go
to lick their plate for thegreater good?
it's the best part of the dishit has got all the oils and the
(55:25):
flavors and when you lick it offthe plate it doesn't end up in
the washing water.
It keeps it clean and great
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Ruthie's Table 4
For more than 30 years The River Cafe in London, has been the home-from-home of artists, architects, designers, actors, collectors, writers, activists, and politicians. Michael Caine, Glenn Close, JJ Abrams, Steve McQueen, Victoria and David Beckham, and Lily Allen, are just some of the people who love to call The River Cafe home. On River Cafe Table 4, Rogers sits down with her customers—who have become friends—to talk about food memories. Table 4 explores how food impacts every aspect of our lives. “Foods is politics, food is cultural, food is how you express love, food is about your heritage, it defines who you and who you want to be,” says Rogers. Each week, Rogers invites her guest to reminisce about family suppers and first dates, what they cook, how they eat when performing, the restaurants they choose, and what food they seek when they need comfort. And to punctuate each episode of Table 4, guests such as Ralph Fiennes, Emily Blunt, and Alfonso Cuarón, read their favourite recipe from one of the best-selling River Cafe cookbooks. Table 4 itself, is situated near The River Cafe’s open kitchen, close to the bright pink wood-fired oven and next to the glossy yellow pass, where Ruthie oversees the restaurant. You are invited to take a seat at this intimate table and join the conversation. For more information, recipes, and ingredients, go to https://shoptherivercafe.co.uk/ Web: https://rivercafe.co.uk/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/therivercafelondon/ Facebook: https://en-gb.facebook.com/therivercafelondon/ For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com