November 9, 2025 • 58 mins
Continuing our series today from Grounded Festival here in Australia, a conversation with West Australians of the Year, pioneers of Natural Intelligence Farming, and so much more beyond the farm, Dianne and Ian Haggerty.
We talk about what it’s been like being West Aussies of the Year, and farmers. And go from there, once again, into some emotional and hilarious exchanges, on what’s emerging from the year, how different things feel now, and the call to all parties to rally now towards some bigger visions.
Weaved into all that, we also further explore the incredible week that was here in WA, including their three big events: from the launch of a new Alliance at Government House, to a tour on-farm ahead of the Regenerating Food Systems conference (featured on the podcast in recent weeks), through to their first enormous community showcase event.
As it happens, the new Alliance you’ll hear about has its first development workshop today – so more on that soon. There was so much to talk about. Let’s head back to the sun-drenched green of Galloway Springs farm.
Recorded 20 September 2025.
Title image: AJ, Di and Ian on stage (pic: Alan Benson).
See more photos on the episode web page, and for more behind the scenes, become a supporting listener below.
Music:
Rowdy, by The Lonely Ramblers (sourced from Artlist).
Regeneration, by Amelia Barden.
The RegenNarration playlist, music chosen by guests.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ian (00:00):
And the other area was through the governor and the
governor general.
The governor general pulling usaside saying, I am so excited
for this, for this.
We have to do not waste thisopportunity.
It is such a crucial pivotingpoint in human history and
planetary health that we getthis message out there.
(00:20):
The support's there.
AJ (00:24):
G'day, Anthony James here for The RegenNarration, your
ad-free, freely available,listener-supported podcast,
exploring how people areregenerating the systems and
stories we live by.
Continuing our series todayfrom the Grounded Festival here
in Australia, a conversationwith West Australians of the
Year, pioneers of naturalintelligence farming, and so
(00:45):
much more beyond the farm,Dianne and Ian Haggerty.
We talk about what it's likebeing West Aussies of the Year
and farmers, and go from thereonce again into some emotional
and hilarious exchanges onwhat's emerging from the year,
how different things feel now,and the call to all parties to
(01:05):
rally now towards some biggervisions.
Weaved into all that, we alsofurther explore the incredible
week that was here in WA,including their three big
events.
From the launch of a newalliance at Government House to
a tour on farm ahead of theRegenerating Food Systems
Conference, featured on thepodcast in recent weeks, through
(01:26):
to their first enormouscommunity showcase event.
And as it happens, the newalliance you'll hear more about
here has its first developmentworkshop on today.
So more on that soon.
There was so much to talkabout.
So let's head back to thesun-drenched green of Galloway
Springs Farm.
G'day everyone, welcome back.
(01:47):
We're about to start the nextsession with Ian and Di
Haggerty.
So firstly, calling Ian and DiHaggerty.
I hope they're nearby.
Yeah, there's the hat.
The hats.
Welcome, Ian and Di.
Actually, let's get you walkingdown the aisle with the big
announcement of some kind.
West Australians of the year2025.
Yeah.
Grab a seat, Di.
(02:10):
You can be the rose between thethorns.
I just came back to the countrynot long ago, and uh these guys
said they had a reception, awelcome at Government House,
which was just last Monday.
Would I help out with a littlepanel there?
So of course I did.
But wow, start the week atGovernment House in the Royal
Room, which has a bigger thanlife size uh painting of Queen
(02:34):
Elizabeth at a younger age fromhalfway up the wall to the
ceiling, and that's where thatwas sort of above where Die was
presenting at the lectern, andit looked, I remember I called I
called you matriarch of themovement some years ago.
It's progressed.
You are now the Queen.
Queen Die.
(02:56):
Alright, let's get cracking.
I said earlier that I've beenprivy to some of the well one of
the decades of guts and RD andextraordinary outcomes that have
been happening out at thesepeople's farms.
And that yeah, having left thecountry for five minutes to come
back in the West Australians ofthe year.
So here we're going to talk abit about that.
(03:16):
It seemed to be an irresistibleopportunity.
Matthew had the idea, and yeah,I'm really looking forward to
it.
So let's talk a bit about whatit's like to be freshly minted
royalty and farmers and whatpossibilities might be opening
up on the back of that.
So to start, I'm wondering ifyou can just bring us into the
process, like how you find out,when you find out, and what it
(03:39):
feels like.
Di (03:41):
Yeah, I guess early on in the um space they let you know
that you've been nominated, andyou think, oh yeah, okay, well,
that's really lovely, but it'snot going to mean much at the
end of the day because you don'tthink, you know, oh yeah, okay,
well, there'll be lots and lotsof nominations.
Um, but then at that timeyou've actually got to agree to
um a pretty thorough analysis, Iguess, of your background to
(04:03):
make sure that you're legit.
And so we said, oh yeah, no, itall sounded like all good fun,
why not?
And then we became finalistsand we thought, oh yeah, well,
that's good fun.
Yeah, we'll go along with that,that'll be great fun.
And then when we got there onthe evening and they called our
name, I think we just about felloff our chair.
And um it's been reallyinteresting, but what's been
(04:24):
it's been a really rewarding andthe cliche being a privilege,
but the privilege has been inthe people that we've been able
to meet in that time, um,particularly the event in
Canberra, where they brought alot of the alumni of you know,
previous winners and so forth,and just to talk to them because
they're all people that justdon't give up.
(04:45):
They're people that just goagainst the odds and make a go
of stuff.
Um, so whether that be you knowin their own personal
endeavours or athletes or um,you know, just people that have
made significant change indifferent areas and actually sit
down and have your gone withthem and you think, yeah, okay.
And a lot of them have gone onand continued to do stuff and
(05:06):
made to realise that you can'thave any excuses, you've got to
grab the moment when thatwhenever things present itself
to you and do the best youpossibly can because a lot of
other people are trying to dothe same, but if you walk away
for an opportunity, you'rereally, you know, probably
letting yourself down plus otherpeople down at the same time.
AJ (05:26):
Geez, I take stock of that for uh because you don't see
those people uh every day, or oryou might not notice they're
those people every day, but uhbut well, they're everywhere.
Yeah.
Ian (05:38):
To me, it really um snuck up on me a fair bit.
Um because if I probably wouldhave thought about it, um just
thinking about it, I probablywouldn't have done it because I
would have thought, I'm afarmer, you know, you're gonna
have to make speeches, you'regonna have to do things, it's
not my comfort zone.
And I probably wouldn't havedone it, but anyway, so die just
happens to casually mention tome, and this is really early on,
(06:00):
oh, we've been nominated.
Oh yeah, totally forgot aboutit, you know.
And then down the line, and itwas a busy year because we did a
a Canadian speaking tour for anumber of weeks, and um a few
things led into that, and we'reover there and we're coming down
through somewhere in Canada,and Nicole Mars has rung up and
says, I'll swing by into umnorthern US and want to catch up
(06:24):
with you guys, just feelimportant that we catch up.
So we swung by and we actuallyjust spent a few days with
Nicole and her mum Michelle, andthose few days were just
vegging out.
We just hung out together anddid a lot of stuff.
It was really important time towhat's led into all of this
(06:45):
because we just did stuff andjust we actually a good friend
of hers had one of the originalboats that went right up into
the Yellowstone, and we actuallywent up there and just spent a
day floating down theYellowstone and just talking,
but we were actually connectingwith country, and um Nicole
brought a uh lady, a seniorshaman in, and we were talking
(07:06):
about lots of things and a lotof energy stuff there, and she
was saying that you know we weregetting the feeling, she was
home to getting things like bigthings, things are changing, big
things are going to happen.
So we just left it at that.
And um came back home, got backinto home, and we got a phone
call that um we had to go toCalifornia, Pasadena in
California, um, to a big textileexchange.
(07:29):
Things we'd we'd we'd beenlucky enough to win this award.
And I just said straight away,there's no bloody way I'm
hopping on an airplane againafter flying back 17 hours from
Vancouver.
And um, so um Matthew gotdedicated to go, and so did Beck
and Die, so they went off.
Anyway, so I I said I'm stayinghome, I'm gonna start harvest.
So I started harvest um withthe crew, and um Dye came back
(07:52):
when we came back, and Die said,Oh, you know, tomorrow night we
we've got to duck down to Perthfor this one, um, you know,
Australia of the year stuff.
And I said, Oh, really?
You know, cool.
Um, and totally disregarding itall to a degree, thinking,
honestly thinking, what chancesa farmer and a farmer from a
northeast wheat belt or WesternAustralia have got of getting,
you know, um West Australian ofthe year.
(08:15):
And um so dropped down there,got down there fairly late,
three o'clock in the afternoon,bang, chucked a suit on,
straight in.
And it wasn't until we walkedthrough the door into gates in
the government house I sat backand thought, holy crap, this is
pretty serious, you know, likeum, you know, all the pomp and
glamour.
I thought, wow, and then I waspulled aside and introduced to
(08:36):
the other contestants.
And one chap there, I justforget his name at the moment,
he was um he developedantibiotic resistance testing,
you know, so hugely importantprofessional person.
I'm just a farmer, you know, sopretty casual about it all.
This is going to be a lovelyevening, you know, watching all
these proceedings andfast-forwarded a bit, and our
(08:57):
names were read out by HisExcellency Governor Dawson, and
um just sat there shell-shocked.
Thought, really?
So we got up and doing themotions.
You we were walking up to thestage, and you probably looked
we were talking because Dianeall of a sudden said, I
certainly hope you're gonna saysomething.
And I said, I kind of mentionedthat, like, bloody hell, I hope
(09:19):
you're saying something.
She said, No way.
So we're having a bit of adebate as we're walking up
there, and um, yeah, the rest'shistory.
AJ (09:28):
Did you even have any notes?
No, like you totally thoughtthere was no show.
No show.
Wow, okay, so so then how haslife changed since?
Ian (09:39):
What's the year been like?
It's been a massive year.
It's um it's a real whirlwind,and um I think what the
Australian of the year peopleare very they they know their
stuff, and we were pulled asidein the early stage, and you
know, I basically said to them,I said, listen, I don't, you
know, are we really, you know,Australian of the year material?
(10:01):
And they said, Listen, we knowwho we're selecting, we know
what we're doing, you know, andand I think at the end of the
day, they were very correctbecause what it's actually
bought out in us personally, andwhat we can do is um has been
been just really thinking, andthat's been from the from them
(10:22):
and so the education thatthey've brought to us, but also
for the from the people, theimportance of what we're doing.
You know, we we were throughoutthe whole process, we've been
come to by the medicalprofessional, senior professors,
scientists, things like that,saying actually thank you for
what you do, you know, andthey're and what they're
(10:43):
explaining to us is because wetalk about the microbiome a lot
in what we do and in healthyfood, and they're saying we are
getting hit with a wall, atsunami of ill health coming to
us, and we're doing everythingwe can to bring cures, remedies,
prolonged life, everything wecan, and we're we're basically
(11:04):
fighting losing battle, and werealise that somewhere down the
line they're putting the linkswith now the microbiome talks
about and researches aboutsomeone down this other end has
to start to close the floodgatesof ill health, and then that
end of a session, everythingwill start to work.
So it was really importantbecause they're just saying
thank you, you know, for beingthere and doing that and and
(11:28):
representing that.
So, you know, that was a lot ofencouragement for us to say
that this is an important role,we've got to take this really
seriously, get out of a comfortzone and make the best of it.
And the other area was throughthe governor and the governor
general.
The governor general pulling usaside saying, I am so excited
(11:49):
for this, for this, we have todo not waste this opportunity.
It is such a crucial pivotingpoint in human history and
planetary health that we getthis message out there, the
support's there.
So um that was pretty importantto us.
Di (12:05):
I guess also from our own perspective, is um you know,
some of the work we started backin 2008 with Major General
Michael Jeffrey, um who actuallywas the inaugural uh soil
advocate for Australia, and hispassion was enormous, and he
used to, you know, we were hisrecruits, weren't we, to try and
talk to scientists and theDavos mob and you know, trying
(12:26):
to get some of that big end oftown interested in these things,
you know, food, water, health,social security at the end of
the day, um, you know, withpeople around the world being
pushed for food and water andsocial stability and things
going to shit, basically, iswhat he described, and saying if
we don't take this as anational issue, we're gonna get,
(12:48):
you know, in all sorts ofbother.
Being a military man, he knowswhat creates those situations.
So to have his, you know,passion that he had at the end
of his years, he he never gaveup till the end.
Um, and then for us to be ableto stand there with all that,
and then have a new GovernorGeneral expressing the same
(13:11):
thing.
She understood the work thathe'd been doing, and she says, I
really want to grab this too.
She said, I've got five years,and um, you know, let's do what
we can.
So it gives you a fair boot upthe backside.
I mean, Mike Jeffrey gave usone in the beginning, and then
you know, to say, well, listen,what is your excuse?
Get out there and do it.
And I guess that's whattriggered the idea of having the
(13:31):
Alliance for Human andPlanetary Health, but also
having the Nourished Perth eventand the farm tour, bringing
those researchers on farm whothey wouldn't normally get that
sort of opportunity.
Some of them said they hadn'teven ever been out into the
wildflowers, let alone beingonto a farm.
And so you think, well, thesethings have to happen somehow,
and then bringing it back to thecommunity with the nourished
(13:52):
Perth event, just to rem youknow, there's a lot of interest
in food origins now, um, gettingto know what good food can do
for you and preventative healthcare.
You know, the community'sstarting to look down those
lenses.
So we've got to provideopportunity, otherwise it's not
gonna happen.
AJ (14:10):
Fascinating that the you know you have a 300 people event
called Nourish with thecommunity and with you know the
suppliers that you've linkedwith, the bakers and the brewers
and stuff that are using thegrains and and creating these
new supply networks, what are wecalling them now?
Relationships supplyrelationships.
Yeah, not chains, and uh howbeautiful that is.
Connecting with you knowroyalty as it were, like with
(14:32):
those upper echelons of ofacademia through to politics and
so forth.
And I think back to yeah, yourinitial kick up the butt, which
you've spoken about before fromfrom Mike Jeffries, but then
that's 15 years ago, and it'sbeen struggle, right, between
then and now.
I mean, sure you see stuffcoming on, but it feels
different now.
(14:52):
And I guess being in the roleyou've got, where even that
government house event was 60people strong of the of the ilk
you're talking about, and thenyour event in Canberra and so
forth.
I'm wondering for you, howdifferent does it feel from you
know, you connect with thegovernor general and he's
creating a high-profile NGO, youmight think, well, we're on the
way, but there's been some hardyards, right?
(15:13):
So is it different now?
Di (15:15):
I still think there's a a long road ahead, but now there
is a lot of enthusiasm, hope,and support coming from the
community.
I mean, look look at thenourish event.
It became it was something funand and joyful, whereas so much
stuff in the media now is youknow, doom and gloom, and we're
you know, it's is a focus on illhealth and you know instability
(15:37):
and things, and it was just amoment in time to actually
capture the joy and say wereally can do this as people, as
a community.
We can make these choices andwork together to have it better
for all of us.
And yes, I think there isdefinitely that feeling of hope
and enthusiasm from thecommunity coming up front and
centre.
Ian (15:56):
General Jeffrey's kick up the bum was we were sitting down
there one day and we're havinga cup of tea, and he just said
to me out of blue, he said, youknow what, Ian, he said, you
know, the weakest man I haveever met is a man that's got a
knowledge that can make adifference but doesn't do
anything about it.
And he just left it that.
And after a while I thought,wow, that's a kick-up bum.
(16:18):
And so we've virtually justjust carried on there, you know,
really, really from that.
So what what we're aware ofnow, and that's why we bought
Nourish Perth in.
So what while we're we'relooking at the bigger issues
with the other end of town andand and here, we have to bring
(16:40):
it to the people.
We have to get the people, givethem every bit of exposure that
we can to what ripe food andthe hope that's out there.
So that was the idea of um youknow bringing bringing that in.
So um, you know, and that andthat's what you know we'll we'll
continue to do.
Di (16:57):
I was just gonna say, isn't it fantastic that flavour is a
key indicator of soil health andthings coming along?
Well, yes.
AJ (17:05):
Well, and again, you know, this is I was talking to Fred
Prevenza over in the States,obviously, and and he showed us
that how many decades ago?
Like it's not new.
So again, it's come fromresearchers who've been spotting
this trend but learning ofthese uh amazing ingredients of
(17:25):
health.
But to think that there mightbe a moment where it connects up
is pretty tantalising.
So the years played out sincein a pretty busy fashion,
obviously.
You you've taken on the mantleof creating these sort of
community events, you're doingthe formal events, uh, the
governor's coming out to thefarm with his wife, too,
meetings with high-profilepeople across finance, uh,
(17:46):
research and so forth.
How do you how do you do that?
I guess how do you manage ayear when you're still farming,
but but you feel like we've gotto seize the moment.
This is on us to do this rightnow.
How do you juggle that and andhow has it been?
Di (18:04):
There's a couple of things there.
One, having a great team aroundus, we have a great support
network on the farm, and beyondthat, they're family members.
Ian (18:13):
Um we've got a really good team, and um and probably
actually having to um where thestrength comes, you know,
because it's a sixty sixtythousand-acre farm, you know, it
um it doesn't run itself and ittakes a bit of doing.
And um just a team, you know,like um it it's um how can I put
(18:40):
that the strength that they'vebought together is um uh it's
been amazing.
Di (18:46):
I will say also um just the system itself, the farming
system itself, because theanimals have got it sorted.
We've we're keeping an eye onand making sure that that's you
know, nothing goes AWOL, butit's so much easier.
Um, yeah, when you've got avery healthy system, you're not
having to go and you know, dealwith diseases and all that kind
(19:07):
of thing.
It's um that's amazing to hearthat system.
AJ (19:11):
Keep going with this.
Di (19:11):
Yeah, so you can actually get a fair bit done just by
being there and you're nothaving to deal, you know, put
out bushfires all the time, Isuppose.
And that's uh what we're allaiming for at the end of the
day.
AJ (19:22):
This is what we hear about, isn't it?
The self-organising systems.
And in theory, again, decadesof work on it, but there it is.
Ian (19:29):
Yeah, because our whole team are in tune with the
environment and what's happeningon on prop on country, the
efficiencies are huge.
You know, whether it be Beckwith the sheep, Matthew with the
main operations of the croppingoperations.
We've got a Ragnar, an Estonianwhiz kid.
(19:50):
Um rags is just brilliant withmachinery.
He's under huge stress at themoment because I give him um I
give him two million dollarsworth of harvesters to put
$70,000 worth of parts in, andhe's in his happy zone.
But we've left him with threeKelpies, Bex Kangaroo, and a
cat, and he's under huge stress.
Um everyone plays their roleand gets out of their comfort
(20:14):
zone.
And just the lead up to theseevents, like nourish, the
governor's event, the farm tour,like to have three events in
one week, months and months inthe planning of doing, but you
know, like everyone steps likeMatthew.
We've got one of our roadtrains is on the road at the
moment, you know.
We're carting grain and doingthings for the farm.
So he's been knocking out alazy 4,000 K's a week in a road
(20:38):
train on the road, plus cominghome at night, organising all
these events at the same time.
So everyone's just foundanother level and another
strength, and that's connectionto country.
And they're all healthy anddoing really well, but
everyone's relying off everyone.
If it's not for that connectionto country, is what's driving
them for the better good.
AJ (21:00):
Yeah, I take stock of that.
I take stock of that for how weeach try and do that in our own
parts of the puzzle, but notalone.
It's come through a bit, hasn'tit, throughout this and
probably throughout the week?
Don't don't do it alone, havethe have the team, have the
family.
Yeah.
I'm wondering what signs thereare of people at higher levels
(21:20):
that can bring the backing,bring the policy shifts, uh, for
example.
Are they going next level?
So you're hearing a lot of talkand a lot of promise, you've
heard that for a lot of years.
Is there a sense of morecommitment coming from those
levels?
Di (21:37):
Finally, I think so, but I think that there is a huge chasm
of lack of understanding atsome of those ends.
Whilst they might know some ofit intellectually, they it
really makes a change when theycome on farm and they actually
feel it.
Um we have had some, you know,one of the Australians of the
year that we met put us incontact with some very high-end
(22:01):
high one of the big four banks,one of their top echelon.
And they actually committed andgot him to fly from Melbourne
to our farm and spend a wholeday out there with our local
bank manager and the state bankmanager, and they never get to
talk to that level of people upthe bank.
And he it just blew him away.
(22:23):
He, you know, they talk aboutall this stuff, and he was the
you know, risk manager and soforth, and to actually see what
it really meant at ground leveland what some of these farming
businesses can actually do fornot only their whole risk
profile, but what's the big endof town?
You know, there's a lot of umcorporate responsibility stuff,
(22:43):
you know, social responsibilitystuff coming into these
businesses now, and rightly so.
And how do they, you know, settheir business up to you know,
rec recognise that, I guess.
And so we're just showingthere's clearly, you know, with
people looking after the land,that are that's where they've
got to be putting theirinvestment into and their
(23:04):
support, because without us,none of that's really gonna
happen, and you know, things aregonna go to you know, crap in a
handbasket.
But um anyway, but yeah, thefact that they got people like
that flew them all the way out,and that was the only visit he
had was to come out to the farmand think, okay, we're getting
through.
And we have been talking to afew other ones at you know that
(23:26):
higher-end corporate level, andyeah, they've got fair big gaps
in the knowledge, but at leastthey're expressing some
interest, which wasn't reallyhappening before.
Ian (23:35):
Yeah, I hear you.
The magic thing about um theAustralian of the year process
is it's it it put and foragriculture, so this is one of
the first with agriculture, itputs you in an alumni of people
that have been in this position,Australians of the year, and
you know, young leaders andlocal heroes, in alumni with
(23:57):
them right the way back fromwhen it first started.
And and some of these peoplehave are very successful, you
know, they they've been there,they've done it.
So we've been able to link inwith them on that that that
common level and get doors openso we can actually get the doors
open to go with where we needto do to actually take these
(24:18):
take these subjects up, and andthey really need to be followed
up because it just hasn't beenwhile we do everything wonderful
here, but back there, you know,and if people say, Oh, you
know, it's the small foodmovement and the food movement,
that's great, but everything'shappening pretty good on there
and and can be better, but alsothe big multinational movement
(24:39):
needs to be spoken to becauseit's in the that middle escalons
of them that everything stalls,doesn't happen, and then all of
a sudden the easy way is we'vejust ticks two boxes through a
certification, and oh, that'sall happy, but it's really
achieving nothing.
So actually getting to them,which is what we've been doing,
and really call it calling itout to a degree, you know,
(25:03):
asking the question.
Not we we've got nothing tohide, not taking no for an
answer, not just being shovedaway, but just just pushing
through on that.
So it's um yeah, it's beenreally important and it's been
happening.
AJ (25:15):
Interesting.
Di (25:16):
Yeah, I think it's a case of yeah, having the strength and
guts to say people on the landhave got a lot of wisdom, a lot
of capability, and you need usmore than we need you.
And if if it isn't for thepeople on the ground, it's yeah,
we're not gonna have much of afuture.
AJ (25:32):
Yeah, it's been something that's coming through loud and
clear too, the the shift instory at that level of farmers
as peasants.
I mean, even just thedemonization of the word
peasant, but in other parts ofthe world that's not perceived
this way.
Just the stories we have behindthe people and and of course
the the way farmers have beenmarginalized, just in that way,
let alone the functional ways.
So, speaking of alumni, when Iwas asked to be a reference for
(25:54):
you guys and my you know, anhonour, I looked at who the
other ones winning across thecountry would be, the Victorian
of the year and so forth.
I thought, wow, imagine ifyou're Australians of the year,
geez, and then I was like, Oh,who's that?
What's that person done?
Yeah, all these incrediblepeople, some of which I hadn't
heard of before, and learningabout what they're doing, and
the same would have been true.
Hey, these guys wouldn't havebeen known across the country,
(26:16):
or by that former Australian ofthe year, I doubt.
And I saw the Victorian of theyear, Neil Danaher, and I
thought, they got no chance,he's a shoe-in, and he was, but
you met him, you met the Danaherfamily, and you had a really
interesting conversation.
I'm fascinated by this becausehis whole, I mean, what Neil's
achieved, it's justextraordinary, and everybody
(26:37):
knows about that.
The MND freeze campaign, thebeanies, and the millions and
millions they've risked they'veraised for research, but back
end after it's been had.
But you had a conversation withthem where they were really
interested in getting, as yousaid before, die preventative
front end.
Can you tell us about that?
Ian (26:55):
Yeah, no, it was interesting, you know.
So we got to know the Danaherfamily um pretty well, and um
and Neil, you know, and at thatstage he didn't have his new
talking machine, and um and youknow, he was really connecting
with us.
And um Jan and Beck and thefamily, you know, we were super.
And we're sitting on the busone day, you know, I was sitting
(27:16):
beside Jan, we're going to afunction, and we just started
talking, and she was asking thequestion after she'd heard us
talk a few times, and she askeda question about their farm
where where their originaloriginal family farm was.
And that farm happened to be inwhat's called is it MMD Alley
or MD Alley MMD Alley, thatfarm.
(27:37):
And and she said to me juststraight out, do you think, you
know, we she remembers therewhen they were young people that
you know there was a lot of lotof pesticides and herbicides
getting used.
And um she said, Do you thinkthat could have been a
contributing factor?
And of course, I don't know,but you know, as we all know, it
could be a very contributingfactor for things to come out of
(27:58):
the blue.
So what that's done is it'sjust got got them really,
really, really thinking.
Looking back in hindsight, itwas really interesting because
um, and we're just so glad forNeil to be to be getting that,
you know.
But but what an actually we areable to have conversations with
Neil.
We had conversations at Optusuh an event was on for Neil just
(28:18):
a while ago, and um just awonderful human being.
The strength that he's done andthe encouragement he gives
other people was just justamazing.
(29:37):
I'm so moved by that questionthat was put to you.
So MND alley, who's come acrossthat term?
Uh nobody.
Okay, yeah, Will.
So terms like cancer alley havebeen associated with the
Mississippi Basin, for example,because they've got these
concentrations of cancer and itImplicated the runoff, the
(30:01):
nutrient runoff is implicated.
And horrifyingly, we have founda similar pattern with MND that
there's a concentration of MNDin the riverina, which is where
their farm was, with these sortsof issues.
So it is raising the question,and blessedly, there are and a
couple of other sufferers whoare farmers from there who have
(30:23):
put themselves on the line too,with some researchers who are
going there.
And these are the sorts ofresearchers that you guys are
connecting with here now, too.
Have been there doing theirwork while you've been doing
your work, and now you're allconnecting across the country.
It's magnificent.
Alright, before we throw toeveryone else here and get a
broader conversation going, Idon't want to leave this stage
without the call that you putout at Government House, that
(30:47):
the practical call for whatyou're perceiving as almost a
well, at least A, if not thecritical leverage point
possibility.
Very doable, not much money,but it needs some.
And the backing hasn't beencoming, but maybe it will now.
Let's share it, huh?
Let's put in the ether a littlefurther with the um the food
hub idea.
Yeah, so um yeah, the government house do was was
(31:10):
absolutely amazing, and we'vewe've got to thank the governor
for making these thingsavailable.
You know, incredible people.
He actually took time out anddie.
And I had to go to we went toGovernment House heaps of times
just to sit down and have cupsof tea, talk about natural
intelligence farming and talkabout the food system, but they
(31:31):
had that big interest there.
And the governor general also,and then culminating with farm
visits and that, and culminatingin government house now using
whatever natural intelligenceproducts they can get in their
own kitchens.
So now the the breads and theflowers and that the flour and
that is all standard fare there.
(31:52):
So whenever having all eventsand they have have lots of
dining and meals and that, it istheir number one topic of
conversation about the food thatthey're eating.
So they're really walking towalk as well as talking to talk.
So, you know, that that eventthem getting behind that and
getting that knowledge was justhuge.
And and I suppose for us asfarmers, you know, which I'd
(32:14):
like to share with people, isyou can, when we think things a
bit hard, you can get out thereand do that.
You know, we've had to makespeeches, and that was probably
one of the bigger high-pressurespeeches we had to do because
the people we had in the room,from leading professors to
politicians to um First Nationspeople to to everyone
(32:39):
philanthropists,philanthropists, um, head high
court judges, everything there.
Um so we had to get a messageacross in a short period of
time.
And the governor said to us,and everyone was sitting in the
royal room, and we're walkingdown the hallway, and the
governor said to us, You've gotto make this happen.
This has to happen, you know,no pressure, but um, you know,
(33:02):
we've got to knock this out ofthe ground.
I was sitting there thinking,she's like, I'm not a public
speaker at all.
And um, I've got to introducethis and I've got to set this
up.
And one of the things we and II thought of a couple of ideas,
what to talk about that, justtwo rough ideas, and hopefully,
and and when you're in such ashort period of time, two words
(33:24):
put together can change thewhole focus of where it goes if
you don't get them right.
Every word has to got right, begot right, and you can't go
back over your truck tracks.
You have to deliveron-the-point speech and tick all
the boxes with these people.
And I was just walking downthis hallway thinking, holy
(33:44):
crap, um, you know, how I'mgonna do this.
So, what I actually drew on,and and I think that's where it
gets back to what Nicole was onto back there, but also what you
know Orl and Heidi have taughtus and the connection of
country, um, which we rely on,which gives us a lot of our
indications and actually how wework country on onto property.
(34:07):
I asked for help from the fromthe ancestors of from the old
people, people here being 65,000years.
This is important, put theright words in your mouth.
And we've done a few speechesnow, and every time it's been
pretty good.
They've done it that's right.
You know, it helps takes yourpressure off because you know
you're actually being lookedafter from somewhere else.
(34:27):
So, and it's just amazing howthat can fall into place and
work.
So, what I'm hinting to is inour whole farming and life
systems, if we integrate thistraditional knowledge, a lot of
this knowledge and a lot of theawareness what's out there, um
it can actually help you througha lot of things.
Right on then.
Di (34:48):
I think they um yeah, what the question you were looking at
with the food hub side of thething is um you were hoping to
try and bring you know a centreclose to the city, or ideally it
would be a place that could bean educational place as well,
but where we could bring youknow more produce.
I mean we've got we'refortunate to have some
relationships at the moment withbakeries and breweries that are
(35:10):
you know creating thosewonderful products for people to
consume.
But we want to broaden thatnet.
We need to look at you know,Jeff and Michelle, who were just
speaking in the tent in theprevious sessions, and you know,
making it more possible forpeople like that to have their
food you know together so thatother people can come in and
there can be more of a one-stopshop to get access to more of
(35:31):
this kind of stuff.
Um, because that is some of theyou know, there's too big a
cost and up, you know, loss ofopportunity for people trying to
do it on their own, at leastlike you're saying before.
I mean, how does everyone getthese opportunities together?
You can't do it all on yourown, it's just such a big cost,
and as as Jeff was saying a lot.
So we want to try and bringthat to make that a real
(35:52):
possibility so that people inthe city can have you know
better choices and moreavailability as a starting
point.
AJ (36:00):
And the farmers can have better choices too.
I like the fact that your graineven just goes into the general
CBH stock and is lost for therecognition.
So it's not through thosechannels you get you've
established locally, but thatcomes with the power of work.
But so to generate thosesystems, I mean you've even said
Ian that to expect to work evenwork out more farmers farming
(36:22):
in this sort of a way is a bitcar before horse now.
Now we need the systems thatmake it possible to enable them
to operate in this way withwithout being so borderline
struggle, and you know, Jefftalked about that today too, I'm
sure I wasn't over there, butthat's that's been the lot, and
he's now doing his owndeliveries to Perth Metro.
I mean, for example.
So it's an exciting piece ofthe thing to think that
(36:45):
something as simple as a pieceof infrastructure at City's Edge
could be that for more farmers,and and you guys for a start,
and then others, and that uhit's a place for people like us
who can't get the three hours tothe farm and you couldn't
handle them all anyway, but toget there for produce but also
education and contact,relationship, supply
(37:06):
relationships you were saying,including I'm weaving back to
you, Ian, with the the FirstNations thing, hey, to connect
on that.
So your connections on farmthrough to connecting in this in
this thing.
So it's something you havepitched for a a bunch of years
to people, but they haven't,like the land you mentioned
earlier, they haven't jumped atit.
Di (37:24):
And I guess that will like Ian was saying, that um
Opportunity Government House, wedid get approached by an
ex-politician who uh has said,you know, the idea of co-ops and
that some of the um backgroundinformation around that is
making it a lot more achievableand really pushing us to now go
and do something in that space.
So we're just gonna have to geta bit creative.
(37:45):
Um, they've offered a bit moresupport for us to try and really
make it happen because they'reseeing that need because there
is a huge loss ofinfrastructure.
It all has got you know the bigend of towns taking control,
um, not offering opportunity forany smaller producers.
It's all you know gone to thewayside.
As Jeff Powell says, there wasyou know 50 or 60 um small-time
(38:07):
abattoirs only you know 40 or 50years ago, and now there's you
can barely get a contract killanywhere.
So, you know, all those thingsthat have been taken away from
us as a population to havediversity, that local um
opportunity, uh is yeah, we'vegot to resurrect that, but it's
gonna take some funding andsupport to get there because you
can't expect individual farmersto be doing that.
(38:28):
But we've got to, if you know,there is some access through
some government supportmechanisms, but uh keeping on
talking to the big end of townas well because you know some of
them have got a conscious andheart too, and um they'd like to
see some changes, so we've justgot to keep at it.
AJ (38:42):
And there's that big policy shift in Victoria, hey, just in
the last month or so, I think.
Yeah, where um the regulationsshifted, so there's ways to do
that too, to to get it open upwhere microabits now can be can
be done liberally and what thatcould unleash.
Ian (38:56):
I think that's the part of this, what Dia's talked about
launching of this planetaryhealth alliance.
It's not just talking about theresearchers talking about how
the health systems of thehealthy food works, but it's
talking right the way back ofactually how do we get the food
to the people in its integrity.
And um what we've been afterprove for what we do and what
(39:16):
Matthew's done, you know, evenwith the beer, for example, it
is not hard to double farm gateprice.
So if you went to all farmersout there and said, well, you
know, we can easily double farmgate price, they'd be in like in
a blink, um, and not actuallyincrease the cost to the to the
customer by by next to much all.
And that's what we've got toachieve.
We've got to uh achieveaffordable, good quality food to
(39:40):
the customer that's um and theand the producer actually ends
up getting more than what a lotmore than what they're getting
now, and that's achievablebecause of what we've been able
to prove that's just all gettinggobbled up at the moment by
that middleman.
So that's a part of theseconversations that we're opening
up, so we've got to do thesethings.
AJ (39:58):
Oh, and you talk about food security and access and so
forth.
The the conundrum's always beensure, great if a farmer can get
a premium, but not many peoplewill be able to access it.
The vast majority of peoplewon't be able to access it.
So to solve that conundrum,actually get a way to yeah,
double the price at the gate,but not change it outside the
gate.
Ian (40:16):
I explained a um a scenario, and this was back in
grounded in December, and I'ddone some numbers, I did some
numbers really quickly, and thatyear, what was it, what are we
in now, 25, 2024.
The amount of grain that wedelivered into the conventional
market, so just went into thebulk market, that grain which
(40:37):
gets sold as a commodity.
So we're selling our grainthese days as in that bulk
market as a commodity, exactlythe same as we're selling iron
ore.
So our food is treated exactlythe same as we treat iron ore.
And I did the figures and theamount of grain, so X amount
goes off to the small artisanalbakeries and things like that,
which is which is reallyfantastic.
(40:59):
But we delivered another, Idon't know, how much was it,
Matthew, into the dimension what16,000 metric tons we delivered
into that into that market.
I quickly did the figures.
If we were to put that throughan industrial mill, um steel
mill, milled at temperature,totally destroying the quality
(41:20):
of that grain at a 75%conversion rate, which is
roughly what they get.
Then baked into the lowestquality, high-processed Wonder
White loaf of bread, sold atWoolworths or somewhere for, I
don't know, I've never bought aloaf of bread, but maybe four or
five dollars.
That grain that we deliveredwas worth $95 million, that
(41:42):
grain in loaves of bread.
We received under four.
So you can't say there's a $91million change in there
somewhere.
So you can't say that there'snot room in our food production
process to give more back to theenvironment.
AJ (42:00):
Dear me.
All right.
Open of the floor.
Who wants to contribute?
Let I'm is there somebody whocan run for me?
Tegan, do you want to do a mic?
Would ya?
Thanks.
Questioner (42:10):
Thank you.
What a wonderful story.
How do uh we support whatyou're doing?
How do we get involved?
Good question.
AJ (42:21):
Um opens the alliance, Di?
Like what's gonna happen withthat?
Di (42:25):
It might be a good Yeah, I guess um we we're just gonna
start off for those that haveexpressed interest, or yeah, if
anyone wants to express furtherinterest in that, are flying by
the seat of our pants at themoment because I've never ever
done anything like this.
Um, but there is a few kindpeople who put their hand up to
help guide us.
Um but yeah, I think havingmore conversations of what your
(42:48):
capacity is, what you'rethinking, um, yeah, just having
a conversation, I think.
Questioner (42:54):
Sorry, I'm asking specifically because we have uh
young family friends who createdthe Natural Farming Alliance.
It's a much smaller grassrootsmodel that's doing exactly that
you you're talking big big agsize.
So that's the other end of thespectrum, and I'd love you to
have a conversation.
Ian (43:15):
So we're really really lucky with this because the
Forest Research Foundation cameon board, so that's their big
setup there in Netherlands thatthey've at um Twee's pumped
heaps of heaps of money into andthey're actually doing a lot of
wonderful stuff about bringingyou know students in from all
over the globe and supportingthem to do research.
So part of that in the firstinitial meetings will be
(43:38):
building a structure.
So how that exact question, howcan everyone support?
So while you have people doingresearch and doing all of that,
how everyone we're gonna try andwork that out how we can bring
everyone as a bang as acommunity-led support as well,
and and all differentorganisations to bring it
together so we can work incollaboration and get those
(43:58):
results.
Spread the word.
AJ (44:01):
Yeah, that's it.
I'm hearing there's an informthere's a formal side sort of
brewing and able to connect withother semi-formal or formal
aspects, but there's aninformal, as you said, die, the
conversation sort of almostfirst to just connect and and
see what might thousand flowersblooming type stuff.
And of course, then there'salways the just back in these
supply relationships when youfind them, huh?
(44:22):
Like the people who are sellingfood here and the millers and
bakers of the world that you'vebeen supplying to, and now
little creatures and thecanfield brewing down there.
Ian (44:29):
Well, probably our thing as a business like our farms
prospect pastural company is to,apart from doing all of this
work that's happening on, isactually to set the example.
So what we've done, and thereason why, one of the good
reasons why we've got scale iswe can develop markets.
So our wool, for example, youknow, we grow enough wool to
(44:50):
fill complete containers, andwe've been able to get send that
overseas, get that processed inits own entirety, you know, and
it goes in through Italy, andthen actually work on that story
with the brand.
So now all that wool goes tothe likes of Stella McCartney
and the top fashion labels andgo, we see it on the catwalk.
Because we've been able todirectly link the production
(45:12):
method and the story with thatand have the entirety of
produce.
If we would have had to bringin half a dozen other farmers,
that would have all gotshattered a bit and in the story
and how it's all gone.
So that market's there andgetting developed.
Now we as we go along, we'llopen that market up to the right
farmers to actually join in onthat.
And the same thing is whatwe'll do with the the grain.
(45:33):
You know, if we have to go andbuild a $30 million grain mill,
that's what we've and you know,hopefully we don't have to do it
all ourselves.
But if that's what's required,if that if we have to do those
things and set the markets up,we've got the grain there.
So the biggest issue is I'vegot we've got uh a person we
deal with in the United Statesthat actually set up a grain
mill, and um, you know, they Ithink it's only a 12,000 tonne a
(45:55):
year mill and paid for it inthree years, but his big biggest
thing was he's got a half adozen or a dozen farmers that
have to supply the grain, andthat's his hardest part.
So we've actually got the grainnow to set the mill, which will
make the mill actually goquicker, and then we can open it
up to other farmers.
So that's what we're trying todo as Prospect Partial, so
blazed away in some of themarkets.
(46:17):
So um when we can introduce itto other farmers.
Questioner (46:20):
That's the proof of concept.
I keep bobbing up and downbecause I can't see I can't see
you.
My question about the food hub,well, first of all, brilliant
idea.
It's got to happen.
It's just got to happen.
Um I've we know because we takefood tours around Australia
connecting consumers with umwith producers to to tell them
(46:41):
where their food is coming from.
The the conversations thatwe're having today are not
getting through to theconsumers.
So that's like where Anthonyand I sit is like that conduit
to the consumer.
Um for us as well, food isexceptionally important.
I've been in food all my life.
Um Anthony's an ex-farmer.
And so to have somewhere to goin the city to buy food Monday
(47:05):
through to Sunday massive,massive thing.
And well, you know, we talk tofarmers all the time, and we've
had a lot of very sadconversations with farmers very
recently with all the wetweather that we've had.
They have got so much food thatthey need to get to the markets
on Saturday and Sunday, but themarkets are closed because of
(47:27):
the rain.
So what do they do?
And it's just been the mosthorrendous situation.
So it's got to be somethingmore than the farmers' markets
are brilliant.
But not everyone can go on aSaturday and Sunday, and if it
rains, everyone gets wet.
So I think the food hub is justso exciting.
Di (47:43):
Absolutely brilliant.
And I think that's the thingtoo, because for some farmers
it's accessible to take theirproduce to a farmer's market,
but for some like us, it justisn't going to work.
Um, and so to have yeah, itavailable all week, like you're
saying, is yeah, reallynecessary.
Questioner (48:00):
And the other thing is like Miller and Baker,
fantastic.
We know Mark take people roundhis bakery and and we talk about
your grain and everything.
For me, I make bread at homeall the time, sourdough bread
every week, but I can't get yourflour and unless I go to Miller
and Baker.
So, you know, that's anotherthing for me.
I don't want to make bread withanyone else's flour now because
(48:21):
I know so much more about it.
I've been educated.
So, yeah, we need your flourelsewhere.
Ian (48:27):
Yeah, we have to make it all accessible.
You know, Miller and Baker do awonderful job, but the biggest
complaint I have go there, youknow, people sitting there and
they're 20 deep in the line andthey haven't got time, so we
have to make that moreaccessible.
And and what so we've got wildbakery now, so that that's
really good.
But even more than that, again,we have to make that accessible
to everyone.
AJ (48:48):
Bears mentioning that that's a hell of a success story, too,
isn't it?
Like it it's instructive in theway you've described, but they
too were borderline.
Can we make it through?
All the same stuff at that partof the supplier relationship,
and uh and blessedly they'remaking it through.
And uh not uh it's such hardyakker and such, you know,
bearing some risk, again blazinga trail, but um so amazing
(49:11):
success story that they shouldbe 20 D.
But yeah, let it breed, let itspread.
Ian (49:16):
Great example to follow, though.
Barry Green (49:17):
Right on, yeah.
As always, fantastic listeningto you both.
I was involved in the formationof the organic meat co-op in
about 2007.
Sadly, that no longer exists asa co-op.
This whole problem of uhabattoir access, and and this
problem's been created bygovernment.
As Jeff was saying, you know,people weren't getting sick from
the small abattoirs, but thisis something that's come from
(49:39):
further up.
That this this idea ofstandards, uh, it's so often it
seems to be uh you know, there'sno reason for it, it's just
policy.
So the the the politiciansthey've created this mess, so we
you know we've got to work withthem to change that.
And I think that the the thingsyou're talking about, the the
fundamental problem we have isthat we've got a food system
(50:01):
based on down, down on price,and yet we subsidise the
sickness industry.
So, from a government point ofview, they've got to reverse
that because it's sending thembroke.
So we've got to present aneconomic argument to government.
You've got to take an interestin the quality of the food so
you don't have to spend so muchon the sickness industry.
Want to comment on it?
AJ (50:20):
And the drought relief, etc., etc.
Flood recovery.
Ian (50:24):
So some of the examples we'll probably put in through
the alliance as well.
And I don't know, I hear frompeople they they go to hospital,
and um, hospitals are uh areare meant to cure people and fix
people up, so they go and havewhatever they have done, and why
they're laying in bed for thenext two days, they generally
eat the most uh unhealthiestfood they can get, you know,
when we're meant to berecovering.
(50:46):
And you're sitting therethinking, really?
This is our hospital.
So, one of my aims in part ofthis as alliance is say, let's
just take one of these hospitalsto start off with and make sure
that when people are in therethey're eating the best possible
food that this state cansupply, you know.
Start those examples happeningto um to take that through.
(51:07):
And Fiona Stanley was present,wasn't she, at Government House?
Di (51:11):
Was she there?
She ended up not being able tomake the evening because one of
her children or grandchildren,sorry, was unwell and she was in
Melbourne with her.
But um yeah, Fiona Wood wasthere.
AJ (51:21):
And Fiona Wood was there.
Yeah, so these people againstretching into the health
industry like that, yeah.
That's again, it's gotta beit's gotta be done, but it's got
to be possible too now, itwould seem.
Yeah.
Could we get a mic down here,Tegan?
Thank you.
Questioner (51:34):
I'm sort of curious, because you're growing grain,
that's great.
You're growing wheat and wool,that's great.
What about the rest of yourfood?
Who grows that?
Di (51:42):
As in that we supply the market or on farm food.
Questioner (51:44):
No, everything you eat.
Who grows that?
Di (51:47):
Um, well, we've got a veggie patch, fortunately, Beck, who's
out the back there, um, she'sgot a good veggie patch.
Um, yeah, that's primarily whatwe do.
So we had our own lamb and ourown uh bread, which we buy from
Miller and Baker in Bolt when wego down to Perth and buy the
flour and so forth.
But yeah, that is part of ourdream too, to have more on farm,
(52:08):
virtually growing a lot morediversity, and that's part of
that community building on farmas well.
We're having people that canthat's their passion to do that.
We want to have a big externalkitchen, I suppose, that the
whole farming community can cometogether and share at least one
meal a day, and then because wedo have people that come in and
want to be part of the farm andexperience it as well, and they
(52:28):
could eat with the crew um anyday of the week.
So, yeah, that is part of thelonger term plan to grow more
and more on farm.
AJ (52:35):
People running chooks, bees, whatever.
Di (52:37):
Yeah, our eldest son's in the process of setting up his
first chook wagon, so gettingthere, but it you know what it's
like.
Questioner (52:44):
Lovely to listen to you and hear hear of your
experience.
Um just interested in your talkabout the health and the food.
Having experienced that as ahealth professional working in a
hospital and also as arecipient of health care
recently, um I used to gothrough the chef's pantry and
look at all the cans of food.
And they're all imported.
(53:06):
And we're not like we're notsupporting our um Golden Valley
fruit that's all being pulledout.
Well, not maybe not all of it'sgone, but a lot of it's gone.
And you go to the supermarketand it's from China or South
Africa or somewhere else.
And we should be supporting ourown farmers, even if it costs a
(53:27):
few dollars more.
Di (53:29):
Well, that's the thing when it comes down to food
sovereignty and food security,and I mean we have an incredible
nation here with suchbiodiverse landscapes and it
what it can produce, thediversity of foodstuffs and so
forth, and we've really, youknow, disregarded that for a
long period of time to our owndetriment.
Um, but I think you know, wecan't give up hope, and we've
(53:50):
that's the focus going forward,isn't it, to reinvigorate that
and focus more at a local level,um, getting that that trusted
quality food with integrity ontoour table so that we can at
least um trigger better healthuh at a local level and from you
know beyond there as we go.
AJ (54:08):
And no one's turning down the good stuff when they can get
access to it.
So it sort of comes back towhat we've been talking about.
Yeah, Will, have your mic inyour head?
Will Bignell (54:16):
Yeah, yep.
So um look, I I commend what'sgoing on, it's great to
evaluate.
I've I've been doing that ourwhole lifetime with our family
farm, selling grain into bakersand whatnot, but lion's share
goes into dairy cows to makemilk, it is good butter.
But um I suppose it a commentto feed into those questions,
the hollowing out of thesupermarket.
The supermarket's adistribution channel, right?
(54:38):
It's a mirror of what we eat aspeople.
We'll say we'll do one thingbefore we go in, but we do
another thing when our hippocket burns.
Uh, if you compare the cart towhat we say we're going to buy
when we go out, it's it's twodifferent things, it's diapost.
So that's a value propositionthat we as consumers, it's a
message we need to convey andhold supermarkets and build our
brands to account to buy theseproducts.
Because in some ways I shudderwhen you say you've got to
(55:01):
double the money.
That there's a cost to do allthis for the marketing and to
scale and to grow.
Um, but getting thesebusinesses that are established
that have these products andgetting them to understand that
value proposition of healthyfood and this is what we need is
so hard.
Um, do you guys feel that youcan still keep you can scale
this to get this the you know,to get the B double hauling good
baker's grain straight downinto a into a you know, the
(55:24):
wonder white is now not fairybread, it's it is wonder white.
Do you reckon you can scale it?
Like I I I desperately want tosee it.
It burnt me up, but I Idesperately want to see it.
Do you feel you can keepscaling and growing and doing
the part trajectory you've hadgoing down this path?
Di (55:40):
I think there just seems to be more people wanting to come
on board and be part of that andtry and make that achievable.
Um and certainly like Anne wastalking about that the grain
mill idea.
Um there is some really goodstuff happening around the world
to make these things possibleand we've just got to stick at
it and yeah, working very muchat a local level, but if it
(56:01):
becomes that we can actuallyproduce more, you know, West
Australia and Australia is afood export nation, but yet
we're eating poorly ourselves,we're not even accessing it, you
know, at a local level.
So um yeah, I think there is alot more hope there than I would
have said five years ago.
Ian (56:19):
Yeah, I I definitely think we can scale it, and um and we
have to scale it because umwhat's the other alternative?
You know, it's um we've got nochoice but not to scale it and
keep working it hard, and youknow, we haven't got all the
answers.
Hopefully, Haggerty familydon't have to keep pushing away,
and it's about collaboration,so we open it up to everyone
(56:40):
that wants to come on board andsay, hey, help us scale it, you
know, in every facet becausewe've got no other options.
We have to scale it, we have tomake it work, we have to get
the food through and itsintegrity, and um, and we've
been lucky enough to have a lotof doors open and go around the
world and say there definitelyis things, examples in place
that we can follow and tap onto.
(57:01):
And and I think the way theworld's going at the moment with
the shakeup around the world,there is a little bit more focus
to say we've been pretty lazyjust buying everything in and
sending the up the raw materialsoffshore.
I think now, hello, you know,we're gonna wake up a little bit
and think we have to do somethings at home, you know.
(57:21):
Maybe we have to even try andget the ability to put a
beetroot in an aluminium can inAustralia, which we can't seem
to do.
AJ (57:28):
So we've come into time, let's call it there.
Would you please give a massivehand to Di and Ian Haggerty?
Thank you again to Matthew,Sadie, Ollie, Georgie, Nadia,
Tegan, Mitchell, and the wholeteam at Grounded for generously
(57:48):
providing that recording and thewhole setup from which it
sprung.
And of course, thanks to yousubscribing listeners for making
the episode possible.
This week, special thanks toDana Scott over in Baltimore for
doubling your Patreonsubscription.
You might remember Dana fromthe Chaco Canyon episodes 264
and 5.
And thanks to Tanya Massy,Nadine Hollamby, Kristy Bryden,
(58:12):
Mark Kowald, Dave Godden, andChris Diehl, also over in New
Mexico.
Thanks so very much fornotching up your fourth
anniversary of support.
I'm so grateful.
If you'd like to join us, bepart of this great community,
get some exclusive stuff andhelp keep the show going, please
do by just heading to thewebsite or the show notes and
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(58:33):
A reminder that Grounded 2026will be heading to the Otways of
Victoria in April, after ourAutumn Equinox course on the
Murray River, and the Groundedpodcast will also launch soon
with all the recordings to date.
And you can find a few morephotos from today's panel
conversation on TheRegenNarration website.
(58:53):
The music you're hearing isRegeneration by Amelia Bardin.
My name's Anthony James.
Thanks for listening.
And the other area was through the governor and the
governor general.
The governor general pulling usaside saying, I am so excited
for this, for this.
We have to do not waste thisopportunity.
It is such a crucial pivotingpoint in human history and
planetary health that we getthis message out there.
(00:20):
The support's there.
AJ (00:24):
G'day, Anthony James here for The RegenNarration, your
ad-free, freely available,listener-supported podcast,
exploring how people areregenerating the systems and
stories we live by.
Continuing our series todayfrom the Grounded Festival here
in Australia, a conversationwith West Australians of the
Year, pioneers of naturalintelligence farming, and so
(00:45):
much more beyond the farm,Dianne and Ian Haggerty.
We talk about what it's likebeing West Aussies of the Year
and farmers, and go from thereonce again into some emotional
and hilarious exchanges onwhat's emerging from the year,
how different things feel now,and the call to all parties to
(01:05):
rally now towards some biggervisions.
Weaved into all that, we alsofurther explore the incredible
week that was here in WA,including their three big
events.
From the launch of a newalliance at Government House to
a tour on farm ahead of theRegenerating Food Systems
Conference, featured on thepodcast in recent weeks, through
(01:26):
to their first enormouscommunity showcase event.
And as it happens, the newalliance you'll hear more about
here has its first developmentworkshop on today.
So more on that soon.
There was so much to talkabout.
So let's head back to thesun-drenched green of Galloway
Springs Farm.
G'day everyone, welcome back.
(01:47):
We're about to start the nextsession with Ian and Di
Haggerty.
So firstly, calling Ian and DiHaggerty.
I hope they're nearby.
Yeah, there's the hat.
The hats.
Welcome, Ian and Di.
Actually, let's get you walkingdown the aisle with the big
announcement of some kind.
West Australians of the year2025.
Yeah.
Grab a seat, Di.
(02:10):
You can be the rose between thethorns.
I just came back to the countrynot long ago, and uh these guys
said they had a reception, awelcome at Government House,
which was just last Monday.
Would I help out with a littlepanel there?
So of course I did.
But wow, start the week atGovernment House in the Royal
Room, which has a bigger thanlife size uh painting of Queen
(02:34):
Elizabeth at a younger age fromhalfway up the wall to the
ceiling, and that's where thatwas sort of above where Die was
presenting at the lectern, andit looked, I remember I called I
called you matriarch of themovement some years ago.
It's progressed.
You are now the Queen.
Queen Die.
(02:56):
Alright, let's get cracking.
I said earlier that I've beenprivy to some of the well one of
the decades of guts and RD andextraordinary outcomes that have
been happening out at thesepeople's farms.
And that yeah, having left thecountry for five minutes to come
back in the West Australians ofthe year.
So here we're going to talk abit about that.
(03:16):
It seemed to be an irresistibleopportunity.
Matthew had the idea, and yeah,I'm really looking forward to
it.
So let's talk a bit about whatit's like to be freshly minted
royalty and farmers and whatpossibilities might be opening
up on the back of that.
So to start, I'm wondering ifyou can just bring us into the
process, like how you find out,when you find out, and what it
(03:39):
feels like.
Di (03:41):
Yeah, I guess early on in the um space they let you know
that you've been nominated, andyou think, oh yeah, okay, well,
that's really lovely, but it'snot going to mean much at the
end of the day because you don'tthink, you know, oh yeah, okay,
well, there'll be lots and lotsof nominations.
Um, but then at that timeyou've actually got to agree to
um a pretty thorough analysis, Iguess, of your background to
(04:03):
make sure that you're legit.
And so we said, oh yeah, no, itall sounded like all good fun,
why not?
And then we became finalistsand we thought, oh yeah, well,
that's good fun.
Yeah, we'll go along with that,that'll be great fun.
And then when we got there onthe evening and they called our
name, I think we just about felloff our chair.
And um it's been reallyinteresting, but what's been
(04:24):
it's been a really rewarding andthe cliche being a privilege,
but the privilege has been inthe people that we've been able
to meet in that time, um,particularly the event in
Canberra, where they brought alot of the alumni of you know,
previous winners and so forth,and just to talk to them because
they're all people that justdon't give up.
(04:45):
They're people that just goagainst the odds and make a go
of stuff.
Um, so whether that be you knowin their own personal
endeavours or athletes or um,you know, just people that have
made significant change indifferent areas and actually sit
down and have your gone withthem and you think, yeah, okay.
And a lot of them have gone onand continued to do stuff and
(05:06):
made to realise that you can'thave any excuses, you've got to
grab the moment when thatwhenever things present itself
to you and do the best youpossibly can because a lot of
other people are trying to dothe same, but if you walk away
for an opportunity, you'rereally, you know, probably
letting yourself down plus otherpeople down at the same time.
AJ (05:26):
Geez, I take stock of that for uh because you don't see
those people uh every day, or oryou might not notice they're
those people every day, but uhbut well, they're everywhere.
Yeah.
Ian (05:38):
To me, it really um snuck up on me a fair bit.
Um because if I probably wouldhave thought about it, um just
thinking about it, I probablywouldn't have done it because I
would have thought, I'm afarmer, you know, you're gonna
have to make speeches, you'regonna have to do things, it's
not my comfort zone.
And I probably wouldn't havedone it, but anyway, so die just
happens to casually mention tome, and this is really early on,
(06:00):
oh, we've been nominated.
Oh yeah, totally forgot aboutit, you know.
And then down the line, and itwas a busy year because we did a
a Canadian speaking tour for anumber of weeks, and um a few
things led into that, and we'reover there and we're coming down
through somewhere in Canada,and Nicole Mars has rung up and
says, I'll swing by into umnorthern US and want to catch up
(06:24):
with you guys, just feelimportant that we catch up.
So we swung by and we actuallyjust spent a few days with
Nicole and her mum Michelle, andthose few days were just
vegging out.
We just hung out together anddid a lot of stuff.
It was really important time towhat's led into all of this
(06:45):
because we just did stuff andjust we actually a good friend
of hers had one of the originalboats that went right up into
the Yellowstone, and we actuallywent up there and just spent a
day floating down theYellowstone and just talking,
but we were actually connectingwith country, and um Nicole
brought a uh lady, a seniorshaman in, and we were talking
(07:06):
about lots of things and a lotof energy stuff there, and she
was saying that you know we weregetting the feeling, she was
home to getting things like bigthings, things are changing, big
things are going to happen.
So we just left it at that.
And um came back home, got backinto home, and we got a phone
call that um we had to go toCalifornia, Pasadena in
California, um, to a big textileexchange.
(07:29):
Things we'd we'd we'd beenlucky enough to win this award.
And I just said straight away,there's no bloody way I'm
hopping on an airplane againafter flying back 17 hours from
Vancouver.
And um, so um Matthew gotdedicated to go, and so did Beck
and Die, so they went off.
Anyway, so I I said I'm stayinghome, I'm gonna start harvest.
So I started harvest um withthe crew, and um Dye came back
(07:52):
when we came back, and Die said,Oh, you know, tomorrow night we
we've got to duck down to Perthfor this one, um, you know,
Australia of the year stuff.
And I said, Oh, really?
You know, cool.
Um, and totally disregarding itall to a degree, thinking,
honestly thinking, what chancesa farmer and a farmer from a
northeast wheat belt or WesternAustralia have got of getting,
you know, um West Australian ofthe year.
(08:15):
And um so dropped down there,got down there fairly late,
three o'clock in the afternoon,bang, chucked a suit on,
straight in.
And it wasn't until we walkedthrough the door into gates in
the government house I sat backand thought, holy crap, this is
pretty serious, you know, likeum, you know, all the pomp and
glamour.
I thought, wow, and then I waspulled aside and introduced to
(08:36):
the other contestants.
And one chap there, I justforget his name at the moment,
he was um he developedantibiotic resistance testing,
you know, so hugely importantprofessional person.
I'm just a farmer, you know, sopretty casual about it all.
This is going to be a lovelyevening, you know, watching all
these proceedings andfast-forwarded a bit, and our
(08:57):
names were read out by HisExcellency Governor Dawson, and
um just sat there shell-shocked.
Thought, really?
So we got up and doing themotions.
You we were walking up to thestage, and you probably looked
we were talking because Dianeall of a sudden said, I
certainly hope you're gonna saysomething.
And I said, I kind of mentionedthat, like, bloody hell, I hope
(09:19):
you're saying something.
She said, No way.
So we're having a bit of adebate as we're walking up
there, and um, yeah, the rest'shistory.
AJ (09:28):
Did you even have any notes?
No, like you totally thoughtthere was no show.
No show.
Wow, okay, so so then how haslife changed since?
Ian (09:39):
What's the year been like?
It's been a massive year.
It's um it's a real whirlwind,and um I think what the
Australian of the year peopleare very they they know their
stuff, and we were pulled asidein the early stage, and you
know, I basically said to them,I said, listen, I don't, you
know, are we really, you know,Australian of the year material?
(10:01):
And they said, Listen, we knowwho we're selecting, we know
what we're doing, you know, andand I think at the end of the
day, they were very correctbecause what it's actually
bought out in us personally, andwhat we can do is um has been
been just really thinking, andthat's been from the from them
(10:22):
and so the education thatthey've brought to us, but also
for the from the people, theimportance of what we're doing.
You know, we we were throughoutthe whole process, we've been
come to by the medicalprofessional, senior professors,
scientists, things like that,saying actually thank you for
what you do, you know, andthey're and what they're
(10:43):
explaining to us is because wetalk about the microbiome a lot
in what we do and in healthyfood, and they're saying we are
getting hit with a wall, atsunami of ill health coming to
us, and we're doing everythingwe can to bring cures, remedies,
prolonged life, everything wecan, and we're we're basically
(11:04):
fighting losing battle, and werealise that somewhere down the
line they're putting the linkswith now the microbiome talks
about and researches aboutsomeone down this other end has
to start to close the floodgatesof ill health, and then that
end of a session, everythingwill start to work.
So it was really importantbecause they're just saying
thank you, you know, for beingthere and doing that and and
(11:28):
representing that.
So, you know, that was a lot ofencouragement for us to say
that this is an important role,we've got to take this really
seriously, get out of a comfortzone and make the best of it.
And the other area was throughthe governor and the governor
general.
The governor general pulling usaside saying, I am so excited
(11:49):
for this, for this, we have todo not waste this opportunity.
It is such a crucial pivotingpoint in human history and
planetary health that we getthis message out there, the
support's there.
So um that was pretty importantto us.
Di (12:05):
I guess also from our own perspective, is um you know,
some of the work we started backin 2008 with Major General
Michael Jeffrey, um who actuallywas the inaugural uh soil
advocate for Australia, and hispassion was enormous, and he
used to, you know, we were hisrecruits, weren't we, to try and
talk to scientists and theDavos mob and you know, trying
(12:26):
to get some of that big end oftown interested in these things,
you know, food, water, health,social security at the end of
the day, um, you know, withpeople around the world being
pushed for food and water andsocial stability and things
going to shit, basically, iswhat he described, and saying if
we don't take this as anational issue, we're gonna get,
(12:48):
you know, in all sorts ofbother.
Being a military man, he knowswhat creates those situations.
So to have his, you know,passion that he had at the end
of his years, he he never gaveup till the end.
Um, and then for us to be ableto stand there with all that,
and then have a new GovernorGeneral expressing the same
(13:11):
thing.
She understood the work thathe'd been doing, and she says, I
really want to grab this too.
She said, I've got five years,and um, you know, let's do what
we can.
So it gives you a fair boot upthe backside.
I mean, Mike Jeffrey gave usone in the beginning, and then
you know, to say, well, listen,what is your excuse?
Get out there and do it.
And I guess that's whattriggered the idea of having the
(13:31):
Alliance for Human andPlanetary Health, but also
having the Nourished Perth eventand the farm tour, bringing
those researchers on farm whothey wouldn't normally get that
sort of opportunity.
Some of them said they hadn'teven ever been out into the
wildflowers, let alone beingonto a farm.
And so you think, well, thesethings have to happen somehow,
and then bringing it back to thecommunity with the nourished
(13:52):
Perth event, just to rem youknow, there's a lot of interest
in food origins now, um, gettingto know what good food can do
for you and preventative healthcare.
You know, the community'sstarting to look down those
lenses.
So we've got to provideopportunity, otherwise it's not
gonna happen.
AJ (14:10):
Fascinating that the you know you have a 300 people event
called Nourish with thecommunity and with you know the
suppliers that you've linkedwith, the bakers and the brewers
and stuff that are using thegrains and and creating these
new supply networks, what are wecalling them now?
Relationships supplyrelationships.
Yeah, not chains, and uh howbeautiful that is.
Connecting with you knowroyalty as it were, like with
(14:32):
those upper echelons of ofacademia through to politics and
so forth.
And I think back to yeah, yourinitial kick up the butt, which
you've spoken about before fromfrom Mike Jeffries, but then
that's 15 years ago, and it'sbeen struggle, right, between
then and now.
I mean, sure you see stuffcoming on, but it feels
different now.
(14:52):
And I guess being in the roleyou've got, where even that
government house event was 60people strong of the of the ilk
you're talking about, and thenyour event in Canberra and so
forth.
I'm wondering for you, howdifferent does it feel from you
know, you connect with thegovernor general and he's
creating a high-profile NGO, youmight think, well, we're on the
way, but there's been some hardyards, right?
(15:13):
So is it different now?
Di (15:15):
I still think there's a a long road ahead, but now there
is a lot of enthusiasm, hope,and support coming from the
community.
I mean, look look at thenourish event.
It became it was something funand and joyful, whereas so much
stuff in the media now is youknow, doom and gloom, and we're
you know, it's is a focus on illhealth and you know instability
(15:37):
and things, and it was just amoment in time to actually
capture the joy and say wereally can do this as people, as
a community.
We can make these choices andwork together to have it better
for all of us.
And yes, I think there isdefinitely that feeling of hope
and enthusiasm from thecommunity coming up front and
centre.
Ian (15:56):
General Jeffrey's kick up the bum was we were sitting down
there one day and we're havinga cup of tea, and he just said
to me out of blue, he said, youknow what, Ian, he said, you
know, the weakest man I haveever met is a man that's got a
knowledge that can make adifference but doesn't do
anything about it.
And he just left it that.
And after a while I thought,wow, that's a kick-up bum.
(16:18):
And so we've virtually justjust carried on there, you know,
really, really from that.
So what what we're aware ofnow, and that's why we bought
Nourish Perth in.
So what while we're we'relooking at the bigger issues
with the other end of town andand and here, we have to bring
(16:40):
it to the people.
We have to get the people, givethem every bit of exposure that
we can to what ripe food andthe hope that's out there.
So that was the idea of um youknow bringing bringing that in.
So um, you know, and that andthat's what you know we'll we'll
continue to do.
Di (16:57):
I was just gonna say, isn't it fantastic that flavour is a
key indicator of soil health andthings coming along?
Well, yes.
AJ (17:05):
Well, and again, you know, this is I was talking to Fred
Prevenza over in the States,obviously, and and he showed us
that how many decades ago?
Like it's not new.
So again, it's come fromresearchers who've been spotting
this trend but learning ofthese uh amazing ingredients of
(17:25):
health.
But to think that there mightbe a moment where it connects up
is pretty tantalising.
So the years played out sincein a pretty busy fashion,
obviously.
You you've taken on the mantleof creating these sort of
community events, you're doingthe formal events, uh, the
governor's coming out to thefarm with his wife, too,
meetings with high-profilepeople across finance, uh,
(17:46):
research and so forth.
How do you how do you do that?
I guess how do you manage ayear when you're still farming,
but but you feel like we've gotto seize the moment.
This is on us to do this rightnow.
How do you juggle that and andhow has it been?
Di (18:04):
There's a couple of things there.
One, having a great team aroundus, we have a great support
network on the farm, and beyondthat, they're family members.
Ian (18:13):
Um we've got a really good team, and um and probably
actually having to um where thestrength comes, you know,
because it's a sixty sixtythousand-acre farm, you know, it
um it doesn't run itself and ittakes a bit of doing.
And um just a team, you know,like um it it's um how can I put
(18:40):
that the strength that they'vebought together is um uh it's
been amazing.
Di (18:46):
I will say also um just the system itself, the farming
system itself, because theanimals have got it sorted.
We've we're keeping an eye onand making sure that that's you
know, nothing goes AWOL, butit's so much easier.
Um, yeah, when you've got avery healthy system, you're not
having to go and you know, dealwith diseases and all that kind
(19:07):
of thing.
It's um that's amazing to hearthat system.
AJ (19:11):
Keep going with this.
Di (19:11):
Yeah, so you can actually get a fair bit done just by
being there and you're nothaving to deal, you know, put
out bushfires all the time, Isuppose.
And that's uh what we're allaiming for at the end of the
day.
AJ (19:22):
This is what we hear about, isn't it?
The self-organising systems.
And in theory, again, decadesof work on it, but there it is.
Ian (19:29):
Yeah, because our whole team are in tune with the
environment and what's happeningon on prop on country, the
efficiencies are huge.
You know, whether it be Beckwith the sheep, Matthew with the
main operations of the croppingoperations.
We've got a Ragnar, an Estonianwhiz kid.
(19:50):
Um rags is just brilliant withmachinery.
He's under huge stress at themoment because I give him um I
give him two million dollarsworth of harvesters to put
$70,000 worth of parts in, andhe's in his happy zone.
But we've left him with threeKelpies, Bex Kangaroo, and a
cat, and he's under huge stress.
Um everyone plays their roleand gets out of their comfort
(20:14):
zone.
And just the lead up to theseevents, like nourish, the
governor's event, the farm tour,like to have three events in
one week, months and months inthe planning of doing, but you
know, like everyone steps likeMatthew.
We've got one of our roadtrains is on the road at the
moment, you know.
We're carting grain and doingthings for the farm.
So he's been knocking out alazy 4,000 K's a week in a road
(20:38):
train on the road, plus cominghome at night, organising all
these events at the same time.
So everyone's just foundanother level and another
strength, and that's connectionto country.
And they're all healthy anddoing really well, but
everyone's relying off everyone.
If it's not for that connectionto country, is what's driving
them for the better good.
AJ (21:00):
Yeah, I take stock of that.
I take stock of that for how weeach try and do that in our own
parts of the puzzle, but notalone.
It's come through a bit, hasn'tit, throughout this and
probably throughout the week?
Don't don't do it alone, havethe have the team, have the
family.
Yeah.
I'm wondering what signs thereare of people at higher levels
(21:20):
that can bring the backing,bring the policy shifts, uh, for
example.
Are they going next level?
So you're hearing a lot of talkand a lot of promise, you've
heard that for a lot of years.
Is there a sense of morecommitment coming from those
levels?
Di (21:37):
Finally, I think so, but I think that there is a huge chasm
of lack of understanding atsome of those ends.
Whilst they might know some ofit intellectually, they it
really makes a change when theycome on farm and they actually
feel it.
Um we have had some, you know,one of the Australians of the
year that we met put us incontact with some very high-end
(22:01):
high one of the big four banks,one of their top echelon.
And they actually committed andgot him to fly from Melbourne
to our farm and spend a wholeday out there with our local
bank manager and the state bankmanager, and they never get to
talk to that level of people upthe bank.
And he it just blew him away.
(22:23):
He, you know, they talk aboutall this stuff, and he was the
you know, risk manager and soforth, and to actually see what
it really meant at ground leveland what some of these farming
businesses can actually do fornot only their whole risk
profile, but what's the big endof town?
You know, there's a lot of umcorporate responsibility stuff,
(22:43):
you know, social responsibilitystuff coming into these
businesses now, and rightly so.
And how do they, you know, settheir business up to you know,
rec recognise that, I guess.
And so we're just showingthere's clearly, you know, with
people looking after the land,that are that's where they've
got to be putting theirinvestment into and their
(23:04):
support, because without us,none of that's really gonna
happen, and you know, things aregonna go to you know, crap in a
handbasket.
But um anyway, but yeah, thefact that they got people like
that flew them all the way out,and that was the only visit he
had was to come out to the farmand think, okay, we're getting
through.
And we have been talking to afew other ones at you know that
(23:26):
higher-end corporate level, andyeah, they've got fair big gaps
in the knowledge, but at leastthey're expressing some
interest, which wasn't reallyhappening before.
Ian (23:35):
Yeah, I hear you.
The magic thing about um theAustralian of the year process
is it's it it put and foragriculture, so this is one of
the first with agriculture, itputs you in an alumni of people
that have been in this position,Australians of the year, and
you know, young leaders andlocal heroes, in alumni with
(23:57):
them right the way back fromwhen it first started.
And and some of these peoplehave are very successful, you
know, they they've been there,they've done it.
So we've been able to link inwith them on that that that
common level and get doors openso we can actually get the doors
open to go with where we needto do to actually take these
(24:18):
take these subjects up, and andthey really need to be followed
up because it just hasn't beenwhile we do everything wonderful
here, but back there, you know,and if people say, Oh, you
know, it's the small foodmovement and the food movement,
that's great, but everything'shappening pretty good on there
and and can be better, but alsothe big multinational movement
(24:39):
needs to be spoken to becauseit's in the that middle escalons
of them that everything stalls,doesn't happen, and then all of
a sudden the easy way is we'vejust ticks two boxes through a
certification, and oh, that'sall happy, but it's really
achieving nothing.
So actually getting to them,which is what we've been doing,
and really call it calling itout to a degree, you know,
(25:03):
asking the question.
Not we we've got nothing tohide, not taking no for an
answer, not just being shovedaway, but just just pushing
through on that.
So it's um yeah, it's beenreally important and it's been
happening.
AJ (25:15):
Interesting.
Di (25:16):
Yeah, I think it's a case of yeah, having the strength and
guts to say people on the landhave got a lot of wisdom, a lot
of capability, and you need usmore than we need you.
And if if it isn't for thepeople on the ground, it's yeah,
we're not gonna have much of afuture.
AJ (25:32):
Yeah, it's been something that's coming through loud and
clear too, the the shift instory at that level of farmers
as peasants.
I mean, even just thedemonization of the word
peasant, but in other parts ofthe world that's not perceived
this way.
Just the stories we have behindthe people and and of course
the the way farmers have beenmarginalized, just in that way,
let alone the functional ways.
So, speaking of alumni, when Iwas asked to be a reference for
(25:54):
you guys and my you know, anhonour, I looked at who the
other ones winning across thecountry would be, the Victorian
of the year and so forth.
I thought, wow, imagine ifyou're Australians of the year,
geez, and then I was like, Oh,who's that?
What's that person done?
Yeah, all these incrediblepeople, some of which I hadn't
heard of before, and learningabout what they're doing, and
the same would have been true.
Hey, these guys wouldn't havebeen known across the country,
(26:16):
or by that former Australian ofthe year, I doubt.
And I saw the Victorian of theyear, Neil Danaher, and I
thought, they got no chance,he's a shoe-in, and he was, but
you met him, you met the Danaherfamily, and you had a really
interesting conversation.
I'm fascinated by this becausehis whole, I mean, what Neil's
achieved, it's justextraordinary, and everybody
(26:37):
knows about that.
The MND freeze campaign, thebeanies, and the millions and
millions they've risked they'veraised for research, but back
end after it's been had.
But you had a conversation withthem where they were really
interested in getting, as yousaid before, die preventative
front end.
Can you tell us about that?
Ian (26:55):
Yeah, no, it was interesting, you know.
So we got to know the Danaherfamily um pretty well, and um
and Neil, you know, and at thatstage he didn't have his new
talking machine, and um and youknow, he was really connecting
with us.
And um Jan and Beck and thefamily, you know, we were super.
And we're sitting on the busone day, you know, I was sitting
(27:16):
beside Jan, we're going to afunction, and we just started
talking, and she was asking thequestion after she'd heard us
talk a few times, and she askeda question about their farm
where where their originaloriginal family farm was.
And that farm happened to be inwhat's called is it MMD Alley
or MD Alley MMD Alley, thatfarm.
(27:37):
And and she said to me juststraight out, do you think, you
know, we she remembers therewhen they were young people that
you know there was a lot of lotof pesticides and herbicides
getting used.
And um she said, Do you thinkthat could have been a
contributing factor?
And of course, I don't know,but you know, as we all know, it
could be a very contributingfactor for things to come out of
(27:58):
the blue.
So what that's done is it'sjust got got them really,
really, really thinking.
Looking back in hindsight, itwas really interesting because
um, and we're just so glad forNeil to be to be getting that,
you know.
But but what an actually we areable to have conversations with
Neil.
We had conversations at Optusuh an event was on for Neil just
(28:18):
a while ago, and um just awonderful human being.
The strength that he's done andthe encouragement he gives
other people was just justamazing.
(29:37):
I'm so moved by that questionthat was put to you.
So MND alley, who's come acrossthat term?
Uh nobody.
Okay, yeah, Will.
So terms like cancer alley havebeen associated with the
Mississippi Basin, for example,because they've got these
concentrations of cancer and itImplicated the runoff, the
(30:01):
nutrient runoff is implicated.
And horrifyingly, we have founda similar pattern with MND that
there's a concentration of MNDin the riverina, which is where
their farm was, with these sortsof issues.
So it is raising the question,and blessedly, there are and a
couple of other sufferers whoare farmers from there who have
(30:23):
put themselves on the line too,with some researchers who are
going there.
And these are the sorts ofresearchers that you guys are
connecting with here now, too.
Have been there doing theirwork while you've been doing
your work, and now you're allconnecting across the country.
It's magnificent.
Alright, before we throw toeveryone else here and get a
broader conversation going, Idon't want to leave this stage
without the call that you putout at Government House, that
(30:47):
the practical call for whatyou're perceiving as almost a
well, at least A, if not thecritical leverage point
possibility.
Very doable, not much money,but it needs some.
And the backing hasn't beencoming, but maybe it will now.
Let's share it, huh?
Let's put in the ether a littlefurther with the um the food
hub idea.
Yeah, so um yeah, the government house do was was
(31:10):
absolutely amazing, and we'vewe've got to thank the governor
for making these thingsavailable.
You know, incredible people.
He actually took time out anddie.
And I had to go to we went toGovernment House heaps of times
just to sit down and have cupsof tea, talk about natural
intelligence farming and talkabout the food system, but they
(31:31):
had that big interest there.
And the governor general also,and then culminating with farm
visits and that, and culminatingin government house now using
whatever natural intelligenceproducts they can get in their
own kitchens.
So now the the breads and theflowers and that the flour and
that is all standard fare there.
(31:52):
So whenever having all eventsand they have have lots of
dining and meals and that, it istheir number one topic of
conversation about the food thatthey're eating.
So they're really walking towalk as well as talking to talk.
So, you know, that that eventthem getting behind that and
getting that knowledge was justhuge.
And and I suppose for us asfarmers, you know, which I'd
(32:14):
like to share with people, isyou can, when we think things a
bit hard, you can get out thereand do that.
You know, we've had to makespeeches, and that was probably
one of the bigger high-pressurespeeches we had to do because
the people we had in the room,from leading professors to
politicians to um First Nationspeople to to everyone
(32:39):
philanthropists,philanthropists, um, head high
court judges, everything there.
Um so we had to get a messageacross in a short period of
time.
And the governor said to us,and everyone was sitting in the
royal room, and we're walkingdown the hallway, and the
governor said to us, You've gotto make this happen.
This has to happen, you know,no pressure, but um, you know,
(33:02):
we've got to knock this out ofthe ground.
I was sitting there thinking,she's like, I'm not a public
speaker at all.
And um, I've got to introducethis and I've got to set this
up.
And one of the things we and II thought of a couple of ideas,
what to talk about that, justtwo rough ideas, and hopefully,
and and when you're in such ashort period of time, two words
(33:24):
put together can change thewhole focus of where it goes if
you don't get them right.
Every word has to got right, begot right, and you can't go
back over your truck tracks.
You have to deliveron-the-point speech and tick all
the boxes with these people.
And I was just walking downthis hallway thinking, holy
(33:44):
crap, um, you know, how I'mgonna do this.
So, what I actually drew on,and and I think that's where it
gets back to what Nicole was onto back there, but also what you
know Orl and Heidi have taughtus and the connection of
country, um, which we rely on,which gives us a lot of our
indications and actually how wework country on onto property.
(34:07):
I asked for help from the fromthe ancestors of from the old
people, people here being 65,000years.
This is important, put theright words in your mouth.
And we've done a few speechesnow, and every time it's been
pretty good.
They've done it that's right.
You know, it helps takes yourpressure off because you know
you're actually being lookedafter from somewhere else.
(34:27):
So, and it's just amazing howthat can fall into place and
work.
So, what I'm hinting to is inour whole farming and life
systems, if we integrate thistraditional knowledge, a lot of
this knowledge and a lot of theawareness what's out there, um
it can actually help you througha lot of things.
Right on then.
Di (34:48):
I think they um yeah, what the question you were looking at
with the food hub side of thething is um you were hoping to
try and bring you know a centreclose to the city, or ideally it
would be a place that could bean educational place as well,
but where we could bring youknow more produce.
I mean we've got we'refortunate to have some
relationships at the moment withbakeries and breweries that are
(35:10):
you know creating thosewonderful products for people to
consume.
But we want to broaden thatnet.
We need to look at you know,Jeff and Michelle, who were just
speaking in the tent in theprevious sessions, and you know,
making it more possible forpeople like that to have their
food you know together so thatother people can come in and
there can be more of a one-stopshop to get access to more of
(35:31):
this kind of stuff.
Um, because that is some of theyou know, there's too big a
cost and up, you know, loss ofopportunity for people trying to
do it on their own, at leastlike you're saying before.
I mean, how does everyone getthese opportunities together?
You can't do it all on yourown, it's just such a big cost,
and as as Jeff was saying a lot.
So we want to try and bringthat to make that a real
(35:52):
possibility so that people inthe city can have you know
better choices and moreavailability as a starting
point.
AJ (36:00):
And the farmers can have better choices too.
I like the fact that your graineven just goes into the general
CBH stock and is lost for therecognition.
So it's not through thosechannels you get you've
established locally, but thatcomes with the power of work.
But so to generate thosesystems, I mean you've even said
Ian that to expect to work evenwork out more farmers farming
(36:22):
in this sort of a way is a bitcar before horse now.
Now we need the systems thatmake it possible to enable them
to operate in this way withwithout being so borderline
struggle, and you know, Jefftalked about that today too, I'm
sure I wasn't over there, butthat's that's been the lot, and
he's now doing his owndeliveries to Perth Metro.
I mean, for example.
So it's an exciting piece ofthe thing to think that
(36:45):
something as simple as a pieceof infrastructure at City's Edge
could be that for more farmers,and and you guys for a start,
and then others, and that uhit's a place for people like us
who can't get the three hours tothe farm and you couldn't
handle them all anyway, but toget there for produce but also
education and contact,relationship, supply
(37:06):
relationships you were saying,including I'm weaving back to
you, Ian, with the the FirstNations thing, hey, to connect
on that.
So your connections on farmthrough to connecting in this in
this thing.
So it's something you havepitched for a a bunch of years
to people, but they haven't,like the land you mentioned
earlier, they haven't jumped atit.
Di (37:24):
And I guess that will like Ian was saying, that um
Opportunity Government House, wedid get approached by an
ex-politician who uh has said,you know, the idea of co-ops and
that some of the um backgroundinformation around that is
making it a lot more achievableand really pushing us to now go
and do something in that space.
So we're just gonna have to geta bit creative.
(37:45):
Um, they've offered a bit moresupport for us to try and really
make it happen because they'reseeing that need because there
is a huge loss ofinfrastructure.
It all has got you know the bigend of towns taking control,
um, not offering opportunity forany smaller producers.
It's all you know gone to thewayside.
As Jeff Powell says, there wasyou know 50 or 60 um small-time
(38:07):
abattoirs only you know 40 or 50years ago, and now there's you
can barely get a contract killanywhere.
So, you know, all those thingsthat have been taken away from
us as a population to havediversity, that local um
opportunity, uh is yeah, we'vegot to resurrect that, but it's
gonna take some funding andsupport to get there because you
can't expect individual farmersto be doing that.
(38:28):
But we've got to, if you know,there is some access through
some government supportmechanisms, but uh keeping on
talking to the big end of townas well because you know some of
them have got a conscious andheart too, and um they'd like to
see some changes, so we've justgot to keep at it.
AJ (38:42):
And there's that big policy shift in Victoria, hey, just in
the last month or so, I think.
Yeah, where um the regulationsshifted, so there's ways to do
that too, to to get it open upwhere microabits now can be can
be done liberally and what thatcould unleash.
Ian (38:56):
I think that's the part of this, what Dia's talked about
launching of this planetaryhealth alliance.
It's not just talking about theresearchers talking about how
the health systems of thehealthy food works, but it's
talking right the way back ofactually how do we get the food
to the people in its integrity.
And um what we've been afterprove for what we do and what
(39:16):
Matthew's done, you know, evenwith the beer, for example, it
is not hard to double farm gateprice.
So if you went to all farmersout there and said, well, you
know, we can easily double farmgate price, they'd be in like in
a blink, um, and not actuallyincrease the cost to the to the
customer by by next to much all.
And that's what we've got toachieve.
We've got to uh achieveaffordable, good quality food to
(39:40):
the customer that's um and theand the producer actually ends
up getting more than what a lotmore than what they're getting
now, and that's achievablebecause of what we've been able
to prove that's just all gettinggobbled up at the moment by
that middleman.
So that's a part of theseconversations that we're opening
up, so we've got to do thesethings.
AJ (39:58):
Oh, and you talk about food security and access and so
forth.
The the conundrum's always beensure, great if a farmer can get
a premium, but not many peoplewill be able to access it.
The vast majority of peoplewon't be able to access it.
So to solve that conundrum,actually get a way to yeah,
double the price at the gate,but not change it outside the
gate.
Ian (40:16):
I explained a um a scenario, and this was back in
grounded in December, and I'ddone some numbers, I did some
numbers really quickly, and thatyear, what was it, what are we
in now, 25, 2024.
The amount of grain that wedelivered into the conventional
market, so just went into thebulk market, that grain which
(40:37):
gets sold as a commodity.
So we're selling our grainthese days as in that bulk
market as a commodity, exactlythe same as we're selling iron
ore.
So our food is treated exactlythe same as we treat iron ore.
And I did the figures and theamount of grain, so X amount
goes off to the small artisanalbakeries and things like that,
which is which is reallyfantastic.
(40:59):
But we delivered another, Idon't know, how much was it,
Matthew, into the dimension what16,000 metric tons we delivered
into that into that market.
I quickly did the figures.
If we were to put that throughan industrial mill, um steel
mill, milled at temperature,totally destroying the quality
(41:20):
of that grain at a 75%conversion rate, which is
roughly what they get.
Then baked into the lowestquality, high-processed Wonder
White loaf of bread, sold atWoolworths or somewhere for, I
don't know, I've never bought aloaf of bread, but maybe four or
five dollars.
That grain that we deliveredwas worth $95 million, that
(41:42):
grain in loaves of bread.
We received under four.
So you can't say there's a $91million change in there
somewhere.
So you can't say that there'snot room in our food production
process to give more back to theenvironment.
AJ (42:00):
Dear me.
All right.
Open of the floor.
Who wants to contribute?
Let I'm is there somebody whocan run for me?
Tegan, do you want to do a mic?
Would ya?
Thanks.
Questioner (42:10):
Thank you.
What a wonderful story.
How do uh we support whatyou're doing?
How do we get involved?
Good question.
AJ (42:21):
Um opens the alliance, Di?
Like what's gonna happen withthat?
Di (42:25):
It might be a good Yeah, I guess um we we're just gonna
start off for those that haveexpressed interest, or yeah, if
anyone wants to express furtherinterest in that, are flying by
the seat of our pants at themoment because I've never ever
done anything like this.
Um, but there is a few kindpeople who put their hand up to
help guide us.
Um but yeah, I think havingmore conversations of what your
(42:48):
capacity is, what you'rethinking, um, yeah, just having
a conversation, I think.
Questioner (42:54):
Sorry, I'm asking specifically because we have uh
young family friends who createdthe Natural Farming Alliance.
It's a much smaller grassrootsmodel that's doing exactly that
you you're talking big big agsize.
So that's the other end of thespectrum, and I'd love you to
have a conversation.
Ian (43:15):
So we're really really lucky with this because the
Forest Research Foundation cameon board, so that's their big
setup there in Netherlands thatthey've at um Twee's pumped
heaps of heaps of money into andthey're actually doing a lot of
wonderful stuff about bringingyou know students in from all
over the globe and supportingthem to do research.
So part of that in the firstinitial meetings will be
(43:38):
building a structure.
So how that exact question, howcan everyone support?
So while you have people doingresearch and doing all of that,
how everyone we're gonna try andwork that out how we can bring
everyone as a bang as acommunity-led support as well,
and and all differentorganisations to bring it
together so we can work incollaboration and get those
(43:58):
results.
Spread the word.
AJ (44:01):
Yeah, that's it.
I'm hearing there's an informthere's a formal side sort of
brewing and able to connect withother semi-formal or formal
aspects, but there's aninformal, as you said, die, the
conversation sort of almostfirst to just connect and and
see what might thousand flowersblooming type stuff.
And of course, then there'salways the just back in these
supply relationships when youfind them, huh?
(44:22):
Like the people who are sellingfood here and the millers and
bakers of the world that you'vebeen supplying to, and now
little creatures and thecanfield brewing down there.
Ian (44:29):
Well, probably our thing as a business like our farms
prospect pastural company is to,apart from doing all of this
work that's happening on, isactually to set the example.
So what we've done, and thereason why, one of the good
reasons why we've got scale iswe can develop markets.
So our wool, for example, youknow, we grow enough wool to
(44:50):
fill complete containers, andwe've been able to get send that
overseas, get that processed inits own entirety, you know, and
it goes in through Italy, andthen actually work on that story
with the brand.
So now all that wool goes tothe likes of Stella McCartney
and the top fashion labels andgo, we see it on the catwalk.
Because we've been able todirectly link the production
(45:12):
method and the story with thatand have the entirety of
produce.
If we would have had to bringin half a dozen other farmers,
that would have all gotshattered a bit and in the story
and how it's all gone.
So that market's there andgetting developed.
Now we as we go along, we'llopen that market up to the right
farmers to actually join in onthat.
And the same thing is whatwe'll do with the the grain.
(45:33):
You know, if we have to go andbuild a $30 million grain mill,
that's what we've and you know,hopefully we don't have to do it
all ourselves.
But if that's what's required,if that if we have to do those
things and set the markets up,we've got the grain there.
So the biggest issue is I'vegot we've got uh a person we
deal with in the United Statesthat actually set up a grain
mill, and um, you know, they Ithink it's only a 12,000 tonne a
(45:55):
year mill and paid for it inthree years, but his big biggest
thing was he's got a half adozen or a dozen farmers that
have to supply the grain, andthat's his hardest part.
So we've actually got the grainnow to set the mill, which will
make the mill actually goquicker, and then we can open it
up to other farmers.
So that's what we're trying todo as Prospect Partial, so
blazed away in some of themarkets.
(46:17):
So um when we can introduce itto other farmers.
Questioner (46:20):
That's the proof of concept.
I keep bobbing up and downbecause I can't see I can't see
you.
My question about the food hub,well, first of all, brilliant
idea.
It's got to happen.
It's just got to happen.
Um I've we know because we takefood tours around Australia
connecting consumers with umwith producers to to tell them
(46:41):
where their food is coming from.
The the conversations thatwe're having today are not
getting through to theconsumers.
So that's like where Anthonyand I sit is like that conduit
to the consumer.
Um for us as well, food isexceptionally important.
I've been in food all my life.
Um Anthony's an ex-farmer.
And so to have somewhere to goin the city to buy food Monday
(47:05):
through to Sunday massive,massive thing.
And well, you know, we talk tofarmers all the time, and we've
had a lot of very sadconversations with farmers very
recently with all the wetweather that we've had.
They have got so much food thatthey need to get to the markets
on Saturday and Sunday, but themarkets are closed because of
(47:27):
the rain.
So what do they do?
And it's just been the mosthorrendous situation.
So it's got to be somethingmore than the farmers' markets
are brilliant.
But not everyone can go on aSaturday and Sunday, and if it
rains, everyone gets wet.
So I think the food hub is justso exciting.
Di (47:43):
Absolutely brilliant.
And I think that's the thingtoo, because for some farmers
it's accessible to take theirproduce to a farmer's market,
but for some like us, it justisn't going to work.
Um, and so to have yeah, itavailable all week, like you're
saying, is yeah, reallynecessary.
Questioner (48:00):
And the other thing is like Miller and Baker,
fantastic.
We know Mark take people roundhis bakery and and we talk about
your grain and everything.
For me, I make bread at homeall the time, sourdough bread
every week, but I can't get yourflour and unless I go to Miller
and Baker.
So, you know, that's anotherthing for me.
I don't want to make bread withanyone else's flour now because
(48:21):
I know so much more about it.
I've been educated.
So, yeah, we need your flourelsewhere.
Ian (48:27):
Yeah, we have to make it all accessible.
You know, Miller and Baker do awonderful job, but the biggest
complaint I have go there, youknow, people sitting there and
they're 20 deep in the line andthey haven't got time, so we
have to make that moreaccessible.
And and what so we've got wildbakery now, so that that's
really good.
But even more than that, again,we have to make that accessible
to everyone.
AJ (48:48):
Bears mentioning that that's a hell of a success story, too,
isn't it?
Like it it's instructive in theway you've described, but they
too were borderline.
Can we make it through?
All the same stuff at that partof the supplier relationship,
and uh and blessedly they'remaking it through.
And uh not uh it's such hardyakker and such, you know,
bearing some risk, again blazinga trail, but um so amazing
(49:11):
success story that they shouldbe 20 D.
But yeah, let it breed, let itspread.
Ian (49:16):
Great example to follow, though.
Barry Green (49:17):
Right on, yeah.
As always, fantastic listeningto you both.
I was involved in the formationof the organic meat co-op in
about 2007.
Sadly, that no longer exists asa co-op.
This whole problem of uhabattoir access, and and this
problem's been created bygovernment.
As Jeff was saying, you know,people weren't getting sick from
the small abattoirs, but thisis something that's come from
(49:39):
further up.
That this this idea ofstandards, uh, it's so often it
seems to be uh you know, there'sno reason for it, it's just
policy.
So the the the politiciansthey've created this mess, so we
you know we've got to work withthem to change that.
And I think that the the thingsyou're talking about, the the
fundamental problem we have isthat we've got a food system
(50:01):
based on down, down on price,and yet we subsidise the
sickness industry.
So, from a government point ofview, they've got to reverse
that because it's sending thembroke.
So we've got to present aneconomic argument to government.
You've got to take an interestin the quality of the food so
you don't have to spend so muchon the sickness industry.
Want to comment on it?
AJ (50:20):
And the drought relief, etc., etc.
Flood recovery.
Ian (50:24):
So some of the examples we'll probably put in through
the alliance as well.
And I don't know, I hear frompeople they they go to hospital,
and um, hospitals are uh areare meant to cure people and fix
people up, so they go and havewhatever they have done, and why
they're laying in bed for thenext two days, they generally
eat the most uh unhealthiestfood they can get, you know,
when we're meant to berecovering.
(50:46):
And you're sitting therethinking, really?
This is our hospital.
So, one of my aims in part ofthis as alliance is say, let's
just take one of these hospitalsto start off with and make sure
that when people are in therethey're eating the best possible
food that this state cansupply, you know.
Start those examples happeningto um to take that through.
(51:07):
And Fiona Stanley was present,wasn't she, at Government House?
Di (51:11):
Was she there?
She ended up not being able tomake the evening because one of
her children or grandchildren,sorry, was unwell and she was in
Melbourne with her.
But um yeah, Fiona Wood wasthere.
AJ (51:21):
And Fiona Wood was there.
Yeah, so these people againstretching into the health
industry like that, yeah.
That's again, it's gotta beit's gotta be done, but it's got
to be possible too now, itwould seem.
Yeah.
Could we get a mic down here,Tegan?
Thank you.
Questioner (51:34):
I'm sort of curious, because you're growing grain,
that's great.
You're growing wheat and wool,that's great.
What about the rest of yourfood?
Who grows that?
Di (51:42):
As in that we supply the market or on farm food.
Questioner (51:44):
No, everything you eat.
Who grows that?
Di (51:47):
Um, well, we've got a veggie patch, fortunately, Beck, who's
out the back there, um, she'sgot a good veggie patch.
Um, yeah, that's primarily whatwe do.
So we had our own lamb and ourown uh bread, which we buy from
Miller and Baker in Bolt when wego down to Perth and buy the
flour and so forth.
But yeah, that is part of ourdream too, to have more on farm,
(52:08):
virtually growing a lot morediversity, and that's part of
that community building on farmas well.
We're having people that canthat's their passion to do that.
We want to have a big externalkitchen, I suppose, that the
whole farming community can cometogether and share at least one
meal a day, and then because wedo have people that come in and
want to be part of the farm andexperience it as well, and they
(52:28):
could eat with the crew um anyday of the week.
So, yeah, that is part of thelonger term plan to grow more
and more on farm.
AJ (52:35):
People running chooks, bees, whatever.
Di (52:37):
Yeah, our eldest son's in the process of setting up his
first chook wagon, so gettingthere, but it you know what it's
like.
Questioner (52:44):
Lovely to listen to you and hear hear of your
experience.
Um just interested in your talkabout the health and the food.
Having experienced that as ahealth professional working in a
hospital and also as arecipient of health care
recently, um I used to gothrough the chef's pantry and
look at all the cans of food.
And they're all imported.
(53:06):
And we're not like we're notsupporting our um Golden Valley
fruit that's all being pulledout.
Well, not maybe not all of it'sgone, but a lot of it's gone.
And you go to the supermarketand it's from China or South
Africa or somewhere else.
And we should be supporting ourown farmers, even if it costs a
(53:27):
few dollars more.
Di (53:29):
Well, that's the thing when it comes down to food
sovereignty and food security,and I mean we have an incredible
nation here with suchbiodiverse landscapes and it
what it can produce, thediversity of foodstuffs and so
forth, and we've really, youknow, disregarded that for a
long period of time to our owndetriment.
Um, but I think you know, wecan't give up hope, and we've
(53:50):
that's the focus going forward,isn't it, to reinvigorate that
and focus more at a local level,um, getting that that trusted
quality food with integrity ontoour table so that we can at
least um trigger better healthuh at a local level and from you
know beyond there as we go.
AJ (54:08):
And no one's turning down the good stuff when they can get
access to it.
So it sort of comes back towhat we've been talking about.
Yeah, Will, have your mic inyour head?
Will Bignell (54:16):
Yeah, yep.
So um look, I I commend what'sgoing on, it's great to
evaluate.
I've I've been doing that ourwhole lifetime with our family
farm, selling grain into bakersand whatnot, but lion's share
goes into dairy cows to makemilk, it is good butter.
But um I suppose it a commentto feed into those questions,
the hollowing out of thesupermarket.
The supermarket's adistribution channel, right?
(54:38):
It's a mirror of what we eat aspeople.
We'll say we'll do one thingbefore we go in, but we do
another thing when our hippocket burns.
Uh, if you compare the cart towhat we say we're going to buy
when we go out, it's it's twodifferent things, it's diapost.
So that's a value propositionthat we as consumers, it's a
message we need to convey andhold supermarkets and build our
brands to account to buy theseproducts.
Because in some ways I shudderwhen you say you've got to
(55:01):
double the money.
That there's a cost to do allthis for the marketing and to
scale and to grow.
Um, but getting thesebusinesses that are established
that have these products andgetting them to understand that
value proposition of healthyfood and this is what we need is
so hard.
Um, do you guys feel that youcan still keep you can scale
this to get this the you know,to get the B double hauling good
baker's grain straight downinto a into a you know, the
(55:24):
wonder white is now not fairybread, it's it is wonder white.
Do you reckon you can scale it?
Like I I I desperately want tosee it.
It burnt me up, but I Idesperately want to see it.
Do you feel you can keepscaling and growing and doing
the part trajectory you've hadgoing down this path?
Di (55:40):
I think there just seems to be more people wanting to come
on board and be part of that andtry and make that achievable.
Um and certainly like Anne wastalking about that the grain
mill idea.
Um there is some really goodstuff happening around the world
to make these things possibleand we've just got to stick at
it and yeah, working very muchat a local level, but if it
(56:01):
becomes that we can actuallyproduce more, you know, West
Australia and Australia is afood export nation, but yet
we're eating poorly ourselves,we're not even accessing it, you
know, at a local level.
So um yeah, I think there is alot more hope there than I would
have said five years ago.
Ian (56:19):
Yeah, I I definitely think we can scale it, and um and we
have to scale it because umwhat's the other alternative?
You know, it's um we've got nochoice but not to scale it and
keep working it hard, and youknow, we haven't got all the
answers.
Hopefully, Haggerty familydon't have to keep pushing away,
and it's about collaboration,so we open it up to everyone
(56:40):
that wants to come on board andsay, hey, help us scale it, you
know, in every facet becausewe've got no other options.
We have to scale it, we have tomake it work, we have to get
the food through and itsintegrity, and um, and we've
been lucky enough to have a lotof doors open and go around the
world and say there definitelyis things, examples in place
that we can follow and tap onto.
(57:01):
And and I think the way theworld's going at the moment with
the shakeup around the world,there is a little bit more focus
to say we've been pretty lazyjust buying everything in and
sending the up the raw materialsoffshore.
I think now, hello, you know,we're gonna wake up a little bit
and think we have to do somethings at home, you know.
(57:21):
Maybe we have to even try andget the ability to put a
beetroot in an aluminium can inAustralia, which we can't seem
to do.
AJ (57:28):
So we've come into time, let's call it there.
Would you please give a massivehand to Di and Ian Haggerty?
Thank you again to Matthew,Sadie, Ollie, Georgie, Nadia,
Tegan, Mitchell, and the wholeteam at Grounded for generously
(57:48):
providing that recording and thewhole setup from which it
sprung.
And of course, thanks to yousubscribing listeners for making
the episode possible.
This week, special thanks toDana Scott over in Baltimore for
doubling your Patreonsubscription.
You might remember Dana fromthe Chaco Canyon episodes 264
and 5.
And thanks to Tanya Massy,Nadine Hollamby, Kristy Bryden,
(58:12):
Mark Kowald, Dave Godden, andChris Diehl, also over in New
Mexico.
Thanks so very much fornotching up your fourth
anniversary of support.
I'm so grateful.
If you'd like to join us, bepart of this great community,
get some exclusive stuff andhelp keep the show going, please
do by just heading to thewebsite or the show notes and
following those prompts.
(58:33):
A reminder that Grounded 2026will be heading to the Otways of
Victoria in April, after ourAutumn Equinox course on the
Murray River, and the Groundedpodcast will also launch soon
with all the recordings to date.
And you can find a few morephotos from today's panel
conversation on TheRegenNarration website.
(58:53):
The music you're hearing isRegeneration by Amelia Bardin.
My name's Anthony James.
Thanks for listening.
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