Receiving Thunder (Part 1 with Kim Paul): Reclaiming land, health & culture

Last week's episode featured a special on-location recording with Amskapi Piikani Blackfeet elder, and founder of the Piikani Lodge Health Institute, Long Time Charging Woman Kim Paul. Again, given it was two and a half hours in length, I also wanted to offer it in distinct parts, for those of you who prefer to listen to it that way. 

In this case, two parts presented themselves neatly. In fact, when producing the full episode, I had to stop after an hour and a bit to absorb all that had been shared to that point, especially the last 15 minutes of gripping story there (from which the title to part one here is drawn).

So, part one here extends from my intro (with music Into Thin Air by Hans Johnson), through to that story. Including breaking news of their latest reacquired land and the big vision unfolding there, the extraordinary regenerative agriculture resurgence across the Nation (including the return of the buffalo), broader food sovereignty and enterprise moves, compelling traditional diet research, Kim’s personal stories of her tribal naming and mysterious encounters, a bigger lens to bring to the troubles of today, and of course along the way, we were treated to the spectacular vistas and stories of this breathtaking part of the world in current day northern Montana.

If you’d prefer to listen to the whole episode straight, head to ‘Culture as Medicine: Long Time Charging Woman Kim Paul at Amskapi Piikani Blackfeet Nation’.

Otherwise, I hope you enjoy this, and stay tuned in a few days for part two.

Chapter markers & transcript.

Recorded 10 July 2025.

Title image: Kim sharing the gripping story towards the end of part one that gives it its title (pic: Olivia Cheng). (Yes, this was all so impromptu, the phone was the unintended recorder - though I did have my wireless lapel mic's to plug in when outside in the wind thankfully.)

See more photos on the full episode web page, and for more behind the scenes, become a supporting listener below.

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Episode Transcript

AJ (00:00):
Yeah, for all the things that aren't changing, huh?
These things feel like bigshifts.
Yeah.

Kim (00:06):
They are.
Yeah.
There are so many big shiftshappening, which is what I was
referring to early, that earlierthat dichotomy of there's still
this evil happening.
You know, the killing of ourchildren and our youth without
any recompense.
But but there are these bigshifts where this is not going
to be uh happening much longer.

(00:27):
And I think that's the hugefear.

AJ (00:30):
G'day, Anthony James here for The RegenNarration, your
ad-free, freely available,listener-supported podcast,
exploring how people areregenerating the systems and
stories we live by.
Today, an extremely specialepisode.
After we left the Wind RiverTribal Buffalo Initiative in
current-day Wyoming, but beforewe reached Paul Hawken back in

(00:52):
California, there was one morestop we had to make.
Or so we thought.
For having made it to the oldsalt festival that we podcast
about back in Montana last year,we met a special guest speaker
there, Miisami Sapai yi Aki.
I hope I pronounced that right.
Long Time Charging Woman, KimPaul, an elder of Amskapi

(01:15):
Piikani Blackfeet Nation.
Kim is founder and executivedirector of the Piikani Lodge
Health Institute.
I already knew about some ofits brilliant work, having read
Liz Carlisle's profound book,Healing Grounds, Climate,
Justice, and the Deep Roots ofRegenerative Farming.

(01:36):
That was thanks to a tip from alistener.
Cheers, Ronnie.
And then I'd seen theimpressive Latrice Tatsey, who
featured in Liz's book, presentat the Regenerate Conference in
Denver last November, which wasalso where the extraordinary
documentary film Bring Them Homeon the Blackfeet Buffalo
Restoration was screened.
Those resurgent Blackfeetstories had felt like they were

(01:59):
constant accompaniment on ourjourney, so I'd lightly wondered
if we might end up visitingthem in their spectacular
country in the far north ofMontana, historically and
essentially still includingcurrent-day Glacier National
Park.
Alas, it looked like it wasn'tgonna happen.
But then, Kim, this high schooldropout, now with multiple

(02:21):
degrees, who carries SeeyehKsisk Staki Creation Bundle and
Pipes, again, I hope I did okayon the pronunciation, and was
transferred the rights to wearthe traditional stand-up war
bonnet.
We met after her presentationat the festival, and she warmly
invited us to visit as theyapproached their powwow in July.

(02:43):
Right now then, we're in thecar with Kim's grandson Traeson
and my family along for the rideas Kim guides us through some
of her wonderful country andculture.
Starting at the nation's latestreacquired lands, where Piikani
Lodge has a big dreamunfolding.
Later, we're into Glacier.

(03:04):
So climb aboard.
Here's Kim.

Kim (03:07):
So in this beautiful area, we have the five acres here to
the east, which will be the wedon't have a name for it yet,
but where we come together.
In our language, everything isvery descriptive.
This is the place where we cometogether would be the name of
it, kind of like that.

AJ (03:23):
And in language, what would it actually call it?

Kim (03:25):
I don't know how to say it all.
Yeah, so between thegenerations of boarding school,
um, we have three generations inmy family.
The language was um, you know,you were you were beaten, you
were hit with ruler, you wereyou couldn't speak the language.
Even when my grandmother cameand had her little ladies that

(03:45):
visited from, you know, themission, spent time in the
mission from the time she wassix to sixteen, breaking all the
ties to family in the land.
And, you know, just down theroad, you were never allowed to
go home, even if your motherdied, or anyway, um, they were
very severely punished if theyspoke any blackfeet.
And so um when she got out, shewould go in the bedroom, and if

(04:07):
we uh the granddaughters had tobring her tea, her and her uh
friends would even still bespeaking blackfeet behind their
hands.
And they they felt they wereprotecting us, I think, by not
teaching us the language.
So But we're learning,learning, learning.
Um, I've even still taken twoyears of language, and I can't
speak that sentence, the placewhere we gather.

(04:28):
But there will be a commercialkitchen on the bottom for
everyone to do uh small, likethey call it cottage business,
but it's a business incubator,right?
For people to come and make umour traditional teas, our
traditional medicines, our um uhSavasbury or choke cherry, our
jams and jellies and syrups, andthen we'll promote, um, you

(04:48):
know, teach basic businessprinciples uh to folks that want
to do that, and we will do thepushing, the marketing into the
park because with you know,upwards of four million visitors
a year, um, they're notsupporting our community and our
people, even though they're onour land, which is now called
Glacier National Park, um, inany way, shape, or form.

(05:09):
They're beginning to um thelast superintendent was very uh
well um ensconced in our our umum way of life and ceremony and
and wanted to be a part of that,but he recently retired, and
we're making really greatstrides with him, and so now
there's a new superintendent ofthe park who we um hope to help

(05:30):
him understand the importance ofum you know hope and
empowerment um and the inclusionof the people of this land
within that landscape as well,because for 20,000 years that
was you know, and I hate sayingour because we weren't our type
of people, we were collectiveand self and you know,

(05:52):
sufficient or sustainable andyou know, um more we're more
concerned of uh the wellness ofthe collective as opposed to
individuals.
But anyway, well so this willbe the training center here, and
then if you can envision as wego through the gate on this side
and this side, Metal Lodgesteepees, um, where it would be
like the welcome as you comethrough, welcome into this

(06:15):
reclaimed um Scopi Bikanihomeland.
Um we're going to have awalking path which will or
running, whatever you choose.
Grandma will walk, the kids canrun, but it'll it'll be about
five miles long, and uh we've umuh been blessed to be a part of
the walking path that wascreated at uh Blackfeet

(06:37):
Community College, our localtribal community college.
And so we've had um uh goodexperience um on how to be proud
of our history and and learnmore.
And so there'll be a walkingpath that goes the whole
perimeter of this.
So this 628 acres and then fiveacres here.
It's just a clean landscape,it's um such an intact biosystem

(07:00):
with so many the the plantdiversity.
And we had Audubon come out anddo a bird survey here a few
weeks ago, and the the yeah,there's just so much here that's
been protected and not umoverrun, but uh mainly because
it was inherited land by thepeople who basically were kind
of carpet baggers, and um wewould get our groceries from in

(07:24):
trade for our land.
So to give this land back isvery important to us.
It's a coup.
We call it a coup.

AJ (07:32):
You were just having you you said it old salt, you just had
the ceremony for it a few daysprior to the festival.
So it's very recent.

Kim (07:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So we had uh a beautifulblessing of the land and the
work of our hands and thestewardship and the good works
that will come out, you know,just asking um uh creator, one
of our uh elders in the creationbundle, the beaver bundle, came
down and um and smoked pipe andjust you know did the prayers

(08:00):
of of everyone's prayers thatwas in attendance uh for what
will take place on this land andwith the land and for it to be
open to community and we havethis vision of folks who have
been fractionated off of theirland because the government back
um in the day of making well itstill is the same, making laws

(08:21):
that controlled us as far awayas the moon in a place called
Washington DC in a language thatwe didn't understand, so it's
kind of the same thing, but nowwe speak English.
Um, anyway, they created thisuh systematic way to take more
land, take more land, take moreland.
Beyond the Homestead Act camethe Dawes Act, and it was um the

(08:42):
ability to uh we were roundedup before that with um an
ability to hunt for our childrenand feed our families, and
there was a huge starvationwinner where you know, by their
count, 200 um expired.
By our count, you know, closeto 900 people starved to death
in a valley watching the elkwalk by and the moose and the

(09:06):
deer knowing what was out thereand and still starving to death.
So, anyway, with theseallotments um came the
fractionation of our land andthen their ability to only um
create this reservation systemthat you know only encompassed
this small amount of land wherethe Blackfeet, the Blackfoot

(09:27):
Confederacy, ranged from theNorth Saskatchewan River to the
Yellowstone, and um by thefinding of a young child down by
Helena by an archaeologyprofessor named Anzik, so they
named him the Anzik Child.
He's carbon dated at 13,400 to13,800 years old, and he's

(09:50):
wrapped with um his hisbelongings like his rattle, his
little hand drum, uh theiniscum, which is a buffalo
stone, and is used in ourceremonies and is a huge part of
our life, but they were stillpainted with red holy paint.
So we know we've been on youknow this landscape for close to
20,000 years by otherarchaeological finds, but you

(10:13):
know, beyond beyond um whatWestern science says our oral
traditions uh date us back tothe time of the dinosaurs and to
the um the time of the thebigger bigger giants in the
megaphona.
Yeah, so we've been here for along time.
So it's so nice to have thislittle piece back, and for

(10:35):
people who've been fractionatedoff of those um small allotments
that were given, air quotes,given to us.
Um you know, if a family offour or five had 180 acres, and
then those three children hadfour or five children, then it's
divided again, you know, by byanother um four or five

(10:57):
fractionate, then they havechildren, and then all of a
sudden the small piece of landis fractionated into 30, 40, 50.
Like, you know, when uncle justpassed away recently having 47
grandchildren and 92 or 94great-grandchildren, like you
can imagine the fractionationthat happens very rapidly.
And so um, there are a lot ofpeople who live in town who've

(11:19):
been fractionated off of theirland and don't have the ability
of other folks here at home whostill have um land-based.
Many have had people on counciland and learned the ways to
acquire more land that waythrough um through legal systems
within the tribe.
And so there are there arefolks who hold a little more

(11:42):
land than others, and so ourhope with this land is to bring
um children from town, kids whodon't have the ability to get
out on the land, or maybe um thetransportation, or maybe
parents aren't as healthy asthey could be in the future, and
so to give these youths andyoung adults a place to be where
they can four or five of themraise a 4-H deer or a pig or a

(12:06):
chicken or come and learn how tocut dry meat or how to break a
colt, how to, you know, we werethe people of the horse.
Um, prior to the horse, we ranthe heenee, the buffalo inn by
by gathering them and and havingthem go off these buffalo
jumps, this uh fishkin, but umright now uh we are the people

(12:27):
of the horse, but that I can seein my lifetime has diminished
so rapidly, and so we're goingto have some horses that that
the children can you knowconnect with as far as what
might be termed equine therapyfor us, you know, to build that
relationship with an animal tobe responsible for feeding and
watering.
And this is only you know soclose to town, 1.08 miles.

(12:50):
There's a walking trail to thehigh school here, and that's
just a quarter mile from thisland base.
So you see, this is the creek.
Oh, yeah.
There are five active, large,large beaver dams and beaver
families that live in this creekthat runs year-round.
You can see one there, onelarge one here.
There's blue heron, there arecranes, there was a um a pelican

(13:16):
even here the other day.

AJ (13:17):
Uh huh.

Kim (13:18):
And when we came for the pipe ceremony, there was a huge
eagle sitting on the fence postthere, and it wouldn't leave.
No matter how many vehicleskept coming and coming and
coming.
And the eagle stayed there.
It was pretty beautiful.
Yeah.
And then there's a hawk familythat lives down.
When you see the old cabin,there's some brush next to it,
and the hawk family lives inthat.

(13:40):
There's a big nest in thatbrush.

AJ (13:43):
Wow.
Yeah, it looks beautifulbecause it's sort of got that
wetland.
Look, it's not just the creek,it's like the whole area around
it.

Kim (13:49):
Yeah.
Beautiful.
I know the young man fromAudubon was quite thrilled.
He I think there were threemaybe species that they don't
find anywhere else in Montana.
No way.
Yeah, yeah, and the same withthe botanist who came.
We um like to bring people upfor the Western science side to

(14:11):
attach to our interns so thattheir world is expanded, that
they learn that they can go toschool for something um, you
know, that might uh resonatewith their core or with their
spirit.
And so um even the botanistsaid that I think she found
seven different species that shehasn't seen anywhere else.
So we're pretty excited aboutit.

(14:34):
So this goes all the way to thesee the ridge there with the
timber?
Yeah, yeah, right to there.

AJ (14:40):
This piece.
Awesome.
And is that the park at thetimber?

Kim (14:43):
Um, no, the park is about 1200 acres, I think, on the
other side.
Okay.
There's a uh um one ranch pastthat, which is, and this is all
very much grizz country, grizzlybear.

AJ (14:56):
Um I bought the spray.
Was that a good idea?

Kim (14:59):
Um, you know, I've never had that close of an encounter.
I've had a few encounters, butwe had chainsaws in our hands
and we were giving wood, and soum so my children's dad turned
around with the chainsaw and wasdoing this.
Then another time we werewalking in a friend of mine, um,
I kept telling him, I justdon't want to be here.

(15:19):
I'm such a bear magnet.
I think I'm gonna go back up onthe trail and go back to the
vehicle.
He's like, Oh no, it's okay,it's okay.
And just when we turned, I kepthearing bear, bear.
And um, I told him, Do you hearthat?
And he said, No, I don't hearanything.
And I said, No, it's I can hearit, I can hear it.
It's it's like, I don't know,maybe somebody's whispering,

(15:40):
it's like somebody whispering inmy ear.
I looked all around, I didn'tsee anybody.
He's like, Oh my gosh, you'resuch a freighty cat, right?
Like, never mind, it's okay.
And right then we turned aroundand there was three grizz, two
big grizz.
One stood up, and the other wasa small um cub of hers, and
then just when she started to atus, the other one stood up.

(16:03):
And my friend pushed me aside,go, go, you know, but don't run.
And I was walking very fastlyup to the trail, and then I'm
like, What am I doing?
I can't leave my friend here.
So I turned around to go back,and he said, No, go, go, and so
I went up to the trail and I waswatching, and he was yelling at
them in black feet, and theyjust dropped back down and went

(16:25):
away.
But it could have been veryugly.
Oh, yeah.
And just as we he got back upthere, some folks came, um,
tourists, and they said, We wereyelling, we were trying to tell
you.
Whoa.
So I heard them yelling, butwe're like, it was too funny.
Yeah, so this is afour-bedroom, full basement

(16:48):
house that we're going to renew.

AJ (16:50):
Cool.

Kim (16:50):
Yeah, yeah, and this is where we had our ceremony here.

AJ (16:54):
Um an old corral boat, huh?

Kim (16:56):
Yeah, round corral.
So this is for breaking thecolts, and then there's another
round corral basket back there.
And it's our hope to put up anarena.
We have a um very rodeo-basedcommunity, and so the hope is to
build an indoor arena and havesome steers because we have
these world champion amazingropers, and you know, just these

(17:20):
amazing cowboys that live inthis country, nothing like an
Indian cowboy.
And so uh to put up a smallarena where they can come out
and rope, and maybe they pay usto rope on Monday and Wednesday,
and on Tuesday we they rope forfree, but then that money would
go to feed the um the youth andthe young adults for H animals
and for other programming, andbecause we have such avid team

(17:43):
rope or calf rope or like peoplelove to um be moving in that
rodeo life and to give them anindoor arena, a place where they
can do this through the winter,yeah.
You know, probably build it upon top.
But we'd like to put a smallround corral on the inside of
that arena as well with just afew benches, grandstands around

(18:03):
the round corral so parents cancome and see their children and
become everyone become healthyand strong and well together.
This was where the lodge was.
We opened the bundle here.
The our holy bundles um areopened in the spring and opened
in the fall, and all the vowsfrom the entire year or the
winter people have come and beenpainted and make a vow, like

(18:27):
for their mother who has cancer,or the brother who's struggling
with you know, something.
And um, so they'll come and wepray they're prayed for
throughout the entire time, fromthe time they make their vow
till the time we open thebundle, and they come and maybe
they dance with an item withinthe bundle to not only humble
themselves before man but alsocreator and asking for this

(18:49):
thing.
And um, you know, they've beenin prayer about it, we've been
in prayer about it, whatever thevows that come.
They're continually prayed forin the morning, in the evening,
every day without fail, exceptlike now when we've lost a very
close loved one, the bundle'scovered, and we're kind of in a
hiatus until we're cleansed, andthen the bundle is and then
we're back into our routine ofof prayer.

(19:10):
And it's such a beautiful thingfor people to come.
So we were able to open thebundle right here.
We put the lodges up and openthe bundle here um just a few
months ago, the springtimeopening here on the land.
So that was a huge blessing tothis land.
Oh, yeah, the creek goes uphere.
We're looking to um build abridge.

(19:31):
So, with having our throats cutby this current administration
and the four and five-yearcontracts that we had um for
developing these regenerative agprinciples and experimental
stations so that people can comeand see um instead of us going
out to each of the producers'landscape, which we would do
anyway, to do the analysis andyou know help them to make a

(19:54):
plan.
But currently we have 97producers and a hundred thousand
acres in regenerative ag umproduction.
That's amazing.
I know in just a few shortyears.
Is that Montana alone?
No, right here within theBlackfeet Nation.
Is that right?
Yeah, we have close to twomillion acres reclaimed now that
is in uh uh in possession of umthe Umscope Becani people.

(20:20):
And with I think we have alittle over 200 producers, beef
and bison producers within thoseclose to two million acres, and
currently we have a hundredthousand acres in regenerative
ag practices just in a few shortyears from Pecani Lodge with
our outreach and work.
I mean, obviously not just us,because we have a whole

(20:41):
community here that's um uhdetermined to find better ways
and um help support our peoplein a better way.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay, but yeah, such beautiful.
There's two natural springs up.
You can see the two green,there's a large green leafed-out
area there, and then one aboveit.
Yeah, those are two naturalsprings that need to be um

(21:05):
promoted, or I don't know thecorrect word for that, but but
built up so that we have thatintact water system.
Clean slates.
So across this hill and therewill all be Savisberry bushes
and trees, um, so it has accessto the water, but they like
those the hillsides and not toomarshy, and so this will all be

(21:27):
Savisberry here.
We're hoping to put ourgreenhouses here.
So this is all growingbeautifully, and but we have to
be careful about where it mightflood with the springtime.
So we came out and tookpictures in the spring, and
we're just kind of tracking whatthe land does and um within
each season before uh making anydecision there.

(21:48):
We can also put them, you know,a little drier ground over
here, I think under thishillside.
We're looking for exposure andsun as well.
My cousin wants to buildgeodesic domes out here um with
uh to withstand the wind, right?
Like this is such a light,gentle breeze, but we get some

(22:09):
pretty ferocious.

AJ (22:10):
It feels like a wind to me.

Kim (22:12):
Oh my god, we get ferocious winds, you know, 60, 70, 80
miles an hour.

AJ (22:17):
So yeah.
Wow.

Kim (22:18):
Yeah, so welcome to our home.

AJ (22:20):
Amazing.

Kim (22:22):
We had six years of work ahead of us in community doing,
you know, so much for so many.
The FSA um job that we got wasuh so exciting.
It was to um to developrelations.
So back in the day, well, evenstill, there's um something

(22:45):
called the Golden Trianglethroughout this whole area of
Montana, but it was never itnever included Blackfeet.
It was it never included anytribal nations, it was only
non-tribal people who werefarmers and producers who have
um much more ready access togovernment funding because we

(23:05):
have we're wards of thegovernment.
I could have my enrollmentnumber here on my wrist, which
is not anything againstHolocaust survivors, but we are
survivors, and and so I'm a wardof the government.
They manage any land that is inmy name.
Um, they lease it out to peoplewhoever they choose to lease it
out to.
We receive this marginal maybe7% of the the lease funding

(23:30):
because the rest is foradministrative fees, right?
Right as wards of thegovernment, um, if I were to
shoot out, my nephew did this,uh light on a pole, he went to
federal prison, not stateprison.
Just turned 18.
Federal prison, because we'rewards of the government, so

(23:51):
we're only uh federal, you know,to these federal institutions,
federal, I don't know whatinstitutional is horrible.
It was a horrible situation,and and many of these things
occur.
People can come here and murderus and never be charged because
they're not tribal members.
They don't have to abide by ourlaws.
Yeah.
Paul Harvey, he was this oldradio commentator, and he uh

(24:13):
said, if you ever want to getaway with murder, go to
Browning, Montana.
Yeah, I know it was horrible,but it was true.
Yeah.
So anyway, the um the FSAcontract that we had was to
create a new golden triangle.
And so within this new goldentriangle came um the protection

(24:34):
of food systems.
That's how we were going tobuild um the large greenhouses
to incorporate traditional foodsinto our diets.
And then we did, um I createdthis hundred-day study with the
biomarkers, IgG, IgA, IgM,cortisol, C reactive protein, of
course, uh um A1C for glucose,and then the ratio between

(24:58):
omega-3 and omega-6 because beefis very high in 6, the bad fat,
and ENI, bison, is very high inomega-3.
So we created this researchproject of a 100-day diet, and
it just the analysis wasfantastic, the the end results
were fantastic from baseline tothe end of the hundred days, and
and so we knew that we were onthat, well, we knew we were on

(25:19):
the right track anyway, becauseum we have the health
disparities are so high.
The the chronic disease fromdiabetes to obesity to cancer to
heart disease to um justanything, liver any major organ
system, we're you know,sometimes 500% higher than

(25:40):
non-native communities just 30miles away.
You can stand on one side ofthe river between at the end of
on the eastern end between youknow Blackfeet Country on one
side of the river to the otherside of the river, they live 20
to 27 years longer than us onaverage.
Is it isn't that ridiculous?
20 to 27, yeah, the inequity,you know, the lack of

(26:02):
infrastructure, the everyonethinks that Native people are
you know standing with our handsout and get a check every
month, or the what what is thiselusive check you get every
month where you know by treatygave away the state, or we
didn't give it away, it wastaken the state of Montana, what
looks like the state of Montananow.
And it was for health care andeducation and housing, and and

(26:22):
you know, like we werediscussing that hypothetical
dollar scale where God bless ourveteran population, say they
get a dollar twenty-seven, andGod bless the federal inmate
population who gets a dollar forhealth care, we get like 24
cents on this hypotheticaldollar scale.
So there's no big handouthappening here, I can guarantee.
So to have this uh contractthat we had with the government

(26:47):
for um four years to create thisnew Golden Triangle to be
inclusive of the tribes alongthe high line, too.
We had three locations.
Oh yeah, aren't they beautiful?
We had three locations in theBozeman area here, and then uh
in the tribes of uh SouthDakota, Minnesota.

(27:08):
We were going to reach out tothem to create our own new
Golden Triangle system, and itincluded uh this very popular um
James Beard chef called theSioux Chef, which their name is
really Oyate, the Oyate chef,and his beautiful promotion of
indigenous foods, and he's justuh such a um a good um person to

(27:34):
be a part of that trianglebecause then that encompasses
his homelands, you know, towardsMinnesota, and then down into
Bozeman, all the tribal nations,you know, we have eight
federally recognized, whether weneeded federal recognition or
not is is beyond my you knowcapacity of understanding.
But but anyway, um we'recreating this new golden

(27:54):
triangle, the look of indigenousfoods and the safety and
protection of our food systems,which we've proven within
Western science, you know, bingescience, that this diet and
this way of life is so muchbetter for our people who
epigenetically, you know,throughout the generations ate
these foods and we wereperfectly healthy and
sustainable.

(28:15):
And then just in the lasthundred years, the you know, uh
the high in saturated fat, highin in preservative and food
coloring and sugar and thethings that we never had.
And so we went back to thistraditional diet, and within
this contract that we had withthe government, with the FSA,
which was cut upon this newadministration just days after,

(28:37):
or terminated, legal contractterminated, um, we were really
going to continue to developthat food system and bring that
understanding back to the peopleto reduce death, to reduce
chronic disease.
And the people who were in thestudy for 100 days reported this
new wholeness, this newstrength, this new energy and

(28:59):
connection to their own selvesand their identity and
connection to um ancestor, youknow, our generations past, like
just this, and they're still onthe diet.
You know, we're 50 days pastit, and the one the one girl who
we were talking about who she'svery thrilled because she's
lost 50 pounds, but she's alsothrilled because before she
never wanted to get out of bed,she suffered under, you know, a

(29:22):
new term in our society calleddepression, which we didn't
there's no word that we have fordepression, right?
So she was so thrilled aboutthis lack of inflammation that
was she was suffering underrheumatoid arthritis, etc.
And just switching back for theshort period to our traditional
diet, she's a new person.
She swears we saved her life.

(29:43):
She's hugging me and crying.
And you know, another personmade me this blanket.
She's like, Kim, I'm a new, newperson.
I'm 60 years old, and and I'velearned all these, you know, our
old ways of cooking this ordrying or preserving that, or
you know, and and now I haveanother life again.
I was thinking I was on thedownhill.
But now I have so much energy.
So this was a very importantcontract to have to create and

(30:06):
protect that food system thathas been uh exploded in yeah
anyway.
So we're we're here at thisclean slate right now and um
trying to pivot and learn newways to still do the same work
and better ways at doing um someof the old work that we were

(30:26):
contracted to do and just tryingto figure out a way to do that.

AJ (30:30):
So yeah, a different way.

Kim (30:32):
Yeah.
So what was the the um diet?
Uh-huh.
The main foods.
Um so our diet is so limited,it's just bison, right?
So we we ate a lot of fat.
There was no dairy, no sugar,you know, nothing processed, but
you had to remain within.
We added some leafy greens thathad no effect on all of the

(30:52):
biomarkers so that people coulddo big, huge salads and eat, you
know, the bison, and we had umroasts and burger and steak and
ribs and everything um possiblefor that was that came off of
the animal along with all theorgan meats, etc.
But there was no dairy, nosugar, no so I think the biggest

(31:12):
um we had bone broth.
We had someone making us bonebroth.
Um we ended up letting folksuse a little bit of what was it?
A little bit of coffee.
There was one other deviationfrom not butter because that was
dairy.
I'll have to think of it later,but but it was basically potato

(31:34):
carrot, the root vegetable.
Oh, we used um because we havewild turnip, so we use turnip
real basic, as much fat as wewanted.
Um grains, no um no beans, nolegumes, no nothing like that
because we basically were uhBuffalo economy, Buffalo
subsistence.
So everything was just eamy.

(31:55):
So we butchered um initially wehad this wonderful group called
um Honest Bison who uh who umdonated a huge amount, I can't
even remember, maybe $12,000worth of bison burger to start
us out, and then we slowlygathered, um, we got a small

(32:17):
donation from the Steel ReeseFoundation, and then the
Foundation for Food and AgResearch also helped support the
traditional diet.
So um unfortunately that waswhen COVID hit and the IRB, the
Institutional Review Board forthe Blackfeet Nation, went into
moratorium.
So we couldn't getinstitutional review approval

(32:37):
for um individual protections.
Are you familiar with IRBs,institutional review boards?
So any research that takesplace in any community
throughout the nation has to gounder an institutional review
board for beneficence versusrisk, and it all came out of the
old Tuskegee experiments whereum uh black airmen were um were

(32:59):
uh injected with syphilis.
And and the same thing with theHavasupai Indians in the Grand
Canyon.
Um blood was taken from themfor one specific research
project, but they used it formultiple mini research projects.
So there were these atrocitiesthat were committed against
African American folks andNative folks, and um so the the

(33:20):
Belmont report and the theability to um manage and protect
individuals, but it's reallyjust for individual systems, for
individual people protections.
Whereas within the BlackfeetNation, we've created an
institutional review board thatprotects our ceremony, our song,
our you know, everything fromNatu E to peaks, foom eat to
peaks, naku eat to peaks, twoeat to peaks, the underwater

(33:42):
beings, the the water itself.
And so we've broadened ourbroadened as a sovereign nation,
we've broadened ourinstitutional review and
protections of our entire what'sremaining of our homeland and
and everything within it.
Whether it's a bird or a treeor so that's been a beautiful

(34:03):
work still we're still movingforward.
So anyway, the the IRB wentinto moratorium, so our diet was
placed in moratorium for acouple of years until everything
opened back up and peopleunderstood COVID and we were
able to meet again and be ableto move forward.

(34:25):
So we'll have our experimentalregenerative this whole area up

(34:58):
above.
And then um, of course, thesystem is the growth as soon as
we can find the funding to getour greenhouses, but they're
going to be geothermal fed.
So we learned so much from ourlocal tribal college and the
folks um doing so much good workthere and um down within their

(35:22):
um their workforce development,and I'm not sure what each of
the programs is called, but theythey built a small greenhouse
and they ran PVC into theground.
I think three to five feetonly, and the heat coming out of
the earth the greenhouse, Ithink she said it 58, 60 degrees

(35:43):
through the winter.
I can't remember what thetemperature was, but it was
astounding considering it was 30below outside.
So this brush down here iswhere the Hawk family lives.
And then there's a large, youcan see the edge of that large
beaver down with the silverwillows behind it.
And there are five of thosesystems.

(36:04):
So now we'll take a ride up tolooking glass and up to um Upper
Two Medicine, which is one ofmy favorite places on earth.

AJ (36:18):
Yeah, I heard I was reading a bit about that place.
It sounds like it's um a realcenter point for the whole
nation.

Kim (36:26):
Upper two medicine?
Yeah.
It's certainly the headwatersof um of um you know the
downflow into uh Missouri intothe Mississippi.

AJ (36:37):
Right.

Kim (36:37):
And along with divide, see this triple, this peak here, the
point.
Yeah, that's triple divide, andso water flows from there up
all the way to the ArcticCircle, also out to the
Mississippi, and then over tothe Columbia River, which then
feeds into the Pacific.
So it runs in three distinctdirections: northeast, and west.

(36:59):
And so um, that's how it gotits name is Triple Divide.
So all of these mountainsreally are the headwaters to so
much uh support across the stateof Montana.
Um you know, very heated uharguments come about over water

(37:20):
rights and um, you know,headwaters water rights.
Yes.
Because back at the turn of thecentury and after the
depression, they had these workcrews that came and built a
canal system that takes all ofour water, or not all of it, but
a good majority of our waterthat's fed um north uh up into
Canada and over into the easternpart of Montana, and this has

(37:44):
been going on for almost 100 fora century.
The the now we can't get anyhelp in here for the highest
suicide rates in the nation forethnicity, for youth and young
adult suicide, and we can't getany help in here for the highest
chronic disease and you knowinfrastructure, we don't have
any um, we don't get the helpthat is needed or the assistance

(38:07):
that is needed to build astronger foundation.
But the minute the the canalsystem broke a bit, oh my god,
tens of millions of dollars ofyou know um construction going
on just instantly to get theirwater over to the eastern part
of the state.
There's no uh canal systemsthat feed our waters, we don't

(38:30):
have irrigation, we don't, youknow, with all this water that's
going through our homelands,there's no support to develop
that infrastructure that'sgreatly needed for our
production agriculture and justfor the health of the land, huh?
So yeah, and they they put in abigger plume, a bigger, huge,
huge, huge pipe to take morewater for you know gallons per

(38:54):
second.

AJ (38:54):
That'll fix it.

Kim (38:55):
Oh, that'll fix it.
That'll fix it for them.
Yeah.
I remember the lieutenantgovernor came years ago.
We're gonna build a biggerplume, we're gonna do all this
for you people.
I'm like, how is that for uspeople?
Oh well, you'll have we'llcreate three jobs and for how
long?
Oh, about three months.

AJ (39:16):
Five minutes, yeah.

Kim (39:16):
Yeah, and then you're going to take all of our water until
forever.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I hear they're quite awaiting list conversation.

AJ (39:27):
Yeah.

Kim (39:30):
John Sherman.
Yeah, it's it's clever, butonly if you're not zoo.
Because it's not a good word.
And so they've changed theirname back to Oyake, which is
their real name.
Like us, we are Pikani, we'renot blackbeat.
And so as people are umbeginning to become more, I
don't know, I hate to overusethe word empowered, but it's

(39:52):
true.
As we're beginning to becomemore um in place and uh
beautifully strong in ouridentity instead of the
oppression of reservation anddirty Indons and you know all of
that.
Um now we're reverting back tolike we are um scopi bikani as

(40:13):
opposed to blackfeet and uh I Ican't speak for the strong and
vibrant and beautiful anddetermined Sioux nations, the
Oyate nations, but it's myunderstanding that Oyate is the
correct correct word for theirtribal nations.
So um even here at home, likewe have our slang, and so you

(40:36):
know, on the res or the res thisor I'm a res grandma, or you
know, all of our slang, but umin my mind and in my spirit, I
keep promoting uh folks to saytribal nation because we are
sovereign nations as opposed tothe blackfeet reservation, it's
the blackfeet nation, right?

(40:56):
Because we are distinct andseparate.

AJ (41:00):
So I've cottoned onto that and and and across the country
too.
Like we visited the Osage andthe chief said that precisely.
It said the same words prettymuch.
Yeah, we're the Osage Nationbecause we are a nation.

Kim (41:13):
Yes, beautiful.
And so it's um, you know, we'reso far behind in so many
things.
I was working at NIH, theNational Institutes of Health,
and we had someone come in whopresented a you know PowerPoint
slideshow on on uh um thingsthat were happening within his
ethnicity, and and uh they askedfor my opinion, and I said,

(41:35):
well, we're about a hundred feetbehind that fence that you guys
are looking over and 40 feet inthe ground because you know
it's it's very convenient tokeep tribal nations out of the
limelight.
It's very convenient to not becalled out on um treaty uh
obligations.
It's very convenient for peopleto understand that there is no

(41:56):
legal system that reallyprotects our people.
It's very convenient, you know,for high incarceration rates of
Native people because the trustresponsibility then is you know
diminished and diminished.
It's very convenient for themto have their pedigree, uh like
a dog uh pedigree system for ourbloodlines because the less

(42:17):
people who are enrolled, thenthe less obligation there is,
even at that, you know,hypothetical dollar scale that I
was mentioning 24 cents on thedollar for every um, you know,
like for healthcare or educationor say, oh, but you you get
educational support.
Well, I think the highereducation dollars um help with

(42:39):
maybe $800 a semester for fourstudents a year.
Like it's ridiculous.
It's not there's no um there'sno huge amount of money flowing
into our tribal nation and toour people that uh it's
convenient for people to saythat oh well you stand there
with your hand out for a checkand get all this Indian money.
It's convenient because thenyou don't have to directly deal

(43:02):
with um the truths of the landand the truths of the people and
the truths of the underfundingand lack of infrastructure and
you know health disparity andchronic disease and death and
suicide rates.
It just you can call call itwhatever you want to so that you
don't have to think about it.
Better to point a finger, eh?

AJ (43:24):
Well that's it, isn't it?
I just think that thatresonates so deeply because the
ways it's almost survivalmechanisms for humans, isn't it?
Is it's the stories we telleach other at times, and and
that's a form of it, I think.
That so much is jeopardized tobe able to own that truth.

(43:46):
I mean I'm trying to feel intoit, aren't I, because it's it's
just it's just so it's sohorrific.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That you try to understand whatit is that stops people just
being able to to love face itand love, yeah.
That's just that's just love.

Kim (44:05):
I know it's it's you know, and and we have these determined
passions to do just that andbuild this connected and
relationship-based society, andthen we're marching 48 miles to
beg the local law enforcement tocharge a non-native woman for
killing a young native lady, youknow, and and oh, they how

(44:28):
readily they charge her withchild endangerment of her two
non-native white childrenbecause they're in the vehicle,
but never, ever, ever a chargefor this young girl who was
walking 20 feet off the roadthat she ran into, hit and
killed, and fled the scene.
You know, you have to go allthe way to DC and bang on the
senator's desk to get a specialprosecutor in.

(44:48):
And you know, people who arenon-native don't have to march
for 48 miles with signs andcreate a global movement like
Micah Matters to get just justget you know the base baseline
of justice.
You know, let us just have somejustice, and so we're we're
saying, oh, let's live with loveand treat each other, you know,

(45:09):
with mutual respect and and anduh value, and then we have our
children murdered or ourgrandchildren, and we're just
you know, hands up in the air.
How does this how do you evenum justify not charging this,
you know, woman who veryobviously had our child's
remains on her vehicle, but youcharge her with child

(45:31):
endangerment for her two whitechildren in the car.
But this young, beautifulukulele playing NASA camp
teaching, you know, spoke at theUnited Nations indigenous.
Oh yeah.
She was this beautiful younggirl who had an entire life
ahead of her, and and they won'teven charge the non-native

(45:52):
person with her death, right?
Until we raised so much heckacross the world that they had
to, but you know, how do youit's a duality, right?
Like we want to do so much, wewant to love so much, and we
want to respect, and isn't thatbeautiful those verses?
But then we're continually, youknow, confronted with how many

(46:14):
M M IP murdered, missing andmurdered indigenous people um to
date, you know, without anywe're we were the blessed and
lucky ones that we had some someform of justice that we had to
fight tooth and nail for, butthere are tens of thousands of
missing and murdered indigenouspeople that nothing is ever done

(46:35):
about right here at home.
You know, I can begin namingnames, yeah, very, very quickly
on go through all my fingers onmy hands and toes, and nothing
has ever been done.
So there are different thingsthat I think keep us as well
from from being able to fullycome together and I don't know.

(47:00):
I'm not a big theme.
Just a lot of heart.
Okay, yeah.
There's our mountains, there'sTriple Divide, there's Mad Wolf
Basin, there's Upper Tumet,Cinepaw, you'll see when we get
up there.
It's so gorgeous.
And this is where we used tohave the 40 head of buffalo that

(47:25):
we had to go up into Canada andbuy horses off the racetrack to
be able to uh I hate the wordmanage, but yeah, to be able to
keep up with just over thisridge here.
And that's Red Blanket Ridge,that was our last tree burial.
Um because we buried our peoplein the trees with their
belongings.
And so Red Blanket was thelast, um really?

(47:48):
Yeah, the last man that was uhthat we know of by oral
tradition that was buried in thetrees.
But when are we talking?
I don't know.
I don't know the how does thathappen?
I think it's more of a frame.
You put a frame up with thebuffalo robe and put the person
on it and they're lifted up.

AJ (48:08):
Oh yeah.
Yes.

Kim (48:10):
I'm sure then we had rawhide that we used for our
robes.
Yes, of course.
And you know, for leverage andfulcrum pulley.

AJ (48:17):
You know, some of this the brilliant stuff and spirit that
you were talking about and withhere reminds me of our visit to
the Cheyenne River SiouxReservation.
It was a woman called, well, itwas the channel's daughter,
Kelsey Scott, that we spoke withthere, and she said some of the
folk there have actuallystarted to resume the sky

(48:40):
burials.
Oh they're bringing them back.
Yeah, the daughter.

Kim (48:44):
Beautiful, yeah.
Wow.

AJ (48:46):
But yeah, we saw the scaffolding, they had the
scaffolding out on a piece ofland out there.

Kim (48:51):
Uh-huh.
Um this uh reclamation ofidentity and homelands and our
culture is just so vibrant andstrong.
This next generation has sobeen taught by us um to not,
we're not going to do the otheranymore.

(49:11):
We're not going to accept thatas our reality anymore.
So I think that's all of themovement of passion and heart
from everywhere from uh music touh culture, you know.
We even have these amazingyoung indigenous designers, and
just there's just so much moreum uh ownership and and strength

(49:36):
and empowerment and the thingsthat are happening now for sure.
This is called Nine Mile, andof course, another place that is
not native-owned all of EastGlacier.
You know, uh folks came in atthe same time that I was talking
about with the land that we'vereclaimed, and because we can't

(49:57):
get loans, we could never walkinto a bank and get a loan
because trust property um it'snot the same as fee property, so
you can't put it out for aloan, or um, it just was policy.
Native people didn't, yeah, youcouldn't get a loan.
And so they were able to comein and start all these
businesses, East Glacier, St.
Mary's, and just make bank offof you know what is here for

(50:20):
industry, tourism, because ofwhat is now called Glacier
National Park.
So every business the tribe hashas uh in our brilliant
leadership purchased a few ofthe businesses that were going
out of business during COVID.
So we're beginning to get avery small foothold back in our
own homelands in East Glacier,where you know the the history

(50:42):
of the rail line that camethrough really from the
annihilation of the buffalo andthe creation of of uh these
large hotels that were you knowduring Roosevelt, the
president's time, to have aplace for people to enjoy the
national parks that he wascreating, maybe more elitism

(51:05):
kind of stuff.
But um, you know, our peoplewere starving to death right
here with this land taken awayand our ability to hunt and to
legally we couldn't even butcherour own cow.
I remember my grandfathersaying, My girl, I remember the
year you were born.
I will always remember thatyear.
It was the first year we couldbutcher one of our own cows
without having to write to thesuperintendent and ask his

(51:28):
permission that would then begranted months in it, you know,
months away.
So you couldn't even kill oneof your own cows.
We were so systematically, youknow, our spirit annihilated and
controlled and oppressed.
And so, yeah, that was uh andthat was a long time ago, right?
1959.

(51:48):
Yeah.

AJ (51:49):
Well, that's the thing, it's not that long ago.

Kim (51:52):
Exactly.
Exactly.
My great-grandmother was takenaway in a rail car in the middle
of winter to this place as faraway.
Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

AJ (52:03):
Oh, she went to Carlo.

Kim (52:04):
Yeah, and never returned home until she was 21.
So you can imagine when thathappened, you know, to two or
three members of each family orfive members, and you know,
being away from your home andyour family for 15, 16, 20
years.
See, non-native.

AJ (52:20):
Yeah, right.

Kim (52:21):
Yeah.

AJ (52:22):
Oh.

Kim (52:23):
US Canadian.
Nor do they employ us.

AJ (52:27):
Really?
Yeah, really.

Kim (52:28):
We're 38 miles away from Canada.
Yeah, it's just right next touh Nina, Staku, where we're
gonna go, Chief Mountain.
Going up through here, this iswhere I did my first fast.
I had um, yeah, just gotten myIndian name, Mesam Saipiaki,
which is uh it means long timecharging woman.

(52:51):
And I had been at my friend hadlost her son, her and her
husband.
Um, he was the baby, and theyhe was kind of a change of life
baby, and so he managedeverything, all the winter
feeding of the bee, the cattle,and just he took care of so
much.
And when he died um in anautomobile crash, they were just

(53:14):
so in such deep grief.
We all grieve deeply for thosewe love.
But this was a special griefthat they just couldn't, you
know, because he they were alsolosing their livelihood, their
you know, plus the love of thisonly male child, not that not
that we're a patriarchal societyor anything like that, but he
was the baby, so any, you know,the last born.

(53:37):
And um, they were so broken upwith grief, they called uh a
medicine person down fromCanada, and he came to to help
them.
And I was working asphalt.
We paved this road, as a matterof fact.
Can you imagine backing a bellydump up to the paver all the
way to the top 47 times?

(53:57):
You'll see how crooked the roadis, and then from the other
side to pave down that side andto pave down this side.
Anyway, we were we were pavingum we finally had the dirt roads
were um being paved in town,and so maybe about 20 years ago.
And she called me and said,Kim, can you come and help feed,
help serve?
Um, this man is coming to helpus.

(54:19):
And I'm like, Of course, butyou know, I'll be in my work
clothes because uh we're workingand this is what and so she
said it doesn't matter, justcome, come as you are, and can
you help?
And so I flew out there afterwork and got everyone fed.
It was so nice.
And I looked over her and ather and she was smiling.

(54:40):
So everything that he didthere, the ceremony that he did
to help them, um, it relievedthe you know, some of the weight
that they were carrying.
And I was so excited for them,I kind of started to cry.
And I didn't want her to see mytears because I didn't want her
to mistake that for more grief,and so I kind of um uh secretly

(55:03):
left the house and uh went downto the crick and I was offering
some tobacco up to say thankyou to Creator for for helping
them, for helping them.
And um, I could hear heryelling for me at the house,
Kim, Kim, this man wants to knowif your children have Indian
names.
And so I went up there and Itold her that they did not, they

(55:25):
hadn't been named yet, and heoffered to name them and he
named them so beautifully.
My my daughter, uh Mastu Oki,uh Clear Water Woman, and he
told the story of when him andhis brother were up hunting in
the mountains that they knewsince childhood, and somehow
ended up getting lost.

(55:45):
And they were lost in their ownmountains that they they didn't
understand.
It was like they stepped into adifferent river or something.
And in the morning they cameacross some water that was just
like the most refreshing andlife-saving water, and so that
was the name he gave her.
Was that what he saw in herbecause she was always taking
people in and giving them newlife, basically?

(56:08):
My other son, who that you'vemet doing the uh first
promotion, uh the state championbox or golden gloves boxer
anyway, he's doing thispromotion of um the boxing to
bring kids off the streets to beable to have some kind of a
focus, and and so whether wecall it taekwondo or or um um

(56:32):
protection, self-protection orboxing or whatever, he's he's
doing this beautiful thing forum youths who don't really have
a place to go.
Big Munch tonight.
Yeah, big one tonight, hisfirst one.
So his name is uh is uh StrongMountain.
He's a strong strong mountain,and then the other one, his name

(56:54):
um he didn't really like.
You could see him kind of hisshoulders lift up when he named
him uh magpie mamiatsiki.
Uh but he said, no, no, no, Ican tell that you don't
understand your name, but thethe magpie is the smartest of
birds, the best hunter, theluckiest, you know, all of these

(57:14):
things.
And it wasn't long after thatthat my son contracted um an
Ebola-like hemorrhagic fevercalled uh Hontavirus, and you
know, lived through being on aventilator and uh, you know,
this hemorrhagic fever.
Obviously, his organs wereturning to mush, etc.
So he was very lucky that helived through that.

(57:34):
And now, um, because when hegoes hunting, he gets the huge
boon and crocked elk and themagic buffalo that comes across
the border 20 years ago.
There were no buffalo up there,and and this big huge buffalo
appeared out of nowhere, and sohe fed us for the entire winter
on that buffalo, and so um hevery much is his name.

(57:55):
And then I was given the namelong time charging woman that I
didn't understand 20 years ago,but I certainly understand it.

AJ (58:02):
It seems it seems pretty apparent.
Isn't this beautiful?
But this is a common thing Ihear too, huh?
I think even Latrice said it.
She was a bit like, I don'tknow, about the name I've been
given Latrice had been talkingabout earlier out of the book.
Um that I read in the bookHealing Ground and then or in in
the regenerate conference atTimberlata has come to it.

Kim (58:25):
Yeah, grown into her now because they know like when he
put his hand on my head beforehe named me, I felt him go away.
I his hand remained on my head,his physical body was here, but
I felt him go, you know, to theancestors or to you know,
however you want to talk aboutthis Holy Spirit or the
grandmothers, the grandfathersto the helpers, right?
Who who told him what to nameme.

(58:47):
And so they knew who I wasgoing to be.
Right?
And yeah.
And how do you say me somesafe?
That's such a beautifullanguage to have a lot of fun.
So this is uh we've ran cows upin here for 10 years.
It was very much grizzledcountry, so I pulled over just

(59:09):
in case we might see a grizzlybear.
But you have to be very wellmounted to ride this country.
And I had the best horse ever.
He was a red drone, his namewas Rex.
And my cousins brought him fromthe movies.
He came out of he was a moviehorse, so he reared up and he

(59:30):
and they want they brought himhome to rope on him because he
was so smart and so fast.
But he kept rearing up, Ithink, and um when they back up,
you know, to get behind thebarrier.
And so we traded this paint,red paint stud for him.
And oh, he loved me.
He would just jump up and downon all in the corral when he saw

(59:52):
me coming.
He was so excited to get to go.
And he was just the best horse,he would keep my legs away from
the trees, you know, when we'regetting.
Through the brush really fastwhen we were trying to go in and
get some cows out, and he justwas so protective and go down
the back side of these mountainson the shale and keep me
upright, and he just was thebest horse ever.
So after I got my name, um,that saddle here, right up

(01:00:20):
there, I went up to fast becauseI was just so grateful and I
didn't understand things.
And I had um come home fromworking in Arizona, and I went
to our elders at the time,Georgia Molly Kicking Woman, and
um they sent me to go uh sweatbecause they said I had all of
the stuff on me that I broughthome from, you know, down there.

(01:00:41):
And they wanted me protectedand clean cleansed and
protected.
So I went to sweat um for thefirst time in my life, and uh
the elder of the sweat, the onethat ran it, he told me in the
second round, the grandfathers,the grandmothers would come and
doctor me and take all of thatoff of me.

(01:01:01):
And you could hear all of thesevoices, the old speaking old
black feet, and um the eaglecame by me all across me, and
you know, just like it wasreally beautiful.
And um, when I came out of thesecond round, he told me that
they had left thunder for me formy protection, and his brother
was like, excuse my language,but he's like, Holy shit, Kim!

(01:01:24):
I've been I've been sweating for20 years, I never got thunder
for my protection.
Oh no, he said, holy shit,tourist.
Or I should say holy heckbecause I should clean up my
language for this podcast.
But he said, Holy heck, Kim.
I've been sweating for 20 yearsand I never got thunder for my
protection.
So um uh you must be eitherreally, really, really bad or

(01:01:47):
really, really, really good.
I'm like, no, no, no.
I'm not, I don't think I'm badat all.
Maybe I'm bad, I don't know.
Anyway, I didn't understand andI I didn't understand what it
meant to get thunder as myprotection.
And so I kept wanting to comeright up here because this is a
spot that just was calling methat saddle right there where

(01:02:07):
that peak is, where the rock iscoming down.
And so I told my sweetheart umeach day after I was named, I
have to go up there and make anoffering, I have to leave some
tobacco, I have to, I have to goup there and fast.
And the wind was blowing moreseverely than I had ever, ever
been in.
And he said, We can't ride upthere, the wind's too bad, you

(01:02:28):
have to wait.
So I started my fast down atthe house, which is right down
there at Kiowa.
And um, the second day got upand wanted to get up here
horseback, and he's like, No,no, no, the wind is too bad,
Kim.
It's like a hundred miles anhour.
You can't, you just can't.
And so I kept fasting.
The third day, it's like I haveto go up there now, whether the
wind is a hundred.
So he said, I knew you weregonna say that.

(01:02:50):
Your horse is already saddledup.
I'm like, oh, thank you.
And anyway, he rode up herewith me, but he stayed below the
shale down there, right?
And I went up through there andback up there, and there was an
old bristle cone pine, one treethat was up there, and so I was
on the third day of my fast, soI was pretty weak, but um, even
to get up there, the wind wasblowing so hard that I had my um

(01:03:14):
arm around the saddle horn, andthen I had a man hole too
because it was blowing me out ofthe saddle, but I wouldn't give
up, and I went up there with mytobacco, and I was a stanking
creator, and I don't understandhow things work.
I know that you know I neverwas raised in a church and I
wasn't raised with our old ways,but when um when my life was in

(01:03:35):
danger and someone had a gun tomy head, I cried out, Jesus, if
you're real, save me, and I wassaved.
So I never want to walk awayfrom from what you've already
done for me, but I just want toknow, can you help me?
Can you help me please?
Is this all the same?
Did you give us our old ways,which are our current ways, and

(01:03:55):
then give us, you know, your sonor your sons of all of these,
you know, people across theglobe who've came in different
times to help us?
Did you give us that along withour old ways?
I just want to learn if it'sokay if I can learn and it's all
the same.
Can you just give me a sign?
And I'm like just really bracedwith this bristle-coned pine.

(01:04:17):
My arm is around it and I'mbeing buffeted like crazy.
And when I say, Can you give mea sign?
Everything stopped.
The wind stopped.
You could hear a pine needledrop.
Like three days of this crazy,crazy, crazy wind.
And he just made it all stop.
And I fell, of course, becauseI'm leaning into the west and

(01:04:40):
I'm f I fell to my knees and I'msobbing, you know, like snot
sobbing, you know, when the snotcomes to your nose.
I'm like, thank you, thank you,thank you.
Oh my gosh, I I who knew, youknow, I'm just so grateful,
thank you so much.
We get to learn it all, andit's all the same.
It's just love.
So I I gather myself and I getback up, and um, in some ways,

(01:05:02):
uh, that people worship here isuh ohate, the sundance.
Um the the Oyate brought thisto us and taught us this in a
way for helping our people,also.
And some people practice that.
And I know that um they use uhblue cloth, you know, for
thunder.
And so I had all this tobaccoand I put it in this blue cloth

(01:05:23):
and I'm crying because he juststopped the wind.
And I was there, you know, likeI asked for the sign, and so
I'm sobbing, I'm wiping my noseand holding this cloth up and
I'm praying, and I'm like, Idon't know what I'm doing.
I just know I I just got myIndian name, my kids got their
Indian name.
I'm just so grateful to bealive and to be breathing in and

(01:05:43):
out, and you just stopped thewind.
And and I'm like, uh that's ourword for thunder.
I don't know what it means toget you as as my protection, but
I'm just so grateful.
I just have this pitiful littlegift to say thank you.
And and I had um put seven, youknow, bunches of tobacco in
this blue cloth, and I washolding it up and I'm praying
with my eyes closed.

(01:06:04):
Thank you so much.
I just I'm so grateful to you.
I know this is pitiful, and Ireally don't know what I'm
doing.
If you could just have pity onme, this is this is what I'm
offering to say thank you, and Iknow that it's it's nothing,
and I know I don't understandany of this, and and I'm I'm
standing there with my eyesclosed, and you've heard a
supersonic jet, the thesupersonic boom.

(01:06:25):
Yeah, and I'm standing therelike this, and boom, boom, boom,
boom, like almost blew me offthat mountain, and in the same
moment that I'm praying, I'mcussing.
I'm like, what the hell?
Open my eyes, and I'm like,okay, okay, I'm sorry, I'm
sorry, I don't need to cuss.
But there was nothing there.
I thought there was jetspracticing or something, there

(01:06:47):
was nothing there, and it wassilent again.
So um I know that those thunderbeings came and took my pitiful
little thank you, and theyshowed me that they're real, and
so to have that hugeness asyour protection.
Not that I try to jump off amountain and test it or

(01:07:09):
anything, but but it was justum, I think a teaching, um, a
blessing for us to allunderstand that we are being
protected at all times and tomake good choices and to um use
the gifts that we're given tohelp others, to let people know
that that this is a reality thatmaybe we don't see, but it's

(01:07:32):
going on all around us.
Yeah.
Anyway, so that's that's whatit meant to have thunder beings,
and that's what that saddlemeans to me up there with that
one bristle cone pine.
Yeah.
Yeah.

AJ (01:07:45):
Oh, it just it puts a whole other lens.
I mean, I'm really feeling intothe questions you took up
there, puts a whole other lenson everything that you have
experienced and are experiencingthat is so just wrong.
Right.
Yeah.
That there's still a biggerlens.

Kim (01:08:05):
Yeah, way beyond that.

AJ (01:08:07):
Yeah.

Kim (01:08:08):
Right?
I know when I rode back down towhere my sweetheart was, a
horseback, and he's like, holycow, Kim, I've I've seen you
pray for people, but neverstopped the win.
Old cowboy, right?
Old gonk riding, barebackriding guy.
And um, I'm like, no, no, no,Harry, that wasn't no no no,
that was creator God, thatwasn't me.
I didn't, I just asked thequestion for a sign, and that's

(01:08:30):
what he did.
It wasn't, you know, we don'thave we're humans, we're just
babies in this this life, huh?
So yeah.
That's the Goombeek SeaThunderbird story.
And who could have you don'timagine the I mean maybe people
with great imagination imaginedthose things, but I could not

(01:08:51):
have imagined that happening.
I was shocked beyond measure.
So this is uh looking glassroad going up to upper to
Medicine.
Can you imagine backing a bigbelly dump up there?
There was only a few of us thatum would do it, would take take
up the cross.

(01:09:11):
Take up the it was really a fewquit the first few days because
it's very hard to back a biglong huge trailer all the way up
to the top and you know keepsection back up, back up, back
up, and then on the other sidewe had to pave the other side
too, but trying to save theroad.
I thought it was fun.

(01:09:32):
Here we are.
Oh my goodness.

AJ (01:09:38):
Oh my god, this is crazy.

Kim (01:09:46):
It's a good day, huh?

AJ (01:09:48):
It's clear and dramatic skies.
Welcome to Blackfeet Country.
Welcome to Kitani Country.
Wow.