Where Knowledge Systems Meet, Country Heals: A Panel at Grounded Festival WA

Straight after the Regenerating Food Systems conference you’ve been hearing from in recent weeks, we headed south for the Grounded Festival. It was my privilege to host proceedings there on the last day, in one of the two marquees by the lake, on the wonderful Galloway Springs Farm near Bridgetown. There were three panel conversations there that the team at Grounded has generously allowed me to share here. 

Those panels happened to be such emotional, substantial and funny pinnacles of what had been an extraordinary week as a whole here in WA – from Government House, through the conference at the city Stadium, to this festival in the field. 

These panel conversations offer something of a debrief on the week, some significant early outcomes and resolutions, and the spirit that had summed along the way. 

First up, then, the morning panel, still reverberating for many, featuring three people who had been at the three major events – and some others - through the week: 

• West Australians of the Year, farmers and previous podcast guests, Di and Ian Haggerty; and
• Noongar and Thin-ma Warriyanka woman and also a previous podcast guest, Heidi Mippy. 

On the topic of First Nations Integration into the Food System. And how this yarn builds. 

Chapter markers & transcript.

Recorded 20 September 2025.

Title image: AJ, Heidi, Di and Ian on stage (pic: Alan Benson).

See more photos on the episode web page, including the illustration by Brenna Quinlan, and for more behind the scenes, become a supporting listener below.

If you’d like to see that image of the Wagyl on Heidi’s first visit to the Haggerty farm, head to episode 143.

Music:

Barefoot, by Mark Grundhoefer (from Artlist).

Regeneration, by Amelia Barden.

The RegenNarration playlist, music chosen by guests.

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Episode Transcript

AJ (00:00):
G'day, Anthony James here for The RegenNarration, your
ad-free, freely available,listener-supported podcast,
exploring how people areregenerating the systems and
stories we live by.
Straight after the RegeneratingFood Systems conference you've
been hearing from in recentweeks, we headed south for the
Grounded Festival.
It was my privilege to hostproceedings there on the last

(00:22):
day in one of the two marqueesby the lake on the beautiful
Galloway Springs farm nearBridgetown.
And there were three panelconversations there that the
team at Grounded has generouslyallowed me to share here.
Because those panels happen tobe such emotional, substantial
and funny pinnacles of what hadbeen a remarkable week as a

(00:43):
whole here in WA.
From Government House, throughthe conference in the city
stadium, to this festival in thefield.
These panel conversations offersomething of a debrief on the
week, some significant earlyoutcomes and resolutions, and
the spirit that it summed alongthe way.
First up then, theextraordinary morning panel.
Still reverberating for many,featuring three people who had

(01:07):
been at the three major eventsand some others through the
week.
West Australians of the Year,farmers, friends, and no
strangers to this podcast, alsolongtime supporters of it,
Dianne and Ian Haggerty, andNoongar and Thinmar Warianka
Woman, friend and also nostranger to this podcast, Heidi
Mippy, on the topic of FirstNations integration into the

(01:28):
food system.
And how this yarn builds.
Let's head over to the farm.
G'day everyone! Welcome to avery special session, this one
on First Nations integrationinto the food system.
I want to um start byintroducing the couple on the
left there, on my left, whoprobably need no introducing.

(01:48):
Our current West Australians ofthe Year.
Let's start with a big hand forthat, eh?
Unbelievable.
It's funny after decades ofwork and innovation and often
being alone with it, that that Ishould come home from a stint
away and they're WestAustralians of the Year.
It seems to be indicative fromwhat I found in just the few

(02:09):
weeks I've been back of a realstep change.
And I've had that echoed from abunch of people in the last few
days.
And perhaps, yeah, exemplifiedhere too, with something that
wasn't here before and is infull colour right now.
It's just magnificent to bepart of.
I also want to introduce thenthe woman to my immediate left.
For those who don't know ordidn't see her yesterday,
perhaps, uh, a Noonga and DinmaWarianga woman with cultural

(02:32):
ties to the southwest here andupper Gascoigne regions of WA.
Vastly experienced across allsectors, award-winning in
multiple awards too.
I would be here for a while ifI was reading them out.
Volunteers her time to severalboards and advisory groups,
particularly passionate aboutNoongar-led restoration, and
within that, the economicopportunities for Noongar people
through nature-based solutions.

(02:52):
Just returned too from a globalfood sovereignty conference in
Sri Lanka relating to the PhDshe's currently undertaking.
Let's give a massive hand forHeidi Nippy.
And I want to lead off thisconversation with Heidi for
obvious reasons, probably, butalso knowing that you've

(03:13):
advocated in this space foryears, certainly as long as I've
known you and beyond, withstruggles.
I'll never forget the story ofthe rifle pulled on you on
country at one point on a farm.
And here we are talking aboutthis topic that you talked about
yesterday in your session.
But for those who weren'tthere, I wonder if we can start

(03:33):
this one with a little primer ofhow you're seeing this now and
what you're the message you'resending now.

Heidi (03:40):
Thank you, AJ, and thanks everyone for taking the time to
come and listen and be part ofthe yarn.
Where do I see things now?
So I I work across bothrestoration, conservation, and
ag spaces.
I find the restoration spacesand conservation spaces a little
a little more boring.
The reason I'm doing that isbecause I think the greatest

(04:06):
opportunity for us tocollaborate and work more
quickly to heal a larger amountof country is in this space.
So that's where I'm kind ofleaning in into into the most,
not to say I'm not involved inthe other things because I am,
and I'm also fairly passionateabout breaking down some of
those um silos in industry andstarting to looking at country

(04:28):
um holistically rather thanthrough industries.

AJ (04:32):
You said yesterday that if all farms went regen now, it
still wouldn't heal country.
What were you getting at?

Heidi (04:40):
Yeah, the context that I was saying this in, and um I'm
not always the person to bepolitically correct, so I just
probably um say that again, um,was around the offset programs
that we have squeezing into agindustry, and that even if we
allowed those offset programs torun on everyone's farms and

(05:01):
people's properties, that itstill wouldn't be enough for the
emissions that we have in thosebig industries.
So I was really trying to say,in a polite way, we need to push
back against the woodsides andchevrons and those who are
forcing their way into ourcountry and our landscapes,
doing some pretty averagerestoration efforts and maybe

(05:23):
think about how we reshape thestory moving forward and put
more pressure back on them toreduce emissions in the first
instance.

AJ (05:35):
And you also talked about the level to which we can just
do the healing of countrytogether now.
We can choose it together now.
Farmers that have the title andFirst Nations that have the
country.
And you've been broaching thiswith the people next to you.
How's that happened and andhow's it feeling?

(05:57):
Like, where's it going?

Heidi (05:58):
So, like it happens by invitation, right?
Like uh Diane and had beeninviting or had extended an
invitation probably years beforeI went to their property just
to come out and visit, like theno expectation, just you want to
come and um meet us and sit oncountry.
And then you know, I was busylike we all are, and then there

(06:20):
was an opportunity where I feltlike oh, I could actually just
redirect a little bit of mytravel and I'll um come and
visit and and participate intheir field day.
Um, so that happened, itliterally happened like that
last minute.
Um, and there I was, and magichappens when you're on country,
and everyone knows this who's oncountry, right?

(06:41):
And I I um have my ownexperiences which I shared a
little bit yesterday, and sowhen I was on Diane's property,
there was a connection that fromthat I can never ignore now.
Like it's um it's a obligationfor me to maintain that
connection and relationship.
So we slowly, slowly, becauseDiane are very busy, and I'm

(07:03):
very busy, everyone's very busy.
Um in our own time, we justkeep the conversation going and
the thinking and exploring andconnecting and our families
connecting and doing the thingsthat we do, and that's like I'm
real happy with that.
Um I I couldn't really tell youwhat the outcomes are because
we're not looking for outcomes,we're we're building the story

(07:23):
together, and it's still earlystages because I think it's
going to be a long long-termjourney.

AJ (07:29):
The first visit.
How was it?
And and yeah, go there.

Heidi (07:34):
All right.

AJ (07:35):
Full license.

Heidi (07:36):
I've got to try to remember this properly now.
So the first visit, um, Dianeanwere very generous and said I
could stay um at their house atout right near them.
And I'd never never met DianeIan and and no any hardly any of
the people who were at thisfield day.
How many people did you have onthat field day?
170.
So there's a lot of people.
And I came in later, um, wentto sleep in the night time, and

(08:01):
this is before I was asleep.
I'll lay in the bed, and therewas like this cool saddle there,
and I remember looking at this.
That was real saddle.
I was like, looking what howI'm gonna go if I wake up in the
night and see that thing there.
Um, anyway, when I was tryingto fall asleep, I uh had an
experience where a waggle, whichis like a rainbow serpent, um,

(08:23):
came across my body from thisside.
I was actually laying like thisin this room, and it came
across and sat on my chest, andthen it went this way.
Um and I could yeah, there waslots of things I could share
with you about what I sensedfrom that waggle.
But what I knew was that thatwaggle was trying to get to a

(08:44):
water source that was nearby.
And in the morning when we wokeup, Di and I went out to get
some native grasses, didn't we,to bring in for the field day.
So I I took a big riskthinking, oh, I wonder if I
should share this story with Di.
She'll probably never invite meback again.
Um and I did.
I shared this story about thewaggle and I asked about water,

(09:06):
like is there a water sourcenear to the house?
Well I already knew there was,right, because the waggle told
me, but I wanted to ask Dye.
And that's when um that's whenI was told about this Yamahole,
which was right at the in thatum granite outcrop just to the
left of the property, veryclose.
So we went for a walk to thenyamahole, and the well, you

(09:30):
came.
Some of the people here, thesoils blokes with the camera,
got the drones up, and we wentout to see the nyamahole.
Um, but I didn't ask to beshown exactly where it was, we
just walked over towards itbecause I like to feel country.
So we went walking, and I didnot go like from here to there.
I went like this, or we wentlike this, and then douge, and I

(09:52):
kind of looking back towardsthe property again.
And when I looked down, we werestanding on this rock, the
shape of a snake's head.
This is a true story.
You can go and look at thefootage if you don't believe me,
because if anyone startswalking out, I'm thinking
Heidi's not telling the truth,but this is true.
The drawing footage is prettyamazing, and where we walked, so
we saw a flower where westarted to walk, this little red

(10:14):
thing, I don't even know whatit is.
And we went like this, cameback, douche, and that same
flower was there both at the tipof the snake's body and at the
tip of the snake's head.
So kind of lots of things elsehappened relating to that, but
um that was the moment I thinkthat brought us together.

(10:37):
It brought the knowledgesystems together that no matter
whether you believe in them ortrust in them or not, you can't
deny them when you experienceit.
And I am very lucky to havethose experiences with
non-Aboriginal people on countryoften, and for us that was like
helped to um form the start ofour relationship and that our

(11:00):
our joint connection andresponsibility for country.

AJ (11:04):
Thank you.
I believe your microphone'sabout to go flat too.
It was the wrong battery, solet's swap.
You take that one, you takethat one, and I'll go this one.
And uh give it a try, becauseI'm gonna throw it to you guys
now.
That day with this experience,and then the next yeah, the next
morning walking around.
What did it mean to you toconnect in this way with yeah,

(11:29):
the other knowledge system, theancient knowledge system on this
country?

Di (11:33):
It was an incredibly powerful time.
Um a few of us went out thenext morning as well.
Um Heidi was generous enough toshare her knowledge and
understanding with a number ofpeople that were keen to be
participating.
And we all, well, it was anemotional response, a physical
response, um, just the shiversup your spine, and you could

(11:55):
just feel the power of thatmoment.
Yeah, and it's still a verypowerful moment for all of us,
and um yeah, just reallyconsolidated the strength of the
relationship.
And then Heidi was very kind totake the whole group out and
walk some song lines and explainsome parts within the landscape
and what it all meant, andeverybody felt it male, female

(12:17):
from all parts of the thenation.
There was people fromQueensland there and um all over
the place, and yeah, everyonewas incredibly moved, and we're
just so grateful for thatopportunity.

AJ (12:28):
I think about the 30 years that you've been farming before
this happens, and I think aboutall the other farmers, you know,
that Joshua was talking aboutearlier that an aging
demographic that haven't yetexperienced it.
I wonder, Ian, almost in asense, what would you tell them
about we know there's a bit offear out there, I guess we know

(12:48):
perhaps there's a bit of umwhere would I start even if I
wanted to?
What would you say?

Ian (12:53):
I think we've um yeah, I it's a really hard one.
Um I actually fall into thatdefinition of that old white
farmer that was talked aboutearlier on today.
So, which is probably about Idon't know, it'll just take a
rough guess.
70% of the name on title umacross Australia is an old white

(13:15):
man farmer.
So that that's a bigdemographic.
And we've got to rent eventhough they might have totally
other views, we've got tointroduce them into the
conversation in another way, andthat's through leading and
showing and making sure thatthey feel comfortable to come

(13:36):
and observe that field day.
But there was people from allover Australia that had flown
into that field day, and it's umand I know there was people
that probably had didn't havethe right views there, they were
just coming to look at try andfind an agricultural edge so
they can make more money, youknow, reduce the synthetic
fertiliser or something.

(13:57):
But what that did, the power ofthat, but what that did, we
changed the lens of that fieldday, if you remember rightly,
AJ.
And the lens of that field daywas the more connection to
country, and um that was a majorchanging point because we
didn't actually really give ashit what those are what of

(14:17):
someone that might take thewrong thing out of it.
And there was a couple ofpeople that actually I knew that
actually did, and I copped afair bit of flack after it, and
I said, Well, just too bad, youknow, it's just this is where we
are heading, these are theconnections that we need.
So really shame that more ofthem the next day when everyone
had gone home and that weactually took that walk on that

(14:39):
song line.
And there was guys in thatgroup that um, you know, were
pretty oh yeah, right here, youknow, let's have a look.
But Heidi walked us down.
We I think you you did the songline first with the drone to a
degree, and then we followeddown, and there was these big
boulders and rocks, and um Heidisaid, Well, you'd explain it

(15:01):
better than me, but men can'twalk in between those two
boulders, right?
That's not not right.
But so what you got, we had togo to the left of that, and um
and everyone's there, yeah.
Anyway, so we sat back and Isat back and watched.
I know Heidi was watching, andall these brazen guys, not one
was able to.

(15:21):
By the time they got closeenough to it, all turned at the
last minute and walked the otherside of the boulders.
So it was very, very powerfulto them.

AJ (15:30):
You guys started at Wiley when you came back to the wheat
belt from your time in theKimberley, which you know bears
mentioning that it was your timewith First Nations up there
that really flicked your mindsinto a different way of seeing
things.
You come back to the wheatbelt, you score a farm that was
almost laughing stock, bankstelling you you'll never make
it, it's so small it doesn'teven warrant a mention, much
less warrant more capitalinjected.

(15:52):
Here you are today.
Yet you moved from that farmwith one of the properties that
you acquired and have turnedaround.
It's been the story of you now,60,000 plus acres, incredible.
And you stayed at one of thesenew farms.
You created a new home becauseyou felt something different at
this place.
The very place that Heidi turnsup and experiences what she
experienced.

(16:12):
And then through the story thatHeidi was saying, you learned
something about the country andwhat you'd been feeling that you
didn't have the frame ofreference for around the way
that the serpent was actuallypositioned.
Heidi, can I get you to startby talking to that and then you
guys to go on with what itinformed you and what it made

(16:33):
sense of for your new home?

Heidi (16:35):
You're really challenging my um memory here, AJ.
Um I I do remember when when wewere walking there, and you
know, like I I feel theexperience and I'm I'm hearing
what Country's um telling me.
And what I loved about thatspace right near the house was
um country was asking for thisspace to be the space of

(16:58):
welcome.
Like I can and I could almostalready hear my girls um singing
and dancing there, and and thatand that there were people
sitting around um like on firstarrival and just chilling, you
know, like before they go anyfurther.
And it was it was a reallyhappy space, actually.
So um I sh and I share, youknow, my res the responsibility

(17:21):
is that I share this with umDiane and who are living at this
property, uh, which I have, andum hoping actually to take my
girls out there in a few weeksduring the holidays to do
exactly what what we haddiscussed and open that space up
for for everyone's arrival,just to be held by country, held
by spirit, held by all the oldpeople that have been there for

(17:42):
long before any of us, and umand then move forward in the
business that they do.

AJ (17:47):
And over to you guys.
What did it inform you aboutwhat you'd already sensed and
indeed experienced with some ofyour people about how people
were relating to that countryand if this made sense of it for
you?

Di (17:58):
When Heidi um mentioned it about it being a place of
welcome, it just made so muchsense to us.
Um that property where thatthose residences are, we
actually don't own that parcelof land.
We leased that from anotherfamily who's given us a
thousand-year lease becausethey're a family that believe in

(18:19):
longevity.
Um and we actually own theparcel of land that we own
that's got a house is 35kilometres away.
Uh, we farm that land, but ourson and daughter-in-law are
there with their children.
But it just grabbed us theproperty, and then when Heidi
comes and describes the place ofwelcome, and every time we'd
had people come visit the farm,and particularly if they had the

(18:40):
chance to stay at the farm, itwas really quite a
transformative experience, andwe had that time and time again,
people would feel uplifted, andit's it was really the the
land, you know, welcoming peopleand helping them to explore who
they really were.
We've had a lot of younginterns come through and young
people wanting to experience youknow what's going on on the

(19:01):
farm.
But they get there and some ofthem made life change, you know,
career change choices, and umeven Beck herself, when her her
daughter was going out with ouryoung son Matthew, um Beck came
and visited a school teacher,and then she made the decision
after one visit that I'm gonnaget out of teaching, I'm gonna
work on the farm.

AJ (19:22):
It was a few years ago now, eh?

Di (19:23):
Yeah, Beck's been with us five or six years now, and you
think, wow, and but we've hadthat happen so many times, so
really it is it's that place ofwelcome, people feeling safe and
cared for by what's aroundthem, and it has it's just blown
us away.
And you just think, well, we'vejust got to be able to offer
this to more people to comealong and be part of, so that's
how we're trying to worktogether, I guess, ultimately,

(19:46):
and find more ways that thesethings can happen.
I mean, we're all constrainedby, as Heidi was saying, with
time, and you know, we've got tocreate a world, a society where
we've got da da da, you've gotto meet to, you know, cover your
costs and all the rest of it.
But we just want to keep havingthese conversations so we can
perhaps be more creative withhow we can come together, do
more things together, and changethat lens.

(20:08):
Because at the end of the day,we're we're all land stewards,
and I know Anne's pretty strongon this one too.
I mean, we've there is a systemthat you've got to have title
to the land.
The reason we've been trying tobuy up land is so that it
couldn't be taken away all thetime because we had a long
history of leasing and you justhad no security, you couldn't
follow anything through.
And we said, whenever we got achance, at least if our name's

(20:29):
on that title, no one can say,well, you know, you're gone or
you've got to pay more to stayhere or whatever else, and you
just couldn't, you know,maintain any security there.
But now we we have, and we justwant to be able to then yeah,
develop more going forward.

AJ (20:44):
Oh geez, there's so much in that, isn't there?
I almost want to throwimmediately to you, Heidi, to
just pick up that thing aboutbecause I mean everything that
Dies just said, it's going redagain.
Is anyone there?
No one's there to even helpnow.

Heidi (20:55):
Ah Hello, it's trying to shut me up.
You take this up.
I'll keep fighting.

AJ (20:59):
I think this one's solid.
You take that.
Uh I'll take this and I've gotback up if I think.
Are you on?
Yes, okay, I got back up.
Just keep with this because ithelps Matt get his good audio.
So everything that Di justtalked about, you can't like
that doesn't work for you.
So you're in a situation whereyou're you're connecting with
farmers like that.

(21:20):
You're not on the title.
So let's perhaps hold that.
Maybe you want to comment onit, but but let's hold it there
at least as we explore thepracticalities of how you've
gone on to think about what howdo we connect then?

Heidi (21:34):
Okay, so there's a few ways that I'll um I'll look at
this, right?
And um maybe I'll first startwith that um my connection to
Dianean's property is therewhether the Diane Ian even like
it or not.
Not to say they don't, becauseclearly they they are very
welcoming, but um and countrycalled me there.

(21:58):
I don't think Dianean itselfpurely on their own called me
there.
Country called me there, andI'll take my children back.
I'm not Balladong, they're onBalladong country, my children
are balladong, uh as you know,of through their father's line.
So there's a responsibilitythere that just continue.
And that we don't Dianean don'tpay me to go to their place to
do cultural stuff.

(22:19):
I'm not saying we need toregister this site because we
just found this.
None of this is happening.
So I don't want people to knowthat too, just to take the fear
away of maybe some of thethinking about what happens when
nyungars or black fellows stepon your property and find really
interesting things that youalready knew were there, like
grinding stones and artifactsthat you like to pretend maybe
aren't there.
We don't need to be afraid ofhaving these conversations.

(22:41):
Um we currently lease a little10-acre property where we're
doing seed production of ournyungar food and medicine plant,
so that's limited in itscapacity.
We lease that because we can'tafford, or we there's a few
reasons why we can't buy aproperty or even that property,
and that property is one thathas caveats on a little bit like

(23:03):
what we were talking about.
Um Josh was talking aboutbefore.
It's not an ILS seed property,but it has got caveats.
There's big risks in that,also, right?
Like we're planting seeds,seeds take time to produce.
We've we've been broken into 12times, had lots of things
stolen.
We can't upgrade securitybecause we don't have money.
Like I'm a one-income family,so uh and I work and I'm doing a

(23:24):
PhD full-time and I'm runningthis property.
So whatever money I have goesinto that property, and and I'm
not telling you that to feelsorry for me at all because um
what I'm saying is we're doingthat because we want to do that,
and we can start to producesome seed that we want to put
back on country.
Why do I connect with peoplelike Diane is because they have

(23:46):
good soil or better soil thanthe rest of destroyed um mostly
destroyed Nungar country, and umand they have more property to
be able to produce at scale,particularly grasses.
So we talk a lot about, youknow, I I no, I won't say sorry
for how I speak about woods,woodsite and chevron and the
likes, but they that country isnot tree country.

(24:07):
We need to be putting moregrasses back into country.
So my my focus is on grassesand tubers.
Um, and there's only a small ona 10-acre property limited to
what we can produce, so we needto partner with people, but
people who got good soil toproduce good grasses that we
want to eat, no one wants togrow shit like that.
Simple.
Sorry, excuse my French.

(24:27):
So um, so this is why we haveto work together, right?
And and it's not aboutownership, but I talked
yesterday about generationalwealth because yes, we do want
to own our own property, and I'dlove my like my kids.
Um and the succession planningconversation was also happening
yesterday, right?
I've I'm lucky that I've gotthree kids that love being on
country, but they love that indifferent ways because it's part

(24:48):
of their cultural identity, andin and it is also part of their
responsibility.
So I want to be able to leavesomething for them to be able to
carry on with and grandkids,etc.
too.
But there's so many barriers toto getting there.
Instead of feeling sorry forourselves or going, well, we
won't do anything.
I'm just like, oh well shit,let's just put plants in the

(25:09):
ground, we'll do what we can.
If we have to move, we move andwe work with other people that
can help because we can't justkeep doing nothing.
I talk double can, double cango slowly, but we do have to go
slowly to go fast because timeis running out on the crisis of
the current um state of theenvironment.
So we do need to do morequicker, but we just got to do

(25:31):
take the time to have theconversations to do them in the
right way.

AJ (25:34):
And in more in more recent times, your partner Cleve, who
was going to be here today,unfortunately couldn't make it,
is doing some hunting on thefarm as well.

Heidi (25:44):
Yeah, so the blokes go out and um hunt kangaroo at the
moment, that's what they've beenhunting.
That's been important becauseoriginally, when we got our
property, the first thing wewanted to do was set up a little
abattoir for our kangaroo andemu, and then we try to get some
funding.
That was all too difficult, andbecause we didn't have um title
on the land, there was alsocomplications there.

(26:06):
So we did a little bit of pivoton our business model and went,
okay, we'll do some restorationstuff.
So we salvaged some belga orgrass trees and chew it that
would have been bulldozed.
So now we have maybe about six,seven hundred belga ready to go
back into restoration.
So we just looked at how wecould have opportunities to get
some cash flow to fund thethings we wanted to do.
So the meat issue has beenparked, but we still hunt

(26:32):
because we well, I eat kangaroo,that's an and I eat the
kangaroo that comes from theHaggade's because they got grey
kangaroos not as tasty, andthey've got some better
kangaroos on their property inthe northern wheat belt.
Um, and that meat is importantfor us, it's good for our
health, it's what I've alwaysgrown up on.
Can I lovely kangaroos up thatway too?
Um, and it's good yeah, ahealth and diet.

(26:54):
So we do it if we have um wehave been hunting on other
people's properties as well,other farmers who ask to come
and cull the kangaroos.
If I don't know anyone heremanage kangaroos on their
properties at the moment and getone of those commercial people
in, just go shh like like thatway, what do you call machine
gun style?
And then leave them in a bigheap.
Yeah, we don't do that.

(27:15):
We actually um we'll kill thekangaroos, and they are at pest
numbers, right?
So it's a sustainable harvestfor us, means we could take a
lot if we wanted to.
So we can go um and manage thisissue on people's property and
provide food back to ourcommunity and elders.
So we're just not selling it,we just give the food because
you're not meant to sell itbecause it hasn't been processed
through the way that um wadlersor white people want us or

(27:37):
government want us to process,even though we've been eating it
this way for a long time.
I'll break all the rules, don'tmaybe don't record that bit.

AJ (27:49):
Well, this brings to mind what Matthew Evans quipped, is
he even here?
I don't think he is at theconference, you know, that no
one had ever killed, cooked, andeaten an animal in in the same
place on this country before.
And the but the story thatcomes with that, that food is
dangerous, as distinct from foodis medicine, which is
everything you're going at atyour PhD.
It's the it's like well, it'sit's the old story, but

(28:12):
completely flipping this storythat we've been embedded in for
a bit.

Heidi (28:15):
Yeah, and the the other bit is like I had a my first
grand uh son, so my sister's oneof my older sisters' um son's
baby, he's not mine, but stillthat's my grandson.
And so I made him a littlebooker or kangaroo skin that I
um that I told a story for howhe came into this uh earth side

(28:39):
um in a ceremony and made thisfor him and gift it to him in
ceremony.
So the boys eat the food um gohunting for the kangaroo, but
I'm interested in the bookers todo you know, bringing our young
our young people uh um intolife in this way and going
through ceremonies.
So there's this whole thingabout sustainability around how
we use um products, and there'smany things, examples I can

(29:01):
give, but that's kind of one ofthe things men go out hunting,
but I need the kangaroo skins,and the ladies will do what we
want to do with them.
And there's so many ways thatlike I don't do everything, but
if blokes are out getting thiskangaroo and they bring kangaroo
skins back, and then some otherbusiness, young our business
says, Well, I want to use thekangaroo skins to do stuff,
that's kind of what we're tryingto set up at our place is that

(29:22):
other people can have theirbusiness to do things because I
want to do what I want to do,but there's so much opportunity
there.
This whole circular circulareconomy people talk about.
Well, that's really comes fromculture, right?
Sustainability and how we usethings, it's all there.
So there's so manyopportunities when we
collaborate.

AJ (29:37):
Bang, this is the language you guys have used for years,
right?
Inviting people in of allcultures, origins, and so forth.
And indeed, that's what I meanyou alluded to Beck before, that
sort of growing too, which isbrilliant.
More recently, I mean veryrecently, um, the conversation
sort of shifted gear.
I'm thinking with Oral Maguirein particular, just the other
night out of the GovernmentHouse event where you were

(29:58):
honored on Monday night.
And Heidi, you are present.
And I know you guys are sharingsome of this conversation.
And even, you know, we talkabout kangaroos in plague
proportions.
I see Dave Pollock in the frontrow here in the conversations
you've been striking up herebecause the dingo's been, I
mean, remember you saying, Dave,there's no silver bullet with
this stuff, but there'ssomething that goes close, you

(30:19):
know, where you are, and it'sbeen the dingo.
I was hearing from Jeff Powerjust this morning that they're
struggling to manage their landin an appropriate way, and
Michelle McManus here because ofthe plague proportions of ruse
there.
So there's all these elementsof the system, but with you
guys, I'm curious if you can, tothe extent you can talk to
what's hot off the press, in asense, this this challenge of

(30:42):
what next and how to really takethat next step into this
domain.
That's right.
It was Oral and Ian that hadthis yarn.
So Ian, over to you, mate.

Ian (30:53):
Yeah, um, we don't really know what's next, and we don't
want to know not what's next,because then we're planning the
future and we've actually got togo where it takes us.
Um while we were talking aboutcountry, the country that we're
on, we don't choose country,country chooses us.
You know, so we're just thereas custodians to look after that

(31:17):
country, and any country that'scome into our care has actually
come to us, not us go and getit.
So we don't choose totallywhere this is going to go, but
what we do is we choose to worktogether as one.
You know, I couldn't be anymore of a white man than what's

(31:37):
out there.
And um it's about white man andblack man working together in a
combined force, and we don'tknow where it's going to take
us, but all we know is that wehave to have the conversation.
We have to work together.
You know, we talk about we haveOral and I have the dream, and
we'll be working towards this ofmerging our families, you know,

(31:57):
merging in together to take allthis forward.
You know, um, you know, on hisland now that he actually has
got name on, um, he wants thesesheep, the sheep that we run
that's run for so manygenerations on this, and and the
knowledge what to do with thosesheep.
So it's all this sharing, andsomehow we're gonna massage this

(32:20):
through.
And all as I see our role is astogether, Heidi, Orl, all
ourselves, is actually trying toset an example.
Now, not say we're gonna get ittotally right all the time, but
we've just got to work togetherand set that example.
Now, why there's all otherthings and around it that might

(32:40):
argue all around it, but toobad.
We've just got to set thisexample and go forward.
And that example is also why wedo this on country, we have the
conversations at the other endof town as well, as white and
black people that work together.
So um, this is where it's beenreally good.

(33:01):
Um, our governor, her excellenthis excellency Chris Dawson and
Mrs.
Dawson, they have been so onside and connected to bring in
and open opportunities for ustogether to have these op to
have these conversations.

AJ (33:19):
It strikes me so much that there are these benefits that
are so striking both ways.
And they go from learning aboutthe country you've been sitting
on and sensing, but not notknowing in that way that Heidi
brought to the table, to thesethe functional aspects, I
suppose, early functionalaspects of the hunt and
whatever, um, native grasses,but then to this you alluded to

(33:42):
it before, Heidi, and it was I Ireckon it was perhaps even the
paramount theme out of theconference for those who perhaps
weren't there, region WAconference in the couple of days
prior to this, and that was yousaid the new knowledge system
that we need in the new contextthat we're in with bringing the
cultures together.
And that was indeed the themeof well has been the theme of a

(34:03):
bunch of work over the years,and and there was a book that
happened to be at the conferencethat had brought to mind, which
was Songlines, The Power andthe Promise, that headed off the
first knowledge series, volumeof books, outstanding volume of
books, and it had the samepremise to transcend the divide
by bringing our powerful, themost sophisticated knowledge
system, arguably ever, with thepower of the Western knowledge

(34:25):
system, bring it together andcreate, I'll use your words,
Heidi, new knowledge system.
And that the benefits go fromacross the spectrum, if you
like, into the domain thatarguably is the most needed
domain, in fact, essential.
And Walter McGuire said that atthe top of the conference in
his welcome, didn't he?
If we don't do that, yeah, thejuggernaut will continue to go
the way it's going.

(34:46):
But the promise of doing thatis immense.
It really hits me, and I seeyou three sitting here today as
sort of evidence of justbroaching it and I mean merging
families.
I mean this is the starts toecho of the kinship structures
that you've you've been tryingto share with us and that we
would be I mean they alreadythink of us as part of it.

(35:06):
That's why they're they're notbearing arms against us still,
which who could almost we couldunderstand that, no?
If the want for revenge wasstill strong.
But it's not.
And why isn't it?
Because the sense of kinshipmeans you're here now, and Oral
was saying this to me the otherday, you're here now, you're
kin.
And that we would we would befamily like that.

(35:28):
Yeah, that's um unbelievable.
And the promise of that justblows my mind really and excites
me, frankly.
Let's take that juncture to goto you guys.
What would you like to bring inat this point?

Questioner from Kangaroo I (35:40):
Wow, well done, thank you so much,
and very well interviewed aswell.
So uh a great great topic.
Um, something uh that was comecome to me a few years ago.
I was asked by a great mentorif there's one thing that you
could do successfully and notfail at it, what would it be?
I had about ten, but the thingthat was for me was that came to
me, and I want to put it to youguys, is dream time

(36:02):
accreditation was the the wordthat came to me.
Um so my my question to youguys, I guess, is Heidi can't be
everywhere, can't be at everyHaggerty's farm.
So is there something likewe're organic accredited, we're
regen ag accredited, we're allthere's so many accreditations,
and the vision that I had was uma First Nations image or like a

(36:25):
painting on my wool bale,stenciled onto my wool bale, and
it's sold as it can be calledanything, but sold as dream time
accredited wool.
Um and that actually meanswould mean something to me
rather than being organic ordoctor, that's all great, but
that what's the thing that goeseven deeper for Australian
farmers than the soil, thewater, all that sort of stuff.

(36:46):
So is that something that hasbeen talked about or is that
something that's potentiallypossible?

Heidi (36:50):
It's probably not the one thing that I want to do, but
yes, we've been and and I andactually we've had this
conversation too, um, with DianeIan.
But so we heard from Commonlandearlier in the conference,
we've been talking about carbonprojects, we've been talking
about biodiversity and natureand all these things, um, and
what those values and returnsare and how we value country.

(37:11):
I am particularly interested inhighlighting through my
research, well, I already knowthe answer.
The answer is that cultural andspiritual values are missing
from all those systems.
But they don't it so I thinkthere's probably another another
framework or method that weshould use, and it's almost like
if we're if we'recommercialising things, which we
are because we've got thesemarkets, then we look at us at

(37:34):
creating our own system where wecan, you know, like an our own
accu system that captures thecultural and spiritual with
economics, um, social,environmental, right?
Like that that is a market, andI feel like someone needs to be
a first mover and make thathappen.
But there's got to be integrityin that.
So, like, you can't do thatwithout um mob and simple.

(37:55):
And we've got all the expertisealready on the other framework,
so so that's a bit I'mparticularly passionate about,
but I struggle with how do weput uh a price on or a value on
the cultural and spiritual.
So if we start to look atimpact, I think that's where I'm
really interested in.
Um, and we had conversationsaround scaling, and I don't also
don't believe that scaling upis a sign of success.

(38:19):
I think scaling deep is, and tome, what that means is how how
deep the impact is that you'remaking.
So it's a big piece of work.
I'll address a little bit of inmy research, and other people
are kind of working on thingslike that too.
Um, so I think there's greatopportunity there.
It has to have integrity andit's got to be led by mob.
And that's my view.
But I'd love to see thathappening.

(38:40):
And we and we know thatAboriginal premiums are what
40-something per cent, so it'sworth doing, but it's got to be
done properly.

AJ (38:47):
Soy.

Question from Sadie Chrestma (38:49):
Um Ian, you said you don't have
plans, which is something thatMatthew and I can relate to.
Um but dreams.
Uh Di, Heidi, Ian, uh, do youhave a a a dream of where these
conversations might take you?
And you can, you know,interpret the word dream as
widely or as narrowly as youyou'd like.

Di (39:09):
Yeah, we certainly have lots of dreams, Sadie, and um
fortunately some parts just cometogether nicely, and other ones
you've just got to keep talkingand dreaming and um sharing, I
guess.
We have a magnificent landscapeout there, as everyone here
would recognise.
It's got so much opportunity,so much that we can, you know,

(39:32):
gain from it and have joy from,but the diversity of foods and
so forth.
I mean, w we've simplified inyou know our industrial farming
practices that what's recognisedas being of value out of that
landscape for such a long periodof time, and you think that's
just been crazy.
We've narrowed it down, we'venarrowed down our health
outcomes, our cultural outcomes,our societal outcomes.

(39:54):
You know, let's it's hard, butwe're gonna have to flip it on
its head.
But the the country's there todo it, um, the people and the
desire there to do it.
We're just gonna overcome someof those constraints that we've
put around ourselves, like we'resaying with land ownership and
all those kind of things, um,some of the constraints we've
placed on all the requirementswe expect to have when you

(40:18):
actually look, we can have avery simplified life and just be
nourished by the food, thelandscape, and the relationships
we have is actually reallyenough.
But we've sort of been led downa path of technology and you
know the next shiny thing thatwe all must have, which is all
load of bunkum.
But anyway, we're getting thereand we're having more and more,

(40:38):
you know, wonderfulrelationships developing along
the way, and I think they'rejust going to continue to emerge
and and grow.
But yeah, we've certainly gotlots of great ideas and desires
to have more people on country,more housing, more diversity of
where people's passions are.
Just do it, whether you're anartist or a writer or whatever
you are, that there's space foryou to be part of that and well

(41:01):
fed by people that can lookafter the food if that's their
passion, but then they supportthe whole crew that's out there,
that we all look out for eachother and you know, whichever
way it be, but we bring enoughto keep our community going and
enjoy.

AJ (41:15):
You know, Josh was talking this morning about the figures
of Aboriginal folk who whoactually are getting into ag in
numbers, but they don't last,and that there's suspected
racial-oriented barriers thereand and cultures.
But it does make you think morepeople on country, you know,
Oral was saying tons more peopleon country and they want to be

(41:35):
there, the young are ready togo, so the opportunity's
staggering.
But there comes a story withthat again, too, right?
Like labour intensivity is whatwe've tried to avoid and get
out of.
But what about we do have thehundreds of wadgery back on
woolen and if they want to bethere?
And and I mean, some this iswhat some of what Josh is
telling us.

(41:56):
And then, you know, oral evencrypt, maybe we don't even need
one of your tractors anymore ifit gets to a certain point.
We've got people doing it.
But the a story around I mean,if we're talking about
connection, we're talking aboutlabour intensivity, the the
hated term, but that's now thethe term we've got to reown.
Ian or Heidi, do you want to gonext?

Ian (42:17):
Well, because we're going exactly the opposite of labour
intensivity, you know, with allthe AI and all the things that
we're doing these days, youknow, we're um we're not even
doing our own measurements, youknow, it's all coming from the
satellite.
And as we know, anyone thatknows about country and natural
country, the satellite reads ita fair bit wrong.
You know, some of the nativegrasses it doesn't even pick up.

(42:39):
So um that's why to bringpeople on country and and look
at things in that completelydifferent lens is so important.
Probably another dream thatDaya and I have, while we do
everything on country, it's thisfinancial side as well, this
broken financial system, theother, the other side of town.

(43:01):
And um we need to talk withcombined language to change that
sector because while thatsector is still running rampant
doing what it's doing, we'renever gonna get it have the
access of finance in time to dowhat we do.
The sheer fact is in the worldwhat we've got today, everything

(43:24):
costs money.
You know, we'd um we'd we tookon a 30,000 acre bought,
purchased a 30,000 acre parcelof land in 2023.
And the reason why we purchasedthat, didn't really want to, I
did want to, but um the reasonwhy we purchased that it'd all
be into monoculture trees rightnow.
And we thought, well that's nothappening, so someone has to

(43:44):
stop that from happening.
So we put our hand up andpurchase it.
She fact is we pay between 8and 9% interest, and you can
imagine what the price tag of30,000 acres was for the
pleasure of that, you know, ofdoing that, you know.
So, and that then puts pressureon even just being able to pay
the interest bill.
So lo and behold, at 2023,Murphy's Law, whenever that

(44:08):
happens, 84 mil rainfall.
So puts a fair bit of pressureon things.
Hit 2024, another 18,000 acrescomes up.
Now, this 18,000 acres is avery significant parcel of land
bordering on us surrounding alake system with some very

(44:29):
cultural significant sites onthis.
You know, even I know, and oneof the major granite outcrops is
um truly needs to be lookedafter.
We thought, how do we we wecan't let this go go back the
wrong way?
And um over a two-year period,which is only just finished off
now, it was early 24, um, wetried really, really hard to

(44:53):
actually secure.
We looked at all options, welooked at the aim was to do it
joint First Nations with us, doa joint thing, even put the land
in commons, do some way tosecure that title so it could
stay there for perpetuity, so wecould utilize that land
combined to do whatever we do.

(45:15):
And um, because we'd actuallystretched our limits to being,
you know, the old bank manageris not that happily of an um
kind when I go and knock on thedoor and say, hey guys, I need
another one, 18,000 acres tobuy, and you know, um it wasn't
going to happen.
So we tried everywhere.
Private institutions, you know,that have all the talk about,

(45:35):
you know, we're into this kindof lending and rah-rah rah.
At the end of the day, what awhen it came down to signing on
a bottom line, not one of themhad the gumption from big
investment firms, superannuationfunds to banks to a whole lot,
it just was not there.

(45:55):
Highly disappointing.
First Nations, proven farmers,significant sites, projections
of where it would be foreconomic return as well by
combining the two.
No one had the balls.
Nowhere.
Not only just in Australia, butglobally.
We have a problem.

(46:17):
How are we ever going to getpeople with we had backing to do
this, you know, to follow us ofwhat the resources we've got
behind us.
And when you get other youngerpeople that I've seen here today
that actually want to get inthis space, whether it be white
or first nations, we've got aproblem, we need to actually
sort that out.
So that's one of our goals isto have those conversations in

(46:38):
the right rooms.

AJ (46:40):
We might go on with that a bit this afternoon when we
resume a conversation about whatit's like being West
Australians of the Year andfarmers.
Heidi?

Heidi (46:50):
I got emotional when I heard the question, so I was
trying to like.
I'm glad, we're very gratefulthat um I was distracted, and
I'm trying hoping I don't getemotional again.
Oh, it's already happening, Ican feel it.
So I'm gonna try not to look.
Anyway, um look, probably thebiggest driver.
Oh shit, I really was notintending this.
It's been a big three weeks.
Um the biggest driver for me ineverything that I do is to have

(47:15):
healthy kids into the future,including my own.
Um, and they've all had theirsetbacks, my kids and others
that I take out on country.
What I see in, and I've workedpolice child protection
everywhere, right?
Like I've been around so manyweird spaces.
Um where I see our kidsstrongest and where I see us,

(47:37):
like myself strongest and otherpeople strongest, is on country.
And anywhere on country.
That's why I'm particularlypassionate about um working with
farmers to heal country becauseI know the benefits of healing
our people.
I've had uh drug addicts justcome and stay on our place just
to detox.
Young kids who for the firsttime seeing live animals or Nan

(48:00):
or Auntie, you know, like I feelso good when I'm here, and they
and they live 10 minutes, 20minutes away from our place but
never been bushed before.
Um, you know, we know the stateof the health of our people
emotionally, physically, um andand country.
So, like my dream is that Itook that that story you talked

(48:21):
about with the the dickhead atthe station with the firearm,
that when I took my pop out oncountry, first place you he ever
worked, and they and and wewere threatened on exit.
Um my pop fought for countryfor a very long time, he died
two years ago, hasn't been ableto see the fruition of our
native title claim in UpperGascoyne.
Here I am, and now 46, havingthe same conversations that he

(48:44):
was having, he's 72 when hepassed.
My other pop who's got uhretired from mustering, he's 92
now, and he got retired fromRockley Station a couple years
ago because he's too old tomuster, but he will still be on
the back of a horse and no onewill tell him otherwise.
It's like we can we're havinggenerations of the same
conversations and the samegoodwill, the same relationships

(49:05):
that are imparted on ourtraditional lands that we just
want to be part of, and we'renot seeing the progress.
My kids are still educated withthe crap education that I had,
where people told me that wewere taken into care because our
parents, you know, our familiesdidn't love us, when in actual
fact it was the White Australiapolicy that was the reason why
we were they were taken intocare.

(49:26):
So, my wish or dream is that mykids and my grandkids actually
have a healthier life than I do,that they don't have to keep
having these conversations andthe feeling that um constant
stress and impact on theiremotional well-being, that they
just get to live and be inharmony that we used to have

(49:47):
before.
I'm so sorry for um beingemotional.
But it's like it does, it takesa toll, and I just don't want
that on them.
You know, that's why I pushhard today to honour the legacy
of my old people, but also toreduce the burden on my own kids
and the next generation.
And we all have a collectiveresponsibility towards that.

(50:08):
Don't matter who you are, whatcolour you are, where you come
from.
Like that's all ourresponsibility for humanity and
for country.
Big wish, but shit, it's gottahappen, right?
Because I just don't thinkthere's another I don't think
there's another answer, it'sjust what we've got to do
because it's the right thing todo.
I think Joshua talked aboutthat before.

AJ (50:38):
Thanks, Heidi.
You know, out of theconference, we ended that
conference too in Perth withwhat's a commitment each of each
of us are gonna take forward.
I'm seeing more tears outthere, and it's hard making it
harder for me.
Um what's a commitment each ofus?
It can be small even, but whatif we all do something that we
commit to out of this alongthese lines, just keep shifting

(51:01):
that to rate.
Let this be the generation.
Yeah, where your daughtersdon't have to have that
conversation.
Yeah, binder that dream.
All right.
Anyone else want to?
Yeah, great.
One and two.
Um have we got a Roma?
Is Tegan still here?
Yeah, great.
Thank you.

Comment from Barry Gree (51:16):
Thanks, Heidi and Ian and Di.
Um, the things you're sayingabout your kids, I have the same
concern for my grandkids.
This corporatization ofeverything that's trashing
Australian values.
I I don't know what the answeris, but it all starts with a
conversation, so I guess that'sthat's what we're at, and that's
why these sort of things are soimportant.
I don't know if you want tomake any response to that.

Comment from Virginia Kellehe (51:41):
I just first of all wanted to say
thank you.
It's amazing, and Heidi, yeah,the emotion can definitely feel
that.
Um, and that I was at Regen WA,I'm from Queensland, and my I
will try and keep my pledge,especially after today.
And I blocked Matt up yesterdayafternoon and said, Can you

(52:02):
come to Queensland with your mumand dad?
And Heidi, I've already spokento you.
Um I work with a lot of smallparcel landholders for an NRM,
and we have TOs that work withus as well.
So I just want to go back andyou know try and do my bit to
help where I can to spread thegood word as well.
But I just wanted to say thankyou from the bottom of my heart,

(52:24):
and I'm on country as well, sowe'll look after it the best way
we can.
And yeah, thank you.

AJ (52:31):
Thank you.
Anyone else?
All right, I'm gonna take thisjuncture to flip to anyone here
on the back of everything we'veheard, where where we sit right
now, what's come to mind?

Ian (52:41):
Well, I think um we've got tremendous hope.
You know, I I I try and steereveryone out of a negative,
everyone we we try to go back tothe negative, and there's a big
negative there, but the onlyway we go forward is with hope.
And you know, put that in yourheart and really go forward, you
know, strive to go forwardbecause you know you never go

(53:03):
forward if you're always lookingback over your shoulder.
So it's very hard, but we wehave to be positive, open up the
collaboration and theconversation, and through every
way we can, in every little bitwhere we can, we we've got to go
forward from now on.

Di (53:19):
Yeah, I think absolutely, and um the evidence over the
past week of sharing and caringhas really been, you know,
really obvious.
Um desire with triggering offthe nourish event in Perth was
exactly about that becauseWednesday night uh at the
campfield adjacent to PerthStadium.

AJ (53:37):
Yeah, and two to three hundred people there.

Di (53:40):
Yes, it was about sharing food off landscape, but
everything, you know, it wasjust a starting point, but we're
hoping to make it a an annualevent and just widen the
participation amongst that frompeople that are you know what
they're able to create andenjoy, you know, from being on
country and and sharing thosethings, what all sorts of foods

(54:00):
or whatever it might be orculture it might be.
Um, because that's what's gonnanourish us all, and whether it
be mentally, physically, or as acommunity, and the excitement
was there was was such a diverserange of people from the
community there, and I thinkwe've just got to continue doing
that, do these things moreoften in all sorts of different
ways.

(54:20):
Um, and I think we've got areally great chance in, and and
as Heise's saying, the healthfor our future, our young
people.
I mean, that's first in ourmind, um, getting the children
born in a healthier way.
We've got to get the toxins outof our environment, we've got
to get the food and theirparents not stressed during
pregnancy or preconception sothat the parents are at their

(54:44):
optimum to be able to pass onthe best opportunity for an
unborn child.
And so that's that's what we'reall about at the end of the
day.

AJ (54:52):
Well, speaking of coming together and all that, just
before you go, Heidi, Di, whydon't you mention briefly the
alliance that you launched atGovernment House this week?

Di (55:01):
Yeah, I mean that it's been a big week.
Um yeah.
So Monday we did launch theAlliance of the Human and
Planetary Health.
Um we're gonna tick off, andthere's been some amazing people
that have put their hand upalready to be wanting to be part
of that, um, including somewonderful researchers um from
even from the US.

(55:22):
Um, and I think it's just gonnabe a a collaboration of sharing
ideas.
There's a lot of wonderfulmedical researchers out there
doing some fantastic stuff, butthere's not enough
cross-pollination across all thedifferent disciplines and
things, and that's the wholepoint.
People that genuinely care tobe able to share in a that
really um, you know, environmentwhere anyone can say whatever

(55:46):
they're doing, but they might beable to learn from someone in a
field completely unrelated,like a a farmer or a First
Nations land carer.
This is what we see.
How does that relate to thework you're doing, you know,
when you're studying microbiomeand you know, prevention of MND
or whatever else it might be?
Um, all those things, so that'swhat we're kicking off in

(56:09):
November.

AJ (56:11):
You'll hear more about it.
Heidi, bring us home.

Heidi (56:15):
You'll kill the mood again.
Um I I think probab what'sreally landing for me the most
in this week, like I think aboutthis week, uh the 12 days I
just had in Sri Lanka, thatGlobal Food Um Sovereignty Forum
and this whole discussion isthat that I feel like for the
most part we've been trying toaddress these these this issue
or the challenges that are facedin front of us within the

(56:36):
industry that we sit in.
Um but we need to startbreaking those silos down, and I
think so it's good that thisweek we've had a bit broader
discussions, but even at uhRegen WA we we didn't have the
people present in the room.
Like we kind of need thosepeople like Woodside, Rio,
Chevron, the Fishers, the theForest, everyone else, right,

(56:58):
together to have conversationsaround how we move forward.
We had a bit of that in um SriLanka, which was good.
But and I think the reason wehad that in Sri Lanka was
because it was a it was apolitical and people movement.
Whereas here we're just tryingto work out how do we survive
and how do we respond to peopletrying to push us off country to
put in off uh gammon offsetprograms or whatever it is

(57:20):
that's happening.
So so what I'm loving is thatI'm feeling that there is this
movement, and and that is thiscollective impact that in our
our Perth and our AM and havebeen trying to build, or we have
been building the last fewyears, of breaking down,
crossing those industries andstarting to collaborate because
at the end of the day we need tolook after our sea country and
this country and all ourwaterways and everything else,

(57:42):
and we we've got to work bettertogether um to make all of that
stuff happen and have country beproductive in the sense that
people want, but also uh healingit at the same time.

AJ (57:53):
Thanks, Heidi.
Please thank Heidi, Di and Ian.
Thank you very much for that.
Thank you again to the team atGrounded for generously
providing that recording, and ofcourse to you subscribing
listeners for making the episodepossible.

(58:13):
This week, special thanks tothe wonderful Craig Wilson,
Jordan Cargill, Jen West, ScottFairbanks, Bronwen Morgan, Chris
Dowling, and Dianne Haggerty.
Thank you so so much fornotching up your fourth
anniversary of support.
If you'd like to join us, bepart of that great community,
get some exclusive stuff, andhelp keep the show going, please

(58:35):
do by heading to the website orthe show notes and following
the prompts.
Grounded 2026 will be headingto the Otways of Victoria in
April.
I hope to see you there.
And the Grounded Podcast willalso launch soon, with all their
recordings to date.
If you'd like to see that imageof the Waygl on Heidi's first
visit to the Haggerty Farm, youcan find it on the webpage for

(58:57):
episode 143, when the story wasfirst told in the shearing shed
after lunch on that field day.
And you can find a few photosfrom today's panel conversation
on the website too, plus BrennanQuinlan's wonderful
illustration of festivalproceedings.
See if you can spot where thispanel turns up.
The music you're hearing isRegeneration by Amelia

(59:20):
Barden.