March 27, 2025 • 22 mins
Hi everyone, and welcome back to TV Reload!
Thank you for clicking or downloading today’s episode, featuring Karin, who absolutely deserves the chance to unpack her 'Final Tribal Council experience' on Australian Survivor: Brains vs. Brawn 2.
Love her moves or not, Karin’s decisions at Tribal Council gave us an unforgettable TV moment. I was surprised to hear how much trolling she’s received for what some say, was a self-sabotaging play at the end. But let’s not forget—this is a TV show, and the boldest players give us the best moments of the season! That’s why I’m thrilled Karin is here to share her side of the story.
- In this episode, Karin breaks down exactly what was going through her mind as she took a high-stakes gamble in Week 6
- Karin will share her thoughts on the remaining players in the competition and drop some excellent exclusives along the way.
- I’ll ask Karin about the reception she received at the Jury Villa and get her take on her biggest moves in the game.
- Plus, we’ll find out which castaways have become her lifelong friends—and, of course, why she told Myles to shut his legs!
There’s so much to discuss, with plenty of behind-the-scenes revelations. So sit back, relax, and let’s dive into the incredible world of Australian Survivor, which returns this Sunday night!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's in the news today, but it was actually on
TV Reload.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
The podcast last week.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Thereby, Hey guys, welcome back to TV Reload. I want
to thank you for clicking and downloading on today's episode
with Karen, who absolutely deserves the chance to unpack that
final Tribal Council experience on a strained Survivor brands versus
Broad two. Love her moves or not, Karen's decision to
tribal Council gave us an unforgettable TV moment. I was
(00:23):
surprised to hear how much trolling she's received for what
some may say was a self sabotaging play at the end.
But let's not forget this is a TV show and
the boldest players give us the best moments of the season,
and that is why I'm thrilled that Karen is here
to share her side of the story. In this episode,
Karen breaks down exactly what was going through her mind
(00:45):
as she took a high stakes gamble in week six.
Karen will share her thoughts on the remaining players, all
of them left in the competition, and drop some excellent
exclusives along the way. I'll ask Karen about the reception
she received at the jury of Villa and get her
takes on some of the biggest moves that she made
in the game. Plus, we will find out which castaways
(01:06):
have become her lifelong friends, and of course, why she
told Miles to shut his legs. There's actually so much
to discuss, with plenty of behind the scenes revelations, So
sit back, relax, and let's dive into the incredible world
of a Strained Survivor, which returns this Sunday night on
Network ten. I'm excited to talk to you. How are
(01:28):
you feeling this morning.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
I've just finished a night sift, so tie, But yeah,
I know I've had you know, what's it?
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Golly? When did I get edited out last night? Night before?
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yeah, I've had thirty six hours of you know, unadulted
a week time to contend with my demons.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
What do you mean your demons? I mean it was
an epic way to leave the show and everyone's going
to remember you forever.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Oh yeah no.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
But by demons, I mean all of like the keyboard
mafia calling me more on Those are the demons, amen.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Current you know who this people are. Those people are
a picture of a cat or a crow. They can't
do these shows. They couldn't apply. They can't come for you, mate.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Oh, like this is what happens when it's like three
am and you're bored and you're waiting for an X
ray to happen, and you're like I was read Reddit
and you're like, no, don't read readit, but not like yeah,
but no, it's all good.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Nah, I feel good better gooder. Now there you go.
You feel gooder, yeah, gooder better.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
You were so good on this show, though, Like I
just thought you were so confident, and you're so well spoken,
and you were so articulate. And I walked away thinking,
even though people will come for you with the way
that you came out of this show, I think you're
a very smart lady.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
I like to think so too.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
I think a large percentage of the time I'm quite smart,
am I sort of like boneheaded and stubborn, absolutely, But
like I think, like the baseline IQ sort of subdues
the boneheaded stubbornness, but sometimes it comes out.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
We can't blame we can't be perfect all the time.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Paully said something to me about it, because I spoke
to Paulli after yourope and he was like, I know
people are going to say something about the way in
which current came out of the show. Any sitting on
their couch at home understand how tired, how hungry, and
how I can't over the turn of phrase that he used.
But sort of like you are at the wick, you know,
like you are not operating like a person who's just
(03:13):
ordered a pizza and it's having a glass of wine
watching an aeron twenty minutes of television.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
That's the thing.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
So like, even sort of the information I got was
pretty much a minute thirty seconds into like going to tribal,
and then you're just sort of going, okay, cool, these
are the numbers. Wait a minute, she said, these are
still one of the bizarre. That means they're on this
side of the split. And then you get this sort
of like split fatigue, and then you're going, Okay, who
(03:39):
likes me? Who doesn't like me?
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Great? What am I going to do? How do I
do this?
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Crap, I can't talk to anyone now because we're on
the way to tribal. Okay, maybe you should just shut up.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Maybe it's like.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Just just keep your pie hole shut. And I was like, well, like,
then if I keep my pie hole shut, I'll go
to the next round. Then I have to grovel and
beg and like, I'm.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
So sorry, aj My was ha ha ha. I'm back again.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Please love me, even though I've you know, essentially ran
a smear campaign against you for the last fourteen days.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
I'm sorry, I'll change.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
I was watching it, but I've done competition reality, so
I know what it's like. And I think that when
you're very stressed in those environments, things can change in
a minute, and so it's very easy to let your
emotions get the better of you. And in some other
competition reality letting the emotions get the better of you works.
But for this game and those people out there that
(04:31):
study this game, they think you can't be emotional the
way that you were. But I mean it could have
very easily worked. I mean that's what Russian rule it is, right.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Yeah, well, I mean that was like, so I got
my read on that situation wrong in two parts. Like
I understand that in hindsight, I didn't realize how close
Kaylen was to ag like and that's a credit to Kaylen.
Klein and I had a very very good relationship in
the game.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Wasn't shown very well. We had a very good relationship.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
We come from sort of similar sporting backgrounds, We sort
of understand each other in a similar way as well.
And I knew it would be hard to switch him on,
but like I figured a knee jerk event was the
only way to kip him over the age.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
But I didn't realize how.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Entrenched he was with AJ and like it didn't make
sense for Kristen and Logan to turn like it did
not make sense given that Kristen was someone that I'd
been protecting since Tribe Swap when it came down to
like the hostage situations.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
And then like.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Zara had built such a close relationship with PD, PD
and I would have many chats across the map in
TRIBESWAP as well, so I'd already built a relationship in
that regard Logan, I've been sort of saving since the
start in like Brain's one point zero, So it didn't
really make sense for them to sort of put themselves
onto a bottom of an already existing majority, like, which
(05:54):
is why it sort of just went, hey, I've like
I've given you zero like risk to you in this point,
Like we can hit anyone, we hit anyone, I'm going
to get like we'll give you an options. Because Miles
seems to be the lowest hanging fruit that everyone wants
to go for.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
We can go there.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
We can just hit aj and if he has an idol,
it doesn't really matter because you still get me out
in the process.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
So like zero cost you.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
I was hoping that it would sort of tickle the
resume building side of their brains a little bit, to
be like, you know, you're currently up against huge game
players who are throwing wild moves back, left, right, and center,
and now you've got an opportunity to put yourself into
one and potentially turn the hierarchy in the game.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Take it, Take it.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
I mean Kristin tried to help you, and I think
that had Kristen's advice to you, if you just let
that wash over you and just sort of changed a
few decisions, you might have still been in the competition.
But I also worry at this point for everyone that's
left that's not Miles, who has a resume that everyone
is going to vote for when we get to jury.
(06:58):
That's what I want to know at this point.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Again, it's really important.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
I mean, like you can so currently in the game,
there are people that can pitch a.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Very strong jury pitch.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
AJ can build an incredible jury pitch from what he's done, Yes,
does it look like he's a bit chaotic, but he
still managed to escape multiple attents at him, and.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
He can pitch.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
He's had the most audacious plan, which you know we
were all part of, to take hostages, and he still
pro survived to merge. He's still managed to sort of
band a loyal army around him that are very reluctant
to vote against them even when it's in their best interests.
Miles has an incredible resume, which which is evident, and
he's stacking up votes left, right, and center. We're looking
at like quite possibly record breaking numbers for Miles at
(07:42):
this point.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
And the weird thing is that I didn't like him
to start with. I didn't enjoy him on the show
for so long, and now he's been around for so
long and he's pulled so many moves. I'm starting to
think that he's queen beat, do you know what I mean? Like,
it's so weird.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
It's the weird thing about.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Miles is like, yeah, he's like it's so frontal when
it comes to how he expresses himself, and it comes
off across incredibly.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Annoying at the start, and you're like, oh my god.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
But then you get to the crux of who Miles
is and it's actually quite endearing, hilarious, and then like
the word vomit you get sometimes when he goes off
on a tangent is hilarious and also like great white noise.
I remember asking him about I don't know. We were
looking at the stars and then I got like twenty
minutes of string theory and whether a photon transmits as
(08:29):
a wave or a particle, and I went, Miles, it's
two am.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
It's two am. I don't know what time it is,
but it feels like I've been talking to you forever.
I literally, Yeah, was it you that told him to
keep his legs shut? At one point I thought that
was iconic. It was like Marshall Heines on Australian Idol
years ago. She was like, listen, honey, put your legs together.
Was that you?
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Yeah? That was very Miles legs.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Them together, you know, And it's not something that we
really hear often with people saying that to men. But
do you know what one of my pet peeves is
men that men spread? Do you know what I mean,
Like men that sit there with their legs really spread.
I'm always like, put that away. I don't know if
you watch enough television or was watch as much as
I do, but hay much Blake did it on Celebrity
goggle Box and I got five minutes into the show
(09:12):
and I was like, no, that's not it.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
You're taking far too much space less damn legs.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
What made you reluctant to join rejoin the graduates? Like
I felt like you you didn't want to do.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
That, Like the graduates started because we were so tired
of all of it was really nice at the start
because we were just communicating. We were making all these
plans and we would make like real brash decisions, but
it was all like a good amount of communication.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
For example, like Asian.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
And I had raging insomnia at the start of you know,
when we were on Brains and it was literally just
the two of us talking of four hours because we
couldn't go to sleep. And then you tack in miles
to the conversation later on and we're like, oh, great,
were oh I think quite similar.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
This is really fun.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
All of those people are way smarter than me, Like
you're all above my pay grade.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
They're ridiculously smart, Like oh my god, like what are you?
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Oh yeah, sure add me to the list.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
But like, I think the relationship breakdown was definitely like
AJ and I like at the start we would communicate
really well, and then he would sort of get this
like wild idea and I'd go, no, AJ, that's not
going to work because X, Y Z number exists, or
how do you know, because I'm working with those numbers,
you're not going to get them. And he's going, Okay, no,
actually I can get them, and i'ment, no, you can't,
(10:34):
Please don't do that, and then he would go do it,
and I went, I told you so. I literally took
it like this was like you know him. When he
wanted to get out Logan, he came to me and
I said, AJ, you don't have the numbers.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Well, how do you know?
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Because I'm working with all four of the girls that
you want to work with, they are not going to
turn Oh but I can do it. Okay, go do it.
Then comes back I can't do it. I'm like, great,
now you've added yourself. Now I've got to save your
ass by giving this like Kokammy story to Logan and
be like, oh, I.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Don't know, like I've not heard this at all. He's
not going.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
For you, except that that's all he's been talking about
and wrote a novel about it.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Yeah, And then like we get to the next stage
where Miles and I had a really good working relationship
and the graduates had like, you know, almost seventy five
percent formed, where Miles was like, great, I'm going to
give you all of the information that's going from this
bomb squad. So when AJ pulled this out of hat,
I already knew it existed, and I'm like, well, Miles
gave me all this information. You didn't who I've been
(11:31):
talking to since like our twenty four of this game.
It's okay, okay, cool, We're stacking more information. Then we
get to tribe swap and I'm like, you're very like
the hostage plan was just a conversation where Agent I
went who do you want to get rid of? And
both of us said the same names together and we
went great. And then I said, okay, what if we
(11:52):
offer up saving Ursula as like a like a peace
offering to the likes of PD. And then AJ was like, well,
why don't we just like reverse it? Make hold them
hostage and then do it. And I'm like, well that
sounds kind of comes, sounds kind of fun. All right, cool,
let's do it, but let's like, let's maybe just set
the scene a bit, create a bit of mood lighting,
fake thunder, and then do it as opposed to just
(12:12):
like hauling off straight in there being like I'm walking
them off a plank and I'm like, okay, now everyone's mad.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Okay, And then like.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
You'd get like filter fed bits of information, being like, man,
I had this conversation with you, and now I'm getting
like five different versions of you creating this back so
like and then I'm stubborn and petty, and sometimes if
I see an opportunity to be stubborn and petty, I'm
gonna take it, just because that's who I am as
a person. Like I don't like like at that point,
(12:41):
it was just pissing off AJ, because I could piss
off AJ and he would be just mad at me
because it's irrational and logical, and he'd just be like.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
Why are you doing this.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
I'm like, well, I'm doing it because it's funny. He's
like yeah, but I don't get it.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
I'm like and like yeah, of course, like you know,
like you don't like you can.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Tell people you have an idol and whatever, but like
you know, I was like, cool, lo, I was hanging fruit.
I'm going to grab onto this and keep hanging onto
this because nah. But yeah, maybe maybe that was sort
of like my downfall as well. But yeah, that's why
I like the graduates was like such a finnicky position
for me, because I was just like, I don't know
if I can trust you enough anymore. And as much
as you say all these things to me, I see
(13:17):
you forming these relationships with like Kate and Morgan. I
see you going to other people like you're creating an
escape route, and like, understandably.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
So was I.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
So if you're escaping everyone exactly, I'm like, you're creating
a life raft out of the graduates. I'm creating a
life raft out of the red graduates. So ipso facto,
this is just convenience.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Now.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
You know what's interesting as well is that I feel
like with Kaylin and Kristen, they're like house pets that
have now become like a problem. You know, when you
go to people's houses and you realize that the pets
are at the top of the food chain. You're like,
how has this happened? He's a golden retriever and she's
a kitten, like and they're somehow now contenders to win.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
It's Kaitlyn's game has been really understated.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
To be honest, like until I saw well, like the
last episode where he's actively telling Jlpeter not tell us
how far he was ahead of, you know, in the
puzzle challenge, Like you know, Miles and I had the
chat and we were like, I thought he was about
a challenge like path puzzles we took like twenty five
minutes because you know, I was like, I know how
long I took to throw that down like sandbag, So I.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Was like, why is he taking so long to finish
this stupid puzzle?
Speaker 2 (14:22):
But now that was like an absolutely calculated move, and
you're like, oh, well.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Damn Klen okay.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
But then obviously, like when we were in Brains one
point oh and Tribes what, there were moments where Klen
would literally go out for a snorkel when we were
doing Stratchat like would just be like no, no, no,
you guys, give me a name and then just go
off into the ocean and we're going But oh, okay,
whether that's sort of like cool, you know, like absolute
(14:48):
confidence and credit to him if you're like, I am
so confident in my social ability, I do not even
need to go into a stratchat.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
I don't need it. I'm that comfortable.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
What's interesting as well to me is about what you
accuse people of doing in this game as a negative
is something that everyone does by nature. I think, you know,
accusing aj of changing plans, but you were changing plans
as well, just about labeling people, I think and hoping
that those labels don't fall on you.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
I guess, yeah, no, absolutely, and it's completely contradictory. Like
the reason like I'm getting so upset is because, like
I'm trying to counter all of the moves that he's making, and.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
It's very hard to predict when he keeps changing things,
so I can't counter them. So I'm say, oh my god.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Just do something in a straight line so I can
actually mounted like a defense to this. In the same
way that you know, when Paul got voted out, like
you just have a sneaky suspicion, and which I did.
I was like, Myles is going to try something, and
Kristen's going to be the target because he doesn't want
us dragging someone to the end. He wants it to
be like this epic battle royality the end. That's what
(15:48):
Miles and AJ want. He doesn't want Christen to get dragged.
And I was like, all right, cool, you're going to
target Kristen. Okay, okay, okay, but's this is so frustrating. Okay, great,
whose numbers are you going to get xyz? Okay, we
need to pitch this. Your brain hurts and keep hurting
as well. And yeah, so of course, like, yeah, cool,
call me a hypocrite. Yeah cool, I won't plan ABC,
(16:08):
but I will also do you know, be one point
five and be three point four. But that's just it.
And at that point I was ready to run any
smear campaign against Aj at that you.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Know you're on the jury. Yeah, it's time to forget
about the way in which your game sort of fell
apart and start now admiring people for the way in
which they destroyed you.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Absolutely, and like AJ is an incredible adversary. The reason,
like I had so much fun being irritated at him
was it was just great to just throw stuff at
him and you'd be like, a right, cool, great, follow
that back and you're like, oh damn, he's good again,
and it's fun, Like mil is fun to watch as well,
and like that's why the jury is so great because
you just get to watch it all unfold and go
(16:48):
this is fantastic or oh my god, Karen's flaming out, idiot.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
The looks on everyone's face is Paully looks really bitchy
at that jury, Like I don't know what was going on?
Do you reckon that they cut up some really bitchy
cups of him to make him look like that, Like
he looked really mad, I know.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
But he's so hot when he looks mad.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
I call him sexy Jafar. How does that work for you? Yes?
Speaker 3 (17:11):
Or like you know Scarf from Lion King, like really the.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Same person I didn't even like where we gives me
like really.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Hot in a kind of angry, sadistic way, and you're like,
why am I attracted to you right now? I did
not want to be You're mad at me, but like
I kind of like it.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
I like it out of time, so like I've really
got to wrap things up. But I ask everyone at
the end of the podcast, like what is something from
behind the scenes and I think at this point not
everyone watches the clip that we get to see of
you returning to the jury. So I guess a good
question of behind the scenes for a lot of people
would be what's happening when you get there? What was
the dynamic? Like when you were reunited with Paulie.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
And Laura, Like, oh, I was like high key stressed
because I went, oh, god, Laura's going to like put
a hex on me, and like Paulie's gonna, I don't know,
spit into my wine or whatever.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
And they just gave me straight up.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Poker face as I sort of like what you know
that mean where you're like, hey, guys, how you doing
that one? And then it was just stone cold and
then like Laura broke immediately, and then all I could
like my favorite food like is carbonara and it was
in front of me and I could not get more
than like three fork falls in because like Laura was like, no,
tell me this, break this down for me.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
What happened? Who told you? Blah blah this happened? X
y Z what happened?
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Because you know, Paullie, bless his heart, was kept out
of the vote so many times, like Man's had no.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Clue he was out of the vote. So she's like, oh, hi, Paulie,
how are you. I can't unpack anything because you had
no idea.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Yeah, so Laura was just like tell me everything, and
I'm like, oh god, yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
So it was just sort of like me, like not
eating a single thing and just Laura. But yeah, so
much fun. We had so much fun. And that's the
really important part of this scenario is that it's one
of the best social experiments on the planet where we
get to do ridiculous things to each other, lie, cheap, manipulate, steel,
be an huge hypocrite and then magically we finished this.
(19:08):
We come back to Melbourne and like, Laura is one
of my closest friends. I love that girl to this.
She has the keys to like the spare keys to
my house. That's how close we are.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
You're never going to do anything in your life like
this again. It's like going to far away the faraway tree,
do you know what I mean? Like, yeah, things that
we've learned about what's not appropriate, what's not social norms,
and how to behave throw that at the window. Backstab, lie,
cheat and steal, and you may be celebrated as a
Survivor Icon. I want you to do me a huge favor,
(19:39):
and that is that what you did on this show
created a TV moment that people will talk about for
a very long time at the end of the day.
That is worth celebrating. I think you were fantastic in
that and it was probably my favorite five minutes of
this season. So while you didn't win, I'm sure you'll
understand this the way that I do when it comes
to applying and going on these shows. You gave us something.
(20:01):
He gave us something to watch and it was amazing,
and I want you to be proud of it and
never back down and avoid the comment section.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
I will no thank you.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
That's actually really nice, and I think that's what everyone's
just sort of tried to tell me. They're like, you're
really zoning in on the ones that are calling you
more on and like an idiot, and they're like.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
I did you have fun doing that? I was like, yes,
I did. I had so much fun.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Getting voted out was probably the best part of the
game for me.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
That's all the matters. Those people are weird, And someone
told me, for every one person that is bothered to
write something nasty about you, there's one hundred people out
there that loved and are obsessed with you. And I really,
over the years of commenting on television, believe that theory
because imagine the sort of person that has bothered to
write something. And you know what, the people that get
(20:47):
trolled the most, they get the ones that penetrate the
mindset more, do you know what I mean? Like they
upset the manutia or whatever it's called. They like get
in there. And that's why these weirdos go because they
know they couldn't do it.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
And that's the thing, Like, I know the relationships I
have with these like my castmates, like and as much
as they're like, oh.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
My god, they're being thir meat to each other, how
dare she say that to him? I'm like, no, sure,
Like I don't know.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
I got like stupidly drunk ones and tore my miniscas
and who did I call at midnight? A J Like
you know, that's one of my closest friends.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
I just ride back every now and again. I never
ride back to anyone. I'm not saying that, but I
ride back to them every now and again. I say,
open up a window and let some airing. I've been
sitting there in that dark room. Oh man, people, but
you'll never meet I mean, come on, oh no.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
My thing is now to just send them to link
to the Australian Survivor casting like link, just being like all.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Right, here you go.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Yeah, yeah, how well will you go? You won't even
make it past the written application because you can't spell.
The people that would write the nastiest stuff about me,
the one thing they all have in common was bad spelling,
gramar and a bad attitude.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
Here's that.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Yeah, enjoy chatting to the media and joy this moment.
It is so fantastic and you were so fantastic And
I just want to thank you for being so generous
and chatting with me today and unpacking your experience.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
Thank you so much for taking the time. It was
really fun.
It's in the news today, but it was actually on
TV Reload.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
The podcast last week.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Thereby, Hey guys, welcome back to TV Reload. I want
to thank you for clicking and downloading on today's episode
with Karen, who absolutely deserves the chance to unpack that
final Tribal Council experience on a strained Survivor brands versus
Broad two. Love her moves or not, Karen's decision to
tribal Council gave us an unforgettable TV moment. I was
(00:23):
surprised to hear how much trolling she's received for what
some may say was a self sabotaging play at the end.
But let's not forget this is a TV show and
the boldest players give us the best moments of the season,
and that is why I'm thrilled that Karen is here
to share her side of the story. In this episode,
Karen breaks down exactly what was going through her mind
(00:45):
as she took a high stakes gamble in week six.
Karen will share her thoughts on the remaining players, all
of them left in the competition, and drop some excellent
exclusives along the way. I'll ask Karen about the reception
she received at the jury of Villa and get her
takes on some of the biggest moves that she made
in the game. Plus, we will find out which castaways
(01:06):
have become her lifelong friends, and of course, why she
told Miles to shut his legs. There's actually so much
to discuss, with plenty of behind the scenes revelations, So
sit back, relax, and let's dive into the incredible world
of a Strained Survivor, which returns this Sunday night on
Network ten. I'm excited to talk to you. How are
(01:28):
you feeling this morning.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
I've just finished a night sift, so tie, But yeah,
I know I've had you know, what's it?
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Golly? When did I get edited out last night? Night before?
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yeah, I've had thirty six hours of you know, unadulted
a week time to contend with my demons.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
What do you mean your demons? I mean it was
an epic way to leave the show and everyone's going
to remember you forever.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Oh yeah no.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
But by demons, I mean all of like the keyboard
mafia calling me more on Those are the demons, amen.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Current you know who this people are. Those people are
a picture of a cat or a crow. They can't
do these shows. They couldn't apply. They can't come for you, mate.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Oh, like this is what happens when it's like three
am and you're bored and you're waiting for an X
ray to happen, and you're like I was read Reddit
and you're like, no, don't read readit, but not like yeah,
but no, it's all good.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Nah, I feel good better gooder. Now there you go.
You feel gooder, yeah, gooder better.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
You were so good on this show, though, Like I
just thought you were so confident, and you're so well spoken,
and you were so articulate. And I walked away thinking,
even though people will come for you with the way
that you came out of this show, I think you're
a very smart lady.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
I like to think so too.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
I think a large percentage of the time I'm quite smart,
am I sort of like boneheaded and stubborn, absolutely, But
like I think, like the baseline IQ sort of subdues
the boneheaded stubbornness, but sometimes it comes out.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
We can't blame we can't be perfect all the time.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Paully said something to me about it, because I spoke
to Paulli after yourope and he was like, I know
people are going to say something about the way in
which current came out of the show. Any sitting on
their couch at home understand how tired, how hungry, and
how I can't over the turn of phrase that he used.
But sort of like you are at the wick, you know,
like you are not operating like a person who's just
(03:13):
ordered a pizza and it's having a glass of wine
watching an aeron twenty minutes of television.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
That's the thing.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
So like, even sort of the information I got was
pretty much a minute thirty seconds into like going to tribal,
and then you're just sort of going, okay, cool, these
are the numbers. Wait a minute, she said, these are
still one of the bizarre. That means they're on this
side of the split. And then you get this sort
of like split fatigue, and then you're going, Okay, who
(03:39):
likes me? Who doesn't like me?
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Great? What am I going to do? How do I
do this?
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Crap, I can't talk to anyone now because we're on
the way to tribal. Okay, maybe you should just shut up.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Maybe it's like.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Just just keep your pie hole shut. And I was like, well, like,
then if I keep my pie hole shut, I'll go
to the next round. Then I have to grovel and
beg and like, I'm.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
So sorry, aj My was ha ha ha. I'm back again.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Please love me, even though I've you know, essentially ran
a smear campaign against you for the last fourteen days.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
I'm sorry, I'll change.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
I was watching it, but I've done competition reality, so
I know what it's like. And I think that when
you're very stressed in those environments, things can change in
a minute, and so it's very easy to let your
emotions get the better of you. And in some other
competition reality letting the emotions get the better of you works.
But for this game and those people out there that
(04:31):
study this game, they think you can't be emotional the
way that you were. But I mean it could have
very easily worked. I mean that's what Russian rule it is, right.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Yeah, well, I mean that was like, so I got
my read on that situation wrong in two parts. Like
I understand that in hindsight, I didn't realize how close
Kaylen was to ag like and that's a credit to Kaylen.
Klein and I had a very very good relationship in
the game.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Wasn't shown very well. We had a very good relationship.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
We come from sort of similar sporting backgrounds, We sort
of understand each other in a similar way as well.
And I knew it would be hard to switch him on,
but like I figured a knee jerk event was the
only way to kip him over the age.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
But I didn't realize how.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Entrenched he was with AJ and like it didn't make
sense for Kristen and Logan to turn like it did
not make sense given that Kristen was someone that I'd
been protecting since Tribe Swap when it came down to
like the hostage situations.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
And then like.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Zara had built such a close relationship with PD, PD
and I would have many chats across the map in
TRIBESWAP as well, so I'd already built a relationship in
that regard Logan, I've been sort of saving since the
start in like Brain's one point zero, So it didn't
really make sense for them to sort of put themselves
onto a bottom of an already existing majority, like, which
(05:54):
is why it sort of just went, hey, I've like
I've given you zero like risk to you in this point,
Like we can hit anyone, we hit anyone, I'm going
to get like we'll give you an options. Because Miles
seems to be the lowest hanging fruit that everyone wants
to go for.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
We can go there.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
We can just hit aj and if he has an idol,
it doesn't really matter because you still get me out
in the process.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
So like zero cost you.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
I was hoping that it would sort of tickle the
resume building side of their brains a little bit, to
be like, you know, you're currently up against huge game
players who are throwing wild moves back, left, right, and center,
and now you've got an opportunity to put yourself into
one and potentially turn the hierarchy in the game.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Take it, Take it.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
I mean Kristin tried to help you, and I think
that had Kristen's advice to you, if you just let
that wash over you and just sort of changed a
few decisions, you might have still been in the competition.
But I also worry at this point for everyone that's
left that's not Miles, who has a resume that everyone
is going to vote for when we get to jury.
(06:58):
That's what I want to know at this point.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Again, it's really important.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
I mean, like you can so currently in the game,
there are people that can pitch a.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Very strong jury pitch.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
AJ can build an incredible jury pitch from what he's done, Yes,
does it look like he's a bit chaotic, but he
still managed to escape multiple attents at him, and.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
He can pitch.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
He's had the most audacious plan, which you know we
were all part of, to take hostages, and he still
pro survived to merge. He's still managed to sort of
band a loyal army around him that are very reluctant
to vote against them even when it's in their best interests.
Miles has an incredible resume, which which is evident, and
he's stacking up votes left, right, and center. We're looking
at like quite possibly record breaking numbers for Miles at
(07:42):
this point.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
And the weird thing is that I didn't like him
to start with. I didn't enjoy him on the show
for so long, and now he's been around for so
long and he's pulled so many moves. I'm starting to
think that he's queen beat, do you know what I mean? Like,
it's so weird.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
It's the weird thing about.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Miles is like, yeah, he's like it's so frontal when
it comes to how he expresses himself, and it comes
off across incredibly.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Annoying at the start, and you're like, oh my god.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
But then you get to the crux of who Miles
is and it's actually quite endearing, hilarious, and then like
the word vomit you get sometimes when he goes off
on a tangent is hilarious and also like great white noise.
I remember asking him about I don't know. We were
looking at the stars and then I got like twenty
minutes of string theory and whether a photon transmits as
(08:29):
a wave or a particle, and I went, Miles, it's
two am.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
It's two am. I don't know what time it is,
but it feels like I've been talking to you forever.
I literally, Yeah, was it you that told him to
keep his legs shut? At one point I thought that
was iconic. It was like Marshall Heines on Australian Idol
years ago. She was like, listen, honey, put your legs together.
Was that you?
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Yeah? That was very Miles legs.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Them together, you know, And it's not something that we
really hear often with people saying that to men. But
do you know what one of my pet peeves is
men that men spread? Do you know what I mean,
Like men that sit there with their legs really spread.
I'm always like, put that away. I don't know if
you watch enough television or was watch as much as
I do, but hay much Blake did it on Celebrity
goggle Box and I got five minutes into the show
(09:12):
and I was like, no, that's not it.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
You're taking far too much space less damn legs.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
What made you reluctant to join rejoin the graduates? Like
I felt like you you didn't want to do.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
That, Like the graduates started because we were so tired
of all of it was really nice at the start
because we were just communicating. We were making all these
plans and we would make like real brash decisions, but
it was all like a good amount of communication.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
For example, like Asian.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
And I had raging insomnia at the start of you know,
when we were on Brains and it was literally just
the two of us talking of four hours because we
couldn't go to sleep. And then you tack in miles
to the conversation later on and we're like, oh, great,
were oh I think quite similar.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
This is really fun.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
All of those people are way smarter than me, Like
you're all above my pay grade.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
They're ridiculously smart, Like oh my god, like what are you?
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Oh yeah, sure add me to the list.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
But like, I think the relationship breakdown was definitely like
AJ and I like at the start we would communicate
really well, and then he would sort of get this
like wild idea and I'd go, no, AJ, that's not
going to work because X, Y Z number exists, or
how do you know, because I'm working with those numbers,
you're not going to get them. And he's going, Okay, no,
actually I can get them, and i'ment, no, you can't,
(10:34):
Please don't do that, and then he would go do it,
and I went, I told you so. I literally took
it like this was like you know him. When he
wanted to get out Logan, he came to me and
I said, AJ, you don't have the numbers.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Well, how do you know?
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Because I'm working with all four of the girls that
you want to work with, they are not going to
turn Oh but I can do it. Okay, go do it.
Then comes back I can't do it. I'm like, great,
now you've added yourself. Now I've got to save your
ass by giving this like Kokammy story to Logan and
be like, oh, I.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Don't know, like I've not heard this at all. He's
not going.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
For you, except that that's all he's been talking about
and wrote a novel about it.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Yeah, And then like we get to the next stage
where Miles and I had a really good working relationship
and the graduates had like, you know, almost seventy five
percent formed, where Miles was like, great, I'm going to
give you all of the information that's going from this
bomb squad. So when AJ pulled this out of hat,
I already knew it existed, and I'm like, well, Miles
gave me all this information. You didn't who I've been
(11:31):
talking to since like our twenty four of this game.
It's okay, okay, cool, We're stacking more information. Then we
get to tribe swap and I'm like, you're very like
the hostage plan was just a conversation where Agent I
went who do you want to get rid of? And
both of us said the same names together and we
went great. And then I said, okay, what if we
(11:52):
offer up saving Ursula as like a like a peace
offering to the likes of PD. And then AJ was like, well,
why don't we just like reverse it? Make hold them
hostage and then do it. And I'm like, well that
sounds kind of comes, sounds kind of fun. All right, cool,
let's do it, but let's like, let's maybe just set
the scene a bit, create a bit of mood lighting,
fake thunder, and then do it as opposed to just
(12:12):
like hauling off straight in there being like I'm walking
them off a plank and I'm like, okay, now everyone's mad.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Okay, And then like.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
You'd get like filter fed bits of information, being like, man,
I had this conversation with you, and now I'm getting
like five different versions of you creating this back so
like and then I'm stubborn and petty, and sometimes if
I see an opportunity to be stubborn and petty, I'm
gonna take it, just because that's who I am as
a person. Like I don't like like at that point,
(12:41):
it was just pissing off AJ, because I could piss
off AJ and he would be just mad at me
because it's irrational and logical, and he'd just be like.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
Why are you doing this.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
I'm like, well, I'm doing it because it's funny. He's
like yeah, but I don't get it.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
I'm like and like yeah, of course, like you know,
like you don't like you can.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Tell people you have an idol and whatever, but like
you know, I was like, cool, lo, I was hanging fruit.
I'm going to grab onto this and keep hanging onto
this because nah. But yeah, maybe maybe that was sort
of like my downfall as well. But yeah, that's why
I like the graduates was like such a finnicky position
for me, because I was just like, I don't know
if I can trust you enough anymore. And as much
as you say all these things to me, I see
(13:17):
you forming these relationships with like Kate and Morgan. I
see you going to other people like you're creating an
escape route, and like, understandably.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
So was I.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
So if you're escaping everyone exactly, I'm like, you're creating
a life raft out of the graduates. I'm creating a
life raft out of the red graduates. So ipso facto,
this is just convenience.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Now.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
You know what's interesting as well is that I feel
like with Kaylin and Kristen, they're like house pets that
have now become like a problem. You know, when you
go to people's houses and you realize that the pets
are at the top of the food chain. You're like,
how has this happened? He's a golden retriever and she's
a kitten, like and they're somehow now contenders to win.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
It's Kaitlyn's game has been really understated.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
To be honest, like until I saw well, like the
last episode where he's actively telling Jlpeter not tell us
how far he was ahead of, you know, in the
puzzle challenge, Like you know, Miles and I had the
chat and we were like, I thought he was about
a challenge like path puzzles we took like twenty five
minutes because you know, I was like, I know how
long I took to throw that down like sandbag, So I.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Was like, why is he taking so long to finish
this stupid puzzle?
Speaker 2 (14:22):
But now that was like an absolutely calculated move, and
you're like, oh, well.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Damn Klen okay.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
But then obviously, like when we were in Brains one
point oh and Tribes what, there were moments where Klen
would literally go out for a snorkel when we were
doing Stratchat like would just be like no, no, no,
you guys, give me a name and then just go
off into the ocean and we're going But oh, okay,
whether that's sort of like cool, you know, like absolute
(14:48):
confidence and credit to him if you're like, I am
so confident in my social ability, I do not even
need to go into a stratchat.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
I don't need it. I'm that comfortable.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
What's interesting as well to me is about what you
accuse people of doing in this game as a negative
is something that everyone does by nature. I think, you know,
accusing aj of changing plans, but you were changing plans
as well, just about labeling people, I think and hoping
that those labels don't fall on you.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
I guess, yeah, no, absolutely, and it's completely contradictory. Like
the reason like I'm getting so upset is because, like
I'm trying to counter all of the moves that he's making, and.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
It's very hard to predict when he keeps changing things,
so I can't counter them. So I'm say, oh my god.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Just do something in a straight line so I can
actually mounted like a defense to this. In the same
way that you know, when Paul got voted out, like
you just have a sneaky suspicion, and which I did.
I was like, Myles is going to try something, and
Kristen's going to be the target because he doesn't want
us dragging someone to the end. He wants it to
be like this epic battle royality the end. That's what
(15:48):
Miles and AJ want. He doesn't want Christen to get dragged.
And I was like, all right, cool, you're going to
target Kristen. Okay, okay, okay, but's this is so frustrating. Okay, great,
whose numbers are you going to get xyz? Okay, we
need to pitch this. Your brain hurts and keep hurting
as well. And yeah, so of course, like, yeah, cool,
call me a hypocrite. Yeah cool, I won't plan ABC,
(16:08):
but I will also do you know, be one point
five and be three point four. But that's just it.
And at that point I was ready to run any
smear campaign against Aj at that you.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Know you're on the jury. Yeah, it's time to forget
about the way in which your game sort of fell
apart and start now admiring people for the way in
which they destroyed you.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Absolutely, and like AJ is an incredible adversary. The reason,
like I had so much fun being irritated at him
was it was just great to just throw stuff at
him and you'd be like, a right, cool, great, follow
that back and you're like, oh damn, he's good again,
and it's fun, Like mil is fun to watch as well,
and like that's why the jury is so great because
you just get to watch it all unfold and go
(16:48):
this is fantastic or oh my god, Karen's flaming out, idiot.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
The looks on everyone's face is Paully looks really bitchy
at that jury, Like I don't know what was going on?
Do you reckon that they cut up some really bitchy
cups of him to make him look like that, Like
he looked really mad, I know.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
But he's so hot when he looks mad.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
I call him sexy Jafar. How does that work for you? Yes?
Speaker 3 (17:11):
Or like you know Scarf from Lion King, like really the.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Same person I didn't even like where we gives me
like really.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Hot in a kind of angry, sadistic way, and you're like,
why am I attracted to you right now? I did
not want to be You're mad at me, but like
I kind of like it.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
I like it out of time, so like I've really
got to wrap things up. But I ask everyone at
the end of the podcast, like what is something from
behind the scenes and I think at this point not
everyone watches the clip that we get to see of
you returning to the jury. So I guess a good
question of behind the scenes for a lot of people
would be what's happening when you get there? What was
the dynamic? Like when you were reunited with Paulie.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
And Laura, Like, oh, I was like high key stressed
because I went, oh, god, Laura's going to like put
a hex on me, and like Paulie's gonna, I don't know,
spit into my wine or whatever.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
And they just gave me straight up.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Poker face as I sort of like what you know
that mean where you're like, hey, guys, how you doing
that one? And then it was just stone cold and
then like Laura broke immediately, and then all I could
like my favorite food like is carbonara and it was
in front of me and I could not get more
than like three fork falls in because like Laura was like, no,
tell me this, break this down for me.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
What happened? Who told you? Blah blah this happened? X
y Z what happened?
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Because you know, Paullie, bless his heart, was kept out
of the vote so many times, like Man's had no.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Clue he was out of the vote. So she's like, oh, hi, Paulie,
how are you. I can't unpack anything because you had
no idea.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Yeah, so Laura was just like tell me everything, and
I'm like, oh god, yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
So it was just sort of like me, like not
eating a single thing and just Laura. But yeah, so
much fun. We had so much fun. And that's the
really important part of this scenario is that it's one
of the best social experiments on the planet where we
get to do ridiculous things to each other, lie, cheap, manipulate, steel,
be an huge hypocrite and then magically we finished this.
(19:08):
We come back to Melbourne and like, Laura is one
of my closest friends. I love that girl to this.
She has the keys to like the spare keys to
my house. That's how close we are.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
You're never going to do anything in your life like
this again. It's like going to far away the faraway tree,
do you know what I mean? Like, yeah, things that
we've learned about what's not appropriate, what's not social norms,
and how to behave throw that at the window. Backstab, lie,
cheat and steal, and you may be celebrated as a
Survivor Icon. I want you to do me a huge favor,
(19:39):
and that is that what you did on this show
created a TV moment that people will talk about for
a very long time at the end of the day.
That is worth celebrating. I think you were fantastic in
that and it was probably my favorite five minutes of
this season. So while you didn't win, I'm sure you'll
understand this the way that I do when it comes
to applying and going on these shows. You gave us something.
(20:01):
He gave us something to watch and it was amazing,
and I want you to be proud of it and
never back down and avoid the comment section.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
I will no thank you.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
That's actually really nice, and I think that's what everyone's
just sort of tried to tell me. They're like, you're
really zoning in on the ones that are calling you
more on and like an idiot, and they're like.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
I did you have fun doing that? I was like, yes,
I did. I had so much fun.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Getting voted out was probably the best part of the
game for me.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
That's all the matters. Those people are weird, And someone
told me, for every one person that is bothered to
write something nasty about you, there's one hundred people out
there that loved and are obsessed with you. And I really,
over the years of commenting on television, believe that theory
because imagine the sort of person that has bothered to
write something. And you know what, the people that get
(20:47):
trolled the most, they get the ones that penetrate the
mindset more, do you know what I mean? Like they
upset the manutia or whatever it's called. They like get
in there. And that's why these weirdos go because they
know they couldn't do it.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
And that's the thing, Like, I know the relationships I
have with these like my castmates, like and as much
as they're like, oh.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
My god, they're being thir meat to each other, how
dare she say that to him? I'm like, no, sure,
Like I don't know.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
I got like stupidly drunk ones and tore my miniscas
and who did I call at midnight? A J Like
you know, that's one of my closest friends.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
I just ride back every now and again. I never
ride back to anyone. I'm not saying that, but I
ride back to them every now and again. I say,
open up a window and let some airing. I've been
sitting there in that dark room. Oh man, people, but
you'll never meet I mean, come on, oh no.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
My thing is now to just send them to link
to the Australian Survivor casting like link, just being like all.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Right, here you go.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Yeah, yeah, how well will you go? You won't even
make it past the written application because you can't spell.
The people that would write the nastiest stuff about me,
the one thing they all have in common was bad spelling,
gramar and a bad attitude.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
Here's that.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Yeah, enjoy chatting to the media and joy this moment.
It is so fantastic and you were so fantastic And
I just want to thank you for being so generous
and chatting with me today and unpacking your experience.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
Thank you so much for taking the time. It was
really fun.
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