September 28, 2023 • 38 mins
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
It is verdict was center Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with you,
and it is our debate show. If you watched the
Republican debate, you saw some lively moments. Senator, you watched it,
I watched it. Give me your overall takeaway. Who was
the big winner and was there any even a second place?
Speaker 3 (00:22):
So you and I are recording this at is eleven
forty one pm East Coast time.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
I'm in DC.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
So the debate just ended a few minutes ago. I
gotta say my reaction to it. This was a bumpy debate.
There were a lot of rocky moments. I think most
of the candidates did not help themselves. But my clear
conclusion from tonight is the big winner was Ron de Santis.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Why is that?
Speaker 3 (00:47):
I did well? I did not think that in Debate one?
So remember Debate one. We came together and I said,
the winners in Debate one were Vivek Ramaswami and Nikki
Haley and a little bit Mike Pens and the real
winner was Donald Trump because all three of them were elevated,
and that hurt DeSantis, and DeSantis needs to make it
a two man race with Trump, and so that was
(01:07):
my take on debate one. I think going into the night,
Dessantus needed to do well, and I think he rose
to the occasion. I think he did by far the
best of anyone on the stage several reasons. Number one
is just the behavior of the others. I think they
bickered like children, and I don't think it helped them.
I think when they were just yelling at each other,
(01:29):
back and forth, and back and forth and back and forth.
When you see a bunch of people screaming at each other,
they don't look like presidents. They're not behaving like presidents.
Presidents don't have to yap at each other. And I
thought there were times, particularly early in the debate, when
the debate kind of got away from the moderators. As
the debate went on, the moderators did a better job
(01:51):
of getting a little bit of control of it and
having a little bit more discussion. But DeSantis had several
He had the best answers of the night. The single
best answer of the night was his answer on education,
and he was the topic came up about education, It
came up about school choice, and he gave a strong,
powerful answer about school choice. About how Number one Florida
(02:14):
implemented universal school choice. Florida's led the country in school choice,
so they've got a heck of a record to talk about.
He was asked about the attacks on their efforts to
root out critical race theory in Florida, and he directly
confronted that, and I thought it was a tight, crisp
answer that was strong. A second answer that was very
(02:36):
very strong is where he talked about having victories and listen,
the reason people got excited about Dissantis when he launched
the campaign is the victories that he had in Florida,
big policy victories. He emphasized that. The third answer that
was really strong is where he talked about winning, and
he talked about winning in Florida even as nationally we
(02:56):
were getting clobbered. In twenty twenty two, he won by
nineteen points. And I think he did an effective argument
in many ways. His strongest argument against Trump is that
he won by while many other candidates that Trump had
supported nationally did not win that cycle. And and and
his argument, you want a winner, you want someone who
(03:17):
can beat the Democrats. I'm that guy. I think he
articulated it much much better tonight than he did in
the first debate that that's why I think Ron de
Santus won tonight.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
You know, he mentioned that that you know, there's we've
lost the last three times. As he described it, right,
we were supposed to win in the last midterm elections.
We were supposed to win the election before that and
the one before that, and we didn't. And and he
he also compared in contrast as you mentioned, I think
extremely well, and it clearly clicked I think with people watching.
As I was watching it live, just like you were there,
(03:49):
I was like, okay, this is this is one of
those quasi moments where he was reminding people of history,
like not only did we win when when the nation
was losing, when the Republicans are losing on nights, we
should have won, but we want it expanded in Florida.
That was a potent moment to remind people that we
(04:10):
should have control of the Senate right now and we
don't because we had some bad candidate selection.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Let's just be honest.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Look, Republicans desperately want to win. The Biden record is
an absolute train wreck. And I got to admit I
lay awake at night in cold sweats that we will
see the Democrats re elected in twenty twenty four. The
damage they've done to the country in the last two
and a half years, Holy cow, if they get another
four what a bad outcome for the country. So, as
(04:37):
I'm looking for a candidate, I want someone to can
win the damn race. And in many ways that is
Desantus's strongest argument. And in the first debate he didn't
really make it, and he came a lot closer to
making it tonight, so I think he did better as
a result.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Let's talk about the poll numbers coming out of this
real quick, give me your predictions of who rises and
who We had already had one candidate out of Arkansas
who's fallen off the debate stage, did not qualify for
this one. Everybody's goal is to make it to Miami
to the next debate in what four or five weeks?
Speaker 1 (05:13):
That's obviously the center goal.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
But who helped themselves, who is going to go backwards
and who could be in real trouble.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Look, I think the ends of the debate stage we
saw Asa Hutchison fall off. I think the ends of
the debate stage are at real risk of being eliminated
from the stage. Doug Bergham. His numbers, it's not clear
that he qualified for tonight, but they allowed him on
the stage. But I think his numbers, he's going to
have to do a whole lot of movement to qualify
(05:43):
for the next debate stage. I think Mike Pence, he's
the vice president, former vice president of the United States.
He's a good man, he's a friend. But I think
he's right at the edge of not making the next debate. Also,
narrowing the debate stage is a good thing this race,
if there's going to be a real race. Look, in
(06:04):
many ways, this is sort of like a basketball playoff,
where it's a playoff to see who goes gets to
go against Donald Trump. And I guess you can sort
of think about it that Trump gets a bye. He's
the former president, he's decided to skip the debates. So
in some ways, ask.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
You this real quickly. Is that still you think the
smart strategy? Obviously, I think was the right strategy for
debate number one at the end of tonight, Was it
also the right strategy for him to skip debate number two?
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Maybe maybe not. Look, I think he's enough ahead in
the polls, the national polls, He's up forty plus points.
I mean, that's a strong lead. And I think his
his analysis, and it's not a crazy analysis, is he's
so far ahead, why would he go and from his
perspective elevate the other candidates. You know, you think about
(06:56):
in twenty sixteen, you had two debates. You had the
main debate and you had what everyone called the kid's table,
which were the candidates that were at one and two percent,
and very few people watch the kids table. What Trump
has effectively done by skipping the debate is he's trying
to turn everyone else into the kids table, like this
is not the real candidates, He's the only candidate. I
understand that strategy. That is a perfectly rational debate strategy.
(07:19):
I will say, you know, Trump got popped a little
more tonight than he did on the first night, and
in particular, I think desanis hitting him on abortion in life.
Look Trump's answer where he said it was a terrible
thing that the state of Florida passed a law protecting life.
That's an answer if you're talking to pro life activists
(07:42):
in Iowa. I don't know how you defend that answer.
And I think Trump did a good or rather dissantis
did a good job of really holding Trump to account
for it. Now, if he'd been there, Trump could have
given it an answer. Trump would have presumably said, look,
I'm the guy that appointed three justices that overturn Roe
versus Wade. I mean, he would have made a forceful response.
But he wasn't there. And that's one of the consequences
(08:05):
of not being there is someone can take a swing,
they can hit you, and there's not anyone there who's
gonna respond or defend you. So there were several shots
at Trump. I think that's the the two that hit
in any material way where I think DeSantis's point on
abortion hit. And I also think the general point about
(08:27):
we want to win and what Dessanis argued is that
he won in Florida while Trump supported candidates elsewhere we're losing.
Those were two shots that scored some blood. Now do
I expect major movements in the polls.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
No.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
I think the polls will be very similar next week
to where they are this week. So I don't think
you're going to see a dramatic move. But I think
Desanis took a meaningful step towards making this a two
man race, and the only conceivable way anyone has a
shot at beating Trump is for this to be a
two men raise, and I think this was a step
(09:05):
in that direction.
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center about age on the stage. There was a very
interesting dynamic on the stage where the elder statesman at
the far right was Mike Pence. If you were watching
the instant responses on social media, there were some people
that felt that he came across as maybe a little
bit too condescending to others on the stage. Some referred
(10:56):
to it as the Washington not it all arrogance. And
then you had the who had a pretty good debate
last time. I don't think he had as good of
a debate this time, that's my opinion. And you know,
he was getting hit from all sides tonight, a lot
of people attacking him on maybe some of his naivete
on things like China, and he even said, look, sometimes
(11:16):
I come across as and know it all, almost accepting.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
That about him.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Your reaction to that dynamic of two very different people
at very different stages in their career.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Yeah, Look, Vivek had a much rougher night tonight than
he did in the first debate. First debate, he did excellent.
He surprised a lot of people. He got on a
lot of people's radar. He really did well tonight. Look,
the other candidates don't like Vivec and they did not
hide that they were taking shots at him, and it
(11:48):
was that there was some pretty sneering moments. I do
think that the shot that scored the most was the
argument that several candidates made, that Nikki Haley made, that
Tim Scott made about being in bed with communist China,
and they made some pretty specific allegations of him being
paid by the same players that paid Hunter.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Biden five million by the way, paid to Hunter Biden
five million dollars, the same people, which when when you
hear that on stage, that's a that's a big for me,
a red flag, right.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
And Vivek did not have a good answer to that.
He he he just he didn't respond on the substance,
he just said, well, well, we need to follow Ronald
Reagan's eleventh commandment, so don't criticize me. And and and
I got to say in the last debate, Vivek did
not follow Ronald Reagan's eleventh commandment. And I will say,
(12:40):
to Tim Scott's credit, Tim's best moment was when he
turned to him and said, hold on a second, Vivek,
you said every one of us is bought and paid for.
Who the hell are you to say that. That was
a good moment for Tim because it really was a
pretty obnoxious thing for Vivek to say to allege that
the other candidates are bought and paid for. And if
you're gonna do that, if you're gonna say to the
(13:01):
other candidates, you guys are all prostitutes, you don't get
to complain moments later, Hey, don't criticize me, be nice
to me. We shouldn't be be criticizing each other. And
so I think that, uh.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
That was almost one of the big inexperienced moments when
I laugh when people say I want a new face
who hadn't done this before, and I'm like, until you don't.
And my point is sometimes experience in politics is actually important,
and it's important especially when you get elected. It's really
important when you're dealing with foreign leaders and world leaders
at a very high level, when you're dealing with negotiations.
(13:37):
If you've never been there before, this whole idea of oh,
I'm the new guy in the block, it's cute until
it's not.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Look, I think the job of president of the United
States is a very serious position. I think the burdens
of it are enormous. There's a reason why just about
every president who's ever served seems to age about twenty
years in the job. It is an insanely difficult job.
Speaker 4 (13:57):
You know.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
I'm reminded of when Trump was newly elected, and I
think it was March of twenty seventeen. Trump had heiding
and me and the girls to the White House for
dinner and it was a marvelous time. It was very
nice of him to invite them, and we brought our
girls there and as we're walking, we're walking by the
Rose Garden, Trump looks at me and says, Wow, who
(14:20):
knew this job was so tough? And I got to
admit I was. I am rarely at a loss for words.
I was genuinely flabbergasted. I was like, yes, some of
us kind of had that idea. I mean it was
really a kind of And listen, don't take that comment wrong.
(14:41):
I think when Trump was president, we accomplished an enormous amount.
But I also think this is a job that requires
a seriousness of purpose, a seriousness of execution, on ability
to communicate, to motivate, to get the job done, and
it is a I am generally skeptical of any candidate
(15:04):
who's never served in in any government position waking up
and saying, you know, I should be president of the
United States other than generals who won World Wars that
there's not a great history of that.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Great point when you look at this moving forward and
you sit there and you go, okay, I'm Donald Trump tonight. Afterwards,
I'm obviously going to watch this thing he did his
counterprogramming with you know, uaw et cetera. But afterwards, eventually
you're gonna sit down, You're gonna take a look at this.
Are you uneasy or do you still feel very confident
that you're still going to have a forty point lead
(15:43):
after all this?
Speaker 3 (15:44):
Oh, look, I think Trump will still have a big, big, lead,
but he's not happy that DeSantis did well. Trump would
have been very happy if if Ron De Santis had
sucked tonight, because as long as they're a bunch of candidates.
It's why in Debate one, I said the biggest winner
in Debate one was Donald Trump, because if there are
two or three or four people on the stage that
(16:05):
are gaining a pointer or two, he's winning. As long
as that field is fractured, he's winning. If DeSantis gets
some real momentum, if he makes it more of a
two man race, that's not ideal for Trump. And so
I'm confident Trump is not happy about that aspect. I
do think the next debate we will see one or
(16:26):
two people eliminated from the stage. I think the smaller
it gets, the more of a threat it poses to
Trump and everyone in the media who is saying this
race is over. Listen. That is at least a historical
at this point. At this point in the race, we're
still in September before the election. At this point in
the race, Jeb Bush was still the dominant leader. He
(16:48):
was starting to fade, and Scott Walker was becoming the
dominant leader. In twenty sixteen, after Walker, you had a
Ben Carson moment where he says for about two weeks
he had a huge surge, and then after that you
had Marco Rubio. And at the end of the day,
if you look at twenty sixteen, Trump and I went
(17:11):
head to head, we were one and two in almost
every single state. No other candidate won more than a
single state Kasikua, Ohio, Rubio one Minnesota, and Trump and
I won every other state in the country. I won
twelve states, He won the rest of them. So my
point is, the people who were dominant leaders in the
polls today in the twenty sixteen cycle did not win
(17:35):
a single state. So the world can change a lot.
That being said, Trump is still in a very strong position.
I mean, a forty point lead in the polls is
not nothing. It just doesn't mean the race is over.
As some in the media are wont to say.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Let's talk about foreign policy.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
I actually was a little bit disappointed in the depth
of that conversation, and I want to get your reaction
to it. There was obviously a lot of talk about China,
specifically with Vivek, but then you deal with Ukraine and
you deal with border. The border issue, for example, it
didn't seem to have a lot of depth there that
(18:12):
I think many people were hoping for.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Yeah, there wasn't a whole lot of substance. There wasn't
a whole lot of analysis of what caused the border crisis.
I don't think any of those candidates have spent significant
time at our southern border. I didn't get the sense
that any of them fully understood it. You didn't have
an explanation as to the to the real human tragedy
that our crisis of the southern border is and why
(18:37):
Joe Biden is directly responsible for it. Look, I will
say Chris Christie, Chris Christi is the one candidate on
that stage who attacks Trump and does so repeatedly. I
don't think he helped himself a whole lot tonight. So,
for example, one of his big attacks on Trump, and
he's been doing this on Twitter before, is he says
(18:57):
Trump didn't build the wall and he didn't make Mexico
pay for it. Now, look, I get that's probably a
pretty good line if you're dealing with hedge fund owners
and donors, but it's a stupid policy attack. Look, there
are things that I wish Trump had done differently as president,
but on immigration, his record on immigration is excellent. And
(19:21):
when Trump left the White House, we had the lowest
rate of illegal immigration in forty five years. He negotiated
the Remain in Mexico Agreement. The Remain in Mexico Agreement worked,
It worked spectacularly well. Joe Biden inherited an incredible success
on illegal immigration, and Joe Biden deliberately blew it up
(19:42):
within days of becoming president. And so I think Christy
attacking Trump. Look, do I wish he'd built more border wall, sure,
but not acknowledging that on securing the border. Donald Trump
did more to secure the border than any president we
have had in our nation's history, and in any candidate.
Not saying that is being dishonest. So if you want
(20:04):
to find grounds to disagree with Trump, fine, but that attack.
I don't know of a Republican voter who's persuaded by
that attack, unless it's someone that already hates Trump, and
then they're like, yeah, yeah, Mexico didn't pay for it.
It's like, come on, guys, I mean, he did more
than anyone else has ever done, and the results were
(20:24):
really good.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
And look, yeah, he was clearly trying Chris Christy was
clearly trying to have a moment. I want to play
that because it was a very interesting part of the
debate you just mentioned it. Here is Chris Christy, in
his own words.
Speaker 5 (20:36):
Governor Christie, as governor of a non border state in
twenty ten, you supported a path to citizenship, but when
you run for president in twenty sixteen you flipped saying
immigrants should be trucked like Edix packages. Where do you
stand now on a path to citizenship for eleven million
(20:57):
of on the commented immigrants.
Speaker 4 (20:58):
The problem is that since no one has done anything
since we first had this discussion thirteen years ago, we're
not in a position to be able to do any
of that anymore. What we have to do now is
first treat this like the law enforcement problem. It is.
Our laws are being broken every day at the southern
border every day, and Joe Biden and his crew is
(21:19):
doing nothing about enforcing that law.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
They are letting it go.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
And by the way, they announced during the presidential race
that we're going to.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Let it go.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
And we need to have a president who acts like
I did as governor, enforce the law first and foremost.
And that means what I'll do on day one is
sign an executive order to send the National Guard to
partner with Customs and Border Patrol to make sure that
we stop the flow of fentanyl over the border, but
(21:47):
also to make sure that we send a much different message.
We want you here in this country to fill the
six million vacant jobs we have, but only if you
come here to follow the law, and only if you
come here legally. Come here illegally, we will apprehend you
and we will send you back across the border from
which you came. And the fact is that until we
(22:08):
set a lawn order agenda in this country, not only
now but in the future, we won't be able to
continue this. And I'll look, I'll tell you this. Donald
Trump failed on this as well. He said he was
going to build a wall across the whole border. He
built fifty two miles a wall and said.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Mexico would pay for it.
Speaker 4 (22:24):
Guess what I think if Mexico knew that he was
only going to build fifty two miles, they might have
paid for the fifty two miles.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
But by the way, let center, if he would have
just stopped before he took the cheap shot at Trump,
which I don't think landed with anybody that was watching,
certainly not Trump supporters. It would have actually been a
pretty decent response to the question.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Yeah. Look, there is not a single human being on
planet Earth that thinks Chris Christie would be better on
stopping illegal immigration than Donald Trump was.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
There just isn't.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
The question began with, gosh, you flip flopped and you've
embraced amnesty repeatedly in your career, and Chris Christy built
his career as a blue state governor and a liberal,
demoderate Republican and so the attack. Look, I think in
debates and in politics, truth and authenticity matters that when
you have when you make a point that's from the heart,
(23:20):
that's real, that can land. And so it's why I
think Dessantus's point about we need to win and we
didn't win the way we should have in twenty eighteen,
twenty twenty and twenty twenty two, that's a real argument.
That's something primary voters are like, holy crap, we can't
lose in twenty four and I'm a little bit nervous.
I don't want us to lose, Like that's an argument
that has some teeth. The argument that Trump didn't care
(23:43):
enough about securing the border. It's just not true. And
I don't think it hurts any of the candidates to
acknowledge truth and reality to say, yeah, look, I mean,
we had some real successes on securing the borders. There're
more to do, sure, but you didn't have anyone explain
what caused this crisis was the decision one decision from
(24:07):
Joe Biden, which is to embrace catch and release, so
that now when illegal immigrants are apprehended, they let them
go and they don't deport them. As long as you
do that, you cannot solve the problem. That means the
next president. If you simply say, if you cross into
this country illegally, we will catch you, we will put
you on a plane, and we will fly you back
(24:29):
to your damn country, that's the answer. That's how you
secure the border. And you didn't have anyone with that clarity.
But I think Christie's answer on that it didn't land
because it was hitting Trump in an area of strength
and not an area of weakness.
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Speaker 1 (26:22):
Senator.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
I also want to talk about China and fetanyl for
a moment. You've talked a lot about fetanyl and the
issue at the border. This did seem to be something
that Republicans agreed on that we have a big problem.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
The issue is how do you fight back.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Nikki Haley said, time to go to war economically with China.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
As she described it, until they.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Stopped sending all the fetanyl into this country that's killing Americans.
She described it as they're at war with us. They're
taking our stealing our intellectual property. They're stealing everything then
get their hands on from us. They're setting up spy
bases in Cuba. They've done countless things that compromises countries,
spybal over this country as well, and this president clearly
(27:03):
seems to be compromise and cannot stand up to China.
I think we can all agree on that, but there
did seem to be a sent on stage that hey,
it's time to go on offense and to stop letting
China run all over us.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Well, look, you know it's interesting. You just said a
minute ago in your question you said this President Joe
Biden has compromised on China. It was interesting. There was
not a word said tonight about Biden's corruption, about the
WHI was shocking, and there was very little said about
Biden's record. There was very little said. What I found curious,
(27:39):
and it's why I think most of the candidates did
not have a great night tonight. There was very little
said about why they were the best candidate to beat
Donald Trump. And in the primary, that's the only question
is who can win the primary, And there was very
little said about why they were the best candidate to
beat Joe Biden. And at the end of the day,
that's what Republican primary voters are looking for. And it
(28:01):
was it was odd. When it came to Trump, most
of the candidates seem to forget that he existed, and
when it came to Joe Biden, by and large, most
of the candidates for god he existed, and you're trying
to prosecute a case. You're trying to make the case
that I'm the guy or I'm the gal to take
(28:24):
us to victory. And on China, look, there was some
rhetoric China's bad, China's bad, China's bad, But what we
didn't hear from anybody was a systematic, comprehensive plan to
how do we beat China. And I believe I've talked
about this a lot, that we need the sword of
systematic plan that Reagan had to win the Cold War,
(28:48):
a plan that takes on that that combats China's lies.
It's murder, its torture, it's genocide, it's espionage, it's theft,
its propaganda that goes after China, and there was very
little said about how specifically.
Speaker 4 (29:02):
We do that.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
There was some general rhetoric China bad, but not a
whole lot of substance. So therefore, what.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
I was shocked by what you just mentioned, and let's
dive into this for a moment. I think it was
a huge mistake to not bring up the big breaking
news that you and I broke on this podcast yesterday
in a.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
Quarter million dollars sent to Joe Biden's house.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Yeah, from Beijing, and no one mentioned it. On top
of the fact that it broke after we did that
show that based on the Plea deal agreement that was
given by David Weiss, it said in that plea agreement
that during the time that payment was made, the residence
for Hunter Biden was in California.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
That's in the plea agreement.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
That came out as kind of like, hey, if you
think that he was living in this house, that's the
same residents of the President of the United States of America,
you know, in Delaware, you're wrong. The plea agreement said
during the time, and it also came out afterwards Center
that in his own book that Hunter Biden wrote, he
also said his book that he was living in California
at the time that wire transfer would have come through.
(30:11):
So there's even a bigger problem there, and no one
said anything about it on stage. That was a huge mistake,
I think for all of them.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
Well, if you think about any moment, and this was
a long debate, this was a two hour debate and
by the way, I got to say, there's something weird
about the debate at the Reagan Library. So in twenty sixteen,
we had a debate at the Reagan Library, right on
the stage where they were, and the twenty sixteen debate
that was the CNN debate, and it went three hours.
It was the longest debate of the entire cycle. And
(30:42):
I remember, I don't know if this was true tonight,
but in twenty sixteen, the Reagan Library did not have
air conditioning that was made to survive the cleague lights
of a television debate, and so it was hot.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
And that many warm bodies in the room. People don't
realize as rooms get hot and you have that many
people in there.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
There was a whole audience of people that there are
bright lights. I remember by the third hour, we were
drenched in sweat and I was standing there. I was
actually standing, Mike Huckabee was next to me, Marco Rubio
was next to me. Actually, Marco, to his credit, had
a handkerchief which which he let both Huckabee and me
use because we were both sweating like crazy, and it
(31:23):
was by hour three. It was unpleasant. Now, the good
news is I think there were six people in the
entire world that stayed up to watch the third hour
of that debate, So it didn't matter that we all
looked like we were drowning in our own sweat. I
couldn't tell if they had the same issue this time,
but I will say in two hours, it was striking
(31:45):
that there was not really an effective case made. Here's
how we beat Joe Biden and that matters a lot.
Nor was there an effective case. You know, Dana Prino
tried to get to it when she said, Okay, write
down on your piece of paper who you're going to
vote off the island. And by the way, I will
credit the candidates for all of them saying no, we're
not playing that kind of BS game. That was the
(32:07):
right response for them to say no. But even though
you don't write on a card, you're not playing Jeopardy.
There wasn't really anyone making the case other than the Santis,
which is why I think he won tonight. There wasn't
really anyone making the case I'm the right standard bearer
to win the primary, and I'm the right standard bearer
(32:27):
to win the general and here's how and why.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
There was also a lot of missus people said, at
least in response online, that this debate was on Univision
and they didn't feel like the candidates did a good
enough job reaching out to Hispanic voters.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
Your reaction to that as well.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
Look, I think they did almost nothing. I mean to
Hispanic voters. Listen, the Hispanic community. Our community is fundamentally conservative.
It is culturally conservative. You look at the values that
resonate in the Hispanic CAAs community.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Family oriented, very family oriented.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
Family faith, patriotism, hard work, the American dream. Those are
values that are fundamentally conservative. You didn't see anyone saying,
you know what, you want to talk about the Hispanic community.
The Hispanic community in South Texas and in California and
Arizona's getting hammered by seven point six million illegal immigrants.
By the way, every candidate tonight got the number wrong.
(33:25):
They all said six million. Your numbers or are a
million and a half off. It's up to seven point six.
The candidates should get their numbers right. But they didn't
talk about the misery that is being imposed on the
Hispanic community by this crisis of illegal immigration. They didn't
talk about Hispanic families that are getting hammered by rising inflation.
(33:45):
They didn't talk about Hispanic families that are getting hammered
by rising crime rates. They didn't talk extensively about the
Democrat efforts to defund the police and George Soros prosecutors.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
They had some of that.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
Actually, their discussion of crime, there was some decent moments.
But the point you just made, Ben, nobody connected it
to the Hispanic community. No one connected it to the
African American community. And that's a point that I think
is important to make that I hope in subsequent debates
we get people making more clearly.
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Chalk subscriptions for life choq dot com. Lastly, Center, there
was another moment, and it's it's a viral moment. I understand,
(35:43):
and you can explain this. You want a moment. Every
candidate wants a moment when they're on stage and they
want to have these big moments that are talked about.
Nicky Haley tried to land one against the deck and
this is what it sounded like.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
Every time I hear you, I feel a little bit
dumber for what you say.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
I don't think that landed the way she was hoping.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
It didn't come across to me as I was watching
it is this you know, big moment. I get that
what she was trying to accomplish. Was that a mistake?
Speaker 3 (36:14):
Yeah, it was a mistake. It that moment was harsh
and it seemed too harsh. Look, look, Haley's a talented candidate.
She's a talented communicator. She's one of the best communicators
on that stage. She had a really good night in
the first debate. This one was not nearly as good.
That shot was mean spirited, it wasn't substantive in a debate,
(36:36):
I think you're almost always better disagreeing with someone on
substance rather than just sort of one line at hominem attacks.
And by the way, look, you can disagree with Evey
because you could say that he doesn't have the experience
to be president. You could disagree with him on policy,
but the guy's not dumb. He's a smart guy. So
(36:56):
the claim every time I listen to you, I feel
dumber like that, that is a pretty condescending comment. That
going back to my point before, in a debate, you
want truth and authenticity, you want the words coming out
of your mouth for people to say, yeah, yeah, that's right, Yeah,
I agree with that, and I don't think very many
people agreed with that, and so it diminished her more
(37:19):
than it diminished Vivek. Now, I do think the other
candidates on that stage are pretty chippy towards Vivek because
he was pretty condescending and nasty to them in debate
number one, and he made him shine. But there's some
grudges that were playing out tonight. I'll also point out
there that there were moments when when Nicki Haley and
Tim Scott were going at each other and they were
just yelling at each other, back and forth and back
(37:41):
and forth, and it was kind of a South Carolina
pissing fight, and my take on it, that didn't really
help either one of them. It was too parochial. I
don't know that a whole lot of people care about
the internescine fights in South Carolina. And I think the
(38:02):
effect of it is that both of them seem to
be taking their eye off the ball, that the objective
is first to win the primary and then to beat
Joe Biden in the general. And I think that back
and forth bickering didn't help either one of them in
that respect.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Yeah, it's gonna be very interesting to see who gets
kicked off that stage come Miami in the next debate there.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Don't forget.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
If you missed our big podcast yesterday, go back and
listen to it. We talked about those payments coming into
the Biden crime family from Beijing. That news is still
not being covered by the media. If you missed it,
make sure you go back and listen to that as well,
and share it on social media. Also in the in
between days between Verdict, and make sure you down with
(38:47):
my show, The Ben Ferguson podcasts as well. I'll keep
you update on the breaking news in between Verdict shows
and we'll see you back here in a couple of days.
Welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
It is verdict was center Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with you,
and it is our debate show. If you watched the
Republican debate, you saw some lively moments. Senator, you watched it,
I watched it. Give me your overall takeaway. Who was
the big winner and was there any even a second place?
Speaker 3 (00:22):
So you and I are recording this at is eleven
forty one pm East Coast time.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
I'm in DC.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
So the debate just ended a few minutes ago. I
gotta say my reaction to it. This was a bumpy debate.
There were a lot of rocky moments. I think most
of the candidates did not help themselves. But my clear
conclusion from tonight is the big winner was Ron de Santis.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Why is that?
Speaker 3 (00:47):
I did well? I did not think that in Debate one?
So remember Debate one. We came together and I said,
the winners in Debate one were Vivek Ramaswami and Nikki
Haley and a little bit Mike Pens and the real
winner was Donald Trump because all three of them were elevated,
and that hurt DeSantis, and DeSantis needs to make it
a two man race with Trump, and so that was
(01:07):
my take on debate one. I think going into the night,
Dessantus needed to do well, and I think he rose
to the occasion. I think he did by far the
best of anyone on the stage several reasons. Number one
is just the behavior of the others. I think they
bickered like children, and I don't think it helped them.
I think when they were just yelling at each other,
(01:29):
back and forth, and back and forth and back and forth.
When you see a bunch of people screaming at each other,
they don't look like presidents. They're not behaving like presidents.
Presidents don't have to yap at each other. And I
thought there were times, particularly early in the debate, when
the debate kind of got away from the moderators. As
the debate went on, the moderators did a better job
(01:51):
of getting a little bit of control of it and
having a little bit more discussion. But DeSantis had several
He had the best answers of the night. The single
best answer of the night was his answer on education,
and he was the topic came up about education, It
came up about school choice, and he gave a strong,
powerful answer about school choice. About how Number one Florida
(02:14):
implemented universal school choice. Florida's led the country in school choice,
so they've got a heck of a record to talk about.
He was asked about the attacks on their efforts to
root out critical race theory in Florida, and he directly
confronted that, and I thought it was a tight, crisp
answer that was strong. A second answer that was very
(02:36):
very strong is where he talked about having victories and listen,
the reason people got excited about Dissantis when he launched
the campaign is the victories that he had in Florida,
big policy victories. He emphasized that. The third answer that
was really strong is where he talked about winning, and
he talked about winning in Florida even as nationally we
(02:56):
were getting clobbered. In twenty twenty two, he won by
nineteen points. And I think he did an effective argument
in many ways. His strongest argument against Trump is that
he won by while many other candidates that Trump had
supported nationally did not win that cycle. And and and
his argument, you want a winner, you want someone who
(03:17):
can beat the Democrats. I'm that guy. I think he
articulated it much much better tonight than he did in
the first debate that that's why I think Ron de
Santus won tonight.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
You know, he mentioned that that you know, there's we've
lost the last three times. As he described it, right,
we were supposed to win in the last midterm elections.
We were supposed to win the election before that and
the one before that, and we didn't. And and he
he also compared in contrast as you mentioned, I think
extremely well, and it clearly clicked I think with people watching.
As I was watching it live, just like you were there,
(03:49):
I was like, okay, this is this is one of
those quasi moments where he was reminding people of history,
like not only did we win when when the nation
was losing, when the Republicans are losing on nights, we
should have won, but we want it expanded in Florida.
That was a potent moment to remind people that we
(04:10):
should have control of the Senate right now and we
don't because we had some bad candidate selection.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Let's just be honest.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Look, Republicans desperately want to win. The Biden record is
an absolute train wreck. And I got to admit I
lay awake at night in cold sweats that we will
see the Democrats re elected in twenty twenty four. The
damage they've done to the country in the last two
and a half years, Holy cow, if they get another
four what a bad outcome for the country. So, as
(04:37):
I'm looking for a candidate, I want someone to can
win the damn race. And in many ways that is
Desantus's strongest argument. And in the first debate he didn't
really make it, and he came a lot closer to
making it tonight, so I think he did better as
a result.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Let's talk about the poll numbers coming out of this
real quick, give me your predictions of who rises and
who We had already had one candidate out of Arkansas
who's fallen off the debate stage, did not qualify for
this one. Everybody's goal is to make it to Miami
to the next debate in what four or five weeks?
Speaker 1 (05:13):
That's obviously the center goal.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
But who helped themselves, who is going to go backwards
and who could be in real trouble.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Look, I think the ends of the debate stage we
saw Asa Hutchison fall off. I think the ends of
the debate stage are at real risk of being eliminated
from the stage. Doug Bergham. His numbers, it's not clear
that he qualified for tonight, but they allowed him on
the stage. But I think his numbers, he's going to
have to do a whole lot of movement to qualify
(05:43):
for the next debate stage. I think Mike Pence, he's
the vice president, former vice president of the United States.
He's a good man, he's a friend. But I think
he's right at the edge of not making the next debate. Also,
narrowing the debate stage is a good thing this race,
if there's going to be a real race. Look, in
(06:04):
many ways, this is sort of like a basketball playoff,
where it's a playoff to see who goes gets to
go against Donald Trump. And I guess you can sort
of think about it that Trump gets a bye. He's
the former president, he's decided to skip the debates. So
in some ways, ask.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
You this real quickly. Is that still you think the
smart strategy? Obviously, I think was the right strategy for
debate number one at the end of tonight, Was it
also the right strategy for him to skip debate number two?
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Maybe maybe not. Look, I think he's enough ahead in
the polls, the national polls, He's up forty plus points.
I mean, that's a strong lead. And I think his
his analysis, and it's not a crazy analysis, is he's
so far ahead, why would he go and from his
perspective elevate the other candidates. You know, you think about
(06:56):
in twenty sixteen, you had two debates. You had the
main debate and you had what everyone called the kid's table,
which were the candidates that were at one and two percent,
and very few people watch the kids table. What Trump
has effectively done by skipping the debate is he's trying
to turn everyone else into the kids table, like this
is not the real candidates, He's the only candidate. I
understand that strategy. That is a perfectly rational debate strategy.
(07:19):
I will say, you know, Trump got popped a little
more tonight than he did on the first night, and
in particular, I think desanis hitting him on abortion in life.
Look Trump's answer where he said it was a terrible
thing that the state of Florida passed a law protecting life.
That's an answer if you're talking to pro life activists
(07:42):
in Iowa. I don't know how you defend that answer.
And I think Trump did a good or rather dissantis
did a good job of really holding Trump to account
for it. Now, if he'd been there, Trump could have
given it an answer. Trump would have presumably said, look,
I'm the guy that appointed three justices that overturn Roe
versus Wade. I mean, he would have made a forceful response.
But he wasn't there. And that's one of the consequences
(08:05):
of not being there is someone can take a swing,
they can hit you, and there's not anyone there who's
gonna respond or defend you. So there were several shots
at Trump. I think that's the the two that hit
in any material way where I think DeSantis's point on
abortion hit. And I also think the general point about
(08:27):
we want to win and what Dessanis argued is that
he won in Florida while Trump supported candidates elsewhere we're losing.
Those were two shots that scored some blood. Now do
I expect major movements in the polls.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
No.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
I think the polls will be very similar next week
to where they are this week. So I don't think
you're going to see a dramatic move. But I think
Desanis took a meaningful step towards making this a two
man race, and the only conceivable way anyone has a
shot at beating Trump is for this to be a
two men raise, and I think this was a step
(09:05):
in that direction.
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center about age on the stage. There was a very
interesting dynamic on the stage where the elder statesman at
the far right was Mike Pence. If you were watching
the instant responses on social media, there were some people
that felt that he came across as maybe a little
bit too condescending to others on the stage. Some referred
(10:56):
to it as the Washington not it all arrogance. And
then you had the who had a pretty good debate
last time. I don't think he had as good of
a debate this time, that's my opinion. And you know,
he was getting hit from all sides tonight, a lot
of people attacking him on maybe some of his naivete
on things like China, and he even said, look, sometimes
(11:16):
I come across as and know it all, almost accepting.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
That about him.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Your reaction to that dynamic of two very different people
at very different stages in their career.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Yeah, Look, Vivek had a much rougher night tonight than
he did in the first debate. First debate, he did excellent.
He surprised a lot of people. He got on a
lot of people's radar. He really did well tonight. Look,
the other candidates don't like Vivec and they did not
hide that they were taking shots at him, and it
(11:48):
was that there was some pretty sneering moments. I do
think that the shot that scored the most was the
argument that several candidates made, that Nikki Haley made, that
Tim Scott made about being in bed with communist China,
and they made some pretty specific allegations of him being
paid by the same players that paid Hunter.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Biden five million by the way, paid to Hunter Biden
five million dollars, the same people, which when when you
hear that on stage, that's a that's a big for me,
a red flag, right.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
And Vivek did not have a good answer to that.
He he he just he didn't respond on the substance,
he just said, well, well, we need to follow Ronald
Reagan's eleventh commandment, so don't criticize me. And and and
I got to say in the last debate, Vivek did
not follow Ronald Reagan's eleventh commandment. And I will say,
(12:40):
to Tim Scott's credit, Tim's best moment was when he
turned to him and said, hold on a second, Vivek,
you said every one of us is bought and paid for.
Who the hell are you to say that. That was
a good moment for Tim because it really was a
pretty obnoxious thing for Vivek to say to allege that
the other candidates are bought and paid for. And if
you're gonna do that, if you're gonna say to the
(13:01):
other candidates, you guys are all prostitutes, you don't get
to complain moments later, Hey, don't criticize me, be nice
to me. We shouldn't be be criticizing each other. And
so I think that, uh.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
That was almost one of the big inexperienced moments when
I laugh when people say I want a new face
who hadn't done this before, and I'm like, until you don't.
And my point is sometimes experience in politics is actually important,
and it's important especially when you get elected. It's really
important when you're dealing with foreign leaders and world leaders
at a very high level, when you're dealing with negotiations.
(13:37):
If you've never been there before, this whole idea of oh,
I'm the new guy in the block, it's cute until
it's not.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Look, I think the job of president of the United
States is a very serious position. I think the burdens
of it are enormous. There's a reason why just about
every president who's ever served seems to age about twenty
years in the job. It is an insanely difficult job.
Speaker 4 (13:57):
You know.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
I'm reminded of when Trump was newly elected, and I
think it was March of twenty seventeen. Trump had heiding
and me and the girls to the White House for
dinner and it was a marvelous time. It was very
nice of him to invite them, and we brought our
girls there and as we're walking, we're walking by the
Rose Garden, Trump looks at me and says, Wow, who
(14:20):
knew this job was so tough? And I got to
admit I was. I am rarely at a loss for words.
I was genuinely flabbergasted. I was like, yes, some of
us kind of had that idea. I mean it was
really a kind of And listen, don't take that comment wrong.
(14:41):
I think when Trump was president, we accomplished an enormous amount.
But I also think this is a job that requires
a seriousness of purpose, a seriousness of execution, on ability
to communicate, to motivate, to get the job done, and
it is a I am generally skeptical of any candidate
(15:04):
who's never served in in any government position waking up
and saying, you know, I should be president of the
United States other than generals who won World Wars that
there's not a great history of that.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Great point when you look at this moving forward and
you sit there and you go, okay, I'm Donald Trump tonight. Afterwards,
I'm obviously going to watch this thing he did his
counterprogramming with you know, uaw et cetera. But afterwards, eventually
you're gonna sit down, You're gonna take a look at this.
Are you uneasy or do you still feel very confident
that you're still going to have a forty point lead
(15:43):
after all this?
Speaker 3 (15:44):
Oh, look, I think Trump will still have a big, big, lead,
but he's not happy that DeSantis did well. Trump would
have been very happy if if Ron De Santis had
sucked tonight, because as long as they're a bunch of candidates.
It's why in Debate one, I said the biggest winner
in Debate one was Donald Trump, because if there are
two or three or four people on the stage that
(16:05):
are gaining a pointer or two, he's winning. As long
as that field is fractured, he's winning. If DeSantis gets
some real momentum, if he makes it more of a
two man race, that's not ideal for Trump. And so
I'm confident Trump is not happy about that aspect. I
do think the next debate we will see one or
(16:26):
two people eliminated from the stage. I think the smaller
it gets, the more of a threat it poses to
Trump and everyone in the media who is saying this
race is over. Listen. That is at least a historical
at this point. At this point in the race, we're
still in September before the election. At this point in
the race, Jeb Bush was still the dominant leader. He
(16:48):
was starting to fade, and Scott Walker was becoming the
dominant leader. In twenty sixteen, after Walker, you had a
Ben Carson moment where he says for about two weeks
he had a huge surge, and then after that you
had Marco Rubio. And at the end of the day,
if you look at twenty sixteen, Trump and I went
(17:11):
head to head, we were one and two in almost
every single state. No other candidate won more than a
single state Kasikua, Ohio, Rubio one Minnesota, and Trump and
I won every other state in the country. I won
twelve states, He won the rest of them. So my
point is, the people who were dominant leaders in the
polls today in the twenty sixteen cycle did not win
(17:35):
a single state. So the world can change a lot.
That being said, Trump is still in a very strong position.
I mean, a forty point lead in the polls is
not nothing. It just doesn't mean the race is over.
As some in the media are wont to say.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Let's talk about foreign policy.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
I actually was a little bit disappointed in the depth
of that conversation, and I want to get your reaction
to it. There was obviously a lot of talk about China,
specifically with Vivek, but then you deal with Ukraine and
you deal with border. The border issue, for example, it
didn't seem to have a lot of depth there that
(18:12):
I think many people were hoping for.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Yeah, there wasn't a whole lot of substance. There wasn't
a whole lot of analysis of what caused the border crisis.
I don't think any of those candidates have spent significant
time at our southern border. I didn't get the sense
that any of them fully understood it. You didn't have
an explanation as to the to the real human tragedy
that our crisis of the southern border is and why
(18:37):
Joe Biden is directly responsible for it. Look, I will
say Chris Christie, Chris Christi is the one candidate on
that stage who attacks Trump and does so repeatedly. I
don't think he helped himself a whole lot tonight. So,
for example, one of his big attacks on Trump, and
he's been doing this on Twitter before, is he says
(18:57):
Trump didn't build the wall and he didn't make Mexico
pay for it. Now, look, I get that's probably a
pretty good line if you're dealing with hedge fund owners
and donors, but it's a stupid policy attack. Look, there
are things that I wish Trump had done differently as president,
but on immigration, his record on immigration is excellent. And
(19:21):
when Trump left the White House, we had the lowest
rate of illegal immigration in forty five years. He negotiated
the Remain in Mexico Agreement. The Remain in Mexico Agreement worked,
It worked spectacularly well. Joe Biden inherited an incredible success
on illegal immigration, and Joe Biden deliberately blew it up
(19:42):
within days of becoming president. And so I think Christy
attacking Trump. Look, do I wish he'd built more border wall, sure,
but not acknowledging that on securing the border. Donald Trump
did more to secure the border than any president we
have had in our nation's history, and in any candidate.
Not saying that is being dishonest. So if you want
(20:04):
to find grounds to disagree with Trump, fine, but that attack.
I don't know of a Republican voter who's persuaded by
that attack, unless it's someone that already hates Trump, and
then they're like, yeah, yeah, Mexico didn't pay for it.
It's like, come on, guys, I mean, he did more
than anyone else has ever done, and the results were
(20:24):
really good.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
And look, yeah, he was clearly trying Chris Christy was
clearly trying to have a moment. I want to play
that because it was a very interesting part of the
debate you just mentioned it. Here is Chris Christy, in
his own words.
Speaker 5 (20:36):
Governor Christie, as governor of a non border state in
twenty ten, you supported a path to citizenship, but when
you run for president in twenty sixteen you flipped saying
immigrants should be trucked like Edix packages. Where do you
stand now on a path to citizenship for eleven million
(20:57):
of on the commented immigrants.
Speaker 4 (20:58):
The problem is that since no one has done anything
since we first had this discussion thirteen years ago, we're
not in a position to be able to do any
of that anymore. What we have to do now is
first treat this like the law enforcement problem. It is.
Our laws are being broken every day at the southern
border every day, and Joe Biden and his crew is
(21:19):
doing nothing about enforcing that law.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
They are letting it go.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
And by the way, they announced during the presidential race
that we're going to.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Let it go.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
And we need to have a president who acts like
I did as governor, enforce the law first and foremost.
And that means what I'll do on day one is
sign an executive order to send the National Guard to
partner with Customs and Border Patrol to make sure that
we stop the flow of fentanyl over the border, but
(21:47):
also to make sure that we send a much different message.
We want you here in this country to fill the
six million vacant jobs we have, but only if you
come here to follow the law, and only if you
come here legally. Come here illegally, we will apprehend you
and we will send you back across the border from
which you came. And the fact is that until we
(22:08):
set a lawn order agenda in this country, not only
now but in the future, we won't be able to
continue this. And I'll look, I'll tell you this. Donald
Trump failed on this as well. He said he was
going to build a wall across the whole border. He
built fifty two miles a wall and said.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Mexico would pay for it.
Speaker 4 (22:24):
Guess what I think if Mexico knew that he was
only going to build fifty two miles, they might have
paid for the fifty two miles.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
But by the way, let center, if he would have
just stopped before he took the cheap shot at Trump,
which I don't think landed with anybody that was watching,
certainly not Trump supporters. It would have actually been a
pretty decent response to the question.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Yeah. Look, there is not a single human being on
planet Earth that thinks Chris Christie would be better on
stopping illegal immigration than Donald Trump was.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
There just isn't.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
The question began with, gosh, you flip flopped and you've
embraced amnesty repeatedly in your career, and Chris Christy built
his career as a blue state governor and a liberal,
demoderate Republican and so the attack. Look, I think in
debates and in politics, truth and authenticity matters that when
you have when you make a point that's from the heart,
(23:20):
that's real, that can land. And so it's why I
think Dessantus's point about we need to win and we
didn't win the way we should have in twenty eighteen,
twenty twenty and twenty twenty two, that's a real argument.
That's something primary voters are like, holy crap, we can't
lose in twenty four and I'm a little bit nervous.
I don't want us to lose, Like that's an argument
that has some teeth. The argument that Trump didn't care
(23:43):
enough about securing the border. It's just not true. And
I don't think it hurts any of the candidates to
acknowledge truth and reality to say, yeah, look, I mean,
we had some real successes on securing the borders. There're
more to do, sure, but you didn't have anyone explain
what caused this crisis was the decision one decision from
(24:07):
Joe Biden, which is to embrace catch and release, so
that now when illegal immigrants are apprehended, they let them
go and they don't deport them. As long as you
do that, you cannot solve the problem. That means the
next president. If you simply say, if you cross into
this country illegally, we will catch you, we will put
you on a plane, and we will fly you back
(24:29):
to your damn country, that's the answer. That's how you
secure the border. And you didn't have anyone with that clarity.
But I think Christie's answer on that it didn't land
because it was hitting Trump in an area of strength
and not an area of weakness.
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Speaker 1 (26:22):
Senator.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
I also want to talk about China and fetanyl for
a moment. You've talked a lot about fetanyl and the
issue at the border. This did seem to be something
that Republicans agreed on that we have a big problem.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
The issue is how do you fight back.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Nikki Haley said, time to go to war economically with China.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
As she described it, until they.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Stopped sending all the fetanyl into this country that's killing Americans.
She described it as they're at war with us. They're
taking our stealing our intellectual property. They're stealing everything then
get their hands on from us. They're setting up spy
bases in Cuba. They've done countless things that compromises countries,
spybal over this country as well, and this president clearly
(27:03):
seems to be compromise and cannot stand up to China.
I think we can all agree on that, but there
did seem to be a sent on stage that hey,
it's time to go on offense and to stop letting
China run all over us.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Well, look, you know it's interesting. You just said a
minute ago in your question you said this President Joe
Biden has compromised on China. It was interesting. There was
not a word said tonight about Biden's corruption, about the
WHI was shocking, and there was very little said about
Biden's record. There was very little said. What I found curious,
(27:39):
and it's why I think most of the candidates did
not have a great night tonight. There was very little
said about why they were the best candidate to beat
Donald Trump. And in the primary, that's the only question
is who can win the primary, And there was very
little said about why they were the best candidate to
beat Joe Biden. And at the end of the day,
that's what Republican primary voters are looking for. And it
(28:01):
was it was odd. When it came to Trump, most
of the candidates seem to forget that he existed, and
when it came to Joe Biden, by and large, most
of the candidates for god he existed, and you're trying
to prosecute a case. You're trying to make the case
that I'm the guy or I'm the gal to take
(28:24):
us to victory. And on China, look, there was some
rhetoric China's bad, China's bad, China's bad, But what we
didn't hear from anybody was a systematic, comprehensive plan to
how do we beat China. And I believe I've talked
about this a lot, that we need the sword of
systematic plan that Reagan had to win the Cold War,
(28:48):
a plan that takes on that that combats China's lies.
It's murder, its torture, it's genocide, it's espionage, it's theft,
its propaganda that goes after China, and there was very
little said about how specifically.
Speaker 4 (29:02):
We do that.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
There was some general rhetoric China bad, but not a
whole lot of substance. So therefore, what.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
I was shocked by what you just mentioned, and let's
dive into this for a moment. I think it was
a huge mistake to not bring up the big breaking
news that you and I broke on this podcast yesterday
in a.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
Quarter million dollars sent to Joe Biden's house.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Yeah, from Beijing, and no one mentioned it. On top
of the fact that it broke after we did that
show that based on the Plea deal agreement that was
given by David Weiss, it said in that plea agreement
that during the time that payment was made, the residence
for Hunter Biden was in California.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
That's in the plea agreement.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
That came out as kind of like, hey, if you
think that he was living in this house, that's the
same residents of the President of the United States of America,
you know, in Delaware, you're wrong. The plea agreement said
during the time, and it also came out afterwards Center
that in his own book that Hunter Biden wrote, he
also said his book that he was living in California
at the time that wire transfer would have come through.
(30:11):
So there's even a bigger problem there, and no one
said anything about it on stage. That was a huge mistake,
I think for all of them.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
Well, if you think about any moment, and this was
a long debate, this was a two hour debate and
by the way, I got to say, there's something weird
about the debate at the Reagan Library. So in twenty sixteen,
we had a debate at the Reagan Library, right on
the stage where they were, and the twenty sixteen debate
that was the CNN debate, and it went three hours.
It was the longest debate of the entire cycle. And
(30:42):
I remember, I don't know if this was true tonight,
but in twenty sixteen, the Reagan Library did not have
air conditioning that was made to survive the cleague lights
of a television debate, and so it was hot.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
And that many warm bodies in the room. People don't
realize as rooms get hot and you have that many
people in there.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
There was a whole audience of people that there are
bright lights. I remember by the third hour, we were
drenched in sweat and I was standing there. I was
actually standing, Mike Huckabee was next to me, Marco Rubio
was next to me. Actually, Marco, to his credit, had
a handkerchief which which he let both Huckabee and me
use because we were both sweating like crazy, and it
(31:23):
was by hour three. It was unpleasant. Now, the good
news is I think there were six people in the
entire world that stayed up to watch the third hour
of that debate, So it didn't matter that we all
looked like we were drowning in our own sweat. I
couldn't tell if they had the same issue this time,
but I will say in two hours, it was striking
(31:45):
that there was not really an effective case made. Here's
how we beat Joe Biden and that matters a lot.
Nor was there an effective case. You know, Dana Prino
tried to get to it when she said, Okay, write
down on your piece of paper who you're going to
vote off the island. And by the way, I will
credit the candidates for all of them saying no, we're
not playing that kind of BS game. That was the
(32:07):
right response for them to say no. But even though
you don't write on a card, you're not playing Jeopardy.
There wasn't really anyone making the case other than the Santis,
which is why I think he won tonight. There wasn't
really anyone making the case I'm the right standard bearer
to win the primary, and I'm the right standard bearer
(32:27):
to win the general and here's how and why.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
There was also a lot of missus people said, at
least in response online, that this debate was on Univision
and they didn't feel like the candidates did a good
enough job reaching out to Hispanic voters.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
Your reaction to that as well.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
Look, I think they did almost nothing. I mean to
Hispanic voters. Listen, the Hispanic community. Our community is fundamentally conservative.
It is culturally conservative. You look at the values that
resonate in the Hispanic CAAs community.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Family oriented, very family oriented.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
Family faith, patriotism, hard work, the American dream. Those are
values that are fundamentally conservative. You didn't see anyone saying,
you know what, you want to talk about the Hispanic community.
The Hispanic community in South Texas and in California and
Arizona's getting hammered by seven point six million illegal immigrants.
By the way, every candidate tonight got the number wrong.
(33:25):
They all said six million. Your numbers or are a
million and a half off. It's up to seven point six.
The candidates should get their numbers right. But they didn't
talk about the misery that is being imposed on the
Hispanic community by this crisis of illegal immigration. They didn't
talk about Hispanic families that are getting hammered by rising inflation.
(33:45):
They didn't talk about Hispanic families that are getting hammered
by rising crime rates. They didn't talk extensively about the
Democrat efforts to defund the police and George Soros prosecutors.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
They had some of that.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
Actually, their discussion of crime, there was some decent moments.
But the point you just made, Ben, nobody connected it
to the Hispanic community. No one connected it to the
African American community. And that's a point that I think
is important to make that I hope in subsequent debates
we get people making more clearly.
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was another moment, and it's it's a viral moment. I understand,
(35:43):
and you can explain this. You want a moment. Every
candidate wants a moment when they're on stage and they
want to have these big moments that are talked about.
Nicky Haley tried to land one against the deck and
this is what it sounded like.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
Every time I hear you, I feel a little bit
dumber for what you say.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
I don't think that landed the way she was hoping.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
It didn't come across to me as I was watching
it is this you know, big moment. I get that
what she was trying to accomplish. Was that a mistake?
Speaker 3 (36:14):
Yeah, it was a mistake. It that moment was harsh
and it seemed too harsh. Look, look, Haley's a talented candidate.
She's a talented communicator. She's one of the best communicators
on that stage. She had a really good night in
the first debate. This one was not nearly as good.
That shot was mean spirited, it wasn't substantive in a debate,
(36:36):
I think you're almost always better disagreeing with someone on
substance rather than just sort of one line at hominem attacks.
And by the way, look, you can disagree with Evey
because you could say that he doesn't have the experience
to be president. You could disagree with him on policy,
but the guy's not dumb. He's a smart guy. So
(36:56):
the claim every time I listen to you, I feel
dumber like that, that is a pretty condescending comment. That
going back to my point before, in a debate, you
want truth and authenticity, you want the words coming out
of your mouth for people to say, yeah, yeah, that's right, Yeah,
I agree with that, and I don't think very many
people agreed with that, and so it diminished her more
(37:19):
than it diminished Vivek. Now, I do think the other
candidates on that stage are pretty chippy towards Vivek because
he was pretty condescending and nasty to them in debate
number one, and he made him shine. But there's some
grudges that were playing out tonight. I'll also point out
there that there were moments when when Nicki Haley and
Tim Scott were going at each other and they were
just yelling at each other, back and forth and back
(37:41):
and forth, and it was kind of a South Carolina
pissing fight, and my take on it, that didn't really
help either one of them. It was too parochial. I
don't know that a whole lot of people care about
the internescine fights in South Carolina. And I think the
(38:02):
effect of it is that both of them seem to
be taking their eye off the ball, that the objective
is first to win the primary and then to beat
Joe Biden in the general. And I think that back
and forth bickering didn't help either one of them in
that respect.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Yeah, it's gonna be very interesting to see who gets
kicked off that stage come Miami in the next debate there.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Don't forget.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
If you missed our big podcast yesterday, go back and
listen to it. We talked about those payments coming into
the Biden crime family from Beijing. That news is still
not being covered by the media. If you missed it,
make sure you go back and listen to that as well,
and share it on social media. Also in the in
between days between Verdict, and make sure you down with
(38:47):
my show, The Ben Ferguson podcasts as well. I'll keep
you update on the breaking news in between Verdict shows
and we'll see you back here in a couple of days.
Host
Ben Ferguson
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