Building Winners: Tony Vitello on Culture, Development & the Future of College Baseball

Greg talks with Tennessee Baseball coach Tony Vitello about his coaching philosophy, building team culture, and navigating the modern college baseball world of transfer portals and recruiting. The conversation shifts to youth baseball and the problems Tony sees with how young players are being developed today. He talks about the pressure kids face, the lost art of proper sequencing in development, and what parents should look for in coaches.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Make sure you subscribe to both our YouTube channel and our RSS
feed for all future conversations here at you think
all right, so I am super pumped for today's conversation on you
think. One of my favorite coaches, my
my wife always jokes she's like she goes Tony Vitelo at
Tennessee. I kind of feel like he's like
your spirit animal, Greg, like you guys, you're intense like

(00:22):
coaching ball. Tony, the head coach, national
champion Tennessee man, I I can't thank you enough for
taking some time out. I know you're down in Miami
recruiting as we sit here chatting, but I really
appreciate you joining us for a for a fun combo here on you
think. My pleasure and thank you for
the intro. I'm fortunate enough to work at
a great place, but a part of what is a tremendous conference.

(00:46):
So it kind of puts you on a stage that, you know, sometimes
you feel like you don't deserve.But no, the intro helps my
confidence too, because I saw your previous guests and I was
like, man, Greg's falling off a little bit, Tom Brady, Malcolm.
So some pretty good names. Kudos to you for what you got
rolling. No, it's, it's, it's super fun.
And obviously having a chance totalk to Someone Like You who has

(01:08):
the perspective. And I, I want to jump into
recruiting. I want to jump into Tennessee.
I actually took one of my official visits coming out of
high school to Tennessee in the Phil Fulmer era back in the
early 2000s. But I want to start and then
obviously the national championship and we're going to
get into all that. But I want to start with like I
always feel like I can recognizea guy who grew up the son of a

(01:29):
coach. My dad was a 40 plus year high
school football coach in New Jersey, grew up, played for him.
He's the only coach I ever knew when I was a kid.
I know your dad is a legendary coach.
You played for him, soccer, baseball, multi sports.
I want to start there like give everyone a sense.
Where does your competitive spirit come from?

(01:50):
You know your fire what what gotyou into this coaching world and
how much of it was was your father?
It was a ton of it. Of course, my mother was there
too, to support him and, and getus to all the sporting events
that were going on. I think like, you know, your,
your episode with Tom was incredible.
I think he had three older sisters too.
That's what I did. So I always tell our players any

(02:12):
of my faults, you can blame it on that.
I was the youngest, had three older sisters, but they were
competitive too. A lot of them, you know, they
partook in athletics too. But it all came from my dad.
I mean, his distaste for losing wore off on you, whether you
knew it or not. So you found yourself extremely
competitive at a young age. And then I was able to sit on

(02:33):
the bench. Sometimes the players didn't
like that because they wanted tosay things.
I know you kind of had the experience too.
When your dad is a disciplinarian, you hear things
and see things and, and maybe people don't appreciate the
values they're getting from thatcoach.
But I really got a lot out of sitting on those benches or just
being at different sporting events at my high school to
Smith Jesuit High in Saint Louis.

(02:55):
And and my dad coached about every sport you can imagine.
Yeah, and, and I know you playedmultiple sports.
Like how critical was that for you?
And, and obviously now you've made baseball your career, but
like, how much perspective have you drawn not only as a player
yourself, but now as a coach? How much perspective have you
drawn just from being exposed todifferent sports starting at a

(03:15):
young age? Yeah, a ton.
And that's the specialization question is a big one.
But I reflect on on my personal deal and I wasn't a superstar
player, but I got to be around all these different guys and
coaches. So I still look back like a
third grade basketball coach said something to me that stuck
with me forever. You know, all these teammates I
had in in a variety of sports, Alot of them are still friends to

(03:38):
this day. And some of them I look back on
and they're they're poor examples of how to be a teammate
that I'll bring up to to our team.
And then even more so there's good examples.
And it's like, hey, this guy, you know, back in the day is he
he became a legend because not because of his talent, but
because he was such a great teammate.
All right, so let's stay there because I want I.

(03:58):
So I coach a 13 year old travel baseball team here in Charlotte.
I've had a lot of these boys since they were nine.
We're now just getting to the big field.
That's a whole transition for a later day that kids are starting
to experience. But something that I really try
to implement and I'm not a baseball guy.
I've learned baseball just through my children.

(04:19):
I played young kid baseball, nothing at any significant
level. I apply a lot of like the
football culture, things that I know because that's obviously my
only perspective and I try to implement it into our baseball
team, you know, being great teammates.
A lot of the things you're talking about there.
Talk to me about what you found as being the key kind of

(04:40):
fundamental course of like building great culture team
specific to baseball. Like, give me an idea of what
should I be doing, What should our listeners be doing as they
kind of venture through this world of of youth baseball and
then into high school and beyond?
Yeah, I think just baseball on the whole, it could be big
leagues, it could be the the level you're talking about is

(05:01):
there's a lot of downtime in baseball.
So personality shouldn't just beencouraged.
It's kind of a requirement. There's only, you know, for our
sport, there's probably 20 to 35minutes of actual action that go
on during the game. But the game could last three
hours. So that time in the dugout, the
time in pregame spitting seeds, the conversations that take

(05:23):
place post game, those are so crucial.
You know, if you win, you go getice cream.
That is just as much of a part of it as it is hitting with the
bases loaded. And I think if you're going to
have all that downtime and personality is a key ingredient.
Everybody should be very comfortable in their own skin.
So one that we can laugh about. You're younger than I am.

(05:43):
But that Philadelphia Phillies team with Darren Dalton, John
Crook, Lenny Dykstra, no coincidence that they were
winning. I mean, they had a lot of guys
that that had ability and confidence that came with it.
But holy cow, the personalities.And then Kevin Millar with the
Boston Red Sox when they quote, UN quote, broke the curse, you
know, just his personality on that team and now on TV all the

(06:05):
time. And the Cubs, my dad's from
Chicago Bears fan, by the way. So if you want to stop and talk
about Devin Hester at any time, we can do that.
But but yeah, I think that Cubs team finally kind of getting
over the hump was a bunch of guys saying, hey, love it or
hate it, we're the Cubs and we're writing history this
particular year. And Joe Madden, I think, really

(06:26):
unlocked the ability for a lot of those guys to be true to who
they are as individuals. Is there like a fine line
between loose and fun and like, silly?
Now mind you, I'm not coaching high level Division One athletes
at 22 years old, right? My kids are 13, they're in 7th
grade. They're silly.
So here I am in like my footballmode where like, everything's

(06:49):
the end of the world. Every detail matters and now as
I've experienced baseball, I'm like there is a lot of downtime.
We are kind of shooting the shitin the dugout.
We are not everything is bottom of the ninth, you know, bases
loaded like. So how do we find the balance
between loose, fun but focused? Yeah, I, I think you've been in

(07:10):
a locker room before or during agame where you felt like the
guys got complacent because you,you've been on so many winning
teams and that's a very eerie and uncomfortable feeling.
And you wish you could go back in time and, and stomp it out.
So for me as a coach, EE, our guys are young.
I think giddy is kind of a word that sticks out that kind of
encompasses that feeling you start to get because loose is

(07:34):
so, so key, especially when you get to a heightened moment.
You know, the, the Conor McGregor fight that was
legendary against Jose Aldo. One guy looks like he wants to
kill the other guy. And then Conor McGregor looks so
loose that the commentators, youknow, Rogan throws that out.
Next thing you know, it's over. So loose is a very key
ingredient, but so is focused. And you know you, I have a lot

(07:57):
of respect for you. We get to recruit our athletes.
You're inheriting a lot of your guys.
And they're they're 12 and 13, very various interests.
So if you said to them, hey, we got to be loose but focused,
they'd probably be like, hey, man, what the hell?
You know it. But it's the same as holding a
baseball. You got to hurt it, hold it firm
but loose. These balances are key
ingredients and I think kids need us to help educate them on

(08:18):
on what that is. And you know, it's kind of like
we do a lot of travel for recruiting.
You get in the rental car and I like my base in treble the way I
like it. The previous person may have
not. So one thing you can do for
these kids is figure out those dials and you're never going to
get them perfect and that's kindof the fun of it.
But there does need to be that balance.

(08:39):
I'm like picturing myself like next weekend at our tournament,
what can I be better in the dugout?
And my mind is racing right now.All right, so you're down in
Miami, you're recruiting the PBRNational kind of showcase world
that's going on. I want to dive into some of the
youth baseball things. I don't want to see issues, but
just the youth baseball reality that is playing out that I'm

(08:59):
sure is very different. And you live it every single
day. But whether I'm sitting in your
team meeting at Tennessee or I'ma high school kid or a grad
transfer kid or whoever it is and you're recruiting me, like
who are you trying to recruit? Like give us an idea of the the
ultimate target, the ideal recruit to come to the
University of Tennessee to try to win Tony, win national

(09:21):
championships with you. Like who is that kid?
Yeah, and that's kind of a variation of the question we
often get at the at the park. It'll be, you know, like a, a
mom. Hey, I don't want to bother you.
So you're watching the game, butwhat are you guys looking for?
And, you know, there is no magicanswer other than what you just
said. You're looking for someone that
can help you win. So if we backtrack it a little
bit, what kind of resume does that individual have?

(09:44):
Now our scholarships are changing and things like that.
But like, for instance, do you have good grades?
Because if you can, you can get an academic scholarship or at
the very least, we know you're going to be eligible and you're
going to be organized and then, you know, so on and so forth.
And a guy might be just blazing fast, you know, was joking about
Hester there, but a guy could becrazy.
He would. Have been a good base dealer.

(10:04):
Yeah, no doubt. He's got hot side all day.
No doubt, no doubt. I feel like he was that guy that
you knew he was supposed to be fast, but until you saw it in
real time, you, you couldn't catch up.
And that's why he was able to tosurprise some people even in a
Super Bowl kickoff. It was fun to watch.
But you know, if you're fast, maybe you get a little leeway

(10:26):
from a scout on the hitting tool.
So the bottom line is you want your resume to be as strong as
possible. So one kid, yeah, you might end
up on Twitter hitting a big Homer because, you know, you
captured that moment and you have power.
But what about the other 20 at bats that weren't captured on
Twitter where they strikeouts? Are you struggling to put the

(10:46):
ball in play? So I feel like the better resume
you have, the more attractive you are to us.
And then it'll jumping into playing time stuff.
Guys that are in college need tobe able to come in to me, not
have their parents or agent reach out about playing time.
And if you come into the office,you better bring your resume
with you. Not literally, but figuratively

(11:07):
speaking, say, hey, this is likein the weight room, I'm our best
worker. Or, you know, I realize I'm not
our best hitter, but on defense I can do this, this and this.
So it's important for kids to tobe well-rounded.
And you brought up you, you brought up the scholarship
thing. And I want to dive into that,
'cause I know a lot of our, our families, our listeners, even my
own family and the kids that we go to school with, we go to a

(11:29):
very competitive baseball schoolhere in Charlotte.
We've got some really high levelkids.
Our shortstop last year got drafted.
Like it's a really good program that produces a lot of power for
and, and draft pick players. So we hear all these stories
about who's being recruited by who and who's hearing from what
schools. And then there's always the
question of how many scholarships are there?

(11:49):
Is it a 11.7? Is it going to go to 30?
Is every school going to have the money to go to 30?
Like what tell us boots on the ground, What exactly is the
current state and the future of the of high level Division One
college baseball? And as far as the scholarships
and all of that. Yeah, it's a mess and

(12:10):
fortunately, fortunately, it's amess off the field and
pertaining to logistics on the field, you're dealing with more
coverage, more interest, more **power the coaches.
And I'm, I would speak on my support staff.
There's a higher level of coaching.
It's become insane how big of a party Omaha is.

(12:31):
And then also some of the other levels.
I mean, if you go to a JUCO World Series in Grand Junction,
it's one of the best events you could ever go go to.
So we're doing great there off the field.
It's just a crazy time and there's a a lot to manage.
And and so where we're headed now with college baseball in
particular is a complete imbalance.
There are some major universities that do not have

(12:54):
fully funded scholarships, meaning being able to hand out a
full scholarship or one that's similar to a basketball or
football player. A lot of the schools in the SEC
now can sit a family down and say, hey, we're going to pay for
your tuition fee, these books and also your dorm and your food
too. It's the first time in the
history of college baseball everthat could some that some could

(13:15):
do that, but there's a lot that can't.
And so, you know, I don't know how far date this far back you
could date this, this imbalance with any sport in college, but I
think it's probably more prevalent than ever.
And it's, it's kind of frustrating.
I'm fortunate to be kind of withthe haves and the have nots.
If you're going to divide it into that or I mean, we had
105,000 at that football game last Saturday.

(13:37):
But I wouldn't mind it if you know what, yeah, Oregon's tied
into Nike, but you only get 6 uniforms.
Everybody can have six uniforms Max.
Everyone's locker room can only be this maximum size, not four
stories. I would love to make it as even
as possible. So like you did.
I was never man enough to play football.
I guess my dad coached soccer too.

(13:59):
But let's just line up face maskto face mask, chest to chest,
whatever it might be, and find out who's better.
We're getting more and more awayfrom that in college, I think.
So give us an idea at A at a fully funded.
So at the University of Tennessee, how many fully funded
scholarships every year are you guys able to carry?

(14:19):
The rosters have shrunk to you could technically have an
infinite amount of players in the fall if you wanted to.
So in our league, it's so competitive.
No one, no one had a hundred players, but you know, for every
player you might hit on an All American or something like that.
Now it's being pushed down to 34.
So somewhere between 35 and 30 players is is just for brevity's

(14:41):
sake, is going to be the maximumthat a Division One team could
have. Some of these teams are still
plugged into 11.7, so if you do the math, you're looking at like
40% is a huge scholarship for us, who you asked about, we're
able to give most of our playersa full scholarship, which is
kind of the, it's kind of easy. It was hell having this the the

(15:03):
11.7 conversation. So let's say just so we're all
clear, like that's only within the last couple years, right?
Yeah, yeah, only the last coupleyears and you people were using
NIL to actually, and I don't know if I'm going to get thrown
in jail or not, but let's just be honest, people were using NIL
to cover the the the blind spotsfor the 11.7.
So at least you know, hey, thesekids are presenting so much or

(15:25):
representing the universities and and presenting so much value
for them. They shouldn't have out of
pocket cost. A common great story.
I'm sorry, I don't remember his his name, but the left fielder
for Coastal Carolina, he was their spirit animal and their
leader and one of their best players.
They went a World Series in national championship and he's
like $150,000 in college debt. That just doesn't make sense.

(15:47):
So nil did help cover that up. Well, now instead of sitting
down and saying we love you, butwe can only provide 50%, you owe
the other 50. Now the new 11.7 conversation is
what about Rev share? What about nil?
And the thing that sucks about it, Greg, is it's it's super
Gray. Like, what can you say?

(16:08):
But what are other teams saying anyway?
And it's, again, I feel like we're a long way away from being
let's make this as competitivelyequal as possible and just find
out who's better at either scouting or developing or
coaching or just who's the better, more confident team on
that day. Yeah, it it, the whole thing is
so fascinating. I want one more follow up to
that and then I want to talk about like the youth baseball

(16:30):
scene for a minute because I think so much of our so many of
our listeners like that's where they are currently living.
I know that's where I currently AM, but to stay on that last
conversation for one more second.
So on August 1st, that's when all the rising juniors are now
able to be contacted by coaches.So a bunch of families we know
of high school kids, they're excited.
Who's calling me? The biggest question all these

(16:52):
families have is with the portal, with high school, with
transferring and with it, with the current landscape, is there
a blueprint to the makeup of a roster being recruited kids out
of high school transfer portal kids, JUCO kids?
Like how do you ever or does it change every year?
Like what? What is your approach to how you

(17:13):
handled allocating now those 30 to 35 spots when it's no longer
just 18 year old high school kids coming every year and let's
coach them up? Yeah, ultimately it's chaos and
as as well as college baseball coaches are being paid or funded
programs being funded, you got to have a plan in place.

(17:34):
But a common question is OK, nowit's 34 players only how many
pitchers, how many hitters? And are you going to do 2 way
guys? Well, the draft can interfere
with all that in a hurry for anyprogram.
So it truly is chaos. And then same thing for a kid
that's being recruited. Again, programs are well funded.
So there's some very smart and savvy individuals that are able

(17:56):
to talk to kids and, and sometimes parents, you know,
this might be 1 should parents be on speakerphone or not?
I mean, but sometimes parents don't get word what's going on
at all. Next thing you know, their kid
wants to commit to somebody and they don't know what's been
said. So the bottom line is there,
there are some good sales pitches and for good reason out
there from, from certain programs.

(18:18):
But you know, for a kid to make his decision, I think he truly
just needs to find a good match.Where does he vibe with and who
has the trends that he likes? So a school may have a trend for
more portal guys or less portal guys are in the middle.
But two years from now, you can't predict what's going to
happen because of the draft. Or maybe here's a good example.
And, and, and this is a personaltangent.

(18:41):
I always hated the hey, you're going to be our third baseman
or, or the guarantees because it's open competition.
And you know, one thing I thought the portal might stomp
out is if you think about it, OK, how many catchers you going
to have in this recruiting class?
Only one. And we're not going to recruit
one next year. I can make it sound as good as I
want, but if there's a kid from Knoxville, TN that goes to X,

(19:05):
you know, mid major and is an all American and is the Team USA
catcher, he's arguably the best guy in the country.
He calls, I'm in the portal. I want to go to Tennessee.
I'm pretty confident we're taking them.
You're taking them. Everybody listening here is, is
going to take the kids. So I think more than ever, it's,
hey, put the playing time thing aside and just focus on what

(19:30):
trends in this program. Hey, they produce great hitters
or most of their pitchers. They they they really produce
great lefties, whatever it mightbe.
And just kind of steer it towards that.
And also know that this ain't a perfect world.
I went to three different schools.
I know you made an adjustment from Notre Dame to Miami all for
the better. It's not the end of the world if
it's not the best decision. No question.

(19:52):
And with all that being said at a lot and again, I'm not asking
you to compare. I know obviously Tennessee is at
the top of this world. So again, I'm not asking you to
compare and contrast, but just in general.
Where is development in all of this?
Like what is your approach internally about development
when now you can just, sorry, excuse me, when you can

(20:15):
accumulate more good players andtransfer portal and recruit any
kid you want in the country? How vital through this entire
process is development? Yeah, I think it's Blurred
Lines. I everybody says it.
I mean, if if you're good enoughand, and you know, I'm willing
to bet your son is, he's probably a little bit athletic,
but the key thing he's going to get is he's going to know how to

(20:36):
navigate sports. And I think that's undervalued.
He's going to know how to navigate the locker room and
failure and social media and things like that from your
guidance. So regardless of what level it
is, if he does continue, you better be prepared for every
coach to say we're going to develop you.
You know, and it's funny in a day and age where people can
Google, like I could tell you, hey, Knoxville, 2 1/2 hours from

(20:58):
Nashville. Well, you can need to take my
word for it or only take you 2 seconds to Fact Check me.
But I think for a topic that's so important, there's not a lot
of fact checking that goes on. It's hey, he said they develop
guys, so he they develop people.And I think it's important to do
a little bit of research becausethat word in particular, and I'm
just speaking on the whole more from my dad's perspective than

(21:21):
what we're doing at Tennessee, It it's fading a little bit.
And I don't think it's all coach's fault.
I think it's kind of the environment.
And I'll speak on a sequence in a minute.
But I think one thing you, you and I saw with our dads is they
were the, the Bob Knight type. And, and I always say that like
my dad wasn't throwing chairs orstrangling anybody.
And I got a lot of respect for Bob Knight, but they were the

(21:42):
almost kind of the dictator, it seemed, because they were so
disciplinarian. I, I don't think it was the, the
yelling or the intimidating thatwas getting the teaching done.
I think it's the people that aremost like that.
And there still are some like Coach Barnes at Tennessee is, is
really hard on our guys in practice.
But the reason he is is he's a man of principle and he believes

(22:05):
more in developing guys as men of faith, as men in the
community and guys who take the,you know, take advantage of of
what they've been given. And those are his principles and
the winning and the getting drafted and all that stuff falls
way down the priority list. So development becomes very
high. But let's go with and I'll be

(22:25):
smart aleck, let's go with SlickWillie coach and he's more of a
salesman and and isn't really interested in in helping a kid
that's failing. He'll just recruit the next guy
that's better. Well, I got to support that
approach a little bit too in this day and age because, OK,
let's say your son's good enoughto be a PBR or perfect game All
American. He's going to and let's just say

(22:48):
it's a kid named Jay or Jake or John Smith.
He he's going to be good enough to potentially get drafted.
So let's say he says no to the draft, shows up at school.
He's had all these accolades. I'm a freshman.
Hey, I could have went and played for the Yankees minor
league team. I should be playing here.
Well, maybe he doesn't quite know the game that well because

(23:08):
it's showcase, showcase, showcase.
And he's not ready to play against, you know, Oregon or
South Carolina or Florida State because he doesn't know the game
and he needs some seasoning. Well, what's the first instinct
now out there is move on to the next team.
So there's no seasoning, there'sno synergy, there's nothing like
that. It's just this bouncing around
and and in some cases it works and and some people need an

(23:31):
adjustment in the scenario they're in.
But it's a two way St. on this development thing, probably
fading a little more than it should.
Well, what you just described isyouth baseball.
So now we're going to go a little younger now, right?
And I'm not even talking about at the high school level.
I'm saying this is happening at 10 years old.
They haven't even gotten to the big field yet.

(23:53):
And everything you just described, that's youth
baseball, the days of practicingwith your kids and one core team
and playing with them, win, loseor draw.
You show back up to practice on Monday after Sunday's PG event
and you get back to work and youwork on your first and thirds
and you work on your double cutsand whatever you didn't do well
over the weekend, you get back to work.

(24:14):
Right now what we're seeing, andobviously you're recruiting a
lot of these kids later on in the pipeline is instead of
teaching my shortstop and developing them to get better,
there's 10 shortstops within twohours that could be at the game
on Saturday for pool play. I'll get one of them to come.
And now instantly I'm a better coach.
So like, where are the lines have really been blurred?

(24:35):
And I'm very curious what you'reseeing coming out of the high
school ranks as a result of this, Like our kids less
developed, are they better skilled baseball players with
less understanding of the game as a result of this early kind
of format that we've created at the younger levels?
Yeah, and, and I went and watched.
I'm sure you saw Drew Gilbert play for us a ways back.

(24:57):
And now the world's kind of finding out who he is.
I went and saw him play just to see him in a big league uniform
and was able to speak to AGM andwe both talked.
I think everyone suffering the consequences all the way up to
the big leagues where guys are super skilled, but there's less
development, less coaching, lessaccountability and therefore
less understanding of how to actually play the game to win.

(25:21):
And it starts all the way trickle down effect.
You know, Little League. I'm I'm such a fan of I'm not a
father, but I sure love when thehelmets are bigger than the
kids. It's just funny as hell to see.
But it isn't too much longer after that that it's time to
have a walkout song and make sure you got the fanciest uni's.
And maybe it's like trades are being made like, hey, this kids

(25:43):
no longer good enough, but we saw this kid that is.
And so it starts, the process starts of a high school kid not
really knowing how to win a game, maybe a coach like your
dad or my dad jumps him a littlebit and it's like, holy cow.
So now he's going to transfer high schools.
We get the kid and I kind of already gave the portal story.
So a little bit of a vicious, I don't want to call it a cycle

(26:04):
because it's a, it's a ladder that's going up and it's maybe
an underdeveloped ladder if I'm going to be critical.
Yeah, no. And obviously your perspective
so that the next level to that is give us your advice.
And this from as a coach, just as someone who's lived this
world, you see what 1718 year old kids look like entering the
highest level. Every baseball kid in the

(26:26):
country, if you ask them would say, yes, I want to go play
baseball at Tennessee. Right.
Like you have your pick of the litter to to some degree with,
you know, a handful of the otherschools.
But like, what are you seeing? Like, who are these kids?
Are they playing too many games?Is it too showcase driven?
Is it too highlight reel driven?Right.
We all see you mentioned before,we all see the home run on

(26:46):
Instagram, but nobody saw you missed the bunt to sack a runner
and your guy got thrown out of third.
Like we don't ever show the struggles.
We only show the highlights. So like, is there a difference
when you first started and what you were seeing at the high
school ranks, especially? How different is it to what you
see today? Yeah, I think it is a little

(27:07):
different. There's not as much cohesiveness
with the the groups of guys thatplay together where you kind of
form a bond and it truly is our team against your team.
And there's fewer tournaments where you're actually trying to
win the trend. It actually was really right
about when I started in in summer ball.
The word exposure first started got thrown around and I

(27:29):
literally remember like not understanding what was being
talked about. But you know, we had a couple
big leaguers on our team and they kind of did need to be
seen, but they were so good. I know you had a good story on
here. Like they'll find you a guy was
throwing in a barn or something and and somebody located them.
So it is different. You threw out so many different

(27:51):
things. A blanket answer for a lot of
this stuff is just I think there's a lack of balance.
I don't someone on one of your previous podcasts talk about
like kids wearing gear like at age 8, they now have all the
gear is a common and and other players I've talked to complain
about that. Well, how do you know that kids
not like the hardest worker on his team and isn't the guy who

(28:13):
will run face first into a wall to catch a family ball?
I think they're there just needsto be a balance and and maybe
step one is, let's say a new neighborhood.
None of these kids have played baseball.
They just decide to start a teamand they're it's a nine U team.
The parents and the kids need toget together.
What are we competing at? Like what are the things we're

(28:34):
trying to win or get better at? Is it who has the best uniforms?
How many social media clicks we can get?
You know, are we trying to win? Like like what is that going to
get you at 9:00? You could even advance to like
13. You, you know, you're going to
turn into the next Uncle Rico. For those that have seen
Napoleon Dynamite, you know, is this really when we're trying to

(28:55):
peek out? So, you know, one of my buddies
in a athlete group tech sent there was a nine U team that had
a signing day. And you know, at first instinct
on Twitter, it's like, hey, that's too much blah, blah.
But also I'm not in that parent group.
So I don't know what values are being shared before or after the

(29:16):
game or during practice and things like that.
So I think you can do some of the fancy stuff and you can post
some things, but I don't think you want to get so skewed.
Like I said, you know, on the Twitter thing or the Instagram
thing, like, man, this kid only hits homers and double S.
Like maybe, you know, as a parent, maybe post something
that the second baseman did. Even though your kid is the

(29:38):
shortstop. I would, I would love to see at
Lake Point. You've, you've been there in
Atlanta, if there's two quads, so there's 8 fields.
How many parents are going around there?
And like after the game praisingother kids like if if and it's
easier if you know you're one ofthe holidays or something.
But if you're your kid is one ofthe better players, you probably

(29:58):
know it and he's probably already getting praise.
So maybe dude, the left fielder that catch you made or you threw
that ball to 2nd and held that guy.
I don't think we win that game without that, that that would
create such a better environment.
So if anything, maybe there's one little piece of advice a non
parent could throw out. No.
And all this advice is so critical because then I am going
to ask for another piece of advice.

(30:19):
So like a question that we get from people all the time, but
again, I'm applying other sport perspective and I'm trying to
apply it to basketball, baseball, soccer.
I don't have obviously the expertise of that pipeline of
living my whole life like I do with football, which I have a
little better understanding. But like I get this question a
lot about football. So I'm going to ask you about

(30:40):
baseball. They ask me, OK, how do we find
the right coach for my 10 year old to play football?
When I show up to practice, whatshould I be looking at?
What tells me it's safe? What tells me the instruction is
good, the messaging? And I tell them about, hey, make
sure they teach it the right wayto tackle.
Make sure they're teaching, you know, toughness.
But not in the old school way where we're just going to bash

(31:01):
our heads into each other. Accountability, not a lot of
standing around, keep kids engaged, like all these things
in the football world. So I'm going to ask you, you
show up to a youth baseball practice.
What are the first two or three things you're looking at for you
to say? You know what, if I had a kid or
if you were asking me, should I put my kid in this environment?
My answer would be yes. Yeah, step one is be present.

(31:22):
I, it's not youth, but a lot of the kids I coach, if they're not
going to move on to pro ball, they want to coach.
And I just tell them like the first step to being a really
good coach is just be present. And we probably had the same
experience when we were younger,like all the time involved and
also being present means being there physically, but also so
mentally being engaged. And then also is there an energy

(31:45):
and a passion to it? A lot of these kids may fall out
of love with the sport that they're playing for a variety of
reasons. But at the very least, they
should see an example of like, hey, this is I've this guy's
been at his job. It's recess.
Now, you know, I've been at school all day with my friends
or I've done, you know, I had todo my chores hopefully or
whatever. Now this is resort recess.

(32:07):
It's it's time to enjoy this andhave fun.
And even when the negative things happen, do you spin it
into a positive? So if, if Steve makes a mistake,
it's like Steve, you just did all your teammates a favor.
You made that mistake and now wecan go over it.
And now your buddies aren't going to make that mistake.
Hopefully you don't mind us, youknow, depending on how young the
kid is, I can use a little different language, but

(32:29):
hopefully you don't mind us using it as example.
But now we can do it a differentway and it might help us win a
game. And this is just practice.
So you didn't really cost us anything.
So are we spinning things into apositive?
Because at the end of the day, if a young kid is in a group,
and it might just be a math group, it might not be at A at a
field. But if a young kid is engaging,
especially nowadays and not sitting alone and not having

(32:52):
people to talk to, he's engagingin a group and he's challenging
himself to do things and he's failing, then we got good stuff
going on for that kid. He's making progress in life.
And you know, I could go on to say, hey, make sure you present
kids with only so many kids become big leaguers or Division
One athletes. But you know, the syndrome,
every parent's going to say, I call it this Charlie Sheen wives

(33:15):
syndrome. Like at what point what do you
marry Charlie Sheen and think you're going to be the the last
one? You're going to be the you're
the end of the of the cycle. What's up guys?
Do you want custom fan wear likethis cricket shirt for Charlotte
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(33:36):
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Youth dot, Inc. Now back to our episode.

(33:58):
It's so true, right? Like reasonable expectations.
We talked about goal setting andhaving things and we could
debate whether that's productiveor not.
But like we always tell our kidsare when we're playing 12U
baseball, our number one goal was to not get you recruited by
Tennessee. That is not what we want you to
walk to your middle school coach, next year's 7th graders
on the big field for the first time.

(34:19):
And when you show up to tryouts,that middle school coach goes, I
want this kid on my team. He knows how to get in and out
of the dugout. He knows how to do a double cut.
He knows how to back up third base if he's the pitcher on a
double off the wall. Like he knows how to do all the
little things. He's a great teammate.
You don't know if he struck out or if he hit the ball off the
wall. Like can we teach you all those

(34:39):
things? So when you show up to your
middle school, you can have a good reason, you know, a good
experience with your middle school team.
And now that we're at 13, you and they are in middle school.
Hey, you're 2 years away from having to try out for the high
school. And are you JV?
Are you varsity at what age and all that?
So like there's always the preparation for the next step.
I what I see so much going on isit's a race to 12, right?

(35:01):
It's at 12 years old. We need to decide which kids,
they're varsity baseball players, which kids are
collegiate baseball players and which kids have no chance.
And those kids get pushed to theside.
And I look in there and I say they haven't even stepped foot
on the big field. They haven't hit puberty.
They've never had a girlfriend. They've never drank a beer.
And we're going to decide what kid at 18 years old, Tony

(35:21):
Vitello, is going to come in andrecruit to Tennessee?
Like it just doesn't make any sense to me.
Yeah, no. And and you triggered a word
because I'd kind of given this some thought because I
appreciate you having me on and was was a fan of yours.
And I want to slide into the onecomment so so we don't end it.
I don't say it on behalf of all my buddies that are big sports

(35:41):
fans a lot. A lot of them watch way more TV
and probably gamble and stuff. They think so highly of your
work. I mean, obviously we're
outstanding on the field, but I'm not so sure even better in
the booth. So kudos to you for that.
And yeah, you bet. And you trigger a word.
I had sequence. Sequence has been lost.
And I should have included that in my little portal.

(36:02):
Tangent is yeah, development hasbeen derailed in some areas
because sequence is so out of whack.
And it does. It is such a super race.
And part of that is just nature of the the kids are thinking
that too, because what is their world?
It's TikTok. When you and I grew up, if you
wanted to hear your favorite song, you got to wait for
somebody to call it in or you got to wait for the record to

(36:25):
come back around. Now Spotify, it's things instant
gratification, it's fast, fast, fast go.
And at some point again, maybe an exercise for a family.
Just talking off the cuff is okay.
I can tell my 11 year olds kind of into this deal.
Have a sit down conversation, have perspective.
He's a kid, but like, where's the runway?

(36:46):
You know, and maybe this kids like, man, I just went to Omaha
last year. I want to play college baseball
for one of those teams. OK, Now we at least kind of have
a general idea what the runway is and, and kind of map that
out. One of the best speeches I ever
heard was a guy named Gary Ward,legendary college baseball
coach. And he talked about you always
need to know, figure out where do you want to go?

(37:07):
You know, whether it's with yourswing or in the winter, you're
just trying to develop, you know, you're trying to hit the
weights in the winter, like where you're at A, where's B,
Where do you want to go? And then you press rewind on the
VCR, which is what he said. Now your, your son probably
don't know what that is, but hitrewind on the VCR, okay.
And and then start, start along those steps, you know, every

(37:29):
day, if you will. So yeah, lack of sequence has
become frustrating because freshman year it needs to be a
learning experience and some guys are blessed enough they can
start or be an all American and all those things, you know,
better be careful what you ask for.
If you're a freshman all American, guess what you got
next year? A lot of pressure and people
saying sophomore slump and things like that.

(37:50):
So there's pros and cons to everything, but I think a
sequence is the highest percentage deal that you could
have. And you had that in your career.
I know you've you've spoken on at the very least one thing you
did as an athlete. You stayed on an incline and
that's one thing we're looking at when we're at Lake Point.
You maybe don't want the guy that's fully developed or has

(38:11):
the world figured out. You want a guy that's good now
and you can have a you have a vision.
If he stays on this incline because he's a good worker and a
good teammate, what can he really become when he's 21
playing for us? My kids like roll their eyes now
because I say it to him all the time.
Like I have two boys and a daughter.
And so I say they're all, they're 7th and 8th grade, all
three of them. And I always say that.

(38:32):
I said, guys, here's the ultimate goal.
Can we get better forever? What increments?
What year is better than the others?
I don't know. How good will you end up being?
We don't know. But all I know is if we get
better forever at some incremental level, year after
year after year after year, wherever you're supposed to make

(38:53):
it, whatever level you're supposed to achieve, you will.
And maybe that's high school varsity baseball and you're just
a great senior on your team. Great.
That was your Max. Let's reach it.
Maybe you're a low level. And then from there, who knows
what the next steps are. But man, just that's all I knew.
And and you said I've shared that with everyone who I've ever
talked to. Like, my greatest gift was not

(39:14):
at any point in time, if you snapshot in my career at any
point in time, I was never the best singular player on my team,
let alone in my world. But I could get better forever.
And guys that were ahead of me, eventually I'd catch him and
pass him by. I didn't know how many.
It took 10 years for me to make a Pro Bowl.

(39:36):
And then I made three in a row. Like that was who I was.
That was my life. That's everything embodied,
sequencing, series of events. Stop looking too far down or
like everything you just described.
I want you to like, I want you to say it to my kids because
they're probably more willing tolisten.
Well, everybody else probably wants you to say because my long

(39:56):
winded answers could have been consolidated and exactly what
you said is just getting better every day.
Is is is the answer. One of the best talks we ever
had in our clubhouse was Max Scherzer's the best athlete
probably I've ever coached or the most accomplished.
Let's say that I don't need my tires slashed.
But same way Max, and he'll get mad at me because he always

(40:18):
thinks he's the best, but in high school was not.
But he became that in college. Freshman year, he only got 20
innings for us, but he became sodominant in the best prospect.
A lot of people don't even know he played for the Diamondbacks
because it wasn't that great. And then he gets with the
Tigers, Verlanders, technically the one, Strasburger technically
the one. And now he's 41 years old,
discovering different ways. The word that comes to mind is

(40:40):
evolving, and in every sport it's probably crucial.
But I think more so in baseball because there's so many moving
parts and a pitcher like Kershawmight have to reinvent himself
just a little bit as stuff goes down, things like that.
But evolution or continuing to evolve in baseball is so
important. So to me, I actually, it's kind

(41:00):
of like 11. We've coached a couple kids.
It's like, I want to be one, one.
Well, why not be two? Because then you get the same
amount of money, the same, you know, leeway with the
organization, but you don't haveto deal with all that other
crap. And, and you know, a parallel to
that and at least in my mind is men, what if you do have some
stuff to work on that, but you're but you're in a good

(41:22):
spot. That's a good thing because now
you can kind of keep this train rolling and keep evolving.
And if I was to come in and speak to your to your kids, you
know, or maybe this is somethingof a coach is struggling to get
across the kids. I think they brought back the
Rubik's Cube. That's kind of like what
evolving is. You're always trying to line up

(41:43):
those panels on the same side. And unfortunately for sports
like golf or baseball, you nevergoing to have them all lined up.
But I I think that type of puzzle solving contributes to to
that evolution. That's awesome.
And I want to end with this. I know you got a lot to do.
You want to you're going recruiting, you're going to the
PBR stuff. So I'm going to end with this.
I want just what you've accomplished at Tennessee from

(42:06):
when you took the program over in 18 to the national title in
24 to you guys are at the Creme de la Creme, the highest level
of powerful or high level Division One baseball.
Like from where you took it overcoming from Arkansas as an
assistant to now where you are as one of the most established
programs in the country. Like what are you most proud of?
Like what I know, not national titles, first round picks.

(42:29):
Like what have you built there that when you're going to look
back on this year's down, you'regoing to say, you know what?
Of everything we accomplished, I'm most proud of what?
I think that we've we've established a level of team
chemistry that exists among the coaches and amongst the kids.
And then, you know, combining those two coaches with players

(42:49):
that has created some bonds that'll last for a lifetime.
And I think one thing that thesekids lose sight of is you're
going to be a person a lot longer than you are a player.
So when you're a teammate insidethe locker room, it's good for
these kids to participate in these sports and face challenges
because you're growing into a better person.

(43:10):
And that's what you're going to be longer in life.
And, and you know, I know you'restill coaching.
Let's say you weren't, you're still a teammate, you know, to
your family members and you know, the people you meet in the
community and and you're taking on this challenge.
So I think that's something important and kind of the vibe
we've created in there is huge. And hey, at the end of the day,
if you can be Kobe or someone like that, that's legendary.

(43:34):
Kudos to you. But third kudos.
It's I've probably used them allup, but that's awesome.
But in reality, like in 100 years, is it going to what's
going to matter? You know, and unfortunately this
is a little dark, but all of us are going to have a day where
we're no longer around. You'd like some people to be at
that gathering and, and what type of things are they going to

(43:55):
say are important? And I think some people think
it's so again, what are we competing for?
It's so crucial to get this or that when time moves on, is it
really going to matter? And so I think what we got going
on now in our locker room and atour stadium is a lot of bonds,
even with the fans that truly matter.

(44:15):
And the winds will come and go. You get your brains beaten in
our league, but that's what. Comes you guys looking this
year? You feel pretty good about this
year, Squad. They're young, so they listen
more. I like that vibe at the start of
the at the start of the season, but yet you're looking.
It works, right Young in town, yeah.
Yeah, but can you stay on that incline?
So you're looking for indicatorsas a coach for sure.

(44:36):
And, and one of the things I, I know we're, we're wrapping up,
but one of the things I, I wanted to make sure I mention is
we're looking for indicators too.
And it's amazing. One of the best players I ever
coached, he didn't get to go to his dream school because his
father kind of scared off that dream school.
Once I got to know the dad, he'sone of the best human beings

(44:56):
I've ever met. He just was a man of principle
and it was very loud. So it was up to interpretation.
And I wish there was a magic formula for like, this is the
type of parent you want to be. But it is something we're sizing
up when we are at a field watching games or a kids on a
visit. And I don't think there's a,
like I said, a perfect protocol,but I thought of two.

(45:19):
PS What, what to what kind of pressure do you put on kids and
what do you praise? And I think that would be a good
self reflection or self analysisfor parents if they got anything
out of our conversation is when you're at the game, where's the
pressure, where the praise is? And so if you're going
absolutely ballistic on the umpire because your kid is now

(45:39):
O1 and the game's on the line, you're kind of acting like
there's so much pressure to win this game.
It's the most important thing inthe world.
And I think we all know, truly know it's not.
And then again, kind of that praise thing at the end is, you
know, watch your kid in the duck, you know, dugout and
things like that. And like instead of saying you
had two double S and Georgia Tech's coach or Florida State's

(46:01):
coach was watching you play. Hey, I kind of noticed when
coach pulled you aside. I appreciate you had eye contact
with them or, you know, praise the fact no hits today, but you
ran you're 90 times your times to 1st.
You ran hard the whole time. So I was hoping to contribute
something. I didn't want to come up with a
catch phrase, but it kind of stuck out.
AS2 PS Where what kind of pressure are you applying?

(46:24):
And it should be, in my opinion,to be a good worker and a good
teammate, but it's hard not to press for results.
And then what are you praising? And a lot of people want to
praise the outcomes or the attention that they get instead
of things that are going to serve you longer in life like
you learned as far as work ethicand, and, and all the things
that you know, go under the umbrella of being a good
teammate. And I don't I think that's the

(46:46):
perfect way to end it. You.
That's the best I've ever heard someone put it.
Because if I've learned one thing from watching my kids play
baseball, specifically football's the ultimate outcome.
Base game, doesn't matter how ithappened.
Did you catch it? Did you score?
Did you get the first down? Yes or no?
If you didn't, there's no like, hey, at least you tried hard

(47:07):
baseball, at least in my understanding through the young
level, like there is an element of like, did you do everything
in your power and you lined out to the second baseman?
You're O for one. And then the next kid gets up
and swinging bunt over the top of a pulse.
He pulls the ball and it dribbles down to 3rd baseline.
He beats it out and he's one forone.

(47:28):
And your vision of the two game of the two players is
drastically different if you just look at the box score,
right? So like the result could really
mislead you. And are you doing everything the
right way? Did you do all of your stuff
Monday through Friday? And you went O for three?
That's OK. Did you go?
Did you do nothing all week? And then you went O for 3/2?

(47:49):
Very different O for threes. That's probably the biggest
thing that I've learned through being around baseball, and the
way you just framed it is how I'm going to carry forward with
my own kids and my team the bestthat I can, because that's the
best I've ever heard someone putit.
I appreciate that, man. And yeah, football is, I don't
know how you guys did it, like the finality of just one game.

(48:11):
I mean, we just dealt with it onour campus.
There's so much pressure and it's only one time we have the
benefit of more reps and so it changes, you know, how that
process and outcome thing is weighed.
The one thing I do think both sports and all sports have in
common is you can really serve yourself well as a coach or a
player if you're just trying to have success a high percentage

(48:33):
of the time. So if you're at bats or quality,
then you'll end up with a batting average that's that's
also quality. But if you're up and down big
time emotionally and with the quality or type of at bats you
put together, the percentages are not going to go very well in
in your favor. So you get a heartbreaking loss
on a football field. Yeah, unfortunately it could

(48:53):
cost you going to a playoff or something like that.
But if you put that much pressure going into the game,
like if we lose this game, we have got no chance.
It ain't going to work out very well.
But if you're doing anything that falls under the line of be
the casino, put the percentages in your favor with your
approach. And for a kid like me, that was
a bottom of the depth chart guy.At least if you're, you know,

(49:16):
doing the right things a high percentage of the time as an
athlete, then it'll maybe put you in a better position when
your time is done with an athlete because it, it happens
for for all of us, whether we like it or not.
Man, coach, I can I can talk to you for four hours.
I'm going to try to get down there and watch you guys be
around your program, like just watching you from afar.

(49:37):
The way you communicate, the wayyou command, the way you, you
know, just invigorate your program.
I love everything about what youstand for.
When you agreed to come on here,I just took a shot in the dark
and threw it out there. So for you to agree to coming on
here to talk to our listeners, our fans and me who I'm learning
along with all of our listeners through this journey as a dad

(49:58):
and as a youth sports coach. So I can't tell you what your
perspective, your experience, everything you brought, man, I,
I can't thank you enough, coach,and I hope, I hope Miami treat
you well. Don't take all the good Miami
kids. A couple of them go to Miami,
please. Hey, they're from all over the
country and those guys, those guys have always done well and
are continuing to do well. But no, I appreciate it.

(50:18):
Honored to come on. And I'm not in the category of
the, the people that you've had on, but I appreciate it.
Maybe something's in there more than anything.
You and others, I, I dig the, they're just trying to help
kids. The compound interest that
occurs when you're working with young kids goes on and on and on
because obviously those young kids start doing things.
And, and I think you and I are blessed that we both had two

(50:41):
fathers that were champions, regardless of how how many rings
they have. And at the very least, some
people are benefiting a little bit from that.
Well, well said. We're going to end there and I
know our listeners loved it. So I can't thank you enough
Coach. Good luck this year.
We'll be pulling for you guys and appreciate you joining us on
You Think. You bet.
Thank you. We'll catch you again next week

(51:01):
right here on You Think.