April 14, 2025 • 26 mins
Are your emails undermining your authority without you even realising it? In this episode, we dive into the fascinating psychology behind how we communicate at work and how gendered email habits might be holding you back at work.
Learn the simple word swaps that instantly make you sound more confident, the shocking truth about exclamation marks (hint: they might be sabotaging you), and the military communication technique that gets faster responses every time.
Whether you're managing up, collaborating with colleagues, or building client relationships, these practical communication hacks will save you time and boost your professional reputation. Let's make 2025 the year we all communicate better.
You might be interested in our episodes on:
How To Talk So People Listen To You
How To Be More Productive (Without Trying Too Hard)
Time Blocking Doesn't Work (Until You Do It Right)
How To Ask For More Money (Without Dying From Awkwardness)
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HOSTS: Michelle Battersby, Soph Hirst and Em Vernem
EXEC PRODUCER: Georgie Page
AUDIO PRODUCER: Leah Porges
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to a Mom with Me podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Hello, and welcome to biz your work Life Sorted. I'm
m Vernon and today we're diving into something that's probably
been flooding your TikTok feed. It's the email like a
Man trend.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
So you know that.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Moment when you're crafting what you think is a perfectly
professional email and then suddenly you realize you've used five
exclamation points, three emojis, and apologized twice for something that
isn't even your fault. Well, this trend speaks to so
many women who do this and are trying to unlearn
this way of emailing. And today our career coaches Michelle
Battersby and soph Hurst are breaking down why women tend
(00:48):
to soften their communication at work, and more importantly, how
to strike that perfect balance between being direct and maintaining
your authentic voice. Michelle's actually lived both sides of this,
from the super direct world of investment banking to emoji
friendly culture at Bumble and Soap's Go. Some fascinating insights
from her time at Google about how the most effective
(01:09):
communicator is actually right. Plus, they're sharing their top seven
email mistakes We're making, yes, even the executives are making these,
and trust me, you're gonna want to take notes on
their practical swaps. For those cringe worthy corporate phrases we
all use.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
It's given baby, never ever play me like I'm a I'm.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
Twenty twenty four is the year we email like man.
If you're a corpora goody like me, you know how
we subconsciously add exclamation points, emojis, kisses, and kindness because
that's just who we are, But we rarely receive.
Speaker 5 (01:41):
The energy back from men by email.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
So here's two not apologizing.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
Here's to only putting one exclamation point in a paragraph
instead of five, And here's two not asking people if
that's okay with them.
Speaker 5 (01:53):
They will.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
So as I was thinking about this topic, I realized
that I started my career writing like a man because
I entered the workforce at an investment bank in an
environment that I guess was designed by men and led
by men, and so I therefore think the default communication
(02:20):
style in the organization was written like a man. And
I think, especially when you're earlier on in your career,
you just model what's around you. So I would just
receive these emails think okay, that's how I email, you
match their tone, you match their vibe. And then I
transitioned into working at Bumble and was met with a
(02:42):
million exclamation marks.
Speaker 5 (02:44):
Did you change the way?
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Yes, yes, but I remember thinking, oh my god, this
is so fun.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
You know, I get to use emojis, exclamation marks, kisses,
felt very casual. It was just complete opposite ends of
the spectrum.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
In a way, I think you're actually lucky to have
had that experience.
Speaker 5 (03:04):
I wanted to look up if they're.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Actually a difference between how men and women communicate, and
there are a bunch of studies that show that there
is obviously generalization, but women typically do use more indirect
language and men will be more direct. For example, women
can use more hedging language like just or I think
or perhaps one of the most simple things you can
do to make your emails stronger or to come across
(03:28):
as more confident, there's a few words that you should
just cut from your email vocabulary, and then there's some
really simple phrase swaps that you can actually do. So
I'll tell you just what a couple of I remember
when someone taught me this. It was like quite early
on in my career, and this amazing woman was like
you know, you use these two words quite a lot,
and if you just cut them out, you'll notice that
you sound a lot stronger. So the first word is
(03:49):
just so, you just don't need to say that, I
just but so instead of you know, just checking in
or just following up, just say checking in or following up.
Speaker 5 (03:57):
So just cut the word just.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
And then I think as well, so instead of saying
you know, I think we should just say we should.
There's a couple of others that I really like. So
instead of sorry for the delay, say thanks for waiting.
You know, if you've made a mistake on something, instead
of saying sorry for missing that, say thanks for letting
me know. And then the classic could per my last email,
which is just so passive aggressive. I think that used
(04:20):
to be fine to say, but now, just like so
many people use it, I think it sounds really passive aggressive.
So I prefer to just say, like, do you have
any more questions on this? Or is there anything else
I can help you with? To like reply kind of
thing or respond to reply. But I do think the
one thing that you really notice the difference between when
you look at the way people who are more junior
starting out in their career email versus people are getting
(04:43):
more senior is just the length.
Speaker 5 (04:44):
Man.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
It's like, when you're starting out, you just I think
a lot of young people just write these really long emails,
and I think as you get more senior, you start
to figure out that you don't need all that information.
I will say, though, I love this TikTok that we
will put in the newsletter. The caption is time to
write emails like a CEO who earns forty times my
(05:05):
salary and he has a whole bara cup of text
which he then just deletes and in the subject line
he writes, send the presentation. And the thing I talk
to young people about this all the time, and they're like, well,
that's fine for CEOs to write that way, but if I,
as a junior person, wrote that way, that wouldn't be cool.
Speaker 5 (05:19):
And that's true.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
So I think, like we'll often say to young people like,
you need to write shorulder emails. But then I actually
have a bone to pick with execs in terms of
the way they write emails. So we'll get into that
a little bit later in the episode. Michelle, I want
to know, so you had this experience of emailing like
a man and then emailing like a woman fumble.
Speaker 5 (05:39):
How do you email?
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Now?
Speaker 4 (05:40):
So I do think my style is now more of
a blend, and I actually do comb through my own
emails and remove words like just because I've seen the
research I've heard, you know, the kind of discourse on this.
Speaker 5 (05:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:52):
But I also weirdly like reread my emails like three
times before I send them. And I also once I
send something, especially like a high pressure email that I've
read through like five or six times before I've even
pressed send, and then go into my scent folder and
I read it again and I'm like, oh, did I
do that well? And I'm like, is that just me?
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Do you do that?
Speaker 3 (06:13):
No?
Speaker 5 (06:14):
Yeah? Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
I think the more senior or like, the more important
the person is that you're emailing, and the more times
you're going to read it.
Speaker 5 (06:19):
Yea.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
There is that function on Gmail where you can set it,
so there's like a unsandal as.
Speaker 5 (06:24):
I do that.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Yeah, because there's a psychological thing that happens in your
brain the second you send it you're like, oh my god, I.
Speaker 5 (06:29):
Didn't put the thing in.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (06:30):
I think that's totally normal.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
But if you were doing that when you were emailing,
like your co founder, then that would be kind of weird.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 6 (06:37):
No, so so you have worked on tips for anyone
listening things that might be undermining your email or slack style.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
I just cannot wait for these because I've also received
your emails and they're really good. Like I've started modeling you.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
I just want to say for the record that I
was never good at this stuff, so it's definitely something
that you just get better out of time. I think
it's so interesting, like we started writing more emails so
we could have less meetings, and then we started using
Slack more so that we could have less emails, and
now we're even kind of lazier and more careless in Slack.
So I do think it's really hard. I actually read
the other day that a third of emails that we
(07:25):
send at work that need a response go completely unchecked
kind of thing. So I just think that we are
completely drowning in text and we all need to help
each other. So yeah, I think, just before I kind
of get into the seven things, I will just say,
with communication, we live in our own heads, right, and
it makes sense like we're in our bodies, we're in
our head, so so much about communicating is we sit
(07:47):
there thinking, you know, what do I want to say
to this person? What do I need to say? And
we're kind of in our own heads. The best communicators
get out of their own head and they think about
the other person. And so the trap that we get
into is we'll go to sit at our keyboard and
we'll either be reacting to something that someone has said
to us or we'll be thinking, okay, like what do
I want to say? Really, you need to be thinking
about the other person. What do they need to hear?
(08:09):
What do they need to know now? And what can
they maybe know later? What kind of situation are they
going to be in when they receive your email or
your plack message. Just like, think about them more, And
I think the quickie you can learn that muscle memory
of doing that all the time. It honestly takes ten
seconds before you start typing. Just spend ten seconds thinking
about the person or people that you're sending.
Speaker 5 (08:30):
Your communication to. I feel like I'm being a teacher now.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
No, I love it, But I know this sounds like hectic,
extra work.
Speaker 5 (08:37):
I promise you it's not.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
And like, if we all get better at this, it's
going to make everyone's lives easier.
Speaker 5 (08:42):
So did you learn to do that?
Speaker 3 (08:44):
So I was really bad, and I will say I
can't actually type properly, so I type with three fingers.
You know.
Speaker 5 (08:49):
I was never good at this.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
So I joined Google, and I think that's really where
I learned because the engineers are very good at written communication,
I have to say, so, same just like learning through modeling, modeling.
Speaker 5 (09:01):
Exactly, I learned through modly.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Yeah, if you are sitting there thinking is this email
too long, the answer is yes. And even if you're
not sitting there thinking that your email is still too long.
So the shorter your email, the faster you're going to
get a reply. And if someone can actually see if
you think about your email on a like a mobile
phone screen, if someone can actually see the end of it,
they're way more likely to respond to you.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
This is such a good point.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Yeah, So, honestly, when you're emailing, especially when you're emailing
up to sort of seeing new people but really just anyone,
you might be better off having a few short exchanges
of like short things, rather than trying to put everything
into one email. But it is a trade off, right,
You can't put everything into a single email. You have
to decide would I rather someone actually read these three
(09:43):
points or risk trying to send them an email with
fifteen points and know that.
Speaker 5 (09:47):
They're actually just not going to read it.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
So that's the first thing, is your email needs to
be shorter, and just a couple of tips like it
does really help to you can just put the text
into chat, GPT or whatever your company's allowed to use
and just say, reduce this by fifty percent. Obviously read
it because it can cut out information you need. But
the main trap people get suck in is you can't
write a concise email unless you're clear about what you.
Speaker 5 (10:10):
Want to say.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
So back to my point before, just spend ten seconds
thinking about what you actually need to say to this
person before you start typing.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
I think when you receive an email and it looks
fucking massive, you also can just take a quick glance
at it, think oh my god, that's huge, mark it
as unread, and then it just gets buried in your
inbox and you've mentally marked it as it's in a
bit of a too hard basket. It's going to take
me some time, so I'm not even going to bother
until I've got that time, which might not come around
(10:39):
for another few days exactly.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
And I think the thing is, like, there is a
difference between sort of internal emails that we're sending all
the time. And maybe you're emailing a client or someone
that you don't email a lot. But if you're emailing
people a lot, you should be having a conversation. Like
I used to say to my team, I'm going to
send really short direct emails. But that's just because it's
going to save us all time, and please do that
back to me. But that's because we have a relationship.
(11:02):
Back to what I said earlier, I have a bone
to pick with executives. Can emails be too short? And
the answer is yes, because it's like all the execs
in the world got together and agreed, let's all send
three word emails. And the thing with that is I
sit there sometimes I get emails from execs and I
sit there for ten minutes trying to figure out what
they are actually trying to say because they've given me
(11:24):
no context. So, like, your point is to send an
email that is clear, and sometimes to send a clear
email you need to give the right amount of context.
So it's not just about the shortest email you can
possibly write.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
I also think if you receive a really short, brief,
sometimes cold in tone email from an exec, if you're
a junior person, you can also sit there thinking do
they hate me?
Speaker 1 (11:48):
And I also feel as an exec.
Speaker 4 (11:49):
You need to be aware of the fact that you
might not even realize that you're intimidating someone. Simply just
the title that you have might intimidate someone. It's nothing
about you, and you need to be conscious of that.
And as an exec, I don't want to sit there
and scare someone just because I can't be bothered to
like I think at it as an exec. Maybe sometimes
they need to do that have a great weekend, you know,
(12:12):
so the person on the other side just feels a
little bit better about dealing with them.
Speaker 5 (12:15):
Michelle, I totally agree. I was getting a little bit
too enthusiastic when you were talking.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
That's the thing, right back to the point I said,
before thinking about the person your email in. So the
average rate of emails that an executive get today is
like seven hundred, and at Google it was more like
a thousand. I know sometimes you need to send one
word emails for sure, but there is a level of
think about the people you're emailing as well. And so
I think sometimes yet like yeah, approved one word. Fine,
(12:41):
But there are times when you you know someone's worked
really hard on something and give them one extra sentence.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
Or even saying I loved this email, like really appreciate
the conciseness of this email.
Speaker 5 (12:50):
Answer, just help them out of it, give them something
you need to write a dear executive's letter.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Yeah, okay, So point number one was your email's too long,
and then point number two is your emails upside down,
so measure I wonder have you heard of this bluff
bottom line up front?
Speaker 1 (13:05):
No method?
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Okay, so it's a method used in military communication. And
you know how we at work we kind of joke
around like, oh, guys, we're not saving lives. Well, in
the military, they actually are saving lives. So the way
that they email and communicate is really important. And the
basic principle is that we think and want to communicate chronologically.
So most people it's like this happened, then this happened,
then this happened, and what that means when you are
(13:29):
emailing it, you'll often say explanation, explanation, Can you review
this doc and then send me feedback by Friday?
Speaker 5 (13:36):
But what you actually want to do is completely flip it.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
You want to put that part right up the top
and then put the context and the explaining points underneath that.
So the method it's bottom line upfront, which literally means
what is the bottom line for this person? Usually that
is in the form of a request that you're asking,
or like a critical update or a recommendation you're trying
to give.
Speaker 5 (13:57):
So ask yourself, what if the bottom line for this person?
Put that up the top.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
I often just bold it, so often just say like hi, Michelle,
bolded statement, and then you say context or like this
is why I've said this, and you put a couple
of bullet points underneath. And then sometimes if you need
even more information, you can link out. I often under
my signature will often do like a little appendix almost
that has like more explanation if they need to get
(14:21):
into it.
Speaker 5 (14:22):
But yeah, if you want to.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Know more about that, by the way, you can just
ask chat to teach you teach me more about the
bottom line upfront method. I'll actually do it before and
after example, because I think that's the easiest way to
understand it. Actually, let's say this is a Slack message,
because this is about Slack two, right, before example would
be so, let's pretend you're having a Slack conversation with
someone and your manager is asking you this. So they say, hey,
so did the project launch yesterday? And you say, ah,
(14:47):
so the approval went through to the webtam but they're
out of office, so we had to log a ticket
with the support and now we're waiting to hear back
and the new ETA is Wednesday. The after example would be, hey,
so did the project launch yesterday? The project didn't launch yesterday.
The new ETA is Wednesday, nine am. Reason for the
delay web teams out of office. I escalated it via
(15:08):
the support team. I'll stay across it. We'll let you
know if I need anything. So that's the difference between
putting the point of the email right at the top
and then explaining the context later.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
It actually is a little bit of a marketing exercise
when you think about it. Like I was writing a
job description the other day and it was a really
good financial offer, and so usually I kind of put
that at the bottom, but I thought, no, I'm going
to pull that up to the top because I want
to get more eyeballs on this. I'm going to lead
with like the gold. Then I'm going to make the
job sound quite easy. So I pulled like the deliverables
up from the bottom, and then I kind of got
(15:39):
more into the detail underneath, because I felt like the
detail might make people just tune out and then they're
not saying, oh, hey, this is actually a pretty easy
job and they're going to pay really.
Speaker 5 (15:48):
Well, did you see exactly what you just did there?
Speaker 3 (15:50):
What just thinking about the audience and maybe you're like,
to your point around is it normal and is it
okay to reread my emails?
Speaker 5 (15:57):
Yes, and like we actually should be doing that more.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Obviously we don't want to do it to every Slack
message in every email, but if we actually just once
read through, will often find that we hide the point
of the email at the bottom, and you just want
to bring that up to the top. I will just
say again, caveat. This is like you know a lot
of internal emails. If you're emailing clients, you're probably not
going to write like that.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
So let's get into number three.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
If you are sending someone an email where you're going
to ask them for something, and you put how are
you at the top of that email, you're already asking
them for something that they have to answer, so you're
better off instead of saying how are you, just saying
hope you're well or hope you had a good weekend.
Make the one thing you ask them in that email
the thing you actually want. If you are emailing senior executives,
(16:53):
you don't need to put that at all. How are you?
Hope you're well? Just completely cut it. They will not
think you're rude. They will thank you for respecting their time.
This goes into the debate of like warm versus directness,
And I do think you know, you do need to
have a balance of warmth versus direct But the mistake
a lot of people make is thinking that being warm
(17:15):
is putting a bunch of small.
Speaker 5 (17:16):
Talk at the start.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Yeah, so yeah, I'm not saying don't have any small talk,
and again, think about who you're emailing. But I think
people get pretty lazy with the how are you? Hope
you're well and you don't actually care how someone is.
If you genuinely aren't wondering how someone is, or you
want to send them a slack message, it's like how
are you? That's awesome, but like, don't say it to
be lazy, and then the other person will often sit
there thinking like do they want me to actually tell
(17:38):
them how I am? Or are they just saying that?
And then you have to decide to.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
Say, no, I've one hundred percent thought of that when
people say how are you, and like, oh, do they
really want to know?
Speaker 1 (17:46):
How much of a rundown do they want?
Speaker 4 (17:48):
Can you give us an example of how you can
be warm and direct at the same time.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Yeah, this is like the biggest thing, right, So there
is no one way because the whole point is that
you personalize it to who you're talking to. But again,
the mistake a lot of people make is thinking being
is putting a whole bunch of small talk at the
top of your email. It's often better to get to
the point of your email and then put warmth at
the bottom. So at the bottom, maybe you can put
(18:14):
some language around, asking how they are, or like softening it.
I also think that like emojis do play a really
important role. It's actually a bunch of studies where it's
really hard to read tone through text, so a lot
of our understanding of communication actually comes through verbal cues.
So exclamation marks do have a place, but I think
we use them in the wrong places.
Speaker 5 (18:32):
And I'll get to that right at the end.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
But back to your question, Michelle around any tips for
conveying warmth but still being direct. One of the best
things you can do is to write in very human language.
And the way you can catch yourself if you're not
doing that is to just read your email out loud.
If that's not the way you would actually say it
in person, then don't write it.
Speaker 5 (18:50):
And so you can also just use.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
Chat Jitpitt and say can you rewrite this to some
or human But I think in general like warmth comes
through in subtle, small ways. It's not about using a
bunch of softening language. I think in general, women especially
we can be more direct than what we think. It
feels uncomfortable because we're not used to emailing like that.
But I think once you start doing it, you'll realize that.
(19:13):
One you'll notice people that you respect, who you definitely
think of a warm will often send quite direct and
like clear emails. So you know, think about you know
people in your company who may really respect and see
how they email. So I think in general it feels
a little bit weird, but try it out, and then
the way you actually build warmth is through real life channels.
Or sometimes through slack, build warmth through those other channels
(19:36):
and then yeah, you can actually be way more direct
in comms.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yeah, yeah, amazing. I love that as a tip focus
on warmth in real life.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Yeah, exactly, all right. Number four not using sign posting.
So do you know what sign posting is?
Speaker 1 (19:50):
No, actually don't.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
So large blocks of text are actually really hard for
our brains to process. Most people's brains find it really
hard to process. So sign posting is as simple as
using bold headers and bullet points. And I know it's sound
so basic, right, but it actually just like breaking up
large blocks of text is really helpful. People don't read emails,
(20:13):
they scan, and that is a universal truth no matter
what country, no matter what company you work for. People
don't read your email from top to bottom.
Speaker 5 (20:20):
They scan.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
So actually help them with the scanning. So something I
love to do. Sometimes I'll sit down and if I'm
emailing someone, I'll actually just think, like, what are the
questions that they might have, And I'll often just use
their questions as my subheaders and then put bullet points
under that, even if I'm just writing a really short email.
Sometimes so say, it's just like a couple of sentences.
Sometimes I will steal bold certain words and just like
(20:42):
put it into two bullet points just so it's easier
for people to understand.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
It's even like proven that when you're applying for jobs,
recruiters will look at someone's CV for seven seconds. So
the way you structure your resume is like key achievements
must be in bold, like yeah, no one cares about
the dot points of like your skills and expertise, like
show your brilliance so someone can consume it in like
the blink of an eye and.
Speaker 5 (21:06):
Sat and second. So yeah, yeah, it's actually like philosophy.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
Yeah, so know that people aren't really reading your email properly,
but help them with that.
Speaker 5 (21:13):
Yeah. Number five is don't use cliched corporate speak in
your email. Speak like a human.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
So the thing that I think people underestimate sometimes is
just calling it like it is. So say, for example,
I had someone do this to me the other day.
They're actually chasing me, so they'd chase me and then
I hadn't responded to the chase, and so they were
chasing me a third time.
Speaker 5 (21:38):
And they actually just called it like it is, and they.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
Were like, I know, I'm bugging you at this point,
I'm giving it one more shot because this is really
important to get a response from you by Friday because
of this reason. And I was like, thank you for
just calling it like it is. You know, she didn't
say per my last email. She just spoke like a human,
And I was like, right on, So I think, just like,
stop using cliche corporates, beak just speak like a human.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Yeah, oh my god.
Speaker 4 (22:04):
Have you seen the TikTok trend where they go around
the office and they ask everyone what's their most hated
like corporate one lineer and it's let's circle back per
my last email. I actually asked chat GPT this. It
made me lol, let's circle back on this is top
of their list. They label this as corporate robot speak,
(22:26):
let's circle back, just following up per my last email.
Hope this email finds you well, and let's take this offline.
These ones are funny though. It's like hollow praise and
cringe worthy positivity. Love that for us, And then chat
GPT guys in brackets do we do we really? And
(22:46):
then it goes let's put a pin in that and
then chat JVT in brackets that pin should be.
Speaker 5 (22:51):
Permanent CHATJPT has sad.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
And then you're a rock star. Just say thank you
and give me a raise.
Speaker 5 (23:02):
I love this. We'll have to put this in the newsletter. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
And then my final point is, yes, you use too
many exclamation marks, and they're in the wrong places. So
exclamation marks are fine. I'm not saying don't use them,
but we use them in the wrong places. And yes,
a lot of people do use too many. So the
way a lot of people use exclamation marks is to
try and get someone excited about something that is not
objectively exciting. So here's that spreadsheet you wanted it, or
(23:30):
I'm like inviting you to our mandatory finance training is like, no,
that's not exciting, but yes, definitely, if something is objectively exciting,
put an exclamation mark on it. I do think sometimes
they can be helpful to soften the tone of an email,
but again, I think emojis can be really good for
that as well.
Speaker 5 (23:47):
What's your take on exclamation marks?
Speaker 4 (23:49):
Yeah, I mean I worked in a workplace where they
were used at the end of basically every sentence, and
I had to go through it on learning to be honest.
Once I left that workplace, and they actually did damage
to the culture a little bit because they meant people
being pray they felt like they were being praised when
they were kind of just doing the bare minimum.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
So they can be a bit damaging.
Speaker 5 (24:11):
It's actually really undermining.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
So if you're someone who's trying to be taken more seriously,
you're trying to show up as more senior. Yeah, you're
trying to appear more confident in your emails, Like just
stop using exclamation marks.
Speaker 4 (24:21):
Yeah, I think they've become overused in culture as well.
Speaker 5 (24:24):
To be honest, yeah, I gave everyone a lot of rules.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
I just want to say there are no actual rules,
like be yourself and think about the person that you're
actually emailing. If you're trying to show up as more
senior and confident, these things are going to help you.
So we're just going to recap them quickly with one
action that you can start taking today. Love it.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Are you ready ready?
Speaker 5 (24:44):
All right?
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Number one, your email's too long, so instead take ten
seconds to think about the person you're sending your email
to and think like, what do they need?
Speaker 5 (24:54):
And use chat GPT.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
To reduce the text by fifty percent. Number two, your
email is upside down. Write it look for what the
point of the email is. Put that up the top,
put it in bolt. Number three. Small talk isn't warmth,
so cut the lazy how are you? Yes, use emojis
if that's the right vibe. Appreciate Say thank you in
emails can bring out warmth. But also just have a
(25:17):
conversation with each other around how you're going to email.
If you're emailing people all the time, talk about how
you're going to do it. Number four, use signposting, so
bold and bullets even on slack, Like especially on Slack,
you should be using bold and bullets. Number five, no
corporate robots fake, so read it out loud to yourself.
If you wouldn't say it, then don't write it. And
then number six, be intentional about your exclamation marks. I'm
(25:39):
not saying cut them completely, but use them in the
right places.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Oh I love these so much. They're going to help
many people.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
I learned so much from this episode, especially how it's
not about completely changing how we communicate. It's about being
intentional with our words and knowing when to be direct
versus when to add that personal touch. And sometimes the
most powerful thing you can do is just hits end
without overthinking it. Speaking of intentional communication, make sure you
(26:11):
check out this week's BUZ Newsletter, where we're sharing those
before and after email templates that's so mentioned earlier, Plus
at Hilarious TikTok about the CEO who writes three word emails.
And if you're loving these practical career tips, follow us
at biz by Mama Mia on Instagram, where we'll be
sharing more of the hacks throughout the week. I will
catch you in Thursday's biz Inbox, where we tackle all
(26:32):
of your career dilemmas. Bye Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional
owners of land and waters that this podcast is recorded
on
You're listening to a Mom with Me podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Hello, and welcome to biz your work Life Sorted. I'm
m Vernon and today we're diving into something that's probably
been flooding your TikTok feed. It's the email like a
Man trend.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
So you know that.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Moment when you're crafting what you think is a perfectly
professional email and then suddenly you realize you've used five
exclamation points, three emojis, and apologized twice for something that
isn't even your fault. Well, this trend speaks to so
many women who do this and are trying to unlearn
this way of emailing. And today our career coaches Michelle
Battersby and soph Hurst are breaking down why women tend
(00:48):
to soften their communication at work, and more importantly, how
to strike that perfect balance between being direct and maintaining
your authentic voice. Michelle's actually lived both sides of this,
from the super direct world of investment banking to emoji
friendly culture at Bumble and Soap's Go. Some fascinating insights
from her time at Google about how the most effective
(01:09):
communicator is actually right. Plus, they're sharing their top seven
email mistakes We're making, yes, even the executives are making these,
and trust me, you're gonna want to take notes on
their practical swaps. For those cringe worthy corporate phrases we
all use.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
It's given baby, never ever play me like I'm a I'm.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
Twenty twenty four is the year we email like man.
If you're a corpora goody like me, you know how
we subconsciously add exclamation points, emojis, kisses, and kindness because
that's just who we are, But we rarely receive.
Speaker 5 (01:41):
The energy back from men by email.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
So here's two not apologizing.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
Here's to only putting one exclamation point in a paragraph
instead of five, And here's two not asking people if
that's okay with them.
Speaker 5 (01:53):
They will.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
So as I was thinking about this topic, I realized
that I started my career writing like a man because
I entered the workforce at an investment bank in an
environment that I guess was designed by men and led
by men, and so I therefore think the default communication
(02:20):
style in the organization was written like a man. And
I think, especially when you're earlier on in your career,
you just model what's around you. So I would just
receive these emails think okay, that's how I email, you
match their tone, you match their vibe. And then I
transitioned into working at Bumble and was met with a
(02:42):
million exclamation marks.
Speaker 5 (02:44):
Did you change the way?
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Yes, yes, but I remember thinking, oh my god, this
is so fun.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
You know, I get to use emojis, exclamation marks, kisses,
felt very casual. It was just complete opposite ends of
the spectrum.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
In a way, I think you're actually lucky to have
had that experience.
Speaker 5 (03:04):
I wanted to look up if they're.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Actually a difference between how men and women communicate, and
there are a bunch of studies that show that there
is obviously generalization, but women typically do use more indirect
language and men will be more direct. For example, women
can use more hedging language like just or I think
or perhaps one of the most simple things you can
do to make your emails stronger or to come across
(03:28):
as more confident, there's a few words that you should
just cut from your email vocabulary, and then there's some
really simple phrase swaps that you can actually do. So
I'll tell you just what a couple of I remember
when someone taught me this. It was like quite early
on in my career, and this amazing woman was like
you know, you use these two words quite a lot,
and if you just cut them out, you'll notice that
you sound a lot stronger. So the first word is
(03:49):
just so, you just don't need to say that, I
just but so instead of you know, just checking in
or just following up, just say checking in or following up.
Speaker 5 (03:57):
So just cut the word just.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
And then I think as well, so instead of saying
you know, I think we should just say we should.
There's a couple of others that I really like. So
instead of sorry for the delay, say thanks for waiting.
You know, if you've made a mistake on something, instead
of saying sorry for missing that, say thanks for letting
me know. And then the classic could per my last email,
which is just so passive aggressive. I think that used
(04:20):
to be fine to say, but now, just like so
many people use it, I think it sounds really passive aggressive.
So I prefer to just say, like, do you have
any more questions on this? Or is there anything else
I can help you with? To like reply kind of
thing or respond to reply. But I do think the
one thing that you really notice the difference between when
you look at the way people who are more junior
starting out in their career email versus people are getting
(04:43):
more senior is just the length.
Speaker 5 (04:44):
Man.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
It's like, when you're starting out, you just I think
a lot of young people just write these really long emails,
and I think as you get more senior, you start
to figure out that you don't need all that information.
I will say, though, I love this TikTok that we
will put in the newsletter. The caption is time to
write emails like a CEO who earns forty times my
(05:05):
salary and he has a whole bara cup of text
which he then just deletes and in the subject line
he writes, send the presentation. And the thing I talk
to young people about this all the time, and they're like, well,
that's fine for CEOs to write that way, but if I,
as a junior person, wrote that way, that wouldn't be cool.
Speaker 5 (05:19):
And that's true.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
So I think, like we'll often say to young people like,
you need to write shorulder emails. But then I actually
have a bone to pick with execs in terms of
the way they write emails. So we'll get into that
a little bit later in the episode. Michelle, I want
to know, so you had this experience of emailing like
a man and then emailing like a woman fumble.
Speaker 5 (05:39):
How do you email?
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Now?
Speaker 4 (05:40):
So I do think my style is now more of
a blend, and I actually do comb through my own
emails and remove words like just because I've seen the
research I've heard, you know, the kind of discourse on this.
Speaker 5 (05:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:52):
But I also weirdly like reread my emails like three
times before I send them. And I also once I
send something, especially like a high pressure email that I've
read through like five or six times before I've even
pressed send, and then go into my scent folder and
I read it again and I'm like, oh, did I
do that well? And I'm like, is that just me?
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Do you do that?
Speaker 3 (06:13):
No?
Speaker 5 (06:14):
Yeah? Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
I think the more senior or like, the more important
the person is that you're emailing, and the more times
you're going to read it.
Speaker 5 (06:19):
Yea.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
There is that function on Gmail where you can set it,
so there's like a unsandal as.
Speaker 5 (06:24):
I do that.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Yeah, because there's a psychological thing that happens in your
brain the second you send it you're like, oh my god, I.
Speaker 5 (06:29):
Didn't put the thing in.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (06:30):
I think that's totally normal.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
But if you were doing that when you were emailing,
like your co founder, then that would be kind of weird.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 6 (06:37):
No, so so you have worked on tips for anyone
listening things that might be undermining your email or slack style.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
I just cannot wait for these because I've also received
your emails and they're really good. Like I've started modeling you.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
I just want to say for the record that I
was never good at this stuff, so it's definitely something
that you just get better out of time. I think
it's so interesting, like we started writing more emails so
we could have less meetings, and then we started using
Slack more so that we could have less emails, and
now we're even kind of lazier and more careless in Slack.
So I do think it's really hard. I actually read
the other day that a third of emails that we
(07:25):
send at work that need a response go completely unchecked
kind of thing. So I just think that we are
completely drowning in text and we all need to help
each other. So yeah, I think, just before I kind
of get into the seven things, I will just say,
with communication, we live in our own heads, right, and
it makes sense like we're in our bodies, we're in
our head, so so much about communicating is we sit
(07:47):
there thinking, you know, what do I want to say
to this person? What do I need to say? And
we're kind of in our own heads. The best communicators
get out of their own head and they think about
the other person. And so the trap that we get
into is we'll go to sit at our keyboard and
we'll either be reacting to something that someone has said
to us or we'll be thinking, okay, like what do
I want to say? Really, you need to be thinking
about the other person. What do they need to hear?
(08:09):
What do they need to know now? And what can
they maybe know later? What kind of situation are they
going to be in when they receive your email or
your plack message. Just like, think about them more, And
I think the quickie you can learn that muscle memory
of doing that all the time. It honestly takes ten
seconds before you start typing. Just spend ten seconds thinking
about the person or people that you're sending.
Speaker 5 (08:30):
Your communication to. I feel like I'm being a teacher now.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
No, I love it, But I know this sounds like hectic,
extra work.
Speaker 5 (08:37):
I promise you it's not.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
And like, if we all get better at this, it's
going to make everyone's lives easier.
Speaker 5 (08:42):
So did you learn to do that?
Speaker 3 (08:44):
So I was really bad, and I will say I
can't actually type properly, so I type with three fingers.
You know.
Speaker 5 (08:49):
I was never good at this.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
So I joined Google, and I think that's really where
I learned because the engineers are very good at written communication,
I have to say, so, same just like learning through modeling, modeling.
Speaker 5 (09:01):
Exactly, I learned through modly.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Yeah, if you are sitting there thinking is this email
too long, the answer is yes. And even if you're
not sitting there thinking that your email is still too long.
So the shorter your email, the faster you're going to
get a reply. And if someone can actually see if
you think about your email on a like a mobile
phone screen, if someone can actually see the end of it,
they're way more likely to respond to you.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
This is such a good point.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Yeah, So, honestly, when you're emailing, especially when you're emailing
up to sort of seeing new people but really just anyone,
you might be better off having a few short exchanges
of like short things, rather than trying to put everything
into one email. But it is a trade off, right,
You can't put everything into a single email. You have
to decide would I rather someone actually read these three
(09:43):
points or risk trying to send them an email with
fifteen points and know that.
Speaker 5 (09:47):
They're actually just not going to read it.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
So that's the first thing, is your email needs to
be shorter, and just a couple of tips like it
does really help to you can just put the text
into chat, GPT or whatever your company's allowed to use
and just say, reduce this by fifty percent. Obviously read
it because it can cut out information you need. But
the main trap people get suck in is you can't
write a concise email unless you're clear about what you.
Speaker 5 (10:10):
Want to say.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
So back to my point before, just spend ten seconds
thinking about what you actually need to say to this
person before you start typing.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
I think when you receive an email and it looks
fucking massive, you also can just take a quick glance
at it, think oh my god, that's huge, mark it
as unread, and then it just gets buried in your
inbox and you've mentally marked it as it's in a
bit of a too hard basket. It's going to take
me some time, so I'm not even going to bother
until I've got that time, which might not come around
(10:39):
for another few days exactly.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
And I think the thing is, like, there is a
difference between sort of internal emails that we're sending all
the time. And maybe you're emailing a client or someone
that you don't email a lot. But if you're emailing
people a lot, you should be having a conversation. Like
I used to say to my team, I'm going to
send really short direct emails. But that's just because it's
going to save us all time, and please do that
back to me. But that's because we have a relationship.
(11:02):
Back to what I said earlier, I have a bone
to pick with executives. Can emails be too short? And
the answer is yes, because it's like all the execs
in the world got together and agreed, let's all send
three word emails. And the thing with that is I
sit there sometimes I get emails from execs and I
sit there for ten minutes trying to figure out what
they are actually trying to say because they've given me
(11:24):
no context. So, like, your point is to send an
email that is clear, and sometimes to send a clear
email you need to give the right amount of context.
So it's not just about the shortest email you can
possibly write.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
I also think if you receive a really short, brief,
sometimes cold in tone email from an exec, if you're
a junior person, you can also sit there thinking do
they hate me?
Speaker 1 (11:48):
And I also feel as an exec.
Speaker 4 (11:49):
You need to be aware of the fact that you
might not even realize that you're intimidating someone. Simply just
the title that you have might intimidate someone. It's nothing
about you, and you need to be conscious of that.
And as an exec, I don't want to sit there
and scare someone just because I can't be bothered to
like I think at it as an exec. Maybe sometimes
they need to do that have a great weekend, you know,
(12:12):
so the person on the other side just feels a
little bit better about dealing with them.
Speaker 5 (12:15):
Michelle, I totally agree. I was getting a little bit
too enthusiastic when you were talking.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
That's the thing, right back to the point I said,
before thinking about the person your email in. So the
average rate of emails that an executive get today is
like seven hundred, and at Google it was more like
a thousand. I know sometimes you need to send one
word emails for sure, but there is a level of
think about the people you're emailing as well. And so
I think sometimes yet like yeah, approved one word. Fine,
(12:41):
But there are times when you you know someone's worked
really hard on something and give them one extra sentence.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
Or even saying I loved this email, like really appreciate
the conciseness of this email.
Speaker 5 (12:50):
Answer, just help them out of it, give them something
you need to write a dear executive's letter.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Yeah, okay, So point number one was your email's too long,
and then point number two is your emails upside down,
so measure I wonder have you heard of this bluff
bottom line up front?
Speaker 1 (13:05):
No method?
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Okay, so it's a method used in military communication. And
you know how we at work we kind of joke
around like, oh, guys, we're not saving lives. Well, in
the military, they actually are saving lives. So the way
that they email and communicate is really important. And the
basic principle is that we think and want to communicate chronologically.
So most people it's like this happened, then this happened,
then this happened, and what that means when you are
(13:29):
emailing it, you'll often say explanation, explanation, Can you review
this doc and then send me feedback by Friday?
Speaker 5 (13:36):
But what you actually want to do is completely flip it.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
You want to put that part right up the top
and then put the context and the explaining points underneath that.
So the method it's bottom line upfront, which literally means
what is the bottom line for this person? Usually that
is in the form of a request that you're asking,
or like a critical update or a recommendation you're trying
to give.
Speaker 5 (13:57):
So ask yourself, what if the bottom line for this person?
Put that up the top.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
I often just bold it, so often just say like hi, Michelle,
bolded statement, and then you say context or like this
is why I've said this, and you put a couple
of bullet points underneath. And then sometimes if you need
even more information, you can link out. I often under
my signature will often do like a little appendix almost
that has like more explanation if they need to get
(14:21):
into it.
Speaker 5 (14:22):
But yeah, if you want to.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Know more about that, by the way, you can just
ask chat to teach you teach me more about the
bottom line upfront method. I'll actually do it before and
after example, because I think that's the easiest way to
understand it. Actually, let's say this is a Slack message,
because this is about Slack two, right, before example would
be so, let's pretend you're having a Slack conversation with
someone and your manager is asking you this. So they say, hey,
so did the project launch yesterday? And you say, ah,
(14:47):
so the approval went through to the webtam but they're
out of office, so we had to log a ticket
with the support and now we're waiting to hear back
and the new ETA is Wednesday. The after example would be, hey,
so did the project launch yesterday? The project didn't launch yesterday.
The new ETA is Wednesday, nine am. Reason for the
delay web teams out of office. I escalated it via
(15:08):
the support team. I'll stay across it. We'll let you
know if I need anything. So that's the difference between
putting the point of the email right at the top
and then explaining the context later.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
It actually is a little bit of a marketing exercise
when you think about it. Like I was writing a
job description the other day and it was a really
good financial offer, and so usually I kind of put
that at the bottom, but I thought, no, I'm going
to pull that up to the top because I want
to get more eyeballs on this. I'm going to lead
with like the gold. Then I'm going to make the
job sound quite easy. So I pulled like the deliverables
up from the bottom, and then I kind of got
(15:39):
more into the detail underneath, because I felt like the
detail might make people just tune out and then they're
not saying, oh, hey, this is actually a pretty easy
job and they're going to pay really.
Speaker 5 (15:48):
Well, did you see exactly what you just did there?
Speaker 3 (15:50):
What just thinking about the audience and maybe you're like,
to your point around is it normal and is it
okay to reread my emails?
Speaker 5 (15:57):
Yes, and like we actually should be doing that more.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Obviously we don't want to do it to every Slack
message in every email, but if we actually just once
read through, will often find that we hide the point
of the email at the bottom, and you just want
to bring that up to the top. I will just
say again, caveat. This is like you know a lot
of internal emails. If you're emailing clients, you're probably not
going to write like that.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
So let's get into number three.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
If you are sending someone an email where you're going
to ask them for something, and you put how are
you at the top of that email, you're already asking
them for something that they have to answer, so you're
better off instead of saying how are you, just saying
hope you're well or hope you had a good weekend.
Make the one thing you ask them in that email
the thing you actually want. If you are emailing senior executives,
(16:53):
you don't need to put that at all. How are you?
Hope you're well? Just completely cut it. They will not
think you're rude. They will thank you for respecting their time.
This goes into the debate of like warm versus directness,
And I do think you know, you do need to
have a balance of warmth versus direct But the mistake
a lot of people make is thinking that being warm
(17:15):
is putting a bunch of small.
Speaker 5 (17:16):
Talk at the start.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Yeah, so yeah, I'm not saying don't have any small talk,
and again, think about who you're emailing. But I think
people get pretty lazy with the how are you? Hope
you're well and you don't actually care how someone is.
If you genuinely aren't wondering how someone is, or you
want to send them a slack message, it's like how
are you? That's awesome, but like, don't say it to
be lazy, and then the other person will often sit
there thinking like do they want me to actually tell
(17:38):
them how I am? Or are they just saying that?
And then you have to decide to.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
Say, no, I've one hundred percent thought of that when
people say how are you, and like, oh, do they
really want to know?
Speaker 1 (17:46):
How much of a rundown do they want?
Speaker 4 (17:48):
Can you give us an example of how you can
be warm and direct at the same time.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Yeah, this is like the biggest thing, right, So there
is no one way because the whole point is that
you personalize it to who you're talking to. But again,
the mistake a lot of people make is thinking being
is putting a whole bunch of small talk at the
top of your email. It's often better to get to
the point of your email and then put warmth at
the bottom. So at the bottom, maybe you can put
(18:14):
some language around, asking how they are, or like softening it.
I also think that like emojis do play a really
important role. It's actually a bunch of studies where it's
really hard to read tone through text, so a lot
of our understanding of communication actually comes through verbal cues.
So exclamation marks do have a place, but I think
we use them in the wrong places.
Speaker 5 (18:32):
And I'll get to that right at the end.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
But back to your question, Michelle around any tips for
conveying warmth but still being direct. One of the best
things you can do is to write in very human language.
And the way you can catch yourself if you're not
doing that is to just read your email out loud.
If that's not the way you would actually say it
in person, then don't write it.
Speaker 5 (18:50):
And so you can also just use.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
Chat Jitpitt and say can you rewrite this to some
or human But I think in general like warmth comes
through in subtle, small ways. It's not about using a
bunch of softening language. I think in general, women especially
we can be more direct than what we think. It
feels uncomfortable because we're not used to emailing like that.
But I think once you start doing it, you'll realize that.
(19:13):
One you'll notice people that you respect, who you definitely
think of a warm will often send quite direct and
like clear emails. So you know, think about you know
people in your company who may really respect and see
how they email. So I think in general it feels
a little bit weird, but try it out, and then
the way you actually build warmth is through real life channels.
Or sometimes through slack, build warmth through those other channels
(19:36):
and then yeah, you can actually be way more direct
in comms.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yeah, yeah, amazing. I love that as a tip focus
on warmth in real life.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Yeah, exactly, all right. Number four not using sign posting.
So do you know what sign posting is?
Speaker 1 (19:50):
No, actually don't.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
So large blocks of text are actually really hard for
our brains to process. Most people's brains find it really
hard to process. So sign posting is as simple as
using bold headers and bullet points. And I know it's sound
so basic, right, but it actually just like breaking up
large blocks of text is really helpful. People don't read emails,
(20:13):
they scan, and that is a universal truth no matter
what country, no matter what company you work for. People
don't read your email from top to bottom.
Speaker 5 (20:20):
They scan.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
So actually help them with the scanning. So something I
love to do. Sometimes I'll sit down and if I'm
emailing someone, I'll actually just think, like, what are the
questions that they might have, And I'll often just use
their questions as my subheaders and then put bullet points
under that, even if I'm just writing a really short email.
Sometimes so say, it's just like a couple of sentences.
Sometimes I will steal bold certain words and just like
(20:42):
put it into two bullet points just so it's easier
for people to understand.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
It's even like proven that when you're applying for jobs,
recruiters will look at someone's CV for seven seconds. So
the way you structure your resume is like key achievements
must be in bold, like yeah, no one cares about
the dot points of like your skills and expertise, like
show your brilliance so someone can consume it in like
the blink of an eye and.
Speaker 5 (21:06):
Sat and second. So yeah, yeah, it's actually like philosophy.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
Yeah, so know that people aren't really reading your email properly,
but help them with that.
Speaker 5 (21:13):
Yeah. Number five is don't use cliched corporate speak in
your email. Speak like a human.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
So the thing that I think people underestimate sometimes is
just calling it like it is. So say, for example,
I had someone do this to me the other day.
They're actually chasing me, so they'd chase me and then
I hadn't responded to the chase, and so they were
chasing me a third time.
Speaker 5 (21:38):
And they actually just called it like it is, and they.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
Were like, I know, I'm bugging you at this point,
I'm giving it one more shot because this is really
important to get a response from you by Friday because
of this reason. And I was like, thank you for
just calling it like it is. You know, she didn't
say per my last email. She just spoke like a human,
And I was like, right on, So I think, just like,
stop using cliche corporates, beak just speak like a human.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Yeah, oh my god.
Speaker 4 (22:04):
Have you seen the TikTok trend where they go around
the office and they ask everyone what's their most hated
like corporate one lineer and it's let's circle back per
my last email. I actually asked chat GPT this. It
made me lol, let's circle back on this is top
of their list. They label this as corporate robot speak,
(22:26):
let's circle back, just following up per my last email.
Hope this email finds you well, and let's take this offline.
These ones are funny though. It's like hollow praise and
cringe worthy positivity. Love that for us, And then chat
GPT guys in brackets do we do we really? And
(22:46):
then it goes let's put a pin in that and
then chat JVT in brackets that pin should be.
Speaker 5 (22:51):
Permanent CHATJPT has sad.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
And then you're a rock star. Just say thank you
and give me a raise.
Speaker 5 (23:02):
I love this. We'll have to put this in the newsletter. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
And then my final point is, yes, you use too
many exclamation marks, and they're in the wrong places. So
exclamation marks are fine. I'm not saying don't use them,
but we use them in the wrong places. And yes,
a lot of people do use too many. So the
way a lot of people use exclamation marks is to
try and get someone excited about something that is not
objectively exciting. So here's that spreadsheet you wanted it, or
(23:30):
I'm like inviting you to our mandatory finance training is like, no,
that's not exciting, but yes, definitely, if something is objectively exciting,
put an exclamation mark on it. I do think sometimes
they can be helpful to soften the tone of an email,
but again, I think emojis can be really good for
that as well.
Speaker 5 (23:47):
What's your take on exclamation marks?
Speaker 4 (23:49):
Yeah, I mean I worked in a workplace where they
were used at the end of basically every sentence, and
I had to go through it on learning to be honest.
Once I left that workplace, and they actually did damage
to the culture a little bit because they meant people
being pray they felt like they were being praised when
they were kind of just doing the bare minimum.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
So they can be a bit damaging.
Speaker 5 (24:11):
It's actually really undermining.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
So if you're someone who's trying to be taken more seriously,
you're trying to show up as more senior. Yeah, you're
trying to appear more confident in your emails, Like just
stop using exclamation marks.
Speaker 4 (24:21):
Yeah, I think they've become overused in culture as well.
Speaker 5 (24:24):
To be honest, yeah, I gave everyone a lot of rules.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
I just want to say there are no actual rules,
like be yourself and think about the person that you're
actually emailing. If you're trying to show up as more
senior and confident, these things are going to help you.
So we're just going to recap them quickly with one
action that you can start taking today. Love it.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Are you ready ready?
Speaker 5 (24:44):
All right?
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Number one, your email's too long, so instead take ten
seconds to think about the person you're sending your email
to and think like, what do they need?
Speaker 5 (24:54):
And use chat GPT.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
To reduce the text by fifty percent. Number two, your
email is upside down. Write it look for what the
point of the email is. Put that up the top,
put it in bolt. Number three. Small talk isn't warmth,
so cut the lazy how are you? Yes, use emojis
if that's the right vibe. Appreciate Say thank you in
emails can bring out warmth. But also just have a
(25:17):
conversation with each other around how you're going to email.
If you're emailing people all the time, talk about how
you're going to do it. Number four, use signposting, so
bold and bullets even on slack, Like especially on Slack,
you should be using bold and bullets. Number five, no
corporate robots fake, so read it out loud to yourself.
If you wouldn't say it, then don't write it. And
then number six, be intentional about your exclamation marks. I'm
(25:39):
not saying cut them completely, but use them in the
right places.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Oh I love these so much. They're going to help
many people.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
I learned so much from this episode, especially how it's
not about completely changing how we communicate. It's about being
intentional with our words and knowing when to be direct
versus when to add that personal touch. And sometimes the
most powerful thing you can do is just hits end
without overthinking it. Speaking of intentional communication, make sure you
(26:11):
check out this week's BUZ Newsletter, where we're sharing those
before and after email templates that's so mentioned earlier, Plus
at Hilarious TikTok about the CEO who writes three word emails.
And if you're loving these practical career tips, follow us
at biz by Mama Mia on Instagram, where we'll be
sharing more of the hacks throughout the week. I will
catch you in Thursday's biz Inbox, where we tackle all
(26:32):
of your career dilemmas. Bye Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional
owners of land and waters that this podcast is recorded
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