March 26, 2025 • 14 mins
This week we are navigating searching for a job while pregnant, firing someone and whether you invite your colleagues to your wedding.
Welcome to BIZ Inbox, your new workplace group chat where we answer the burning questions you definitely can't ask your boss. Writer and podcaster Em Vernem teams up with business powerhouse Michelle Battersby to tackle your trickiest workplace dilemmas.
If you want your work life issue solved, send us a voice note or email us at podcast@mamamia.com.au.
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HOSTS: Michelle Battersby and Em Vernem
EXEC PRODUCER: Kimberly Braddish
AUDIO PRODUCER: Leah Porges
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hello and welcome to Biz Inbox. I'm m Vernon and
I'm Michelle Battersbee, and every week we answer your burning
career questions in the simplest way possible because we're all
busy over here. We don't give you any sugarcoating answers,
just straight facts without the need of a corporate translator.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
That's right, m. This week we're getting into job hunting
whilst pregnant, firing someone, and whether you should invite your
colleagues to your wedding.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Let's jump straight into it, mishe. We received this question
from Isabelle via our Instagram DMS biz by Mamma Mia.
If you're not following us already, and she said, I've
been in my job for two years. Do I invite
my boss my wedding? I actually think about like I'm
nowhere close to getting married, but I think about this
(01:11):
way too often. I feel like I should invite my
boss to my wedding. And I really love my boss.
I would anyway, But then I feel like, once you
invite one boss, there's five other people you should also
probably invite from your workplace, Like I feel like it's
no balls until you're inviting your whole company to your wedding.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Do you hang out with your current boss that you
would invite to your wedding socially outside of work at
the moment?
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Yeah, I do, Like I really like her.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Yeah. I think that is an indicator of if this
is someone you should invite to your wedding, Like, do
you actually have a relationship with them outside of work.
I've been engaged for coming up to five years with
no wedding planning inside.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
It's happening soon maybe.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Maybe, But I heard someone put it amazingly one time
when it comes to how you should craft your invite list,
and you focus on three things past, present, future, and
for someone to get an invite to your wedding, they
should tick two of the boxes. So maybe they're like
a really really old friend. So they're in your past,
(02:20):
but you like haven't spoken to them in years because
maybe you've moved countries or something, but you kind of
know that they will be in your future in some way,
like you're going to move back. You've got the foundations,
still love them, like they can tick the box your boss,
they're very present, Like do you see them as being
someone who is going to be in your life when
(02:41):
you leave the company, And I think if you're hanging
out with them socially outside of work, that's an indication
that you've got like a bigger friendship there. And so
maybe they're a mentor maybe they're now a friend, so
they can kind of tick the box. But there's a
lot of people that you probably spend time with and
it's like just circumstantial. You know, it's because you're working
for the company right then you're like learning a new
(03:03):
hobby or something. But the root of the friendship is
in that deep. So maybe they won't be in your future.
And I just always kind of liked that as a
bit of a guiding principle. Obviously, like you're still making
assumptions predicting that you'll be friends with someone in the future,
but I think it's like a good lens to put
over how strong is your current connection with them?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
That is so smart past, present and future. Can I
ask you a question that has nothing to do with career? Yeah,
at workplace? Yeah, but what if it's like your weird
cousin's new girlfriend. Because she's not my past, she might
not be my future, but she's also not really my presence.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Do you have to invite her?
Speaker 1 (03:45):
I'd say no, Like, I also don't subscribe to just
inviting people to your wedding simply because they're family. Well, yeah,
is that controversial, But I want people at my wedding
who make the vibe great. I will be honest with this.
I've got a cousin who outright fucking hates me and
my sisters, and one of my sisters is getting There's
(04:06):
no way she'll listen to this because she absolutely hates us.
But one of my sisters is getting married. You know,
felt bad that she's not going to invite this cousin,
And I'm like, I went through my sister under the
bus and name her right now. But I'm like, she
hates us, she hates you. She will make this wedding miserable. Like,
(04:27):
this is not someone that you want in the room,
and you don't want the anxiety of kind of dealing
with someone who makes you feel uncomfortable just because they're family.
I just don't think that's right to me.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Oh oh my god, Yeah, you are much braver than
I am. But I like that analogy past, present of future.
I feel like that could change a lot of people's lives,
regardless if it's your boss or anyone.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Question Number two, I'm stressed. I'm unemployed and I've just
found out I'm pregnant. How do I get another job?
And should I tell future employers?
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (05:04):
I really feel for this person, because that is just
a lot on your plate at one time, and it
is very normal when navigating pregnancy to wonder and worry
about how it may affect your employment, because the scary
(05:25):
thing is you just don't really know how people will
respond to that and what an individual's perception judgment conditioning
is like around this topic. And unfortunately, there is research
that shows there is still discrimination that exists against pregnant
(05:46):
and parent workers and that sucks, and we really do
still have such a long way to go with this.
But it's for that reason that I would recommend if
you are pregnant and job hunting and you can hide it,
definitely do your best to through the interview process. I mean,
(06:07):
it is probably a good thing these days that so
much is virtual in that regard, but I think it's
best not to disclose your pregnant until you have the
offer on the table. You don't owe it to the interviewer.
To like let them know early in the process. I
think it is right to let them know before you
(06:29):
sign the contract, though, just shows that you're upfront. It's
like a good demonstration of your integrity, I think, But
it's also just a way to protect yourself in case
there is any bias in the room until you've got
a firm offer on the table, and then I would
just be up front with them and let them know
you know where you're at in the pregnancy, let them
(06:49):
know that you're excited about the opportunity and you know,
willing to work with them on what that period may
look like once you get there.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
I can't believe that it's still like so discriminatory against
pregnant women when it comes to find jobs and keeping jobs,
even like letting people go. I think if you can
hide it, that's great, but it also sucks that you
have to.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
I know, it absolutely does, and I wish that wasn't
the answer. But I just think there was a research
study done in Australia like last year, and it was
the first study in over a decade that looked into
this topic, and it came out with stats that did
prove that this kind of discrimination and bias did still exist.
(07:34):
But I think that's also why you do definitely want
to let them know once you've got the offer, but
before you sign, because you do also want to get
a read on what their response is, like how celebratory
they are, how accommodating they are, if they have a
family themselves, if there are examples of other parents within
(07:55):
the workplace that they've supported through their first pregnancy, second pregnancy,
whatever it is. I think those are then conversations you
can have once it's out on the table, because I
also would hate to see a pregnant woman then going
into an environment that isn't going to treat her well,
and I don't think, you know, anyone would really want that.
(08:17):
So it's also an opportunity to identify like if culturally
they're going to be a supportive and safe place for you,
which you know, you'd really hope in twenty twenty five
that that's what you're walking into. But unfortunately, and that's
the part that makes it scary, you really just don't
(08:38):
know how people will respond until you kind of start
having those conversations.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Oh well, I guess I won't get pregnant.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Then no, I would say, you're in a very good
environment to get pregnant.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Our third and final question comes from Chanel and she
wrote into the biz email, I want to write your
questions into the bits email will put a link in
our show notes. It's very easy for you. And she said,
I run a small business and I have to fire someone.
How do I do it? And how do I know
if I should do it? Oh, I've never ever ever
(09:21):
experienced this, but Mish, have you? Surely you have?
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Yes, I've fired many many people in my time. This
is tough. And as a small business owner or as
like a founder maybe early in your journey, I think
it's one of the toughest lessons that you learn. And
I always had this saying in the back of my mind,
but I kind of learned it the hard way, and
it is higher, slow, fire, fast, and that is really
(09:50):
how you need to operate in business. And I think
even if you're at the point where you're asking the
question like how do I know if I should do it,
you already know. You know. It's kind of like if
you're wondering if you'd like your boyfriend and or love
your boyfriend. If you're kind of asking that question, then
you probably know that they're not the one. It can
(10:12):
be really hard to let people go, and often, as
like a founder or as a manager, if you've hired
the person, you feel responsible, like you want them to thrive,
you want them to shine, and you can often feel
like it's your fault almost that they haven't been able
to get there, And so that can lead to you
like giving people multiple choices and kind of making excuses
(10:35):
for poor performance, which at the end of the day
just ends up making it so much more painful and
so much more excruciating then it needs to be. And
so my advice is definitely to act as fast as
possible once you get a sense that someone's not the
right person for the role. But I do operate under
(10:57):
the policy of no surprises. So if you are going
to let someone go ethically and morally, I always feel
like it should not come as a surprise to that
person that they are being let go. If it comes
as a surprise, then I don't feel like I've done
my job well enough, Like I haven't communicated with them
(11:18):
transparently enough, I haven't given them clear feedback on their performance.
I haven't maybe put them on a performance improvement plan.
I mean, I do operate a business in California where
it's at will employment. So in California we can just
fire people whenever we like, it's actually crazy. But even
with that in mind, like would always make sure have
(11:41):
been really clear with a person that they're underperforming, created
paper trails, set KPIs for them to meet with deadlines,
and then if those aren't met they are released. You
know you're setting them free. That's also another way to
think about it. But yeah, just making sure that there
is a valid business reason for the employment no longer
(12:04):
existing moments is a challenging one because it can often
feel a little bit more emotional, which is why it's
good to have everything documented and just stick to the facts.
But if the business is changing, that's usually an easier
thing to convey to someone and it's like less personal
or if you're downsizing, that also makes it easier to
let people go because it's not so tied to their
(12:27):
individual performance. That's all my advice on that.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Yeah, I also feel like as an employee, I remember
when I first started, I think that probationary period, like
if you're going to let someone go, do it during
them because for me, like I never really felt like
I was in the job until I passed that, so
I feel like if something would have happened in between
that period, it wouldn't have felt so drastic.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Yeah, definitely with probation periods like those are there for
a reason, especially in Australia, where it actually is really
hard to fire people, to be honest, like the law
is much more in favor of employees in austral as
opposed to employers like it is in the States. But yeah,
it never feels good letting people go. If it doesn't
(13:14):
hurt you a bit, then you've lost you know, compassion
or empathys as a human. So it is definitely normal
that it feels hard and it's tough. But I think
if you're acting under the guise of that no surprises policy,
then it just makes the conversations easier and you know
that you've given them a fair chance and a shot
(13:35):
to prove themselves and it just hasn't worked out. And
at the end of the day, employment is a transaction
and it happens and both parties move on. Thanks for
helping us clear the busy inbox. If you've got a
work question, send it our way. You'll find a link
to submit your questions in the show.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Notes, and if you missed any of our other episodes,
just scroll back up into your feed. We recently did
an episode on owning your redundancy. It's relevant to anyone
feeling like they're starting all over again, and we'll also
put a link to that in our show notes and
we'll be back here in your biz in box next week.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
Bye bye, Mamma.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that
this podcast is recorded on
You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hello and welcome to Biz Inbox. I'm m Vernon and
I'm Michelle Battersbee, and every week we answer your burning
career questions in the simplest way possible because we're all
busy over here. We don't give you any sugarcoating answers,
just straight facts without the need of a corporate translator.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
That's right, m. This week we're getting into job hunting
whilst pregnant, firing someone, and whether you should invite your
colleagues to your wedding.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Let's jump straight into it, mishe. We received this question
from Isabelle via our Instagram DMS biz by Mamma Mia.
If you're not following us already, and she said, I've
been in my job for two years. Do I invite
my boss my wedding? I actually think about like I'm
nowhere close to getting married, but I think about this
(01:11):
way too often. I feel like I should invite my
boss to my wedding. And I really love my boss.
I would anyway, But then I feel like, once you
invite one boss, there's five other people you should also
probably invite from your workplace, Like I feel like it's
no balls until you're inviting your whole company to your wedding.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Do you hang out with your current boss that you
would invite to your wedding socially outside of work at
the moment?
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Yeah, I do, Like I really like her.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Yeah. I think that is an indicator of if this
is someone you should invite to your wedding, Like, do
you actually have a relationship with them outside of work.
I've been engaged for coming up to five years with
no wedding planning inside.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
It's happening soon maybe.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Maybe, But I heard someone put it amazingly one time
when it comes to how you should craft your invite list,
and you focus on three things past, present, future, and
for someone to get an invite to your wedding, they
should tick two of the boxes. So maybe they're like
a really really old friend. So they're in your past,
(02:20):
but you like haven't spoken to them in years because
maybe you've moved countries or something, but you kind of
know that they will be in your future in some way,
like you're going to move back. You've got the foundations,
still love them, like they can tick the box your boss,
they're very present, Like do you see them as being
someone who is going to be in your life when
(02:41):
you leave the company, And I think if you're hanging
out with them socially outside of work, that's an indication
that you've got like a bigger friendship there. And so
maybe they're a mentor maybe they're now a friend, so
they can kind of tick the box. But there's a
lot of people that you probably spend time with and
it's like just circumstantial. You know, it's because you're working
for the company right then you're like learning a new
(03:03):
hobby or something. But the root of the friendship is
in that deep. So maybe they won't be in your future.
And I just always kind of liked that as a
bit of a guiding principle. Obviously, like you're still making
assumptions predicting that you'll be friends with someone in the future,
but I think it's like a good lens to put
over how strong is your current connection with them?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
That is so smart past, present and future. Can I
ask you a question that has nothing to do with career? Yeah,
at workplace? Yeah, but what if it's like your weird
cousin's new girlfriend. Because she's not my past, she might
not be my future, but she's also not really my presence.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Do you have to invite her?
Speaker 1 (03:45):
I'd say no, Like, I also don't subscribe to just
inviting people to your wedding simply because they're family. Well, yeah,
is that controversial, But I want people at my wedding
who make the vibe great. I will be honest with this.
I've got a cousin who outright fucking hates me and
my sisters, and one of my sisters is getting There's
(04:06):
no way she'll listen to this because she absolutely hates us.
But one of my sisters is getting married. You know,
felt bad that she's not going to invite this cousin,
And I'm like, I went through my sister under the
bus and name her right now. But I'm like, she
hates us, she hates you. She will make this wedding miserable. Like,
(04:27):
this is not someone that you want in the room,
and you don't want the anxiety of kind of dealing
with someone who makes you feel uncomfortable just because they're family.
I just don't think that's right to me.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Oh oh my god, Yeah, you are much braver than
I am. But I like that analogy past, present of future.
I feel like that could change a lot of people's lives,
regardless if it's your boss or anyone.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Question Number two, I'm stressed. I'm unemployed and I've just
found out I'm pregnant. How do I get another job?
And should I tell future employers?
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (05:04):
I really feel for this person, because that is just
a lot on your plate at one time, and it
is very normal when navigating pregnancy to wonder and worry
about how it may affect your employment, because the scary
(05:25):
thing is you just don't really know how people will
respond to that and what an individual's perception judgment conditioning
is like around this topic. And unfortunately, there is research
that shows there is still discrimination that exists against pregnant
(05:46):
and parent workers and that sucks, and we really do
still have such a long way to go with this.
But it's for that reason that I would recommend if
you are pregnant and job hunting and you can hide it,
definitely do your best to through the interview process. I mean,
(06:07):
it is probably a good thing these days that so
much is virtual in that regard, but I think it's
best not to disclose your pregnant until you have the
offer on the table. You don't owe it to the interviewer.
To like let them know early in the process. I
think it is right to let them know before you
(06:29):
sign the contract, though, just shows that you're upfront. It's
like a good demonstration of your integrity, I think, But
it's also just a way to protect yourself in case
there is any bias in the room until you've got
a firm offer on the table, and then I would
just be up front with them and let them know
you know where you're at in the pregnancy, let them
(06:49):
know that you're excited about the opportunity and you know,
willing to work with them on what that period may
look like once you get there.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
I can't believe that it's still like so discriminatory against
pregnant women when it comes to find jobs and keeping jobs,
even like letting people go. I think if you can
hide it, that's great, but it also sucks that you
have to.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
I know, it absolutely does, and I wish that wasn't
the answer. But I just think there was a research
study done in Australia like last year, and it was
the first study in over a decade that looked into
this topic, and it came out with stats that did
prove that this kind of discrimination and bias did still exist.
(07:34):
But I think that's also why you do definitely want
to let them know once you've got the offer, but
before you sign, because you do also want to get
a read on what their response is, like how celebratory
they are, how accommodating they are, if they have a
family themselves, if there are examples of other parents within
(07:55):
the workplace that they've supported through their first pregnancy, second pregnancy,
whatever it is. I think those are then conversations you
can have once it's out on the table, because I
also would hate to see a pregnant woman then going
into an environment that isn't going to treat her well,
and I don't think, you know, anyone would really want that.
(08:17):
So it's also an opportunity to identify like if culturally
they're going to be a supportive and safe place for you,
which you know, you'd really hope in twenty twenty five
that that's what you're walking into. But unfortunately, and that's
the part that makes it scary, you really just don't
(08:38):
know how people will respond until you kind of start
having those conversations.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Oh well, I guess I won't get pregnant.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Then no, I would say, you're in a very good
environment to get pregnant.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Our third and final question comes from Chanel and she
wrote into the biz email, I want to write your
questions into the bits email will put a link in
our show notes. It's very easy for you. And she said,
I run a small business and I have to fire someone.
How do I do it? And how do I know
if I should do it? Oh, I've never ever ever
(09:21):
experienced this, but Mish, have you? Surely you have?
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Yes, I've fired many many people in my time. This
is tough. And as a small business owner or as
like a founder maybe early in your journey, I think
it's one of the toughest lessons that you learn. And
I always had this saying in the back of my mind,
but I kind of learned it the hard way, and
it is higher, slow, fire, fast, and that is really
(09:50):
how you need to operate in business. And I think
even if you're at the point where you're asking the
question like how do I know if I should do it,
you already know. You know. It's kind of like if
you're wondering if you'd like your boyfriend and or love
your boyfriend. If you're kind of asking that question, then
you probably know that they're not the one. It can
(10:12):
be really hard to let people go, and often, as
like a founder or as a manager, if you've hired
the person, you feel responsible, like you want them to thrive,
you want them to shine, and you can often feel
like it's your fault almost that they haven't been able
to get there, And so that can lead to you
like giving people multiple choices and kind of making excuses
(10:35):
for poor performance, which at the end of the day
just ends up making it so much more painful and
so much more excruciating then it needs to be. And
so my advice is definitely to act as fast as
possible once you get a sense that someone's not the
right person for the role. But I do operate under
(10:57):
the policy of no surprises. So if you are going
to let someone go ethically and morally, I always feel
like it should not come as a surprise to that
person that they are being let go. If it comes
as a surprise, then I don't feel like I've done
my job well enough, Like I haven't communicated with them
(11:18):
transparently enough, I haven't given them clear feedback on their performance.
I haven't maybe put them on a performance improvement plan.
I mean, I do operate a business in California where
it's at will employment. So in California we can just
fire people whenever we like, it's actually crazy. But even
with that in mind, like would always make sure have
(11:41):
been really clear with a person that they're underperforming, created
paper trails, set KPIs for them to meet with deadlines,
and then if those aren't met they are released. You
know you're setting them free. That's also another way to
think about it. But yeah, just making sure that there
is a valid business reason for the employment no longer
(12:04):
existing moments is a challenging one because it can often
feel a little bit more emotional, which is why it's
good to have everything documented and just stick to the facts.
But if the business is changing, that's usually an easier
thing to convey to someone and it's like less personal
or if you're downsizing, that also makes it easier to
let people go because it's not so tied to their
(12:27):
individual performance. That's all my advice on that.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Yeah, I also feel like as an employee, I remember
when I first started, I think that probationary period, like
if you're going to let someone go, do it during
them because for me, like I never really felt like
I was in the job until I passed that, so
I feel like if something would have happened in between
that period, it wouldn't have felt so drastic.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Yeah, definitely with probation periods like those are there for
a reason, especially in Australia, where it actually is really
hard to fire people, to be honest, like the law
is much more in favor of employees in austral as
opposed to employers like it is in the States. But yeah,
it never feels good letting people go. If it doesn't
(13:14):
hurt you a bit, then you've lost you know, compassion
or empathys as a human. So it is definitely normal
that it feels hard and it's tough. But I think
if you're acting under the guise of that no surprises policy,
then it just makes the conversations easier and you know
that you've given them a fair chance and a shot
(13:35):
to prove themselves and it just hasn't worked out. And
at the end of the day, employment is a transaction
and it happens and both parties move on. Thanks for
helping us clear the busy inbox. If you've got a
work question, send it our way. You'll find a link
to submit your questions in the show.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Notes, and if you missed any of our other episodes,
just scroll back up into your feed. We recently did
an episode on owning your redundancy. It's relevant to anyone
feeling like they're starting all over again, and we'll also
put a link to that in our show notes and
we'll be back here in your biz in box next week.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
Bye bye, Mamma.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that
this podcast is recorded on
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