April 2, 2025 • 17 mins
Today we tackle some extra juicy workplace dilemmas that are all submitted by you anonymously! If you’re saddled with a slack coworker, we’ll tell you the sentence to use with your boss to instigate change. Plus we’ll discuss how to deal with a manager’s vague instruction and the dodgy desk etiquette we hate.
Welcome to BIZ Inbox, your new workplace group chat where we answer the burning questions you definitely can't ask your boss. Writer and podcaster Em Vernem teams up with super career coach Soph Hirst to tackle your trickiest workplace dilemmas.
If you want your work life issue solved, send us a voice note or email us at podcast@mamamia.com.au.
Sign up to the BIZ newsletter here and follow the Biz Instagram here.
See Em’s list of 23 workplace rules you’re definitely breaking.
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HOSTS: Soph Hirst and Em Vernem
EXEC PRODUCER: Georgie Page
AUDIO PRODUCER: Leah Porges
Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to I'MM with Me podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hello and welcome to Biz Inbox. I'm m Vernon and
today I have so first YEA. Every week we answer
your burning career questions in the simplest way possible because
we're busy. We know you're busy, so we're not going
to sugarcoat anything. We're just going to give you real
answers without the need of a corporate translator.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
This week we're getting into working well with the team,
vague managers and desk etiquette.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Super spicy questions this week, which is why this week
in particular, we've chosen all of the questions to be
from completely anonymous submissions. So if you do have a
burning career or workplace question that you're kind of scared
to put your name on, you can just email us
message us dm US anonymously and we won't say your name.
Your secret is kept with us. So the first one
(01:11):
we're going to get into came through our inbox and
it said, I'm working with a teammate on a project
and they keep missing the deadlines. It's so frustrating. Should
I tell my manager? And is it ever okay to
throw someone under the bus? This question is so spicy
to me because I've had definitely experiences of working with
(01:32):
someone and them just not pulling their weight. But I
never thought about escalating that. I'd always just do all
the work. And then I just talked to my manager
and say, I'd rather work on projects by myself.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Interesting, Okay, have you ever had the flip happen where
a coworker has saved you, like they could have thrown
you under the bus and they actually didn't and saved you.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Yes, I've had that happen to me many times. Yeah,
Like I think about those moments all the time.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
I know you're like, I'm going to love you forever.
I remember I had this woman I was I just
started working at Google. Maybe it was like six months in,
like long enough that you're meant to know what you're doing,
but I still did not, and we had this like
a weekly whip with our manager. And our team was
quite small at the time. I think it was even
just three people. And at the end of the quarter,
you have to have spent one hundred percent of your budget.
(02:23):
So most companies, if you go over budget, you get
in trouble. At Google, it was like if you went
under budget you got control. I hadn't spent so I
was like way under budget and our team was way
under budget.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
But it was my fault.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
And our manager in the meeting was like, why are
we so out of the budget. This is a real problem,
and my teammates jumped in. He's like, no, soph and
I had already talked about it. We're gonna split some
budget between us and figure things out straight after this.
We'll send you an email. It's all sorted. And he
just saved me in the meeting. It was completely my fault.
I'm like, I'm gonna love you forever. So like, back
to the question that this person sent in, is it
ever okay to throw someone under the bus if it's
(02:56):
a last resort, But first you have to ask yourself
two things. So one, have you tried everything you can
to resolve it directly with the person first? And then two,
what is your motivation for actually throwing someone under the bus,
Because sometimes people think they can do it by making
someone else look bad they look better, and it's a
really bad.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Idea to do that.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
So first of all, in this situation, I think this
person keeps missing project deadlines, which is actually super annoying
and it can make you look bad and it can
be actually bad for the outcome of the project. So
to your point, Emmern, you're taking all the work on
and then you know, just asking not to collaborate with
people anymore. It's like what you could do is talk
(03:37):
to the person first and try and ask, you know,
is there something going on for you?
Speaker 3 (03:40):
What is making it hard for you to meet these deadlines?
Speaker 1 (03:43):
I mean, people have got a lot of stuff going
in their lives, and so I always appreciate the coworkers
who first just come and talk to you about stuff
and trying to actually ask you if there is something
that they can do to help. Really good tip for
this is instead of using why questions like why aren't
you hitting deadlines?
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Use what and how questions.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
So say to them like, what is making it hard
for you to hit these deadlines? Or how is it
that I can help you? If you use why, like
why aren't you doing this, it can sound quite accusatory
and it can kind of make the vible so interesting.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Yeah, I always love that little tip.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
It's like such a simple word switch.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
I know. I think it's because from when we're young,
you're like getting in trouble and your parents are.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Like, why did you do this?
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (04:20):
So true.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
I'm sure there's some like hardcore psychology behind it, but
always try and resolve it with your coworker first. But
there are actually situations where people just won't fix it
and it's actually making the project result bad, or it's
like it's actually bad for the work, or it like
can damage your reputation. So one other thing that you
can do is before you sort of, you know, escalate
and make someone look bad, you can ask your manager
(04:42):
for advice, so you can sort of just give them
the heads up like this is the situation. Instead of saying,
Alex keeps missing the deadlines and it's messing the project up,
you might want to say, we've had some timeline issues.
I've tried X y Z with Alex, but we're still struggling.
Do you have any advice for other things I could try, so,
you know, notifying your manager that there maybe are some issues.
You're doing what you can, but you know you're keeping
(05:04):
it professional not personal.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
That's what I would do.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Ah, that's such good advice. Write that down everyone.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
I think in general, like it's not throwing someone under
the bus. If you are trying to save sort of
the project or the work outcome, and you're like, you've
done what you can to help this person. But it's
also just keep in mind the thing I said at
the start, which is those moments when your coworkers save you,
like you've got a friend for life.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
And then like, also you could probably be that for them,
like you can save them and they'll think about it
and then it probably might adjust their behavior.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
That's actually so true.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Yeah, yeah, okay, So the next question has come in
through a voice message on our Instagram page biz by
Mama Mia. Please follow us if you don't already. We
post so much on there. And this is what they said.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Okay, I need help.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
My manager is super vague and unclear, kind of random.
Sometimes they give me tasks and then when I do
them and show them, they say it's not what they wanted.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
It's killing me. I'm certain it's not me hearing them wrong.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
And have you seen that Elon Musk meme where it's
like it's a photo of Elamsk and he's obviously just
announced another project or something random, and then Baron Trump
is standing next to him. Oh yeah, he's just looking
really scared and solemn, and the one that I saw
it was like above elamusk management, don't worry, We'll get
it done somehow. And then this solemn baron is like
(06:25):
me knowing I'm somehow. That's how it feels sometimes if
you've got a super random manager who's like, let's do
this and this and this, and you're like.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
I'm the person who's supposed to be getting this done.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Yes, Oh my god, I'm getting like a little bit
triggered from this.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
I think it's really hard. There definitely has been times
where I've had not necessarily a manager, but just someone
who's higher than me say they want to get this done,
this done, this done, And like I'm in a meeting
with fifty people and we all know that I'm meant
to be the person to be getting this done.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
And that's why I think I have an aversion, which
I have said before, to brainstorm meetings, Like I actually
hate brainstorm meetings because I'm a doer and everyone knows
I'm a doer and they all expect me because that's
just been who I am since I've started working. I
am always a person, even though I'm such a creative person.
I'm always a person that you do the brainstorm, just
(07:20):
tell me what I need to do. But then when
I'm in that brainstorm, I just start sweating because these
ideas get bigger and bigger and bigger, and then they
leave and they go out for lunch and never come back,
and then I'm stuck having to do everything they brainstorm.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
My manager gave me some advice about this exact thing once,
and he said, sometimes so you just have to let
balls drop. So I think someone like you probably who's
used to picking up all these loose ends and like
getting it done, and that's your reputation. That's awesome, right,
and like don't stop doing that. But sometimes you can't
be the person who's always doing that, and sometimes you
just have to let things go. And if someone's gonna
(07:55):
come and chase you, or like something doesn't get done,
or hey, that's actually someone else's job anyway. Always been
the person who's like taking the action items and taking
things on. Sometimes you just have to push back a
little bit as well. But back to the manager, like
giving your tasks, and when you show them the tasks,
like they say, it's not what you want, and they're
just like giving you a bunch of stuff. This like
never really goes away. It'll happened to you all throughout
your career. And it's a skill that if you can learn,
(08:18):
like master this skill now, it will help you so
much in your career. So it's such a it's such
a sick skill to be able to manage managers like this.
And I will just say one thing, which is, as
a manager, it's quite.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Easy to do this.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
It's quite easy to kind of get excited about things
or not really know all of the tasks that you're
handing over to someone, and just to keep piling things
on them and to sometimes be unclear, Like I tried
so hard, you know, as a manager to be awesome,
Like I spent you know, eighty percent of my mental
space trying to be an awesome manager. And I know
that I still did this to my report sometimes. So
(08:53):
here's what you can do. Try and remember this acronym
per per. The first one is point. So ask your
manager like, what is the point of this?
Speaker 3 (09:03):
What is the purpose?
Speaker 1 (09:04):
So something I would always like to do is sort
of say to them, you know, I really like knowing
how things fit into the bigger picture. Can you kind
of explain to me what bigger priority this ladder is
up to or what problem this is going to help solve.
So first like point and then the next one is
end product, so ask them like, do you have something
in mind for what you think the end product actually.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Looks like for this? So that's all about like have
they actually thought it through?
Speaker 1 (09:25):
It is so easy as a manager to not actually
think something through and just be like this sounds like
a good idea in my head and then task someone
with it. That awesome person takes it really seriously and
they're like, I'm going to try and do this, but
it can be completely impossible. So to kind of get
them to think through well, actually like is this a
document that I wanted to do? Is it like a
whole project? I think that one can really help end product.
(09:47):
And then the last one is replay, So replay what
you think that you have interpreted from what they said
back to them so that they can actually correct it
if it's not.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
What they said.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
So you might say something like, you know, to confirm,
you'd like me to do X and have it ready
by why does that sound right?
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Gives them an opportunity to correct if they haven't actually
thought about it.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
That's actually such good advice because I feel like early
in my career when I just wanted to impress people,
I was just told that just say yes to everything,
so they'd be like these massive projects and stuff that
I just say yes too and then completely butcher them
because I actually didn't know what I was meant to
be doing.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
It's so true, do you know as well?
Speaker 1 (10:28):
It's like, if you can just ask a few questions
in the moment, it can save you so much time. Also,
I think the hardest thing to learn in your career
is you're not meant to do everything that your manager
tells you to do. But sometimes if you kind of
just let things slide and don't bring them up again,
they'll be like, what about that thing I told you
to do?
Speaker 3 (10:46):
So you sort of do need to remember everything they
told you to do.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
The line is like always changing, and it's very blurry,
and it's very hard to figure out, like what things
am I meant to remember and do and then what
things were they actually like not that serious about anyway.
One thing that I do like is if you kind
of think they just like had this idea.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
In the moment and they weren't really that serious about it.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Anyway, the next week that you have that meeting with him,
you can kind of just say, you know, last week
we aligned on a do you still want me to
move forward with that or is this now a bigger priority?
Because sometimes other things will come up and they'll be like, actually,
that wasn't really that important anyway.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Right, okay, And I think it will make them realize that, like,
oh yeah, I probably should have told her that.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Like a lot of this, by the way, a lot
of the owners on this is in managers. I think
it is your manager's responsibility to be delegating tasks clearly
to you, definitely giving you the end goal. They don't
always need to tell you the how to get there,
but they always need to be giving you clarity around
the end goal. And I think a lot of this
actually comes from people not being trained in terms of
how to delegate and manage properly.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
So good, okay, So well, after the break, we are
going to be getting into a question about workplace desk politics.
It's a juicy.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
One, okay.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
And this episode's been pretty serious and working. I think
we need to lighten it up and have a little
bit of fun. This question comes in and it like, honestly,
I was getting so triggered reading it. The question is
my coworkers give me side eyes when I do zoom
meetings at my desk with my headphones on. But where
else am I supposed to do them? Is it okay
(12:21):
to do calls at my desk?
Speaker 3 (12:24):
M What do you think for me personally?
Speaker 2 (12:26):
I'm like, yeah, calls is not the biggest issue that
I have with my desk mates. Okay, So I want
to kind of expand this.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Okay, I want a whole list of your issues that
you have with your desk, Maes.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
I've been working at a desk for around six years now,
so I've experienced a lot. I think we can broaden
this out to I guess what's appropriate to do at
your desk and what isn't. And I have done a
very controversial list of workplace etiquettes I will link in
the show notes because I feel like people would.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Love to fight about that.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
But for me, I think there's so many other things,
like shoes off. Like I've had people who've had their
shoes off at their desks who are like either sitting
opposite me or next to me.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
What offends you about that?
Speaker 2 (13:09):
It's just we're in a workplace, Like I don't need
to see your dogs in like my time, Like I'm
not getting paid to watch that.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
It's too much.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
I think. Also, talking and laughing really loudly at your desk.
I'm not like a fun police. I am a really
fun person. I enjoy a laugh and a giggle and
a talk. But I think it's the constant laughing and
talking and then not inviting me into that, Like when
I see like two desk mates like having a big
chat and I'm like, oh, at least include me. But
(13:40):
I understand the whole meeting at the desk if it's
really loud. I mean, there are workplaces like our office
right now. The meeting rooms do get booked quite a lot,
so there's no other place to have a meeting, but
at your desk. I would just be careful of what
kind of meeting it is. Like if you're having a
meeting and you're it's like a really private meeting. Sometimes
I can't be.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Heard in another peace in office.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Yeah, it's so hard, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
I want to hear some more on your list, and
then maybe I can add to it as well, because
I have a lot of issues with desk behavior as well,
but this is kind of the problem. Like I remember,
I actually got in trouble for this exact thing. So
it was when sort of video calls first became a thing,
maybe I don't know, five, six, seven years ago, and
I was taking them all at my desk and my
manager actually had to pull me aside and say, just
(14:26):
want you to know some people have said that your
voice is really loud when you're taking these calls, and
we need to figure out something else.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
So I actually got like, this was me.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
If they're not a bunch of places where you actually
can take these calls, then literally where else are you
supposed to take them? So yeah, you sort of do
have to take them at your desk.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Sometimes.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
I'm a big fan of the phone call walking meeting,
so if it's someone that you can do it as
a phone call with, but often you're like looking at
docs and typing, so it's not it's not going to work.
But can I add some more things to your lists
that annoy me that people do?
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Please, This is kind of the opposite of making noise,
but this annoys me. If you are having a conversation
with someone and you like talking about probably like a
work thing, and someone else who is not anything to
do with the project or the conversation just sits there
staring at you guys and like maybe it's because we're
talking too loudly in retrospect, but say you're not talking
too loudly. Sometimes they would just sit there and stare
(15:16):
and like listen in I'm like, why are you listening
to this? And then the other one that sometimes annoys
me kind of the opposite of what you said, which
is if everyone's having he so fun and like having
a laugh and there's someone that's just sitting there the
whole time with their headphones on. They never talk, they
never interact for like long periods of time. I'm like,
you are bringing the vibe down, and that is annoying.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
That's actually so true.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Every hour or so, just take your headphones off and
give us a little something.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Yeah, what about people who like if you have your
headphones on? Because I guess I'm like in the editorial section,
we're all riders. So sometimes we'll be in the zone
of like writing a piece and then someone will just
like tap you on the shoulder and just be like
take him off, take them off. And you take them
off and they'll be like, how's your day? I'm like,
what do you mean?
Speaker 3 (16:00):
How is my day?
Speaker 1 (16:01):
There? So I guess it's like, don't do it to us,
don't wear your head phones, but then don't interrupt us.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
If we're wearing our headphones, that's bad. We're bad. That's bad.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
So yeah, back to the question. Then, what do you reckon?
Can you take zoom calls at your desk?
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (16:16):
Yeah, I go, yes, but try and keep your voice
a little bit low.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Learn from my mistakes, and then also tell your co
workers that they're getting some juicy details from your meetings.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
It's a win win.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Make the call really interesting, just like drop some little
like in jokes in personal exactly. Okay, thank you for
helping us clear the b's inbox today. If you've got
a work question, send it our way. As you know,
we won't include your name. If you don't want us to.
You'll find a link to submit those questions in the
show notes, or drop me a DM on Instagram.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
I love hearing from you guys.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Oh my god, I'm going to drop you a damn
cause I keep me enough. And if you missed it
earlier this week, Mission so did a really big episode
on time blocking and how it can actually give you
your hours back. Head back into the feed to check
it out. We'll also put a link in our show
notes and we'll be back here in the inbox next week.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
Bye bye, Mamma.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that
this podcast is recorded on
You're listening to I'MM with Me podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hello and welcome to Biz Inbox. I'm m Vernon and
today I have so first YEA. Every week we answer
your burning career questions in the simplest way possible because
we're busy. We know you're busy, so we're not going
to sugarcoat anything. We're just going to give you real
answers without the need of a corporate translator.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
This week we're getting into working well with the team,
vague managers and desk etiquette.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Super spicy questions this week, which is why this week
in particular, we've chosen all of the questions to be
from completely anonymous submissions. So if you do have a
burning career or workplace question that you're kind of scared
to put your name on, you can just email us
message us dm US anonymously and we won't say your name.
Your secret is kept with us. So the first one
(01:11):
we're going to get into came through our inbox and
it said, I'm working with a teammate on a project
and they keep missing the deadlines. It's so frustrating. Should
I tell my manager? And is it ever okay to
throw someone under the bus? This question is so spicy
to me because I've had definitely experiences of working with
(01:32):
someone and them just not pulling their weight. But I
never thought about escalating that. I'd always just do all
the work. And then I just talked to my manager
and say, I'd rather work on projects by myself.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Interesting, Okay, have you ever had the flip happen where
a coworker has saved you, like they could have thrown
you under the bus and they actually didn't and saved you.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Yes, I've had that happen to me many times. Yeah,
Like I think about those moments all the time.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
I know you're like, I'm going to love you forever.
I remember I had this woman I was I just
started working at Google. Maybe it was like six months in,
like long enough that you're meant to know what you're doing,
but I still did not, and we had this like
a weekly whip with our manager. And our team was
quite small at the time. I think it was even
just three people. And at the end of the quarter,
you have to have spent one hundred percent of your budget.
(02:23):
So most companies, if you go over budget, you get
in trouble. At Google, it was like if you went
under budget you got control. I hadn't spent so I
was like way under budget and our team was way
under budget.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
But it was my fault.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
And our manager in the meeting was like, why are
we so out of the budget. This is a real problem,
and my teammates jumped in. He's like, no, soph and
I had already talked about it. We're gonna split some
budget between us and figure things out straight after this.
We'll send you an email. It's all sorted. And he
just saved me in the meeting. It was completely my fault.
I'm like, I'm gonna love you forever. So like, back
to the question that this person sent in, is it
ever okay to throw someone under the bus if it's
(02:56):
a last resort, But first you have to ask yourself
two things. So one, have you tried everything you can
to resolve it directly with the person first? And then two,
what is your motivation for actually throwing someone under the bus,
Because sometimes people think they can do it by making
someone else look bad they look better, and it's a
really bad.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Idea to do that.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
So first of all, in this situation, I think this
person keeps missing project deadlines, which is actually super annoying
and it can make you look bad and it can
be actually bad for the outcome of the project. So
to your point, Emmern, you're taking all the work on
and then you know, just asking not to collaborate with
people anymore. It's like what you could do is talk
(03:37):
to the person first and try and ask, you know,
is there something going on for you?
Speaker 3 (03:40):
What is making it hard for you to meet these deadlines?
Speaker 1 (03:43):
I mean, people have got a lot of stuff going
in their lives, and so I always appreciate the coworkers
who first just come and talk to you about stuff
and trying to actually ask you if there is something
that they can do to help. Really good tip for
this is instead of using why questions like why aren't
you hitting deadlines?
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Use what and how questions.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
So say to them like, what is making it hard
for you to hit these deadlines? Or how is it
that I can help you? If you use why, like
why aren't you doing this, it can sound quite accusatory
and it can kind of make the vible so interesting.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Yeah, I always love that little tip.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
It's like such a simple word switch.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
I know. I think it's because from when we're young,
you're like getting in trouble and your parents are.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Like, why did you do this?
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (04:20):
So true.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
I'm sure there's some like hardcore psychology behind it, but
always try and resolve it with your coworker first. But
there are actually situations where people just won't fix it
and it's actually making the project result bad, or it's
like it's actually bad for the work, or it like
can damage your reputation. So one other thing that you
can do is before you sort of, you know, escalate
and make someone look bad, you can ask your manager
(04:42):
for advice, so you can sort of just give them
the heads up like this is the situation. Instead of saying,
Alex keeps missing the deadlines and it's messing the project up,
you might want to say, we've had some timeline issues.
I've tried X y Z with Alex, but we're still struggling.
Do you have any advice for other things I could try, so,
you know, notifying your manager that there maybe are some issues.
You're doing what you can, but you know you're keeping
(05:04):
it professional not personal.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
That's what I would do.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Ah, that's such good advice. Write that down everyone.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
I think in general, like it's not throwing someone under
the bus. If you are trying to save sort of
the project or the work outcome, and you're like, you've
done what you can to help this person. But it's
also just keep in mind the thing I said at
the start, which is those moments when your coworkers save you,
like you've got a friend for life.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
And then like, also you could probably be that for them,
like you can save them and they'll think about it
and then it probably might adjust their behavior.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
That's actually so true.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Yeah, yeah, okay, So the next question has come in
through a voice message on our Instagram page biz by
Mama Mia. Please follow us if you don't already. We
post so much on there. And this is what they said.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Okay, I need help.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
My manager is super vague and unclear, kind of random.
Sometimes they give me tasks and then when I do
them and show them, they say it's not what they wanted.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
It's killing me. I'm certain it's not me hearing them wrong.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
And have you seen that Elon Musk meme where it's
like it's a photo of Elamsk and he's obviously just
announced another project or something random, and then Baron Trump
is standing next to him. Oh yeah, he's just looking
really scared and solemn, and the one that I saw
it was like above elamusk management, don't worry, We'll get
it done somehow. And then this solemn baron is like
(06:25):
me knowing I'm somehow. That's how it feels sometimes if
you've got a super random manager who's like, let's do
this and this and this, and you're like.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
I'm the person who's supposed to be getting this done.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Yes, Oh my god, I'm getting like a little bit
triggered from this.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
I think it's really hard. There definitely has been times
where I've had not necessarily a manager, but just someone
who's higher than me say they want to get this done,
this done, this done, And like I'm in a meeting
with fifty people and we all know that I'm meant
to be the person to be getting this done.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
And that's why I think I have an aversion, which
I have said before, to brainstorm meetings, Like I actually
hate brainstorm meetings because I'm a doer and everyone knows
I'm a doer and they all expect me because that's
just been who I am since I've started working. I
am always a person, even though I'm such a creative person.
I'm always a person that you do the brainstorm, just
(07:20):
tell me what I need to do. But then when
I'm in that brainstorm, I just start sweating because these
ideas get bigger and bigger and bigger, and then they
leave and they go out for lunch and never come back,
and then I'm stuck having to do everything they brainstorm.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
My manager gave me some advice about this exact thing once,
and he said, sometimes so you just have to let
balls drop. So I think someone like you probably who's
used to picking up all these loose ends and like
getting it done, and that's your reputation. That's awesome, right,
and like don't stop doing that. But sometimes you can't
be the person who's always doing that, and sometimes you
just have to let things go. And if someone's gonna
(07:55):
come and chase you, or like something doesn't get done,
or hey, that's actually someone else's job anyway. Always been
the person who's like taking the action items and taking
things on. Sometimes you just have to push back a
little bit as well. But back to the manager, like
giving your tasks, and when you show them the tasks,
like they say, it's not what you want, and they're
just like giving you a bunch of stuff. This like
never really goes away. It'll happened to you all throughout
your career. And it's a skill that if you can learn,
(08:18):
like master this skill now, it will help you so
much in your career. So it's such a it's such
a sick skill to be able to manage managers like this.
And I will just say one thing, which is, as
a manager, it's quite.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Easy to do this.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
It's quite easy to kind of get excited about things
or not really know all of the tasks that you're
handing over to someone, and just to keep piling things
on them and to sometimes be unclear, Like I tried
so hard, you know, as a manager to be awesome,
Like I spent you know, eighty percent of my mental
space trying to be an awesome manager. And I know
that I still did this to my report sometimes. So
(08:53):
here's what you can do. Try and remember this acronym
per per. The first one is point. So ask your
manager like, what is the point of this?
Speaker 3 (09:03):
What is the purpose?
Speaker 1 (09:04):
So something I would always like to do is sort
of say to them, you know, I really like knowing
how things fit into the bigger picture. Can you kind
of explain to me what bigger priority this ladder is
up to or what problem this is going to help solve.
So first like point and then the next one is
end product, so ask them like, do you have something
in mind for what you think the end product actually.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Looks like for this? So that's all about like have
they actually thought it through?
Speaker 1 (09:25):
It is so easy as a manager to not actually
think something through and just be like this sounds like
a good idea in my head and then task someone
with it. That awesome person takes it really seriously and
they're like, I'm going to try and do this, but
it can be completely impossible. So to kind of get
them to think through well, actually like is this a
document that I wanted to do? Is it like a
whole project? I think that one can really help end product.
(09:47):
And then the last one is replay, So replay what
you think that you have interpreted from what they said
back to them so that they can actually correct it
if it's not.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
What they said.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
So you might say something like, you know, to confirm,
you'd like me to do X and have it ready
by why does that sound right?
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Gives them an opportunity to correct if they haven't actually
thought about it.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
That's actually such good advice because I feel like early
in my career when I just wanted to impress people,
I was just told that just say yes to everything,
so they'd be like these massive projects and stuff that
I just say yes too and then completely butcher them
because I actually didn't know what I was meant to
be doing.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
It's so true, do you know as well?
Speaker 1 (10:28):
It's like, if you can just ask a few questions
in the moment, it can save you so much time. Also,
I think the hardest thing to learn in your career
is you're not meant to do everything that your manager
tells you to do. But sometimes if you kind of
just let things slide and don't bring them up again,
they'll be like, what about that thing I told you
to do?
Speaker 3 (10:46):
So you sort of do need to remember everything they
told you to do.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
The line is like always changing, and it's very blurry,
and it's very hard to figure out, like what things
am I meant to remember and do and then what
things were they actually like not that serious about anyway.
One thing that I do like is if you kind
of think they just like had this idea.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
In the moment and they weren't really that serious about it.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Anyway, the next week that you have that meeting with him,
you can kind of just say, you know, last week
we aligned on a do you still want me to
move forward with that or is this now a bigger priority?
Because sometimes other things will come up and they'll be like, actually,
that wasn't really that important anyway.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Right, okay, And I think it will make them realize that, like,
oh yeah, I probably should have told her that.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Like a lot of this, by the way, a lot
of the owners on this is in managers. I think
it is your manager's responsibility to be delegating tasks clearly
to you, definitely giving you the end goal. They don't
always need to tell you the how to get there,
but they always need to be giving you clarity around
the end goal. And I think a lot of this
actually comes from people not being trained in terms of
how to delegate and manage properly.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
So good, okay, So well, after the break, we are
going to be getting into a question about workplace desk politics.
It's a juicy.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
One, okay.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
And this episode's been pretty serious and working. I think
we need to lighten it up and have a little
bit of fun. This question comes in and it like, honestly,
I was getting so triggered reading it. The question is
my coworkers give me side eyes when I do zoom
meetings at my desk with my headphones on. But where
else am I supposed to do them? Is it okay
(12:21):
to do calls at my desk?
Speaker 3 (12:24):
M What do you think for me personally?
Speaker 2 (12:26):
I'm like, yeah, calls is not the biggest issue that
I have with my desk mates. Okay, So I want
to kind of expand this.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Okay, I want a whole list of your issues that
you have with your desk, Maes.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
I've been working at a desk for around six years now,
so I've experienced a lot. I think we can broaden
this out to I guess what's appropriate to do at
your desk and what isn't. And I have done a
very controversial list of workplace etiquettes I will link in
the show notes because I feel like people would.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Love to fight about that.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
But for me, I think there's so many other things,
like shoes off. Like I've had people who've had their
shoes off at their desks who are like either sitting
opposite me or next to me.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
What offends you about that?
Speaker 2 (13:09):
It's just we're in a workplace, Like I don't need
to see your dogs in like my time, Like I'm
not getting paid to watch that.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
It's too much.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
I think. Also, talking and laughing really loudly at your desk.
I'm not like a fun police. I am a really
fun person. I enjoy a laugh and a giggle and
a talk. But I think it's the constant laughing and
talking and then not inviting me into that, Like when
I see like two desk mates like having a big
chat and I'm like, oh, at least include me. But
(13:40):
I understand the whole meeting at the desk if it's
really loud. I mean, there are workplaces like our office
right now. The meeting rooms do get booked quite a lot,
so there's no other place to have a meeting, but
at your desk. I would just be careful of what
kind of meeting it is. Like if you're having a
meeting and you're it's like a really private meeting. Sometimes
I can't be.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Heard in another peace in office.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Yeah, it's so hard, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
I want to hear some more on your list, and
then maybe I can add to it as well, because
I have a lot of issues with desk behavior as well,
but this is kind of the problem. Like I remember,
I actually got in trouble for this exact thing. So
it was when sort of video calls first became a thing,
maybe I don't know, five, six, seven years ago, and
I was taking them all at my desk and my
manager actually had to pull me aside and say, just
(14:26):
want you to know some people have said that your
voice is really loud when you're taking these calls, and
we need to figure out something else.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
So I actually got like, this was me.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
If they're not a bunch of places where you actually
can take these calls, then literally where else are you
supposed to take them? So yeah, you sort of do
have to take them at your desk.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Sometimes.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
I'm a big fan of the phone call walking meeting,
so if it's someone that you can do it as
a phone call with, but often you're like looking at
docs and typing, so it's not it's not going to work.
But can I add some more things to your lists
that annoy me that people do?
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Please, This is kind of the opposite of making noise,
but this annoys me. If you are having a conversation
with someone and you like talking about probably like a
work thing, and someone else who is not anything to
do with the project or the conversation just sits there
staring at you guys and like maybe it's because we're
talking too loudly in retrospect, but say you're not talking
too loudly. Sometimes they would just sit there and stare
(15:16):
and like listen in I'm like, why are you listening
to this? And then the other one that sometimes annoys
me kind of the opposite of what you said, which
is if everyone's having he so fun and like having
a laugh and there's someone that's just sitting there the
whole time with their headphones on. They never talk, they
never interact for like long periods of time. I'm like,
you are bringing the vibe down, and that is annoying.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
That's actually so true.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Every hour or so, just take your headphones off and
give us a little something.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Yeah, what about people who like if you have your
headphones on? Because I guess I'm like in the editorial section,
we're all riders. So sometimes we'll be in the zone
of like writing a piece and then someone will just
like tap you on the shoulder and just be like
take him off, take them off. And you take them
off and they'll be like, how's your day? I'm like,
what do you mean?
Speaker 3 (16:00):
How is my day?
Speaker 1 (16:01):
There? So I guess it's like, don't do it to us,
don't wear your head phones, but then don't interrupt us.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
If we're wearing our headphones, that's bad. We're bad. That's bad.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
So yeah, back to the question. Then, what do you reckon?
Can you take zoom calls at your desk?
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (16:16):
Yeah, I go, yes, but try and keep your voice
a little bit low.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Learn from my mistakes, and then also tell your co
workers that they're getting some juicy details from your meetings.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
It's a win win.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Make the call really interesting, just like drop some little
like in jokes in personal exactly. Okay, thank you for
helping us clear the b's inbox today. If you've got
a work question, send it our way. As you know,
we won't include your name. If you don't want us to.
You'll find a link to submit those questions in the
show notes, or drop me a DM on Instagram.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
I love hearing from you guys.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Oh my god, I'm going to drop you a damn
cause I keep me enough. And if you missed it
earlier this week, Mission so did a really big episode
on time blocking and how it can actually give you
your hours back. Head back into the feed to check
it out. We'll also put a link in our show
notes and we'll be back here in the inbox next week.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
Bye bye, Mamma.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that
this podcast is recorded on
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