April 30, 2025 • 16 mins
How important is it to ‘drink the koolaid’ at work? Today Em Vernem and Soph Hirst explain why this argument is flawed, and what you do need to do to get ahead.
Plus we deep dive into career development plans and will teach you how to be the architect, not the passenger, of your own career.
And finally we asked you on our Biz instagram about the most unhinged thing a boss has said to you and we are APPALLED. You won’t believe some of the answers we share.
Welcome to BIZ Inbox, where we turn your anonymous workplace questions into actionable advice. Think of us as your career group chat. Consider this your chance to get free career advice from people who've been there.
Sign up to the BIZ newsletter here to get Soph’s framework for reaching your career development goals.
If you want your work life issue solved, send us a voice note or email us at podcast@mamamia.com.au. You can be anon!
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Support independent women's media
Follow the Biz Instagram, Michelle’s startup Sunroom and Soph’s career coaching business Workbaby.
HOSTS: Soph Hirst and Em Vernem
EXEC PRODUCER: Georgie Page
AUDIO PRODUCER: Leah Porges
Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to I'm Mom with Mer podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Welcome to biz in Box. I'm murn m.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Oh and I'm so first.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Every week we are answering your burning career questions in
the simplest way possible because we're busy and so are you.
So can you please teach me one thing that you
learned work wise this week?
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Okay, for fifteen years, I've been telling myself I'm going
to learn keyboard shot cuts, and I finally freaking started. Hey,
just doing little what kind of Yeah, just like you
know the classic ones that you're using all the time,
like command VP. Yeah, exactly, But that's the only one
everyone knows, right, So it's like there's like twenty others
that I really saw. There's more, But I got some
really good advice, which has just been fifteen minutes a
(00:55):
week learning tho keyboard short cuts and you actually don't
need that long. That's my thing this week, and I'm
going to share them with you guys on social so
you can all learn them as well.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
So smart, how much time do you think you say
of doing that?
Speaker 3 (01:05):
I actually got the data on this, and someone, of
course you got the data.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
I heard it on a.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Tim Ferrer's podcast. It's insane. It's like twenty hours a
month or something. It's like ment. Also, yes, that's so good.
Years off your life.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Oh my god, I'm yessed.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
And this week we're getting into whether you really need
a career development plan? Unhinge boss comments and a really
fascinating video I found on TikTok that I want to
unpack with you.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
What a good way?
Speaker 3 (01:37):
So someone DMed this video to me and they asked,
is this actually true?
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Drinking the kool aid will make your work life easier
and might even get you a promotion. This is something
that I wish someone had explained to me when I
was in my early career. It's so easy to get
bogged down by how you think things should be. And
trust me, I get it. When I was in my
early career, there were so many times where I was
convinced that my way was the only way, and even
if I was right, it just made me miserable and
(02:03):
probably really annoying to work with. Let's break this down.
Drinking the kool aid here just means buying into the
team's vision, and when you do that, you're not constantly
battling your internal conflict. You're not wasting your energy fighting
battles that you don't need to. So what happens if
you don't drink the kool Aid, Well, you may start
to feel really isolated. You might develop strained relationships with
your managers and co workers, and honestly, who wants that,
(02:25):
Like it'll lead to frustration. You'll be that person pushing
back on ideas, even if they're really good ideas. Ultimately,
you're going to miss out on opportunities and grow stagnant.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
And then she goes on to say that if you
drink the kool Aid, you're going to be happier, more productive,
You'll have this shared sense of purpose, and you'll actually
get promoted faster, which is kind of the tea that
she drops the band.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
So when I watch this video, at first, I was like, Oh,
this actually makes sense, But then I really try to
think about it in a real life scenario, and I
feel like drinking the kool aid is the incorrect term
to use here. When I picture drinking the cool aid,
I picture it like blindly following, and I feel like
that kind of defeats the purpose of career development because
(03:06):
there is a difference between starting a new job and
coming in hot and like all guns are blaze, wanting
to change everything versus just I guess, like slowly inserting yourself,
like figuring out how your workplace does things and then
trying to like come up with ideas. But I feel
like if you're constantly drinking the kool aid, you're kind
of defeating the purpose of actually doing your job because
you're just kind of going with the flow with what
(03:26):
everyone says without even like expressing your ideas or what
you really think, which can also, I guess in a
way destroy your morals.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Yeah, you're exactly right. And so this is actually why
I love this video so much, because there is an
argument for and an argument against, and part of what
she's saying is actually very true. So let's just unpack
this and say, like the argument for drinking the kool aid,
and I agree with you, it's the wrong terminology, but
she's got a point. Essentially, it's like if we're all
on the same page together, the whole team can win.
(03:56):
And so it comes back to like how much do
you know and believe in the company vision and like
what your company's actually trying to do, and how much
are you on board with the plan for that, And
so think give yourself as a leader, you're trying to
run a company. If you've got all these people who
just like are on board with your vision, on board
with your plan, and they're like actually kind of like
disagreeing with you, it's really hard to do anything. So
I think about this thing all the time. Are you
(04:17):
a drain or are you a radiator? So drains other
people that are just like negative about everything exactly for
everything right, and then the radiators of people are like
bringing positivity, They're reflecting back the energy and kind of
bringing that. So keep that in your mind and then
also just to her point around it can get you
promoted faster. That is true. And the reason for that
(04:39):
is the more that you internalize the company's vision, you
know the plan and how you're going to be getting there,
the more you're able to be constantly framing your work
against that. And you sort of need to be repeating
that all the time if you really want to get noticed,
just like a hack to get noticed by senior leaders,
to be recognized as like this person's really delivering. It's
like if you're constantly like, our company is trying to
(05:00):
do this and this is how I'm helping us to
do that. People are just biased humans and they notice
you for that and they're like, this person's really delivering.
So there is a part of that, and just like
bringing that positive energy to the company, being like, we're
all in this together, we're all on the same team.
So that's in favor for what she's saying. And then
I agree with you, like, the opposite is also true
in that if you take that too far, you can
(05:24):
actually be bad at your job. So I'll use the
example of if you work in marketing and you believe
so much, you've drunk so much kool aid, you have
no external perspective anymore of what actual real humans think
of your product or your company, you're not actually good
at marketing anymore. So I think you need to maintain
this healthy skepticism as well, so be on board with
the vision. Otherwise like honestly, why are you even there?
(05:45):
But have skepticism. So you need to know when to say, yes,
what we're doing is right, and you need to be
able to occasionally stand up and say I think what
we're doing is wrong here, and to be able to
clearly articulate why. But when you take it too far
on either side. I've seen people bring down like the
most senior people at Google who just started to become
so negative and so skep to call and be such
(06:06):
naysayers that they just got managed out because you can't
have a company filled with people like that.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Oh that's so interesting. So when she says in the
TikTok at the end that drinking the kool aid is, like,
I guess one of the only ways you can get
a pay rise.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
That I disagree with because I think to your point again,
it's like the terminology of drinking the kool aid. I
think like sip, don't skull In a way, it's like
you need to sort of understand again, what is the
company trying to do? What's the vision? Like, how are
we all trying to do that? What are our values?
It's really hard to get a big collection of people
to do the same thing right. So the way companies
do that is they create vibe and you know, they
(06:42):
get everyone on this shared sense of purpose. If you're
the one person who's like, Noah, not into it, It's
like imagine a sporting team and the coach has like
a play that they want everyone to do and then
one person's like, don't agree with that play, so out
on the field they're like not going to do it.
But then some of the team does, like the whole
team doesn't win kind of thing, right, So it's just
like embracing that mindset. But yeah, just like pick the
(07:02):
things that you're really on board with and then have
some help the skepticism and an external point of view
as well.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Yes, amazing. So this next one has come in via LinkedIn,
and so if this is one for you, so I'm
just gonna listen in. I guess it came from l
and she says, Hey, so love your practical advice and
the podcast. Thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Elle.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
She said that she came across this post on LinkedIn
that was about career development plans and in the post
it said everyone says they want one, but most people
are waiting for someone else to create one for them.
Truth is, you need to own it. So Elle says,
I would be curious on how you view career development
plans and if it's up to the employee to drive this,
(07:45):
where does one begin? Oh I love this.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Question too, me too. No one cares about your career
more than you do. That's honestly a hard truth that
you have. Yeah, I'm pretty.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Sure you care about my career at the same level
that I care about my career.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
So you really wanted to take on this mindset that
you want to be the architect of your career and
not the passenger, right That means like really taking control.
And I first want to ask him, like, with these
career development plans, maybe just to explain what it is.
It's essentially a plan where you kind of say, this
is where I'm at now, this is where I want
to get to, and this is kind of how I'm
going to get there, right, And they come in all
(08:20):
different shapes and forms. But do you have a career
development plan?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
I do have a career development plan, and it's really
hard to kind of stick with it because I feel
like you could have like mentors that are helping you
with your career development plan, but I feel like sometimes
it's quite personal, Like it feels like a diary entry
that I'm getting people to read into, especially if you
have a mental in your workplace and your career development
(08:46):
plan like goes outside of your workplace and you're just
getting these people going, Okay, so let's see how so
I think it's really hard. As you said that you
care about your career more than anyone else, and it's
one of those situations where I always think about my
and I've talked about this on the pod before about
how I'm always like, oh, I wonder what my boss
(09:06):
thinks of this, I wonder want my mental things of this,
And then I'm like, oh, you don't think of me
until we're actually talking about that.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
I love that you said that because same. So my
secret is I never had a plan. I never had
a Creer development plan. It hasn't held me back, but
I will say I think I would have gotten more
help and gotten to where I wanted to go faster
and with less pain if I had put a little
bit of effort into it. But what you said is right.
So your manager doesn't actually care about your personal development plan, right, Yes,
(09:37):
they might care about you as a person, but they
don't care about your plan. I remember my manager used
to ask about once a year, like, hey, can you
like send me through your crew development plan? And I
sort of treated it like a task like oh, sorry,
I haven't done that yet, like I'll get it done.
Then I find out they've got talent reviews where they
all sit around and talk about talent, and the reason
they need create development plans is because they kind of
need to know a few goals that their reports want
(09:58):
so they can help them do that. So it was
really like a checkbox for him in a way. He
doesn't care, never looks at it again. And I was
treating it as you know, a doct that of created
ones and never looked at again. That is the completely
wrong way to think about it. The best career development
plan is one that lives inside your heart and it's
something that you carry around with you and it helps
you make decisions every day. So I like to keep
it super simple. I've actually got a framework for this already,
(10:22):
and so we're gonna put that in the newsletter and
you can sign up for the newsletter and the show.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Yes, but this is.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
All like you need to know. First of all, wait.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Let me write notes.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Yeah, So first of all, I just want you to
know three things. It's fine to not know what you want,
Like you don't have to have this perfect plan. It's
fine to actually say to your manager, I don't really
know what I want. Here's some stuff. Can I actually
get some coaching. So that's the first thing. And it
might be like I might want this role or I
sort of might want to get these skills, but can
you just give me some coaching. That's fine. The second
(10:50):
thing you need to know is they need to see
what you are already doing. You cannot go in with
a career development plan and say here's the plan, like
help me execute that. It's like they need to show
that you are already taking steps towards shaving that. And
then the third thing is don't COMPLI some people like
a hardcore spreadsheet with like time allocations for each fine.
(11:11):
I would just say keep it really simple, like focus
on one thing at a time. So don't be like
I want to move into this role and then I
want to get these five skills, and then I also
want to start coaching people and being mentor just like
pick one thing that you want to do at a time,
and that's how you're going to create progress. So again
we'll link the framework in the show notes, but it's
as simple as this. These are my goals, and I
(11:31):
like to do a short term goal in terms of
something I want to achieve this year, and then a
bit of a longer term view, So three to five years,
here's what I'm doing to help myself reach those goals. Now,
it might be, you know, a course that I'm doing.
It might be, you know, I'm going to do these
five coffee chats with people at work because I want
to get their perspective. And then what I want the
company to do to help me reach my goals. These
(11:52):
are some things that I want from the company.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
So it and how do I answer the question where
do you see yourself in five years?
Speaker 3 (11:58):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (11:59):
The worst question.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
You can answer that by saying I don't know first
of all, which is totally fine, but it does help
to give yourself some time to reflect and like, for example,
like where do you see yourself?
Speaker 2 (12:12):
I don't know. It's so hard.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
A better way to think about it is just like
if you think about you know, someone else that maybe
you look at and you're like, I really kind of
admire their career, and you reverse engineers some of their
skills and experiences that they've had. That's a nice way
to do it. So just like you can think of
anyone and another thing might just be like what are
you into? Like what do you have energy around? What
(12:34):
gets you excited when you just think about your life,
so don't even think about it from a career perspective.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Mine's like living in isolation on a farm.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
It So maybe then for you, it's like you want
to have side hustle, like some kind of financial independence
that you're getting and you're able to work in a
remote freelancy type situation that can be called.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Catch me on my farm.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
I love that for you.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Okay. So so for this last question, we're going to
be doing something a little bit different.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
Yeah, so we asked on our bis my mum and
mere page on Insta, what's the most unhinged thing your
boss has said to you? And we just have to
share some of the answers with you. I almost can't
believe these are real, but I know they are because
they came from you.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Guys are wild. Okay, so I've hit me with the
first one.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Okay. So my new manager said he doesn't believe women
should be in management. Oh yeah, it.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Says a lot about the company, says, look get out girl. Okay,
this one she said, everyone refers to me as the
ugly one and my colleague as the pretty one. Also
asked me to take the tomato out of her sandwich
and put it in the bin next to her feet.
I asked if she was allergic, and she said no,
I just wanted you to do it for me. That
(13:53):
is like devil Wes literally going to say devil Wes Prada.
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Yeah, okay. I was told let the smart people do it,
referring to the men in the business. So there's a
lot of Yeah, a lot of things make me really angry.
One more, just very quickly kind of on that vibe.
My immediate boss, when I announced my pregnancy, asked if
it was planned? People really need to learn that that.
He's completely inappropriate to ask someone Yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Then what do you what do you meant to say?
Speaker 4 (14:20):
I feel like I've.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Maybe even heard that in a workplace as well. Yeah.
I would not answer that, but I would just probably
look at them and give them silence.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Oh my god. This one's similar. It says your boobs
are huge? Are you pregnant? Yeah. One of my co
hosts for Are You Beauty Podcasts, Aaron has just had
her beautiful baby. I didn't say this, but I did
she was pregnant, and I just remember like her walking
into the podcasting and I was like, oh, my god,
your kids are massive.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
I feel like coming.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
That's fine, fine, I know.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
I just asked it was someone's birthday yesterday and I
don't know them that well, and I was like, how
old are you? And then in the way that they
hesitated before they answered, I realized, I think I need
to stop asking people that he was forty six and yeah,
he didn't want to answer.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Oh. I overheard my male nursing manager tell as staff
specialist and it's doctor that now I was married, I
had been married for a month. I would be a
useless staff member because I'll just go off and have babies.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
Now. It's this is oh man. My old manager said
to me, I do not need a pay review pay rise,
as I can use my husband's money to pay for
my bills. I love this, safe to say. I less
than left that job very shortly after. Yes you do?
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Okay, last one yeap when the CEO told his wife
who's my boss? I was hot and then proceeded to
tell me that the fallout was not my fault, but
it was my problem on the audacity. Oh hin, please
just make me so depressed, all right, but thank you
for the entertainment. This was so good.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
We all need help, Okay, so thanks for helping us
clear the biz inbox today. If you've got a work question,
send it our way. As you heard today, we answer
a lot of them and I love it. So you'll
find a link to submit your questions in the show notes.
Tell us your name or you can stay anonymous. It's
totally up to you.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
And if you miss any of our previous episodes, just
scroll back in your feed. We'll also put a bunch
of them in our show notes and we'll be back
here in your inbox next week.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
Bye bye, Mamma.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that
this podcast is recorded on
You're listening to I'm Mom with Mer podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Welcome to biz in Box. I'm murn m.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Oh and I'm so first.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Every week we are answering your burning career questions in
the simplest way possible because we're busy and so are you.
So can you please teach me one thing that you
learned work wise this week?
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Okay, for fifteen years, I've been telling myself I'm going
to learn keyboard shot cuts, and I finally freaking started. Hey,
just doing little what kind of Yeah, just like you
know the classic ones that you're using all the time,
like command VP. Yeah, exactly, But that's the only one
everyone knows, right, So it's like there's like twenty others
that I really saw. There's more, But I got some
really good advice, which has just been fifteen minutes a
(00:55):
week learning tho keyboard short cuts and you actually don't
need that long. That's my thing this week, and I'm
going to share them with you guys on social so
you can all learn them as well.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
So smart, how much time do you think you say
of doing that?
Speaker 3 (01:05):
I actually got the data on this, and someone, of
course you got the data.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
I heard it on a.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Tim Ferrer's podcast. It's insane. It's like twenty hours a
month or something. It's like ment. Also, yes, that's so good.
Years off your life.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Oh my god, I'm yessed.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
And this week we're getting into whether you really need
a career development plan? Unhinge boss comments and a really
fascinating video I found on TikTok that I want to
unpack with you.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
What a good way?
Speaker 3 (01:37):
So someone DMed this video to me and they asked,
is this actually true?
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Drinking the kool aid will make your work life easier
and might even get you a promotion. This is something
that I wish someone had explained to me when I
was in my early career. It's so easy to get
bogged down by how you think things should be. And
trust me, I get it. When I was in my
early career, there were so many times where I was
convinced that my way was the only way, and even
if I was right, it just made me miserable and
(02:03):
probably really annoying to work with. Let's break this down.
Drinking the kool aid here just means buying into the
team's vision, and when you do that, you're not constantly
battling your internal conflict. You're not wasting your energy fighting
battles that you don't need to. So what happens if
you don't drink the kool Aid, Well, you may start
to feel really isolated. You might develop strained relationships with
your managers and co workers, and honestly, who wants that,
(02:25):
Like it'll lead to frustration. You'll be that person pushing
back on ideas, even if they're really good ideas. Ultimately,
you're going to miss out on opportunities and grow stagnant.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
And then she goes on to say that if you
drink the kool Aid, you're going to be happier, more productive,
You'll have this shared sense of purpose, and you'll actually
get promoted faster, which is kind of the tea that
she drops the band.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
So when I watch this video, at first, I was like, Oh,
this actually makes sense, But then I really try to
think about it in a real life scenario, and I
feel like drinking the kool aid is the incorrect term
to use here. When I picture drinking the cool aid,
I picture it like blindly following, and I feel like
that kind of defeats the purpose of career development because
(03:06):
there is a difference between starting a new job and
coming in hot and like all guns are blaze, wanting
to change everything versus just I guess, like slowly inserting yourself,
like figuring out how your workplace does things and then
trying to like come up with ideas. But I feel
like if you're constantly drinking the kool aid, you're kind
of defeating the purpose of actually doing your job because
you're just kind of going with the flow with what
(03:26):
everyone says without even like expressing your ideas or what
you really think, which can also, I guess in a
way destroy your morals.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Yeah, you're exactly right. And so this is actually why
I love this video so much, because there is an
argument for and an argument against, and part of what
she's saying is actually very true. So let's just unpack
this and say, like the argument for drinking the kool aid,
and I agree with you, it's the wrong terminology, but
she's got a point. Essentially, it's like if we're all
on the same page together, the whole team can win.
(03:56):
And so it comes back to like how much do
you know and believe in the company vision and like
what your company's actually trying to do, and how much
are you on board with the plan for that, And
so think give yourself as a leader, you're trying to
run a company. If you've got all these people who
just like are on board with your vision, on board
with your plan, and they're like actually kind of like
disagreeing with you, it's really hard to do anything. So
I think about this thing all the time. Are you
(04:17):
a drain or are you a radiator? So drains other
people that are just like negative about everything exactly for
everything right, and then the radiators of people are like
bringing positivity, They're reflecting back the energy and kind of
bringing that. So keep that in your mind and then
also just to her point around it can get you
promoted faster. That is true. And the reason for that
(04:39):
is the more that you internalize the company's vision, you
know the plan and how you're going to be getting there,
the more you're able to be constantly framing your work
against that. And you sort of need to be repeating
that all the time if you really want to get noticed,
just like a hack to get noticed by senior leaders,
to be recognized as like this person's really delivering. It's
like if you're constantly like, our company is trying to
(05:00):
do this and this is how I'm helping us to
do that. People are just biased humans and they notice
you for that and they're like, this person's really delivering.
So there is a part of that, and just like
bringing that positive energy to the company, being like, we're
all in this together, we're all on the same team.
So that's in favor for what she's saying. And then
I agree with you, like, the opposite is also true
in that if you take that too far, you can
(05:24):
actually be bad at your job. So I'll use the
example of if you work in marketing and you believe
so much, you've drunk so much kool aid, you have
no external perspective anymore of what actual real humans think
of your product or your company, you're not actually good
at marketing anymore. So I think you need to maintain
this healthy skepticism as well, so be on board with
the vision. Otherwise like honestly, why are you even there?
(05:45):
But have skepticism. So you need to know when to say, yes,
what we're doing is right, and you need to be
able to occasionally stand up and say I think what
we're doing is wrong here, and to be able to
clearly articulate why. But when you take it too far
on either side. I've seen people bring down like the
most senior people at Google who just started to become
so negative and so skep to call and be such
(06:06):
naysayers that they just got managed out because you can't
have a company filled with people like that.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Oh that's so interesting. So when she says in the
TikTok at the end that drinking the kool aid is, like,
I guess one of the only ways you can get
a pay rise.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
That I disagree with because I think to your point again,
it's like the terminology of drinking the kool aid. I
think like sip, don't skull In a way, it's like
you need to sort of understand again, what is the
company trying to do? What's the vision? Like, how are
we all trying to do that? What are our values?
It's really hard to get a big collection of people
to do the same thing right. So the way companies
do that is they create vibe and you know, they
(06:42):
get everyone on this shared sense of purpose. If you're
the one person who's like, Noah, not into it, It's
like imagine a sporting team and the coach has like
a play that they want everyone to do and then
one person's like, don't agree with that play, so out
on the field they're like not going to do it.
But then some of the team does, like the whole
team doesn't win kind of thing, right, So it's just
like embracing that mindset. But yeah, just like pick the
(07:02):
things that you're really on board with and then have
some help the skepticism and an external point of view
as well.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Yes, amazing. So this next one has come in via LinkedIn,
and so if this is one for you, so I'm
just gonna listen in. I guess it came from l
and she says, Hey, so love your practical advice and
the podcast. Thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Elle.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
She said that she came across this post on LinkedIn
that was about career development plans and in the post
it said everyone says they want one, but most people
are waiting for someone else to create one for them.
Truth is, you need to own it. So Elle says,
I would be curious on how you view career development
plans and if it's up to the employee to drive this,
(07:45):
where does one begin? Oh I love this.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Question too, me too. No one cares about your career
more than you do. That's honestly a hard truth that
you have. Yeah, I'm pretty.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Sure you care about my career at the same level
that I care about my career.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
So you really wanted to take on this mindset that
you want to be the architect of your career and
not the passenger, right That means like really taking control.
And I first want to ask him, like, with these
career development plans, maybe just to explain what it is.
It's essentially a plan where you kind of say, this
is where I'm at now, this is where I want
to get to, and this is kind of how I'm
going to get there, right, And they come in all
(08:20):
different shapes and forms. But do you have a career
development plan?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
I do have a career development plan, and it's really
hard to kind of stick with it because I feel
like you could have like mentors that are helping you
with your career development plan, but I feel like sometimes
it's quite personal, Like it feels like a diary entry
that I'm getting people to read into, especially if you
have a mental in your workplace and your career development
(08:46):
plan like goes outside of your workplace and you're just
getting these people going, Okay, so let's see how so
I think it's really hard. As you said that you
care about your career more than anyone else, and it's
one of those situations where I always think about my
and I've talked about this on the pod before about
how I'm always like, oh, I wonder what my boss
(09:06):
thinks of this, I wonder want my mental things of this,
And then I'm like, oh, you don't think of me
until we're actually talking about that.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
I love that you said that because same. So my
secret is I never had a plan. I never had
a Creer development plan. It hasn't held me back, but
I will say I think I would have gotten more
help and gotten to where I wanted to go faster
and with less pain if I had put a little
bit of effort into it. But what you said is right.
So your manager doesn't actually care about your personal development plan, right, Yes,
(09:37):
they might care about you as a person, but they
don't care about your plan. I remember my manager used
to ask about once a year, like, hey, can you
like send me through your crew development plan? And I
sort of treated it like a task like oh, sorry,
I haven't done that yet, like I'll get it done.
Then I find out they've got talent reviews where they
all sit around and talk about talent, and the reason
they need create development plans is because they kind of
need to know a few goals that their reports want
(09:58):
so they can help them do that. So it was
really like a checkbox for him in a way. He
doesn't care, never looks at it again. And I was
treating it as you know, a doct that of created
ones and never looked at again. That is the completely
wrong way to think about it. The best career development
plan is one that lives inside your heart and it's
something that you carry around with you and it helps
you make decisions every day. So I like to keep
it super simple. I've actually got a framework for this already,
(10:22):
and so we're gonna put that in the newsletter and
you can sign up for the newsletter and the show.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Yes, but this is.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
All like you need to know. First of all, wait.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Let me write notes.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Yeah, So first of all, I just want you to
know three things. It's fine to not know what you want,
Like you don't have to have this perfect plan. It's
fine to actually say to your manager, I don't really
know what I want. Here's some stuff. Can I actually
get some coaching. So that's the first thing. And it
might be like I might want this role or I
sort of might want to get these skills, but can
you just give me some coaching. That's fine. The second
(10:50):
thing you need to know is they need to see
what you are already doing. You cannot go in with
a career development plan and say here's the plan, like
help me execute that. It's like they need to show
that you are already taking steps towards shaving that. And
then the third thing is don't COMPLI some people like
a hardcore spreadsheet with like time allocations for each fine.
(11:11):
I would just say keep it really simple, like focus
on one thing at a time. So don't be like
I want to move into this role and then I
want to get these five skills, and then I also
want to start coaching people and being mentor just like
pick one thing that you want to do at a time,
and that's how you're going to create progress. So again
we'll link the framework in the show notes, but it's
as simple as this. These are my goals, and I
(11:31):
like to do a short term goal in terms of
something I want to achieve this year, and then a
bit of a longer term view, So three to five years,
here's what I'm doing to help myself reach those goals. Now,
it might be, you know, a course that I'm doing.
It might be, you know, I'm going to do these
five coffee chats with people at work because I want
to get their perspective. And then what I want the
company to do to help me reach my goals. These
(11:52):
are some things that I want from the company.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
So it and how do I answer the question where
do you see yourself in five years?
Speaker 3 (11:58):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (11:59):
The worst question.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
You can answer that by saying I don't know first
of all, which is totally fine, but it does help
to give yourself some time to reflect and like, for example,
like where do you see yourself?
Speaker 2 (12:12):
I don't know. It's so hard.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
A better way to think about it is just like
if you think about you know, someone else that maybe
you look at and you're like, I really kind of
admire their career, and you reverse engineers some of their
skills and experiences that they've had. That's a nice way
to do it. So just like you can think of
anyone and another thing might just be like what are
you into? Like what do you have energy around? What
(12:34):
gets you excited when you just think about your life,
so don't even think about it from a career perspective.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Mine's like living in isolation on a farm.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
It So maybe then for you, it's like you want
to have side hustle, like some kind of financial independence
that you're getting and you're able to work in a
remote freelancy type situation that can be called.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Catch me on my farm.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
I love that for you.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Okay. So so for this last question, we're going to
be doing something a little bit different.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
Yeah, so we asked on our bis my mum and
mere page on Insta, what's the most unhinged thing your
boss has said to you? And we just have to
share some of the answers with you. I almost can't
believe these are real, but I know they are because
they came from you.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Guys are wild. Okay, so I've hit me with the
first one.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Okay. So my new manager said he doesn't believe women
should be in management. Oh yeah, it.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Says a lot about the company, says, look get out girl. Okay,
this one she said, everyone refers to me as the
ugly one and my colleague as the pretty one. Also
asked me to take the tomato out of her sandwich
and put it in the bin next to her feet.
I asked if she was allergic, and she said no,
I just wanted you to do it for me. That
(13:53):
is like devil Wes literally going to say devil Wes Prada.
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Yeah, okay. I was told let the smart people do it,
referring to the men in the business. So there's a
lot of Yeah, a lot of things make me really angry.
One more, just very quickly kind of on that vibe.
My immediate boss, when I announced my pregnancy, asked if
it was planned? People really need to learn that that.
He's completely inappropriate to ask someone Yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Then what do you what do you meant to say?
Speaker 4 (14:20):
I feel like I've.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Maybe even heard that in a workplace as well. Yeah.
I would not answer that, but I would just probably
look at them and give them silence.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Oh my god. This one's similar. It says your boobs
are huge? Are you pregnant? Yeah. One of my co
hosts for Are You Beauty Podcasts, Aaron has just had
her beautiful baby. I didn't say this, but I did
she was pregnant, and I just remember like her walking
into the podcasting and I was like, oh, my god,
your kids are massive.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
I feel like coming.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
That's fine, fine, I know.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
I just asked it was someone's birthday yesterday and I
don't know them that well, and I was like, how
old are you? And then in the way that they
hesitated before they answered, I realized, I think I need
to stop asking people that he was forty six and yeah,
he didn't want to answer.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Oh. I overheard my male nursing manager tell as staff
specialist and it's doctor that now I was married, I
had been married for a month. I would be a
useless staff member because I'll just go off and have babies.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
Now. It's this is oh man. My old manager said
to me, I do not need a pay review pay rise,
as I can use my husband's money to pay for
my bills. I love this, safe to say. I less
than left that job very shortly after. Yes you do?
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Okay, last one yeap when the CEO told his wife
who's my boss? I was hot and then proceeded to
tell me that the fallout was not my fault, but
it was my problem on the audacity. Oh hin, please
just make me so depressed, all right, but thank you
for the entertainment. This was so good.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
We all need help, Okay, so thanks for helping us
clear the biz inbox today. If you've got a work question,
send it our way. As you heard today, we answer
a lot of them and I love it. So you'll
find a link to submit your questions in the show notes.
Tell us your name or you can stay anonymous. It's
totally up to you.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
And if you miss any of our previous episodes, just
scroll back in your feed. We'll also put a bunch
of them in our show notes and we'll be back
here in your inbox next week.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
Bye bye, Mamma.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that
this podcast is recorded on
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