March 31, 2025 • 24 mins
This episode will completely transform how you'll think about managing your time, as we deep dive into the often misunderstood practice of time blocking with productivity expert Deb Ho.
If you’ve ever felt overwhelmed by your to-do list or struggled to focus on deep work; join Em Vernem, Michelle Battersby and Soph Hirst to learn practical solutions that don't require you to become a "productivity robot".
And if you’re time blocking skeptic or have tried and abandoned it before, this episode will give you the clear, precise direction you need to transform your workday. Trust us, you’ll soon understand why you need to be spending more time in your calendar than your inbox!
Check out Deb Ho’s amazing Time Block Planner and other Productivity Resources.
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HOSTS: Michelle Battersby, Soph Hirst and Em Vernem
EXEC PRODUCER: Kimberly Braddish
AUDIO PRODUCER: Leah Porges
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to I'm Mom with mea podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Hello, and welcome to biz Your Work Life Sorted. I'm
m Vernon and today we're diving into something I've personally
struggled with, time blocking. So you know that feeling when
you look at your to do list and it feels
completely overwhelming, or when you're trying to focus on deep
work but keep getting distracted by Slack messages or emails.
(00:34):
I have been there so many times, and I'm actually
supposed to be deep into writing an article right now,
but here I am instead talking to you, So please
don't tell my boss. So all of these chaotic habits
of mine have made me realize that I should probably
give this time blocking thing another shot and find out
if I'm actually doing it properly. Today Missions SOF are
breaking down everything you need to know about time blocking,
(00:57):
what it actually is, and how to do it without
feeling like a productivity robot, and most importantly, how to
make it work for your.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Life, life and schedule.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Plus they are joined by productivity expert and artist Debo,
who completely changed my perspective on how we think about
organizing our time. Trust me, if you've ever felt like
you're drowning in tasks or struggling to find focus time.
This episode is for you, Michelle.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
What's your vibe on time blocking.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
I've heard of it and I felt like maybe it's
something I should be doing, you know. I feel like
maybe it's something we felt like we all need to try,
or like we're missing out on something if we're not
doing it.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Yeah, I'm kind of with you.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Actually, I had heard about it for a long time
because a lot of the engineers at Google did it,
and I was always like, yeah, I'm not a productivity person. Like, honestly,
the word productivity gives me anxiety, Like I hate it.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
I'm actually I'm a really slow operator.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
So I'm that person where someone's standing over your shoulder
and they're like by your computer and they're like he
will just pull it up and do it now, just
like go to the folder and do the thing, and
I'm like, don't watch me. I'm really slow. So like,
I'm not a productivity person. But I did notice this
change that happened where I just did one thing, and
that was I started spending more time in my calendar
(02:10):
than I started spending in my inbox, and there was
just a massive change to how I operated at work,
and really it came down to I started time blocking,
but I will say it took me a few gos
and I still don't think I actually do it right.
I don't even know if there is a right or
wrong way. I guess that's what this episode is about
a little bit. What do other people think? Like you
(02:31):
went out on social and ask people, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
I was curious about this because I would put myself
in the camp of I've tried it and I couldn't
commit to it, like it seemed a bit too hard
to me, or like I needed to spend a lot
of time sitting down and planning things, yeah, and do
that over and over, which is just not something I
can maintain.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
So I asked on my socials if.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
You've tried time blocking, and it's yes, I lived by it,
tried it, couldn't commit, never tried it, don't know what
it is. And the winner here was thirty eight percent
of people said tried it and couldn't commit yeah, and
then live by it was second with twenty six percent,
never tried it, twenty one percent and fifteen percent don't
know what it is.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Okay, So I think this episode will.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
Be yeah, I am that personal the majority, So yeah,
definitely tried it felt like it didn't work me. I
actually tried it several times before I was able to
get it to stick. But I still was thinking that
I'm not doing it right and there's something that I'm missing.
So it's kind of why we wanted to do this
episode and why we wanted to go out and speak
to an expert. So I went out and spoke to
Deb Hoe, and she is an artist and a productivity expert,
(03:37):
which I think sounds like an oxymoron, like how can
you be both those things? Creative and organized? But she
breaks down exactly what time blocking is. And the interesting
part I thought about this interview Michelle that we're going
to play in a second. She actually thinks about time
blocking not just about how it helps you with work,
but how it helps you with your whole life, which
(03:58):
I thought was really interesting. And then we're going to
come back at the end and I'm going to give
my five really practical tips for how I was able
to actually get it to stick for me.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Amazing.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Can't wait.
Speaker 4 (04:20):
So Deb, there's two camps of people when it comes
to time blocking. The people who, like I've heard of it,
but I actually have no idea what it is. And
then the second camp of people who have heard of
it and think they're doing it but maybe don't feel
like they're doing it properly. And I feel like I'm
in that second camp.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
So to just kind of clear.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
Up the first question, what is time blocking and why
should we even be doing it?
Speaker 5 (04:44):
Time blocking is a really simple method where you just
assign tasks to a timeslot during the day. So, for example,
instead of writing your basic to do list like reading, writing,
doing the dishes, you actually assign those tasks to a
specific time, so you would do like nine am is
your reading time, and then ten am is your writing time,
(05:05):
and washing the dishes is at five pm.
Speaker 6 (05:07):
Or something like that.
Speaker 5 (05:08):
So it really is just adding a time slot to
those specific tasks.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
How do you actually decide what tasks you're doing when
you know, is there a best practice we're meant to
be following in terms of where we're putting tasks?
Speaker 5 (05:20):
I think it really comes down to like trial and error,
to be honest, Like, unfortunately a lot of people don't
find time blocking that useful because they're just like, oh,
a whole block of the days just work and that's it.
But generally, I find that it really comes down to
what you do personally. For example, like I can't exercise
at night, so I will always put it in the morning.
(05:41):
And I don't read after like nine am. I only
read in the morning, so I always put it in
the morning as well.
Speaker 6 (05:48):
So it really comes down.
Speaker 5 (05:49):
To like what works with your personal lifestyle. Even if
people say wake up at four am, Like, that's just
not really viable for everyone. So it's something that really
comes down to trial and error. You'll pull a few
things that will be your dream life, but then you'll
realize really quickly that your life gets in the way,
and then you have to like kind of move things
around and test it.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
Okay, So, because this is the kind of trap that
I have been in before, I wanted to try time blocking,
and then I tried it, and then I was like,
it doesn't actually work for me. Then I had this
sort of moment where I stopped and thought about what
are the tasks that I'm doing and when is the
best time of my day to do those tasks.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
So that was a big light bulb moment for me.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
For the listener at home who's never done this before,
and maybe tried it and it didn't work. How do
you actually get started in terms of deciding what are
the better times of day to do certain things.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Is there any kind of tips that you have for that.
Speaker 5 (06:39):
My main tip is to number one, be very forgiving,
because it'll be a process, and I think it really
is based on your energy levels, so you would naturally
do things that are harder at the beginning of the day.
Like for me, cleaning through my personal email is like
very very easy, So I tend to do it at
night when I'm watching TV because I can kind of
(06:59):
like splice it with like low energy activities. But if
something takes a little bit more effort, push it earlier
to the morning. I would also consider like your work
day as well. Like some people can go to the
gym at like eleven am, which is I think crazy
because it's in the middle of work day and you
have like meetings and stuff. But like some people really
can do like an early lunch and do their gym
(07:21):
routine then and then go straight into any.
Speaker 6 (07:24):
Kind of meeting afterwards.
Speaker 5 (07:25):
So I think it really depends on your own temperament
and whether or not this is something that you can handle.
The thing is always just start really really easy and
slot it in, try it for like a couple of
weeks and test it to see how viabod is in
your life. Just keep adding things very slowly. I wouldn't
rush into anything that sounds good.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
I remember.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
The big aha for me was when I realized that
my brain is different in the morning to the evening,
and I can't actually concentrate on deep work in the afternoon.
So where I used to put all my meetings in
the morning and then I'd be kind of left to
work in the afternoon, I completely flipped it and I
started blocking out my mornings for actual work and time
blocking all my meeting.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
In the afternoon.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
And that kind of kept my brain engaging anyway because
I was talking to someone.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
So that was a really big lab on mover for
me in terms of planning out those blocks.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
So deb someone who's just getting started, they have an
open calendar, or maybe they've got a few things that
they're already in that calendar in terms of assigned work
meetings and things like that, can you actually break down
the step by step process someone should go through to
time block their week.
Speaker 5 (08:29):
Generally I would either go digital or paper. I personally
like writing things down, so I would just take a
simple piece of paper, blank piece of paper, or you.
Speaker 6 (08:37):
Can use a diary or anything like that.
Speaker 5 (08:40):
What I would generally do is write major tasks that
you want to get done during the day all the
week as a list. So first start with a regular
to do list, which I think a lot of people have,
and then kind of consider what your priorities are for
the week. So generally I pick three maximum.
Speaker 6 (08:55):
I try to do.
Speaker 5 (08:55):
Two because I don't want to like overwhelm myself, but
it's maximum three. Once you kind of consider that, either
in your calendar or on the paper, you kind of
write down if you're doing the day. You write down
time slots from top to bottom, so like when your
day starts, which some people they want to start from
nine am, so nine am, ten am, eleven am, twelve pm,
(09:16):
one pm, all the way down to whenever you want
to stop your day. And if it's a week thing,
then you would just do Monday to Friday across the top,
and then do like morning, afternoon, night slots going down,
so it's more like a table, and then at that
point you sort of have like almost like a grid
of these time slots that you want to put tasks into.
(09:38):
You just consider how long things will take. So like
washing the dishes would probably take half an hour, so
you can give yourself a half an hour time slot
at like five pm or like after you've eaten, so
eight pm. Then you assign times like writing might take
two hours, so you put that task at like eleven am,
and then you just fill out the time and make
(09:59):
sure you put breaks in between as well, make sure
you like slot in lunch and then have all the
other like things.
Speaker 6 (10:04):
You got to do during the day as well.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Got it.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
So if you kind of step back and you look
at your your full day or your full week, should
every slot of time actually be scheduled?
Speaker 6 (10:14):
I would recommend not to.
Speaker 5 (10:16):
I would just guarantee like certain slots to be put
in because you need time to be kind of flexy.
And then as you move through the week or move
through the day, you realize that like things will change,
like things will pop up, and if everything's like super rigid,
you can't really move anything around, and I think that
causes more stress than what the purpose of it is
(10:36):
to like alleviate anxiety about tasks. So I would keep
as much open as possible, and also give yourself off the.
Speaker 6 (10:43):
Time as well.
Speaker 5 (10:44):
You actually realize when you time block that there's so
much time when you're not like stressing about when to
do things. If you just say you'll do it, there's
actually so much time to do things.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
I feel like it's been a very long time since
I've heard someone say there's so much time to do things.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
I love that. Thank you.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
I already feel more calm talking to you. How about
the traps people get into? So who think they've tried
this and they're like, it didn't actually work for me.
What are some of the things that people actually get wrong.
Speaker 5 (11:10):
The main thing that people get wrong about time blocking
is just getting too stressed about making everything perfect and
creating this really rigid schedule. And I myself am such
a big perfectionist and I want things to go exactly
as I plan them, but obviously that never happens, and
you kind of realize that with age, you're like, you.
Speaker 6 (11:30):
Can't control everything.
Speaker 5 (11:31):
The biggest mistake really is that people don't do something
and then they feel like they're failure off for not
doing it, And I.
Speaker 6 (11:38):
Think that's totally not the case. I think it's a
trial and.
Speaker 5 (11:41):
Error, as I said a bit earlier, and I think
generally people do have to also assess whether or not
the task that they want to do is important to them.
Like two years ago, I tried to put reading in
my time block for the longest time, and I.
Speaker 6 (11:56):
Never did it.
Speaker 5 (11:56):
I'd always be like, I've got other things to do,
it's not important. Then I feel guilty about skipping it.
But then I realized that reading was just not important
for me at that time, and I just let go
of that, and I was like, I'll go back to
it when I have the time to do it. And
now I read like almost every day because I've I
want to do it. Personally, I think people try to
force things that they want to do in the day
(12:17):
when actually it goes against their values or it goes
against their lifestyle. And that's more of a deeper thing
than just like time blocking as a method. It really
is like you have to look within yourself. That sounds
so cheesy, but like there are things that people gravitate
towards because they want to do it, and there's things
that they procrastinate for years and years because they actually
(12:37):
shouldn't be doing it. Like exercising is like a really
good example, like people say I need to go to
the gym, but they never do for me. I don't
go to the gym because I do swimming, I do tennis,
I walk every day and that's the easiest way for
me to exercise.
Speaker 6 (12:52):
And it really is less.
Speaker 5 (12:53):
About the time blocking and more about what you have
the motivation to do in general outside of time blocking.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
That's a really important point.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
I think it's not actually going to work to get
you to do something by just putting it in your
calendar and having a reminder set up, So it's really
about time blocking is actually stopping and thinking and deciding
what do I want to do on my day, allocating
a realistic amount of time to do those things, and
then trying to reduce some of the friction. So one
thing I think is really important for people to think
about when they're doing their time block planning is reducing
(13:25):
the context switching time. How do you actually order and
group some of your tasks together to remove some friction
and deb can you tell us what context switching is?
Speaker 5 (13:34):
Context switching really is just moving from a different task
to another that is so significantly different it takes your brain.
Speaker 6 (13:42):
Like I think I read somewhere.
Speaker 5 (13:44):
I'm not sure if it's accurate, but about twenty three
minutes of your time to really emotionally move from one
task to the other. For me, once I figured that out,
or like when someone told me that, that really blew
my mind because you kind of waste that time easing
into the next task. So generally, it's best to group
similar tasks together. So you want to have all your
meanings kind of in the morning or in the afternoon,
(14:05):
so that you have focused time in writing or like
doing emails all in one go. Generally, like emails and
admin is like one kind of group of tasks, and
then like writing all like creative work is like one
type of task as well, So you want to group
those altogether so your energy levels are kind of similar
for that type of task. Personally, I find it really
(14:27):
important to smush everything together to make sure that everything
is kind of flowing with each other, and then I
have a break and then I move on to a
different type of task.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
For the people listening, this is it right, This is why,
because you know, you might think I can plan some
stuff in a calendar that's not really going to change
my life. But the point is that because if you
don't plan things, you're actually wasting so much time as
you switch between different projects and context and tasks. And
if you are able to do a little bit of
forward planning, you can actually reduce that context switching time
(14:57):
and you can get a lot of time back in
your day and also just helps your brain work better.
A lot of people listening work in a sort of
office corporate environment, and you know, say you're working on
three different projects. I've seen a lot of leaders try
to have specific days for different projects, and so your
head's just really in this one project in that day,
and then as much as possible you can try and
work on the other project and book the meetings around
(15:17):
for that next day as well.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
One trap that a lot of us getting.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
To is that if you work in an office, your
time's not necessarily your own. There's people putting meetings in,
there's people hanging you on Slack and they're like, can
you do this thing? Do you have any any tips
for how people can protect their blocks of time that
they've actually scheduled.
Speaker 5 (15:35):
It really is like setting probably a no meeting Friday, which.
Speaker 6 (15:39):
We do at work, which is pretty.
Speaker 5 (15:40):
Good, and everyone really honors that and we kind of
make sure everything is like in my Thursday, I think
setting a time during the week or even like an afternoon.
A lot of my workmates they put in that do
not schedule time period, which like really cannot budge unless
it's like so important, and I think everyone really respects that.
I think it's really like having conversations with the people
(16:02):
around you and also having like more understanding across the
whole team that the afternoon or a certain time of
date is protected for, just like quiet time.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
The other thing is just making sure you're putting in
your certain end times in your calendar, so like at
this time I'm commuting, I don't take calls or respond
to messages, and then also including some of your boundaries
in your signature as well.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
I know a lot of people will say.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
You know, I only check emails twice a day, and
they'll even block those in their calendar that says, you know,
this is the time I'm checking emails and responding to
slack messages. These times do not disturb. Yeah, it's about
having boundaries and trying to be consistent, but then having
a little bit of flexibility as well.
Speaker 5 (16:38):
Yeah, because there'll be times when like things are like
have to be moved around, and it'll be good like
to have that flexibility. But in general, I think, like
across the whole team, it's generally very like much agreed
that there are certain times that like cannot be touched.
Having that freedom in general, like across the whole workplace,
(16:59):
just makes people want to be flexible when the time
requires it.
Speaker 4 (17:13):
So I will just say everyone's jobs are different, right,
and we are not saying that time blocking is going
to work for everyone, And a lot of people have
the type of job where their day is just not
their own. If you don't plan your day, other people's
priorities will plan your day for you. So it's just
about getting on the front foot with your time, which
is so precious. So if you can just do a
little bit of planning, you can get on the front foot.
(17:35):
And it's actually I've found very anxiety reducing to know
that you're getting through things. I'll share some tips in
a minute, but I've actually found the whole process. It
feels like more work, but it actually can if you
stick with it, reduce your anxiety about time and work.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
I think what I kind of like about this is
I don't think i'm the kind of person that will
ever actually time block, but I like what it stands for.
I think sprinkling a bit the foundations of time blocking
into how you do your job if you're not the
kind of person who's going to time block is a
good way to approach just being focused and intentioned about
(18:15):
your day.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
Totally, because I think for a lot of us the
idea of time blocking every minute of your day just
sounds awful, Like when is the time for impromptu conversations
and having fun things like that?
Speaker 1 (18:24):
So yeah, yeah, definitely with you on that.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
One thing I loved when you were talking was around
fitting things into your lifestyle, and I think you touched
John like when is the best time of.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Day to do certain tasks?
Speaker 3 (18:37):
And I think if you're maybe more in my camp,
which might be the light touch time blocking camp. Two
questions that I think could be good for people to
ask themselves when working out, like when does your brain
work best? Is asking yourself when do you procrastinate the hardest?
Like when do tasks feel hard? And that really shouldn't
(18:57):
be the time of day that you're trying to do
deep work or really get into the weeds of certain things.
And then when do things feel effortless, and that should
really be a clue for your prime time. Like I
know I'm a morning person because things just feel easier
for me. I know, my brain completely bombs out at
three pm, like I'm done, my day's done.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
The same, oh my god.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
Same. But some people that's when they're picking up My
boss at Google, that's exactly when his primetime was kind
of thing. Yeah, yeah, that's actually my first tip. So
know what time of day works best for you, and
also days of the week as well. So that's a
really big thing, like know when your deep work is
best and make sure you're blocking that. So I actually
connected this idea of know what time of day is
(19:43):
where you focus best. I've connected that to an idea
that you shared in our productivity episode, and it's actually
I don't always know the exact task that I'm going
to be doing, but I have a focus block as
much as possible. I try to have focus blocks in
the morning, and then I will sit there and ask
myself what's making me feel most uncomfortable today, and that
will be the thing that I actually go and then
(20:05):
do in that time. Also days of the week, if
you are going into the office on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday.
For example, I'm working from home Monday Friday. You're going
to be doing different things in the office versus at home,
so you want to prioritize a lot more in person
time and meetings and deep work is probably going to
be more on the Monday and Friday.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
The second thing that really changed it for me was this.
If someone asked you to do something, like someone says, hey,
can you present in the team meeting next week, instead
of just adding it to a to do list, I
would instantly open up my calendar and say, I think
that's going to take me like three forty five minute
blocks to do, and I would just instantly block the
time up until that presentation next week, and then I
(20:45):
would dump any kind of initial thoughts that I had
into the first calendar block. It just reduced the anxiety
for me because then I know if I just stick
to these blocks, I know I'm going to get it done.
Once you feel the positive feelings of like, oh hey,
that actually works, it helps you stick with the time blocking.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
You're selling it to me, I love it. These are
three little, really quick ones. You're gonna hate this one.
You do need a block to plan your blocks.
Speaker 4 (21:10):
So like I do have a little block on a
Friday where I actually try to plan out the blocks
for the wak ahead. Honestly, sometimes I skip it. I'm like,
I'm having a margarita and I'm not doing that, But
then I kind of, yeah, I do have to do
it the next week. So yeah, if you are going
to get this to work for it you, it does
help if you actually have some planning time.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
My favorite one out of all.
Speaker 4 (21:30):
Of the tips is my task pebbles block. So this
is just where I have two of them a week,
and I just have a calendar block that says task pebbles,
and as things come up throughout the week, those little
things that you don't have time for, I just drop
them into the description and save it and then when
I've got time, I'll jump in. Sometimes if I've got
spare time in between meetings, I'll jump in and pull
a task pebble, or other times I'll just make sure
(21:51):
I'm smashing those out all in one go. Such a
good tip, and then the last point is just to
trust the process a little bit. So it did take
me quite a few gos. It actually so helps sometimes
to have an end point to something too, so like
you can maybe work on for two or three hours,
but it's not actually healthy for your brain, So be
like I'm going to do forty five minutes on that
tuk and then I'm going to stop. That sense of
(22:12):
progress that you get from being like okay, that is
now complete, and I can go and do something else,
or I can.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Have a break. It just makes you feel pretty good.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
You're kind of like setting yourself up for failure if
you start and you're time blocking and popping things in
that actually aren't really a priority to you, or aren't
things that you truly care about and want to do,
like Deb's example of reading and then not doing exactly Okay,
So how someone could start this tomorrow? They need to
take away from your book and plan to plan, and
(22:44):
do that at a time when you feel most motivated.
So for me, it would probably be a Monday morning.
And then I think it's best for people to start
broad like maybe you have your deep work zone, maybe
you've got a shallow work zone which is like your
task pebbles. Maybe you've got a personal zone, and that's
just how you begin, and once you nail that can
(23:05):
start to get more granular, but use those three buckets
to begin with as your to do lists. Stop putting
you to do list in the notes section of your
phone or on a sticky note on your laptop, and
get them into those calendar invites.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
Get it into your calendar and get it into your calendar.
Make it sound so easy, exactly, Yes, love it done.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
So Dare hit us with some hard facts, especially when
she said there's actually so much time to do things
when you're not stressing about when to do them. As
someone who's attempted time blocking multiple times and failed, hearing
that was honestly revolutionary to me. If you're feeling inspired
to give time blocking a try, head to our bus
newsletter this week, We've created a super simple template to
(23:53):
help get you started, and don't forget to follow us
on Instagram at biz by Mama Mia, where we'll be
sharing some practical tips throughout the entire week. Remember it's
not about being perfect, it's about finding what works for you.
I'll catch you in Thursday's biz Inbox episode, where we'll
be answering all of your career questions.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
Bye.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on
You're listening to I'm Mom with mea podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Hello, and welcome to biz Your Work Life Sorted. I'm
m Vernon and today we're diving into something I've personally
struggled with, time blocking. So you know that feeling when
you look at your to do list and it feels
completely overwhelming, or when you're trying to focus on deep
work but keep getting distracted by Slack messages or emails.
(00:34):
I have been there so many times, and I'm actually
supposed to be deep into writing an article right now,
but here I am instead talking to you, So please
don't tell my boss. So all of these chaotic habits
of mine have made me realize that I should probably
give this time blocking thing another shot and find out
if I'm actually doing it properly. Today Missions SOF are
breaking down everything you need to know about time blocking,
(00:57):
what it actually is, and how to do it without
feeling like a productivity robot, and most importantly, how to
make it work for your.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Life, life and schedule.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Plus they are joined by productivity expert and artist Debo,
who completely changed my perspective on how we think about
organizing our time. Trust me, if you've ever felt like
you're drowning in tasks or struggling to find focus time.
This episode is for you, Michelle.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
What's your vibe on time blocking.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
I've heard of it and I felt like maybe it's
something I should be doing, you know. I feel like
maybe it's something we felt like we all need to try,
or like we're missing out on something if we're not
doing it.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Yeah, I'm kind of with you.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Actually, I had heard about it for a long time
because a lot of the engineers at Google did it,
and I was always like, yeah, I'm not a productivity person. Like, honestly,
the word productivity gives me anxiety, Like I hate it.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
I'm actually I'm a really slow operator.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
So I'm that person where someone's standing over your shoulder
and they're like by your computer and they're like he
will just pull it up and do it now, just
like go to the folder and do the thing, and
I'm like, don't watch me. I'm really slow. So like,
I'm not a productivity person. But I did notice this
change that happened where I just did one thing, and
that was I started spending more time in my calendar
(02:10):
than I started spending in my inbox, and there was
just a massive change to how I operated at work,
and really it came down to I started time blocking,
but I will say it took me a few gos
and I still don't think I actually do it right.
I don't even know if there is a right or
wrong way. I guess that's what this episode is about
a little bit. What do other people think? Like you
(02:31):
went out on social and ask people, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
I was curious about this because I would put myself
in the camp of I've tried it and I couldn't
commit to it, like it seemed a bit too hard
to me, or like I needed to spend a lot
of time sitting down and planning things, yeah, and do
that over and over, which is just not something I
can maintain.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
So I asked on my socials if.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
You've tried time blocking, and it's yes, I lived by it,
tried it, couldn't commit, never tried it, don't know what
it is. And the winner here was thirty eight percent
of people said tried it and couldn't commit yeah, and
then live by it was second with twenty six percent,
never tried it, twenty one percent and fifteen percent don't
know what it is.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Okay, So I think this episode will.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
Be yeah, I am that personal the majority, So yeah,
definitely tried it felt like it didn't work me. I
actually tried it several times before I was able to
get it to stick. But I still was thinking that
I'm not doing it right and there's something that I'm missing.
So it's kind of why we wanted to do this
episode and why we wanted to go out and speak
to an expert. So I went out and spoke to
Deb Hoe, and she is an artist and a productivity expert,
(03:37):
which I think sounds like an oxymoron, like how can
you be both those things? Creative and organized? But she
breaks down exactly what time blocking is. And the interesting
part I thought about this interview Michelle that we're going
to play in a second. She actually thinks about time
blocking not just about how it helps you with work,
but how it helps you with your whole life, which
(03:58):
I thought was really interesting. And then we're going to
come back at the end and I'm going to give
my five really practical tips for how I was able
to actually get it to stick for me.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Amazing.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Can't wait.
Speaker 4 (04:20):
So Deb, there's two camps of people when it comes
to time blocking. The people who, like I've heard of it,
but I actually have no idea what it is. And
then the second camp of people who have heard of
it and think they're doing it but maybe don't feel
like they're doing it properly. And I feel like I'm
in that second camp.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
So to just kind of clear.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
Up the first question, what is time blocking and why
should we even be doing it?
Speaker 5 (04:44):
Time blocking is a really simple method where you just
assign tasks to a timeslot during the day. So, for example,
instead of writing your basic to do list like reading, writing,
doing the dishes, you actually assign those tasks to a
specific time, so you would do like nine am is
your reading time, and then ten am is your writing time,
(05:05):
and washing the dishes is at five pm.
Speaker 6 (05:07):
Or something like that.
Speaker 5 (05:08):
So it really is just adding a time slot to
those specific tasks.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
How do you actually decide what tasks you're doing when
you know, is there a best practice we're meant to
be following in terms of where we're putting tasks?
Speaker 5 (05:20):
I think it really comes down to like trial and error,
to be honest, Like, unfortunately a lot of people don't
find time blocking that useful because they're just like, oh,
a whole block of the days just work and that's it.
But generally, I find that it really comes down to
what you do personally. For example, like I can't exercise
at night, so I will always put it in the morning.
(05:41):
And I don't read after like nine am. I only
read in the morning, so I always put it in
the morning as well.
Speaker 6 (05:48):
So it really comes down.
Speaker 5 (05:49):
To like what works with your personal lifestyle. Even if
people say wake up at four am, Like, that's just
not really viable for everyone. So it's something that really
comes down to trial and error. You'll pull a few
things that will be your dream life, but then you'll
realize really quickly that your life gets in the way,
and then you have to like kind of move things
around and test it.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
Okay, So, because this is the kind of trap that
I have been in before, I wanted to try time blocking,
and then I tried it, and then I was like,
it doesn't actually work for me. Then I had this
sort of moment where I stopped and thought about what
are the tasks that I'm doing and when is the
best time of my day to do those tasks.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
So that was a big light bulb moment for me.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
For the listener at home who's never done this before,
and maybe tried it and it didn't work. How do
you actually get started in terms of deciding what are
the better times of day to do certain things.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Is there any kind of tips that you have for that.
Speaker 5 (06:39):
My main tip is to number one, be very forgiving,
because it'll be a process, and I think it really
is based on your energy levels, so you would naturally
do things that are harder at the beginning of the day.
Like for me, cleaning through my personal email is like
very very easy, So I tend to do it at
night when I'm watching TV because I can kind of
(06:59):
like splice it with like low energy activities. But if
something takes a little bit more effort, push it earlier
to the morning. I would also consider like your work
day as well. Like some people can go to the
gym at like eleven am, which is I think crazy
because it's in the middle of work day and you
have like meetings and stuff. But like some people really
can do like an early lunch and do their gym
(07:21):
routine then and then go straight into any.
Speaker 6 (07:24):
Kind of meeting afterwards.
Speaker 5 (07:25):
So I think it really depends on your own temperament
and whether or not this is something that you can handle.
The thing is always just start really really easy and
slot it in, try it for like a couple of
weeks and test it to see how viabod is in
your life. Just keep adding things very slowly. I wouldn't
rush into anything that sounds good.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
I remember.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
The big aha for me was when I realized that
my brain is different in the morning to the evening,
and I can't actually concentrate on deep work in the afternoon.
So where I used to put all my meetings in
the morning and then I'd be kind of left to
work in the afternoon, I completely flipped it and I
started blocking out my mornings for actual work and time
blocking all my meeting.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
In the afternoon.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
And that kind of kept my brain engaging anyway because
I was talking to someone.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
So that was a really big lab on mover for
me in terms of planning out those blocks.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
So deb someone who's just getting started, they have an
open calendar, or maybe they've got a few things that
they're already in that calendar in terms of assigned work
meetings and things like that, can you actually break down
the step by step process someone should go through to
time block their week.
Speaker 5 (08:29):
Generally I would either go digital or paper. I personally
like writing things down, so I would just take a
simple piece of paper, blank piece of paper, or you.
Speaker 6 (08:37):
Can use a diary or anything like that.
Speaker 5 (08:40):
What I would generally do is write major tasks that
you want to get done during the day all the
week as a list. So first start with a regular
to do list, which I think a lot of people have,
and then kind of consider what your priorities are for
the week. So generally I pick three maximum.
Speaker 6 (08:55):
I try to do.
Speaker 5 (08:55):
Two because I don't want to like overwhelm myself, but
it's maximum three. Once you kind of consider that, either
in your calendar or on the paper, you kind of
write down if you're doing the day. You write down
time slots from top to bottom, so like when your
day starts, which some people they want to start from
nine am, so nine am, ten am, eleven am, twelve pm,
(09:16):
one pm, all the way down to whenever you want
to stop your day. And if it's a week thing,
then you would just do Monday to Friday across the top,
and then do like morning, afternoon, night slots going down,
so it's more like a table, and then at that
point you sort of have like almost like a grid
of these time slots that you want to put tasks into.
(09:38):
You just consider how long things will take. So like
washing the dishes would probably take half an hour, so
you can give yourself a half an hour time slot
at like five pm or like after you've eaten, so
eight pm. Then you assign times like writing might take
two hours, so you put that task at like eleven am,
and then you just fill out the time and make
(09:59):
sure you put breaks in between as well, make sure
you like slot in lunch and then have all the
other like things.
Speaker 6 (10:04):
You got to do during the day as well.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Got it.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
So if you kind of step back and you look
at your your full day or your full week, should
every slot of time actually be scheduled?
Speaker 6 (10:14):
I would recommend not to.
Speaker 5 (10:16):
I would just guarantee like certain slots to be put
in because you need time to be kind of flexy.
And then as you move through the week or move
through the day, you realize that like things will change,
like things will pop up, and if everything's like super rigid,
you can't really move anything around, and I think that
causes more stress than what the purpose of it is
(10:36):
to like alleviate anxiety about tasks. So I would keep
as much open as possible, and also give yourself off the.
Speaker 6 (10:43):
Time as well.
Speaker 5 (10:44):
You actually realize when you time block that there's so
much time when you're not like stressing about when to
do things. If you just say you'll do it, there's
actually so much time to do things.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
I feel like it's been a very long time since
I've heard someone say there's so much time to do things.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
I love that. Thank you.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
I already feel more calm talking to you. How about
the traps people get into? So who think they've tried
this and they're like, it didn't actually work for me.
What are some of the things that people actually get wrong.
Speaker 5 (11:10):
The main thing that people get wrong about time blocking
is just getting too stressed about making everything perfect and
creating this really rigid schedule. And I myself am such
a big perfectionist and I want things to go exactly
as I plan them, but obviously that never happens, and
you kind of realize that with age, you're like, you.
Speaker 6 (11:30):
Can't control everything.
Speaker 5 (11:31):
The biggest mistake really is that people don't do something
and then they feel like they're failure off for not
doing it, And I.
Speaker 6 (11:38):
Think that's totally not the case. I think it's a
trial and.
Speaker 5 (11:41):
Error, as I said a bit earlier, and I think
generally people do have to also assess whether or not
the task that they want to do is important to them.
Like two years ago, I tried to put reading in
my time block for the longest time, and I.
Speaker 6 (11:56):
Never did it.
Speaker 5 (11:56):
I'd always be like, I've got other things to do,
it's not important. Then I feel guilty about skipping it.
But then I realized that reading was just not important
for me at that time, and I just let go
of that, and I was like, I'll go back to
it when I have the time to do it. And
now I read like almost every day because I've I
want to do it. Personally, I think people try to
force things that they want to do in the day
(12:17):
when actually it goes against their values or it goes
against their lifestyle. And that's more of a deeper thing
than just like time blocking as a method. It really
is like you have to look within yourself. That sounds
so cheesy, but like there are things that people gravitate
towards because they want to do it, and there's things
that they procrastinate for years and years because they actually
(12:37):
shouldn't be doing it. Like exercising is like a really
good example, like people say I need to go to
the gym, but they never do for me. I don't
go to the gym because I do swimming, I do tennis,
I walk every day and that's the easiest way for
me to exercise.
Speaker 6 (12:52):
And it really is less.
Speaker 5 (12:53):
About the time blocking and more about what you have
the motivation to do in general outside of time blocking.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
That's a really important point.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
I think it's not actually going to work to get
you to do something by just putting it in your
calendar and having a reminder set up, So it's really
about time blocking is actually stopping and thinking and deciding
what do I want to do on my day, allocating
a realistic amount of time to do those things, and
then trying to reduce some of the friction. So one
thing I think is really important for people to think
about when they're doing their time block planning is reducing
(13:25):
the context switching time. How do you actually order and
group some of your tasks together to remove some friction
and deb can you tell us what context switching is?
Speaker 5 (13:34):
Context switching really is just moving from a different task
to another that is so significantly different it takes your brain.
Speaker 6 (13:42):
Like I think I read somewhere.
Speaker 5 (13:44):
I'm not sure if it's accurate, but about twenty three
minutes of your time to really emotionally move from one
task to the other. For me, once I figured that out,
or like when someone told me that, that really blew
my mind because you kind of waste that time easing
into the next task. So generally, it's best to group
similar tasks together. So you want to have all your
meanings kind of in the morning or in the afternoon,
(14:05):
so that you have focused time in writing or like
doing emails all in one go. Generally, like emails and
admin is like one kind of group of tasks, and
then like writing all like creative work is like one
type of task as well, So you want to group
those altogether so your energy levels are kind of similar
for that type of task. Personally, I find it really
(14:27):
important to smush everything together to make sure that everything
is kind of flowing with each other, and then I
have a break and then I move on to a
different type of task.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
For the people listening, this is it right, This is why,
because you know, you might think I can plan some
stuff in a calendar that's not really going to change
my life. But the point is that because if you
don't plan things, you're actually wasting so much time as
you switch between different projects and context and tasks. And
if you are able to do a little bit of
forward planning, you can actually reduce that context switching time
(14:57):
and you can get a lot of time back in
your day and also just helps your brain work better.
A lot of people listening work in a sort of
office corporate environment, and you know, say you're working on
three different projects. I've seen a lot of leaders try
to have specific days for different projects, and so your
head's just really in this one project in that day,
and then as much as possible you can try and
work on the other project and book the meetings around
(15:17):
for that next day as well.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
One trap that a lot of us getting.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
To is that if you work in an office, your
time's not necessarily your own. There's people putting meetings in,
there's people hanging you on Slack and they're like, can
you do this thing? Do you have any any tips
for how people can protect their blocks of time that
they've actually scheduled.
Speaker 5 (15:35):
It really is like setting probably a no meeting Friday, which.
Speaker 6 (15:39):
We do at work, which is pretty.
Speaker 5 (15:40):
Good, and everyone really honors that and we kind of
make sure everything is like in my Thursday, I think
setting a time during the week or even like an afternoon.
A lot of my workmates they put in that do
not schedule time period, which like really cannot budge unless
it's like so important, and I think everyone really respects that.
I think it's really like having conversations with the people
(16:02):
around you and also having like more understanding across the
whole team that the afternoon or a certain time of
date is protected for, just like quiet time.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
The other thing is just making sure you're putting in
your certain end times in your calendar, so like at
this time I'm commuting, I don't take calls or respond
to messages, and then also including some of your boundaries
in your signature as well.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
I know a lot of people will say.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
You know, I only check emails twice a day, and
they'll even block those in their calendar that says, you know,
this is the time I'm checking emails and responding to
slack messages. These times do not disturb. Yeah, it's about
having boundaries and trying to be consistent, but then having
a little bit of flexibility as well.
Speaker 5 (16:38):
Yeah, because there'll be times when like things are like
have to be moved around, and it'll be good like
to have that flexibility. But in general, I think, like
across the whole team, it's generally very like much agreed
that there are certain times that like cannot be touched.
Having that freedom in general, like across the whole workplace,
(16:59):
just makes people want to be flexible when the time
requires it.
Speaker 4 (17:13):
So I will just say everyone's jobs are different, right,
and we are not saying that time blocking is going
to work for everyone, And a lot of people have
the type of job where their day is just not
their own. If you don't plan your day, other people's
priorities will plan your day for you. So it's just
about getting on the front foot with your time, which
is so precious. So if you can just do a
little bit of planning, you can get on the front foot.
(17:35):
And it's actually I've found very anxiety reducing to know
that you're getting through things. I'll share some tips in
a minute, but I've actually found the whole process. It
feels like more work, but it actually can if you
stick with it, reduce your anxiety about time and work.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
I think what I kind of like about this is
I don't think i'm the kind of person that will
ever actually time block, but I like what it stands for.
I think sprinkling a bit the foundations of time blocking
into how you do your job if you're not the
kind of person who's going to time block is a
good way to approach just being focused and intentioned about
(18:15):
your day.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
Totally, because I think for a lot of us the
idea of time blocking every minute of your day just
sounds awful, Like when is the time for impromptu conversations
and having fun things like that?
Speaker 1 (18:24):
So yeah, yeah, definitely with you on that.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
One thing I loved when you were talking was around
fitting things into your lifestyle, and I think you touched
John like when is the best time of.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Day to do certain tasks?
Speaker 3 (18:37):
And I think if you're maybe more in my camp,
which might be the light touch time blocking camp. Two
questions that I think could be good for people to
ask themselves when working out, like when does your brain
work best? Is asking yourself when do you procrastinate the hardest?
Like when do tasks feel hard? And that really shouldn't
(18:57):
be the time of day that you're trying to do
deep work or really get into the weeds of certain things.
And then when do things feel effortless, and that should
really be a clue for your prime time. Like I
know I'm a morning person because things just feel easier
for me. I know, my brain completely bombs out at
three pm, like I'm done, my day's done.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
The same, oh my god.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
Same. But some people that's when they're picking up My
boss at Google, that's exactly when his primetime was kind
of thing. Yeah, yeah, that's actually my first tip. So
know what time of day works best for you, and
also days of the week as well. So that's a
really big thing, like know when your deep work is
best and make sure you're blocking that. So I actually
connected this idea of know what time of day is
(19:43):
where you focus best. I've connected that to an idea
that you shared in our productivity episode, and it's actually
I don't always know the exact task that I'm going
to be doing, but I have a focus block as
much as possible. I try to have focus blocks in
the morning, and then I will sit there and ask
myself what's making me feel most uncomfortable today, and that
will be the thing that I actually go and then
(20:05):
do in that time. Also days of the week, if
you are going into the office on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday.
For example, I'm working from home Monday Friday. You're going
to be doing different things in the office versus at home,
so you want to prioritize a lot more in person
time and meetings and deep work is probably going to
be more on the Monday and Friday.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
The second thing that really changed it for me was this.
If someone asked you to do something, like someone says, hey,
can you present in the team meeting next week, instead
of just adding it to a to do list, I
would instantly open up my calendar and say, I think
that's going to take me like three forty five minute
blocks to do, and I would just instantly block the
time up until that presentation next week, and then I
(20:45):
would dump any kind of initial thoughts that I had
into the first calendar block. It just reduced the anxiety
for me because then I know if I just stick
to these blocks, I know I'm going to get it done.
Once you feel the positive feelings of like, oh hey,
that actually works, it helps you stick with the time blocking.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
You're selling it to me, I love it. These are
three little, really quick ones. You're gonna hate this one.
You do need a block to plan your blocks.
Speaker 4 (21:10):
So like I do have a little block on a
Friday where I actually try to plan out the blocks
for the wak ahead. Honestly, sometimes I skip it. I'm like,
I'm having a margarita and I'm not doing that, But
then I kind of, yeah, I do have to do
it the next week. So yeah, if you are going
to get this to work for it you, it does
help if you actually have some planning time.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
My favorite one out of all.
Speaker 4 (21:30):
Of the tips is my task pebbles block. So this
is just where I have two of them a week,
and I just have a calendar block that says task pebbles,
and as things come up throughout the week, those little
things that you don't have time for, I just drop
them into the description and save it and then when
I've got time, I'll jump in. Sometimes if I've got
spare time in between meetings, I'll jump in and pull
a task pebble, or other times I'll just make sure
(21:51):
I'm smashing those out all in one go. Such a
good tip, and then the last point is just to
trust the process a little bit. So it did take
me quite a few gos. It actually so helps sometimes
to have an end point to something too, so like
you can maybe work on for two or three hours,
but it's not actually healthy for your brain, So be
like I'm going to do forty five minutes on that
tuk and then I'm going to stop. That sense of
(22:12):
progress that you get from being like okay, that is
now complete, and I can go and do something else,
or I can.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Have a break. It just makes you feel pretty good.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
You're kind of like setting yourself up for failure if
you start and you're time blocking and popping things in
that actually aren't really a priority to you, or aren't
things that you truly care about and want to do,
like Deb's example of reading and then not doing exactly Okay,
So how someone could start this tomorrow? They need to
take away from your book and plan to plan, and
(22:44):
do that at a time when you feel most motivated.
So for me, it would probably be a Monday morning.
And then I think it's best for people to start
broad like maybe you have your deep work zone, maybe
you've got a shallow work zone which is like your
task pebbles. Maybe you've got a personal zone, and that's
just how you begin, and once you nail that can
(23:05):
start to get more granular, but use those three buckets
to begin with as your to do lists. Stop putting
you to do list in the notes section of your
phone or on a sticky note on your laptop, and
get them into those calendar invites.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
Get it into your calendar and get it into your calendar.
Make it sound so easy, exactly, Yes, love it done.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
So Dare hit us with some hard facts, especially when
she said there's actually so much time to do things
when you're not stressing about when to do them. As
someone who's attempted time blocking multiple times and failed, hearing
that was honestly revolutionary to me. If you're feeling inspired
to give time blocking a try, head to our bus
newsletter this week, We've created a super simple template to
(23:53):
help get you started, and don't forget to follow us
on Instagram at biz by Mama Mia, where we'll be
sharing some practical tips throughout the entire week. Remember it's
not about being perfect, it's about finding what works for you.
I'll catch you in Thursday's biz Inbox episode, where we'll
be answering all of your career questions.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
Bye.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on
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