June 6, 2025 • 42 mins
The daughter of a famous woman has exposed the reality of caring for someone with dementia in her new book. It’s honest, raw, confronting… but how much of the story is her’s to tell?
And do we want a ‘big life’, or are we okay with something smaller? Jessie, Holly and Em Vernem discuss, but one of us is lying about our answer.
Also, our recommendations for your mouth and ears including a podcast which might make you teary, the best veggie side dish recipe, and a stay-put lipstick that Em swears by.
Plus, Em has a bone to pick with tunnels, Jessie is entering terrible two territory, and Holly’s life-changing appliance upgrade: it’s our Bests & Worsts of the week.
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What To Listen To Next:
- Listen to our latest episode: "We're Having A Baby #SPONCON"
- Listen: Khloe Kardashian And A Cheating Scandal
- Listen: The Lick Ick & The Patron Saint of Betrayed Women
- Listen: We Need To Debrief On 'And Just Like That' Season Three, Ep One
- Listen: Harry, Brooklyn And The Epidemic of Family Estrangement
Check out the No Filter Gracie otto interview with Kate Langbroek here.
Check out the MID Caroline Baum interview with Holly Wainwright here.
Watch Mamamia Out Loud:
What to read:
- Caring for a parent with dementia? Here's what an expert wants you to know.
- 'While my parents were suffering from dementia, my brother did something unthinkable.'
- 'Every single product I used on my face for the Mamamia Out Loud Live Tour.'
- From a no-bake dessert to a tangy salad: The Mamamia team share their go-to recipes.
- 'I'm a mum of 3. Here are 4 weeknight dinner hacks... that actually work.'
Recommendations:
Em wants you to try the Sephora Collection New Cream Lip Stain
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on the amount of times
I've landed up at the airport but nowhere to go.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
No, it's bad when you see a plane. This is
not the destiny. Someone fix this.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
I don't know if it's the phone people, or if
it's the GPS people or the space people.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Someone needs to fix this.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Hello and welcome to MoMA Mia out Loud and to
our Friday show where we step outside of the news
cycle just watch it go by and talk about something
else instead. Today is Friday, the sixth of June, and
I'm Holly Wainwright.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
I'm Jesse Stephen, and i'mm Burnham.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
An on today's show, a famous mother and a treacherous daughter.
That's one way of looking at a new book about dementia.
This sparked a big conversation. Also, do you want a
big life or a little one? What's the difference on
which one of us is lying when we give our answer,
Plus recommendations for your mouth and ears, and our best
and worst of the week. But first, Emily Vernon, in case.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
You missed it, astrology readings aren't working anymore. Oh, so
it's time we start buying spells.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Oh okay.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
People are purchasing and I'm assuming using spells on Etsy,
which are usually sold by professional witches. So Etsy witches
are the new girl bosses. They're making bank selling spells
up to one thousand dollars.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Okay, I have like many questions.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Okay, start with what I'll find some spells. I find
some spells for you. So some spells I've seen are
permanent black magic removal. This spell is currently on sale
for three hundred dollars, down from six thirty, and I
reckon we should get our savings together and buying this.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Because it seems like suggesting.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
There's over eight hundred verified reviews on this spell. One
review said, my experience with the seller and the service
has been fantastic. This is my third time purchasing, and
I'm very happy with the results.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
So this person has had to get of black magic
air three times? What do I get when I buy
a spell on Etsy?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
So you get a one on one with the witch?
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (02:16):
I thought I might get a poem and she prefers,
and then I would just have to say the poem
and then.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Well, a lot of them include documents that you get
on the same day, very fast delivery with these services.
I've also found a job spell that you can get
for thirteen dollars, down from fifty three. One of the
reviews was five stars. Found a job shortly after. Okay,
it's working out well, and you guys are like this
one demonic love binding spell fast results seven hundred and
(02:41):
sixty dollars down from over one thousand. This one review,
he's miserable right now back on his mama's couch. Five stars.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Oh my god, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
It's working.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
So I heard about Etsy Witch because there's a big
TikTok person who got married recently. It was this ringing
only bell someone called Jasmine Jazzline something. Anyway, in her
many many tiktoks about it, she said she got an
Exi witch, an Etsy Witch, not an exi witch right
in a ford a wish from Etsy to cast a
no rain spell over her day. Smart and apparently lots
(03:15):
of people are doing this.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Now, well, did it work?
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Didn't rain? But maybe it wasn't going to rain. And
if it does rain, do you get your money back?
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
That's a great question. Now. I saw a psyekic in
New York once who offered to do a spell. Did
you willingly go see this site? Did I willingly go?
Absolutely speared up? I went in. It was just a
woman's home. She said, you have a love curse on you.
This was I was single, and she said you have
(03:42):
a curse, and you were like, I knew it. You're
speaking my language. And then she said I can undo
this curse. And I was like, well, I'm here, let's
do it. And she said no, no, no, you have
to buy twenty candles and we have to do like
conferences constantly to get rid of the curse. And I
was like, I don't like saying no, but I'm absolutely
saying no to you on this one. And I think
I just undid the curse myself the curse or maybe
(04:07):
you were the witch the whole time. Maybe I was
the witch the whole time exactly.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Etsy Witch? Is that sounds like a new career move.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
There was one that I saw which was if you
want someone to break no contact, so let's say em,
there's someone in your past who you want to reach out.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Right, So I was interested in this demonic love.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Yeah, okay, what you do is you can get an
Etsy witch to put this no contact spell on it,
and then they'll reach out to you, right and all
you need to do is send them the person's birthday
and their photo. And I was like, this is just
a scam. Oh, this is just what we're doing. Is
we're getting all the details about this man and we
are raiding his bank account. And I'm not against that,
(04:44):
but we've got to be honest about what we're doing here.
I spent this week devouring a book called How to
Lose Your Mother that I found deeply engrossing but also challenging. Now,
the author her name is Molly Jong Fast and she's
the daughter of a woman named Erica Jong Holly. Have
you ever heard of this per Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (05:04):
She wrote a book in the early seventies called Fear
of Flying that was for like second way feminists, like
my mom's generation of feminists, a big deal.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
It was about sex.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Yeah, So she became one of those early seventies like
feminist icons. And then I think she wrote quite a
lot of memoir and personal essay.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
She was a big deal of that generation. Had you
ever heard of her?
Speaker 1 (05:26):
No?
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Okay, I had never heard of her either. M but
she became very, very famous, and the peak of her
fame was sort of when her daughter, Molly was born. Right,
she had one daughter. The book sold more than twenty
million copies. Right, and Erica wrote memoirs, as you say
in poetry, and she shared a lot about her daughter.
She shared intimate details about her life, and Molly writes
(05:48):
about how her mum became sort of addicted to fame
and how much it changed her. And the memoir covers
a lot of ground, but the part that stuck with
me was how Molly she is now forty six, she's
a journalist in her own right, does podcasts and stuff.
She writes about her mother's dementia because Erica is now
eighty three and they have a very complicated relationship. But
(06:10):
there are details in the book about Erica and her
diagnosis of dementia and the early signs of it and
how she lives now. So for example, there's a story
about Molly finding fecal matter in her bed, about how
badly her mother began to smell because she wouldn't shower,
And maybe it's because she writes about how much her
(06:31):
mother cared about what people thought about her that I've
been bristling. I've been reading these details, thinking, your mother's
still alive, even though she probably wouldn't be able to
read this book. And I'm wondering how we feel about
those details being shared about someone else. And then as
I was reading this, I listened to last week's No Filter,
(06:52):
katelang Brook interviewed Graciotto about her documentary that is critically acclaimed.
It's called Otto Bioto and it follows her father's diagnosis
of Alzheimer's disease and what it's done to him. M
I think this is a question that's going to get
more and more urgent in our culture, which is how
much of dementia or Alzheimer's is our story, as whether
(07:15):
it's cares or loved ones, how much of it is
our story to tell.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Recently, someone in my life was diagnosed with dementia, and
it's been such a recent but massive adjustment to me
and my family. And it feels like after they were diagnosed,
it became immediately worse, and it's getting faster and faster
and getting worse and worse. And it's that time where
not everyone is aware except the people close to them.
(07:43):
And I always thought growing up that dementia was really simple,
where like if someone had dementia just means they forgot things.
And now I realized it's not true that there's so
many different types of dementia, and the dementia that this
person has in my life is that they don't just
forget things, but they just make things up, which is
really hard. And one of the things that happened was
because we were like on tour together and stuff, I
(08:05):
think they saw a video of me on stage and
then told a lot of people that I was on TV.
And then I was just getting all these messages and
calls congratulating me that I was on TV. It was
just really interesting. But there's been so many more severe
assumptions they've been making about family members, and it feels
like I can't say anything because I don't want to
(08:27):
start the morning period yet, because I'm not in that
phase yet, and they're still very much alive and still
very much aware and still know who we are, and
they can still read and write and watch TV and
things like that, and I just don't ever ever want
to embarrass them because one of the things that their
doctor said was if you keep correcting them and then
(08:48):
they keep gett embarrassed, they'll never want to come out
in society anymore and they will only want to stay
at home. And this person in my life is someone
who loves being out, loves people. So it's kind of
those adjustments that is just something that we just have
to deal with now, because the last thing I'd want
is to tell their story like it's mine.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Yeah, it's a specific kind of experience because we are
all going that way, like as in, we're all getting
older and older every day, and the rates of dementia
and Alzheimer's are increasing because of how much longer we're
all living. So there's like this fear of it. And
maybe when I see these stories, I think I wouldn't
want someone to tell my story at a time when
(09:28):
I've lost my independence, when I'm doing things that wouldn't
necessarily be consistent with the way I would ordinarily live
my life. I'm finding it difficult to work out where
the line is between a care of being seen and
also affording that person dignity.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
I think an inelegant way of looking at this particular
story about Molly and Erica Jong is couldn't Molly.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Have waited a little while, perhaps do.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
You know what I mean, because it's likely, isn't it
that she wouldn't have to wait that long. But on
the other hand, this is a very specific story in
that if her mother mind her life, there has to
be an element of not riv but like, well, you
get what you get.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
And she said that yes, And.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
I have total sympathy for that because it would be
very difficult for her. And the other thing I have
sympathy for, and this is always the case when you're
talking about something complicated that involves someone else, and particularly
caring for people, whether they're children, or whether they're sick,
or whether they're elderly, it's really difficult and isolating. I've
(10:33):
got good friends, I mean, like all of us, there
are people in my life who've been through dementia or
have dementia. But I've got good friends who've nursed parents
through horrific things with dementia. And if they were not
able to talk about those things, I don't mean write
a book about it necessarily, but it's a gift to
(10:54):
be able to share when you're in a very isolated place.
It's a gift to make other people feel seen by that.
And it is complicated because there's someone in my life
who says that, for example, that their relationship with their
mother is actually better now that she has because she's
less angry and difficult, because their relationship was angry and
difficult now. Is that person not supposed to say that?
(11:16):
Do you know what I mean? Like? I think real
life and aging and illness, all these things are really complex.
The going public is complicated, of course it is. But
having said that, I interviewed this amazing woman on mid
a few months ago called Caroline Baum, who's an incredible writer,
and she's written about her mother. It's not really dementia,
but her mother's aging and moving in with her and
(11:37):
then moving out in nursing homes and stuff. And there's
no question in doing that. She has sometimes painted her
mother in a negative light, no question, but it's also
a really powerful truth. I think we like really neat
stories about parental relationships. Everybody old is adorable, Everybody who's
been cared for is grateful, And that's not reality. It's
(12:00):
not what real relationships are like. They're complicated.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
What you said em about what you are seeing with
this person that you love isn't what you expected? Is
I think really interesting because for a lot of people
who love someone with dementia. You start seeing symptoms and
you go, is this normal or is this part of
the dementia or what is it? And so there's real
solidarity and community in sharing stories and going, hey, those
(12:27):
outbursts or like, you know, whether it's moments of anger
are sometimes a stage of it, and that's also sometimes
a symptom. And I think that that's really helpful. But
then on the other hand, I think there's probably a
tention or a question around consent and agency. I remember
when I was growing up, I had a friend's mum
who was diagnosed with terminal cancer, and she did this
(12:49):
interview on television talking about that experience having little kids
and dying of cancer. I've never ever forgotten that interview,
like it was so moving. The thing with dementia is
that no one can tell you what it's like. No
one can really like maybe in the early moments you
can have people go I'm terrified. This is the same
(13:09):
in certain disability communities that if people don't speak on
your behalf, you get totally lost. That's really hard because
I don't know. I've spoken about my grandfather with dementia,
like I don't know how much he is consenting to
anything anymore. And that's really hard when we think about
independence and agency.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Here's a big question for Friday. Do you want a
little life or a big one?
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Big? What you'd say?
Speaker 1 (13:37):
What might a little life look like? And what is
a big one? And is it a quiet rebellion to
turn away from showy achievement and aspire to something quieter.
That's what the writer Caitlin Richardson thinks, and she wrote
about it in her popular substack newsletter milk Fed recently.
I've just read you a couple of little things, she wrote.
She said, there's a pervasive myth that is seeped into
(14:00):
every corner of our current reality, claiming that in order
to have a meaningful life, we're told that worth is
measured in titles, achievements, and the scope of our influence.
It's a myth that demands endless striving, she writes. As
I've gotten older, I've found myself questioning this narrative that
is constantly being fed to us through the algorithms. What
(14:21):
about a life where your career gives you enough to
live comfortably, to live a simple but significant life offline?
Are their lives inherently less valuable because they don't fit
society's definition of mega success. Jesse, do you want to
live a big life or a little life?
Speaker 3 (14:39):
Depends on the day and how much sleep I had.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
I think milk fed by the way this writer also
wrote because she was talking about finding the joy and
all the little mundane things, cooking, being home with your dog,
all that stuff, and like, isn't that enough? It's basically
the pressure.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
You can be ambitious and want some big things and
also know that the greatest joys of life are the
little things. There's this in between. I wrote something for
the Good Weekend after my second book came out about
the Discovery, and we talked about it on the podcast
of Glimmers, and how the way that joy works is
that the big things and the small things are experienced
(15:16):
exactly the same. So the big joys that we strive
towards and that we might put all this sacrifice into,
like releasing a book, right, and you expect to have
this joy that's proportionate to the work you put in,
is the same, because there are moments of joy in that.
But it's the same as I was writing about it,
in that moment of laying on the floor with my
(15:36):
four month old baby like and that, to me, that
was a new lesson. It took me a while to
learn that because I kept feeling like I was getting
to the thing I was aiming for and it was
a mirage. It was like, why don't I feel like
how I'm meant to feel? But this idea of glimmers
and the smallness, Like I heard a famous actor say
this week that the greatest joy for most people is
(15:58):
a day at home. That feels like a relief to.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Me, but also one of the reasons why the greatest
joy for the actor a day at home is because
it's not every day. To Yes, that's so extretely honest,
Like I think I don't mean that as a blanket
statement that everybody would rather not be at home all
the time, but when things are rare, they're also more precious.
And what do you think big life will little life?
I like a big life, and what does a big
(16:21):
life look like? So I think the end goal for
everyone seems to be a little life. But I feel
like you have to have the big life to be
able to afford the little life. Exactly what this writer said, Like,
if you have a career that allows you to have
a little life, then yeah, maybe you have time to
wash the dishes and not have a dish washer, Like
that's what I picture. I picture like the tradwives, and
(16:43):
they're like sunlit kitchen, Like I don't even have a
window in my kitchen, and I feel like living on
a farm with animals and your children and always wearing
white and not getting any stains on your white clothes.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Is that the little life?
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Because I still I don't think what it is. I
think the point here it's a little bit about achievement.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
So it's a little bit like a big.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Life is lots of work, lots of reward, lots of recognition,
lots of stuff, lots of dates in a diary, lots
of travel, lots of emments, lots of things right fills
your life, big, big, big, big, big, Like there are
people we all would follow on the internet who are
always doing something, always somewhere amazing with amazing people. Look,
(17:25):
and I think the point in all this is like,
because we all have so much of a window now
into these big lives, that's now what we're all conditioned
to think is what's right as opposed to the less
instagrammable moments, which I don't think is tradwives and white
clothes and sunlit things. It's more than lying on the
floor with the baby or the dog, or walking with
(17:46):
your grandma or whatever like. And then I think on
another level, it's economic. What she's saying is how much
is enough for you to have a nice life? There's
nothing wrong with that. Rather than constantly being like, my
life isn't enough because I don't have twenty five Berkins
in a mansion and a da da da d D.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
You know, I think we're living a little life. A
lot of it comes with awareness, like you actually have
to be aware that you're experiencing joy in the little
things which I think I'm not good at. Like there
are things that I have to tell myself that I
like doing, Like every morning I have to go for
a walk, and it was only after years of doing
it that I'd be like, oh, I need this walk
(18:23):
because it actually makes me happy. It's not because I
need it to exercise or to like get sugned. It's
actually just makes me happy. And it's those like little
things I've had to teach myself to be like, this
makes you happy, the same way as getting promoted at
work makes you happy, and it's really hard.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
I think the difference too, is that a big life,
reading between the lines of what she wrote, is also
about who you're doing it for. It's a lot about
external validation, so it's about that next promotion, nor it's
about feeling like you get to a place that what
other people are jealous of, whereas a little life. What
I've found really enlightening was in the comments. There are
(19:00):
a lot of people saying I've chosen a little life,
and I'm pitied. I feel the pity.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
One hundred percent. So, for example, you often hear people
say made a choice of either I could work work, work, work, work, work, work,
and have lots and lots of achievement, or I could
accept that I wanted a smaller life, like a literally
maybe a smaller house somewhere further away, or a smaller
you know, we needed less money as a family, we
(19:26):
might not have big European holidays and a car and
like three cars and whatever it is. I chose that
so that I could have more peace. That is like
an active choice in this context of a little life,
right right, and in a competitor obviously obviously it's an
allusion to think that that's always a choice. It's not
always a choice. But like, just for this discussion.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
We struggle to see why anyone would choose that.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
And I sometimes parents say this a lot, very often
full time mothers. I mean, I hate that term because
all parenting is full time. But mothers who don't work
outside the home, parents who don't work outside the home,
will say, we chose this is a family because it
was important to us and our values.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
And if, of.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Course it is a choice, again, that's privileged and I'm
often pitied for it, like why would you do that?
Because you can't have this and you can't have that,
And they're like, but this is what I wanted, and
the pity comes.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
Or the person who chooses a part time job, or
the person who chooses not to have the promotion or
not to keep stepping up on the ladder. Ye, that's
often a conscious choice, but it's one that you've got
to go. Well, people might not understand it, but other
people's opinion of me doesn't make me happy.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Yeah, that's so true. And also about how a lot
of these choices for a little of life has been
made with a family, because when I was thinking what
my life would look like as a little life. It
looks really lonely to me, as being someone who's single
and lives alone, Like I can't imagine even being more
isolated or try not to achieve things that have external validation,
(20:56):
because I think part of my wanting a big life
is that external validation does mean a lot to me,
Like it actually helps me with my career, and it
helps me with what I want to do, and it
also helps build the relationships around me. And I just
feel like if I strived for a little life, it
would just take all of those things away.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
I know what you mean. There's a lot of adrenaline
in the bigness too.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
It's also I don't know, I want both. I want
a big life and a little life.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Is that greedy? Is it? You can't have?
Speaker 1 (21:24):
A professional acquaintance said to me last week, Literally last
week she said to me, we were talking about plans.
She said, you're always saying you want the quiet life,
but I've stopped believing you, and she's right, like I
do always say that. I said, I want to be
home with my veggies and my daughter, and like that's
a little life in a way, and I love that,
but I would be lying if I said I didn't
(21:46):
also like because also life goes through parts of being
big and small. We've just had a very big time.
If you looked at my social media over the past
two months, my life is huge. It looks like you
were two people traveling and doing all these things and
it all looks great, right, and it is great, And wait.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Out you had seven live events in a week or
something and.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
I was like, holle, that's a big life for a time.
And now I don't want that anymore and I want
to be back with my vegetables whatever. My parents think
my life is nuts. They literally do. They'd be like,
why would anybody want a complicated life with lots of
different moving parts? And I understand that. I think it's
a tension. I think there's a tension between wanting peace
(22:28):
and wanting excitement, wanting when you.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
Get one one, you want the other.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Yeah, it doesn't mean that you're confused about well maybe
I am confused, But whether you're confused about what matters,
I think Jesse. You know your story about lying on
the floor with the baby or the dog, or walking
with you an elderly parent, or laughing with your best
friend till you Tommy hurts whatever. We all know that's
really the important stuff, like we do. But it doesn't
mean that your ambitions to achieve certain things, or experience
(22:57):
certain things, or go to certain places or I guess
what I'm trying to say is maybe it's not so binary.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
I don't think it is either, But it did make
me think that the books I love reading the most
are about little life. Yes, same love, little lives and
the day today, mundane things, the stuff of people's lives.
I do not when a book gets too big, I
hate it. I'm not someone who read celebrity memoirs. I
don't like the bigness. I find the littleness of life
(23:26):
far more fascinating. I agree.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
I was listening to an interview with our friend Jacinda
dun Oh yeah close.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
She had had a big life.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
She was the Prime Minister of New Zealand. But she
was talking about this quote that I think it's attributed
to a British psychiatrist, but it's often used in kind
of progressive politics circles as like, really, what people need
for happiness? The corner serves for happiness, somewhere to live,
someone to love, something to do, something to hope for
that really, those for ordinary things and being able to
(23:59):
do those with dignity are the things that really matter.
I think that's absolutely true. But I think it's very
hard to hold on too that sometimes when either your
internal engine is pushing you or you're on Instagram and
it's relentless like boss bitches with their you know, jets,
and just like, this is what hustle looks like, this
(24:21):
is what we should all be striving for. This is
the great thing.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
It's like, what is it now?
Speaker 2 (24:27):
That is after the break. We've got some recommendations for
your weekend.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Vibes, ideas, atmosphere, something casual, something fun.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
This is my best recommendation. It's Friday, so we wanted
to help set up your weekend with our best recommendations.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Holly, I have got actually a little recommendation, an absolute, perfect, literal,
mouthful of joy recommendation. I have made this recipe for
four weekends in a row. It's the easiest thing that
we'll ever do.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Right.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
So, you know friend of the pod, Virginia Trioli, she's
a journalist writer. You all know who she is. She
wrote this book a while ago, called on the Side
and there are some recipes in it. It's not a
recipe book. It's like a memoir. But in it is
this recipe for her grandma's green beans. Right, and this
is all you do?
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Is it green beans as a side? Is it a
mess side? Okay?
Speaker 1 (25:21):
So, like say you've got a piece of steak you're
making that night, or a pork chop or whatever. Right,
you boil your green beans in the afternoon. So earlier
in the day, it's like lunchtime. You think, I'll put
those beans on. Boil them for a couple of minutes.
They's a little bit soft. Then you just put them
in a bowl. You put some salt and pepper. Salt, yeah,
salt and pepper, crushed up garlic, red wine, vinegar, olive oil,
(25:43):
and then you leave them. And you just leave them
all afternoon, and when it's dinner time, you eat them
with your steak. And it is the most delicious bean
you have ever eaten me.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
It's never thought of cooking a bit. I always have
beans at restaurants and I always think how lovely they are.
But I'm not a cooker.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Bean at home, Lady, green bean, and they're in season.
Grab some green beans top and tail and throw them
in the pant but you do it in the day
and then you leave them on the side. Don't put
them in the fridge. You leave them on the side
in their oil and vinegar and stuff. They're so good.
I can't even tell you what it like pickoli?
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Do they become like pickoli.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
It just tastes like vinegary, a bit salady, you know,
like a bit. It's the garlic and the oil and
the vinegar. I've got a picture. I'll put it somewhere,
but like I've started doing that often on a Saturday,
Brent and I'll have like just me and him dinner
on a Saturday night, and it will often be a
nice piece of meat, but like just that and a
salad and the meat like perfect.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
We're gonna put your beans on its dramash Bagh And
what's your recommendation.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
I'm recommending a lipstick that I bought with me because
I'm not wearing it. I don't know why I haven't
recommended this before, because I it's the one lipstick that
I get every single compliment from every single person on
it is the Sephora Collection New Cream lipstain in the
shade Naughty Burgundy, and it's the lipstick that I wore
on tour.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Is it a lipstick or is it a lip like a.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Liquid lipstick, So it goes on like a liquid lipstick,
and then it like dries a little bit on your lips. Matte,
it's more satin, but it does get a bit dry.
So I usually put a barm on before I put
this on. And because I have a really big gob like,
my lips like always gets hit on my chin, so
I always get a lipstick mark on my chin or
my nose. You look great with a bold lip, but
(27:22):
I'll never wear them because it goes everywhere and this
one doesn't move. It stays put all day. You have
to scrub it a bit at night to get it off.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
But it is the best.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
So if you have issues with your lipstick moving on
your face. The Sephora New Cream Lipstain collection, they have
a crapload of colors. If you want to buy this
right now, it's actually fifty percent off at Sephora. It's
now twelve dollars go buy heaps.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
My recommendation, and it's to do with sort of one
of the themes of today's episode. There is a podcast
called Hold the Moment, which I listened to the first
season a little while ago, and they've just dropped the
second season now and it is hosted by Hamish McDonald
and a guy named Jim Rodgers who has early on
set dementia, and it's called Hold the Moment because it's
(28:09):
all about The first season was about people who have
dementia or Alzheimer's. There was an interview I listened to
of this woman that talked about how for her specific
type of dementia, when she dreams, it's lacking fast forward
and it's really distressing. And I didn't realize the insomnia
that a lot of people experience. I know that my
(28:29):
grandfather would see things at night, and apparently it's to
do with like your sleep gets really disturbed, and we
all know what sleep does to memory. So that kind
of compounds a lot of the issues that people have.
But this second season that's just dropped is about carers
and it is so sensitively done. Hamish his father had
dementia and he just talks about him so beautifully. But
(28:51):
Rachel Corbett is interviewed on one of the first episodes.
Both her parents had dementia and she was a care
at such a young age and to give a voice
to that experience I think is so valuable and I
know I sent this around to my family soon as
it came out. So that's the second season of Hold
(29:12):
the Moment.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
After the Break. Our best and worst include Clean Dishes, Carbs, Wine,
and a very special tunnel one unlimited out loud access.
We drop episodes every Tuesday and Thursday exclusively for Mamma
Mia subscribers. Follow the link in the show notes to
get us in your ears five days a week. And
a huge thank you to all our current subscribers. It's
(29:41):
time for our best and Worst of the week, where
we jump in with a little bit of our personal lives.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
Why don't you go first?
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Okay? My worst of the week is something that I
believe is propaganda that we all bought into, Oh my goodness,
and it's the fact that we still haven't figured out
why GPS's and sat navs don't work in the tunnels.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
We don't, don't, I can't.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
There's no way that we haven't figured out. We've sent
Katie Perry to space and we don't know take drive
through a tunnel.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
This happened to me last week when I was driving
in from wherever, and because we've moved offices, I was
trying to come around another way and I was like,
why are you telling me to turn right?
Speaker 3 (30:21):
I'm in a tunnel, right, I drive.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Into the walls.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
And here's what I don't understand. My podcast is working
on my internet's working, so I can't my maps tell me.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
The bus every time?
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Yeah, because the tunnels are changing quicker than the surely not,
surely not.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
It's something the amount of times I've landed up at
the airport but nowhere to go.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
You know it's bad when you see a plane. This
is not the destiny. Someone fix this.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
I don't know if it's the phone people or I
it's the GPS people or the space people. Someone needs
to fix this, the tunnel people. If you get lost.
I got so, and I'm such a nervous driver as is.
Thank god I memorized my route, so when I got
to the tunnel, my map was like turn right, and
I'm like, I know, I have to turn left. And
I really trusted my guard and I turned left and
I made it home and it was great.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Full respect to you to the root, like shut up.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
The worst is when you drive out of the tunnel right,
and it's saying like four minutes and you drive out
of the tunnel and it's like twenty three minutes to destination.
You're like, now this happened again. It's the worst.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Anyway, I just thought I put that out there so
someone can fix it.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
It was just me.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
I feel related to I feel very seen you.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
I thought it was just me too. And I worked
my GPS correctly.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
So my best.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
And I'm about to flex here because you know how
I always complain like live alone, not in relationship, blah
blah blah blah blah. So I was like, I need
to do something about this. I'm like, what can I
do that everyone else can't really do? And I was like,
I can go on a solar retreat.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
I thought you were going to say, I bought Netsy
Witch and now I have a boyfriend.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
And I became any oh my god, Okay, I went
on a solar retreat. So I'm very lucky. My parents
have a house down south close to you Hall in Carlboro,
near the beach.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
It's lovely there.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
It is so nice there, and I went and I
just stayed there by myself for a week. It's a
really tiny house. But when you live in like a
studio apartment, any house is big, and I felt like
I was in a mansion. Yeah, and it was for
my birthday. So my parents came the first day. My
sister got me like a big care package. They bought
me all my groceries, and then they left and I
was just there for the whole week. And I had
(32:30):
like five meals a day. I read three books. I
went to the beach every single day. I had naps,
I went in bath every single day. I watched movies
and TV. It was the best experience of my life.
Did that when I was your age once. It's that
a mate of mine's family had. I used to make
friends with people who had beach houses.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
A good decision, and they had a house down at Mollymook,
which is a bit further along. And I just went
on my own for a week and it was heaven.
And I think I was your age O.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
Good for you. I think everyone needs to do it.
It is the best experience ever.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Some people would be like that would be their worst nightmare. Yeah,
that's my dad's worst nightmare. He didn't understand it.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
I love it. He asked if you wanted to stay
and you.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Were like, please leave, please leave the groceries, and then
leave it, close the door, thank you.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
My worst is that Luna is at a big feelings age,
as the Internet called, and she's got some big feelings.
She's nearly two. That's fine.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Is that like gentle parenting code for the tantrum?
Speaker 3 (33:24):
Yep, yeah, but we call it big feelings and we
just validate the feelings. Chucked her in the pram the
other day. I had to go and fill a script. Right, fun,
fun excursion for all. So we go to the chemist.
But because she can walk now, she's just turned around
and gone, I don't understand why I'm in a pram,
but she's so slow because her legs are too shot,
and I'm like, this is not happening. So we get
to the chemist and I'm you know, you have to
(33:45):
wait for the prescription. And I get her out of
the pram, and of course I didn't put shoes on
her because I ran out of the house. So she's barefoot,
just raging like a wild monkey, and this chemist just
taking things up the shelf and I was like, this
is not fun, and so waited for the prescription. Finally
got it trying to wrestle her back in the pram.
(34:05):
She's screaming like, no, no, no, I'm not getting back
in the pram. So then I'm like fine, but she
keeps walking out of the Chemist and I'm like, this
is why people put leasures on their children, and I understand.
I then leave the Chemist realize I've acidentally shoplifted in
all the like I put something in the bottom of
the pram and didn't realize I hadn't paid for it,
so I to go back in and pay for it.
Come back out, and I go, all right, we're going
in the pram because there's no other way to get
(34:26):
you home. So I'm trying to wrestle her in and
this man comes over to me and goes, are you
Jesse or Claire? And he's like I loved Canceled and
he was the loveliest man. But Luna is screaming, well.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
You like, I'm Claire, this is the childer.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
I just like, do something or I'm just shut do
something mortifying. He was lovely, but I had to kind
of get her in the anyway. She just would not
and there was no way we weren't going to be
able to walk home, so I had to call Luca
and go, I need you to come get us. This
is not good. So he comes, car pulls up and
he's like, don't worry, I've got it. And you know
when the other parent like they're helping, but not quite
(35:05):
in the way you would like them to help. So
he goes, I know, I'll just take Luna. I'll put
on my shoulder. So he walks on a home. I'm
left with the pram which has to be disassembled and
put my thing. He's parked in a bike lane, which,
to be fair to the cyclist, that is really annoying
and potentially dangerous. I got abused by about four cyclos out.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
This is anyway.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
My best was Holly Mayor and I went and got dinner.
We did oh okay, and I know anyway. We went
the other night and it was just so lovely. Because
we work together so closely, we make so much content.
It's like the work is intense, and of course there
are attentions and disagreements and all of that stuff that
(35:50):
comes closely.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
People forget that you guys have known each other for
so long.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
Yeah, it's a long relationship and that The reason we
do this show is because we love talking to each other.
But when you start a podcast, the actual everyday chats
become less and less because you just so busy. So
it was so lovely to go and have dinner and
wine and carbohydrates, and.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Just like anyone was sitting near us, we wore goodness,
like just those annoying loud women in the restaurant. We
were laughing, we were like pushing each other inappropriate story.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
It's fun until someone else is louder then you and
you're like, how dare you exactly?
Speaker 3 (36:31):
It's a communal area. Can you put that toddler away?
What was your worst?
Speaker 1 (36:37):
You know how there are people in the world who,
if they're going on a trip, planning the trip, it's
all the fun of the trip.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
You're probably a bit like this.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
Fuck no oh no, I, I just remembered that we're
the same person when it comes to this stuff. But
if you go on trips, some people love the planning process.
They've got their spreadsheets going, they're getting they love a research,
they're sharing lists with each other. They've all got like
people have got all the reco things and all that. Anyway,
we are lucky enough my family. We're going on a
(37:04):
proper holiday in the next school holidays cannot wait, and
we're going to see my parents, which I cannot wait
because they can't come here anymore and I'm dying.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
To see them.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Anyway, I have done nothing about this holiday. And so
the other day I was like, Okay, I'm going to
book some things and I got scammed immediately. I went
online to book a walking tour in a city and
I went that looks legit. By then I didn't get
an email thing. And then I was like, oh, that's
something about that smells wrong. And I went and googled
(37:33):
and it was like, do not book this tour.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
It's a scam. And I was like, oh no.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
And then people are saying, have you booked this dinner
and you going to this place? And I'm like, no,
I haven't done anything, and I'm just disorganized. I'm down
a couple of hundred dollars. I'm like, I just don't
know how people do.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
Two things. The first thing is that the best walking
tours in Europe auf free. You have to do your
free walking tours. The second thing is everyone says, and look,
I'm not a great adopter of AI, but everyone says
that chat GPT is organizing.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
Yes, that's what you should be doing.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
So you need to just say his where I'm going.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
Tell me what to tell me what to do to teenagers.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
Like exactly what it is? Top, Like, I think you're
meant to tell chat GPT what it is. So you go,
you're a travel agent and I'm going to blah and
I have three days what are the things I should do?
And that'll do it for you.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
Yeah, and then you can download it as a spreadsheet
when I book things.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
Yeah, yes, stupid.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Person, you'll be like, firstly, don't get scared a boomer problems.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
Cool Beet was really really annoyed with me. He was
just like, I can't believe you did that. The best
is again a little live thing, right. But we bought
a new dishwasher that is a flex. But we moved
into our house three years ago now, the house that
we moved into down the coast, and we've been living
with a dishwasher that doesn't quite work for three years.
(38:57):
And there is something so infuriating about putting on a
whole like her family of four go through a lot
of dishes every day, about opening that dishwasher and pulling
out every glass and it's a bit dirty.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
Every bowl.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
It's still got pasta sauce on the bottom every and
so then remember there was that viral article a few
years ago, run the dishwasher twice.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
Terrible for the environment, terrible.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
It was kind of like this, you know, mental load
hack of like if the dishwasher isn't working, just I
could run that dishwasher twenty five times. I didn't because environment.
For months, I've been saying, we just need to bite
the bullet and buy a new dishwasher. Like, yeah, anyway,
we finally did get a new dishwasher, not a very
expensive one, came around, got it installed. Just the joy
(39:39):
of opening a dishwasher and pulling out a glass and
it being clean has improved my quality of life. I
would say maybe forty percent.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
Yeah, it's a little thing, very very basic.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
Just the happiness and the kids, because the kids empty
the dishwasher.
Speaker 3 (39:53):
That's a kid job, right.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
They would be little shits and always be like, it's
all dirty and just.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
Put it all in the sink and walk away.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Now I'm like, no, it's not put it all in
the cupboards. It's like a functioning dishwasher has made my week.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
Thank you. Out loud as we have come to the
end of a week. If momame are out loud another week,
Emily Vernon, massive, thanks for you today. We appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
I was just noticing over there, I'm literally in her shadow.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
In our glorious news studios. We've got the cardboard cutouts
of ourselves that we had on tour, and then there's
just a little picture of member and I don't think
Amilia is even there. Maybe she lives somewhere, but she's
hidden under you. You look very saucy in that picture. Anyway,
massive thank you to all of our team. Do you
too want to tell us who they are?
Speaker 3 (40:42):
A big thank you too? Group executive producer Ruth Devine,
executive producer Emiline Gazillis.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
Our audio producers Leah Porge's video producer Josh Green, and
our junior content producers Coco and Tessa and Mama Mea
Studios are style with furniture from Fentin and Fentin. Visit
Fentin Andfentin dot com dot au.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Goodbye bye, oh Jesse. Before we go, you have some news.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
It's not all from me this way, Collie, because we
have a very special mini series dropping over the weekend.
It is parenting out Loud, That's what we're calling it.
So what it is is we sit in the meetings
and we have so many ideas and so many pictures
of things we want to discuss. It are in the culture,
in the zeitgeist, and sometimes with parenting stories. I mean,
(41:29):
there is a significant portion of our audience that don't
have kids, or maybe they don't want to talk about parenting,
or maybe it's a pain point. So we've always got
to be really careful, and we thought, what if there
are these stories we want to talk about. Some of
them are kind of really big ones that are METI
that we find ourselves gravitating towards. What if we just
fence them off and put them on a weekend episode,
(41:50):
call it parenting out Loud and have a chat. And
so Amelia and I, Amelia Lester and I, who you know,
our own little sampit. I'm so excited where we talk
about parenting. And look, it's not about wheatbix near hair right.
It is not mother's group, it's not our vibe. It
is more like stories that make your work feel bigger.
(42:10):
It's thinky, it's fun. We have had so much fun
making this podcast. So stay tuned. It will drop tomorrow
the first episode.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
And it's a mini series, so it's like a collection
of episodes, yes, and then we'll.
Speaker 3 (42:24):
See exactly it's mixed episodes and we do like special
parenting recommendations and all that kind of stuff, celebrity features,
all that kind of stuff is in it, but it's
through the lens of parenting.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
I'm so excited, parenting out loud. It's dropping on Saturday mornings.
Speaker 3 (42:39):
Shout out to any Mum and MEA subscribers listening. If
you love the show and you want to support us,
subscribing to MoMA Mia is the very best way to
do so. There's a link in the episode description.
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on the amount of times
I've landed up at the airport but nowhere to go.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
No, it's bad when you see a plane. This is
not the destiny. Someone fix this.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
I don't know if it's the phone people, or if
it's the GPS people or the space people.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Someone needs to fix this.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Hello and welcome to MoMA Mia out Loud and to
our Friday show where we step outside of the news
cycle just watch it go by and talk about something
else instead. Today is Friday, the sixth of June, and
I'm Holly Wainwright.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
I'm Jesse Stephen, and i'mm Burnham.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
An on today's show, a famous mother and a treacherous daughter.
That's one way of looking at a new book about dementia.
This sparked a big conversation. Also, do you want a
big life or a little one? What's the difference on
which one of us is lying when we give our answer,
Plus recommendations for your mouth and ears, and our best
and worst of the week. But first, Emily Vernon, in case.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
You missed it, astrology readings aren't working anymore. Oh, so
it's time we start buying spells.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Oh okay.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
People are purchasing and I'm assuming using spells on Etsy,
which are usually sold by professional witches. So Etsy witches
are the new girl bosses. They're making bank selling spells
up to one thousand dollars.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Okay, I have like many questions.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Okay, start with what I'll find some spells. I find
some spells for you. So some spells I've seen are
permanent black magic removal. This spell is currently on sale
for three hundred dollars, down from six thirty, and I
reckon we should get our savings together and buying this.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Because it seems like suggesting.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
There's over eight hundred verified reviews on this spell. One
review said, my experience with the seller and the service
has been fantastic. This is my third time purchasing, and
I'm very happy with the results.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
So this person has had to get of black magic
air three times? What do I get when I buy
a spell on Etsy?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
So you get a one on one with the witch?
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (02:16):
I thought I might get a poem and she prefers,
and then I would just have to say the poem
and then.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Well, a lot of them include documents that you get
on the same day, very fast delivery with these services.
I've also found a job spell that you can get
for thirteen dollars, down from fifty three. One of the
reviews was five stars. Found a job shortly after. Okay,
it's working out well, and you guys are like this
one demonic love binding spell fast results seven hundred and
(02:41):
sixty dollars down from over one thousand. This one review,
he's miserable right now back on his mama's couch. Five stars.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Oh my god, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
It's working.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
So I heard about Etsy Witch because there's a big
TikTok person who got married recently. It was this ringing
only bell someone called Jasmine Jazzline something. Anyway, in her
many many tiktoks about it, she said she got an
Exi witch, an Etsy Witch, not an exi witch right
in a ford a wish from Etsy to cast a
no rain spell over her day. Smart and apparently lots
(03:15):
of people are doing this.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Now, well, did it work?
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Didn't rain? But maybe it wasn't going to rain. And
if it does rain, do you get your money back?
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
That's a great question. Now. I saw a psyekic in
New York once who offered to do a spell. Did
you willingly go see this site? Did I willingly go?
Absolutely speared up? I went in. It was just a
woman's home. She said, you have a love curse on you.
This was I was single, and she said you have
(03:42):
a curse, and you were like, I knew it. You're
speaking my language. And then she said I can undo
this curse. And I was like, well, I'm here, let's
do it. And she said no, no, no, you have
to buy twenty candles and we have to do like
conferences constantly to get rid of the curse. And I
was like, I don't like saying no, but I'm absolutely
saying no to you on this one. And I think
I just undid the curse myself the curse or maybe
(04:07):
you were the witch the whole time. Maybe I was
the witch the whole time exactly.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Etsy Witch? Is that sounds like a new career move.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
There was one that I saw which was if you
want someone to break no contact, so let's say em,
there's someone in your past who you want to reach out.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Right, So I was interested in this demonic love.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Yeah, okay, what you do is you can get an
Etsy witch to put this no contact spell on it,
and then they'll reach out to you, right and all
you need to do is send them the person's birthday
and their photo. And I was like, this is just
a scam. Oh, this is just what we're doing. Is
we're getting all the details about this man and we
are raiding his bank account. And I'm not against that,
(04:44):
but we've got to be honest about what we're doing here.
I spent this week devouring a book called How to
Lose Your Mother that I found deeply engrossing but also challenging. Now,
the author her name is Molly Jong Fast and she's
the daughter of a woman named Erica Jong Holly. Have
you ever heard of this per Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (05:04):
She wrote a book in the early seventies called Fear
of Flying that was for like second way feminists, like
my mom's generation of feminists, a big deal.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
It was about sex.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Yeah, So she became one of those early seventies like
feminist icons. And then I think she wrote quite a
lot of memoir and personal essay.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
She was a big deal of that generation. Had you
ever heard of her?
Speaker 1 (05:26):
No?
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Okay, I had never heard of her either. M but
she became very, very famous, and the peak of her
fame was sort of when her daughter, Molly was born. Right,
she had one daughter. The book sold more than twenty
million copies. Right, and Erica wrote memoirs, as you say
in poetry, and she shared a lot about her daughter.
She shared intimate details about her life, and Molly writes
(05:48):
about how her mum became sort of addicted to fame
and how much it changed her. And the memoir covers
a lot of ground, but the part that stuck with
me was how Molly she is now forty six, she's
a journalist in her own right, does podcasts and stuff.
She writes about her mother's dementia because Erica is now
eighty three and they have a very complicated relationship. But
(06:10):
there are details in the book about Erica and her
diagnosis of dementia and the early signs of it and
how she lives now. So for example, there's a story
about Molly finding fecal matter in her bed, about how
badly her mother began to smell because she wouldn't shower,
And maybe it's because she writes about how much her
(06:31):
mother cared about what people thought about her that I've
been bristling. I've been reading these details, thinking, your mother's
still alive, even though she probably wouldn't be able to
read this book. And I'm wondering how we feel about
those details being shared about someone else. And then as
I was reading this, I listened to last week's No Filter,
(06:52):
katelang Brook interviewed Graciotto about her documentary that is critically acclaimed.
It's called Otto Bioto and it follows her father's diagnosis
of Alzheimer's disease and what it's done to him. M
I think this is a question that's going to get
more and more urgent in our culture, which is how
much of dementia or Alzheimer's is our story, as whether
(07:15):
it's cares or loved ones, how much of it is
our story to tell.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Recently, someone in my life was diagnosed with dementia, and
it's been such a recent but massive adjustment to me
and my family. And it feels like after they were diagnosed,
it became immediately worse, and it's getting faster and faster
and getting worse and worse. And it's that time where
not everyone is aware except the people close to them.
(07:43):
And I always thought growing up that dementia was really simple,
where like if someone had dementia just means they forgot things.
And now I realized it's not true that there's so
many different types of dementia, and the dementia that this
person has in my life is that they don't just
forget things, but they just make things up, which is
really hard. And one of the things that happened was
because we were like on tour together and stuff, I
(08:05):
think they saw a video of me on stage and
then told a lot of people that I was on TV.
And then I was just getting all these messages and
calls congratulating me that I was on TV. It was
just really interesting. But there's been so many more severe
assumptions they've been making about family members, and it feels
like I can't say anything because I don't want to
(08:27):
start the morning period yet, because I'm not in that
phase yet, and they're still very much alive and still
very much aware and still know who we are, and
they can still read and write and watch TV and
things like that, and I just don't ever ever want
to embarrass them because one of the things that their
doctor said was if you keep correcting them and then
(08:48):
they keep gett embarrassed, they'll never want to come out
in society anymore and they will only want to stay
at home. And this person in my life is someone
who loves being out, loves people. So it's kind of
those adjustments that is just something that we just have
to deal with now, because the last thing I'd want
is to tell their story like it's mine.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Yeah, it's a specific kind of experience because we are
all going that way, like as in, we're all getting
older and older every day, and the rates of dementia
and Alzheimer's are increasing because of how much longer we're
all living. So there's like this fear of it. And
maybe when I see these stories, I think I wouldn't
want someone to tell my story at a time when
(09:28):
I've lost my independence, when I'm doing things that wouldn't
necessarily be consistent with the way I would ordinarily live
my life. I'm finding it difficult to work out where
the line is between a care of being seen and
also affording that person dignity.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
I think an inelegant way of looking at this particular
story about Molly and Erica Jong is couldn't Molly.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Have waited a little while, perhaps do.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
You know what I mean, because it's likely, isn't it
that she wouldn't have to wait that long. But on
the other hand, this is a very specific story in
that if her mother mind her life, there has to
be an element of not riv but like, well, you
get what you get.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
And she said that yes, And.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
I have total sympathy for that because it would be
very difficult for her. And the other thing I have
sympathy for, and this is always the case when you're
talking about something complicated that involves someone else, and particularly
caring for people, whether they're children, or whether they're sick,
or whether they're elderly, it's really difficult and isolating. I've
(10:33):
got good friends, I mean, like all of us, there
are people in my life who've been through dementia or
have dementia. But I've got good friends who've nursed parents
through horrific things with dementia. And if they were not
able to talk about those things, I don't mean write
a book about it necessarily, but it's a gift to
(10:54):
be able to share when you're in a very isolated place.
It's a gift to make other people feel seen by that.
And it is complicated because there's someone in my life
who says that, for example, that their relationship with their
mother is actually better now that she has because she's
less angry and difficult, because their relationship was angry and
difficult now. Is that person not supposed to say that?
(11:16):
Do you know what I mean? Like? I think real
life and aging and illness, all these things are really complex.
The going public is complicated, of course it is. But
having said that, I interviewed this amazing woman on mid
a few months ago called Caroline Baum, who's an incredible writer,
and she's written about her mother. It's not really dementia,
but her mother's aging and moving in with her and
(11:37):
then moving out in nursing homes and stuff. And there's
no question in doing that. She has sometimes painted her
mother in a negative light, no question, but it's also
a really powerful truth. I think we like really neat
stories about parental relationships. Everybody old is adorable, Everybody who's
been cared for is grateful, And that's not reality. It's
(12:00):
not what real relationships are like. They're complicated.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
What you said em about what you are seeing with
this person that you love isn't what you expected? Is
I think really interesting because for a lot of people
who love someone with dementia. You start seeing symptoms and
you go, is this normal or is this part of
the dementia or what is it? And so there's real
solidarity and community in sharing stories and going, hey, those
(12:27):
outbursts or like, you know, whether it's moments of anger
are sometimes a stage of it, and that's also sometimes
a symptom. And I think that that's really helpful. But
then on the other hand, I think there's probably a
tention or a question around consent and agency. I remember
when I was growing up, I had a friend's mum
who was diagnosed with terminal cancer, and she did this
(12:49):
interview on television talking about that experience having little kids
and dying of cancer. I've never ever forgotten that interview,
like it was so moving. The thing with dementia is
that no one can tell you what it's like. No
one can really like maybe in the early moments you
can have people go I'm terrified. This is the same
(13:09):
in certain disability communities that if people don't speak on
your behalf, you get totally lost. That's really hard because
I don't know. I've spoken about my grandfather with dementia,
like I don't know how much he is consenting to
anything anymore. And that's really hard when we think about
independence and agency.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Here's a big question for Friday. Do you want a
little life or a big one?
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Big? What you'd say?
Speaker 1 (13:37):
What might a little life look like? And what is
a big one? And is it a quiet rebellion to
turn away from showy achievement and aspire to something quieter.
That's what the writer Caitlin Richardson thinks, and she wrote
about it in her popular substack newsletter milk Fed recently.
I've just read you a couple of little things, she wrote.
She said, there's a pervasive myth that is seeped into
(14:00):
every corner of our current reality, claiming that in order
to have a meaningful life, we're told that worth is
measured in titles, achievements, and the scope of our influence.
It's a myth that demands endless striving, she writes. As
I've gotten older, I've found myself questioning this narrative that
is constantly being fed to us through the algorithms. What
(14:21):
about a life where your career gives you enough to
live comfortably, to live a simple but significant life offline?
Are their lives inherently less valuable because they don't fit
society's definition of mega success. Jesse, do you want to
live a big life or a little life?
Speaker 3 (14:39):
Depends on the day and how much sleep I had.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
I think milk fed by the way this writer also
wrote because she was talking about finding the joy and
all the little mundane things, cooking, being home with your dog,
all that stuff, and like, isn't that enough? It's basically
the pressure.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
You can be ambitious and want some big things and
also know that the greatest joys of life are the
little things. There's this in between. I wrote something for
the Good Weekend after my second book came out about
the Discovery, and we talked about it on the podcast
of Glimmers, and how the way that joy works is
that the big things and the small things are experienced
(15:16):
exactly the same. So the big joys that we strive
towards and that we might put all this sacrifice into,
like releasing a book, right, and you expect to have
this joy that's proportionate to the work you put in,
is the same, because there are moments of joy in that.
But it's the same as I was writing about it,
in that moment of laying on the floor with my
(15:36):
four month old baby like and that, to me, that
was a new lesson. It took me a while to
learn that because I kept feeling like I was getting
to the thing I was aiming for and it was
a mirage. It was like, why don't I feel like
how I'm meant to feel? But this idea of glimmers
and the smallness, Like I heard a famous actor say
this week that the greatest joy for most people is
(15:58):
a day at home. That feels like a relief to.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Me, but also one of the reasons why the greatest
joy for the actor a day at home is because
it's not every day. To Yes, that's so extretely honest,
Like I think I don't mean that as a blanket
statement that everybody would rather not be at home all
the time, but when things are rare, they're also more precious.
And what do you think big life will little life?
I like a big life, and what does a big
(16:21):
life look like? So I think the end goal for
everyone seems to be a little life. But I feel
like you have to have the big life to be
able to afford the little life. Exactly what this writer said, Like,
if you have a career that allows you to have
a little life, then yeah, maybe you have time to
wash the dishes and not have a dish washer, Like
that's what I picture. I picture like the tradwives, and
(16:43):
they're like sunlit kitchen, Like I don't even have a
window in my kitchen, and I feel like living on
a farm with animals and your children and always wearing
white and not getting any stains on your white clothes.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Is that the little life?
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Because I still I don't think what it is. I
think the point here it's a little bit about achievement.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
So it's a little bit like a big.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Life is lots of work, lots of reward, lots of recognition,
lots of stuff, lots of dates in a diary, lots
of travel, lots of emments, lots of things right fills
your life, big, big, big, big, big, Like there are
people we all would follow on the internet who are
always doing something, always somewhere amazing with amazing people. Look,
(17:25):
and I think the point in all this is like,
because we all have so much of a window now
into these big lives, that's now what we're all conditioned
to think is what's right as opposed to the less
instagrammable moments, which I don't think is tradwives and white
clothes and sunlit things. It's more than lying on the
floor with the baby or the dog, or walking with
(17:46):
your grandma or whatever like. And then I think on
another level, it's economic. What she's saying is how much
is enough for you to have a nice life? There's
nothing wrong with that. Rather than constantly being like, my
life isn't enough because I don't have twenty five Berkins
in a mansion and a da da da d D.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
You know, I think we're living a little life. A
lot of it comes with awareness, like you actually have
to be aware that you're experiencing joy in the little
things which I think I'm not good at. Like there
are things that I have to tell myself that I
like doing, Like every morning I have to go for
a walk, and it was only after years of doing
it that I'd be like, oh, I need this walk
(18:23):
because it actually makes me happy. It's not because I
need it to exercise or to like get sugned. It's
actually just makes me happy. And it's those like little
things I've had to teach myself to be like, this
makes you happy, the same way as getting promoted at
work makes you happy, and it's really hard.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
I think the difference too, is that a big life,
reading between the lines of what she wrote, is also
about who you're doing it for. It's a lot about
external validation, so it's about that next promotion, nor it's
about feeling like you get to a place that what
other people are jealous of, whereas a little life. What
I've found really enlightening was in the comments. There are
(19:00):
a lot of people saying I've chosen a little life,
and I'm pitied. I feel the pity.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
One hundred percent. So, for example, you often hear people
say made a choice of either I could work work, work, work, work, work, work,
and have lots and lots of achievement, or I could
accept that I wanted a smaller life, like a literally
maybe a smaller house somewhere further away, or a smaller
you know, we needed less money as a family, we
(19:26):
might not have big European holidays and a car and
like three cars and whatever it is. I chose that
so that I could have more peace. That is like
an active choice in this context of a little life,
right right, and in a competitor obviously obviously it's an
allusion to think that that's always a choice. It's not
always a choice. But like, just for this discussion.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
We struggle to see why anyone would choose that.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
And I sometimes parents say this a lot, very often
full time mothers. I mean, I hate that term because
all parenting is full time. But mothers who don't work
outside the home, parents who don't work outside the home,
will say, we chose this is a family because it
was important to us and our values.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
And if, of.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Course it is a choice, again, that's privileged and I'm
often pitied for it, like why would you do that?
Because you can't have this and you can't have that,
And they're like, but this is what I wanted, and
the pity comes.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
Or the person who chooses a part time job, or
the person who chooses not to have the promotion or
not to keep stepping up on the ladder. Ye, that's
often a conscious choice, but it's one that you've got
to go. Well, people might not understand it, but other
people's opinion of me doesn't make me happy.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Yeah, that's so true. And also about how a lot
of these choices for a little of life has been
made with a family, because when I was thinking what
my life would look like as a little life. It
looks really lonely to me, as being someone who's single
and lives alone, Like I can't imagine even being more
isolated or try not to achieve things that have external validation,
(20:56):
because I think part of my wanting a big life
is that external validation does mean a lot to me,
Like it actually helps me with my career, and it
helps me with what I want to do, and it
also helps build the relationships around me. And I just
feel like if I strived for a little life, it
would just take all of those things away.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
I know what you mean. There's a lot of adrenaline
in the bigness too.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
It's also I don't know, I want both. I want
a big life and a little life.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Is that greedy? Is it? You can't have?
Speaker 1 (21:24):
A professional acquaintance said to me last week, Literally last
week she said to me, we were talking about plans.
She said, you're always saying you want the quiet life,
but I've stopped believing you, and she's right, like I
do always say that. I said, I want to be
home with my veggies and my daughter, and like that's
a little life in a way, and I love that,
but I would be lying if I said I didn't
(21:46):
also like because also life goes through parts of being
big and small. We've just had a very big time.
If you looked at my social media over the past
two months, my life is huge. It looks like you
were two people traveling and doing all these things and
it all looks great, right, and it is great, And wait.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Out you had seven live events in a week or
something and.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
I was like, holle, that's a big life for a time.
And now I don't want that anymore and I want
to be back with my vegetables whatever. My parents think
my life is nuts. They literally do. They'd be like,
why would anybody want a complicated life with lots of
different moving parts? And I understand that. I think it's
a tension. I think there's a tension between wanting peace
(22:28):
and wanting excitement, wanting when you.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
Get one one, you want the other.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Yeah, it doesn't mean that you're confused about well maybe
I am confused, But whether you're confused about what matters,
I think Jesse. You know your story about lying on
the floor with the baby or the dog, or walking
with you an elderly parent, or laughing with your best
friend till you Tommy hurts whatever. We all know that's
really the important stuff, like we do. But it doesn't
mean that your ambitions to achieve certain things, or experience
(22:57):
certain things, or go to certain places or I guess
what I'm trying to say is maybe it's not so binary.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
I don't think it is either, But it did make
me think that the books I love reading the most
are about little life. Yes, same love, little lives and
the day today, mundane things, the stuff of people's lives.
I do not when a book gets too big, I
hate it. I'm not someone who read celebrity memoirs. I
don't like the bigness. I find the littleness of life
(23:26):
far more fascinating. I agree.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
I was listening to an interview with our friend Jacinda
dun Oh yeah close.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
She had had a big life.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
She was the Prime Minister of New Zealand. But she
was talking about this quote that I think it's attributed
to a British psychiatrist, but it's often used in kind
of progressive politics circles as like, really, what people need
for happiness? The corner serves for happiness, somewhere to live,
someone to love, something to do, something to hope for
that really, those for ordinary things and being able to
(23:59):
do those with dignity are the things that really matter.
I think that's absolutely true. But I think it's very
hard to hold on too that sometimes when either your
internal engine is pushing you or you're on Instagram and
it's relentless like boss bitches with their you know, jets,
and just like, this is what hustle looks like, this
(24:21):
is what we should all be striving for. This is
the great thing.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
It's like, what is it now?
Speaker 2 (24:27):
That is after the break. We've got some recommendations for
your weekend.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Vibes, ideas, atmosphere, something casual, something fun.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
This is my best recommendation. It's Friday, so we wanted
to help set up your weekend with our best recommendations.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Holly, I have got actually a little recommendation, an absolute, perfect, literal,
mouthful of joy recommendation. I have made this recipe for
four weekends in a row. It's the easiest thing that
we'll ever do.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Right.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
So, you know friend of the pod, Virginia Trioli, she's
a journalist writer. You all know who she is. She
wrote this book a while ago, called on the Side
and there are some recipes in it. It's not a
recipe book. It's like a memoir. But in it is
this recipe for her grandma's green beans. Right, and this
is all you do?
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Is it green beans as a side? Is it a
mess side? Okay?
Speaker 1 (25:21):
So, like say you've got a piece of steak you're
making that night, or a pork chop or whatever. Right,
you boil your green beans in the afternoon. So earlier
in the day, it's like lunchtime. You think, I'll put
those beans on. Boil them for a couple of minutes.
They's a little bit soft. Then you just put them
in a bowl. You put some salt and pepper. Salt, yeah,
salt and pepper, crushed up garlic, red wine, vinegar, olive oil,
(25:43):
and then you leave them. And you just leave them
all afternoon, and when it's dinner time, you eat them
with your steak. And it is the most delicious bean
you have ever eaten me.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
It's never thought of cooking a bit. I always have
beans at restaurants and I always think how lovely they are.
But I'm not a cooker.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Bean at home, Lady, green bean, and they're in season.
Grab some green beans top and tail and throw them
in the pant but you do it in the day
and then you leave them on the side. Don't put
them in the fridge. You leave them on the side
in their oil and vinegar and stuff. They're so good.
I can't even tell you what it like pickoli?
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Do they become like pickoli.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
It just tastes like vinegary, a bit salady, you know,
like a bit. It's the garlic and the oil and
the vinegar. I've got a picture. I'll put it somewhere,
but like I've started doing that often on a Saturday,
Brent and I'll have like just me and him dinner
on a Saturday night, and it will often be a
nice piece of meat, but like just that and a
salad and the meat like perfect.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
We're gonna put your beans on its dramash Bagh And
what's your recommendation.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
I'm recommending a lipstick that I bought with me because
I'm not wearing it. I don't know why I haven't
recommended this before, because I it's the one lipstick that
I get every single compliment from every single person on
it is the Sephora Collection New Cream lipstain in the
shade Naughty Burgundy, and it's the lipstick that I wore
on tour.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Is it a lipstick or is it a lip like a.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Liquid lipstick, So it goes on like a liquid lipstick,
and then it like dries a little bit on your lips. Matte,
it's more satin, but it does get a bit dry.
So I usually put a barm on before I put
this on. And because I have a really big gob like,
my lips like always gets hit on my chin, so
I always get a lipstick mark on my chin or
my nose. You look great with a bold lip, but
(27:22):
I'll never wear them because it goes everywhere and this
one doesn't move. It stays put all day. You have
to scrub it a bit at night to get it off.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
But it is the best.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
So if you have issues with your lipstick moving on
your face. The Sephora New Cream Lipstain collection, they have
a crapload of colors. If you want to buy this
right now, it's actually fifty percent off at Sephora. It's
now twelve dollars go buy heaps.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
My recommendation, and it's to do with sort of one
of the themes of today's episode. There is a podcast
called Hold the Moment, which I listened to the first
season a little while ago, and they've just dropped the
second season now and it is hosted by Hamish McDonald
and a guy named Jim Rodgers who has early on
set dementia, and it's called Hold the Moment because it's
(28:09):
all about The first season was about people who have
dementia or Alzheimer's. There was an interview I listened to
of this woman that talked about how for her specific
type of dementia, when she dreams, it's lacking fast forward
and it's really distressing. And I didn't realize the insomnia
that a lot of people experience. I know that my
(28:29):
grandfather would see things at night, and apparently it's to
do with like your sleep gets really disturbed, and we
all know what sleep does to memory. So that kind
of compounds a lot of the issues that people have.
But this second season that's just dropped is about carers
and it is so sensitively done. Hamish his father had
dementia and he just talks about him so beautifully. But
(28:51):
Rachel Corbett is interviewed on one of the first episodes.
Both her parents had dementia and she was a care
at such a young age and to give a voice
to that experience I think is so valuable and I
know I sent this around to my family soon as
it came out. So that's the second season of Hold
(29:12):
the Moment.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
After the Break. Our best and worst include Clean Dishes, Carbs, Wine,
and a very special tunnel one unlimited out loud access.
We drop episodes every Tuesday and Thursday exclusively for Mamma
Mia subscribers. Follow the link in the show notes to
get us in your ears five days a week. And
a huge thank you to all our current subscribers. It's
(29:41):
time for our best and Worst of the week, where
we jump in with a little bit of our personal lives.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
Why don't you go first?
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Okay? My worst of the week is something that I
believe is propaganda that we all bought into, Oh my goodness,
and it's the fact that we still haven't figured out
why GPS's and sat navs don't work in the tunnels.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
We don't, don't, I can't.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
There's no way that we haven't figured out. We've sent
Katie Perry to space and we don't know take drive
through a tunnel.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
This happened to me last week when I was driving
in from wherever, and because we've moved offices, I was
trying to come around another way and I was like,
why are you telling me to turn right?
Speaker 3 (30:21):
I'm in a tunnel, right, I drive.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Into the walls.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
And here's what I don't understand. My podcast is working
on my internet's working, so I can't my maps tell me.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
The bus every time?
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Yeah, because the tunnels are changing quicker than the surely not,
surely not.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
It's something the amount of times I've landed up at
the airport but nowhere to go.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
You know it's bad when you see a plane. This
is not the destiny. Someone fix this.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
I don't know if it's the phone people or I
it's the GPS people or the space people. Someone needs
to fix this, the tunnel people. If you get lost.
I got so, and I'm such a nervous driver as is.
Thank god I memorized my route, so when I got
to the tunnel, my map was like turn right, and
I'm like, I know, I have to turn left. And
I really trusted my guard and I turned left and
I made it home and it was great.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Full respect to you to the root, like shut up.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
The worst is when you drive out of the tunnel right,
and it's saying like four minutes and you drive out
of the tunnel and it's like twenty three minutes to destination.
You're like, now this happened again. It's the worst.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Anyway, I just thought I put that out there so
someone can fix it.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
It was just me.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
I feel related to I feel very seen you.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
I thought it was just me too. And I worked
my GPS correctly.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
So my best.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
And I'm about to flex here because you know how
I always complain like live alone, not in relationship, blah
blah blah blah blah. So I was like, I need
to do something about this. I'm like, what can I
do that everyone else can't really do? And I was like,
I can go on a solar retreat.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
I thought you were going to say, I bought Netsy
Witch and now I have a boyfriend.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
And I became any oh my god, Okay, I went
on a solar retreat. So I'm very lucky. My parents
have a house down south close to you Hall in Carlboro,
near the beach.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
It's lovely there.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
It is so nice there, and I went and I
just stayed there by myself for a week. It's a
really tiny house. But when you live in like a
studio apartment, any house is big, and I felt like
I was in a mansion. Yeah, and it was for
my birthday. So my parents came the first day. My
sister got me like a big care package. They bought
me all my groceries, and then they left and I
was just there for the whole week. And I had
(32:30):
like five meals a day. I read three books. I
went to the beach every single day. I had naps,
I went in bath every single day. I watched movies
and TV. It was the best experience of my life.
Did that when I was your age once. It's that
a mate of mine's family had. I used to make
friends with people who had beach houses.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
A good decision, and they had a house down at Mollymook,
which is a bit further along. And I just went
on my own for a week and it was heaven.
And I think I was your age O.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
Good for you. I think everyone needs to do it.
It is the best experience ever.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Some people would be like that would be their worst nightmare. Yeah,
that's my dad's worst nightmare. He didn't understand it.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
I love it. He asked if you wanted to stay
and you.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Were like, please leave, please leave the groceries, and then
leave it, close the door, thank you.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
My worst is that Luna is at a big feelings age,
as the Internet called, and she's got some big feelings.
She's nearly two. That's fine.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Is that like gentle parenting code for the tantrum?
Speaker 3 (33:24):
Yep, yeah, but we call it big feelings and we
just validate the feelings. Chucked her in the pram the
other day. I had to go and fill a script. Right, fun,
fun excursion for all. So we go to the chemist.
But because she can walk now, she's just turned around
and gone, I don't understand why I'm in a pram,
but she's so slow because her legs are too shot,
and I'm like, this is not happening. So we get
to the chemist and I'm you know, you have to
(33:45):
wait for the prescription. And I get her out of
the pram, and of course I didn't put shoes on
her because I ran out of the house. So she's barefoot,
just raging like a wild monkey, and this chemist just
taking things up the shelf and I was like, this
is not fun, and so waited for the prescription. Finally
got it trying to wrestle her back in the pram.
(34:05):
She's screaming like, no, no, no, I'm not getting back
in the pram. So then I'm like fine, but she
keeps walking out of the Chemist and I'm like, this
is why people put leasures on their children, and I understand.
I then leave the Chemist realize I've acidentally shoplifted in
all the like I put something in the bottom of
the pram and didn't realize I hadn't paid for it,
so I to go back in and pay for it.
Come back out, and I go, all right, we're going
in the pram because there's no other way to get
(34:26):
you home. So I'm trying to wrestle her in and
this man comes over to me and goes, are you
Jesse or Claire? And he's like I loved Canceled and
he was the loveliest man. But Luna is screaming, well.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
You like, I'm Claire, this is the childer.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
I just like, do something or I'm just shut do
something mortifying. He was lovely, but I had to kind
of get her in the anyway. She just would not
and there was no way we weren't going to be
able to walk home, so I had to call Luca
and go, I need you to come get us. This
is not good. So he comes, car pulls up and
he's like, don't worry, I've got it. And you know
when the other parent like they're helping, but not quite
(35:05):
in the way you would like them to help. So
he goes, I know, I'll just take Luna. I'll put
on my shoulder. So he walks on a home. I'm
left with the pram which has to be disassembled and
put my thing. He's parked in a bike lane, which,
to be fair to the cyclist, that is really annoying
and potentially dangerous. I got abused by about four cyclos out.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
This is anyway.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
My best was Holly Mayor and I went and got dinner.
We did oh okay, and I know anyway. We went
the other night and it was just so lovely. Because
we work together so closely, we make so much content.
It's like the work is intense, and of course there
are attentions and disagreements and all of that stuff that
(35:50):
comes closely.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
People forget that you guys have known each other for
so long.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
Yeah, it's a long relationship and that The reason we
do this show is because we love talking to each other.
But when you start a podcast, the actual everyday chats
become less and less because you just so busy. So
it was so lovely to go and have dinner and
wine and carbohydrates, and.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Just like anyone was sitting near us, we wore goodness,
like just those annoying loud women in the restaurant. We
were laughing, we were like pushing each other inappropriate story.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
It's fun until someone else is louder then you and
you're like, how dare you exactly?
Speaker 3 (36:31):
It's a communal area. Can you put that toddler away?
What was your worst?
Speaker 1 (36:37):
You know how there are people in the world who,
if they're going on a trip, planning the trip, it's
all the fun of the trip.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
You're probably a bit like this.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
Fuck no oh no, I, I just remembered that we're
the same person when it comes to this stuff. But
if you go on trips, some people love the planning process.
They've got their spreadsheets going, they're getting they love a research,
they're sharing lists with each other. They've all got like
people have got all the reco things and all that. Anyway,
we are lucky enough my family. We're going on a
(37:04):
proper holiday in the next school holidays cannot wait, and
we're going to see my parents, which I cannot wait
because they can't come here anymore and I'm dying.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
To see them.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Anyway, I have done nothing about this holiday. And so
the other day I was like, Okay, I'm going to
book some things and I got scammed immediately. I went
online to book a walking tour in a city and
I went that looks legit. By then I didn't get
an email thing. And then I was like, oh, that's
something about that smells wrong. And I went and googled
(37:33):
and it was like, do not book this tour.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
It's a scam. And I was like, oh no.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
And then people are saying, have you booked this dinner
and you going to this place? And I'm like, no,
I haven't done anything, and I'm just disorganized. I'm down
a couple of hundred dollars. I'm like, I just don't
know how people do.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
Two things. The first thing is that the best walking
tours in Europe auf free. You have to do your
free walking tours. The second thing is everyone says, and look,
I'm not a great adopter of AI, but everyone says
that chat GPT is organizing.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
Yes, that's what you should be doing.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
So you need to just say his where I'm going.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
Tell me what to tell me what to do to teenagers.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
Like exactly what it is? Top, Like, I think you're
meant to tell chat GPT what it is. So you go,
you're a travel agent and I'm going to blah and
I have three days what are the things I should do?
And that'll do it for you.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
Yeah, and then you can download it as a spreadsheet
when I book things.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
Yeah, yes, stupid.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Person, you'll be like, firstly, don't get scared a boomer problems.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
Cool Beet was really really annoyed with me. He was
just like, I can't believe you did that. The best
is again a little live thing, right. But we bought
a new dishwasher that is a flex. But we moved
into our house three years ago now, the house that
we moved into down the coast, and we've been living
with a dishwasher that doesn't quite work for three years.
(38:57):
And there is something so infuriating about putting on a
whole like her family of four go through a lot
of dishes every day, about opening that dishwasher and pulling
out every glass and it's a bit dirty.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
Every bowl.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
It's still got pasta sauce on the bottom every and
so then remember there was that viral article a few
years ago, run the dishwasher twice.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
Terrible for the environment, terrible.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
It was kind of like this, you know, mental load
hack of like if the dishwasher isn't working, just I
could run that dishwasher twenty five times. I didn't because environment.
For months, I've been saying, we just need to bite
the bullet and buy a new dishwasher. Like, yeah, anyway,
we finally did get a new dishwasher, not a very
expensive one, came around, got it installed. Just the joy
(39:39):
of opening a dishwasher and pulling out a glass and
it being clean has improved my quality of life. I
would say maybe forty percent.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
Yeah, it's a little thing, very very basic.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
Just the happiness and the kids, because the kids empty
the dishwasher.
Speaker 3 (39:53):
That's a kid job, right.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
They would be little shits and always be like, it's
all dirty and just.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
Put it all in the sink and walk away.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Now I'm like, no, it's not put it all in
the cupboards. It's like a functioning dishwasher has made my week.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
Thank you. Out loud as we have come to the
end of a week. If momame are out loud another week,
Emily Vernon, massive, thanks for you today. We appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
I was just noticing over there, I'm literally in her shadow.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
In our glorious news studios. We've got the cardboard cutouts
of ourselves that we had on tour, and then there's
just a little picture of member and I don't think
Amilia is even there. Maybe she lives somewhere, but she's
hidden under you. You look very saucy in that picture. Anyway,
massive thank you to all of our team. Do you
too want to tell us who they are?
Speaker 3 (40:42):
A big thank you too? Group executive producer Ruth Devine,
executive producer Emiline Gazillis.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
Our audio producers Leah Porge's video producer Josh Green, and
our junior content producers Coco and Tessa and Mama Mea
Studios are style with furniture from Fentin and Fentin. Visit
Fentin Andfentin dot com dot au.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Goodbye bye, oh Jesse. Before we go, you have some news.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
It's not all from me this way, Collie, because we
have a very special mini series dropping over the weekend.
It is parenting out Loud, That's what we're calling it.
So what it is is we sit in the meetings
and we have so many ideas and so many pictures
of things we want to discuss. It are in the culture,
in the zeitgeist, and sometimes with parenting stories. I mean,
(41:29):
there is a significant portion of our audience that don't
have kids, or maybe they don't want to talk about parenting,
or maybe it's a pain point. So we've always got
to be really careful, and we thought, what if there
are these stories we want to talk about. Some of
them are kind of really big ones that are METI
that we find ourselves gravitating towards. What if we just
fence them off and put them on a weekend episode,
(41:50):
call it parenting out Loud and have a chat. And
so Amelia and I, Amelia Lester and I, who you know,
our own little sampit. I'm so excited where we talk
about parenting. And look, it's not about wheatbix near hair right.
It is not mother's group, it's not our vibe. It
is more like stories that make your work feel bigger.
(42:10):
It's thinky, it's fun. We have had so much fun
making this podcast. So stay tuned. It will drop tomorrow
the first episode.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
And it's a mini series, so it's like a collection
of episodes, yes, and then we'll.
Speaker 3 (42:24):
See exactly it's mixed episodes and we do like special
parenting recommendations and all that kind of stuff, celebrity features,
all that kind of stuff is in it, but it's
through the lens of parenting.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
I'm so excited, parenting out loud. It's dropping on Saturday mornings.
Speaker 3 (42:39):
Shout out to any Mum and MEA subscribers listening. If
you love the show and you want to support us,
subscribing to MoMA Mia is the very best way to
do so. There's a link in the episode description.
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