June 16, 2025 • 41 mins
Questions from the weekend: What's an 11A? Why is America protesting kings? And what took Sir David Beckham so long? Mia, Jessie, and Em Vernem are here with the answers.
Plus, Sabrina Carpenter drops her new album cover—and the internet loses its mind. Is it DV glamour porn? Subversive satire? Or just a PR play we’ve seen before?
And, Aussie content creator Indy Clinton hired a private investigator to unmask her worst trolls. What she discovered was a rude awakening for anonymous haters.
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- Listen: Jessie & The Inside Scoop On The Project's Cancellation
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- Listen: A Famous Mother & A Treacherous Daughter
- Listen: Celebrities Are Spruiking Their Boob Jobs. Everyone Cool With That?
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Watch Mamamia Out Loud:
What to read:
- Indy Clinton was determined to unmask her trolls. She's just been handed a 64-page report.
- Leave Indy Clinton alone.
- Yes, this album cover is shocking, but that's the whole point.
- A very important history of David Beckham sooking about not being knighted.
- If you thought surviving the Air India crash was miraculous, wait until you hear the backstory.
- A moment for Hollywood's professional trolls.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Welcome to Mumma out Loud. It is Monday, the sixteenth
of June. I'm Jesse Stevens, I'm mea Friedman.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
And I'm m Van m filling in for Holly And
on the.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Show today, everyone's talking about the only survivor of last
week's Air India one seven to one crash. So should
we all be booking seat eleven A on our next flight?
One of the worst trolls on the Internet has finally
had their identity revealed, but not before making millions of
dollars from hate and will we be able to resist
(00:50):
taking the drama bait that Sabrina Carpenter is serving with
her new album cover where she's on her knees having
her hair pulled. No, we're going in, but.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
First, in case you missed it, you might be wondering
why No King's protests erupted all over the US over
the weekend and what that has to do with a
very awkward military parade held in Washington.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Yeah, it was one of those things where I read
No King's protests, and I thought that they were connected
to last week's la riots, and I sort of no
one really explained what no kings meant.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Yeah, okay, so let's start at the beginning. Basically, President
Donald Trump finally held a military parade, which he's wanted
to do for ages. Talked about that at the beginning
of his first term, that it's something he wanted to do.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
They do it in North Korea, and he's a big
fan of Kim Jong Russia.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Putin also loves the military parade.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Aren't military is quite busy?
Speaker 3 (01:50):
You would think that they have better things to do.
So the celebration of the US Army's two hundred and
fiftieth anniversary just coincidentally coincided with Trump's seventy ninth birthday.
And at the estimated cost of forty five million US
dollars that's about sixty nine million Australian dollars, this is
at a time when the American economy is under a
(02:11):
lot of scrutiny, and it's just a lot of spending.
He had tanks and soldiers parade down the streets of Washington.
So the event happened over the weekend, and he said.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
Time and again, America's enemies have learned that if you
threatened the American people, our soldiers are coming for you,
your defeat will be certain, your demise will be final,
and your downfall will be total and complete.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
He then threatened America's enemies, and he walked up the
stage to chance of USA USA.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
So with this parade, I'm confused on who it was
actually four because it felt like a big celebration of America.
But yet it also felt like I was trying to
tell the rest of the world something.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
That's such a good point. It felt like a show,
like a point was being made about the strength of
the American military, which historically does it tasting. The last
time something like this happened was in the early nineties
and it was to signify the end of the Gulf War.
It was just unclear why you would just have this
military show.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
I mean, Trump loves these displays of authoritarianism, and it's
like from his gold toilet to it's king behavior. It's
king behavior, it's giving king behavior.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
It's really hard with reports, right because obviously there's inherent
bias on both sides. But I tried to look objectively,
and it does seem like the parade was set up
for a lot of spectators and that there were sort
of maybe ten thousand.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
It looked like the tek toks were so cringe like
you could just see the tanks going down the street
and it's complete silence.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Yeah, it did seem a little bit awkward. And to
contrast with that, it did seem like they anticipated a
certain amount of spectators and that many people didn't show up,
which brings us to the protests. Literally millions of people
in the US turned out to No King's protests all
over the country, opposing not just the military parade, but
Trump's totalitarian approach to his presidencies and the excesses. And
(04:04):
also it's called No Kings because in seventeen seventy six,
as Hamilton fans will know, America decided that they were
separate from the monarchy, unlike Australia, unlike Canada. They said,
we do not want a king like independence and democracy
and freedom is foundational to the US. So for someone
to come in and behave like a king is so
(04:25):
anti American in a way that clearly has riled a
lot of Americans.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Are well, it used to be. I don't know if
it still is, and I mean I just kept thinking
Trump will be stoked at the idea that he's a king.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Yeah right, even the yeah, oh you think I'm a king.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Yeah, it's like, yeah, I'm king. And funnily enough, the
Trooping of the Color, which is the big parade in
the UK that is overseen by the actual king being
Charles Now, I mean probably the footage that you saw
of that was Louis pulling faces because he is MVP
of the royal family. So the no King's protests had
(05:02):
nothing to do with the ice raids and the immigration protests,
so they in LA last week.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
They are somewhat related because a lot of the people
who showed up are also going the immigration policies are
and overreach. They're saying that's not something that and there's
a lot of questions about that, like the bill, and
so people went in solidarity for what's happening all over
the US. But literally millions in all of these capital
cities went and protested, and Trump kind of warned that
(05:28):
anyone who protested in Washington would face the full extent
of the law and blah blah blah. But it felt
significant because there is so much unrest globally, and it
was like the US was saying, we are putting our
foot down. These were the biggest protests against Trump ever,
and they were saying, we want to defend out democracy.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
The last time we saw such big protests across the
US and in fact across the world was after he
was first elected in twenty sixteen. Do you remember the
Women's March when everyone was wearing those pink pussy hats.
I went on a Sydney version of one. There were
that helped a lot. I'm glad I did that. I
think that there's something Protests don't necessarily make actual change,
(06:06):
but if you've ever been to one, there's something very
cathartic about feeling that you are actually doing something, even
if it's not going to change anything. And I mean,
you know, me marching down a street with my daughter
and my mum and thousands of other women in Sydney
certainly wasn't going to change the election of Donald Trump,
or in fact the reelection of Donald Trump. But there's
(06:27):
something about being with like minded people that I don't know.
I like a protest. It was also a peaceful protest.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
It was also enormously symbolic because this military one was
happening at a time where citizens were saying, look at
how many people turned up to this this kind of
maga event, and this is how many people are opposing it,
even though most recent there was a poll done recently
and most Americans are in support of the immigration policies,
(06:54):
like they look unpopular because of how unpopular they are
in California, but most Americans are just like, yeah, we
need to crack down on immigration.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Popstars Sabrina Carpenter, who I once heard described as that
former child star who wears no pants and likes to
get raded, released what may or may not be the
cover of her new album on the weekend, and if
you're a woman on the internet, you are legally obliged
to have an opinion about it. So here we are, Okay.
The photo is of her if you haven't seen it,
in a short black dress and heels, kneeling on all
(07:25):
fours with a man standing in front of her. You
can't see his face.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Could be a woman en trousers.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Oh, could be this person who looks like a man
in suit pants is pulling her hair as if they're pulling.
He's got a fist full of hair, fistful of hair
and it's like he's pulling her up while she looks
at the camera hornly.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Kind of like a dog on alish.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Yeah, And then the next photo is of an actual
dog with a dog tag saying Man's best Friend, which
is the name of her album I think Anyway. She
also released her first single from the album called Manchild,
which sounds like this colon. Now that film clip is
(08:18):
all about her hitchhiking and some like denim underpants with
all these unsuitable guys and look Serena Carpenter. Her brand
is all sort of about sassy girlishness, a bit like
pollypocket meets brat dolls.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Yep, sexy baby.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Sexy baby, and what she does is actually some very
funny things with her lyrics. She uses humor a lot
in her music. So my favorite lyrics from Manchild is
why so sexy? If so dumb? And how survived the
earth so long? If I'm not there, it won't get done.
I choose to blame your mum.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
Now.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
The question, of course, is when is a photo about
female submission subversive and ironic and when is it just
a bit yuck? Some people are shouting don't kink shame.
Let the girl be submissive if she wants to be.
Some are shouting, this looks like domestic violence, glamour porn.
Others are shouting, wait until the whole album and cover
art comes out, don't judge too soon. And of course,
(09:12):
just like when any woman does a controversial thing, some
people are calling it the death of feminism. So are
we all just falling for rage bait? I'm so tired. Yes,
it is rage bait, and talk us through.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
I made the mistake of publicly talking about this a
bit too early on, and I got a lot of.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Hate for it.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
What position did you take?
Speaker 2 (09:33):
I took the position of I've been a huge, huge
Sabrina Carpenter fan. I've loved everything she does. She even
does like sex positions on her stage when she's performing.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Still a big fan of that.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
When I saw this artwork, it deeply upset me, and
I was trying to figure out what about it made
me so upset, And I think it's quite straightforward to me.
I think her doing that position I would be fine with.
It's the man in the photo that has made me
really upset, and I think it's gone from her constantly
(10:07):
saying like being female in power and having all of
these songs that are pretty much like, don't deal with
shitty men, You're better than that. And it would always
contrast with what she was wearing and the look she
put out there, and I'd still get it, Like, I
still thought it was quite empowering. But then this album
cover is not empowering to me. It just feels degrading.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Here's my question, because the criticism is pandering to the
male gaze and she's on all fours. Have you ever
met a male Sabrina Carpenter fan who's not a queer man,
like if she's really pandering to the straight male gaze,
because I don't know any of them who listened to
her music, like Sabrina Carpenter and her team know who
her audience is.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Yeah, but that's we have internalized the male gaze so
much as women that that's not a new thing. So
you know, Britney Spears didn't have a lot of straight
male fans, but she would wear a little sexy school
girl uniform. It's been that way since the dawn of time,
that as straight women, we've internalized what the male gaze
is like the Kardashians. Men don't buy the Kardashians products,
(11:08):
but they are very male gaze coded. So this is
to me very male gaze coded. But some people say, well,
what about if submission is your thing?
Speaker 3 (11:20):
To that, I say, I don't think there is anything
submissive about Sabrina Carpenter. If you watch her shows on stage,
as you say, am, it's about sex positions. Her lyrics
are about.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Her being in control, her.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Being in control, and even this, I think there's more
to it. I think it's a bit of a cop
out when celebrities are like, this is only one bit,
and it's like, no, this does stand alone as a
cultural tech.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
I think we can criticize this without hearing the whole album.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
I completely agree. And if we do discover that it
zooms out and that that man has the face of
Sabrina Carpenter, you still bait at us, ye, like you did. Well,
it's clickbait, right, yeah, that's exactly what they're doing. But
I know that she's on on fours and stuff. But
the name of the album being man Best Friend, which
is a dog, which is a bitch? Like is she
playing with bitch? And is she playing with and a
(12:05):
lot of the lyrics as well. Is she kind of
meant to be severing a lot of what we think
about the submissive woman. And I can see that being
playful and fun in the same way. I was watching
the Alex Cooper documentary and like when she talks about
blowjobs on.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Stage, the gluck gluck nine thousand, exactly.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
She's not pandering to the male gaze. Just because women
are doing something sexual or talking about sex doesn't mean
they're trying to get railed, as the Internet says.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Sorr when the Internet was talking about being railed. Being
railed is not a negative thing. Being railed doesn't imply
necessarily a lack of consent, to my understanding. It's more
that she's very sex positive, so hence they're doing the
sex positions in her concerts. And that's been one of
these things that hopefully this there's a long history of
child stars trying to shock their fans out of seeing
(12:57):
them in a different way.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
The Disney Star sort of one eighty.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Yeah, and maybe this is going to be the death
knell in women saying, or mothers particularly saying, I took
my child to the Sabrina Carpenter concert or the you
know chapel rone concert or whatever, and she swore and
I don't like that. And it's like when we started
seeing it was kind of around Taylor Swift that we
started seeing female pop stars as something for little girls.
(13:23):
And probably that's not a good thing.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
But I still think she has some sort of responsibility
here because she is selling tickets to young girls.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Yeah, but it's not like she's not a wiggle. If
people want to bring their young girls and the people
that buy tickets for young girls are their mothers, that's
up to the parents. She's not parenting a generation of children.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
Do you think though, that this image as well, there's
Sabrina Carpenter aesthetic, which is the blonde, the short, the
very made up, has become almost like Maga coded. And
I'm thinking this with Sidney Sweeney too, is that in
Trump's America, when women's rights are being wound back and
(14:04):
when women do feel like they are being pushed into
an oppressed, submissive position, that this isn't funny anymore, that
this isn't fair.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Yeah, that's interesting. Her lyrics don't say that. So in
some ways her appearance is a trojan horse because she
looks this way, but then she subverts your expectations because
she doesn't sing about being a trad wife, not.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Unlike Dolly Putton. Yes, like the same thing where it's
kind of the boobs, and but then it's like, do
we just I mean the thing about don't judge an
album by its cover or whatever. Again, this was released
as a cultural text and maybe the discussion and if
this is even a trojan horse to just get us
all to listen to her music, which is presenting a
different image than I get that, but I do think
(14:44):
this is being read differently in an America that feels
under threat.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Coming back to saying straight men aren't fans of Sbrina Carpet,
I agree. I don't think a lot of them are,
but they still follow her. Every guy I've dated has
followed Sabrina Carpenter on Instagram. Interesting and I do not
suggest anyone go down this rabbit hole, but I went
down a full reddit rabbit hole that was connected to
a Twitter account that was connected to another subreddit. Of
these men who just get the privilege of looking at
(15:12):
this image and making comments like can't wait to add
this to the wank bank. Oh, I was going to say,
and do you think these men care that we're having
this discussion on whether this is female empowerment or not.
They just get permission to look at a photo like that,
and they also get permission from the women around them
to say, this is empowering. You can do that.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Bitches love it when you pull their hair, and some do.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
And I think that is where the harmful aspect of
it comes from.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
This is where I struggle. It's not her responsibility. Where
is it written that pop stars have to be role models?
Who said that to Mick Jagger? Who said that to
the Beatles? Like, no one expects that of men.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
But in a time I see what I'm saying, in
a time when it does feel like women's rights and
autonomy are under threat. If I saw this on a
billboard in the US right now, how would I feel?
I would feel like, oh God, that's not helping. Like
it doesn't feel in a world of Billie Eilish's and
Chapel Roan's and even.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
The case that's happening with Sean Combs where alleged we're
seeing footage of him dragging Cassie by the hair to
allegedly assault her. It's just not the time, It's.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Not countercultural, its cultural?
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Yeah right in a moment, one of Australia's most famous
influencers hired a private investigator, and I'm going to tell
you what she discovered. Two somewhat related stories this week,
emerging from the bowels of the internet, which is where
I hang out after ten pm and a dodgy curry.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
The first is that Australian influencer Indie Clinton, she's got
more than two million followers on TikTok. She hired a
private investigator to identify her online trolls. What you need
to know about Indie Clinton is that she is a
content creator. She has three little kids. She had a
first kid at twenty two, and she posts a lot
about the chaos and the mess and the reality of
(17:01):
having little kids. That's kind of her shtick. Do you
remember we spoke about Clinton a few months ago when
it came to she'd had a nose job. I think
she was saying it was for health reasons, and she
received a lot of backlash and after that, trolling intensified
and she just went, I'm going to find out who
these people are who are having a go at me.
So over the weekend, she shared a video holding a
(17:23):
sixty four page DOSSI are full of information, apparently, including
their Australian business numbers, where they gave birth, their tattoo designs,
and even the name of their gynecologist.
Speaker 5 (17:36):
Many of you are mothers, which I think is most
surprising to me because I'm like, oh my god, I
literally know every detail, down to your abn and down
to where you gave birth at hospital. Another beautiful troll
of mine, you regret your evil eyes tatoo you got
when you were eighteen. You know what I regret a
tatoo I got when I was eighteen two. I have
(17:57):
a moon, but I feel like with an evil eye,
it's meant to look after you. But I guess if
you're trolling, it's not going to do that.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
Yeah, that's all. It's good research, but it's also like,
isn't health information privileged?
Speaker 1 (18:12):
I just kind of went on, I've just been the
name of their gynecologists, not like their records, presumably, although I.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Don't think that anyone should know whether or not I
went to the gynocologist in the last week. I feel
like that's weird. Anyway. She discovered that most of her
trolls were mothers. Doesn't surprise anyone. No, that surprised me.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Yeah. So the reason this didn't surprise me at all
is that so often when you look at trolls, and
when we say trolls, we don't mean just someone who
leaves one nasty comment. It's someone who has a pattern
of you know, online storkreuse behavior almost or obsessive behavior
about particular individuals, and it invariably turns out that that
(18:52):
person has similarities with the person that they're trolling. I'll
give you another example, Probably the most famous case of
this is Lindy West two in twenty fifteen. She's a
body positive activist, feminist author. She gets trolled a huge amount,
and back then, Achille, back then, she was pretty used
(19:13):
to it. You know, there were people who called her
all sorts of names every single day. But then her
father died and there was this person who opened a
fake account under her father's name on Twitter and was
posting about the location six feet under you know, ashamed
of my fat pig of a daughter, like horrible, horrible things.
And Lindy, the instruction that you're always given, the advice
(19:36):
you're always given, is don't feed the trolls. Don't retweet them,
don't mention them, don't reply to them. Just block them,
report them, block them, report them. And she chose to
speak about this, and she wrote about it and how
deeply hurt she'd been by this particular troll. And one
day he wrote to her and he just said, it's me.
(19:56):
I'm the person, and this is my real name. I've
emailed you from three different email accounts. I'm ashamed of
what I did. The reason that I've done it is
because you seem really happy with your elf and your weight,
and I'm not. He was overweight, he hated himself. And
she ended up interviewing him on an episode of This
(20:17):
American Life and again and again. And I know a
number of people who found their trolls, who found out
who they were, and they always tend to be someone
within their sphere. So, for example, if Indy Clinton makes
content about motherhood, it's another mother. If it's someone who
makes content about beauty, it might be a beauty journalist
(20:37):
or someone who wants to be a beauty influencer. They're
within that realm.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
And look, Indy Clinton has said that while she won't
be sharing the names of any of these trolls. She
wants them to know that they are not anonymous, which
brings us to another massive story out of the UK
this week regarding a site called Tattle. We've agonized for
years about whether or not to talk about Tattle on
this show because we know that when we say that word,
(21:06):
it sends people there, and we do not want people
going to this like disgust sewer, cruel sewer of the internet,
because basically it is this forum where people bitch about influencers.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
And anyone in the public eye, but mostly women.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
Yes, mostly women. And we're going to get in a
sect to the difference between saying I don't agree with
what she did and what happens on Tattle. But anyway,
an Irish couple recently sued Tattle and uncovered the creator,
who is a plant based recipe influencer, an author named
Sebastian Bond, a man. It's a man and influencer in fact,
and an influencer. There was a fine that went with it,
(21:43):
but basically we've learned that this man has made a
lot of money off adds on Tattle because he just
went this is a place for hate on the Internet. Great,
I can monetize it well. Tattle says that it's a
place for commentary and critiques of people who choose to
monetize their personal life as a business and release it
into the public domain. In reality, what happens is that
people get defamed, bullied, and even doxed. So they're threatened, threatened,
(22:06):
their address gets leaked, the school of their children gets leaked,
and what that means, Like, it doesn't sound like that
bigger thing, but if you think about how many people
hate Indy Clinton and then someone puts her address on
the Internet, that actually puts her in real danger. And
I have had a look there for stories that I
wrote on the site. I haven't touched it since, but
(22:29):
what has shocked me is that it might start off
as something that maybe is a vale critique, and then
it goes down into fifty pages on how this person
is a terrible mother and her children should be taken
from her. Like it, it is so much about motherhood
as well, which I think comes back to an appearance
and appearance exactly right, em what do these two stories
(22:51):
teach us? Do they really teach us that the Internet
isn't an anonymous place after all?
Speaker 2 (22:56):
I kind of hope so, like when I heard about
the Indie Clinton story, it made me quite hopeful for
not just trolls, but just like any form of anonymous comment.
I find that anonymous comments, especially when you're in the
public eye, such a cowardly thing to do. And I
make it a point that if someone critiques me and
it's constructive critiques and they have their name on it,
(23:18):
I will always reply.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
I will always what's the difference between a constructive critique
and someone a troll?
Speaker 2 (23:25):
A troll would be someone who's just like for example,
when I talked about the spreena Carpeenter stuff, someone commented, Oh,
you just hate women and you're such a prude, you're
fucking bitch. Yeah, right, and then I go into their
profile and it's like no profile picture, like fake name
versus a critique. Was like, I really heard what you
said on that, this is what I think. I think
you're wrong, And I'm like, Okaya.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
Faith, you're less. I got myse' nice, get your set.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
It didn't call me ugly, you're very respectful. It was nice.
But the tattle thing I made the mistake of going
on title when I was very young, like I was
probably twenty one, and I just went down this hole
because it's actually so wild how people can just be
like it's so easy to see how people can be
on their twenty four to seven.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Every single day. It's a community.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
These people who hate themselves.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
People are not just so sad. And it doesn't even
make it like there's nothing constructive about it. You'll just
get like a title, for example, You'll just see a
title saying Emily Vernon, and then underneath will be just
like thread after thread after threads. It'll be like Emily Venum,
looks Emily Venamma Emily, And it's just like, how.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Is it kind of started setting that that if you
read it, I don't know how you would go on
without those things imprinted in your brain.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
I mean, the real world impact. People sort of throw
around the ideas of mental health, but the Internet for
a lot of us is our workplace, and I don't know,
we're not programmed to be able to deal with knowing
what everybody thinks about you. It's a very modern dilemma
that biology hasn't caught up with yet. I know. Lee
(25:00):
Campbell wrote about it on her Stories on the Weekend.
She also has had lawyers involved to find people who
had harassed her through tattle, and she's got all of
their d She sent cease and desist letters to them.
She's also chosen not to make their names public. But
just be aware if you visit these sites and you
comment on them alone, if you own them, it is
(25:21):
coming for you. You know, you won't be protected by
anonymity anymore.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
You know. What is interesting, though, is that the worst
trolling I have seen and received is from people who
didn't even try to be anonymous. So it's like the
tattle of it all seeps into Internet speak and seeps
into how we all treat each other, like there are
people with real Often I get a message and I
(25:47):
think that can't possibly be from a real person. You
look at it and it is their real account, And
what can any of us do. I'm not going to
sue anyone, probably for defamation, no matter how many hundreds
of thousands of people they pose something to. The only
thing you can do is kind of ignore it.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
But that's not true. You can actually see them, you can,
and more and more people are choosing to do that.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Yeah, but anonymity isn't the only problem here. It's the discourse,
it's the tone, it's the way that you go people
on the Internet. I think TikTok's made even way.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Don't you think. Also we've turned cruelty into performance.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
So into content.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
People have always thought awful things, right Like, I'm not
saying I think awful things. I'll look at someone, or
i'll see someone, or I'll flick past something and I'll
have an uncharitable thought. Not all the time, sometimes I
will stays in my head. The difference is the Internet,
and anonymity on the Internet has allowed us, you know,
both anonymously and under our names, to perform that cruelty
(26:39):
for collaps for likes, for engagement, for validation, for something
to do, for the little hit you get from people
agreeing with you.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
What's difficult, too, is that what starts as valid criticism
because there is part of the tattle ethos that I think,
all right, so if someone is a public figure, I
do believe I mean, of course we believe it. We
sit here and we just talked about Sabrina Carpenter's album cover,
and we have an understanding of what we think is
helpful or fair discourse. And you play the idea rather
than the person as much as you can, so you
(27:11):
go criticisms allowed. It's a democracy. But what's difficult when
it comes to the subject of women is that it
will inevitably quickly just turn. It just turns, and you
watch it turn into this incredibly personal sexist The irony
that this was created by a man and upheld by
women is so sad that the patriarchy is embedded in
(27:33):
all of this, because what do we do. We call
women ugly, we call them bad mothers, We undermine them
in a way that we don't men. Go and try
and find the threat about a man, you can't.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
The one person I was thinking about all weekend is
a man named vishuas Kumar Ramesh, who was the sole
survivor of a plane crash that happened in Ahmadabad, India
on Thursday.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Did you see the footage of him? It was surreal,
just like walking through the streets he.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Walked out of the crash.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
I read.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
I came in this morning and was speaking to you
about it, and like I read every story about this
over the weekend.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Not one because I'm scared of flying. Shout out to
all the out louders who were scared of flying. I
don't know whether you should be cheered by this story.
Probably not because it involves a plane crash and it's
tragic because everybody else on the plane died. But anyway,
tell us about this guy.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
The one question I had about his survival was how
So what we know is that it was an Air
India flight that was bound for London and it crashed
into a hostile block shortly after take off, like and
it was like a seconds.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Yeah, it was a medical hostile yeah, so it was
people training to be doctors and stuff.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
And it killed two hundred and forty one passengers and
crew on board, as well as people on the ground.
So far, it's been reported that the total number of
debts is two hundred and ninety. It's a bit close
to home because the exact same aircraft had actually flown
out from Melbourne to Deli just four days before the crash. So,
as we said, Rameshtans just survived the crash, but he
(29:01):
was actually reported walking out of it, and there's video
footage of that as well. And I feel like when
one of these things happen, it's so traed and so shocking.
But all everyone wants to know is how did he survive?
Speaker 1 (29:15):
What seat was he in?
Speaker 2 (29:16):
That's the thing. So I looked this up and I
used to do a lot of work in SEO, and
I saw that the search term eleven A seat was
trending like crazy the day after the crash happened, because
that's the seat that Ramesh was sitting in. So he
was seated in eleven A, which is the emergency exit seat,
and he reported that he was able to push open
(29:38):
the door, kick open the door and walk out of
the plane. So he said, when the door broke and
I saw there was some space, I tried to get
out of there and I did. No one could have
gotten out from the opposite side, which was towards the
wall because it had crashed there. I managed to unbuckle myself,
use my legs to push through that opening and crawled out.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Oh my goodness. That is because afterwards he was interviewed
and he sort of didn't even know what happen.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
It was like in his hospital bed and yeah, people
with microphones rather as yeah. So everyone's asking should I
now be booking eleven A on every plane I go
to from my holidays And the answer is no. So
it was only the safest seat. And I have to
talk about my dad here because my dad and I
talked about this a lot because he's an ex pilot
(30:24):
and he has a lot of friends who fly for India.
And the thing with plane crashes is that it takes
so much investigative work that goes into it after a
plane crash, because we're in twenty twenty five and it's
still very much one of those situations where it shouldn't
be happening.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
It's so and we should say it is so. So
rest plane was.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Absolutely rare, and they put so much work into it,
so we'd only get like an initial report three months
after and then we'll get like a final report like
one to two years after, because that's how.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Much work goes. It's speculation.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
It's speculation. I think right now they discovered one out
of the two black boxes in the plane, and the
black boss just has all the logs so they can
see what went down as well as like radio communication.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
So what does your dad think happened?
Speaker 2 (31:08):
So the thing my dad, he doesn't want to speculate
because he says the reason why plane crashes are so
rare because every time a plane crash happens, they do
everything they can to make sure it doesn't happen again,
which makes each plane crash quite unique. So it's actually
quite problematic that this trend of seats eleven a is
trending because it's actually not true, like that is not
(31:28):
the safest seat.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
It happens to be safest seat in that particular plane
on that particular day in the way that particular crash happened.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Like everything has to be so unique that it can't
be replicated. There have been studies, though, so to put
everyone's mind at ease. So a twenty fifteen time analysis
found that sitting within five rows of an exit row
you have more chances of surviving. There was also a
National Transportation Safety Board study that studied twenty crashes since
nineteen seventy one, and they said that the rear third
(31:58):
of the plane, particularly the middle seat, has the lowest
fatality rates. My dad was like, everyone needs when you
sit on a plane, everyone needs to put their devices
down and listen to this safety instructions. That is the
only es anymore.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
My dad.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
You should see him on flights. He looks at people,
he taps people on the shoulders and put your phone down,
watch the safety flight. No one does it anymore. And
when you're in that circumstance of going through a plane crash,
you don't remember it. Even if you went on a
flight yesterday, You'll only remember what you saw just twenty
seconds before it happened, which is exactly what happened. This
was plane crashed eleven seconds after I took off.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
After the break a change of pace arise to David.
We have some scarrelous gossip about why David Beckham finally
got a knighthood and what this means in the context
of his family drama.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
What unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday
and Thursday exclusively for Mum and Maya subscribers. Follow the
link in the show notes to get us in your
ears five days a week, and a huge thank you
to all our current subscribers.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Finally, that photo of a night that David Beckham has
had on his vision board for years has off. I'm
a crowd, I feel really emotional. Well, he's done more
than manifested because on the weekend it was announced that
he's officially going to be Sir David Beckham and Victoria
will officially be Lady Posh.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
And the first thing a lot of people will think
when they hear this news is how is that man
already not a Knight?
Speaker 5 (33:30):
Right?
Speaker 3 (33:30):
He seems like night material He's he is, Sir David
Beckham already.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Well not technically, but this will be a recognition of
services to sport and to charity something something football. Now
the ceremony is going to be in a few months.
Wasn't on the weekend, but good news, Jesse. You're right.
Recipients are entitled to use their new title as soon
as it's announced.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Can I tell you this is one of my Roman empires?
Is how badly David Beckham has always wanted a knighthood.
So twenty thirteen he did a kicker and intercept that
was a big deal. No one cares he bent it
like hevented like Beckham did. Yeap, And he's in an
interview with Jonathan Ross on ITV and Jonathan Ross says
a lot of people said, you deserve a knighthood for
that kick? Yeah, tis donna highest do Honnor. Don't you
(34:10):
think you deserve the knighthood? And he was like, oh,
stop it, I don't deserve that. I'm happy that I've
got my order of something something England. He has something
else anyway, emails revealed that that question was asked because
David Beckham's people asked Donathan Ross to ask that question
and Jonathan Ross, can you please also say you think
(34:30):
he should have one? No, that's so good, he.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Emails from David's people.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
Yeah, then what happens is he doesn't get one. And
then in twenty fourteen he doesn't get one and leaked
messages within his PR team and this was, look, we
should say, this is scaraliscossip. We're not proud of how
we know this, but it was. It was leaked, and
we didn't read it on tatle that we did not
read it on tattle. He's in the script chat with
his PR team and he describes the honors committee as
(34:54):
a bunch of cunts and he said that it's an
effing joke. And then this is my favorite part, is
that he then starts going after other people that got
a knighthood, such as a woman named Catherine Jenkins, who
he said was just honored because she was singing at
the rug Bee. She's an opera singer. He was actually
kind of a big deal, but he got quite petty.
And then the back and forth goes with his people
(35:17):
like at this point. I don't even know how we
know this, but they're like, look, David, our recommendation is
we could send out a petty comment because at that
point he wanted them to make a statement about how
unfair it was, and they're like, we reckon, just like
stay with the unisef like, let's just keep So there's
this kind of joke that he's like, I've got to
do more fucking charity work to get this editing knighthood.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
And he had to go and stand in line to
visit the queen.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
Yeah, she was lying.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
He still didn't get it.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
Then he still didn't get it. He has played the
long game, and there is something so relatable to me
about how desperately this man wants a knighthood. He's finally
got it. I think he had to do beck he
had to do the doco. I reckon. The doco was
the last kind of I'm going to do the best
doc I've ever made about me and my career, just
to remind you all, because I think there was one
person on that panel that had it in for him,
(36:03):
and maybe that person has retired.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
And also he's done great service to bees.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
That is so true. He makes money now exactly right,
exactly great service to Instagram. Yeah, m, you recently won
an award? Oh yeah, how much did you fight for that?
Speaker 1 (36:18):
Did you like celebrating this? You received an award on
Friday night, the next of the Best Award for Audio Talent? Yes,
are you guys jealous?
Speaker 3 (36:25):
And actually, as someone who only loses, we never got that.
My group texts look exactly like, this is a fucking joke.
And then if I was in that, I would go
and vernon what she done? What goes? Has a little
chat on a podcast?
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Would she write a letter to exactly?
Speaker 2 (36:41):
I do have some advice for David Beckham because there's
quite a lot of strategy that goes in into winning
an award. With this award, I had to nominate myself. Okay,
it's always a little bit awkward, but it's always good
to have someone say, hey, you should nominate yourself. So
I have someone on record saying you should nominate yourself.
So I've been telling everyone this person nominated me.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
I had to do it.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
And then you have to go through this whole application.
You have to make a sizzle on yourself. It's just
like videos of yourself, like looking really good at your job,
so he probably had to do that. He did all
his like strikes and stuff. Yeah, his documentary, so I'm
sure he would have had a great one.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
I write a good reference for someone who's nominated for awards.
I never get any, but I write a lot of
good references those who do.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
You didn't ask, can you nominate me for something?
Speaker 1 (37:29):
Yeah? Sure? Tell me what to nominate you for? Not
new Talent, your knighthood?
Speaker 4 (37:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (37:35):
Can I alloud us? Just look up an award that
I might win somewhere, because I really love winning an award.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
You know, I was looking up who's also a sir?
Sir Paul McCartney, Sir Elton John, Dame Judy Dench, Dave
Maggie Smith, Dame Edna Everage, Sir Donald Bradman, except I
think maybe day Medna Average damed herself. But some people
have rejected them for reasons of I guess politics. David
Bowie said no, Stephen Hawking said no. George Harrison another Beatle,
(38:03):
said no, but he said no. I love this so
micro petty because Paul McCartney got one, he's mad about that.
And Nigella Lawson declined an obe, which isn't quite the
same as a knighthood. She said, I'm not saving lives,
I'm just doing what I love.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
I'd like to get nominated and wing just so I
can say that.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
So do you know what he actually gets now that
he's a night Glory. He gets coat of arms.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
Oh wow, that's excited.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
I don't know what that means really. But he also
can get married if he wants to get married again,
renew his vows in the same place that Charles and
Diana got married.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
And Paul's ten years of petitioning just for those two things.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
If you have physically active friends or if you're active yourself,
you would have heard about the app Strava. Have you
guys had a bed? So it's a fitness tracker as
well as a social media app.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
What do you mean?
Speaker 2 (39:03):
So when you go on your runs? This is mainly
for runners. So when you go on your runs, you
can log in the Strava app, like what your pace was,
what your root was, what your heart rate was, and
then people can like it and comment on it.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
Some people do a root that looks like a penis.
Speaker 5 (39:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
I saw a guy who did a root that like
spelled out will you marry me? For his running.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
Do you win anything or do you get points?
Speaker 3 (39:26):
You get anything?
Speaker 1 (39:28):
That's what I want to know.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
Social media like Instagram.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
So there's a twenty six year old developer named Arthur
Bafard and he created a website. I think he's a
professional piss taker because he created a website called fake
My Run and it literally does exactly that. It lets
you generate completely fake but very believable running data, so
everything that Strava has, and lets you upload it into Strava,
(39:54):
so you can essentially fake runs that you've gone on.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
I like this very much.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
He said it was satire and a response to how
performative fitness tracking has become. And he's also said it's
come after the rise in Strava mules, which is what
people pay other people to do their runs for no way. Yeah,
so there are some guys who are getting like a
dollar per run or a dollar per kilometer.
Speaker 3 (40:19):
And simply not enough.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
It's so good, and then they just go on these
runs and then they log it through this other person's ass.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
So it's not the fitness thing, it's the flex of it. Yeah,
it's like, look at all the runs I've done.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
Outsourcing your runs.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
That's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
I reckon I could get you to outsource my runs
because you run.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
Only on a treadmill and.
Speaker 3 (40:37):
Is there that much clout in a run?
Speaker 2 (40:39):
You know, people who run are better than us.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
Yeah. I felt like when I was dating on a
dating app, it was all you had to do was
a selfie and new interactive way.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
Yeah, and you really have to do it because these
Strava meals are saying a lot of their clients are
just one offs, like they just won one good run
just to log it. Could just to show they can
do it even they can't.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
Could you not just go for drive?
Speaker 2 (40:59):
I remember, like years ago, like the og run influencer.
She was this Irish influencer who completely faked runs by
just driving because she would drive one kilometer, get out,
take a photo, and then try it the next kilometer.
It's smart, just very smart strategy.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
Thank you so much for joining us today, out louders
for listening to today's show, and our fabulous team for
putting this show together. Mother and Mia Studios are styled
with furniture from Fenton and Fenton. You can visit Fenton
and Fenton dot com dot au and we will be
back in your ears tomorrow Bye BYEYA shout out to.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
Any MoMA mia subscribers listening. If you love the show
and want to support us as well, subscribing to MoMA
mia is the very best way to do so. There
is a link in the episode description
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Welcome to Mumma out Loud. It is Monday, the sixteenth
of June. I'm Jesse Stevens, I'm mea Friedman.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
And I'm m Van m filling in for Holly And
on the.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Show today, everyone's talking about the only survivor of last
week's Air India one seven to one crash. So should
we all be booking seat eleven A on our next flight?
One of the worst trolls on the Internet has finally
had their identity revealed, but not before making millions of
dollars from hate and will we be able to resist
(00:50):
taking the drama bait that Sabrina Carpenter is serving with
her new album cover where she's on her knees having
her hair pulled. No, we're going in, but.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
First, in case you missed it, you might be wondering
why No King's protests erupted all over the US over
the weekend and what that has to do with a
very awkward military parade held in Washington.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Yeah, it was one of those things where I read
No King's protests, and I thought that they were connected
to last week's la riots, and I sort of no
one really explained what no kings meant.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Yeah, okay, so let's start at the beginning. Basically, President
Donald Trump finally held a military parade, which he's wanted
to do for ages. Talked about that at the beginning
of his first term, that it's something he wanted to do.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
They do it in North Korea, and he's a big
fan of Kim Jong Russia.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Putin also loves the military parade.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Aren't military is quite busy?
Speaker 3 (01:50):
You would think that they have better things to do.
So the celebration of the US Army's two hundred and
fiftieth anniversary just coincidentally coincided with Trump's seventy ninth birthday.
And at the estimated cost of forty five million US
dollars that's about sixty nine million Australian dollars, this is
at a time when the American economy is under a
(02:11):
lot of scrutiny, and it's just a lot of spending.
He had tanks and soldiers parade down the streets of Washington.
So the event happened over the weekend, and he said.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
Time and again, America's enemies have learned that if you
threatened the American people, our soldiers are coming for you,
your defeat will be certain, your demise will be final,
and your downfall will be total and complete.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
He then threatened America's enemies, and he walked up the
stage to chance of USA USA.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
So with this parade, I'm confused on who it was
actually four because it felt like a big celebration of America.
But yet it also felt like I was trying to
tell the rest of the world something.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
That's such a good point. It felt like a show,
like a point was being made about the strength of
the American military, which historically does it tasting. The last
time something like this happened was in the early nineties
and it was to signify the end of the Gulf War.
It was just unclear why you would just have this
military show.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
I mean, Trump loves these displays of authoritarianism, and it's
like from his gold toilet to it's king behavior. It's
king behavior, it's giving king behavior.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
It's really hard with reports, right because obviously there's inherent
bias on both sides. But I tried to look objectively,
and it does seem like the parade was set up
for a lot of spectators and that there were sort
of maybe ten thousand.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
It looked like the tek toks were so cringe like
you could just see the tanks going down the street
and it's complete silence.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Yeah, it did seem a little bit awkward. And to
contrast with that, it did seem like they anticipated a
certain amount of spectators and that many people didn't show up,
which brings us to the protests. Literally millions of people
in the US turned out to No King's protests all
over the country, opposing not just the military parade, but
Trump's totalitarian approach to his presidencies and the excesses. And
(04:04):
also it's called No Kings because in seventeen seventy six,
as Hamilton fans will know, America decided that they were
separate from the monarchy, unlike Australia, unlike Canada. They said,
we do not want a king like independence and democracy
and freedom is foundational to the US. So for someone
to come in and behave like a king is so
(04:25):
anti American in a way that clearly has riled a
lot of Americans.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Are well, it used to be. I don't know if
it still is, and I mean I just kept thinking
Trump will be stoked at the idea that he's a king.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Yeah right, even the yeah, oh you think I'm a king.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Yeah, it's like, yeah, I'm king. And funnily enough, the
Trooping of the Color, which is the big parade in
the UK that is overseen by the actual king being
Charles Now, I mean probably the footage that you saw
of that was Louis pulling faces because he is MVP
of the royal family. So the no King's protests had
(05:02):
nothing to do with the ice raids and the immigration protests,
so they in LA last week.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
They are somewhat related because a lot of the people
who showed up are also going the immigration policies are
and overreach. They're saying that's not something that and there's
a lot of questions about that, like the bill, and
so people went in solidarity for what's happening all over
the US. But literally millions in all of these capital
cities went and protested, and Trump kind of warned that
(05:28):
anyone who protested in Washington would face the full extent
of the law and blah blah blah. But it felt
significant because there is so much unrest globally, and it
was like the US was saying, we are putting our
foot down. These were the biggest protests against Trump ever,
and they were saying, we want to defend out democracy.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
The last time we saw such big protests across the
US and in fact across the world was after he
was first elected in twenty sixteen. Do you remember the
Women's March when everyone was wearing those pink pussy hats.
I went on a Sydney version of one. There were
that helped a lot. I'm glad I did that. I
think that there's something Protests don't necessarily make actual change,
(06:06):
but if you've ever been to one, there's something very
cathartic about feeling that you are actually doing something, even
if it's not going to change anything. And I mean,
you know, me marching down a street with my daughter
and my mum and thousands of other women in Sydney
certainly wasn't going to change the election of Donald Trump,
or in fact the reelection of Donald Trump. But there's
(06:27):
something about being with like minded people that I don't know.
I like a protest. It was also a peaceful protest.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
It was also enormously symbolic because this military one was
happening at a time where citizens were saying, look at
how many people turned up to this this kind of
maga event, and this is how many people are opposing it,
even though most recent there was a poll done recently
and most Americans are in support of the immigration policies,
(06:54):
like they look unpopular because of how unpopular they are
in California, but most Americans are just like, yeah, we
need to crack down on immigration.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Popstars Sabrina Carpenter, who I once heard described as that
former child star who wears no pants and likes to
get raded, released what may or may not be the
cover of her new album on the weekend, and if
you're a woman on the internet, you are legally obliged
to have an opinion about it. So here we are, Okay.
The photo is of her if you haven't seen it,
in a short black dress and heels, kneeling on all
(07:25):
fours with a man standing in front of her. You
can't see his face.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Could be a woman en trousers.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Oh, could be this person who looks like a man
in suit pants is pulling her hair as if they're pulling.
He's got a fist full of hair, fistful of hair
and it's like he's pulling her up while she looks
at the camera hornly.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Kind of like a dog on alish.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Yeah, And then the next photo is of an actual
dog with a dog tag saying Man's best Friend, which
is the name of her album I think Anyway. She
also released her first single from the album called Manchild,
which sounds like this colon. Now that film clip is
(08:18):
all about her hitchhiking and some like denim underpants with
all these unsuitable guys and look Serena Carpenter. Her brand
is all sort of about sassy girlishness, a bit like
pollypocket meets brat dolls.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Yep, sexy baby.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Sexy baby, and what she does is actually some very
funny things with her lyrics. She uses humor a lot
in her music. So my favorite lyrics from Manchild is
why so sexy? If so dumb? And how survived the
earth so long? If I'm not there, it won't get done.
I choose to blame your mum.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
Now.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
The question, of course, is when is a photo about
female submission subversive and ironic and when is it just
a bit yuck? Some people are shouting don't kink shame.
Let the girl be submissive if she wants to be.
Some are shouting, this looks like domestic violence, glamour porn.
Others are shouting, wait until the whole album and cover
art comes out, don't judge too soon. And of course,
(09:12):
just like when any woman does a controversial thing, some
people are calling it the death of feminism. So are
we all just falling for rage bait? I'm so tired. Yes,
it is rage bait, and talk us through.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
I made the mistake of publicly talking about this a
bit too early on, and I got a lot of.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Hate for it.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
What position did you take?
Speaker 2 (09:33):
I took the position of I've been a huge, huge
Sabrina Carpenter fan. I've loved everything she does. She even
does like sex positions on her stage when she's performing.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Still a big fan of that.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
When I saw this artwork, it deeply upset me, and
I was trying to figure out what about it made
me so upset, And I think it's quite straightforward to me.
I think her doing that position I would be fine with.
It's the man in the photo that has made me
really upset, and I think it's gone from her constantly
(10:07):
saying like being female in power and having all of
these songs that are pretty much like, don't deal with
shitty men, You're better than that. And it would always
contrast with what she was wearing and the look she
put out there, and I'd still get it, Like, I
still thought it was quite empowering. But then this album
cover is not empowering to me. It just feels degrading.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Here's my question, because the criticism is pandering to the
male gaze and she's on all fours. Have you ever
met a male Sabrina Carpenter fan who's not a queer man,
like if she's really pandering to the straight male gaze,
because I don't know any of them who listened to
her music, like Sabrina Carpenter and her team know who
her audience is.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Yeah, but that's we have internalized the male gaze so
much as women that that's not a new thing. So
you know, Britney Spears didn't have a lot of straight
male fans, but she would wear a little sexy school
girl uniform. It's been that way since the dawn of time,
that as straight women, we've internalized what the male gaze
is like the Kardashians. Men don't buy the Kardashians products,
(11:08):
but they are very male gaze coded. So this is
to me very male gaze coded. But some people say, well,
what about if submission is your thing?
Speaker 3 (11:20):
To that, I say, I don't think there is anything
submissive about Sabrina Carpenter. If you watch her shows on stage,
as you say, am, it's about sex positions. Her lyrics
are about.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Her being in control, her.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Being in control, and even this, I think there's more
to it. I think it's a bit of a cop
out when celebrities are like, this is only one bit,
and it's like, no, this does stand alone as a
cultural tech.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
I think we can criticize this without hearing the whole album.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
I completely agree. And if we do discover that it
zooms out and that that man has the face of
Sabrina Carpenter, you still bait at us, ye, like you did. Well,
it's clickbait, right, yeah, that's exactly what they're doing. But
I know that she's on on fours and stuff. But
the name of the album being man Best Friend, which
is a dog, which is a bitch? Like is she
playing with bitch? And is she playing with and a
(12:05):
lot of the lyrics as well. Is she kind of
meant to be severing a lot of what we think
about the submissive woman. And I can see that being
playful and fun in the same way. I was watching
the Alex Cooper documentary and like when she talks about
blowjobs on.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Stage, the gluck gluck nine thousand, exactly.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
She's not pandering to the male gaze. Just because women
are doing something sexual or talking about sex doesn't mean
they're trying to get railed, as the Internet says.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Sorr when the Internet was talking about being railed. Being
railed is not a negative thing. Being railed doesn't imply
necessarily a lack of consent, to my understanding. It's more
that she's very sex positive, so hence they're doing the
sex positions in her concerts. And that's been one of
these things that hopefully this there's a long history of
child stars trying to shock their fans out of seeing
(12:57):
them in a different way.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
The Disney Star sort of one eighty.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Yeah, and maybe this is going to be the death
knell in women saying, or mothers particularly saying, I took
my child to the Sabrina Carpenter concert or the you
know chapel rone concert or whatever, and she swore and
I don't like that. And it's like when we started
seeing it was kind of around Taylor Swift that we
started seeing female pop stars as something for little girls.
(13:23):
And probably that's not a good thing.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
But I still think she has some sort of responsibility
here because she is selling tickets to young girls.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Yeah, but it's not like she's not a wiggle. If
people want to bring their young girls and the people
that buy tickets for young girls are their mothers, that's
up to the parents. She's not parenting a generation of children.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
Do you think though, that this image as well, there's
Sabrina Carpenter aesthetic, which is the blonde, the short, the
very made up, has become almost like Maga coded. And
I'm thinking this with Sidney Sweeney too, is that in
Trump's America, when women's rights are being wound back and
(14:04):
when women do feel like they are being pushed into
an oppressed, submissive position, that this isn't funny anymore, that
this isn't fair.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Yeah, that's interesting. Her lyrics don't say that. So in
some ways her appearance is a trojan horse because she
looks this way, but then she subverts your expectations because
she doesn't sing about being a trad wife, not.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Unlike Dolly Putton. Yes, like the same thing where it's
kind of the boobs, and but then it's like, do
we just I mean the thing about don't judge an
album by its cover or whatever. Again, this was released
as a cultural text and maybe the discussion and if
this is even a trojan horse to just get us
all to listen to her music, which is presenting a
different image than I get that, but I do think
(14:44):
this is being read differently in an America that feels
under threat.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Coming back to saying straight men aren't fans of Sbrina Carpet,
I agree. I don't think a lot of them are,
but they still follow her. Every guy I've dated has
followed Sabrina Carpenter on Instagram. Interesting and I do not
suggest anyone go down this rabbit hole, but I went
down a full reddit rabbit hole that was connected to
a Twitter account that was connected to another subreddit. Of
these men who just get the privilege of looking at
(15:12):
this image and making comments like can't wait to add
this to the wank bank. Oh, I was going to say,
and do you think these men care that we're having
this discussion on whether this is female empowerment or not.
They just get permission to look at a photo like that,
and they also get permission from the women around them
to say, this is empowering. You can do that.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Bitches love it when you pull their hair, and some do.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
And I think that is where the harmful aspect of
it comes from.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
This is where I struggle. It's not her responsibility. Where
is it written that pop stars have to be role models?
Who said that to Mick Jagger? Who said that to
the Beatles? Like, no one expects that of men.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
But in a time I see what I'm saying, in
a time when it does feel like women's rights and
autonomy are under threat. If I saw this on a
billboard in the US right now, how would I feel?
I would feel like, oh God, that's not helping. Like
it doesn't feel in a world of Billie Eilish's and
Chapel Roan's and even.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
The case that's happening with Sean Combs where alleged we're
seeing footage of him dragging Cassie by the hair to
allegedly assault her. It's just not the time, It's.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Not countercultural, its cultural?
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Yeah right in a moment, one of Australia's most famous
influencers hired a private investigator, and I'm going to tell
you what she discovered. Two somewhat related stories this week,
emerging from the bowels of the internet, which is where
I hang out after ten pm and a dodgy curry.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
The first is that Australian influencer Indie Clinton, she's got
more than two million followers on TikTok. She hired a
private investigator to identify her online trolls. What you need
to know about Indie Clinton is that she is a
content creator. She has three little kids. She had a
first kid at twenty two, and she posts a lot
about the chaos and the mess and the reality of
(17:01):
having little kids. That's kind of her shtick. Do you
remember we spoke about Clinton a few months ago when
it came to she'd had a nose job. I think
she was saying it was for health reasons, and she
received a lot of backlash and after that, trolling intensified
and she just went, I'm going to find out who
these people are who are having a go at me.
So over the weekend, she shared a video holding a
(17:23):
sixty four page DOSSI are full of information, apparently, including
their Australian business numbers, where they gave birth, their tattoo designs,
and even the name of their gynecologist.
Speaker 5 (17:36):
Many of you are mothers, which I think is most
surprising to me because I'm like, oh my god, I
literally know every detail, down to your abn and down
to where you gave birth at hospital. Another beautiful troll
of mine, you regret your evil eyes tatoo you got
when you were eighteen. You know what I regret a
tatoo I got when I was eighteen two. I have
(17:57):
a moon, but I feel like with an evil eye,
it's meant to look after you. But I guess if
you're trolling, it's not going to do that.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
Yeah, that's all. It's good research, but it's also like,
isn't health information privileged?
Speaker 1 (18:12):
I just kind of went on, I've just been the
name of their gynecologists, not like their records, presumably, although I.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Don't think that anyone should know whether or not I
went to the gynocologist in the last week. I feel
like that's weird. Anyway. She discovered that most of her
trolls were mothers. Doesn't surprise anyone. No, that surprised me.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Yeah. So the reason this didn't surprise me at all
is that so often when you look at trolls, and
when we say trolls, we don't mean just someone who
leaves one nasty comment. It's someone who has a pattern
of you know, online storkreuse behavior almost or obsessive behavior
about particular individuals, and it invariably turns out that that
(18:52):
person has similarities with the person that they're trolling. I'll
give you another example, Probably the most famous case of
this is Lindy West two in twenty fifteen. She's a
body positive activist, feminist author. She gets trolled a huge amount,
and back then, Achille, back then, she was pretty used
(19:13):
to it. You know, there were people who called her
all sorts of names every single day. But then her
father died and there was this person who opened a
fake account under her father's name on Twitter and was
posting about the location six feet under you know, ashamed
of my fat pig of a daughter, like horrible, horrible things.
And Lindy, the instruction that you're always given, the advice
(19:36):
you're always given, is don't feed the trolls. Don't retweet them,
don't mention them, don't reply to them. Just block them,
report them, block them, report them. And she chose to
speak about this, and she wrote about it and how
deeply hurt she'd been by this particular troll. And one
day he wrote to her and he just said, it's me.
(19:56):
I'm the person, and this is my real name. I've
emailed you from three different email accounts. I'm ashamed of
what I did. The reason that I've done it is
because you seem really happy with your elf and your weight,
and I'm not. He was overweight, he hated himself. And
she ended up interviewing him on an episode of This
(20:17):
American Life and again and again. And I know a
number of people who found their trolls, who found out
who they were, and they always tend to be someone
within their sphere. So, for example, if Indy Clinton makes
content about motherhood, it's another mother. If it's someone who
makes content about beauty, it might be a beauty journalist
(20:37):
or someone who wants to be a beauty influencer. They're
within that realm.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
And look, Indy Clinton has said that while she won't
be sharing the names of any of these trolls. She
wants them to know that they are not anonymous, which
brings us to another massive story out of the UK
this week regarding a site called Tattle. We've agonized for
years about whether or not to talk about Tattle on
this show because we know that when we say that word,
(21:06):
it sends people there, and we do not want people
going to this like disgust sewer, cruel sewer of the internet,
because basically it is this forum where people bitch about influencers.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
And anyone in the public eye, but mostly women.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
Yes, mostly women. And we're going to get in a
sect to the difference between saying I don't agree with
what she did and what happens on Tattle. But anyway,
an Irish couple recently sued Tattle and uncovered the creator,
who is a plant based recipe influencer, an author named
Sebastian Bond, a man. It's a man and influencer in fact,
and an influencer. There was a fine that went with it,
(21:43):
but basically we've learned that this man has made a
lot of money off adds on Tattle because he just
went this is a place for hate on the Internet. Great,
I can monetize it well. Tattle says that it's a
place for commentary and critiques of people who choose to
monetize their personal life as a business and release it
into the public domain. In reality, what happens is that
people get defamed, bullied, and even doxed. So they're threatened, threatened,
(22:06):
their address gets leaked, the school of their children gets leaked,
and what that means, Like, it doesn't sound like that
bigger thing, but if you think about how many people
hate Indy Clinton and then someone puts her address on
the Internet, that actually puts her in real danger. And
I have had a look there for stories that I
wrote on the site. I haven't touched it since, but
(22:29):
what has shocked me is that it might start off
as something that maybe is a vale critique, and then
it goes down into fifty pages on how this person
is a terrible mother and her children should be taken
from her. Like it, it is so much about motherhood
as well, which I think comes back to an appearance
and appearance exactly right, em what do these two stories
(22:51):
teach us? Do they really teach us that the Internet
isn't an anonymous place after all?
Speaker 2 (22:56):
I kind of hope so, like when I heard about
the Indie Clinton story, it made me quite hopeful for
not just trolls, but just like any form of anonymous comment.
I find that anonymous comments, especially when you're in the
public eye, such a cowardly thing to do. And I
make it a point that if someone critiques me and
it's constructive critiques and they have their name on it,
(23:18):
I will always reply.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
I will always what's the difference between a constructive critique
and someone a troll?
Speaker 2 (23:25):
A troll would be someone who's just like for example,
when I talked about the spreena Carpeenter stuff, someone commented, Oh,
you just hate women and you're such a prude, you're
fucking bitch. Yeah, right, and then I go into their
profile and it's like no profile picture, like fake name
versus a critique. Was like, I really heard what you
said on that, this is what I think. I think
you're wrong, And I'm like, Okaya.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
Faith, you're less. I got myse' nice, get your set.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
It didn't call me ugly, you're very respectful. It was nice.
But the tattle thing I made the mistake of going
on title when I was very young, like I was
probably twenty one, and I just went down this hole
because it's actually so wild how people can just be
like it's so easy to see how people can be
on their twenty four to seven.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Every single day. It's a community.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
These people who hate themselves.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
People are not just so sad. And it doesn't even
make it like there's nothing constructive about it. You'll just
get like a title, for example, You'll just see a
title saying Emily Vernon, and then underneath will be just
like thread after thread after threads. It'll be like Emily Venum,
looks Emily Venamma Emily, And it's just like, how.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Is it kind of started setting that that if you
read it, I don't know how you would go on
without those things imprinted in your brain.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
I mean, the real world impact. People sort of throw
around the ideas of mental health, but the Internet for
a lot of us is our workplace, and I don't know,
we're not programmed to be able to deal with knowing
what everybody thinks about you. It's a very modern dilemma
that biology hasn't caught up with yet. I know. Lee
(25:00):
Campbell wrote about it on her Stories on the Weekend.
She also has had lawyers involved to find people who
had harassed her through tattle, and she's got all of
their d She sent cease and desist letters to them.
She's also chosen not to make their names public. But
just be aware if you visit these sites and you
comment on them alone, if you own them, it is
(25:21):
coming for you. You know, you won't be protected by
anonymity anymore.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
You know. What is interesting, though, is that the worst
trolling I have seen and received is from people who
didn't even try to be anonymous. So it's like the
tattle of it all seeps into Internet speak and seeps
into how we all treat each other, like there are
people with real Often I get a message and I
(25:47):
think that can't possibly be from a real person. You
look at it and it is their real account, And
what can any of us do. I'm not going to
sue anyone, probably for defamation, no matter how many hundreds
of thousands of people they pose something to. The only
thing you can do is kind of ignore it.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
But that's not true. You can actually see them, you can,
and more and more people are choosing to do that.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Yeah, but anonymity isn't the only problem here. It's the discourse,
it's the tone, it's the way that you go people
on the Internet. I think TikTok's made even way.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Don't you think. Also we've turned cruelty into performance.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
So into content.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
People have always thought awful things, right Like, I'm not
saying I think awful things. I'll look at someone, or
i'll see someone, or I'll flick past something and I'll
have an uncharitable thought. Not all the time, sometimes I
will stays in my head. The difference is the Internet,
and anonymity on the Internet has allowed us, you know,
both anonymously and under our names, to perform that cruelty
(26:39):
for collaps for likes, for engagement, for validation, for something
to do, for the little hit you get from people
agreeing with you.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
What's difficult, too, is that what starts as valid criticism
because there is part of the tattle ethos that I think,
all right, so if someone is a public figure, I
do believe I mean, of course we believe it. We
sit here and we just talked about Sabrina Carpenter's album cover,
and we have an understanding of what we think is
helpful or fair discourse. And you play the idea rather
than the person as much as you can, so you
(27:11):
go criticisms allowed. It's a democracy. But what's difficult when
it comes to the subject of women is that it
will inevitably quickly just turn. It just turns, and you
watch it turn into this incredibly personal sexist The irony
that this was created by a man and upheld by
women is so sad that the patriarchy is embedded in
(27:33):
all of this, because what do we do. We call
women ugly, we call them bad mothers, We undermine them
in a way that we don't men. Go and try
and find the threat about a man, you can't.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
The one person I was thinking about all weekend is
a man named vishuas Kumar Ramesh, who was the sole
survivor of a plane crash that happened in Ahmadabad, India
on Thursday.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Did you see the footage of him? It was surreal,
just like walking through the streets he.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Walked out of the crash.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
I read.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
I came in this morning and was speaking to you
about it, and like I read every story about this
over the weekend.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Not one because I'm scared of flying. Shout out to
all the out louders who were scared of flying. I
don't know whether you should be cheered by this story.
Probably not because it involves a plane crash and it's
tragic because everybody else on the plane died. But anyway,
tell us about this guy.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
The one question I had about his survival was how
So what we know is that it was an Air
India flight that was bound for London and it crashed
into a hostile block shortly after take off, like and
it was like a seconds.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Yeah, it was a medical hostile yeah, so it was
people training to be doctors and stuff.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
And it killed two hundred and forty one passengers and
crew on board, as well as people on the ground.
So far, it's been reported that the total number of
debts is two hundred and ninety. It's a bit close
to home because the exact same aircraft had actually flown
out from Melbourne to Deli just four days before the crash. So,
as we said, Rameshtans just survived the crash, but he
(29:01):
was actually reported walking out of it, and there's video
footage of that as well. And I feel like when
one of these things happen, it's so traed and so shocking.
But all everyone wants to know is how did he survive?
Speaker 1 (29:15):
What seat was he in?
Speaker 2 (29:16):
That's the thing. So I looked this up and I
used to do a lot of work in SEO, and
I saw that the search term eleven A seat was
trending like crazy the day after the crash happened, because
that's the seat that Ramesh was sitting in. So he
was seated in eleven A, which is the emergency exit seat,
and he reported that he was able to push open
(29:38):
the door, kick open the door and walk out of
the plane. So he said, when the door broke and
I saw there was some space, I tried to get
out of there and I did. No one could have
gotten out from the opposite side, which was towards the
wall because it had crashed there. I managed to unbuckle myself,
use my legs to push through that opening and crawled out.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Oh my goodness. That is because afterwards he was interviewed
and he sort of didn't even know what happen.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
It was like in his hospital bed and yeah, people
with microphones rather as yeah. So everyone's asking should I
now be booking eleven A on every plane I go
to from my holidays And the answer is no. So
it was only the safest seat. And I have to
talk about my dad here because my dad and I
talked about this a lot because he's an ex pilot
(30:24):
and he has a lot of friends who fly for India.
And the thing with plane crashes is that it takes
so much investigative work that goes into it after a
plane crash, because we're in twenty twenty five and it's
still very much one of those situations where it shouldn't
be happening.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
It's so and we should say it is so. So
rest plane was.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Absolutely rare, and they put so much work into it,
so we'd only get like an initial report three months
after and then we'll get like a final report like
one to two years after, because that's how.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Much work goes. It's speculation.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
It's speculation. I think right now they discovered one out
of the two black boxes in the plane, and the
black boss just has all the logs so they can
see what went down as well as like radio communication.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
So what does your dad think happened?
Speaker 2 (31:08):
So the thing my dad, he doesn't want to speculate
because he says the reason why plane crashes are so
rare because every time a plane crash happens, they do
everything they can to make sure it doesn't happen again,
which makes each plane crash quite unique. So it's actually
quite problematic that this trend of seats eleven a is
trending because it's actually not true, like that is not
(31:28):
the safest seat.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
It happens to be safest seat in that particular plane
on that particular day in the way that particular crash happened.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Like everything has to be so unique that it can't
be replicated. There have been studies, though, so to put
everyone's mind at ease. So a twenty fifteen time analysis
found that sitting within five rows of an exit row
you have more chances of surviving. There was also a
National Transportation Safety Board study that studied twenty crashes since
nineteen seventy one, and they said that the rear third
(31:58):
of the plane, particularly the middle seat, has the lowest
fatality rates. My dad was like, everyone needs when you
sit on a plane, everyone needs to put their devices
down and listen to this safety instructions. That is the
only es anymore.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
My dad.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
You should see him on flights. He looks at people,
he taps people on the shoulders and put your phone down,
watch the safety flight. No one does it anymore. And
when you're in that circumstance of going through a plane crash,
you don't remember it. Even if you went on a
flight yesterday, You'll only remember what you saw just twenty
seconds before it happened, which is exactly what happened. This
was plane crashed eleven seconds after I took off.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
After the break a change of pace arise to David.
We have some scarrelous gossip about why David Beckham finally
got a knighthood and what this means in the context
of his family drama.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
What unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday
and Thursday exclusively for Mum and Maya subscribers. Follow the
link in the show notes to get us in your
ears five days a week, and a huge thank you
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Speaker 1 (33:04):
Finally, that photo of a night that David Beckham has
had on his vision board for years has off. I'm
a crowd, I feel really emotional. Well, he's done more
than manifested because on the weekend it was announced that
he's officially going to be Sir David Beckham and Victoria
will officially be Lady Posh.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
And the first thing a lot of people will think
when they hear this news is how is that man
already not a Knight?
Speaker 5 (33:30):
Right?
Speaker 3 (33:30):
He seems like night material He's he is, Sir David
Beckham already.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Well not technically, but this will be a recognition of
services to sport and to charity something something football. Now
the ceremony is going to be in a few months.
Wasn't on the weekend, but good news, Jesse. You're right.
Recipients are entitled to use their new title as soon
as it's announced.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Can I tell you this is one of my Roman empires?
Is how badly David Beckham has always wanted a knighthood.
So twenty thirteen he did a kicker and intercept that
was a big deal. No one cares he bent it
like hevented like Beckham did. Yeap, And he's in an
interview with Jonathan Ross on ITV and Jonathan Ross says
a lot of people said, you deserve a knighthood for
that kick? Yeah, tis donna highest do Honnor. Don't you
(34:10):
think you deserve the knighthood? And he was like, oh,
stop it, I don't deserve that. I'm happy that I've
got my order of something something England. He has something
else anyway, emails revealed that that question was asked because
David Beckham's people asked Donathan Ross to ask that question
and Jonathan Ross, can you please also say you think
(34:30):
he should have one? No, that's so good, he.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Emails from David's people.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
Yeah, then what happens is he doesn't get one. And
then in twenty fourteen he doesn't get one and leaked
messages within his PR team and this was, look, we
should say, this is scaraliscossip. We're not proud of how
we know this, but it was. It was leaked, and
we didn't read it on tatle that we did not
read it on tattle. He's in the script chat with
his PR team and he describes the honors committee as
(34:54):
a bunch of cunts and he said that it's an
effing joke. And then this is my favorite part, is
that he then starts going after other people that got
a knighthood, such as a woman named Catherine Jenkins, who
he said was just honored because she was singing at
the rug Bee. She's an opera singer. He was actually
kind of a big deal, but he got quite petty.
And then the back and forth goes with his people
(35:17):
like at this point. I don't even know how we
know this, but they're like, look, David, our recommendation is
we could send out a petty comment because at that
point he wanted them to make a statement about how
unfair it was, and they're like, we reckon, just like
stay with the unisef like, let's just keep So there's
this kind of joke that he's like, I've got to
do more fucking charity work to get this editing knighthood.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
And he had to go and stand in line to
visit the queen.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
Yeah, she was lying.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
He still didn't get it.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
Then he still didn't get it. He has played the
long game, and there is something so relatable to me
about how desperately this man wants a knighthood. He's finally
got it. I think he had to do beck he
had to do the doco. I reckon. The doco was
the last kind of I'm going to do the best
doc I've ever made about me and my career, just
to remind you all, because I think there was one
person on that panel that had it in for him,
(36:03):
and maybe that person has retired.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
And also he's done great service to bees.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
That is so true. He makes money now exactly right,
exactly great service to Instagram. Yeah, m, you recently won
an award? Oh yeah, how much did you fight for that?
Speaker 1 (36:18):
Did you like celebrating this? You received an award on
Friday night, the next of the Best Award for Audio Talent? Yes,
are you guys jealous?
Speaker 3 (36:25):
And actually, as someone who only loses, we never got that.
My group texts look exactly like, this is a fucking joke.
And then if I was in that, I would go
and vernon what she done? What goes? Has a little
chat on a podcast?
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Would she write a letter to exactly?
Speaker 2 (36:41):
I do have some advice for David Beckham because there's
quite a lot of strategy that goes in into winning
an award. With this award, I had to nominate myself. Okay,
it's always a little bit awkward, but it's always good
to have someone say, hey, you should nominate yourself. So
I have someone on record saying you should nominate yourself.
So I've been telling everyone this person nominated me.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
I had to do it.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
And then you have to go through this whole application.
You have to make a sizzle on yourself. It's just
like videos of yourself, like looking really good at your job,
so he probably had to do that. He did all
his like strikes and stuff. Yeah, his documentary, so I'm
sure he would have had a great one.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
I write a good reference for someone who's nominated for awards.
I never get any, but I write a lot of
good references those who do.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
You didn't ask, can you nominate me for something?
Speaker 1 (37:29):
Yeah? Sure? Tell me what to nominate you for? Not
new Talent, your knighthood?
Speaker 4 (37:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (37:35):
Can I alloud us? Just look up an award that
I might win somewhere, because I really love winning an award.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
You know, I was looking up who's also a sir?
Sir Paul McCartney, Sir Elton John, Dame Judy Dench, Dave
Maggie Smith, Dame Edna Everage, Sir Donald Bradman, except I
think maybe day Medna Average damed herself. But some people
have rejected them for reasons of I guess politics. David
Bowie said no, Stephen Hawking said no. George Harrison another Beatle,
(38:03):
said no, but he said no. I love this so
micro petty because Paul McCartney got one, he's mad about that.
And Nigella Lawson declined an obe, which isn't quite the
same as a knighthood. She said, I'm not saving lives,
I'm just doing what I love.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
I'd like to get nominated and wing just so I
can say that.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
So do you know what he actually gets now that
he's a night Glory. He gets coat of arms.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
Oh wow, that's excited.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
I don't know what that means really. But he also
can get married if he wants to get married again,
renew his vows in the same place that Charles and
Diana got married.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
And Paul's ten years of petitioning just for those two things.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
If you have physically active friends or if you're active yourself,
you would have heard about the app Strava. Have you
guys had a bed? So it's a fitness tracker as
well as a social media app.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
What do you mean?
Speaker 2 (39:03):
So when you go on your runs? This is mainly
for runners. So when you go on your runs, you
can log in the Strava app, like what your pace was,
what your root was, what your heart rate was, and
then people can like it and comment on it.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
Some people do a root that looks like a penis.
Speaker 5 (39:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
I saw a guy who did a root that like
spelled out will you marry me? For his running.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
Do you win anything or do you get points?
Speaker 3 (39:26):
You get anything?
Speaker 1 (39:28):
That's what I want to know.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
Social media like Instagram.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
So there's a twenty six year old developer named Arthur
Bafard and he created a website. I think he's a
professional piss taker because he created a website called fake
My Run and it literally does exactly that. It lets
you generate completely fake but very believable running data, so
everything that Strava has, and lets you upload it into Strava,
(39:54):
so you can essentially fake runs that you've gone on.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
I like this very much.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
He said it was satire and a response to how
performative fitness tracking has become. And he's also said it's
come after the rise in Strava mules, which is what
people pay other people to do their runs for no way. Yeah,
so there are some guys who are getting like a
dollar per run or a dollar per kilometer.
Speaker 3 (40:19):
And simply not enough.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
It's so good, and then they just go on these
runs and then they log it through this other person's ass.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
So it's not the fitness thing, it's the flex of it. Yeah,
it's like, look at all the runs I've done.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
Outsourcing your runs.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
That's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
I reckon I could get you to outsource my runs
because you run.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
Only on a treadmill and.
Speaker 3 (40:37):
Is there that much clout in a run?
Speaker 2 (40:39):
You know, people who run are better than us.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
Yeah. I felt like when I was dating on a
dating app, it was all you had to do was
a selfie and new interactive way.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
Yeah, and you really have to do it because these
Strava meals are saying a lot of their clients are
just one offs, like they just won one good run
just to log it. Could just to show they can
do it even they can't.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
Could you not just go for drive?
Speaker 2 (40:59):
I remember, like years ago, like the og run influencer.
She was this Irish influencer who completely faked runs by
just driving because she would drive one kilometer, get out,
take a photo, and then try it the next kilometer.
It's smart, just very smart strategy.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
Thank you so much for joining us today, out louders
for listening to today's show, and our fabulous team for
putting this show together. Mother and Mia Studios are styled
with furniture from Fenton and Fenton. You can visit Fenton
and Fenton dot com dot au and we will be
back in your ears tomorrow Bye BYEYA shout out to.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
Any MoMA mia subscribers listening. If you love the show
and want to support us as well, subscribing to MoMA
mia is the very best way to do so. There
is a link in the episode description
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