June 8, 2025 • 16 mins
Outlouders, we’ve unlocked a juicy bonus episode for your long weekend listening pleasure. Why? Because Jessie drops some absolute gold in this one, and it’s simply too good to gatekeep.
Are you that friend—the one who always pays the bill, then simmers in silent rage while your mates mysteriously 'forget' to transfer their share? The one who’d rather sell a kidney than send a “Hey, can you pay me back?” text?
Congrats, you might be a money pushover. But don’t worry—today’s episode is basically therapy. One brave Outlouder shares her tale of financial frustration, and Jessie serves up a no-cringe guide to getting your money back without spiralling into an anxiety pit.
PLUS: What do you do when your name becomes... a meme? Listener Karen has a full-blown identity crisis, and we have thoughts. Spoiler: changing your name isn’t off the table.
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What To Listen To Next:
- Listen to our latest episode: A Famous Mother & A Treacherous Daughter
- Listen: "We're Having A Baby #SPONCON"
- Listen: Khloe Kardashian And A Cheating Scandal
- Listen: The Lick Ick & The Patron Saint of Betrayed Women
- Listen: We Need To Debrief On 'And Just Like That' Season Three, Ep One
- Listen: Harry, Brooklyn And The Epidemic of Family Estrangement
- Listen to Parenting Out Loud: Grandparents — It's Time for Your Performance Review
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
You're listening to Amma Mia podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges the
traditional owners of land and warders that this podcast is
recorded on Hello out louders, it's Hollywayen right here. I
know that you'll be celebrating the King's birthday, because honestly,
who isn't. But if you feel like listening to a
little bit about loud today, we're dropping you something a
bit special for the public holiday. We're dropping you one
(00:32):
of our subscriber only episodes as a little treat so
you can get a taste of what goes on for subscribers.
This episode has got listener dilemmas in it, and I
promise you one in particular is so helpful. It's going
to change your group dynamic. Anytime you're out for dinner
and somebody's like, I'll drop you that money, or do
I have to pay for your cocktail? Jesse has great
(00:55):
masterclass in getting what's owed to you without dying of embarrassment.
And then we hear from a woman named Karen who's
wondering if she should actually change her name. On our
subscriber episodes, we cover all kinds of conversations from dilemmas
to dissections of TV shows, to the things we think
are a little bit too private to have on the
main show. So if you enjoyed this peak behind the curtain,
there's plenty more where that came from. And there's a
(01:17):
link in our show notes for you to become a
subscriber if you choose enjoy. Hello, out Louders, Jesse and
I are playing agony ants today. There needs to be
a better term for that. I called you for agony ant.
I bet Dolly Alderton doesn't call herself an agony ann,
does she?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
We're wise witches or something.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
We're wise witches. Dear Holly and Jesse. We're calling this
and out Louders have got some good dilemmas for us.
Here we go. Hi, my name is Karen. Obviously everyone
thinks they know me. My name was chosen by my
American dad with love and care and over all other
baby names my mum wanted. He has now passed and
it is something I will always have that he gifted
(01:56):
to me. But we went bowling as a family the
other day and I entered my name on the screen
above the bowling lanes and the family next door with
tweens could not stop laughing. Oh. At my school, I'm
a primary school teacher. We had a fundraising wig day
and a family sent their child in a helmet esque
style wig. And when I remarked on such a fabulous wig,
(02:18):
the seven year old said she was a Karen due
to her behavior and haircut. Students at my school loudly
denounce their friends as Karen's a friend who may not
be my friend anymore. Asked if I was ashamed or
embarrassed about my name now that it's used as an insult,
and every time I need to ask for a help
or a service now, I'm reluctant to speak up and
(02:39):
say my name. I'm a strong, independent midwoman, but as
soon as I give my name, I'm judged and probably
laughed at behind my back. I also don't think it's
my responsibility to change the world's view by allowing the
public to interact with a real life Karen rather than
the internet meme, while also being incredibly aware of everything
I say. Help, do I need to change my name
(03:03):
from a real life Karen Jesse.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Karen, I feel for you, because you know we've spoke
about this before. The Karen meme is very thinly veiled
misogyny and agism. I absolutely hate it. I reckon that
we are well passed Pete Karen. I think we're on
the way out. Having someone dress up as it, having
(03:26):
people laugh at you. I mean, tweens are idiots. We
all know that.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
I have to tell you the report from Tween and
teen World. It is so part of their lexicon, like
they'll just automatically say to me and then mom, there
was a Karen at the skatepark and she said, oh, Mom,
there was a Karen at the shop. Like they literally
use it that liberally.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
I hate it. I hate it. I really want it
to just go away. And names go in and out
of fashion all the time, and so my number one
piece of advice would be, don't care and Karen's a
great name and go with it. And most people aren't
thinking that. Even if you're getting those comments, if you're
going into a shop and you're like, I really don't
want to say my name and it's making you uncomfortable,
(04:05):
you don't have to give people your real name. I
know lots of people who have a fake name they
give out all the time because they can't be bothered.
So you're allowed to do that, or like give yourself
a shortened name, like whether it's Kaz or something, but
you shouldn't have to. I think you should be able
to own that name. And I'm just sorry that our
(04:25):
culture has found a new way to put down women
of a certain age. That's really annoying.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
I agree. And also this dilemma has made me feel
very bad because one of my really good friends is
called Karen. She is also a woman of our age.
It's a very gen x name, right, I can't remember
the last time someone had a baby and said to me,
she's called Karen, Like it's just not a thing. But
then that's also true of Sandra and Denise and all
kinds of other names that are very common among a
(04:51):
certain age, Sally and like you just don't hear them anymore.
So one of my really good mates is called Karen,
and she got really upset with me because we talked
about Karen's on the show a few years ago, probably,
and she was like, I hate that whole thing so much,
you know, it's ruining my life. I feel like it's
really discriminatory. And I kind of dismissed her a little
bit and told her to calm down, which is something
(05:12):
that you should never say to a woman of our
age anyway. It's a real thing, because I do hear
it around all the time, and I am probably guilty
of using it in a derogatory way myself at times.
Or it's just become a word for someone who's complaining,
and you'll hear people say, don't be a Karen. I
don't want to be a Karen. I don't think you
(05:33):
should change your name. I think Jesse's advice is correct
that if you're in one of those situations that makes
you uncomfortable, just use a nickname. Personally, my Karen is Kaza.
We just generally call a Kaza around the place. But
I think it's really unfortunate. I think you just got
a duck and wait for the wave to pass. But
maybe next time someone makes a dig at it, you
(05:54):
could shame them. You could ask them why they're being
so derogatory and bigoted. Our next one or Jesse, you'll
have good advice about this. I think it's about a
money pushover, Holly and Jesse. I am a complete money
pushover and I am over it. I constantly find myself
being out of pocket or forgotten to be paid back
where there is group occasions or gift purchasing. I am
(06:18):
a generous person by nature, and I love to spoil
the people I love when it calls for it. I
am generous with my time always, and rather than selling
stuff we no longer need, I give it away. If
friends are having a rough patch, I will drop them dinner, coffee, food, etc.
I never keep tabs on drinks at the pub or
coffee shouted. I have the everything comes out in the
wash mentality when it comes to the day today. What
(06:40):
I don't know how to approach and currently have no
tact for, is asking people for their owed contribution to
a gift they've committed to, or to pay back an
iou if I've lent the money. We're usually talking in
the like fifty to one hundred dollars bracket with group gifting,
which seems to be endless. I also struggle with asking
people to pay me what I'm worth. In my business,
(07:00):
I often find myself doing favors and jobs for people
and severely undercharging. How do I grow a pair and
stop giving away my time and services for basically nothing.
How can I non awkwardly ask someone who owes me
money to pay it back without feeling like the stingy
one thank you in advance for the wise advice. Well,
(07:20):
let's hope Jesse's got some wise advice.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Okay, I have so much advice because I relate with
this so much. Firstly, when it comes to the gift,
when it comes to the bill, when it comes to
being the person who covers it and people pay you back,
you know what, you're going to retire from that for
a little while you've done your piece. I think that
you can go. I actually find it really stressful to
ask people for money and you don't have to put
(07:44):
your hand up. So if the bill is coming round
and they go you can't split it whatever, let someone
else cover it. You know that you'll pay them back.
That's fine. Secondly, apps apps are great for this. I've
talked about having split Wise on my phone. This is
something that we use for holidays all the time.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
How to split wise work Jesse.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Split Wise is an app where let's say we went
away recently with my family to wa and someone says,
I'm going to go get some groceries and they spend
sixty bucks on groceries. That goes straight into the app
and it divides it among everyone. Who's there. And then
at the end. Basically, what split Wide shows you is
(08:25):
that things don't come out in the wash because by
the end of the holiday someone owes someone a bucks,
which is a significant amount of money, and you don't
have to defend that you're generous or that whatever, like
the average person would rather than know that they've settled
a debt. I think the other thing is have a
(08:47):
phrase and I've learnt this from Maya. Just have a
phrase that you use to say, hey, can you pay
me back or whatever. The other night I went out
with a few friends and someone got the bill and
I would have paid her back immediately, but I didn't
have a detail. So I had on my list the
next day, I'm going to pay it back. And first
thing in the morning I got a message going dinner
(09:09):
was ninety three dollars. That's blah blah eah, here are
my details. Nothing rude about that. I didn't bristle, I
didn't anything. I just transferred it immediately and went thanks
heaps for grabbing that. And in terms of the business, again,
I relate so much with that. I grew up with
(09:29):
my dad, who was a deputy principal tutoring. He would
tutor on the side, and I would watch him not
get paid. A deputy principal who has four kids, who
goes out on a Tuesday night and tutors and someone
doesn't bother to give him the forty dollars an hour
or whatever it was. What that does to your own
sense of self and self worth is so detrimental that
(09:52):
you need to have a set cost, like even forty
dollars for tutoring. Really sit down, work out what it's worth,
what other people who are offering the same product are charging.
Even have an invoice system, and you can resend it
and resend it and resend it because the shame and
embarrassment should be on them for not paying you yet,
(10:13):
Like that's bad form. I like the term having, Like
you've got a rate, so you're not asking someone for money.
You've just got a rate. An hour of your time
is worth one hundred bucks or whatever it is.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
So do you because sometimes I'm sure, Jesse, you get
asked to do things for free. Yep, can you come
and interview this person at this thing, or can you
host this thing, or can you come and do this whatever? Right,
like because you know you're famous and fabulous so much obviously,
do you have a way of asking in a non
(10:43):
awkward way like are you paying me? And how much
you're paying me?
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Yes? I do now. I will often say does this
include payment? Or someone will often say what is your rate?
I had to put together a document where I wrote
it down so that I could copy and paste, and
I would go how much is this worth? How much
is that worth? I needed like a rate card because
I just went on days where I'm having particularly low
(11:10):
self worth, I'll jump in and go, oh, just pay
me twenty dollars or whatever, and that's not sustainable. But
I found that having language like that protected me. And
this is you know, I'm not a big AI person,
but this is where chat GPT is really helpful. The
email that you don't want to write, the you know,
follow up about payment. Chat GPT will tell you what
(11:32):
to say, and then it's not even you. It's like
you've got your own pa or your own agent.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
I'm quickly just going to defend the flaky people, because
I often am one. It'll always be the nicole who's
the person who's collecting all the money for the holiday
dinner whatever, and hats off to them, right because My
thing is if I don't do it right now, I'm
going to forget.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
So that's the rule. You must do it outside the restaurant.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
That's the rule. So ideally do it at the table
or outside the restaurant, because otherwise am either going to
forget or you know, it'll just fall off my list
for a while. It doesn't mean that I'm a terrible person,
although kind of does because obviously, you know, when you
talk about, oh I forgot, there's obviously a hierarchy of
things you forget. But maybe it does mean I'm a
terrible person. And the thing is is that being the
(12:20):
person who always pays the bill, Like there have been
plenty of times in my life where I've been absolutely
like I can't pay that, Like it's four hundred dollars
or something, and today's not the day that four hundred
dollars can go out of my bank account. So that's
the thing that's interesting about our cashless world is that
someone has to pay that. Someone has to have four
hundred dollars in their bank account that isn't immediately needed
(12:41):
to cover something else, you know what I mean, Like
it's stressful.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
I've had that exact situation and what I've done is
I've gone, I'm going to pay you on the twentieth,
and then I put a note in my diary where
I'm like, today is the day that you pay the thing,
because I've got money coming into my account.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
But I mean more like, if you're the one at
the table who has to pay on the day, you know,
oh yeah, I've had that thing where you're like, shit,
I can't be the one who pays and everyone pays
me because I don't.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
I don't actually have yes exactly right or.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
I need that for whatever. So it creates a lot
of anxiety. So my advice to you out loud, all
of Jesse's are very smart. Lean on the apps. Also,
just don't be the person who does all the things.
And this is really hard for Nicole's because my mate
Penny is my Nicole. Everybody knows that when we'd go
to Byron, she pays for everything. And then she sends
us at me and Karen out emails going you pay this,
(13:30):
you pay that, blah blah blah. Hats off to her
because that's a lot of work.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
It is work, it's maths.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
But if she said one year or just said for
a while, like I'm not going to do that, Like
I wouldn't be upset, I would be Yeah, probably time
for one of us lazy asses to step up and
try and get out Nicole pants on. So I think
that you're right, don't put your hand up to be
that person. But the problem with that is that sometimes
that means the gifts don't get got, you know, and
their dinner doesn't get organized, because often it's the one
(13:58):
who organizes it is also the one who's going to
end up being the payer. And like it's tough. I
wonder if Nicole should stop charging a tax.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
I know, you know what I mean, because it's time,
and I also think it is it's not rude to
say I always say to restaurant. I know it's knowing
for restaurants. But it is a lot easier for everyone
if we can just split at the table, and I'll go, oh,
can we just split? And sometimes there's like an awkward
beat or whatever, and then you've got to go, oh,
are we doing it evenly? Or someone got a cocktail
and someone didn't whatever, you sort all of that out,
(14:28):
But it's a lot easier if everyone just does their bit.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Do you have any wise words? Jesse for and I
may have been this person. Yep, when they go, oh my,
you know that fifty dollars you owe me for dinner
the other night, you know, do you mind? And you're
like yeah, yeah, yeah, and then they don't. How do
we do? How do we chase that this was me?
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Recently? I said I was going to and I'm going
to read out the message I got because I thought
it was the perfect response. And I had said I
was going to pay someone and I think I'd told
Luca to do it, and they completely forgot. And the
message was hope, you're well, just wondering if you got
a chance to transfer the money from last week. No
(15:07):
rush at all. I just thought I would check because
nothing ha come through on my end. So what that
sounded like was that they were saying, oh, no, has
there been an issue with the technology.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Yes, it's passag, but it's definitely.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Works exactly what it says is like, I would hate
to think that you've transferred to the wrong account, so
I'm just checking that it's And I was so grateful
the idea that this person was walking through the world
thinking that I had not paid them the money. They
were like, I just said, oh my goodness, I'm so sorry,
thank you, thank you, thank you for following up. I
(15:38):
am paying right now, which I did. But I think
saying that was like, oh, the money hasn't hit my
account yet, I'm just checking that everything. Love that, love that,
or even just going, hey, just making sure you've got
the right account details, rescending.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
That's really good. Sometimes a bit of passag is fine.
You don't need to like, I'm sure that there are
people who'd be like, don't dress it up, just say
what you need. I need that fifty dollars. But no,
I think passag is good because it gives everyone the
benefit of the.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Doubt and resend the details because I have always lost
them in some group chat. Eh,
You're listening to Amma Mia podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges the
traditional owners of land and warders that this podcast is
recorded on Hello out louders, it's Hollywayen right here. I
know that you'll be celebrating the King's birthday, because honestly,
who isn't. But if you feel like listening to a
little bit about loud today, we're dropping you something a
bit special for the public holiday. We're dropping you one
(00:32):
of our subscriber only episodes as a little treat so
you can get a taste of what goes on for subscribers.
This episode has got listener dilemmas in it, and I
promise you one in particular is so helpful. It's going
to change your group dynamic. Anytime you're out for dinner
and somebody's like, I'll drop you that money, or do
I have to pay for your cocktail? Jesse has great
(00:55):
masterclass in getting what's owed to you without dying of embarrassment.
And then we hear from a woman named Karen who's
wondering if she should actually change her name. On our
subscriber episodes, we cover all kinds of conversations from dilemmas
to dissections of TV shows, to the things we think
are a little bit too private to have on the
main show. So if you enjoyed this peak behind the curtain,
there's plenty more where that came from. And there's a
(01:17):
link in our show notes for you to become a
subscriber if you choose enjoy. Hello, out Louders, Jesse and
I are playing agony ants today. There needs to be
a better term for that. I called you for agony ant.
I bet Dolly Alderton doesn't call herself an agony ann,
does she?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
We're wise witches or something.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
We're wise witches. Dear Holly and Jesse. We're calling this
and out Louders have got some good dilemmas for us.
Here we go. Hi, my name is Karen. Obviously everyone
thinks they know me. My name was chosen by my
American dad with love and care and over all other
baby names my mum wanted. He has now passed and
it is something I will always have that he gifted
(01:56):
to me. But we went bowling as a family the
other day and I entered my name on the screen
above the bowling lanes and the family next door with
tweens could not stop laughing. Oh. At my school, I'm
a primary school teacher. We had a fundraising wig day
and a family sent their child in a helmet esque
style wig. And when I remarked on such a fabulous wig,
(02:18):
the seven year old said she was a Karen due
to her behavior and haircut. Students at my school loudly
denounce their friends as Karen's a friend who may not
be my friend anymore. Asked if I was ashamed or
embarrassed about my name now that it's used as an insult,
and every time I need to ask for a help
or a service now, I'm reluctant to speak up and
(02:39):
say my name. I'm a strong, independent midwoman, but as
soon as I give my name, I'm judged and probably
laughed at behind my back. I also don't think it's
my responsibility to change the world's view by allowing the
public to interact with a real life Karen rather than
the internet meme, while also being incredibly aware of everything
I say. Help, do I need to change my name
(03:03):
from a real life Karen Jesse.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Karen, I feel for you, because you know we've spoke
about this before. The Karen meme is very thinly veiled
misogyny and agism. I absolutely hate it. I reckon that
we are well passed Pete Karen. I think we're on
the way out. Having someone dress up as it, having
(03:26):
people laugh at you. I mean, tweens are idiots. We
all know that.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
I have to tell you the report from Tween and
teen World. It is so part of their lexicon, like
they'll just automatically say to me and then mom, there
was a Karen at the skatepark and she said, oh, Mom,
there was a Karen at the shop. Like they literally
use it that liberally.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
I hate it. I hate it. I really want it
to just go away. And names go in and out
of fashion all the time, and so my number one
piece of advice would be, don't care and Karen's a
great name and go with it. And most people aren't
thinking that. Even if you're getting those comments, if you're
going into a shop and you're like, I really don't
want to say my name and it's making you uncomfortable,
(04:05):
you don't have to give people your real name. I
know lots of people who have a fake name they
give out all the time because they can't be bothered.
So you're allowed to do that, or like give yourself
a shortened name, like whether it's Kaz or something, but
you shouldn't have to. I think you should be able
to own that name. And I'm just sorry that our
(04:25):
culture has found a new way to put down women
of a certain age. That's really annoying.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
I agree. And also this dilemma has made me feel
very bad because one of my really good friends is
called Karen. She is also a woman of our age.
It's a very gen x name, right, I can't remember
the last time someone had a baby and said to me,
she's called Karen, Like it's just not a thing. But
then that's also true of Sandra and Denise and all
kinds of other names that are very common among a
(04:51):
certain age, Sally and like you just don't hear them anymore.
So one of my really good mates is called Karen,
and she got really upset with me because we talked
about Karen's on the show a few years ago, probably,
and she was like, I hate that whole thing so much,
you know, it's ruining my life. I feel like it's
really discriminatory. And I kind of dismissed her a little
bit and told her to calm down, which is something
(05:12):
that you should never say to a woman of our
age anyway. It's a real thing, because I do hear
it around all the time, and I am probably guilty
of using it in a derogatory way myself at times.
Or it's just become a word for someone who's complaining,
and you'll hear people say, don't be a Karen. I
don't want to be a Karen. I don't think you
(05:33):
should change your name. I think Jesse's advice is correct
that if you're in one of those situations that makes
you uncomfortable, just use a nickname. Personally, my Karen is Kaza.
We just generally call a Kaza around the place. But
I think it's really unfortunate. I think you just got
a duck and wait for the wave to pass. But
maybe next time someone makes a dig at it, you
(05:54):
could shame them. You could ask them why they're being
so derogatory and bigoted. Our next one or Jesse, you'll
have good advice about this. I think it's about a
money pushover, Holly and Jesse. I am a complete money
pushover and I am over it. I constantly find myself
being out of pocket or forgotten to be paid back
where there is group occasions or gift purchasing. I am
(06:18):
a generous person by nature, and I love to spoil
the people I love when it calls for it. I
am generous with my time always, and rather than selling
stuff we no longer need, I give it away. If
friends are having a rough patch, I will drop them dinner, coffee, food, etc.
I never keep tabs on drinks at the pub or
coffee shouted. I have the everything comes out in the
wash mentality when it comes to the day today. What
(06:40):
I don't know how to approach and currently have no
tact for, is asking people for their owed contribution to
a gift they've committed to, or to pay back an
iou if I've lent the money. We're usually talking in
the like fifty to one hundred dollars bracket with group gifting,
which seems to be endless. I also struggle with asking
people to pay me what I'm worth. In my business,
(07:00):
I often find myself doing favors and jobs for people
and severely undercharging. How do I grow a pair and
stop giving away my time and services for basically nothing.
How can I non awkwardly ask someone who owes me
money to pay it back without feeling like the stingy
one thank you in advance for the wise advice. Well,
(07:20):
let's hope Jesse's got some wise advice.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Okay, I have so much advice because I relate with
this so much. Firstly, when it comes to the gift,
when it comes to the bill, when it comes to
being the person who covers it and people pay you back,
you know what, you're going to retire from that for
a little while you've done your piece. I think that
you can go. I actually find it really stressful to
ask people for money and you don't have to put
(07:44):
your hand up. So if the bill is coming round
and they go you can't split it whatever, let someone
else cover it. You know that you'll pay them back.
That's fine. Secondly, apps apps are great for this. I've
talked about having split Wise on my phone. This is
something that we use for holidays all the time.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
How to split wise work Jesse.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Split Wise is an app where let's say we went
away recently with my family to wa and someone says,
I'm going to go get some groceries and they spend
sixty bucks on groceries. That goes straight into the app
and it divides it among everyone. Who's there. And then
at the end. Basically, what split Wide shows you is
(08:25):
that things don't come out in the wash because by
the end of the holiday someone owes someone a bucks,
which is a significant amount of money, and you don't
have to defend that you're generous or that whatever, like
the average person would rather than know that they've settled
a debt. I think the other thing is have a
(08:47):
phrase and I've learnt this from Maya. Just have a
phrase that you use to say, hey, can you pay
me back or whatever. The other night I went out
with a few friends and someone got the bill and
I would have paid her back immediately, but I didn't
have a detail. So I had on my list the
next day, I'm going to pay it back. And first
thing in the morning I got a message going dinner
(09:09):
was ninety three dollars. That's blah blah eah, here are
my details. Nothing rude about that. I didn't bristle, I
didn't anything. I just transferred it immediately and went thanks
heaps for grabbing that. And in terms of the business, again,
I relate so much with that. I grew up with
(09:29):
my dad, who was a deputy principal tutoring. He would
tutor on the side, and I would watch him not
get paid. A deputy principal who has four kids, who
goes out on a Tuesday night and tutors and someone
doesn't bother to give him the forty dollars an hour
or whatever it was. What that does to your own
sense of self and self worth is so detrimental that
(09:52):
you need to have a set cost, like even forty
dollars for tutoring. Really sit down, work out what it's worth,
what other people who are offering the same product are charging.
Even have an invoice system, and you can resend it
and resend it and resend it because the shame and
embarrassment should be on them for not paying you yet,
(10:13):
Like that's bad form. I like the term having, Like
you've got a rate, so you're not asking someone for money.
You've just got a rate. An hour of your time
is worth one hundred bucks or whatever it is.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
So do you because sometimes I'm sure, Jesse, you get
asked to do things for free. Yep, can you come
and interview this person at this thing, or can you
host this thing, or can you come and do this whatever? Right,
like because you know you're famous and fabulous so much obviously,
do you have a way of asking in a non
(10:43):
awkward way like are you paying me? And how much
you're paying me?
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Yes? I do now. I will often say does this
include payment? Or someone will often say what is your rate?
I had to put together a document where I wrote
it down so that I could copy and paste, and
I would go how much is this worth? How much
is that worth? I needed like a rate card because
I just went on days where I'm having particularly low
(11:10):
self worth, I'll jump in and go, oh, just pay
me twenty dollars or whatever, and that's not sustainable. But
I found that having language like that protected me. And
this is you know, I'm not a big AI person,
but this is where chat GPT is really helpful. The
email that you don't want to write, the you know,
follow up about payment. Chat GPT will tell you what
(11:32):
to say, and then it's not even you. It's like
you've got your own pa or your own agent.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
I'm quickly just going to defend the flaky people, because
I often am one. It'll always be the nicole who's
the person who's collecting all the money for the holiday
dinner whatever, and hats off to them, right because My
thing is if I don't do it right now, I'm
going to forget.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
So that's the rule. You must do it outside the restaurant.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
That's the rule. So ideally do it at the table
or outside the restaurant, because otherwise am either going to
forget or you know, it'll just fall off my list
for a while. It doesn't mean that I'm a terrible person,
although kind of does because obviously, you know, when you
talk about, oh I forgot, there's obviously a hierarchy of
things you forget. But maybe it does mean I'm a
terrible person. And the thing is is that being the
(12:20):
person who always pays the bill, Like there have been
plenty of times in my life where I've been absolutely
like I can't pay that, Like it's four hundred dollars
or something, and today's not the day that four hundred
dollars can go out of my bank account. So that's
the thing that's interesting about our cashless world is that
someone has to pay that. Someone has to have four
hundred dollars in their bank account that isn't immediately needed
(12:41):
to cover something else, you know what I mean, Like
it's stressful.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
I've had that exact situation and what I've done is
I've gone, I'm going to pay you on the twentieth,
and then I put a note in my diary where
I'm like, today is the day that you pay the thing,
because I've got money coming into my account.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
But I mean more like, if you're the one at
the table who has to pay on the day, you know,
oh yeah, I've had that thing where you're like, shit,
I can't be the one who pays and everyone pays
me because I don't.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
I don't actually have yes exactly right or.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
I need that for whatever. So it creates a lot
of anxiety. So my advice to you out loud, all
of Jesse's are very smart. Lean on the apps. Also,
just don't be the person who does all the things.
And this is really hard for Nicole's because my mate
Penny is my Nicole. Everybody knows that when we'd go
to Byron, she pays for everything. And then she sends
us at me and Karen out emails going you pay this,
(13:30):
you pay that, blah blah blah. Hats off to her
because that's a lot of work.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
It is work, it's maths.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
But if she said one year or just said for
a while, like I'm not going to do that, Like
I wouldn't be upset, I would be Yeah, probably time
for one of us lazy asses to step up and
try and get out Nicole pants on. So I think
that you're right, don't put your hand up to be
that person. But the problem with that is that sometimes
that means the gifts don't get got, you know, and
their dinner doesn't get organized, because often it's the one
(13:58):
who organizes it is also the one who's going to
end up being the payer. And like it's tough. I
wonder if Nicole should stop charging a tax.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
I know, you know what I mean, because it's time,
and I also think it is it's not rude to
say I always say to restaurant. I know it's knowing
for restaurants. But it is a lot easier for everyone
if we can just split at the table, and I'll go, oh,
can we just split? And sometimes there's like an awkward
beat or whatever, and then you've got to go, oh,
are we doing it evenly? Or someone got a cocktail
and someone didn't whatever, you sort all of that out,
(14:28):
But it's a lot easier if everyone just does their bit.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Do you have any wise words? Jesse for and I
may have been this person. Yep, when they go, oh my,
you know that fifty dollars you owe me for dinner
the other night, you know, do you mind? And you're
like yeah, yeah, yeah, and then they don't. How do
we do? How do we chase that this was me?
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Recently? I said I was going to and I'm going
to read out the message I got because I thought
it was the perfect response. And I had said I
was going to pay someone and I think I'd told
Luca to do it, and they completely forgot. And the
message was hope, you're well, just wondering if you got
a chance to transfer the money from last week. No
(15:07):
rush at all. I just thought I would check because
nothing ha come through on my end. So what that
sounded like was that they were saying, oh, no, has
there been an issue with the technology.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Yes, it's passag, but it's definitely.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Works exactly what it says is like, I would hate
to think that you've transferred to the wrong account, so
I'm just checking that it's And I was so grateful
the idea that this person was walking through the world
thinking that I had not paid them the money. They
were like, I just said, oh my goodness, I'm so sorry,
thank you, thank you, thank you for following up. I
(15:38):
am paying right now, which I did. But I think
saying that was like, oh, the money hasn't hit my
account yet, I'm just checking that everything. Love that, love that,
or even just going, hey, just making sure you've got
the right account details, rescending.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
That's really good. Sometimes a bit of passag is fine.
You don't need to like, I'm sure that there are
people who'd be like, don't dress it up, just say
what you need. I need that fifty dollars. But no,
I think passag is good because it gives everyone the
benefit of the.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Doubt and resend the details because I have always lost
them in some group chat. Eh,
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