June 19, 2025 • 50 mins
Sarah Jessica Parker has spent decades as Carrie Bradshaw, but here’s the twist: she’s never actually watched herself do any of it. Not the sex, not the shopping, not even the typing. So is it the ultimate act of self-care, or just a lil bit lazy?
Plus, everyone’s talking about texting less—until they’re the ones left on read. We unpack the modern crisis of communication overload, from parenting to work to friendships, and why it’s never as simple as just putting your phone down.
If you thought podcasts were just for your ears, think again. Vodcasts are taking over and we feel… conflicted about it. Are you sick of our faces yet? We certainly are.
And our recommendations, including a documentary on Jessie’s roman empire, Holly’s 1923 binge, and Mia’s new comfort TV show.
Support independent women's media
Recommendations
Mia recommends Overcompensating on Prime Video and If I Could Be My Silhouette by Jacqui Oberg
Jessie recommends Titan: The OceanGate Submersible Disaster documentary on Netflix
Holly recommends 1923 on Paramount Plus
Listen to Parenting Out Loud
What To Listen To Next:
- Listen to our latest episode: Ethical Flirting Rules & The Sister Who Just Won't Change
- Listen: The Lick Ick & The Patron Saint of Betrayed Women
- Listen: And Just Like That…Carrie Won’t Talk About Her Vagina
- Listen: Jessie & The Inside Scoop On The Project's Cancellation
- Listen: Meghan Sussex, Emma Grede & The Rebrand of 'Hustle'
- Listen: The Books That Changed Our Lives
- Listen: Indy Clinton, A Private Investigat
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Welcome to Mamma Mia out Loud, where women come for
a debrief.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
I'm Holly Wainwright.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
I'm mea Friedman, and I'm Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
And here's what made our agenda for today, Friday, the
twentieth of June.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Why Sarah Jessica.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Parker might be one of the few women alive who
has never watched Carrie Bradshaw have sex, get dressed, or
type charmingly on a laptop.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Plus, everyone wants to text less, but nobody wants to
be left on red And is anyone else exhausted by
having to be always on? Not just at work but
with friends and family.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
And we've got some recommendations for you. We are all
bringing you something to watch this weekend, and we have
some news. We do great there.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
But first I have a question. Did everyone else know
that Bluey is a girl?
Speaker 5 (01:05):
Yes? No?
Speaker 4 (01:05):
Yes? What did you think Bluey was a boy?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
I don't watch blue my children too well?
Speaker 4 (01:10):
What did you think blue was a boy?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
I think I did?
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Yes, because blue is a boy's color.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
No, Blue is a girl and has a sister named Bingo.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
My mind is blown. So I kind of thought that
Bingo was a girl, but I assumed that Bluie was
a boy, and I learnt it because I also am
out of the loop of children's programs. But now spending
more time with my granddaughter, I've very much entered the.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
World of Blue.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Everybody says it's the best kids TV show I've ever made,
and it's so successful all over the world.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Yeah, I'm back in the Wiggles. Goodness, there've been some
changes there. There's a lot of them now. Yeah, they've
all got different names. And Jeff isn't around, must have
gone sleep permanently.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
But Blue is a girl.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
I didn't know that.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
Okay, I have something I need to add because I
was away with friends over the weekend and there were
eight of us and two of us didn't know this.
Did you guys know that oats and porridge were the
same thing? Yes? Stop it?
Speaker 2 (02:05):
How did you not stop?
Speaker 4 (02:07):
I think that they were thought porridge was likes ludge.
I thought porridge was like a mucky wet. I thought
it was just it's.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Made from oat.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Where do you think it came from the ground.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
I thought that porridge was the thing you bought and
oats is the thing you buy. Separate things.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
What did you think you did with oats?
Speaker 4 (02:23):
I thought you made oats.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Can we revise? He is the smart one, you know
how that's always nothing. Jesse is the smart one.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Not today.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
My friend and I were just our minds were absolutely blown.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Porridge and the same thing.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Wow, I've been off the show for a couple of days.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
The thing I like the absolute best is that Miya
thought that they shou rocky.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Now I've forgotten which it is. Now I'm terrified and
I'm just going to call him Rihanna's boyfriend my life.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Which is very out loud of us to just make
him Rihanna's boyfriend. Anyway, if you had spent decades on
one of the most iconic TV shows of all time,
in glorious coture, full hair and makeup and getting to
snog loads of handsome, craggy guys, wouldn't you want to
watch yourself doing it?
Speaker 2 (03:14):
No? I would.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Apparently if you're SJP you definitely wouldn't. And unless you're
trapped under something heavy, you probably know that she's currently
starring and executive producer, ing sho we make that a
thing absolutely, and just like that the Sex and the
City spin off. People have a lot of opinions about
that show. They particularly had a lot of opinions about
(03:37):
something that happened quite early on in this season with
John Corbet, who plays Aiden in his pickup truck. We
may have talked about it. Here's Howard Stern asking SJP
what she thought about that moment that revealed the truth
that she doesn't watch it.
Speaker 6 (03:50):
It's is such a weird moment where he's having phone
sex with you and he's about to, you know, play
with himself when he's talking to you, and he licks
his hand and he takes his tongue and he starts
licking his hand and then he plays with his penis.
Do you know he did that in this thing? Because
you probably filmed it, And have you seen this scene
(04:10):
at all?
Speaker 5 (04:11):
No, I've not seen that.
Speaker 6 (04:13):
Is that really true? You really have not seen it?
Speaker 5 (04:15):
Seen it? No?
Speaker 1 (04:19):
I can't comment on that.
Speaker 5 (04:20):
My lawyer has advised me.
Speaker 6 (04:23):
Is that true?
Speaker 1 (04:24):
I have no attorney?
Speaker 6 (04:26):
No? No, But I mean, is it true that you're
up to you really have no knowledge of it?
Speaker 5 (04:30):
Is I haven't seen most of Sex and the City ever,
and I haven't seen and just like that. Every now
and then Michael Patrick will say to me, please watch
episode you know, so I don't know. This is the
first I'm hearing about that.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
I found this just weird. I have to say on
a few levels. First of all, as an executive producer
on a show, you have to watch it a lot.
I guess there are different versions of being an executive producer,
but part of what you do is you make decisions
early on about casting and about scripts, and then you
(05:06):
watch the dailies and you watch the edits of the
show and you give feedback. And she's been an executive
producer of Sex and the City and now and.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Just like that.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
So I guess what this is suggesting is that it's
perhaps a vanity credit or that she inhabits. No, that's
a really common thing. Sometimes it means that you get
more money out of the back end, because you can
charge a fee for being the star, and you charge
a fee for being the executive producer. But interestingly, one
of the reasons that Kim Ktrall, who played Samantha, gave
(05:39):
for wanting to not come back is that she said, well,
Sarah Jessica Parker was an executive producer. I feel like
we all should have been, and just like that, Cynthia
Nixon who plays Miranda, and christ And Davis who plays
Charlotte both are executive producers.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
I don't think it's vanity though, because I think that
Sarah Jessica Parker is interested in different things. So if
you listen, for example, I remember there was a little
doco about and just like that in the first season
where they talked about how obsessive she was about Carrie's closet,
Like I don't mean literally the clothes, but the way
it would be organized, the apartments, the way this would
(06:12):
be there and this would be there, and in a
little code the set dresses made it sound like it
was kind of a punish, you know what I mean.
I think that there are things that Sarah Jessica Parker
is incredibly detailed focused on, but the end result doesn't
seem like it's that, do you understand it?
Speaker 4 (06:30):
I wonder if this is how you survive fifty years
in the industry is by not watching it, And I
reckon that a lot of actors when they sit down
at a premiere or when their film is released or whatever.
I don't reckon that they've watched it. I think that
we hear a lot of creatives talk about the process
and not necessarily being connected to the outcome. And I
(06:52):
just reckon that she is very invested in story. She's
a Booker Prize judge this year. I think she really
cares about words. She's a lover of like literary fiction
and that kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
She's got a book in print.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
She's got a book imprint which has many as one
of her many things.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
Yes, So I.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Love talking about books, and she is a big advocate
for public libraries. And she talks about growing up. She's
one of like eight or nine kids, and she was
never allowed to leave the house, none of them unless
they had a book with them.
Speaker 6 (07:21):
Oh.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
I love that. Can we please talk about the other
tidbit that has come out of this press tour, which
is that Sarah Jessica Parker alleges that she reads up
to two books a day.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Many books do you read a week or a month?
Speaker 7 (07:34):
Well, right now I'm judging the Booker. So I'm reading
two books today. Sometimes it's an honor, it's a privilege.
It's intense to be reading this the volume. Iss, it's
kind of hard to convey what it's like to have
as many books as we are given the opportunity to
read a book. Yeah, it's quite something.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
What do we make of that?
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Well, I've listened to interviews with her before where she
says that she reads constantly. She's not a social media person, right,
we all know that she's not a phone person. She
probably doesn't even have a phone. She's one of those
I think and shed.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
It's like a giant Jane Nelson character. And she often
talks a bit like that.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
She does.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
And she says that she reads in the makeup chair.
Imagine how much time she spends in a makeup chair
and has done for fifty years. She says that she
reads on the subway, she reads all the time, she
reads between takes. She sounds very much like that is
her passion. And if you are a book of Prize Judge,
I can't believe she's a Book of Prize Jge.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
That is such a flex go SJP.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
It's such a prestigious literary award in the world, and
you have to read all the books.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
And makes will That's what she said is she's just
come off obviously season three of and just like that,
she's in a period of her career where then she
has some downtime, so of course she has capacity. I'm like,
that's the dream to read two books a day.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
But Holly's right, even when you're working as an actor,
there is so much downtime. That's one of the reasons
that I can't handle television. And I only went to
the set one time. There is so much waiting, so
much waiting. I was listening to the and just like
that podcast with Michael Patrick King, who is the big
boss of the show, and he was talking about this
scene in episode I think it's either two or three
(09:12):
with the rats I love them, And that was actually
filmed on the sound stage and they had to keep
gathering all the rats that I've assumed they were cgr rats.
(09:35):
They had to gather all the rats and then release
them again and again, and each time they were trying
to do that, it took ages and it was two
o'clock in the morning. You know, so, Carrie, Oh, sorry,
Satan's ca Park. It does have a lot of time.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
The thing that's shocking to people about this, I think
about the idea she doesn't watch it is because Jesse's right.
Lots of actors say they don't watch their work. For
a lot of them, it's part of their process, Like
they're like, I do the work and then I have
to disassociate, which seems very well adjusted, but also a
tiny bit arrogant in a way, because you learn when
you watch yourself back, right, But I guess if you've
been doing it for fifty years, maybe you don't need to.
But the thing that makes this so strange is Carrie
(10:08):
Bradshaw is someone that we all know so well. I
was thinking about it. I don't think there is a
fictional character that I have probably spent more time with
in my entire life than Carrie Bradshaw. And so to
most of us, s JP is Carrie Bradshaw, and it's
like she's someone that we all know really well. But
it's like s JP's never met her, you know what
I mean, Like she doesn't view her the way we
(10:30):
view her.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Have you ever listened to Kristin Davis's podcast it's called
It's Really Weird, and she's very elevated. But anyway, when
she has s JP on, the whole episode is just
her explaining to s JP what happened on the show.
I'm serious, but I have a question for you both
in terms of it's one thing not to watch you
(10:52):
work back, and a lot of actors don't I get it.
We should technically listen back to every episode of this show.
I don't do.
Speaker 6 (10:59):
You know.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
I go through phases where I do it is the
way you learn, And then I go through phases where
I'm like, I couldn't think of anything worse having to
listen to me because I just go listen to them.
Number of times I did that, listen to the way
I said that highly critical And that's what I've heard
as JP say is I would hate myself, and I've
heard Reese Witherspoon say the same thing. I would go
(11:20):
into a self hating spiral. All I can see is
all the choices I didn't make, all the mistakes I made,
And I get that, right, Yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Get that too.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
But my question is it's one thing not watching you
work back, but as an executive producer and star of
a show, when the whole cultural conversation in the reaction
to your episode was about the lickic we spoke about it,
and the week before it was about the funny puppet
um habit she was wearing. Do you really think she
doesn't know that? Do you really think she's not aware of.
Speaker 4 (11:49):
The crit conversation? She doesn't know it. And what we
need to remember is that Sarah Jessica Parker is the
antithesis of Carrie Bradshaw and for the twenty years of
The Sex and the City Cannon she has sat down
for interviews, even the Howard Sterne one was a perfect
example to be asked questions that I believe make her uncomfortable.
I don't think she likes talk about.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Why did she go on Howard Sterne. I, Oh, she didn't.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
That's what she's done it for years.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
But that's what he does. Right as we know, promoting
a piece of work, a movie album, a TV show
is very different to what it used to be. You know,
in the nineties and the early two thousands, you do
a high profile interview with Vogue, Vanity Fair, you might
do a cover, you might do a couple of newspaper interviews,
a couple of TV interviews, one of those junkets. But
now you've got to go on a chicken shop date
(12:36):
with ameliads Moldenberg. You've got to eat hot wings for BuzzFeed.
You've got to go and talk to Howard Stern about
your sex life. You've got to sit down with call
her daddy Alex Creeper and talk about your abortion.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
It's like, I don't think you have to if you're SJP.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
I was thinking about this because you're so right that
whether or not the actor or the producer chooses to
engage with the conversation. Think about White lotus right, they
say that Mike White is really into that.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
He loves that.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
But also you can see some of the breakout stars
of this recent series loved it, like Walton Goggins, Oh
my God, Like he was the guy who played Rick.
Now he's said, lean into that so Hardy popped up everywhere.
Patrick Schwuerzner was everywhere. Patrick Schwarznegger was everywhere. They were
leaning into it really hard. They were part of that conversation.
And I think that an actor at the level of SJP,
(13:22):
who lets be clear, we reference some of the businesses
she has, it's not like she needs the money. I
think she genuinely sees it as work and herself very separately,
and she would be like, I will do four pieces
of content.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Well, you're contractually obliged to promote a show when you're
the star, and the whole point of the show is
very much around her, and it's sold around her. But
I do feel it's a little bit disingenuous. Well maybe
that's just her stick that her publicist didn't go, Hey,
Howard Stone's probably gonna ask you about the handlicking scene.
Speaker 4 (13:52):
The more I learn about her, the more I love her.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
I think she's fascinating.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
I love her. I think she's the perfect celebrity. There
was this great anecdote that she told about being in
an airport. Robbie Williams recently talked about this, having people
come up and wanting to get a photo, and because
Sarah Jessica Parker has we believe, never owned a phone,
she doesn't know what's happening, and she will turn to them.
And she said, I turned to this woman in the
airport and said, you have not even said hello to me.
(14:15):
What I will give you is a conversation, and it
will be a lot more meaningful than a selfie. I
just kind of love her.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
She's like from another tongue. I am worried about her
a little bit in the show. She looks pretty miserable.
I mean, it would be right that her character would
be depressed. She's a widow. I think, you know, Big
didn't die that long ago.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
So funny, That's not how I'm reading it at all.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
I'm really enjoying watching her be sword of single again,
Like I'm loving seeing her in that house. I'm loving
seeing her evolve. I think I loved actually the episode
where she went to Virginia and Aidan's family, because she's
talked about this, and I think it's true. I know
everyone hates Carrie, and I'm a vigorous carry apologist.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Not everyone hates Carrie. She's very polarizing, polarized, but there
are like entire websites about like why people should hate
her so much. I actually really like Carrie, and I
also think that she has changed, and she has you
think she's I think she's changed, and I think she's going.
Like what they're trying to show in this these are
episodes is like her going to Virginia and understanding, actually
(15:12):
understanding what it means that Aiden has a family rather
than just the concept of it, you know, and kind
of tasting.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
That and being like, do I want to be part
of that? I love the handsome rider downstairs. I'm very
into it.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
She made a point to about the Carrie hate and
how there are television shows that have been made about
mass murderers, you know, a male mass murderer who doesn't
get half the hate that Carrie Bradshaw does, and how
there is something deeply sexist about our reading of Carrie.
And I think that that's very true.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Is it sexist or is it that we you know,
we talked on Monday Show about how when people find
out who their trolls are, it's often someone who's essentially
jealous of that.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
I don't think we know what to do with complicated I.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Don't mean jealous necessarily of Carrie. But is it sexist
or is it what Holly was saying in that we've
spent so much time we identify with this character, you
know that whole thing. Are you a Charlotte?
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Are you carry?
Speaker 1 (16:06):
And everyone wanted to be a Carrie that when they
behave in ways that we don't like, we feel personally.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
Betrayed or do like breaking bad or something like. There
are shows about complicated men and we follow them every
step and go I still like him? Has he killed
forty five people?
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Sure?
Speaker 4 (16:22):
Whereas Carrie makes a morally dubious decision and we go.
I think that's some wrong with her.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
This is the thing about likable women, right, is that
I like a lot of women, and some of my
great friends, and I'm certain also me who are not perfect,
and who makes selfish decisions sometimes and who sometimes are
a bit annoying and sometimes are a bit self obsessed
and sometimes go out with the wrong guy. Like, that's
what we're actually like. And so I think that all
the things you can throw at a carry that aren't real,
(16:51):
you know, obviously obviously, the wardrobe, the money, all that stuff.
Actually the fact that she's a bit annoying sometimes is
the most real thing about her. She's also very funny.
I love watching her. I think she gets the best lines.
I like the lines on her face and on the edge.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
I'm a big fan.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Yeah, I think the criticism when I feel frustrated with her,
it's because she hasn't evolved, not because she has. Like
the whole thing with the shoes just feels so one note,
and the you know that whole storyline where it was
the thumbs up emoji or the thumbs down, like it
just seems very stuck in the nineties, both with her
cultural references, you know, when she was like, oh little
(17:26):
house on the carry instead of there's no trad wife reference.
It's almost like she exists, not in this world.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
But I think she does. Carry.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Isn't a TikTok person, Not every woman who certainly the
age that she is as plugged into the zeitgeist as
you are. I mean, as cool and relevant and youthful
as you are, my friend.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
After the break, what is an acceptable amount of time
to wait until you text someone back. There've been a
few stories and newsletters and conversations in the zeitgeist over
the last couple of months about the volume of texting
that we are becoming accustomed to. The latest of these
(18:09):
is an article that was written in New York Magazine
by the author Catherine jess and Morton, who has little kids,
and she was talking about the burden of texting for parents,
and she talks about now, when you have a play date,
the other parent expects constant updates via text, photos, videos
(18:29):
of what's happening. And she says that she finds that
like completely counterintuitive and like a real burden, because she said,
the point of me having another kid over is so
that my kid can play and I can get some
other stuff done, and vice versa. For my kid's at
someone else's house. I don't want to have to be
responding to constant updates about how they're going.
Speaker 4 (18:51):
She called it maternal self soothing, which I thought was
a really, really good phrase. It's almost pacifying for the
person doing it to feel as though every time they
have an anxious thought about their child or they worry,
they almost want to perform the fact they're thinking about
their child.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Well, it was.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Interesting because I had Luna for the weekend and you're away, Jesse,
and when I have her, I do have that track
going in my mind. I should capture this on video,
I should capture this one.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
And I have a track going in my mind that
if I haven't checked in a few hours. Do people
think I'm not thinking about her?
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Yes? And I did think that. And I even said
to Luca when I spoke to someone, like, what are
you guys up to? You're not behaving in the normal way.
You're not texting as often as you do, because usually
when I've got her, it's like how is she? Especially
from him? Actually, anyway, it just turned out that you
were just having a brain time.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
So when you just said I did think that. I
don't think that Jesse didn't care about her daughter anymore.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
No, I thought that they were to say kind of
Shenanigan's weird sex weekend or something. I didn't know what
was going on. And then also I'm like, well, why
do I keep texting? Do I keep texting to show
you how much fun she's having?
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Is that about me?
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Or is that about making you feel better? It's an
interesting thing, But she says also, because when your kids
are too young to have a phone, you choose not
to give them a phone. All of this parent communication,
the WhatsApp groups, the messages through playdates, the organizing of
the social things falls disproportionately on the mother. So that's
the parenting side of it. But then there's also the
(20:26):
group texts. Caroline o'donahue wrote a piece in her newsletter
a few weeks ago saying everyone wants to text less,
but nobody wants to be left on red. What did
you think of that?
Speaker 3 (20:37):
It's one hundred percent true. We all are obsessed with
being off our phones more, but we all demand instant
responses to anything that.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
We put out there.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
So what I loved, particularly about what Caroline o'donahue wrote,
which I really related to, is that she basically was
saying that she was a bad texter, and she sort
of threw out a few reasons of why she was
a bad texter, and then she wrote this, She said,
The thing is, I don't really want to be better
at it. I'm bad at texting. I don't want to
be good at it. I hate my phone, and so
do you. I feel vulgar and sick when I spend
(21:07):
too much time on it, and a never to Texting
takes time. But equally, I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings,
particularly the feelings of people I genuinely care about. It
shouldn't be a problem, and yet it is. Everyone I
know is trying to cut down on their screen time.
No one wants to be left on read. When we're
left on red, it feels very close to being thrown
out of the nest. When we fail to text others back,
(21:29):
we see it as morally neutral behavior, but when others
do it to us, it creates sincere panic. And that
is so true. How many times have you sent a
text to somebody and they haven't responded. And then they
haven't responded. Your mind goes to, she's mad with me?
Speaker 2 (21:44):
What have I done? Why haven't they responded? Was I rude?
And you go back and you read the text. Was
I rude? Did I phrase that wrongly? Should I? Blah
blah blah.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
But when you don't reply to a text, you're like,
that's fine, I don't need to reply to that.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
And then when someone texts you and says is everything okay?
Or are you mad with me? It feels like, well,
it's another bit.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
It's interesting because it brings up the question of which
texts require a response and which ones don't.
Speaker 4 (22:08):
The point there, o'donna who makes is that we have
now seen constant connection as a proxy for intimacy. So
if it's not a constant boom boom boom boom boom
bom boom, then we're not as close as we were.
And sometimes with friendships they go through a really intense
period and then you go, we haven't texted. I think
this all the time. I think about someone and I go,
I should text them, And it's like we can't have
(22:30):
that feeling without doing it. Whereas it used to be
that it was a phone caller. It was a letter
which by.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Are you'd organized to get together in Yes.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
But by that nature it wasn't always accessible and always possible.
So she has this point about how just like in
the nineteen fifties, when technology meant that vacuuming was easier,
like you could finally vacuum rather than sweep, and you
had a dishwasher, and you had all of these new
things to make cleaning easier, and they were going to
afford women more time. What happened was that our standards
(23:00):
for cleaning just kept rising, and the same has happened
with our standards for socializing. And it's interesting how disproportionately
this has impacted women, because I don't know men who
are having this same the mental load of all of this.
We talked about this in our live show, that the
mental load of the group chat is something that women
are wearing in a way that men aren't. They don't
(23:22):
have the same levels of guilt and responsibility to their friends,
which I actually think there's something kind of admirable about that.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
It also must change the texture of our relationships.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
I don't know if you remember.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
There was a skit in a Chris Rock special once
where he talked about how marriage is before constant texting
and marriage is after a different thing and they should
be classified in a different time frame because you used
to leave the house in the morning, spend all day
doing whatever you were doing, come back together in the
evening and you hadn't had any contact all day. And
you know, lots of people still like that, I guess,
(23:53):
but most of us are very much like just checking
in and could you do and house things and did
you believe this happened? And that heightened number of interactions
means there's less to discuss in real time. But also
does it kind of make your relationship more or intense
or do.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
You burn through relationships faster because you've reached the point
of peak everything, like you've just known each other really,
really well. And I think that group chats are a
specific type of connection because they can just go all
the time, like constantly, and there might be twenty people
in them. But I don't necessarily think that people who
are bad at texting. I never get the sense that
(24:31):
I'm mad at them all. I think they don't like me.
I think they have a different relationship with their phone.
And I'm quite aware that my relationship with my phone
is a problem i'd like to fix.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
I find group chats in a way easier. And I
know that you know some people are in group chats,
some people aren't. But what I've made peace with now
is sometimes a group chat can be going on and
you're not in it, and you're not involved, and it's okay.
It's almost like social media, like when you pick up
your phone to look at social media, you don't go
back to the beginning of You just jump in the
(25:03):
stream wherever you are, write it for a little while
and then post.
Speaker 5 (25:06):
Now.
Speaker 4 (25:06):
It's also that, and I think it was O'donahu who
made this point. I mean, our work communications are in
the same place that our social communications are, and every
notification from a friend's message to an urgent work email
is presented the same on a phone. So you get
this spike of like must open now. And what I've
tried to do is go do not open the message
(25:27):
until you can answer it. So if that means that
at nine pm you go, all right, I'm going to
because then I enjoy it, like I sit down and
I go, here's my time to go through this. And
she speaks to about the experience and this is something
new where you're waiting on a message from someone and
then they post on social media and you're like, I
know you have that phone in your hand, and I
just want to know if we're hanging out on Wednesday.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
We're being spied on the way in that context, So
on that and this idea that we all feel a
little abandoned if we're left on red, what do you
think that messages you do have to respond to? And
how long is it okay to leave between Because this
original story, she was saying, a lot of people start
their text and I certainly do this sometimes with so
(26:09):
I just saw this, and she says that she has
a friend who she considers to have a very relaxed,
cool relationship with texting who never apologizes. It's just like
I got to it when I got to it. How
do you feel if people don't reply to your messages?
How long do you think it's okay?
Speaker 4 (26:23):
I assume that they've done the thing where they've opened it,
they've gone, I'll get back to that. They've then had
seven hundred and eighty other thoughts within two hours and
they've totally forgotten and that's fine. And if it's urgent.
I'll follow up, but I'm never ever getting my feelings
hurt that I haven't got a response.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
What about Eamia.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
I've got so many going at once that I don't notice.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
To be honest, sometimes I feel I've been many to
bring this up with your Maia. Sometimes you throw a
link in our chat and I go, I'll read that,
and then I don't get back to you, and I
feel like you're sitting there going they didn't read my link.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
It's true because Mia throws great links like the quality
is high. Yeah, I'm but it means probably at the
time she said, I don't have ten minutes to sit
and read that, so I'll be like, I'll get to
that later, by which time Maya will have forgotten about it.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I fear that I've hurt your feeling.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
So to be clear, because you're right, my love language
is sending links of things that I think people will
find interesting. I don't expect a response even necessarily. Ever,
it's more here's a little thing. I have to send
it now because I'm reading it now and I won't
find it again. But here's a little thing I thought
you might enjoy. Not let's discuss this together. Please read it.
(27:28):
Unless it's like, oh my god, yeah, it's just happen immediately.
Usually it's just I think you'll be interested in this.
But there's no burden of response a question, you know,
when messaging what's happened? Everyone introduced like the reactions. At first,
I thought that was going to make things better because
you could just do a little thumbs up to what
someone said. But now it's almost like nothing ever ends
(27:50):
because you do a thumbs up, and then someone does
a thumbs up to your thumbs up, and then I know.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
And also you know, sometimes I've got a friend who
I'll go so I'll meet you at seven and she'll
love heart it, And I'm.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Like, was that a yes? Or enough? Are we on
at seven?
Speaker 4 (28:06):
I don't know, be clear. I just love how it
was through it. Do not call me, stage text me,
and now we've gone to it, do not text me.
I don't want to reply. I also don't want to
be emailed. I definitely don't want you at my door.
I think that what we're saying is like go away.
And this is what o'donna who said, is that I
post on social to prove to myself that I exist question.
Speaker 6 (28:26):
Mind.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Yeah, we're also lonely, and.
Speaker 4 (28:27):
Yet there is a different thing. Often I'll see a
text come through and I go, I don't have the
social energy to construct a reply yet, and then I
have to wait for that to kind of come back.
It takes a different part of you to kind of
give it justice.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
I think it's not don't call me, don't text me,
don't anything me. It's I only want to communicate on
my terms when I want to communicate. Anything else is
an inconvenience, And it's to do with what we've discussed
lots of times about. However, thing's on demand now, so
we're like, I might have ten minutes to have a
proper catch up with you, but you might not, And
so now with voice notes, and then it's who's got
(29:00):
time for that one? And baby, sometimes we should just
bring back the phone call.
Speaker 4 (29:05):
Your favorite podcast is now a video but a vodcast
the future or crap Telly. That's a headline from the
Guardian last month, and it feels uncomfortably pointed. So if
you're big into podcasting, you might have noticed that a
lot of the blockbuster podcasts now if you're listening on Spotify,
like a video of that will come up at the
(29:25):
same time they're publishing full videos along with the audio.
And in February of this year, YouTube announced that it
had one billion users watching podcast content, meaning that it
has become the market leader in podcasting. It's bigger and
Apple bigger than Spotify. People are watching the podcasts.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Yeah, slightly dubious numbers in terms of I think the
way they measure a view of a podcast is like one.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
Second interesting, but still.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
I mean, you only just have to flick through your
social media, and all of my social media now is
pretty much just podcasts reels of podcasts.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
A lot of men I know are watching a Joe
Rogan like that. Stuff is really big. Whether we like
it or not, vodcasts are happening. They'll be coming to
streaming services, and this shift is in large part than
by gen z, who use YouTuber's background television in a
way that isn't native to me. Some industry insiders reckon
vodcasts are just crap telly, and there's resistance by many
(30:21):
who don't want to consume another form of entertainment that
has them gaping at a screen like they've loved how
refreshing podcasts are. Because It frees them from a screen
and they can go about their lives while listening.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
So most women are doing other things right now while
they're listening to this. I can see you. You are
washing up, you are going for a walk, you are
pretending to a boring story, or child is telling you.
Speaker 4 (30:43):
Yeah. Others, however, like the idea of seeing hosts that
they're familiar with and having them on in their house.
We're getting a lot of questions about our pivot because
we're in our new podcast era. We're in our vodcast era. Maya,
are we trying to be shitty television? Is that the strat?
Is that the strategy?
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Yeah, strat, that's definitely the strategy you mentioned, jen Z.
But the thing that's really driving it all, of course
is capitalism. Jesse, I can't believe goodness and the tech
platforms because the thing that's so great about podcasts is
that they're not algorithmic. At the moment, your podcast feed
wherever you listen to it, say, Spotify and Apple are
probably the two biggest platforms. Let's leave YouTube out of it.
(31:23):
You will see in chronological order the shows that you
follow and what they release.
Speaker 4 (31:28):
You can go and have a look at charts if
you want to try to see what's trending.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Yeah, and that's kept podcasts really beautiful and pure in
a way because it means that it's not just the
most extreme content that rises to the surface like it
does whenever an algorithm's introduced. But the problem with that
is that podcasts have always been hard to share and
hard for people to discover new ones because an algorithm
is not putting things into your feed that you think
(31:52):
you might be interested in. Now, we're not unhappy about that,
except for the part where it can be hard to
grow and get a new audience. And so that's when
you know, everything needs to be on social media. That's
the main form of marketing and pr these days, and
you need visuals to put on things like Instagram. And
so that's when everybody had to record their podcasts. And
(32:13):
then YouTube wanted a piece of the action, and instead
of just little snippets, people were like, well, we're already
brushing our hair and setting up cameras and editing it,
and that's already a pain in the neck an extra
at cost. We may as well do the whole thing
and chuck it on yet another platform. So that's what
we're all doing, and it's interesting because we have mixed
(32:34):
feelings about it. You know, if we had our way
purely from a podcasting point of view, we would prefer
to just have no cameras be in a studio because
it's more intimate. You're less conscious of how you look.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
One of the things we used to particularly like about
pure audio is that it just is a fact that
as soon as you can see someone talking, you're not
just listening to them talking. You are reading a whole
lot of cues from everything you can see from clearly
what they look like, in terms of have they brushed
their hair, have they done their makeup?
Speaker 2 (33:05):
What are they wearing? All the little clues, Oh, whats
that necklace? Me has got on? Oh, someone says a
bit tired today. Any TV presenter will.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
Tell you that they get more feedback about what they're
wearing and how they've done their lipstick female TV presenters
than anything they ever say or report. And so there's
something wonderfully freeing about the idea that no people are
just engaging with your voice and your thoughts and your ideas.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Those days are gone.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
We are now out of hiding, and I think it's
so fine like, I think it's absolutely fine, but it's
definitely a different relationship.
Speaker 4 (33:39):
I reckon for women in particular, the pivot will be
to having it on in the background. I've had a
lot of women I know talk about having a podcast
up on YouTube on their television while they go and
do something else, and they're kind of listening, and they
like the familiarity of a host who's voice. They recognize
the idea that you would sit down as some sort
(34:00):
of appointment viewing when that show comes out. I don't
think is probably realistic, but I think it's coming really
because we saw last week and talked about it on
the show, the axing of Q and A and the Project,
and the irony is that this is the bringback of
the panel show, like we're essentially a panel show and
haven't we seen that die? And there was a really
(34:21):
interesting article by Walid Ali in The Age at the
end of last week about how really this pivot has
a lot more to do with revenue than format, and
he was saying that on social media, on your TikTok, Instagram,
YouTube ads are so targeted. They've harvested so much data
about me that the ads, if I'm going to spend
(34:41):
money on an ad for nappies, then I want to
make sure I'm getting me who has kids in nappies.
Why would I put that on primetime television where most
of the people watching don't need nappies. And so that's
why there's more money in the kind of very targeted
social media world rather than social TV.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Commercial TV is broadcasting, and podcasts and other forms of
digital media tend to be narrow cast. So for example,
we're a podcast for women, that wouldn't be our primetime show,
and yet we are a daily show and we have
a really big audience. The other thing to note is
that it's all about choice. So we are now on YouTube.
(35:24):
You can watch us on YouTube, but nothing's going to change.
The podcast that you hear is going to be the same.
We don't make different creative decisions about what's in the
show because we're now had to build a studio and
do all of these things. For creators, it's more expensive
and it's harder, But for you, it's just about choice.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
And so if you listen to us on Spotify, if
you listen to us on Apple, no difference at all.
You will see some podcast videos on Spotify and sometimes
I wonder, Oh, if I don't want to watch the
video because I'm always doing something else, I'm not watching them,
will it still use up my data? It won't if
you've set your settings to not download video. So nothing
changes unless you go and seek it out out loud.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
As friends come into your life for a reason, a
season or a lifetime. So to podcast segments, don't worry.
The show's not going to be over, but we are
retiring a segment that we've done for a while that's
pretty popular, Best and Worst.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
We are big the grounds.
Speaker 4 (36:21):
I know people pissed, pissed, or maybe maybe she is going, yes,
you know what, shut the fuck up hearing about your life.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
We wanted to take you into the tent and explain
to you why. And we tried once before to get
rid of Best and Worse, and there was a big outcry,
and so we brought it back. But we are actually
getting rid of it this time, or retiring it, putting
it on hiatus, and sending it out to pasta for
the following reasons. The first is probably that, as you
can understand, when you're talking about the worst thing that
(36:51):
happened to you in a week, it's often something that
might involve other people in your life. In fact, it
usually almost always does all things that are private. It
might be work related things, it might be health related things,
it might be relationship things, it might be things about
your kids or your parents. And for us, we have
to protect the people in our lives. But then to
(37:13):
say my worst of the week was that I got
a parking ticket, or that I, you know, tripped over
a coffee on my shirt, or my dogs had a fight,
and that starts to not feel true to who we are.
And then you know, it's not to say that we're
not going to be still talking about our lives on
the show. We will be, of course, but there's something
(37:34):
about having to choose the best thing and the worst
thing that makes it quite extreme. And I've always said also,
it's better to share from a scar, not a wound.
When it's something that's literally happening in the last few days,
you often don't even know what to say about it.
Speaker 4 (37:49):
There's not a lot of wisdom to offer.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
No, here's the tell of when we knew it had
to happen. Brent got a stick stuck in his had,
and my first response was, at least I've got a
worse this week.
Speaker 4 (38:02):
We've all had those moments, and it was also a
low point where me or and I were jealous that
you had such and we were sitting around waiting for
a parking ticket or something so that we.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Had something to show great worst.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
So sometimes it means that you're kind of curating and
relating to your life through a slightly strange So I'm
sure we're still going to talk about all kinds of stuff,
all kinds of nonsense. We're still going to keep Fridays
light and fun. Right, yep, exactly right, But no best
and worse for now after the break, we have recommendations.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
We are still having recommendations.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
We are still telling you on Fridays in this particular
week what to watch this weekend.
Speaker 4 (38:42):
What unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday
and Thursday exclusively from Mum and Maya. Subscribers follow the
link in the show notes to get us in your
ears five days a week. And a huge thank you
to all our current subscribers.
Speaker 5 (39:03):
Vibes ideas atmosphere, something casual, something fun.
Speaker 4 (39:08):
This is my best recommendation.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
I feel like our recos this week because we've all
chosen the TV show, and I think that they are
very true to our personalities the TV shows we've chosen
this week. When we were talking about in the meeting,
I was like, that is the most Jesse recommendation of
all time.
Speaker 4 (39:25):
And it's going to be everyone's favorite. Don't even matter.
Speaker 3 (39:27):
Go with your recommendation of the weeklyase out louders.
Speaker 4 (39:31):
I have been waiting for this documentary. It was coming
on Netflix and it landed end of last week and
it is called titan the Ocean Gates Submersible Disare. Oh okay,
it is brilliant, so it's just come out. It is
about the twenty twenty three deep sea dive in the
submersible that ultimately imploded and killed lots of peace and
it killed five people. But the reason this documentary is
(39:53):
so brilliant is because it is about the hubris of
the CEO, the guy who created it. He had a
vision and saw himself as an Elon Musk, as a
Jeff Bezos type.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
There was no way of.
Speaker 6 (40:05):
Knowing where title was going to fail, but it was a.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
Mathematical certainty that it would fail.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
Stockton saw an opportunity to restart tourist physics to.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
Titanic Stockton fully believed in what he was doing and
that it would work. He wanted to fame to fuel
his his ego theme, I have.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
No desire to die.
Speaker 5 (40:33):
I understand this.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
Kind of risk.
Speaker 6 (40:35):
I thought Stockton was a borderline psychopath. How do you
manage a person like that who owns the company.
Speaker 4 (40:42):
It is the story of the descent of a lot
of his employees who were raising the alarm and saying,
I'm not comfortable with this. And what's fascinating is that
he got in it against the advice of everyone. He
would go down four thousand feet however deep. He wanted
to test it, and they were like, don't put a
human in it. Just send it down, but don't put
someone in it. And he would do it because of
(41:03):
his own ridiculous sort of ego, or also.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
That he just could not understand risk very well.
Speaker 4 (41:10):
And it did seem that way right And I won't
give away too much.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
But we know how it ended well.
Speaker 4 (41:15):
One of the most fascinating details, though, is that this
submersible was being made with carbon fiber, which had never
been done before. And if you can make a submersible
with a material that is cheaper and lighter, big deal. Right,
but what was happening and you can hear it the
amount of footage that they have. They always had go pros,
they had a videographer with them.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
And there's all that in the documentary.
Speaker 4 (41:36):
You can see down there. You can see what the
submersible looks.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Like, the six of that in terms of the people
who are down.
Speaker 4 (41:41):
So they don't have any footage from that one. They
have footage from the other kind of dives that they did.
But what you would hear is popping, really loud popping,
and it was the sound of the carbon fiber breaking
and everyone was going, you know, we know how this
is going to end. And so when these former employees
saw the story, they knew exactly what had happened. The
(42:02):
narrative is great and it is just a really well done,
well produced documentary. You have to watch it. It's on Netflix.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
Are you going to be watching that?
Speaker 1 (42:10):
No, I'm not going.
Speaker 4 (42:12):
To Maya, but different.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
It makes for different.
Speaker 4 (42:15):
It made me like you more. Can I tell you why?
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Why?
Speaker 2 (42:18):
Because I thought she wouldn't.
Speaker 4 (42:23):
Mayor has had some mad ideas, but none of them
involve a submersible. No, don't get me wrong. If you
made submersibles, I think you probably would make us get
into one and go come on, guys.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
Great content, do it for the ground.
Speaker 4 (42:37):
And sometimes you make us do unusual things.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
I've had to do some TikTok dancing out. Wasn't that
keen on exactly?
Speaker 4 (42:42):
Stakes are a bit lower exactly? And I went, you
know what, I appreciate that. I turned to Luca Mayor,
isn't that bad after all?
Speaker 1 (42:49):
So true? She may not understand risk, but she wouldn't
put us in a submersible.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Wasn't safe.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
I've got something very, very different to watch after that
has sent you into a spiral of despair. No, I
actually thought about watching that because it does look really,
really interesting. I just am finding the news is so
bleak at the moment. I just want to have a laugh.
And I started watching a show that kept being served
to me on Prime Video. It's called over Compensating.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
Welcome to College.
Speaker 4 (43:24):
You can be whoever you want to be here can
I'm Benny Cormen, I'm a man Innx's cousin.
Speaker 6 (43:33):
How the freshman ladies treat me? Either you're a dude?
Speaker 1 (43:42):
Who or? And it's written, directed, and stars a guy
called Benito's Skinner who's like His name on Instagram is
Benny Drama. He's a thirty one year old actor and
comedian and he wrote this story that's pretty much exactly
based on him. But it's fiction about a guy who
(44:04):
goes to college and he's like a jock and captain
of the football team, and he's gay and he's closeted, and
he meets this girl who's got her own story and
they become really close friends after trying to hook up,
and she helps him try to navigate coming out. Makes
it sound really serious, but it's not at all. It's
actually hilarious. The whole thing is really really funny. I
(44:28):
just loved it. Short episodes, yeah, short episodes. There's a
great supporting cast. They're juggling horrible hookups, flavored vodka, fake id's.
It's kind of like almost you don't know what period
of time it's set in, Like it's set in now,
in an American college, but it's also like a time before.
Like sometimes you can think, oh, everyone can come out,
like ben queer is cool and it's no big deal anymore,
(44:51):
but it actually is a big deal for a lot
of people, and everybody has a different story about how
they come out. And this one's just great. It's just
such a fun show, overcompensating on Prime video.
Speaker 3 (45:01):
So I'm not actually here right now. I am so
obsessed with this TV show that I have just discovered
that I am currently rolling around on a sandy beach
with a really handsome hunter who can slay a dragon
with his bare hands.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
Not a dragon, a lion. A lion with his bare hand.
Speaker 4 (45:15):
Oh my god, I've not heard of these.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
Harry P. Ruster, is what I'm talking about.
Speaker 3 (45:18):
She's nodding, because I have recently discovered my first show
in the Yellowstone Universe. Do you know what I'm talking about?
Speaker 4 (45:25):
Yes, Yellowstone, everyone who watches says is brilliant, But I
didn't know there was a universe.
Speaker 3 (45:30):
This guy, I don't know a lot about him is
called Taylor Sheridan. His politics might be a little dodgy,
so we won't go too deep into that, but he
has created Yellowstone, which is this massive smash for paramount
that stars Kevin Costner, and it's been It's one of
the most watched shows in the world, absolutely huge on
a ranch and so popular that it now has spin offs.
It has one I think it's called nineteen eighteen or something.
(45:52):
And the one that I have started watching at the
recommendation of a friend specifically because of this love story
at the heart of it, is called nineteen twenty three.
Speaker 6 (46:01):
You've been missus Dutton, though he would seems we're neighbors,
have acquired the Stafford Ranch. Well, this is the yellow
Stone and you have no rights here, jegab you can't
start a range war. Range wars already started.
Speaker 5 (46:21):
How much you'll ide you on?
Speaker 6 (46:23):
I want the whole valley.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
Either we take this fight to them or it's common.
Speaker 6 (46:30):
Us men kill quick with a bullet or a nurse,
but they're fighters with me, and I kill much slower.
Speaker 3 (46:40):
Is that when it's set, it's set in nineteen twenty three.
It'd be weird if it was it Jesse in between
the wars, right, And it's about this family in Montana,
the patriarch matriarchy, Harrison Ford and Helen Mirren. So we're
not fucking about here, We're not fucking about Wow, we
are top tiering it, right. Harrison Ford and Helen Mirren
are the people on the ranch who like that. And
(47:00):
you know it's under threat from a mining company and
there's all this stuff going on. They want their long
lost nephew to come back and help them defend the
legacy because he is a tough guy. He traumatized by
World War One, is now in Africa where he is
paid to go and kill man eating lions and leopards, right,
Could there be a more manly job than that? No, anyway,
(47:21):
So we go to Africa, we meet him. He's called
Spencer Dunne. He's played by this guy called Brandon Sclennar
and I had never met him before, but now he's
all I think about.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
He was apparel if the good guy in it ends
with us?
Speaker 4 (47:33):
Oh gorgeous, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (47:35):
Unbelievably gorgeous. And he meets this young english woman blah
blah blah. Anyway, we don't need to know any more
details except that their chemistry you know. Sometimes and maybe
this is just me, but I remember now all the
way back to being a kid, that you'd watched some
shows where the chemistry between a couple was so amazing
it just like.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
Swept you up in it.
Speaker 4 (47:55):
Is it humpy?
Speaker 2 (47:56):
It's humpy?
Speaker 1 (47:56):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (47:57):
In there having these two people are having a lot
of great sex. But they're not having a lot of
great sex. Some other people in the house are but
our friend Spencer and his fancy English lady Alex having
a lot of great sex. But it's not corny like
it's what they call closed door sex, right, So you
see everything leaving offit disappointed a little bit. His shirt's
(48:17):
off a lot though. There's also this very distressing subplot
going on that's about Indigenous Americans who've been taken from
their families and are in a brutal school run by nuns.
Sounds familiar to Australian viewers, and I've just found myself
completely swept up in it and it's all I want
to do.
Speaker 4 (48:34):
I've sold me on it.
Speaker 3 (48:35):
I want to go back and I want to watch
these people do whatever they're doing. And I don't really
want Harrison Ford to keep his rent because he's a
bit of a dick, but I really really want my
matexpense anyway, So that was a sity.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
I'm only in season one, so don't actually anyhow it happens.
There are two.
Speaker 3 (48:48):
Seasons and the second one just dropped, so it's called
nineteen twenty three.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
It's on Paramount Plus.
Speaker 3 (48:53):
It's part of the Yellowstone thing and I am now
officially obsessed.
Speaker 1 (48:57):
That's like when I got really into Downton Abbey and Bridgington. Yes,
because the steaks, it just felt so otherworldly. No one
had phones, and the Gilded Age is coming back too.
I'm very excited about it.
Speaker 3 (49:10):
Is interesting because I'm not I'm not always a historical
drama person, but sometimes you know, you just get so
swept up in it and maybe you need it at
that time or whatever. But it's an escape, a proper escape. Anyway,
I'm loving it and that's my Raco. That is all
we've got time for today, out louders, thank you for
being with us this week. As always, We're going to
(49:30):
be back in your ears on Monday, of course, Jesse
and Mia. What else have we got to tell everybody.
Speaker 4 (49:34):
A big thank you to our team group executive producer
Ruth Devine, executive producer Emmeline Gazillis, our audio producer is
Leah Porges, video.
Speaker 1 (49:43):
Producer Josh Green, our junior content producers Coco and Tessa,
and our studios at Muma Mea are styled with furniture
from Fenton and Fenton. Visit Fenton and Fenton dot com
dot au. Before we go, I want to give everyone
a little treat with another recommendation. I want to play
us out with a beautiful song by a very dear
friend of mine that's come out this week. It's pure
(50:04):
weekend vibes. Her name is Jackie Oberg. She's talented and brilliant.
Here is her So if I could beat my silhouette,
We'll put a link in the show notes if you're
listening on Spotify.
Speaker 4 (50:14):
Bye bye bye.
Speaker 1 (50:17):
Be alone, shy love, whom I do you?
Speaker 2 (50:29):
If I could only be mysel? Would I still be
too much?
Speaker 1 (50:39):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (50:40):
You love?
Speaker 4 (50:41):
Memory?
Speaker 2 (50:43):
Would let you my.
Speaker 1 (50:48):
Jesus really love. Shout out to any MoMA Maya subscribers listening.
If you love the show and want to support us
as well, subscribing to Mom and Maya is the very
best way to do so. There is a link in
the episode description
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Welcome to Mamma Mia out Loud, where women come for
a debrief.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
I'm Holly Wainwright.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
I'm mea Friedman, and I'm Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
And here's what made our agenda for today, Friday, the
twentieth of June.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Why Sarah Jessica.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Parker might be one of the few women alive who
has never watched Carrie Bradshaw have sex, get dressed, or
type charmingly on a laptop.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Plus, everyone wants to text less, but nobody wants to
be left on red And is anyone else exhausted by
having to be always on? Not just at work but
with friends and family.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
And we've got some recommendations for you. We are all
bringing you something to watch this weekend, and we have
some news. We do great there.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
But first I have a question. Did everyone else know
that Bluey is a girl?
Speaker 5 (01:05):
Yes? No?
Speaker 4 (01:05):
Yes? What did you think Bluey was a boy?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
I don't watch blue my children too well?
Speaker 4 (01:10):
What did you think blue was a boy?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
I think I did?
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Yes, because blue is a boy's color.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
No, Blue is a girl and has a sister named Bingo.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
My mind is blown. So I kind of thought that
Bingo was a girl, but I assumed that Bluie was
a boy, and I learnt it because I also am
out of the loop of children's programs. But now spending
more time with my granddaughter, I've very much entered the.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
World of Blue.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Everybody says it's the best kids TV show I've ever made,
and it's so successful all over the world.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Yeah, I'm back in the Wiggles. Goodness, there've been some
changes there. There's a lot of them now. Yeah, they've
all got different names. And Jeff isn't around, must have
gone sleep permanently.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
But Blue is a girl.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
I didn't know that.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
Okay, I have something I need to add because I
was away with friends over the weekend and there were
eight of us and two of us didn't know this.
Did you guys know that oats and porridge were the
same thing? Yes? Stop it?
Speaker 2 (02:05):
How did you not stop?
Speaker 4 (02:07):
I think that they were thought porridge was likes ludge.
I thought porridge was like a mucky wet. I thought
it was just it's.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Made from oat.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Where do you think it came from the ground.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
I thought that porridge was the thing you bought and
oats is the thing you buy. Separate things.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
What did you think you did with oats?
Speaker 4 (02:23):
I thought you made oats.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Can we revise? He is the smart one, you know
how that's always nothing. Jesse is the smart one.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Not today.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
My friend and I were just our minds were absolutely blown.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Porridge and the same thing.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Wow, I've been off the show for a couple of days.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
The thing I like the absolute best is that Miya
thought that they shou rocky.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Now I've forgotten which it is. Now I'm terrified and
I'm just going to call him Rihanna's boyfriend my life.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Which is very out loud of us to just make
him Rihanna's boyfriend. Anyway, if you had spent decades on
one of the most iconic TV shows of all time,
in glorious coture, full hair and makeup and getting to
snog loads of handsome, craggy guys, wouldn't you want to
watch yourself doing it?
Speaker 2 (03:14):
No? I would.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Apparently if you're SJP you definitely wouldn't. And unless you're
trapped under something heavy, you probably know that she's currently
starring and executive producer, ing sho we make that a
thing absolutely, and just like that the Sex and the
City spin off. People have a lot of opinions about
that show. They particularly had a lot of opinions about
(03:37):
something that happened quite early on in this season with
John Corbet, who plays Aiden in his pickup truck. We
may have talked about it. Here's Howard Stern asking SJP
what she thought about that moment that revealed the truth
that she doesn't watch it.
Speaker 6 (03:50):
It's is such a weird moment where he's having phone
sex with you and he's about to, you know, play
with himself when he's talking to you, and he licks
his hand and he takes his tongue and he starts
licking his hand and then he plays with his penis.
Do you know he did that in this thing? Because
you probably filmed it, And have you seen this scene
(04:10):
at all?
Speaker 5 (04:11):
No, I've not seen that.
Speaker 6 (04:13):
Is that really true? You really have not seen it?
Speaker 5 (04:15):
Seen it? No?
Speaker 1 (04:19):
I can't comment on that.
Speaker 5 (04:20):
My lawyer has advised me.
Speaker 6 (04:23):
Is that true?
Speaker 1 (04:24):
I have no attorney?
Speaker 6 (04:26):
No? No, But I mean, is it true that you're
up to you really have no knowledge of it?
Speaker 5 (04:30):
Is I haven't seen most of Sex and the City ever,
and I haven't seen and just like that. Every now
and then Michael Patrick will say to me, please watch
episode you know, so I don't know. This is the
first I'm hearing about that.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
I found this just weird. I have to say on
a few levels. First of all, as an executive producer
on a show, you have to watch it a lot.
I guess there are different versions of being an executive producer,
but part of what you do is you make decisions
early on about casting and about scripts, and then you
(05:06):
watch the dailies and you watch the edits of the
show and you give feedback. And she's been an executive
producer of Sex and the City and now and.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Just like that.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
So I guess what this is suggesting is that it's
perhaps a vanity credit or that she inhabits. No, that's
a really common thing. Sometimes it means that you get
more money out of the back end, because you can
charge a fee for being the star, and you charge
a fee for being the executive producer. But interestingly, one
of the reasons that Kim Ktrall, who played Samantha, gave
(05:39):
for wanting to not come back is that she said, well,
Sarah Jessica Parker was an executive producer. I feel like
we all should have been, and just like that, Cynthia
Nixon who plays Miranda, and christ And Davis who plays
Charlotte both are executive producers.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
I don't think it's vanity though, because I think that
Sarah Jessica Parker is interested in different things. So if
you listen, for example, I remember there was a little
doco about and just like that in the first season
where they talked about how obsessive she was about Carrie's closet,
Like I don't mean literally the clothes, but the way
it would be organized, the apartments, the way this would
(06:12):
be there and this would be there, and in a
little code the set dresses made it sound like it
was kind of a punish, you know what I mean.
I think that there are things that Sarah Jessica Parker
is incredibly detailed focused on, but the end result doesn't
seem like it's that, do you understand it?
Speaker 4 (06:30):
I wonder if this is how you survive fifty years
in the industry is by not watching it, And I
reckon that a lot of actors when they sit down
at a premiere or when their film is released or whatever.
I don't reckon that they've watched it. I think that
we hear a lot of creatives talk about the process
and not necessarily being connected to the outcome. And I
(06:52):
just reckon that she is very invested in story. She's
a Booker Prize judge this year. I think she really
cares about words. She's a lover of like literary fiction
and that kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
She's got a book in print.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
She's got a book imprint which has many as one
of her many things.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
Yes, So I.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Love talking about books, and she is a big advocate
for public libraries. And she talks about growing up. She's
one of like eight or nine kids, and she was
never allowed to leave the house, none of them unless
they had a book with them.
Speaker 6 (07:21):
Oh.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
I love that. Can we please talk about the other
tidbit that has come out of this press tour, which
is that Sarah Jessica Parker alleges that she reads up
to two books a day.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Many books do you read a week or a month?
Speaker 7 (07:34):
Well, right now I'm judging the Booker. So I'm reading
two books today. Sometimes it's an honor, it's a privilege.
It's intense to be reading this the volume. Iss, it's
kind of hard to convey what it's like to have
as many books as we are given the opportunity to
read a book. Yeah, it's quite something.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
What do we make of that?
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Well, I've listened to interviews with her before where she
says that she reads constantly. She's not a social media person, right,
we all know that she's not a phone person. She
probably doesn't even have a phone. She's one of those
I think and shed.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
It's like a giant Jane Nelson character. And she often
talks a bit like that.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
She does.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
And she says that she reads in the makeup chair.
Imagine how much time she spends in a makeup chair
and has done for fifty years. She says that she
reads on the subway, she reads all the time, she
reads between takes. She sounds very much like that is
her passion. And if you are a book of Prize Judge,
I can't believe she's a Book of Prize Jge.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
That is such a flex go SJP.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
It's such a prestigious literary award in the world, and
you have to read all the books.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
And makes will That's what she said is she's just
come off obviously season three of and just like that,
she's in a period of her career where then she
has some downtime, so of course she has capacity. I'm like,
that's the dream to read two books a day.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
But Holly's right, even when you're working as an actor,
there is so much downtime. That's one of the reasons
that I can't handle television. And I only went to
the set one time. There is so much waiting, so
much waiting. I was listening to the and just like
that podcast with Michael Patrick King, who is the big
boss of the show, and he was talking about this
scene in episode I think it's either two or three
(09:12):
with the rats I love them, And that was actually
filmed on the sound stage and they had to keep
gathering all the rats that I've assumed they were cgr rats.
(09:35):
They had to gather all the rats and then release
them again and again, and each time they were trying
to do that, it took ages and it was two
o'clock in the morning. You know, so, Carrie, Oh, sorry,
Satan's ca Park. It does have a lot of time.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
The thing that's shocking to people about this, I think
about the idea she doesn't watch it is because Jesse's right.
Lots of actors say they don't watch their work. For
a lot of them, it's part of their process, Like
they're like, I do the work and then I have
to disassociate, which seems very well adjusted, but also a
tiny bit arrogant in a way, because you learn when
you watch yourself back, right, But I guess if you've
been doing it for fifty years, maybe you don't need to.
But the thing that makes this so strange is Carrie
(10:08):
Bradshaw is someone that we all know so well. I
was thinking about it. I don't think there is a
fictional character that I have probably spent more time with
in my entire life than Carrie Bradshaw. And so to
most of us, s JP is Carrie Bradshaw, and it's
like she's someone that we all know really well. But
it's like s JP's never met her, you know what
I mean, Like she doesn't view her the way we
(10:30):
view her.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Have you ever listened to Kristin Davis's podcast it's called
It's Really Weird, and she's very elevated. But anyway, when
she has s JP on, the whole episode is just
her explaining to s JP what happened on the show.
I'm serious, but I have a question for you both
in terms of it's one thing not to watch you
(10:52):
work back, and a lot of actors don't I get it.
We should technically listen back to every episode of this show.
I don't do.
Speaker 6 (10:59):
You know.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
I go through phases where I do it is the
way you learn, And then I go through phases where
I'm like, I couldn't think of anything worse having to
listen to me because I just go listen to them.
Number of times I did that, listen to the way
I said that highly critical And that's what I've heard
as JP say is I would hate myself, and I've
heard Reese Witherspoon say the same thing. I would go
(11:20):
into a self hating spiral. All I can see is
all the choices I didn't make, all the mistakes I made,
And I get that, right, Yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Get that too.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
But my question is it's one thing not watching you
work back, but as an executive producer and star of
a show, when the whole cultural conversation in the reaction
to your episode was about the lickic we spoke about it,
and the week before it was about the funny puppet
um habit she was wearing. Do you really think she
doesn't know that? Do you really think she's not aware of.
Speaker 4 (11:49):
The crit conversation? She doesn't know it. And what we
need to remember is that Sarah Jessica Parker is the
antithesis of Carrie Bradshaw and for the twenty years of
The Sex and the City Cannon she has sat down
for interviews, even the Howard Sterne one was a perfect
example to be asked questions that I believe make her uncomfortable.
I don't think she likes talk about.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Why did she go on Howard Sterne. I, Oh, she didn't.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
That's what she's done it for years.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
But that's what he does. Right as we know, promoting
a piece of work, a movie album, a TV show
is very different to what it used to be. You know,
in the nineties and the early two thousands, you do
a high profile interview with Vogue, Vanity Fair, you might
do a cover, you might do a couple of newspaper interviews,
a couple of TV interviews, one of those junkets. But
now you've got to go on a chicken shop date
(12:36):
with ameliads Moldenberg. You've got to eat hot wings for BuzzFeed.
You've got to go and talk to Howard Stern about
your sex life. You've got to sit down with call
her daddy Alex Creeper and talk about your abortion.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
It's like, I don't think you have to if you're SJP.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
I was thinking about this because you're so right that
whether or not the actor or the producer chooses to
engage with the conversation. Think about White lotus right, they
say that Mike White is really into that.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
He loves that.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
But also you can see some of the breakout stars
of this recent series loved it, like Walton Goggins, Oh
my God, Like he was the guy who played Rick.
Now he's said, lean into that so Hardy popped up everywhere.
Patrick Schwuerzner was everywhere. Patrick Schwarznegger was everywhere. They were
leaning into it really hard. They were part of that conversation.
And I think that an actor at the level of SJP,
(13:22):
who lets be clear, we reference some of the businesses
she has, it's not like she needs the money. I
think she genuinely sees it as work and herself very separately,
and she would be like, I will do four pieces
of content.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Well, you're contractually obliged to promote a show when you're
the star, and the whole point of the show is
very much around her, and it's sold around her. But
I do feel it's a little bit disingenuous. Well maybe
that's just her stick that her publicist didn't go, Hey,
Howard Stone's probably gonna ask you about the handlicking scene.
Speaker 4 (13:52):
The more I learn about her, the more I love her.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
I think she's fascinating.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
I love her. I think she's the perfect celebrity. There
was this great anecdote that she told about being in
an airport. Robbie Williams recently talked about this, having people
come up and wanting to get a photo, and because
Sarah Jessica Parker has we believe, never owned a phone,
she doesn't know what's happening, and she will turn to them.
And she said, I turned to this woman in the
airport and said, you have not even said hello to me.
(14:15):
What I will give you is a conversation, and it
will be a lot more meaningful than a selfie. I
just kind of love her.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
She's like from another tongue. I am worried about her
a little bit in the show. She looks pretty miserable.
I mean, it would be right that her character would
be depressed. She's a widow. I think, you know, Big
didn't die that long ago.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
So funny, That's not how I'm reading it at all.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
I'm really enjoying watching her be sword of single again,
Like I'm loving seeing her in that house. I'm loving
seeing her evolve. I think I loved actually the episode
where she went to Virginia and Aidan's family, because she's
talked about this, and I think it's true. I know
everyone hates Carrie, and I'm a vigorous carry apologist.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Not everyone hates Carrie. She's very polarizing, polarized, but there
are like entire websites about like why people should hate
her so much. I actually really like Carrie, and I
also think that she has changed, and she has you
think she's I think she's changed, and I think she's going.
Like what they're trying to show in this these are
episodes is like her going to Virginia and understanding, actually
(15:12):
understanding what it means that Aiden has a family rather
than just the concept of it, you know, and kind
of tasting.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
That and being like, do I want to be part
of that? I love the handsome rider downstairs. I'm very
into it.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
She made a point to about the Carrie hate and
how there are television shows that have been made about
mass murderers, you know, a male mass murderer who doesn't
get half the hate that Carrie Bradshaw does, and how
there is something deeply sexist about our reading of Carrie.
And I think that that's very true.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Is it sexist or is it that we you know,
we talked on Monday Show about how when people find
out who their trolls are, it's often someone who's essentially
jealous of that.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
I don't think we know what to do with complicated I.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Don't mean jealous necessarily of Carrie. But is it sexist
or is it what Holly was saying in that we've
spent so much time we identify with this character, you
know that whole thing. Are you a Charlotte?
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Are you carry?
Speaker 1 (16:06):
And everyone wanted to be a Carrie that when they
behave in ways that we don't like, we feel personally.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
Betrayed or do like breaking bad or something like. There
are shows about complicated men and we follow them every
step and go I still like him? Has he killed
forty five people?
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Sure?
Speaker 4 (16:22):
Whereas Carrie makes a morally dubious decision and we go.
I think that's some wrong with her.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
This is the thing about likable women, right, is that
I like a lot of women, and some of my
great friends, and I'm certain also me who are not perfect,
and who makes selfish decisions sometimes and who sometimes are
a bit annoying and sometimes are a bit self obsessed
and sometimes go out with the wrong guy. Like, that's
what we're actually like. And so I think that all
the things you can throw at a carry that aren't real,
(16:51):
you know, obviously obviously, the wardrobe, the money, all that stuff.
Actually the fact that she's a bit annoying sometimes is
the most real thing about her. She's also very funny.
I love watching her. I think she gets the best lines.
I like the lines on her face and on the edge.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
I'm a big fan.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Yeah, I think the criticism when I feel frustrated with her,
it's because she hasn't evolved, not because she has. Like
the whole thing with the shoes just feels so one note,
and the you know that whole storyline where it was
the thumbs up emoji or the thumbs down, like it
just seems very stuck in the nineties, both with her
cultural references, you know, when she was like, oh little
(17:26):
house on the carry instead of there's no trad wife reference.
It's almost like she exists, not in this world.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
But I think she does. Carry.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Isn't a TikTok person, Not every woman who certainly the
age that she is as plugged into the zeitgeist as
you are. I mean, as cool and relevant and youthful
as you are, my friend.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
After the break, what is an acceptable amount of time
to wait until you text someone back. There've been a
few stories and newsletters and conversations in the zeitgeist over
the last couple of months about the volume of texting
that we are becoming accustomed to. The latest of these
(18:09):
is an article that was written in New York Magazine
by the author Catherine jess and Morton, who has little kids,
and she was talking about the burden of texting for parents,
and she talks about now, when you have a play date,
the other parent expects constant updates via text, photos, videos
(18:29):
of what's happening. And she says that she finds that
like completely counterintuitive and like a real burden, because she said,
the point of me having another kid over is so
that my kid can play and I can get some
other stuff done, and vice versa. For my kid's at
someone else's house. I don't want to have to be
responding to constant updates about how they're going.
Speaker 4 (18:51):
She called it maternal self soothing, which I thought was
a really, really good phrase. It's almost pacifying for the
person doing it to feel as though every time they
have an anxious thought about their child or they worry,
they almost want to perform the fact they're thinking about
their child.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Well, it was.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Interesting because I had Luna for the weekend and you're away, Jesse,
and when I have her, I do have that track
going in my mind. I should capture this on video,
I should capture this one.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
And I have a track going in my mind that
if I haven't checked in a few hours. Do people
think I'm not thinking about her?
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Yes? And I did think that. And I even said
to Luca when I spoke to someone, like, what are
you guys up to? You're not behaving in the normal way.
You're not texting as often as you do, because usually
when I've got her, it's like how is she? Especially
from him? Actually, anyway, it just turned out that you
were just having a brain time.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
So when you just said I did think that. I
don't think that Jesse didn't care about her daughter anymore.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
No, I thought that they were to say kind of
Shenanigan's weird sex weekend or something. I didn't know what
was going on. And then also I'm like, well, why
do I keep texting? Do I keep texting to show
you how much fun she's having?
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Is that about me?
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Or is that about making you feel better? It's an
interesting thing, But she says also, because when your kids
are too young to have a phone, you choose not
to give them a phone. All of this parent communication,
the WhatsApp groups, the messages through playdates, the organizing of
the social things falls disproportionately on the mother. So that's
the parenting side of it. But then there's also the
(20:26):
group texts. Caroline o'donahue wrote a piece in her newsletter
a few weeks ago saying everyone wants to text less,
but nobody wants to be left on red. What did
you think of that?
Speaker 3 (20:37):
It's one hundred percent true. We all are obsessed with
being off our phones more, but we all demand instant
responses to anything that.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
We put out there.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
So what I loved, particularly about what Caroline o'donahue wrote,
which I really related to, is that she basically was
saying that she was a bad texter, and she sort
of threw out a few reasons of why she was
a bad texter, and then she wrote this, She said,
The thing is, I don't really want to be better
at it. I'm bad at texting. I don't want to
be good at it. I hate my phone, and so
do you. I feel vulgar and sick when I spend
(21:07):
too much time on it, and a never to Texting
takes time. But equally, I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings,
particularly the feelings of people I genuinely care about. It
shouldn't be a problem, and yet it is. Everyone I
know is trying to cut down on their screen time.
No one wants to be left on read. When we're
left on red, it feels very close to being thrown
out of the nest. When we fail to text others back,
(21:29):
we see it as morally neutral behavior, but when others
do it to us, it creates sincere panic. And that
is so true. How many times have you sent a
text to somebody and they haven't responded. And then they
haven't responded. Your mind goes to, she's mad with me?
Speaker 2 (21:44):
What have I done? Why haven't they responded? Was I rude?
And you go back and you read the text. Was
I rude? Did I phrase that wrongly? Should I? Blah
blah blah.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
But when you don't reply to a text, you're like,
that's fine, I don't need to reply to that.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
And then when someone texts you and says is everything okay?
Or are you mad with me? It feels like, well,
it's another bit.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
It's interesting because it brings up the question of which
texts require a response and which ones don't.
Speaker 4 (22:08):
The point there, o'donna who makes is that we have
now seen constant connection as a proxy for intimacy. So
if it's not a constant boom boom boom boom boom
bom boom, then we're not as close as we were.
And sometimes with friendships they go through a really intense
period and then you go, we haven't texted. I think
this all the time. I think about someone and I go,
I should text them, And it's like we can't have
(22:30):
that feeling without doing it. Whereas it used to be
that it was a phone caller. It was a letter
which by.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Are you'd organized to get together in Yes.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
But by that nature it wasn't always accessible and always possible.
So she has this point about how just like in
the nineteen fifties, when technology meant that vacuuming was easier,
like you could finally vacuum rather than sweep, and you
had a dishwasher, and you had all of these new
things to make cleaning easier, and they were going to
afford women more time. What happened was that our standards
(23:00):
for cleaning just kept rising, and the same has happened
with our standards for socializing. And it's interesting how disproportionately
this has impacted women, because I don't know men who
are having this same the mental load of all of this.
We talked about this in our live show, that the
mental load of the group chat is something that women
are wearing in a way that men aren't. They don't
(23:22):
have the same levels of guilt and responsibility to their friends,
which I actually think there's something kind of admirable about that.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
It also must change the texture of our relationships.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
I don't know if you remember.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
There was a skit in a Chris Rock special once
where he talked about how marriage is before constant texting
and marriage is after a different thing and they should
be classified in a different time frame because you used
to leave the house in the morning, spend all day
doing whatever you were doing, come back together in the
evening and you hadn't had any contact all day. And
you know, lots of people still like that, I guess,
(23:53):
but most of us are very much like just checking
in and could you do and house things and did
you believe this happened? And that heightened number of interactions
means there's less to discuss in real time. But also
does it kind of make your relationship more or intense
or do.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
You burn through relationships faster because you've reached the point
of peak everything, like you've just known each other really,
really well. And I think that group chats are a
specific type of connection because they can just go all
the time, like constantly, and there might be twenty people
in them. But I don't necessarily think that people who
are bad at texting. I never get the sense that
(24:31):
I'm mad at them all. I think they don't like me.
I think they have a different relationship with their phone.
And I'm quite aware that my relationship with my phone
is a problem i'd like to fix.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
I find group chats in a way easier. And I
know that you know some people are in group chats,
some people aren't. But what I've made peace with now
is sometimes a group chat can be going on and
you're not in it, and you're not involved, and it's okay.
It's almost like social media, like when you pick up
your phone to look at social media, you don't go
back to the beginning of You just jump in the
(25:03):
stream wherever you are, write it for a little while
and then post.
Speaker 5 (25:06):
Now.
Speaker 4 (25:06):
It's also that, and I think it was O'donahu who
made this point. I mean, our work communications are in
the same place that our social communications are, and every
notification from a friend's message to an urgent work email
is presented the same on a phone. So you get
this spike of like must open now. And what I've
tried to do is go do not open the message
(25:27):
until you can answer it. So if that means that
at nine pm you go, all right, I'm going to
because then I enjoy it, like I sit down and
I go, here's my time to go through this. And
she speaks to about the experience and this is something
new where you're waiting on a message from someone and
then they post on social media and you're like, I
know you have that phone in your hand, and I
just want to know if we're hanging out on Wednesday.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
We're being spied on the way in that context, So
on that and this idea that we all feel a
little abandoned if we're left on red, what do you
think that messages you do have to respond to? And
how long is it okay to leave between Because this
original story, she was saying, a lot of people start
their text and I certainly do this sometimes with so
(26:09):
I just saw this, and she says that she has
a friend who she considers to have a very relaxed,
cool relationship with texting who never apologizes. It's just like
I got to it when I got to it. How
do you feel if people don't reply to your messages?
How long do you think it's okay?
Speaker 4 (26:23):
I assume that they've done the thing where they've opened it,
they've gone, I'll get back to that. They've then had
seven hundred and eighty other thoughts within two hours and
they've totally forgotten and that's fine. And if it's urgent.
I'll follow up, but I'm never ever getting my feelings
hurt that I haven't got a response.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
What about Eamia.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
I've got so many going at once that I don't notice.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
To be honest, sometimes I feel I've been many to
bring this up with your Maia. Sometimes you throw a
link in our chat and I go, I'll read that,
and then I don't get back to you, and I
feel like you're sitting there going they didn't read my link.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
It's true because Mia throws great links like the quality
is high. Yeah, I'm but it means probably at the
time she said, I don't have ten minutes to sit
and read that, so I'll be like, I'll get to
that later, by which time Maya will have forgotten about it.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I fear that I've hurt your feeling.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
So to be clear, because you're right, my love language
is sending links of things that I think people will
find interesting. I don't expect a response even necessarily. Ever,
it's more here's a little thing. I have to send
it now because I'm reading it now and I won't
find it again. But here's a little thing I thought
you might enjoy. Not let's discuss this together. Please read it.
(27:28):
Unless it's like, oh my god, yeah, it's just happen immediately.
Usually it's just I think you'll be interested in this.
But there's no burden of response a question, you know,
when messaging what's happened? Everyone introduced like the reactions. At first,
I thought that was going to make things better because
you could just do a little thumbs up to what
someone said. But now it's almost like nothing ever ends
(27:50):
because you do a thumbs up, and then someone does
a thumbs up to your thumbs up, and then I know.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
And also you know, sometimes I've got a friend who
I'll go so I'll meet you at seven and she'll
love heart it, And I'm.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Like, was that a yes? Or enough? Are we on
at seven?
Speaker 4 (28:06):
I don't know, be clear. I just love how it
was through it. Do not call me, stage text me,
and now we've gone to it, do not text me.
I don't want to reply. I also don't want to
be emailed. I definitely don't want you at my door.
I think that what we're saying is like go away.
And this is what o'donna who said, is that I
post on social to prove to myself that I exist question.
Speaker 6 (28:26):
Mind.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Yeah, we're also lonely, and.
Speaker 4 (28:27):
Yet there is a different thing. Often I'll see a
text come through and I go, I don't have the
social energy to construct a reply yet, and then I
have to wait for that to kind of come back.
It takes a different part of you to kind of
give it justice.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
I think it's not don't call me, don't text me,
don't anything me. It's I only want to communicate on
my terms when I want to communicate. Anything else is
an inconvenience, And it's to do with what we've discussed
lots of times about. However, thing's on demand now, so
we're like, I might have ten minutes to have a
proper catch up with you, but you might not, And
so now with voice notes, and then it's who's got
(29:00):
time for that one? And baby, sometimes we should just
bring back the phone call.
Speaker 4 (29:05):
Your favorite podcast is now a video but a vodcast
the future or crap Telly. That's a headline from the
Guardian last month, and it feels uncomfortably pointed. So if
you're big into podcasting, you might have noticed that a
lot of the blockbuster podcasts now if you're listening on Spotify,
like a video of that will come up at the
(29:25):
same time they're publishing full videos along with the audio.
And in February of this year, YouTube announced that it
had one billion users watching podcast content, meaning that it
has become the market leader in podcasting. It's bigger and
Apple bigger than Spotify. People are watching the podcasts.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Yeah, slightly dubious numbers in terms of I think the
way they measure a view of a podcast is like one.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
Second interesting, but still.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
I mean, you only just have to flick through your
social media, and all of my social media now is
pretty much just podcasts reels of podcasts.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
A lot of men I know are watching a Joe
Rogan like that. Stuff is really big. Whether we like
it or not, vodcasts are happening. They'll be coming to
streaming services, and this shift is in large part than
by gen z, who use YouTuber's background television in a
way that isn't native to me. Some industry insiders reckon
vodcasts are just crap telly, and there's resistance by many
(30:21):
who don't want to consume another form of entertainment that
has them gaping at a screen like they've loved how
refreshing podcasts are. Because It frees them from a screen
and they can go about their lives while listening.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
So most women are doing other things right now while
they're listening to this. I can see you. You are
washing up, you are going for a walk, you are
pretending to a boring story, or child is telling you.
Speaker 4 (30:43):
Yeah. Others, however, like the idea of seeing hosts that
they're familiar with and having them on in their house.
We're getting a lot of questions about our pivot because
we're in our new podcast era. We're in our vodcast era. Maya,
are we trying to be shitty television? Is that the strat?
Is that the strategy?
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Yeah, strat, that's definitely the strategy you mentioned, jen Z.
But the thing that's really driving it all, of course
is capitalism. Jesse, I can't believe goodness and the tech
platforms because the thing that's so great about podcasts is
that they're not algorithmic. At the moment, your podcast feed
wherever you listen to it, say, Spotify and Apple are
probably the two biggest platforms. Let's leave YouTube out of it.
(31:23):
You will see in chronological order the shows that you
follow and what they release.
Speaker 4 (31:28):
You can go and have a look at charts if
you want to try to see what's trending.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Yeah, and that's kept podcasts really beautiful and pure in
a way because it means that it's not just the
most extreme content that rises to the surface like it
does whenever an algorithm's introduced. But the problem with that
is that podcasts have always been hard to share and
hard for people to discover new ones because an algorithm
is not putting things into your feed that you think
(31:52):
you might be interested in. Now, we're not unhappy about that,
except for the part where it can be hard to
grow and get a new audience. And so that's when
you know, everything needs to be on social media. That's
the main form of marketing and pr these days, and
you need visuals to put on things like Instagram. And
so that's when everybody had to record their podcasts. And
(32:13):
then YouTube wanted a piece of the action, and instead
of just little snippets, people were like, well, we're already
brushing our hair and setting up cameras and editing it,
and that's already a pain in the neck an extra
at cost. We may as well do the whole thing
and chuck it on yet another platform. So that's what
we're all doing, and it's interesting because we have mixed
(32:34):
feelings about it. You know, if we had our way
purely from a podcasting point of view, we would prefer
to just have no cameras be in a studio because
it's more intimate. You're less conscious of how you look.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
One of the things we used to particularly like about
pure audio is that it just is a fact that
as soon as you can see someone talking, you're not
just listening to them talking. You are reading a whole
lot of cues from everything you can see from clearly
what they look like, in terms of have they brushed
their hair, have they done their makeup?
Speaker 2 (33:05):
What are they wearing? All the little clues, Oh, whats
that necklace? Me has got on? Oh, someone says a
bit tired today. Any TV presenter will.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
Tell you that they get more feedback about what they're
wearing and how they've done their lipstick female TV presenters
than anything they ever say or report. And so there's
something wonderfully freeing about the idea that no people are
just engaging with your voice and your thoughts and your ideas.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Those days are gone.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
We are now out of hiding, and I think it's
so fine like, I think it's absolutely fine, but it's
definitely a different relationship.
Speaker 4 (33:39):
I reckon for women in particular, the pivot will be
to having it on in the background. I've had a
lot of women I know talk about having a podcast
up on YouTube on their television while they go and
do something else, and they're kind of listening, and they
like the familiarity of a host who's voice. They recognize
the idea that you would sit down as some sort
(34:00):
of appointment viewing when that show comes out. I don't
think is probably realistic, but I think it's coming really
because we saw last week and talked about it on
the show, the axing of Q and A and the Project,
and the irony is that this is the bringback of
the panel show, like we're essentially a panel show and
haven't we seen that die? And there was a really
(34:21):
interesting article by Walid Ali in The Age at the
end of last week about how really this pivot has
a lot more to do with revenue than format, and
he was saying that on social media, on your TikTok, Instagram,
YouTube ads are so targeted. They've harvested so much data
about me that the ads, if I'm going to spend
(34:41):
money on an ad for nappies, then I want to
make sure I'm getting me who has kids in nappies.
Why would I put that on primetime television where most
of the people watching don't need nappies. And so that's
why there's more money in the kind of very targeted
social media world rather than social TV.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Commercial TV is broadcasting, and podcasts and other forms of
digital media tend to be narrow cast. So for example,
we're a podcast for women, that wouldn't be our primetime show,
and yet we are a daily show and we have
a really big audience. The other thing to note is
that it's all about choice. So we are now on YouTube.
(35:24):
You can watch us on YouTube, but nothing's going to change.
The podcast that you hear is going to be the same.
We don't make different creative decisions about what's in the
show because we're now had to build a studio and
do all of these things. For creators, it's more expensive
and it's harder, But for you, it's just about choice.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
And so if you listen to us on Spotify, if
you listen to us on Apple, no difference at all.
You will see some podcast videos on Spotify and sometimes
I wonder, Oh, if I don't want to watch the
video because I'm always doing something else, I'm not watching them,
will it still use up my data? It won't if
you've set your settings to not download video. So nothing
changes unless you go and seek it out out loud.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
As friends come into your life for a reason, a
season or a lifetime. So to podcast segments, don't worry.
The show's not going to be over, but we are
retiring a segment that we've done for a while that's
pretty popular, Best and Worst.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
We are big the grounds.
Speaker 4 (36:21):
I know people pissed, pissed, or maybe maybe she is going, yes,
you know what, shut the fuck up hearing about your life.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
We wanted to take you into the tent and explain
to you why. And we tried once before to get
rid of Best and Worse, and there was a big outcry,
and so we brought it back. But we are actually
getting rid of it this time, or retiring it, putting
it on hiatus, and sending it out to pasta for
the following reasons. The first is probably that, as you
can understand, when you're talking about the worst thing that
(36:51):
happened to you in a week, it's often something that
might involve other people in your life. In fact, it
usually almost always does all things that are private. It
might be work related things, it might be health related things,
it might be relationship things, it might be things about
your kids or your parents. And for us, we have
to protect the people in our lives. But then to
(37:13):
say my worst of the week was that I got
a parking ticket, or that I, you know, tripped over
a coffee on my shirt, or my dogs had a fight,
and that starts to not feel true to who we are.
And then you know, it's not to say that we're
not going to be still talking about our lives on
the show. We will be, of course, but there's something
(37:34):
about having to choose the best thing and the worst
thing that makes it quite extreme. And I've always said also,
it's better to share from a scar, not a wound.
When it's something that's literally happening in the last few days,
you often don't even know what to say about it.
Speaker 4 (37:49):
There's not a lot of wisdom to offer.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
No, here's the tell of when we knew it had
to happen. Brent got a stick stuck in his had,
and my first response was, at least I've got a
worse this week.
Speaker 4 (38:02):
We've all had those moments, and it was also a
low point where me or and I were jealous that
you had such and we were sitting around waiting for
a parking ticket or something so that we.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Had something to show great worst.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
So sometimes it means that you're kind of curating and
relating to your life through a slightly strange So I'm
sure we're still going to talk about all kinds of stuff,
all kinds of nonsense. We're still going to keep Fridays
light and fun. Right, yep, exactly right, But no best
and worse for now after the break, we have recommendations.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
We are still having recommendations.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
We are still telling you on Fridays in this particular
week what to watch this weekend.
Speaker 4 (38:42):
What unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday
and Thursday exclusively from Mum and Maya. Subscribers follow the
link in the show notes to get us in your
ears five days a week. And a huge thank you
to all our current subscribers.
Speaker 5 (39:03):
Vibes ideas atmosphere, something casual, something fun.
Speaker 4 (39:08):
This is my best recommendation.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
I feel like our recos this week because we've all
chosen the TV show, and I think that they are
very true to our personalities the TV shows we've chosen
this week. When we were talking about in the meeting,
I was like, that is the most Jesse recommendation of
all time.
Speaker 4 (39:25):
And it's going to be everyone's favorite. Don't even matter.
Speaker 3 (39:27):
Go with your recommendation of the weeklyase out louders.
Speaker 4 (39:31):
I have been waiting for this documentary. It was coming
on Netflix and it landed end of last week and
it is called titan the Ocean Gates Submersible Disare. Oh okay,
it is brilliant, so it's just come out. It is
about the twenty twenty three deep sea dive in the
submersible that ultimately imploded and killed lots of peace and
it killed five people. But the reason this documentary is
(39:53):
so brilliant is because it is about the hubris of
the CEO, the guy who created it. He had a
vision and saw himself as an Elon Musk, as a
Jeff Bezos type.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
There was no way of.
Speaker 6 (40:05):
Knowing where title was going to fail, but it was a.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
Mathematical certainty that it would fail.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
Stockton saw an opportunity to restart tourist physics to.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
Titanic Stockton fully believed in what he was doing and
that it would work. He wanted to fame to fuel
his his ego theme, I have.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
No desire to die.
Speaker 5 (40:33):
I understand this.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
Kind of risk.
Speaker 6 (40:35):
I thought Stockton was a borderline psychopath. How do you
manage a person like that who owns the company.
Speaker 4 (40:42):
It is the story of the descent of a lot
of his employees who were raising the alarm and saying,
I'm not comfortable with this. And what's fascinating is that
he got in it against the advice of everyone. He
would go down four thousand feet however deep. He wanted
to test it, and they were like, don't put a
human in it. Just send it down, but don't put
someone in it. And he would do it because of
(41:03):
his own ridiculous sort of ego, or also.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
That he just could not understand risk very well.
Speaker 4 (41:10):
And it did seem that way right And I won't
give away too much.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
But we know how it ended well.
Speaker 4 (41:15):
One of the most fascinating details, though, is that this
submersible was being made with carbon fiber, which had never
been done before. And if you can make a submersible
with a material that is cheaper and lighter, big deal. Right,
but what was happening and you can hear it the
amount of footage that they have. They always had go pros,
they had a videographer with them.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
And there's all that in the documentary.
Speaker 4 (41:36):
You can see down there. You can see what the
submersible looks.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Like, the six of that in terms of the people
who are down.
Speaker 4 (41:41):
So they don't have any footage from that one. They
have footage from the other kind of dives that they did.
But what you would hear is popping, really loud popping,
and it was the sound of the carbon fiber breaking
and everyone was going, you know, we know how this
is going to end. And so when these former employees
saw the story, they knew exactly what had happened. The
(42:02):
narrative is great and it is just a really well done,
well produced documentary. You have to watch it. It's on Netflix.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
Are you going to be watching that?
Speaker 1 (42:10):
No, I'm not going.
Speaker 4 (42:12):
To Maya, but different.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
It makes for different.
Speaker 4 (42:15):
It made me like you more. Can I tell you why?
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Why?
Speaker 2 (42:18):
Because I thought she wouldn't.
Speaker 4 (42:23):
Mayor has had some mad ideas, but none of them
involve a submersible. No, don't get me wrong. If you
made submersibles, I think you probably would make us get
into one and go come on, guys.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
Great content, do it for the ground.
Speaker 4 (42:37):
And sometimes you make us do unusual things.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
I've had to do some TikTok dancing out. Wasn't that
keen on exactly?
Speaker 4 (42:42):
Stakes are a bit lower exactly? And I went, you
know what, I appreciate that. I turned to Luca Mayor,
isn't that bad after all?
Speaker 1 (42:49):
So true? She may not understand risk, but she wouldn't
put us in a submersible.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Wasn't safe.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
I've got something very, very different to watch after that
has sent you into a spiral of despair. No, I
actually thought about watching that because it does look really,
really interesting. I just am finding the news is so
bleak at the moment. I just want to have a laugh.
And I started watching a show that kept being served
to me on Prime Video. It's called over Compensating.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
Welcome to College.
Speaker 4 (43:24):
You can be whoever you want to be here can
I'm Benny Cormen, I'm a man Innx's cousin.
Speaker 6 (43:33):
How the freshman ladies treat me? Either you're a dude?
Speaker 1 (43:42):
Who or? And it's written, directed, and stars a guy
called Benito's Skinner who's like His name on Instagram is
Benny Drama. He's a thirty one year old actor and
comedian and he wrote this story that's pretty much exactly
based on him. But it's fiction about a guy who
(44:04):
goes to college and he's like a jock and captain
of the football team, and he's gay and he's closeted, and
he meets this girl who's got her own story and
they become really close friends after trying to hook up,
and she helps him try to navigate coming out. Makes
it sound really serious, but it's not at all. It's
actually hilarious. The whole thing is really really funny. I
(44:28):
just loved it. Short episodes, yeah, short episodes. There's a
great supporting cast. They're juggling horrible hookups, flavored vodka, fake id's.
It's kind of like almost you don't know what period
of time it's set in, Like it's set in now,
in an American college, but it's also like a time before.
Like sometimes you can think, oh, everyone can come out,
like ben queer is cool and it's no big deal anymore,
(44:51):
but it actually is a big deal for a lot
of people, and everybody has a different story about how
they come out. And this one's just great. It's just
such a fun show, overcompensating on Prime video.
Speaker 3 (45:01):
So I'm not actually here right now. I am so
obsessed with this TV show that I have just discovered
that I am currently rolling around on a sandy beach
with a really handsome hunter who can slay a dragon
with his bare hands.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
Not a dragon, a lion. A lion with his bare hand.
Speaker 4 (45:15):
Oh my god, I've not heard of these.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
Harry P. Ruster, is what I'm talking about.
Speaker 3 (45:18):
She's nodding, because I have recently discovered my first show
in the Yellowstone Universe. Do you know what I'm talking about?
Speaker 4 (45:25):
Yes, Yellowstone, everyone who watches says is brilliant, But I
didn't know there was a universe.
Speaker 3 (45:30):
This guy, I don't know a lot about him is
called Taylor Sheridan. His politics might be a little dodgy,
so we won't go too deep into that, but he
has created Yellowstone, which is this massive smash for paramount
that stars Kevin Costner, and it's been It's one of
the most watched shows in the world, absolutely huge on
a ranch and so popular that it now has spin offs.
It has one I think it's called nineteen eighteen or something.
(45:52):
And the one that I have started watching at the
recommendation of a friend specifically because of this love story
at the heart of it, is called nineteen twenty three.
Speaker 6 (46:01):
You've been missus Dutton, though he would seems we're neighbors,
have acquired the Stafford Ranch. Well, this is the yellow
Stone and you have no rights here, jegab you can't
start a range war. Range wars already started.
Speaker 5 (46:21):
How much you'll ide you on?
Speaker 6 (46:23):
I want the whole valley.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
Either we take this fight to them or it's common.
Speaker 6 (46:30):
Us men kill quick with a bullet or a nurse,
but they're fighters with me, and I kill much slower.
Speaker 3 (46:40):
Is that when it's set, it's set in nineteen twenty three.
It'd be weird if it was it Jesse in between
the wars, right, And it's about this family in Montana,
the patriarch matriarchy, Harrison Ford and Helen Mirren. So we're
not fucking about here, We're not fucking about Wow, we
are top tiering it, right. Harrison Ford and Helen Mirren
are the people on the ranch who like that. And
(47:00):
you know it's under threat from a mining company and
there's all this stuff going on. They want their long
lost nephew to come back and help them defend the
legacy because he is a tough guy. He traumatized by
World War One, is now in Africa where he is
paid to go and kill man eating lions and leopards, right,
Could there be a more manly job than that? No, anyway,
(47:21):
So we go to Africa, we meet him. He's called
Spencer Dunne. He's played by this guy called Brandon Sclennar
and I had never met him before, but now he's
all I think about.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
He was apparel if the good guy in it ends
with us?
Speaker 4 (47:33):
Oh gorgeous, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (47:35):
Unbelievably gorgeous. And he meets this young english woman blah
blah blah. Anyway, we don't need to know any more
details except that their chemistry you know. Sometimes and maybe
this is just me, but I remember now all the
way back to being a kid, that you'd watched some
shows where the chemistry between a couple was so amazing
it just like.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
Swept you up in it.
Speaker 4 (47:55):
Is it humpy?
Speaker 2 (47:56):
It's humpy?
Speaker 1 (47:56):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (47:57):
In there having these two people are having a lot
of great sex. But they're not having a lot of
great sex. Some other people in the house are but
our friend Spencer and his fancy English lady Alex having
a lot of great sex. But it's not corny like
it's what they call closed door sex, right, So you
see everything leaving offit disappointed a little bit. His shirt's
(48:17):
off a lot though. There's also this very distressing subplot
going on that's about Indigenous Americans who've been taken from
their families and are in a brutal school run by nuns.
Sounds familiar to Australian viewers, and I've just found myself
completely swept up in it and it's all I want
to do.
Speaker 4 (48:34):
I've sold me on it.
Speaker 3 (48:35):
I want to go back and I want to watch
these people do whatever they're doing. And I don't really
want Harrison Ford to keep his rent because he's a
bit of a dick, but I really really want my
matexpense anyway, So that was a sity.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
I'm only in season one, so don't actually anyhow it happens.
There are two.
Speaker 3 (48:48):
Seasons and the second one just dropped, so it's called
nineteen twenty three.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
It's on Paramount Plus.
Speaker 3 (48:53):
It's part of the Yellowstone thing and I am now
officially obsessed.
Speaker 1 (48:57):
That's like when I got really into Downton Abbey and Bridgington. Yes,
because the steaks, it just felt so otherworldly. No one
had phones, and the Gilded Age is coming back too.
I'm very excited about it.
Speaker 3 (49:10):
Is interesting because I'm not I'm not always a historical
drama person, but sometimes you know, you just get so
swept up in it and maybe you need it at
that time or whatever. But it's an escape, a proper escape. Anyway,
I'm loving it and that's my Raco. That is all
we've got time for today, out louders, thank you for
being with us this week. As always, We're going to
(49:30):
be back in your ears on Monday, of course, Jesse
and Mia. What else have we got to tell everybody.
Speaker 4 (49:34):
A big thank you to our team group executive producer
Ruth Devine, executive producer Emmeline Gazillis, our audio producer is
Leah Porges, video.
Speaker 1 (49:43):
Producer Josh Green, our junior content producers Coco and Tessa,
and our studios at Muma Mea are styled with furniture
from Fenton and Fenton. Visit Fenton and Fenton dot com
dot au. Before we go, I want to give everyone
a little treat with another recommendation. I want to play
us out with a beautiful song by a very dear
friend of mine that's come out this week. It's pure
(50:04):
weekend vibes. Her name is Jackie Oberg. She's talented and brilliant.
Here is her So if I could beat my silhouette,
We'll put a link in the show notes if you're
listening on Spotify.
Speaker 4 (50:14):
Bye bye bye.
Speaker 1 (50:17):
Be alone, shy love, whom I do you?
Speaker 2 (50:29):
If I could only be mysel? Would I still be
too much?
Speaker 1 (50:39):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (50:40):
You love?
Speaker 4 (50:41):
Memory?
Speaker 2 (50:43):
Would let you my.
Speaker 1 (50:48):
Jesus really love. Shout out to any MoMA Maya subscribers listening.
If you love the show and want to support us
as well, subscribing to Mom and Maya is the very
best way to do so. There is a link in
the episode description
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