Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
I'm Jeff Stevens. It's my eightiesshow podcast talking to biographer Nick Deriso about
the new Journey book called Journey WorldsApart. Nick, how are you very
well? Thank you good, veryexcited about Journey Worlds Apart. I love
how it was being described as notjust a biography, but it's a backstage
pass into the world of Journey,and I can't wait to hear more about
(00:22):
this. So, I know you'vebeen writing about music for many, many
years, but some of the insightsabout you know, one of the most
iconic bands of all time. Ibet this was pretty cool. Well,
it occurred to me in my workthat people know these songs. It's almost
impossible to move through your life withoutbeing confronted with Journey, but you may
(00:44):
not know their stories, right.There's never been a truly experientive look at
this band somehow, and it's gota lot of interesting main characters, many
offshoot bands that are very worthy ofexploration, like Bad English. And at
the same time, can we createsomething that has a lot of entry points,
(01:04):
you know? That was the challengeand so what you'll find with Journey
Worlds Apart is is very digestible.There are lots of ways to move in
and out of these eras. It'snot just one long narrative. We do
breakouts on the albums, on thetours, on the singles, on these
offshoot bands. There's a lot ofways to become engaged with this book,
(01:26):
and that's really my favorite part aboutit. Yeah, so is it something
where you've kind of followed the bandthrough their career or you went back and
sort of studied how how everything wentthe last thirty or forty years. Well,
I've been writing about music for decadesand I currently serve as the assistant
managing editor at Ultimate Classic Rock dotcom. So you know, a journey's
been with me, you know,as a subject for a long time.
(01:49):
But it really was more about thinking, well, you know, can there
be a deeper look at this band? You know, they were already in
the rock and roll Hall of FameI began working on this book, and
yet they still somehow felt a littlemysterious to me. So, you know,
I began conducting interviews, more thanfifty interviews conducted over the years,
(02:12):
data research at the same time,digging into every lineup, every album,
every offstreet band, every tour.Incredible undertaking but you know, in the
end, I think we've come upwith something that can tell their story in
a deep way, and I hopein an entertaining way. Absolutely talking to
Nick Deriso, who is the authorof Journey Worlds apart, and of course
(02:36):
they are out there currently this yearcelebrating their fiftieth anniversary and you know,
doing a gigantic tour, doing somedates with Toto and def Leppard and all
these other, you know, greatbands. I'm a huge fan of Journey
myself, but they've gone through theirshare of turmoil as well as far as
you know, the whole lead singerthing, with Steve Perry leaving, then
the other Steve coming in for awhile, and then most recently Arnell,
(03:00):
but then also some of the someof the players, you know, lawsuits
and everything else. So I meanthis is almost like a Journey soap opera
probably at times, right well,there there are moments in which, you
know, I told the publisher thatI'm starting to feel a little bit like
maybe maybe I should get you know, my paralegal documents in order, because
we went through a lot of lawsuits, a lot of contract work. You
(03:23):
know, I got my hands onthe original exit agreement to that Steve Berry
signed with Journey, which outlines,you know, what what it would take
for them to move forward without him, And uh, you know, we
were able to really go through thingslike that in the book and and and
peak behind the curtain for fans,uh, you know, to tell them
(03:44):
exactly how things unfold it, youknow, Uh, you know, export
deeper in the original documentation of theselawsuits, and I think through that can
tell you can give you as areader a sense of what was going on
behind the scenes, behind these bigrecords and behind these big TV appearances of
songs like Don't Stop Believing. Yeah, and obviously that was you know,
(04:08):
that is That's. Everybody always thinksthis is this big number one song and
everything else, but it was.It was a moderate hit for Journey,
but obviously with Sopranos and and That'sand Glee and all the different different times
that that song has been used,it has made it one of the most
iconic songs of all time that neverwent to number one. Well, and
I asked Jonathan Kate, I saidthe same thing to him. I said,
(04:30):
this is not your biggest song evenfrom that album, right, it
was? It was, as yousay, a moderate hit at best,
you know, And I asked him, you know, what do you make
of that? And that's really whatJourney Worlds of part Is tries to do
is bring their voices forward because Ithink while there are reviews of certain you
know, of the albums and thesingles, you know, certain elements do
(04:53):
have my thoughts in it. Someof the most interesting things can be when
you know, can happen when youlet the main characters tell their story.
And Jonathan King said, Look,this is the reason that song resonates with
generation after generation. It gives youpermission to dream. It's a song that
(05:14):
opens up the idea of possibilities,no matter what your station in life is,
no matter what your situation is,and it just kept building. I
think because of that, generation aftergeneration, here's that song and they see
they see their own permission to dreamin it. Yeah, that's very well
put. Well, I'm, likeI said, I'm a fan, so
(05:35):
I'm looking forward to digging into thismore. Back to Steve Perry for a
second, can you give us atleast a little bit because I remember going
to see Journey at the end ofthe nineties and I bought tickets thinking that
Steve was going to be there,and there was actually a sign when I
walked into the arena that said,due to unforeseen circumstances or something, Steve
(05:59):
Perry will not be performing tonight withthe band. And I was like,
well, that's weird. And thenof course that ended up being the beginning
of the end. And then ofcourse we heard that Steve au Jerry was
going to be the singer, andof course he sounded just like Steve Perry,
and then he was around for alittle while, and of course,
most recently Arnelle pineda any more insightis to is to you know, without
giving the whole book away with withwhere Steve was and why he didn't come
(06:20):
back. Yeah, the last twotours that Steve Perry did ended early,
both with Journey and raised on radioand then his first solo record when he
toured behind that this is these arevery difficult songs to sing, in particular
as you as you grow older.Steve all Jerry was with the band,
and they toured as hard as they'dever toured, in fact, really more
(06:45):
than they had toured when they werebecoming superstars. Trying to rebuild Journey in
the aftermath of Perry's exit and hehad to come off the road too.
You know, he blew out hisvoice. These are hard songs to sing,
and they get harder and when youtour like Journey does. You know,
one of the most amazing parts ofthe story is the longevity of Arnel
Pineda, who is now their longestserving front man. He's been with them
(07:10):
more than fifteen years. You know. It's interesting that he led them to,
you know, back to platinum sellingstatus with his first album. More
interesting still is how he's been ableto remain out there with them singing songs.
You know, they tour every year, they tour, they did.
They play outside, they play inside, but they play and he remains the
(07:30):
keeper of the flame. And forthat that's almost as amazing as his rags
to riches story of being found originallyby Neil Sean on YouTube. Yeah,
I was going to ask you thattoo, Nick. I'm assuming you cover
that in there as well, becausethat's that's a pretty amazing story too.
Well. Again, Journey found itselftwice in very difficult situations where all of
a sudden they were part of thenational conversation again, but could not get
(07:55):
back on the road after the Behindthe Music episode came out and after the
Sopranos episode came out. They bothtimes they were not able to immediately take
advantage of that by going out onthe road and playing songs. And that's
how Steve Algerry was hired, andthat's how arn Alf and Aeda was hired.
They literally could not get back together, couldn't find a pathway back with
(08:20):
Steve Perry, and so these neweras began interesting. And I'm always impressed
with how Dean Castronovo can play drumsand still sing like he does, who,
by the way, also does kindof sound like Steve Perry. I'm
amazed at how he can do that. It's a pretty incredible thing to see
and know. In talking to him, he said, what he has to
(08:41):
do is turn off that part ofhis mind that's playing the drums. And
you know, you can only reallydo that when you're very, very good.
Yeah, he says he can't reallythink about the drumming at that point
because if he does, he losesthe plot of the song. Wow,
that's a tough game right there.He was in an offshoot band called Journey
(09:01):
through Time with Neil Shawan and GregRowley, the original co founders of Journey,
and Raley told me that he couldnot get over Dean Castronovo of all.
You know, he just he hadnever played with him before. And
you know, and of course Deanis handling the Perry parts while Raleigh sings
his original parts. And he youknow, after the first show they did,
(09:24):
you know, he came. Itcame to he said, you know,
this isn't human. I was athis show in Columbus, I don't
know, five or six years ago, and at one at the end of
the night, Dean throughout a coupleof drumsticks and I was sitting like right
in the middle, like the seventhor adh row and me and my buddy
each caught a drumstick. I waslike, there you go, and I
(09:45):
claim to fame. I caught Dean'sdrumsticks. And I will say this too.
You know, his road back fromsome very troubled times, yeah,
passed through Jonath Kame's solo career.The very first thing he did before he
before he came back to Journey,certainly, but even before he restarted his
side band Revolution Saints, was appearingon the Jonathan Kane solo album You Know
(10:07):
Kane believed in Dean's journey. Hebelieved in in his his road to redemption,
and that was a pathway back forhim. And you know, no
one more than Dean, no oneknows more than Dean Castaneau how amazing that
has been to find his way backto the main band. And uh,
he's cleaning sober now and uh andand and he has his mind in a
(10:31):
good place. You know, hesaid, before my work used to take
precedence before anything else. And hesays, you know now that that's reversed.
The thing that I am the mostis a you know, as a
member of my own family. Andthen this is just my job. That's
it. He's still playing the heckout of it. He's not bringing a
workman like attitude about it. Lasttour he was, he was absolutely killing
(10:54):
it. Yeah, well, Nick, I could talk to you for hours.
I know, I got to letyou go here, But everybody needs
to go out and check out Journeyworlds apart, it's the biography of Journey,
but like it's uh, I lovehow it said. It's basically a
backstage pass into the entire career fiftyyears of Journey. So Nick deisso thank
you so much. It was greattalking to you. Thanks so much.
Take care,
I'm Jeff Stevens. It's my eightiesshow podcast talking to biographer Nick Deriso about
the new Journey book called Journey WorldsApart. Nick, how are you very
well? Thank you good, veryexcited about Journey Worlds Apart. I love
how it was being described as notjust a biography, but it's a backstage
pass into the world of Journey,and I can't wait to hear more about
(00:22):
this. So, I know you'vebeen writing about music for many, many
years, but some of the insightsabout you know, one of the most
iconic bands of all time. Ibet this was pretty cool. Well,
it occurred to me in my workthat people know these songs. It's almost
impossible to move through your life withoutbeing confronted with Journey, but you may
(00:44):
not know their stories, right.There's never been a truly experientive look at
this band somehow, and it's gota lot of interesting main characters, many
offshoot bands that are very worthy ofexploration, like Bad English. And at
the same time, can we createsomething that has a lot of entry points,
(01:04):
you know? That was the challengeand so what you'll find with Journey
Worlds Apart is is very digestible.There are lots of ways to move in
and out of these eras. It'snot just one long narrative. We do
breakouts on the albums, on thetours, on the singles, on these
offshoot bands. There's a lot ofways to become engaged with this book,
(01:26):
and that's really my favorite part aboutit. Yeah, so is it something
where you've kind of followed the bandthrough their career or you went back and
sort of studied how how everything wentthe last thirty or forty years. Well,
I've been writing about music for decadesand I currently serve as the assistant
managing editor at Ultimate Classic Rock dotcom. So you know, a journey's
been with me, you know,as a subject for a long time.
(01:49):
But it really was more about thinking, well, you know, can there
be a deeper look at this band? You know, they were already in
the rock and roll Hall of FameI began working on this book, and
yet they still somehow felt a littlemysterious to me. So, you know,
I began conducting interviews, more thanfifty interviews conducted over the years,
(02:12):
data research at the same time,digging into every lineup, every album,
every offstreet band, every tour.Incredible undertaking but you know, in the
end, I think we've come upwith something that can tell their story in
a deep way, and I hopein an entertaining way. Absolutely talking to
Nick Deriso, who is the authorof Journey Worlds apart, and of course
(02:36):
they are out there currently this yearcelebrating their fiftieth anniversary and you know,
doing a gigantic tour, doing somedates with Toto and def Leppard and all
these other, you know, greatbands. I'm a huge fan of Journey
myself, but they've gone through theirshare of turmoil as well as far as
you know, the whole lead singerthing, with Steve Perry leaving, then
the other Steve coming in for awhile, and then most recently Arnell,
(03:00):
but then also some of the someof the players, you know, lawsuits
and everything else. So I meanthis is almost like a Journey soap opera
probably at times, right well,there there are moments in which, you
know, I told the publisher thatI'm starting to feel a little bit like
maybe maybe I should get you know, my paralegal documents in order, because
we went through a lot of lawsuits, a lot of contract work. You
(03:23):
know, I got my hands onthe original exit agreement to that Steve Berry
signed with Journey, which outlines,you know, what what it would take
for them to move forward without him, And uh, you know, we
were able to really go through thingslike that in the book and and and
peak behind the curtain for fans,uh, you know, to tell them
(03:44):
exactly how things unfold it, youknow, Uh, you know, export
deeper in the original documentation of theselawsuits, and I think through that can
tell you can give you as areader a sense of what was going on
behind the scenes, behind these bigrecords and behind these big TV appearances of
songs like Don't Stop Believing. Yeah, and obviously that was you know,
(04:08):
that is That's. Everybody always thinksthis is this big number one song and
everything else, but it was.It was a moderate hit for Journey,
but obviously with Sopranos and and That'sand Glee and all the different different times
that that song has been used,it has made it one of the most
iconic songs of all time that neverwent to number one. Well, and
I asked Jonathan Kate, I saidthe same thing to him. I said,
(04:30):
this is not your biggest song evenfrom that album, right, it
was? It was, as yousay, a moderate hit at best,
you know, And I asked him, you know, what do you make
of that? And that's really whatJourney Worlds of part Is tries to do
is bring their voices forward because Ithink while there are reviews of certain you
know, of the albums and thesingles, you know, certain elements do
(04:53):
have my thoughts in it. Someof the most interesting things can be when
you know, can happen when youlet the main characters tell their story.
And Jonathan King said, Look,this is the reason that song resonates with
generation after generation. It gives youpermission to dream. It's a song that
(05:14):
opens up the idea of possibilities,no matter what your station in life is,
no matter what your situation is,and it just kept building. I
think because of that, generation aftergeneration, here's that song and they see
they see their own permission to dreamin it. Yeah, that's very well
put. Well, I'm, likeI said, I'm a fan, so
(05:35):
I'm looking forward to digging into thismore. Back to Steve Perry for a
second, can you give us atleast a little bit because I remember going
to see Journey at the end ofthe nineties and I bought tickets thinking that
Steve was going to be there,and there was actually a sign when I
walked into the arena that said,due to unforeseen circumstances or something, Steve
(05:59):
Perry will not be performing tonight withthe band. And I was like,
well, that's weird. And thenof course that ended up being the beginning
of the end. And then ofcourse we heard that Steve au Jerry was
going to be the singer, andof course he sounded just like Steve Perry,
and then he was around for alittle while, and of course,
most recently Arnelle pineda any more insightis to is to you know, without
giving the whole book away with withwhere Steve was and why he didn't come
(06:20):
back. Yeah, the last twotours that Steve Perry did ended early,
both with Journey and raised on radioand then his first solo record when he
toured behind that this is these arevery difficult songs to sing, in particular
as you as you grow older.Steve all Jerry was with the band,
and they toured as hard as they'dever toured, in fact, really more
(06:45):
than they had toured when they werebecoming superstars. Trying to rebuild Journey in
the aftermath of Perry's exit and hehad to come off the road too.
You know, he blew out hisvoice. These are hard songs to sing,
and they get harder and when youtour like Journey does. You know,
one of the most amazing parts ofthe story is the longevity of Arnel
Pineda, who is now their longestserving front man. He's been with them
(07:10):
more than fifteen years. You know. It's interesting that he led them to,
you know, back to platinum sellingstatus with his first album. More
interesting still is how he's been ableto remain out there with them singing songs.
You know, they tour every year, they tour, they did.
They play outside, they play inside, but they play and he remains the
(07:30):
keeper of the flame. And forthat that's almost as amazing as his rags
to riches story of being found originallyby Neil Sean on YouTube. Yeah,
I was going to ask you thattoo, Nick. I'm assuming you cover
that in there as well, becausethat's that's a pretty amazing story too.
Well. Again, Journey found itselftwice in very difficult situations where all of
a sudden they were part of thenational conversation again, but could not get
(07:55):
back on the road after the Behindthe Music episode came out and after the
Sopranos episode came out. They bothtimes they were not able to immediately take
advantage of that by going out onthe road and playing songs. And that's
how Steve Algerry was hired, andthat's how arn Alf and Aeda was hired.
They literally could not get back together, couldn't find a pathway back with
(08:20):
Steve Perry, and so these neweras began interesting. And I'm always impressed
with how Dean Castronovo can play drumsand still sing like he does, who,
by the way, also does kindof sound like Steve Perry. I'm
amazed at how he can do that. It's a pretty incredible thing to see
and know. In talking to him, he said, what he has to
(08:41):
do is turn off that part ofhis mind that's playing the drums. And
you know, you can only reallydo that when you're very, very good.
Yeah, he says he can't reallythink about the drumming at that point
because if he does, he losesthe plot of the song. Wow,
that's a tough game right there.He was in an offshoot band called Journey
(09:01):
through Time with Neil Shawan and GregRowley, the original co founders of Journey,
and Raley told me that he couldnot get over Dean Castronovo of all.
You know, he just he hadnever played with him before. And
you know, and of course Deanis handling the Perry parts while Raleigh sings
his original parts. And he youknow, after the first show they did,
(09:24):
you know, he came. Itcame to he said, you know,
this isn't human. I was athis show in Columbus, I don't
know, five or six years ago, and at one at the end of
the night, Dean throughout a coupleof drumsticks and I was sitting like right
in the middle, like the seventhor adh row and me and my buddy
each caught a drumstick. I waslike, there you go, and I
(09:45):
claim to fame. I caught Dean'sdrumsticks. And I will say this too.
You know, his road back fromsome very troubled times, yeah,
passed through Jonath Kame's solo career.The very first thing he did before he
before he came back to Journey,certainly, but even before he restarted his
side band Revolution Saints, was appearingon the Jonathan Kane solo album You Know
(10:07):
Kane believed in Dean's journey. Hebelieved in in his his road to redemption,
and that was a pathway back forhim. And you know, no
one more than Dean, no oneknows more than Dean Castaneau how amazing that
has been to find his way backto the main band. And uh,
he's cleaning sober now and uh andand and he has his mind in a
(10:31):
good place. You know, hesaid, before my work used to take
precedence before anything else. And hesays, you know now that that's reversed.
The thing that I am the mostis a you know, as a
member of my own family. Andthen this is just my job. That's
it. He's still playing the heckout of it. He's not bringing a
workman like attitude about it. Lasttour he was, he was absolutely killing
(10:54):
it. Yeah, well, Nick, I could talk to you for hours.
I know, I got to letyou go here, But everybody needs
to go out and check out Journeyworlds apart, it's the biography of Journey,
but like it's uh, I lovehow it said. It's basically a
backstage pass into the entire career fiftyyears of Journey. So Nick deisso thank
you so much. It was greattalking to you. Thanks so much.
Take care,
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