Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Scott
Townsend Show brought to you by
Pizza man Productions.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Well, today, the last
time we spoke, we got a good
response from listeners.
It was the topic of how to getpromoted at work and it seems
like that hit a nerve witheveryone.
We got a lot of responses, good, a lot of downloads, some good
responses, uh, and I reallybelieve that, uh, it looks like
(00:31):
it's helping people.
So you know, we were talkingalso.
So you know what to do.
How to get promoted, that's onething, but the the flip side of
the coin is what do you do whenyou don't get promoted?
So, that's, your chances of notgetting promoted are so much
greater than getting promoted,because you know you're always
(00:52):
up against so many people, um,for a position.
Usually, and whenever you're upagainst one, two, five, ten,
whatever, uh, that decreases theodds you, so chances are you're
not going to get promoted everysingle time you put in for a
promotion.
So it'll be interesting to getyour thoughts on what to do, uh,
(01:17):
what to do when you don't getpromoted.
What's, what's one of the firstthings you should do, or what's
top of mind, what should you do?
Speaker 3 (01:28):
That's a good
question and I think, going into
the whole interview process,you kind of got to have your
mind, I think, around the entireprocess and the potential
outcomes in the process and havethe how you handle what happens
next after the interview,whether you get an offer, an
(01:50):
invitation for another interviewor a rejection.
That's got to be something thatyou plan for in advance, you
know, in your entire interviewprep process.
And if you don't, you know youmay find yourself just reacting
emotionally versus acting in athoughtful, you know,
(02:13):
intentional kind of way.
So I think I think, as you prepfor an interview last time we
talked about how to get promotedand it's kind of.
It's kind of like it'sdifferent, which is different
than than a applying for a joband the whole interview process,
but it's foundational for it.
For sure.
We talked a lot about that.
(02:34):
But I think what happens afterthe interview is part of the
decision tree you've got toconsider in advance.
Make your playbook, write downyour playbook, you know, write
down your playbook.
You can't go into a whatever afootball game and just plan on
on, you know, going for your um.
You know 10, 15 yard yard pass,play every down.
(02:56):
You got to consider thepossibility that you may have to
do some clock management, andthere's all kinds of things that
can happen in the game.
You're not passing at all.
Maybe all you gotta do is kicka field goal.
You're whatever you're doing.
You know you got to have aplaybook if, if the defense
presents this, this is whatwe're going to switch to on
offense, and vice versa.
So it's full of those kind ofthings.
I think the interview process isone of those situations where
(03:19):
there are some very obviousdecision points along the way
and points where your wholecandidacy may proceed or it may
stop.
You may not even get aninvitation to interview, so
you've got to consider that aswell.
Um, but I think it's part ofthe whole interview process in
my mind.
And what happens you know whenyou, when you don't get the, or
(03:40):
you said what we're talkingabout, whether you do get the,
if you do what, what?
Speaker 2 (03:44):
to do?
How do you?
Speaker 3 (03:45):
react.
If you don't, yeah, what to do?
What to do, which is differentthan what not to do, right?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Well, that'll be next
week.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Yeah, so, yeah, so I
mean I guess that's how I would
start is know what you're goingto do in advance, you know,
before you get to that point.
Start is know what you're goingto do in advance, you know,
before you get to that point,and if you do, uh, if you do get
um a rejection, what you shoulddo, um, you know you should be
prepared to uh write back a uh,you know a thank you letter for
(04:18):
the process and uh ask if they,if they have any other questions
they would like to get clarityon.
You should ask for some feedbackand reassert why you're still
interested in the job and howyou are excited you could be
(04:41):
excited about working in thatrole, and I think it's really
important in the interviewprocess to understand what the
mission of the company is.
I think, whether you're in aninterview process or you're just
working in a job, I think it'sreally, really important to
understand, have clarity in yourown mind about how much about
(05:05):
what you do in your day-to-dayjob relates to the company
mission, and a company missionis going to be a very high level
statement, so it's a biginvestment for them and I don't
think they would be making thatinvestment unless their
government, if they, if theydidn't have clarity about how
what your your role, um is goingto be doing to contribute to
the company's mission, otherwiseyou shouldn't be there.
(05:27):
So I think when you'reconsidering the job, you need to
have personal clarity on howwhat you would be doing
contributes to the mission.
So I think, when you don't getit, I think reasserting I'm
excited about this job is goingto be help the company
(05:48):
accomplish its mission to be thesafest, most on time airline
service on the planet.
You know, whatever it is I justtotally made that up in the
moment but you should haveclarity about that and and and
state that in your in yourletter, uh, and ask them if
there's you know any otheropportunities that feel free to
(06:10):
reach out if you have any otherquestions.
You know things like that.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
You know this work
for all industries retail,
wholesale, corporate, I mean,I'm thinking of retail in the
back of my mind.
I think this holds true forthose as well, even if you want
to be an hourly employee to amanager, supervisor, assistant,
(06:41):
store manager, store manager,whatever.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
I can't think of a
position where it wouldn't be
appropriate and I think itreally shows if you're talking
at that level, if you'recommunicating at that level,
you're communicatingstrategically and you're not
just thinking about going thereand um on an assembly line and
getting widgets on one side,screwing this thing onto the
widget and passing on on to thenext process.
(07:06):
And that's the way some peopleyeah, some people see their jobs
that way, though, and a lot ofpeople number one, they have no
idea what the company mission is, and if you're interviewing for
a company, whatever companythat is, you should research it
until you find it out and youshould memorize that mission and
be able to just repeat it, justlike you should know it,
memorize it.
(07:26):
That's part of your interviewprep.
But I can't think of reallysituation, or maybe you know,
but where that wouldn't be anappropriate course of action,
because the truth is, yeah.
Well, what I was going to sayis you know, the company may
make an offer to somebody else.
You may have well been numbertwo, they may have had a hard
(07:48):
time deciding.
You know, between these two orthree people, and they have a
committee.
I've done this, you know, andyou'll talk about each one.
You'll talk about sometimes youhave one, that's just a clear
standout.
Sometimes you have several thateverybody is in agreement.
You know, if we had any one, weonly have one position we can
fill if we had any one of thesetwo or three, we'd be happy.
(08:12):
We think they're qualified, wethink they're a great culture,
fit, all those kind of things,and so you know, tighten up your
game.
And when you write your, yourletter of response first of all,
when you get out of theinterview process, um, you
should thank them for theinterview.
You know, that's kind of firinga parting shot, if that isn't
(08:37):
the right analogy, but it is onemore thing that you can do,
adding fuel to the fire.
Adding weight to your candidacy,showing them that you have
class, that you will be a goodculture fit, assuming that's
valued by their culture.
Hopefully it is.
But nobody doesn't like to geta thank you note and, as an
(09:00):
interviewer, when I was involvedin interviewing for
interviewing people to come workon my team, I probably got a
thank you letter.
It happened more than I thoughtit would, but I'll say yes and
this is kind of like.
I'll say it's less than 20%,it's probably less than 10%, but
(09:22):
put it right at 10%.
10 to 15%, that's how manypeople after the interview will
write a thank you letter of somesort, and so it's kind of easy
to stand out in a process ifonly 10 to 15% are doing some of
the obvious things right.
So it just adds weight weightto it.
(09:42):
So so all that to say if youget, if you get the rejection um
, you can't let it get you down,you know, just got to stay
positive and and go to yourplaybook, write the letter, let
them know that you're stillinterested in the job, reassert
how you're you would be excitedstill about you know being
considered for that role oranother role that comes open
because you're you would beexcited still about, you know,
being considered for that roleor another role that comes open,
(10:03):
because you know I would beexcited about and then state
what your role does and be partof contributing to the mission
of the company to accomplishbest customer satisfaction.
In the playing card,manufacturing business, whatever
it is, it doesn't matter.
You know every company has amission.
You just got to find it out.
You got to business, whateverit is, it doesn't matter.
You know every company has amission.
You just got to find it out.
(10:24):
You got to find out what it isand they want you there because
it's going to contribute to themission.
So you've got to connect thosedots and then you have to
articulate it.
And I think it's great toarticulate it in that letter
because you know you can get theperson that they send the offer
to.
That person is probably prettygood.
(10:45):
They probably interview verywell and they also probably
applied at two or three otherplaces as well and they're
probably in the top candidatepool there, so they may reject
that offer.
And then they go back to theslate and they go well, is there
anybody else from these guys?
We, you know Our number onecandidate rejected.
He didn't take our offer.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
So is there anybody
else from this candidate?
Speaker 3 (11:09):
pool.
Yeah, I have two, yeah, forsure.
And so they'll either decide dothey want to go back and have a
brand new slate?
If you didn't have a goodsecond or third choice, then you
may go back through and get awhole new slate of candidates
which nobody likes.
Nobody likes this process, youknow.
So you may well be, you knowthat second choice and if you
(11:34):
play your cards right and you doall these things right, it's
just really showing how wellprepared you are for the role.
And how mature you are, howmature you are and how
strategically you think, becausethat's that's really what they
want, you know.
They want somebody who canthink beyond just the role or
hiring for somebody that has,you know, a potential of going
(11:55):
further than than just the role.
Because if they can do that asa leader, it generally looks it,
it um reflects very well on aleader if they are kind of
become known as like a talentpipeline.
You know, and getting yourpeople promoted is a good way
yourself to also get promotedand work every time, every time,
(12:17):
but it's a good, good way to doit.
Ge was very famous for how wellthey did that back in the 80s
under Jack Welch, and so peoplewould come to them and they
would headhunt their executivesbecause they wanted that magic
in their company too.
So they want good candidatesand if you can solidify that
(12:41):
they're going to.
If they have an opening or theymay hire somebody, they say,
dang, we should have hired thatguy, and next time they have
something come up, maybe they'llreach out.
You should be watching theboards and if they have another
opening, ask them if there's anyother openings coming up and
just sell yourself, sellyourself, energy up, energy up
(13:11):
them.
If there's any other openingscoming up, you know, and they're
, just do sell yourself, sellyourself.
Energy up, energy up, uh.
You need to project uh uh,positive positivity, positive
image up, not discouraged, youknow.
Just up energy up, um, and keepselling yourself because
because that can, that can comethrough with them with the job
offer, and I've got a becausethat can, that can come through
with the with the job offer, andI've got a story about that one
.
But do you have anything atthis point, anything else?
Cause I can keep going, I justdon't want to talk.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Uh, no, I don't.
Um, okay, yeah, so go ahead.
Okay so so here's the storywind him up and let him go thank
you for joining me.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Scott townsend show.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
We'll be back right
after this before we continue,
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Forward slash the ScottTownsend Show.
(14:11):
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Speaker 3 (14:32):
So thank you so much
for your support.
So this is a story back fromway, way back when Jan and I got
married.
We've been married for 37 years, which is a tribute to my wife
um her patience.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
But back when we got
married yeah, long suffering.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Yeah, I was trying to
find a word, um, we'll just use
that one long suffering.
When we got, when we gotmarried, I had just graduated
from oklahoma state and she, shehad two more years and she, she
was in, uh, the accountingfield.
She wanted to to be anaccountant.
So we, we got married, we movedto midland.
(15:12):
She did her next like semesterof school um at utpb out in
odessa and then, uh, when I wentwhere I was at texaco, I got
transferred out to to denver.
I was working out there andthen she went to back to school
to finish her last year to yearand a half I can't remember now
(15:32):
at metropolitan state.
It's just a small college indowntown denver, janet is.
She's very good, she's verysmart and she's very good at um
with academics.
Uh, she was straight A studentall the way through college.
She had one class where she gota B in her whole college career
(15:54):
, which is distinctly differentfrom my college career career,
but she, she made it through thewhole thing.
She had like a 3.98 gpa.
I mean it's just insane.
And you know, back then youdidn't have people graduating
with something over a 4.0.
You know, oh, I graduated witha 4.4.2.
(16:14):
What, what kind of scale youwant you know.
So I think it got game a littlebit, but anyway she had a great
g.
She went and she sat for the CPAexam.
She passed all four parts ofthe CPA exam on her first go
round.
And then it was time, after shehad that, to go interview.
(16:34):
And so she got an invitation to.
Oh no, she sent in herapplication for one of the
companies I think it was PeteMarwick.
(16:54):
It was Pete Marwick, it was abig six back then.
So she sent in her herapplication to pete marwick, and
as were, you know, a lot of herfriends who've been through a
similar process, and petemarwick sent back a rejection
letter just for the interviewand said uh, you know, thank you
(17:16):
for applying.
Um, unfortunately, you know,we're not going to be
interviewing you at this time.
Thank you for your thank youfor applying.
That was her first letter.
She got back from one of the bigsix firms, pete marlican.
It was this rejection letter toeven interview, and here she
had a 3.98 grade point averageand all this stuff.
I mean it's crazy.
She was super discouraged bythat but also super motivated
(17:43):
and she wasn't going to just letthat slide.
So she sat down and she wrote aletter back to Pete Marwick and
it said something like thankyou for responding to my
interest in Pete Marwick.
And I'm sure as you go throughthis, pete Marwick, and I'm sure
(18:04):
as you go through this, youhave a stack of resumes on your
desk that's five inches tall andit's easy for um you know any,
any individual in that process,you know not not to make it to
the round of people that youinterview.
Um, in my career, in myacademic career, I've worked
extremely hard to have a a 3.98grade point average in hopes
(18:28):
that it would at least get me inthe door to interview and
compete for a position.
Um, I love, uh, you know what PMarwood does, your mission, and
would appreciate youreconsidering my candidacy
because I think I can be ofservice to Pete Marwick and your
customers, blah, blah,something like that, something
(18:51):
like that.
So she wrote that letter,dropped it off in the mail and
then, it wasn't long, was likeyou know, because we were living
in south denver at the time andpete marwick was downtown
denver.
So the mail happened pretty fastand in like two or three days,
(19:13):
uh, her phone rang and it wasthis guy from pete marwick and
he said hey, we, we got yourletter today.
Thank you so much for writingthat.
And you're right, we do havelots of resumes that come in
here and we did reconsider yourcandidacy and we would love to
interview you.
Whenever they arranged theinterview, she went in.
(19:41):
She got the first offer thatPete Marwick made in that class,
because when they go in andhire for these roles, they'll
hire I don't know how manypeople, but a dozen, maybe more,
in a graduating class Becausethey're trying to staff up their
(20:02):
talent Right and uh, so, anyway, she went in and she got the
first offer from pete marwick.
Um, the salary was right inthere with what she was
expecting at the time seems likereally low.
Now it was back, you know, 35years ago yeah and uh and
ultimately, um, she didn't takethe pete marwick offer.
(20:24):
She got five offers from thebig six, as it turned turned out
, one of them didn't, justwouldn't interview anybody from
her school, you know, they justweren't, didn't have, wasn't a
high profile enough school, Iguess, for them.
Whatever they, didn't eveninterview people from her school
.
So she didn't get an offerthere, but she got an offer from
every, every single one of thefive remaining CPA firms.
(20:48):
So that's what I would offerkind of like as a, as a personal
anecdote not not me, but Janetum, and what that can look like,
you know, if you handle it inthe right way.
And I think what she, what shedid there to me, was kind of
like a template of success thatpeople can use.
Just be persistent, staypositive, put yourself in their
(21:11):
shoes.
Put yourself in the shoes of ahiring manager who's got 50
resumes sitting on their desk.
You know, yours may not haverisen to the top, for whatever
reason.
Maybe, maybe yours is on thebottom and they found the 12
they needed before they even gotto yours and yours never really
even got considered, which is,I think, probably what happened
with hers no, right right butwhen people see you know you
(21:33):
handle a situation like thatwith a lot of uh class, some uh
tenacity, you know persistence,professionalism.
They can't get enough peoplelike that and if you're going to
be that way in the interviewprocess, likely you're going to
conduct your career that way andthat's going to represent well,
(21:57):
for you know, a highlyprofessional firm like Pete
Marwick or whoever.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
You know, if no one
sends a thank you letter, really
nobody will even send that kindof letter.
So now you've positionedyourself in the 1% that at least
they're going to look at it andgo, wow, that shows some
tenacity, some resilience, somebelief in themselves and some
(22:26):
fight some hunger.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
So that's kind of
good, of good yeah, I'm writing
down a couple of things you saidbecause I really agree.
Okay, so what one is, I think?
I think an important element ofher communication back after
getting that, I think animportant element of
communication there wasempathizing with the people at
(22:51):
Pete Marwick.
You're not mad, you're notblaming them or anything.
You're empathizing with them.
I can only imagine how manyresumes must come across your
desk and how hard it is toselect the final pool of people
to interview.
So, you're empathizing with them.
You're really saying you know,if I were in your shoes, I may
(23:11):
have done exactly the same thing, but here's why I would like
you to reconsider, which kind ofleads to the next thing that
you said was and I think ismaybe the biggest takeaway of
the whole thing, this wholeinterview to me is stay in the
game because as long.
As long as you, as long as yougot the rejection letter but you
(23:32):
didn't let it just sit there.
You have more to say and aslong as you send that back, you
may not hear anything back.
But as long as you sendsomething back and you keep them
on the hook, you're staying inthe game and as long as you're
in the game you may get theinterview and offer that you
want.
So I'd say, stay in the game.
(23:54):
If they choose not to respondor do anything with it, that's
on them and it's okay.
There's some things you canlearn through that process.
Hopefully they'll provide yousome feedback of why you weren't
successful.
We should ask for that in thatletter, the one before we were
dealing with it.
As long as you stay in the game, there's always a chance.
I think that story about howJanet did that really is a great
(24:21):
example of that.
She just stayed in the game.
If she had just not doneanything, she got it and walked
away like everybody else andwalked away, then that's what
people expect to happen.
But you have somebody who'swilling to write back and be
empathetic and be persistent andbe professional.
(24:44):
It's an opportunity to turnlemons into lemonade, as they
say.
And as long as you're stayingin the game, there's always a
chance.
So I think staying in the gameis super important.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
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