#233 Narcissists Want the Crown, Leaders Grow the Kingdom

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Leadership isn't about pursuing titles but developing others to reach their potential. Our conversation explores how leadership perspectives evolve from seeking positions to focusing on creating meaningful impact and building capable teams.

• Shifting from wanting leadership positions to prioritizing good work and social influence
• How leadership positions naturally attract narcissistic personalities
• The distinction between self-serving leaders and those who develop others
• John Maxwell's philosophy of leadership as creating more leaders
• Leadership as a "talent pipeline" that transforms organizations over time
• Application of leadership principles in coaching contexts
• The challenges and rewards of leadership in various settings

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey you guys ready for the next question?

Speaker 2 (00:02):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (00:03):
All right, wait a minute, wait a minute.
Okay.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
I think my views have changed over time.
Don't leave me out.
Oh okay, no, I used to want tobe the leader and I always
thought that was the goal andit's really shouldn't be, really

(00:30):
um, I've I've since learnedI've seen people who want to be
the leader and those are usuallythe people you don't want to be
under um, so that's.
My view has changed there, uh,that I wanted to be the leader.
Now I don't want to be theleader, but I do want to do a
good job and I want to employgood, uh, social skills and

(00:55):
influence.
And if that translates intoleadership, a leadership
position, it probably will, butI'm not no longer chasing the
leadership position.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
I'm done.
I also read another book justreal quick.
Sorry, Liz.
No you're fine that I wastalking about.
This was kind of like about.
It's about leadership, but theysaid that leadership positions
attract narcissists like fliesto honey.
It is highly attractive forsomebody and Scott was just

(01:38):
referring to this who just wantsto be in a position of
leadership because they'retrying to pursue their own
narcissistic ends.
But that's not to say thateverybody who is in a leadership
position is a narcissist or hasoverbearing narcissistic
tendencies, because somebody ifyou're a John Maxwell fan and

(01:58):
you are 100% charged up aboutleading a team of people charged
up about leading a team ofpeople because your goal is to
create as many great leaders asyou possibly can You're helping
people get the most out of theircareers and their jobs and what
you're really trying to do iscreate a team of people who are

(02:19):
capable of being great leadersin other parts of the
organization and, as a result,you become, as a leader, this
incredible pipeline of talentwhere people leave your team and
they go on to be the manager ofyou know, the paint department,
the lumber department this guyover here is the lumber sales

(02:40):
guy.
You know whatever you know theybecome leaders and then they go
out having under your tutelageand they have their own teams at
that point, and then theyreplicate what they learned
under you, and so in that wayyou multiply that kind of
philosophy and presencethroughout the company and your
company over time becomes highperforming.

(03:00):
So there's that kind of leadertoo, and I think you know, for
people who are charged up's thatkind of leader too, and, and I
think you know, for for peoplewho are charged up about that
kind of leadership, I think youcan't have enough of them, and
so I I think for that, that kindof person would be the kind of
person who who has, you know,leadership is something they
want to do, um, and that's agood thing, because you can't

(03:22):
get enough of those kinds ofpeople.

Speaker 2 (03:25):
And just so you know, ben Liz Draven I call her
Draven, that's her middle name.
It's a great name, so to meit's Draven.
Draven, you're the captainright of the volleyball team, or
not?

Speaker 1 (03:38):
I was whenever I was playing.
Yeah, Now I just coach.

Speaker 2 (03:44):
Coach volleyball.
Mm-hmm, okay, was playing.
Yeah, okay, now I just coach,coach volleyball, okay so yeah
she's in a she's definitely in aleadership position as a coach.
So, yeah, there's all kinds ofways to apply what we're talking
about as a coach.
Yeah for sure.
Yeah, you can apply, apply allof this.
You can make all the mistakesor you can make all the wins,
you know.

Speaker 1 (04:05):
Right.

Speaker 2 (04:05):
As a coach.
It's a hard job.

Speaker 1 (04:09):
Yes it is, yes, it is .