#234 Learning Through Looking Back: How Reflection Shapes Effective Leaders

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featuring:
Draven Hope
Ben Townsend

Ever caught yourself replaying a meeting or conversation days later, questioning your every word and action? You're not alone in this leadership struggle.

Our latest installment in the Leadership is Influence series tackles the complex relationship between reflection and effective leadership. Through an insightful conversation with Liz Draven Hope from Oklahoma Wesleyan University and the show's executive producer, Ben Townsend, we explore how self-reflection can either propel your leadership forward or become a paralyzing force of self-doubt.

• Excessive self-reflection can undermine confidence and create unnecessary anxiety
• Fear often drives overthinking and becomes a "destructive force right between your ears"
• After-action reviews are valuable when they lead to learning and concrete improvements
• Effective reflection includes evaluating both successes and failures to fine-tune leadership approach
• The goal is to balance thoughtful analysis with the ability to move forward without rumination
• Situational lack of confidence affects even experienced leaders in certain contexts
• Turning reflection into action distinguishes productive analysis from unproductive worry

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
So here's another installment of our Leadership is
Influence series.
Liz Draven Hope, a student atOklahoma Wesleyan University,
had some questions aboutleadership and we recorded the
interview about an hour and ahalf long, so I decided to chop
up the interview into thedifferent questions that Liz had

(00:25):
for Ben and I.
So this is I think this isquestion four.
It's about reflection inleadership and how that
influences how you see yourselfand if you learn from mistakes.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
Welcome to the Scott Townsend Show brought to you by
Dietzelman Productions.

Speaker 3 (00:49):
So the next one is do you ever reflect after the fact
about how effective yourbehavior was in a particular
situation?
Is this ever a source of new ordifferent insights?

Speaker 1 (01:04):
I would say yes, do I ever, ever reflect?
I reflect too much, way toomuch.
As a matter of fact, uh, Iwould go into jordan's office
and I would say you know, I saidthis in the meeting the other
day and I'm not quite sure blah,blah, blah.
Then next week, after themeeting I'm not sure how I came

(01:27):
off on approaching that subjectin that particular way blah,
blah, blah the third week.
You know, I thought I wascoming off a little too hard, or
I don't think I made my point.
I don't think I made my point.
And she goes, man.
She finally said man, youreally think a lot about what,

(01:50):
what you say, and that's justlet it go.
Nobody is taking it asseriously as you are if at all.
They just heard you saysomething and that's it.
But you replay it over and over, and over and over in your mind
, you know, and days lateryou're still talking about it.

(02:12):
Basically, she was saying in anice way just shut up.
You know just get over don'tbeat yourself up, just move on
my god, uh, self-reflection isgood, but, um, I was taking it
to the extreme and what?
What I was?
What I was proving to her wasthat I am not a confident person

(02:34):
and uh, um, I was well.

Speaker 3 (02:39):
It's situational because I wouldn't say about you
you are not a confident person,I know, know you pretty good,
pretty well, but I do think itcan be situational and I agree
with kind of like.
You know, everybody deals withfear and fear can be a very kind
of controlling thing thathappens.
It can be a very destructiveforce right there between your

(03:02):
ears.
You don't have to have anybodyelse involved in the
conversation but with yourself.
You know, after somethinghappened and there's always ways
we can say things better, dothings better, that sort of
thing.
Fear is that thing that getsinto your mind and it is
absolutely, you know, doggedlypersecuting you and you're doing

(03:26):
it to yourself.
And so I think, I think youknow, like an after action
review, you know, for some kindof meeting that you had, you
know, thinking back on how yousaid something, was your prep
right.
I think those things areextremely valuable but you have
to turn them into learning andaction so you can remove it from
.
You know this kind of area ofregret that's really built out

(03:47):
of low self-confidence and fear,you know.
And so, if you really so, Ithink those things are very
important.
You know, as part of thelearning process, whether you
did something great or didsomething not so great, you know
it was, whether it was a goodthing or a bad thing.
I think there's things you cantake.
I mean, this thing works sowell.
I'm going to always start mypresentation with X, y, z, you

(04:09):
know.
Or I'm always going to have acertain number of graphs in here
, you know, because it was socompelling.
Or, you know, when somebodysaid you know was kind of
opposing my idea, I think Ireacted a little too emotionally
to it.
If you need to go apologize tothe person, then go do it, you
know, and then learn.
Okay, so I need to.
I need to learn how to be alittle more measured.

(04:30):
Or maybe I'm too measured, youknow, when I'm doing stuff and I
have to have um more enthusiasm, you know, than my measured
response.
You know it can be all thosedifferent things and fine tuning
is something I don't think youever stopped doing, but I think
it's really important to dothose things to to evaluate your

(04:53):
performance and take whateveraction is necessary to short up
in the way you think it needs togo and then move on.

Speaker 1 (05:01):
Yeah, I would agree, Do you?
I mean, I reflect all the time.

Speaker 3 (05:04):
I reflect too much yeah, that can kind of work you
into a corner right.

Speaker 1 (05:11):
Is this ever a source of new or different insights?
Ever a source of new ordifferent?

Speaker 3 (05:15):
I mean you know.

Speaker 1 (05:21):
I've reacted negative , I've had bad reactions to
things and it didn't work outwell.
Good thing it's never happenedto me, yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:02):
The Scott Townsend Show is a Deeds O'Man production
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For more episodes, visit theScott Townsend Show is a Deeds
O'Man production.
For more episodes, visit theScott Townsend Show YouTube
channel, listen on ApplePodcasts or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows.

Speaker 3 (06:13):
Thank you.