August 22, 2024 • 50 mins
Clippers Talk with Adam Auslund with Dime Dropper joining who talks about his lowest and highest points as a clipper fan, basketball convictions, old school vs. new school after the ANT comments, his excitement for intuit dome and more.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to Clippers Talk for part two of this conversation
with Darian Vissiri aka dime Dropper. I'm Adam Mosland. This
is Clippers Talk. It's been a podcast for a long time.
Two weeks ago I said I need to get with
the times and start a YouTube channel. You can find
that at Clippers Talk. Now find me. I follow Adam a.
This is part two. If you missed part one that
(00:26):
was on Lockdown Clippers where Dime Dropper was hosting and
peppering me with questions. Now the tables have turned a
little bit, I want to go a little bit deeper
with one of your favorite Clippers hosts and fans out there.
He really is a masked hell of a following through
his passion for this team going into his twentieth season.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
I believe Darian.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Thanks for doing this, oh man, Adam, this is I'm
just honored to be a part of this amazing cast
of guests you've had on recently Clipper media, Clipper fans.
I mean I actually last couple of days because I've
been behind. I have no time to watch shows anymore.
I've taken podcast p out of the rotation.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yeah, I hit the eject on that too.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Yeah, and so I literally binged every episode that you
made Rob, Matt Moore, Kelly, Jamal, I was like halfway
through Andrews.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
But I've listened to every single one.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
I apologies if I'm forgetting any guests that we're featured on.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Brian. Of course it was. It's been amazing, So I'm
not worthy. I'm not worthy. Bless you credit to you.
It's been awesome. All right. Well, I'm trying to keep
the content coming.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
We've had three shows so far this week, including Jamal,
Christopher yesterday, Andrew Greif as you mentioned before that, and
now we have our dime.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
I forgot Joseph. I'm sorry, Joseph. Joseph miss on Twitter.
We do miss Joseph, but I got news for you.
Ain't coming back anytime soon.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
I wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
I may have hurt the cause after that doing that
episode with him. I brought up too many bad memories
from Clippers game with Joseph. He's got a love hate
relationship with the team, but I do think he's excited
about this season and more optimistic than most. I want
to get down to your basketball corps a little bit
here and the foundation that you've kind of built your
(02:15):
principles off of you always talk about Darien basketball convictions.
Who are the players that helped form those convictions over time?
Give me some of those guys and the type of
ball that you look for.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Wow, I mean, I think that's a great question.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
I haven't actually been asked that on a show before,
but I think any kid that grew up in Los
Angeles during my time, like Kobe Bryant, was the example
of greatness.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Like he the whole Mama.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Mentality is one thing, and people kind of, you know,
twist that so many different ways. But just how hard
he seemed to take, how seriously he seemed to take
every single game that he played in at least pre Achilles.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Of course after that it was totally different.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
But it felt like every game mattered so much and
that winning was ultimately what meant the most. And you know,
getting better by any means. I think that's something. Whenever
I hit a wall in school or anything growing up,
I always thought, well, Kobe always said, if you just
work as hard as you can at something, you can
be better at it, And so I always felt as though,
even if I hit a wall, I'm just gonna be
(03:20):
the best version of myself that I can be and
try to be better at whatever that particular thing is.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
So I would say Kobe would be number one.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
And then when we got CP three, I think, also
in the negative sense, I took a lot of his characteristics.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
I mean, whining a lot.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
I didn't bring the foulbating to the court, though I
never was great at drawing fouls.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
On the court. Man, you got to get that rip through,
move go and come on.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
I know, but CP three, in terms of like watching
what he did on the court and his handle, that
was something that really inspired me. But I'm a big
we're talking basketball convictions. I like guys then moved the
ball quickly, you know that, don't spend too much time
on the ball. Guys like Larry Bird, Jokic Magic. I know,
(04:01):
Magic is interesting because he does have the ball a lot.
But the way he just kind of throws it up
and pushes it quickly. I love watching that, and I'm
trying to think of more modern examples. But somebody who
actually and I know he's a kind of an enemy
of us, I actually do love the way Devin Booker plays.
And I think you saw so many ways how he
can be effective with any sort of players with Team USA,
and also Steph Curry, like I am a big proponent
(04:22):
of the Warriors offense. Like ball movement and player movement
is always my style. So I would say those are
my basketball convictions. And then a defense defense first mindset
to team building, which as we talked about on Lockdown
Clippers is but like we're looking at for this upcoming
Clippers team. And I also love guys that can play
in the mid post and score from three levels, so
like Kawhi leonard Is. I love watching him play, you know, Kobe, Kawhi,
(04:46):
guys Michael Jordan even and when Lebron in his later years,
I want to say, like twenty twelve onwards, when he
really got a little bit more of a back to
basket game after working with a team, like in twenty
eighteen when he was hitting those crazy t rounds over
against the Raptors, Like I like when.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Lebron leans into that.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
So guys that can you know, score from three levels
but mid post, have a mid range game.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
I love that kind of stuff. So I'd say that and.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Then moving the ball quickly, so that those are my
basketball convictions. You mentioned Kawhi there, what does it feel
like to me?
Speaker 2 (05:17):
I could be wrong.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
You can clarify, but you haven't fully embraced Kawhi Leonard
as a Clipper.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
I'm glad you asked.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
So.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
When we got Kawhi on July fifth, twenty nineteen, I
was literally the happiest person on the planet. Like I remember,
I was working at my summer camp that I've been
I went to for fifteen years, and one of the
employees that was just like a little like uptight, like
you know. It was one day he would be in
the happiest mood ever, and then the other days he
would be just completely a crazy person, just so mean.
(05:51):
And I remember one time he said, why do you
keep freaking smiling, dude, Kawhi this, Kawhi that. And I'm
like the fact that someone's telling me that I'm being
I look too happy, That's a great problem to have.
So I was ecstatic that whole year. That was my
senior year in college. I was talking so much, Adham.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
You wouldn't even believe it.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Like I was like, we got Kawhi, we got the
best player in the league. He chose the Clippers. I
was like on the Kawhi bandwagon, Like no other.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Was that the first year with the dime Dropper YouTube.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
No, that was my senior of college that got taken
from by COVID got cut short. And the bubble is
right right before the bubble is when I started Dime Dropper.
But my first episode of Dime Dropper was why I
didn't want this season to resume, because I was in
this weird like I was in a weird situation and
I think a lot of other Clipper fans may have
felt this way too. And I felt as though we
(06:40):
were definitely going to make the conference finals. I was overconfident,
and I was like, I've been waiting for us to
make it past.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
The second round for so long.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
I did not wait all this time to potentially see
us maybe even win our first ring across the world,
across the country. I mean, and I know that sounds
really like spoiled, but I'm sorry, but we have a
dream as kids, as fans, and I wanted to be
here at home, like I don't want it to be
in Orlando with no fans, Like I'm sorry, I'm really sorry,
but that's how it is. But weirdly, I just couldn't
(07:08):
see the Lakers win because I knew I had to
hear it. So I was kind of in this situation
where I was struggling to even get behind the concept
of the bubble and I was dragged in I was
doing content on it, and I just felt as though
Kawhi and Paul George just went out a little two week.
You know, we talked about Paul George not emptying the
clip against Dallas. Kawhi Leonard shot like almost was it
(07:31):
was it thirty shots almost against Philly in Game seven
and twenty nineteen, and just he didn't even shoot I
think twenty in Game seven against Denver. I just wanted
him to go out swinging and I just didn't feel
like he did that, and so I was really really
pissed after that. But then he did kind of win
me over the following year with the amazing performance in
twenty twenty one against Dallas. But I will say Paul
(07:54):
George won me over even more because the moment that
we had with him was so big, like, and I
was there for it, and I was at every single
one of those playoff games. But you know, we referenced
this night a lot, and as much as it's the
Terrence Man game.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Paul Druge was the face.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
He was the guy that was gonna get blamed had
we lost, and he deserves more credit to me than
he gets from his for his performance in Game six.
The dude played like forty six minutes and like rebounded
guarded one through five, had twenty plus points, and grew.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
As the game went on. He didn't shy away as
the game went on. So that was those Terrence Man shots.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Those wide open threes don't happen without Paul George and
the gravity he had.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Right.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
So my closing thing with Kauwhi is I was still
super behind it in twenty twenty three, and then these
last two years it's just been like, and it's not
really necessarily any fault of Kawhi's, but it's five years
in and I had season tickets last year and I
saw some incredible regular season Kawhi. But my first thought
when we got Kawhi in twenty nineteen was I can't
(08:56):
wait for sold out Clipper playoff games like we had
with Lob City, but with this killer champion on our side.
And I've still never gotten to experience this, So it's
not and it's hard for me to get myself excited
for another season of the Kawhi experience. I also feel
as though when he's not playing, you don't really get
(09:17):
the benefits of like like, for example, Blake Griffin and
Chris Paul and even Paul George, they were such huge
ambassadors of the team. I think they did a great job,
you know, voicing about how passionate they were playing for
the Clippers and this and that, And Kawhi is just
not really that kind of guy. He's more behind the scenes.
He treats it more like a nine to five, And
I just don't know if the passion for the organization
(09:38):
is there. I don't know if he has that pass
for any organization. And I'm a very big guy into
the emotions of fandom and stuff like that and playing
to the crowd, and he's very business oriented. But I
wouldn't have this problem if he was healthy. It's just like,
I just don't see like how this has been a
very fun experience. So it's nothing against Kawhi, but that's
just how I see it. I don't see like this
(09:59):
has been a great experience.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
It's been frustrating for Clipper Nation.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
I think overall the last five years, she just had
so much hope, and unfortunately Kawhi's body has betrayed him.
What is you brought up twenty twenty in the bubble?
What's the most disappointed you've been with a Clipper team
or a Clipper player? What was the instance of that?
Definitely twenty twenty. Paul George, I would say, is number one.
(10:26):
But you know what, Adam, I really was mad at.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Kawhi because I knew Paul George was suspect in the playoffs,
because I watched OKAC for two years. I didn't miss
a playoff game, and everyone this was really.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Getting be mad at him when he came to the Clippers.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Everyone was looking at the regular season that Paul had
and was telling me about the shoulder injuries and that's
why he didn't have a great series. By the way,
he still had some good numbers in that Portland series.
But I watched the games and the same exact stuff
we criticized him for with the Clippers, the timely turnovers,
the looking great one game and then the next just
looking totally different. That happened in that series, that happened
(11:02):
against Utah two, and so I was suspect on Paul.
So my point is when it got even though he
was injured on acknowledging that when a guy shows me
the same things when he's injured as when he's healthy,
I think it's more about the player and less about
the injury. And Paul George repeated those very things as
a Clipper, So I did expect a potential meltdown from
(11:23):
him Kawhi. That was like the only real big blemish
of Kawhi's postseason career if we're really talking about and.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
It was really Game seven, Yeah, I think no good
in that series.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Overall. He was great against Dallas.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
The reason they were off three to one was because
of Kawhi and those collapses. By the way, I think
he still ended up being a plus in the series.
Like it was the Mantrez Harrald minutes instead of a
beast to Zoobots. It was some stuff from Doc that was.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
That was a bit of a head scratcher, it was,
But ultimately, you know, we asked our stars to close
and I don't think in Game six, second half and
Game seven seven was because like he was the one
guy I love too that you're different than everyone else.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
You are the champion. You're the reason why I've been
puffing my chest out all year.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
I just felt very let down. But the thing is,
as I said, I forgave him for that. You know,
I got over it. It's not like I don't think
he tried, but it did feel like a lack of
desperation in the way that he played that night, and
I think that whole roster like didn't even want to
be there. And the way they talk about it after
is like, I don't like hearing about this. The twenty
twenty and we would have won the season then shut
(12:29):
down and like just we had a golden opportunity, Adam,
we had double digit leads in three straight games against
the team we had more experience then.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
But I'm actually very thankful for that collapse.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
It did a lot in terms of us getting rid
of Glenn Rivers and now bringing in ty Lou.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
It made twenty twenty one that much more special.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
And to have that moment where we got out of
the second round in front of the fans, I wouldn't
trade that for the world. So I'm so thankful. And
it also kind of was the start of me building
a platform. So I actually think I think the bat
Well got to the bubble collapse because It made next
year that much sweeter. And you know, we get stronger
with this kind of pain. Atom we really do with
(13:06):
the Clipper fans are the most loyal fans in the world, man,
and I just want to make people see that.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
I don't know if I can go as far as
I'm glad they collapsed of the bubble, but I will
say this, I know damn well that if the Clippers
one championship had come during the most unique setting ever
in NBA history, no outside fans would give them credit
if people and people don't still give the they don't
give the Lakers credit, who already had sixteen rings. They
(13:35):
weren't given the Clippers their respect, they would have had
to have won in twenty twenty one as well. What's
the most proud you've ever been of the Clippers in
a player that game? Terrence Man.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
I mean, you know, Terrence Man is from Lowell, Massachusetts,
and it is around my age. So I actually heard
about Terrence from from my you know friends at UMAs
that oh does this guy. He's from low He's one
of the better players in the state. He might might
go to the NBA before we even drafted him. So
when we got him. I was rooting for him a lot,
and the fact that that happened and the biggest game possible, Like,
(14:12):
I'm forever indebted to him and a lot of the
members of that team. And that's why so many Clipper
fans are going to stick by Terrence forever. And when
we talk about like that ambassador and pride for the franchise,
Terrence Man is like the first to do any public
event for the Clippers, it seems, and he's just such
a great ambassador for the team. And the one reason
why Clipper fans don't ever get too mad at him
is because you just know he's gonna give a hundred
(14:34):
percent all the time, and that's all you can ask
for from as a fan.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
And he's been putting really tough positions and has had
to play so many different roles. He's never complained about it.
Is he your favorite Clipper current Clipper? And if so,
who's second?
Speaker 3 (14:48):
I'd say he's my favorite current Clipper, And then I'd
say my second favorite is probably it's either Zoo or Baton,
because Zoo is our longest what's up.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
You got to pick hot Seed, I'm going to go
with Nico. I'm gonna go with Nico.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
I just love the guy because I liked him in Portland,
and so the fact that we got him, I was like,
just like we talked about in lock Downald, we got him.
We're like, uh, this is the guy from Charlotte that
was overpaid. He's washed now, but he's proven to everybody
over the last couple of years he's far from washed.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Yeah. Five years later, he's four years later, he's still playing.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Well.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
All right, I got some tough ones here.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
I I want to ask you about this because I
saw your comment on X regarding the back to back
excuse the Clippers schedule excuse which was just released recently.
You don't like making any excuses. You're no nonsense type
of guy. Explain your position regarding you know where you
(15:49):
stand on Clipper Nation sometimes and people like me being
irked and vexed and annoyed with the schedule, especially in
a year where they're opening their own arena and they
still have sixteen back to backs and the second toughest
strength to schedule.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Okay, Well, I do want to acknowledge that I don't
think the Clippers get proper respect, and they never really
have by the league. I remember back in the dog
days and like oh eight and oh nine. I used
to watch teams with my Laker fan uncle, and he
would root for us.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
We were so bad. He just wanted us to get
the eight seed, to have to have.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
LA have two teams in the playoffs, to have you know,
his nephew have some joy. So he would root for us,
And I remember him saying, like, the Clippers get no
respect from officials, Like, so that's that's the thing to me.
It seems like we've never been the beneficiary of big
calls in playoff games, like I can't think of one.
We're always you know, the campaign steal that we should
(16:43):
have had in Game four twenty fourteen, Game five against OKC,
like and in those collapses, the three to one chokes
in Game six against Houston and in the bubble, we
never got a bailout call, like it feels like we
never get a bailout call, Like it's just a bad
call that goes our way for once, doesn't happen. And
so I do feel as though that the league can
(17:05):
be nicer to us, But just like Jamal said on
your last episode, it's something that we just can't control.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
There's eleven I'm sorry there's ten.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Of But how many things do we talk about on
these shows that we have no control over?
Speaker 3 (17:18):
Well, okay, well I'm gonna say this. The team can
control their performance. We can't control it. But they can
control their performance. They can't control the schedule makers making decisions.
And plus, what do we complaining about more back to
backs or matten A games? We got no Madden A
games zero, which I don't think is normal. That's not
I don't even know if that's a good thing.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
How many teams with their own arena have a ton
of Mattine games Like that is? I think it's built in.
You build an arena, you shouldn't have any matin A games.
I can't give much credit to the NBA for that
one zero though. We don't even have one or two.
In the playoffs. We might have a twelve thirty game
on a Sunday.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
It happens. Yeah, that's true, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (17:56):
So we have none, And you don't think the back
to backs, though, are legitimate complains?
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Sixteen back to backs if.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Ten other teams didn't have them, like they have to
choose someone, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Like so many of those teams have their own arena,
the Lakers only have thirteen.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
I'll always sit in I see what you're saying, because
they share with the hockey team. The Lakers pay rent.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
The Clippers have their own arena, and they still have
three more back to backs than the Lakers.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
How many Madden A games the Lakers have.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
I feel as that we would have found a way
to complain somehow, Like it's just I think I do
really think that a lot of Clipper fans, like I
think we are the victims of bad luck injuries mainly
throughout the course of our history.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
But I think sometimes we just look for things to
complain about.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
And I think that's funny coming from me, because a
lot of people think I'm some huge complainer, But I
just expressed frustration when things are bad in a very
loudmouthed way, in a very passionate way. But I really
think we guys got to suck it up and play,
you know, Phoenix Game one, and we go from there.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
It's just when I look at teams records on the
second night of a back to back in the NBA,
good team and there are at like five hundred on
the second night of a back to back. You can't
tell me that stuff doesn't have an influence, a big
influence on performance. It's easy to say, I just suck
it up and play. It's another where you just don't
have enough left in the tank.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
It happens. True, they're human, but yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
I think when Jerry West, the late great Jerry West,
when he would speak up about the reasons they need
to get their own arena partially because of the schedule
and them getting the short end of the stick, has
there ever been a bigger no excuses, no nonsense guy
than Jerry West, And he would comments on this like
it has to be somewhat real and legitimate.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Okay, So I mean, should we look at the teams
that have the sixteen back to backs and see which
ones have their own arena? Because there are there are
probably some of them that do. I mean they had
to choose someone. I think it's a bigger issue because
our best player probably won't play them.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
I think that's the bigger concern.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Yeah, it is, and the league can't account for that.
That's not on them in that way. I get where
you're coming from. Speaking to old school. Anthony Edwards had
a comment recently talking about how outside of Michael Jordan,
I'm paraphrasing, the league wasn't very skilled back then it
(20:23):
was Jordan, and he didn't say plumbers. But we know
the argument that's been going around since my old friend
Barry mccachinnor made it probably a damn decade ago, and
then JJ Reddick and these guys stole the terminology applied
it to their own podcasts and espen and there is
this schism between the old school and the new school.
(20:43):
You're a guy that has gone all the way back
as far as you can with the tape, and you're
going through eras and studying the game over spans of
decades and seeing how it was played. Do you think
there's any legitimacy to what Anthony Edwards said or is
he completely out of his mind?
Speaker 3 (21:03):
I think Ant spoke up about his lack of interest
in watching basketball when he first began his career. He
literally came out and said, I don't love watching basketball
more of a football guy. He's like, the reps are
solved or the calls are saw. He's like, I don't
even like watching it. So given that and that he's
younger than me, which is crazy to believe he's like
an absolute freaking age here, but he is. No, I
(21:24):
don't think there's much validity to it because I didn't
even get to watch the nineties. I didn't even get
to watch Jordan. But obviously, as you said, like I
put in a lot of work. But you know, for me,
it started with no, there's to me, there's no validity.
I mean, there's a lot of skill players in NBA history.
I think the thing about skill and the way we
use that word is it's become just about shooting and
ball handling.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
And I think there are other skills in the game personally.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
Uh, And I think flashy doesn't always equal better. I
think that's one thing that we mistake a lot of
is that flash doesn't always equal better. And you know
what's a great example of this comparison at him is
Kawhi Leonard versus Paul George. If you put on a
Paul George highlight real to someone and you show it
to them and then you show Kawhi, is gonna be like, yeah,
this Paul George guy, he's something else.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
He's an alien. But when you watch games.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
The simplicity of Kawhi's game is fundamentals.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
They're so sharp.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
He keeps it simple, he has go to moves, doesn't
overcomplicate anything. And I think Kawhi is actually a great
example of somebody with a little bit more of an
old school feel, even though he's a great three point shooter,
but he's got the mid post game and stuff like
that where he really looks for the mid range and
stuff like that. As far as me starting the history
of the game, I just got annoyed with the back
(22:35):
and forth that you're talking about. I grew up from
an Iranian culture that's like really respectful to elders.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
That's just like a major thing.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
So I'm not of the business of just discrediting older
people because their opinions might be outdated or because they're
older and whatnot. And I don't accuse people of just
not getting with the times. I want to see their
perspective of them seeing more than me in life. But
I will say I start out by being curious as
a kid, Like getting into the game in No. Six,
I was really curious about what happened before me because
there was so much great basketball before me, and so
(23:07):
I bought like DVDs like those Hardwood Classic DVDs off Amazon,
Sir Charles Came, the Dream, the Magic.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
One, The Jordan Won, the Larry Ones.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
I would always watch and study and watch the old
games on ESPN Classic and then Hardwood Classics. But then
after a while I was like, Okay, I kind of
have an understanding of like what these guys were.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Like.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
I understand that Kevin McKell had insane postgame. I understand
that Tim Hardaway's between the legs crossover was you know,
crazy and all that stuff. But then the last Dance
and me getting on social media changed everything for me
because I went on Twitter and I saw and I'm
not even you know me, I don't like the Utah Jazz, Like,
that's not a team that I like, that's my least
(23:45):
favorite team like in NBA history. I don't like John
Stockton and I don't like Crome alone, but I acknowledge
their talent. And I saw somebody saying like and this
was like before Chris Paul's Phoenix tenure. They were like,
he's way better than Stockton. There's no debate, nothing, And
I was like and they were like, yes, Stuck is
not even good. He just passed him alone and got
assists all the time through that, and I was like, okay,
(24:06):
Like I've never heard such disrespect, Like, yeah, there's probably
a lot of assists that John Stockton got to carom alone,
and there is the whole home scorekeepers thing, but you
don't just get fifteen thousand assists for past poaching to
one guy. Like That's when I was like, what is
going on here? Like is this how people talk about
(24:26):
the past now? So I was moved by the last
dance because it just caused so much debate, and I realized, like,
have I ever really been chiming in on NBA history
without actually watching the full games? Because you know me,
I'm team full games. Kawhi Leonard said it himself, team
full Games. So there's no way I can judge these
guys without trying to put in the proper research, because like,
(24:48):
it's just impossible for me to speak about Jordan's career
the way I do Lebron's. I've been here for Lebron's,
I've seen his ups and downs, I've seen the talk
between each season. So then I was like, you know what,
as part of my channel, I'm going to start with
the first like person that people even put in the
goat conversation Bill Russell, and I'm just going to go
from there each year and watch every game that exists.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
It takes a long time.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
I've only because the NBA season stagnates my process massively.
But the amount of things I've learned now I'm on
nineteen seventy two, but the amount of things I've learned,
like it's crazy, Like it's really crazy, the stuff, the
way we talk about, and I think it all began
with older players discrediting the modern players, and I think
this is the clapback. But now it's become like Republican
(25:34):
and Democrat at this point, Like it's really insane, and
it all stems from Lebron and Jordan and I can't
stand that because I've been of the believer that there's
plenty of other guys you can have as the goat,
because I've really just been so moved by some of
these guys. So that's how I feel about that, I think,
and is just one of many people in this generation
that are in this world where we're constantly you know,
(25:55):
it's skipping Shannon on Twitter twenty four to seven.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Yeah, Spy versus by Red versus Blue all the time.
Everything's polarized. That's what gets the most attention. I like
to respect my elders, even if I do feel like
they're yelling at a cloud. Sometimes I wait to push
back if they criticize the current era and the modern
game and say these guys suck and there's no defense
(26:21):
being played anymore, and they make these broad generalizations, because
when I do go back and watch full games, I
used to be a disciple of nineties basketball because that's
what I grew up watching.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Most.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
When I go back and watch full games now, it
looks very different than how I remember it. And I think,
while Anthony Edwards is wrong in saying that there weren't
skilled guys outside of Michael Jordan back then, do I
also think there's more skilled guys than ever now?
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Hell yes, Hell yes.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
The stuff guys are doing now would only be dreamt
up back then. I think international is a great way
to inform yourself with the leaps and bounds the NBA
and the basketball game has.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Made where you go from.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
I think the Dream Team ended up playing seven or
nine guys that were in the league back then, and
then this year in the Olympics they had to go
through I think sixty one guys that were NBA players
on international teams, like the talent pool has grown tremendously,
partially because a great part of this is because of
(27:27):
Michael Jordan and the influence he had throughout the world.
A lot of these guys that have been MVPs recently
aren't even playing basketball if it's not for Michael Jordan,
you know, for the top five guys in the league
might be European now or international players. I think the
game's never been better. I also think there are times
where the three point shooting in the analytics have hurt
(27:50):
the game, even though I think it's what they're doing
overall is smart. They're playing the numbers, they're playing the analytics,
they're playing the math. Is it as pleasing to the eye,
it's varied of an attack.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Is it as entertaining? I don't know. I still think
at its best it is. It is.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
But there are times where you see, you know, there's
ninety three pointers taken in a game or something like that,
and it's extreme. But I try to save my criticism
for the past until it's warranted. Would they take shots
at guys today, That's kind of my stance on it.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
I don't know how you feel about that.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
Well, I'm you know, I'm part of the younger crowd,
so they're usually the ones taking shots. I am protective
of the history of the game because I just feel
that there are a lot of inaccuracies about it. I
never go and say that players aren't good and stuff
like that, or like I'm not a big time machine guy.
I don't like the you know, these guys couldn't play
(28:45):
in this time thing, unless it's like I'll give you
an example, like someone like Eric Dan Pierre. He was
a very specific player for his time. But I don't
think he's bad at basketball because I don't think he
fit today's game. Like, I don't think he's a bad
basketball player.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
He was.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
He was needed for post defense and rebounding in toughness
back then, but he's not a guy that would really
get many minutes today. His skill set isn't quite needed.
But I don't think he's a bad basketball player. And
it's stuff like that, like just just kind of contextualizing
the strategy of the game like back then, or even
when I say back then, I'm literally talking twelve years ago.
In prior you wanted a second big out there for rebounding,
(29:21):
Like it wasn't about getting back in transition, it was
about crashing the offensive glass and stuff like that, having
a second interior defender, So it was a totally different
different game. I think the one thing that really inspired
me about continuing to watch the old games is when
it was COVID and I'd been watching you know, the spacing,
the four out, one in and five out offenses for
(29:42):
a couple of years. And I even stopped taking mid
ranges when I played pickup, like it got that bad.
I stopped taking mid ranges. I was like three in layups,
like that's more efficient. And I went back and watched
and I was seeing some things that we just don't
see now, which doesn't necessarily mean it's better, but it
was just different. Like Charles Barkley, I was watching him
and yeah, he would back down guys for a long time,
(30:03):
but every single time down he was backing down the
guy at his position, like not on a switch or whatever,
at his position. I'm like, how does he have the
energy to do this? Like this is that was so
surprising to me. And some of the some of the
footwork and like like when I see Pat when I
was watching a dream Team game, like I saw Patrick
Ewan catch the ball and just like turn and face,
no dribble, just put up a mid range right over
(30:24):
the top of guy. And I was like that little stuff,
like the no dribbling and like the simplicity of it.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
I do enjoy some of that, and like, I'll even
go back.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
And watch a two thousands game and I remember seeing
it was I think it was the eight playoffs Cavs
and Celtics, and Rondo was getting like a high ball
screen and Ben Wallace came and just rocked him with
a hedge, and I was like, I can't remember the
last time I got out of my seat, and I
was like, that's a great hedging of a screen, or
that's a great screen.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Like those little things.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
The rebounding, Like there's no Reggie Evans today anymore, but
he's one of my most beloved clippers of all time.
I haven't seen a guy offensive rebound like that, And
to me, that's a gil the timing of it and
all that. But a guy like Reggie Evans is also
someone who wouldn't touch the court much today. But I
don't think he's like, you know, a bad basketball player,
so like, that's that's kind of my thing is.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
There's a lot of things that I appreciate.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
Yeah, I also think back in the day, like when
we're talking old old like sixties and seventies, they were
taught to dribble the ball a completely different way, which
is like the hand on top of the ball iverson
and all these guys changed the whole dynamic of how
you could dribble a basketball, so you literally could not
do the same things with the ball in your hands.
So it's limited to guards a lot, which obviously partially
(31:33):
partially why it was a big man's game, So you
have to just pass and move a lot more. And
like watching teams like the old Celtics of like the
Bill Russell days, when they get a rebound, it is
ball flying and players flying, and I love that. I
love these kind of things. So just little intricacies of
the game. But yeah, man, I think every era has
its beauty. And what you said, like the what do
(31:55):
you like watching more? That's totally to me in the
eyes of the beholder, Like to me, that's just subjective.
But there's more guys that can do stuff with the
ball nowt there's no doubt about it.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
It is subjective.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
But I would say for the people who are like, oh,
it was more physical back then, and then they show
the same ten plays of Detroit hitting Michael Jordan, It's
like you guys are recycling the same thing over and
over and they played far more times than just these
five games that you're showing here.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Well, let me ask you this. Let me ask you
this Devil's advocate.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
I agree with the with that stuff, that the clay
that they use are poor example, But what do you
feel about the NBA in the mid two thousands and
Jerry Colangelo and all them changing the rules to try
to help guards out in perimeter players out because that
all four finals that was like really hard to score,
Like the hand checking was super hard like and the
physicality off the ball, they're bumping.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Each other left and right.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
I mean, I'm not saying this doesn't exist now, but
just you know, there's levels to it.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
So like, I just you can see that stuff in
the playoffs today sometimes too, they let you get away
with so much more. Hand checking is completely subjective. It
is just like an offensive lineman holding in the NFL.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
How much are you willing to let them.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Get away with before you throw a flagger in this
case call a foul.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
It still goes on today all the time.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
And I have tape of Michael Jordan and guys trying
to d him up and them calling handshake and hand
checking in ninety four, at ninety five, and nostalgia heads
who just love to say, oh, it was better back
than in more physical, And I'm seeing all these touch
fouls on Michael Jordan NonStop.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
And then meanwhile.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
He's leveraging the rules because they couldn't play zone so
he can iso against Muggsy Bogues on the far side. Well,
everybody else is cleared out because you can't just guard space,
you have to hard double on a guy with the basketball.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
I think that stuff.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
I mean in the eighties, the reason Detroit stood out
so much is because they were the antithesis of how
everybody else was playing back then. They weren't all playing
that physical. Yes, there were fights, there was craziness. I
don't really attribute that to skill. But if you look
in the mid eighties, teams average one hundred and ten
points per game while taking three threes a game. They
weren't even utilizing a three point line, yet they were
(34:12):
still averaging the same amount of points as today. There
wasn't defense being played at all. They were rolling the
ball out there and running up and down the court.
I mean, even if you go back to Wilt Chamberlain
and Bill Russell, the dirty little secret about those stats
is they had thirty more possessions per game to accumulate stats,
and nobody wants to talk about it, or you're a
hater or a bad guy. I used to worship the
(34:33):
old school game, but I can't say that things haven't
evolved for the better because what's happened is to me,
the ultimate high I guess underscoring point or central point
of why the game's better today is because guys that
you mentioned, like Reggie Evans and guys who are specialists,
they're out of the league because this If you can't
do everything, if you can't shoot, you can't play anymore.
(34:56):
You have to be skilled at everything.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
We have.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
We have a guy who might start that's not that
skill at everything though, Derek Jones. He's really just an athlete.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
He still can shoot a three pointer.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
But how many guys are shooting thirty two to thirty
three percent. You find a lot of guys that were
shooting thirty three percent.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
It's still a unique thing, like there aren't that compared
to what there were back then. The reason it's gotten
so positionless is because your flaws get picked on more
than ever. In today's game, defenses are much more sophisticated.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
People say they don't play defense. It's like, dude, you
have to cover so much of the floor.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
It's so much different than back then when they're lining
up inside the three point line to set up their offense.
It's just I don't know. I think guys are better
than ever. I also think guys back then were great too.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
Well.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Which point do you want me to push back on first?
Speaker 3 (35:45):
Because we can go on and on, like I've done
this for five years, so I'm all, I can do
this all day.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
But let me just say this. Let's start with the
first one.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
I agree that there is hand checking that exists, and
when I see guys handcheck, it actually helps them massively,
even now, because it literally is a big dude putting
his hand and impeding your your progress driving the basketball.
But I agree that the playoffs are physical now and
you can still see those things, but I can't say
it's the same as four or prior In those playoff games.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
And secondly, I'm not saying this is the same, that's all.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
I'm just saying because in six exaggerated a bit.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
Oh see, that's what I don't like when people say
they make it seem like they're playing a totally different sport.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
I don't like that. I don't think that. That's why
I said I.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
Respect the grind it takes to make the NBA in
any era, So like, I'm never going to say that
somebody couldn't play in a certain era, unless, as I said,
it's one of those situations where like a Reggie Evans,
it's just his game just doesn't fit. But the like
in six man, do you remember how many thirty point
per game scores came out of nowhere?
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Like that was crazy?
Speaker 3 (36:47):
There was a clear emphasis And the amount of small
guards that have won MVP since they changed the rules
is telling. And and as you said, let's talk about
the zone thing that has also changed, entry passes of
the post and the isolation stuff.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
My thing is.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
People are always said, why doesn't MB just get it
on the block because the double comes so much sooner now,
Like it's not the same as it was back then,
but you.
Speaker 3 (37:12):
Can still catch well, as you say, as you always
see that we can still catch the ball.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
Get double team to make a read though, sure, but
they're not going to work.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
People want MB to play like Shaq sometimes, and it's like, Guys,
I don't know if Shaq would play the same way
in today's game. In fact, I think you would have
to keep his weight off and be Orlando Shack if
you're played in today's game, for sure.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
But if we're talking about this this rule change of
taking away zones, Shaq was part of the reason they
did this, and the first season after they still had
legal zones, he crushed them.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
So like for me, h, yeah, it is.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
But you know, over time, the defensive adjustments that we
have seen, like it's that cat and mouse game with
offense and defense one.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
Hundred percent, But there's nothing that I have seen like
loading up because of the as you said, right, there's
guys that are inside the three point line and there
are ways to abuse the old illegal defense rules, but
also there's ways that guys try to get away with
the defensive three now and when there's a guy around
the rim back then you can basically because I've seen
(38:14):
guys sag off and not be an arm's length.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
They abuse that thing all the time. And that's when
I didn't even.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
Know about this when I first started watching classic games
as a kid, because they would still be just sitting
there and they would be I don't know, maybe a
little further than arm's length, and you wouldn't even notice
it because the spacing, you know, the natural spacing back
then was nothing, so it still felt pretty crowded unless
you try to hear the rules by putting a center
at the top of the key like I saw sometimes
(38:39):
they did.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
You see stuff though back then, like the first play
at the ninety one finals I believe involves a technical
foul on them. Try to play zone defense and leveraging
the defense. It's just they definitely took advantage of that rule.
Like you look at Jordan in the game one game
winner over Byron Russell. That's not happening today. He's not
getting of one on one with Byron Russell on him
(39:02):
like that to take that shot. They are going to
get the ball out of his hands. It's not going
to be as easy as didn't But didn't they play
Devil's Advocate? Didn't they do that in Game five or
Game six? With Kerr was Steve Kerr, I know the
player talking about they doubled Demman. He was closer to
the basket at that point. He wasn't out on the
perimeter like that, which creates more of a zone. If
(39:25):
you if you're sagging off of him, then it's much
more obvious that you're just playing space. Like he was
closer to the basket. He was near the free throw line,
so there was a crowd. It would be harder to
call the foul there. Of the technical I.
Speaker 3 (39:36):
Would say as far as isolation, I think it was
easier for players to score in that regard, but Jordan
said so himself. But when you it's still even if
you if you bring the zone concert or load up
or whatever, thin can're essentially loading up off someone. They
still can get a good shot out of these possessions.
And Kobe Bryant, who I don't think is as good
(39:58):
as Jordan, but he's incredible, played again and he was
just fine. And Kawhi does it and he looks just
fine too. And when they let me load up though
on an arranged player, though like that means that doesn't
do anything really, unless I mean it takes away from
getting that layup, but they can still get to their
pull up easily.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
Look, the greatest players ever could thrive against any scheme,
against anything. I'm just saying in grades of difficulty, I
think the stuff you could do defensively now makes it
more difficult. When we're talking about the trade off with
hand checking, which still happens today. There's plenty of video
of it. I just think that is a crutch. Old
(40:35):
school guys used to say, what about the hood checking?
What about the bigs? Oh, the bigs who are going
to have to guard out on the perimeter all the
time now, Like, how is Dennis Robin getting twenty rebounds
where he has to guard on the perimeter?
Speaker 3 (40:46):
Now? Yeah, but Dennis, the coaches would like Dennis Robins
starch ability now, I Dennett.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Look, I think Dennis is an all time great defender
and one of the best ever on shack, and that
goes under the radar for whatever reason. But I don't
think he's the rebound king like we saw back then
because the game has changed that much, he's going to
be on the perimeter.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
Don't you agree that he's a better rebounder than anyone
in the league now? Though? Oh yeah, probably.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
He's just not going to be able to average eighteen
per game.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
But back then that's not happening. That's fair because he
has to I mean, yeah, it's a freak athlete.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
He's a freak athlete. Phil Jackson used to say, like
Dennis could run all day. Jordan wasn't the best athlete.
Pippen was the best athlete.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
It was Robert.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
I forgot what I was going to say too, but yeah,
I think that's something I do pay attention to a
lot is how you counter certain schemes that maybe you
couldn't get away with through the legal defense. But a
lot of if you go back a little further before
they started like abusing the rules, which is like what
the nineties probably, you see a lot of a lot
of counters that are still used today. Like one of
the big ones is the fronting the post and then
(41:49):
bringing somebody over from the weak side.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
Which you technically couldn't do back in the day.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
But I saw the Lakers were doing against Jokich last year,
right when they thought they had a scheme against in
the conference finals.
Speaker 3 (42:02):
But see I saw somebody do that to Kareem in
the seventies, and the way they counted. It was really awesome,
and it's funny because all they did was whoever that
was doubling off of the week's side guarding Kareem to
protect the entry pass was flash into the foul line,
so he would either have a mid range that high
low right. And it's funny because we did the same
with Petun fronting Embiid last year twenty twenty three season,
(42:25):
and they abused this with the high low. So my
point is that so many things have been countered and done.
I don't think there's anything that we have never seen,
is my point. I think you have more ability to
do different things after the rules have been the legal
zone has been removed, But there's there's really nothing to
me that we haven't seen at any level at this point.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
Yeah, I guess my overall point is just I think
we've gotten to a point.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
It's the same thing with mixed martial arts.
Speaker 1 (42:48):
There was this time where it was a karate guy
versus a wrestler versus a boxer, and you had all
these different disciplines and then there was this amalgamation which
turned into MM where you had to be good at everything.
I feel like basketball has gone that way. Overall, you
can point to Derek Jones Junior. There are still specialist
(43:08):
guys out there, but overall, especially just in the last
ten years, your flaws get picked on more than ever.
You have to try to be great at everything. Otherwise,
positionless league is overblown. Two. It's just more positionless than
it ever has been. And I think the reason for
that is because guys are required to do more well.
Speaker 3 (43:29):
I also think Mike D'Antoni and those guys opened up
Pandora's box a little bit with having a four that
can shoot and only having one big because now the
spacing changed everything, you know what I mean that now
is commonplace. You don't want to have a second big
out there. Back in the day, the power forwards, I
mean a lot of them had good mid range games.
(43:49):
You know, look no further than Elton brand He was awesome.
But like I'll give you an example, right, Like, I
think Elton Brandon and Pau Gasol are much better basketball
players than to Buy Harris. But Tobias Harris will with
James harden embid combo will make it easier to score
with the spacing and they'll take that big forward at
the four. But it's and that's to me, what's changed
(44:11):
everything is that spacing with having a stretch four and
really playing bigger threes at the four because guys that
were coming into the league as small forwards or power forwards.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
Now some of the time when people I think Elton
brand probably doesn't fall into this category app and looked
at the numbers. But when guys think of a mid
range killer, some would bring up Carmelo Anthony because he
had that little dribble pull up baseline and people said
it was automatic. But then you look at the numbers,
it's like he shot forty one percent there. Why would
(44:42):
you do that as opposed to taking more threes Because
shooting thirty three percent from three is the equivalent of
fifty percent from two. That to me is the math
that unlocked everything. That's where people said, Okay, why are
we taking these lower percentage shots when we can easily
score more points per present. Even if you're a bad
thirty three percent three point shooter, it has three percent
(45:04):
below league average, that's still the equivalent of shooting fifty
percent from two thirty three point three percent. It's it's
crazy to me, and I love the mid range, and
it's like, but it's for very select few guys. You
have to be an absolute killer like Kawhi, who I
think is somewhere at forty seven percent in his career
from ten to sixteen feet out or whatever it is.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
You have to be that elite.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
You have to be in mid range god to really
justify still taking that shot.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
Now, do I think that shot still wins? Hell?
Speaker 1 (45:35):
Yeah, because in the playoffs, and Kawhi has mentioned this before,
they're giving you that space some of the time. Even
though they know Kawhi Leonard is good in that area,
teams are so accustomed to not guarding it. He can
even get away with it sometimes and get a little
bit more space. So do I think more guys should
practice it.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
I do. I think they should try to bring it back.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
It's just you better be damn good at it, not
just oh it's esthetically pleasing like Camarlo Anthony, but the
numbers don't line up.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (46:05):
Yeah, I think the only thing in terms of role
players shooting it is sometimes and it supplies to Terrence
as well, when they get run off the three point
line and there's a big rim protector sitting down there,
you have that midrange pull up and you should just
take it to keep the defense honest, because then you're
just sacrificing a good possession and an advantage that your
team created. In my eyes, that really gets me mad
when guys will get it attack and close out and
(46:25):
not shoot the midrange because the analytics says that that's
not a great shot for them, but then they end
up getting a twenty four second violation or a contested
three out of the possession.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
It's like that drives me insane.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
But anyway, No, and a player like that, or like
a mere Coffee who seems to be very dangerous with
that little turnaround curl fade away he has from about
ten feet out, we don't have enough of a sample
yet to even know who they can be in that
area if they're effective there. Okay, a couple more quick
ones before we let you go, Darin. What's the wildest,
(46:55):
most unhinged interview you ever did outside of crypto after
a basketball.
Speaker 3 (47:00):
Easily That guy that was hammered after the Pacers game
and was like, was it the pay game of the
Laker game?
Speaker 2 (47:07):
I think it was.
Speaker 3 (47:09):
It was one of those two and he was just
like he was slurring his words and he was like
I know the people that follow my channel know what
I'm talking about. He was like, Clippers number one, Clippers
number one, and he just kept saying that, Kawhi Leonard
number one.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
He just kept saying number one over and over again
and was not leaving.
Speaker 3 (47:26):
I was doing my own little like closing, you know,
because the end of my each vlog is my postgame thoughts,
and he just came in and bombarded it.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
I thought that was hilarious.
Speaker 1 (47:35):
How many games do you plan on going to next
season and into it dome?
Speaker 2 (47:40):
I would say hopefully at least half like twenty.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
Okay, okay, I mentioned on your show what I'm most
excited about. You can't go with that, even though it's
two much of an obvious answer.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
I'm sure you're excited about that too. We'll tease it.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
But what just gets you up in the morning when
you think about it into a dome and thinking, this
is it, this is it, finally here.
Speaker 3 (48:01):
You know, I've always been a stable Center lover. It's
just been my home. It's where I grew love watching
professional sports, and I never I'm very resistant to change,
so I was when I heard first heard about the
Clippers making an arena I was not too hyped about it.
Speaker 2 (48:18):
I was like, do we really need one?
Speaker 3 (48:20):
But then the last couple of years, I've started to
grow annoyed with how big Stable Center is and how
the sound travels, and how it literally feels like the
upper level are in a different stadium than we are,
and I'm tired of that. And when I go to
TD Guarden when I was in college and I went there,
it did not feel that way because the upper level
is not as far as separated from the lower bowl
(48:40):
because there's not three levels of sweets. So when I
go to the Into It Dome and I see that
that was a particular concept for Steve Bomber to focus on,
to have everybody in close proximity to one another one another,
and you see the steepness of the wall. I mean,
it's just like Grant said when he came on, by
the way, shout out to him. He's a rising star
in the media space in an LA sports scene as well,
(49:03):
and he said it best when he came on your show.
He said, it's an intimate experience, and that's the point.
It's supposed to be smaller than Staples Center. So I'd
say the fact that the upper level and the lower
level are not separated by anything, and that we're all
right on top of each other. That is what I'm
most excited about. The noise the same fan base. You
throw the same exact fan base into a new arena
(49:24):
to see what the difference really is with the arena
because it's the same fans. I've never experienced anything like
that in my life because the Rams came from Saint Louis,
so I'd never had a history with them.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
So this is going to be amazing. I can't wait.
Speaker 1 (49:38):
He is Darien Visiri. His mom calls him to Darien.
I'm gonna call him Darien. Some call him dime Dropper.
He's the host of lock Dollan. He's been doing great
work the last couple of years. Took the baton from
Chuck Mockler and Will Updyke, who I do a podcast with.
Speaker 2 (49:53):
Called Clips and Dip.
Speaker 1 (49:54):
Now, and you have been doing big work, tough work,
been on the grinds, but I think everybody appreciates it,
and I think you feel that appreciation and will it
into a dome now when you meet up with fans
who have watched you and your shows over the years,
dar and it is a pleasure to have you on
here on Clippers Talk. I appreciate the little home and
(50:16):
home we did. Part one is at locked on Clippers.
This is Clippers Talk, Darren. Thanks for doing this. Oh thanks, Adam.
I appreciate it and I look forward to seeing you
at the end of a dome.
Speaker 2 (50:26):
Let's go.
Speaker 1 (50:27):
Before we get out of here, I want to remind
you last couple of episodes, Jamal, Christopher and your grive
coming up.
Speaker 2 (50:34):
I think we're gonna have Genie's Alaska on at some point.
Speaker 1 (50:37):
I got a lot of good guests, a lot of
irons in the fire for you guys. If you like
this one, hit the subscribe button and let Darian know
you came and saw him here and appreciate him like
I do.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
For Darren VIZI.
Speaker 1 (50:51):
I'm at a modsl and this has been another episode
of Clippers Talk.
Speaker 2 (50:54):
Talk to you next time.
Welcome to Clippers Talk for part two of this conversation
with Darian Vissiri aka dime Dropper. I'm Adam Mosland. This
is Clippers Talk. It's been a podcast for a long time.
Two weeks ago I said I need to get with
the times and start a YouTube channel. You can find
that at Clippers Talk. Now find me. I follow Adam a.
This is part two. If you missed part one that
(00:26):
was on Lockdown Clippers where Dime Dropper was hosting and
peppering me with questions. Now the tables have turned a
little bit, I want to go a little bit deeper
with one of your favorite Clippers hosts and fans out there.
He really is a masked hell of a following through
his passion for this team going into his twentieth season.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
I believe Darian.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Thanks for doing this, oh man, Adam, this is I'm
just honored to be a part of this amazing cast
of guests you've had on recently Clipper media, Clipper fans.
I mean I actually last couple of days because I've
been behind. I have no time to watch shows anymore.
I've taken podcast p out of the rotation.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yeah, I hit the eject on that too.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Yeah, and so I literally binged every episode that you
made Rob, Matt Moore, Kelly, Jamal, I was like halfway
through Andrews.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
But I've listened to every single one.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
I apologies if I'm forgetting any guests that we're featured on.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Brian. Of course it was. It's been amazing, So I'm
not worthy. I'm not worthy. Bless you credit to you.
It's been awesome. All right. Well, I'm trying to keep
the content coming.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
We've had three shows so far this week, including Jamal,
Christopher yesterday, Andrew Greif as you mentioned before that, and
now we have our dime.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
I forgot Joseph. I'm sorry, Joseph. Joseph miss on Twitter.
We do miss Joseph, but I got news for you.
Ain't coming back anytime soon.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
I wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
I may have hurt the cause after that doing that
episode with him. I brought up too many bad memories
from Clippers game with Joseph. He's got a love hate
relationship with the team, but I do think he's excited
about this season and more optimistic than most. I want
to get down to your basketball corps a little bit
here and the foundation that you've kind of built your
(02:15):
principles off of you always talk about Darien basketball convictions.
Who are the players that helped form those convictions over time?
Give me some of those guys and the type of
ball that you look for.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Wow, I mean, I think that's a great question.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
I haven't actually been asked that on a show before,
but I think any kid that grew up in Los
Angeles during my time, like Kobe Bryant, was the example
of greatness.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Like he the whole Mama.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Mentality is one thing, and people kind of, you know,
twist that so many different ways. But just how hard
he seemed to take, how seriously he seemed to take
every single game that he played in at least pre Achilles.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Of course after that it was totally different.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
But it felt like every game mattered so much and
that winning was ultimately what meant the most. And you know,
getting better by any means. I think that's something. Whenever
I hit a wall in school or anything growing up,
I always thought, well, Kobe always said, if you just
work as hard as you can at something, you can
be better at it, And so I always felt as though,
even if I hit a wall, I'm just gonna be
(03:20):
the best version of myself that I can be and
try to be better at whatever that particular thing is.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
So I would say Kobe would be number one.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
And then when we got CP three, I think, also
in the negative sense, I took a lot of his characteristics.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
I mean, whining a lot.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
I didn't bring the foulbating to the court, though I
never was great at drawing fouls.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
On the court. Man, you got to get that rip through,
move go and come on.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
I know, but CP three, in terms of like watching
what he did on the court and his handle, that
was something that really inspired me. But I'm a big
we're talking basketball convictions. I like guys then moved the
ball quickly, you know that, don't spend too much time
on the ball. Guys like Larry Bird, Jokic Magic. I know,
(04:01):
Magic is interesting because he does have the ball a lot.
But the way he just kind of throws it up
and pushes it quickly. I love watching that, and I'm
trying to think of more modern examples. But somebody who
actually and I know he's a kind of an enemy
of us, I actually do love the way Devin Booker plays.
And I think you saw so many ways how he
can be effective with any sort of players with Team USA,
and also Steph Curry, like I am a big proponent
(04:22):
of the Warriors offense. Like ball movement and player movement
is always my style. So I would say those are
my basketball convictions. And then a defense defense first mindset
to team building, which as we talked about on Lockdown
Clippers is but like we're looking at for this upcoming
Clippers team. And I also love guys that can play
in the mid post and score from three levels, so
like Kawhi leonard Is. I love watching him play, you know, Kobe, Kawhi,
(04:46):
guys Michael Jordan even and when Lebron in his later years,
I want to say, like twenty twelve onwards, when he
really got a little bit more of a back to
basket game after working with a team, like in twenty
eighteen when he was hitting those crazy t rounds over
against the Raptors, Like I like when.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Lebron leans into that.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
So guys that can you know, score from three levels
but mid post, have a mid range game.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
I love that kind of stuff. So I'd say that and.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Then moving the ball quickly, so that those are my
basketball convictions. You mentioned Kawhi there, what does it feel
like to me?
Speaker 2 (05:17):
I could be wrong.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
You can clarify, but you haven't fully embraced Kawhi Leonard
as a Clipper.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
I'm glad you asked.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
So.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
When we got Kawhi on July fifth, twenty nineteen, I
was literally the happiest person on the planet. Like I remember,
I was working at my summer camp that I've been
I went to for fifteen years, and one of the
employees that was just like a little like uptight, like
you know. It was one day he would be in
the happiest mood ever, and then the other days he
would be just completely a crazy person, just so mean.
(05:51):
And I remember one time he said, why do you
keep freaking smiling, dude, Kawhi this, Kawhi that. And I'm
like the fact that someone's telling me that I'm being
I look too happy, That's a great problem to have.
So I was ecstatic that whole year. That was my
senior year in college. I was talking so much, Adham.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
You wouldn't even believe it.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Like I was like, we got Kawhi, we got the
best player in the league. He chose the Clippers. I
was like on the Kawhi bandwagon, Like no other.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Was that the first year with the dime Dropper YouTube.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
No, that was my senior of college that got taken
from by COVID got cut short. And the bubble is
right right before the bubble is when I started Dime Dropper.
But my first episode of Dime Dropper was why I
didn't want this season to resume, because I was in
this weird like I was in a weird situation and
I think a lot of other Clipper fans may have
felt this way too. And I felt as though we
(06:40):
were definitely going to make the conference finals. I was overconfident,
and I was like, I've been waiting for us to
make it past.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
The second round for so long.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
I did not wait all this time to potentially see
us maybe even win our first ring across the world,
across the country. I mean, and I know that sounds
really like spoiled, but I'm sorry, but we have a
dream as kids, as fans, and I wanted to be
here at home, like I don't want it to be
in Orlando with no fans, Like I'm sorry, I'm really sorry,
but that's how it is. But weirdly, I just couldn't
(07:08):
see the Lakers win because I knew I had to
hear it. So I was kind of in this situation
where I was struggling to even get behind the concept
of the bubble and I was dragged in I was
doing content on it, and I just felt as though
Kawhi and Paul George just went out a little two week.
You know, we talked about Paul George not emptying the
clip against Dallas. Kawhi Leonard shot like almost was it
(07:31):
was it thirty shots almost against Philly in Game seven
and twenty nineteen, and just he didn't even shoot I
think twenty in Game seven against Denver. I just wanted
him to go out swinging and I just didn't feel
like he did that, and so I was really really
pissed after that. But then he did kind of win
me over the following year with the amazing performance in
twenty twenty one against Dallas. But I will say Paul
(07:54):
George won me over even more because the moment that
we had with him was so big, like, and I
was there for it, and I was at every single
one of those playoff games. But you know, we referenced
this night a lot, and as much as it's the
Terrence Man game.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Paul Druge was the face.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
He was the guy that was gonna get blamed had
we lost, and he deserves more credit to me than
he gets from his for his performance in Game six.
The dude played like forty six minutes and like rebounded
guarded one through five, had twenty plus points, and grew.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
As the game went on. He didn't shy away as
the game went on. So that was those Terrence Man shots.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Those wide open threes don't happen without Paul George and
the gravity he had.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Right.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
So my closing thing with Kauwhi is I was still
super behind it in twenty twenty three, and then these
last two years it's just been like, and it's not
really necessarily any fault of Kawhi's, but it's five years
in and I had season tickets last year and I
saw some incredible regular season Kawhi. But my first thought
when we got Kawhi in twenty nineteen was I can't
(08:56):
wait for sold out Clipper playoff games like we had
with Lob City, but with this killer champion on our side.
And I've still never gotten to experience this, So it's
not and it's hard for me to get myself excited
for another season of the Kawhi experience. I also feel
as though when he's not playing, you don't really get
(09:17):
the benefits of like like, for example, Blake Griffin and
Chris Paul and even Paul George, they were such huge
ambassadors of the team. I think they did a great job,
you know, voicing about how passionate they were playing for
the Clippers and this and that, And Kawhi is just
not really that kind of guy. He's more behind the scenes.
He treats it more like a nine to five, And
I just don't know if the passion for the organization
(09:38):
is there. I don't know if he has that pass
for any organization. And I'm a very big guy into
the emotions of fandom and stuff like that and playing
to the crowd, and he's very business oriented. But I
wouldn't have this problem if he was healthy. It's just like,
I just don't see like how this has been a
very fun experience. So it's nothing against Kawhi, but that's
just how I see it. I don't see like this
(09:59):
has been a great experience.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
It's been frustrating for Clipper Nation.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
I think overall the last five years, she just had
so much hope, and unfortunately Kawhi's body has betrayed him.
What is you brought up twenty twenty in the bubble?
What's the most disappointed you've been with a Clipper team
or a Clipper player? What was the instance of that?
Definitely twenty twenty. Paul George, I would say, is number one.
(10:26):
But you know what, Adam, I really was mad at.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Kawhi because I knew Paul George was suspect in the playoffs,
because I watched OKAC for two years. I didn't miss
a playoff game, and everyone this was really.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Getting be mad at him when he came to the Clippers.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Everyone was looking at the regular season that Paul had
and was telling me about the shoulder injuries and that's
why he didn't have a great series. By the way,
he still had some good numbers in that Portland series.
But I watched the games and the same exact stuff
we criticized him for with the Clippers, the timely turnovers,
the looking great one game and then the next just
looking totally different. That happened in that series, that happened
(11:02):
against Utah two, and so I was suspect on Paul.
So my point is when it got even though he
was injured on acknowledging that when a guy shows me
the same things when he's injured as when he's healthy,
I think it's more about the player and less about
the injury. And Paul George repeated those very things as
a Clipper, So I did expect a potential meltdown from
(11:23):
him Kawhi. That was like the only real big blemish
of Kawhi's postseason career if we're really talking about and.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
It was really Game seven, Yeah, I think no good
in that series.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Overall. He was great against Dallas.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
The reason they were off three to one was because
of Kawhi and those collapses. By the way, I think
he still ended up being a plus in the series.
Like it was the Mantrez Harrald minutes instead of a
beast to Zoobots. It was some stuff from Doc that was.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
That was a bit of a head scratcher, it was,
But ultimately, you know, we asked our stars to close
and I don't think in Game six, second half and
Game seven seven was because like he was the one
guy I love too that you're different than everyone else.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
You are the champion. You're the reason why I've been
puffing my chest out all year.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
I just felt very let down. But the thing is,
as I said, I forgave him for that. You know,
I got over it. It's not like I don't think
he tried, but it did feel like a lack of
desperation in the way that he played that night, and
I think that whole roster like didn't even want to
be there. And the way they talk about it after
is like, I don't like hearing about this. The twenty
twenty and we would have won the season then shut
(12:29):
down and like just we had a golden opportunity, Adam,
we had double digit leads in three straight games against
the team we had more experience then.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
But I'm actually very thankful for that collapse.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
It did a lot in terms of us getting rid
of Glenn Rivers and now bringing in ty Lou.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
It made twenty twenty one that much more special.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
And to have that moment where we got out of
the second round in front of the fans, I wouldn't
trade that for the world. So I'm so thankful. And
it also kind of was the start of me building
a platform. So I actually think I think the bat
Well got to the bubble collapse because It made next
year that much sweeter. And you know, we get stronger
with this kind of pain. Atom we really do with
(13:06):
the Clipper fans are the most loyal fans in the world, man,
and I just want to make people see that.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
I don't know if I can go as far as
I'm glad they collapsed of the bubble, but I will
say this, I know damn well that if the Clippers
one championship had come during the most unique setting ever
in NBA history, no outside fans would give them credit
if people and people don't still give the they don't
give the Lakers credit, who already had sixteen rings. They
(13:35):
weren't given the Clippers their respect, they would have had
to have won in twenty twenty one as well. What's
the most proud you've ever been of the Clippers in
a player that game? Terrence Man.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
I mean, you know, Terrence Man is from Lowell, Massachusetts,
and it is around my age. So I actually heard
about Terrence from from my you know friends at UMAs
that oh does this guy. He's from low He's one
of the better players in the state. He might might
go to the NBA before we even drafted him. So
when we got him. I was rooting for him a lot,
and the fact that that happened and the biggest game possible, Like,
(14:12):
I'm forever indebted to him and a lot of the
members of that team. And that's why so many Clipper
fans are going to stick by Terrence forever. And when
we talk about like that ambassador and pride for the franchise,
Terrence Man is like the first to do any public
event for the Clippers, it seems, and he's just such
a great ambassador for the team. And the one reason
why Clipper fans don't ever get too mad at him
is because you just know he's gonna give a hundred
(14:34):
percent all the time, and that's all you can ask
for from as a fan.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
And he's been putting really tough positions and has had
to play so many different roles. He's never complained about it.
Is he your favorite Clipper current Clipper? And if so,
who's second?
Speaker 3 (14:48):
I'd say he's my favorite current Clipper, And then I'd
say my second favorite is probably it's either Zoo or Baton,
because Zoo is our longest what's up.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
You got to pick hot Seed, I'm going to go
with Nico. I'm gonna go with Nico.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
I just love the guy because I liked him in Portland,
and so the fact that we got him, I was like,
just like we talked about in lock Downald, we got him.
We're like, uh, this is the guy from Charlotte that
was overpaid. He's washed now, but he's proven to everybody
over the last couple of years he's far from washed.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Yeah. Five years later, he's four years later, he's still playing.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Well.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
All right, I got some tough ones here.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
I I want to ask you about this because I
saw your comment on X regarding the back to back
excuse the Clippers schedule excuse which was just released recently.
You don't like making any excuses. You're no nonsense type
of guy. Explain your position regarding you know where you
(15:49):
stand on Clipper Nation sometimes and people like me being
irked and vexed and annoyed with the schedule, especially in
a year where they're opening their own arena and they
still have sixteen back to backs and the second toughest
strength to schedule.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Okay, Well, I do want to acknowledge that I don't
think the Clippers get proper respect, and they never really
have by the league. I remember back in the dog
days and like oh eight and oh nine. I used
to watch teams with my Laker fan uncle, and he
would root for us.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
We were so bad. He just wanted us to get
the eight seed, to have to have.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
LA have two teams in the playoffs, to have you know,
his nephew have some joy. So he would root for us,
And I remember him saying, like, the Clippers get no
respect from officials, Like, so that's that's the thing to me.
It seems like we've never been the beneficiary of big
calls in playoff games, like I can't think of one.
We're always you know, the campaign steal that we should
(16:43):
have had in Game four twenty fourteen, Game five against OKC,
like and in those collapses, the three to one chokes
in Game six against Houston and in the bubble, we
never got a bailout call, like it feels like we
never get a bailout call, Like it's just a bad
call that goes our way for once, doesn't happen. And
so I do feel as though that the league can
(17:05):
be nicer to us, But just like Jamal said on
your last episode, it's something that we just can't control.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
There's eleven I'm sorry there's ten.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Of But how many things do we talk about on
these shows that we have no control over?
Speaker 3 (17:18):
Well, okay, well I'm gonna say this. The team can
control their performance. We can't control it. But they can
control their performance. They can't control the schedule makers making decisions.
And plus, what do we complaining about more back to
backs or matten A games? We got no Madden A
games zero, which I don't think is normal. That's not
I don't even know if that's a good thing.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
How many teams with their own arena have a ton
of Mattine games Like that is? I think it's built in.
You build an arena, you shouldn't have any matin A games.
I can't give much credit to the NBA for that
one zero though. We don't even have one or two.
In the playoffs. We might have a twelve thirty game
on a Sunday.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
It happens. Yeah, that's true, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (17:56):
So we have none, And you don't think the back
to backs, though, are legitimate complains?
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Sixteen back to backs if.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Ten other teams didn't have them, like they have to
choose someone, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Like so many of those teams have their own arena,
the Lakers only have thirteen.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
I'll always sit in I see what you're saying, because
they share with the hockey team. The Lakers pay rent.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
The Clippers have their own arena, and they still have
three more back to backs than the Lakers.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
How many Madden A games the Lakers have.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
I feel as that we would have found a way
to complain somehow, Like it's just I think I do
really think that a lot of Clipper fans, like I
think we are the victims of bad luck injuries mainly
throughout the course of our history.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
But I think sometimes we just look for things to
complain about.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
And I think that's funny coming from me, because a
lot of people think I'm some huge complainer, But I
just expressed frustration when things are bad in a very
loudmouthed way, in a very passionate way. But I really
think we guys got to suck it up and play,
you know, Phoenix Game one, and we go from there.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
It's just when I look at teams records on the
second night of a back to back in the NBA,
good team and there are at like five hundred on
the second night of a back to back. You can't
tell me that stuff doesn't have an influence, a big
influence on performance. It's easy to say, I just suck
it up and play. It's another where you just don't
have enough left in the tank.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
It happens. True, they're human, but yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
I think when Jerry West, the late great Jerry West,
when he would speak up about the reasons they need
to get their own arena partially because of the schedule
and them getting the short end of the stick, has
there ever been a bigger no excuses, no nonsense guy
than Jerry West, And he would comments on this like
it has to be somewhat real and legitimate.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Okay, So I mean, should we look at the teams
that have the sixteen back to backs and see which
ones have their own arena? Because there are there are
probably some of them that do. I mean they had
to choose someone. I think it's a bigger issue because
our best player probably won't play them.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
I think that's the bigger concern.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Yeah, it is, and the league can't account for that.
That's not on them in that way. I get where
you're coming from. Speaking to old school. Anthony Edwards had
a comment recently talking about how outside of Michael Jordan,
I'm paraphrasing, the league wasn't very skilled back then it
(20:23):
was Jordan, and he didn't say plumbers. But we know
the argument that's been going around since my old friend
Barry mccachinnor made it probably a damn decade ago, and
then JJ Reddick and these guys stole the terminology applied
it to their own podcasts and espen and there is
this schism between the old school and the new school.
(20:43):
You're a guy that has gone all the way back
as far as you can with the tape, and you're
going through eras and studying the game over spans of
decades and seeing how it was played. Do you think
there's any legitimacy to what Anthony Edwards said or is
he completely out of his mind?
Speaker 3 (21:03):
I think Ant spoke up about his lack of interest
in watching basketball when he first began his career. He
literally came out and said, I don't love watching basketball
more of a football guy. He's like, the reps are
solved or the calls are saw. He's like, I don't
even like watching it. So given that and that he's
younger than me, which is crazy to believe he's like
an absolute freaking age here, but he is. No, I
(21:24):
don't think there's much validity to it because I didn't
even get to watch the nineties. I didn't even get
to watch Jordan. But obviously, as you said, like I
put in a lot of work. But you know, for me,
it started with no, there's to me, there's no validity.
I mean, there's a lot of skill players in NBA history.
I think the thing about skill and the way we
use that word is it's become just about shooting and
ball handling.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
And I think there are other skills in the game personally.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
Uh, And I think flashy doesn't always equal better. I
think that's one thing that we mistake a lot of
is that flash doesn't always equal better. And you know
what's a great example of this comparison at him is
Kawhi Leonard versus Paul George. If you put on a
Paul George highlight real to someone and you show it
to them and then you show Kawhi, is gonna be like, yeah,
this Paul George guy, he's something else.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
He's an alien. But when you watch games.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
The simplicity of Kawhi's game is fundamentals.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
They're so sharp.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
He keeps it simple, he has go to moves, doesn't
overcomplicate anything. And I think Kawhi is actually a great
example of somebody with a little bit more of an
old school feel, even though he's a great three point shooter,
but he's got the mid post game and stuff like
that where he really looks for the mid range and
stuff like that. As far as me starting the history
of the game, I just got annoyed with the back
(22:35):
and forth that you're talking about. I grew up from
an Iranian culture that's like really respectful to elders.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
That's just like a major thing.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
So I'm not of the business of just discrediting older
people because their opinions might be outdated or because they're
older and whatnot. And I don't accuse people of just
not getting with the times. I want to see their
perspective of them seeing more than me in life. But
I will say I start out by being curious as
a kid, Like getting into the game in No. Six,
I was really curious about what happened before me because
there was so much great basketball before me, and so
(23:07):
I bought like DVDs like those Hardwood Classic DVDs off Amazon,
Sir Charles Came, the Dream, the Magic.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
One, The Jordan Won, the Larry Ones.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
I would always watch and study and watch the old
games on ESPN Classic and then Hardwood Classics. But then
after a while I was like, Okay, I kind of
have an understanding of like what these guys were.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Like.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
I understand that Kevin McKell had insane postgame. I understand
that Tim Hardaway's between the legs crossover was you know,
crazy and all that stuff. But then the last Dance
and me getting on social media changed everything for me
because I went on Twitter and I saw and I'm
not even you know me, I don't like the Utah Jazz, Like,
that's not a team that I like, that's my least
(23:45):
favorite team like in NBA history. I don't like John
Stockton and I don't like Crome alone, but I acknowledge
their talent. And I saw somebody saying like and this
was like before Chris Paul's Phoenix tenure. They were like,
he's way better than Stockton. There's no debate, nothing, And
I was like and they were like, yes, Stuck is
not even good. He just passed him alone and got
assists all the time through that, and I was like, okay,
(24:06):
Like I've never heard such disrespect, Like, yeah, there's probably
a lot of assists that John Stockton got to carom alone,
and there is the whole home scorekeepers thing, but you
don't just get fifteen thousand assists for past poaching to
one guy. Like That's when I was like, what is
going on here? Like is this how people talk about
(24:26):
the past now? So I was moved by the last
dance because it just caused so much debate, and I realized, like,
have I ever really been chiming in on NBA history
without actually watching the full games? Because you know me,
I'm team full games. Kawhi Leonard said it himself, team
full Games. So there's no way I can judge these
guys without trying to put in the proper research, because like,
(24:48):
it's just impossible for me to speak about Jordan's career
the way I do Lebron's. I've been here for Lebron's,
I've seen his ups and downs, I've seen the talk
between each season. So then I was like, you know what,
as part of my channel, I'm going to start with
the first like person that people even put in the
goat conversation Bill Russell, and I'm just going to go
from there each year and watch every game that exists.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
It takes a long time.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
I've only because the NBA season stagnates my process massively.
But the amount of things I've learned now I'm on
nineteen seventy two, but the amount of things I've learned,
like it's crazy, Like it's really crazy, the stuff, the
way we talk about, and I think it all began
with older players discrediting the modern players, and I think
this is the clapback. But now it's become like Republican
(25:34):
and Democrat at this point, Like it's really insane, and
it all stems from Lebron and Jordan and I can't
stand that because I've been of the believer that there's
plenty of other guys you can have as the goat,
because I've really just been so moved by some of
these guys. So that's how I feel about that, I think,
and is just one of many people in this generation
that are in this world where we're constantly you know,
(25:55):
it's skipping Shannon on Twitter twenty four to seven.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Yeah, Spy versus by Red versus Blue all the time.
Everything's polarized. That's what gets the most attention. I like
to respect my elders, even if I do feel like
they're yelling at a cloud. Sometimes I wait to push
back if they criticize the current era and the modern
game and say these guys suck and there's no defense
(26:21):
being played anymore, and they make these broad generalizations, because
when I do go back and watch full games, I
used to be a disciple of nineties basketball because that's
what I grew up watching.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Most.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
When I go back and watch full games now, it
looks very different than how I remember it. And I think,
while Anthony Edwards is wrong in saying that there weren't
skilled guys outside of Michael Jordan back then, do I
also think there's more skilled guys than ever now?
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Hell yes, Hell yes.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
The stuff guys are doing now would only be dreamt
up back then. I think international is a great way
to inform yourself with the leaps and bounds the NBA
and the basketball game has.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Made where you go from.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
I think the Dream Team ended up playing seven or
nine guys that were in the league back then, and
then this year in the Olympics they had to go
through I think sixty one guys that were NBA players
on international teams, like the talent pool has grown tremendously,
partially because a great part of this is because of
(27:27):
Michael Jordan and the influence he had throughout the world.
A lot of these guys that have been MVPs recently
aren't even playing basketball if it's not for Michael Jordan,
you know, for the top five guys in the league
might be European now or international players. I think the
game's never been better. I also think there are times
where the three point shooting in the analytics have hurt
(27:50):
the game, even though I think it's what they're doing
overall is smart. They're playing the numbers, they're playing the analytics,
they're playing the math. Is it as pleasing to the eye,
it's varied of an attack.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Is it as entertaining? I don't know. I still think
at its best it is. It is.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
But there are times where you see, you know, there's
ninety three pointers taken in a game or something like that,
and it's extreme. But I try to save my criticism
for the past until it's warranted. Would they take shots
at guys today, That's kind of my stance on it.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
I don't know how you feel about that.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
Well, I'm you know, I'm part of the younger crowd,
so they're usually the ones taking shots. I am protective
of the history of the game because I just feel
that there are a lot of inaccuracies about it. I
never go and say that players aren't good and stuff
like that, or like I'm not a big time machine guy.
I don't like the you know, these guys couldn't play
(28:45):
in this time thing, unless it's like I'll give you
an example, like someone like Eric Dan Pierre. He was
a very specific player for his time. But I don't
think he's bad at basketball because I don't think he
fit today's game. Like, I don't think he's a bad
basketball player.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
He was.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
He was needed for post defense and rebounding in toughness
back then, but he's not a guy that would really
get many minutes today. His skill set isn't quite needed.
But I don't think he's a bad basketball player. And
it's stuff like that, like just just kind of contextualizing
the strategy of the game like back then, or even
when I say back then, I'm literally talking twelve years ago.
In prior you wanted a second big out there for rebounding,
(29:21):
Like it wasn't about getting back in transition, it was
about crashing the offensive glass and stuff like that, having
a second interior defender, So it was a totally different
different game. I think the one thing that really inspired
me about continuing to watch the old games is when
it was COVID and I'd been watching you know, the spacing,
the four out, one in and five out offenses for
(29:42):
a couple of years. And I even stopped taking mid
ranges when I played pickup, like it got that bad.
I stopped taking mid ranges. I was like three in layups,
like that's more efficient. And I went back and watched
and I was seeing some things that we just don't
see now, which doesn't necessarily mean it's better, but it
was just different. Like Charles Barkley, I was watching him
and yeah, he would back down guys for a long time,
(30:03):
but every single time down he was backing down the
guy at his position, like not on a switch or whatever,
at his position. I'm like, how does he have the
energy to do this? Like this is that was so
surprising to me. And some of the some of the
footwork and like like when I see Pat when I
was watching a dream Team game, like I saw Patrick
Ewan catch the ball and just like turn and face,
no dribble, just put up a mid range right over
(30:24):
the top of guy. And I was like that little stuff,
like the no dribbling and like the simplicity of it.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
I do enjoy some of that, and like, I'll even
go back.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
And watch a two thousands game and I remember seeing
it was I think it was the eight playoffs Cavs
and Celtics, and Rondo was getting like a high ball
screen and Ben Wallace came and just rocked him with
a hedge, and I was like, I can't remember the
last time I got out of my seat, and I
was like, that's a great hedging of a screen, or
that's a great screen.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Like those little things.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
The rebounding, Like there's no Reggie Evans today anymore, but
he's one of my most beloved clippers of all time.
I haven't seen a guy offensive rebound like that, And
to me, that's a gil the timing of it and
all that. But a guy like Reggie Evans is also
someone who wouldn't touch the court much today. But I
don't think he's like, you know, a bad basketball player,
so like, that's that's kind of my thing is.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
There's a lot of things that I appreciate.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
Yeah, I also think back in the day, like when
we're talking old old like sixties and seventies, they were
taught to dribble the ball a completely different way, which
is like the hand on top of the ball iverson
and all these guys changed the whole dynamic of how
you could dribble a basketball, so you literally could not
do the same things with the ball in your hands.
So it's limited to guards a lot, which obviously partially
(31:33):
partially why it was a big man's game, So you
have to just pass and move a lot more. And
like watching teams like the old Celtics of like the
Bill Russell days, when they get a rebound, it is
ball flying and players flying, and I love that. I
love these kind of things. So just little intricacies of
the game. But yeah, man, I think every era has
its beauty. And what you said, like the what do
(31:55):
you like watching more? That's totally to me in the
eyes of the beholder, Like to me, that's just subjective.
But there's more guys that can do stuff with the
ball nowt there's no doubt about it.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
It is subjective.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
But I would say for the people who are like, oh,
it was more physical back then, and then they show
the same ten plays of Detroit hitting Michael Jordan, It's
like you guys are recycling the same thing over and
over and they played far more times than just these
five games that you're showing here.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Well, let me ask you this. Let me ask you
this Devil's advocate.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
I agree with the with that stuff, that the clay
that they use are poor example, But what do you
feel about the NBA in the mid two thousands and
Jerry Colangelo and all them changing the rules to try
to help guards out in perimeter players out because that
all four finals that was like really hard to score,
Like the hand checking was super hard like and the
physicality off the ball, they're bumping.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Each other left and right.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
I mean, I'm not saying this doesn't exist now, but
just you know, there's levels to it.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
So like, I just you can see that stuff in
the playoffs today sometimes too, they let you get away
with so much more. Hand checking is completely subjective. It
is just like an offensive lineman holding in the NFL.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
How much are you willing to let them.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Get away with before you throw a flagger in this
case call a foul.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
It still goes on today all the time.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
And I have tape of Michael Jordan and guys trying
to d him up and them calling handshake and hand
checking in ninety four, at ninety five, and nostalgia heads
who just love to say, oh, it was better back
than in more physical, And I'm seeing all these touch
fouls on Michael Jordan NonStop.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
And then meanwhile.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
He's leveraging the rules because they couldn't play zone so
he can iso against Muggsy Bogues on the far side. Well,
everybody else is cleared out because you can't just guard space,
you have to hard double on a guy with the basketball.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
I think that stuff.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
I mean in the eighties, the reason Detroit stood out
so much is because they were the antithesis of how
everybody else was playing back then. They weren't all playing
that physical. Yes, there were fights, there was craziness. I
don't really attribute that to skill. But if you look
in the mid eighties, teams average one hundred and ten
points per game while taking three threes a game. They
weren't even utilizing a three point line, yet they were
(34:12):
still averaging the same amount of points as today. There
wasn't defense being played at all. They were rolling the
ball out there and running up and down the court.
I mean, even if you go back to Wilt Chamberlain
and Bill Russell, the dirty little secret about those stats
is they had thirty more possessions per game to accumulate stats,
and nobody wants to talk about it, or you're a
hater or a bad guy. I used to worship the
(34:33):
old school game, but I can't say that things haven't
evolved for the better because what's happened is to me,
the ultimate high I guess underscoring point or central point
of why the game's better today is because guys that
you mentioned, like Reggie Evans and guys who are specialists,
they're out of the league because this If you can't
do everything, if you can't shoot, you can't play anymore.
(34:56):
You have to be skilled at everything.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
We have.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
We have a guy who might start that's not that
skill at everything though, Derek Jones. He's really just an athlete.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
He still can shoot a three pointer.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
But how many guys are shooting thirty two to thirty
three percent. You find a lot of guys that were
shooting thirty three percent.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
It's still a unique thing, like there aren't that compared
to what there were back then. The reason it's gotten
so positionless is because your flaws get picked on more
than ever. In today's game, defenses are much more sophisticated.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
People say they don't play defense. It's like, dude, you
have to cover so much of the floor.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
It's so much different than back then when they're lining
up inside the three point line to set up their offense.
It's just I don't know. I think guys are better
than ever. I also think guys back then were great too.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
Well.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Which point do you want me to push back on first?
Speaker 3 (35:45):
Because we can go on and on, like I've done
this for five years, so I'm all, I can do
this all day.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
But let me just say this. Let's start with the
first one.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
I agree that there is hand checking that exists, and
when I see guys handcheck, it actually helps them massively,
even now, because it literally is a big dude putting
his hand and impeding your your progress driving the basketball.
But I agree that the playoffs are physical now and
you can still see those things, but I can't say
it's the same as four or prior In those playoff games.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
And secondly, I'm not saying this is the same, that's all.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
I'm just saying because in six exaggerated a bit.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
Oh see, that's what I don't like when people say
they make it seem like they're playing a totally different sport.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
I don't like that. I don't think that. That's why
I said I.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
Respect the grind it takes to make the NBA in
any era, So like, I'm never going to say that
somebody couldn't play in a certain era, unless, as I said,
it's one of those situations where like a Reggie Evans,
it's just his game just doesn't fit. But the like
in six man, do you remember how many thirty point
per game scores came out of nowhere?
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Like that was crazy?
Speaker 3 (36:47):
There was a clear emphasis And the amount of small
guards that have won MVP since they changed the rules
is telling. And and as you said, let's talk about
the zone thing that has also changed, entry passes of
the post and the isolation stuff.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
My thing is.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
People are always said, why doesn't MB just get it
on the block because the double comes so much sooner now,
Like it's not the same as it was back then,
but you.
Speaker 3 (37:12):
Can still catch well, as you say, as you always
see that we can still catch the ball.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
Get double team to make a read though, sure, but
they're not going to work.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
People want MB to play like Shaq sometimes, and it's like, Guys,
I don't know if Shaq would play the same way
in today's game. In fact, I think you would have
to keep his weight off and be Orlando Shack if
you're played in today's game, for sure.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
But if we're talking about this this rule change of
taking away zones, Shaq was part of the reason they
did this, and the first season after they still had
legal zones, he crushed them.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
So like for me, h, yeah, it is.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
But you know, over time, the defensive adjustments that we
have seen, like it's that cat and mouse game with
offense and defense one.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
Hundred percent, But there's nothing that I have seen like
loading up because of the as you said, right, there's
guys that are inside the three point line and there
are ways to abuse the old illegal defense rules, but
also there's ways that guys try to get away with
the defensive three now and when there's a guy around
the rim back then you can basically because I've seen
(38:14):
guys sag off and not be an arm's length.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
They abuse that thing all the time. And that's when
I didn't even.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
Know about this when I first started watching classic games
as a kid, because they would still be just sitting
there and they would be I don't know, maybe a
little further than arm's length, and you wouldn't even notice
it because the spacing, you know, the natural spacing back
then was nothing, so it still felt pretty crowded unless
you try to hear the rules by putting a center
at the top of the key like I saw sometimes
(38:39):
they did.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
You see stuff though back then, like the first play
at the ninety one finals I believe involves a technical
foul on them. Try to play zone defense and leveraging
the defense. It's just they definitely took advantage of that rule.
Like you look at Jordan in the game one game
winner over Byron Russell. That's not happening today. He's not
getting of one on one with Byron Russell on him
(39:02):
like that to take that shot. They are going to
get the ball out of his hands. It's not going
to be as easy as didn't But didn't they play
Devil's Advocate? Didn't they do that in Game five or
Game six? With Kerr was Steve Kerr, I know the
player talking about they doubled Demman. He was closer to
the basket at that point. He wasn't out on the
perimeter like that, which creates more of a zone. If
(39:25):
you if you're sagging off of him, then it's much
more obvious that you're just playing space. Like he was
closer to the basket. He was near the free throw line,
so there was a crowd. It would be harder to
call the foul there. Of the technical I.
Speaker 3 (39:36):
Would say as far as isolation, I think it was
easier for players to score in that regard, but Jordan
said so himself. But when you it's still even if
you if you bring the zone concert or load up
or whatever, thin can're essentially loading up off someone. They
still can get a good shot out of these possessions.
And Kobe Bryant, who I don't think is as good
(39:58):
as Jordan, but he's incredible, played again and he was
just fine. And Kawhi does it and he looks just
fine too. And when they let me load up though
on an arranged player, though like that means that doesn't
do anything really, unless I mean it takes away from
getting that layup, but they can still get to their
pull up easily.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
Look, the greatest players ever could thrive against any scheme,
against anything. I'm just saying in grades of difficulty, I
think the stuff you could do defensively now makes it
more difficult. When we're talking about the trade off with
hand checking, which still happens today. There's plenty of video
of it. I just think that is a crutch. Old
(40:35):
school guys used to say, what about the hood checking?
What about the bigs? Oh, the bigs who are going
to have to guard out on the perimeter all the
time now, Like, how is Dennis Robin getting twenty rebounds
where he has to guard on the perimeter?
Speaker 3 (40:46):
Now? Yeah, but Dennis, the coaches would like Dennis Robins
starch ability now, I Dennett.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Look, I think Dennis is an all time great defender
and one of the best ever on shack, and that
goes under the radar for whatever reason. But I don't
think he's the rebound king like we saw back then
because the game has changed that much, he's going to
be on the perimeter.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
Don't you agree that he's a better rebounder than anyone
in the league now? Though? Oh yeah, probably.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
He's just not going to be able to average eighteen
per game.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
But back then that's not happening. That's fair because he
has to I mean, yeah, it's a freak athlete.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
He's a freak athlete. Phil Jackson used to say, like
Dennis could run all day. Jordan wasn't the best athlete.
Pippen was the best athlete.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
It was Robert.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
I forgot what I was going to say too, but yeah,
I think that's something I do pay attention to a
lot is how you counter certain schemes that maybe you
couldn't get away with through the legal defense. But a
lot of if you go back a little further before
they started like abusing the rules, which is like what
the nineties probably, you see a lot of a lot
of counters that are still used today. Like one of
the big ones is the fronting the post and then
(41:49):
bringing somebody over from the weak side.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
Which you technically couldn't do back in the day.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
But I saw the Lakers were doing against Jokich last year,
right when they thought they had a scheme against in
the conference finals.
Speaker 3 (42:02):
But see I saw somebody do that to Kareem in
the seventies, and the way they counted. It was really awesome,
and it's funny because all they did was whoever that
was doubling off of the week's side guarding Kareem to
protect the entry pass was flash into the foul line,
so he would either have a mid range that high
low right. And it's funny because we did the same
with Petun fronting Embiid last year twenty twenty three season,
(42:25):
and they abused this with the high low. So my
point is that so many things have been countered and done.
I don't think there's anything that we have never seen,
is my point. I think you have more ability to
do different things after the rules have been the legal
zone has been removed, But there's there's really nothing to
me that we haven't seen at any level at this point.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
Yeah, I guess my overall point is just I think
we've gotten to a point.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
It's the same thing with mixed martial arts.
Speaker 1 (42:48):
There was this time where it was a karate guy
versus a wrestler versus a boxer, and you had all
these different disciplines and then there was this amalgamation which
turned into MM where you had to be good at everything.
I feel like basketball has gone that way. Overall, you
can point to Derek Jones Junior. There are still specialist
(43:08):
guys out there, but overall, especially just in the last
ten years, your flaws get picked on more than ever.
You have to try to be great at everything. Otherwise,
positionless league is overblown. Two. It's just more positionless than
it ever has been. And I think the reason for
that is because guys are required to do more well.
Speaker 3 (43:29):
I also think Mike D'Antoni and those guys opened up
Pandora's box a little bit with having a four that
can shoot and only having one big because now the
spacing changed everything, you know what I mean that now
is commonplace. You don't want to have a second big
out there. Back in the day, the power forwards, I
mean a lot of them had good mid range games.
(43:49):
You know, look no further than Elton brand He was awesome.
But like I'll give you an example, right, Like, I
think Elton Brandon and Pau Gasol are much better basketball
players than to Buy Harris. But Tobias Harris will with
James harden embid combo will make it easier to score
with the spacing and they'll take that big forward at
the four. But it's and that's to me, what's changed
(44:11):
everything is that spacing with having a stretch four and
really playing bigger threes at the four because guys that
were coming into the league as small forwards or power forwards.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
Now some of the time when people I think Elton
brand probably doesn't fall into this category app and looked
at the numbers. But when guys think of a mid
range killer, some would bring up Carmelo Anthony because he
had that little dribble pull up baseline and people said
it was automatic. But then you look at the numbers,
it's like he shot forty one percent there. Why would
(44:42):
you do that as opposed to taking more threes Because
shooting thirty three percent from three is the equivalent of
fifty percent from two. That to me is the math
that unlocked everything. That's where people said, Okay, why are
we taking these lower percentage shots when we can easily
score more points per present. Even if you're a bad
thirty three percent three point shooter, it has three percent
(45:04):
below league average, that's still the equivalent of shooting fifty
percent from two thirty three point three percent. It's it's
crazy to me, and I love the mid range, and
it's like, but it's for very select few guys. You
have to be an absolute killer like Kawhi, who I
think is somewhere at forty seven percent in his career
from ten to sixteen feet out or whatever it is.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
You have to be that elite.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
You have to be in mid range god to really
justify still taking that shot.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
Now, do I think that shot still wins? Hell?
Speaker 1 (45:35):
Yeah, because in the playoffs, and Kawhi has mentioned this before,
they're giving you that space some of the time. Even
though they know Kawhi Leonard is good in that area,
teams are so accustomed to not guarding it. He can
even get away with it sometimes and get a little
bit more space. So do I think more guys should
practice it.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
I do. I think they should try to bring it back.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
It's just you better be damn good at it, not
just oh it's esthetically pleasing like Camarlo Anthony, but the
numbers don't line up.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (46:05):
Yeah, I think the only thing in terms of role
players shooting it is sometimes and it supplies to Terrence
as well, when they get run off the three point
line and there's a big rim protector sitting down there,
you have that midrange pull up and you should just
take it to keep the defense honest, because then you're
just sacrificing a good possession and an advantage that your
team created. In my eyes, that really gets me mad
when guys will get it attack and close out and
(46:25):
not shoot the midrange because the analytics says that that's
not a great shot for them, but then they end
up getting a twenty four second violation or a contested
three out of the possession.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
It's like that drives me insane.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
But anyway, No, and a player like that, or like
a mere Coffee who seems to be very dangerous with
that little turnaround curl fade away he has from about
ten feet out, we don't have enough of a sample
yet to even know who they can be in that
area if they're effective there. Okay, a couple more quick
ones before we let you go, Darin. What's the wildest,
(46:55):
most unhinged interview you ever did outside of crypto after
a basketball.
Speaker 3 (47:00):
Easily That guy that was hammered after the Pacers game
and was like, was it the pay game of the
Laker game?
Speaker 2 (47:07):
I think it was.
Speaker 3 (47:09):
It was one of those two and he was just
like he was slurring his words and he was like
I know the people that follow my channel know what
I'm talking about. He was like, Clippers number one, Clippers
number one, and he just kept saying that, Kawhi Leonard
number one.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
He just kept saying number one over and over again
and was not leaving.
Speaker 3 (47:26):
I was doing my own little like closing, you know,
because the end of my each vlog is my postgame thoughts,
and he just came in and bombarded it.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
I thought that was hilarious.
Speaker 1 (47:35):
How many games do you plan on going to next
season and into it dome?
Speaker 2 (47:40):
I would say hopefully at least half like twenty.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
Okay, okay, I mentioned on your show what I'm most
excited about. You can't go with that, even though it's
two much of an obvious answer.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
I'm sure you're excited about that too. We'll tease it.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
But what just gets you up in the morning when
you think about it into a dome and thinking, this
is it, this is it, finally here.
Speaker 3 (48:01):
You know, I've always been a stable Center lover. It's
just been my home. It's where I grew love watching
professional sports, and I never I'm very resistant to change,
so I was when I heard first heard about the
Clippers making an arena I was not too hyped about it.
Speaker 2 (48:18):
I was like, do we really need one?
Speaker 3 (48:20):
But then the last couple of years, I've started to
grow annoyed with how big Stable Center is and how
the sound travels, and how it literally feels like the
upper level are in a different stadium than we are,
and I'm tired of that. And when I go to
TD Guarden when I was in college and I went there,
it did not feel that way because the upper level
is not as far as separated from the lower bowl
(48:40):
because there's not three levels of sweets. So when I
go to the Into It Dome and I see that
that was a particular concept for Steve Bomber to focus on,
to have everybody in close proximity to one another one another,
and you see the steepness of the wall. I mean,
it's just like Grant said when he came on, by
the way, shout out to him. He's a rising star
in the media space in an LA sports scene as well,
(49:03):
and he said it best when he came on your show.
He said, it's an intimate experience, and that's the point.
It's supposed to be smaller than Staples Center. So I'd
say the fact that the upper level and the lower
level are not separated by anything, and that we're all
right on top of each other. That is what I'm
most excited about. The noise the same fan base. You
throw the same exact fan base into a new arena
(49:24):
to see what the difference really is with the arena
because it's the same fans. I've never experienced anything like
that in my life because the Rams came from Saint Louis,
so I'd never had a history with them.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
So this is going to be amazing. I can't wait.
Speaker 1 (49:38):
He is Darien Visiri. His mom calls him to Darien.
I'm gonna call him Darien. Some call him dime Dropper.
He's the host of lock Dollan. He's been doing great
work the last couple of years. Took the baton from
Chuck Mockler and Will Updyke, who I do a podcast with.
Speaker 2 (49:53):
Called Clips and Dip.
Speaker 1 (49:54):
Now, and you have been doing big work, tough work,
been on the grinds, but I think everybody appreciates it,
and I think you feel that appreciation and will it
into a dome now when you meet up with fans
who have watched you and your shows over the years,
dar and it is a pleasure to have you on
here on Clippers Talk. I appreciate the little home and
(50:16):
home we did. Part one is at locked on Clippers.
This is Clippers Talk, Darren. Thanks for doing this. Oh thanks, Adam.
I appreciate it and I look forward to seeing you
at the end of a dome.
Speaker 2 (50:26):
Let's go.
Speaker 1 (50:27):
Before we get out of here, I want to remind
you last couple of episodes, Jamal, Christopher and your grive
coming up.
Speaker 2 (50:34):
I think we're gonna have Genie's Alaska on at some point.
Speaker 1 (50:37):
I got a lot of good guests, a lot of
irons in the fire for you guys. If you like
this one, hit the subscribe button and let Darian know
you came and saw him here and appreciate him like
I do.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
For Darren VIZI.
Speaker 1 (50:51):
I'm at a modsl and this has been another episode
of Clippers Talk.
Speaker 2 (50:54):
Talk to you next time.
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