June 10, 2023 • 29 mins
Ryan Gorman hosts an iHeartRadio nationwide special featuring Coach Bill Courtney from the Oscar-Winning Documentary UNDEFEATED & Host of the iHeartRadio Podcast An Army of Normal Folks. Coach Courtney discusses his work as an inner-city high school football coach, taking an underperforming team on and off the field and turning young athletes into winners and successful students. Coach Courtney also explains the movement he's created and the goal of his podcast, which aims to make small, positive changes at the ground level in communities nationwide. Paula Faris, Emmy-Award Winner of Good Morning America Weekend and The View & author of YOU DON'T HAVE TO CARRY IT ALL: Ditch the Mom Guilt & Find A Better Way Forward, also joins the show. Paula Faris discusses the challenges working moms face, along with tips and strategies to help navigate issues that come along with balancing a profession and family.
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(00:00):
Welcome to iHeartRadio Communities, a publicaffairs special focusing on the biggest issues impacting
you. This week, here's RyanGorman. Thanks so much for joining us
here on iHeartRadio Communities. I'm RyanGorman, and we have some important conversations
lined up for you. In justa bit, I'll talk to Emmy Award
winner Paula Faris about her brand newbook, which focuses on support for working
(00:23):
moms, So make sure to stickaround for that. Right now, to
get things started, I'm joined byCoach Bill Courtney from the Oscar winning documentary
Undefeated. He's host of the iHeartRadiopodcast An Army of Normal Folks, a
movement to help empower Americans to changeour country by each of us doing what
we can. Coach Courtney, thanksso much for coming on the show.
(00:44):
And I want to go back tothe beginning when you were running a business
in Memphis, Tennessee, and youbegan volunteering as a football coach at a
local inner city school. What wasit that drove you to become a coach
at Manassas High School. Well,thanks for having me, Ryan. First
of all, so when I graduatedfrom college, I was a football coach
(01:07):
and a teacher. That's what Idid for a living. My dad left
home when I was four. Mymom was married and divorced five times.
I grew up in a kind ofa broken environment. And the good men
in my life with my football coaches, and so when I graduated college,
that's really was my calling. Theproblem is, my wife's a dime and
(01:29):
I'm kind of ugly, and inthe South, in the South, when
you light into a slab, yougot to keep around. So I just
started having kids, and so wehad four kids in four years, and
I couldn't afford my family. SoI had to get out of coaching for
a living and started by business.Like you said, classic American Hardwoods.
But in state at Tennessee, youcan be what's called a certified non faculty
(01:51):
coach and you got to take allthese classes and stuff that allows you to
continue to coach at a high leveleven if you're not staff member the school.
And so I did. And whenI started my business, there was
a school called Manassas that was ahalf milethful where my company was. They
needed some help, and so honestly, what brought me to Manassas originally was
(02:15):
just they were near, they wereconvenient. When I got there, I
found seventeen kids on a football teamthat had won four games in ten years.
Their previous ten years record was fourwins and ninety five losses. And
we went to work coaching, andseven years later I had seventy five kids
(02:36):
on the team. We were eighteenwins and two losses and eight kids going
to college. And these goofy dudeswearing skinny jeans and scarves showed up from
LA and made a movie that Inever thought anybody would see. And a
year and a half later, I'mwalking down the red carpet at the Academy
Awards. Beyond just the obvious improvementsthe football program at Manassas High School,
(02:59):
when you started coaching there, youdidn't just have was it seventeen nineteen players,
You had a real situation in termsof their personal lives to deal with.
Talk a little bit about that,yeah, I mean it was clear
that we weren't going to be justcoaching football and concepts and three point stances
(03:23):
and routes and line play. Weneeded to coach character, commitment, integrity,
the value of hard work, theimportance showing up on time, basic
values, and tenants that lead toa meaningful life. And I mean,
any coach with they're sold will tellyou that most of everything you're learning on
(03:47):
a football field, the real valueto that is after the helmets and pads
are put up and you're too oldever played the game again, that those
things that you learned on a footballfield hopefully serve you well beyond the time
football's played into life. And itdid for me well, Evan Asses.
(04:11):
We had a lot of work todo in that regard, and so we
started coaching and teaching all that stuff. And it wasn't easy. I mean,
it was hard, and it washard for the kids. The kids
were hearing and being asked to subscribeto notions and ideas that were really not
relevant in their lives up to thatpoint. And it was a combat upon
(04:35):
us as coaches to not just browbeatthe kids with a bunch of stuff,
but to try to illustrate to themhow we employed those tenants in our own
lives for our own successes and illustrateto them if you do that, it
gives you a chance of success oflife. And so we were coaching football,
but we were also coaching life skills. And you were also potentially saving
(04:58):
lives because this was an neighborhood whereyoung men are three times more likely to
be dead or in jail than havea job or be in college. How
did you get them to buy inand what was that process like trying to
get them to the place where youwanted them to be. The greatest measure
of the success of a leaders theactions of the followers. If you show
(05:25):
me an organization or the followers andall the people involved in it are doing
really well, the organization successful,you've got good leadership. If you look
at an organization where the employees orthe players or whatever kind of running amuck
and not taking care of what they'resupposed to be taking care of, yeah
it's a problem with them, butI'll tell you it's a problem at the
(05:46):
top first. Because the greatest measureof the success of a leaders the actions
of followers. And halfway through myfirst season of a NASSIS, we were
three and three. Now, Ithink three and three is pretty average,
but when you're win four games inten years, you know that's not bad,
right, And so the whole teamwas yes or noser on the football
(06:10):
field as a result, and thatwas great, But half the team was
buying into the important stuff like we'retalking about, and while the other half
the team was yes or noser onthe football field, they weren't really buying
into all the character the commitments stuff. And the minute football was over,
they were back engaged in the samedestructive behavior that kind of got them to
(06:31):
four and ninety six in the firstplace. So I went to my guy
and I said, hey, man, what do I got to do to
get this half the team to buyinto the important stuff? Like you're half
the team? And he dismissively said, just off, coach, just keep
doing what you're doing and I mightknow. Man, we'll talk. Why
don't you talk to me about this? And he said, I don't want
to hurt your feelings. I said, you're not going to hurt my feelings.
(06:54):
What do I got to do toget that half the team to buy
into the important characteristics and that Iwant all of you to buy in.
They're good on the football, butthey're not buying any important stuff. And
he said, all right, we'regonna talk. Said yep. He said,
goats are trying to figure out ifyou're a Turkey person or not.
And I'm like, a what areyou talking about? And he said,
(07:15):
coach man, everythank's giving Christmas.People from where you live rolling under our
neighborhoods and they drop off gifts andhams and turkeys, and we take them
because we ain't got none. Butthen they lead and we never see them
again. Makes you wonder if they'redoing that because they really care about us,
so they're doing that to make themselvesfeel good. He love me dead
(07:35):
and eyes, and he said,coach what the hell are you doing down
here? Man? And I'm gonnatell you something. If you serve in
a soup kitchen or give away turkeysor hams or something to the needy at
Christmas, that's a beautiful thing.That's not what the story is about.
What the stories about his motive?You know? Are you seeking leadership positions
(07:56):
because you like the pats on theback. Are you seeking a better position
in your company because you specifically onlywent up owner office to block on the
door in the bigger check or doyou understand that with those leadership positions come
to opportunity to serve. If you'remotivated by only exalting yourself, you're not
(08:18):
going to be a leader. You'regonna be a fraud. And so the
point is what I say to you, the greatest success, the greatest measure
of the success of the leaders theactions of the followers. What I found
out at Manassas was the reason halfthat team wasn't buy any of the important
stuff. Is because anybody, anytimeanybody asked me about Manassas, I was
(08:39):
all too happy to tell them everythingI was doing, but I wouldn't give
them credit to the kids, andso those kids all right through me.
I wasn't motivated properly. My motivationwas always supposed to be about the edification
of the kids, about the successof the kids on that team and the
work they were doing to pull themselvesup. I wouldn't saving anybody, they
(09:00):
were saving themselves. I was justgiving the roadmap how to do it.
Once I stepped back and humbled myselfand gave credit to the followers, to
the kids, that's when things changed. And the reason I know what a
Turkey person is because I was,in fact one and it took a seventeen
year old hood to teach me thatvery valuable lesson. That is just incredible.
(09:22):
I'm Ryan Gorman here with coach BillCourtney from the Oscar winning documentary Undefeated.
He's also host of the iHeartRadio podcastAn Army of Normal Folks. So
your program experiences all of this success, how does that end up becoming an
Academy Award winning documentary leading so manypeople around the country to be able to
(09:43):
see the work that you and yourteam did and hopefully offer some ideas for
others to incorporate that program in theircommunities. Yeah. Man, I mean
some guys in LA who had onecredit to their name, and it was
a heartfelt, thought provoking documentary onthe world series of beer Pong. I
(10:07):
think that's what. Yeah, I'vegot kidding. They show up with some
cameras and a very small budget andthey start filming, and they leave Memphis
with five hundred and fifty hours offilm and added together a movie that again
I really I thought it was evergoing to be a big deal. In
a year and a half later,we won an Academy Award. But what
(10:30):
that did was it gave me aplatform, gave me a platform to talk
about the stuff that I think matters, and from that came speeches. Then
Against the Grain, my book asa result of the speeches. Still more
speeches, still do speeches all thetime, speak all of the country,
and the opportunity came up to starta podcast that highlights normal people just like
(10:56):
me. I got with the lumbercompany from Memphis, a cop from North
Little Rock, and all kinds ofother stories of just normal people, not
politicians, not a listers, notcelebrities, just normal people who see it
a place of need in their communityand they fill it. And so we're
(11:18):
telling the stories of people who dothose things, not because they're ordained or
because it's a perfect hallmark wrapped ina perfect pink bow. But normal people
have struggles. Normal people have theirown insecurities, normal people have money troubles
and family troubles, and so theseare the stories of people who overcome those
(11:39):
difficulties and they do amazing things intheir communities despite their difficulties, you know,
like normal people. And in tellingeach of these stories on our podcast,
our hope is that our listeners themselvesget inspired and said, well,
if this normal person can overcome itand do stuff, so can I.
(12:01):
And then through that we grow literallyan army of normal people that say,
forget people on fancy people on Foxand CNN, forget people in DC and
the powerbrokers that want to rule ourlives and pull us apart where they're narratives.
We're just going to be normal peopleseeing need and filling up in our
(12:22):
communities. And if we could createan army of people doing that, we
can literally change our society. Let'stalk about the way you're approaching this for
a second, because this isn't somegrand plan, This isn't some grand idea
to change the world. You're reallyfocused on one person at a time,
(12:43):
in one community at a time,across the country, one person at a
time, one community at a time, one story at a time. And
as each of these stories and thesepeople and these communities are impacted, if
they just grow as part of anarmyttle by little, one story, one
(13:05):
person, one community of time,we maybe can create a movement and a
movement of normal people, just men, women, black, white, Asian,
Christian, non Christian, Democrats,Republicans, moderates. I don't care.
(13:26):
We're all welcome because the one thingwe can all agree on is that
there's need in our communities. Andthe one thing we can always rally around
together, regardless of who we are, where we come from, is celebrating
the people who feel that need sowe can create an army of normal folks
that can't be divided by what thecurrent political and popular narrative wants to say
(13:52):
about us because of who we are, where we come from, what we
believe, or what we look like. You know, it's interesting. I've
done a lot of Hurricane Ridge forI Heart Radio all different places in recent
years. In fact, every timethere's a storm that hits anywhere along the
Southeast, I'm handling some of thecoverage. And when I'm doing that,
especially in the aftermath of the storm, I'm talking to all kinds of different
(14:13):
people in the community and they're callingup and they're looking for different ways to
help each other. And you neverhear when they call up, Hey,
I'm a Republican. Are there Republicansout there who need help? I'm a
Democrat. Are the Democrats I'm youknow, part of this community, or
I'm this gender or that race.It's just wanting to help your fellow members
(14:37):
of the community so we can doit. And the way you seem to
approach it with this podcast and withthis movement you're creating an army of normal
folks is just getting back to thatbasic ability to just help each other and
understand each other on a personal level. It is respecting one another's humanity in
(15:01):
a civil, non threatening way,and celebrating the work that each of us
can do in our communities to betterour communities, regardless of who you are
or where you come from, andin doing so, learning about one another
and dispelling the notion that if youdon't think like me, your muffo,
(15:22):
that is crap. It's destroying us. It's pulling apart the very fabric of
our nation, and I'm tired ofit. So why not celebrate the average
among us who do above average stuffand inspire ourselves to create an army of
normal folks to take back our culture. And this goes back to when you
(15:46):
started coaching at Manassas High School,because despite maybe some of the things you
can understand about the lives of thesestudents, it sounds like there was also
a big gap, a big differencein terms of where maybe you were coming
from and what they knew life tobe. Yet you guys came together and
(16:07):
made it work and accomplished incredible things. Yeah, if you watch the movie,
I think will be interesting races onlymentioned once And for those who haven't
seen it. I'm a white guyand in seven years there was only one
white kid that went to Manassas.It's an all African American school. And
the document document, the guys whodirected the document, the documentary, they
(16:33):
simply filmed and nothing was scripted.Nothing was hey, do this? Would
you mind say this? Stand overhere? Nothing was blocked, nothing was
scripted. And the whole point toall of that is the only reason race
is mentioned once in five hundred andfifty hours of film is because the kids
and the coaches it didn't matter tous. We were about getting better as
(16:56):
people and getting better as a footballteam. And the kids learned a lot
from us. But I'm gonna tellyou something else. I learned a bunch
from the kids. I learned abunch from the experience. My life is.
I'd say maybe even more maybe thekids. I may be more enriched
by the experience and the kids work. And that's kind of the payoff.
You get a thousand times more outof it what you put into it if
(17:18):
you will just match your abilities withyour passion and get out of your comfort
zone and find a place in needand try to fill it. And what
happens is often miraculous in the livesof those you seek to help in your
own. And I'm just telling you, man, there's need all over this
(17:42):
country, and there's good people allover this country. There's normal people of
the country that have amazing talents.And I'm just inviting folks to be inspired
by stories and see need in theircommunities and fill it and in doing so,
(18:02):
join us at at Normal Folks,got us subscribe, be a part
of this army, and let's seeif we can't have a movement that changes
our culture and puts it back ontrack rather than this divisive crap we're dealing
with right now. And that wasgoing to be my final question, aside
from obviously watching the Oscar winning documentaryUndefeated and listening to your podcast on IHR
(18:29):
Radio an army of normal folks?Are there other ways that people can get
involved and start to build their ownarmy of normal folks in their community.
Yeah, every one of our guestsleaves their personal information. We want to
be approachable and reachable because they're normalfolks. We're not some big wigs that
you know, have your people talkto my people. So you go to
(18:52):
normal Folks dot us and subscribe.If you want to talk to me,
reach out to me A bill anormal Folks dot us. Our producers are
available, I'm available, our guestsare available, and if you hear something
that you think you might can do, we stand at the ready to help
you. That helps, just getstarted, just go across the street,
(19:15):
employ your passion, employ your abilities, and make a difference in your community.
And so you can do that,you can go to Coach Bill Courtney
dot com and learn more about allof it. So lots of places to
get connected. Most importantly, downloadthe podcast and just start listening, which
you can do on our Heart,Spotify, Google, wherever you listen to
(19:41):
podcasts and listen hopefully get motivated,inspired and join the movement and army of
normal folks. Coach Bill Courtney fromthe Oscar winning documentary Undefeated. He's also
host of the Iheartradial podcast An Armyof Normal Folks. Coach Courtney, A
real pleasure to have you on theshow. We appreciate you coming on.
I really appreciate you as well.Thank you. All right, I'm Ryan
(20:03):
Gorman here on iHeartRadio Communities and nowto bring in our next guest, I'm
joined by Emmy Award winner Paula farisa Good Morning America weekend and the view
and author of you Don't Have toCarry it All, Ditch the mom guilt
and find a better way forward.Paula, thank you so much for taking
a few minutes to join us.And first of all, what was it
(20:23):
that inspired you to write a bookspecifically speaking to working moms all across the
country. Well, first of all, I lost my job at the beginning
of the pandemic, like a lotof other moms, and I had a
choice to continue in network news,which is pretty much the expected choice,
that's the safe choice, or Icould really pursue this passion that had been
(20:45):
really igniting years ago. Ryan.You know, I'm a mother of three
and just my own treatment in theworkplace, like feeling like I was less
then and being scrutinized. And themore I looked into it and researched it,
I was like, I can't this. Mothers are actually one of the
more marginalized groups in America. Andthat is the fact that isn't fiction.
(21:07):
It's not feeling. Once you becomea mother, you are paid less.
Statistically, you're paid seventy cents andthe dollars come here to fathers. Once
you become a mother, year passedover on promotions, you're not being a
vible leader anymore, and you're scrutinizedmore. And then you add on top
of that record levels of burnout formothers here in America. Mom built the
tension between working and mommy, andthen young women who are faced with the
(21:30):
choice, Oh, do you wantkids or career, because you've got to
choose right. So I saw theseinequities, and I saw this marginalized group,
and I was like, I gotto do something about it. So
I wrote the book for mothers.It's it's a roadmap towards a better way
forward of working and mommy, andit's a hug and a sword. You'll
feel seen and heard and you'll alsofeel really empowered. But I look at
(21:51):
the research in the history of howwe got to this point, and I
set it up through interviews with expertsand researchers and sociology and historians and mothers
from all walks, and I'm essentiallysetting up how we can give working moms
to support they need and deserve.But the why behind it because we talk
about giving supporting families and supporting momsall the time. For a lot of
(22:12):
people don't understand why and the reasonwhy it's good for our economy. It's
not just the right thing to dothat benefits theself. Because if if we
have fewer children, which you're alreadyseeing we're having fewer and fewer children,
we'll have fewer laborers. If wedon't have a labor market, we cannot
grow our economy, and then we'llhave economic crisis that affects every single one
of us, regardless of whether ornot we have kids. And the reason
(22:33):
why we have to support working momsis most moms work because they have to.
Seventy percent of moms are going tobe the primary breadwinner. If we
can continue to pay them seventy centsin the dollar, that's going to continue
cycles of debt and poverty. Thetrue health of a country is how it
treats its families, and we doa poor job of supporting families and a
poor job of supporting mothers in theworkplace. And I think that's why we're
(22:55):
in the situation we're in in thiscountry now. Of course, you worked
in a very unique industry. GoodMorning America, Weekend, The View ABC
news. But what you write aboutin this book, it's really something that
every mom can relate to, regardlessof what their profession is. Right,
Oh, one hundred percent. Yeah, And again I want moms to feel
seen and heard. It is asword there. They will feel very empowered.
(23:18):
It's very helpful and it's very hopeful. But it's fascinating for me just
to look at the research and thehistory coupled alongside of the personal anecdotes to
figure out how we got to thispoint? Was why is it so hard
to be a mom in America?Harder than anywhere else in the world?
Like why is that? And youcan't really understand that until you figure out
like how we got to this point. But the book, yes, is
the books is for mothers. ButRyan, we can't we can't change the
(23:41):
game for families and change the gamefor working moms without men in the fight.
I have a chapter dedicated to invitingmen into the conversation. How we
can do that, what that lookslike? How men can be an ally?
Like I think men, you actuallyhave the greatest opportunity to change and
gender equality for us by taking paternityleave. Now, there's a myriad of
things you can do. But ifyou take your paternity leave or if you
(24:04):
fight for it, if you don'thave it, that just levels the playing
field. That does more for genderequality than I think anything else. And
the reason why it's not just goodbonding between you and your kids. It's
not just you know, supporting yourpartner, but it changes the dynamic of
raising the child out of the gate. Instead of the mom being the default
for every single thing, you're init together from the very beginning. You
(24:26):
are parenting together. You are raisingthat child together. There's not this bifurcation
of mom does this, dad doesthat? Right, You're a true partnership
out of the gate, and Ithink men can do more so to help
us in this fight than just aboutanybody else that we need. You as
an ally have a chapter dedicated towhat corporate America can do and how we
(24:47):
can ask corporate America to do moreand the creative ways that they can get
involved in helping change, speaking offor working moms too. So again,
the book is like it's my perspectiveas a journalist. So again, it's
like real fact oriented, it's notfiction, and it's hopeful, it's helpful.
It's putting tools I essentially give youa tool belt and tools is how
(25:10):
we can find a better way forwardfor families, and how we can find
a better way forward for working moms. And again, we all have an
interest in this, whether or notyou're a parent, and supporting families is
the right thing to do, andit's good for all of us, it's
good for our economy. We're joinedby Emmy Award winning journalist Paula Faris,
author of the new book You Don'tHave to Carry It All, Ditch the
mom guilt and find a better wayforward. So let me focus in on
(25:36):
corporate America first, and what youexperienced. What are some of the things
that maybe others, including me,guys, well, we don't realize working
moms are going through as they're tryingto balance a career and being a mother.
Yeah for sure. I mean,you probably haven't heard of the terms
dad guilt or the daddy gap,or the dad penalty or being a working
(25:56):
dad, right because those don't exist. So right, you just see some
of the double standards. I mean, and again, you don't know what
you don't know, Ryan, andI don't fault to for that less.
I'm raising two boys and a daughterand I'm obsessed with my boys. I
love my husband. This is notabout a masculating men. This is just
about a we have to understand you'reborn into your own set of toxic messages
(26:18):
of masculinity and the patriarchy. Wehave to understand that. And men also
come to the conversation feeling a littleintimidated, a little less said. You
guys have so much power to helpus in this conversation, though, and
I think we have to first realizewhat you're dealing with. And you know,
do you want to be a realman or do you want to be
a good man? You know,and a real man provides for his family.
(26:40):
And that's what you've been hearing fromthe time you're young, is that
you have one job and that's toprovide for your family. So it's a
lot of it is deconstructing some ofthese toxic messages that we've all been heard,
that we've all heard, you know, with mothers and as fathers.
But again, we all have ahand in changing the game for families and
changing the game for working moms,and we cannot do it. We had
not accomplished this without men in thering with us, Without men in the
(27:06):
fight with us. I'm curious whenyou took a look at the history of
working moms in America, can youcompare previous generations to what moms today are
dealing with and some of the keydifferences. Yeah, how much time do
we have? So how did wego from describing ourselves as resourceful and hard
working and industrial us too burned out, exhausted the moms that we are today
(27:29):
a lot of a lot of ourissues. I think we're born in June
Cleever's kitchen in the nineteen fifties becausewe romanticize what this true family looks like,
which was good for part of thepeople part of the time. And
the reason you could have a oneincome home was because at the time,
blacks were forced out of the workforce. Women weren't allowed to work. Men
came home with lipstick on their collar. But what could the women do because
(27:52):
if they got a job, theywere paid much less. Right, and
you know, rape was still legalin mary marriage. A third of our
country was in poverty. I don'twant to go back to that time,
but I don't realize it until Iactually looked at history. But there's so
many things that men can do,you know, going back to your even
to your earlier question, like youknow, I tell my husband, I'm
(28:14):
like, don't mentor another woman,sponsor a woman. You know, there
are so many practical and tactical thingsthat you can do. The paternity leaves
the biggest one. UM it's andwe as women need to know how the
language to even invite men into thisconversation. But we all have a vested
interest whether or not we have children. Corporate America has has an invested interest
in. Corporate America just needs tolearn that. Like when you sup a
(28:37):
well supported mother, UM is aproductive mother when you allow her to be
a mom first and foremost, sheis one of the best employees, if
not the most effective and productive employeesthat you can get. And she's loyal
and she won't leave. And youlook at the landscape or corporate America.
One of the greatest cost of doingbusinesses is hiring and retention and turnover,
(28:57):
and they can't find good people.Hire a mom. We'll let her be
a mom first, and there's waysthat you can support her. And I
break those dews. I get creative. I show what such certain corporations are
doing and the creative ways that youcan support families and support you know,
working moms, and how it's goodfor everybody. Emmy Award winning journalist Paula
(29:21):
Faris author of the new book YouDon't Have to Carry It All, Ditch
the mom guilt and find a betterway forward. Paula really appreciate the time.
Thanks so much for coming on theshow. Thank you, Ryan,
and thanks for being an ally.We can't do it without you. It's
my pleasure. Thanks again, Paula. And that's going to do it for
this edition of iHeartRadio Communities. Aswe wrap things up, one offer a
big thanks to all of our guestsand of course to all of you for
(29:41):
listening. I'm your host, RyanGorman. We'll talk to you again real soon.
Welcome to iHeartRadio Communities, a publicaffairs special focusing on the biggest issues impacting
you. This week, here's RyanGorman. Thanks so much for joining us
here on iHeartRadio Communities. I'm RyanGorman, and we have some important conversations
lined up for you. In justa bit, I'll talk to Emmy Award
winner Paula Faris about her brand newbook, which focuses on support for working
(00:23):
moms, So make sure to stickaround for that. Right now, to
get things started, I'm joined byCoach Bill Courtney from the Oscar winning documentary
Undefeated. He's host of the iHeartRadiopodcast An Army of Normal Folks, a
movement to help empower Americans to changeour country by each of us doing what
we can. Coach Courtney, thanksso much for coming on the show.
(00:44):
And I want to go back tothe beginning when you were running a business
in Memphis, Tennessee, and youbegan volunteering as a football coach at a
local inner city school. What wasit that drove you to become a coach
at Manassas High School. Well,thanks for having me, Ryan. First
of all, so when I graduatedfrom college, I was a football coach
(01:07):
and a teacher. That's what Idid for a living. My dad left
home when I was four. Mymom was married and divorced five times.
I grew up in a kind ofa broken environment. And the good men
in my life with my football coaches, and so when I graduated college,
that's really was my calling. Theproblem is, my wife's a dime and
(01:29):
I'm kind of ugly, and inthe South, in the South, when
you light into a slab, yougot to keep around. So I just
started having kids, and so wehad four kids in four years, and
I couldn't afford my family. SoI had to get out of coaching for
a living and started by business.Like you said, classic American Hardwoods.
But in state at Tennessee, youcan be what's called a certified non faculty
(01:51):
coach and you got to take allthese classes and stuff that allows you to
continue to coach at a high leveleven if you're not staff member the school.
And so I did. And whenI started my business, there was
a school called Manassas that was ahalf milethful where my company was. They
needed some help, and so honestly, what brought me to Manassas originally was
(02:15):
just they were near, they wereconvenient. When I got there, I
found seventeen kids on a football teamthat had won four games in ten years.
Their previous ten years record was fourwins and ninety five losses. And
we went to work coaching, andseven years later I had seventy five kids
(02:36):
on the team. We were eighteenwins and two losses and eight kids going
to college. And these goofy dudeswearing skinny jeans and scarves showed up from
LA and made a movie that Inever thought anybody would see. And a
year and a half later, I'mwalking down the red carpet at the Academy
Awards. Beyond just the obvious improvementsthe football program at Manassas High School,
(02:59):
when you started coaching there, youdidn't just have was it seventeen nineteen players,
You had a real situation in termsof their personal lives to deal with.
Talk a little bit about that,yeah, I mean it was clear
that we weren't going to be justcoaching football and concepts and three point stances
(03:23):
and routes and line play. Weneeded to coach character, commitment, integrity,
the value of hard work, theimportance showing up on time, basic
values, and tenants that lead toa meaningful life. And I mean,
any coach with they're sold will tellyou that most of everything you're learning on
(03:47):
a football field, the real valueto that is after the helmets and pads
are put up and you're too oldever played the game again, that those
things that you learned on a footballfield hopefully serve you well beyond the time
football's played into life. And itdid for me well, Evan Asses.
(04:11):
We had a lot of work todo in that regard, and so we
started coaching and teaching all that stuff. And it wasn't easy. I mean,
it was hard, and it washard for the kids. The kids
were hearing and being asked to subscribeto notions and ideas that were really not
relevant in their lives up to thatpoint. And it was a combat upon
(04:35):
us as coaches to not just browbeatthe kids with a bunch of stuff,
but to try to illustrate to themhow we employed those tenants in our own
lives for our own successes and illustrateto them if you do that, it
gives you a chance of success oflife. And so we were coaching football,
but we were also coaching life skills. And you were also potentially saving
(04:58):
lives because this was an neighborhood whereyoung men are three times more likely to
be dead or in jail than havea job or be in college. How
did you get them to buy inand what was that process like trying to
get them to the place where youwanted them to be. The greatest measure
of the success of a leaders theactions of the followers. If you show
(05:25):
me an organization or the followers andall the people involved in it are doing
really well, the organization successful,you've got good leadership. If you look
at an organization where the employees orthe players or whatever kind of running amuck
and not taking care of what they'resupposed to be taking care of, yeah
it's a problem with them, butI'll tell you it's a problem at the
(05:46):
top first. Because the greatest measureof the success of a leaders the actions
of followers. And halfway through myfirst season of a NASSIS, we were
three and three. Now, Ithink three and three is pretty average,
but when you're win four games inten years, you know that's not bad,
right, And so the whole teamwas yes or noser on the football
(06:10):
field as a result, and thatwas great, But half the team was
buying into the important stuff like we'retalking about, and while the other half
the team was yes or noser onthe football field, they weren't really buying
into all the character the commitments stuff. And the minute football was over,
they were back engaged in the samedestructive behavior that kind of got them to
(06:31):
four and ninety six in the firstplace. So I went to my guy
and I said, hey, man, what do I got to do to
get this half the team to buyinto the important stuff? Like you're half
the team? And he dismissively said, just off, coach, just keep
doing what you're doing and I mightknow. Man, we'll talk. Why
don't you talk to me about this? And he said, I don't want
to hurt your feelings. I said, you're not going to hurt my feelings.
(06:54):
What do I got to do toget that half the team to buy
into the important characteristics and that Iwant all of you to buy in.
They're good on the football, butthey're not buying any important stuff. And
he said, all right, we'regonna talk. Said yep. He said,
goats are trying to figure out ifyou're a Turkey person or not.
And I'm like, a what areyou talking about? And he said,
(07:15):
coach man, everythank's giving Christmas.People from where you live rolling under our
neighborhoods and they drop off gifts andhams and turkeys, and we take them
because we ain't got none. Butthen they lead and we never see them
again. Makes you wonder if they'redoing that because they really care about us,
so they're doing that to make themselvesfeel good. He love me dead
(07:35):
and eyes, and he said,coach what the hell are you doing down
here? Man? And I'm gonnatell you something. If you serve in
a soup kitchen or give away turkeysor hams or something to the needy at
Christmas, that's a beautiful thing.That's not what the story is about.
What the stories about his motive?You know? Are you seeking leadership positions
(07:56):
because you like the pats on theback. Are you seeking a better position
in your company because you specifically onlywent up owner office to block on the
door in the bigger check or doyou understand that with those leadership positions come
to opportunity to serve. If you'remotivated by only exalting yourself, you're not
(08:18):
going to be a leader. You'regonna be a fraud. And so the
point is what I say to you, the greatest success, the greatest measure
of the success of the leaders theactions of the followers. What I found
out at Manassas was the reason halfthat team wasn't buy any of the important
stuff. Is because anybody, anytimeanybody asked me about Manassas, I was
(08:39):
all too happy to tell them everythingI was doing, but I wouldn't give
them credit to the kids, andso those kids all right through me.
I wasn't motivated properly. My motivationwas always supposed to be about the edification
of the kids, about the successof the kids on that team and the
work they were doing to pull themselvesup. I wouldn't saving anybody, they
(09:00):
were saving themselves. I was justgiving the roadmap how to do it.
Once I stepped back and humbled myselfand gave credit to the followers, to
the kids, that's when things changed. And the reason I know what a
Turkey person is because I was,in fact one and it took a seventeen
year old hood to teach me thatvery valuable lesson. That is just incredible.
(09:22):
I'm Ryan Gorman here with coach BillCourtney from the Oscar winning documentary Undefeated.
He's also host of the iHeartRadio podcastAn Army of Normal Folks. So
your program experiences all of this success, how does that end up becoming an
Academy Award winning documentary leading so manypeople around the country to be able to
(09:43):
see the work that you and yourteam did and hopefully offer some ideas for
others to incorporate that program in theircommunities. Yeah. Man, I mean
some guys in LA who had onecredit to their name, and it was
a heartfelt, thought provoking documentary onthe world series of beer Pong. I
(10:07):
think that's what. Yeah, I'vegot kidding. They show up with some
cameras and a very small budget andthey start filming, and they leave Memphis
with five hundred and fifty hours offilm and added together a movie that again
I really I thought it was evergoing to be a big deal. In
a year and a half later,we won an Academy Award. But what
(10:30):
that did was it gave me aplatform, gave me a platform to talk
about the stuff that I think matters, and from that came speeches. Then
Against the Grain, my book asa result of the speeches. Still more
speeches, still do speeches all thetime, speak all of the country,
and the opportunity came up to starta podcast that highlights normal people just like
(10:56):
me. I got with the lumbercompany from Memphis, a cop from North
Little Rock, and all kinds ofother stories of just normal people, not
politicians, not a listers, notcelebrities, just normal people who see it
a place of need in their communityand they fill it. And so we're
(11:18):
telling the stories of people who dothose things, not because they're ordained or
because it's a perfect hallmark wrapped ina perfect pink bow. But normal people
have struggles. Normal people have theirown insecurities, normal people have money troubles
and family troubles, and so theseare the stories of people who overcome those
(11:39):
difficulties and they do amazing things intheir communities despite their difficulties, you know,
like normal people. And in tellingeach of these stories on our podcast,
our hope is that our listeners themselvesget inspired and said, well,
if this normal person can overcome itand do stuff, so can I.
(12:01):
And then through that we grow literallyan army of normal people that say,
forget people on fancy people on Foxand CNN, forget people in DC and
the powerbrokers that want to rule ourlives and pull us apart where they're narratives.
We're just going to be normal peopleseeing need and filling up in our
(12:22):
communities. And if we could createan army of people doing that, we
can literally change our society. Let'stalk about the way you're approaching this for
a second, because this isn't somegrand plan, This isn't some grand idea
to change the world. You're reallyfocused on one person at a time,
(12:43):
in one community at a time,across the country, one person at a
time, one community at a time, one story at a time. And
as each of these stories and thesepeople and these communities are impacted, if
they just grow as part of anarmyttle by little, one story, one
(13:05):
person, one community of time,we maybe can create a movement and a
movement of normal people, just men, women, black, white, Asian,
Christian, non Christian, Democrats,Republicans, moderates. I don't care.
(13:26):
We're all welcome because the one thingwe can all agree on is that
there's need in our communities. Andthe one thing we can always rally around
together, regardless of who we are, where we come from, is celebrating
the people who feel that need sowe can create an army of normal folks
that can't be divided by what thecurrent political and popular narrative wants to say
(13:52):
about us because of who we are, where we come from, what we
believe, or what we look like. You know, it's interesting. I've
done a lot of Hurricane Ridge forI Heart Radio all different places in recent
years. In fact, every timethere's a storm that hits anywhere along the
Southeast, I'm handling some of thecoverage. And when I'm doing that,
especially in the aftermath of the storm, I'm talking to all kinds of different
(14:13):
people in the community and they're callingup and they're looking for different ways to
help each other. And you neverhear when they call up, Hey,
I'm a Republican. Are there Republicansout there who need help? I'm a
Democrat. Are the Democrats I'm youknow, part of this community, or
I'm this gender or that race.It's just wanting to help your fellow members
(14:37):
of the community so we can doit. And the way you seem to
approach it with this podcast and withthis movement you're creating an army of normal
folks is just getting back to thatbasic ability to just help each other and
understand each other on a personal level. It is respecting one another's humanity in
(15:01):
a civil, non threatening way,and celebrating the work that each of us
can do in our communities to betterour communities, regardless of who you are
or where you come from, andin doing so, learning about one another
and dispelling the notion that if youdon't think like me, your muffo,
(15:22):
that is crap. It's destroying us. It's pulling apart the very fabric of
our nation, and I'm tired ofit. So why not celebrate the average
among us who do above average stuffand inspire ourselves to create an army of
normal folks to take back our culture. And this goes back to when you
(15:46):
started coaching at Manassas High School,because despite maybe some of the things you
can understand about the lives of thesestudents, it sounds like there was also
a big gap, a big differencein terms of where maybe you were coming
from and what they knew life tobe. Yet you guys came together and
(16:07):
made it work and accomplished incredible things. Yeah, if you watch the movie,
I think will be interesting races onlymentioned once And for those who haven't
seen it. I'm a white guyand in seven years there was only one
white kid that went to Manassas.It's an all African American school. And
the document document, the guys whodirected the document, the documentary, they
(16:33):
simply filmed and nothing was scripted.Nothing was hey, do this? Would
you mind say this? Stand overhere? Nothing was blocked, nothing was
scripted. And the whole point toall of that is the only reason race
is mentioned once in five hundred andfifty hours of film is because the kids
and the coaches it didn't matter tous. We were about getting better as
(16:56):
people and getting better as a footballteam. And the kids learned a lot
from us. But I'm gonna tellyou something else. I learned a bunch
from the kids. I learned abunch from the experience. My life is.
I'd say maybe even more maybe thekids. I may be more enriched
by the experience and the kids work. And that's kind of the payoff.
You get a thousand times more outof it what you put into it if
(17:18):
you will just match your abilities withyour passion and get out of your comfort
zone and find a place in needand try to fill it. And what
happens is often miraculous in the livesof those you seek to help in your
own. And I'm just telling you, man, there's need all over this
(17:42):
country, and there's good people allover this country. There's normal people of
the country that have amazing talents.And I'm just inviting folks to be inspired
by stories and see need in theircommunities and fill it and in doing so,
(18:02):
join us at at Normal Folks,got us subscribe, be a part
of this army, and let's seeif we can't have a movement that changes
our culture and puts it back ontrack rather than this divisive crap we're dealing
with right now. And that wasgoing to be my final question, aside
from obviously watching the Oscar winning documentaryUndefeated and listening to your podcast on IHR
(18:29):
Radio an army of normal folks?Are there other ways that people can get
involved and start to build their ownarmy of normal folks in their community.
Yeah, every one of our guestsleaves their personal information. We want to
be approachable and reachable because they're normalfolks. We're not some big wigs that
you know, have your people talkto my people. So you go to
(18:52):
normal Folks dot us and subscribe.If you want to talk to me,
reach out to me A bill anormal Folks dot us. Our producers are
available, I'm available, our guestsare available, and if you hear something
that you think you might can do, we stand at the ready to help
you. That helps, just getstarted, just go across the street,
(19:15):
employ your passion, employ your abilities, and make a difference in your community.
And so you can do that,you can go to Coach Bill Courtney
dot com and learn more about allof it. So lots of places to
get connected. Most importantly, downloadthe podcast and just start listening, which
you can do on our Heart,Spotify, Google, wherever you listen to
(19:41):
podcasts and listen hopefully get motivated,inspired and join the movement and army of
normal folks. Coach Bill Courtney fromthe Oscar winning documentary Undefeated. He's also
host of the Iheartradial podcast An Armyof Normal Folks. Coach Courtney, A
real pleasure to have you on theshow. We appreciate you coming on.
I really appreciate you as well.Thank you. All right, I'm Ryan
(20:03):
Gorman here on iHeartRadio Communities and nowto bring in our next guest, I'm
joined by Emmy Award winner Paula farisa Good Morning America weekend and the view
and author of you Don't Have toCarry it All, Ditch the mom guilt
and find a better way forward.Paula, thank you so much for taking
a few minutes to join us.And first of all, what was it
(20:23):
that inspired you to write a bookspecifically speaking to working moms all across the
country. Well, first of all, I lost my job at the beginning
of the pandemic, like a lotof other moms, and I had a
choice to continue in network news,which is pretty much the expected choice,
that's the safe choice, or Icould really pursue this passion that had been
(20:45):
really igniting years ago. Ryan.You know, I'm a mother of three
and just my own treatment in theworkplace, like feeling like I was less
then and being scrutinized. And themore I looked into it and researched it,
I was like, I can't this. Mothers are actually one of the
more marginalized groups in America. Andthat is the fact that isn't fiction.
(21:07):
It's not feeling. Once you becomea mother, you are paid less.
Statistically, you're paid seventy cents andthe dollars come here to fathers. Once
you become a mother, year passedover on promotions, you're not being a
vible leader anymore, and you're scrutinizedmore. And then you add on top
of that record levels of burnout formothers here in America. Mom built the
tension between working and mommy, andthen young women who are faced with the
(21:30):
choice, Oh, do you wantkids or career, because you've got to
choose right. So I saw theseinequities, and I saw this marginalized group,
and I was like, I gotto do something about it. So
I wrote the book for mothers.It's it's a roadmap towards a better way
forward of working and mommy, andit's a hug and a sword. You'll
feel seen and heard and you'll alsofeel really empowered. But I look at
(21:51):
the research in the history of howwe got to this point, and I
set it up through interviews with expertsand researchers and sociology and historians and mothers
from all walks, and I'm essentiallysetting up how we can give working moms
to support they need and deserve.But the why behind it because we talk
about giving supporting families and supporting momsall the time. For a lot of
(22:12):
people don't understand why and the reasonwhy it's good for our economy. It's
not just the right thing to dothat benefits theself. Because if if we
have fewer children, which you're alreadyseeing we're having fewer and fewer children,
we'll have fewer laborers. If wedon't have a labor market, we cannot
grow our economy, and then we'llhave economic crisis that affects every single one
of us, regardless of whether ornot we have kids. And the reason
(22:33):
why we have to support working momsis most moms work because they have to.
Seventy percent of moms are going tobe the primary breadwinner. If we
can continue to pay them seventy centsin the dollar, that's going to continue
cycles of debt and poverty. Thetrue health of a country is how it
treats its families, and we doa poor job of supporting families and a
poor job of supporting mothers in theworkplace. And I think that's why we're
(22:55):
in the situation we're in in thiscountry now. Of course, you worked
in a very unique industry. GoodMorning America, Weekend, The View ABC
news. But what you write aboutin this book, it's really something that
every mom can relate to, regardlessof what their profession is. Right,
Oh, one hundred percent. Yeah, And again I want moms to feel
seen and heard. It is asword there. They will feel very empowered.
(23:18):
It's very helpful and it's very hopeful. But it's fascinating for me just
to look at the research and thehistory coupled alongside of the personal anecdotes to
figure out how we got to thispoint? Was why is it so hard
to be a mom in America?Harder than anywhere else in the world?
Like why is that? And youcan't really understand that until you figure out
like how we got to this point. But the book, yes, is
the books is for mothers. ButRyan, we can't we can't change the
(23:41):
game for families and change the gamefor working moms without men in the fight.
I have a chapter dedicated to invitingmen into the conversation. How we
can do that, what that lookslike? How men can be an ally?
Like I think men, you actuallyhave the greatest opportunity to change and
gender equality for us by taking paternityleave. Now, there's a myriad of
things you can do. But ifyou take your paternity leave or if you
(24:04):
fight for it, if you don'thave it, that just levels the playing
field. That does more for genderequality than I think anything else. And
the reason why it's not just goodbonding between you and your kids. It's
not just you know, supporting yourpartner, but it changes the dynamic of
raising the child out of the gate. Instead of the mom being the default
for every single thing, you're init together from the very beginning. You
(24:26):
are parenting together. You are raisingthat child together. There's not this bifurcation
of mom does this, dad doesthat? Right, You're a true partnership
out of the gate, and Ithink men can do more so to help
us in this fight than just aboutanybody else that we need. You as
an ally have a chapter dedicated towhat corporate America can do and how we
(24:47):
can ask corporate America to do moreand the creative ways that they can get
involved in helping change, speaking offor working moms too. So again,
the book is like it's my perspectiveas a journalist. So again, it's
like real fact oriented, it's notfiction, and it's hopeful, it's helpful.
It's putting tools I essentially give youa tool belt and tools is how
(25:10):
we can find a better way forwardfor families, and how we can find
a better way forward for working moms. And again, we all have an
interest in this, whether or notyou're a parent, and supporting families is
the right thing to do, andit's good for all of us, it's
good for our economy. We're joinedby Emmy Award winning journalist Paula Faris,
author of the new book You Don'tHave to Carry It All, Ditch the
mom guilt and find a better wayforward. So let me focus in on
(25:36):
corporate America first, and what youexperienced. What are some of the things
that maybe others, including me,guys, well, we don't realize working
moms are going through as they're tryingto balance a career and being a mother.
Yeah for sure. I mean,you probably haven't heard of the terms
dad guilt or the daddy gap,or the dad penalty or being a working
(25:56):
dad, right because those don't exist. So right, you just see some
of the double standards. I mean, and again, you don't know what
you don't know, Ryan, andI don't fault to for that less.
I'm raising two boys and a daughterand I'm obsessed with my boys. I
love my husband. This is notabout a masculating men. This is just
about a we have to understand you'reborn into your own set of toxic messages
(26:18):
of masculinity and the patriarchy. Wehave to understand that. And men also
come to the conversation feeling a littleintimidated, a little less said. You
guys have so much power to helpus in this conversation, though, and
I think we have to first realizewhat you're dealing with. And you know,
do you want to be a realman or do you want to be
a good man? You know,and a real man provides for his family.
(26:40):
And that's what you've been hearing fromthe time you're young, is that
you have one job and that's toprovide for your family. So it's a
lot of it is deconstructing some ofthese toxic messages that we've all been heard,
that we've all heard, you know, with mothers and as fathers.
But again, we all have ahand in changing the game for families and
changing the game for working moms,and we cannot do it. We had
not accomplished this without men in thering with us, Without men in the
(27:06):
fight with us. I'm curious whenyou took a look at the history of
working moms in America, can youcompare previous generations to what moms today are
dealing with and some of the keydifferences. Yeah, how much time do
we have? So how did wego from describing ourselves as resourceful and hard
working and industrial us too burned out, exhausted the moms that we are today
(27:29):
a lot of a lot of ourissues. I think we're born in June
Cleever's kitchen in the nineteen fifties becausewe romanticize what this true family looks like,
which was good for part of thepeople part of the time. And
the reason you could have a oneincome home was because at the time,
blacks were forced out of the workforce. Women weren't allowed to work. Men
came home with lipstick on their collar. But what could the women do because
(27:52):
if they got a job, theywere paid much less. Right, and
you know, rape was still legalin mary marriage. A third of our
country was in poverty. I don'twant to go back to that time,
but I don't realize it until Iactually looked at history. But there's so
many things that men can do,you know, going back to your even
to your earlier question, like youknow, I tell my husband, I'm
(28:14):
like, don't mentor another woman,sponsor a woman. You know, there
are so many practical and tactical thingsthat you can do. The paternity leaves
the biggest one. UM it's andwe as women need to know how the
language to even invite men into thisconversation. But we all have a vested
interest whether or not we have children. Corporate America has has an invested interest
in. Corporate America just needs tolearn that. Like when you sup a
(28:37):
well supported mother, UM is aproductive mother when you allow her to be
a mom first and foremost, sheis one of the best employees, if
not the most effective and productive employeesthat you can get. And she's loyal
and she won't leave. And youlook at the landscape or corporate America.
One of the greatest cost of doingbusinesses is hiring and retention and turnover,
(28:57):
and they can't find good people.Hire a mom. We'll let her be
a mom first, and there's waysthat you can support her. And I
break those dews. I get creative. I show what such certain corporations are
doing and the creative ways that youcan support families and support you know,
working moms, and how it's goodfor everybody. Emmy Award winning journalist Paula
(29:21):
Faris author of the new book YouDon't Have to Carry It All, Ditch
the mom guilt and find a betterway forward. Paula really appreciate the time.
Thanks so much for coming on theshow. Thank you, Ryan,
and thanks for being an ally.We can't do it without you. It's
my pleasure. Thanks again, Paula. And that's going to do it for
this edition of iHeartRadio Communities. Aswe wrap things up, one offer a
big thanks to all of our guestsand of course to all of you for
(29:41):
listening. I'm your host, RyanGorman. We'll talk to you again real soon.
Host
Manny Munoz
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