10-26-25 Gun Deer Season prep with State Senator and former Navy Seal Sniper Aaron Reed

Gun deer season prep with State Senator and former Navy Seal Sniper Aaron Reed and Firearms Expert Truman Kilburn from OPS Supply. Check them out on Facebook at OPS Supply/Archery Pro Shop.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
News Radio eight forty whas welcomes you to Jim Straighter Outdoors,
the area's leading authority on hunting and fishing. Jim Straighter
Outdoors is brought to you by Massioak Property's Heart Realty.
For the outdoor home of your dreams. Call Paul Thomas
at two seven zero five two four one nine zero
eight Lynden Animal Clinic, your pet's best Friend, Sportsman's Taxidermy.

(00:23):
Visit them at Sportsman's Taxidermy dot com. An Roth Heating
and Cooling, a family owned business with over one hundred
years of experience in the Louisville area. Wildlife Habitat Solutions.
Check Jim and his team on Facebook at Wildlife Habitat
Solutions and by SMI Marine. Getting your boat back on
the water in no time. To join in on the conversation,

(00:44):
call us at five seven one eight four eight four
inside Louisville and one eight hundred four four four eight
four eight four outside the Metro. Now, sit back and
relax and enjoy the next two hours of Jim Straighter
Outdoors on news Radio eight forty whas.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
Good evening, everybody Jim's trader here, I call host Scott
Crownin and Scott.

Speaker 3 (01:06):
We have got I think one.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
Of the best shows we've done in a long time
on board tonight. We've got Aaron Reid, Navy steel Seals,
State Senator and firearms expert, extraordinary because he was a sniper,
and he's gonna talk about accuracy and bullets and how
to sight in everything to get folks ready for deer season.

(01:30):
And we also got Truman Kilburn who is his main
guy there at OPS Supply, and Truman is here to
help us understand ballistics, bullet types, all things about firearms.
But basically tonight we're gonna concentrate on deer and what
we can expect about deer rifles for kids. And you know, Scott,

(01:54):
the interesting thing about tonight's show for me, I'm gonna
call this a totem poll show. And what I mean
by that, We've got a Navy seal sniper to talk
about accuracy and sighting in. We've got Truman Kilburn who's
a firearms expert. We got you who've taught hundreds of

(02:14):
youth and built guns for people, and you got me
at the bottom. I just know how to kill stuff
that's okay, you know, and how good or bad I
am a dad is open to conjecture. But the cool
thing about it is timely because it's coming and there's
a lot of things we're going to reveal the people

(02:34):
to night that they've probably never heard before.

Speaker 4 (02:39):
We're really blessed and fortunate right now with the quality
of the AMO that is out there. There is a
new life in going out to purchase firearms, cause so
much has changed with barrel twist rates and all of
these new calibers, And of course folks are more educated
now than ever before with the power of the internet,

(02:59):
radio and the longer and heavier bullets are starting to
be accepted by a lot of people. Not everybody's trying
to shoot the lightest in the fastest, even though that
does have its place depending on what folks are wanting
to do. But there's just a big difference between putting
a hole in a piece of paper versus putting a
hole in the side of something that can possibly attack

(03:21):
and kill you, like dangerous game all the way to
what bullet we use if we're trying not to tear
up too much meat on the number one game animal
in North America being the white tailed deer.

Speaker 2 (03:32):
Yes, Sir, and that's why we're centering on deer tonight,
and we're going to talk about some other things as well.
But it's gonna be a fun show, and this one
that's gonna be as educational for me obviously as it
will for the audience, because again I'm the low man
on the tatum totem poet.

Speaker 3 (03:49):
I'm about to go to break here. The break is.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
Presented by SMI Marine that are eleven four hundred Westport Road.

Speaker 3 (03:54):
We'll see them. They'll take great care of you.

Speaker 2 (03:57):
Got some grave use boats for sale and all kind
of incentive on the twenty twenty six models that are
on their way. So go see him. Remember you never
get soaked at SMI. Aaron, I'm gonna defer to you
on this as a sniper for obvious reasons. Maybe you
see a sniper. I think you know a little bit
about test. Let's talk about sighting a rifle in for

(04:21):
deer Honting. Okay, let's let's say zero to two hundred,
because practicality, that's what we're gonna see here. Yeah, and
talk about that, you know, and whatever detail you would like.

Speaker 5 (04:35):
Yeah, sure, you know what my go to is. You know,
I usually shoot a thirty caliber bullet. You know, three
O eight is really you know, reliable for me. I mean,
then have the greatest ballistics overall, but I really know
how a three o eight acts. It's kind of like
once you learn the language, you kind of you just
know what that three o eight is gonna do. So
you know, my kid, my my son just killed a
deer this past youth season with his three.

Speaker 6 (04:57):
O eight and you know and congratulates, thank you, thank you.
You know, you have to cite it in that's that's
a big deal.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
You know.

Speaker 5 (05:04):
I can't tell you how many stories I've heard where
a hunter has bought a rifle off the shelf from
Walmart or something and gone out, throw a scope on it,
or it came as a combo, right, and they go
out and they can understand while.

Speaker 6 (05:14):
They're missing, and it blows my mind that they've never
known how.

Speaker 5 (05:18):
To sight in a rifle. So it's really simple. You know,
you you want to shoot the same ammunition that you're
hunting with. Ideally, you know, if you want to get
started with some cheaper ammo just to get you know,
get on paper, that's fine.

Speaker 6 (05:30):
But I I like to start off shooting like twenty
five yards or so. And you know, I put a
round or two.

Speaker 5 (05:35):
Down range into some paper at twenty five twenty five yards,
and hopefully I'm on paper at twenty five. If I'm not,
you know, you want there's some other things that you
can do. But once you're on paper, you know, then
you you extend it out. I like to go to
a hundred I like to get a hundred yard zero.
And I like to buy scopes that have a zero
stop on them. That means when you zero, when you
turn that scope the elevation, you can turn it all

(05:58):
the way down to zero. You can do this at
night when you can't see your numbers, you know. And
me as a sniper, this is a sniper thing, really,
but I take that into the field for hunting too.
So I like to zero my rifles at one hundred
yards and have it set on my scope with a
zero stop all the way down. That way, if I
was shooting at something at four hundred and fifty yards

(06:20):
and I forgot where I was at, I can go
all the way to the bottom and come up right.
So you want to do like three shot group, you know,
fire at least three shots, don't just fire.

Speaker 6 (06:30):
One or two and think, oh, I'm good, do a
good three shot group.

Speaker 5 (06:33):
And you know, my dad taught me how to shoot.
You know, we walk up to the target and we
would connect with a pen all three of those shots.
Like connect the dots right, you make like a triangle.
The center of that triangle in theory is where the impact.

Speaker 6 (06:48):
That's where you have to.

Speaker 5 (06:49):
Kind of put a little dot in the middle of
those three those three dots there, those three holes. Then
you're just kind of measuring the distance between you know,
that spot and the center of the target. And then
you know, if you have a quarter minute of angle scope,
you should be able to you know, say you have
your four inches to the left, well that's you know,
it's four clicks per inch, so you know about sixteen

(07:11):
clicks is what you're going to have to do there.
You know, at the at the danger of doing math
in public, I believe that's a correct number there.

Speaker 6 (07:18):
But honestly, you know.

Speaker 5 (07:20):
Sometimes you know, in the seal teams, we always like
to make weird. Our instructors always made us through bold adjustments.
That way, if we went farther than we were supposed
to go, we could just do a percentage back that way,
you know, if you're having like you're not really sure
if you're going left or right, or if you're really
moving when you made bold adjustments, you know, sometimes we'd

(07:42):
go twice as far as we needed to go that way,
we just cut.

Speaker 6 (07:44):
It in half and you're right there in the center.

Speaker 3 (07:46):
You know.

Speaker 5 (07:46):
One of the problems I had this past couple of
weekends ago with my son were citing in his rifle.

Speaker 6 (07:52):
It was taking the cement site in. I remember this.

Speaker 5 (07:54):
Old, old old school way of zero and getting on
paper quick. You pull that bolt out of your bolt
action and you put it on the sand bag and
looked down the Yeah, we don't you don't really need
to let that yeah. So you know, I can't tell
you how many times I've done that off a sandbag,
looked down the scope, looked up and adjusted it to this.
You know, I basically lock it into a sandbag, put

(08:16):
that target in the center of the barrel, looking down
the barrel, and then look up at the site and
I'll move it until it's dead center. I can't tell
you how many times I've put when I lock and
load and.

Speaker 6 (08:26):
Fired that first shot dead center, dead center.

Speaker 3 (08:30):
How delighted you talked? About that. I'll tell you what.

Speaker 6 (08:32):
That's boresighting. That it's finest, Yes it is.

Speaker 3 (08:35):
You know what we used to do? Was it night?
Because it gets seemed more fine on it with a candle.

Speaker 6 (08:40):
Oh okay, and that's the way.

Speaker 3 (08:43):
I learned to do it. That's crazy.

Speaker 2 (08:46):
I can't believe that's still that thoughts even out there
with all this boresighting machinery all today.

Speaker 7 (08:51):
But say, full cavy, that's what we're going to do
for you, and shop too. That technology has come a
long way for bullets, but that way is not broken,
the boor side of white rifle.

Speaker 6 (09:00):
Yeah, well, you know, on on. So the next step.

Speaker 5 (09:04):
Once you're zero at one hundred yards for most applications
for deer hunting, you're good, right thirty. You know, if
you can get a two hundred yard target out there
and check and just see where you're at at two
hundred yards that way, you know, you know, okay, I'm
a couple of inches low at two hundred yards, So
if I zero at two, that's fine. But if you
want to take a step farther. You know, Truman and

(09:25):
I both have this new garment.

Speaker 6 (09:28):
It's like a radar.

Speaker 5 (09:29):
Well, it measures how fast it's like a chronograph, but
it uses radar, and it's the size of like a
go pro camera and it sits in front of your
your rifle. If I'd have had that in the team's
it would have made life so much easier because you
can now caveat full cavear. Here is that you know,
firing rounds is no, it is not gonna It's not

(09:50):
gonna replace firing firing rounds on the range and getting
actual dope, right, we call it dope dad on previous engagements.
You have to steal fire your rifle, but we can.
We can build you a ballistics chart on your phone.
There's apps on your phone. If you can get your
rifles zero at one hundred yards and you know how
fast that bullet's going and how much it weighs, your

(10:11):
phone will automatically connect to your barometric pressure and all
this stuff and you can hit first round impacts one hundred,
two hundred. Well, once your zero at one hundred two
three four out to however far out, your rifle is
going to go supersonic because once that bullet slows down
to supersonic, most bullets, you know, the sound catches up
with that bullet. Sure right, and that's when you have

(10:33):
that sonic crack. And when the sound catches up to
eleven hundred feet per second roughly. You know, imagine a
football that you've thrown on a perfect spiral.

Speaker 6 (10:43):
Once that that sound.

Speaker 5 (10:45):
Catches up to that bullet, it causes that nose to deviate, right,
So it's spinning on a perfect axis until the sound
hits it. And now that that nose starts to wobble
around and around and around, and now it starts to
look like you're you know, look, you're five through the ball.
And by the time that happens, it's still spinning. There's
no way for you to guesstimate which way that bullet's

(11:06):
gonna go.

Speaker 6 (11:06):
It's gonna go that general direction.

Speaker 5 (11:08):
But you know, that's why you have to know how
far your bullet's gonna go supersonic, all right, if that
makes any sense.

Speaker 2 (11:14):
Well, it's way beyond my ability to comprehend.

Speaker 5 (11:18):
I know, we're getting beyond the deer, honey, No, But
knowing the capability of your rifles and.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
Don't this is good stuff because this is where technology
comes into playing in TRIMID. I will defer to you
here at a second, but this is The reason that
I love Subsidic twenty two's and the suppressed loads and
stuff is because speed is not everything, and so heavier

(11:43):
more stable. Yeah, for me in the hunting field, it's better. Yeah,
generally speaking.

Speaker 6 (11:51):
To back off of that.

Speaker 7 (11:51):
I mean, he's talking about shooting a thousand yards when
we're shooting subs. We're shooting maybe two hundred yard max.
Because that bullet just drops off and falls.

Speaker 2 (11:59):
Yes, sir, this technology he's talking about, tell us a
little more about that.

Speaker 3 (12:03):
That's crazy.

Speaker 7 (12:04):
I'm learning a lot of it myself. I don't have
the shooting background that Aaron has, unfortunately, but it's a
game changer for me because I can kind of cheat up.
Not to his level, but it gains me access to
get closer to him quicker he can shoot our guns in.
It's given us how fast that bullet's going. Just like
you said, there's a bullet coefficient. I can type it

(12:25):
into my phone on an app and it'll tell me
exactly what he said. This is where I should be
at two three, four, five hundred yards.

Speaker 3 (12:31):
That's crazy, yep.

Speaker 6 (12:33):
On your cell phone.

Speaker 3 (12:34):
Yep.

Speaker 7 (12:34):
And if you have a zero stuff like he's God,
you just do the clicks and you're there.

Speaker 6 (12:37):
I'll tell you a story real quick.

Speaker 5 (12:39):
When I was back in two thousand and six seven
when iPhones came out, I didn't know an iPhone. I
had a flip phone, and I'd.

Speaker 6 (12:47):
Gone to a shooting school and the sea team.

Speaker 3 (12:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (12:51):
Well, I'd gone to a shooting school and the seal
teams where.

Speaker 5 (12:53):
They had this this fancy ballistic calculator, and I went,
you know, I learned that man, if I can just
figure out the speed of that book with the weight
of that bullet and the barometric pressure and temperature and
all that, that can get nats. But at one thousand
and two thousand yard, I mean, it's really it's all science, right, externalistics.
So when I saw that there was an app on
my on these iPhones that my friends had, I hadn't

(13:15):
had yet, I bought an iPhone simply because.

Speaker 6 (13:18):
Of the ballistic app that was on it. That's what
I got me into.

Speaker 5 (13:27):
So that's what sold me on Apple was the fact,
like it's by a ballistic or get a you know
ballistic app on my phone?

Speaker 2 (13:34):
Yes, sir, well, uh so what are your guys thoughts
about sighting it at fifty just I know you mentioned, Yeah,
the lower yard is, but well for kids, they are
getting I and thedn't extend app That's my question.

Speaker 5 (13:50):
A lot of people are shooting the R fifteen right right,
you know, a few zero at two hundred yards. The
natural ballistic of an AR fifteen round two twenty three
round it's it's technically stilling at fifty yards and it
balances back out on that same plane at about two
hundred yards. So in theory you're going to be between
fifty and two hundred, a little high between fifty and

(14:11):
two hundred, but you know, it's not that big of
a deal.

Speaker 6 (14:14):
You should if you zero.

Speaker 5 (14:15):
At fifty with a with a rifle like that, technically
you should be the three away.

Speaker 3 (14:21):
The reason I'm asking this is my own ineptitude. I guess.

Speaker 2 (14:26):
I would say, honestly, I've had a whole lot easier
to get nat'sass accuracy at fifty that.

Speaker 5 (14:32):
I do, and that's probably going to be a really
realistic impact for shooting a deer to fifty to one
hundred yards.

Speaker 6 (14:39):
That's what I'd say.

Speaker 5 (14:39):
Most people are comfortable, you know, their rifle is very
much capable of a three hundred yard shot. Most people
won't take it unless they can see the whites of
the deer's eyes, which is a smart thing.

Speaker 2 (14:49):
That's absolutely But your thoughts about that where you get
really tight at fifty? Yeah, where would you say to
sight in? Would you have a nuts, would you have
a inch high low? What would you do with the
thirty cows which is what got shoot?

Speaker 5 (15:06):
Yeah, I'll take it out to the range and shoot
it at fifty and then I would get a hard
point on where it's going to impact, you know, two yards?

Speaker 3 (15:12):
Yeah, okay, I.

Speaker 5 (15:13):
Would I would actually go shoot it and see what
it did, because every barrel.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
Yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely have to. Well, there's so much
ground we got to cover to night. Yeah what well, Scott,
you got any thoughts at this point that you will interject?

Speaker 4 (15:28):
I sure do, because the fifty yard zero is getting
to be a really popular topic right now.

Speaker 8 (15:35):
And what we can do to help people is this.

Speaker 4 (15:40):
If you sit in a rifle at fifty yards, a
lot of times if you just go straight to one
hundred yards from fifty, it's not uncommon for that gun
to be anywhere from six to eighteen inches high.

Speaker 8 (15:54):
So you're left and right, which is your windage.

Speaker 4 (15:56):
Is really good to control up close and what really happens,
and where Aaron talked about the one hundred yard zero.

Speaker 8 (16:03):
What's so important.

Speaker 4 (16:04):
Is cite that gun at fifty, then go to seventy five,
and then go to one hundred, and then come back
and shoot at fifty.

Speaker 8 (16:13):
And what you'll.

Speaker 4 (16:14):
Realize is that ballistics calculator and that chart, and it's
on most hunting m rounds anyway, when it tells you
that it's going to be a half inch low or
you know, a quarter inch high or whatever at fifty rounds.
At fifty yards, depending on the caliber, the gun has
pretty much balanced out. And so it's really important to

(16:35):
take that gun to a hundred yard zero if you
do tend to think that you'll be somewhere between that
fifty and one hundred yards. But what Aerin was saying
is if a realistic shot is fifty yards and then
by all means that that will be fine. That means,
in my opinion, that gun's been zeroed at fifty yards,
and if you're not going to shoot past that, you're
finding that bullet is going through physics. There's some geometry there,

(17:02):
and there's just some things going on with WIN two
and depending on the clarity of the scope and what
power you're siting that scope in can make all the
difference in the world and how high or how low
that bullet's going to impact as.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
Well well, the the scope distance from the barrel can get.

Speaker 6 (17:19):
How high is that scope off the barrel.

Speaker 2 (17:21):
That could be the big variance that I think speaks
mostly to what you're talking about there, Scott, because there
are big variations and that all these things are averages.
And I guess it gets back to what Aaron's spoke to, shooting, shooting.

Speaker 5 (17:36):
The damn gun dope you know, gets your dope, that dope,
previous engagements, Yes, sir, Yes, sir Truman, you got anything
to have that conversation?

Speaker 7 (17:45):
No, just piggybacking off of that fifty yards zero, Like
Scott said, to go back out and see what you're
going to shoot in at fifty yards after you have
it sighted in for one hundred or two hundreds, because
you might have to take that shot. And it is
really nice to know where it's going to shoot at
fifty if you have to take that shot, there's no doubt.

Speaker 4 (18:00):
Yeah, And before we close up here going into the
break gym, most everybody out there no matter if it's
a thirty caliber round two, forty three, six point five
creed more, any of the new PRC rounds.

Speaker 8 (18:14):
Most folks will be very.

Speaker 4 (18:17):
Comfortable with a one point five inch high zero at
one hundred yards, so that they are going to be
somewhere on that zero to two hundred yard efficiency there,
and that should bring them in most most calibers, not
our thirty thirties or forty fives, but they should be
right there on a two hundred yard zero to inch
and a half hight one hundred er.

Speaker 6 (18:37):
Yeah, now you're right. I agree, man, A bet on
that one.

Speaker 2 (18:41):
All right, folks, I'm going to go to break here.
This break is resigned by mostel Properties Heart Realty.

Speaker 3 (18:47):
Paul Thomas is a broker.

Speaker 2 (18:49):
He's got all kind of outdoor properties, lake cabin front
homes for sale.

Speaker 3 (18:55):
Check them out an m O p h A R
T Realty dot com.

Speaker 2 (19:01):
All right, folks were talking about deer rifles, deer sighting in,
deer ammunition, everything. Tonight we got two very special guests.
We've got Aaron Reid, who is a Navy seal sniper farmer.
He's also a state senator by the way. And we've
got Truman Kilburton, who is at op Supply, which is

(19:22):
the outfit that Aaron operates out there in Simpsonville, Kentucky.
If you have not been there, you need to go
because they got everything you need for guns and archery.

Speaker 3 (19:35):
Guys.

Speaker 2 (19:35):
Before the break, we were talking about sighting in and
zeros and that stuff, and back in the day we
were laughing about this and it was my day. Oh,
if you could hit a pipe hat played at a
hundred yards, you were ready to go. No, you're not,
that's stupid. Let's get rid of that one. Aaron, you
had a couple thoughts you wanted to continue with about

(19:56):
how to sight in.

Speaker 3 (19:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (19:57):
You know, something that my dad always force to me
was the importance of marksmanship.

Speaker 6 (20:02):
Right. It's not simply get the right gun and get
the right ammo.

Speaker 5 (20:05):
And you really need to pull that trigger effectively as well.

Speaker 2 (20:08):
You know.

Speaker 5 (20:09):
One of the things that he always told us is
the acronym brass b R A S S right, and
that means breathe, relax, aim site, squeeze that trigger, right,
And that something that I can hear my dad saying that,
right it again, breathe relax, aim, site, squeeze that trigger

(20:32):
until it breaks. Right now, It's also important that when
you're citing your rightful and you gotta have a good
steady position, a good steady platform. If you're shooting off
a fence post and wobbly or whatever, I mean, if
that's all that you got, you gotta do what you
gotta do. But if you're controlling the situation by all means,
get some sandbags and lock that rifle down tight, and
that way you're really getting good information and when you've

(20:54):
squeeze that shot off, it's going to be as accurate
as possible.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
Well, too many people think by citing it off the
stump post or whatever, that will transfer to game, and
that's not the point.

Speaker 3 (21:06):
It's the opposite what you mentioned.

Speaker 2 (21:08):
If you could get finite on the range, then when
you go the fence post.

Speaker 6 (21:12):
You got a market eliminate all that you can get clo.

Speaker 3 (21:18):
All right, it ain't met on that one. All right. Uh,
let's talk.

Speaker 2 (21:22):
About sculpts a little bit, uh, because the power you
site in with can vary things a little bit.

Speaker 3 (21:29):
And talk about that because that's.

Speaker 5 (21:33):
Your Well, you know, there's lots of scope options these days,
and Truman will tell you all the different brands that
are out there. Man, I tell you, I like, I
don't really care to have a very high powered scope.
I like to have, you know, you know, I tell
you it's it's come from most you know a lot

(21:53):
of combat shooting at a lot of competition shooting.

Speaker 6 (21:57):
Is I like to have. I don't I need a
lower power scope.

Speaker 5 (22:00):
I like a one to four or a one to seven,
one to eight, you know, that's good.

Speaker 6 (22:04):
I like that one part.

Speaker 3 (22:06):
You know.

Speaker 6 (22:06):
If I can get a one to ten, that's great.

Speaker 5 (22:08):
I just like to be able to dial it all
the way back to one so that when I'm walking
through the woods or whatever, I can when I throw
it up there, I can see everything, you know, and
if you get if you get like a you know,
like a I don't know, a ten power fixed scope,
you're stuck on that ten.

Speaker 6 (22:28):
And if you get something that starts high.

Speaker 5 (22:30):
I just like to be able to see, you know,
in that front that front area, what's the on the
on the front end of your scope.

Speaker 6 (22:37):
You know, a lot of scopes are what forty milimeter.
I like to get a fifty six.

Speaker 5 (22:42):
You know, the bigger the better, because the lower light
you get more light in there and you can see.

Speaker 6 (22:46):
I just like to be able to see my target.

Speaker 5 (22:48):
You know, we talked earlier about radicals, lit lit radicals
and all that. The lit radicals awesome, it's good for
low light stuff. And you know, this kind of extends
your time and kids. When you're shooting with the kids kids,
you really want to have a lot, you know, make
it easy for them to see. You want to have
the you know, like a red dot. Like when I'm

(23:11):
training my kids to shoot for the very first time. Man,
I could throw that red dot on there because they
like to see that bright red dot.

Speaker 6 (23:17):
And it's just it's just good visual. That makes any sense.

Speaker 3 (23:22):
It makes a lot of sense. And I guess really that.

Speaker 2 (23:25):
Leads to a big discussion area trumans, these red dots
and stuff.

Speaker 3 (23:33):
What that's done in the scope world.

Speaker 7 (23:35):
The biggest thing is that they've connected it over to
magnified optics. You know, your red dot's great, it's just
one power.

Speaker 3 (23:40):
You're stuck.

Speaker 7 (23:41):
You're can add a magnifier, but now you're fixed at three.
This is a time zoom. We've talked with Scott before.
Having an illuminated radical is a game changer. It's great
for getting kids into shooting. But it's great for us
and old eyes as well.

Speaker 6 (23:55):
Yeah, old eyeball, Yeah, old eyeballs. It is a game changer.

Speaker 2 (23:58):
Well, let's talk about in a little more detail. What
exactly does it give you?

Speaker 3 (24:04):
Why are you keen on it?

Speaker 5 (24:06):
It just extends your hunting time, I think too. I
don't know, man, I can notice that in my mid
forties to late forties here my eyeballs are not what
they once were, and I like to be able to see.

Speaker 6 (24:16):
I don't like there to be any issues.

Speaker 5 (24:17):
You know, these new scopes there's a lot of tick
marks in there too, unless you just get a regular duplex.
But now you get these trimmer and what's the forest
radical and all that you ever heard of? Those looks
like Christmas basically. Yeah, you're sighting in and you're setting
it at one. You're not adjusting your scope. You're kind
of doing holes and it's really hard to low lights

(24:39):
see where all those tick marks are.

Speaker 6 (24:41):
If you can brighten it.

Speaker 5 (24:42):
Up a little bit with a radical like that, it's
kind of a game changer.

Speaker 6 (24:45):
But again, you have to go to the range and shoot,
that's the thing.

Speaker 5 (24:48):
And you know, then we have all these different scopes
out there where you have front focal plane and second
focal plane. You've probably heard this, Oh yeah, you know,
And if you're going to use.

Speaker 6 (24:58):
A scope that has ballistic.

Speaker 5 (25:01):
Compensated tick marks on it, you're gonna really want to
use a first focal plane or front focal plane.

Speaker 6 (25:06):
That really just means when you.

Speaker 5 (25:08):
You'll notice if this is how you can tell if
you have one of those or not when you change
the power adjustment knob.

Speaker 6 (25:15):
As you're turning it.

Speaker 5 (25:16):
If the if the radical grows bigger as you're zooming in.

Speaker 6 (25:20):
That means it's staying at the same ratio, you know.

Speaker 5 (25:23):
I mean, so the if you're looking at if if
a deer is five tick marks, that you know, when
you're looking at your scope and you've got it on
one power, and if you zoom in it to like say,
ten power, and it's still going to be five tick marks, right,
it's gonna be the same side. It's gonna get the
ratio on those on that ballistic that radical is gonna
be the same. So with a second focal plane, when

(25:45):
you zoom in, the radical stays exact same size and
you can't really use it for a ballistic type purposes.

Speaker 2 (25:53):
Well, I am old school three benine guy. Yeah, with
the thirty cows. Yeah, I mean that's what I grew
up with, et cetera, and I am a you know,
straight radical guy. But the things that you are mentioning
obviously coming to big play nowadays. What are some of
the companies and or innovations that you would point to

(26:19):
for people to consider if they're going from what I
shoot or what you know, the average guy had on his.

Speaker 3 (26:25):
Rifle back in the day. Moving forward, Truman, I'm gonna
pull the average Yeah.

Speaker 7 (26:28):
So the thing that's come the furthest along would be glass.
Quality of glass they're using nowadays. You've got glass in Germany,
China and Japan, and Germany and Japan are above China,
of course. But you know, Vortex is using the normal
glass on a Vortex scope now is ten times better
than your grandpa's bush now on is thirty thirty Okay,

(26:51):
lower light at the end of the day, it's pulling
in more light so you can see a better picture
out of that scope. Doesn't matter what radical you're using,
it's just pulling in more light, which is the name
of the game.

Speaker 2 (27:02):
Well, there's an old saying, I don't know that I
totally agree with it. But it's better to spend a
lot of money on optics than it is on the rifle.

Speaker 3 (27:11):
Yeah, because rifles in the old day, it's hard to
do it. But it is.

Speaker 6 (27:16):
It's a smart move.

Speaker 3 (27:17):
Yes, is it still a smart really? I think it's
more soldier day, do you guys?

Speaker 6 (27:22):
It's easier to spend more money on them nowadays?

Speaker 3 (27:24):
Too?

Speaker 2 (27:26):
Well true, But but is that really at the end
of the day, what you guys.

Speaker 7 (27:31):
Think it is, that's the biggest device you're using to
you know, take that white tail down. You know you're
not using ironsights, You're using that scope. You should spend
real good money on it and make sure you've got
a great piece of glass on your weapon.

Speaker 2 (27:41):
All Right, I'm gonna pin you down a little bit.
Somebody walks in the shop. I've got a thirty out six,
you got a three to eight, you know, name the brand,
it doesn't matter. I'm gonna put some optics on it.
Where are you going to lead them?

Speaker 3 (27:55):
We're gonna give them bang for the buck.

Speaker 2 (27:57):
And give them what you know is reliable and you
know is gonna perform best in the field.

Speaker 7 (28:03):
What would you tell the Vortex crossfire two is the
most popular scope out for a reason. It's because it
gets the job done. Okay, if you're looking for more,
we can show you loophold. It brings in that illuminator
radicle that we were talking about, has a fine duplex.
Their fire dot has just a small dot on the
center of that duplex. It illuminates game changer. But if

(28:23):
you don't want to spend nine hundred dollars on the scope,
that crossfire too. At dollars, it's unbeatable.

Speaker 6 (28:30):
It's unbeatable.

Speaker 3 (28:33):
Guess what saw both my rifles seventy Crossfire two. No
I am I.

Speaker 2 (28:42):
I don't get any money from them, but my boys
got Crowler and put me on them. Yeah, Scott, this
is where you get into the game. You led me there,
and there's good reason, right.

Speaker 4 (28:52):
That's right, And and probably for a person who is
really consciously looking at optics. And if you start buying
a lot of guns, you got to start buying a
lot of optics, right, So she has a phenomenal line
in their Buckmaster class of scopes. The cross Fire to
in my opinion, is worth the extra forty or fifty dollars.

(29:15):
More importantly, it's worth the time to go in and
see Aaron and Truman to get not only the right optic,
but to get it mounted properly. That goes back into
our I can't tell you how many times I've been
on a gun range with somebody with a Walmart gun
and the base comes loose or the rings come loose,
just in a sychn end process.

Speaker 8 (29:36):
But we're always focused about low light.

Speaker 4 (29:38):
And one advantage to going to a fifty millimeter is
that you can get a whole lot of light gathering
capabilities and save yourself a whole lot of dime on
a scope.

Speaker 8 (29:47):
And I'm not saying that to take away from ops.

Speaker 4 (29:50):
Supply, because they are a service to people, But that
fifty and fifty six milimeter objective that's out there now,
as long as you can.

Speaker 8 (29:57):
Get a good cheek, well it's really good.

Speaker 4 (29:59):
But I'll I want to focus about something too with
our optics, not just the fast target acquisition with the
red dot, but if eye relief ever becomes a problem
and people don't see that full diameter through that scope too,
that red dot really shines in That red dot cannot

(30:19):
only help in low light, that can help in extreme light,
like if you're out into the full sun at certain times.
But don't overlook the importance of a sunshade with a
rifle scope, because if you're hunting with the wind in
your face, there's so many times that the sheen or

(30:39):
the shine off of the barrel, or just the sun
itself can be so powerful that you'll go to look
through your rifle scope and you can't even see your
radical because you're not utilizing a sunshade. I recommend everybody
keep one in their deer hunting backpack.

Speaker 3 (30:57):
I agree.

Speaker 7 (30:58):
Most manufacturers are sending them with their optic now too,
so just put it on there if you got it.

Speaker 3 (31:01):
Especially Yeah.

Speaker 5 (31:03):
Actually I've actually had to make them before with a
with a little bit with some paper and a rubber bands.

Speaker 3 (31:10):
I hear you.

Speaker 6 (31:11):
You can't do that too well.

Speaker 2 (31:12):
And back to this optics deal and what's available today,
I'd say, I don't know seventy percent of the deer
I've ever shot with a rifle, we're at low light,
either morning or evening.

Speaker 3 (31:28):
That's when big bucks move. Yeah, you know, those not
so much.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
But you know, I guess where I want to enter
into this conversation is if you're looking for that deer
of a lifetime, which most of us. Are you better
have optics that will let you do it right? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (31:46):
Yes, And back to Aaron's point with that one powered
scope for our young listeners out there, folks that just
don't know, the lower that you go on your magnification,
the more it's going to help you at the start
of your hunt and at the end of your hunting
a day during those low light conditions, you always want
to turn your magnification down and low light, not turn

(32:07):
it up.

Speaker 2 (32:08):
Yeah, And I always start with it down and I
crank it up if I need it. Have another thing
that I think we ought to talk about here, because
it's there when you need it.

Speaker 3 (32:18):
Well, a low range deer is.

Speaker 2 (32:21):
More relaxed and less likely to spook if you need
to move it, you know, if you need to move
your hand up there to do it. So that's another
thing to bring into consideration, because at the lower power,
like Aaron says, you can see more, you can gather
more light, all the things that come into play when
when they're a close range and you want to reach

(32:42):
out and kiss someone. As I'd like to say, so, well,
anything else here, guys, in the realm of scopes we
want to talk about because.

Speaker 6 (32:52):
It's about mountain scopes at all.

Speaker 5 (32:55):
Yeah, you know, one of the things that that people
overlook is you know, I heard Skar I said earlier
talking about setting up that Walmart rifle. You know, and
if they don't always get mounted right in the factory,
you know that you really you start from the bottom.
You put that base on there and make sure you
got the right base, and make sure you've got some
good screws.

Speaker 6 (33:14):
And what I always used.

Speaker 5 (33:15):
To do in the seal teams is we would use
the what's that cleaner that stripper that it cleans all
the oils out like a brake cleaner.

Speaker 6 (33:22):
You get some brake.

Speaker 5 (33:23):
Cleaner in there, clean those holes out with break cleaner
before you put the screw in there. If there's lube
in that in that hole, it could work its way
back out.

Speaker 6 (33:33):
I kind of if you're kind of.

Speaker 5 (33:38):
Differently, well, I don't like to use lock tight, but
if I have to, I will. But if you just
simply you know, if you clean those up, use the
brake cleaner and clean those holes out before you put
the screws in. They don't keep it tight once you
you know, we use those those wheeler torque ranches that
you can buy just for mounting scopes, and you know,

(33:59):
you pick out your.

Speaker 6 (34:00):
Rings, make sure you got some good rings. And I'm
on the fence on that lapping.

Speaker 5 (34:03):
You know, you can lap your rings, which means you're
basically kind of evening it out, so it's perfect in theory,
perfectly straight. But I tell you I've lapped them too much.
I've had them to where you can't even tighten them
down anymore. It'll your scope will actually slide in those
rings if you lap them too much.

Speaker 6 (34:20):
So you kind of, you know, you kind to.

Speaker 5 (34:22):
Balance it out there if you've got if you've got
good rings, you won't need to lap them hardly at all.
But you know, you throw that scope in there and
make sure you're using your your wheeler tork cranch with.

Speaker 6 (34:34):
The specified foot pounds.

Speaker 3 (34:36):
Yea.

Speaker 7 (34:37):
All the instructions they get, they get them for a reason.

Speaker 5 (34:40):
Yeah, I want to OVERTRK or under torque and then
you should be good. I have a good start there
and on a on a winning recipe.

Speaker 2 (34:47):
Okay, uh, Scott, you got some comments about mountain scopes.

Speaker 4 (34:52):
Man, Just what Aaron's talking about that machining and that
tool and die work, and not only that a lot
of these rifles are coming to us through cargo containers overseas,
and some manufacturers go to excessive amounts of oil use,
in my opinion, to keep those rifle scopes, or to
keep the rifle barrels and actions and all that from rusting.

(35:14):
So before you go to the range, it's good just
to break your gun completely down and give it a
good initial cleaning, and that goes all the way into
the bore, just knowing how your firearm works with the action.
But I see too many times where people strip stuff
out because they don't start things with their hand, or

(35:36):
they do not realize their feeling. You don't have a
lot of threads, And nothing's worse than having to walk
in to see somebody like Truman where you've stripped something out,
especially with the way that society works today. If they
wait till the last minute, there you are and you
need something retapped, and you've got a problem there, But

(35:57):
it it. You know, there's no secret aerin and trimming
they advertise on the show. But there is a reason
why you need to go to somebody like Truman if
you don't know what you're doing and watch them do
it and understand what torque and leveling and all of
that stuff is and take advantage of things. Don't overlook

(36:21):
how much improvement has happened in rings and basses and
with a lot of these new calibers that we'll get
into later. Even this is the fact that we've got
into to a base now that you can mount your
scopes onto that have several different settings. Instead of just
a traditional weaver style or whatever, you can really get

(36:42):
to where you can play with eye relief and move
that scope forward and back and always set that scope
up to the person who is going to be using
the gun. So if you're focusing on your wife or
your kid or whatever, make sure before you lock everything
down that that I relief is definitely set to them,
because that's who's important, is the person who's shooting the firearm.

(37:05):
And that's a that's a very overlooked step that I
see a lot of people take sometimes.

Speaker 2 (37:09):
No doubt, no doubt, got to go to break. Break
is presented by SMI Marine or eleven Foreign in Westport Road,
just north of the Gene Snyder. Go see it and
take great care of you. You never get soaked by
my friends at SMI. All Right, folks. Again, we're talking
deer hunting, optics, ballistics, ammunition, everything tonight, dear season is

(37:30):
oppon us here right down the road. Uh guys, let's
talk about IE relief in the scopes and checking I
relief and maximum magnification.

Speaker 3 (37:42):
What are else thoughts there?

Speaker 5 (37:44):
It's just something that you got to keep in mind
when you're setting up your scope for the first time.

Speaker 6 (37:48):
You know who's gonna be shooting it.

Speaker 5 (37:49):
Try to get them in the right position that you
think you know that they're going to be in while
they're pulling the trigger and get.

Speaker 6 (37:56):
A good you know, make them move the scope and say, okay,
that's that's where I need to be. Yes, Scott, hit
it great.

Speaker 7 (38:02):
You know, whoever's going to be using that gun needs
to be the one there when you're putting the scope
on the weapon.

Speaker 6 (38:08):
All these scopes nowadays have.

Speaker 7 (38:09):
Extra eye relief built in by you know, pulling that
eyepiece towards you. But if you can pull that scupe
back without doing that, you're way better off.

Speaker 3 (38:18):
Okay, okay, very very good. Bullets.

Speaker 2 (38:26):
I want to talk bullets here because it's all over
the map anymore. And that's mainly honestly a money deal
with ammunition companies. Something newer has got to be better
this and that. Aaron, I want to start with you
and the reason why, good Lord, With the amount of

(38:47):
shooting you've done, it's amazing to me that you were
taking to school a little bit when you went to Africa.

Speaker 6 (38:53):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:54):
But conversely, you've been a dear hunter, a small game
gay and you were a sniper, which obviously you were
hunting the enemy. Yeah, but you go to Africa and
you went thinking one thing and it was another. Talk
about that because the lead into good discosut and about
killing deer.

Speaker 6 (39:13):
Sure, you know, you know, depending on what you're going after,
what you're.

Speaker 5 (39:16):
Trying to put down with that bullet, you know, the
whole point is to put it down quick and effectively, right,
So you know, if you're you're talking about dangerous game,
if you're talking about you know, in the military, you know,
we shoot bad guys and you know, sometimes we're shooting deer.
So it's it's so many different bullets out there that
you can get. And you know we're talking about you know,

(39:37):
you brought up the fact that I went out to
Africa and I was hunting Kate Buffalo with my dad
and I'd always read and you know, having been in Alaska.
I lived in Alaska as an instructor, as a ceil
instructor up there, we had solid projectiles to help put
down dangerous game. And when I got there, the professional hunter,
you know, the pH you know in Africa, was telling

(39:58):
me like.

Speaker 6 (39:58):
Oh, no, man, you know, we don't. I don't. I
don't like those solid projectiles. I want you to.

Speaker 5 (40:03):
I want you to shoot it with this soft point
or you know, something like that, because he wanted to.

Speaker 6 (40:07):
Have a really big blood trail to.

Speaker 5 (40:10):
Follow an event that you know, he put one down
and he said, if I was shooting the solid projectiles
or the bonded type rounds, then you know it might
go all the way through. But sometimes they don't leave
as good of a blood.

Speaker 3 (40:22):
Trail, and one doesn't do the shot damage.

Speaker 6 (40:26):
And doesn't do the shot.

Speaker 5 (40:26):
Yeah does the bullet doesn't perform inside like like you
wanted to do to be effective on the kill. You know,
I shot my buffalo about seventy yards out and the
only ran about thirty yards, so I couldn't argue too
much with him, you.

Speaker 2 (40:39):
Know, and right that guy when I squirrel had, Yeah,
I shoot subsonic hollow point bullets.

Speaker 3 (40:47):
I don't shoot solids.

Speaker 2 (40:49):
Reason being obviously, I like to head shoot my squirrels
when I can. I like to terminate life as officially
mainly as it can. Yeah, not to get overboard about that,
but with deer, I like maximum thump on that deer
to where it's gonna terminate its life quickly. And this

(41:09):
lease's discussion about bullets because there's bonded bullets, there's copper jacketed,
there's soft noses, all this serious. I'm gonna turn to you,
guys lit turn it. I'd like to thought of you
on this because you deal with it a lot. What
are your thoughts about this?

Speaker 7 (41:27):
For deer, well, I'll share exactly what we just talked about.
Jim says he's got two seventy he's hunting with it forever.
He likes Federal fusion, which is a great bullet. He
asked me why he should change, and honestly, he shouldn't.
It works great for him. He should stay with it.
Federal is making a higher line out. They have their
you know, the one we've been pushing lately is their

(41:48):
terminal scent. But for a two seventy two forty three
three o eight. You're not gaining much. Did they change
the bullet? It's a bonded bullet. It's not doing what
you wanted to do anyway.

Speaker 3 (41:58):
Uh.

Speaker 7 (41:58):
They created that line for arger calibers, really bulked up
the case there for calibers that need that. But honestly,
if if you've got a bullet that works for you
like that federal fusion, don't change it.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
Well, what are your thoughts about what will do the
maximum life terminating? I don't know how else to say it,
because we're trying to be as humane as we can.
It's not that we're talking about, you know, anything other
than killing humanely, which is our job as hunters. What
are your thoughts about what bullets perform best in the

(42:32):
thirty caliber range?

Speaker 7 (42:34):
It's definitely the soft point still still yeah, it's still
the soft point.

Speaker 3 (42:38):
We're still not moved past.

Speaker 6 (42:39):
That remiton core lot Federal power show up.

Speaker 3 (42:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (42:42):
I mean they've been around forever for a reason.

Speaker 5 (42:44):
They're affordable, good penetration, you know, proving yeah, proven performance.

Speaker 6 (42:49):
Yeah, wellhy change it if it's not broke?

Speaker 4 (42:50):
All right, Scott, Well, your cupping core bullets is what
you're talking about.

Speaker 8 (42:55):
Federal Fusion really changed the game. And I will say that.

Speaker 4 (42:59):
If you're firearm will shoot the Federal Fusion, then by
all means, I think it's probably the best all around
round where someone in the state of Kentucky, as long
as they traveled to another state where they didn't have
to follow any type.

Speaker 8 (43:15):
Of regulations with a.

Speaker 4 (43:17):
All copper bullet, I think Federal Fusion has just been
remarkably favored by its performance.

Speaker 8 (43:25):
Now when it.

Speaker 4 (43:26):
Comes to ammunition, nothing will ever ever fill the place
of aocracy, and how your AMO shoots goes back to
where we started to program. And when you go to
the range, try to find you some cheaper ammunition to
get it on or get it close and then start

(43:47):
citing your rifle in because.

Speaker 8 (43:49):
You can read all you want on the box.

Speaker 4 (43:53):
You can pick the box with the fanciest marketing campaign,
but the rifle will let you know what they like.
And we're getting anywheres now from four inch groups out
of guns to groups that are clover leafing and touching
just based on the ammunition. So as long as you

(44:15):
stick with that basic cupp and core bullet, your job
now is to try a box of the Winchesters and
the trybox of the Hornades and the Federals, and then
see what they like to shoot, and don't get so
caught up. Either your gun may shoot one hundred and
eighty grain bullet better than it does one hundred and
fifty grain bullet, but don't think that that thirty grains

(44:37):
difference is going to make all the difference on the
world on whether or not your trophy buck's going to
collapse right in his tracks or you're going to salvage
a little bit more meat off of the dose that
you harvest. You need to understand too, based on where
you want to shoot deer, we'll determine on what bullet
type you want to shoot. And if you are more

(44:59):
of a Marx and you really want to get into
that shoulder and bone contact, then you can start getting
a bullet that's been bonded or is a little bit harder.
But we all miss our mark, and that's something that
we've got to remember that we're.

Speaker 8 (45:14):
Trying to make an efficient shot.

Speaker 4 (45:17):
And when you have that hydraulic energy that does that
terminal damage to gain. If you're off your mark one
or two inches, are you happen to pull the shot
or you've got a new hunter in there. I would
much rather have a rapid expansion and explosion of energy

(45:37):
and be able to put that deer down and find it,
versus worrying about if I'm going to lose a pound
or a pound and a half of meat because of
the type of bullet that I use.

Speaker 2 (45:47):
Yeah, amen on that, and Aaron's got a bunch of
points to cover on that.

Speaker 3 (45:52):
I'm gonna go to break here real quick.

Speaker 2 (45:54):
This break is presented by Montiel Property's Heart Realty. Check
out all the current listings an mop h a r
trealty dot com.

Speaker 3 (46:03):
Herman, I got a question for you, buddy.

Speaker 2 (46:05):
Yes, sir, it's a hard one, honestly, but it's straight
from the shoulder. If someone walked into the shop you carry.
How many brands do you all carry that?

Speaker 7 (46:14):
We carry the four major brands, Federal, Remington, Winchester, Horned Day.
We carry some lower lines, the cell, your bellet, I
Gilia Fiochi. But our two top sellers we sell the
most of and it's getting the job done. Is that
Horned Day, American white Tail for deer, and that Federal
Power Shot that old blue box they've had forever.

Speaker 2 (46:33):
Okay, so if the guy walked in the shop said up, Truman,
set me up. Those are two you yeah, you tell why.

Speaker 7 (46:41):
Because they get it done for my customers, they come
back and buy more.

Speaker 3 (46:44):
Okay, yes, sir, fair enough far.

Speaker 2 (46:46):
And you had a point of reference about twist and
some other things.

Speaker 6 (46:50):
Well, yeah, you know we're talking about barrel twists. You know,
common mistakes.

Speaker 5 (46:55):
You know, hunters will kind of I need a bigger bullet,
you know, I feel like I needed this deer down,
you know, a little more efficient, but buying heavy bullets
for more knock down power without checking if their rifle
twist can can stabilize it. That's that's something that a
lot of people don't think of. You know, think of
twist rate like matching tire tread.

Speaker 6 (47:15):
To road conditions.

Speaker 5 (47:17):
If you're using the wrong twist rate for your bullet weight,
you know your groups are going to open up. You know,
the bullet won't even fly true if it's It's typically
one of the easiest problems to fix and one of
the most overlooked. And you know, like at AR fifteen
rifle barrel, you know you're looking at about typically one
to ten to one and twelve twist barrel. That means

(47:37):
that the bullet inside that barrel twists one complete rotation
in ten. If it's a one in ten, that means
one twist and ten inches. And you know the rill
of thumb is that, you know, when you lower that
second number down to like a one in seven for
a bigger bullet. I know, we were shooting seventy seven
green bullets, you know, out of our M four rifles

(47:59):
for a long range and typically the average military guy
shooting a fifty five to a sixty two grain bullet.
And you know, it's much more versatile if you're at
the one and seven twists and to get on twist,
I mean some of the crazy stuff that's out there
right now. The company Q that folks are seeing, they
have a couple of different rifles out there queues like

(48:20):
an ar company, and they are fifteen company, but they
also have really gotten into engineering and they're really pushing
the limits. They've got this new round called the eight
point six Blackout, and that eight point six blackout they're
using a one in three twist barrel, which is insane,
but you're talking about a you know, a two hundred
and eighty five three hundred grain bullet, So the heavy

(48:42):
of the bullet, the tighter the twist that you want,
so it stabilizes that heavy bullet as it's flying. If
you open it up, or if you try to shoot
a lightweight bullet through a really high twist, you know,
the bullet could come apart. If it's not you know,
it's not really a strong projectile. So you kind of
have to know what the twist is. It's it's something

(49:04):
that people overlook because they just take for granted that
your rifle can shoot every kind of bullet.

Speaker 2 (49:08):
Well, I will be brutally honest here to my own detriment.
You're talking above my pay grade.

Speaker 6 (49:13):
Well, we're getting the ballistic. It's gotten butts.

Speaker 2 (49:16):
That's a good thing. So what bullets and what twists
the most modern day rifles, everyton whatever come with. And
what's your recommendation for the average because.

Speaker 6 (49:29):
Yeah, you know, like a three oh eight one and
twelve twist is about right.

Speaker 5 (49:33):
You know, you're looking at a one forty seven to
one sixty eight grain bullet, it's about right for three
oh eight you know, two forty three shoots a one
in ten typically, and you're looking at a seventy to
eighty five green bullet if you want to get into
six you know, sixty five Creed Moores, you know, one
in eight twists is what they're running on. And you
know those are everybody knows are really flat shooting around,

(49:57):
you know, talking about bullets, you're not going to get
any really heavy bullets with the sixty five, But you
can use the ballistic tip.

Speaker 3 (50:02):
You know.

Speaker 5 (50:03):
That's one thing that we haven't really talked about. The
ballistic tip is kind of a it's kind of like
a hollow point with that little plastic tip in the
front and rapid expansion because there's usually a lot.

Speaker 2 (50:15):
Now, what are the thoughts about that, because I've I've
pondered that a lot for deer.

Speaker 3 (50:20):
Well, so it's a.

Speaker 7 (50:21):
Great crossover from the target world into the hunting world.

Speaker 3 (50:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (50:25):
Yeah, that's a good accurate round.

Speaker 3 (50:27):
You know.

Speaker 5 (50:28):
It's good for for deer, antelope and smaller game at
longer anges. I wouldn't take it, you know, for anything
big like an elk or bigger right right, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:37):
Okay, I probably shouldn't say this, but I'm gonna because
we're in a new era.

Speaker 3 (50:46):
Used to be if you had a kid, it was
two forty three or six of them because recall, yeah,
that was my era. Those days are gone.

Speaker 6 (50:55):
So many options, let's start to discuss them.

Speaker 2 (50:58):
We're going to continue with because are great for the
ladies too.

Speaker 3 (51:01):
Let's start that discussion.

Speaker 7 (51:03):
Okay, Well, there isn't a true caliber. It's not a
two forty three. This is what you need now like
it was back in the day. Now you can adjust
the rifle and take a lot of this recoil out
of it via.

Speaker 6 (51:14):
Suppressors or just.

Speaker 5 (51:17):
Flash hiders, silencers, oppressors, they take it.

Speaker 6 (51:22):
That's where to talk about that later.

Speaker 2 (51:24):
Yeah, okay, but let's talk about this caliber, yeah, page,
because you can get the performance of a bigger caliber
with the recall of those lighter rifles in my era.

Speaker 3 (51:36):
Yeah, let's go with that. What what do you recommend?

Speaker 2 (51:39):
What what are some calibers you like with suppression and
these new loads.

Speaker 7 (51:44):
Three O eight has been around forever and its stayed
around somehow through all this, Right, you can.

Speaker 3 (51:50):
Get where you can get ammunition everywhere you can for
three O You.

Speaker 5 (51:54):
Got a lot of my guys are shooting three hundred
blackout too. Yeah, you can shoot supersonic inner blackout and
they hammer pretty good. It's about the same ballistics like
a thirty thirty or you know, a not quite as
good as a three eight a little more power in
three o eight, but or an ak even a seven
point sixty two by three nine the three hundred blackouts
a thirty caliber bullet. And if you're shooting, you know,

(52:16):
up close, you can you know, we're gonna talk about
here soon about these suppressors coming around and being a
lot more prevalent. Man, it gets really nice to shoot
a quiet bullet, Yes, but for the youth. I hear
it again and then and then't. Yeah, it's goes.

Speaker 2 (52:33):
You think a guy walks in your shot, woman that's
got a son, or a woman walks in says, I
don't like to recall blah blah blah, what would you
point them towards?

Speaker 7 (52:42):
So I'm pushing sixty five and three o eight the most.
Right now, we're still selling two forty three.

Speaker 6 (52:48):
You don't hear me wrong.

Speaker 7 (52:49):
But with the right muscle device on there, you're getting
less recoil than the two forty three with the standard
barrel on it.

Speaker 3 (52:54):
Yeah, there's the key. I'll throw last two fifty.

Speaker 5 (53:00):
Really, man, that thing is smooth. Yeah, it's a very
fast round. It hits, it hits him hard. My dad actually,
when we're in Africa, the pH let it loan him
a twenty two two fifty with suppressor on it, and
he killed an impalla with it and it was so devastating.

Speaker 6 (53:16):
I was just very impressed.

Speaker 2 (53:18):
Well, Scott, I know this is a real big topic
with you your thoughts on this.

Speaker 4 (53:25):
Everything right now still brings us back to the pillar
and the basics of the three oh eight case and
all the wildcat realms and the history of ammunition and
ballistics it. You know, find what is affordable, find what
will give you time on the range. Three oh eight
is a very affordable round. It's very easy to find,

(53:47):
and it does have a little bit more smack to it.

Speaker 3 (53:50):
Right.

Speaker 4 (53:51):
But here's the thing that shines as we developed through
this program tonight, Truman's going to be able to put
you in a three oh eight, possibly even change the
stock out as this person that.

Speaker 8 (54:04):
You've bought it for gets bigger.

Speaker 6 (54:06):
But because the fact.

Speaker 4 (54:07):
That you're shooting suppressed, you're starting to eliminate felt pounds.

Speaker 6 (54:11):
Of recoil there.

Speaker 4 (54:13):
There's so much It happens on the shoulder and I'm
two hundred and forty pounds to two hundred and sixty
five pounds, depending on which month of the year you
weigh me. I like lower recoiling rifles because I've become
more efficient on the range and I've become a better
shot when I put more time behind my glass and
my rifle instead of worrying about thumping something and thumping

(54:36):
myself at the same time.

Speaker 3 (54:38):
Well, I'm the same way.

Speaker 2 (54:39):
You know, I shot shot guns professionally for decades, and
I'm a little flinchy, don't I don't like that kick,
and I found out I don't need to endure it
to kill deer very efficiently or else.

Speaker 4 (54:52):
So six PRC and seven milimeter PRC don't need to
be overlooked.

Speaker 3 (54:58):
Agreed, Okay, very good.

Speaker 6 (55:00):
So you're not could be liking that that fifty BMG we.

Speaker 2 (55:02):
Got, no, sir, I'm not gonna like the outside even
gonna try it, all right, Coach, gotta go break break
presented by Marine. Go see them you never get sold
at SMI all right, guys, we're back. We were talking
about a couple of rounds there, Truman by what's the break?

Speaker 3 (55:22):
And I want you to expand on that a little.

Speaker 7 (55:24):
Bit, So Scott chimed in with that six five PRC,
seven PRC, three hundred PSC. These are all great rounds
that Horny Days come out with, great for long range
rounds and the three hundred PRC. Another cartridge that I
like that Hornaday come out.

Speaker 6 (55:38):
With is the Arc rounds.

Speaker 7 (55:40):
They're more for smaller game, but they can get up
in there to the white tail and there is no recoil.
It's perfect in an ar. They make a lot of
lightweight rifles. It's great to get a kid into. And
like I said, Hornaday's pushing the amo, so you know
it's gonna be.

Speaker 3 (55:54):
Everywhere crossovers for Kyle.

Speaker 2 (56:01):
That's gotten so big and that god it has because
one of the best things that's ever happened for small
game and deer and turkeys. Yeah, just getting guys out
here killing the hell out of Kyle. They eat every day,
like you said, Yeah, buddy, they do. They eat every day,
and what they eat is something that we like to eat.
That's where the rubber meets the road. There are weapons

(56:23):
and or calibers that will do both very very well.

Speaker 7 (56:25):
Yes, sir, trimming well, Aaron already started with twenty two
two fifty. It's a great KYO round. It is pushing
that bullet so quick. It does very a lot of
damage to that kylet and puts it down. I'm a
big fan of the six millimeter arc that I was
talking about. They've basically taken an AK round and next
it down a six millimeter So it is pushing a

(56:47):
smaller bullet quick. It's got a lot of umph behind
it so and no extra recoil add it because of it.

Speaker 2 (56:54):
See yeah, ars for youth to etc.

Speaker 3 (56:58):
Talking about that a little bit, you beat it. I
don't know, That's why I'm asking. I don't know if
they're very.

Speaker 6 (57:05):
I know they're gergonomics.

Speaker 3 (57:07):
Yeah, they're great.

Speaker 7 (57:08):
You can take that butt stock in and out to
fit a kid, even if they've got that big jacket
home which they're going to so you can move that
stock in one notch. Very ergonomic, Very relatively lightweight, you know,
don't load it up with all the accessories. You can
just keep it lightweight for hunting. But no, they are
perfect good.

Speaker 6 (57:27):
Yeah, on something you.

Speaker 4 (57:29):
Can I mention something real quick too about these rounds
as we're on it.

Speaker 3 (57:33):
Please.

Speaker 4 (57:34):
I don't think people have become better shooters. I think
we have gotten better optics and better rounds and and
no matter how much hate the six point five creed
More gets, if you'll do your homework and go in
and utilize customer service from Truman, you can put youth
in two twenty three and six point five rounds that.

Speaker 9 (57:54):
Will absolutely devastate white tailed deer. It's all about the
right product, not just the right gun. It's not just
the sell of the gun. It's the service that you
get afterwards. And when Aaron was talking about that zero stop,
Aaron can reach through the phone line right now and
choke me, but that zero stop, you can actually have

(58:17):
your gun zero to two different ammunitions. And we can
do in a more advanced program about it sometime. But
it's bad if you don't get in the habit of
going back and fixing your dope or taking it back.

Speaker 8 (58:29):
To your zero.

Speaker 4 (58:30):
But really try to find around and keep things simple
that gives method, you know, and try to find around
that you can shoot long range with and try to
find around that will perform if you need to use it,
And try to find around that will work for you
as not only a target load but also a whitetail load.

(58:50):
In today's world, that's so easily done. And that was
my comment that we're not better shooters, we have better options.

Speaker 6 (59:00):
Yeah, don't disagree at all.

Speaker 2 (59:02):
No, you're right, Well, most of us don't have time
become as proficient as as the weapon we shoot.

Speaker 3 (59:11):
That's what it gets down to.

Speaker 2 (59:12):
The technology today and the bullets and everything are so
advanced that very few of us will ever reach the
peak of perfection to match the dagog.

Speaker 4 (59:22):
All these special jim we're able to site in that
an inch and a half high and if we don't
get it too complicated, basically you can take something out
to four hundred yards with a six and a half
inch drop And yeah, I mean that's that's where we're
at today. It used to be the three hundred wind

(59:42):
bag was the big rifle. And don't take anything away
from a three hundred wind bag because she's a she's
a performer in so many ways. But when you can
shoot a firearm that's enjoyable, that not only performs on
the range, but performs in the field, that is, you know,

(01:00:03):
light recoiling and affordable as far as the ammunition for
the most part, and keeping things simple and to have
the ability to take that gun across any part of
the country outside of the white tail season here in
Kentucky or Indiana, then there is really I mean, I
hate to say it, Aaron, because I want you to
have good business, but one firearm can do a man

(01:00:25):
or a woman so much more now than what it
used to be able to do. And that's that's something
that folks just need to understand.

Speaker 8 (01:00:33):
It's it's being.

Speaker 4 (01:00:34):
A student of ballistics and firearms that it pays off
so many dividends.

Speaker 5 (01:00:40):
Yeah, but you know, how many people are ever really
going to admit that they have.

Speaker 6 (01:00:44):
Too many guns?

Speaker 3 (01:00:46):
Not me, you know, I mean their wife that Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:00:53):
Yeah, Men in firearms is like you know, almost the
Amazon and and email connection. It's it's not bashing either gender.
It's the conveniences and the blessings that we've been given
in modern times.

Speaker 6 (01:01:08):
Oh yeah, like having a golf bag.

Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
Each club does a different thing, you know, Trimer, we
had someone that reached out to us.

Speaker 3 (01:01:19):
About a question. What was it? It was sco Yeah,
sco pipe.

Speaker 7 (01:01:23):
How high that scope is sitting off the weapon?

Speaker 3 (01:01:25):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:01:26):
And what does that do one way or another? Can
you well, gosh, I.

Speaker 5 (01:01:30):
Can key in on that a little bit, sco pipe,
you know, like well, let's start up with AR fifteen.
Since round AR fifteens, you know, typically you're looking at
two and a half to three inches of scope pipe.
Basically it's the center of the crosshair to the center
of the bore or the chamber rrect and ideally, if
you shooting a bolt action rifle, you want an inch
and a half. That's typically the average, and if you're

(01:01:53):
going to go higher than that, it's it should only
be because your objective on your scope is real big,
you know, like you have a fifth your fifty six
or a millimeter objective on the front of that scope
that you know, if you got if you throw some
some low rings on there, it's probably not gonna fit.

Speaker 6 (01:02:09):
The scope is going to touch your barrel.

Speaker 5 (01:02:10):
So that's why you got to bump it up to
a you know, to a medium or even high.

Speaker 6 (01:02:15):
I hate using high.

Speaker 3 (01:02:16):
I do too. I'm glad you said that. I'll give
you an example.

Speaker 2 (01:02:20):
Yeah, you remember back in the day where you go
to your site, or you should go to your scope.
I dealt with that for about two months and I
threw that thing in the garbage.

Speaker 3 (01:02:29):
Oh yeah, I mean.

Speaker 6 (01:02:30):
If you look underneath the scope.

Speaker 3 (01:02:32):
Yeah, I've senior sights. I was like, yeah, wait a minute,
that's one of the open you kind of need to
go in one way or the other.

Speaker 6 (01:02:39):
I get it, crazy, I get it.

Speaker 5 (01:02:41):
But you know, with it's important to know your scope
heipe when you're using these ballistic computers, because that's one
of the big aspects of that.

Speaker 6 (01:02:49):
You need to type into your computer to get it right.
If you if you're off.

Speaker 5 (01:02:52):
By you know, an inch on your scope pipe for
whatever reason, and you know it's really going to throw
you off by like maybe a couple feet. I mean
it could be substantial past three hundred yards. So you know,
another thing with AR fifteens at like three inches scope height,
if you're shooting like a like an aim point or
an eotech or some kind of red dot optic. You know,

(01:03:13):
when I tell my seals this when we're shooting, is
that we'll get up close.

Speaker 3 (01:03:16):
Like you know, if you're in.

Speaker 6 (01:03:18):
A building you're shooting it.

Speaker 5 (01:03:19):
You know, at a target, you're probably going to hit
you know, probably several inches lower. I mean, you're always
going to hit low because your your optic is up here.

Speaker 6 (01:03:29):
And your rifle is down.

Speaker 5 (01:03:30):
Yeah, you're you need to know that when you're shooting
that you're going to be shooting quite a bit lower,
so you know, I like as close to the gun
as possible, like with bolt action. You know, if you're
shooting like your standard what is the standard objective? Is
about what forty or forty millimeters and then you get
to fifty and you get the fifty six is the typical, you.

Speaker 2 (01:03:50):
Know, across the board for the average person. This is
a program closer to the barrel, closer the better, always
the better, almish cool, most as you can get without
touching the barrel. Yes, yeah, absolutely, all right, I'm gonna
go over to break on that. Coming back, we got
some last minute tips. I think you already really like this.

(01:04:10):
Break is presented by Most Properties Heart Realty. Paul Thomas
is a broker all kind of outdoor properties for sale.
Current listings are availed, but m O p h A
R T Realty dot Com. Okay, gentlemen, best for last suppressors?
What they will and won't do? Why do you recommend them?
Your thoughts? Well, Aaron, I'll start with you.

Speaker 5 (01:04:33):
I've shot suppressors on all my sniper rifles in the military,
and I love them. You know, I like the I
like the quiet. You know, especially when you' shooting something
like a fifty caliber or something like that that intense.

Speaker 6 (01:04:47):
It really dumbs down the blast.

Speaker 5 (01:04:49):
It makes it a lot more palatable for youth and
ladies and man, I just I just love it. I
like the you know, there's there's there's lots of lightweight
tit cans out there that you can get. Now, I
will tell you one thing. Don't just throw a silencer
on their suppressor. You know, people get kind of wrapped
around the axle on the terminology.

Speaker 6 (01:05:09):
I call them silencers whatever.

Speaker 5 (01:05:11):
But uh, because but it doesn't really silence it to
a you know like you would think in the movies.

Speaker 6 (01:05:15):
It's still loud.

Speaker 4 (01:05:16):
You know.

Speaker 6 (01:05:16):
When my son shot.

Speaker 5 (01:05:17):
His his butt in Youth Weekend, he had a silencer
on there and they heard it back at base camp
a couple hundred yards away. So it's not like a
like a super quiet deal. It just makes it more palatable.
And one thing to remember when you're citing in your
rifles is if you're if you're planning on carrying a
rifle with a silencer, you know, make sure you zero
with the souncer on it. Because I've seen some pretty

(01:05:39):
dramatic dramatic shifts in zero because of just adding.

Speaker 6 (01:05:45):
A suppressor to it. So, you know, that's just one
thing I would do.

Speaker 3 (01:05:50):
Talk people through that process and everything that goes with it.

Speaker 7 (01:05:53):
So the process, they've made it a lot easier, luckily
for us. Also want to add that starting January first,
there will be no two hundred dollars tax stamping it
big beautiful bill, Big beautiful.

Speaker 6 (01:06:04):
Bills killed that. There is still registration.

Speaker 7 (01:06:06):
You do have to come see your local class three
FFL dealer, but you can do it one stop shop.

Speaker 6 (01:06:12):
Every guy.

Speaker 7 (01:06:13):
Everybody's set up to take care of you. When you
come in that first time. There's no you know, by today,
come back, see this and get fingerprints, do this registration.
It's a five to ten minute process. Now they've really
simplified it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:25):
Well, thank goodness they did, because it was a bit
of a nightmare.

Speaker 7 (01:06:29):
Yeah, dealing with the government's never fun.

Speaker 2 (01:06:31):
Well, I'm one of those guys. Excuse me, I'm going
to shy. I just you know that's not my deal.
Go age z on what they will realistically give you
and what they want give you.

Speaker 7 (01:06:43):
So realistically, just like Aaron said, they're not always going
to be movie quiet. You can change your the grain
weight of your bullet. If you're shooting twenty two, you
can get it very quiet, nine mail forty five, get
it very quiet if you shoot that heavy load. But
if you're shooting a two U two three, it's gonna
make it hearing safe to where you don't have to
use hearing protection.

Speaker 6 (01:07:04):
It's gonna sounded like a twenty two.

Speaker 2 (01:07:05):
You know a lot of guys tell me that's the
main reason they've gone to.

Speaker 3 (01:07:09):
It, Yeah, is for their ear protection.

Speaker 7 (01:07:11):
Well, I've got young kids and they won't shoot on suppress.
Now we can talk to them. We can have this
conversation right here. Yeah, so you know, there's no they're
not afraid to pull that trigger.

Speaker 6 (01:07:21):
There's no jump anymore.

Speaker 5 (01:07:23):
I've got a sound throw on my fifty cow now, yeah,
I tell you it makes it a dream and shoot
you're fifty out.

Speaker 6 (01:07:30):
They've got them for a shotguns.

Speaker 10 (01:07:33):
What you know, I'm curious about that. What does it
do with shotguns? It takes all that noise out. I mean,
so everybody grew up shooting shotguns. They can't hear out
of the left ear very well. What you say exactly?

Speaker 7 (01:07:45):
So I grew up shooting I started when I was
ten or eleven, and I do have a substantial hearing
loss because of it. So you're you're gonna save hearing
for the youth and for us now still, uh, out.

Speaker 2 (01:07:57):
Of curiosity, because you really tweaked me there with a
shotgun ones that do to its performances.

Speaker 7 (01:08:03):
I haven't shot a lot of suppress shotgun yet.

Speaker 2 (01:08:05):
Sadly, I want to see what that does, because I'll
definitely go to it. If it doesn't alter what I do,
I'd go to hart.

Speaker 7 (01:08:11):
What does it change the point of impact on the shotgun?

Speaker 3 (01:08:14):
No, I haven't.

Speaker 5 (01:08:14):
I haven't shot one yet, so I don't know, but
i'd say that the shotgun's probably pretty close the same
you're shooting, you're shooting nets.

Speaker 2 (01:08:22):
Well, yeah, I hear you, all right? Any uh real quick?
We got about two and a half minutes. Yeah, any
closing thoughts to deer hunters?

Speaker 5 (01:08:31):
Sure, you know, I tell you there's nothing there's not
a better feeling in the world than being out there
and pulling the trigger on that monster buck and watching
it drop.

Speaker 3 (01:08:42):
Right. Amen.

Speaker 5 (01:08:43):
So all these things we just put out, I mean,
these are all tied together on how to make that happen.
So I mean, you try to get rid of those
one percent things that lead.

Speaker 6 (01:08:50):
To you know, to failure.

Speaker 5 (01:08:52):
You know, you try to do everything you can do
because nothing I mean with my kid out there that
you know, he the deer didn't drop, so we had
to track it and it was worries. But when you
see that deer drop, dude, it's so much better. You know,
it's not just about hitting the target. You know, it's
about doing things right, staying sharp, and passing that mindset
onto the next generation of hunters and shooters.

Speaker 3 (01:09:13):
Well, and here's the deal.

Speaker 2 (01:09:17):
You have a responsibility to the gaming hunt to kill
it efficiently. We never want to see things wind it
or suffer. And so to your point, which is spout
on trimming he closing thought you got.

Speaker 7 (01:09:31):
I can't say it better than Aaron said it, but
I will say I think majority of what we said
comes down to just get out there and shoot your gun.
You know, the more practice you put into something, the
better you're going to be.

Speaker 3 (01:09:40):
Always.

Speaker 7 (01:09:41):
I mean, what makes a better day than going out
and shooting your gun.

Speaker 6 (01:09:44):
It's the most one you can have Still to the.

Speaker 3 (01:09:46):
Day, folks, this is funny.

Speaker 2 (01:09:48):
Aaron just picked up my TA ring that is on
by stuff about truck and everything.

Speaker 5 (01:09:54):
What's to say, Eric, It says the future of hunting
depends on me and folks.

Speaker 3 (01:10:00):
That is in my pocket every day. It's the reason
I do radio.

Speaker 2 (01:10:04):
It's the reason I love doing radio, and it's a
reason that I love doing with guests like this, Scott
closes out.

Speaker 4 (01:10:11):
Make sure you're taking and putting a cleaning kit in
your truck before you head the deer camp. Make sure
that you put that firearm in a very good case.
It's nothing wrong to have a good soft case and
a good hard case. It'll pay off in the long run,
trust me. But last, but not least, Jim Straighter and
Aaron and Truman, keep that firearm no matter what calbird

(01:10:35):
is unloaded, going up and down out of an elevated
shooting position, whether that's in a shooting house or a
tree stand, and control that muzzle.

Speaker 8 (01:10:45):
We need to keep everybody safe out in the field.

Speaker 2 (01:10:49):
Amen, I'm gonna add one to it, and those are
all excellent. Don't ever let anybody hand you a firearm
and tell you it's not loaded. You deck it yourself.
Been there, done that, and it's had bad results for
me and both of work in gun shops and et cetera.

Speaker 3 (01:11:06):
So great show tonight, guys.

Speaker 2 (01:11:08):
I thoroughly enjoyed this, hoping the educational for everybody will
be here next week same time. Good Night, everybody, God
bless and please be safe out there.

Speaker 6 (01:11:17):
God Bless American