8-17-25 Value of Outdoor Land and Timber

8-17-25 Value of Outdoor Land and Timber

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(00:23):
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(00:44):
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Speaker 2 (01:01):
Good evening, everybody demonstrator here and welcome aboard the demonstrator
Outdoors tonight. We got a great program for it. It's
a little different, but it's something I think it's going
to be a tremendous interest in insight for the listenership,
and that is we're going to talk about timber and
timber management, which for those of you folks out there

(01:21):
that own land, or those of you that perhaps access
properties and are trying to help that land owner their skin,
what their timber's worth, where the markets are, whatever the
case may be. We got David Toxin Cox Forestry here
and he's going to talk in depth about the markets
and things you can do to maximize your growth and

(01:42):
or profit potential off your timberlands. Second, I we're going
to talk with Paul Thomas for most ilk properties. Hearts
relative about things people need to know about buying honey
and fishing properties, what to look for some of the pitfalls,
and our ways to help marrrow your search on exactly

(02:04):
what you need if you're looking for a lakefront home,
a wildlife management property or farm. So these are some
great topics that I think will interest you all. And
it's fascinating to me because there's a lot of twists
and turns to these things. Unless you know them going in,
you may not like the outcome. So I'm gonna go

(02:26):
to break right here. This break is presented by SMI Marine.
Go see them. They got great deals and incentives on
the twenty twenty five boats. The twenty twenty six models
are getting ready to roll in. Remember you never get
soaked by my friends at SMI. David, I guess let's
start with the obvious question, which is where is the

(02:49):
timber market right now? What species are hot? Give us
your thoughts about how you can help people understand perhaps
what they have that's you boom wow the uh.

Speaker 3 (03:03):
Right now, the standing timber market, when you talk with
the landowner, you're talking about stumpage prices.

Speaker 4 (03:09):
That's what standing timber is sold at.

Speaker 3 (03:11):
So that's what the landowner the amount of money that
they're getting is known as the stumpage price.

Speaker 4 (03:15):
And right now stumpage prices are good.

Speaker 3 (03:19):
And you're you're seeing a lot of competition in bidstale,
so you're getting a lot of bids in and the
people are paying you know, good money for standing timber.

Speaker 4 (03:29):
Still there.

Speaker 3 (03:31):
There's been some corrections in species since the a Covid
boom or a Covid bubble market where big box stores
couldn't keep lumber in there.

Speaker 4 (03:42):
The demand was so high. And at the start of
it all people were very cautious.

Speaker 3 (03:49):
Mills didn't want to have a lot of logs on
hand because I thought there might be a decline, and
instead it went insane and drove timber to the highest it's.

Speaker 4 (03:56):
Ever been or lumber and.

Speaker 3 (03:58):
Uh also in Kentucky always got to take in the
bourbon market, and the bourbon boom has come back too,
so you have seen a reduction in prices on timber,
but more of a correction. Like the the markets are
still good and they were just at an all time
high and I think they're coming back to about where

(04:20):
they need to be. One thing that you always have
to take into consideration in Kentucky is the bourbon industry,
like I said, and that is so with.

Speaker 4 (04:28):
With white oak.

Speaker 3 (04:30):
White oak prices are still white oak is selling good.

Speaker 4 (04:33):
But stave mills have our closing pretty much. In the
bourbon industry, there was a huge demand for it.

Speaker 3 (04:43):
They made a lot of bourbon and they have a
lot of bourbon sitting in warehouses and bourbon takes years
to age, so when they see the demand dropping and
they had this huge supply.

Speaker 4 (04:56):
They pretty much cut off, you know, making new.

Speaker 3 (04:59):
Barrels was cut off completely or not completely, but there's
a drastic reduction quickly. So when that happens, it can
send ripple effects through other markets with white oak. And
when you if you're selling your average white oak, you
always had an outlet to a stave mill and they
were paying sometimes more than veneer.

Speaker 4 (05:19):
But with the reduction in that, you you start seeing a.

Speaker 3 (05:22):
Lot more lumber or logs that were going into the
stave market going to lumber mills, which reduces you know,
it brings down the price for a great lumber white oak.
So it hasn't it's not something insane that to worry about,
like you know, I mean, depending on who you ask,
it's obviously you know, it's ruffled feathers amongst you know,

(05:44):
the the industry. But it was bound to happen, and
bourbon will stave logs will be valuable again. I mean,
there's still a demand for bourbon. They just have such
a big inventory right now that I think in the
short term. I think it's more of a short term that.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
What are the big money loves right now?

Speaker 3 (06:04):
It's white oak is still your big money log and walnut.
The veneer is selling really well. Great lumbers selling good.
There's hard maple, which is sugar maple, and that's that's
moving great. That's gonna go into cabinet, tree furniture. It's
getting everything has a good demand. The tie market so

(06:25):
like railroad ties, cross ties for that, you're looking at
red oak, kickery, white oak. The tie market's good. The
palette market's pretty good, which is going to be the
higher logs and you know, lower quality species. Hope market
is good. So everything hickory maple, they're red oak. Years ago, yeah,

(06:48):
I'd say probably twenty eighteen nineteen, it was it was
getting really hard to sell. But red oak has come back.
You know, it's it's not what it was in the
eighties and nineties. But I never experienced that. I'm too
young for that. It's Uh, it's moving good. Everything's moving good.
You're you're getting interest in all of your bid sales.
There's you're getting bids in and uh the stumpage prices

(07:10):
are are are good right now?

Speaker 2 (07:13):
Good? Uh, Scott, I know you've got some things on
your mind to ask you.

Speaker 5 (07:19):
There's so many families that have a connection to woodlands,
and a lot of times I don't think a lot
of folks understand how this economy, in the economic sector
of the forest industry can play into effect. So, David,
for somebody that's out there and they've got some land

(07:40):
in their family and they may not even reside on it,
how can the timber market be similar to the stock market,
and why do they need to pay attention to what's
going on with trends and demands.

Speaker 3 (07:57):
Well, anyone watching a market or the nose markets knows
that trying to time it can usually get you into trouble.
But I would say watching watching the timber market is
not really watching the timber market timber. They're both the
timber and the stock market are driven by supply and demand.
You know, something different with timber than a stock market

(08:19):
is you can't just unload it overnight if the price
is falling.

Speaker 4 (08:22):
You can't just up and sell your.

Speaker 3 (08:23):
Timber because but on the other end of that, the
market will always rebound. And timber is something that when
if there is a drop in the market price, at
least you're still growing. You're you're putting on volume and
value every year that that timber is still growing.

Speaker 4 (08:40):
So even though the.

Speaker 3 (08:41):
Demand might be down, when it recovers, your asset is
going to be more valuable than it was, you know,
when the demand was high before, if that makes sense.
So I think that's a big difference in stocks are
a lot more liquid than timber can be, you know, overnight.
But timber is something that appreciates with time, regardless of

(09:07):
if the market is down or up.

Speaker 4 (09:09):
It's still gaining value in volume every.

Speaker 6 (09:11):
Year, no doubt. I know.

Speaker 5 (09:13):
With a lot of the recent storms, especially the amount
of tornadoes that have had impact in Indiana and Kentucky,
there's been a lot of folks talking and they've more
or less been set back.

Speaker 6 (09:27):
They were not prepared.

Speaker 5 (09:29):
A lot of folks weren't even honestly insured to the
right amount of value. They didn't understand how much that
value of that timber was until it was actually lost.
Are you seeing or hearing more talks of people wanting
to know about how they need to cut their timber
or have a better management plan, or even being insured

(09:51):
as some of these storms have popped up With your
practice and.

Speaker 3 (09:55):
Work, personally, I haven't seen an increase, but I mean
I'm a forester, so like every single day is somebody
calling me about timber one way or another.

Speaker 4 (10:08):
I I know that.

Speaker 3 (10:10):
If you own timberland and you see it as an
asset and something that you want to manage, then it's
always important. It's important to have an inventory and know
your species composition and your volumes, and from all that
information you get the value of your timber. So at
the heart of it, knowing what your value is out there,
if that's you know, if that's if you're seeing it

(10:31):
as an asset, definitely, it's definitely something important to be
knowledgeable of if you if you own it and you're
worried about storms coming through or Yeah.

Speaker 5 (10:44):
Do you see much difference David, between the markets and
the customers that you work with the landowners from just
crossing the river. Do we see any advantage or disadvantage
right now as far as maybe being in southern Indiana
versus and sections of Kentucky.

Speaker 4 (11:04):
Uh, there's.

Speaker 3 (11:06):
There's I mean, there's areas where competition is going to
drive There's a lot of competition in southern Indiana and
there's there's a lot of great timber there. So anytime
you get more competition, it's gonna drive stumpach prices high.
But Kentucky has this. You know, Kentucky has areas with
a lot of competition too. Stumpage prices in Kentucky.

Speaker 2 (11:25):
Have been good.

Speaker 3 (11:27):
There's certain regions with less mills around where you can
you know, you might have to work harder to get
the stumpage price that you're looking for from a sale.
But that's not something that changes overnight. Uh, you know,
it's the way that regional markets.

Speaker 2 (11:47):
David, this is a question a lot of people have
thrown at me. I know an easy answer to it.
But the flooding that we had around the reservoirs where
there's a lot of public land, the red lines around
lakes like bear Rough River, et cetera. Never in my
lifetime have those trees been underwater the way they have

(12:10):
for months on end. The question I've asked a lot
is are they going to be sustainable with the oaks
and the you know, the red oak and white oak
and the mass bearing trees. Are they capable of during
that or what are your thoughts on that.

Speaker 3 (12:27):
I think mature trees should be able to hand. They're
going to be pretty flood tolerable. Like there, I'm marking
timber right now, right down on the red line in
rough River, and I haven't seen anything that's been too alarming.
I think younger sapling trees are typically more susceptible to root,
drown and floods, but most along those areas, at least

(12:50):
areas that I'm working there, there are species that are
they grow in floodplains and there's a reason they're growing
there and they can handle that. So I would think
the mature timber it's not something to really worry about
if there's been water up on the on the stump
for too long. And the areas you're talking about, I'm.

Speaker 2 (13:07):
Really glad to hear that, because obviously that's a that's
a resource that a lot of hunters used, you know.

Speaker 3 (13:13):
Yeah, I mean, if let's say, worst case scenario, there
was like some natural I guess it's natural or not,
whatever way you want to look at it, considering the
corp of engineers the one holding the water back, But
it would just mimic a natural disturbance if something died.
There's always if you open up a bunch of sunlight,
that's always a corridor for invasives, but you're also going

(13:34):
to get some good regeneration from letting that light come
down in. So, say you did have some some areas
down in h below the red line where you're seeing
some timber die back. Uh, you could there there's gonna
be some new habitat that comes, you know with that.
So and you never were going to cut that for
timber money anyways, because you know a lot to.

Speaker 2 (13:55):
Well and frankly, you know my travels, what I'm seeing
die most of cedar and a lot of that seat
was older. It was the shading stuff out. It wasn't
really the bigger benefits that you wanted.

Speaker 3 (14:06):
So as you yeah, that's not something that's typically growing
down in floodplains, so they might be more susceptible to it.
I guess they are more susceptible to it. And there's
not much you can really.

Speaker 2 (14:20):
Do well, but the secession of growth that will come
back probably helped the wildlife as much as anything.

Speaker 4 (14:25):
Yeah, it'll all just mimic a disturbance. Cool.

Speaker 2 (14:28):
Cool.

Speaker 7 (14:31):
Can you tell folks exactly what you at cos Forestrys
can do to help plan those maximize the value had
or the sustainability of their timber.

Speaker 3 (14:44):
Well, as far as maximizing value timber, you actively managing it,
getting a management plan, and inventory in there so you
can focus on your high quality trees, what species are
growing on your property.

Speaker 4 (14:56):
If it was something that was high graded in the past.

Speaker 3 (14:59):
You might have a lot out of hard maple around
and you want to You might want to get more
oaks growing in there, but it takes years to do that,
so you might want to if you're focused on making
money off the timber, you need to you might need
to work with the maple.

Speaker 4 (15:16):
You so from.

Speaker 3 (15:18):
Maximizing growth, you're working with the management plan for maximizing
value in an actual sale, just knowing the markets, knowing
exactly what you're selling. I think the biggest thing people
want to work with forresters about is they want.

Speaker 4 (15:32):
To sell timber.

Speaker 3 (15:33):
They don't want to get ripped off, and they want
to be They want a nice stand of residual timber
left behind. They don't want everything cut, and there's right
ways and wrong ways to do that obviously, foresters. That's
what I went to school for civil culture is is
that the civil culture is the practice of manipulating the

(15:53):
forest to do what you wanted to do.

Speaker 4 (15:57):
And that's that's the biggest.

Speaker 3 (16:00):
Force is going to help a landownder, especially when it
comes to harvesting timber is helping them maintain stand that
is aesthetically pleasing, is that that's accomplishing their goals and
also maximizing value when they're actually having their timber sale.

Speaker 2 (16:14):
I run into a lot of people, it's got you
do too, who overlook the fact that this force that
they've got or they old, you know, this pieci of round.
They say, it's so pretty. I don't want to disturb it.
I don't want to cut it. But in many regards
that can be short sighted thinking, can it not, especially

(16:36):
in terms of regeneration maximizing perhaps trees that are really
beneficial to wildlife. That's where I get those questions all
the time.

Speaker 3 (16:47):
It certainly can be, but they're also there's benefits of
an old growth for us too.

Speaker 4 (16:54):
There's there's.

Speaker 3 (16:59):
There's nothing wrong with somebody not wanting to disturb with
their forest, you know, actively managing it. It depends there's
wildlife to benefit more from an old growth forest than
a young If we're talking about game animals like deer turkey,
if they do, they'll like you know, brush year.

Speaker 4 (17:13):
Ground after a recent harvest, UH with new regeneration coming.

Speaker 3 (17:17):
In with If you're if you're talking solely from a
forestry perspective. Actively managing it, you can you can promote
oak regeneration better sometimes and than a natural like an
old growth forces things die. Shade tolerant species might take
out still replace the canopy, but it it.

Speaker 4 (17:41):
I think it can go both ways.

Speaker 3 (17:43):
If if people are interested in actively managing their forest
for money, then it could be short sighted if they
don't want to cut it, because you can do it
in a way that it still looks pretty. But you
also there's nothing wrong with an old growth forest.

Speaker 2 (17:57):
I got you all right, Folks got to go to
break here. Get ready for the Kentucky Archery opener on
September sixth with the Dartned line of bows, that op
supply Archery pro Shop in Simpsonville, beginner of pro archery guns,
op supply and sensibilities, everything you need. God, I know
you've got some other questions for David how On in there.

Speaker 5 (18:19):
Well, David, don't come through the microphone and choke me
for this, but I've got to ask. As you talk
about the timber markets, and we talk about old growth timber,
and it is very debatable on where succession plays into effect.
And I think everybody can agree that we've all seen
a force that's been cut and then turn right around

(18:43):
within too quick of a time period and cut again,
and between the erosion issues that Jim was even talking
about around the red line. We want to use good
conservation practices and we want to look at things for
more than just the money.

Speaker 6 (19:00):
You have timber too.

Speaker 5 (19:01):
But I have to ask, and it is when you
see programs where individuals can plant areas with a species
of trees. And I'm gonna you were talking about the
walnut market, so I'm gonna I'm gonna ask you on walnuts.

Speaker 6 (19:21):
Do you think that when folks do set.

Speaker 5 (19:24):
Particular areas of their land aside to truly grow trees
and rows and prune and mole and do all those things,
it is that a good or a bad way to
look at managing timber on your property.

Speaker 3 (19:45):
Well, I don't want to make anybody mad, but every
time I've gone out to a walnut plantation where somebody's
been growing up for years and mowing through there, the
base of those trees have been nixed so many times
with equipment that the buttlog, the veneer log on there
is degraded.

Speaker 4 (20:02):
And also they don't.

Speaker 3 (20:05):
There is not enough competition created for that tree to
grow up tall and straight, so they limb out low
and you'll get just still get a.

Speaker 4 (20:13):
Short penier log out of there.

Speaker 3 (20:14):
But it's never as good as that natural competition that
you're getting in the woods in a in a natural
forest setting.

Speaker 4 (20:22):
I think that it can still be valuable.

Speaker 3 (20:24):
I think it takes some I think it takes some
expert knowledge in doing it instead of just going out
and planting your own walnut trees.

Speaker 4 (20:32):
And then also just if it's not just walnut and
other like old CRP programs and plantations.

Speaker 3 (20:40):
I think timber doesn't grow overnight, and when you just
plant a new forest, it takes time.

Speaker 4 (20:46):
Usually you'll probably by the time there's really high.

Speaker 3 (20:50):
Quality hardwoods growing in there, you'll probably it'll be somebody
further down the line in your family.

Speaker 4 (20:56):
You'll probably be gone. You know, it might be the second.

Speaker 3 (20:59):
Harvest out of there, Uh, where you're starting to see
real high quality and it's all it's all competition related.

Speaker 5 (21:06):
Yeah, and Jim, the reason I asked that question is
because David's very humble, and for folks that do own
land that has timber on it, I think it's important
that they understand how valuable of an asset someone like
David can be when he cannot only improve the overall
forced health, but he can also improve your overall number

(21:30):
on your checking or savings account at the bank. And
there these two things can come together. And when they
come together, who doesn't like to have a better force
and more money in the bank, you know. I mean
it's a win win, well, I should think.

Speaker 4 (21:48):
So that's why that's why I'm in the business, you know.

Speaker 2 (21:53):
Ah. And you know there's there's another side to that too,
and it's one I know you run into, David, and
that is a state planning where someone at a certain
age that's got all the standing timber, it's worth a
price that's going to be a huge chunk of money,
and then by harvesting it, the next generation that's coming behind,

(22:17):
if it's done properly, we'll have the same kind of
asset in their lifetime twenty years, thirty years down the road.
I know you probably do some of that type of planning.
Can you speak to that because you don't have to
cut over it once.

Speaker 8 (22:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (22:32):
I think that's one thing that's important to remember.

Speaker 3 (22:34):
When you were talking about timber appraisals is typically I'm
appraising all of the material available.

Speaker 4 (22:42):
So when you see and I'm.

Speaker 3 (22:44):
Very clear with that with landowners, say you have one
hundred thousand dollars, I've appraised it at one hundred thousand dollars. Well,
if we cut all one hundred thousand dollars worth of
timber out of there, you're not going to be very
happy with the wait looks so, but that's just the
way timber appraisals are conducted. You want to so and
usually you talk with the landowner and get a plan

(23:04):
first so.

Speaker 4 (23:04):
You can see, you'll see through your crews.

Speaker 3 (23:06):
What you know, what diameter trees you have, and the
health of the forest, and you can get an idea
about how much volume you can remove and the amount
of money that's going to be there while maintaining that structure.
So I definitely think it's the point to always remember though,
when you're getting your timber praise, you're praising and all
of it, which most people don't want.

Speaker 4 (23:27):
To cut all of it, right, you know.

Speaker 2 (23:29):
And it's important too, I think to point out in
the scope of what you do, you can give advice
about Hey, these are some less desirable trees. They're shading
out stuff that is going to be valuable way down
the road. We need to make that kind of assessment
as well. Right, Oh, definitely give some examples of that
so people can get their head around it if you would.

Speaker 3 (23:50):
Well, I mean, shade tolerant species tend to take over
a canopy because of past logging operations. So just because
you have big timber doesn't mean that it's valuable timber.
Species composition is that's gonna be the number one driving
factor of what what your timber is worth. And if
you have a stand of just shade tolerant species, hopefully

(24:15):
it's it's sugar maple and high quality.

Speaker 4 (24:19):
Instead of beach.

Speaker 3 (24:20):
Beach is the other main shade tolerant species we're talking
about here. That you go in and you see forests
that are completely composed of beach, huge mature beach trees,
it's likely it's because they in the past people have
cut the oaks and the hickories and they have high
graded the forest and they didn't want the beach and
they left them there, and those beach lived in the

(24:41):
understory forever or in the overstory, and we're just left
as mature beach.

Speaker 4 (24:46):
So I'll get to properties a lot of times.

Speaker 3 (24:49):
Where people have huge timber but it's not the right species,
so they think it's valuable just on based on the
size of the trees, but.

Speaker 4 (24:57):
A lot more goes into it than that.

Speaker 3 (25:00):
And if you ever want it to be valuable again, unfortunately,
and that's new, you need to cut those trees and
hopefully they're they got some value to them. If they're
if they're past their prime or you know, hollow or whatever,
then you you girdle them, you kill them and let
new stuff you know, come in behind it. But that

(25:20):
doesn't happen overnight. Like I said, Uh, that's the importance
of hiring somebody at Forrester, where you you try to
avoid that situation by cutting timber correctly and making sure
you're taking shade tolerant species, you're taking suppressed trees, and.

Speaker 4 (25:32):
You're leaving behind some of your higher quality trees. It's
all a balance.

Speaker 3 (25:35):
Of you gotta you gotta cut enough good stuff to
make it desirable for putting out for a bid sale,
but you have to leave you have to also get
enough of the bad stuff to keep the south of
the forestuff.

Speaker 4 (25:48):
And there the rotation cycle and the regeneration healthy. And yeah,
you have to leave behind high quality trees too.

Speaker 2 (25:58):
For I guess what I'm getting at here is there's
a big difference between people that just cut timber and
folks like yourself that manage timber. And you are a
timber management specialist. In addition to helping people understand what
the market price will bring, I know you put things
out to bed. I mean it's complicated.

Speaker 4 (26:21):
Yeah, yeah, I mean.

Speaker 3 (26:24):
Putting your timber out to bids typically the best way
to sell it. I mean it's if you just are
going with if you're just selling timber and cutting anything
and letting somebody come in there and offer your price,
or you know, cut anything that they want, it's gonna
get cut heavy and that opens up regeneration for sure.

Speaker 4 (26:42):
I mean you'll get some sunlight on the ground.

Speaker 3 (26:46):
It's look, every every landowner and job has a different
goal and different mindset of it.

Speaker 4 (26:54):
There's plenty of times I've gone in and done.

Speaker 3 (26:55):
Clearcuts where it was the you know, that's what the
land under wanted, or it was the right thing to
do and they had enough acreage where that it made sense.
So there's working if you're if you're worried about selling timber. Ever,
working with the forester is the way to go, because
you're gonna you're gonna learn a lot along the way,
and you're gonna get a knowledge about your forests that

(27:19):
you wouldn't have in the other way, and you'll get
some peace of mind of kind of knowing your volume,
knowing what you're selling, and at the end of the day,
ultimately having the option to turn down bids. I mean,
let's not forget that it's not a fun thing to
ever do. But if BID's coming low, you have the
right to refuse all of them. You're not forced into
selling your timber if it goes out to bid and

(27:40):
the bids aren't what you and I have talked about beforehand.

Speaker 5 (27:44):
Cool Scott, Well, I think I think with all that
being said, it it also allows you to kind of
look at some factors of where maybe the market's going
and to give yourself a little bit of I guess
space or time that you can allow for predictable and

(28:04):
unpredictable things to come up and come about. So I
guess the main thing that I want to make sure
of is that if someone is afraid of the timber market,
or they're even afraid how to go about cutting their timber.
The reason why you work with someone like David is

(28:27):
to they provide a service for you to help make
the right decision. And it's obvious from what David's saying
that nothing's going to be forced upon you. It's your
land and it's definitely your asset, and it's you that's
going to be able to make the final decision.

Speaker 6 (28:43):
But I think it's very important.

Speaker 5 (28:44):
To have individuals that provide the services that David does
to kind of help give you the data and statistics
in fact, so that you don't make a wrong decision
for a multitude of reasons, that being the environmental part
and who I mean, no one wants to leave money
on the table, and that that's the biggest message that
I think that we can deliver the folks is that,

(29:06):
you know, let's shake hands, but let's all agree that
everybody needs to come out ahead on this just not
one part of the equation when it comes to all
parties that are involved with cutting and harvesting and managing timber.

Speaker 3 (29:19):
Yeah, I mean, it's an important relationship between me and
the timber buyer, me and the landowner and the landowner.

Speaker 4 (29:25):
And the timber buyer and everybody involved.

Speaker 3 (29:29):
And there's a lot of good timber buyers out there
and a lot of good loggers that do a great service.
And I'll say one thing, when you're working with the forester,
you're you're gonna be working with somebody, a good timber buyer.
For the most part, it's uh.

Speaker 4 (29:51):
You're you're you're putting it out to bid.

Speaker 3 (29:55):
Like as a forester myself and I know my other
foresters around the state of the same way that when
you're putting your timber out to bid, I'm not if
there's if there's a bad actor or somebody that shouldn't
you shouldn't be dealing with. That's not somebody that's getting
a bidsheet or getting offered a chance to bid on
the timber. So that's another that's another benefit when you're

(30:16):
having reservations about selling timber, working with the forester, you're
you're working with somebody that works in the industry a
lot cares about their clients.

Speaker 2 (30:24):
And is does not amize their profit. Yeah, very good.
All right, I'm going to go to break here. Get
ready for Kentucky's archery opener on September sixth with the
dart and line of bows that opsupply Archery Pro Shop
in Simpsonville Beginner a pro archery guns op supplying Simpson

(30:46):
Bill has everything you need. David uh Here's a big question.
I gues everybody should haven't their mad What are somebody
need to know before batter or in land on it.

Speaker 3 (31:04):
If you're just talking about timber is an asset before
you buy it, you you you would like you should
bring somebody in a forest in or somebody and do
research to know a species composition, what's growing there, what
type of you would want to know if you have
any invasive problems for to make sure that you can

(31:26):
you can keep a sustainable timber harvest without all the
regeneration getting choked out by invasives. You definitely want to
look at access if if you don't have any good
logging access, no matter how good the timber is, it
doesn't matter, you're not gonna be able to get it out.
And a lot of people want to know about a

(31:46):
lot of people are looking for an immediate return when
they're buying property from the timber. And I think consulted
calling a forester and having them having them look at
it with you to get that species composition and an
idea of what they could expect if they were you know,
what logging access is and what they can expect from

(32:06):
a timber harvest.

Speaker 5 (32:08):
It's got a great point there, Jim, that he made
on that immediate return. I know a lot of folks
will sometimes I think the cats out of the bag
a little bit on this. But used to be people
could buy some property and actually profit from it because
they didn't know what the value of their timber was
on it. But that's a that's a point David that

(32:31):
I don't want to put you in a bad spot,
but I would really like to hear kind of where
we're at, since we're talking about modern economics in the
market of the low range, the mid range to the
high range of what you've been seeing some of these
landowners getting per acre or on the typical tracks of

(32:52):
land with average timber to lower timber, to even you know,
some that have some of the older growth.

Speaker 6 (33:00):
Where where are people at?

Speaker 5 (33:02):
Because a lot of times folks will look at price
per acre on what they're getting on a lease for
their crops, or they look at bushels and yields.

Speaker 6 (33:10):
Where are your figures.

Speaker 3 (33:13):
Right now, you sound like some landowners that I go
and meet with for the first time.

Speaker 4 (33:19):
I'll tell you what I tell them.

Speaker 3 (33:21):
There's there's not if there was some magic formula to
know a price per acre, you know quickly like.

Speaker 4 (33:28):
That, then I'd I would be out of a big
part of my business.

Speaker 6 (33:32):
Amen, there's.

Speaker 3 (33:36):
I have sold three acres September for seventy thousand dollars
and I've sold thirty acres September for twenty five thousand dollars. Right,
they were just cut differently, in different species, compositions, different qualities,
different accesses and terrain, and in different demands from local mills.
There's there's too many variables that go in to try

(33:57):
and nail something like that down where somebody that I'd
feel comfortable with saying on the radio, so where somebody
at home would be kind of going through their head,
you know, making some sort of calculation per acre at
their house and thinking that that's what kind of money
they have sitting out there. I hope it's probably not

(34:18):
the answer that you wanted, but it's the truth.

Speaker 5 (34:21):
No, it's a great answer because I think a lot
of times people just assume that every acre is worth
the same amount, And there's so many different factors that
come into play, and when people start looking at tracks
of ground, you you really can't just go off of
what the neighbor down.

Speaker 6 (34:39):
The road got all the time.

Speaker 5 (34:41):
And it's really important that folks understand that these acres,
these lots of timber have to be assessed and that
market is important. And I think something too that is
important for me to bring up, and hopefully it is
for you. When someone owns piece of ground, it's okay

(35:02):
for them, I would guess to have a work in
relationship with you for maybe several years before even the
first log gets cut.

Speaker 2 (35:10):
Correct.

Speaker 3 (35:11):
Oh yeah, that's I've It's like that with a lot
of my clients. Uh, timbers a long game. Forestry is
a long game. Trees don't grow overnight, and just because
your timber is not ready to be cut doesn't mean
there's active management you can't do to make that next
rotation cut come quicker or more valuable.

Speaker 2 (35:29):
David Both, we have a people access shoot.

Speaker 3 (35:33):
You can just call me My phone numbers five O
two eight oh two six O two one and my
website's Coxforestry dot com.

Speaker 4 (35:42):
And uh yeah, I'm a I'm a member.

Speaker 3 (35:44):
Of ACF, the Association of Consulting Foresters, and there's other
ACF foresters out there. You can get ACF dot org. Oh,
I think we changed our website, but a cf ACF foresters,
uh for other foresters around the state.

Speaker 2 (35:57):
Too. Very good, So well, thanks so much for tonight.
I know it's gonna be beneficial for a lot of
landowners out there. All right, folks got to go to
this break presented by Marsill Properties Heart Realty. Check out
their listings m O P h A R T Realty
dot com. All right, everybody, welcome the hour two of

(36:18):
Jim Straight out Doors Scott. In this segment, we're gonna
be talking with Paul Thomas's Massile Properties Heart Realty. Uh.
Paul has obviously been in the real estate business for many,
many years. He's a real estate broker who's got agents
all over the Commonwealth, and he's gonna join us. And

(36:38):
I guess i'd like you to kind of lay out
a little bit scouter of what things we think might
be of interest to the listeners here.

Speaker 5 (36:47):
Well, the first thing that is probably the most important
is Paul is an honest individual and he's a fantastic
realtor that will give you a no nonsense approach to
not only buying land, but selling land. I've used in
personally myself on a farm in Grayson County, So I'm

(37:08):
speaking from firsthand experience, just not because the fact that
he's a friend, but the biggest part about what Paul
is going to be able to bring to us tonight, Jim,
is there are not many people out there that hunt
and fish or work hard that don't want to have

(37:28):
their little piece of the pie. And that piece of
the pie is more land than just that little bitty
lot that they mow grass on and have a house on.
A lot of folks over the years, when you talk
to them, they regret not buying land at certain times
of their life, or they regret selling a piece of

(37:48):
property once they get rid of it. And it's just
an awesome topic.

Speaker 6 (37:53):
To talk about because it.

Speaker 5 (37:55):
Doesn't matter what the reasoning is behind it. People want land,
people who hunt, people who fish. Sometimes people age, or
they go through the process of the life cycle and
they pass and back to where we talked earlier on
the States, the transactions and the transition of buying and

(38:16):
selling land is a very important topic. It deals with
everything from economics to just availability. So I'm interested to
hear what's hot, Jim, and what's not in kind of
areas that Paul is seeing growth and land coming up
for sale and areas that ground is in high demand,

(38:37):
along with how many people that are buying land are
from Kentucky and how many people are buying land in
Kentucky that aren't from here.

Speaker 2 (38:45):
Yeah, that's a big question and hopefully heating shed some
light offs. I'm gonna go to break here get ready
for the Kentucky Archery opener on September sixth with the
Darting line of bows that op supply Archery Pro Shop
in Simpsonville. Can hecky beginner pro archery or guns? I'm
supplying Simpsonville has everything you need? All right, folks, We've

(39:09):
been having some trouble technical issues reaching Paul. Paul, can
you hear me? Okay him? Yes, now I can? I
sure can?

Speaker 8 (39:24):
All right? Good deal good the other phone he's hanging
up on me on I think it's coming from.

Speaker 2 (39:29):
God's then, But that's okay, Okay, Well, welcome aboard. Sorry
for the confusion here, but uh, obviously we've got a
lot of things to talk about Scott. I'll let you
lean in on this.

Speaker 5 (39:42):
Yeah, there's there's no confusion on this as there Paul.

Speaker 6 (39:46):
People are selling, the people are.

Speaker 5 (39:48):
Buying, laying all the time, and and uh, I know
in our weekly talks we get to discuss a little
bit about what people are looking for.

Speaker 6 (39:59):
But for the folks that are listening.

Speaker 5 (40:01):
Kind of tell us a little bit right now what's
going on with land in Kentucky. That what you're seeing
from the buyers and the seller's perspective and kind of
what's hot, what's not, and where your inventory's at on
what you've got that's for sale and what you're looking
forward to possibly have for sale.

Speaker 8 (40:22):
Well, I mean to me, right now, in the state
of Kentucky, I think the market's stable. One of the
biggest issues is still the lack of inventory that's available.
We're starting to see a little bit of more of
that inventory come back on the market, but it's kind
of leveled out. You know, the prices is not gaining
quite like they was during the COVID period, so everything's

(40:45):
kind of stabled out. And what I've been seeing is
is we've been having more of an increase in sales
really in the Eastern Kentucky market versus central and Western
and I think a lot of that is due that
Eastern Kentucky obviously a lot of times takes a little
bit longer to catch up with other parts of Kentucky.

(41:05):
So pricing wise, it's still at a lower price per
acre than central western Kentucky. And I think that's what's
driving investors and people to Eastern Kentucky. It is really
just a lot of the price per.

Speaker 5 (41:19):
Acre when it comes to land in general, Paul, you
are you seeing where there's more of a demand where
people are buying ground in Kentucky that are non residents
of Kentucky or is it balanced out kind of equally.

Speaker 8 (41:39):
I think what you're seeing on my end of things
is that I'm seeing a lot more investors come into
the market and putting the money into land. And we
still we've always, through our offices, have always had a
big out of state market, so and that's still the
case for us. We handle probably sixty percent sixty percent

(42:01):
of our buyers all come from out of state and investors.
Like I said, the investors are getting into it, but
we have a few other people that are moving from
this side to that side based on job related issues,
you know, taking new jobs or whatever, but out of
state market is still one of my biggest drivers. I know.

Speaker 5 (42:21):
One of the most interesting things is when a piece
of property goes up for sale. There's always a few
people standing around a circle talking about how outrageous it
is and they'll never get that for that you know,
piece of ground, and two or three days later, you
see a sign that says pending or sold, or you

(42:41):
see a social media post that says under contract. So
there's there's been a lot, you know, at my age
forty seven, there's there's been a lot of change with
how people buying purchase land, and there's been a big
demand i think in general, just for different types of
and there's not necessarily any one type of track that's

(43:04):
been hot or cold. It seems that there's so many
different people in the world that something appeals to everybody.

Speaker 8 (43:12):
Well absolutely absolutely it's and to me, the buying the
buying age right now is still you know a lot
older people my age, you know, the forties, fifties, sixties,
and they're finally buying that piece of ground to either
buy their forever home or they want to build their
forever home and then we also have a small portion

(43:33):
of them that want to buy that ground so they
can take their green kids hunting and build those memories up.
And you know, it seems to kind of be in
that territory.

Speaker 2 (43:44):
Paul question, I've got back to this non resident purchasing.
The It's no secret to land in most of the
other Southern states is a lot higher per acre than
here in many regards, especially rawland what we would consider rawland,
and our emphasis on the quality of our deer herd

(44:10):
has played a big factor in that, but it's also
created some concerns about out of state people on so
much land that our residents are having trouble to find
places to hunt. That's a big issue for me. So
what are your thoughts about that? I mean, is that

(44:31):
what you're seeing that we're cheaper, we've got big bucks
and here they come, or what are your thoughts?

Speaker 8 (44:38):
Well, I do think that the quality of deer that
has been taken and hitting record books obviously everybody, I
don't care which state coming from, that's an eye catcher
to them being able to come and take a book
in the early park and velvet. I think it's a
big driver. And I mean when you're sitting here. I
hadn't looked lately, but averaging out somewhere in the top

(45:01):
five in the country as far as taking record book bucks,
that's always going to be a big driver. That's why
I think you see a lot more than even the
hunting shows where do they always start. You see them
right here in Kentucky velvet hunting, and they're just bringing
in and driving in even more eyeballs to our state.
And hey, even a smaller deer for us is a

(45:22):
joint compared to what they're used to taking in a
lot of the Southern states, no doubt.

Speaker 2 (45:27):
And that's something we're going to speak to in some
future shows because it's also created problems for a resident hunters.
But that's a different, different topic for another day. Uh,
interest rates right now, how do they affect the land
prices under? You know what the buyers and sellers are doing?

Speaker 8 (45:48):
Well. I think we do have a little bit more
increase in just cash only buyers, which is a good
thing makes our deals a little simpler, easier to get through.
But interest rates kind of for raw ground, it's kind
of been standing in that six to eight percent range
depending on who you're going through because everybody has a
little bit different programs, you know, farm credit and like

(46:11):
some of those they'll take and say, hey, if you
want a twenty year notee twenty percent down, you want
a thirty year note at thirty percent down? In year
note it's ten percent down. But they're all kind of
in that six to eight percent range, and I think
that's in some ways kind of slowed this down a
little bit. A lot of people are just not ready
or not willing to give that's seven eight percent and

(46:34):
interest rates, and that's why I think you're kind of
seeing or market kind of stabilized and it's not growing
like it Deer did there in that twenty twenty two
twenty twenty three range.

Speaker 2 (46:48):
Okay, what what are economic factors are grabbing land prices
in Kentucky right now or in the region in general.

Speaker 8 (46:58):
I think it's just lack of inventory. It's you know,
if I've got one hundred acres that fail, I've got
a lot more people that want that hundred acres than
these hundred acre tracks that are out there. And so
if I got the one product that everybody wants, obviously
I can demand or ask for a premium price of

(47:19):
said product and just in my area, like Hart County.
You know, since twenty twenty till the day a lot
of our cases are on, land prices have doubled, it's
not tripled, just over that four or five year period,
just due to demand low.

Speaker 6 (47:37):
Listen to yeah, listening to those comments. It golly coming.

Speaker 5 (47:43):
What a crazy topic land prices in the state of Kentucky,
Southern Indiana, Middle Tennessee.

Speaker 6 (47:51):
Maybe we were so underpriced for so.

Speaker 5 (47:53):
Long, you know, and then the Internet come along, and
then people started, you know, looking at venturing out.

Speaker 6 (48:01):
And one of the topics that you brought up, Jim, was,
you know.

Speaker 5 (48:05):
Less availability for people to hunt, and a lot of
people don't like that. There's so many different ways that
you can talk to that topic.

Speaker 6 (48:16):
But one of the things that you've.

Speaker 5 (48:19):
Got to stop for just a second. And I don't
know if it's taking the gloves off or shaking hands,
but if you want a place to hunt and fish on,
and you want a place to call your own, you
got to buy it. And you can expect people just
to always let you utilize their land for free. And

(48:43):
if people are frustrated with the leasing of land and
how it's hard to get a place to hunt or
fish on that. It's not a quick answer. It's not
a quick fix because you've got to have some type
of money to bring to the negotiating table. But it's
important that folks realize that if they want a place

(49:06):
for their grandchildren to have one day, and they don't
want their grandchildren to have these same battles that they've
had as far as trying to secure a place to
hunt and fish on this by permission. The answer to
me is by a piece of land and leave that
legacy to your family.

Speaker 6 (49:26):
Am I wrong?

Speaker 8 (49:26):
Paul, No, I one hundred percent agree with you. It's
still a great time to invest in land. You know,
it's a stable product. It always tends to grow. And
I think that as the economy improves and all these
other factors that's kind of going on in the world
gets better, we're going to see the same thing. You're
going to start to see those higher increases in price.

(49:49):
The days of this price going down, I don't think
we're going to see for a long time. It's just
going to continue to increase. And I always told one
my as you buy it, every time you make that payment,
it's kind of like putting a little few dollars extra
in your savings account that at some point, if you choose,
you'll have the ability to recoup and probably even add

(50:10):
a little bit money to that pile that you've been doing.
But it's a you know, the old thing is they
ain't making any more of it is just as true
today as it's always been, and we're trying getting smaller
and smaller, you know, opportunities to buy bigger tracks. Eventually
you're going to get much more difficult.

Speaker 6 (50:30):
And the thing is, is the value of land now.

Speaker 5 (50:35):
It used to be that maybe people were looking at
a piece of ground just to build a house on,
or to start a business on, or maybe to raise
a crop or some livestock on. But we've got to
remember how much demand there is to own land for
the value of having a place to hunt and fish,
and that has changed the market of these land prices.

(50:55):
People do want land just to hunter fish on.

Speaker 6 (50:58):
And it's not like some.

Speaker 5 (51:00):
People back in you know, thirty forty fifty years ago,
where they were looking at just trying to figure out
a way that they could make the land pay for itself.
We've got a buyer, I think, in my opinion, that
has money. They've worked, and now they just want something
to call their own.

Speaker 6 (51:15):
And that has seemed to make.

Speaker 5 (51:17):
A lot of folks scratch their head that people just
want to buy a piece of land that may not
be profitable to them.

Speaker 8 (51:24):
Oh I you know, me and my dad talk about
this a lot. You know, we've invested in a lot
of land autit, fixed it up, turned around, sold it,
and this and that, and in some ways from an
investment standpoint, it's just crazy what you would have to
give for property today to invest in versus in twenty nineteen,
twenty twenty. It's amazing. But I mean, if it's available,

(51:49):
it's still selling. There's no doubt it will still sell.
It'll still bring great money. You know, it just has
to be out there for somebody to see. If you
don't have it on the market, you know it's not
going to sell.

Speaker 2 (52:02):
Absolutely. What motivates most people to sell that you run
into nowadays just out of curiosity.

Speaker 8 (52:11):
I think, well, I think I know it's a broad question. Yeah, yeah,
I think a lot of it too is is you
still got some older people that are wanting to downsize,
you know, the grandson, daughter, you know, whatever, they don't
they're not interested in taking care of two hundred acres

(52:31):
a ground, even if it is wooded, and or maybe
they're getting close to retirement age and they just want
to downsize. And a lot of them want to sell
because look when they bought the property back in two
thousand and ten and compared to what they gave four
ten and what it is now, you know, they want
the idea of taking that money just secure their future financially.

(52:53):
Maybe they want to build, you know, that new house
somewhere on five acres versus having one hundred acres or
ground and take care of and that accomplishes everything they want.
And like I said, there's been a lot of investors
in the market. So I get a lot of these
guys that we've got connected with where they'll take the
time to write all these letters and they're usually out

(53:13):
of state investors, right, and they'll write these letters, they
buy this ground up, and then they turn to me
to flip it for them. And you're seeing more of
that today in this marketplace than you've ever seen before.
I mean, I'm sure the listeners here today, if they've
got a piece of track somewhere that's even remotely deesent sized,
they've all got that here, John will buy your property

(53:36):
for X. You know.

Speaker 2 (53:39):
Well where you come into place. Obviously you can help
them assess that property and understand what kind of optimal
price it will bring it. That's the big deal on
your side of the fence, and in terms of service,
and those Troup will correct.

Speaker 8 (53:55):
All right, I've run.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
Yep. All right, folks have got to go to break here.
This break it's presented by S and My Marine or
eleven point of Westport Road, just north of the Snyder.
The twenty twenty fives are on sale. There's all kinds
of buying incentives out there on those and the twenty
six is are on their way. So this is a
good time to think about buying. And remember you never

(54:23):
get soaked by my friends at S and My Marine.
All right, Scott, you had another question for Paul.

Speaker 5 (54:32):
Yeah, Paul, give us the down and dirty what you
don't research and find on the internet when it comes
to helpful tips for both the buyer and the seller.

Speaker 6 (54:42):
When land has mineral.

Speaker 5 (54:44):
Right issues or easement problems or advantages, or even just
sources of income from production agriculture, like for example, part
of the farm can be leased out not just for hunting, but.

Speaker 6 (55:03):
Because the fact that they've got terrible.

Speaker 5 (55:05):
Land like give us the give us the Paul Thomas
going down the road, sitting in the truck version, all
filters off tips and tactics.

Speaker 8 (55:16):
Well, I think the most important thing is we've run
into this a lot with our properties in eastern Kentucky.
You know, make sure your easements are correct and they're secured.
Make sure that got an up to date survey, so
double check your mineral rights and make sure that everything's

(55:36):
in order. We got a property right now that we're
working on and the easement with the survey that it
has is not clear, and so we're having to take
the time in the background to get with surveyors get
all that correct, and not only for one landowner, but
for another landowner as well that we're coming through. And
so that's some of the things. I've had a lot

(55:58):
of investors just ground, but then they don't take the
time to do the research make sure they have everything
secured the way it needs to be. You know, if
you're a seller, you know, just your previous guess is
a prime example. I come out and I look at
your farm, and I can tell that you have decent
timber on it. One of the things I'm going to

(56:19):
do is recommend that you get a timber cruise on it,
you know, because you want to know what kind of
value you're looking at. You don't want to leave money
on the table as a seller, and I've utilize that
in our pricing scale. When we've done that it, make
sure your surveys is up to date, and make sure
that a buyer can tell where all the corners are.

(56:40):
Make sure and we know exactly how many acres is
in it. We're not guessing that it's one hundred and
fifty nine acres. Well, what if it turned out to be,
you know, one hundred and fifty two. Great example that
just happened the farm next to where your dad's property was.
I had it for sale, we had it listed it
was one hundred and fifty nine acres when all the
surveys got done and complete, turned out to be one

(57:01):
hundred and fifty two acres. There's always little things to
check on, you know, and that's where having somebody experience
in rule land to ask all the questions, check all
the boxes, and making sure that everything's done then done correctly,
not only from a buyer side, but from a seller side.

(57:23):
You know that's an invaluable deal. You know, you need
somebody that's going to look after all aspects of that deal.

Speaker 5 (57:30):
How often do you see, Paul, where you walk a
piece of property and maybe folks haven't taken full advantage
of types of income that the property could bring in,
whether that's areas that are around riparian zones, or ways
in which they can change or modify agricultural practices for example,

(57:53):
maybe putting it into the CRP. Is it is it
more common for proper that you're selling right now to
be taking full advantage of all of the government incentive
programs that are available, or is it something that folks
are still a little bit on the ignorant side on.

Speaker 8 (58:13):
I think it's a little bit of they don't have
enough knowledge take advantage of it. A lot of them
don't want to be tied down with government programs. You know,
some of them have a time period which if you
do this, if you take it out before then you've
got to pay back and different things of that nature.
So what I'm probably seeing is there's probably about sixty

(58:36):
seventy percent of current landowners that probably could take advantage
of some of the ACS, n RCS type programs that's available,
but they just don't want to hamper theirselfs down with it,
or they just don't know about it, so therefore they've
never took advantage of it.

Speaker 2 (59:00):
Generally speaking, because you cover the whole state, are there
hotspots right now or things that you can maybe tell
our listeners would be important for them to know about
the best places to purchase lam for different options, Like
if you're looking for a piece of hunting ground, here's

(59:23):
where you would suggest to go. Or if they're maybe
looking for a place on a lake, you know what
lakes are hot? I mean, is there some things there
that you could help folks think about?

Speaker 8 (59:37):
Well, I definitely. I think anything in that central or
Western Kentucky prices have always been stable in to grow
more than they do in Eastern Kentucky and have a
little bit more development. To another words, current surveys, better
road systems, better access to water and electric, which to
me is utmost important to have access to water and electric.

(01:00:02):
So all of those I think are definitely well. Like
I said, we're seeing an increase in Eastern Kentucky's ground,
but I think some of the reasons why I'm seeing
that in eastern Kentucky is is parsel sized are a
lot bigger. You know, if you want to go out
and buy one thousand acres, you're more apt to find
it in eastern Kentucky than anywhere. And because of the

(01:00:23):
price for acre, you know, still being in that you
know and some there's still some parts East Kentucky that's
under a thousand an acre, but realistically, you know, a
thousand and two thousand dollars an acre, w'll catch a
whole lot of ground in eastern Kentucky still to where
you start getting Central Kentucky and Western Kentucky. Heck, we
could be talking anywhere from mid threes all the way

(01:00:45):
up to ten thousand an acre. It just depends on
the location and what opportunities that property have.

Speaker 5 (01:00:52):
All talking about locations being hot, I know that it
seems to kind of go in cycles, but it there's
a lot of talk right now where I hear people
wanting to go in together to purchase land. That could
be brothers, that could be guys that work together and

(01:01:15):
they want to get their own piece of ground to
hunt on.

Speaker 6 (01:01:17):
Give us some tips on.

Speaker 5 (01:01:19):
Why this could be good or bad, or maybe what
you've seen as far as problematic issues when folks want
to kind of go in and buy a track of
land with multiple buyers.

Speaker 8 (01:01:33):
Well, I'm definitely seeing a little bit more of it
where you'll we'll buy like one hundred acre or two
hundred acre farm and they'll want to go in and
put like a family type compound on it, where you know,
the daughter lives on this section of the farm, the
mom and dad live over here, maybe the son lives
over here. You're starting to see more than that than

(01:01:54):
I've ever seen before. And the plus side this is
they're all pulling their money together or so they're able
to have a little bit more purchasing power and it's
cheaper for each individual, but they can buy a little
bit more, and I think that's a great concept to
do it. The only draw back I see in the

(01:02:15):
long run is is that you know, daughter family whoever
decide that life has changed, things has changed, and they
want to go sell their portion of the family compound.
You know, it kind of maybe potentially creates some dynamics
for everybody that might be different, but everything may work out.
Just find it's but you're definitely seeing more and more

(01:02:38):
of it today than i've ever seen.

Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
Paul, You've been in a business. You've been in the
business forever. It's family business for you. What do you
personally enjoy most about selling real estate, especially the rural
real estate that you all excel in.

Speaker 8 (01:03:00):
Well, one of the things that I like, I love
being out and outdoors. I love going to a farm
looking at it, kind of being out and out in
a wild a little bit, walking the property, seeing all
the creeks and streams that's through there. But what I
really enjoy is take you out or scott out to
a property, we look at it, and we build that relationship,

(01:03:26):
and then once we get it done, you now have
that property. But I really enjoy is how for years
after that you're from the buyer where they got their grandson,
their first deer or turkey. And years later, Hey, we're
wanting to do some stuff here cover cross wise, but

(01:03:48):
I need some help. Can you help me with that?
What would you recommend? Or hey, do you have access
to a dozer operator or who would you recommend for this?
Or even just like your previous guess, we think we
got some good timber here. Can you help us with that?
And I'll get somebody and for my sellers. You know,
you end up building a great relationship because you're talking

(01:04:09):
to them all the time. I was just telling Scott
one the other day where we will go in Indiana
to hunt turkey hunt. Sometimes turns out one of my
sellers of the property doesn't live that far from you know,
where we're gonna be hunting. So you know, I'm already
got to invite to come back over and hang out
with that time period. Those are are the things I

(01:04:32):
like it. The relationships.

Speaker 2 (01:04:34):
Well, that's that's very admirable. All right, I gotta go
to break here, hey, folks, getting ready for the Kentucky
Archery opener on September sixth with the darting line of
bows at Op Supply Archery Pro Shop in Simpsonville, Kentucky
Beginner or Pro Archery or guns Op Supply in Simpsonville
has everything you need, Paul.

Speaker 5 (01:04:59):
A lot of times the size of a farm will
impact whether or not a buyer is going to be
able to come up with the money to purchase it.
But between farm size and just normal misconceptions when it
comes to buying and selling land with its value, tell

(01:05:21):
us how we can work through this and what are
some things that you're encountering where maybe the seller or
the buyer is not fully versed on what the situation
may be at hand when it comes to the purchase
or the sale of the property.

Speaker 8 (01:05:40):
Well, you know, it's a lot of times what I'm
seeing right now is the expectation for the seller in
some cases because of what they've heard, is a lot
higher than what reality is. And then you still got
a lot of old school they think that it's still
down a little bit lower, but it's a you know,
right now, I think some of the misconceptions is is, hey,

(01:06:04):
you're going to list it on a Monday and it's
going to be sold by Friday. And sometimes that's not
realistic from a seller standpoint. And a lot of a
lot of my buyers, you know, they hadn't took all
the necessary steps ahead of time to get yourself ready
for that purchase, you know, secured all their money, got
everything in place. There's probably some things they're not thinking about.

(01:06:26):
With water electric survey, you know, they just assume that
water and electrics already there and it may not be.
They may assume minerals is there and it may not be.
And even your sellers sometimes don't think about the survey
and easements and stuff like we talked about earlier. So
it's some of the back and forth. It's where we

(01:06:48):
come in and you know, help them check all the
boxes off on both sides of the transaction.

Speaker 2 (01:06:54):
Paul, what causes misconceptions about laying value general that you
run into a lot of times?

Speaker 8 (01:07:04):
Well, like it's a lot of people may compare prices
what they're hearing in other states or what's some let's
say a price what they're hearing from grounds bringing in
Jefferson County. Uh, that's the same as what it should
be in Lee County or Ashland, Kentucky and every area,
every county. Uh, everything is different. You know what it'll

(01:07:27):
bringing Muhlenberg versus Ark County versus Lee County or Ashland
or Harland or whatever. Northern Kentucky. It's its own little
atmosphere and it's in its own little self.

Speaker 2 (01:07:42):
Yeah, Okay, there's a lot of things. You can affect
all this stuff. But what do you see in the
economic climate right now? I mean, you know there's tariffs,
there's this, and there's that, there's there's interest rates. What
what do you see as the biggies that are affecting

(01:08:03):
the market right now.

Speaker 8 (01:08:05):
Well, it's just like I started with. I think the
lack of inventory. There's just not enough out there to
purchase like there was in nineteen and twenty. So much
stuff got sold during that COVID period that it got
took off the market and not all of its returned.
And the stuff that you are seeing coming back on

(01:08:29):
the market, obviously from a pricing standpoint, is elevated higher
than what it was just a few years ago. So
I think a combination of the interest rate being a
little bit higher, taking a little bit longer to get
in some cases a little bit more difficult to get,
has created a little bit of the slowdown from a
purchasing standpoint, But also, you know, just the lack of inventory.

(01:08:55):
And then two, everybody from a real estate side, we're
all fighting over the same lists, or so few of them.
We're all fighting over the same listings. And I think
sometimes what you're saying, because I want to beat Scott
out for that listing, or I want to beat him
out for that listing, we're elevating the prices higher than
what the market should be just to get that listing.
And I think that's also have an effect on the market.

(01:09:17):
They're not giving it a true value going on to
market right from the beginning. That's kind of what I'm seeing.

Speaker 6 (01:09:27):
What it is.

Speaker 5 (01:09:28):
The number one influence going on right now, Paul, is
it is it people wanting land just to have a
house on kind of settle or are you seeing where
it's where people need a place to ride side by
sides and dirt bikes or hunting. I mean, what's the
number one thing? I guess it's opening your eyes to

(01:09:49):
drive that market.

Speaker 8 (01:09:51):
Well, I think it's kind of actually both of the
things that you're saying.

Speaker 2 (01:09:55):
You have.

Speaker 8 (01:09:57):
A lot of people that are wanting to build their
forever or home or have their forever property and downsize,
so that's a big portion of it. We have a
lot of out of staters that they're coming from the South.
They want to come to the north to have the
true four seasons. If they're up north, they want to
leave the cold weather and come here. But it's still
a lot built around jobs, kids and that nature. But

(01:10:22):
also have a certain amount of people that's obviously like
you and me. I want that fifty acres to be
able to go hunting on that I can afford to
do because maybe I don't have access nearby public ground
to go hunting on. So if I want to go hunting,
leases are no different than land values right now. All
the leases per acre and this and that to go

(01:10:44):
lease at fifty acre farm is much higher today than
it was in twenty twenty. And so if I want it,
just like you said earlier, I better get my hands
on it. And so that's driving it as well.

Speaker 2 (01:10:57):
Paul, real quickly. I know we got a lot of
listeners that are probably looking for some unique properties or
the good deals that you've got. If you got a
couple in mind that you can close that with, well,
I mean.

Speaker 8 (01:11:09):
We got a couple. I just listed about eighty four
acres in Adare County that's got about fifty acres and
beans on it. The rest is wooded. Would make an
awesome investment property that has income starting off on it
right on day one and looks good centrally located close
to Greenriver Lake, so you can take a ten minute drive,

(01:11:30):
you're at a marina and a beach on Green River Lake.
And then I've got done here in Hart County, I've
got one hundred and fifteen acres and Don Higgins he
wrote a management plan on it, and they pretty much
completed that plan, so that one's available right here in
Hart County as well.

Speaker 2 (01:11:49):
Well. For folks that aren't familiar with Tom Higgins, he's
one of the durus on managing properties for maximizing deer
hunting possibility. Soul that one ought to be a red
hot situation. Tell folks how they get in touch with
you real quick.

Speaker 8 (01:12:05):
If they want to reach me on my cell phone,
it's two seven o three seven four four two two.
They want to look us up on the web, they
can either go to m op art h A R.
T Realty dot com or Maulsiokproperty dot com and they
can see everything that we have our office numbers two
seven o five two four nineteen eighty.

Speaker 2 (01:12:24):
All right, Paul, thanks so much for joining us. Folks. Uh,
these are great asset for you if you want. Lamb
God bless everybody.