9-14-25 -, Jason Lupardus with Turkeys For Tomorrow

On tonight's program, Jim and Scott discussed the effects of the drought and the EHD epidemic that is killing deer across the region. The featured guest, Jason Lupardus with Turkeys For Tomorrow talked about turkey limits and predator control.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(00:44):
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Outdoors on news Radio eight forty whas.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
Good evening, everybody.

Speaker 3 (01:01):
Jim Straighter here with my co host Scott Cronin and Scott.
We got a slam dunk, chock full show for folks tonight.
It's a lot of things happening out there. We're gonna
lead off with reports about the EHD epidemic. And again
here we're talking about hemorrhagic disease, not c WD, don't

(01:24):
get this confused, but hemorrhagic disease. EHD is ravaging many
of the counties across the state. There's reports coming in.
There's a lot of hotspots. Will reveal what some of
those are. This is raging across Kentucky and son Indiana.
We're also gonna talk a little bit about squirrel season.

(01:46):
We're gonna talk about one of the most disappointing dove
seasons in my fifty plus years of chasing those birds.
And uh, we're gonna talk a good bit about turkeys tonight.
We've got Jason Lapartis with turkeys for tomorrow. That's going
to be with us. While you're aware that there was
a turkey survey conducted this year and there's some problems

(02:10):
with the survey, and as a result of some of
the concerns about that, there was a special meeting, a
turkey meeting held its apartment Official Wildlife here recently, and
Jason Lapartis was there and testified about some of the
things that needed to be considered instead of what was

(02:34):
really on the plate. So we're going to roll all
that out for you and a lot of information here tonight, Scott.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah, it'll be a great program.

Speaker 4 (02:45):
There's a lot going on this time of year, and
it's important to be involved and up to date with
not only the game, but some of the rules and
the regulations that can have a tremendous impact on us
and bringing that to the sportsmen and women across the Commonwealth.

Speaker 3 (03:02):
Yes, sir, well, I'm going to get right on this,
but first I'm going to go to a break, and
I want to tell you folks about two guys that
have been a tremendous amount of help to me. And
the reason I'm mentioning this is a lot of you
encounter the same kind of problems that I've run into.
Both these gentlemen are in the automotive industry. The first

(03:23):
one was Quirky Lambert. He's at Flambert's Pate Body in
the Collision Center over on Belmar Avenue in Louisville. I
had a buck deer with my truck. It's hard to
believe many miles as I travel in deer country. It's
the first and only deer I've ever hit, and it
was a big buck and it caused all kinds of

(03:44):
damage and Corky Lambert took me by the hand and
helped me through the nightmare I was having with my
insurance company over this. And basically the deer's antlers went
through the radiator and went through the feed to my transmission,
took out my windshield. Lucky didn't get hurt. But Corky

(04:06):
does excellent work, and if any of you out there
hit a deer or have a collision, I highly recommend him. Secondarily,
I was having a lot of trouble with my new
yukon electrical problems and all of you know about those headaches.
Quite frankly, the dealers weren't doing me much good, weren't

(04:26):
able to find out what was wrong with it, and
I ended up with Corey Mills at Mills Automotive. He's
at twelve oh four VIM, that's VIM Drive in Louisville.
Corey's a specialist in auto electrical and diesel situations. He's
a specialist in those areas. Long story short, he discovered

(04:48):
the electrical problems, one of which was a rodent. I
suspect either chipmunk or squirrel had built a nest into
the engine area and chewed on the wires. And everybody
else was searching fourteen different things, and Corey Mills analyzed it,
helped me.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
With it, and I'm really grateful.

Speaker 3 (05:11):
So again I would encourage any of you that have
any of those type of problems, you can take it
from me. These are guys you can trust. Again, this
quirky Lambert at Lambert Peyton Body and Collision Center over
on Belmar in Louisville. And Corey Mills and Mills Automotive
they do auto, electrical and diesel specialty work. And again

(05:34):
they're at twelve oh four VEM Drive in Louisville. We'll
be back right after this. All right, Scott, Let's talk
about the drought and EHD because it's really ugly.

Speaker 4 (05:50):
It's bad. Our neighbors to the north of us, up
in Ohio have really been hit hard with it, as
well as southern Indiana. But in Kentucky that want to
report any type of sick or dead deer can contact
the Department of Fishing Wildlife by calling one eight hundred
eight five eight one five four nine and they want

(06:13):
to send an email to their regional biologist. That's easily
found on the Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife website
and getting to be more positive cases identified in certain counties.
I know, I've been out in the field and a
lot of folks have try to call in an email
biologists and they must be covered up, Jim, because they're

(06:35):
not hearing back from them from the emails or the calls.

Speaker 2 (06:38):
But just got to be persistent.

Speaker 4 (06:40):
It's a busy time with as many deer that are
being found in the field, and that's being caused also
because our archery season is now open and people are
squirrel hunting and dove hunting and trying to work up
food plots, and of course the more that people get
out in roam, they're going to find more of these
dead deer that are typically found around the water sources

(07:03):
and where beds of you know, mud exists and deer
going in to get their water source. But it's been
pretty dramatic and we're not seeing any type of decrease.
It seems to be ramping up each and every day.
And we're keeping our fingers crossed that we can start
getting into some weather that will provide us with some

(07:24):
frost and hopefully will get some rains in which some
of these mud and barren areas will get water rises
and help the deer out. But it's been pretty traumatic.

Speaker 2 (07:36):
Mother Nature will cover.

Speaker 4 (07:37):
And do what she needs to do with population densities
and carrying capacity, but it's hard to sit back and
watch as a manager of land, Jim, especially when you're
trying to manage for an older age class of deer.

Speaker 3 (07:50):
It sure is, and I'm getting reports as you are.
Some of the hotspots that I'm aware of is the
areas up say, in Sudden, Indiana for Madison, all the
way down the river over into Harrison and Clark, and
the counties in between. The area down in around parts

(08:12):
of Mammoth Cave are real bad. There's a lot of
reports coming out of Grayson County where it's really really bad.
I know it's hit a lot of the counties down there.
Year any particular hotspots you want to mention.

Speaker 4 (08:27):
The major hot spot where all this started was around
Logan and Butler County. Then it kind of spread through
Warren and Todd if you look at the map and
utilize the Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife diagnostic case.
As far as regions, it seems just any of the
areas that are your northern counties that are bordering the

(08:49):
river are hitting pretty hot. One thing that scares me
quite a bit is seeing Jefferson County, you know, pop
on that because when you start seeing areas in and
around where a lot of people live that are not
necessarily honeing, a lot of times folks will dis misdiagnostics

(09:12):
as far as what's going on with EHD versus CWD,
which you cover. And I think that's why it's really
important that folks reach out to the department and get
in contact with their biologists because some of these deer
will suffer, and there is a legal way in which
you can put down a deer to ease its pain

(09:34):
and suffering. But just to remind our listeners, you cannot
dispose of a deer legally and into deer's life to
take it out of pain and misery until you get
in contact with someone officially from the department, and you
are not to take those antlers or any part of
that deer and move it and transport it without having
clearance from the department. So just trying to keep folks

(09:57):
legal and looking out for a while.

Speaker 3 (10:00):
You yes, sir, absolutely, Unfortunately this comes It was kind
of like a perfect storm if you.

Speaker 2 (10:07):
Think about it.

Speaker 3 (10:08):
We had so much water early and then as the
grout started to put his grip on all the areas
around the region, there was so much of this exposed mud.
And for folks that aren't familiar with this, it's passed
on by midges, biting gnats that bite the deer and

(10:28):
they carry that disease that gets into the deer, and unfortunately,
this is the type of EHD that kills them very quickly.
On average, forty eight to seventy two hours they're done,
and it's an ugly thing to watch and see, and
a lot of people's hearts are broken by a lot
of the big bucks that they're finding. And I appreciate

(10:49):
you giving everybody reminder you can't take that deadhead without
prior permission.

Speaker 2 (10:55):
So a word to the wires on that Scott season
one of the.

Speaker 3 (11:01):
Most disappointing I've ever had. Again, it's like a perfect storm.
We've never seen a cool snap come in in mid
August and last as long as it did. It pushed
the birds out. We had birds, I had fields that
were loaded, but buddy, we lost them. You know, that

(11:22):
north wind hit and those cooler temperatures hit, and unfortunately
we went from zero to sixty. What I mean by
that is we went from the nineties to lows in
the fifties and housed in the seventies with north winds
and they pushed, they took the opportunity to migrate.

Speaker 4 (11:40):
It was a very inconsistent report from everybody because a
lot of us that thought that the doves that we
lost would go to our friends and our neighbors down
in the southern states below us, and they had bad reports,
and we didn't really get a push of new birds
in from the north. Scouting was there everything. It wasn't

(12:02):
that you couldn't go out and find a place to
shoot some doves. There just wasn't the amount of doves
where most folks would gather to have fifteen to twenty
people and everybody being a little bit of action. Now,
there's still quite a few doves that got shot, and there.

Speaker 2 (12:18):
Was some good shooting.

Speaker 4 (12:19):
But even if you had the habitat and water sources
and put all the time, energy and effort into it.
This was just a year that you might have come
up shore a little bit on your reward if you
were looking for total numbers in your pile of does.
But the numbers were good and strong, Jim. Everybody was excited.
We all knew that we had had a really good

(12:41):
season as far as our output on young doves, and
they were around, and all of the reports on the
maps were showing for the most part that dove numbers
were looking good and promising. And it's a national holiday,
I mean, it's opening day of dove season, right, and
then here we are kind of standing and around and

(13:01):
we don't have any cake to eat or any presents
to open. And it kind of left some of us,
you know, turn into a neighbor to see if they
had a dove or two here or there. And it
was it was pretty much consistent on that report that
everybody was struggling.

Speaker 3 (13:16):
Yes, sir, we mentioned squirrels. Another head scratcher. I don't
know that I've ever seen squirrels so slow to transition
to cutting the hickory, both the shagbark and the pig nut.
And Scott, here's what's really weird about that down and
you're part of the state in western Kentucky, you all

(13:37):
are normally ahead of us. You're normally got a lot
of cutting activity before the season even opens.

Speaker 2 (13:44):
But it's been weird.

Speaker 3 (13:46):
And I will say, and I'm happy to report that
for folks that have stayed with it and been out
here recently, by that, I mean this week, they are
starting to cut.

Speaker 2 (13:57):
And that's so crazy.

Speaker 3 (14:00):
Because I would have thought, like everything else has been ahead,
that the nuts would have too, but it's not proven
to be.

Speaker 4 (14:07):
So Yeah, the mass was there, the temperatures were there,
the squirrels were just more and travel routes going from
point A to point B. It's almost like they weren't hungry.
And what's really happened in the past week or so.
Not that driving the roads is any way to depend
on all of your scouting, but no matter if you've
been traveling on gravel or asphalt, them squirrels have been

(14:30):
doing that shuffle, you know, where you just kind of
keep your vehicle on the road and keep going straight,
hoping not to hit them. So they're starting to migrate.
They're starting to move around, definitely seeing where in and
along the areas that are dealing with a lot of
drought conditions, that the rivers and the creeks that are
still holding water are really starting to get a tremendous
amount of squirrels in there with all wildlife in general,

(14:53):
because that's just how scarce that resources. But I think
folks are gonna find some good cooler temperatures come up
up here in the next few days after we get
through this front next weekend, and it's always a good
time to get out and shoot some squirrels and do
some deer scouting. Not that trumping around can't have a
negative impact on deer, but but don't sell yourself short

(15:16):
on enjoying a good squirrel hunt and getting a good
scouting trip in, whether it's for getting prepared for wood
duck season or trying to think about where you're gonna
go with the crossbow season opening up next Saturday state wide,
or just a traditional archery hunt. You can get into
a lot of these areas and find that fresh sign
from a squirrel hunting and turn right back around and

(15:38):
going that evening or a day or two and airly
a nice buck or put you put some dose on
the ground and have some venison.

Speaker 3 (15:46):
For your table, Yes, sir. Quick note folks, whether you're
out looking at these water sources for dead deer or
you're just out in about and have farm pons, these
conditions could very well lead to oxygen depletion. I look
for some ponds to flip. They've had low oxygen levels

(16:07):
for quite some time. We're getting ready to go into
another really hot spell this coming week, so they're on
that razor's edge, and I would encourage you to check
on them from time to time here over the next
week or two to make sure you haven't.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
Lost some fish. Scott the trees and the foliage.

Speaker 3 (16:29):
It looks almost like October out there.

Speaker 4 (16:34):
It's crunchy too, and that's that's not a bow hunter's friend.
It's not a squirrel hunter's friend.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
At all.

Speaker 4 (16:40):
These mornings, the dues and stuff have been to our
advantage to get out and slip around. But a lot
of your tulip poplars have really started to drop. It
seemed like overall there was a few varieties of trees,
your cottonwoods and everything. It started showing some dress and
stressed through the drought. And we've had some winds pick

(17:02):
up a little bit, which has kind of pushed a
few acorns out of the trees, which the wildlife will
definitely capitalize on. And that's another mixed bagg of reports
there on where your mass crop is at, so it's
definitely changing. It will be interesting to see how quickly
we lose our foliage and the drought struck in areas

(17:24):
and how beautiful the fall aesthetics will be in the
areas that have had some more rainfall than others. But
what scares me the most about the trees and the
drought gym is the impact it has long term. Trees
are no different than any other species of plant, and
stress can cause death and a lot of our forest,
and especially in and around our water edges of our

(17:47):
lakes and streams where they've been dealing with some tremendous flooding,
especially after this past spring and then going through a drought.
You know, it could always wreak havoc on some of
our trees. And that's something that if you're managing your
properties for the economic value or the wildlife output on

(18:07):
your mass crop, that you know, something we don't want
to necessarily see. But don't be surprised if there's a
little bit more leaf litter in what you think if
you haven't been out in the wood yet and it's crunchy,
it's hard to hide.

Speaker 3 (18:20):
And I think we're going to see going forward by
in the next five to ten years, probably a lot
of results of this draft and or the flooding, because
it was a one two punch, and I have no
doubt that the.

Speaker 2 (18:34):
Root systems are really stressed.

Speaker 3 (18:36):
And what that leads to is disease infestation and weakness
in the tree, which over time, these are the trees
you see blown over where the root ball gave out,
and I'm afraid that we will see a good bit
of that as we move forward in the.

Speaker 2 (18:53):
Next five to ten year period.

Speaker 3 (18:55):
So I wish they had better news than that, but
that's what I see.

Speaker 4 (19:00):
One little pointer for the folks that are out there
trying to do some bowl hunting. If you're struggling on
sind deer, which hasn't seemed to be you know, the
case for most people. Don't ever overlook where deer and
other analysts will consume this foliage and take that vegetation
in for their water source. It's it's amazing how well
these deer have capitalized on these lower areas and they're

(19:22):
eating and they're getting their moisture and their water content
from their diet.

Speaker 2 (19:27):
Yes, sir.

Speaker 3 (19:28):
All right, folks, coming back from break where we're talking
with Jason Lapardas he's the CEO for Turkeys for Tomorrow.
He's got a lot of information that's what's going on
in turkey world. We're going to talk about that turkey
survey and what happened at that special meeting with several
of the commissioners, all that more when we come back
from this break. This break is presented by Monciel Properties Realty.

(19:53):
Paul Thomas is a broker. Check out the listings at
mop h A r T realty dot com. All right, folks,
as I mentioned, we've got Jason Leapartist who's the chief
executive officer of Turkeys for Tomorrow. He's spent many, many
years in the conservation community. He is a extremely dedicated

(20:16):
wildlife biologist, and he was at this special called meeting
in Frankfort and Jason, I'll give you an opportunity to
speak to that here in a second. But folks, this
came on the heels of a survey that went out
to random hunters in the state asking if people would

(20:38):
be in favor of a one gobbler limit in the spring,
and a lot of us had alarm bells go off
about that because the harvest past year.

Speaker 2 (20:55):
Was right there with the five year.

Speaker 3 (20:57):
Average on harvest, and the harvest in two of those
years was at our near record proportions, so it kind
of had to scratch our heads. The survey was done
at the bequest of Second District Fishing Wilife Commissioner Jeff Ramer,
so I called Commissioner Ramer found him to be very,

(21:20):
very receptive and amiable. I pointed out some things about
the survey that I thought were biased. I discussed the
fact that we were at harvest levels. We both agreed
there are areas and pockets where the turkeys are having
a lot of trouble, but I didn't feel that changing

(21:43):
the gobal limit for those who are fortunate enough to
have enough turkeys to sustain a two bird limits should
be penalized. Now, this wasn't done statewide. That's one thing
I did have him clarify for me. This was meant
to be in the western zone west of by sixty five,
But my goodness, there's counties over there that are loaded

(22:07):
with turkeys. I talked with Harold Knight about this extensively
in an area around him down there and Christian and
lad between the lectionariat.

Speaker 2 (22:16):
They're loaded. They've had a great hatch.

Speaker 3 (22:19):
We've had an outstanding hatch across a lot of the state.
I sent that information and pictures from counties all over
the state up to Zach Danks, our Turkey biologists in
preparation for the meeting.

Speaker 2 (22:35):
So, Jason, thank god you.

Speaker 3 (22:39):
Were there because you were able to reveal a lot
of things to the three commissioners that were present that
I don't think they knew, no harm, no foul on that,
because that's why they had the meeting.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
And I will say that at the.

Speaker 3 (22:55):
End of the day, Commissioner Raimer realized that a lot
of that data that you provided, uh, said that this
was probably not a good idea at this time. So
with that, Jason, I'll give you the floor and let
you talk about what happened.

Speaker 5 (23:12):
All right, brother, I appreciate you having me on. It's
always an honor to cotee with other sportsmen that care.
And uh, you know, I I love turkeys, no doubt.
I've been I feel like in a lot of places
and even New Zealand. We may bring up here in
a bit where I got to see.

Speaker 2 (23:30):
Some things there.

Speaker 5 (23:31):
And so I came came back from a fresh Turkey
hunt and was invited to the Turkey Working Group meeting.

Speaker 4 (23:38):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (23:38):
Basically Zach Banks really helped reach out to everyone. Uh
and and was really this Turkey Working Group meeting was
structured to allow some of the outside interest gripts like
Turkeys for Tomorrow and the National Walth Turkey Federation to
have a seat at the table to help represent more
of the sportsman in Kentucky. And I think it's very important. Uh.

(24:01):
We had several people at that meeting, and I think
it was structured very well. Ben Robinson, the you know,
the Wildlife director was there. Uh, Dan Figer was there.
The assistant, really great guy, Zach Danks. He's basically the
Turkey program coordinator. And then uh, he's got more or
less like an assistant Jimmy Woods, which is the really

(24:22):
a Turkey program biologist. So good guys. And a couple
of guys from n WTF, one staff Derrick Calchayr and
then the state chapter president for n WTF, Scott Davis.
Both these guys I'm known from the past, and then
we had three of the commissioners as a part of this, Uh,
you're correct. Jeff Ramer out of second district was there,

(24:43):
Josh Cummings out of fifth District I believe, and then
Walter Robertson out of the ninth. So we had a
great representation across the state and there were a few
things on the table for discussion, and really, you know
is what Turkey's for Tomorrow is interested in is making

(25:04):
sure that we are following a really solid science foundation
and looking at all the data because at the end
of the day, we care about turkeys and we care
about turkey hunters and so so it was it was great,
no doubt Doctor Brad Cohen, which he did not attend,
but he did provide some fantastic data prior to this.

(25:29):
He has really some of the first research and everyone
at large is going to get to see some of
this at the upcoming commission meeting I believe on the
nineteenth this month. Of some of the data he's put together,
it's been a good project. He's out of Tennessee Tech.
You know, there's a banding project going on at the

(25:49):
same time. It's kind of fishing up that's under doctor
Chamberlaine of UGA. But doctor Cohen's data is really looking
at the things that we don't know anything about right now,
and this is going to help us make some really
wise decisions. And you know, at this meeting, you know,
I think people people are concerned because we have some

(26:11):
isolated wild turkey decline in many, many parts of this
state and there's some places that I've been there's just
a lot as many turkeys and it concerns me as well.
But statewide, we're just not seeing that. And what we
want to do is come to this meeting and really
provide information, factual information, so that we can make the

(26:33):
best decisions because it impacts me because I love hunt Kentucky.
It's my favorite place to hunt, and I want to
make sure that we're we're all taking the resources of
mind number one. So yes, the idea of trying to
you know, more or less change what you can harvest

(26:54):
at Cuba in the state, and really, you know, looking
at the last ten years, we've had two of our
most record book harvest and it's really hard to throw
out there that our birds on the state wide level
or in decline. Furthermore, when we looked at the years
when we had really quality cicada hatches. I'm kind of

(27:17):
a cicada guy. What we see and this is very
consistent across all the surrounding states with data from the past.
But when you have a cicada hatch, you basically have
a lot of foods for Turkey's every one, But more importantly,
you have predator pracious. Okay, And so what we're showing
is last year in the western part of the state,

(27:40):
we had two different broods that hatch at the same time.
And are the data shows that pulp production was very good.
I think it was about a one to four ratio ish,
So every hen pulled off and recruited about four polts
into the population. So what does that mean? A one

(28:02):
to two ratio means you have a stable population. It's
not really going up or down. And you said one
to four, we're cranking out some stuff and that's great. Well,
this year it was really cool to see just looking
at the numbers that from the hend of polte ratios
that was provided. But even in western Kentucky we had

(28:23):
a one to two point four, so we had a
little bit over two, which is good. But more importantly,
when we look at the center part of the state.
I live around Bowling Greens, you know, the central part
of the state, and then further east despite that crazy
rain we had that tend to really wash out a
lot of nest I think we had. Productivity was definitely down, however,

(28:48):
the nests that were pulled off. This is very important. Okay,
So the central farther the state had a one to
a three point seven Inndo Polte ratio, so that's really good.
And then even further east it was a one to four.
So once again, two years from now, we're gonna have
some really good harvest because we're gonna have a lot

(29:08):
of those loud mouths to year old birds out there,
and so it's it's really hard to try to justify
make it a big change when technically next year we
should see turkey hunting in the western part of Kentucky.
I'll be pretty dog one good because there's gonna be
a lot.

Speaker 2 (29:26):
Of two year olds.

Speaker 5 (29:27):
And then the subsequent year, pretty much the entire state
is gonna see some really higher turkey numbers out there.
And you know, mark my word today, but I'll tell
you right now, harvest is gonna be good. So when
you start looking at the numbers, it tells you that
we shouldn't be finagling with things right now because the

(29:49):
numbers are good. And on top of that, if we're
trying to make some changes into harvest confe, we got
to know how many people are turkey hunting. And I
will tell you right now, at the moment, we had
no clue, zero clue how many men and women and
kiddos turkey hunt Kentucky. Because the three real, real big

(30:12):
things here. One, if you buy a sportsman's license, which
I do. If you don't buy a sportsman's lisce, I'm
gonna courage you to do it, even if you don't hunt.
Everything support conservation in the state. But I buy one
of those, and you know, we don't know if everyone
that buys one of those actually hunts or not. Okay.
Number Two, if you're a private landowner, you don't have

(30:35):
to have a license, and so that's the second big
area where if you're a private land on the stud
of Kentucky and you're not buy a license, not reporting,
we have no clue. Number Three, if you're a senior,
once again, we just don't have a clue. And so
when we start looking at trying the best manage a population.
What do you know how many people are hunting? And

(30:55):
we do know, we do know that increase pressure on birds.
Do some studies done in Louisiana and down in Georgia
on basically GPS tag people and birds. We've seen birds
that have been moved out of their home ranges. Uh
and basically mortality rates tend to go up on birds

(31:17):
that move out of their home range. It's like, folks,
it's just like, and I use this analogy all the time.
It's like taking one of you, you folks, taking you
overseas to maybe Iran or something, dropping you out and going,
good luck. You gotta survive. Now, you might be really good,
a pretty good hunter, and maybe be a little you know,

(31:38):
survived the sandy environment, but the likelihood that you won't
survive is gonna be pretty high. It's the same things
with turkeys. They know what to do, but they're in
a new area and oftentimes that leads to mortality. Goes
the same thing for hens, whether it's a hen or gobbler,
they get bumped once or twice and by people, a

(31:59):
large prayer, maybe a bobcat, maybe us, maybe a fox,
maybe coldy, they could technically leave their home range. What
we did see was some of the additional out of
here is home ranges are pretty dog gone large here
for gobblers. We saw up to three thousand acres for
the home range of a turkey for a gobbless and folks,

(32:21):
that's between tip and six square miles.

Speaker 3 (32:24):
And Jason, there's a point there that I think we
need to emphasize because that range is that big, and
it's been shown to be that big. The notion that
hens aren't getting bred is a little bit flimsy, because
what's that gobley gonna do. He's gonna travel to find
a sweetheart. That's what they do. That's what they're genetically.

Speaker 2 (32:49):
Built to do.

Speaker 3 (32:51):
Yeah, you know, that's why turkey gobbles. He gobbles to
cover a large area to tell the hens in that area, Hey,
I'm here and I'm ready to breathe. Jason, Jason, I
got to go to a break here real quick, but
I want to return to a couple.

Speaker 2 (33:04):
Of things you said.

Speaker 3 (33:05):
Then, I've got an idea about how we can cure
this problem about not knowing how many hunters we got,
which I think we can all agree.

Speaker 2 (33:16):
If you don't know how many turkey hunters. You got.

Speaker 3 (33:19):
That's unacceptable. All right, folks got to go to break.
It's presented by SMI Marine.

Speaker 2 (33:24):
Go see them.

Speaker 3 (33:24):
Now, take great care of all your needs. The twenty
twenty five's are on sale with all kind of incentives.
And remember you never get soaked by my friends and
a SMI Jason there before the break, you had mentioned
about the cicadas, and I wanted folks to understand what
you meant. Predators love cicadas just like the turkeys. And

(33:48):
it's an all set you know, the coons and the
possums and what have you. When they got cicadas on
the menu within easy reach, they tend not to work
and a hustle so hard to raid the turkey ness.

Speaker 5 (34:01):
Correct, that's correct, that's correct. It's the whole prayer to
pray shift. It's well seen, well observed, and we see
all these other species including raptors, hawks, et cedri that
are really gorging themselves on cicadas and so on. Those
kind of events, what we see is a boom in

(34:22):
the population. That year, we tend to have higher recruitment
because now these gritters that would typically be picking off
a little polt they're not really actively searching because they're
full of food, and we have more of them survive.
And then two years later, boom, we have a really
good Turkey harfist because we got a lot of two
year old goblin.

Speaker 3 (34:41):
You know what else is cool? And you and I
have discussed this at length. Scott and I've been talking
about it. I was pleasantly shocked at the number of
polts I've seen in and on the areas this year,
and I thought they were going to be down because
all the rain we had.

Speaker 2 (35:01):
But you know what happened.

Speaker 3 (35:03):
They couldn't get into hayfields and in central Kentucky, in particular,
in portions of East Kentucky in the halls where they
have hey, they weren't able to get in the field.
Those those hens did a fantastic job keeping numbers of.

Speaker 2 (35:18):
Those pots alive.

Speaker 3 (35:19):
And I can tell you I expect those recruitment numbers
to actually escalate. I think they're going to end up
being bigger than we thought. I shared tons of pictures
of birds with six, eight, twelve up to fourteen polts
with our Turkey biologist, Zach Danks, and he was amazed
to see those numbers.

Speaker 5 (35:41):
Yeah, that's great. You hit on a very good point.
It's something that you know on some recent research that
Turkeys for Tomorrow helped fund out of Tennessee, but and
out of Iowa. I'll give you two states where we
found were mowing contributed to almost ten percent or better
to know where we're talking about of basically nast being

(36:06):
completely wiped out by mowing too early.

Speaker 3 (36:10):
Yep, yeah, it's a big problem. All right, Jason, I
got to go to break. Coming back to Break, I
want to talk about the survey and the flaws in it,
because I'm sorry it just was not a good survey.
And I also want to talk to you a good
bit about the data from other states that show reducing

(36:30):
limits doesn't work anyway. So folks, that'll be a really
good conversation. You don't want to miss it. Got to
go to break here. The break is presented by SMI Marine.
Go see them to take great care of all your
boating needs. They're great at troubleshooting your problems. Twenty twenty
fives are on sale, and remember you never get soaked

(36:52):
by my friends at sm I.

Speaker 2 (36:54):
All right, Jason, for break there, I asked.

Speaker 3 (36:59):
You to out what was wrong with that survey, and
I don't want folks to understand that this isn't just
my opinion, your opinion, Scott's opinion.

Speaker 2 (37:11):
This was the opinion of many of.

Speaker 3 (37:13):
The agency people they trained biologists who saw that survey,
and I'd like for you to share that in the
same vein, I want to point out how refreshing it
is that this new commission make up, these new commissioners
that have come on board are willing to talk to
us or willing to sit down and listen because thanks

(37:37):
to you, once they had that information about the survey
and or the number of agencies that have tried this,
it painted a different picture and that's what they needed
to hear.

Speaker 2 (37:50):
So I'd like you to explain that to folks.

Speaker 5 (37:54):
Yeah, sure thing. When I first saw the survey, I've
been a part of a lot of different wildlife survey
in my period wildlife and there's just some The very
first question is very misleading, and for some of you
folks out there that may not have read it, I
will quickly throw it off the top of my head.

(38:16):
But the first question, it basically says, hey, if you
if you were the only harvest basically one turkey, one
gobbler in the state of Kentucky. It basically says that
would you rather hear more gobblers and see more gobblers
by harvesting one bird, or would you rather continue harvesting

(38:37):
two birds up to two birds per year and seeing
and hearing less gobblers in the state. And that's you
just can't make that assumption that if you don't harvest
a bird, or you will harvest a bird, it's gonna
make you hear see more birds, because it really has
nothing to do with harvest it's productivity. And so when
I first saw that survey, when I had ship it

(39:00):
up at the Southeastern Wild Turkey Working Group meeting, that
is a meeting that is composed of all the South
Eastern state agency staff that's in the Turkey program. N
WTSTFT goes to that to have a voice and to
see what's going on all the states. And the quote

(39:20):
unquote turkey biologist for Kentucky was there, Jimmy, and I
asked Jimmy, I was like, could you bring that survey
up in front of the crowd, because I think that
that survey is going to be very eye opening. And
then what we heard very much from a consensus of
all the state agencies there. It was put out that

(39:40):
that was one of the most biased surveys they've ever seen,
because the survey can, if put together, incorrectly, lead one
down a pathway to get the result that you want
or may not want, okay, and so it's got to
be very unbiased, very open. And so when I heard that,
and I just brought that up at this meeting to everyone,

(40:03):
I think it kind of opened some mirrors and we
basically pulled the survey out and went through it and
was really agreed upon that that survey, if done in
the future, this working group that TFTNWKF and and Commissioners
everyone was a part of, would have buy into that
process to assure that we get the best survey going

(40:24):
out for trying to address something.

Speaker 3 (40:26):
And I think it's important to point out that, uh,
that survey when it was sent out wasn't targeting just
turkey hunters.

Speaker 2 (40:38):
It was it was what they called a random survey.

Speaker 3 (40:41):
And I got a big problem with that because you
got to ask turkey hunters what they think you want
because it wasn't ducks, it wasn't you know whatever, and uh.

Speaker 5 (40:51):
Yeah, it's it was a survey out to all hunters,
and I think they had about thirty five hundred Dish
respondents that they think that hunted, but may or may not.
And what's interesting is the results they got breaking it
out to people that didn't hunt and what they would
say to people that harvested two birds and how they responded,

(41:12):
and to people that harvested one bird and how they responded.
But if the survey is biased from the get go,
especially towards those people that didn't harvest a bird, it's
gonna make those people go, yeah, that's great, I didn't
harvest a bird. I'd love to hear more birds and
see more birds, you know. And all of a sudden

(41:33):
you have a big swing of a vote. And that
would have been like a thirty plus percent swing of
a vote. And so the results really didn't shake out
that a decision needed to be made just through the
demographics of through harvested birds or didn't harvest birds. But
I will comfortably say that if we had a very

(41:53):
unbiased survey go out, it may really show that people
were pretty dog unhappy with how are ructures in place.
And I'm gonna add one more thing here with productivity
data coming up, This is the first productivity data we've
ever had in state of Kentucky. Okay, this is a
big deal, and I'm gonna give doctor Cohen down Tessee
Tech big kudos of this work with state agency. But

(42:16):
we have now had data that shows when birds their
pink incubation period, which is basically when they're sitting on
the nest. And now we know that they're pink days
where there's more birds sitting on the nest in the
other time is around May sixth to the thirteenth. Now,
as you know, our season ends right around that May

(42:36):
six seventh ish every year, and so we're basically getting
out of the woods at the time where these hens
are doing what they need to and we don't need
to be in the woods bumping birds off nest because
they may evacuate that nest and we could cause even
more issues. So it's really good to finally see some
of this data supporting our season structure and knowing that

(42:58):
if we don't make any change, it's not gonna help.
And I'm want that one more thing out there real quick.
And this all goes with some discussion because it was
brought up that as an option, maybe we should just
throw out the fall season because it's gonna save birds.
So in theory, yeah, we have a few more hen
turkeys on the ground, or maybe be a few more gobblers,

(43:19):
but because it's something called compensitoor immortality, which is basically
means birds that's gonna naturally die from natural mortality with
this disease, old age, predation, etc. Those are the birds
that are you know, from a walleye population standpoint, that
we look at year to year that hunters except harvest Okay,

(43:40):
and so that's that exchange. If we are harvesting more
birds that naturally die, it is called additive mortality. And
in the case where we are right now, we don't
think that's going on statewide with what's happening, and so
survey says not so good. But basically the data says
we're in a good spot.

Speaker 3 (44:01):
Well, and Jason point yeah, and point out as you
did in the meeting that lots of states have tried
this and it did not make any impact.

Speaker 2 (44:13):
They did lower.

Speaker 3 (44:15):
Limitary did shorten seasons speak to that because to their credit,
these commissioners did not know that until you all shared
that data, which is why these meetings are so important
going forward.

Speaker 5 (44:30):
It is and I number one, I appreciate everyone at
that meeting. I appreciate the commissioners listening, their very attentive.
They care. You know, I'm telling you. They don't bring
up issues unless they care, And I think that's stuffing
to be proud of. Have commissioners that care but have
a good information. Like Tennessee, the research around of Tennessee,
even changing the dates for harvest had no impact on

(44:55):
the season structure, removal of the fall season. We have
not seen turkey numbers explode in any state that's done now.
So some of that stuff is just analogous and we
have to look back at the real issue. It is productivity.
It is not if we harvest one or two more birds.
Are we growing birds and putting them into the population.

(45:18):
That is the problem. The long term data shows productivity
is down in the state of Kentucky. It's in a
downwards kind of swing. It's not a swing, it's a trajectory.
And most states are seeing this. So there's one or
two things. It's either one. Everyone says, hey, it's habitat,
we have less habitat we ever have, well, we yes,

(45:38):
We've we've got more fragmentation, we've got more people in
the landscape. And yes, there are more buildings and homes
and concrete than we've ever seen since humans.

Speaker 2 (45:47):
Have been on earth.

Speaker 5 (45:47):
Okay, but are we producing good nesting and brood range. Okay,
if we had a sea of good habitat, then all
of a sudden things are good. But the reason why
you have to have good nesting and brooder range because
if you don't have that structure in place, they'd get
eaten by predators. Okay, that's a fact. And so here's

(46:09):
the two things. We can just say, hey, it's habitat,
or we can also go you know what, it is habitat.
But research shows with other species across the world, with
some predator management done correctly, we can improve a population.
I talk about this with by black quail ten to
fifteen percent one year trapping two two and a half

(46:30):
weeks out of the year. Boom, that's what you get.
I can serve that out on a dinner platter every
day of the week. We want to prove that for
turkeys on how we do this to bring turkey numbers back.
It's not if we harvest one extra bird this year,
it's how how do we get more hends producing what
they used to at the at the old when trapping

(46:51):
was that it's heyday and we had a lot of
fur harvest going on. If fur prices were through the roof.
And we can unpack this in Missouri or any other state,
but what we saw is turkey numbers were exploding at
that time, exploding. Now has habitat improved or went down

(47:13):
in such a matter? Since it may have come down
a little bit, But honestly, I don't think that habitat
overall is if we compare contrasts as much different. What
I think is there's less people out there trapping, we
have higher rapture numbers than ever because they come back
and more Prednor's equals more challenges on the landscape.

Speaker 3 (47:36):
Certain And we're going to talk to that a good
bit here after we go to this break, and we're
going to also talk about the situation where we don't
know how many turkey hunters we have. As I said earlier,
that's unacceptable. All right, folks, got a little break. It's
presented by Paul Thomas and Moncel Property's Heart Realty. Check

(47:57):
out all the current listings in mop h arealta dot com.
All Right, Jason and Scott. I want to try it out,
this idea, and before I do so, I want to
let everybody know that Scott Krohner had.

Speaker 2 (48:11):
A whole lot to do with that meeting.

Speaker 3 (48:14):
By that, I mean he reached out to the NWTF,
he reached out to Jeff Ramer, he reached out to
turkeys for tomorrow, and it all came together in a
way that turned out I think to be very very
satisfying for everybody involved, because without the cumulative knowledge and
without the data, you.

Speaker 2 (48:33):
Can't come to good decisions.

Speaker 3 (48:35):
Which leads me to my idea about how to cure
not knowing how many turkey hunters we have, and I
want you guys to comment on this after I roll
this out. We need a turkey permit and every hunter
that goes to the field needs to have that permit

(48:55):
in their possession. I think it ought to be free,
and I think it order mirror or work like the
hip survey that dove hunters have to fill out and
they have to have.

Speaker 2 (49:08):
A hip number. It's a very easy process.

Speaker 3 (49:11):
All someone that wants to hunt turkeys needs to do
would be to call in, get their turkey permit number
and then participate in a survey. After the season over.
It does several things. Jason, you mentioned that landowners and
sportsmen's license holders and others, we don't know if they're

(49:35):
even hunting, because if they don't kill a turkey, they're
not in the system.

Speaker 2 (49:39):
And we can't just keep.

Speaker 3 (49:40):
Managing by harvest data, loon. We need to know how
many hunters are out there. What I hope that folks
would realize this does. It gives every hunter a chance
to participate in the management of the turkeys. Don't be
providing the data that's so important for the properification of what's.

Speaker 2 (50:01):
Really going on.

Speaker 3 (50:02):
And folks, I hope you'll get behind this, and I
hope the commissioners will consider this because you folks are
the eyes and ears on the ground out there. You
spend all that time in the field, and I think
it just be.

Speaker 2 (50:19):
A really marvelous thing.

Speaker 3 (50:21):
And it could ask questions like do you trap or
do you allow people to trap? You could ask about
what was the number of jacks they saw compared to
mature gobblers, was there a scarcity? Did you bump birds
onto this? There's a lot of data that Zach Danks
or turkey bilogists could build into this and he needs

(50:44):
our help.

Speaker 2 (50:44):
Quite frankly, what do you guys think about that?

Speaker 5 (50:50):
Well, I need to start preaching here because you're spot on.
We need a foundation of information in order to help
us make very wise decisions. And honestly, I mean, I'll
tell you a TFT we've been talking about trying to
elevate all of us turkey hunters out there really as
the citizens scientists, because we really are the person that's

(51:13):
owed their own property or on their lease hunting or
on public ground, out there doing something. They know those
areas better than anyone else. And if we could start
getting information, we don't really want to know personal information.
We just need to know what we can do to
best focus on managing turkeys in the area, whether it's

(51:34):
habitat or folks manage a habitat. Are they seeing turkeys
in their place, or they seeing hens or they seeing gobblers?
All these little things, And honestly, with technology today, these
are a lot of really easy things that can be
integrated into really an application on the phone where you
could just click go inner information. But having a permitt

(51:56):
place it would be good for multiple species. I think
there's just some real data missing because of how our
licenses are structured. There's nothing this is nothing against anyone,
it's just.

Speaker 2 (52:08):
Where we are.

Speaker 5 (52:09):
But if we could get some information, I think it
would be fantastic. It almost be like a hip or
something where you know, like a migratory bird hunter, and
you get information to fill out. It's really short and sweet,
and it really helps everyone figure out what the heck's
going on with turkeys in the state, and then we
may be able to really focus in the area. What
if we have a guy that says, hey, I got

(52:31):
the best habitat. I made you like crazy, and all
these neighbors we see in this blanket in a whole county,
we had the best habitat around. I'm gonna I'm gona
have some fun. I'm in Warren County. Okay, Warren County
has the best habitat around, excluding Baula Green City. But
what we hear from the survey maybe is that, well, hey,
no one's trapping or whatever. Well, nobody really traps or

(52:54):
hunts prebers. And then we go back and look in
we well, man, turkey numbers are not really doing that great.
Now we can make some analogies to say, hey, you know,
maybe next steps is if we did a little bit
of pressure management here, we might be able to see
a turkey boost or vice versa. I think there's a
lot to come from that data, and I would be
super supportive of it.

Speaker 3 (53:15):
Now I have another aspect of it that I feel
very strongly about. To make this really good, in other words,
to put the shine on it. I think it ought
to be mandatory that folks have to fill out the
survey after the season, and the way to do that.
If we didn't hear from you, you're going to have
problems getting a permit.

Speaker 2 (53:36):
The following year.

Speaker 3 (53:38):
This is where you have to stand up and be
part of the solution instead of part of the problem.

Speaker 2 (53:45):
All right, folks, Amen got to go to break.

Speaker 5 (53:48):
Here.

Speaker 3 (53:49):
Coming back from break, we're going to talk about predators.
What Turkeys for Tomorrow is doing about predators. And while
I'm on a roll, I got another idea that I
think arty and play and all. Let's got them. Jason
fleshed that out as well. All right, folks, this break
is presented by SMI Marine. There are eleven four hundred

(54:11):
Westport Road. Just start with a spider.

Speaker 2 (54:14):
Go see them.

Speaker 3 (54:14):
They'll take care of all your body needs. Electronics. Remember
you never get soaked by my friends at SMI Scott,
I'd like you to speak to the points you've got
on your mind here.

Speaker 4 (54:30):
I think anytime that you allow the hunters to give
their facts and opinions that are actually pursuing the species
that is being managed, I think it's extremely important. Not
just the turkeys, though. When I heard your comment about
the survey that you would like to see go out

(54:51):
to hunters, I hope all of our commissioners that are
appointed listen loud and clear on this. I'm tired of
picking up the phone and doing what I'm supposed to
do in the logistics of contacting my local commissioner and
being limited to my voice and my opinion and my

(55:12):
facts of what's going on in counties that are outside
of the district and which I'll live in my entire life.

Speaker 2 (55:21):
I grew up as a.

Speaker 4 (55:22):
Young child in Odham County, Kentucky, and did all of
my turkey hunting in western Kentucky. I also live in
Muhlenberg County right now, in hunt in other counties outside
of the Second District. These surveys and this information that
needs to be collected in the way that our commissioners

(55:44):
do need to operate and run. For the ones that
are only listening to the folks that live within their district,
you're making a huge mistake. So I commend you and
Jason both for being politically correct about the survey. Me personally,
I wasn't much of a fan of it. But I'm

(56:06):
telling you, we've got to start listening to our sportsmen
and women of the common of the Commonwealth, because we
all hunt across our district lines for the most part,
we travel for multiple species. We need to come together
as a whole as a state and stop to buy
themselves our own local districts.

Speaker 2 (56:27):
And I'll just leave it right there.

Speaker 3 (56:29):
Well, Scott, what you said is very well spoken, and
of course the survey you objected to was the one
that was biased. But the thing about this permit and
the survey that would go with it, to your point,
it will allow commissions in different to compare what's going

(56:50):
on in their district versus another. That way, when they
get to vote on something, if it's a statewide issue,
they'll be more informed about what might be an issue
in the second district that isn't an issue in the
eighth for example. I'm just you know, we're using some
arbitrary numbers, but I think it's important. Jason, you talked

(57:14):
about predators, and anybody that knows me and knows Scott
and any that know you know that we're really keen
on predator management, and I want to bring up something
that I think is overdue, and I'm gonna make a
statement that's to the point. In recent decades, there's been

(57:39):
too much emphasis on protecting predators instead of our game species.
And I'm not talking about Kentucky fishing wildlife. I'm talking about.

Speaker 2 (57:49):
Pretty much across the board.

Speaker 3 (57:52):
And that was due to things like the hawks were
exposed to DDT and all the things that went with it.
But with the coons in particulars as harmful as they
are to species like turkeys, everybody knows they're an explosion.

Speaker 2 (58:09):
I mean, there's coons everywhere you go.

Speaker 3 (58:12):
And I think it's time that we move off of
managing for fur production because let's face it, there's just
not that many trappers out there, and not only that
furs aren't worth much, guys can't afford the trap. But
I'm tired of seeing private wildlife managers handcuffed by regulations

(58:36):
that don't take into account the problems they have managing
game species on their property.

Speaker 2 (58:42):
Here's where I'm going with this.

Speaker 3 (58:45):
I think it's time to consider a dog proof because
I don't want anyone's dog's harm. Don't want someone's coonhound,
or bird dog or labrador retree with us in the field.
I think we need to allow the predator proof traps
from August first, for the time folks start feeding for deer.

(59:07):
Here's why I say that, that's when they can index
or understand how many coons are on their property.

Speaker 2 (59:15):
Because I can promise you.

Speaker 3 (59:17):
Talk to anybody's goot, you and I talked about this,
trail cameras will show you that real quick, and it's
a mind blower in most areas of the state. And
that gives you an opportunity to control those coon numbers.

Speaker 2 (59:30):
And I like to take it a step further.

Speaker 3 (59:33):
We certainly allow dog proof traps for coons only all
the way up until the start of the turkey season.
Why because that way you've eliminated them as the next
predator at the most critical time. I just can't say
how much I think we're going to have to stop

(59:55):
worrying so much about the predators. I'll give you an example,
and it's a good one.

Speaker 2 (59:59):
I think.

Speaker 3 (01:00:01):
Our commission has been smart enough to liberalize the bobcats season.

Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
They made it longer. They're giving us a bigger harvest.

Speaker 3 (01:00:10):
That to me is analogous to what I'm putting out
here for the coons. We need to expand that again
to keep from handcuffing private land managers from being able
to do what they need to do to have more turkeys,

(01:00:30):
to have more credits on the ground. What do you
guys think about that, Scott, I think.

Speaker 4 (01:00:38):
That you've got to look at how sportsmen and women
are traveling up and down the road and how much
time they have. You have longer daylight hours in the summer,
So what you're getting to is you would be able
to put your dog proof traps out, foot grab traps
for specifically, you know, the smaller predators like their raccoon

(01:00:59):
in and around on areas where people are feeding, deer
around feeders or corn on the ground. Basically is what
we're getting at. You're going to have a successful catch
because you're dealing with so many young coons as well,
so you know, you can pretty much wipe out the
whole pike if you'll stay on top of it. The

(01:01:20):
most important thing when it comes to trapping is currently
with the laws, rules regations about how often those traps
have to be checked, is you have to allow the
people to trap at times when they've got the availability
of time and that resources there. So yeah, it works out,
I think extremely well. The other thing that would be

(01:01:45):
very beneficial, and it's something that you haven't talked about yet,
but with the growing amount of thermal imaging, there's a
lot of people who could legally go out and do
some of this is of actual hunting with rim fire
star rifles and be you know, pretty detrimental to the

(01:02:07):
coon population. The fact of the matter is no one
wants to get in a way of the houndsman or
the sport of coon hunting, and no one really wants
to get into the economic downfall of anything with the economy.
But unfortunately furs aren't selling real well, they're not being
utilized like they used to. And I've got a lot

(01:02:28):
more people knocking on my doors and asking me questions
about deering turkey hunting than going out and running their
coon dogs. I mean, times have changed. So get the
traps out, get them caught, kill them, right and get
rid of them and start working towards our turkeys. I mean,
those are game species and it can get just as

(01:02:49):
debatable versus you know, invasive native species content. But folks
want turkeys, and in revenue wise, turkeys are bringing in
a whole lot more money than raccoons are. So I
don't know which side you want to argue, But if
it's economics or if it's just what the hunters want,
if we listen to what the sportsmen are wanting, there's

(01:03:09):
more people wanting turkeys and wanting coons.

Speaker 2 (01:03:12):
Well, I'm private Jackson.

Speaker 5 (01:03:21):
Yeah, y'all, y'all are spot on and you know, hitting
on this, and it's really interesting. We're we're finding some
research out at Alabama right now, doctor Goolsby, on looking
at some of these predators around feeders particularly. It's a
brand new study. It's it's been kicked off this past
year and and you know, preliminarily or and what we've

(01:03:42):
seen other places that if you're putting a lot of
feed out for deer, we could probably save you a
lot of money if you have put some dogproof traps
out around your feed er, if you could trap coons
at that time, Because what we're seeing is rodents maybe
eating up to fifty five to sixty percent of all
the feed in that feeder. That's a lot. And so

(01:04:03):
think about that. What we also can do is draw
a consentric circle around all these feeders, and we notice
that ground nesting song birds are not successful at all
around feeders, and because there's more creditors there. I mean,
it's it's very basic, very basic.

Speaker 3 (01:04:20):
Well it is. And and again I'll put it this way.
I know that some folks will oppose, is all. We
don't want to exterminate couns. Listen, we are at all
time unbelievable numbers of raccoons out there, and if there's
a need to pull back on that, and that's fine,
but uh, I'll put this way. With the number of

(01:04:43):
coups we got and we're seeing some of this, you're
gonna have rabies epidemics, you're gonna have parbo epidemics, You're
gonna end up having all kinds of bad disease outbreaks, made,
et cetera. We're seeing rabies again now and there's no doubt, dude,
to the large number of these fur bearers that are

(01:05:04):
out there. And unless we deal with this we're just
gonna be plowing in the mud. I'm sorry, but predations
is a big part of this picture period.

Speaker 2 (01:05:18):
Grade.

Speaker 5 (01:05:19):
It's huge. It's an exclamation point, and I'll add this further.
In some states, we're seeing some species such as a
raccoon and or apossum really categorized with the syntax of
being a varmint, just like a cavity. In many plastic
cavities are not native to the Eastern US. Most people

(01:05:40):
may or may not know that they have immigrated here,
but many species are now they're having really more or
less an open season where they have pulled away restrictions
for private landowners. In some states we have seen special
permits that people have to get in order to trap
or remove some of these other meso predators, meso mammals,

(01:06:02):
and basically these meso predators, these smaller four legged mammal
critters such as could be a fox, could be a bobcat,
could be a cavity, could be a skunk, uh it
could be a possum, could be a raccoon. There's a
whole slew of them. It depends on where you are.
You may have a little bit more than another. But
I will tell you this and we have some time
to really break this down. I'll tell you that TSD

(01:06:26):
we are looking to figure out this problem and to
really come up with some solutions for all states to
figure out what to do. We know it works really
well for Bob Whiteqwelt's been studied, research thrown around a lot,
but we're gonna we're gonna do the same for turkeys.

Speaker 3 (01:06:42):
Well, that's that's major and we'll give you an opportunity
to flush that out here after the break. But before
we close this out again, we are in a new era.

Speaker 2 (01:06:54):
We can no.

Speaker 3 (01:06:55):
Longer af forward if we care about our game species
to overprotect the creditors. They're having the kind of impact
they're putting on it because they're the furs are not
gonna sell and they're not enough people trapping. If we
could get to wildlife management, people from private property engaged
and replacing that hole that exists.

Speaker 2 (01:07:17):
More prior to it.

Speaker 3 (01:07:18):
All right, folks got to go to breakfast presented by
Mantal Properties. Aren't Realty check them out m O P
h A R Trealty dot com, Jason any other big
programs that Turkeys for Tomorrow's got going on right now
you'd like to share, and I'd like you to talk
a little bit at New Zealand where you had that

(01:07:38):
big trip over there to hunt turkeys and understand what's
going on over there.

Speaker 5 (01:07:44):
Yeah. Absolutely, just real quick. Yeah, we're we're standing up
an eighth state pred to Prey project that's gonna be
really the largest prayer to pray study ever done in
North America, from Pennsylvania to Oklahoma and then the South
eastern states. Doctor Harper, doctor Bueller out of University Tennessee

(01:08:05):
is going to be really spearheading that. Tall Timbers is
one of our key partners, but we have researchers from
a bunch of universities. Doctor Lasht out of University of Florida,
we have doctor Goulds, we had Alabama out of Auburn,
excuse me, a state of Alabama, and then doctor Turner
and doctor culture Chip would out of Oakhom State over

(01:08:28):
in Oklahoma. So we have a big crowd of folks
that's really going to help us stand this up. We've
already raised some money. The National Trappers Association and the
National Trappers Foundation have already worked with us, and so
we've already secured about twenty five percent of all the
funding for this four year study. It's a big deal

(01:08:49):
and we're really trying to come up with a means
to help any landowner, public or private landowner on how
to better manage for the species we love. And what
we talked about right now is turkeys, and so that's
a big deal to us. Along the same lines with predators,
we recently did go to New Zealand. We have a

(01:09:11):
great outfitter over there that has worked with us, and
Scott was very instrumental to help bring people together early
on with that. And Scott and I we had discussions
a lot of folks almost two years ago and my
big interest from the TFT standpoint is I hear that
turkey populations are doing really well over in New Zealand
and I wanted to know more about that. So long story,

(01:09:34):
very short here is that the key outfitter over there
with New Zealand Turkey Hunts basically was able to provide
us for a few free slots to come over spend
some time with them, basically paid for several of us
to be there, and allowed me some time to get around,
meet with some folks and get a better understanding on

(01:09:55):
the landscape of what's going on and for me to
go somewhere where turkey numbers are really abundant, where we're
seeing twenty to fifty gobblers in a group on different tracks,
I want to know what was going on. And what's
interesting is they just don't have the same predator numbers,
are the same types of predators we do. So they

(01:10:16):
have a few pe mammalian preaders on the ground, all
introduced basically weasels stoakes, which is very interesting, and then
truly a long tail of possum. And then the other
one that has went rampant is a feral cat cats
that have been released. They become a big problem on

(01:10:39):
the landscape. And we have some stories to tell here
pretty soon from TFT to showcase problems with those species.
But most of those are nothing like a bobcat. There's
nothing like a quote unquote fox. They're definitely nothing like
a cavity on some of these larger predators that we
have in Nord. Do they have the habitat struck Sure,

(01:11:00):
we have across most of the US where we have
a lot of dense areas, a lot of wooded areas,
a lot of heavy shrub areas and out there. It's
pretty dog gone open most everywhere you go. And so
what we see is turkey numbers tend to do a
little bit better over there. And that was the biggest
takeaway is how do we showcase to the world where

(01:11:20):
in the lack of predators are predator numbers in general
only a couple of raptors that even give them an issue.
You see turkey numbers growing. So let's take that example
here and not having as many predators as some places,
and we should see turkey numbers grow here as well.

Speaker 2 (01:11:37):
What's the matter? Jack Jason?

Speaker 3 (01:11:39):
Tell folks how to get more info about Turkeys for Tomorrow.

Speaker 2 (01:11:42):
Real quick, very thaning.

Speaker 5 (01:11:45):
Y'all can find us anywhere Turkeys for Tomorrow dot org,
find us online. We're on all the social platforms, Facebook, LinkedIn,
and Instagram, you name it, you can find us. Come
see us.

Speaker 3 (01:11:56):
Very good sir, and folks, there isn't vision Wilife Commission
meeting this coming Friday. Please if you see merit and
some of the things we discussed tonight, call your district commissioner.
Tell them you like the idea of the turkey permitt
It's free.

Speaker 2 (01:12:13):
It'll give us all.

Speaker 3 (01:12:14):
Kinds of data if you are with us on the
predator controlling the church and the trappings. Let your commissioner
know that's the way this works. I think you'll find
this new group's pretty receptive to hear them from you.
All right, folks, that's all for tonight. Be careful out there.
God bless everybody.