October 30, 2025 • 23 mins
Maria chats with global activist and journalist Nina Jackel, the founder of Lady Freethinker, the international non-profit animal protection organization. Their mission is to end pet abandonment; expose puppy mills; advocate for animal legislation and so much more!!
Learn more at LADYFREETHINKER.
Learn more at LADYFREETHINKER.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's Maria's MutS and Stuff.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
What a great idea on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Welcome to Maria's Mutts and Stuff. And with me is
Nina Jackal, who is the founder of Lady Freethinker. But
she's a huge animal advocate and she's done so many
for so much, for so many. So Nina, thank you
for taking some time out today.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Yeah, thank you for having me Maria and for being
a voice for the animals. I love what you're doing.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Well good because a feeling is mutual. But let's talk
about Lady Freethinker. How did that all come about?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Yeah, so I have a journalism background, but I've also
always had a deep, deep love for animals, you know,
ever since I kind of fell in love with my
childhood dog, Peggy. And you know, I always, you know,
wanted to do something to help animals, you know, kind
of always there in the back of my mind. And
(00:59):
you know, as I was working as a freelance journalist
and you know, taking on assignments that were given to me,
you know, whether I was really interested or not. You know,
I decided to start a blog at the time where
I could write about the things that I really cared about,
you know, which turns out to be animals. Yeah, of
(01:20):
course exactly. So you know, the more I I wrote,
the more I really got into it. And you know,
I'm very grateful that I was able to build an
audience of people who also really love animals just like
I do. And a couple of years into it, I
decided to you know, make it a nonprofit media organization
(01:41):
at the time and you know, be really an official charity,
you know, mission driven. And since then, the organization has
grown and we do you know, a lot more than
publishing articles now, although that's still a very large part
of what we do because as you know, you know,
raising awareness is really everything. Sure, you know, if you
(02:04):
don't expose animal lease, then it never really stops. So
you know, a big part of our work skill is
daily publishing. We also distribute a lot of petitions so
that people can very easily add their voice to seek
out against animal cruelty. And then we'll pass those signatures
on to policymakers to say, hey, you know, the public
(02:24):
is paying attention, they're not going to tolerate animal abuse,
and you know, they want you to take action. And
now we also do have a grant program so that
we can help animals on the grounds, which I'm very
happy to do. You know, it's great to work on
animal cruelty campaigns, but it's also it warms your heart
(02:46):
to actually see the animals help in real time. So
right sponsor mostly small local organizations with little means. We
help them with food, shelter, veterinary or effort things that
they may need to you know, directly help the animals too.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
That's amazing. I mean, wow, you know, you do so much.
And the fact that you're using the grants to help
all of these small rescues and people who actually need
the help, I mean, that's that's pretty amazing.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
I think you know it is.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
It is because I mean, so there are I feel
like there are just so many in the country, and
you know, and it's difficult because I think, you know,
the whole animal welfare, the whole thing about it. I
feel like it's come so far over the years, but
obviously it's never going to be far enough until until
we have no kill shelters and we get rid of
puppy mills and all that. And I feel like it's
(03:40):
getting closer, but uh, you.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Know, we still have a long way to go.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Yes, well, for those who are listening, they can learn
more about it by going to Ladyfreethinker dot org and
that's where they can learn all about you and and
all of the amazing work that you do. So what
do you think I mean, I know, we just touched
on like puppy mills and no kill and what do
you think with animal rescue right now in twenty twenty
(04:07):
five is biggest or you know, one of the Yeah,
one of the biggest problems.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Well, yeah, that's a tough one because there's so many
and they all matter. You know, by the numbers, there's
more cruelty going on on factory farms for the food
industry than any other you know, so you know, by
the numbers and you know methods used, I would say
that's probably the biggest. Sure, But in terms of you know,
(04:36):
what's happening right in our backyards so to speak, you know,
overpopulation is just a massive, massive problem. You know, I
live in Los Angeles where we have a you know,
really an epidemic of overpopulation of shelters and that you
know obviously results in animals be killed or with not
(04:58):
being helped. So the neoter is so critical, so critical
right now, and then along with that goes, you know,
stopping those puppy mills and those breeders who are you know,
not only you know, very often neglecting and you know,
sometimes abusing those dogs and very often raising them in
(05:21):
really deplorable conditions, but also contributing to that overpopulation so
that they're even more you know, hads to languish and
shelters and end up getting killed.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I think, yeah, I think that.
To me, that's like I guess equally, you know, the
problem the Spain Nooter and people don't do that, and
then the fact that there are puppy mills, so you know,
the deplorable conditions, and you know, there are people because
I'm sure you know, just like I do. You talk
to people and they go, well, what's a puppy mill?
And I'm like, are you kidding? You know, but there
(05:55):
are people and a good amount of people who don't
they're not aware that when they go into a store
and they buy, you know, and stores always lie and say, oh,
you know, we have it comes from a reputable breeder.
That's always my favorite. And I'm like, wait, you know,
like they don't and they don't know that that you
know that puppy or that kitten came from a puppy
(06:16):
mill because they don't know what that is. And I
just find that right like scratching your head over it,
like really but exactly.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
And there's so many unscrupulous breeders. Yeah, you know, we
actually just finished a report on puppy mills in Pennsylvania
and this includes both licensed and unlicensed dog breeding kennels
because a lot of these breeders, you know, even though
they should be licensed under the law, they're not, and
they try to fly under the radar. And then you
(06:47):
know what might happen is they might get a citation,
but then they can just apply to be licensed and
end up still operating like it's it's kind of insane,
you know, even after being cited for not just operating legally.
But you know, sometimes animal coolty and abuse, it's just
like okay, well, you know, maybe they'll be on probation
for a little while, but then they can just go
(07:07):
ahead and keep their animals and continue reading. And then
you know, those dogs end up in test doors or
sometimes they're sold online, you know, the online of headsails
and another that's a big problem.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Yes, you're in my head.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
I was just going to say that, like that to
me is even It's just I don't even know if
it's worse or it's just as bad.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
It's because people believe that, Oh but it's so beautiful.
It's a little puppy.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
On grass, Like, do you realize it's like you're not real?
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Yeah, I'm not.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Feeling it's so easy for them just to stage that shot,
right little puppy that you know that, you know, moments
in the grass might be the only time that puppy
has seen the outdoors in.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Weeks exactly exactly the se uh huh.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
So even if the grass is even real in the shot,
because I think that sometimes it's not even real. It's like,
you know, like when you bring a baby to a
photo shoot at a department store.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
You know, it's like.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Right, yeah, I mean it's I have no doubt that
that happened.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
I know, I know.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
I mean, I just feel like, I mean, I feel
like I don't know, just to try to be positive
that it's a little bit better than it has been
over the years, but I mean you would know better
than me. I just feel like, on the flip of it,
it's not at all because all of these puppy mills
still exist and all these pet stores, you know, some
get shut down. Some states you know, have laws that
(08:23):
you can't sell puppies and kittens from a store. Yeah,
but I feel like, why is it taking so long?
You know, I can feel impatient about it.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Yeah, so do I I agree. I mean it's very
promising that we do have more and more states that
are you know, banning pets sales. And you know, in
Pennsylvania there's actually a proposed bill. You know, Pennsylvania is
a hot spot for them, the puppy mill. Yes, so
there is a bill called Victoria's Law that you know,
(08:55):
if it's passed, could could make a really big difference.
And it's named after a dog called Victoria, who was
a ninety pound German Shepherd who was just crammed into
a crate and she's actually lost the ability to walk
from a genetic disease, but she was still forced to
breed over and over again for ten years. She actually
(09:16):
first one hundred and fifty puppies. Yeah, and those puppies
inherited her disease, which is something that you see a
lot of these years because they're just you know, churning
out these these sick puppies and then unwitting people, you know,
don't realize that they're buying an animal that's going to
need a lot of serious veterinary care. And then what
(09:38):
happens to the animal. Maybe they end up in the shelter,
maybe they dub euthanized, you know, the tragic day. But
you know, hopefully legislators will pass Victoria's Lot and that
you know, will will help. But you know, I agree
that it's we're not close to solving the problem. But
but we've come a long way. And you know, now
(10:00):
usually when I talk to somebody and they mentioned their dog,
in most cases they rescue the dog in most cases, yeah,
the shelter dog. Yes, you know, not always. Then you know,
you still get that, oh well it was a repubable breeder.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Yeah, I always love that.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
And when people say that to me, and I try
not to be you know, like rude about it.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
But why why is it reputable?
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Like have you been going to the same breeder for
years and years or do you know someone who also
had you know, adopted, i mean, bought a dog from
the same breeder and you know, not not that it
makes it better, but it makes it like a tag
better but not that much. But yeah, I know it's
the same thing, but I do. I know, I feel
like I know more people now who rescue an animal
(10:45):
than before.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
But then again, and it's probably the same for you.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
If they knew, if they know who we are and
what we do, they probably are afraid to say that
they bought a pet.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Oh, definitely, definitely, that's true. Yeah, that's the only thing
of them.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Yes, yeah, I know it's terrible.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
I don't mean to be so negative, but yeah, I
know it's terrible.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
But I also and this is another thing.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
And I'm sure you can help me on this what
I find more and tell me if you've noticed the
same thing. I just feel like the way the economy
is and the way you know, people have lost their jobs.
I just keep hearing that shelters are starting to get
overcrowded again, more so right because people have to give up,
(11:31):
which I for me, and I'm sure and for you
and for probably most people who are listening, if they
had to give up their animal, they would not eat
so their animal could eat.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
You know.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
But there are people I get it, you know, who
have like large families or on a fixed income or
whatever the reason, and they have to give up their pets.
And I just feel like it's really increased, like in
the past couple of months.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
I have seen that.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
I don't have the day, but it does seem that way.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
That way.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Yeah, I remember, you know during the pandemic, when everybody
bought their pandemic you know, puppy or kitten, and then
you had that same problem after the pandemic, you have shelters,
and yeah, you know, when times are tough, it's the
animals to really, you know, suffer first. I mean, everybody's suffering.
I don't want to minimize human suffering because right, no,
(12:23):
I know, obviously something that to solved. To you course,
of course, you know the animal is going to be
the one returned to the shelter.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Yeah, yeah, which which isn't fathomable to me and to you.
But I under but I understand what people are in
such dire straits. And I mean I'm also seeing and
I see this on social media a lot also lately
that I see people are getting deported and their pets
are left behind, and yeah, and I see that so much,
(12:52):
and I'm like, you know, because a lot of times
with anything with social media, then I have to vet
it because is that true?
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Is it?
Speaker 3 (12:59):
Ai? Is it?
Speaker 1 (13:00):
You know, it's it's very complicated. It's just like it's
very frustrating these days.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
It's very hard to tell truth from fiction on social media,
even with rescues. Yeah, we work a lot on animal
cruelty on social media. Actually, that's one of our bigger
issues that we're constantly tracking and monitoring, you know, animal
abuse for entertainment. And you know, along with that is
this sort of fake rescue epidemic where you know, the
(13:31):
animals are actually put into these horrible situations on purpose
and then somebody you know, pretends to go in and
save them and you know, oh wow or no other
paypalink wow. Yeah, you definitely have to be careful. I
have a little love topic, but.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
No, no, no, but that's no, that's on topic. That's
I mean, I don't want to say it's fascinating, but
I am not even aware of that. Like that's insane. Yeah,
that's really awful. People are just so awful.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Being diligent is just crucial and it's usually not that
hard to research a rescue organization. Sure, that's true, you know,
and they're telltale signs like if they don't disclose their location,
which is very common, or you know, they don't really
even have an organization, and a lot of these pages
are listed as something like totally different, like a you know,
(14:24):
a media company or a you know, marketing company. Is like,
well that's weird. Yeah, they're not too hard, but usually.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Well, just do your homework.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
No, that's actually very good advice to give to people,
because you know, so often you you, oh, well, I
got this dog. I bought this dog on Craigslist and
it's like, what, you know, so these are That's a
really good tip to give for someone who's listening, because
especially you know, these places that aren't real, and of
course they pull at the at our heartstring and you know,
(15:02):
sometimes it's human nature.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
You can't help it.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
And then you go, oh wait, what did I just
give money to? Or who do you have a staff
that actually monitors all of that?
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Wow, that's pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
For the past how five this year, we've been chatting
that you know, I feel like in twenty twenty and
it's been probably happening since the birth of social media
in some way, but it seems to really kind of
take off around twenty twenty, you know, during the pandemic
for whatever reason, and people sort of figured out that
they could, you know, abuse animals, and you know, there
(15:38):
are people who actually enjoy watching animals suffer. You know,
it's called zoo sadism, which is a different issue than
the fake rescues. But they also found their way to
social media insane. I'm not going to go into the details, right,
but it's just awful. Yeah, it is, Yeah, it is.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
So so walk me through so with your staff, say,
and they're doing some tracking and then they find you know,
like a fake rescue that's just trying to collect money.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
What like, what are the steps? What happens next?
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Yeah? So you know, first and for more foremost you
want to report it. You know, every social media platform
has their own you know system for doing that and
does it always work. No, they're not the best at
moderating animal cruelty content, which is why we're camp fanning
sure to stop it and you know, get stronger accountability
(16:31):
for that. But but you still always want to do
that because in many cases the video will be removed eventually.
You know, usually more than one person has to report it,
and it might take a while, but it's you know,
we do see it happen. You know, if something is
blatantly illegal and we know the location, will you know,
reach out to law enforcement in that area, or if
(16:53):
it's a federal crime, because in the United States, there
are certain types of animal cruelty videos that are illegal
under the Preventing Animal Cruelty and Torture Act, which is
relatively new, it was signed into law in twenty nineteen.
But if a video shows really extreme abuse like dismemberment, killing, burning,
things like that, then that's going to be a federal crime.
(17:15):
And so we actually do work with federal agencies, including
Homeland Security investigations and the FBI. They actually do take
those cases seriously. I'm you know, very happy to say, and.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Which is good, Yeah, it is, It's excellent. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
You know, you think Homeland Security, you think, you know,
many different things, but one thing that they do.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Right, they do that, right, Yes, exactly, they do.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Yeah, they do. And so in you know, one sort
of phenomenon of this very deep dark world of people
who enjoy watching baby bunkys being tortured. You know, global
rings involved, and you know, there have been international things
(18:02):
where people in Indonesia have been arrested for making the videos,
and then people in the US who are purchasing the
videos in the UK, you know, have been prosecuted. So
there's actually been a lot of global cooperation on that also. Good.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
That's great.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Yeah, no, it is good.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
You know.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Unfortunately, the videos still like to make their way to
the social media sometimes because people just want to share
them for some strange reason.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
So, yeah, people are so weird. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Yeah, they're very weird.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
They're just so weird.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
That's why we love animals so much, because people are
just like really like, what's wrong with you?
Speaker 2 (18:38):
You know exactly? Yeah, exactly?
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Did you have no friends growing up? Could that be it?
I mean, you know, it's just I just don't. I know,
it's terrible to say, but I mean, like, I just
I just don't understand. And the older I get, it's
more and more difficult to be honest.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Yeah, I know, I know. I think, you know, animals
feelings are just diminished in people's and they don't understand
that we are animals too, and yes, those animals experience
the same suffering and the same feelings, and I think
that it's hard for some people to wrap their heads around,
(19:13):
you know, maybe because of cultural reasons, or because of
the way they were raised.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
Or all the above.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Probably Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Yeah, No, I think you're right, And I think I
think sometimes, well not usually all the time, if it's
someone who just has just no regard for an animal's
feelings or suffering, well, if you can do that or
feel that way about an animal, then you probably have
no problem doing that to a human, you know, because
that usually goes hand in hand as well.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Absolutely, yeah, And I mean I'm sure you know this,
but you know, the people who are giving horrfic crimes
against humans very often it.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
Started with animal with animals.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Yeah, like the serial killers they started, you know, they
were torturing a cat when they were five, you know, yes,
and that's not just made up, that's facts.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Yeah, yeah, it's really Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
But you and your organization are doing such great work
and cracking down and finding people and finding sites. So
you know, more power to you for doing this, Nina,
because you know, no seriously, because we need more people
like you, you know, the good guys. So yeah, So,
if there was one piece of advice, I mean, and
(20:21):
it might not be one, but if there's like one
piece of advice you would want to share with, you know,
anyone who is thinking about owning a pet or you know,
adopting a pet, or doesn't know anything about animals and
needs what what's like one if there's one thing, and
maybe you said it already that you know they're like us,
that they got feelings and emotions and everything else.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
But is there something else?
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Yeah, I mean that's obviously a very important one to
you know, treat them as though you know, you would
want to be treated and be in tuned to their
feelings because they do communicate with you and usually will
tell you what they want or when they need something
or when they're suffering. You know. Also, just speaking to
what you said earlier about the you know, pets going
(21:06):
back to shelters and abandonment, you know, I think it's
important for people to understand that it is a financial
commitment and you know, beyond just the food and you know,
the kitty litter, if it's a cat, there will be
vet bills. You know, sometimes they can be pricey. You know,
it's a good idea to get pet insurance, you know,
(21:27):
if you're able to, because if something catastrophic happens, you know,
that can mean the difference between U sure, you know,
the animals getting the treatment they need or not. But yeah,
I think you know, understanding that commitment in general, you know,
you're really taking on a life that is going to
need things, not that unlike having a child, and it's
(21:50):
really your responsibility to make sure that that animal is
happy and healthy and loved and you know, has a
good life. So basically you are the one responsible for
that animal's life now for you know, maybe twenty years.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Yeah, no, you're right, that's perfect.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Yeah no, that is something huge to think about, and
I think sometimes people don't so I think that's a
great piece of advice. I really do. So thank you
for that one. So for those who are listening, it's
Nina Jackal and she is the founder of Lady Freethinker
and you can see all of the stuff that they
do and it's a nonprofit. So if the holiday season
(22:30):
is coming, if you'd like to make a donation and
to keep the cause going, I'm sure it would be
welcomed at Ladyfreethinker dot org. It's Lady Freethinker Altogether dot org.
So Nina, thank you, thank you for taking the time out,
thank you for all that you do. More power to you,
you know, keep on fighting the good fight.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
No, thank you, it's been a pleasure to speak with you.
Thank you for having me on and for you know,
using your voice for good well.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
Thanks, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Sharon has never been a raider operator and this want
see a raider lavigator
It's Maria's MutS and Stuff.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
What a great idea on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Welcome to Maria's Mutts and Stuff. And with me is
Nina Jackal, who is the founder of Lady Freethinker. But
she's a huge animal advocate and she's done so many
for so much, for so many. So Nina, thank you
for taking some time out today.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Yeah, thank you for having me Maria and for being
a voice for the animals. I love what you're doing.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Well good because a feeling is mutual. But let's talk
about Lady Freethinker. How did that all come about?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Yeah, so I have a journalism background, but I've also
always had a deep, deep love for animals, you know,
ever since I kind of fell in love with my
childhood dog, Peggy. And you know, I always, you know,
wanted to do something to help animals, you know, kind
of always there in the back of my mind. And
(00:59):
you know, as I was working as a freelance journalist
and you know, taking on assignments that were given to me,
you know, whether I was really interested or not. You know,
I decided to start a blog at the time where
I could write about the things that I really cared about,
you know, which turns out to be animals. Yeah, of
(01:20):
course exactly. So you know, the more I I wrote,
the more I really got into it. And you know,
I'm very grateful that I was able to build an
audience of people who also really love animals just like
I do. And a couple of years into it, I
decided to you know, make it a nonprofit media organization
(01:41):
at the time and you know, be really an official charity,
you know, mission driven. And since then, the organization has
grown and we do you know, a lot more than
publishing articles now, although that's still a very large part
of what we do because as you know, you know,
raising awareness is really everything. Sure, you know, if you
(02:04):
don't expose animal lease, then it never really stops. So
you know, a big part of our work skill is
daily publishing. We also distribute a lot of petitions so
that people can very easily add their voice to seek
out against animal cruelty. And then we'll pass those signatures
on to policymakers to say, hey, you know, the public
(02:24):
is paying attention, they're not going to tolerate animal abuse,
and you know, they want you to take action. And
now we also do have a grant program so that
we can help animals on the grounds, which I'm very
happy to do. You know, it's great to work on
animal cruelty campaigns, but it's also it warms your heart
(02:46):
to actually see the animals help in real time. So
right sponsor mostly small local organizations with little means. We
help them with food, shelter, veterinary or effort things that
they may need to you know, directly help the animals too.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
That's amazing. I mean, wow, you know, you do so much.
And the fact that you're using the grants to help
all of these small rescues and people who actually need
the help, I mean, that's that's pretty amazing.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
I think you know it is.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
It is because I mean, so there are I feel
like there are just so many in the country, and
you know, and it's difficult because I think, you know,
the whole animal welfare, the whole thing about it. I
feel like it's come so far over the years, but
obviously it's never going to be far enough until until
we have no kill shelters and we get rid of
puppy mills and all that. And I feel like it's
(03:40):
getting closer, but uh, you.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Know, we still have a long way to go.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Yes, well, for those who are listening, they can learn
more about it by going to Ladyfreethinker dot org and
that's where they can learn all about you and and
all of the amazing work that you do. So what
do you think I mean, I know, we just touched
on like puppy mills and no kill and what do
you think with animal rescue right now in twenty twenty
(04:07):
five is biggest or you know, one of the Yeah,
one of the biggest problems.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Well, yeah, that's a tough one because there's so many
and they all matter. You know, by the numbers, there's
more cruelty going on on factory farms for the food
industry than any other you know, so you know, by
the numbers and you know methods used, I would say
that's probably the biggest. Sure, But in terms of you know,
(04:36):
what's happening right in our backyards so to speak, you know,
overpopulation is just a massive, massive problem. You know, I
live in Los Angeles where we have a you know,
really an epidemic of overpopulation of shelters and that you
know obviously results in animals be killed or with not
(04:58):
being helped. So the neoter is so critical, so critical
right now, and then along with that goes, you know,
stopping those puppy mills and those breeders who are you know,
not only you know, very often neglecting and you know,
sometimes abusing those dogs and very often raising them in
(05:21):
really deplorable conditions, but also contributing to that overpopulation so
that they're even more you know, hads to languish and
shelters and end up getting killed.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I think, yeah, I think that.
To me, that's like I guess equally, you know, the
problem the Spain Nooter and people don't do that, and
then the fact that there are puppy mills, so you know,
the deplorable conditions, and you know, there are people because
I'm sure you know, just like I do. You talk
to people and they go, well, what's a puppy mill?
And I'm like, are you kidding? You know, but there
(05:55):
are people and a good amount of people who don't
they're not aware that when they go into a store
and they buy, you know, and stores always lie and say, oh,
you know, we have it comes from a reputable breeder.
That's always my favorite. And I'm like, wait, you know,
like they don't and they don't know that that you
know that puppy or that kitten came from a puppy
(06:16):
mill because they don't know what that is. And I
just find that right like scratching your head over it,
like really but exactly.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
And there's so many unscrupulous breeders. Yeah, you know, we
actually just finished a report on puppy mills in Pennsylvania
and this includes both licensed and unlicensed dog breeding kennels
because a lot of these breeders, you know, even though
they should be licensed under the law, they're not, and
they try to fly under the radar. And then you
(06:47):
know what might happen is they might get a citation,
but then they can just apply to be licensed and
end up still operating like it's it's kind of insane,
you know, even after being cited for not just operating legally.
But you know, sometimes animal coolty and abuse, it's just
like okay, well, you know, maybe they'll be on probation
for a little while, but then they can just go
(07:07):
ahead and keep their animals and continue reading. And then
you know, those dogs end up in test doors or
sometimes they're sold online, you know, the online of headsails
and another that's a big problem.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Yes, you're in my head.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
I was just going to say that, like that to
me is even It's just I don't even know if
it's worse or it's just as bad.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
It's because people believe that, Oh but it's so beautiful.
It's a little puppy.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
On grass, Like, do you realize it's like you're not real?
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Yeah, I'm not.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Feeling it's so easy for them just to stage that shot,
right little puppy that you know that, you know, moments
in the grass might be the only time that puppy
has seen the outdoors in.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Weeks exactly exactly the se uh huh.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
So even if the grass is even real in the shot,
because I think that sometimes it's not even real. It's like,
you know, like when you bring a baby to a
photo shoot at a department store.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
You know, it's like.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Right, yeah, I mean it's I have no doubt that
that happened.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
I know, I know.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
I mean, I just feel like, I mean, I feel
like I don't know, just to try to be positive
that it's a little bit better than it has been
over the years, but I mean you would know better
than me. I just feel like, on the flip of it,
it's not at all because all of these puppy mills
still exist and all these pet stores, you know, some
get shut down. Some states you know, have laws that
(08:23):
you can't sell puppies and kittens from a store. Yeah,
but I feel like, why is it taking so long?
You know, I can feel impatient about it.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Yeah, so do I I agree. I mean it's very
promising that we do have more and more states that
are you know, banning pets sales. And you know, in
Pennsylvania there's actually a proposed bill. You know, Pennsylvania is
a hot spot for them, the puppy mill. Yes, so
there is a bill called Victoria's Law that you know,
(08:55):
if it's passed, could could make a really big difference.
And it's named after a dog called Victoria, who was
a ninety pound German Shepherd who was just crammed into
a crate and she's actually lost the ability to walk
from a genetic disease, but she was still forced to
breed over and over again for ten years. She actually
(09:16):
first one hundred and fifty puppies. Yeah, and those puppies
inherited her disease, which is something that you see a
lot of these years because they're just you know, churning
out these these sick puppies and then unwitting people, you know,
don't realize that they're buying an animal that's going to
need a lot of serious veterinary care. And then what
(09:38):
happens to the animal. Maybe they end up in the shelter,
maybe they dub euthanized, you know, the tragic day. But
you know, hopefully legislators will pass Victoria's Lot and that
you know, will will help. But you know, I agree
that it's we're not close to solving the problem. But
but we've come a long way. And you know, now
(10:00):
usually when I talk to somebody and they mentioned their dog,
in most cases they rescue the dog in most cases, yeah,
the shelter dog. Yes, you know, not always. Then you know,
you still get that, oh well it was a repubable breeder.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Yeah, I always love that.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
And when people say that to me, and I try
not to be you know, like rude about it.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
But why why is it reputable?
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Like have you been going to the same breeder for
years and years or do you know someone who also
had you know, adopted, i mean, bought a dog from
the same breeder and you know, not not that it
makes it better, but it makes it like a tag
better but not that much. But yeah, I know it's
the same thing, but I do. I know, I feel
like I know more people now who rescue an animal
(10:45):
than before.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
But then again, and it's probably the same for you.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
If they knew, if they know who we are and
what we do, they probably are afraid to say that
they bought a pet.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Oh, definitely, definitely, that's true. Yeah, that's the only thing
of them.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Yes, yeah, I know it's terrible.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
I don't mean to be so negative, but yeah, I
know it's terrible.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
But I also and this is another thing.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
And I'm sure you can help me on this what
I find more and tell me if you've noticed the
same thing. I just feel like the way the economy
is and the way you know, people have lost their jobs.
I just keep hearing that shelters are starting to get
overcrowded again, more so right because people have to give up,
(11:31):
which I for me, and I'm sure and for you
and for probably most people who are listening, if they
had to give up their animal, they would not eat
so their animal could eat.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
You know.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
But there are people I get it, you know, who
have like large families or on a fixed income or
whatever the reason, and they have to give up their pets.
And I just feel like it's really increased, like in
the past couple of months.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
I have seen that.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
I don't have the day, but it does seem that way.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
That way.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Yeah, I remember, you know during the pandemic, when everybody
bought their pandemic you know, puppy or kitten, and then
you had that same problem after the pandemic, you have shelters,
and yeah, you know, when times are tough, it's the
animals to really, you know, suffer first. I mean, everybody's suffering.
I don't want to minimize human suffering because right, no,
(12:23):
I know, obviously something that to solved. To you course,
of course, you know the animal is going to be
the one returned to the shelter.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Yeah, yeah, which which isn't fathomable to me and to you.
But I under but I understand what people are in
such dire straits. And I mean I'm also seeing and
I see this on social media a lot also lately
that I see people are getting deported and their pets
are left behind, and yeah, and I see that so much,
(12:52):
and I'm like, you know, because a lot of times
with anything with social media, then I have to vet
it because is that true?
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Is it?
Speaker 3 (12:59):
Ai? Is it?
Speaker 1 (13:00):
You know, it's it's very complicated. It's just like it's
very frustrating these days.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
It's very hard to tell truth from fiction on social media,
even with rescues. Yeah, we work a lot on animal
cruelty on social media. Actually, that's one of our bigger
issues that we're constantly tracking and monitoring, you know, animal
abuse for entertainment. And you know, along with that is
this sort of fake rescue epidemic where you know, the
(13:31):
animals are actually put into these horrible situations on purpose
and then somebody you know, pretends to go in and
save them and you know, oh wow or no other
paypalink wow. Yeah, you definitely have to be careful. I
have a little love topic, but.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
No, no, no, but that's no, that's on topic. That's
I mean, I don't want to say it's fascinating, but
I am not even aware of that. Like that's insane. Yeah,
that's really awful. People are just so awful.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Being diligent is just crucial and it's usually not that
hard to research a rescue organization. Sure, that's true, you know,
and they're telltale signs like if they don't disclose their location,
which is very common, or you know, they don't really
even have an organization, and a lot of these pages
are listed as something like totally different, like a you know,
(14:24):
a media company or a you know, marketing company. Is like,
well that's weird. Yeah, they're not too hard, but usually.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Well, just do your homework.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
No, that's actually very good advice to give to people,
because you know, so often you you, oh, well, I
got this dog. I bought this dog on Craigslist and
it's like, what, you know, so these are That's a
really good tip to give for someone who's listening, because
especially you know, these places that aren't real, and of
course they pull at the at our heartstring and you know,
(15:02):
sometimes it's human nature.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
You can't help it.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
And then you go, oh wait, what did I just
give money to? Or who do you have a staff
that actually monitors all of that?
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Wow, that's pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
For the past how five this year, we've been chatting
that you know, I feel like in twenty twenty and
it's been probably happening since the birth of social media
in some way, but it seems to really kind of
take off around twenty twenty, you know, during the pandemic
for whatever reason, and people sort of figured out that
they could, you know, abuse animals, and you know, there
(15:38):
are people who actually enjoy watching animals suffer. You know,
it's called zoo sadism, which is a different issue than
the fake rescues. But they also found their way to
social media insane. I'm not going to go into the details, right,
but it's just awful. Yeah, it is, Yeah, it is.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
So so walk me through so with your staff, say,
and they're doing some tracking and then they find you know,
like a fake rescue that's just trying to collect money.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
What like, what are the steps? What happens next?
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Yeah? So you know, first and for more foremost you
want to report it. You know, every social media platform
has their own you know system for doing that and
does it always work. No, they're not the best at
moderating animal cruelty content, which is why we're camp fanning
sure to stop it and you know, get stronger accountability
(16:31):
for that. But but you still always want to do
that because in many cases the video will be removed eventually.
You know, usually more than one person has to report it,
and it might take a while, but it's you know,
we do see it happen. You know, if something is
blatantly illegal and we know the location, will you know,
reach out to law enforcement in that area, or if
(16:53):
it's a federal crime, because in the United States, there
are certain types of animal cruelty videos that are illegal
under the Preventing Animal Cruelty and Torture Act, which is
relatively new, it was signed into law in twenty nineteen.
But if a video shows really extreme abuse like dismemberment, killing, burning,
things like that, then that's going to be a federal crime.
(17:15):
And so we actually do work with federal agencies, including
Homeland Security investigations and the FBI. They actually do take
those cases seriously. I'm you know, very happy to say, and.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Which is good, Yeah, it is, It's excellent. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
You know, you think Homeland Security, you think, you know,
many different things, but one thing that they do.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Right, they do that, right, Yes, exactly, they do.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Yeah, they do. And so in you know, one sort
of phenomenon of this very deep dark world of people
who enjoy watching baby bunkys being tortured. You know, global
rings involved, and you know, there have been international things
(18:02):
where people in Indonesia have been arrested for making the videos,
and then people in the US who are purchasing the
videos in the UK, you know, have been prosecuted. So
there's actually been a lot of global cooperation on that also. Good.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
That's great.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Yeah, no, it is good.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
You know.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Unfortunately, the videos still like to make their way to
the social media sometimes because people just want to share
them for some strange reason.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
So, yeah, people are so weird. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Yeah, they're very weird.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
They're just so weird.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
That's why we love animals so much, because people are
just like really like, what's wrong with you?
Speaker 2 (18:38):
You know exactly? Yeah, exactly?
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Did you have no friends growing up? Could that be it?
I mean, you know, it's just I just don't. I know,
it's terrible to say, but I mean, like, I just
I just don't understand. And the older I get, it's
more and more difficult to be honest.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Yeah, I know, I know. I think, you know, animals
feelings are just diminished in people's and they don't understand
that we are animals too, and yes, those animals experience
the same suffering and the same feelings, and I think
that it's hard for some people to wrap their heads around,
(19:13):
you know, maybe because of cultural reasons, or because of
the way they were raised.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
Or all the above.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Probably Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Yeah, No, I think you're right, And I think I
think sometimes, well not usually all the time, if it's
someone who just has just no regard for an animal's
feelings or suffering, well, if you can do that or
feel that way about an animal, then you probably have
no problem doing that to a human, you know, because
that usually goes hand in hand as well.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Absolutely, yeah, And I mean I'm sure you know this,
but you know, the people who are giving horrfic crimes
against humans very often it.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
Started with animal with animals.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Yeah, like the serial killers they started, you know, they
were torturing a cat when they were five, you know, yes,
and that's not just made up, that's facts.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Yeah, yeah, it's really Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
But you and your organization are doing such great work
and cracking down and finding people and finding sites. So
you know, more power to you for doing this, Nina,
because you know, no seriously, because we need more people
like you, you know, the good guys. So yeah, So,
if there was one piece of advice, I mean, and
(20:21):
it might not be one, but if there's like one
piece of advice you would want to share with, you know,
anyone who is thinking about owning a pet or you know,
adopting a pet, or doesn't know anything about animals and
needs what what's like one if there's one thing, and
maybe you said it already that you know they're like us,
that they got feelings and emotions and everything else.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
But is there something else?
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Yeah, I mean that's obviously a very important one to
you know, treat them as though you know, you would
want to be treated and be in tuned to their
feelings because they do communicate with you and usually will
tell you what they want or when they need something
or when they're suffering. You know. Also, just speaking to
what you said earlier about the you know, pets going
(21:06):
back to shelters and abandonment, you know, I think it's
important for people to understand that it is a financial
commitment and you know, beyond just the food and you know,
the kitty litter, if it's a cat, there will be
vet bills. You know, sometimes they can be pricey. You know,
it's a good idea to get pet insurance, you know,
(21:27):
if you're able to, because if something catastrophic happens, you know,
that can mean the difference between U sure, you know,
the animals getting the treatment they need or not. But yeah,
I think you know, understanding that commitment in general, you know,
you're really taking on a life that is going to
need things, not that unlike having a child, and it's
(21:50):
really your responsibility to make sure that that animal is
happy and healthy and loved and you know, has a
good life. So basically you are the one responsible for
that animal's life now for you know, maybe twenty years.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Yeah, no, you're right, that's perfect.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Yeah no, that is something huge to think about, and
I think sometimes people don't so I think that's a
great piece of advice. I really do. So thank you
for that one. So for those who are listening, it's
Nina Jackal and she is the founder of Lady Freethinker
and you can see all of the stuff that they
do and it's a nonprofit. So if the holiday season
(22:30):
is coming, if you'd like to make a donation and
to keep the cause going, I'm sure it would be
welcomed at Ladyfreethinker dot org. It's Lady Freethinker Altogether dot org.
So Nina, thank you, thank you for taking the time out,
thank you for all that you do. More power to you,
you know, keep on fighting the good fight.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
No, thank you, it's been a pleasure to speak with you.
Thank you for having me on and for you know,
using your voice for good well.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
Thanks, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Sharon has never been a raider operator and this want
see a raider lavigator
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