June 26, 2024 • 30 mins
Maria chats with award-winning filmmaker and returning guest Steven Latham about the new season of ShelterMe TV, 9 new episodes that celebrate the bond between us and our pets. Steven also has an upcoming documentary that will air on PBS The Mustangs: America's Wild Horses (Executive Producer Robert Redford with a Bruce Springsteen song too!)
Give a listen and learn! Also checkout ShelterMe's Facebook page.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
It's Maria's MutS and Stuff. Whata great idea on iHeartRadio. Welcome to
Maria's Mutts and Stuff with me.I'm so thrilled because not of course,
he is an award winning filmmaker,he's a producer, he's a director.
But he's a returning guest and Ilove returning guests. It is Stephen Latham.
(00:25):
So, Steven, you know wespoke back in twenty eighteen. Do
you believe that for the first time. It's crazy. I'm so glad we're
back. It's really fun to beto be together again. Absolutely. So
it's very exciting news Shelter Me TV. Because of course I follow you on
social media and I keep in touchwith everything that's going on. But you
(00:45):
have all new episodes that just startedrecently. Let's talk about about that.
Yeah, okay, I'm thrilled toannounce, you know, we are.
Previously we'd been working on these episodesand finally they're available to the public.
So we have a whole season ninenine new episodes to tell these incredible stories
(01:06):
about the human animal bond, remindpeople the amazing animals at the shelters,
and just stories to inspire people andmake them fall in love again. Well,
I saw the first episode about DogMountain up in Vermont, which I
mean I've heard of it for years, from many years ago. One of
my cousins went there and kept tellingme I must go. And anyway,
(01:27):
I watched the episode, the firstepisode, and I'll tell you because I
lost my dog two months ago.I was sobbing. But it was so
therapeutic and it was just it's sucha perfect episode. So let's tell the
listeners a little bit about Dog Mountainfor those who aren't familiar with it.
Well, Dog Mountain is a magicalplace. It's in a town called Saint
(01:49):
Johnsbury and northern Vermont, and Ihighly encourage people to make the trip to
make the pilgrimage because it is abeautiful place. What I really want wanted
to accomplish with that episode was toexplore grief, just like you know,
you lost your pet. I actuallywas on my own grief journey. I
had this great Dane mix named Bluewho was you know, it was really
(02:15):
just my heart and Soul is justa dog that I was connected to and
and he had passed and I youknow, was going through you know,
just as horrible we all know thatwe all have feeling who love our pets,
how terrible it is. And Ihad, you know, been just
doing some research and I came acrossthis place in Vermont that's on one hundred
and fifty acres and they have inthe middle of it, they have a
(02:38):
chapel and people come from all overthe country, all over the world to
go and honor their pet. Sothey go into the chapel and they'll literally
put photos or write poems or handdrawn pictures, anything they'd like to do.
They sort of, you know,just remember their pet, and you're
(02:58):
you walk into the chapel and itjust takes your breath away because there are
just thousands upon thousands of notes andimages and it's all about love and it's
all about you know, what ourpets mean to us. And as someone
in the film says, they said, it's the happiest place in the world
to be sad. Perfect. Yeah, And that's what we wanted to accomplish.
(03:20):
We wanted to acknowledge that the griefis real and that you can have
sadness and gratitude at the same time. But the cool thing about Dog Mountain
is then you walk outside the chapeland dogs are ripping around and then you
start laughing and you realize, likethese animals, we go through tough times,
but man, is it worth itbecause these animals are a blessing.
(03:42):
It's true and I'm pretty sure someoneactually even said that it's you know,
only if other dog owners, othercat owners, other pet owners understand that
bond and how devastating it is whenwe lose them. And at Dog Mountain,
because I'm Yvonne who was there withdog Vinci, who's also been on
Maria's mutts and stuff, and youknow, she was hugging someone who was
(04:08):
a stranger who she had just met, who was also there because she had
lost her pet. So it's definitelyshows that universal bond. And you know,
you you show showed that in thefilm. It just showed all of
us that we all share that aspet owners, you know, and that's
that's the community that we all weall go through and and you you're when
(04:29):
you're there and you're seeing people andtalking to them. I mean, people
come up and they they revisit thechapel and you know, they're the walls
are so thick with pictures and photos. Is that you know they it's it's
like three feet thick of just everybodygoing in there on their pets. So
when you're there, you could spendhours upon hours reading these notes, but
you're around other people that have gonethrough the same thing, right, And
(04:50):
Yvonne, who's such a lovely person, so as you know, having her
on, you know, she hadthis incredible dog on Long Island named dog
Vinci, who could paint, andit was such a special bond that they
have, and Dog Vinchi passed awayunexpectedly same time when I lost my dog.
So the idea was, I saidyVonn, you, you know,
(05:11):
you need to come and take thisjourney with me and we'll sort of tell
the story through your eyes. Andshe had just adopted another dog, and
again, the beauty of it wasnot to replace the dog she lost,
but if anything, it was italmost like gives people permission to like,
this is the best way to honoryour pet, considering especially the crisis that
we're in right now with shelters beingso overcrowded. Sure that she was able
(05:34):
to kind of say it's okay toand another dog needs me now. And
she certainly needed another dog because youknow that's just something really important for her,
and we told part of the storyof Dog Mountain with this individual who
was going through that grief and howit helped her by going there and to
honor Dog Vinci. Absolutely, andit's just it's so amazing that Dog Mountain
(05:58):
with the owners who both passed away, but that the community is still running
it, like I love that itis. You know, it's the when
when the owners passed away, itwas such a loss and the rustees had
to come together and figure out,you know, this this is the place.
This is a place worth saving.You know, the this is this
was the vision of the owners andthey were able to, you know,
(06:20):
make it sustainable and you can gothere and they have concerts and you can
just go if you want to justgo hang out and have your dogs,
you know, jump into ponds orwalk the trails, or people get married
there. It's it's truly a placeof joy. And that's what we wanted
to do. We didn't want tohave this be an episode of grief that
was crippling. We wanted it tobe where we acknowledged that pain that there's
(06:44):
a lot of people going through that, but you know that we'll we'll get
through this together, absolutely, andyou did because also going through it,
I I totally felt that, like, okay, I can the crying was
good, it was therapeutic, andit was just it was perfect. Was
that your first time at Dog Mountain? First time where I ended up putting
a picture of my own dog onthe wall. So it was it was
(07:09):
a challenging film to make because Iwas literally you were living. Yeah,
I was living it, and soit was my first time there. So
while I was actually experiencing it andgoing through all the emotions hero making a
movie at the same time. Soso it was also therapeutic for you as
well. Yeah, it's tremendous.I honestly can't say enough good things about
(07:30):
about this place, and I reallyyou know, what we try to do
with our films is to have itbe the next best thing to being there.
And kind of the way you explainedit where I've shared the film with
people who have lost pets and theyfound it very helpful because it just it
either you know, helped them getthrough a really difficult moment or they watched
it with one of their pets andthat might be getting a little older and
(07:50):
maybe gave them a little tighter hug. Sure. Sure, And I also
think there's something to be said ofjust knowing you're not alone. I think
that's really important to pet owners becauseespecially if you're around people who don't have
another pet, and they're always theperson or the people who are like,
oh well, just get another one, as if it was a couch you
(08:11):
know that got torn. But beingaround other pet owners, it's just it's
a it's almost like a grief groupin a sense. We're all like this
big group and we all get it. So, uh, that episode really
conveyed that. So thank you fordoing that. Yeah, and I appreciate
you saying that, you know,I mean it really, it really is
like that. And you know,because grief is so personal for everybody,
(08:33):
there's not there's not like this endpoint, and a lot of people at some
point, you know, don't wantto just you know, keep talking to
their friends or their family and andand for a lot of people that grief
is is personal and private. Sowhen you go to this place, it
is just it's understood and it's welcomed, and it's just you know, you
can just be yourself and if youwant to have a good cry or just
(08:54):
want to sit and just to thinkabout your animal or bring another pet or
meet other people. It's it issuch a healthy place to deal with loss,
right. It just it shows thatit's okay. Yep, it's okay.
So tell me without giving everything awaybecause they haven't aired yet, can
we talk about some of the otherepisodes, because this series has nine episodes,
(09:15):
correct, correct, Yeah, you'regoing to get a different story,
and we've got everything from a veterinarianin Los Angeles that goes to skid row
and takes care of the pets ofhomeless people to a story that we filmed
in the East Village where a comedytroupe called Must Love Dogs in Comedy does
(09:39):
dog friendly shows at a at acoffee shop called Boris and Horton and people
literally can bring their dogs to theshow and all the money raise goes to
the shelters and rescues in New YorkCity. So it's a really fun episode.
We've got a really cool episode thatKristin Chenowith and it's about She wrote
(10:00):
a book called What Will I Dowith My Love Today? And it's all
about kindness. So we organized duringNational Volunteer Week across the shelter. We
had kids and families go into sheltersto read to the animals, and it's
a really cool show to kind ofsay there's lots of things you can do
to support your local shelter. Ifyou're not ready to adopt or foster,
(10:20):
there's still ways you can do andthe animals really need us, and there's
things that you could do by justgoing there and spending time with the animals
and helping the network them online.So that's a really cool episode. We
have another one where it's a groomingacademy where underserved people, people that have
challenging backgrounds, whether it be substanceabuse or homelessness or formally incarcerated, that
(10:46):
they're given a free scholarship to goto a grooming academy that's worth seven thousand
dollars each and they groom shelter petsto help them get adopted. But if
they graduate, their guaranteed a jobto be a professional groomer. So really
cool way of second chances for pets. And then we focus on a story
on homeless cats of community cats thatare living on the streets, and we
(11:09):
feature an organization called Fixed Nation inLos Angeles that literally spaes and neuters cats
to try to help with the populationproblem. And it's a really incredible group.
And we did a one day filmingwhere the veterinarians did this high volume
space hooter and they fixed twenty twocats in one day. Wow, that's
(11:33):
amazing an incredible talent from the veterinarians, but also really impact try to overpopulation
on the streets. Then we havethis really cool stories that take place in
Green Bay, Wisconsin where a coploves animals so much that he stops by
the shelter in the morning and thenhe takes dogs on ride alongs to help
them get adopted. That he's gota pop star named Max who while he's
(11:56):
on tour, he performs free concertsat shelters and it just it's a real
it's a real joy. And thatepisode is hosted by Paula Abdul. And
we also have a story where wedid a senior dog adoption event and we
show the largest event where photographers fromall over the country came to a shelter
and they they took photos of everysingle pet that was available for adoption to
(12:18):
kind of show remind people that theseanimals are literally just waiting at their she
your local shelter for people to openup their hearts and open up their homes.
And now if you ever, ifyour listener has ever thought about adopting,
I begged them to go to theirlocal shelter because now's the time.
Yeah, now's the time. Soall of these episodes are so varied,
(12:39):
and I'm sure they're all wonderful intheir own way, and there's probably I
hate asking you this because they're probablythey're all like your children. Did you
do you have a favorite of theof the New Nine? Well, so
you know each one is what Ireally love about this series is that they
they're so different. There's this isn'tlike template that they really you know,
(13:01):
we really go and tell these amazingstories. I'll tell you the two that
really that really spoke to me wasDog Mountain for sure, just because that
was so deeply personal and I feellike a lot of that kind of came
through that I was, you know, dealing with're dealing with such a sensitive
issue, and the producer and directorwas feeling the same way as the viewers
of right right, Yeah, ofcourse. But the one that we did
(13:24):
with the the is called Shelter methe street vet. This This got doctor
is doctor Kwan Stewart. He hadjust won the twenty twenty three CNN Hero
of the Year Award, and thework that he's doing with homelessness is really
kind of emphasized the type of storytellingthat I like to do, which is
(13:45):
trying to tackle these larger social issuesthrough companionables. So you know, instead
of saying watching a film about homelessnessor just talking about the numbers like there's
tens of thousands of homeless people,this was so up close and personal on
skid Row where the pet was theridge, and it allowed for just having
conversations, you know, with Bobwho's in the film, and just to
(14:05):
hear their background, how they youknow, they got to be homeless and
what life is like on the streets. And we really humanize the story.
But it always reminds me it's theanimal that's the great connector sure, I
think animals are miracles now they are, absolutely, I agree, and they
and they bring us together and theyalso bring out the best in us,
(14:26):
and they bring out compassion and kindnessand love and empathy, and that episode
sort of embodies on all the thingsthat I that I feel really strongly about
without it trying to be preachy.We just kind of show people being good
to each other, right, right, and that's contagious to others as well.
I think when people see that contagious, I firmly believe that. Yeah,
no, I do, I reallydo. So let my listeners know
(14:50):
how they can watch and see theseepisodes of shelter Me TV the new ones.
So shelter Me is airing on PBSall over the country, and I'm
really grateful to pet Co Love becausethey make this. They make this possible.
In the Tri State area, weare airing on w l i W
(15:11):
channel twenty one and beginning on Julysecond, so every Tuesday at five pm
in July and August you'll be ableto see all these episodes, and then
on NJPB PBS NJPBS it begins airingon Sunday, June thirtieth at seven am,
(15:31):
so it'll be every Sunday at sevenam, and then across the country.
It's a check your local listings whereyou can go to our Facebook page,
which is on facebook dot com slashshelter MeTV, so all of our
social media is shelter MeTV and we'lllist the air dates. But the best
news of all is all of theseepisodes we're talking about will be streaming for
free on PBS dot org in thefall. So the previous twelve episodes that
(15:54):
we did in the series, plusthese nine new ones that we were talking
about, so twenty one will beon PBS dot org in the fall.
That it's totally free to stream onany device. That's awesome. And as
we get to a more specific date, you'll let me know and I'll post
that and let my listener listeners knowas well when the fall date comes.
(16:15):
So if that's not all that's beenkeeping you very very busy, Stephen,
because you are a busy guy,and I don't know you to ever be
doing nothing like you probably never takevacation. You also have the Mustangs,
America's wild horses, well, soanimals. I'm very lucky to combine my
(16:37):
two favorite things, which are animalsand filmmaking. So I got introduced to
the wild world of Mustangs by afriend who had suggested that there was a
program where veterans organizations were pairing upwild horses with veterans with PTSD, which
I'm really supportive of. Our veteransand have done shelter me stories of out
(17:00):
and and I found that intriguing.But when I started doing my research,
I realized that there was a muchbigger story. And I set out to
tell the definitive story about wild horsesin America. And in ninety minutes,
we tell you about the history ofhow you know the wild horse that came
to be in modern times, totheir backstory, to what's the current situation,
(17:22):
to who are some of the groupsthat are doing something about it.
And I was incredibly fortunate to haveRobert Redford as my executive producer, as
well as Patty Skiolfa, Springsteen andJessica Springs. Springsteen and and Bruce gave
me a song, So I lovethat. Oh my goodness, do you
(17:44):
realize soundtrack? You know? Becausethis film, I really think of this
film as sort of it's sort ofmy love letter to America. Yeah,
Like I feel like it's sort ofwe stamp your passport to go to all
these places in America that a lotof people just don't go to and remind
people that there's a lot of somuch beauty and so much stuff to be
proud of our country. But alsoemmylu Harris gave me a song. Willie
(18:08):
Nelson and Diane Warren wrote an originalsong. Oh my goodness, that's like
phenomenal. But Bruce gave me asong. I'm sorry, I'm like stuck
on that. And you know,it was it was amazing. You know,
he had come out with a western, a Western album, and I
was waiting for it, and I'mlike, because I knew there was a
track on it called Chasin wild Horses, and I'm like, and and you
(18:29):
know, for a song to workin a film, you know, it
has to lyrically and musically, ithas to work. It I honestly couldn't
believe how perfect it was. Andand we just have this scene in the
movie where you know, we're inWyoming, it's Magic Hour, and a
band of wild horses just literally,you know, runs by us with the
cloud kicking up in the sun andit's like we had a drone in the
(18:51):
sky and it was. It wasone of these one of those moments that
you'll never forget when you're making amovie, I'm sure. And his song
is set to that, and it'sit's pretty uh, it's pretty remarkable.
Well it is, and it's prettyremarkable that you have all of those that
cast of characters, all very wellknown names, to help you and contribute
to your film. I mean,that's phenomenal. So, you know,
(19:11):
the one thing I'm so I'm mostproud of is that they loved the way
that we approached the storytelling, andthat was to me the biggest thing because
it's a very complicated story and youknow, and you know, I'm sure
a lot of your listeners might noteven know that there's still wild horses exist
because it's such an sight out ofmind issue. And in ten Western states,
(19:33):
on our public lands, on landthat's managed by the Bureau of Land
Management, there are eighty thousand wildhorses out there and in captivity when the
Bureau of Land Management rounds them up, which is something that you know,
we address in the film. There'sover sixty thousand that are in government corrals
that are just sort of like feedlots. So we have really large numbers of
(19:56):
wild horses. And what we addressin the film is not only the magistry
and just how beautiful and you know, what they represent and how they came
to be, but there really isa management issue because there's federal law dictating
a lot of this. So wesort of cover all this grounds to make
sure that people understand the politics,the environmental impact, and all the elements
around wildhorses, because a lot oftimes, you know, the activists tend
(20:22):
to just try to simplify the issueand says, there's so much land out
there and let them be free.It's a nice sentiment, but there's federal
law that dictates that's not possible.Welcome people to try to change federal law,
but you show that, you know, just like with any big issue,
especially in animal welfare, you can'tjust wish things to be better.
If you want to do something,you actually have to roll up your sleeves
(20:42):
and do something about it. Dosomething. It's not a spectator sport,
you know, this is a participatorysport that if you want to actually,
you know, do good for theanimals, you actually have to do something
about it. Sure, no,that makes sense, And with your movie,
it's like knowledge is power because justlike you said, I'm sure many
people aren't aware of the wild horses, that they're even out there, or
(21:03):
how many the number like eighty thousand, that's more than I would ever think.
You know, I realized that Ilearned that from your trailer, like
wow, and I think that's justsomething that people don't know. For someone
who's listening, how what can theydo to help? Besides after they watch
your movie? When that because we'regoing to talk about when they can watch
(21:25):
it? But how can because it'sit's a topic that people are probably just
learning about now hearing about it,or aren't as familiar as say, as
like a shelter animal. What canyou know the average Joe or Jane do.
So we just had our premiere inLos Angeles and we had a panel
(21:45):
discussion afterwards, and just like me, I didn't know a lot about this
issue to begin with, which wasrealized like, hey, I need to
tell the story and I need totell it responsibly and properly. And when
we did our premiere, you know, over three hundred people were attended and
in the panel discussion, nobody leftthe theater because they wanted to know more.
Sure, And that's what the filmdoes is create this foundation of like,
(22:07):
Okay, this is the building blocksto kind of expose you to what
the story is and what sort ofthe rules of the game are so people
can learn more. But there's there'sa few things that people can do if
if they're really interested in the wildhorse issue. First of all, it's
it's seeking out credible sources of informationthat are following things politically. That's happening
in DC, and that's happening,you know, with the government agencies that
(22:29):
oversee the wild horses. So thereare groups like Return to Freedom, which
that we we feature in the film, and they do they have a sanctuary,
two sanctuaries in California, so theyactually bring in wildhorses onto their sanctuary
and they educate children and people cango there. It's not available to the
public where you can literally that's andmost people will see wild horses more in
a sanctuary environment than they will inthe wild because a lot of these places
(22:52):
in Colorado, Wyoming they've had arereally difficult to get to. But there's
other places like the ASPCA and theHumane Society of the United States. They
are working diligently on these issues andwork with a lot of the different stakeholders.
Because one of the things that's againthat makes things complicated and things that
I'm not particularly you know, enjoyingmyself, is that on the public lands,
(23:15):
the wild horse I mean, Ihave so much respect for the mustang,
I mean in busting is a magnificentanimals, right. But the public
lands, which are our lands,were really never taught about this stuff in
school. But they're are land.They're mixed use, meaning on that land
you also have recreation, you havehunting, you have other animals, you
(23:36):
have other endangered species. You haveyour ranchers to have grazing rights for cattle,
for livestock, cattle and sheep.You have mineral rights, so you
have companies that are doing oil andgas drilling. All these things happen on
our public land. So that's whyI was saying, when you educate yourself
for all these groups to understand it, you can't just say, oh,
(23:59):
there's millions and millions of akers,just let them be free, because it's
really complicated, complicating. They're inthe middle of this nexus of things that
are less than desirable. Even though, like I said, I have deep
respect and appreciation for the wildhorse,and they deserve they deserve better, they
deserve better management, and we reallyneed to be doing things right now in
(24:21):
order to preserve them for future generationsbecause things that are happening in Washington,
DC are going dictating things for thenext ten to twenty years. And what
we know for sure is that forthe years to come, the plan is
to get to round up by helicopter, which everybody hates about twenty thousand wild
horses a year every year, andso it now is the time for people's
(24:45):
voices to be heard. So thelast thing I would say about what people
can do is they're elected officials,they're congress people, their senators in DC
really important just to hear even ifyou were to phone, calls, emails,
letters to say I care about thewild horse issue, what are you
doing about it? Can you giveme any updates? Because every call,
(25:06):
every email is logged, and electedofficials, when they hear from their constituents
and they know what the issues arethey aware of, they keep track.
They keep itally all those messages,and with wild horses because most people don't
know about them because it is soout of sight, out of mind.
It's usually an issue that is muchlower on their priorities. And that shows
(25:27):
what happens legislatively when trying to protectthe wild horse. Right, okay,
so well, the first step forthe listeners, our listeners will be to
watch your documentary. So when willand where will they be able to see
the Mustangs America's wild Horses. Sowe have the We're just starting to get
(25:47):
our air dates, which is very, very exciting. So it's going to
be on PBS for broadcasts on televisionin the New York area. We just
got those in the last couple ofdays. So we're going to be showing
on Channel any W ANY channel thirteenon Sunday, July twenty first at six
thirty pm, and then on WLIWchannel twenty one. We're going to be
(26:10):
in primetime on Thursday, August twentysecond at eight pm. Nice and then
PBS has a World Channel and it'sjust you have to have to look for
it, but it's actually a standalonechannel and we are airing across the country
at one unified time on Monday,August twenty sixth at eight pm Eastern Time.
(26:33):
The World Channel Monday August twenty sixthat eight pm, but we'll be
airing all over the country. Oursocial media handle is the Mustangs Film,
so plural the Mustangs Film, andwe'll also be streaming for free on PBS
dot org in the fall. WowI love this, So that will be
step one for the listeners who aren'taware of anything with the Mustangs. But
(26:55):
this is your this is your firstassignment is to watch the film. So
Steven, I you know, I'mso fascinated by everything that you do.
I'm so I admire you so much. I don't even want to ask you
what's next for you because I feellike everything is like exploding and blowing up
right now. I'm a good havesomething to share if you'd like to hear
(27:15):
it, of course, of courseI do. Tell me I'm finishing soon
principal photography on a new episode ofShelter me that that's going to be relevant
to every single one of us,all of your listeners, you meet,
all of us. So it's anincredible story about the latest cancer treatments for
(27:38):
dogs. Wow. Literally, we'refollowing several clinical trials that are being done
for cancer treatments for dogs. Butbut here's the kicker is these treatments that
we're following which are having dramatic impacton like with immunotherapy on everything from osteosarcoma
to mouth tumors to all kinds oftumors and dogs that get and you know,
(28:00):
all of us dog owners have experienceddogs getting cancer. So the treatments
are exciting, are coming are goingto be available to us regular people soon.
But these treatments what they're learning fromthe dogs, as the dogs are
literally healing or extending their life,are now being applied to human clinical trials.
(28:22):
But when I see animals being miraclesthat you know, literally the clinical
trials that are being done with dogshave already moved into human clinical trials,
and it's only because of what welearned with the dogs, and the entire
cycle is being expedited. So thesedogs are not being experimented on, they're
getting really the most advanced clinical trialtreatments, and then the ones that are
(28:47):
showing to be really successful are movingquickly into human clinical trials. And in
this episode, we're not only goingto be showing dogs that had osteosarcoma that
have less than a year life expectancythat are now seven years later after treatment
are living their best life, butalso humans who have had osteo sarcoma,
which also have a very grim outcome, people that are alive today and living
(29:15):
their life cancer free because of thesetreatments. So we're in the middle of
an incredibly exciting episode that will beactually airing on PBS in January of twenty
twenty five. Wow. Okay,so we are going to talk again before
that airs. How's that need?Yes? Indeed? All right? Well,
Stephen Latham, thank you so muchfor your time, for everything that
(29:37):
you do. The world is abetter place because of you. Trust me
on that one. And I reallytruly mean that, and I thank you
and keep doing what you're doing becauseyou're teaching us, you're helping us.
I mean this whole thing with dogsand cancer. I mean honestly, my
dog lived eleven weeks because he wasdiagnosed with osteosarcoma. So that's right,
(30:00):
passed away from osteosarcoma. And andthese these treatments that are happening right now,
are are are changing the game.Wow, Maria, I just want
to thank you for being a heroto the animals as well, and uh
and your listeners for caring. It'sit's a it's a big deal, and
we we really need more people tokind of we we share the planet with
the animals and we need to continueevery day to see, uh do a
(30:22):
little bit more kindness for the animals. You're absolutely right, Well, thank
you and thank you It was adelight as always, Maria, I really
appreciate it.
It's Maria's MutS and Stuff. Whata great idea on iHeartRadio. Welcome to
Maria's Mutts and Stuff with me.I'm so thrilled because not of course,
he is an award winning filmmaker,he's a producer, he's a director.
But he's a returning guest and Ilove returning guests. It is Stephen Latham.
(00:25):
So, Steven, you know wespoke back in twenty eighteen. Do
you believe that for the first time. It's crazy. I'm so glad we're
back. It's really fun to beto be together again. Absolutely. So
it's very exciting news Shelter Me TV. Because of course I follow you on
social media and I keep in touchwith everything that's going on. But you
(00:45):
have all new episodes that just startedrecently. Let's talk about about that.
Yeah, okay, I'm thrilled toannounce, you know, we are.
Previously we'd been working on these episodesand finally they're available to the public.
So we have a whole season ninenine new episodes to tell these incredible stories
(01:06):
about the human animal bond, remindpeople the amazing animals at the shelters,
and just stories to inspire people andmake them fall in love again. Well,
I saw the first episode about DogMountain up in Vermont, which I
mean I've heard of it for years, from many years ago. One of
my cousins went there and kept tellingme I must go. And anyway,
(01:27):
I watched the episode, the firstepisode, and I'll tell you because I
lost my dog two months ago.I was sobbing. But it was so
therapeutic and it was just it's sucha perfect episode. So let's tell the
listeners a little bit about Dog Mountainfor those who aren't familiar with it.
Well, Dog Mountain is a magicalplace. It's in a town called Saint
(01:49):
Johnsbury and northern Vermont, and Ihighly encourage people to make the trip to
make the pilgrimage because it is abeautiful place. What I really want wanted
to accomplish with that episode was toexplore grief, just like you know,
you lost your pet. I actuallywas on my own grief journey. I
had this great Dane mix named Bluewho was you know, it was really
(02:15):
just my heart and Soul is justa dog that I was connected to and
and he had passed and I youknow, was going through you know,
just as horrible we all know thatwe all have feeling who love our pets,
how terrible it is. And Ihad, you know, been just
doing some research and I came acrossthis place in Vermont that's on one hundred
and fifty acres and they have inthe middle of it, they have a
(02:38):
chapel and people come from all overthe country, all over the world to
go and honor their pet. Sothey go into the chapel and they'll literally
put photos or write poems or handdrawn pictures, anything they'd like to do.
They sort of, you know,just remember their pet, and you're
(02:58):
you walk into the chapel and itjust takes your breath away because there are
just thousands upon thousands of notes andimages and it's all about love and it's
all about you know, what ourpets mean to us. And as someone
in the film says, they said, it's the happiest place in the world
to be sad. Perfect. Yeah, And that's what we wanted to accomplish.
(03:20):
We wanted to acknowledge that the griefis real and that you can have
sadness and gratitude at the same time. But the cool thing about Dog Mountain
is then you walk outside the chapeland dogs are ripping around and then you
start laughing and you realize, likethese animals, we go through tough times,
but man, is it worth itbecause these animals are a blessing.
(03:42):
It's true and I'm pretty sure someoneactually even said that it's you know,
only if other dog owners, othercat owners, other pet owners understand that
bond and how devastating it is whenwe lose them. And at Dog Mountain,
because I'm Yvonne who was there withdog Vinci, who's also been on
Maria's mutts and stuff, and youknow, she was hugging someone who was
(04:08):
a stranger who she had just met, who was also there because she had
lost her pet. So it's definitelyshows that universal bond. And you know,
you you show showed that in thefilm. It just showed all of
us that we all share that aspet owners, you know, and that's
that's the community that we all weall go through and and you you're when
(04:29):
you're there and you're seeing people andtalking to them. I mean, people
come up and they they revisit thechapel and you know, they're the walls
are so thick with pictures and photos. Is that you know they it's it's
like three feet thick of just everybodygoing in there on their pets. So
when you're there, you could spendhours upon hours reading these notes, but
you're around other people that have gonethrough the same thing, right, And
(04:50):
Yvonne, who's such a lovely person, so as you know, having her
on, you know, she hadthis incredible dog on Long Island named dog
Vinci, who could paint, andit was such a special bond that they
have, and Dog Vinchi passed awayunexpectedly same time when I lost my dog.
So the idea was, I saidyVonn, you, you know,
(05:11):
you need to come and take thisjourney with me and we'll sort of tell
the story through your eyes. Andshe had just adopted another dog, and
again, the beauty of it wasnot to replace the dog she lost,
but if anything, it was italmost like gives people permission to like,
this is the best way to honoryour pet, considering especially the crisis that
we're in right now with shelters beingso overcrowded. Sure that she was able
(05:34):
to kind of say it's okay toand another dog needs me now. And
she certainly needed another dog because youknow that's just something really important for her,
and we told part of the storyof Dog Mountain with this individual who
was going through that grief and howit helped her by going there and to
honor Dog Vinci. Absolutely, andit's just it's so amazing that Dog Mountain
(05:58):
with the owners who both passed away, but that the community is still running
it, like I love that itis. You know, it's the when
when the owners passed away, itwas such a loss and the rustees had
to come together and figure out,you know, this this is the place.
This is a place worth saving.You know, the this is this
was the vision of the owners andthey were able to, you know,
(06:20):
make it sustainable and you can gothere and they have concerts and you can
just go if you want to justgo hang out and have your dogs,
you know, jump into ponds orwalk the trails, or people get married
there. It's it's truly a placeof joy. And that's what we wanted
to do. We didn't want tohave this be an episode of grief that
was crippling. We wanted it tobe where we acknowledged that pain that there's
(06:44):
a lot of people going through that, but you know that we'll we'll get
through this together, absolutely, andyou did because also going through it,
I I totally felt that, like, okay, I can the crying was
good, it was therapeutic, andit was just it was perfect. Was
that your first time at Dog Mountain? First time where I ended up putting
a picture of my own dog onthe wall. So it was it was
(07:09):
a challenging film to make because Iwas literally you were living. Yeah,
I was living it, and soit was my first time there. So
while I was actually experiencing it andgoing through all the emotions hero making a
movie at the same time. Soso it was also therapeutic for you as
well. Yeah, it's tremendous.I honestly can't say enough good things about
(07:30):
about this place, and I reallyyou know, what we try to do
with our films is to have itbe the next best thing to being there.
And kind of the way you explainedit where I've shared the film with
people who have lost pets and theyfound it very helpful because it just it
either you know, helped them getthrough a really difficult moment or they watched
it with one of their pets andthat might be getting a little older and
(07:50):
maybe gave them a little tighter hug. Sure. Sure, And I also
think there's something to be said ofjust knowing you're not alone. I think
that's really important to pet owners becauseespecially if you're around people who don't have
another pet, and they're always theperson or the people who are like,
oh well, just get another one, as if it was a couch you
(08:11):
know that got torn. But beingaround other pet owners, it's just it's
a it's almost like a grief groupin a sense. We're all like this
big group and we all get it. So, uh, that episode really
conveyed that. So thank you fordoing that. Yeah, and I appreciate
you saying that, you know,I mean it really, it really is
like that. And you know,because grief is so personal for everybody,
(08:33):
there's not there's not like this endpoint, and a lot of people at some
point, you know, don't wantto just you know, keep talking to
their friends or their family and andand for a lot of people that grief
is is personal and private. Sowhen you go to this place, it
is just it's understood and it's welcomed, and it's just you know, you
can just be yourself and if youwant to have a good cry or just
(08:54):
want to sit and just to thinkabout your animal or bring another pet or
meet other people. It's it issuch a healthy place to deal with loss,
right. It just it shows thatit's okay. Yep, it's okay.
So tell me without giving everything awaybecause they haven't aired yet, can
we talk about some of the otherepisodes, because this series has nine episodes,
(09:15):
correct, correct, Yeah, you'regoing to get a different story,
and we've got everything from a veterinarianin Los Angeles that goes to skid row
and takes care of the pets ofhomeless people to a story that we filmed
in the East Village where a comedytroupe called Must Love Dogs in Comedy does
(09:39):
dog friendly shows at a at acoffee shop called Boris and Horton and people
literally can bring their dogs to theshow and all the money raise goes to
the shelters and rescues in New YorkCity. So it's a really fun episode.
We've got a really cool episode thatKristin Chenowith and it's about She wrote
(10:00):
a book called What Will I Dowith My Love Today? And it's all
about kindness. So we organized duringNational Volunteer Week across the shelter. We
had kids and families go into sheltersto read to the animals, and it's
a really cool show to kind ofsay there's lots of things you can do
to support your local shelter. Ifyou're not ready to adopt or foster,
(10:20):
there's still ways you can do andthe animals really need us, and there's
things that you could do by justgoing there and spending time with the animals
and helping the network them online.So that's a really cool episode. We
have another one where it's a groomingacademy where underserved people, people that have
challenging backgrounds, whether it be substanceabuse or homelessness or formally incarcerated, that
(10:46):
they're given a free scholarship to goto a grooming academy that's worth seven thousand
dollars each and they groom shelter petsto help them get adopted. But if
they graduate, their guaranteed a jobto be a professional groomer. So really
cool way of second chances for pets. And then we focus on a story
on homeless cats of community cats thatare living on the streets, and we
(11:09):
feature an organization called Fixed Nation inLos Angeles that literally spaes and neuters cats
to try to help with the populationproblem. And it's a really incredible group.
And we did a one day filmingwhere the veterinarians did this high volume
space hooter and they fixed twenty twocats in one day. Wow, that's
(11:33):
amazing an incredible talent from the veterinarians, but also really impact try to overpopulation
on the streets. Then we havethis really cool stories that take place in
Green Bay, Wisconsin where a coploves animals so much that he stops by
the shelter in the morning and thenhe takes dogs on ride alongs to help
them get adopted. That he's gota pop star named Max who while he's
(11:56):
on tour, he performs free concertsat shelters and it just it's a real
it's a real joy. And thatepisode is hosted by Paula Abdul. And
we also have a story where wedid a senior dog adoption event and we
show the largest event where photographers fromall over the country came to a shelter
and they they took photos of everysingle pet that was available for adoption to
(12:18):
kind of show remind people that theseanimals are literally just waiting at their she
your local shelter for people to openup their hearts and open up their homes.
And now if you ever, ifyour listener has ever thought about adopting,
I begged them to go to theirlocal shelter because now's the time.
Yeah, now's the time. Soall of these episodes are so varied,
(12:39):
and I'm sure they're all wonderful intheir own way, and there's probably I
hate asking you this because they're probablythey're all like your children. Did you
do you have a favorite of theof the New Nine? Well, so
you know each one is what Ireally love about this series is that they
they're so different. There's this isn'tlike template that they really you know,
(13:01):
we really go and tell these amazingstories. I'll tell you the two that
really that really spoke to me wasDog Mountain for sure, just because that
was so deeply personal and I feellike a lot of that kind of came
through that I was, you know, dealing with're dealing with such a sensitive
issue, and the producer and directorwas feeling the same way as the viewers
of right right, Yeah, ofcourse. But the one that we did
(13:24):
with the the is called Shelter methe street vet. This This got doctor
is doctor Kwan Stewart. He hadjust won the twenty twenty three CNN Hero
of the Year Award, and thework that he's doing with homelessness is really
kind of emphasized the type of storytellingthat I like to do, which is
(13:45):
trying to tackle these larger social issuesthrough companionables. So you know, instead
of saying watching a film about homelessnessor just talking about the numbers like there's
tens of thousands of homeless people,this was so up close and personal on
skid Row where the pet was theridge, and it allowed for just having
conversations, you know, with Bobwho's in the film, and just to
(14:05):
hear their background, how they youknow, they got to be homeless and
what life is like on the streets. And we really humanize the story.
But it always reminds me it's theanimal that's the great connector sure, I
think animals are miracles now they are, absolutely, I agree, and they
and they bring us together and theyalso bring out the best in us,
(14:26):
and they bring out compassion and kindnessand love and empathy, and that episode
sort of embodies on all the thingsthat I that I feel really strongly about
without it trying to be preachy.We just kind of show people being good
to each other, right, right, and that's contagious to others as well.
I think when people see that contagious, I firmly believe that. Yeah,
no, I do, I reallydo. So let my listeners know
(14:50):
how they can watch and see theseepisodes of shelter Me TV the new ones.
So shelter Me is airing on PBSall over the country, and I'm
really grateful to pet Co Love becausethey make this. They make this possible.
In the Tri State area, weare airing on w l i W
(15:11):
channel twenty one and beginning on Julysecond, so every Tuesday at five pm
in July and August you'll be ableto see all these episodes, and then
on NJPB PBS NJPBS it begins airingon Sunday, June thirtieth at seven am,
(15:31):
so it'll be every Sunday at sevenam, and then across the country.
It's a check your local listings whereyou can go to our Facebook page,
which is on facebook dot com slashshelter MeTV, so all of our
social media is shelter MeTV and we'lllist the air dates. But the best
news of all is all of theseepisodes we're talking about will be streaming for
free on PBS dot org in thefall. So the previous twelve episodes that
(15:54):
we did in the series, plusthese nine new ones that we were talking
about, so twenty one will beon PBS dot org in the fall.
That it's totally free to stream onany device. That's awesome. And as
we get to a more specific date, you'll let me know and I'll post
that and let my listener listeners knowas well when the fall date comes.
(16:15):
So if that's not all that's beenkeeping you very very busy, Stephen,
because you are a busy guy,and I don't know you to ever be
doing nothing like you probably never takevacation. You also have the Mustangs,
America's wild horses, well, soanimals. I'm very lucky to combine my
(16:37):
two favorite things, which are animalsand filmmaking. So I got introduced to
the wild world of Mustangs by afriend who had suggested that there was a
program where veterans organizations were pairing upwild horses with veterans with PTSD, which
I'm really supportive of. Our veteransand have done shelter me stories of out
(17:00):
and and I found that intriguing.But when I started doing my research,
I realized that there was a muchbigger story. And I set out to
tell the definitive story about wild horsesin America. And in ninety minutes,
we tell you about the history ofhow you know the wild horse that came
to be in modern times, totheir backstory, to what's the current situation,
(17:22):
to who are some of the groupsthat are doing something about it.
And I was incredibly fortunate to haveRobert Redford as my executive producer, as
well as Patty Skiolfa, Springsteen andJessica Springs. Springsteen and and Bruce gave
me a song, So I lovethat. Oh my goodness, do you
(17:44):
realize soundtrack? You know? Becausethis film, I really think of this
film as sort of it's sort ofmy love letter to America. Yeah,
Like I feel like it's sort ofwe stamp your passport to go to all
these places in America that a lotof people just don't go to and remind
people that there's a lot of somuch beauty and so much stuff to be
proud of our country. But alsoemmylu Harris gave me a song. Willie
(18:08):
Nelson and Diane Warren wrote an originalsong. Oh my goodness, that's like
phenomenal. But Bruce gave me asong. I'm sorry, I'm like stuck
on that. And you know,it was it was amazing. You know,
he had come out with a western, a Western album, and I
was waiting for it, and I'mlike, because I knew there was a
track on it called Chasin wild Horses, and I'm like, and and you
(18:29):
know, for a song to workin a film, you know, it
has to lyrically and musically, ithas to work. It I honestly couldn't
believe how perfect it was. Andand we just have this scene in the
movie where you know, we're inWyoming, it's Magic Hour, and a
band of wild horses just literally,you know, runs by us with the
cloud kicking up in the sun andit's like we had a drone in the
(18:51):
sky and it was. It wasone of these one of those moments that
you'll never forget when you're making amovie, I'm sure. And his song
is set to that, and it'sit's pretty uh, it's pretty remarkable.
Well it is, and it's prettyremarkable that you have all of those that
cast of characters, all very wellknown names, to help you and contribute
to your film. I mean,that's phenomenal. So, you know,
(19:11):
the one thing I'm so I'm mostproud of is that they loved the way
that we approached the storytelling, andthat was to me the biggest thing because
it's a very complicated story and youknow, and you know, I'm sure
a lot of your listeners might noteven know that there's still wild horses exist
because it's such an sight out ofmind issue. And in ten Western states,
(19:33):
on our public lands, on landthat's managed by the Bureau of Land
Management, there are eighty thousand wildhorses out there and in captivity when the
Bureau of Land Management rounds them up, which is something that you know,
we address in the film. There'sover sixty thousand that are in government corrals
that are just sort of like feedlots. So we have really large numbers of
(19:56):
wild horses. And what we addressin the film is not only the magistry
and just how beautiful and you know, what they represent and how they came
to be, but there really isa management issue because there's federal law dictating
a lot of this. So wesort of cover all this grounds to make
sure that people understand the politics,the environmental impact, and all the elements
around wildhorses, because a lot oftimes, you know, the activists tend
(20:22):
to just try to simplify the issueand says, there's so much land out
there and let them be free.It's a nice sentiment, but there's federal
law that dictates that's not possible.Welcome people to try to change federal law,
but you show that, you know, just like with any big issue,
especially in animal welfare, you can'tjust wish things to be better.
If you want to do something,you actually have to roll up your sleeves
(20:42):
and do something about it. Dosomething. It's not a spectator sport,
you know, this is a participatorysport that if you want to actually,
you know, do good for theanimals, you actually have to do something
about it. Sure, no,that makes sense, And with your movie,
it's like knowledge is power because justlike you said, I'm sure many
people aren't aware of the wild horses, that they're even out there, or
(21:03):
how many the number like eighty thousand, that's more than I would ever think.
You know, I realized that Ilearned that from your trailer, like
wow, and I think that's justsomething that people don't know. For someone
who's listening, how what can theydo to help? Besides after they watch
your movie? When that because we'regoing to talk about when they can watch
(21:25):
it? But how can because it'sit's a topic that people are probably just
learning about now hearing about it,or aren't as familiar as say, as
like a shelter animal. What canyou know the average Joe or Jane do.
So we just had our premiere inLos Angeles and we had a panel
(21:45):
discussion afterwards, and just like me, I didn't know a lot about this
issue to begin with, which wasrealized like, hey, I need to
tell the story and I need totell it responsibly and properly. And when
we did our premiere, you know, over three hundred people were attended and
in the panel discussion, nobody leftthe theater because they wanted to know more.
Sure, And that's what the filmdoes is create this foundation of like,
(22:07):
Okay, this is the building blocksto kind of expose you to what
the story is and what sort ofthe rules of the game are so people
can learn more. But there's there'sa few things that people can do if
if they're really interested in the wildhorse issue. First of all, it's
it's seeking out credible sources of informationthat are following things politically. That's happening
in DC, and that's happening,you know, with the government agencies that
(22:29):
oversee the wild horses. So thereare groups like Return to Freedom, which
that we we feature in the film, and they do they have a sanctuary,
two sanctuaries in California, so theyactually bring in wildhorses onto their sanctuary
and they educate children and people cango there. It's not available to the
public where you can literally that's andmost people will see wild horses more in
a sanctuary environment than they will inthe wild because a lot of these places
(22:52):
in Colorado, Wyoming they've had arereally difficult to get to. But there's
other places like the ASPCA and theHumane Society of the United States. They
are working diligently on these issues andwork with a lot of the different stakeholders.
Because one of the things that's againthat makes things complicated and things that
I'm not particularly you know, enjoyingmyself, is that on the public lands,
(23:15):
the wild horse I mean, Ihave so much respect for the mustang,
I mean in busting is a magnificentanimals, right. But the public
lands, which are our lands,were really never taught about this stuff in
school. But they're are land.They're mixed use, meaning on that land
you also have recreation, you havehunting, you have other animals, you
(23:36):
have other endangered species. You haveyour ranchers to have grazing rights for cattle,
for livestock, cattle and sheep.You have mineral rights, so you
have companies that are doing oil andgas drilling. All these things happen on
our public land. So that's whyI was saying, when you educate yourself
for all these groups to understand it, you can't just say, oh,
(23:59):
there's millions and millions of akers,just let them be free, because it's
really complicated, complicating. They're inthe middle of this nexus of things that
are less than desirable. Even though, like I said, I have deep
respect and appreciation for the wildhorse,and they deserve they deserve better, they
deserve better management, and we reallyneed to be doing things right now in
(24:21):
order to preserve them for future generationsbecause things that are happening in Washington,
DC are going dictating things for thenext ten to twenty years. And what
we know for sure is that forthe years to come, the plan is
to get to round up by helicopter, which everybody hates about twenty thousand wild
horses a year every year, andso it now is the time for people's
(24:45):
voices to be heard. So thelast thing I would say about what people
can do is they're elected officials,they're congress people, their senators in DC
really important just to hear even ifyou were to phone, calls, emails,
letters to say I care about thewild horse issue, what are you
doing about it? Can you giveme any updates? Because every call,
(25:06):
every email is logged, and electedofficials, when they hear from their constituents
and they know what the issues arethey aware of, they keep track.
They keep itally all those messages,and with wild horses because most people don't
know about them because it is soout of sight, out of mind.
It's usually an issue that is muchlower on their priorities. And that shows
(25:27):
what happens legislatively when trying to protectthe wild horse. Right, okay,
so well, the first step forthe listeners, our listeners will be to
watch your documentary. So when willand where will they be able to see
the Mustangs America's wild Horses. Sowe have the We're just starting to get
(25:47):
our air dates, which is very, very exciting. So it's going to
be on PBS for broadcasts on televisionin the New York area. We just
got those in the last couple ofdays. So we're going to be showing
on Channel any W ANY channel thirteenon Sunday, July twenty first at six
thirty pm, and then on WLIWchannel twenty one. We're going to be
(26:10):
in primetime on Thursday, August twentysecond at eight pm. Nice and then
PBS has a World Channel and it'sjust you have to have to look for
it, but it's actually a standalonechannel and we are airing across the country
at one unified time on Monday,August twenty sixth at eight pm Eastern Time.
(26:33):
The World Channel Monday August twenty sixthat eight pm, but we'll be
airing all over the country. Oursocial media handle is the Mustangs Film,
so plural the Mustangs Film, andwe'll also be streaming for free on PBS
dot org in the fall. WowI love this, So that will be
step one for the listeners who aren'taware of anything with the Mustangs. But
(26:55):
this is your this is your firstassignment is to watch the film. So
Steven, I you know, I'mso fascinated by everything that you do.
I'm so I admire you so much. I don't even want to ask you
what's next for you because I feellike everything is like exploding and blowing up
right now. I'm a good havesomething to share if you'd like to hear
(27:15):
it, of course, of courseI do. Tell me I'm finishing soon
principal photography on a new episode ofShelter me that that's going to be relevant
to every single one of us,all of your listeners, you meet,
all of us. So it's anincredible story about the latest cancer treatments for
(27:38):
dogs. Wow. Literally, we'refollowing several clinical trials that are being done
for cancer treatments for dogs. Butbut here's the kicker is these treatments that
we're following which are having dramatic impacton like with immunotherapy on everything from osteosarcoma
to mouth tumors to all kinds oftumors and dogs that get and you know,
(28:00):
all of us dog owners have experienceddogs getting cancer. So the treatments
are exciting, are coming are goingto be available to us regular people soon.
But these treatments what they're learning fromthe dogs, as the dogs are
literally healing or extending their life,are now being applied to human clinical trials.
(28:22):
But when I see animals being miraclesthat you know, literally the clinical
trials that are being done with dogshave already moved into human clinical trials,
and it's only because of what welearned with the dogs, and the entire
cycle is being expedited. So thesedogs are not being experimented on, they're
getting really the most advanced clinical trialtreatments, and then the ones that are
(28:47):
showing to be really successful are movingquickly into human clinical trials. And in
this episode, we're not only goingto be showing dogs that had osteosarcoma that
have less than a year life expectancythat are now seven years later after treatment
are living their best life, butalso humans who have had osteo sarcoma,
which also have a very grim outcome, people that are alive today and living
(29:15):
their life cancer free because of thesetreatments. So we're in the middle of
an incredibly exciting episode that will beactually airing on PBS in January of twenty
twenty five. Wow. Okay,so we are going to talk again before
that airs. How's that need?Yes? Indeed? All right? Well,
Stephen Latham, thank you so muchfor your time, for everything that
(29:37):
you do. The world is abetter place because of you. Trust me
on that one. And I reallytruly mean that, and I thank you
and keep doing what you're doing becauseyou're teaching us, you're helping us.
I mean this whole thing with dogsand cancer. I mean honestly, my
dog lived eleven weeks because he wasdiagnosed with osteosarcoma. So that's right,
(30:00):
passed away from osteosarcoma. And andthese these treatments that are happening right now,
are are are changing the game.Wow, Maria, I just want
to thank you for being a heroto the animals as well, and uh
and your listeners for caring. It'sit's a it's a big deal, and
we we really need more people tokind of we we share the planet with
the animals and we need to continueevery day to see, uh do a
(30:22):
little bit more kindness for the animals. You're absolutely right, Well, thank
you and thank you It was adelight as always, Maria, I really
appreciate it.
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