February 24, 2025 • 18 mins
In this episode, host Phil Tower welcomes James Morin, an EV expert and founder of the blog on owning electric vehicles, ElectricMitten.com.
James embraces the electric vehicle as the future of transportation while acknowledging that EVs are not for everyone. James blog shares what its like to live with an EV in Michigan, and to highlight some of the great things our wonderful state has to offer. James joined us live from the Michigan International Auto Show to discuss the benefits and challenges of owning electric vehicles in the state of Michigan, and where he believes the ev sector is headed.
As a self-professed lover of EVs, James has owned an electric vehicle for 13 years. He keeps a close tab on the world of EVs and shared much wisdom on the process of researching and buying an electric vehicle.
He also talked about hybrid versus plug-in, electric hybrid's, and the pros and cons of each.
In 2023, more than 1 million new EVs were sold in the U.S., an important milestone. Plug-in hybrids also reached record sales.
Online: James's Blog
Electric vehicles, tax breaks for EV, EV sales, EVs and tariffs, Plug-in Hybrid Vehicles, EV charging stations, gas vs. electric.
James embraces the electric vehicle as the future of transportation while acknowledging that EVs are not for everyone. James blog shares what its like to live with an EV in Michigan, and to highlight some of the great things our wonderful state has to offer. James joined us live from the Michigan International Auto Show to discuss the benefits and challenges of owning electric vehicles in the state of Michigan, and where he believes the ev sector is headed.
As a self-professed lover of EVs, James has owned an electric vehicle for 13 years. He keeps a close tab on the world of EVs and shared much wisdom on the process of researching and buying an electric vehicle.
He also talked about hybrid versus plug-in, electric hybrid's, and the pros and cons of each.
In 2023, more than 1 million new EVs were sold in the U.S., an important milestone. Plug-in hybrids also reached record sales.
Online: James's Blog
Electric vehicles, tax breaks for EV, EV sales, EVs and tariffs, Plug-in Hybrid Vehicles, EV charging stations, gas vs. electric.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is iHeartRadio's West Michigan Weekend. West Michigan Weekend is
a weekly programmed designed to win form and enlightened on
a wide range of public policy issues, as well as
news and current events. Now here's your host, Phil Tower.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
It's West Michigan Weekend from iHeartRadio. Thank you so much
for tuning in. We are on location recording some programs
that you are hearing now on the radio from the
twenty twenty five Michigan International Auto Show at de Vos Place.
And James Morn is a blogger. He is I would
like to say, and we'll call in this for this
(00:37):
radio segment, the pre eminent EV guy here in the
state of Michigan, who knows everything about EV's and probably
more than the average person knows. James Mooren is with
us on this segment of West Michigan Weekend because we've
never done a full segment dedicated to electric vehicles, which
are becoming more prevalent in Michigan. James Morn, Welcome to
(00:59):
Westchigan Weekend on iHeart.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Hey, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
I'm so glad you're here. We are on the show
floor talking. Well here, we're at the auto show, Electric
Avenue is a part of this every year where they
have a whole lineup of electric vehicles. You were quoted
in a store on wood TV last year woodtv dot
com about the Auto Show about price points, and in
(01:23):
early twenty twenty four, we were beginning to see a
slowdown in kind of the excitement, the push towards selling
a lot of vehicles. All the major auto manufacturers except
for Toyota, and we'll talk about that, big pushes into EV's.
We had the F one fifty Lightning introduced, which was
twenty twenty two. Yeah, I think so, Yeah, it sounds
(01:46):
about right, big push for Ford and then they announced
last year they're pulling back on manufacturing. So it's twenty
twenty five. James Morin, where are EV's headed. What do
you think the whole EV movement is going to go
a year from now? You want to see a stabilized
pick up? Maybe not so much.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Well, I think idealistically I would love to see it
pick up. And I mean they don't have hard numbers,
but just anecdotally talking about more affordably like there, I
mean a year and a half or a year ago
when we talked, there was a ton of just really
expensive evs that not everybody wanted that much, car, needed
that much car had a garage big enough to fit it.
(02:27):
So there's there's a lot more of variety here. Twelve
months later, I know that the manufacturers have announced that
they're they're scaling back their their their dreams a little
bit as far as and they're trying to be a
little more realistic with where they are. I've seen a
ton of the new Equinox evs here in town just
in the last two or three weeks. I think there's
a lot of people that are maybe leasing a gas car,
(02:48):
they bring it in to turn in their lease and
they end up coming out with with an Equinox. This
is a car that you never saw except at the
auto shows. To now, I've seen probably ten in the
last month.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
However, watching Lives Football, which is now a distant memory. Sadly,
I did see a lot of spots that Chevy pushed
out for the Equinox EV, so they're hoping that becomes
more of a thing. I know, my my very good
friend Steve and I were talking earlier about the bolt,
which is kind of a disappointment because I knew people
(03:20):
and I know people who owned the bolt who really
loved that smaller I'm one of those guys.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Yeah, I had a bolt for two three. It was
at least it was a two or three release. And
at the end it happened my lease ended during the
bolt stop sale, so I had to go to a
different manufacturer. I would have gotten the newer, higher spec version.
Mine was a nineteen and it would do twent thirty
nine miles or so in the in the winter. It
(03:47):
took a little more of a hit than some cars,
and it didn't charge as fast on a road trip
as you would have liked. That was like a good
forty five minute recharge at a fast charge station. My
current car does it in half that time. But I
love that car. It was sporty. It drove really well.
We I own that when we were moving houses, so
what I would do is I would pull down the
backseat and I could get two four. I think I
(04:09):
get six tubs, like you know, like the storage tubs
of stuff in that and I just made tons of
trips back and forth and even loaded up with all
of our junken tubs. It still drove like a like
a hot etch. I mean it was, and it did
forty car.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
It didn't feel like it was really charging or really
taxing the electric drive train.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
I could still I could still trip the tires loaded
down with all our drunk it was. I loved that car.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
I love it. So why did Chevy stop? I know
there was a story to that. Why did they stop
making that affordable bolt EV?
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Yeah? So I think part of it. And this is
just speculation. I don't have inside track at JAM, although
if anybody at JAM wants to give me the inside track,
Electric Mitten dot com, Yes, absolutely, Hello Electric mit and
send me tips. No, that's my speculations. They hit they
now they had the ultium battery cells that are in
that new Equinox in the Blazer and all their full
(05:02):
sized vehicles, the Hummers and the and that was just
an expensive leap. So they were I think, trying to
offset the cost of the development of those batteries and
that platform, and the easiest way to do that was
to sell more expensive vehicles.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
All right, let's establish for our listening audience some base
facts here. James is not just a guy who calls
himself an EV expert. You've been driving EV's and writing
about EV's for thirteen years. Yep, you've owned several of
them thirteen years ago. That was twenty twelve. Yes, it
seems like one hundred years ago. What was your first EV?
Speaker 3 (05:39):
My first TV, and it's Don't get me wrong, I
love the current generation of EASE, but I think just
because that first one was so different and felt like
a spaceship compared to anything had driven at that point. Yeah,
I had the original Voult. It would go thirty seven
thirty eight miles on a charge, and then it would
have gas when it needed it. But it just felt
like a jets and style car. The noises it may
(06:00):
and so that was my first EV. And then then
I did the second version of the Vault. I moved
into my bowl. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
So the Vault was the four door Chevy Sedan.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Great, I had that giant tea battery. Yep. So it
was four doors, four bucket seats. Yeah, I had the
big hatch in the back. Okay, So the second generation
had a bench back there and that's we could get
three kids across the back of that one.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
But a thirty seven mile range, yes, yeah, not going
far in no.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
No, but the equivalent niss On Leaf at the time
was like a seventy mile range. I think that's why
the vault was so popular because with the extended range,
you know, that generator, it was a lot more usable
than that first gen leaf.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Biggest misconception people make today in twenty twenty five about
EV's there are a lot of naysayers still, which which
makes me scratch my head is they've been around for
quite a while. They've been around since the eighties to
be I mean even before that.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Ye yeah, I mean yeah, hundred plus years ago. I
had then a resurgence in the sixties. They looked at
it in the seventies. General Motors had a few. One
the sixties they had the electro bear concept, which was
just an electric corvet. They did two of those. They
did a hydrogen feel seal Van.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Okay, wait a minute, I'm a car guy. I never
knew there was an electric corvet seriously.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Not for sale? Yes, okay, yeah, it did the show circuit. Okay.
NASA tested it a little bit, like they because that's
some of that technology is what made the lunar rover possible.
That wow, there's I don't want to get into conspiracy theories,
but there's this darker theory that the electric beare was
really just cover for them to engineer the lunar rover
drive train.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Yes, okay, we'll leave it at that. Yeah, and then
Ralph Nader could have said, even though it's electric, it's
still unsafe at speed. Possibly, Yeah, still a collector's car
at some level.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Okay. In the soothies they had the electro Vet, which
was a chevette, not a corvette.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Evs have come a long way, James Moore, and you've
written about them for a long time at Electric mitton
dot com. Biggest misconception or misconceptions people are still making
in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Yeah, I mean I think a lot of people are still,
you know, thinking of those seventy mile Nissan Leafs. I
mean there's I think the lowest range you can get
on an EV at the show today is one hundred
and sixty one miles, which, to be fair, is not
a ton but fron around town back and forth. Thing.
It's great.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Well, wait a minute, though, you're a Grand Rapids guy,
you're a Michigan guy. Electric Miitton dot com is your blog.
You can get to Detroit almost brighton one hundred and
sixty miles.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Yeah, hundred and sixty miles. Yep. I think there's so
many more cars it'll easily do well over two hundred miles,
right that the new Equinox does a minimum of three
hundred and fifteen miles. So there's a lot of Yeah,
there's a lot of options and a lot of size
classes and price points, and we've come a long way.
So I think people are still we're still, you know,
(08:51):
dealing with all the misconceptions from when I bought my
first car in twenty.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Twelve, and a lot of people are hesitant to buy
a used EV because they think they're going to run
in the problem. So, well, this car has been used,
it's got eighty thousand miles on it. Oh, I'm going
to have to spend gobs of money on batteries kind
of help debunk some of those myths.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Yeah, so well, I think partially just cell phones have
trained us to the fact that a battery last two
or three years and then you need a new one.
That just doesn't seem to be the case in evs.
They the software pads it so you don't you don't
use one hundred percent even if it says one hundred
percent charge, you don't use one hundred percent of the
available battery cells, there's always a buffer. There's evs that
(09:31):
I'm well aware of with four or five hundred thousand
miles on their original battery, countless brake pads and tire
not even breakpads, sorry, tires and shocks and all the
other parts that needed to be replaced with that many
miles on a car, but still rocking the original battery
at five hundred thousand miles.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Which is pretty amazing. James Mooren with US blogger at
electric mitten dot com. As we're talking about kind of
taking a look at the state of evs in Michigan,
a million evs were sold across the country in twenty
twenty three. We're anticipating that number is going to go
up as prices continue to go down. You were talking earlier.
There's a Silverado on the floor here at the Michigan
(10:06):
International Auto Show. It's one hundred thousand dollars truck. It's
an EV Silverado.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
YEP, and that one's loaded. They do they do start
lower than that. But the one that we have on
display is yeah, F one fifty.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
If I want to buy an F one to fifty
Lightning seventy base Model.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Sixties or seventies. Yeah, are there's some great incentives out
there right now. Leasing is very attractive at the moment.
You get the seventy five hundred dollars tax credit if
you lease any EV under eighty thousand dollars on the
sticker price. Okay, I'm with it. There's certain tucture tax guy,
there's certain recrements you have to make under a certain threshold. Yeah.
But for the average consumer.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Yeah, that's important to note. So let's just talk about
day to day use. James Bourne, you are driving a
Chrysler pacifica plug in hybrid, and I want to back
up just for a moment. There are hybrids which are
gas electric combo. I know this because I just want
to used hybrid that the hybrid runs it seems like
(11:04):
when I'm just creeping around a parking lot, things like that,
and then it kicks in automatically when I take off
at a stoplight, et cetera. So it's an electric mode
that's available than gas assist when needed. Yeah, and then
there's a plug in hybrid which you own, and then
there's plug in electric hybrid, and then there's all electric.
Did I miss any in the whole EV spectrum.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Yeah, so there's there's typically considered four classes of electric vehicles.
So you have the hybrid electric that you that charges
the it's usually going to be a small battery that
charges off of the gas engine like a regular hybrid.
Then you have the plug in hybrid which you can
plug in and then when that battery is depleted, the
gas engine kicks in and powers vehicle. You have the
full electric that's so I have one of each. I
(11:45):
have a plug in hybrid minivan the PACIFICA, and then
I have a full electric city on that I drive.
And then there's also a not in Michigan. They don't
sell them here, but there's a fuel cell electric vehicle
which uses hydrogen as a generator. It doesn't really have
a battery or it's a it's a very very tiny batter,
more like an ultra capacitor where it makes it. It's
a it's a rolling electric power plant basically, so it's
(12:06):
it's an electric vehicle as electric motors, but the hydrogen
creates electricity.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Some of the rapid buses in Grand Rapids are hydro.
I think they're hydrogen, right, I believe.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
I'm not sure, Yeah, I know, I know most of
their buses have switched to a hybrid model, which I
think is wonderful.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Yeah. Yeah, James Mooren is with us. So we're talking
about you recently, maybe it was a year ago. Took
took the family in the mini van in an Exca
American story, absolutely road trip to Florida. This is a
plug in electric pacifica Chrysler PACIFICA, probably one of the
best selling mini vans out there. You bought it a
couple of years ago as one of the few plug
(12:43):
in electric hybrid, plug in electric hybrids, or plug in
electric vehicles.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
Yeah. I tend to just call it a plug in PHIV,
plug in hybrid electric.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Yeah, yeah, and they're out there. You drove it to Florida,
which might surprise a lot of people, especially got kids
until talk about that experience.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Yeah, so that was that was that was a great trip. So,
like said, the minivan is great Monday through Friday. We
don't use any gas then and then we you know,
load it full of kids and drive to Florida. Obviously.
So the downside do a plug in hybrid is they
don't typically do a rapid charge because it's a thirty
ish mile thirty to fifty mile depending on the vehicle range.
(13:23):
I think the only vehicle I know of that it's
a plug and hybrid that does a fast charge is
the Mitsubishi Outlander plug and hybrid. Okay, but away so
the minivan. You know, we used gas all the way
down there, stopped at BUCkies and ate the brisket sandwich
and you know, the classic American road trip in ever
since of the word. But then once we got down
to Orlando where we stayed, head charging. So every night
we plugged the van in, drove to the parks and
(13:45):
did all our sight seeing on electric. And then at
the end of the week when it was time to
come home. Yeah, since then, I've taken my fully V.
We went down to the Smoky Mountains this passed October,
just me and my wife, and then took my my
oldest to do some college visits and did an all
electric road trip up to Hoton That took some planning. Okay,
all the way up through Marquette fast charging. Can't beat it.
(14:07):
Ye have a fast charging threshold, I would like it.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Okay, Hello, Keewana County Visitors Bureaus.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
If my child chooses to go there, I might have
to get creative.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Get a few more plug in stations. How do you
know what works for your EV Sedan versus your Pacific
plug in hybrid electric vehicle.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Yeah, this is another thing where I think it's not
just a misconception but a learning opportunity. The software in
these vehicles has gotten so much better. I would say
that my EV range indicator in my first two or
three cars even was really the classic guessometer. I mean
it like this is roughly. It could change it any moment. Yeah,
(14:52):
in this current classic vehicles, it really is much better.
I would say within a mile or two of accurate
in most cases. Is I mean obviously, you know, a
surprise drop in temperature twenty degrees is it's gonna hit
you a little bit. But yeah, it's it's they've come
a long way. I type in my destination, the vehicle
knows I'm gonna need to charge here, here, and here
(15:12):
roughly how long I should stay there. Often it's like
charge here for seven minutes. Well, on a road trip,
it takes us long in that to go in get
a drink.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Yeah, come heack out exactly, But.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Yeah, it's the software has come a long way. The
charging networks have come a long, long way.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
I've got a couple of minutes left, and I told
you I wanted to ask you this. So our listener
on the other end of the radio or on their
phone or jogging hearing us as a podcast is in
the market for an EV in twenty twenty five here
in West Michigan again about a minute and half left.
What is your best advice for them? Looking researching? First
(15:49):
of all, electricmitton dot com. You can get a lot
of great research and wisdom there. Going into a dealership,
maybe they say I want to get that Pacifico or
I want to get what's.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Your day and you're driving I have a Tesla Model three.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Okay, Model three, I want to buy a Tesla different.
We could do a whole other show on that. Absolutely, Yes,
what do you recommend to them? Yeah, I think take
a good look at what you actually drive.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
I think a lot of people say, oh, I need
you know, five hundred miles of range, and you know
it's got to be able to do all these things.
But honestly, when it comes right down to it, like
my day to day, I didn't need a big vehicle.
My car. If we road trip it, it's going to
be two people. So really take a look at how
you're using it, and then because there is still there's
still a price discrepancy that's getting better every year. I
(16:35):
mean an EV and a gas engine or usually within
a few thousand dollars now. It used to be within
ten or twenty thousand dollars a few years ago. But
another way to calculate that is just write down what
you spend in gas every month and then look at
what you're gonna spend in electricity. Consumers has some great
pro Consumers Energy if you're in West Michigan has some
(16:56):
great programs for EV owners. They need to just verify
that you own an EV, give me your vent number
and they say, oh, yeah, that's an extra number. But
so then you get a different charging rate. It costs
me fourteen cents per kilo one hour to charge my
car at home or per kilo I mean to charge
my car at home. I can fill my car for
like five bucks and then I can drive all week
(17:16):
on that, so my my fuel costs is nothing essentially,
which helps offset maybe some of that MUNTHI payment because
it is a little more.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
It's a gas tank in the Chrysler.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Oh, it's sixteen gallon, so it's a full size tank.
It's a full size tank. And even that the plug
when when you've depleted the battery, our minivan gets easily
thirty miles to the gallon in hybrid mode, so I
mean we can go I think six hundred miles between
a full tank and a full charge.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
It's it's amazing.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
It's a pretty slick vehicle.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
I could spend another half hour with you, but we're
just about out a time. James morn is the blogger,
the founder, theev guy at electricmitten dot com. Electricmitten dot com,
highly recommend it. Check it out. You can like there's
an MG ev on there, which is a pretty sexy
looking vehicle. I was going to say, that's your fantasy car.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
If there's some cars that they can get in Europe
that I would love to at least say I got
to test drive that MG convertible is one of them.
That's that's the one market we're definitely missing. Yes, there's
no good convertibles that electric in the States.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
I agree one hundred percent. Check it out at electricmitton
dot com. James Moore, and thanks so much for joining.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
He's been with us on this segment of West Michigan Weekend.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
You've been listening to iHeartRadio's West Michigan Weekend. West Michigan
Weekend is a production of Wood Radio and iHeartRadio.
This is iHeartRadio's West Michigan Weekend. West Michigan Weekend is
a weekly programmed designed to win form and enlightened on
a wide range of public policy issues, as well as
news and current events. Now here's your host, Phil Tower.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
It's West Michigan Weekend from iHeartRadio. Thank you so much
for tuning in. We are on location recording some programs
that you are hearing now on the radio from the
twenty twenty five Michigan International Auto Show at de Vos Place.
And James Morn is a blogger. He is I would
like to say, and we'll call in this for this
(00:37):
radio segment, the pre eminent EV guy here in the
state of Michigan, who knows everything about EV's and probably
more than the average person knows. James Mooren is with
us on this segment of West Michigan Weekend because we've
never done a full segment dedicated to electric vehicles, which
are becoming more prevalent in Michigan. James Morn, Welcome to
(00:59):
Westchigan Weekend on iHeart.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Hey, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
I'm so glad you're here. We are on the show
floor talking. Well here, we're at the auto show, Electric
Avenue is a part of this every year where they
have a whole lineup of electric vehicles. You were quoted
in a store on wood TV last year woodtv dot
com about the Auto Show about price points, and in
(01:23):
early twenty twenty four, we were beginning to see a
slowdown in kind of the excitement, the push towards selling
a lot of vehicles. All the major auto manufacturers except
for Toyota, and we'll talk about that, big pushes into EV's.
We had the F one fifty Lightning introduced, which was
twenty twenty two. Yeah, I think so, Yeah, it sounds
(01:46):
about right, big push for Ford and then they announced
last year they're pulling back on manufacturing. So it's twenty
twenty five. James Morin, where are EV's headed. What do
you think the whole EV movement is going to go
a year from now? You want to see a stabilized
pick up? Maybe not so much.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Well, I think idealistically I would love to see it
pick up. And I mean they don't have hard numbers,
but just anecdotally talking about more affordably like there, I
mean a year and a half or a year ago
when we talked, there was a ton of just really
expensive evs that not everybody wanted that much, car, needed
that much car had a garage big enough to fit it.
(02:27):
So there's there's a lot more of variety here. Twelve
months later, I know that the manufacturers have announced that
they're they're scaling back their their their dreams a little
bit as far as and they're trying to be a
little more realistic with where they are. I've seen a
ton of the new Equinox evs here in town just
in the last two or three weeks. I think there's
a lot of people that are maybe leasing a gas car,
(02:48):
they bring it in to turn in their lease and
they end up coming out with with an Equinox. This
is a car that you never saw except at the
auto shows. To now, I've seen probably ten in the
last month.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
However, watching Lives Football, which is now a distant memory. Sadly,
I did see a lot of spots that Chevy pushed
out for the Equinox EV, so they're hoping that becomes
more of a thing. I know, my my very good
friend Steve and I were talking earlier about the bolt,
which is kind of a disappointment because I knew people
(03:20):
and I know people who owned the bolt who really
loved that smaller I'm one of those guys.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Yeah, I had a bolt for two three. It was
at least it was a two or three release. And
at the end it happened my lease ended during the
bolt stop sale, so I had to go to a
different manufacturer. I would have gotten the newer, higher spec version.
Mine was a nineteen and it would do twent thirty
nine miles or so in the in the winter. It
(03:47):
took a little more of a hit than some cars,
and it didn't charge as fast on a road trip
as you would have liked. That was like a good
forty five minute recharge at a fast charge station. My
current car does it in half that time. But I
love that car. It was sporty. It drove really well.
We I own that when we were moving houses, so
what I would do is I would pull down the
backseat and I could get two four. I think I
(04:09):
get six tubs, like you know, like the storage tubs
of stuff in that and I just made tons of
trips back and forth and even loaded up with all
of our junken tubs. It still drove like a like
a hot etch. I mean it was, and it did
forty car.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
It didn't feel like it was really charging or really
taxing the electric drive train.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
I could still I could still trip the tires loaded
down with all our drunk it was. I loved that car.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
I love it. So why did Chevy stop? I know
there was a story to that. Why did they stop
making that affordable bolt EV?
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Yeah? So I think part of it. And this is
just speculation. I don't have inside track at JAM, although
if anybody at JAM wants to give me the inside track,
Electric Mitten dot com, Yes, absolutely, Hello Electric mit and
send me tips. No, that's my speculations. They hit they
now they had the ultium battery cells that are in
that new Equinox in the Blazer and all their full
(05:02):
sized vehicles, the Hummers and the and that was just
an expensive leap. So they were I think, trying to
offset the cost of the development of those batteries and
that platform, and the easiest way to do that was
to sell more expensive vehicles.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
All right, let's establish for our listening audience some base
facts here. James is not just a guy who calls
himself an EV expert. You've been driving EV's and writing
about EV's for thirteen years. Yep, you've owned several of
them thirteen years ago. That was twenty twelve. Yes, it
seems like one hundred years ago. What was your first EV?
Speaker 3 (05:39):
My first TV, and it's Don't get me wrong, I
love the current generation of EASE, but I think just
because that first one was so different and felt like
a spaceship compared to anything had driven at that point. Yeah,
I had the original Voult. It would go thirty seven
thirty eight miles on a charge, and then it would
have gas when it needed it. But it just felt
like a jets and style car. The noises it may
(06:00):
and so that was my first EV. And then then
I did the second version of the Vault. I moved
into my bowl. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
So the Vault was the four door Chevy Sedan.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Great, I had that giant tea battery. Yep. So it
was four doors, four bucket seats. Yeah, I had the
big hatch in the back. Okay, So the second generation
had a bench back there and that's we could get
three kids across the back of that one.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
But a thirty seven mile range, yes, yeah, not going
far in no.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
No, but the equivalent niss On Leaf at the time
was like a seventy mile range. I think that's why
the vault was so popular because with the extended range,
you know, that generator, it was a lot more usable
than that first gen leaf.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Biggest misconception people make today in twenty twenty five about
EV's there are a lot of naysayers still, which which
makes me scratch my head is they've been around for
quite a while. They've been around since the eighties to
be I mean even before that.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Ye yeah, I mean yeah, hundred plus years ago. I
had then a resurgence in the sixties. They looked at
it in the seventies. General Motors had a few. One
the sixties they had the electro bear concept, which was
just an electric corvet. They did two of those. They
did a hydrogen feel seal Van.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Okay, wait a minute, I'm a car guy. I never
knew there was an electric corvet seriously.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Not for sale? Yes, okay, yeah, it did the show circuit. Okay.
NASA tested it a little bit, like they because that's
some of that technology is what made the lunar rover possible.
That wow, there's I don't want to get into conspiracy theories,
but there's this darker theory that the electric beare was
really just cover for them to engineer the lunar rover
drive train.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Yes, okay, we'll leave it at that. Yeah, and then
Ralph Nader could have said, even though it's electric, it's
still unsafe at speed. Possibly, Yeah, still a collector's car
at some level.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Okay. In the soothies they had the electro Vet, which
was a chevette, not a corvette.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Evs have come a long way, James Moore, and you've
written about them for a long time at Electric mitton
dot com. Biggest misconception or misconceptions people are still making
in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Yeah, I mean I think a lot of people are still,
you know, thinking of those seventy mile Nissan Leafs. I
mean there's I think the lowest range you can get
on an EV at the show today is one hundred
and sixty one miles, which, to be fair, is not
a ton but fron around town back and forth. Thing.
It's great.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Well, wait a minute, though, you're a Grand Rapids guy,
you're a Michigan guy. Electric Miitton dot com is your blog.
You can get to Detroit almost brighton one hundred and
sixty miles.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Yeah, hundred and sixty miles. Yep. I think there's so
many more cars it'll easily do well over two hundred miles,
right that the new Equinox does a minimum of three
hundred and fifteen miles. So there's a lot of Yeah,
there's a lot of options and a lot of size
classes and price points, and we've come a long way.
So I think people are still we're still, you know,
(08:51):
dealing with all the misconceptions from when I bought my
first car in twenty.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Twelve, and a lot of people are hesitant to buy
a used EV because they think they're going to run
in the problem. So, well, this car has been used,
it's got eighty thousand miles on it. Oh, I'm going
to have to spend gobs of money on batteries kind
of help debunk some of those myths.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Yeah, so well, I think partially just cell phones have
trained us to the fact that a battery last two
or three years and then you need a new one.
That just doesn't seem to be the case in evs.
They the software pads it so you don't you don't
use one hundred percent even if it says one hundred
percent charge, you don't use one hundred percent of the
available battery cells, there's always a buffer. There's evs that
(09:31):
I'm well aware of with four or five hundred thousand
miles on their original battery, countless brake pads and tire
not even breakpads, sorry, tires and shocks and all the
other parts that needed to be replaced with that many
miles on a car, but still rocking the original battery
at five hundred thousand miles.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Which is pretty amazing. James Mooren with US blogger at
electric mitten dot com. As we're talking about kind of
taking a look at the state of evs in Michigan,
a million evs were sold across the country in twenty
twenty three. We're anticipating that number is going to go
up as prices continue to go down. You were talking earlier.
There's a Silverado on the floor here at the Michigan
(10:06):
International Auto Show. It's one hundred thousand dollars truck. It's
an EV Silverado.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
YEP, and that one's loaded. They do they do start
lower than that. But the one that we have on
display is yeah, F one fifty.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
If I want to buy an F one to fifty
Lightning seventy base Model.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Sixties or seventies. Yeah, are there's some great incentives out
there right now. Leasing is very attractive at the moment.
You get the seventy five hundred dollars tax credit if
you lease any EV under eighty thousand dollars on the
sticker price. Okay, I'm with it. There's certain tucture tax guy,
there's certain recrements you have to make under a certain threshold. Yeah.
But for the average consumer.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Yeah, that's important to note. So let's just talk about
day to day use. James Bourne, you are driving a
Chrysler pacifica plug in hybrid, and I want to back
up just for a moment. There are hybrids which are
gas electric combo. I know this because I just want
to used hybrid that the hybrid runs it seems like
(11:04):
when I'm just creeping around a parking lot, things like that,
and then it kicks in automatically when I take off
at a stoplight, et cetera. So it's an electric mode
that's available than gas assist when needed. Yeah, and then
there's a plug in hybrid which you own, and then
there's plug in electric hybrid, and then there's all electric.
Did I miss any in the whole EV spectrum.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Yeah, so there's there's typically considered four classes of electric vehicles.
So you have the hybrid electric that you that charges
the it's usually going to be a small battery that
charges off of the gas engine like a regular hybrid.
Then you have the plug in hybrid which you can
plug in and then when that battery is depleted, the
gas engine kicks in and powers vehicle. You have the
full electric that's so I have one of each. I
(11:45):
have a plug in hybrid minivan the PACIFICA, and then
I have a full electric city on that I drive.
And then there's also a not in Michigan. They don't
sell them here, but there's a fuel cell electric vehicle
which uses hydrogen as a generator. It doesn't really have
a battery or it's a it's a very very tiny batter,
more like an ultra capacitor where it makes it. It's
a it's a rolling electric power plant basically, so it's
(12:06):
it's an electric vehicle as electric motors, but the hydrogen
creates electricity.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Some of the rapid buses in Grand Rapids are hydro.
I think they're hydrogen, right, I believe.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
I'm not sure, Yeah, I know, I know most of
their buses have switched to a hybrid model, which I
think is wonderful.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Yeah. Yeah, James Mooren is with us. So we're talking
about you recently, maybe it was a year ago. Took
took the family in the mini van in an Exca
American story, absolutely road trip to Florida. This is a
plug in electric pacifica Chrysler PACIFICA, probably one of the
best selling mini vans out there. You bought it a
couple of years ago as one of the few plug
(12:43):
in electric hybrid, plug in electric hybrids, or plug in
electric vehicles.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
Yeah. I tend to just call it a plug in PHIV,
plug in hybrid electric.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Yeah, yeah, and they're out there. You drove it to Florida,
which might surprise a lot of people, especially got kids
until talk about that experience.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Yeah, so that was that was that was a great trip. So,
like said, the minivan is great Monday through Friday. We
don't use any gas then and then we you know,
load it full of kids and drive to Florida. Obviously.
So the downside do a plug in hybrid is they
don't typically do a rapid charge because it's a thirty
ish mile thirty to fifty mile depending on the vehicle range.
(13:23):
I think the only vehicle I know of that it's
a plug and hybrid that does a fast charge is
the Mitsubishi Outlander plug and hybrid. Okay, but away so
the minivan. You know, we used gas all the way
down there, stopped at BUCkies and ate the brisket sandwich
and you know, the classic American road trip in ever
since of the word. But then once we got down
to Orlando where we stayed, head charging. So every night
we plugged the van in, drove to the parks and
(13:45):
did all our sight seeing on electric. And then at
the end of the week when it was time to
come home. Yeah, since then, I've taken my fully V.
We went down to the Smoky Mountains this passed October,
just me and my wife, and then took my my
oldest to do some college visits and did an all
electric road trip up to Hoton That took some planning. Okay,
all the way up through Marquette fast charging. Can't beat it.
(14:07):
Ye have a fast charging threshold, I would like it.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Okay, Hello, Keewana County Visitors Bureaus.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
If my child chooses to go there, I might have
to get creative.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Get a few more plug in stations. How do you
know what works for your EV Sedan versus your Pacific
plug in hybrid electric vehicle.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Yeah, this is another thing where I think it's not
just a misconception but a learning opportunity. The software in
these vehicles has gotten so much better. I would say
that my EV range indicator in my first two or
three cars even was really the classic guessometer. I mean
it like this is roughly. It could change it any moment. Yeah,
(14:52):
in this current classic vehicles, it really is much better.
I would say within a mile or two of accurate
in most cases. Is I mean obviously, you know, a
surprise drop in temperature twenty degrees is it's gonna hit
you a little bit. But yeah, it's it's they've come
a long way. I type in my destination, the vehicle
knows I'm gonna need to charge here, here, and here
(15:12):
roughly how long I should stay there. Often it's like
charge here for seven minutes. Well, on a road trip,
it takes us long in that to go in get
a drink.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Yeah, come heack out exactly, But.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Yeah, it's the software has come a long way. The
charging networks have come a long, long way.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
I've got a couple of minutes left, and I told
you I wanted to ask you this. So our listener
on the other end of the radio or on their
phone or jogging hearing us as a podcast is in
the market for an EV in twenty twenty five here
in West Michigan again about a minute and half left.
What is your best advice for them? Looking researching? First
(15:49):
of all, electricmitton dot com. You can get a lot
of great research and wisdom there. Going into a dealership,
maybe they say I want to get that Pacifico or
I want to get what's.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Your day and you're driving I have a Tesla Model three.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Okay, Model three, I want to buy a Tesla different.
We could do a whole other show on that. Absolutely, Yes,
what do you recommend to them? Yeah, I think take
a good look at what you actually drive.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
I think a lot of people say, oh, I need
you know, five hundred miles of range, and you know
it's got to be able to do all these things.
But honestly, when it comes right down to it, like
my day to day, I didn't need a big vehicle.
My car. If we road trip it, it's going to
be two people. So really take a look at how
you're using it, and then because there is still there's
still a price discrepancy that's getting better every year. I
(16:35):
mean an EV and a gas engine or usually within
a few thousand dollars now. It used to be within
ten or twenty thousand dollars a few years ago. But
another way to calculate that is just write down what
you spend in gas every month and then look at
what you're gonna spend in electricity. Consumers has some great
pro Consumers Energy if you're in West Michigan has some
(16:56):
great programs for EV owners. They need to just verify
that you own an EV, give me your vent number
and they say, oh, yeah, that's an extra number. But
so then you get a different charging rate. It costs
me fourteen cents per kilo one hour to charge my
car at home or per kilo I mean to charge
my car at home. I can fill my car for
like five bucks and then I can drive all week
(17:16):
on that, so my my fuel costs is nothing essentially,
which helps offset maybe some of that MUNTHI payment because
it is a little more.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
It's a gas tank in the Chrysler.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Oh, it's sixteen gallon, so it's a full size tank.
It's a full size tank. And even that the plug
when when you've depleted the battery, our minivan gets easily
thirty miles to the gallon in hybrid mode, so I
mean we can go I think six hundred miles between
a full tank and a full charge.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
It's it's amazing.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
It's a pretty slick vehicle.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
I could spend another half hour with you, but we're
just about out a time. James morn is the blogger,
the founder, theev guy at electricmitten dot com. Electricmitten dot com,
highly recommend it. Check it out. You can like there's
an MG ev on there, which is a pretty sexy
looking vehicle. I was going to say, that's your fantasy car.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
If there's some cars that they can get in Europe
that I would love to at least say I got
to test drive that MG convertible is one of them.
That's that's the one market we're definitely missing. Yes, there's
no good convertibles that electric in the States.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
I agree one hundred percent. Check it out at electricmitton
dot com. James Moore, and thanks so much for joining.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
He's been with us on this segment of West Michigan Weekend.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
You've been listening to iHeartRadio's West Michigan Weekend. West Michigan
Weekend is a production of Wood Radio and iHeartRadio.
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