March 6, 2025 • 13 mins
On this episode, host Phil Tower welcomes Scott Turow, NY Times Bestselling author, writer, and former practicing lawyer, who is the author of thirteen bestselling works of fiction, including Presumed Innocent. Scott’s a wildly successful best-selling author and writer, and a former practicing lawyer, who is the author of thirteen bestselling works of fiction, including Presumed Innocent.
His virtual event with The National Writers Series happened February 27 featured discussion on his new book, Presumed Guilty.
Online: The National Writers Series
Online: Scott Turow
His virtual event with The National Writers Series happened February 27 featured discussion on his new book, Presumed Guilty.
Online: The National Writers Series
Online: Scott Turow
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is iHeartRadio's West Michigan Weekend. West Michigan Weekend is
a weekly programmed designed to inform and enlighten on a
wide range of public policy issues, as well as news
and current events. Now here's your host, Phil Tower.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
It's West Michigan Weekend from iHeartRadio. Once again, thank you
so much for tuning in. You know, throughout the last
several years, we've had a real honor and pleasure a
great working relationship with our friends at the National Writers
Series in Traverse City, Michigan. National Writers Series Dot Org.
And you've got a big one for you coming up.
And this is the great thing. You don't have to
(00:38):
worry about the winter time and the polar vortex we're
experiencing right now of driving to Traverse City, a virtual
event with the one and only New York Times bestselling author,
former practicing lawyer, and really a true honor to be
able to welcome Scott Tureau to the National Writers Series.
(00:58):
On February twenty seven at seven pm. He is joining
us in this segment of West Michigan Weekend. I'm happy
to say from a much warmer, undisclosed location. We'll the
we'll keep the element of Suspense, Scott to Row, nonetheless,
welcome to West Michigan Weekend. It's great to talk with you.
(01:20):
I have great respect and really just so excited that
you're going to be doing this. I got to start off, though,
with a kind of an odd ball question. You're getting
interviewed by another best selling author, David Baldacci. I mean,
are you how do you prep for that? Scott?
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Well, in this case, it's pretty easy because I've known
David for quite a few years now. I have enormous
respect for David and his wife Michelle. They do a
lot of great work for the communities in which they live.
It's been one of my great pleasures to get to
know him over the years.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
So we're talking about David Baldacci. I mean, it's going
to be softballs. You've known each other for a long time.
You got to be really looking forward to this.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
I am. And you know, if David actually blurbed presumed guilty,
which is you know, my new book, So I'm like,
I already know that he likes the book, so I
won't be on tednor hooks. But I have a lot
of respect for him as a writer, and so it'll
be fun to be conversing with him.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
So let's talk Scott Turowe about the new book, Presumed Guilty.
This has a lot of things going on in the story.
And Aaron is the name of the young man who
is featured in your new book. He is the adopted
son of Bee and your iconic character Rusty Savage, the
retired prosecutor and lawyer. Aaron is also Scott African American.
(02:47):
So race figures into this. And I heard you talk
in another interview about the calculator risk you're taking making
Aaron black, but that was important to you. Can you
talk about that?
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Sure? You know, this is a great example of how
plot and character are interrelated. And as I began to
think about what would happen in this book, the setup
is that Aaron was on probation for a drug offense,
disappears and you know, it's gone basically into the wilderness,
(03:21):
camping with his girlfriend and falls under suspicion and subsequently
disappears there. And the question, of course is, well, what
kind of kid would crave be, you know, alone by
himself in the wilderness. And so it made sense to
(03:42):
me that Aaron would be a somebody who felt that
he had never been accepted, or that he never fit
in socially. And then that's why it struck me early
on that well, what if? What if he's African American?
And that of course adds a whole other layer when
(04:05):
he falls under suspicion for having murdered his girlfriend, the
one he had disappeared with, and because he comes back
without her and he's got her phone for seemingly inexplicable reasons,
and you know, it just fit. I could tell immediately
it fits the story. It would add a layer to
(04:25):
what would go on in the courtroom because he was
going to be tried in an all white county, and
so I knew it was the right decision for the book.
And as I said, you know, plot and character end
up playing together a lot of the time, and I
regard it as a, you know, a fortuitous decision, but
(04:47):
a really good one.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
And I think people are also aware, as you're will aware,
racial bias has been ingrained in the criminal, legal and
law enforcement system for the earliest days, I mean for
over a century. Continues to be an issue. That's why
we have things like the Innocence Project, right, and it's
(05:09):
prevalent not only Scott as you know, in trials but
also in sentencing, and it also plays on Rusty's mind
as he's decided to you know, kind of dust himself
off and jump back into this because he loves b
That's a really interesting thing too. So I love how
you did that. That had to be on your mind,
that this whole thing about how it's not only going
(05:31):
to impact Aaron, but it's going to impact Rusty.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
You know, when Rusty and the first visit Aaron in
jail to tell him that the lawyer who had represented
a previous drug beef was not willing to take this
case and that he was going to need a new lawyer, who,
of course, ultimately turns out to be Rusty, as you
(05:55):
you know, hinted that. So Aaron's first reaction is when
he says, rest. He says, you know, we're going to
find you a great lawyer, and Aaron who immediately says
not black. And they're facked, of course by this statement,
which you know they would neither have said themselves. But
(06:16):
Aaron then it's quick to explain and he says, you know,
I've been looking out my cell window and I haven't
seen a single African American pass by, and if a
jury walks in and sees two black people sitting across
the courtroom from them, they're immediately going to jump to
(06:36):
certain assumptions and it's not going to be They're not
going to be good presumptions for me, says Aaron. So
everybody is aware of the subject of race. I'm sure
that will be true in the United States, certainly for
the rest of my lifetime and probably long after. You
(07:01):
know that, you know the old saying America was born
in original sin and that sinless slavery, and you know,
we're still working it out more than four hundred years later.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
It's probably the most honest answer I think I've ever
heard regarding that question, because sadly it's true. It's part
of the original sin of the country. Scott to Row
is with US National Writer Series and Traverse Cities Please
to welcome Scott Torow to their website for a virtual
event on Thursday, February twenty seven, just a couple of
(07:37):
days away, seven pm. You can get tickets through the
website at National Writers Series dot org. National Writers Series
dot Org. You can also buy Scott's brand new book
We're talking about Presumed Guilty. You can buy it there,
and that will actually impact a local bookstore. You can
buy it wherever books are sold, and do buy local.
(07:57):
I know that means a lot to Scott and certainly
helps the bookstores, the brick and mortar bookstores out there,
and we've got plenty of great ones here in Grand
Rapids and across the state of Michigan. To shout out
to our Horizon Books in Traverse City. The tickets are
on sale for Scott's virtual event at the National Writers
Series through the website and you can get the virtual
(08:20):
tickets or only fifteen dollars. What a treat, What an opportunity,
And you can even submit a question for Scott through
the chat if David decides to throw that at Scott
for the interview. Scott, there's a really interesting part of
this book, and the character Rusty is now Rusty Savage
is now seventy seven, and you kind of have this
(08:43):
question of whether or not he still got it at
seventy seven. Yet every day in real life, a certain
seventy four year old And that's Scott's dog making a
cameo in the background.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Yeah, yeah, that's Monkey the dog.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Hey Monkey, Welcome to the radio program. Here on iHeartRadio.
So serious question. Though you're still performing at the top
of your game at seventy four, Rusty's seventy seven. I mean, honestly,
it's a real beautiful thing. We're redefining retirement as we're
living our lives, Scott, and Rusty's doing that in a
sense as well.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Well. You know, at one point Rusty russy is Bee
tells him that she thinks he should take Aaron's case.
Rusty comes up with every excuse imaginable except the one
that dawns on him in the middle of the trial
when he's just feeling utterly run over by, you know,
the physical work of trying a case, which is, of
(09:40):
course I'm not too old to do this. And one
great thing, of course about being a writer as opposed
to a trial lawyer, is that you can be at
the top of your game in the seventies, in your seventies,
even I suppose in to your eighties, depending on your faculty. Trying,
(10:01):
trying lawsuit is really it's often said to be a
young person's game, and you know it is. It's just
it's physically trying. You get on trial and you you know,
you don't sleep, You don't eat. It really depletes your
reserves for months to come. And I remember a lawyer
(10:24):
telling me he tried months long, months long cases involving
you know, utilities, and he said, and it was probably
about sixty five. He says, I figure, I've got one
more trial left in me. But you know that beyond that,
he wasn't going to have the stamina to do it again.
(10:48):
So but you know, yeah, Rusty, Rusty manages to, you know,
get it together and get to the end.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
And there are a lot of seventy seven year olds alone,
of even eighty four eighty five year old still killing
it in life every day to day. So I guess
we shouldn't be surprised by Rusty's rally, right.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
I live, Yes, I live in this undisclosed location where
most of the community is over fifty five, and I
see every day people in their mid eighties who are
going full steam. So age aging is a very mysterious thing.
(11:31):
And you know, but if you're touched by the lucky
stick and have good, good genes, and you've exerted some
care with your own well being, then you know there
are plenty of people who've got it all going. As
I said, well into their mid eighties.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Well, I don't think you're sticking it up to join
at all, Scott Trureau.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
I think you too.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
I think you're doing all right. Hey, it's been a
real honor pleasure speaking with you. I'm so excited that
so many people are going to be able to join
you virtually at Nationwriters Series dot org. That's this coming Thursday,
February twenty seventh at seven pm. You can hop online early,
but virtual tickets are only fifteen dollars and best of all,
(12:17):
you can buy Scott's great new book, Presumed Guilty, right
through the website at Nationalwriters Series dot org. It's been
a real pleasure. Thank you so much for joining us,
Scott Tree.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Thanks Phil. And if I can just echo something you said. Sure,
for people who enjoy the experience of walking into a
physical bookstore and being able to look around and pick
up books and see what interests them and just have
the kind of childish, childlike excitement that many of us feel,
(12:52):
then you've got to buy your book from independent bookstores
because they are not going to exist unless we support
them that way. Yeah, thank you for saying that, and
I echo it, and you know, everybody go out and
buy a copy of Guilty from an independent bookstore.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Thank you, wonderful plug, and I'm glad you did, and
thank you for doing great work at the young age
of seventy four, Scott, which is the new forty four.
You know, if you want to be honest.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
So I think that's what I'm telling myself.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Anyway, it's been a real pleasure. Thank you so much
for joining us here on West Michigan Weekend.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Thanks for giving me the time so I appreciate it absolutely.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
The one and only New York Times bestselling author Scott
Tureau again. You can get tickets to see him at
National Writers Series dot org. That's our program. Thank you
so much for tuning in.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
You've been listening to iHeartRadio's West Michigan Weekend. West Michigan
Weekend is a production of Wood Radio and iHeartRadio
This is iHeartRadio's West Michigan Weekend. West Michigan Weekend is
a weekly programmed designed to inform and enlighten on a
wide range of public policy issues, as well as news
and current events. Now here's your host, Phil Tower.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
It's West Michigan Weekend from iHeartRadio. Once again, thank you
so much for tuning in. You know, throughout the last
several years, we've had a real honor and pleasure a
great working relationship with our friends at the National Writers
Series in Traverse City, Michigan. National Writers Series Dot Org.
And you've got a big one for you coming up.
And this is the great thing. You don't have to
(00:38):
worry about the winter time and the polar vortex we're
experiencing right now of driving to Traverse City, a virtual
event with the one and only New York Times bestselling author,
former practicing lawyer, and really a true honor to be
able to welcome Scott Tureau to the National Writers Series.
(00:58):
On February twenty seven at seven pm. He is joining
us in this segment of West Michigan Weekend. I'm happy
to say from a much warmer, undisclosed location. We'll the
we'll keep the element of Suspense, Scott to Row, nonetheless,
welcome to West Michigan Weekend. It's great to talk with you.
(01:20):
I have great respect and really just so excited that
you're going to be doing this. I got to start off, though,
with a kind of an odd ball question. You're getting
interviewed by another best selling author, David Baldacci. I mean,
are you how do you prep for that? Scott?
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Well, in this case, it's pretty easy because I've known
David for quite a few years now. I have enormous
respect for David and his wife Michelle. They do a
lot of great work for the communities in which they live.
It's been one of my great pleasures to get to
know him over the years.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
So we're talking about David Baldacci. I mean, it's going
to be softballs. You've known each other for a long time.
You got to be really looking forward to this.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
I am. And you know, if David actually blurbed presumed guilty,
which is you know, my new book, So I'm like,
I already know that he likes the book, so I
won't be on tednor hooks. But I have a lot
of respect for him as a writer, and so it'll
be fun to be conversing with him.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
So let's talk Scott Turowe about the new book, Presumed Guilty.
This has a lot of things going on in the story.
And Aaron is the name of the young man who
is featured in your new book. He is the adopted
son of Bee and your iconic character Rusty Savage, the
retired prosecutor and lawyer. Aaron is also Scott African American.
(02:47):
So race figures into this. And I heard you talk
in another interview about the calculator risk you're taking making
Aaron black, but that was important to you. Can you
talk about that?
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Sure? You know, this is a great example of how
plot and character are interrelated. And as I began to
think about what would happen in this book, the setup
is that Aaron was on probation for a drug offense,
disappears and you know, it's gone basically into the wilderness,
(03:21):
camping with his girlfriend and falls under suspicion and subsequently
disappears there. And the question, of course is, well, what
kind of kid would crave be, you know, alone by
himself in the wilderness. And so it made sense to
(03:42):
me that Aaron would be a somebody who felt that
he had never been accepted, or that he never fit
in socially. And then that's why it struck me early
on that well, what if? What if he's African American?
And that of course adds a whole other layer when
(04:05):
he falls under suspicion for having murdered his girlfriend, the
one he had disappeared with, and because he comes back
without her and he's got her phone for seemingly inexplicable reasons,
and you know, it just fit. I could tell immediately
it fits the story. It would add a layer to
(04:25):
what would go on in the courtroom because he was
going to be tried in an all white county, and
so I knew it was the right decision for the book.
And as I said, you know, plot and character end
up playing together a lot of the time, and I
regard it as a, you know, a fortuitous decision, but
(04:47):
a really good one.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
And I think people are also aware, as you're will aware,
racial bias has been ingrained in the criminal, legal and
law enforcement system for the earliest days, I mean for
over a century. Continues to be an issue. That's why
we have things like the Innocence Project, right, and it's
(05:09):
prevalent not only Scott as you know, in trials but
also in sentencing, and it also plays on Rusty's mind
as he's decided to you know, kind of dust himself
off and jump back into this because he loves b
That's a really interesting thing too. So I love how
you did that. That had to be on your mind,
that this whole thing about how it's not only going
(05:31):
to impact Aaron, but it's going to impact Rusty.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
You know, when Rusty and the first visit Aaron in
jail to tell him that the lawyer who had represented
a previous drug beef was not willing to take this
case and that he was going to need a new lawyer, who,
of course, ultimately turns out to be Rusty, as you
(05:55):
you know, hinted that. So Aaron's first reaction is when
he says, rest. He says, you know, we're going to
find you a great lawyer, and Aaron who immediately says
not black. And they're facked, of course by this statement,
which you know they would neither have said themselves. But
(06:16):
Aaron then it's quick to explain and he says, you know,
I've been looking out my cell window and I haven't
seen a single African American pass by, and if a
jury walks in and sees two black people sitting across
the courtroom from them, they're immediately going to jump to
(06:36):
certain assumptions and it's not going to be They're not
going to be good presumptions for me, says Aaron. So
everybody is aware of the subject of race. I'm sure
that will be true in the United States, certainly for
the rest of my lifetime and probably long after. You
(07:01):
know that, you know the old saying America was born
in original sin and that sinless slavery, and you know,
we're still working it out more than four hundred years later.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
It's probably the most honest answer I think I've ever
heard regarding that question, because sadly it's true. It's part
of the original sin of the country. Scott to Row
is with US National Writer Series and Traverse Cities Please
to welcome Scott Torow to their website for a virtual
event on Thursday, February twenty seven, just a couple of
(07:37):
days away, seven pm. You can get tickets through the
website at National Writers Series dot org. National Writers Series
dot Org. You can also buy Scott's brand new book
We're talking about Presumed Guilty. You can buy it there,
and that will actually impact a local bookstore. You can
buy it wherever books are sold, and do buy local.
(07:57):
I know that means a lot to Scott and certainly
helps the bookstores, the brick and mortar bookstores out there,
and we've got plenty of great ones here in Grand
Rapids and across the state of Michigan. To shout out
to our Horizon Books in Traverse City. The tickets are
on sale for Scott's virtual event at the National Writers
Series through the website and you can get the virtual
(08:20):
tickets or only fifteen dollars. What a treat, What an opportunity,
And you can even submit a question for Scott through
the chat if David decides to throw that at Scott
for the interview. Scott, there's a really interesting part of
this book, and the character Rusty is now Rusty Savage
is now seventy seven, and you kind of have this
(08:43):
question of whether or not he still got it at
seventy seven. Yet every day in real life, a certain
seventy four year old And that's Scott's dog making a
cameo in the background.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Yeah, yeah, that's Monkey the dog.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Hey Monkey, Welcome to the radio program. Here on iHeartRadio.
So serious question. Though you're still performing at the top
of your game at seventy four, Rusty's seventy seven. I mean, honestly,
it's a real beautiful thing. We're redefining retirement as we're
living our lives, Scott, and Rusty's doing that in a
sense as well.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Well. You know, at one point Rusty russy is Bee
tells him that she thinks he should take Aaron's case.
Rusty comes up with every excuse imaginable except the one
that dawns on him in the middle of the trial
when he's just feeling utterly run over by, you know,
the physical work of trying a case, which is, of
(09:40):
course I'm not too old to do this. And one
great thing, of course about being a writer as opposed
to a trial lawyer, is that you can be at
the top of your game in the seventies, in your seventies,
even I suppose in to your eighties, depending on your faculty. Trying,
(10:01):
trying lawsuit is really it's often said to be a
young person's game, and you know it is. It's just
it's physically trying. You get on trial and you you know,
you don't sleep, You don't eat. It really depletes your
reserves for months to come. And I remember a lawyer
(10:24):
telling me he tried months long, months long cases involving
you know, utilities, and he said, and it was probably
about sixty five. He says, I figure, I've got one
more trial left in me. But you know that beyond that,
he wasn't going to have the stamina to do it again.
(10:48):
So but you know, yeah, Rusty, Rusty manages to, you know,
get it together and get to the end.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
And there are a lot of seventy seven year olds alone,
of even eighty four eighty five year old still killing
it in life every day to day. So I guess
we shouldn't be surprised by Rusty's rally, right.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
I live, Yes, I live in this undisclosed location where
most of the community is over fifty five, and I
see every day people in their mid eighties who are
going full steam. So age aging is a very mysterious thing.
(11:31):
And you know, but if you're touched by the lucky
stick and have good, good genes, and you've exerted some
care with your own well being, then you know there
are plenty of people who've got it all going. As
I said, well into their mid eighties.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Well, I don't think you're sticking it up to join
at all, Scott Trureau.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
I think you too.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
I think you're doing all right. Hey, it's been a
real honor pleasure speaking with you. I'm so excited that
so many people are going to be able to join
you virtually at Nationwriters Series dot org. That's this coming Thursday,
February twenty seventh at seven pm. You can hop online early,
but virtual tickets are only fifteen dollars and best of all,
(12:17):
you can buy Scott's great new book, Presumed Guilty, right
through the website at Nationalwriters Series dot org. It's been
a real pleasure. Thank you so much for joining us,
Scott Tree.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Thanks Phil. And if I can just echo something you said. Sure,
for people who enjoy the experience of walking into a
physical bookstore and being able to look around and pick
up books and see what interests them and just have
the kind of childish, childlike excitement that many of us feel,
(12:52):
then you've got to buy your book from independent bookstores
because they are not going to exist unless we support
them that way. Yeah, thank you for saying that, and
I echo it, and you know, everybody go out and
buy a copy of Guilty from an independent bookstore.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Thank you, wonderful plug, and I'm glad you did, and
thank you for doing great work at the young age
of seventy four, Scott, which is the new forty four.
You know, if you want to be honest.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
So I think that's what I'm telling myself.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Anyway, it's been a real pleasure. Thank you so much
for joining us here on West Michigan Weekend.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Thanks for giving me the time so I appreciate it absolutely.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
The one and only New York Times bestselling author Scott
Tureau again. You can get tickets to see him at
National Writers Series dot org. That's our program. Thank you
so much for tuning in.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
You've been listening to iHeartRadio's West Michigan Weekend. West Michigan
Weekend is a production of Wood Radio and iHeartRadio
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