May 29, 2025 • 34 mins
An incredible story of a woman who takes the torch ignited by her father’s entrepreneurial spirit and uses it to light up entrepreneurial dreams and positive change across continents and industries, all with heart, humanity, and hustle. Bashak Ilhan is a founder, five-time entrepreneur, digital strategist, and brand architect who has achieved two multi-million-dollar exits and boasts a global career that spans London, the Middle East, Europe, and the U.S. Bashak doesn’t follow the rules; she rewrites the playbook.
This episode is more than a resume—it’s a revelation. It tells the story of an individual who embraces her identity, relies on her resilience, and continually reinvents herself and her enterprises to seek and realize opportunities.
A blueprint for lighting your path in an increasingly complex world.
To learn more about Bashak's offering, Road Branding, and how they help companies expand internationally and manage their B2C and B2B operations, Click Here
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Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
In this world, there is nothing that you don't have a
competitor. You need to know your game.
What if your first lesson in entrepreneurship came
not from a business school, but watching your dad, his sleeves rolled
up, building something from nothing? The year was
1970, and the country was Turkey. I saw him
(00:24):
build so many different ideas from scratch. And what
if instead of just admiring this fire he lit, you chose to
carry his torch across oceans, across industries, and
that torch blazed your own trail. This episode isn't about
following a playbook, it's about rewriting one. My guest today
is Bashar Gilan. She grew up in the shadow of creation, the kind that doesn't
(00:46):
ask for permission, only possibility. Her father was
an entrepreneur in a time and place that made risk feel like rebellion,
but he planted something deeper than ambitionaire. He planted belief.
It wasn't easy. It wasn't that difficult, but the competition was so
high. As she took that belief, she boarded a plane and began building
a new soil with old roots. She didn't climb the corporate
(01:09):
ladder. She walked away from it. I always jump into the new thing. We
need to discover. We need to find. We need to get
used to it. She launched her first company in 2010,
and like any real founder story, it wasn't a perfectly paced
speedway. Wasn't all wins and venture rounds. There were moments where the money
was gone, the pressure was crushing, and no one was coming to save
(01:31):
her. I didn't know what to do. I thought that it was
it was done. But she stayed in the game. She learned, she built,
she found a way to build again, she exited and she started again. And
today, she's the founder of Road, a company that doesn't just
consult, it co builds. It's an external cofounder model that goes deep
where others stay surface. Business is personal to me. It
(01:54):
is. We are all human, and we have feelings.
Most of the time, we're missing that part. She's not launching campaigns.
She's now using her torch to relay the entrepreneurial spark in
others, helping founders find their soul and scale their story. This
isn't a conversation about business, about belief, about resilience. It's about a
woman who took her father's fire and made it her own and now passes a
(02:16):
flame forward. Today, we're gonna dive in the friction she faced, the
fuel that kept her going, and what she wants the next generation of founders to
know, how and where the spark began.
Hi. It's Tony Chapman. Thank you for listening to Chatter That Matters presented
by RBC. If you can, please subscribe to the podcast.
And ratings, reviews, well, they're always welcome, and they're always
(02:40):
appreciated.
Pishak, welcome to A Chatter That Matters. Thank you so much, Tony. Thank
you for having me. So I gave a a real nod to your dad at
the beginning. So maybe you could just take us back to that time where you
were watching him as an entrepreneur, and like I think a
lot of kids that have parents as entrepreneurs, you saw both fear and
(03:02):
fearless, I imagine, in his eyes. I was surrounded with new
ideas and new, you know, new brands and new companies
since when I was eight or seven. I saw him
build so many different ideas from scratch.
I never were worried about, you know, not
becoming a successful company. He was just following
(03:25):
his dreams, and he was trying everything. So that's what I learned
from him, and he included in the steps with me
as well. So when I was 10, I was thinking
about a brand name. I was thinking about the pricing strategy and
everything. It was it was awesome. And what about your mom?
Because there's a lot of times with an entrepreneur, you don't necessarily
(03:47):
feel security of someone knowing that they're gonna get a guaranteed check every week.
How was she in terms of supporting these dreams and ambitions?
My father wasn't an entrepreneur. He was like a crazy
person with the, you know, different ideas. My mom wasn't
really happy, at the beginning. She always want him
to get a, you know, the regular corporate job.
(04:10):
But along the way, she she supported him. I don't think
she had another another idea another chance, Tony. You
know? She had to. And when you look at yourself, the the sort of
DNA that roars between your mom and your dad, how would you best
describe your appetite for risk and your appetite for security? I
got that entrepreneurial soul from my father.
(04:34):
I got some risk analyzing from my mom.
So I have a kind of a balance. I analyze first.
That's why I'm a I'm a strategist, I believe. I look at the
numbers before taking an action, and then I dive
in. And when you think about the lessons in life that you
still carry with you, you know, I can think of some that my mom taught
(04:56):
me, my dad taught me. Is there anyone that stands out? Did you go,
anytime I'm feeling that I'm standing on shifting sand or I'm
feeling insecure, this is something I think about? It's
not easy. And I believe that you need to know,
what kind of a type of a person in business
life. Maybe you're not an entrepreneur and,
(05:18):
you know, the entrepreneurship is so fancy and everybody's talking about
it. Maybe you will be better in the corporate life, Tony. So
you need to know that. I have a very short of,
corporate life too. I could have fit in, and I
decided this is it. This is my way, and I know it's not
easy. And I am the responsible with everything,
(05:40):
and I'm the only one. No one wanna come and help me.
So when you think that way, when you accept it, I think it's a
little bit easier. So what gave you the courage to do it? Because, you know,
you're talking earlier about assessing risk before you make the
move, but you had a pretty good corporate you knew you
could go places with it, but you decided to jump off and be your own
(06:02):
boss at an early age. Believe me, I I tried.
I tried to fit in the corporate life. The corporate world
felt too slow, and the layer of, you know,
acceptance and approval process were killing
me. I couldn't fit in. I was the only one in the meeting,
at the meeting saying and asking and questioning and, you know,
(06:24):
the managers and directors and thinking about out of
the box, which they don't want you to do that. They just want you
to do the, you know, the job. So 2010, your first start up, and
it's facing significant challenges. I mean, that was after the big
global economic meltdown. And you talked about in one
of your, interviews that I listened to how dire it was when the money
(06:47):
was running out. Take us through that point in your life
because to me, very often is when you are at your worst
and you fight your way through is often what you remember the most
fondly later in life. That was really tough. I was
lucky though. I got the investment in the beginning from my
my boss. So it was easy. It wasn't that difficult,
(07:10):
but the competition was so high. And I remember,
one day, I went to the office, and I had a team of, like,
fifty fifty great people, And I couldn't see half of
them because, my competitor hired them and then
they offered tripled up their salaries and they they left in a
couple of minutes. After that, I just found out in couple of hours, all
(07:32):
my vendors were out of stock because my competitor
purchased all the stocks that I was selling as well.
That day, I didn't know what to do. I didn't know what to
say to my my master, and there was no money, no
team, you know, no products to sell in couple of
couple of days. I thought that it was it was done.
(07:56):
And I remember one person, I never forget
her. That was a home and decoration brand. And I met her at home and
decoration fair. And she came to me and she said, you know what?
I see that passion in your eyes. You're just just like me. I was just
like you when I was younger. And if something happened bad to you or, you
know, struggle so much, call me. I called
(08:17):
her, and she helped me a lot. She was a
vendor, and she gave all her his her product to me for you
know, without me paying first, like a consignment.
And I start running my business, and I made the
competitor out of the business in couple of months. I didn't
give up. I just allow myself to be set in couple of
(08:40):
days or hours, and I search for the different, you know,
solutions, and I was lucky to find one. What advice
can you give to people to be open to
strangers? I call them Yodas, the fairy godmothers of the
world that that somehow appear in your life at times to just
be open minded enough to know that that meeting could change your life
(09:03):
one day. You need to find your
hero. And if you're in a business, if you're in a family, if you're
in an entrepreneur, you know, building a relationship
is must, is so important. Because we
got into business, we hustle a lot, we're, you know, taking care of
the daily task and everything, but we have to make
(09:25):
connections. Those connections are saving your life
sometimes, saving your business, and you don't even know. I try to
do the same. If I see someone, I say the
same thing to them, and I, you know, give my, you know, phone number,
my contact information. I told them that, you know what? I've been through.
If if you need anything, I'm here. And I have been
(09:47):
mentoring, and I'm getting mentorship. I'm meeting peep people,
sharing my ideas, calling them in, you know, the good
days and bad days, checking on them is so
important. You don't know. For example, for for now,
we don't know. I may be really helpful for you one
day or you will be helpful for me one day. So this is a
(10:09):
great feeling. I'm trying to build it in two ways.
I think today, we're so absorbed with our screens and
what we believe are connections, but it really is face to face. As
you said, somebody saw the passion in your eyes. I can feel the
soul in your heart. What advice do you give to young people nowadays
to say that life happens beyond the screen?
(10:31):
It happens in the real world. It happens in coffee shops, walking through a trade
show, talking to somebody about an idea that it's so important to
have that human to human connection. Business is personal to
me. It is. We are all human, and we have
feelings. And we, most of the time, we're missing that
part. When we are having a meeting, either if you're an
(10:53):
agency and you're meeting with your new potential client,
We just talk about, what we do and then how we do it
and stuff. But I always try to stop and
understand, try to empathize what what are
they worried about. What is the fear
that they are stopping themselves to move forward?
(11:16):
If you think that way, you're starting to building a
trust, and you are letting them know that you've been
through or you understand them very well. As
a team, you're starting a creative plan
together. And if we are not right people
for each other, at the end of the meeting, I say, you know
(11:38):
what? This is very important. We met. And now we
know each other and what we do. Maybe it's not the time, but you
know me. If if I can help you with any way, you don't have to
work with me. We're gonna talk about roads because I'm fascinated by it. But
you've had two very successful ecommerce
businesses and exited from both. Just share with the
(12:00):
audience a little bit about those businesses
and what it meant to start them and what maybe it meant to sell them
and move on to another one. Because I very often, entrepreneurs never wanna let
go of their baby. But you seem to be have found this path that says
once this is done, I need to go somewhere else. The first one, it was
in 02/2010, home and decoration brand, and the ecommerce,
(12:23):
corporate in Turkey in Istanbul. And I went
to university in London, and I my first job was in US, and I went
back to Turkey to found that, corporate. So there
was an opportunity for luxury
session, and nobody was selling huge furniture like
bedrooms, the living rooms in a
(12:44):
luxury segment. And I saw that opportunity, and everybody
was thinking that I was, like, too you know, it's too difficult to do
it, but I wanted to try. I start building
the website. I hired one software developer, and I created one of
my room to a office. And I was, consulting at the
same time during the day to make money and then coming back home and
(13:07):
creating the creating my dream. That was kinda
easy for me to create things because I see it and I know
it. But along the way, when I started talking to
vendors and I understood that I am nobody to them, it
doesn't matter how much money that I'm willing to pay to buy the
product and sell it. They didn't wanna give the product to
(13:29):
me. They didn't believe it. And I was, like, stuck on that process.
I was thinking what to do, and I got a call from my, previous
boss, and she wanted me hire me again, for her next
job. And I went there to have a coffee with her, and I talked
about my project so passionately. And she at the end
of the coffee conversation, she offered me
(13:52):
investment. And I got the first investment. I got her
name behind my back, and I went back to vendors, and I
started that way. I managed that first company
for, like, four years. Doing business in Turkey
was so difficult, and I, realized that
I studied abroad. My first year was in US, and I didn't
(14:14):
really know how to deal with it. But I wanted to make it
really successful. When I get that point, I
knew that I couldn't carry it more. I sold my share, and I moved back
to New York. And I cofounded the second one. It was
small version of it. I just sold functional
furniture, not like a old home and decoration, and it got
(14:36):
so successful in, like, eight eight months because I
knew it. I was coming from a very tough market, and US
market was easier for me. I had a chance
to exit again, and I did it. Did you ever feel in that being a
woman either in Turkey or New York that you had different
obstacles or obstacles that were really placed in front of you because
(14:58):
the bias was, you know, you're a woman not a man.
Definitely. Especially in Turkey, especially in home and
decoration furniture industry, I couldn't get
that respect in the beginning. They were like, no. And
they didn't wanna work with me because, I was I don't know which one was,
the problem, being a young or being a young woman. And,
(15:20):
also, you need to build a relationship with
founders and the the brand owners to
deal with that. That's the style in Turkey, a little bit emotional. And
as a woman and man, we couldn't do that very well. But if I was
a man, I would have like, hey hey, buddy. Do you wanna do you wanna
hang out tonight, and do you wanna drink something? And then I could've I could've
(15:43):
build a little bit more deep relationship. I tried to,
hire right people to do that, but it wasn't enough.
So how I deal with that? With money, I
use the money power to purchase a little bit
more to cover that area. And when I moved to
US, I never felt that, you know, as a being a
(16:05):
woman entrepreneur was a problem, but we being
not being an American was a problem here. We tend
to close our minds to what we feel are not like minded.
And yet to me, so much and, you know, Canada where I'm from,
there's so many people that are questioning immigration. And I'm saying, you know, if we
let immigrants come here that have fought their way to our country,
(16:27):
that have resilience and courage and open the doors to them and
unlock opportunity, it's a gift for both.
And that's what I wanna talk to you now about road because to me, you
really are trying to help almost to how that woman helped you. You're trying
to help a lot of people succeed. You're trying to help them
light that path. So tell me a little bit about how Road came about,
(16:50):
and I'd love to just share some stories about why you feel this is your
calling. I found a role on my experience as a as
a founder. Finding a right company, right
agency was so difficult, and some of them were doing some
job and the other one was doing the other part. And also,
when you grow, you need to hire a manager to deal with your
(17:12):
agencies. One of them is a creative agency. The other one is digital marketing. The
other one is, like, you know, the, running the operation helping
you. So it was so difficult. So I wanted to work
international companies to grow in US market
or startups to build something from scratch. As an
agency, as a service provider, I wanted to act like their cofounder.
(17:35):
I know how to execute. I know what challenge they're gonna, you know, face.
And I've been, through this, and I can help with my professional
team. So that's, role became,
and I founded in Newark after those two exit, and I have been
working with, you know, companies from Europe,
Middle East to help them grow in US market, and I do the opposite.
(17:58):
I work with American companies to help them to grow in in that those areas
as well. Because I know I know how business works.
I know how, audience purchase products.
I am so thrilled. I'm so happy. And we work with
our clients for seven years, eight years, and they
allow me to act like they're cofounders too. We talked about
(18:21):
everything. If I don't know something, I tell them, I'm not acting
like a, you know, cool agency owner. I say, I don't
know the way. We haven't done it before, but let me try and let me
find it. And I find the solution and we discuss together and I take an
action with my team. So it was a perfect business
model for my soul, and I I love doing it. You
(18:42):
know, you talk about from your soul, but one of the things I love is
a quote you said in an interview that branding is about
crafting and keeping clear, compelling promises, and that a
business has to have a soul. Talk to me about that. My whole philosophy
in life has been head, heart, and hands. If a great brand, I get it.
Most importantly, I feel it, and then it's easy for me to buy it because
(19:03):
I feel it. So talk to me about your philosophy about soul.
Creating a brand is not finding a name, not even a
product or service that you're selling. It is a promise
that you're giving to your audience. If you think about the brands that
you like, you know what you're gonna find there.
Right? When you go to their shop or online shop, you know
(19:26):
H and M, for example. If you wanna go to H and M, you know
you're gonna find the trendy products in a cheaper,
you know, version and way. So this is H and M's
promise to you. When you're building, brands,
you need to think. You need to put your soul in it, and you need
to promise your audience, and you need to reflect that
(19:48):
to everything, with your name, with your messages, with your
color, with your, you know, decoration of your shop and everything.
And it is very emotional. If you cannot keep your
promises, this means you won't be able to build
a correct brand. Empathy, putting
your soul, creating your brand DNA to me.
(20:11):
Do you ever get pushback when you're dealing with a male entrepreneur
that says, that's all soft and interesting, but let's really
focus on how we're gonna drive more sales? I do. But
I'm mixed. In the beginning of the the process of creating
a brand, I'm very, you know, I'm using that female energy
and, you know, putting the trying to put the soul and everything. After
(20:33):
that phase, I switched to male energy, and I'm
just talking about sales and, you know, the profits,
how many different marketplaces we can be in. So I'm
kinda mixed, and I think that's the right thing to do. Because if
you're just talking about promises and stuff and
not doing anything or not taking care of the financial
(20:55):
part, it will die too. But in the beginning, my
message is clear. When you're clearing your minds what
you're doing, the other step gets so easy. You know,
your role, even though you position yourself sort of as a cofounder, it's a
role of influence versus authority. The people with authority are the
people that founded the company, potentially the investors behind the
(21:17):
company. How do you win them over with your ideas
and your sense of direction? What's your strategy? Because
there's a lot of people out there that are in a in a position where
they really only get to influence an outcome. They don't get to control it.
Idea is important, but it's not the business. So it
is a starting point. Execution is so important and
(21:41):
also financial. I think I start with financials.
This is the idea. This is the execution plan, but
those are the numbers. I always be honest with them and I
say, this is the expecting revenue,
but please think 20% less. And this
is the plan for, you know, expense. Please think
(22:03):
20% more because that's the reality.
Financially, you need to prove. You need to
validate the idea. Otherwise, you're a
great genius, with great ideas. You don't have an
execution plan. You don't have financial to support that,
and you are not honest to yourself, and you're not gonna
(22:25):
honest to your investor or your team or your
audience. So When we return,
I picked Bishak's brain about the inclusion of AI in today's
world. We also discussed education and where
she hopes her sense of soul will spread next.
(22:49):
Hi. It's Tony Chapman, host of Chatter That Matters presented by
RBC. RBC provides small business owners with resources that
go beyond banking. Resources that help them attract new customers,
build strong employee teams, and manage their money. To get
access to these services, go to rbc.com/beyondbanking.
Small businesses matter to RBC.
(23:21):
Competition is tough in every industry. It's very
difficult. If you wanna go global, it doesn't matter if you're in a
European company and wanna do business in US or or vice
versa. You need to think locally and act globally. That's
really tough. Today, my special guest is Beshak
Ghislain, a true entrepreneur with vision,
(23:42):
resilience, ability to dream and do. What
she does, she bridges the world between buyers and sellers.
Another article that you were in, you mentioned the fact
that AI, artificial intelligence, is
something we all have to embrace, but at the same time, something that
(24:04):
is creating a real concern with you. It is. And,
also, I have been doing this business for twenty five years. When I
started, there wasn't any social media, nothing. And I always jump
into the new thing. We need to discover. We need to find. We need
to get used to it. If there's something
dangerous, we need to keep our companies away from it.
(24:26):
AI is a similar thing. At the moment, I'm happy. We
are using AI to help us, not switching
our employees or not switching our, role
in the company. It's kind of a smart helper
to move a little bit faster, easier.
But in the future, I'm worried in some part
(24:49):
because security is so important. We are telling
everything. Simply, let me give you an example, ChetGPT. We
are asking a lot of question. We are sharing our personal talk. We are
sharing our business, information to get an
idea and everything. If you search for
your company on Chegg P T, if you see a
(25:12):
lot of in internal information, you should know
that your employees using CHTPD to talk about
everything internal, you know, with the internal secrets. So
those things can be a problem in the very near future
business wise. Personally, the same thing.
Chegg PPT knows your shortcomings. It knows you better than your
(25:35):
mom in the daily life. So if you ask about
me, I don't know what kind of information, it's
gonna give you. There is nothing in
between right now. Those kind of things are scaring me a little.
Five years from now, road. What is the road you traveled?
You know, I grew up in Istanbul, and it has a bridge
(25:57):
connecting Europe and Asia. And I always feel that it
has it is my in my DNA too. I would love to grow to
be taking that part in the business life,
helping American companies to go growth, go
global, and expand the new, you know, markets.
And same thing from Middle East to,
(26:20):
US. That's my dream. Because I know a lot of
great entrepreneurs, perfect products in India,
in in Turkey, in Italy, and they don't know their way.
So I would love to find them and help them. And same thing
here, Middle East growing so fast, and they're getting
richer and richer in some part of the world. And The US
(26:42):
is, you know, we we are taking a lot of flow in some
businesses, and I would love to help them to
use that opportunity too. I would love to be a bridge
between those countries. I have to imagine that
you're asked to either be a mentor for a lot of people or speak
to a lot of entrepreneurs. So someone listening with a dream or an
(27:04):
idea, what's the first step they should be taking
to seeing if they're capable of going beyond that dream
and actually turning it into reality. When I talk to in
entrepreneurs and they have a great idea and they are falling in love
with their idea, and I the first question I ask them, who is your
competitors? And most of whom says, I don't have a competitor.
(27:28):
That's so dangerous. In this world, there is nothing
that you can you don't have a competitor. Every everybody sells
everything. Everybody has those services that you think about.
So research is first thing, Toni, I believe. You
need to research. You need to validate that
idea to you. You need to know your game who
(27:51):
are playing with. Competitors are so important.
And then, you can ask that question to yourself,
why audience will choose your product other
than other brands or companies? What
do you do better? What problem you're solving
better? And the third, don't build a
(28:13):
brand or company for yourself. Know your audience
like you know your sister. Where do they hang out?
You know? How much did they pay for service or
products? And what is the frequency?
Know them and build something for them.
I sold crazy, ugly
(28:35):
lightings, so I couldn't believe myself. It was
like a ping and diamonds and stuff. And when I
saw the product first and I said, oh, no. I can't sell this. This
who's gonna buy pink lighting in the living room?
And that was our best seller products for years. And then I
learned that I'm not selling it to myself or or my my
(28:59):
friends. I'm selling the audience who who's searching for that, and
the number is good. How do you manage work life balance? Because you strike
me as someone that your eyes are continued to shine. You're
so excited about road. You wanna build this bridge to the world.
How do you manage to do it all? I finally
accepted, from my family and friends as as I am.
(29:22):
So, that's the key thing. I'm learning.
I'm improving myself. I'm spending so much time to get
better in the personal life too. I'm not the still not the
perfect person to talk about it, the life balance, but I
think I built a life around business. And I my
friends are from from my business, my colleagues, and
(29:44):
my family knows that I love creating brands. And I
have a 10 years old, and we talk about, you know, the new stuff.
Many, many years ago, it was a problem. My family,
my friends, they I I couldn't do a chitchat, And I
was a workaholic. And I took a step back and I
said, you know what? You can still keep that personality, but you can
(30:07):
improve it a little bit. Now I have hours, and I
start very early, and I finish around
05:30 and six. And I used to think if
I work at night and over the weekend, I was like,
you know, I'm on track. I'm doing right thing. No. I found out
that it is a mistake. Now I say to myself,
(30:29):
you're missing something. Your 10 year old daughter or son?
Son. Does it bring it back to the dining room table when you were 10
doing brand names for your dad? Is it very similar? Yes. Very
similar. Is your dad still with you? Yes. He is. And what does he think
about all of this? It is a great memory for us, and he he told
me that my father always said that this is the next generation he's
(30:51):
coming up. He's really into it. And then I created a brand for him.
We found a product for him. He's you know, he wants to launch his
own online shop. He loves it. So he's just like
me. Your son's getting an education just being at that
dinner table. What do we need to do within our school systems
to have kids believe that their destiny can be a
(31:13):
matter of choice, not chance? We are raising kids to memorize,
not to leave. And I don't understand why we
are not teaching the problems when we start
facing when we get an adult to our kids at
school. Eating healthy, growing food,
relationship issues. Right? We spend a lot of time when we grow when we get
(31:36):
adults. We don't have any idea being a mother
or father or being a wife and husband.
Why we are not teaching that at school? I don't get it. Same
thing, you know, we can teach our kids to be
an entrepreneur or go to corporate life. We can tell them
the cons and pros when they're young, and they can try. They
(31:58):
have time. They can try to build something. And if they're they're good at
it, they can try more or corporate life too.
I don't understand why our, school system anywhere
in the world is like that. Why we are not teaching life?
No, Bachak, I always end my shows with my three takeaways
and this one's tough because you've offered so much. But the first one is
(32:22):
the entrepreneur that says I don't have a competitor. And you not
only push back, but you personalize it by the sayings. You need to know
your consumer like you know your sister. You need to understand how they
think, how they feel, how they act. I think it's just a
beautiful life lesson for people to go, I have such an idea that nobody
saw it about. It's it's not that you're trying to destroy their dream, you're just
(32:44):
trying to make a level of being pragmatic within their dream.
The second one is, I always say leaders are head, their heart, their hands.
Sometimes they're more than one. There's no question you have the analytics and
the sales and the biased reaction, but your heart is
magical. And I love what you said. Business is personal to me.
And you said things like every brand has to have a soul.
(33:07):
And I think that in this world of transactions
transform others. And the last one, which is just came out of literally the final
minutes of our conversation is, the last one, which has just came out of literally
the final minutes of our conversation is this whole concept of education is why are
(33:27):
we teaching people to memorize and not lead? Why are we
teaching people to do multiple choice questions
versus understand the meaning of life and how to connect and
collaborate and create and think. Putting a textbook in front of a kid that's
grown up with gamification and a leaderboard and
trying to get to the end as fast as they can and then
(33:49):
bringing this linear educational system is torture. It's putting
kids in prison, and no wonder there are many of them deciding to drop out.
Powerful advice from you. I can't wait to see the road you're gonna
travel with road in the next five or ten years, and I
hope that brings you to Canada as well. I know America's important to
you, but boy, could Canada ever need someone like you to help these
(34:12):
entrepreneurs find new markets. So if you wanna come to Canada,
please come up. We've gotta bring your husband, your son. We've got a beautiful guest
suite. We can spend a weekend. You'll meet my wonderful wife, and we'll
talk about how the magic of Bishak Dolan can also
happen in Canada, because, I I would welcome you with open
arms. Thank you. Thank you so much. I would love to do that.
(34:35):
Once again, a special thanks to RBC for supporting Chatter That Matters.
It's Tony Chapman. Thanks for listening, and let's chat soon.
In this world, there is nothing that you don't have a
competitor. You need to know your game.
What if your first lesson in entrepreneurship came
not from a business school, but watching your dad, his sleeves rolled
up, building something from nothing? The year was
1970, and the country was Turkey. I saw him
(00:24):
build so many different ideas from scratch. And what
if instead of just admiring this fire he lit, you chose to
carry his torch across oceans, across industries, and
that torch blazed your own trail. This episode isn't about
following a playbook, it's about rewriting one. My guest today
is Bashar Gilan. She grew up in the shadow of creation, the kind that doesn't
(00:46):
ask for permission, only possibility. Her father was
an entrepreneur in a time and place that made risk feel like rebellion,
but he planted something deeper than ambitionaire. He planted belief.
It wasn't easy. It wasn't that difficult, but the competition was so
high. As she took that belief, she boarded a plane and began building
a new soil with old roots. She didn't climb the corporate
(01:09):
ladder. She walked away from it. I always jump into the new thing. We
need to discover. We need to find. We need to get
used to it. She launched her first company in 2010,
and like any real founder story, it wasn't a perfectly paced
speedway. Wasn't all wins and venture rounds. There were moments where the money
was gone, the pressure was crushing, and no one was coming to save
(01:31):
her. I didn't know what to do. I thought that it was
it was done. But she stayed in the game. She learned, she built,
she found a way to build again, she exited and she started again. And
today, she's the founder of Road, a company that doesn't just
consult, it co builds. It's an external cofounder model that goes deep
where others stay surface. Business is personal to me. It
(01:54):
is. We are all human, and we have feelings.
Most of the time, we're missing that part. She's not launching campaigns.
She's now using her torch to relay the entrepreneurial spark in
others, helping founders find their soul and scale their story. This
isn't a conversation about business, about belief, about resilience. It's about a
woman who took her father's fire and made it her own and now passes a
(02:16):
flame forward. Today, we're gonna dive in the friction she faced, the
fuel that kept her going, and what she wants the next generation of founders to
know, how and where the spark began.
Hi. It's Tony Chapman. Thank you for listening to Chatter That Matters presented
by RBC. If you can, please subscribe to the podcast.
And ratings, reviews, well, they're always welcome, and they're always
(02:40):
appreciated.
Pishak, welcome to A Chatter That Matters. Thank you so much, Tony. Thank
you for having me. So I gave a a real nod to your dad at
the beginning. So maybe you could just take us back to that time where you
were watching him as an entrepreneur, and like I think a
lot of kids that have parents as entrepreneurs, you saw both fear and
(03:02):
fearless, I imagine, in his eyes. I was surrounded with new
ideas and new, you know, new brands and new companies
since when I was eight or seven. I saw him
build so many different ideas from scratch.
I never were worried about, you know, not
becoming a successful company. He was just following
(03:25):
his dreams, and he was trying everything. So that's what I learned
from him, and he included in the steps with me
as well. So when I was 10, I was thinking
about a brand name. I was thinking about the pricing strategy and
everything. It was it was awesome. And what about your mom?
Because there's a lot of times with an entrepreneur, you don't necessarily
(03:47):
feel security of someone knowing that they're gonna get a guaranteed check every week.
How was she in terms of supporting these dreams and ambitions?
My father wasn't an entrepreneur. He was like a crazy
person with the, you know, different ideas. My mom wasn't
really happy, at the beginning. She always want him
to get a, you know, the regular corporate job.
(04:10):
But along the way, she she supported him. I don't think
she had another another idea another chance, Tony. You
know? She had to. And when you look at yourself, the the sort of
DNA that roars between your mom and your dad, how would you best
describe your appetite for risk and your appetite for security? I
got that entrepreneurial soul from my father.
(04:34):
I got some risk analyzing from my mom.
So I have a kind of a balance. I analyze first.
That's why I'm a I'm a strategist, I believe. I look at the
numbers before taking an action, and then I dive
in. And when you think about the lessons in life that you
still carry with you, you know, I can think of some that my mom taught
(04:56):
me, my dad taught me. Is there anyone that stands out? Did you go,
anytime I'm feeling that I'm standing on shifting sand or I'm
feeling insecure, this is something I think about? It's
not easy. And I believe that you need to know,
what kind of a type of a person in business
life. Maybe you're not an entrepreneur and,
(05:18):
you know, the entrepreneurship is so fancy and everybody's talking about
it. Maybe you will be better in the corporate life, Tony. So
you need to know that. I have a very short of,
corporate life too. I could have fit in, and I
decided this is it. This is my way, and I know it's not
easy. And I am the responsible with everything,
(05:40):
and I'm the only one. No one wanna come and help me.
So when you think that way, when you accept it, I think it's a
little bit easier. So what gave you the courage to do it? Because, you know,
you're talking earlier about assessing risk before you make the
move, but you had a pretty good corporate you knew you
could go places with it, but you decided to jump off and be your own
(06:02):
boss at an early age. Believe me, I I tried.
I tried to fit in the corporate life. The corporate world
felt too slow, and the layer of, you know,
acceptance and approval process were killing
me. I couldn't fit in. I was the only one in the meeting,
at the meeting saying and asking and questioning and, you know,
(06:24):
the managers and directors and thinking about out of
the box, which they don't want you to do that. They just want you
to do the, you know, the job. So 2010, your first start up, and
it's facing significant challenges. I mean, that was after the big
global economic meltdown. And you talked about in one
of your, interviews that I listened to how dire it was when the money
(06:47):
was running out. Take us through that point in your life
because to me, very often is when you are at your worst
and you fight your way through is often what you remember the most
fondly later in life. That was really tough. I was
lucky though. I got the investment in the beginning from my
my boss. So it was easy. It wasn't that difficult,
(07:10):
but the competition was so high. And I remember,
one day, I went to the office, and I had a team of, like,
fifty fifty great people, And I couldn't see half of
them because, my competitor hired them and then
they offered tripled up their salaries and they they left in a
couple of minutes. After that, I just found out in couple of hours, all
(07:32):
my vendors were out of stock because my competitor
purchased all the stocks that I was selling as well.
That day, I didn't know what to do. I didn't know what to
say to my my master, and there was no money, no
team, you know, no products to sell in couple of
couple of days. I thought that it was it was done.
(07:56):
And I remember one person, I never forget
her. That was a home and decoration brand. And I met her at home and
decoration fair. And she came to me and she said, you know what?
I see that passion in your eyes. You're just just like me. I was just
like you when I was younger. And if something happened bad to you or, you
know, struggle so much, call me. I called
(08:17):
her, and she helped me a lot. She was a
vendor, and she gave all her his her product to me for you
know, without me paying first, like a consignment.
And I start running my business, and I made the
competitor out of the business in couple of months. I didn't
give up. I just allow myself to be set in couple of
(08:40):
days or hours, and I search for the different, you know,
solutions, and I was lucky to find one. What advice
can you give to people to be open to
strangers? I call them Yodas, the fairy godmothers of the
world that that somehow appear in your life at times to just
be open minded enough to know that that meeting could change your life
(09:03):
one day. You need to find your
hero. And if you're in a business, if you're in a family, if you're
in an entrepreneur, you know, building a relationship
is must, is so important. Because we
got into business, we hustle a lot, we're, you know, taking care of
the daily task and everything, but we have to make
(09:25):
connections. Those connections are saving your life
sometimes, saving your business, and you don't even know. I try to
do the same. If I see someone, I say the
same thing to them, and I, you know, give my, you know, phone number,
my contact information. I told them that, you know what? I've been through.
If if you need anything, I'm here. And I have been
(09:47):
mentoring, and I'm getting mentorship. I'm meeting peep people,
sharing my ideas, calling them in, you know, the good
days and bad days, checking on them is so
important. You don't know. For example, for for now,
we don't know. I may be really helpful for you one
day or you will be helpful for me one day. So this is a
(10:09):
great feeling. I'm trying to build it in two ways.
I think today, we're so absorbed with our screens and
what we believe are connections, but it really is face to face. As
you said, somebody saw the passion in your eyes. I can feel the
soul in your heart. What advice do you give to young people nowadays
to say that life happens beyond the screen?
(10:31):
It happens in the real world. It happens in coffee shops, walking through a trade
show, talking to somebody about an idea that it's so important to
have that human to human connection. Business is personal to
me. It is. We are all human, and we have
feelings. And we, most of the time, we're missing that
part. When we are having a meeting, either if you're an
(10:53):
agency and you're meeting with your new potential client,
We just talk about, what we do and then how we do it
and stuff. But I always try to stop and
understand, try to empathize what what are
they worried about. What is the fear
that they are stopping themselves to move forward?
(11:16):
If you think that way, you're starting to building a
trust, and you are letting them know that you've been
through or you understand them very well. As
a team, you're starting a creative plan
together. And if we are not right people
for each other, at the end of the meeting, I say, you know
(11:38):
what? This is very important. We met. And now we
know each other and what we do. Maybe it's not the time, but you
know me. If if I can help you with any way, you don't have to
work with me. We're gonna talk about roads because I'm fascinated by it. But
you've had two very successful ecommerce
businesses and exited from both. Just share with the
(12:00):
audience a little bit about those businesses
and what it meant to start them and what maybe it meant to sell them
and move on to another one. Because I very often, entrepreneurs never wanna let
go of their baby. But you seem to be have found this path that says
once this is done, I need to go somewhere else. The first one, it was
in 02/2010, home and decoration brand, and the ecommerce,
(12:23):
corporate in Turkey in Istanbul. And I went
to university in London, and I my first job was in US, and I went
back to Turkey to found that, corporate. So there
was an opportunity for luxury
session, and nobody was selling huge furniture like
bedrooms, the living rooms in a
(12:44):
luxury segment. And I saw that opportunity, and everybody
was thinking that I was, like, too you know, it's too difficult to do
it, but I wanted to try. I start building
the website. I hired one software developer, and I created one of
my room to a office. And I was, consulting at the
same time during the day to make money and then coming back home and
(13:07):
creating the creating my dream. That was kinda
easy for me to create things because I see it and I know
it. But along the way, when I started talking to
vendors and I understood that I am nobody to them, it
doesn't matter how much money that I'm willing to pay to buy the
product and sell it. They didn't wanna give the product to
(13:29):
me. They didn't believe it. And I was, like, stuck on that process.
I was thinking what to do, and I got a call from my, previous
boss, and she wanted me hire me again, for her next
job. And I went there to have a coffee with her, and I talked
about my project so passionately. And she at the end
of the coffee conversation, she offered me
(13:52):
investment. And I got the first investment. I got her
name behind my back, and I went back to vendors, and I
started that way. I managed that first company
for, like, four years. Doing business in Turkey
was so difficult, and I, realized that
I studied abroad. My first year was in US, and I didn't
(14:14):
really know how to deal with it. But I wanted to make it
really successful. When I get that point, I
knew that I couldn't carry it more. I sold my share, and I moved back
to New York. And I cofounded the second one. It was
small version of it. I just sold functional
furniture, not like a old home and decoration, and it got
(14:36):
so successful in, like, eight eight months because I
knew it. I was coming from a very tough market, and US
market was easier for me. I had a chance
to exit again, and I did it. Did you ever feel in that being a
woman either in Turkey or New York that you had different
obstacles or obstacles that were really placed in front of you because
(14:58):
the bias was, you know, you're a woman not a man.
Definitely. Especially in Turkey, especially in home and
decoration furniture industry, I couldn't get
that respect in the beginning. They were like, no. And
they didn't wanna work with me because, I was I don't know which one was,
the problem, being a young or being a young woman. And,
(15:20):
also, you need to build a relationship with
founders and the the brand owners to
deal with that. That's the style in Turkey, a little bit emotional. And
as a woman and man, we couldn't do that very well. But if I was
a man, I would have like, hey hey, buddy. Do you wanna do you wanna
hang out tonight, and do you wanna drink something? And then I could've I could've
(15:43):
build a little bit more deep relationship. I tried to,
hire right people to do that, but it wasn't enough.
So how I deal with that? With money, I
use the money power to purchase a little bit
more to cover that area. And when I moved to
US, I never felt that, you know, as a being a
(16:05):
woman entrepreneur was a problem, but we being
not being an American was a problem here. We tend
to close our minds to what we feel are not like minded.
And yet to me, so much and, you know, Canada where I'm from,
there's so many people that are questioning immigration. And I'm saying, you know, if we
let immigrants come here that have fought their way to our country,
(16:27):
that have resilience and courage and open the doors to them and
unlock opportunity, it's a gift for both.
And that's what I wanna talk to you now about road because to me, you
really are trying to help almost to how that woman helped you. You're trying
to help a lot of people succeed. You're trying to help them
light that path. So tell me a little bit about how Road came about,
(16:50):
and I'd love to just share some stories about why you feel this is your
calling. I found a role on my experience as a as
a founder. Finding a right company, right
agency was so difficult, and some of them were doing some
job and the other one was doing the other part. And also,
when you grow, you need to hire a manager to deal with your
(17:12):
agencies. One of them is a creative agency. The other one is digital marketing. The
other one is, like, you know, the, running the operation helping
you. So it was so difficult. So I wanted to work
international companies to grow in US market
or startups to build something from scratch. As an
agency, as a service provider, I wanted to act like their cofounder.
(17:35):
I know how to execute. I know what challenge they're gonna, you know, face.
And I've been, through this, and I can help with my professional
team. So that's, role became,
and I founded in Newark after those two exit, and I have been
working with, you know, companies from Europe,
Middle East to help them grow in US market, and I do the opposite.
(17:58):
I work with American companies to help them to grow in in that those areas
as well. Because I know I know how business works.
I know how, audience purchase products.
I am so thrilled. I'm so happy. And we work with
our clients for seven years, eight years, and they
allow me to act like they're cofounders too. We talked about
(18:21):
everything. If I don't know something, I tell them, I'm not acting
like a, you know, cool agency owner. I say, I don't
know the way. We haven't done it before, but let me try and let me
find it. And I find the solution and we discuss together and I take an
action with my team. So it was a perfect business
model for my soul, and I I love doing it. You
(18:42):
know, you talk about from your soul, but one of the things I love is
a quote you said in an interview that branding is about
crafting and keeping clear, compelling promises, and that a
business has to have a soul. Talk to me about that. My whole philosophy
in life has been head, heart, and hands. If a great brand, I get it.
Most importantly, I feel it, and then it's easy for me to buy it because
(19:03):
I feel it. So talk to me about your philosophy about soul.
Creating a brand is not finding a name, not even a
product or service that you're selling. It is a promise
that you're giving to your audience. If you think about the brands that
you like, you know what you're gonna find there.
Right? When you go to their shop or online shop, you know
(19:26):
H and M, for example. If you wanna go to H and M, you know
you're gonna find the trendy products in a cheaper,
you know, version and way. So this is H and M's
promise to you. When you're building, brands,
you need to think. You need to put your soul in it, and you need
to promise your audience, and you need to reflect that
(19:48):
to everything, with your name, with your messages, with your
color, with your, you know, decoration of your shop and everything.
And it is very emotional. If you cannot keep your
promises, this means you won't be able to build
a correct brand. Empathy, putting
your soul, creating your brand DNA to me.
(20:11):
Do you ever get pushback when you're dealing with a male entrepreneur
that says, that's all soft and interesting, but let's really
focus on how we're gonna drive more sales? I do. But
I'm mixed. In the beginning of the the process of creating
a brand, I'm very, you know, I'm using that female energy
and, you know, putting the trying to put the soul and everything. After
(20:33):
that phase, I switched to male energy, and I'm
just talking about sales and, you know, the profits,
how many different marketplaces we can be in. So I'm
kinda mixed, and I think that's the right thing to do. Because if
you're just talking about promises and stuff and
not doing anything or not taking care of the financial
(20:55):
part, it will die too. But in the beginning, my
message is clear. When you're clearing your minds what
you're doing, the other step gets so easy. You know,
your role, even though you position yourself sort of as a cofounder, it's a
role of influence versus authority. The people with authority are the
people that founded the company, potentially the investors behind the
(21:17):
company. How do you win them over with your ideas
and your sense of direction? What's your strategy? Because
there's a lot of people out there that are in a in a position where
they really only get to influence an outcome. They don't get to control it.
Idea is important, but it's not the business. So it
is a starting point. Execution is so important and
(21:41):
also financial. I think I start with financials.
This is the idea. This is the execution plan, but
those are the numbers. I always be honest with them and I
say, this is the expecting revenue,
but please think 20% less. And this
is the plan for, you know, expense. Please think
(22:03):
20% more because that's the reality.
Financially, you need to prove. You need to
validate the idea. Otherwise, you're a
great genius, with great ideas. You don't have an
execution plan. You don't have financial to support that,
and you are not honest to yourself, and you're not gonna
(22:25):
honest to your investor or your team or your
audience. So When we return,
I picked Bishak's brain about the inclusion of AI in today's
world. We also discussed education and where
she hopes her sense of soul will spread next.
(22:49):
Hi. It's Tony Chapman, host of Chatter That Matters presented by
RBC. RBC provides small business owners with resources that
go beyond banking. Resources that help them attract new customers,
build strong employee teams, and manage their money. To get
access to these services, go to rbc.com/beyondbanking.
Small businesses matter to RBC.
(23:21):
Competition is tough in every industry. It's very
difficult. If you wanna go global, it doesn't matter if you're in a
European company and wanna do business in US or or vice
versa. You need to think locally and act globally. That's
really tough. Today, my special guest is Beshak
Ghislain, a true entrepreneur with vision,
(23:42):
resilience, ability to dream and do. What
she does, she bridges the world between buyers and sellers.
Another article that you were in, you mentioned the fact
that AI, artificial intelligence, is
something we all have to embrace, but at the same time, something that
(24:04):
is creating a real concern with you. It is. And,
also, I have been doing this business for twenty five years. When I
started, there wasn't any social media, nothing. And I always jump
into the new thing. We need to discover. We need to find. We need
to get used to it. If there's something
dangerous, we need to keep our companies away from it.
(24:26):
AI is a similar thing. At the moment, I'm happy. We
are using AI to help us, not switching
our employees or not switching our, role
in the company. It's kind of a smart helper
to move a little bit faster, easier.
But in the future, I'm worried in some part
(24:49):
because security is so important. We are telling
everything. Simply, let me give you an example, ChetGPT. We
are asking a lot of question. We are sharing our personal talk. We are
sharing our business, information to get an
idea and everything. If you search for
your company on Chegg P T, if you see a
(25:12):
lot of in internal information, you should know
that your employees using CHTPD to talk about
everything internal, you know, with the internal secrets. So
those things can be a problem in the very near future
business wise. Personally, the same thing.
Chegg PPT knows your shortcomings. It knows you better than your
(25:35):
mom in the daily life. So if you ask about
me, I don't know what kind of information, it's
gonna give you. There is nothing in
between right now. Those kind of things are scaring me a little.
Five years from now, road. What is the road you traveled?
You know, I grew up in Istanbul, and it has a bridge
(25:57):
connecting Europe and Asia. And I always feel that it
has it is my in my DNA too. I would love to grow to
be taking that part in the business life,
helping American companies to go growth, go
global, and expand the new, you know, markets.
And same thing from Middle East to,
(26:20):
US. That's my dream. Because I know a lot of
great entrepreneurs, perfect products in India,
in in Turkey, in Italy, and they don't know their way.
So I would love to find them and help them. And same thing
here, Middle East growing so fast, and they're getting
richer and richer in some part of the world. And The US
(26:42):
is, you know, we we are taking a lot of flow in some
businesses, and I would love to help them to
use that opportunity too. I would love to be a bridge
between those countries. I have to imagine that
you're asked to either be a mentor for a lot of people or speak
to a lot of entrepreneurs. So someone listening with a dream or an
(27:04):
idea, what's the first step they should be taking
to seeing if they're capable of going beyond that dream
and actually turning it into reality. When I talk to in
entrepreneurs and they have a great idea and they are falling in love
with their idea, and I the first question I ask them, who is your
competitors? And most of whom says, I don't have a competitor.
(27:28):
That's so dangerous. In this world, there is nothing
that you can you don't have a competitor. Every everybody sells
everything. Everybody has those services that you think about.
So research is first thing, Toni, I believe. You
need to research. You need to validate that
idea to you. You need to know your game who
(27:51):
are playing with. Competitors are so important.
And then, you can ask that question to yourself,
why audience will choose your product other
than other brands or companies? What
do you do better? What problem you're solving
better? And the third, don't build a
(28:13):
brand or company for yourself. Know your audience
like you know your sister. Where do they hang out?
You know? How much did they pay for service or
products? And what is the frequency?
Know them and build something for them.
I sold crazy, ugly
(28:35):
lightings, so I couldn't believe myself. It was
like a ping and diamonds and stuff. And when I
saw the product first and I said, oh, no. I can't sell this. This
who's gonna buy pink lighting in the living room?
And that was our best seller products for years. And then I
learned that I'm not selling it to myself or or my my
(28:59):
friends. I'm selling the audience who who's searching for that, and
the number is good. How do you manage work life balance? Because you strike
me as someone that your eyes are continued to shine. You're
so excited about road. You wanna build this bridge to the world.
How do you manage to do it all? I finally
accepted, from my family and friends as as I am.
(29:22):
So, that's the key thing. I'm learning.
I'm improving myself. I'm spending so much time to get
better in the personal life too. I'm not the still not the
perfect person to talk about it, the life balance, but I
think I built a life around business. And I my
friends are from from my business, my colleagues, and
(29:44):
my family knows that I love creating brands. And I
have a 10 years old, and we talk about, you know, the new stuff.
Many, many years ago, it was a problem. My family,
my friends, they I I couldn't do a chitchat, And I
was a workaholic. And I took a step back and I
said, you know what? You can still keep that personality, but you can
(30:07):
improve it a little bit. Now I have hours, and I
start very early, and I finish around
05:30 and six. And I used to think if
I work at night and over the weekend, I was like,
you know, I'm on track. I'm doing right thing. No. I found out
that it is a mistake. Now I say to myself,
(30:29):
you're missing something. Your 10 year old daughter or son?
Son. Does it bring it back to the dining room table when you were 10
doing brand names for your dad? Is it very similar? Yes. Very
similar. Is your dad still with you? Yes. He is. And what does he think
about all of this? It is a great memory for us, and he he told
me that my father always said that this is the next generation he's
(30:51):
coming up. He's really into it. And then I created a brand for him.
We found a product for him. He's you know, he wants to launch his
own online shop. He loves it. So he's just like
me. Your son's getting an education just being at that
dinner table. What do we need to do within our school systems
to have kids believe that their destiny can be a
(31:13):
matter of choice, not chance? We are raising kids to memorize,
not to leave. And I don't understand why we
are not teaching the problems when we start
facing when we get an adult to our kids at
school. Eating healthy, growing food,
relationship issues. Right? We spend a lot of time when we grow when we get
(31:36):
adults. We don't have any idea being a mother
or father or being a wife and husband.
Why we are not teaching that at school? I don't get it. Same
thing, you know, we can teach our kids to be
an entrepreneur or go to corporate life. We can tell them
the cons and pros when they're young, and they can try. They
(31:58):
have time. They can try to build something. And if they're they're good at
it, they can try more or corporate life too.
I don't understand why our, school system anywhere
in the world is like that. Why we are not teaching life?
No, Bachak, I always end my shows with my three takeaways
and this one's tough because you've offered so much. But the first one is
(32:22):
the entrepreneur that says I don't have a competitor. And you not
only push back, but you personalize it by the sayings. You need to know
your consumer like you know your sister. You need to understand how they
think, how they feel, how they act. I think it's just a
beautiful life lesson for people to go, I have such an idea that nobody
saw it about. It's it's not that you're trying to destroy their dream, you're just
(32:44):
trying to make a level of being pragmatic within their dream.
The second one is, I always say leaders are head, their heart, their hands.
Sometimes they're more than one. There's no question you have the analytics and
the sales and the biased reaction, but your heart is
magical. And I love what you said. Business is personal to me.
And you said things like every brand has to have a soul.
(33:07):
And I think that in this world of transactions
transform others. And the last one, which is just came out of literally the final
minutes of our conversation is, the last one, which has just came out of literally
the final minutes of our conversation is this whole concept of education is why are
(33:27):
we teaching people to memorize and not lead? Why are we
teaching people to do multiple choice questions
versus understand the meaning of life and how to connect and
collaborate and create and think. Putting a textbook in front of a kid that's
grown up with gamification and a leaderboard and
trying to get to the end as fast as they can and then
(33:49):
bringing this linear educational system is torture. It's putting
kids in prison, and no wonder there are many of them deciding to drop out.
Powerful advice from you. I can't wait to see the road you're gonna
travel with road in the next five or ten years, and I
hope that brings you to Canada as well. I know America's important to
you, but boy, could Canada ever need someone like you to help these
(34:12):
entrepreneurs find new markets. So if you wanna come to Canada,
please come up. We've gotta bring your husband, your son. We've got a beautiful guest
suite. We can spend a weekend. You'll meet my wonderful wife, and we'll
talk about how the magic of Bishak Dolan can also
happen in Canada, because, I I would welcome you with open
arms. Thank you. Thank you so much. I would love to do that.
(34:35):
Once again, a special thanks to RBC for supporting Chatter That Matters.
It's Tony Chapman. Thanks for listening, and let's chat soon.
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